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View Full Version : I hope PSO2 doesn't have the synthing BS.



Scyris
Jun 11, 2011, 08:50 PM
I am kinda worried about pso2 having the synthing BS from psu in it, now I did like having the lolibot to take into a party but yeah, it sucked finding a rare board only for it to have 20% chance to work.

Nitro Vordex
Jun 11, 2011, 08:53 PM
Been over it.

Short answer: Agreed.

Long answer: Make it not suck and I might want it in there. Make the boards rare, but make them have 100% success rate.

Shinji Kazuya
Jun 11, 2011, 09:18 PM
Do not want! But it would be fine if it worked like Nitro said.

ARASHIKAGE
Jun 11, 2011, 10:37 PM
Been over it.

Short answer: Agreed.

Long answer: Make it not suck and I might want it in there. Make the boards rare, but make them have 100% success rate.

Agreed thrice,
You can read countless threads on this site were we go on and on about how failing a weapon sucks. Most of the time that percent (if not 100%) only means you have a chance to fail. Many of us have failed Psycho Wands and Agito Repcas at 99% and have claimed it to be the worse day in gaming history.

Synthing weapons/armor with a chance to fail is not fun for anyone, but I wouldn't be apposed to % synthing on other items, such as room decorations.

str898mustang
Jun 11, 2011, 11:58 PM
I hope it does

BIG OLAF
Jun 12, 2011, 12:31 AM
Synthing items has already been confirmed in PSO2. In fact, it was one of the first things SEGA even said about it. But, apparently, they've reworked the entire system. So, we'll see how it goes this time around.

Seth Astra
Jun 12, 2011, 12:42 AM
Been over it.

Short answer: Agreed.

Long answer: Make it not suck and I might want it in there. Make the boards rare, but make them have 100% success rate.
As with many others, I quote because this is pretty much my answer.

NoiseHERO
Jun 12, 2011, 02:05 AM
Synthing items has already been confirmed in PSO2. In fact, it was one of the first things SEGA even said about it. But, apparently, they've reworked the entire system. So, we'll see how it goes this time around.

and I quote this... because I forgot about it.

But remembering it now, LOL, hope it's not as messed up as PSU's 99% = 50% garbage...

Tetsaru
Jun 12, 2011, 03:29 AM
I also agree that PSU's synthing system was garbage and would like to see an actual GOOD system implemented. Here's my ideas:


Weapons could drop pre-made as usual, but in some instances (such as a quest reward or a rare drop), you could find a synthesis recipe for an item. Unlike PSU's boards, a recipe would be permanently added to a list associated with your character, and you would be able to synth the item as many times as you wanted, provided you had the materials to make it, and you were the proper skill level.


Materials for making items could be found as normal drops like in PSU, but there could be certain areas (such as mines, quarries, etc.) relatively free of monsters where you could specifically search and gather materials by mining, cutting down trees, etc. This could be done in a mini-game and/or leveling style (perhaps something like the Underground in 4th-gen Pokemon). It would be totally optional, but beneficial for those who wanted to make their own customized weapons. People could also choose to buy or sell such materials in NPC and/or player markets, albeit probably at a high price. Gathering items in this manner would give players something else to do other than just mindlessly beating the shit out of monsters all the time. (I'll probably catch a lot of flak for this idea, but I still think it'd be cool.)


After gaining a recipe and the required materials needed to make an item, a player would need to begin synthing. Because I'm a firm believer that lower-level characters shouldn't have access to the best items in the game immediately and should have to EARN them, synthing would have a skill level associated with it. Basically, the more you synth, the better you get at it. Certain item recipes would have a certain level associated with them: a basic C-rank saber would be a Lv. 1 recipe, but something like a Dark Flow would require Lv. 100. One could also possibly specialize in certain weapon types; one player might be good at making melee weapons, while another would be good at making guns (if they bring back Section ID's, perhaps they could tie this aspect in with them - Redria is better at synthing swords, etc.).


Just because PSU's synthing was so annoying, once you have the required synthing level to make an item, the item cannot break when you attempt to make it. On the other hand, perhaps one could attempt a higher-level synth and get more skill points if it's successful, but they would run the risk of breaking it or turning it into something completely different, like in PSU. The difference would simply be that, instead of a random number generator and bullshit luck determining the outcome, your own level would, so people who wanted to play it safe would know whether or not to do so, and people who are willing to take a risk could also do so.


Depending on your synthing level, the recipe's recommended level, and the items you have, the same item may end up with different quality levels. For example, if you were synth level 10, and you made a level 5 weapon, that weapon would most likely be normal quality. If you were synth level 20, however, that same weapon might have boosted stats on it without even having to grind it (meaning even higher stats once it reaches its max grind compared to another version of the same weapon). However, if you were level 10 and managed to make a level 20 weapon, that weapon might have lower stats than normal, etc., although it would give you more exp towards your synth level.


If a player's synth level is high enough above an item's recommended level, certain customization options could become available. Things such as the element, damage vs. certain enemy types, small boosts to certain stats, added special moves... even cosmetic things, such as color palettes and decals/logos. Along with the above quality differences, even though two people would have the same weapon, they will probably be radically different - sorta like how Pokemon did. In this sense, people would always be searching for the weapon that best suits their playstyle, and more trading and bazaaring would be encouraged. No longer would players hunt down a specific weapon simply for the fact that "lol it has biggar numbarz," unless there's a clear rarity difference.


Grinding could also work in a similar manner to synthing - it would have a skill level, and the more you did it, the better you'd get at it. Weapons and armor would NOT break when grinded, but depending on your level and the item's level (again, determined by the recipe), certain grinds may give radically different bonuses. On the other hand, attempting to grind an item that is out of your league might actually end up damaging it and lowering its stats instead, or simply not raising its stats by as much per grind. And like PSO, each item would have its own unique max grind value, which the recipe could tell you as well.


I know it's all wishful thinking and pipe dreams, but what do you guys think?

KingBeeb
Jun 12, 2011, 04:14 AM
Synthing items has already been confirmed in PSO2.

Really?

REALLY?

The fact that the game still uses a terrible system that totally ruined PSU and is only on PC probably means I won't buy it.

Shame.

NoiseHERO
Jun 12, 2011, 05:21 AM
It also promised us an improved system at the same time, no need to get irrational.

Niloklives
Jun 12, 2011, 05:55 AM
seriously, his only two posts have been whiny and butthurt. I say let him not buy it, we're better off.

Skye-Fox713
Jun 12, 2011, 06:06 AM
Been over it.

Short answer: Agreed.

Long answer: Make it not suck and I might want it in there. Make the boards rare, but make them have 100% success rate.

QFT..

Wayu
Jun 12, 2011, 06:34 AM
Did you even bother to read the above posts, two-post-man? It's apparently been revamped; too early to make rash decisions yet, no?

That's new to me, though, the edited synth system. Is that in the info sticky?

-Wayu

Justyn_Darkcrest
Jun 12, 2011, 07:02 AM
Did you even bother to read the above posts, two-post-man? It's apparently been revamped; too early to make rash decisions yet, no?

That's new to me, though, the edited synth system. Is that in the info sticky?

-Wayu

It should be there, it was a part of the initial teaser trailer. I believe it said Synthesis system overhauled or something to that extent.

Agreed it shouldn't be the same as PSU's, but It seems they already fixed that problem and also agreed that this has been discussed and argued over enough.

Edit: I like your idea Tetsaru. Would be a nice change and a great way to keep recapture the old fun of rare drops while keeping the game interesting later on.

RenzokukenZ
Jun 12, 2011, 07:32 AM
All the translated info from the very first teaser trailer is in the sticky.

I feel that most of that info should be taken with a grain of salt, since any or all can be removed as development goes on.

Legato Bluesummers
Jun 12, 2011, 07:33 AM
Been over it.

Short answer: Agreed.

Long answer: Make it not suck and I might want it in there. Make the boards rare, but make them have 100% success rate.

The only answer.

PSU's rare boards were never as satisfying and rewarding to find as PSO's red boxes for a reason.

•Col•
Jun 12, 2011, 11:05 AM
Dunno why people are freaking out about it... Synthing can be perfectly fine; just look at Monster Hunter.

Zyrusticae
Jun 12, 2011, 03:40 PM
Dunno why people are freaking out about it... Synthing can be perfectly fine; just look at Monster Hunter.
Knee-jerk skepticism.

Also lack of mental capacity for thought etc. :-?

Zarode
Jun 12, 2011, 03:43 PM
Dunno why people are freaking out about it... Synthing can be perfectly fine; just look at Monster Hunter.

That's because it never failed, and you didn't have a random chance to get fucked over when you wanted a high percentage. There is a reason why it succeeds in Monster Hunter.

Alnet
Jun 12, 2011, 04:36 PM
Dunno why people are freaking out about it... Synthing can be perfectly fine; just look at Monster Hunter.
Because PSO didn't have synthing, and PSU did have synthing, and as we know from experience, PSU was the antichrist of online RPGs.

I wish people would give it a break and realize that PSO2 is a brand new game, and so whatever's being carried over from the previous games is going to be changed to fit whatever new systems they're implementing.

AlexCraig
Jun 12, 2011, 05:03 PM
PSO had synthing. Just a guaranteed success synthing. If you had all the items needed and the level required to make an item, you could synth the items to make a new weapon, armor, whatever. Sange & Yasha, Dark Flow, Snow Queen are just some examples.

Zarode
Jun 12, 2011, 05:21 PM
That's a good way of putting it. I honestly wouldn't mind if synthing made a return, just with some form of balancing. How about PSO style with 100% chance, just really hard to find the materials, instead of really hard to find materials and a percent chance of failure. And a chance on success to be worse off.

Tetsaru
Jun 12, 2011, 05:35 PM
PSO had synthing. Just a guaranteed success synthing. If you had all the items needed and the level required to make an item, you could synth the items to make a new weapon, armor, whatever. Sange & Yasha, Dark Flow, Snow Queen are just some examples.

Lol, I'm sure some people are now like "PSO had synthing, WHAAAAAAAAT?"

You're right, I had forgotten about that. I guess it really got overshadowed though, seeing how pretty much everything dropped already-made, most of the items you could needed were very rare, and it was done pretty much in the same way that you grinded a weapon. That, and it was mostly either upgrading a weapon to a better form or combining two existing weapons, instead of using things like metals and photons with a board to make a weapon from scratch.

Now that I think about it, since there were level restrictions on PSO's synthing, my idea of a synthing or grinding proficiency level doesn't seem that farfetched.

Nitro Vordex
Jun 12, 2011, 08:52 PM
Dunno why people are freaking out about it... Synthing can be perfectly fine; just look at Monster Hunter.
Monster Hunter must suddenly equal PSU.

No, wait, Monster Hunter didn't suck in that regard.

RemiusTA
Jun 12, 2011, 09:15 PM
Really?

REALLY?

The fact that the game still uses a terrible system that totally ruined PSU and is only on PC probably means I won't buy it.

Shame.

It promised photon arts too...see what happened to those?

Wait on the alpha.


Monster Hunter must suddenly equal PSU.

No, wait, Monster Hunter didn't suck in that regard.MH sucked in the fact that i kill the enemy, carve him myself, but get random items. It was just tedious. Way too much grinding before i got anything useful. PSO2's needs to be an expansion of the tekker system. Instead of completely random attacks, let us synth them into the weapon. No breaking, no % chances, just find the shit and combine it.

Fuck this MMO grind model shit.

yoshiblue
Jun 12, 2011, 09:35 PM
The only problem I had with rare items was the azure rathy tail. I hear the best chance at a rare is to cap on a hunt mission. Just got to hate those swing happy people. That and the people who claim capping is too hard.

But in a way, its just like looking for a rare in PS games.

RemiusTA
Jun 12, 2011, 09:36 PM
Monster Hunter's weapon system was SO bad that i just quit halfway before i got anywhere good.

Im spoiled by PSO where you'll find 4 or 5 other weapons to have fun with while looking for your specific one.

yoshiblue
Jun 12, 2011, 09:41 PM
I beg to differ but I respect your decision.

•Col•
Jun 12, 2011, 10:14 PM
Monster Hunter's synthing is fine.... Finding the materials for the actual synth is another story.


Because PSO didn't have synthing, and PSU did have synthing, and as we know from experience, PSU was the antichrist of online RPGs.

Even though people have already given some examples... Just going to throw another one out there... Dr. Montague and the monster parts...

Alnet
Jun 12, 2011, 10:17 PM
Even though people have already given some examples... Just going to throw another one out there... Dr. Montague and the monster parts...
Nitpicking, but that one's really more like an item trade quest.

•Col•
Jun 12, 2011, 10:20 PM
Nitpicking, but that one's really more like an item trade quest.

Storyline-wise it wasn't... D:

RemiusTA
Jun 12, 2011, 10:22 PM
It technically was an item trade quest. It just was a secret one...which made it way more fun to use.


...until you made a new character. Then it was just annoying.

Scyris
Jun 13, 2011, 01:41 AM
If they must keep synthing in, Make it so created items have slightly random stats, kinda like pso, but also let the item drop naturally. I hated PSU because there was no real variations on the items. Its nice in PSO how you can find say.. a weapon, then find another with slightly higher attack or accuarcy, as well as bonus damage vs certan mob races.. I hope they keep it to mob race and not fire element etc like psu did. Bascally I hope they keep the diablo-like drop system pso had.

RemiusTA
Jun 13, 2011, 02:33 PM
There is really no reason to suspect Sega will repeat the flaws of PSU's synthesizing system. They know what was wrong with it. If they didn't, it would have been present in PSP/PSP2/PSP2i.

Ffuzzy-Logik
Jun 13, 2011, 02:35 PM
Precisely. Chances are that they will come up with a different yet equally flawed system for PSO2.

RemiusTA
Jun 13, 2011, 02:56 PM
And as long as you think that way, there's no way you can be disappointed! Right, Fuzzy?

NoiseHERO
Jun 13, 2011, 06:13 PM
Why do you guys even bother spending all this time looking forward to this game if you think it's just going to suck... @_@

BIG OLAF
Jun 13, 2011, 06:21 PM
Why do you guys even bother spending all this time looking forward to this game if you think it's just going to suck... @_@

Because being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

Niloklives
Jun 13, 2011, 06:56 PM
Pessimists are never pleasantly surprised as a true pessimist is always waiting for the other shoe to drop.

RemiusTA
Jun 13, 2011, 07:21 PM
Because being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

But you forgot about:

C. You sound like a whiny little bitch 24/7, probably have low self esteem, and outside the internet, nobody thinks you're fun to hang around as your pessimism doesn't translate very well into everyday activities.

Rationality =/= Pessimism. If the whole world was like this, we would have gotten absolutely no where. Try being rational for a change! You'll sound like a pessimist in some instances, but people will generally care about what you say more because you have better (and non-biased) backing behind it.

In context of this forum....well, it applies the same, really. Neither PSP, PSP2, nor PSP2i used PSU's shitty synthesis system. They replaced it with something else (better). Whether that was due to time constraints or just plain them knowing it was an ass system, only they can tell us. PSO2 has already been shown to be substantially different than PSO, PSU AND PSP2. It's already obvious things are changing -- why are we focusing on PSU's problems, of all games?

From a rational standpoint, you should probably focus on whatever problems lie in PSP2i. Perhaps if you apply them to a larger MMO model you'll wind up back at PSU's doorstep, but i really wouldn't be all that worried. You should also look at the flaws of other current popular MMOs...which, i will admit, doesn't make it look any less grim.

BIG OLAF
Jun 13, 2011, 07:33 PM
But you forgot about:

C. You sound like a whiny little bitch 24/7, probably have low self esteem, and outside the internet, nobody thinks you're fun to hang around as your pessimism doesn't translate very well into everyday activities.

Yes, this also sounds like me. I only crossed out the first part because I don't whine. I'm a intellectual pessimist. I don't just bitch for the sake of bitching. That's silly.

Anyway, SEGA did very well realize that PSU's synthesizing system was absolutely terrible, and that's the exact reason why they totally dropped it in the Portable games. However, I think what has happened is that they realized that a large(r) game like PSO2 will need a crafting system, such as synthesis, present in the game to extend it's longevity. However, as I stated, they know not to rehash PSU's atrocious system. Hopefully it's something new, completely from scratch.

RemiusTA
Jun 13, 2011, 07:34 PM
....Well, i wasn't pointing at anyone in particular, Olaf...




Anyway, SEGA did very well realize that PSU's synthesizing system was absolutely terrible, and that's the exact reason why they totally dropped it in the Portable games. However, I think what has happened, is that they realized that a large(r) game like PSO2 will need a crafting system, such as synthesis, present in the game to extend it's longevity. However, as I stated, they know not to rehash PSU's atrocious system. Hopefully it's something new, completely from scratch.

Yeah, thats exactly what i was getting at. They fixed it for the portable games, but since PSO2 is going to be much larger in scale, they'll have to probably have to revert to something similar to PSU's.

But like i said, i wouldn't really be worried at this point. From what i've seen, most of the shown physics engine looks to be vastly improved from PSU/PSP2i's engine, which means they probably did build it from scratch. Im pretty sure they'll be changing alot of stuff around.

BIG OLAF
Jun 13, 2011, 07:36 PM
Oh. With the way you worded it, it sounded as though it was directed at me. Oops.

Niloklives
Jun 13, 2011, 08:01 PM
He just added a third item >_>. And this is one Remius and I can agree on.

Ffuzzy-Logik
Jun 13, 2011, 09:17 PM
I am not a pessimist. A cynic, maybe. A realist for certain. But not a pessimist.

Niloklives
Jun 14, 2011, 12:09 AM
I think you need a little cynicism. Otherwise you're just naive.

RemiusTA
Jun 14, 2011, 12:43 AM
Yeah. It's hard to tell when to cap the lid on how cynical one needs to be these days.

Just don't overdo it or you'll end up like those conspiracy theorist wierdos =_=l

moorebounce
Jun 14, 2011, 02:54 AM
At the end of the day we may see Sega has learned it's lesson. All their Phantasy Star games had good and bad in them. If they make them anything like the latest portable games things should be okay.

yoshiblue
Jun 14, 2011, 03:37 AM
Yeah, with these portable games, i see a good outlook for future games.

Off Topic: I want to know what I am!

NoiseHERO
Jun 14, 2011, 03:37 AM
Yeah, with these portable games, i see a good outlook for future games.

Off Topic: I want to know what I am!

OPTIMIST??

Jinketsu
Jun 14, 2011, 05:46 AM
But you forgot about:

C.

So when did you get your Bachelor's in Psychology? :P

Niloklives
Jun 14, 2011, 12:08 PM
So when did you get your Bachelor's in Psychology? :P

That's actually something they teach you in high school psychology and again in first year psychology. You don't need a degree to know that someone who firmly believes that nothing will ever turn out ok has self esteem issues.

BIG OLAF
Jun 14, 2011, 12:27 PM
That's actually something they teach you in high school psychology and again in first year psychology. You don't need a degree to know that someone who firmly believes that nothing will ever turn out ok has self esteem issues.

Well, when you've been laughed at, called names, made fun of, and beaten up for a good chunk of your life, then yeah...you start having self-esteem issues.

Anyway:


Yeah, with these portable games, i see a good outlook for future games.

^I agree with this. However, there are certain people that would still insist on saying "phooey" to the Portable games. Which makes no sense, as PSP2/i were the best Phantasy Star games to date in terms of core gameplay.

r00tabaga
Jun 14, 2011, 12:37 PM
PSP2/i were the best Phantasy Star games to date in terms of core gameplay.

This. 100% dead on. Future looks bright. Add a little PSZ, a little PSO & a lot of PSP2/i & we'll be very happy w/PSO2.

Miyoko
Jun 14, 2011, 03:44 PM
PSP2/i were the best Phantasy Star games to date in terms of core gameplay.


I will fight you to the death on this. (Regarding PSP2 anyways, haven't play infinity, never will)

BIG OLAF
Jun 14, 2011, 03:53 PM
I will fight you to the death on this. (Regarding PSP2 anyways, haven't play infinity, never will)

Why, what would you say is better than PSP2/i? I'm quite curious to hear.

jayster
Jun 14, 2011, 03:54 PM
My only problem with synthing was the length of time to actually synth. Why it couldn't synth instantly, I may never know but it was a pain the arse. Otherwise, I don't mind it... even though I failed a decent amount of rares.

Dragwind
Jun 14, 2011, 05:20 PM
My only problem with synthing was the length of time to actually synth. Why it couldn't synth instantly, I may never know but it was a pain the arse. Otherwise, I don't mind it... even though I failed a decent amount of rares.

Kind of funny now that I think about it. I sort of saw it as something to look forward to the next day (or dread if it were to fail).

Something about the suspense made synthing some weapons well worth the wait, and others, 10x more the despair.

Nitro Vordex
Jun 14, 2011, 06:11 PM
Why do you guys even bother spending all this time looking forward to this game if you think it's just going to suck... @_@
We're looking forward to it sucking, obviously. We love punishment.

Alnet
Jun 14, 2011, 06:16 PM
Because being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!


Pessimists are never pleasantly surprised as a true pessimist is always waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Spot on for me. Always welcome to any short string of good luck, even if I don't believe it'll happen. And when it does happen, I figure I owe some bad luck time after my good luck time.

... not that I believe in "luck" to begin with, it's really more like "karma in reverse" for me. I haven't earned something good happening to me, I think, so I figure I owe time to whatever cosmic force is regulating it.

But I'm wearing out this two-page-old tangent.

PSP2/i were the best Phantasy Star games to date in terms of core gameplay.
Aside from random instakills/cheap deaths by enemies (but I must deserve it for playing a Force, since I know it's going to happen like that), I'm inclined to agree with you. It's unquestionably the most refined of all the PSU series (which in terms of its gameplay system, I believe to be above and beyond PSO).

RemiusTA
Jun 14, 2011, 06:17 PM
I will fight you to the death on this. (Regarding PSP2 anyways, haven't play infinity, never will)

I can't imagine which game you would call better than PSP2 or its expansion. PSP2 alone was most definitely the most polished of any of the games in the PSU series.

I wouldn't compare PSO and PSU/PSP2 to eachother. They dont even play alike. PSO was a much more stylized version of an action-RPG, while PSP2 pretty much is drifting into action game territory.

There are so many gameplay aspects in PSO that are not present in PSU or its offspring that i really stopped comparing the two ages ago. The fact i can play one and then play the other without feeling like im downgrading is the source of that opinion.

Miyoko
Jun 14, 2011, 07:35 PM
Why, what would you say is better than PSP2/i? I'm quite curious to hear.

Honestly? All of them. PSP2 was awful. I don't think I've ever been so disappointed with a game.

Remius is absolutely correct in terms of it being the most polished, but I'd argue that it's only the most polished in terms of being released as a fully functional, stand alone product. It was released to us, it had everything it should've, it worked as advertised, it actually felt like a complete game.

But that's about the only nice thing I can say about the game. PSP2 blew my mind, and not in a good way. The story was one of the worst I've ever seen in a video game (as far as games actually trying to have a story go), while the characters were as bad, if not worse, than the cast of Kingdom Hearts. It was also by far the most imbalanced Phantasy Star I've played (GC, BB, PSU, AotI, PSZ). Whether or not previous games have been balanced is up to debate, and even fun to talk about, even if there are examples of glaring imbalance between the games, such as Figh/Gunmaster Vs. Masterforce. Even then you'll have people arguing for masterforce... Or another example, RAcast Vs. Every other class. But in PSP2? It's just depressing. I don't think you'll find a single person who'll argue forces were balanced in any way.

I'm going to stop myself from ranting though, and just link this instead: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/969683-phantasy-star-portable-2/57131736 l2ag3 and LeiLeiMoo basicly sum up all of my major complaints about the game.

As for what was better? AotI, for sure. The core mechanics aren't even really all that different from PSP2. I mean, what're the biggest changes between the games -- dodging, Blocking, and the (completely broken) chain system. But you know what? AotI is more fun. WAY more fun. PSP2 had all these great ideas, but completely broke them with rampant imbalance. 27 weapon types and only 3 are worth using? 4 classes with a multitude of different talents and abilities, and EX traps trump them all? Dodge rolls and blocking are great, yes, but not when they become totally, completely, and literally mandatory to surviving. In Monster Hunter, the game that PSP2 is so blatently ripping off in a number of places, dodging helps, but if you miss a dodge or a block, it's going to hurt, yes, but it's not going to outright KILL you. In PSP2, this is not the case. If you're not blocking, there are a number of enemies that're going to either one-shot you, or stunlock you into insta-death. This isn't right. This is bad design. Nobody liked Megid in PSO, so why the hell did they give it to every single enemy?

PSU was more rough around the edges, sure, but the much smaller amount of imbalances within the core gameplay make it a better game. I actually had reasons to use knuckles, daggers, spears, axes, whips, twin hanguns, crossbows, rifles, lasers, shotguns, wands, staves, and t-mags, reasons other than aesthetic. In PSP2, there's nothing worth using out of spears, twin sabers, or twin handguns.

BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, READ THIS PART IF NOTHING ELSE, OR IF YOU ONLY READ HALF / A QUARTER OF WHAT I SAID: I am speaking to PSP2 ONLY, NOT TOWARDS INFINITY AT ALL. I have not played Infinity, so I cannot pass judgement on it. I can look up all the information I want, but until I have it in my own hands, I cannot form my own opinion on it. If it fixes all of the things that bugged me about PSP2, then that's great! But also too little, too late, since it doesn't look like we'll get it here anyways.

BIG OLAF
Jun 14, 2011, 07:37 PM
PSP2 was awful. I don't think I've ever been so disappointed with a game.

I don't think I ever expected to hear that from anyone. I must congratulate you on this achievement.

Niloklives
Jun 15, 2011, 12:05 AM
Well, when you've been laughed at, called names, made fun of, and beaten up for a good chunk of your life, then yeah...you start having self-esteem issues.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you here, but honestly; I went through all that too, beat up and all. you know what i started doing? Fighting back. if you worry so much about stuff that you think the world is against you and wallow in self pity you can't get anywhere. if you're going to quit, why bother others with that attitude? Point is you're better than that. Dust yourself off and just do what you can.

BIG OLAF
Jun 15, 2011, 12:14 AM
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you here, but honestly; I went through all that too, beat up and all. you know what i started doing? Fighting back. if you worry so much about stuff that you think the world is against you and wallow in self pity you can't get anywhere. if you're going to quit, why bother others with that attitude? Point is you're better than that. Dust yourself off and just do what you can.

People have different tolerances to such things. People have different coping mechanisms. People have different emotional reactions. People have different thought patterns.

Just because "getting over it" was easy for some, doesn't mean it's easy for others. I've had many people tell me much the same you have. Doesn't mean I can just flick a mental switch and make it all go away. But, I'm not getting into my sordid emotional/mental past here. That would be silly.

Niloklives
Jun 15, 2011, 12:45 AM
no one said it was easy, but if your coping mechanism is to give up and then whine when things don't go your way, you're not coping, you're just being a child. Emotions are learned and they can be unlearned. Behavior is learned and it can be unlearned. The point is the behavior you're advocating is not the path of expecting the worst, it's the path of someone who wants things handed to them.

Low self esteem and depression do not go away on their own. You have to choose to do something about them or they only get worse.

BIG OLAF
Jun 15, 2011, 12:52 AM
no one said it was easy, but if your coping mechanism is to give up and then whine when things don't go your way, you're not coping, you're just being a child. Emotions are learned and they can be unlearned. Behavior is learned and it can be unlearned. The point is the behavior you're advocating is not the path of expecting the worst, it's the path of someone who wants things handed to them.

Low self esteem and depression do not go away on their own. You have to choose to do something about them or they only get worse.

I stand by what I said:


I'm not getting into my sordid emotional/mental past here. That would be silly.

Anon_Fire
Jun 15, 2011, 01:06 AM
Are you guys afraid that the Item Synthesis system in PSO2 will be bad?

•Col•
Jun 15, 2011, 01:13 AM
Are you guys afraid that the Item Synthesis system in PSO2 will be bad?

Now that I think about it, I don't even really care... During the 4 years I played PSU, I never even synthesized a single item.......

If it's actually decent in PSO2 then I'll use it. If it's a hassle like it was in PSU I just won't even bother.

Niloklives
Jun 15, 2011, 01:38 AM
No, I'm not. /topic

Alnet
Jun 15, 2011, 06:15 AM
Are you guys afraid that the Item Synthesis system in PSO2 will be bad?
Whether it's "bad" or "good" doesn't so much matter to me. Whether or not I like it and can use it well is what it's important.

I like a lot of what people call terrible things, so "bad" doesn't mean a whole lot.

r00tabaga
Jun 15, 2011, 07:46 AM
The story was awful in pspo2 but the gameplay rocked. The additions made were great. Synthing in pso2 should be fine as long as they forget everything they did in PSU.

NoiseHERO
Jun 15, 2011, 07:55 AM
PSP2's story was awesome...! D<

THE MAIN CHARACTER WAS A MARY SUE AND THE MAIN VILLAIN WAS A SEPHIROTH CLONE AND SOMEONE DIED AT THE END!!

WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED TO MAKE A GOOD STORY?? NOOBS!

r00tabaga
Jun 15, 2011, 11:08 AM
Good point. They should do a movie spinoff. :)

blace
Jun 15, 2011, 12:42 PM
What I want to know is, how do you kill someone already dead?

RemiusTA
Jun 15, 2011, 01:35 PM
Egghh....



But that's about the only nice thing I can say about the game. PSP2 blew my mind, and not in a good way. The story was one of the worst I've ever seen in a video game (as far as games actually trying to have a story go), while the characters were as bad, if not worse, than the cast of Kingdom Hearts.

Well, saying this would be assuming PSU had a good storyline to begin with. First off. Decent, maybe, but i wouldn't say anywhere better than PSP2. While i hated Emilia's physical design, i'll have to admit she's been my favorite PSU character since Laia or Ethan. Her personality was great (when she wasn't actually talking in Sega's shitty CG videos anyway). She actually reminds me of myself, to tell the truth...

When PSP2 EU/US was released without voice acting, at first i was pretty heated....until i continued onward and realized how BAD that game would have been if i had to hear Emilia and those terrible voice actors actually recite those lines. I think that helped it for me. Because as funny as i thought Emilia was, i couldn't STAND her in those god damn videos.


And you would second be implying Kingdom Hearts has a bad cast of characters. KH's characters are fine -- it's the retarded storyline thats the culprit. Every game after 1 just was a shitstorm of plot twists that honestly i stopped caring about after 2. I'll admit i never really liked Riku that much (in fact i HATED HIM and wanted him to be killed off by the end of KH1 for being a douche while he was possessed), and thought his KH2 design was pretty gay.





It was also by far the most imbalanced Phantasy Star I've played (GC, BB, PSU, AotI, PSZ). Whether or not previous games have been balanced is up to debate, and even fun to talk about, even if there are examples of glaring imbalance between the games, such as Figh/Gunmaster Vs. Masterforce. Even then you'll have people arguing for masterforce... Or another example, RAcast Vs. Every other class. But in PSP2? It's just depressing. I don't think you'll find a single person who'll argue forces were balanced in any way.

Well, thats if you exclude PSP2i, where forces are probably a tad OP in reality.

PSP2 forces were ass. I'll be the first to rant about how entirely useless they were. But there is NO denying in my mind that PSP2 has taken almost everything wrong with PSU and improved on it in some way. But were they more ass than PSU forces? Maybe, but that really isn't saying much, because PSU forces were ass too.




I'm going to stop myself from ranting though, and just link this instead: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/969683-phantasy-star-portable-2/57131736 l2ag3 and LeiLeiMoo basicly sum up all of my major complaints about the game.

Dont link to gamefaq forums.....

...and in light of PSP2's shortcomings, you would take PSU's over them?


As for what was better? AotI, for sure. The core mechanics aren't even really all that different from PSP2. I mean, what're the biggest changes between the games -- dodging, Blocking, and the (completely broken) chain system

Had to stop right here. Dodging alone added a completely different aspect to the game, as did blocking (which completely changes a few things too.) The way the enemies are designed takes a complete turn based on these 2 simple additions. (Notice how the aggression of the De Ragan is completely different in PSP2. In PSU he was a joke at all levels.)




. But you know what? AotI is more fun. WAY more fun. PSP2 had all these great ideas, but completely broke them with rampant imbalance. 27 weapon types and only 3 are worth using? 4 classes with a multitude of different talents and abilities, and EX traps trump them all? Dodge rolls and blocking are great, yes, but not when they become totally, completely, and literally mandatory to surviving. In Monster Hunter, the game that PSP2 is so blatently ripping off in a number of places, dodging helps, but if you miss a dodge or a block, it's going to hurt, yes, but it's not going to outright KILL you. In PSP2, this is not the case. If you're not blocking, there are a number of enemies that're going to either one-shot you, or stunlock you into insta-death. This isn't right. This is bad design. Nobody liked Megid in PSO, so why the hell did they give it to every single enemy?


Wow, are you completely forgetting about Fighmaster and Gunmaster? Spears and Axes? Majarra and Jarbroken?

And I specifically remember Go Vahara's pwning my force, certian enemies (with their non-TP based technics) one shotting entire parties with Foie, Jarbas complete with Megid AND Dambarta...what are you talking about? Everything you mentioned in PSP2 happens, quite frequently, in PSU. Difference is, after you get to a certain level in PSU, you're Jesus, so nobody cares anymore.

And a design where you're encouraged to block an enemy or learn it's attack pattern to avoid being hit with powerful attacks isn't bad. It's just more in depth than PSU, where you're encouraged to just spam your most powerful PA whenever you get the chance. And by the way, you can't really miss a block. You can not insta-block, or block in the wrong direction...but blocking itself relieves WAY more damage than if you took the attack raw.

The only flaw to PSP2 in regards to that is Insta-blocking. It should not exist the way it does. You should be able to maybe take 1/4th the damage, or 1/2, but never completely negate an attack. You technically have the ability to never be hit by any attack that can cause damage to you.


PSU was more rough around the edges, sure, but the much smaller amount of imbalances within the core gameplay make it a better game. I actually had reasons to use knuckles, daggers, spears, axes, whips, twin hanguns, crossbows, rifles, lasers, shotguns, wands, staves, and t-mags, reasons other than aesthetic. In PSP2, there's nothing worth using out of spears, twin sabers, or twin handguns.

Thats like saying in PSU there was nothing worth using but Spears, Axes, Rifles or Wands. Your argument doesn't fly, the same issues are present.

You're completely forgetting that AotI added a feature that COMPLETELY nuked the balance of that game -- Just Attack. It allowed Hunter weapons to achieve critical hits for entire combos for free. Forces (which were near the top in PSUv1) were completely left behind and NEVER caught up again, until you attain a maxed out Masterforce, anyway, and you're still weaker than the basic Fighmaster. Rangers in PSU are HELLA boring. I dont know how anyone can stomach holding the strafe button and tapping a single button over and over again.

Chain took the monotony of PSU's combat and gave you the ability to get more rewards out of your attacks. It works very well. I'll admit, they severely need to alter the amount of time you gain on a chain for each weapon and photon art, but it's still better than PSU's shit.


And while PSP2 forces are SHIT in solo, as long as you have a person who can get the chain over 2 or 3 for you, you're going to do absolutely amazing damage. Also, their buffs are stronger, and their Debuffs are WAY better than anything on PSU. You would undoubtedly add tons of help to any team who's having accuracy issues with Zalure. In PSU, Debuffs are barely even optional. By the time you apply them, the enemy is already half dead, and you have to apply like a trillion of them in the first place.



BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, READ THIS PART IF NOTHING ELSE, OR IF YOU ONLY READ HALF / A QUARTER OF WHAT I SAID: I am speaking to PSP2 ONLY, NOT TOWARDS INFINITY AT ALL. I have not played Infinity, so I cannot pass judgement on it. I can look up all the information I want, but until I have it in my own hands, I cannot form my own opinion on it. If it fixes all of the things that bugged me about PSP2, then that's great! But also too little, too late, since it doesn't look like we'll get it here anyways.


Well...yeah, i wish i read this before i starting typing. Why would you complain about PSP2 before playing it's expansion?

Thats like complaining about PSUv1 before playing AotI.

Akaimizu
Jun 15, 2011, 01:53 PM
Well, there is one major reason why that could be a valid point. PSP2i isn't released anywhere outside Japan, or even announced, while everything else is.

yoshiblue
Jun 15, 2011, 02:42 PM
What I want to know is, how do you kill someone already dead?

Killing Zombies, Shot to the head.

Killing Daedric princes, Kill them at their world.

Unkillable [no-no word], Kill them at their source.

For everything else, theres Yoshiblue.

RemiusTA
Jun 15, 2011, 02:58 PM
Well, there is one major reason why that could be a valid point. PSP2i isn't released anywhere outside Japan, or even announced, while everything else is.

I guess.

My JP PSP2 characters are higher than my US ones. But i honestly cant stand not being able to read things, so i just skipped infinity alltogether. If it doesnt come here, i just wont play it probably.

NoiseHERO
Jun 15, 2011, 05:50 PM
What I want to know is, how do you kill someone already dead?

Well she was just a ghost made up of data or some crap, but in the fantasy star world technology has a mind and will and heart of it's own because of anime science so yeah, she's dead.

Alnet
Jun 15, 2011, 06:38 PM
What I want to know is, how do you kill someone already dead?
With fire, allegedly.

Mike
Jun 15, 2011, 07:30 PM
THE MAIN CHARACTER WAS A MARY SUE AND THE MAIN VILLAIN WAS A SEPHIROTH CLONE AND SOMEONE DIED AT THE END!!
Wow. What kind of wish-fulfillment fantasy did Emelia do for you?

NoiseHERO
Jun 15, 2011, 07:46 PM
Wow. What kind of wish-fulfillment fantasy did Emelia do for you?

That's between me and HER. OKAY, GUY?

Mike
Jun 15, 2011, 08:49 PM
That's between me and HER. OKAY, GUY?
Gasp!

blace
Jun 16, 2011, 01:09 AM
Is there some kind of romance I'm sensing here?

Well you can pick whatever you want man, I'm not stopping you.

And this video I uploaded from a clsoed beta test looks like it's similar to how PSO 2 will play out from what we've seen for now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9ffGHHo23o&lc=SNyCIjbZEwg7tVO99hrNWNZSXYY-T6hejhPB2

Alexvrb
Jun 20, 2011, 07:42 PM
Is there some kind of romance I'm sensing here?

Well you can pick whatever you want man, I'm not stopping you.

And this video I uploaded from a clsoed beta test looks like it's similar to how PSO 2 will play out from what we've seen for now:
YouTube - &#x202a;Dragon Nest Closed Beta gameplay&#x202c;&rlm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9ffGHHo23o&lc=SNyCIjbZEwg7tVO99hrNWNZSXYY-T6hejhPB2)



Looks a lot like DFO 3D.

Randomness
Jun 20, 2011, 10:26 PM
Looks a lot like DFO 3D.



Its fails at that. Hyper, hyper repetitive, as in mash skill keys>things die. Combos? Well, skills cause skills to hit... but nothing complicated. Just, again, mash buttons.

RemiusTA
Jun 21, 2011, 12:00 AM
That game actually looks like something i'd play....!

blace
Jun 21, 2011, 02:11 PM
That game actually looks like something i'd play....!
There's a few differences when they first announced the game, the archer in the trailers could rapid fire a short bow like a machine gun, but they took that out and added in a crossbow that doesn't hit as fast. The other difference is the sorceress is a underpowered compared to how she was depicted before the game was even released in Korea.

I know the trailers and the final products are different, I just want a machine bow.

And the games synthing process isn't very complicated either, you go to an extractor to have parts removed from one item and use it again in another to create a stronger weapon.

RemiusTA
Jun 21, 2011, 02:25 PM
F2P or P2P

blace
Jun 21, 2011, 02:30 PM
F2P, and doesn't rely heavily on CS.

Randomness
Jun 21, 2011, 06:42 PM
Frankly, I want P2P. It's VERY rare to find a F2P game where CS users don't have an inherent advantage. Offhand, the only thing I can name without thinking/rationalizing is LoL. If they did F2P, I'd want them to limit themselves to time-savings being sold, and possibly cosmetics... however said cosmetics would have to be tradable, to meet the ideal of there being literally nothing available for $ not available for time alone.

Alexvrb
Jun 21, 2011, 09:29 PM
Frankly, I want P2P. It's VERY rare to find a F2P game where CS users don't have an inherent advantage. Offhand, the only thing I can name without thinking/rationalizing is LoL. If they did F2P, I'd want them to limit themselves to time-savings being sold, and possibly cosmetics... however said cosmetics would have to be tradable, to meet the ideal of there being literally nothing available for $ not available for time alone.F2P is a piece of cake for "Isolated match" games like LoL, because the actual matches don't have to be hosted on their servers. That takes a lot of weight off the company financially, since they only have a matchmaking type of workload (and sometimes even the matchmaking is ad-supported). This applies to any "Isolated match" type game that can either be dynamically hosted by the players, or otherwise hosted on player- and community-driven servers (Counter-Strike, Team Fortress, Diablo, etc.). Heck in many of those cases they're not even doing much in the way of matchmaking other than spitting out a server list for you. So for games like that, F2P is usually pretty easy to pull off.

An MMO, on the other hand, or even one that is a semi-MMO, has a lot more being hosted on their servers. More hardware, and more bandwidth, just to start. It's a lot harder to make those F2P without compromising here and there. I've seen quite a few MMO F2P models, and some are OK and some are poor. I can't lump them all together and say they're all bad or all good though, it's really a case-by-case thing. However, personally I have had the best gaming experiences overall with P2P or hybrid models (hybrid meaning F2P and P2P accounts coexisting in the same game). Champions Online has a decent hybrid model - not perfect, but decent.

So I'll say that I also hope PSO2 uses a typical P2P model, at least to start with. Sega could use the cashflow, and I could use the PSO, uh, flow.

/lurklurk

RemiusTA
Jun 21, 2011, 09:48 PM
I dont care about F2P because of what the cash shop does to the players. I care about F2P because of what the Cash Shop does to the developers.

They dont design the game to be the best it can be, they design the game with the purpose of moving you into a position where you'd be inclined to use the Cash Shop. This usually means you'll reach a point where the exp is so terrible you either 1) waste your life 2) pay or 3) quit. Which is what I usually do.

But then again, PSU was a P2P game designed in the exact same fashion...except worse, because there was no cash shop for an escape. We were stuck with shitty grinding/upgrade systems until they literally changed the game. And while i was playing, there was tons of things on the disc since PSUv1 that didn't come out until I quit...which was years after AotI was released.

Miyoko
Jun 24, 2011, 10:00 PM
Since I don't really care that much, I'm not going to pick out and refute every single little thing. I'm also going to leave out things that I ASSUME you are talking about Infinity for, since we can't really compare those.

Egghh....
And you would second be implying Kingdom Hearts has a bad cast of characters. KH's characters are fine -- it's the retarded storyline thats the culprit. Every game after 1 just was a shitstorm of plot twists that honestly i stopped caring about after 2. I'll admit i never really liked Riku that much (in fact i HATED HIM and wanted him to be killed off by the end of KH1 for being a douche while he was possessed), and thought his KH2 design was pretty gay.

Well, calling out KH like that was mostly just a knee-jerk reaction, but you're totally right about the plot being worse than the characters :P I'd still argue they're flimsy though.




Dont link to gamefaq forums.....

This, however, is bullshit. I'm sorry, but you can't just say that anything posted on gamefaqs is automaticly not a valid point. There are some very intelligent people there. No less and no more than there are here. Don't you dare try and say these forms are any less stupid. The posts I singled out make very valid points, many of which your counter-arguments try and refute. Take time to actually read it.

This isn't university. We don't need peer reviewed sources. This is opinions. Come on.



Had to stop right here. Dodging alone added a completely different aspect to the game, as did blocking (which completely changes a few things too.) The way the enemies are designed takes a complete turn based on these 2 simple additions. (Notice how the aggression of the De Ragan is completely different in PSP2. In PSU he was a joke at all levels.)

Yes, they did. I'm not arguing that they didn't. I'm saying the changes they did were poorly implemented. De Ragan is an example of it done right, because, while he has those homing fire attacks, you know what happens if one hits you? You get hurt. That's it. You don't outright die. You get a smack on the bum and learn to smarten up. What about Reol Badira? That attack with the blue explosions. There are two variations of it, and it's nearly impossible to tell which one it is. If the entire chain of attacks is targeting you (which is frequent in my experience), and you don't perfect block the first one, you're screwed (maybe hunters get out of it easier with more EXP, but I'm a ranger and PSP2 doesn't like us). That's bad design, especially since it's not only hard to see the attack coming with a small screen, but also because if your PP bar isn't full, you're still liable to die even if you block the whole thing.




Wow, are you completely forgetting about Fighmaster and Gunmaster? Spears and Axes? Majarra and Jarbroken?

Nope. If you'd looked at the gamefaqs thread, you'd know that. But I'll reiterate here -- Majarra and Jabroken were rediculous, yes, but you know what? There's still times to use Dus Robado over Majara. There're still times to use Bogga Robado over both Majara and Jabroken. Or Bogga Zubba over either of those. I can give you examples of times I'd use any of those over Majarra or Jabroga, and on a FREQUENT basis, not just minor ones. This is not the case with PSP2. It's almost impossible to find a time to use something outside of twin sabers spears and twin handguns that isn't extremely situational. Even if fighmaster, gunmaster, spears and axes were broken, there was still enough other approaches that were valid enough to bring outside of those classes.



And I specifically remember Go Vahara's pwning my force, certian enemies (with their non-TP based technics) one shotting entire parties with Foie, Jarbas complete with Megid AND Dambarta...what are you talking about? Everything you mentioned in PSP2 happens, quite frequently, in PSU. Difference is, after you get to a certain level in PSU, you're Jesus, so nobody cares anymore.

It happens in PSU, yes, and it's also ANNOYING in PSU as well! But it happens MUCH less often in PSU than it does in PSP2. In PSU, it's the occasional enemy, it's sword buffed enemies... In PSP2, it's friggin' EVERYTHING.

If Infinity has toned down the random deaths behind every corner though, please do tell me. I would love to hear positive changes.



And a design where you're encouraged to block an enemy or learn it's attack pattern to avoid being hit with powerful attacks isn't bad. It's just more in depth than PSU, where you're encouraged to just spam your most powerful PA whenever you get the chance. And by the way, you can't really miss a block. You can not insta-block, or block in the wrong direction...but blocking itself relieves WAY more damage than if you took the attack raw.
I'm not saying that a design where you're encouraged to block or to learn patterns is bad. I'm a NES era kid. I love hard games. At one point, I came close to the world record speed run for Mega Man X2. I'm saying bad design is when you're punished way to severely for something that's pretty unfair to begin with (a lot of this I blame on the PSP hardware/resolution, but PC gaming has spoiled me).



You're completely forgetting that AotI added a feature that COMPLETELY nuked the balance of that game -- Just Attack. It allowed Hunter weapons to achieve critical hits for entire combos for free. Forces (which were near the top in PSUv1) were completely left behind and NEVER caught up again, until you attain a maxed out Masterforce, anyway, and you're still weaker than the basic Fighmaster. Rangers in PSU are HELLA boring. I dont know how anyone can stomach holding the strafe button and tapping a single button over and over again.
Rangers were able to keep up to "completely nuked balance of Just Attack" just fine. I never had any problems with my Fortetecher. Even at Lv130, dambarta was capable of all kinds of rape. And hey, I can still support my team, too!

[QUOTE=RemiusTA;2642896]
Chain took the monotony of PSU's combat and gave you the ability to get more rewards out of your attacks. It works very well. I'll admit, they severely need to alter the amount of time you gain on a chain for each weapon and photon art, but it's still better than PSU's shit.

The idea behind the chain system is a good idea, but the execution -blows-. It does not work very well AT ALL. It makes most PA's pointless and dish out almost identical damage, with the three broken weapon types I mentioned being leaps and bounds ahead of other PAs. I'm on the complete opposite end of this one to you, but, it seems we both think it'd be a great system with some tweaks.



And while PSP2 forces are SHIT in solo, as long as you have a person who can get the chain over 2 or 3 for you, you're going to do absolutely amazing damage. Also, their buffs are stronger, and their Debuffs are WAY better than anything on PSU. You would undoubtedly add tons of help to any team who's having accuracy issues with Zalure. In PSU, Debuffs are barely even optional. By the time you apply them, the enemy is already half dead, and you have to apply like a trillion of them in the first place.

Or you could have two rangers to raise the chain higher, faster, and dish out more damage. Having a force here to slow down the chain raising, thus the damage. Oh boy.

SUV's for CASTs to provide super-high level buffs. Shifta and Deband sure are useful here.

Strong debuffs that NEVER land. Using your own arguement against you -- By the time I actually manage to get the damn debuff to stick to something, I could've just killed it long ago.



Well...yeah, i wish i read this before i starting typing. Why would you complain about PSP2 before playing it's expansion?

Because it's likely the only version of the game we're going to get :l

RemiusTA
Jun 25, 2011, 02:38 PM
This, however, is bullshit. I'm sorry, but you can't just say that anything posted on gamefaqs is automaticly not a valid point. There are some very intelligent people there.

pppppppppppppsssssssssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhh .



Yes, they did. I'm not arguing that they didn't. I'm saying the changes they did were poorly implemented. De Ragan is an example of it done right, because, while he has those homing fire attacks, you know what happens if one hits you? You get hurt. That's it. You don't outright die. You get a smack on the bum and learn to smarten up. What about Reol Badira? That attack with the blue explosions. There are two variations of it, and it's nearly impossible to tell which one it is. If the entire chain of attacks is targeting you (which is frequent in my experience), and you don't perfect block the first one, you're screwed (maybe hunters get out of it easier with more EXP, but I'm a ranger and PSP2 doesn't like us). That's bad design, especially since it's not only hard to see the attack coming with a small screen, but also because if your PP bar isn't full, you're still liable to die even if you block the whole thing.Don't remember that. I hated most of the PSU bosses anyway, and after years and hundreds of hours of playing i still rarely know any of them by name.




Nope. If you'd looked at the gamefaqs thread, you'd know that. Haha, o man u funy


But I'll reiterate here -- Majarra and Jabroken were rediculous, yes, but you know what? There's still times to use Dus Robado over Majara. There're still times to use Bogga Robado over both Majara and Jabroken. Or Bogga Zubba over either of those. I can give you examples of times I'd use any of those over Majarra or Jabroga, and on a FREQUENT basis, not just minor ones. This is not the case with PSP2. It's almost impossible to find a time to use something outside of twin sabers spears and twin handguns that isn't extremely situational. Even if fighmaster, gunmaster, spears and axes were broken, there was still enough other approaches that were valid enough to bring outside of those classes.The new knuckles PA, the new Axe PA, the new saber PA (as well as the other ones), Spinning Strike...you seriously only used BD, skadd and charge shots the whole game? There are tons of useful PA's in the game, the fact that BD pretty much puts every other one to shame in terms of damage and safeness really is no different than Majara. It's the same case in PSP2. BD was definitely the most effective, but nobody ever forced you to use it. Just like in PSU, you COULD use the other ones....but Majara would definitely be quicker.

They both were flawed to the point where saying one was worse than the other really doesn't fly with me.



It happens in PSU, yes, and it's also ANNOYING in PSU as well! But it happens MUCH less often in PSU than it does in PSP2. In PSU, it's the occasional enemy, it's sword buffed enemies... In PSP2, it's friggin' EVERYTHING.
Egh, well. I dont remember EVERYTHING one hitting me, but whatever.



I'm not saying that a design where you're encouraged to block or to learn patterns is bad. I'm a NES era kid. I love hard games. At one point, I came close to the world record speed run for Mega Man X2. I'm saying bad design is when you're punished way to severely for something that's pretty unfair to begin with (a lot of this I blame on the PSP hardware/resolution, but PC gaming has spoiled me).Unless you were a force (or newman), you really only had to worry about this on the higher missions. Note that in PSP2, you're able to start missions with enemies dozens of levels over you.



Rangers were able to keep up to "completely nuked balance of Just Attack" just fine. I never had any problems with my Fortetecher. Even at Lv130, dambarta was capable of all kinds of rape. And hey, I can still support my team, too!Dambarta only worked on the tiny retarded enemies that do nothing but run up in your face and die. By the time enemies changed into their S-rank forms (Go Vahara), Dambarta might as well have decreased your HP for you.

I never said rangers wern't good, i said they were shit boring. Like, really, really boring. You used one button the whole game and rarely had to worry about getting hit.



The idea behind the chain system is a good idea, but the execution -blows-. It does not work very well AT ALL. It makes most PA's pointless and dish out almost identical damage, with the three broken weapon types I mentioned being leaps and bounds ahead of other PAs. I'm on the complete opposite end of this one to you, but, it seems we both think it'd be a great system with some tweaks.No, it wasn't implemented very well, but it WAS an improvement. It's obvious that the system was designed with the new PAs in mind (some of the longer ones will have the chain end far before you finish the move)

It also made rangers stomachable to me. But the Charge Shots were just...ridiculous, i dont even know what they were thinking. Exploding Rifle shots? What the fuck.



Or you could have two rangers to raise the chain higher, faster, and dish out more damage. Having a force here to slow down the chain raising, thus the damage. Oh boy.Forces were chain ENDERs. They would have been an absolutely superb class if they either 1) wern't so slow or 2) had better ways to build chains without wasting PP and getting themselves murdered. Forces moving like cold syrup is the reason they sucked at building chains, and thus were a shitty class. But let anyone build the chain up, and they'll do very significant damage.

In PSP2i, they did exactly what i said they should have; 1) they got sped up and 2) were given technics that build chains for them. So yeah, they're pretty much the best class right now. Go figure, huh?


SUV's for CASTs to provide super-high level buffs. Shifta and Deband sure are useful here.Yeah because i get my SUV attack every 20 seconds rite



Strong debuffs that NEVER land. Using your own arguement against you -- By the time I actually manage to get the damn debuff to stick to something, I could've just killed it long ago.
They rarely landed, but if you're needing to use them, then NO, you would NOT have killed the enemy beforehand. Enemies in PSP2 were damn near untouchable without Zalure to lower their evasion and defense during lower levels. Playing with 3 friends on Ad-hoc, without my Zalure we were completely unable to finish those missions.


Don't get me wrong though. Forces were almost unplayable in that game, but with a team behind them, they could be decent. Just dont EVER try to solo ANYTHING, you will not win.

BIG OLAF
Jun 25, 2011, 02:46 PM
Oh, yeah. I forgot about the one singular person that thought PSP2's mechanics were bad. Lulz continue to ensue.

Evila
Jun 25, 2011, 03:21 PM
Make that plural persons! But this isn't the time or place. What does all this pointless arguing even have to do with PSO2 and synthing...?

If they're gonna bother with synthing, then I say no more boards/recipes to collect, just require rare materials, take em to a special NPC, 100% success rate. So, like trade missions pretty much.

KingBeeb
Jun 25, 2011, 03:31 PM
>Mfw people think ANY synthing system in a PSO game is good.

PSO didn't have a synthing system and it's still the best Phantasy Star game. You can't include the "special items" that needed BS doing to them because they were so rare I don't think I ever actually made one in my 8+ years of playing.

NoiseHERO
Jun 25, 2011, 03:32 PM
You're supposed to post a reaction image when you say "mfw"...

RemiusTA
Jun 26, 2011, 01:20 PM
Oh, yeah. I forgot about the one singular person that thought PSP2's mechanics were bad. Lulz continue to ensue.

PSP2's mechnics were improved but still quite flawed. He's right when he said the chaining system was poorly implemented. Each chain had a set time after you ended it, so no matter what you did, if you started some of the older PA's (Ikk Hic for example), there was no way in hell you'd get all the Chain damage out of it because it would end too quickly.

Forces were the obvious fuckup in PSP2's mechanics, but chains screwed them over too. Since they didnt get extended time to build their technics, if you get interrupted even once during your chains with technics, you were almost guaranteed to drop the chain completely.


But for most cases, unless you played a Force, i doubt you would have any problems with PSP2 coming from any of the other PSU titles.

NegaTsukasa
Jul 5, 2011, 03:44 AM
Damn, I remember Synthing. rrrrg! the ONLY weapon I got up to 10/10 was my Durandal.
That was it. and that took me several tries.

Now that Synthing has been confirmed I'm sure that 10/10 weapon you manage to grind will continue to be a conversation starter among your fellow team mates.

Jinto117
Jul 5, 2011, 04:01 AM
In my opinion, a player should never be punished by failing the creation of an item they spent hours grinding away searching for. I feel that failure should only be implemented when it comes to upgrading said weapon. But even then the weapon never be destroyed outright but penalized via capacity limitations or allowed attempts.

Tetsaru
Jul 5, 2011, 02:26 PM
I think the key factor in making a good synthesis system would to make it skill-based in some way. That way, if you do end up breaking or failing something, it's because you just weren't high enough level or did the wrong thing at the wrong time, rather than having some random number generator and a percent rate decide everything for you.

For example, in FF14, you can level up different crafting jobs just like you can level up combat jobs, except instead of killing monsters to gain experience, you just make or repair stuff. Each item you can make has a certain job and level associated with it (for example, to make a pair of Bronze Gauntlets, you'd need Armorer at Lv10, etc.), as well certain materials and parts needed to make it, some of which can also be crafted (such as a helmet visor, an axe blade, a weapon grip, etc.). When you actually start making the item, you have a durability stat, a quality stat, and a progress bar, and different actions you can take (some being abilities you can learn as you level up or trade guild marks in for, similar to trading in PA Fragments in PSU). The object is to fill the progress bar to 100% before your durability runs out, and also try to get the quality as high as you can. Depending on your level, what actions you take, and several other factors, certain things can happen to the synth as you're crafting it.

This is a video someone made during the FF14 Beta, but most of the mechanics are still the same:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSl0E9XQ2oo&feature=related

Something else they could do that I think would be cool would be to make a sort of action-based minigame out of it like Fable 3 did, as you can see below. However, I could see it being problematic if lag or slowdown was an issue, or some people just might not be fast enough:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeT4KGYq920

You guys get the idea. Something like those examples would be a lot more fun and engaging than just giving all your stuff to a lolibot, waiting for several hours, pray for the best, and then shove the end result down her throat when you end up with a low % or failure that you had no control over other than leveling up.

Alex Longstride
Jul 5, 2011, 05:05 PM
I think the key factor in making a good synthesis system would to make it skill-based in some way. That way, if you do end up breaking or failing something, it's because you just weren't high enough level or did the wrong thing at the wrong time, rather than having some random number generator and a percent rate decide everything for you.

For example, in FF14, you can level up different crafting jobs just like you can level up combat jobs, except instead of killing monsters to gain experience, you just make or repair stuff. Each item you can make has a certain job and level associated with it (for example, to make a pair of Bronze Gauntlets, you'd need Armorer at Lv10, etc.), as well certain materials and parts needed to make it, some of which can also be crafted (such as a helmet visor, an axe blade, a weapon grip, etc.). When you actually start making the item, you have a durability stat, a quality stat, and a progress bar, and different actions you can take (some being abilities you can learn as you level up or trade guild marks in for, similar to trading in PA Fragments in PSU). The object is to fill the progress bar to 100% before your durability runs out, and also try to get the quality as high as you can. Depending on your level, what actions you take, and several other factors, certain things can happen to the synth as you're crafting it.

This is a video someone made during the FF14 Beta, but most of the mechanics are still the same:

YouTube - &#x202a;FFXIV - The More You Know - Crafting&#x202c;&rlm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSl0E9XQ2oo&feature=related)

Something else they could do that I think would be cool would be to make a sort of action-based minigame out of it like Fable 3 did, as you can see below. However, I could see it being problematic if lag or slowdown was an issue, or some people just might not be fast enough:

YouTube - &#x202a;Fable 3 job making blacksmith, more happy music!&#x202c;&rlm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeT4KGYq920)

You guys get the idea. Something like those examples would be a lot more fun and engaging than just giving all your stuff to a lolibot, waiting for several hours, pray for the best, and then shove the end result down her throat when you end up with a low % or failure that you had no control over other than leveling up.

Seeing as the combat system looks more player-skill-oriented according to the teaser, I can definitely see this happening. And I want to see it happen. FFXIV's crafting system actually stood out a bit, and I'd love to see something similar but different in PSO2.

Ghen V 2.0
Jul 15, 2011, 10:58 PM
As long as the synthing doesn't suck as badly as PSU's, I'm willing to give it a go. I never had the same feeling of excitement as I did when finding a red box in PSO though.

Probably belongs in another thread, but I'd also much rather see mags make a return versus the lolibots.