Weapon Element VS PA Level+

[DPShiro]

What is better?

For example i have a Beast FF i play for fun, would it be better to take Knuckles to lv 50 or lv 48+Element?

I know that the different PA's get different boosts after lv 41+.

[Keilyn]

The way I determine things is very different and systematic.

If you run into a map and your PA at level 40 kills with the same speed as with your PA at 50, then there is no reason to increase it past 40. I measure by combo chains for hit reduction. PAs usually get more ATA going from 40 to 50.

The two really go hand in hand you know...

If you love a weapon enough to take it to 48 - 50, you might as well go hunt a set of 40%+ weapons as well. You'll like the feeling of having a 46 - 50% Weapon and a level 48 - 50 PA on your back.

[TheAstarion]

Element+ almost always gives more mileage than PA+, but I can't resist maxing out the PA levels of my favourites. So, my WT has Whip +10 & element, and claws +2 & element. That leaves another 3... probably gonna be claw levels. Maybe right hand +.

Depends on what else you're taking, or planning on taking. Me, I'd go with both, and let another weapon take the hit in levels.

And yep, if you're focusing in one weapon above all else, you'll definitely get the mileage out of all the upgrades. Also, elemental weapon attack style stacks with element+ when calculating damage, so effectively you get +10% for 17AP +2 for each additional backup weapon.

[DPShiro]

The way I determine things is very different and systematic.

If you run into a map and your PA at level 40 kills with the same speed as with your PA at 50, then there is no reason to increase it past 40. I measure by combo chains for hit reduction. PAs usually get more ATA going from 40 to 50.

The two really go hand in hand you know...

If you love a weapon enough to take it to 48 - 50, you might as well go hunt a set of 40%+ weapons as well. You'll like the feeling of having a 46 - 50% Weapon and a level 48 - 50 PA on your back.

I only use 50%, in rare occasions 46% like my Light Twin Falclaws.

I know that Twin Claws PA's get more % increase from 40->50 than for example Twin Sabers.

I now have this setup (M Beast FF)

Twin Sabers PA+5
Twin Sabers Element+
Twin Claws PA+1
Twin Claws Element+
Knuckles PA+1
Knuckles Element+

I considering taking away the element parts and get more PA LV+ for Twin Claws.

[bloodflowers]

Element+ is better than PA+ or LH/RH+ due to the way multipliers work.

[xRedd206x]

So will handgun element be better than increasing it +10.

[DPShiro]

Thank you for the answers.

Was curious since i saw this a while back;


Base ATP+ Lv 5
Base DFP+ Lv 3
FCP Lv 2
JA+ Lv 2
JC+ Lv 2
Twin Saber PA+ Lv 5
Slicer PA+ Lv 4
Twin Handgun PA+ Lv 1

Elemental Arms
Core Shield
Avenge

That is all for AF.

And \o/!!! Yay multiple perspectives!

No Weapon Element there^

[Ph4nt0M2011]

Defiantly take knuckles to 50. They level up better then Element+. I have all 50 pa for knucks on Beast FF.

[bloodflowers]

So will handgun element be better than increasing it +10.

Depends which PA level. For example, going from 20-22 which costs 1 AP allocation is better than Element+ because handgun bullets jump elementally each tier, but Element+ is better than 22-24.

For the guy with the knuckles - yeah, 10 levels of PA probably is better than Element+, but then you're comparing 5 used AP vs 1 used AP. 4x PA+ + 1x Element+ is better than 5x PA+ every single time.

[desturel]

For example i have a Beast FF i play for fun, would it be better to take Knuckles to lv 50 or lv 48+Element?

Knuckles are better to take to 50 if you use Ikk Hikk. It's better to take them to 48+ element if you use Robado. So which knuckle art do you use more often? I'm guessing Robado since you are a FF (Jabroga over Ikk Hikk for most boss fights?) in which case I would suggest 48+element.

[bloodflowers]

Knuckles are better to take to 50 if you use Ikk Hikk. It's better to take them to 48+ element if you use Robado. So which knuckle art do you use more often? I'm guessing Robado since you are a FF (Jabroga over Ikk Hikk for most boss fights?) in which case I would suggest 48+element.

This is the one exception in the game, nice spot. Even with Ikk Hikk the Element+ is nearly as good, and of course helps the other PAs more. It's because when you're doing multiplication, increasing smaller factors helps more than increasing larger factors. For example - 2x8 = 16, 2x9 = 18, but 3x8 = 24. To demonstrate this, here's the ATP/ELE multipliers for Ikk Hikk with a 50% weapon going from level 40 to 42, or adding E+:

Part 1
Normal: 4.62 * 1.36 = 6.28
PA+: 4.70 * 1.36 = 6.39
E+: 4.62 * 1.38 = 6.37

Part 2
Normal: 3.3 * 1.36 = 4.49
PA+: 3.36 * 1.36 = 4.57
E+: 3.3 * 1.38 = 4.55

Part 3
Normal: 5 * 1.36 = 6.8
PA+: 5.1 * 1.36 = 6.94
E+: 5 * 1.38 = 6.9

Note due to the final /5 on damage calculations, the gains aren't as good as they look in all cases, for example the 4% in part 3 turns into 0.8%. If you only use Ikk Hikk though PA+ is better, just (and there's the accuracy). I put up those numbers so people can understand a bit more about how elements and PA strength work together, such that a 3% increase to element is nearly as good as 10% on a strong PA. The difference is even smaller if you compare 48-50 vs E+, but most people don't have the PA+ allocation to specialise that far on Forte classes.

[DPShiro]

Thank you k/bit, always nice to see numbers :)

But this makes me wonder even more why Mr B choose that above? Wouldnt Element+ be better and leaving Twin Sabers at 48?

[TheAstarion]

I think that was indeed a while back, before elements were available. Element boosts give the biggest returns, and the same guy making he same choice now would pick element+ most likely.

Better still would be to not take as many slicer levels, and have element+ for twinsaber, slicer and twinguns. Big boost to all, while still retaining the level 50 on the weapon of choice.

[bloodflowers]

Thank you k/bit, always nice to see numbers :)

Well, I'd have answered it quicker elsewhere ;)