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Phinalphantasy
Jul 22, 2011, 01:52 AM
How should PAs and TECHs be treated in PSO2?
PSO's system, with Fluids and character-bound TP?
Or PSU's system, with Charges and weapon-bound PP?

Angelo
Jul 22, 2011, 01:54 AM
Neither.

PsPo2's system.

Mike
Jul 22, 2011, 01:54 AM
Have you seen the gameplay video?

BIG OLAF
Jul 22, 2011, 01:55 AM
Well, there's a PP bar in the PSO2 gameplay trailer. That pretty much confirms that PSO2 will have a recharging PP bar, much like PSP2/i. So, I'm sure techs will draw from the PP pool, as well.

Angelo
Jul 22, 2011, 01:56 AM
Well, there's a PP bar in the PSO2 gameplay trailer. That pretty much confirms that PSO2 will have a recharging PP bar, much like PSP2/i. So, I'm sure techs will draw from the PP pool, as well.

Thank God.

Seth Astra
Jul 22, 2011, 01:58 AM
Just because there was a PP bar, doens't mean it'll use the PSP2 system. After all, PSZ used PSO's system, just with TP renamed to PP.

BIG OLAF
Jul 22, 2011, 02:02 AM
Just because there was a PP bar, doens't mean it'll use the PSP2 system. After all, PSZ used PSO's system, just with TP renamed to PP.

What else would it be for, then? If you look, the bars function in very much the same way as PSP2/i. Taken from the PSO2 Info Thread:


The PP system from PSP2 returns, in which the PP bar is tied to your character rather than the weapons. It also seems like your max PP may rise after each time you level up;
[spoiler-box]http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss135/iRathiest/Screenshot2011-04-30at63542PM.png
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss135/iRathiest/Screenshot2011-04-30at63617PM.png
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss135/iRathiest/Screenshot2011-04-30at63607PM.png[/spoiler-box]


Also, if you watch in the gameplay trailer, every time the Hunter uses an attack, the PP bar goes down.

Angelo
Jul 22, 2011, 02:04 AM
I really thought the PSPo2 system was perfect. I really don't see how they could deviate from that without botching it up completely.

Seth Astra
Jul 22, 2011, 02:05 AM
@Olaf: I wasn't saying it was for anything else. I'm simply saying that, just because it's labled PP, it doesn't mean it uses the PSU or PSP2 systems, and it could be using the PSO system, as PSZ did. The bar increasing with level ups only seems to support this, since that was a PSO system thing, not a PSP2 system thing.

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 22, 2011, 02:06 AM
I voted for the TP fluid system because you can modify it for different classes. If you want to give female techers more mind power but still have a balance for male techers. Then you can give male techers more TP so they don't have to recharge as much. I believe you can do a lot more with the TP system, and that's my opinion.

If photon arts return, (and it sure looks like they are) then you will need a PP system. If so then a combination of both would be nice to see, but I really have no idea how that could function.

Vashyron
Jul 22, 2011, 02:07 AM
Again, it's already been shown that it's PP that recharges like PSP2.

Can safely be said that it's neither like PSU or PSO though.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 03:00 AM
I really thought the PSPo2 system was perfect. I really don't see how they could deviate from that without botching it up completely.


It definitely had a few flaws.

The biggest problem with the recharging bar is limiting powerful attacks. IMO it works great for Hunters and i guess maybe Rangers, but it doesn't work at all for Forces. In PSP2 it eventually got to the point where Forces couldn't do a 3 chain + 3 finishers without being empty and getting killed.

PSP2i, im pretty sure forces were just brokesauce on there. On the demo, i literally had to TRY to get my Force to run out of PP.



The TP bar was hella annoying in PSO, but it did an absolutely wonderful job of forcing the Force class into TP conservation. However, after a while it became troublesome to keep it up, which kind of really discourages you from even using certian spells.


IMO, Hunters should use PP, Forces should use TP, and Rangers...i dont know, perhaps an Ammo meter? They reload now (obviously for 3-hit combo purposes, forget that button spam garbage from the other ones), but also have special attacks as well.



Who knows! My guess; there's a reason they refused to show the HUD bar for the Force characters.

Tetsaru
Jul 22, 2011, 03:13 AM
I'd prefer PSO's TP system to where it's character-bound instead of weapon-bound. Not being able to use a move that involves swinging your weapon around just because it "runs out of gas" seems stupid to me, but if your character him/herself "runs out of gas," gets tired, has a headache/can't concentrate properly - that makes more sense to me.

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 22, 2011, 03:57 AM
I'd prefer PSO's TP system to where it's character-bound instead of weapon-bound. Not being able to use a move that involves swinging your weapon around just because it "runs out of gas" seems stupid to me, but if your character him/herself "runs out of gas," gets tired, has a headache/can't concentrate properly - that makes more sense to me.

^ Yes exactly.

And when it's character bound it makes it more interesting because it can grow as your character grows. Different growth rates for different races, genders, classes. Now your character has some uniqueness and the game has one more way to balance them again.

Edit: It gives forces an opportunity to use TP stealing weapons (Geist) to save on the cost of replenishing TP. (And no that's not the same as PP) It wouldn't make much sense if the bullets of your gun used PP to try and replenish your other weapons PP (something impossible in PSU). Those that have played PSO understand this concept. Call it PP if you want but It should be bound to the character.

Angelo
Jul 22, 2011, 05:23 AM
Edit: It gives forces an opportunity to use TP stealing weapons (spirit) to save on the cost of replenishing TP. (And no that's not the same as PP) It wouldn't make much sense if the bullets of your gun used PP to try and replenish your other weapons PP (something impossible in PSU). Those that have played PSO understand this concept. Call it PP if you want but It should be bound to the character.

Or it could just be like PSP2 and have weapon combos help charge your PP faster. Considering Forces can once again use their weapons for something more than magic, I can see this happening.

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 22, 2011, 02:06 PM
Or it could just be like PSP2 and have weapon combos help charge your PP faster. Considering Forces can once again use their weapons for something more than magic, I can see this happening.

Are you referring to blades only? I'm curious how the PSP game worked, could forces swing Rods and use Guns to refill their other weapons PP bar?

BIG OLAF
Jul 22, 2011, 02:09 PM
Are you referring to blades only? I'm curious how the PSP game worked, could forces swing Rods and use Guns to revive PP?

Only by hitting enemies with striking weapons could you recover PP. Using guns and spells drained PP.

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 22, 2011, 02:11 PM
Only by hitting enemies with striking weapons could you recover PP. Using guns and spells drained PP.
Thanks Olaf! Was PP character bound in PSP? Or was it impossible to refill your Rods/Wands?

BIG OLAF
Jul 22, 2011, 02:12 PM
Thanks Olaf! Was PP character bound in PSP? Or was it impossible to refill your Rods/Wands?

Yes, PP was character-bound. Also, there was no way to recover PP besides hitting monsters with striking weapons, or letting the bar recharge by itself.

Tetsaru
Jul 22, 2011, 03:09 PM
I think it'd be cool if Newmans had their TP regeneration ability back, but beefed up a little bit. Instead of having to stand still to do it, just have it regenerate while you're not in combat after a while, so you don't have to idly sit around doing nothing.

Of course, there could be armor units or other equipment that could do the same thing as well. I think it'd be cool to see a saber weapon that had a TP Regeneration perk to it, for instance - something good for a FOmar/Wartecher-like class.

Seth Astra
Jul 22, 2011, 03:50 PM
If Newmen regain their PP regeneration, I think the PSZ system (changed to be constant than in ticks every five seconds) would work: Newmen regained 1% of their PP per tick if they do anything between ticks, if they just stand still between ticks, they regain 5%. Keep this speed and make it a gradual regeneration (like PSP2's regeneration was), and I would be happy.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 04:49 PM
I really didn't like PSP2's PP system, honestly.

Well, i liked it better than PSU's weapon PP system...but that's not saying much.

Lunar_Furor
Jul 25, 2011, 02:36 PM
I honestly hope this game is a carbon copy of the old one with upgrades, none of this "using other games ideas" bs like pp that regens. Did i like it? Yes. more? no. This game is PSO2 not PSPi2 not PSPo3 or w/e. They didn't call those games into sequels and this one is. Seems simple to me.

BIG OLAF
Jul 25, 2011, 03:02 PM
I honestly hope this game is a carbon copy of the old one with upgrades, none of this "using other games ideas" bs like pp that regens. Did i like it? Yes. more? no. This game is PSO2 not PSPi2 not PSPo3 or w/e. They didn't call those games into sequels and this one is. Seems simple to me.

^For some reason, I'm starting to think that this guy is flamebaiting. I mean, he has to know about the gameplay video and features by now, and realize that this game isn't like PSO at all.

Vashyron
Jul 25, 2011, 03:02 PM
I honestly hope this game is a carbon copy of the old one with upgrades, none of this "using other games ideas" bs like pp that regens. Did i like it? Yes. more? no. This game is PSO2 not PSPi2 not PSPo3 or w/e. They didn't call those games into sequels and this one is. Seems simple to me.

Phantasy Star Online: Episode 3

r00tabaga
Jul 25, 2011, 03:20 PM
PP for hunters & TP for forces is one of the best ideas I've heard. Not sure what rangers would use (prolly PP) but I would love to see mono, di & trifluids again!

Pillan
Jul 25, 2011, 04:30 PM
Personally, I do not care for games with two magic bars (i.e., a skill bar and a spell bar) because you normally end up only using one or the other per character. And then it just becomes Forces use the skill to gain more TP and Hunters use the spell to gain more PP, effectively reducing it back down to one bar.

That said, I am quite fond of PSP2's PP system, though it could certainly use a bit more balance when it comes to gun and tech drains. I never bothered looking into it in Infinity, so I do not know how much it has improved since then.

NoiseHERO
Jul 25, 2011, 04:35 PM
I hope rangers don't have to deal with having pp or tp for ammo again...

I mean I guess the concept of ammo kind of makes since... But...

It's lame when you do one charged shot/whatever special gun skill we're gonna get, or non-gun related things. Then suddenly you're screwed out of "ammo" every 10 seconds. I'd say the same for vice versa(normal attack spam then chain finish) but I dunno if this game will even have a chain system or if PSP2i didn't already fix that...

Pillan
Jul 25, 2011, 04:37 PM
In the preview video, you can see that regular gun shots do not drain PP. However, there is no confirmation that it will be true in the alpha or the final version.

r00tabaga
Jul 25, 2011, 04:47 PM
In the preview video, you can see that regular gun shots do not drain PP. However, there is no confirmation that it will be true in the alpha or the final version.

So we can expect then that a hunter's normal attack is equal to a ranger's normal attack b/c neither drain PP. And a hunter's PA would be like a ranger's charged shot or special and use PP. I hope that's how it will be.

Anon_Fire
Jul 25, 2011, 06:32 PM
I honestly hope this game is a carbon copy of the old one with upgrades, none of this "using other games ideas" bs like pp that regens. Did i like it? Yes. more? no. This game is PSO2 not PSPi2 not PSPo3 or w/e. They didn't call those games into sequels and this one is. Seems simple to me.

Watch the gameplay trailer and see for yourself.

iBaylin
Jul 25, 2011, 06:58 PM
I like how it was in PSP2. I hope it's like that but tweaked at bit.