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ARASHIKAGE
Jul 14, 2011, 05:38 PM
*note Please don't post in this thread to say you have no comment, if you're tired of this debate simply past it by, it won't hurt my feelings. I feel in-light of new information this topic deserves a new stage.

There has been a lot of talk about the PSP game Infinity creating (out of thin air) a link between PSO and PSU (it seems this cash cow has horns). Even though in an attempt to wash their hands of PSU, Sega made it very clear in 2006 that PSU "has no connection" with PSO. How does "no conection" become "sequel"? Well they need to broaden their fan base of course, you need to include all the new players that just picked up a PSP and it is their first Phantasy Star experience. Lets face it PSO came out over ten years ago and, by dating myself I started playing PSO in high school when it came out. There are a lot of gamers playing these new Phantasy Star Universe style games, and 90% of them have absolutely know clue what PSO is, because they never played it. But I don't blame any of them, because it would have been hard to get into the first consloe MMORPG when you are only five years old at the time.

Everything I've seen from the screen shoots to the trailer has had me super pumped for PSO's big return, there's nothing that is going to stop me from playing this game! Whether it terrible with North American service, the PSO2 development staff mostly have no ties to PSO (Sakai save us!), is a possible "cash cow", or to "PSU like", PC only, or full of Beasts. I will leap every obstacle and conquer all doubt and rumor to play PSO2, for what it is; my favorite MMO.

*crawls back inside the "Fan Boy, PSO Purist" cave for protection* "There's a storm coming, which is probably why I didn't see my shadow." *Gets ready for six weeks of something, something...*

BIG OLAF
Jul 14, 2011, 05:44 PM
When PSO came out, I didn't even know what a Dreamcast was. I went straight from the SEGA Genesis, to the Nintendo 64. I played PSO about a year or so after starting my PSU career. I found it to be extremely boring in comparison. In my experiences, I've found that the only people who like PSO more than the Universe series are those that played it when it came out, or generally before PSU was released.

Like I said a long time ago: there's a "generational gap" between fanbases of Online and Universe, which is where a lot of the disagreements come from.

Also, Infinity wasn't meant to be a "sequel." It was just a "branching story", to put it that way. Besides, every Phantasy Star game is related somehow. Go read the new "Phantasy Star timeline theory" thread in the Fan Works forum.

Point is: times change. Nothing lasts forever, especially not "good" things ("good" is in quotes because it's a subjective term here). Also, what would it matter if the game had Beasts in it? How would that be an "obstacle?" It's almost a certainty at this point that they won't be included, but still.

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 14, 2011, 05:52 PM
Like I said a long time ago: there's a "generational gap" between fanbases of Online and Universe, which is where a lot of the disagreements come from. I fully agree Olaf.



Also, Infinity wasn't meant to be a "sequel." It was just a "branching story", to put it that way. Besides, every Phantasy Star game is related somehow. Go read the new "Phantasy Star timeline theory" thread in the Fan Works forum.I was stating that PSU was the now discovered sequel to PSO. And PSO2 is going to be the middle slice there. Which is why now I strongly believe the next screen shots are going to be the Beasts.
Edit: Sonic Team has a chance to hit he reset button so to speak, on race balancing for a 4th race. I'm interested to see what they are going to do now that the storyline is catering to both PSO and PSU fans.

BIG OLAF
Jul 14, 2011, 05:56 PM
I was stating that PSU was the now discovered sequel to PSO. And PSO2 is going to be the middle slice there. Which is why now I strongly belive the next screen shots we are going to see are going to be Beasts.

While Infinity did uncover a "connection" between PSU and PSO, I wouldn't call the Universe series a sequel, per se. They just had, once again, "connections" to each other. I think the reason PSO2 is named "PSO2" is because it will follow the PSO storyline a lot more closely. The PSO references in the Universe series were put in just to be fanservice afterthoughts, and not really taken seriously. At least not to me. PSO2 will most likely be the successor to PSO, at least from a storyline point of view. As in, a much closer "branching off" from the original PSO.

As for Beasts being in PSO2, I very highly doubt it. But, if they are, that would make my day week month year.

RemiusTA
Jul 14, 2011, 06:39 PM
Man look me and my best friend used to play Sonic Adventure 2 on my dreamcast after school all day. I was in like Middle School. One day, he came up to my house with this game with some badass art on the cover. When i asked him what it was, he said "i looked it up online because the cover looked cool, its really fun". So we played. And i begged him (literally) to borrow it when it was time for him to go.


My two cents on where PSO2 is going to have to put in work:

This game is going to need to feel like AN EXPERIENCE AGAIN.

It's going to need that old "DREAMCAST" effect, you know? That old Shenmue, JGR, Powerstone, Sonic Adventure, "Wow this game is neat i cant wait to get to the next level" experience feeling. It's been lost in videogames for what feels like a decade, man...



I feel this is the most important aspect, hands down. In PSO, the fun in starting the game came from the feeling of being thrown into a new world, slowly learning how to manage yourself. Your skill in whatever other videogames you played simply did not help you. If you and your freaking sister started playing the game together, you were both at floor 0 for the most part.

You practice the 3-hit combos on the boxes where you spawn. You attacked an enemy, and he hit you and knocked you on the ground. You get up, and instantly say "shit, im about to die, how to heal myself". You heal yourself, and finish off the enemy. A box drops. You pick it up and ask, "what does this do?" "Why is the text green?" "What is a barrier?" "What is this floating thing over my shoulder do?" "How do i use my handgun?"

As you continue to play PSO, from the Forest to the Ruins, the entire game is slowly letting you experience more and more unique things. You fight rappies and boomas until you finally run across a giant enemy that you cannot knock back with your hard attack, and a dragon that flies and goes underground. Hunters find their first giant Sword that can wack multiple enemies at once. Rangers equip their rifles and (probably) are the first to use the Extra Attack feature. Forces slowly build up their magic list, and then slowly start to realize that it literally changes as it levels. Rangers start using sabers, Forces start using handguns, and hunters start using magic. Everything is like a constant experience, and you are consistantly (and VISUALLY) growing.

You begin to understand how to feed your mag, and how it will evolves, and then later how it can actually help you in battle. (which is always a "HOLY SHIT WHAT'D I DO" moment for everyone i play with)



The other titles? They just did not achieve this level of immersion with the game. (NO, im not talking about graphics or clothing.) By Immersion, i mean "you grow with your character". In PSU, you are given 2 buttons to attack with, and quickly learn for yourself that "if i press the Triangle Button, i'll probably kill the enemy"...and thats what you do for the rest of the game. This is exaggerated a bit, but for the most part, it's absolutely true and you know it. The most "exploration" or "experience" you will get from PSU will come from the lots of different Photon Arts you can use for each move. But that is not the same as true character growth.


Things like this? It's the reason PSU and PSO follow pretty much the exact same pattern, but people complained about PSU's monotony FAR before they would say the same for PSO, which seeming has less features. It's because when you strip them down, they really aren't even the same.

Griffin
Jul 14, 2011, 06:48 PM
Everything I've seen from the screen shoots to the trailer has had me super pumped for PSO's big return, there's nothing that is going to stop me from playing this game!

That's the spirit, guy! All you really need is that, in my opinion. I'm not much for number-crunching and theories, but I say Sega should give it their all this time around for everyone!

NoiseHERO
Jul 14, 2011, 06:58 PM
Theres 3 things I'm paranoid about but after those are clear, this game looks perfect to me.

1:Character and Class Customization + Outfits choices(Please god no, not PSO's system)
2:My room + Lobby system(I think I'm the only one who liked PSU's lobby system)
3:Weapon choices...(The weapons we seen before look like they have a LOT of uses, which I hope doesn't mean less weapons)




Wait WAS this a "What do you want in PSO2?" thread?

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 14, 2011, 07:15 PM
@RemiusTA: I'm really impressed by your take on the topic.
It almost makes me a bit sad though. If I were a "PSO Purist" (and I'm not saying I'm not) well then I would want everything PSO had to a tee and forget PSU ever happened. You're so right the experience PSO had was like no other, but time goes on and that was ten years ago. PSO2 can't capture that feeling of wonderment if it copies it's predecessors (PSO/PSU), it must be new, it must change, so we can achieve that same wonderment once again.

So far I'm impressed by the new subtle changes I've seen thus far to; the game play mechanics. But mostly to the; map shuffling along with the cut-in events, giving the player a sense of a real-time fresh environment. I believe that will go a long way in this game.

THLPSC
Jul 14, 2011, 07:20 PM
PSO has outdated mechanics. Guess that is all I am going to contribute to this discussion.

Angelo
Jul 14, 2011, 08:22 PM
They can muddle the game up beyond all reason and I'd still fork over cash to give it a shot.

I've been crazy about every online Phantasy Star game since DC's 'vanilla', save for Ep. 3.

MoonlightMyau
Jul 14, 2011, 08:25 PM
In my opinion, both the Phantasy Star Online & the Phantasy Star Universe series' were fantastic. I think both have good story lines & it's nice that there is a link between the two (even if it is purely to get PSP players to play PSO2).

The fact people are still playing these games after 10 & 5 years & that people are so passionate about them, speaks absolute volumes.

I'm going to state the obvious and say that there is really good qualities in both games & both have really weak points. I hope (and it looks like, so far) that Sega are culminating the strongest points from each for PSO2.

I really agree with RemiusTA that they need to make it an experience again, it needs to feel powerful, exciting and most importantly engaging. I feel like this is a chance for Sega to create a monster of a game & bring the old & new players together.

Griffin
Jul 14, 2011, 08:28 PM
I feel like this is a chance for Sega to create a monster of a game & bring the old & new players together.

Couldn't agree more. As much as I've seen so far, I see no reason for one to show any sort of distaste. It all comes down to dedication and content on the team's part, and us players will take care of the rest!

Shinji Kazuya
Jul 14, 2011, 09:11 PM
I feel like this is a chance for Sega to create a monster of a game & bring the old & new players together.

I'm hoping for this as well! Let's see if we get new info tomorrow!!!

RemiusTA
Jul 14, 2011, 11:00 PM
@RemiusTA: I'm really impressed by your take on the topic.
It almost makes me a bit sad though. If I were a "PSO Purist" (and I'm not saying I'm not) well then I would want everything PSO had to a tee and forget PSU ever happened. You're so right the experience PSO had was like no other, but time goes on and that was ten years ago. PSO2 can't capture that feeling of wonderment if it copies it's predecessors (PSO/PSU), it must be new, it must change, so we can achieve that same wonderment once again.

I guess you misunderstood me a bit LoL

They do not have to copy PSO for them to achieve it's "feeling" again. That really isn't necessary...at all. I dont really feel like PSO and PSU are the same game, and when i glorify PSO's achievements, im not really putting down PSU. Although i do believe PSU had a ton more flaws than PSO did in its overall design (and thus, as a whole, PSO was the better title to me), it'd be dumb to think there wasn't anything to learn or take from it.


I am personally one to believe that for them to truly achieve what PSO accomplished once again, they have to do what PSO did in the first place -- create a NEW unique experience.


I want a NEW control scheme that is unique. PSO's "Customization" system was well done, it worked, and it felt unique. PSU's Action Pallete was...well, flawed in many ways, and the 1-handed/2-handed weapon system probably should have been handled differently. But all is well, because this is a completely fresh start. Hopefully, the combo system they have in store with PSO2 will allow for the same feeling of growth that doesn't focus entirely on combos and numbers. I hope there is another system that can usurp the MAGs of PSO as well. I also hope there is an expansion of the Synthesis system from PSU, and that Dodge Rolling and Blocking are revamped to be less of a "100% get out of danger free" mechanic.


Hopefully the Alpha Test footage will show us what this game can do. After seeing the gameplay video, i no longer really question whether or not the game will be good. The question really is "how good" and "are they really focusing on the correct aspects".


But in terms of bringing Old and New players together? I think i stated it before, but it's pretty much a win-win situation for everyone but the extremists. PSO fans always complain about the "atmosphere" of PSU, while PSU fans only really complain about how outdated PSO is. If you combine new gameplay mecahnics with PSO's more serious outlook, then it's a win-win formula....unless you're a PSO fanboy who is mad the 3-hit combo is gone, or a PSU fanboy who's mad you can't go to battle in magical girl outfits with stars and butterflies following you.

Hotobu
Jul 15, 2011, 08:38 AM
These games had stores? I never noticed.

PSO: "Some chick named Rico ran into Dark Falz: Press Start" ... Oh and try not to get NOL'ed LOL!

PSO2: "Go online and kill shit."

...why anyone wants anything else in this type of game is beyond me.

MoonlightMyau
Jul 15, 2011, 09:10 AM
These games had stores? I never noticed.

PSO: "Some chick named Rico ran into Dark Falz: Press Start" ... Oh and try not to get NOL'ed LOL!

PSO2: "Go online and kill shit."

...why anyone wants anything else in this type of game is beyond me.

I like the story aspect personally, I was glad PSU had a proper story mode (although I wish it could've been multiplayer). But I'm sure most players couldn't give a monkeys & just want to slice & dice boomas into oblivion.

I think it's nice to have the option to follow the story, or simply ignore it. Hopefully that will remain for PSO2.

Demon-
Jul 15, 2011, 10:24 AM
I'm a huge fan of the Phantasy Star games dating all the way back to the ones on the Genesis and I fell in love with PSO since the first day I played it when it came out on Dreamcast. I remember being in awe of the entire game from the music to the deep dungeons and the huge bosses, I mean it had it all and that's kind of what I'm hopping PSO2 has, that "awe" factor.

I still wouldn't say throw everything from PSU out the windows because they did do a few things right. Faster gameplay, more clothes options, and my room shops being a few things I really liked.

But yeah I'm pumped too because so far by the look of the gameplay video, this game could bring the series back to life.

Hotobu
Jul 15, 2011, 11:28 AM
Above all else my biggest hope is that they've found a way to stop, or at least severely curve so it's not so simple that a retard can do it, hacks/cheats. I think that more than anything else has been what's killed these games. Duping is bad, but when people can screw up other's characters and inventories, well that's going to far.

Shinji Kazuya
Jul 15, 2011, 11:31 AM
I totaly agree. I hate this damn hacking stuff, especially when it affects a lot of users.

Criss
Jul 20, 2011, 10:50 PM
As amazing as the game itself looks, I'm not getting my hopes up about this. In retrospect, PSU was a bitter disappointment from start to finish, and I don't have any expectations about PSO2 until I see some major administrative changes at Sega (or even any official confirmation of an english language release, if I missed it please point me to it).

Sega has shown time and time again that they have no intention of investing into the Phantasy Star series outside of Japan (at least not in any manner of quality), and there is no indication that they will do different for PSO2.

I'd love to be wrong, but I'd rather expect the worst and soften the potential disappointment.

pikachief
Jul 20, 2011, 11:33 PM
I played PSO when it was released but i didn't remember it. Going back to PSO years later, not remembering it, I have lots of fun with it still and it has been a new experience to me. I mainly have fun playing it with my cousin though. The thing that stands out for me is the fact that it's a split screen offline multiplayer RPG.


Theres 3 things I'm paranoid about but after those are clear, this game looks perfect to me.

1:Character and Class Customization + Outfits choices(Please god no, not PSO's system)
2:My room + Lobby system(I think I'm the only one who liked PSU's lobby system)
3:Weapon choices...(The weapons we seen before look like they have a LOT of uses, which I hope doesn't mean less weapons)




Wait WAS this a "What do you want in PSO2?" thread?

They've already said on multiple occasions that they were gonna have more customization than the previous titles, so its guaranteed that it's at least gonna have the customization of PSU and seeing how much business JP PSU gets from clothes I highly doubt they'd slack on the customization of clothes at all. Not much of customization i'd worry about, but I'm sure once the alpha is released the little customization they'll have there should calm people down :)

Oh and I liked PSU's lobby system.

Corey Blue
Jul 21, 2011, 12:38 AM
If it's not a global server I dont want PSU style lobbies,it was to big and all that empty space was ridiculous.

r00tabaga
Jul 21, 2011, 01:04 AM
I love that pspo2 brought some new gameplay elements but god damn was the story cheeeeeeeezy. PSU was prolly just as cheese but I couldn't get past the Vol brothers to find out. They looked so goofy I bailed on the story ASAP. Hopefully pso2 does the story & "experience" right. Hopefully!

landman
Jul 21, 2011, 01:03 PM
My opinion of PSO today is the same that the one I had on its day: control could be better, always felt rough, and I'm only talking about walking. And personally, I was never a hardcore player, so I got bored fast when things would get slower, leveling (I think I've never reached 130 on any version), or finding new stuff, at this point the game always felt like a grindfest and I would buy a Hunter's license after the first month. PSOBB had some updates and I was there a little bit longer.

PSU improved greatly on the control, and so far PSO2 seems to go some steps further on that aspect. And I was also a fan of regular updates and level caps: this way I was always able to play along the most hardcore players, at my own pace.


About storyline... PSU is as related to PSO as PSO is to Phantasy Star, the difference is that, for respect, they didn't put a direct link in PSO because they were a different team of programmers (Naka was just a little monkey in some of the classic games).

Beasts! I really don't see a problem here, just like newman where engineered on 3 (maybe 4) different civilizations so far, why wouldn't a different kind of newman be breed? call it Beast, call it Rika, so far Beast are the closest race to both Nei and Rika, unlike Space Elves from PSO and PSU (except for the Huneys)

NoiseHERO
Jul 21, 2011, 01:58 PM
There actually could easily be other races, regardless of what hardcore PSO fans want the game to be limited to...

I mean theres 7 planets... and a whole new civilization, (who knows what bored scientists thought of by now)

If Sakai can pull dumans out of the blue, then there can be a new race. Of course I highly doubt there would be looking at the notes pushed in our face so far but, meh.

I still want a post apocalyptic planet. ]:

BIG OLAF
Jul 21, 2011, 02:01 PM
There actually could easily be other races, regardless of what hardcore PSO fans want the game to be limited to...

I mean theres 7 planets... and a whole new civilization, (who knows what bored scientists thought of by now)

I already tried the "indigenous species" approach, and that didn't fly, either. Apparently it's impossible for intelligent, humanoid creatures to exist outside of bioengineering or something...in a video game (fiction), no less! Go figure.

landman
Jul 21, 2011, 02:14 PM
I already tried the "indigenous species" approach, and that didn't fly, either. Apparently it's impossible for intelligent, humanoid creatures to exist outside of bioengineering or something...in a video game (fiction), no less! Go figure.
Play the classic games, you will find plenty of alien sapiens.

BIG OLAF
Jul 21, 2011, 02:19 PM
Play the classic games, you will find plenty of alien sapiens.

I know. I was for the idea. I suggested it. But, of course, someone had to jump on my back saying how it was "too cliche", which made no sense.

LK1721
Jul 21, 2011, 04:00 PM
I originally didn't play the game up until PSOBB when I was...in 3rd grade? Somewhere around there...But did watch my dad play the Dreamcast version and get overly excited at the boss fights.

I mean, yeah, everything is 10 times more awesome as a kid, but I can still sit down and play PSO after a few years and have just as much fun. PSU on the other hand, I played it since launch and got bored shortly after AOTI came out. It wasn't that I didn't like PSU, there was just a lack of...as RemiusTA put it, experience.

Still, both games had fantastic aspects that could blend well with each other, and it looks like that is exactly what the team is working for. PSU's range of customization in anything from clothing choices to what your character's room looks like was awesome. PSP2's class system was something else I liked very, very much because you could customize your weapon set to EXACTLY how you played. PSO on the other hand had a more engaging atmosphere, coupled with that catchy soundtrack, and needing to FORCE yourself to get over that button-mashing reflex to do the combos right.

Frankly, though, even if it sucks I'll probably buy it anyway simply because my fantard reflex tells me to. But, this time I honestly feel like Sega is putting their all into producing one hell of a game that isn't just a carbon copy or smoothie of PSO and PSU, but a different beast all together that will do justice to the PS franchise in general.

RemiusTA
Jul 21, 2011, 05:48 PM
Yah the fantard reflex is the biggest thing here. We'll all probably get it.

Yeah, i was thinking one day on why PSU was not as fun as PSO in the long run, and "experience" is what i ultimately came up with because there are too many things different about the two titles.


Elaborate combos and ridiculous attacks don't make a good game. It's the feeling you get from using the elaborate combos and ridiculous attacks. If they become the norm, then they are no longer elaborate and ridiculous, but instead just...normal. PSO's entire gameplay seemed to revolve around "non exaggerated" -- you couldn't run before walking, you can only do one attack at a time, enemies knocked you down, ect ect.



I'll admit, the first time in PSUv1 i finally went online, the game FINALLY started to feel like PSO did. And it's online experience is fun, dampened only by Sega of Japan's neglect and the class imbalances present since AotI.

The reason the game was fun is because once again, i felt like my character had some vulnerabilities. My force was doing significant damage, and i was learning to cope with the new difficulty that simply was not present in the Story Mode version. Exploring the weapons and manufactures was a great touch, and playing a new mission for the first time is also exciting. But as you progress the game, that feeling quickly diminishes, as Photon Arts dominate all forms of gameplay, Rangers are reduced to a SINGLE button press, Force technics start to level at a useless rate (and not do good damage anymore)....just too many things. Thats leaving out the badly spaced missions, terrible boss fights, ect ect.


And i'll also admit, that while im hype for PSO2 right NOW, when i first saw the trailer, i didnt jump for joy, i didn't have little fan giggles...hell, i dont even really remember being all that happy. It looked like it was going to have the same issues PSU did -- focus on nothing but combat and quickly become boring as each character quickly becomes a god, juggling enemies and crap.

Guess i can only wait :P

Mike
Jul 21, 2011, 07:14 PM
I already tried the "indigenous species" approach, and that didn't fly, either. Apparently it's impossible for intelligent, humanoid creatures to exist outside of bioengineering or something...in a video game (fiction), no less! Go figure.

There are a few people on twitter as well as the fellow who runs Shogai PSO that think there may be a non-human race. I think it's too early to say for sure though.

Aumi
Jul 21, 2011, 08:11 PM
In my experiences, I've found that the only people who like PSO more than the Universe series are those that played it when it came out, or generally before PSU was released.

Guess I'm an exception then. Aside from a few minutes playing splitscreen on the GameCube version at a friend's place, the first time I really played PSO was quite a while after PSU was released, having played PSU since a few months after the release. And I must say: Gameplay-wise I prefer PSO, likely due to elements like the structure of maps, uniqueness of weapons and because it just generally required more strategy and teamwork compared to the mostly mindless button mashing that is PSU. Not that I didn't enjoy PSU, especially the social experience in PSU was by far superior. But aside from the social experience, I do prefer PSO...

yoshiblue
Jul 21, 2011, 08:31 PM
I like both games but I like PSO a bit more though. Beasts may bug me but im all for including them in PSO2 now. Aumi summed up the reason why I like PSO more.

Niloklives
Jul 21, 2011, 08:46 PM
I already tried the "indigenous species" approach, and that didn't fly, either. Apparently it's impossible for intelligent, humanoid creatures to exist outside of bioengineering or something...in a video game (fiction), no less! Go figure.

The argument was that the preexisting races have all been biologically engineered and it would feel forced if a race such as beasts who were previously biologically engineered were made an indigenous species just to make them fit, it would feel forced and therefore unwelcome. That in no way suggested much less insisted that "ALL RACES MUST BE BIOLOGICALLY ENGINEERED OR GTFO."

yoshiblue
Jul 21, 2011, 08:50 PM
Alot of people have argued with Olaf. I was one of them until I opened up my "mind" to accept other things. When I (and a few others) tried to come up with other ideas to end it, I may or may have not made it worse.

Padium
Jul 26, 2011, 11:15 PM
The more I look at this game, and the trailers and screenshots, the more I've come to realize, this probably won't be another PSO. It seems to be missing the feel I've come to love. I still plan to play it, and I hope for the best, but I don't want another PSU...

Cinnamon Roll
Jul 26, 2011, 11:16 PM
It feels like PSO to me, just improved.

What do you think is missing?

Darki
Jul 26, 2011, 11:17 PM
The more I look at this game, and the trailers and screenshots, the more I've come to realize, this probably won't be another PSO. It seems to be missing the feel I've come to love. I still plan to play it, and I hope for the best, but I don't want another PSU...

Oh dear, I hope you're right. To play PSO you have PSO already, duh.

I hope this game takes the best out of PSO and PSU and make it better.

Malachite
Jul 26, 2011, 11:22 PM
Oh wow not this shit again. This is it's own game, but if it can be related to anything, it's PSO, not PSU. That feel you're looking for is called nostalgia, and you're not gonna get it from a new game.

Like I've said before, if you want HD PSO, then go download BlueBurst and play your decade old game until your heart is content. They're not gonna hold a game back so it can be more similar, and more satisfying to people stuck in nostalgiaville.

Aside from the combat, this game looks EXACTLY like PSO. The style is almost 100% the same, and the only two maps they've shown have basically been "Forest 1" and "Caves 1". I don't understand how you can get more similar than it already is, without copy/pasting a game that is extremely outdated. Do you seriously want single button, 3 hit combos again?

Tell me, what exactly is so different about this, when compared to the original PSO?

BIG OLAF
Jul 26, 2011, 11:24 PM
this probably won't be another PSO.

Oh, you caught that huh?

Cinnamon Roll
Jul 26, 2011, 11:24 PM
That was...a blunt way to put it... >_>;

Nostalgia isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when it holds things back, it can be a problem.

Truthfully, nostalgia just doesn't fit with a sequel, IMO. A remake, MAYBE...

Malachite
Jul 26, 2011, 11:28 PM
Exactly.

Tell me, how would this game "feel" if you zoomed the camera in a few feet, and changed the combat from fun looking action, to 3 hit combos?

It would be PSO, with better graphics.

Cinnamon Roll
Jul 26, 2011, 11:31 PM
B-but grafx make da game!!1!1!

...Sorry.

I'd rather have an improved sequel here. Not a remake/remaster. If I want nostalgia, I'll play PSO.

Malachite
Jul 26, 2011, 11:34 PM
I think PSO2 is looking perfect as a sequel to PSO, honestly. The only thing I'm waiting on are MAGS.

Other than that, I think it's exactly what PSO needed to become, aside from a few very very minor aspects.

Cinnamon Roll
Jul 26, 2011, 11:35 PM
I like Mags, but won't be heartbroken if they're gone.

...But it's fun to watch them follow your character.

Agreed.

Malachite
Jul 26, 2011, 11:38 PM
I wouldn't be devastated if they weren't included either, but every little thing makes the game that much deeper, and MAGS are just one more thing that would help the game feel more like PSO (even though I think it already does).

Cinnamon Roll
Jul 26, 2011, 11:39 PM
Of course.

Ririko
Jul 27, 2011, 12:40 AM
New here, been keeping an eye on the discussions for the last few days since PSO2 seems to have rekindled my interest in the series. For anyone saying PSO mechanics are outdated -- sure, I can agree with that, but the main issue is that PSU doesn't feel any better, in fact, for a lot of things it was a downgrade for PSO and mainly what got me well away from it very fast.

Speaking mainly as a FO player, I always found that PSO had a very nice balance between the classes, with each and everyone of them being able to fulfill certain roles very well. The FOs were actually needed and treasured by parties who wanted to go online, because having the support of S/D/J/Z 30 along Resta was quite often a very good thing. Come PSU though, and Forces got "complex", presumably what makes it less "outdated". But I disagree. Throwing in a bunch of grind-y mechanics such as weapon bounded techs and technique grinding did nothing good for FOs, much on the contrary. Couple it with how easy overall PSU felt (looking at you, Scape Dolls), and there we go, playing the role of a support of character became non-existent.

So, yeah, speaking for myself, while I'm not here also asking for "PSO, the HD remake", I just hope that SEGA will realize that you don't really need to add cheap things such as PA grinding to make your game last longer. I always found PSO charming in the way that, unlike other online RPGs, I could pick it up and play it very well, but it also provided countless hours of content for those who wanted to go for a more hardcore playstyle. Sure, some people might say these "hours" sprouted from "endless hunting for certain items with low drop rates" but come now, it was hard to find a more satisfying moment than the one where that red box finally popped up on the ground after you and your friends spent a bunch of time wrecking havoc on monsters in Ragol. And that, to be honest, is all I need from this game. If you had the premise from PSO coupled with some VERY good additions from PSO2 that were announced already such as the random events/hazards and randomized maps when you make a new game, along with the multi-partying system, what else is the game lacking for it to provide hours and hours of fun?

To each his own, of course, but that's just how I feel. A game which has the above and that doesn't fall sterile due to poor management (and here I understand and agree with much of the community's feelings) is bound to be a lot of fun to play. If not, then hell, maybe I'm just not fit for the PS community (and overall online gaming) these days.

Caeruleus
Jul 27, 2011, 01:05 AM
So far I've agreed with the statement that we don't need a clone of PSO, but something that provides a similar experience. I may have come in on the tail-end of Phantasy Star, and I regret that greatly. But I absolutely love this game series for how it feels to me. How the game works when played online, that is the most beautiful aspect in my opinion. Being able to get a bubble tea from down the street, turning on my xbox and putting on my headset to play PSU with my friends was the most amazing thing I have ever felt.

We all picked our rolls for the party, but we didn't exclusively do those things. Our character were built to do a multitude of things, and you know what we gained from it? Funny stories about how De Ragon crushed us at level X or how I could turn into a blue breasted beast. That's what I want in the game, an experience like that which I can share with a community.

So far I think this game will give such an experience. But who knows? Still many a months before the release.

Malachite
Jul 27, 2011, 01:25 AM
So far I've agreed with the statement that we don't need a clone of PSO, but something that provides a similar experience. I may have come in on the tail-end of Phantasy Star, and I regret that greatly. But I absolutely love this game series for how it feels to me. How the game works when played online, that is the most beautiful aspect in my opinion. Being able to get a bubble tea from down the street, turning on my xbox and putting on my headset to play PSU with my friends was the most amazing thing I have ever felt.

We all picked our rolls for the party, but we didn't exclusively do those things. Our character were built to do a multitude of things, and you know what we gained from it? Funny stories about how De Ragon crushed us at level X or how I could turn into a blue breasted beast. That's what I want in the game, an experience like that which I can share with a community.

So far I think this game will give such an experience. But who knows? Still many a months before the release.

Lol, I donno what you're thinking, but the thing people are scared of is that the game might feel/be similar to PSU... Nobody wants that.

Darki
Jul 27, 2011, 01:43 AM
Nobody?

I'd rather have a game more similar to PSU than PSO in many functions, if you ask me.

Malachite
Jul 27, 2011, 01:47 AM
That's cause your brains in backwards, silly.

NoiseHERO
Jul 27, 2011, 01:47 AM
I just want the best of both worlds...

So far so good...

But it feels like they're taking out things from PSU that I liked...

Or they just haven't showcased em yet, because they still trying to earn the trust of their PSO fans. e_e

I'm sick of hearing this "Everything about PSU is concentrated evil and it can die in a fire, but anything from PSO is welcome!" Vibe I'm getting hidden in a lot of people's post. Which is exactly what sparks these black and white PSO vs PSU arguments to begin with. When in general everyone just wants a game everyone can enjoy. :0

Darki
Jul 27, 2011, 01:56 AM
That's cause your brains in backwards, silly.

Lol? At least I have brains, because shunning all the content of a game without even seeing the pros and cons of it is not certainly a show of mental brightness.

Malachite
Jul 27, 2011, 01:59 AM
Sensitive much? I was joking, son.

andpsusuckscrymoar

Darki
Jul 27, 2011, 02:00 AM
Well sorry, daddy.

dias_flac_0g
Jul 27, 2011, 02:04 AM
I just want the best of both worlds...

So far so good...

But it feels like they're taking out things from PSU that I liked...

Or they just haven't showcased em yet, because they still trying to earn the trust of their PSO fans. e_e

I'm sick of hearing this "Everything about PSU is concentrated evil and it can die in a fire, but anything from PSO is welcome!" Vibe I'm getting hidden in a lot of people's post. Which is exactly what sparks these black and white PSO vs PSU arguments to begin with. When in general everyone just wants a game everyone can enjoy. :0

If PSU wasnt such a terrible game when compared to PSO (when it came out which felt like a brand new and AWESOME experience) people wouldnt be saying such things about PSU.

The list of the "wrongs" with PSU far outweights the "goods" big time. No one will argue this at this point especially with PSU at it's current and pathetic state.

If we were on par with the japanese when it comes to psu then maybe it wouldnt be so bad. But at this point anyone who think we will ever catch up is just plain stupid and retarded.

ShadowDragon28
Jul 27, 2011, 02:05 AM
I really hope PSO2's PA's arent a spamfest that eats up PP in 5 seconds. Players should have the option of building up the hit-power of Normal, non-PA attacks and allow people to combo with them instead of having to rely on PA's all the time.

IMO, Flashy PA's are good as a kind of "finishing move" but spamming "Super Spin-jump slash" 10 times just to kill each enemy can get underwhelming and tedious IMO....

Darki
Jul 27, 2011, 02:07 AM
If PSU wasnt such a terrible game when compared to PSO (when it came out which felt like a brand new and AWESOME experience) people wouldnt be saying such things about PSU.

The list of the "wrongs" with PSU far outweights the "goods" big time. No one will argue this at this point especially with PSU at it's current and pathetic state.

If we were on par with the japanese when it comes to psu then maybe it wouldnt be so bad. But at this point anyone who think we will ever catch up is just plain stupid and retarded.

PSU is an example of a good concept and a crap management. The game had potential but they kept shitting it update after update, even in JP version.

The best option would be just to pick the best of each game and work on that as a base.

Malachite
Jul 27, 2011, 02:08 AM
I really hope PSO2's PA's arent a spamfest that eats up PP in 5 seconds. Players should have the option of building up the hit-power of Normal, non-PA attacks and allow people to combo with them instead of having to rely on PA's all the time.

IMO, Flashy PA's are good as a kind of "finishing move" but spamming "Super Spin-jump slash" 10 times just to kill each enemy can get underwhelming and tedious IMO....

I'm pretty sure PSO2's equivalent of PP recharges almost instantly after you stop the combo.

RemiusTA
Jul 27, 2011, 02:12 AM
PSO....outdated mechanics...ughhhhhh....

The GAME was outdated. Old graphics engine, re-textures for outfits, low-poly character models, limited graphical capabilities/memory/space means limited area space/effects/draw distance/enemy count, very simplistic physics engine full of sticky and invisible walls and whatnot. I can go on and on.


The GAMEPLAY is fine, it worked very well, as anyone who's played it (or introduced it to people personally) and liked it can tell you. Adding the ability to jump, strafe, block, ect. ect. would not make PSO modern. It would make PSO a completely different game.

Despite PSO's "outdated mechanics", there are VERY, VERY FEW things that PSU better than PSO in their own respective games. PSU aged faster than PSO, PSU got boring faster than PSO, PSU, despite its size, has LESS CONTENT than PSO, PSU has less holding power than PSO (obviously), and i can go on and on. There is a R E A S O N the pso enthusiasts bitch about wanting PSO2 to adhere to a certian formula.

You know, just like there is a REASON that Japanese RPGs (or jgames in general, really) are garbage these days. It's so bad that even THEY are admitting it now. They keep trying to ditch these "OUTDATED MECHANICS", and as a result are losing what made them good games in the first place.

I blame the "outdated mechanics" argument for the fall of so many freaking franchises and genres that i dont know what to do with myself.

RenzokukenZ
Jul 27, 2011, 02:19 AM
People fear change. It's that simple.

Ecchi
Jul 27, 2011, 02:19 AM
Well the gameplay mechanics are obviously outdated........

So the update is more than welcome imo. And how does adding jumping etc make it a completely different game?! Explain?

RemiusTA
Jul 27, 2011, 02:24 AM
The same way removing walk-to-run, combo timing, combat stance and adding strafing made PSU a completely different game.

Among many other things, of course. If you could Jump in PSO, that means there would probably have been a reason to do it. It wouldn't have completely broken PSO from a gameplay mechanics standpoint, but it would have made many things different.

Ecchi
Jul 27, 2011, 02:25 AM
Why are we talking about Psu? I would like to know how much it would really effect Pso2 ya kno besides the fact that it would still be Pso.....but just more fun maybe?

RemiusTA
Jul 27, 2011, 02:27 AM
I dont really understand what you're asking. But PSO2 and PSO are so far removed at this point that i really see no reason in comparing the two.


However, i will say that the game is closer to PSO than to PSU. It's designing its core gameplay systems in ways more similar to PSO, it seems.

ShadowDragon28
Jul 27, 2011, 02:32 AM
It really kinda saddens me that some people think PSO's gameplay is "outdated". If it's so outdated then why is there thriving communities of players on multiple private servers? *rolls eyes*

I've started playing PSOBB two months ago, after having not played PSO Ep I&II on the GC since 2003... and it certainaly doesn't feel "outdated" to me. The only annoying thing in PSO is going from walk to run is stiff and slow, and that's the ONLY thing that bothersome, everything else is still smooth and plays excellent. The game is still damn fun even 9 yrs later. IMO.

Malachite
Jul 27, 2011, 02:36 AM
Um, the combat is VERY outdated. That much is obvious. It may still be good, and you still may like it, as I do.

But it is outdated. I don't understand how anyone could argue that.

RemiusTA
Jul 27, 2011, 02:37 AM
It really kinda saddens me that some people think PSO's gameplay is "outdated". If it's so outdated then why is there thriving communities of players on multiple private servers? *rolls eyes*

I've started playing PSOBB two months ago, after having not played PSO Ep I&II on the GC since 2003... and it certainaly doesn't feel "outdated" to me. The only annoying thing in PSO is going from walk to run is stiff and slow, and that's the ONLY thing that bothersome, everything else is still smooth and plays excellent. The game is still damn fun even 9 yrs later. IMO.

Thats what im saying.

The game is not outdated, it's just old. People wouldn't buy PSO today not because the gameplay is bad, but because it already came out 10 years ago.

And when it did, it was mother f**ing amazing. PSU came out and got railed for pretty much everything by both critics AND fans alike.



Um, the combat is VERY outdated. That much is obvious. It may still be good, and you still may like it, as I do.

But it is outdated. I don't understand how anyone could argue that.
I can argue it because it does not make any sense. There is a difference between "its been improved upon" and "its outdated". PSO can't possibly be outdated by PSU, because PSU did not improve on ANYTHING from PSO aside from a physics engine and polygon count. Out of all of the things PSU did better, i can't think of a single aspect that was GAMEPLAY related. (as in, combat.)

NoiseHERO
Jul 27, 2011, 02:41 AM
If PSU wasnt such a terrible game when compared to PSO (when it came out which felt like a brand new and AWESOME experience) people wouldnt be saying such things about PSU.

The list of the "wrongs" with PSU far outweights the "goods" big time. No one will argue this at this point especially with PSU at it's current and pathetic state.

If we were on par with the japanese when it comes to psu then maybe it wouldnt be so bad. But at this point anyone who think we will ever catch up is just plain stupid and retarded.

Yeah but I think PSU had way too many improvements and good ideas added since PSO. Even though some things were halfassed, and the WRONG things were taken out. The only thing really left in PSO for me is that atmosphere that's boosted by childhood nostalgia, which died for me a long time ago.

It had a lot of screw ups, and it had enough things that made it seem like "COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME-NO SHUT UP IT'S NOT PSO AT ALL" But in general it all had the same pattern, and it was still Phantasy Star to some people.

PSU wasn't that bad, SEGA just screwed up, but experimenting is still important so I'd say it was a worthy sacrafice. Saying the bad outweighed the good is a horrible reason to say it's okay to let some of PSU's great additions or improvements go to waste.

Fortunately gameplay, setting and character creation wise the game seems fine so far. But I'm kind of worried in terms of community aspects and side stuff that sold PSU for me.(Even if PSU barely had a lot to begin with.) I liked things like going to different lobbies with beaches or snowy mountains, or ripping my hair out in the casino, going animal crossing OCD mode on My Room and I hope they add more things like it.

Anyhow I can already see the "THIS GAME IS PSO EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT PSO, BUT IT CAN BE A LITTLE MORE PSO BECAUSE PSO, PSU IS CANCER, I'M NOT A PSO PURIST" people starting to refill again. I think I'm gonna be doomed browsing these forums until the alpha and Tokyo Game Show...

RemiusTA
Jul 27, 2011, 02:48 AM
No, PSU was not "THAT BAD" at all. I enjoyed it and played it for a good amount of time.

Like i keep saying, from the MOMENT i popped PSU into my PS2 the day it came out, it took me hours to finally realize why i didn't have a smile plastered on my face like i thought i would. And it's because i had realized that the game i popped into my playstation was not PSO. Same 3 hit combo, same monomates, same saber, same sword...but nope, not PSO in the slightest.

Of course, once you get over that, the game was GREAT fun. But i'd never call PSO's mechanics outdated because 1) PSU did not adopt them and 2) Neither PSU, PSP or PSP2 has found an alternative to them.

PSO2 is not going to either. But, because it's a sequel, we're all assuming they'll be taking notes from them. Which is really all they need to do anyway.

ShadowDragon28
Jul 27, 2011, 02:50 AM
No, PSU was not "THAT BAD" at all. I enjoyed it and played it for a good amount of time.

Like i keep saying, from the MOMENT i popped PSU into my PS2 the day it came out, it took me hours to finally realize why i didn't have a smile plastered on my face like i thought i would. And it's because i had realized that the game i popped into my playstation was not PSO. Same 3 hit combo, same monomates, same saber, same sword...but nope, not PSO in the slightest.

Of course, once you get over that, the game was GREAT fun. But i'd never call PSO's mechanics outdated because 1) PSU did not adopt them and 2) Neither PSU, PSP or PSP2 has found an alternative to them.

QFT. Pretty much agreed... Other than relying on having to PA spam enemies all the time, it was annoying that it took over a year and a half just to get an outfit that didn't look lame that I actually liked the look off, and it took forever to get the boards needed to make the few actual good looking weapons in the game that I liked.

Jinketsu
Jul 27, 2011, 05:40 AM
I started playing PSO seriously when it hit the GameCube. I had dabbled a little in the Dreamcast version, but I never owned a Dreamcast so it never took off for me there. I had always enjoyed the gameplay, and looked forward to being able to own my own character, so I got it for GC. I played the crap out of it, too. Episode III was weird, but I enjoyed myself with it, and PSOBB's Episode 4 was a blast.

Later, I got Phantasy Star Universe for PC when it came out. I liked the concept of Photon Arts. I liked how Technics consumed PP from the weapon, giving CASTs the ability to be FOrces. I enjoyed the environments. But for some reason, the game didn't stick with me like PSO did.

I'm not a fanboy of PSO, nor am I as passionate about the series as a lot of you guys are, but I gotta say that something about PSO was done right. It's very outdated in today's standards so I can see why some people can't get into it, but for its time it was just amazing. I think PSU's problem was that it tried too much to imitate PSO, while trying to be as flexible as other popular MMOs out like WoW or FFXI. And it looks like it took them long enough to create an engine that's really going to work in that respect.

I absolutely look forward to PSO2, and hope it doesn't leave a pesky taste in people's mouths to the point of SEGA pulling the plug on the servers like they've done with all their other Phantasy Star online games.

Padium
Jul 29, 2011, 01:05 PM
Speaking mainly as a FO player, I always found that PSO had a very nice balance between the classes, with each and everyone of them being able to fulfill certain roles very well. The FOs were actually needed and treasured by parties who wanted to go online, because having the support of S/D/J/Z 30 along Resta was quite often a very good thing. Come PSU though, and Forces got "complex", presumably what makes it less "outdated". But I disagree. Throwing in a bunch of grind-y mechanics such as weapon bounded techs and technique grinding did nothing good for FOs, much on the contrary. Couple it with how easy overall PSU felt (looking at you, Scape Dolls), and there we go, playing the role of a support of character became non-existent.

This is the thing that bothered me most about PSU. There was no way to play a force, and I ended up playing other classes instead, simply because a force was impossible to play well. I only play spellcasters, except in games where the mechanics for one aren't that great, and I want a PSO style caster, not an impossible to play PSU style one. Hell, I'd even be happy with a WoW, Dragon Age, PS0, or just about any other game's (except Oblivion's) spell casting.

Fayorei
Jul 29, 2011, 01:18 PM
I just hope the game has more PSO mechanics than PSU. I understand that a lot of people feel it's "outdated", but it's also true that PSO has a really strong fanbase still. I think Infinity was a step in the right direction by mixing these two mechanics, but I'd give my kingdom to just go back to the freaking action palette again. I know that techs are *still* linked to weapons, but it's just so incredibly annoying to me.

It's really impossible and crap-feeling that I can't do my old job of HUnewearl hybrid support, that if there wasn't a Force we could buff a decent S/D and help demolish mobs with Barta freeze spells to lock them in place, all while keeping out our actual melee weapons. The balance was in the fact that our melee wasn't as good as a Cast's would be, our defense was lowest, and our spells still weren't up to par with a Force's. But that whole cross utility thing has never really been implemented well since PSO in my opinion. Bring back our ability to freaking do a little support without having to carry a wand as a melee person. Or let us link techs to melee weapons, something!

I also think it had to be a least a tad annoying to play as a full Force in PSU. Melee classes could tear it up with regular attacks, and spam triangle to win. Forces with so many different elements on different maps, had to carry/micromanage a ton of rods/wands to get the spells needed. And that just doesn't seem fair to the class. Not using a unified TP bar also was a shot in the foot with these mechanics. That's the one thing I'm asking for with PSO2 at this point: ONE overall TP bar, because I already know that techs are being linked to weapons again from the recent info. ._.

I'm with most every other person here that has played PSO and PSU's opinion: PSO didn't have outdated game mechanics. Game mechanics are something that stand the test of time, and look how simple some are for the most successful games (Angry Birds, for a small example.) If it ain't broke, don't fix it! I would not mind the updated graphics, crafting system, etc, if Sonic Team didn't screw up the action palette system. We could've kept every other element of PSU, but if they had just linked TP to characters instead of weapons, what a joy that game would be!

In addition, I just want to add that PSU is not a bad game. It was just nowhere near my expectations, and I realized soon after I started playing at launch it was not PSO's sequel. It was just a completely new game, and I'm hoping PSO2 will be PSO's actual successor.

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 30, 2011, 01:30 PM
PSO....outdated mechanics...ughhhhhh....

The GAME was outdated. Old graphics engine, re-textures for outfits, low-poly character models, limited graphical capabilities/memory/space means limited area space/effects/draw distance/enemy count, very simplistic physics engine full of sticky and invisible walls and whatnot. I can go on and on.


The GAMEPLAY is fine, it worked very well, as anyone who's played it (or introduced it to people personally) and liked it can tell you. Adding the ability to jump, strafe, block, ect. ect. would not make PSO modern. It would make PSO a completely different game.

Despite PSO's "outdated mechanics", there are VERY, VERY FEW things that PSU did better than PSO in their own respective games. PSU aged faster than PSO, PSU got boring faster than PSO, PSU, despite its size, has LESS CONTENT than PSO, PSU has less holding power than PSO (obviously), and i can go on and on. There is a R E A S O N the pso enthusiasts bitch about wanting PSO2 to adhere to a certain formula.

You know, just like there is a REASON that Japanese RPGs (or jgames in general, really) are garbage these days. It's so bad that even THEY are admitting it now. They keep trying to ditch these "OUTDATED MECHANICS", and as a result are losing what made them good games in the first place.

I blame the "outdated mechanics" argument for the fall of so many freaking franchises and genres that i don't know what to do with myself.
I quoted Remius because I want more people to read this ^, well said Remius.:yes:

Honestly I wish more people got a chance to play PSO so they can understand this (surprisingly civil) discussion, instead of classifying certain people just for having an understanding of what a great game mechanics really are.

All I want is for PSO2 to be solid, I am going to go out and spend a lot of money on a gaming PC solely for this game. I'm probably going to sell lots of other games and forgo buying other great console games that I have been waiting for. But as long as I see some remnant of solid PSO game mechanics in PSO2 then I will feel it's worth my time and money. Because I know what I like, but more importantly I know what has worked well before and it will work well again.