Rappies and Forces

[Reksanden]

You've posted your fair share of goofy, baseless banter, you know. So have I. No one is innocent at this point, really.

I Am!!!

[Angelo]

What are we arguing about now?

[Reksanden]

What are we arguing about now?

Not a clue.

[r00tabaga]

Nope.
Yeah but having more "PSU-style clothes" just for the sake of having MORE CUSTOMIZATION in PSO2 is 'tarded. I'd rather be able to custom choose my color palette for the 7 or 8 different HUmar oufits than have 50 space hoodie/jeans/sneaker combo's with horrible color schemes.

Or how about adding some much needed ethnicity into this series. I have a black ranger in PSPo2 and he looks like a white dude with a bad tan. No asian models either...AND IT'S A JAPANESE GAME! Don't even get me started on hair choices. Most are laughable and they have never been able to do bald heads or beards correctly. They are just painted on beards & Newmans are excluded all together from facial hair.

[RemiusTA]

What are we arguing about now?

....nothing?

I can understand excluding newmans from some features like facial hair or certian hairstyles (they are a different race afterall), but yeah, the different ethnic styles are pretty lame. Anything dealing with blacks are pretty halfassed and look kind of odd, but that's only because they didnt really seem to put an effort into correctly modeling the features right.

Bottom line:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/7ac-rude-1.jpg


Yes, Sega, black people can have facial hair, have a strong facial structure, be bald, and still look like fucking sexy badasses. Get creative, please.

Although, i COMPLETELY understand that they may just not be used to modeling these kinds of facial features.

[/SPOILER-BOX]

Although none of this matters, because the facial structures of the characters SO FAR seem to almost be less detailed than the PSU faces. PSO2 models look alot more "anime" (flat) and thus will lose alot more features.


I always just chose Newman for my dark skinned characters, honestly. It always seems to look much better on them, IMO.

[Dongra]

What are we arguing about now?
Nothing yet. Do you want to argue about something?

[Kent]

I'd rather have more limited clothing options than have Super Soldier Pretty Jailbait Space Princess outfits everywhere and completely ruin the atomosphere. It is possible to have so much customization that it can compromise a gameplay experience though - you'd have to be stupid to think otherwise - but to the surprise of some people, it actually varies between games (primarily, it most-adversely-affects PvP-focused games, whereas in PvE-focused games, the worst it'll generally get is people making their characters look like distractingly-distasteful and out-of-place jackasses).

I think ideally, all of the clothing options they could give should be templates with user-customizable colors to them (and possibly accessory parts, like the design of gloves and pauldrons and whatnot)... Because there's a huge problem, particularly with PSU/Z, where there will be a clothing set or character uniform that looks cool enough, but has nary a decent color scheme. Also, it's not hard to add in color customization for characters. They've been doing it for hair since the first PSO, and it's been in much older games for a while beforehand, so there's no real reason for them not to be able to do it.

...Anyway, back on topic: I like seeing a FOmar, and I like seeing a thing get whacked with a rod. Now lets see someone casting techniques with a non-rod/wand/cane-like weapon equipped, and we'll be off on the right foot. Weapons dedicated to and required to cast only hurt games.

[RemiusTA]

I really hope Fomar keeps his whole "Im a rich pretty boy, my melee attack is a bitchslap, and i singe anyone who gives me backtalk" demeanor.


Speaking of which.....who wants to bet Unarmed melee has been removed X_X



I'd rather have more limited clothing options than have Super Soldier Pretty Jailbait Space Princess outfits everywhere and completely ruin the atomosphere



HERE IT COMES

[Wayu]

I think ideally, all of the clothing options they could give should be templates with user-customizable colors to them (and possibly accessory parts, like the design of gloves and pauldrons and whatnot)... Because there's a huge problem, particularly with PSU/Z, where there will be a clothing set or character uniform that looks cool enough, but has nary a decent color scheme. Also, it's not hard to add in color customization for characters. They've been doing it for hair since the first PSO, and it's been in much older games for a while beforehand, so there's no real reason for them not to be able to do it.

...Anyway, back on topic: I like seeing a FOmar, and I like seeing a thing get whacked with a rod. Now lets see someone casting techniques with a non-rod/wand/cane-like weapon equipped, and we'll be off on the right foot. Weapons dedicated to and required to cast only hurt games.
^ That.

And I really hope they remove linked techniques as well, but who knows?

-Wayu

[•Col•]

^ That.



That's exactly what I suggested in my "more customization" with class-specific clothing post. :l

[Ishia]

You'd "rather" there not be that stuff, but for the 1000th fucking time, its a Japanese game, there will be more customization with lots of weeaboo, frilly, bikini-princess shit. Deal with it x1000 combo.

[BIG OLAF]

I'd rather have more limited clothing options than have Super Soldier Pretty Jailbait Space Princess outfits everywhere andcompletely ruin the atmosphere.

Well, aerosol cans are completely ruining the Earth's atmosphere, but we still use them. Food for thought.

*waits for someone to look up the Wikipedia article on the Ozone Layer just to try and combat my obvious joke post*

[Wayu]

That's exactly what I suggested in my "more customization" with class-specific clothing post. :l
What I understood from your post is that you wanted ONLY class-specific clothes. That's not what Kent said.

-Wayu

[Niloklives]

That's exactly what I suggested in my "more customization" with class-specific clothing post. :l

You just got trolled

[RemiusTA]

You'd "rather" there not be that stuff, but for the 1000th fucking time, its a Japanese game, there will be more customization with lots of weeaboo, frilly, bikini-princess shit. Deal with it x1000 combo.

I F*ING CALLED IT wheres my prize

[Niloklives]

Being right is its own reward.

[redroses]

As long as they get rid of PSU's weird "underwear" selection I am happy, because I, to this day really do not understand what the hell it was even there for. The colors were also disgusting.

Anyway, having some class restricted costumes wouldn't be so bad. It's really not hard to come up with a lot of different outfits that even if they would all be class restricted nobody would feel left out.

PSU did in fact have a lot of bad clothing options. So many of the clothes, especially for females, were more a casual look then anything else. PSU just has a very weird clothing direction. I don't find it bad, as I do like a lot of the PSU clothes (actually I like a lot of the PSP2/i clothes more then those of PSU), but so many of them just don't feel right to battle in. And eventhough there were so many, you was still very restricted for certain looks you wanted to give your character because a lot of outfits were just to casual. Making a character that really looks like a knight or fencer is impossible (I think even still now, except with maybe the Rosenritter). Or making one look like a Kung Fu master or something etc.

I just hope for PSO2 that they make a lot more of fighting looking clothes. Having some casual clothes in is good too, but they shouldn't be the norm.

[Pillan]

There has always been a very simple solution to deal with clothes you don't like - don't buy them and don't wear them. And if it offends you so much that you can't stand to be around people wearing them, don't associate with them and kick them out your group.

I really don't care what the clothes look like as long as there is at least one set that I like that I can wear as whatever character(s) I choose. For the rest, I will just use the above solution.

[r00tabaga]

I say get rid of line shields all together and thus removing "space clothes" & bikinis. I wish I was part of this project! =)

[Tyreek]

This is gonna be interesting seeing what you people will complain about when this game actually does release.

[Milla]

Meh what a disappointment these new derpy rappies are totally gonna ruin the atmosphere of my elite space warriors quest to save the universe.

[Akaimizu]

^ "Get Really Real!!" They'll be great. They're big. You just have a bigger universe to save, that's all.

[Zyrusticae]

PSU had a more "casual" clothing selection purely because the line shield technology made any sort of armor completely and purely redundant.

I thought that was pretty damn obvious. And personally, I think it was genious. The only problem is that the clothing selection itself is lacking, not the fact that you could fight in your skivvies at 100% effectiveness. Immersion cannot be broken by non-protective clothing in combat situations when every character is protected by an invisible personal body shield that makes them able to resist attacks that would instantly kill any normal human being.

[•Col•]

What I understood from your post is that you wanted ONLY class-specific clothes. That's not what Kent said.

-Wayu

You didn't understand my post at all then. -_-

Must've been blinded by bias.

[Malachite]

PSU had a more "casual" clothing selection purely because the line shield technology made any sort of armor completely and purely redundant.

I thought that was pretty damn obvious. And personally, I think it was genious. The only problem is that the clothing selection itself is lacking, not the fact that you could fight in your skivvies at 100% effectiveness. There is absolutely no immersion to break when every character is protected by an invisible personal body shield that makes them able to resist attacks that would instantly kill any normal human being.

Genius*

So what you're saying is that any game that features characters with above human power have no immersion whatsoever? 'Cause that's ridiculous.

[Zyrusticae]

Wow.

That's so wrong, I...

Wow.

Okay, editing that post. NOW it should make sense.

[BIG OLAF]

Immersion cannot be broken by non-protective clothing in combat situations when every character is protected by an invisible personal body shield that makes them able to resist attacks that would instantly kill any normal human being.

Even though what you say is a valid point, I know plenty of people around here that would/will disagree with you regardless. So, prepare yourself.

[Akaimizu]

Actually, maybe the majority won't. It usually came down to outfit choices more than anything. People want *inclusive* stuff not *exclusive* stuff. I think most of them would be fine with the various outfit choices if they were not done so in the idea of excluding all the more serious pieces. So I think they have more issues with the idea that the choices they would wear in the game (including series-specific style clothing) were being *kicked out* by the "other anime" outfits they don't care to use. If we had copious amounts of both, I think very few would bring it up.

[yoshiblue]

Is basicly conflicts with peoples morals and how they are use to playing video games. Sure it cool at first but then sometimes those cool things get annoying fast or bland. May as well just copy team ninja and put "extra" physics while their at it for ultimate super fun time.

[Akaimizu]

May as well just copy team ninja and put "extra" physics while their at it for ultimate super fun time.

Might as well, since everybody else, including Namco, Sega, and the rest did. Of course, all of this was After SNK's initial aspect was copied by Tecmo in 3d. (Just amazed how Team Ninja took the credit for what SNK already did. But then again, SNK wasn't that good at 3d, so they couldn't do what they did in 3D, first.)

[Kent]

And I really hope they remove linked techniques as well, but who knows?
Whoever thought binding techniques to weapons was a good idea in the first place needs to be fired immediately. He obviously has no idea how to gauge the impact of design decisions. I'll take his job.


May as well just copy team ninja and put "extra" physics while their at it for ultimate super fun time.
I thought it was interesting how they decided to go with obviously-boned, pre-fabricated animation for the female extremities in PSU. It just looks so bad and unnatural - actual in-game jiggle physics are actually pretty simple to do, though it's probably far past the programming skills of the team behind it, considering how horribly-inefficient the game's graphical engine is.

[yoshiblue]

If they could make jiggling animations then I want hair that flows in the wind so I can pull a Fabio lol.

[landman]

Seems like I was the only PSO player who wanted a bikini swimsuit in "Resting at the Beach", maybe because I was also a Shining Force fan?

[RemiusTA]

Well, aerosol cans are completely ruining the Earth's atmosphere, but we still use them. Food for thought.

*waits for someone to look up the Wikipedia article on the Ozone Layer just to try and combat my obvious joke post*

If anyone has to wiki the Ozone layer, they seriously need to start paying attention more in school. That's pathetic.



Might as well, since everybody else, including Namco, Sega, and the rest did. Of course, all of this was After SNK's initial aspect was copied by Tecmo in 3d. (Just amazed how Team Ninja took the credit for what SNK already did. But then again, SNK wasn't that good at 3d, so they couldn't do what they did in 3D, first.)

Team ninja PROBABLY was not the first to do this, and even if they were, if they didn't it would have gotten done anyway. Breasts aren't made out of concrete. Team Ninja only got POPULAR with it because it's completely, completely overdone. Why would a female with huge breasts (that can ONLY be a disadvantage in a fight) go into battle without them tied down/a bra on? Women wear sports bras to the Gym for a reason.




I thought it was interesting how they decided to go with obviously-boned, pre-fabricated animation for the female extremities in PSU. It just looks so bad and unnatural - actual in-game jiggle physics are actually pretty simple to do, though it's probably far past the programming skills of the team behind it, considering how horribly-inefficient the game's graphical engine is.

...Sonic Adventure 2 had boob physics; it was made in the year 2000 on the dreamcast. In fact, i believe they had applied physics to Rouges ears too, as well as Sonic/Shadow's quills. The Chao were also pretty much 100% built this way, which is why they looked so damn cute half the time. PSO had similar simple physics applied to certian accessories on characters heads. (Fonewearl's pom-poms, for example.)

It was probably just a decision to leave out due to complications, which there definitely could have been thanks to costume/character customization. It could have been any number of reasons why this was left out.

Sonic Team is more than capable. I always attributed this games' shortcomings to a bad development cycle. If you look at some of the earlier videos of PSU v1, it had alot of little things presentation wise that were removed from the game. (like seperate hit effects for weapons)







Immersion cannot be broken by non-protective clothing in combat situations when every character is protected by an invisible personal body shield that makes them able to resist attacks that would instantly kill any normal human being.

True, and not true. I think Immersion is harder to break with that principle in mind, but it very much has a limit to how far you can take it, just like anything does.

Simply put, going to battle in a bikini or a miniskirt (regardless of how powerful your protection is), there is always more appropriate clothing to wear that would benefit you in combat more. Of course there are gameplay aspects to keep in mind, but i would definitely assume the more military-looking outfits in the game (AMF, Guardless, SPF, ect) would provide more protection than the more simple outfits.

But honestly if you guys look at most of the PSU / AotI outfits, none of them are completely "CASUAL". They definitely have a more casual edge to them, but they fit the lineshield concept pretty well.

[Hrith]

The only thing I've noticed is 'Sonic Adventure 2 had boob physics'. Not a bad quote.

[Akaimizu]

Team ninja PROBABLY was not the first to do this, and even if they were, if they didn't it would have gotten done anyway. Breasts aren't made out of concrete. Team Ninja only got POPULAR with it because it's completely, completely overdone. Why would a female with huge breasts (that can ONLY be a disadvantage in a fight) go into battle without them tied down/a bra on? Women wear sports bras to the Gym for a reason.

That's why I mentioned SNK. You obviously never saw their breast physics before DOA came out. They were completely overdone in precisely the same fashion as shown in DOA1. The same level of over exaggerated, slow underwater style flowy motion. Just in 2D. If I should use one such simple example. Take the girls of KOF 94 and 95, arcade (all versions) and Japanese versions of the home releases. Take note that SNK had this before those games came out in Fatal Fury. And did so afterwards. However, you can look those two up easily online, and see for yourself.

In fact, due to having the same outfit, we surmised that Kasumi was borrowing that exact look and motion from Mai Shiranui.

[RemiusTA]

Wait what...sprite boob physics? Is that even possible?

You mean, they just made it a point to animate the "assets" in the sprites? (See Litchi Faye Ling) If so, i think it doesn't really apply...

Dead or Alive (1996) included the physics, but Soul Calibur (i think it was like 1998 did not. It's just kind of something to enhance the presentation a bit.

However, im pretty sure Dead or Alive only did it because it was (and still 110% is) a huge selling point in the franchise. Although i wont knock it, because Dead or Alive 4 is actually pretty damn cool.



The only thing I've noticed is 'Sonic Adventure 2 had boob physics'. Not a bad quote.
SA2 was one helluva game.

PSU is probably one of the worst examples of Sonic Team's graphical engine capabilities (trumped only by Shadow the Hedgehog, which was unacceptable), even though if the game was released a year or two before it did it would have looked amazing. PSU still made neat use of the photon bloom effect, and the character models were pretty well done IMO.

[Kent]

Wait what...sprite boob physics? Is that even possible?

You mean, they just made it a point to animate the "assets" in the sprites? (See Litchi Faye Ling) If so, i think it doesn't really apply...
I'm pretty sure he's just talking about sprite animation frames... Which are completely different, and wholly-irrelevant to this discussion.

Though I suppose breast physics in a sprite is theoretically possible, should some of the technology behind the absysmal-except-for-the-soundtrack mess that is Unlimited SaGa, which used sprites in conjunction with 3D animation techniques to bend and morph sprites in physically-sensible ways (supposedly - for the most part, you couldn't really tell the game was using this technology at all, generally because almost everything was abstracted into oblivion).

[Niloklives]

That's why I mentioned SNK. You obviously never saw their breast physics before DOA came out. They were completely overdone in precisely the same fashion as shown in DOA1. The same level of over exaggerated, slow underwater style flowy motion. Just in 2D. If I should use one such simple example. Take the girls of KOF 94 and 95, arcade (all versions) and Japanese versions of the home releases. Take note that SNK had this before those games came out in Fatal Fury. And did so afterwards. However, you can look those two up easily online, and see for yourself.

In fact, due to having the same outfit, we surmised that Kasumi was borrowing that exact look and motion from Mai Shiranui.

Yeah but the snk animation was fluid and while exaggerated, moved with the way the body moved(because it was sprites...no boob physics, just animation). it was still absurd, but it was hypnotic lol. DoA1 was just ludicrous. you took a step forward and you swear the girl's tits would smack her in the face and knock her out if she took one more step.

[NoiseHERO]

I'm starting to feel reminded of anime and manga...

Where people that are new to it are completely biased against anything with a single panty shot.

"It's a good anim-BUT IT HAS ECCHI, SO IT SUCKS, GARBAGE, BOO!!"

[ARASHIKAGE]

Yeah but the snk animation was fluid and while exaggerated, moved with the way the body moved(because it was sprites...no boob physics, just animation). it was still absurd, but it was hypnotic lol. DoA1 was just ludicrous. you took a step forward and you swear the girl's tits would smack her in the face and knock her out if she took one more step.

Haha so right.

I welcome it in my video games as long as it's done classy or done comical. They need to pick a side, "stay in middle of road get squashed".

[Itoshi]

I'm starting to feel reminded of anime and manga...

Where people that are new to it are completely biased against anything with a single panty shot.

"It's a good anim-BUT IT HAS ECCHI, SO IT SUCKS, GARBAGE, BOO!!"

I'm not new to anime at all and I don't really have any tolerance for fan service. Just gets on my nerves.

Giant mecha fan service...now that is something I can enjoy.

[yoshiblue]

I'm not new to anime at all and I don't really have any tolerance for fan service. Just gets on my nerves.

Giant mecha fan service...now that is something I can enjoy.

So you enjoy giant mecha panty shots? lulz

Just kidding.

[NoiseHERO]

Psht, I do.

Tis hilarious.

The only time I truly find a little bit of fanservice annoying is when they go overboard. Like say.. Agent Najica, or ToLoveRu where they made an entire OVA based on going to the beach and showing the girls moaning of laughing while running around half naked (I don't know what that guy see's in 11-14 year old girls either)

But PSU? that had like, standard level fanservice. :\

In fact, BECAUSE it's japan, you're a funny guy if you think PSO2 won't have fan-service. The rappies are already cuter and the girls are already wearing cut in half short-shorts, anyway.

[RemiusTA]

But revealing female outfits is a staple of every MMO on the planet.


Japan....all i gotta say about japan; your problems with selling games in the west? It's only your fault. It didn't used to be this way, and although it's obvious that it's changing, Japanese games wern't always like this....

....at least i dont remember them being that way.



Edit:

Hey, we aren't talking about rappies or forces anymore, but looking at those pictures, specifically the mountians in the rappy picture...

It's pretty obvious it isn't in the original Forest stage shown, but in the backdrop of the forest stage, you could see a neighboring planet. You guys think its possible that these screenshots are on a different planet? Or just a different area?

[NoiseHERO]

It does look like the terrain is different and a little less busy, with more higher grounds(Which I hope won't function as a forcefield, otherwise I'm sure we'll be running around in boxes again) n' stuff. But it could also just be that everything we've seen so far is a mess with scattered hints that we have to put together and we just couldn't see the mountains and planets before because they've improved it.

[ARASHIKAGE]

It's pretty obvious it isn't in the original Forest stage shown, but in the backdrop of the forest stage, you could see a neighboring planet. You guys think its possible that these screenshots are on a different planet? Or just a different area?

I think they are going for that PSO Forest feel, that might even be one of the first basic levels. I do think it's a on a different planet than Ragol possibly a neighboring one (it might be Oracle). The backdrops are very cool to look at, I love it when map designers put detail into backgrounds, I can't wait to see more.


Hey are we back on topic? I've been tricked!

[NoiseHERO]

WAIT NO! WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?

The first thing the said was that this isn't Ragols solar system!! O_o

[GCoffee]

What if they are exploring the Algo star system to find out more about that Mutt Ditts Poum stuff and Dark Falz? I think they would have more than enough reason.

In that case I would say the forest is on a (recovered) Motav while the planet in the background is Dezo. Wouldnt that be awesome? It would be awesome :wacko:

[BIG OLAF]

What if they are exploring the Algo star system to find out more about that Mutt Ditts Poum stuff and Dark Falz? I think they would have more than enough reason.

What do you mean "find out more about Muut Ditts Poumn?" It's been settled for a while what it means.

[GCoffee]

What do you mean "find out more about Muut Ditts Poumn?" It's been settled for a while what it means.

If you found a book describing the most delicious cake in history, you would still want to actually find the cake to see for yourself, no?

Excuse the terrible analogy.

[BIG OLAF]

If you found a book describing the most delicious cake in history, you would still want to actually find the cake to see for yourself, no?

Excuse the terrible analogy.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, but all righty.

[GCoffee]

They know it describes the three plantes of Algo, but knowing it does not keep them from going there, does it? (Even though I don't know where in PSO's story the meaning of those words were ever found out?)

The first trailer mentioned the question 'Why is the great light no longer here?', which could have hinted at Oracle arriving there finding two devasteted planets, the great light being the driving force of the Algo system.

[landman]

What if they are exploring the Algo star system to find out more about that Mutt Ditts Poum stuff and Dark Falz? I think they would have more than enough reason.

In that case I would say the forest is on a (recovered) Motav while the planet in the background is Dezo. Wouldnt that be awesome? It would be awesome :wacko:

It can't be Motavia, because without forced climate control Motavia is a dry planet, and it can not be Dezolis, because Motavia does not orbit Dezolis, they are two separate planets, and for their respective temperatures, they are as far to each other as Venus, Earth and Mars. That's why Gurhal System is a joke in astrophysics, they could not be that close without affecting their respective orbits every time the unification point is reached.

I agree it would be interesting to reach Algol though, so far they hinted the logo hints to the planets we will have to explore...

[GCoffee]

I could argue that they perhaps built another weather control system eventually, but the oribiting issue....

[Malachite]

Guys, I have the answer to all your astronomic questions and speculations right here:

it's a videogame.

[NoiseHERO]

I don't see why everyone assumes SEGA always has to time travel backwards for this game to be a phantasy star game anyway. ]:

[landman]

Because Phantasy Star games were always a one single story and place, unlike most games in the genre.

[NoiseHERO]

Technically they're just a bunch of different stories that are vaguely connected, at least since the online games...

Then connecting pso-psu and pso2 seemed like a last minute fan hype plan. I wouldn't just think whatever I want and jump on to the idea that we're running around on planets from classic PS or something...

Looks like so far, even though Bakai wants to please all of the fans with a lot of obvious elements. They're still making a whole new game, story and setting.

[landman]

A new story does not mean it has to be totally separated from a whole, Phantasy Star Zero has it's own story but it's a true sequel to PSO, many players will ignore it, and many more will enjoy that kind of connection.

[Varon]

Just a note if it hasn't been shared yet the PSØ Rappies with the big googly eyes were in the press release.

If you doubt me look at the 2nd press release video starting at 6.53-7.13 Code Rescue