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ShinMaruku
Jul 12, 2011, 09:42 PM
Sure drop rates are all good and fine but some people have shit luck, so to cater to that obsessive part of the gear grab I say they should add in tokens that drop after a run done well so if you miss your drop and do enough content you can still get your stuff.


They should also tier the tokens, say you want a X weapon, you run y-set of areas and do well and get the tokens for that specific weapon/item and build up to that prize.

That better prioritizes area so some don't fall out of practice since people generally take the path of least resistance, so you must subtly guide them.

BIG OLAF
Jul 12, 2011, 09:43 PM
Whether or not that's a good idea is all up to how the game is constructed, and we don't know that much yet to really give a good opinion on this, I think.

ShinMaruku
Jul 12, 2011, 09:48 PM
True but if they are listening we can throw out some ideas and maybe if they make sense in the game's framework they will take root. Good to discuss things. That and I want to see how much gear fiends there really are.

Zyrusticae
Jul 12, 2011, 09:49 PM
Regardless of how the game's loot system works, some method of being able to attain decent items outside of sheer luck is definitely necessary.

I like how Aion does it - there's a large number of items that can be attained through sheer persistence with alternative currencies, i.e. the various coin denominations (silver, gold, platinum, mithril) with exclusive gear for each denomination, abyss point items for the PvPers, crucible tokens for the highest-end PvE gear, and the gear you can attain through daily and weekly tokens from the NPC factions.

Yeah, that's a LOT of different ways to get gear. And, of course, you still have the old-fashioned method of just running through dungeons and praying for the RNG to go your way.

It'd be nice if PSO2 had at least one alternative currency you could use to buy gear with.

Shinji Kazuya
Jul 12, 2011, 09:49 PM
Yet more "they should this, they should that".

We'll see if SEGA of Japan comes to read the Phantasy Star Online 2 section on PSOWorld.com when we get enough info/screens/videos and, of course, when the game comes out.

Apparently a lot of folks in here think they do that.

I do think some kind of system like that would be nice, Shin. We'll see.

BIG OLAF
Jul 12, 2011, 09:51 PM
Regardless of how the game's loot system works, some method of being able to attain decent items outside of sheer luck is definitely necessary.

Oh, definitely. After playing PSU for almost 5 years, and still having basically no good items, I can 100% agree that there should be ulterior ways to get high-tier stuff (without a cash shop).


Yet more "they should this, they should that".

We'll see if SEGA of Japan comes to read the Phantasy Star Online 2 section on PSOWorld.com when we get enough info/screens/videos and, of course, when the game comes out.

Apparently a lot of folks in here think they do that.

People are allowed to speculate, or throw random ideas out there for others to discuss. Better than just sitting there like a spud and waiting for official info.

Angelo
Jul 12, 2011, 09:54 PM
I do like the idea of a currency like that.

City of Heroes did something very similar to this with the 'merit system'. Basically you could buy any of the rare stuff that normally had extremely rare drop rates with a high amount of 'merit points' that were earned through tough mission.

ShinMaruku
Jul 12, 2011, 10:08 PM
More options and consistent and solid options are what's needed. :)

Mike
Jul 12, 2011, 10:18 PM
I doubt it'll happen. You running a mission over and over to find a drop with low rates = increased number of runs = more time subscribed to PSO2 = more money for Sega.

Shinji Kazuya
Jul 12, 2011, 10:21 PM
I doubt it'll happen. You running a mission over and over to find a drop with low rates = increased number of runs = more time subscribed to PSO2 = more money for Sega.

Seriously, when ya think about this, it makes perfect sence.

ShinMaruku
Jul 12, 2011, 10:25 PM
I doubt it'll happen. You running a mission over and over to find a drop with low rates = increased number of runs = more time subscribed to PSO2 = more money for Sega.

That is why I tier the tokens, if you have a good flow of equipment and a measured way for getting them from runs of multiple places you can also stretch out the time a person plays.

You can't just base them coming for just low drop rates, most people will just get bored with the low drop rate, this gives them something to look for.

Look at achivement rates and other things to see if the keep running shit works. Most gamers are the ocd "MUST HAVE EPICS!" type. They don't do the "I ran this 200 times and still no drop" they go, "I did this over and over again and I get jack, fuck this game!"

RenzokukenZ
Jul 12, 2011, 10:48 PM
In other words, something similar to Photon Drops in PSO.

Shinji Kazuya
Jul 12, 2011, 10:54 PM
In other words, something similar to Photon Drops in PSO.

The happiness of seeing a Red just to get to it and read: "Photon Drop". Gah!!!

RemiusTA
Jul 12, 2011, 10:56 PM
Sure drop rates are all good and fine but some people have shit luck, so to cater to that obsessive part of the gear grab I say they should add in tokens that drop after a run done well so if you miss your drop and do enough content you can still get your stuff.


They should also tier the tokens, say you want a X weapon, you run y-set of areas and do well and get the tokens for that specific weapon/item and build up to that prize.

That better prioritizes area so some don't fall out of practice since people generally take the path of least resistance, so you must subtly guide them.

Yeah someone mentioned Photon Drops. Pretty much same thing. PSU did this with PA Fragments. In fact, they did it with multiple things. But mission rewards is something that did PSU far more bad than good. If you need anything to force the players to spam a single mission, Mission Rewards is the way to go.

This isnt really necessary though, because even if you're not lucky, the other percent of people are still getting the weapon. That's kind of the point of it having a terrible drop rate -- keeping it exclusive.

There's always the person who obtains it who cant use it, or the person who has one already and is willing to sell for that other object they've been looking for that they dont have (or maybe cant find) that you have.

Most of the rares i got in PSU? I ran the market for small (but useful) items i found that wasn't the item i was looking for. Collected them, sold them, and eventually you'll be able to pay for the weapon itself even if you can't find it. If you DO find it, then that's just money spent on other things you need.


PSU's My Room market system was really awesome. I really hope it comes back. Setting up my shop, advertising my store, and visiting other people's rooms and looking for the items i need while also exploring other room designs was a wonderful departure from what's usually a really boring ordeal. (Regular MMOs where you click crowded playershops and crap)

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 12, 2011, 11:04 PM
I'd be happy to see photon drops in PSO2, the photon drop system worked well in PSO.
Everyone feels entitled to something after spending many hours grinding for that special rare. It's only far to give the player something for their efforts.

On the other hand we are not entitled and therefore most of us rely on dumb luck to get that rare, or through a good trading system. If you have neither then the game just feels like an endless grind with no rewards, and that's not fun.

Has it been confirmed that we are going back to the four player party format? This should help the odds a bit.

ShinMaruku
Jul 12, 2011, 11:11 PM
In other words, something similar to Photon Drops in PSO.

A bit more complex than that. Having token classes and tiers would further add more wrinkles to it.

Tetsaru
Jul 13, 2011, 07:04 AM
Have a good synthing/crafting system in which materials are relatively easy to come by and people can make their own stuff, and I don't think that'd be much of a problem.

That, or some sort of alternate currency system, like how PA Fragments were used, but with a broader scale. For example:


1 PA Fragment can get you a Copernia for crafting; a few more, say 5, would get you a better material, like a Diad.


100 could earn you a basic, yet exclusive new ability to use for your job. Maybe 250 or 500 for higher-tier stuff.


1,000+ gets you a really nice account-bound item that can't be obtained any other way, such as a weapon or armor. Not the best stuff in the game, but something good enough to reward your time spent towards the game.


Photon Drops could work too, but I'm leaning more towards something you can earn for each mission or quest you do; something based more on completion and time spent rather than drop rates or luck.

Dragwind
Jul 13, 2011, 07:17 AM
I think this is something the RSD Trading Stations is slowly evolving to become.

It would be a neat idea to obtain tokens for specific missions that you could later trade in for a specific drop for that mission, but the token requirement would have to be pretty high. Either way, you're going to have to grind.

str898mustang
Jul 13, 2011, 08:15 AM
boo hoo I didn't get so and so weapon. Welcome to PSO/PSU/PSP/anygamewithdroprates

ShinMaruku
Jul 13, 2011, 11:24 AM
I think this is something the RSD Trading Stations is slowly evolving to become.

It would be a neat idea to obtain tokens for specific missions that you could later trade in for a specific drop for that mission, but the token requirement would have to be pretty high. Either way, you're going to have to grind.
It has to be a certain amount, plus there should be a way that you know how long it would take one to get such a drop. To add another wrinkle you an also use tokens to add whatever bonus element you'd like too, it would take some going but you put in the work you can change some things.

RemiusTA
Jul 13, 2011, 05:13 PM
I've....never really heard anyone complain about drop grinding in a Phantasy Star game.

The whole reason i enjoyed PSO so much is because in my quest for a specific rare, i'd find plenty of others for myself or my alts to use...and then i'd eventually find my rare. This worked because the game was built upon a system where a weapon with a high stat vs. the same class weapon of a lower stat can still both have their uses in battle. (For instance, one may have an HP-Half ability, or a HP-Sacrifice ability.)

If PSO2 works like that, there will be no need for this stuff. Of course, they're probably going to have it anyway, but if a weapon has a drop rate that's used to stop it from being easily obtained, i dont think it'll really be wise to give you easier ways to obtain it.

dont get me wrong, im the LAST person who would agree with a grind-based system on any videogame, especially PSO. But i do know that some of them are put in place for a reason.