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Angelo
Jul 22, 2011, 05:29 AM
http://bumped.org/psublog/phantasy-star-online-2-enemies-development-screenshots/


Posted by Ricardo
Some new Phantasy Star Online 2 screenshots of attacking enemies. We’re currently reading the email at the moment.


Goodmorning, Today Bonkohara released an email newsletter revealing on July 26th, they will hold a media briefing for Phantasy Star Online 2. This media briefing will talk about the setting, concept, and races for PSO2. As such, Sakai will give a presentation showing off PSO2 and will release information on the official site and related sites when ready.
With much pleading by Bunkohara, Sakai has allowed us to watch the event on Nico Nico Douga. (You’ll need a Nico Nico Douga account if you want to watch any videos from that site). Please check out Sakai’s blog on the 25th for information about the broadcast.

http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Throwing.jpg


Here’s Sue (in a blue name) throwing an enemy around. You can use this feature to attack an enemy from a distance.


http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Enemy.jpg

This guy looks similar to a gorilla type enemy from the Forest. Kind of like the Hildebear, but it’s not his name. Such big hands, why he could throw someone with that. His size is considerably large, it would make more sense to compare his height by checking out the last image.


http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/enemy-2.jpg


See he’s quite big, there’s there’s 1,2,3,4,5,6,7…8? Hmm somehow there’s a lot of people fighting this one enemy.



Nice stuff! The monster looks a little weird though.

•Col•
Jul 22, 2011, 05:43 AM
From what I posted in the info thread...


That one party screen doesn't make sense to me..... There's only 4 players listed on the side.... But there's 8 characters on screen; 5 with white names, 3 with blue names.... However, the white names correspond with the names on the side. However, in the other picture with Sue, all of the names of your party characters are blue.... Ugh, now I'm confused.

I have a feeling this might actually turn out to be an open world rather than instanced missions... o-o They did say they really wanted to create a sense of adventure and an open world certainly would achieve that... Not sure if I'd like it though.

That one new weapon looks.... Interesting. Also, I see hidden meseta in the first screen. :3c

Angelo
Jul 22, 2011, 05:45 AM
From what I posted in the info thread...

Is this information posted in another thread? I apologize. I did a quick search and couldn't....

....wait... it's probably that sticky I never check, huh?

EDIT: Damnit!

•Col•
Jul 22, 2011, 06:00 AM
Also, I spy with my little eye..... A SABER.

EDIT: And also, in the first pic with Sue... That looks like a handgun that the RAcast is holding.... It just looks really stupid, cuz like..... It looks like they used the Rifle holding animation for the handgun because they haven't made one yet. So there are MASSIVE clipping issues going on there.

EDIT 2: We can now see that the bar under the HP and PP bars is the EXP bar.

Pillan
Jul 22, 2011, 06:53 AM
That one party screen doesn't make sense to me..... There's only 4 players listed on the side.... But there's 8 characters on screen; 5 with white names, 3 with blue names.... However, the white names correspond with the names on the side. However, in the other picture with Sue, all of the names of your party characters are blue.... Ugh, now I'm confused.

The player's party (names on the side) is definitely the blue name in both cases. The main character on the lower screenshot is the FOmar. Also is that a rod attack, dodge, and foie I spy on his pallet?

And Sue's whip-like weapon definitely reminds me of doing the same grab and twirling style in werehog combat on Unleashed. I definitely like where this game is going for melee, but it seems like Ranger and Force will be even more boring and tedious in comparison than it was in PSU.

EDIT:

It also looks like they have a lot less HP in this screenshot than the previous ones. The HUnewearl has 240 and the FOmar has 220. I cannot tell if it is level 5 or 9. But this is much less than the HUmar with 800 anyway. And the PP seems to be 100 in both cases.

But, more important than that, what is the RAcast in the right corner of image 3 using? I want to say twin sabers, but a weapon that ambiguous is impossible to tell.

•Col•
Jul 22, 2011, 07:18 AM
The player's party (names on the side) is definitely the blue name in both cases. The main character on the lower screenshot is the FOmar.

Yeah but in that picture, there are 5 names in white and only 3 in blue. There are 4 party members listed on the left side... And 5 seems like a weird cutoff for NPC characters, so I'm guessing it'd be 6.... Which just seems overboard to me.

That's why I'm confused.

Pillan
Jul 22, 2011, 07:49 AM
Yeah but in that picture, there are 5 names in white and only 3 in blue. There are 4 party members listed on the left side... And 5 seems like a weird cutoff for NPC characters, so I'm guessing it'd be 6.... Which just seems overboard to me.

That's why I'm confused.

I assume the fourth one is the HUmar with the name covered by the text box. However, that could very well be one of the other party's team members and the fourth guy could be off screen somewhere. But there are definitely five white names, as you said.

And that could mean a number of things, such as a lot of NPCs, at least some non-instanced areas, the ability to invite at least 2 other parties to join you on a quest, etc. It is really too early to say, but I assume it will be cleared up with the next announcement.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 08:08 AM
WOW, Hey, who's the guy who called the "whip like attack throwing enemies?"

You were spot on, dude. If i had an E-cookie you'd get one.

1) looks like you'll be playing with more than one team of people.

2) Looks like forces can cast in the air.

3) I was right, those were neither Sabers nor Daggers Sue was carrying.

4) I spy a SABER, with the original Saber "ready stance" animation going on. Oh boy yes.

5) Is...that a Mag on that Racast's back in the last picture? It looks too off of the color scheme to be part of his outfit...

6) That Hildebear is freaking epic. Fighting with 2 teams seems awesome, but i can only imagine the hell with one.

ShadowDragon28
Jul 22, 2011, 08:11 AM
Looks awesome so far IMO.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 08:21 AM
That Ramar looks epic in that last screen shot, man. I actually dig that outfit alot, at least so far from the back.

On first glance i thought that was a Hucaseal with that hair, but now from the stance (and rifle) im pretty positive thats a Ramarl.

And jesus christ, that Rockbear is literally boss sized. If he's truely a miniboss type enemy like in PSO, then the bosses are about to be taken up to eleven on this game. If he can actually pick you up and THROW you like the caption suggests, then i'll be so happy. It means they're finally going to allow more than 2 states for you to be damaged in. (hit back and Knocked Down)



Pay close attention to these outfits, guys. In the last screenshot, Racast has an object on him that 1) resembles a mag and 2) do not belong on his original outfit. Maybe it's a mag? Or maybe a Frame? (A neat alternative to lineshields, lol)



Finally, if you guys look at the Action Pallete down there, it looks like the tiny "R" has been put there once again. Perhaps this means you're able to Switch now? It was not there in the original screenshots or the video. In fact, alot of HUD things have changed a bit. It's a bit disappointing to know the EXP bar is not the PB gauge (even though the PSO one was shared with your color icon so wutever), but i noticed they put the Enemy Data window back in the bottom right corner, and the icons are different.

Edit: No, pretty much confirmed at this point the Window Switching is back. If you look really closely under her attack buttons on the first screenshot, there's a tiny text that says "Shift".

Edit Again:

And also, if you notice (and i pretty much knew they'd do this), that thing we spectulated to be a "Combo Gauge" or the "Chain Gauge" has been removed for the last screenshot, which appears to belong to the Force.


Hot damn. What a wonderful thing to look at as i drink my morning coffee! Man i love this franchise.

•Col•
Jul 22, 2011, 09:04 AM
5) Is...that a Mag on that Racast's back in the last picture? It looks too off of the color scheme to be part of his outfit...

Was thinking that too, but didn't want to get anyone's hopes up... >.>

Aeiku
Jul 22, 2011, 09:11 AM
Is that a RAcaseal and HUcast I see in the background?

r00tabaga
Jul 22, 2011, 09:15 AM
That Ramar looks epic in that last screen shot, man. I actually dig that outfit alot, at least so far from the back.

On first glance i thought that was a Hucaseal with that hair, but now from the stance (and rifle) im pretty positive thats a Ramarl.

And jesus christ, that Rockbear is literally boss sized. If he's truely a miniboss type enemy like in PSO, then the bosses are about to be taken up to eleven on this game. If he can actually pick you up and THROW you like the caption suggests, then i'll be so happy. It means they're finally going to allow more than 2 states for you to be damaged in. (hit back and Knocked Down)



Pay close attention to these outfits, guys. In the last screenshot, Racast has an object on him that 1) resembles a mag and 2) do not belong on his original outfit. Maybe it's a mag? Or maybe a Frame? (A neat alternative to lineshields, lol)



Finally, if you guys look at the Action Pallete down there, it looks like the tiny "R" has been put there once again. Perhaps this means you're able to Switch now? It was not there in the original screenshots or the video. In fact, alot of HUD things have changed a bit. It's a bit disappointing to know the EXP bar is not the PB gauge (even though the PSO one was shared with your color icon so wutever), but i noticed they put the Enemy Data window back in the bottom right corner, and the icons are different.

Edit: No, pretty much confirmed at this point the Window Switching is back. If you look really closely under her attack buttons on the first screenshot, there's a tiny text that says "Shift".

Edit Again:

And also, if you notice (and i pretty much knew they'd do this), that thing we spectulated to be a "Combo Gauge" or the "Chain Gauge" has been removed for the last screenshot, which appears to belong to the Force.


Hot damn. What a wonderful thing to look at as i drink my morning coffee! Man i love this franchise.

Digging the RAmar also. Not thinking that's a mag, but what do I know ;)
Also loving the air casting!!!!

Judecadre
Jul 22, 2011, 09:25 AM
Man that Hildebear-type looks like its blinged-out cousin or something. Must be a sub-boss or similar too if there's a cutscene devoted to it...

Indeed it does look like that last group player's name is obscured by the pop-up chat box. I'm counting 9 entities total (if you count that blue disembodied name in the mid-left side of the screenshot), so maybe 4 players that brought in their own 4 NPC characters (I'm assuming something like PMs, I guess), and then a quest-specific NPC.

Really, I'm guessing as I've been inactive in the PS world for a while, but regardless nice screens; can't wait to see if anything drops from the alpha test.

Demon-
Jul 22, 2011, 09:42 AM
Yeah I'm thinking that's 4 players and the rest are NPCs helping out that don't take up party space anymore. Ether that or 2 teams of players which would be very interesting. Loving the new miniboss. These are great screens of the game. Can't wait to see what info they release on the 26th.

DemonMike
Jul 22, 2011, 09:47 AM
I very much doubt it'll be an open world setting, that'd totally ruin the point of randomised blocks wouldn't it?

I would love it if there's a new system allowing two parties of 4 to take on the same mission though, could open up some fresh idea's for the series.

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 09:55 AM
Maybe they separate NPC's from the actual party slots, but at the same time interrupt-events add more people and it becomes a mess. Possibly only story characters getting the blue names while the interrupt-event characters still have white names like the players.

Also I doubt that thing on that CASTs back is a mag... It looks more like some sort of attachment than something just floating on his back.

But since he's the only one that has it, could be some CAST exclusive thing. (Like SUVS.)

And yeah, the map kinda just screams "not an open field" I hope we won't be getting tricked like with PSU's HD dynamic angle screenshots.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 10:28 AM
Well it's pretty obvious the fields arent completely open. Just look at the map.

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 10:42 AM
Yeah I was just saying that because I think someone else brought up open fields. <_>

BIG OLAF
Jul 22, 2011, 10:46 AM
I don't think that it's "two teams" of players. I think that the characters with the blue names over their heads are players, and the ones with the white names are NPCs. That's just my thought, though.

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 10:48 AM
Well

I never compared the actual characters(letters) in their names to the ones on the health bars...

and I kinda don't feel like it.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 10:49 AM
Yeah I was just saying that because I think someone else brought up open fields. <_>

Well its easy to mistake that. Honestly they aren't any bigger than PSU's fields, if you remember alot of the Parum stages.

They just look a helluva lot better.

Maybe the NPC characters u converse with can be recruited for missions :0

Mega Ultra Chicken
Jul 22, 2011, 10:58 AM
Wait a minute, Hunters can now throw their enemies?

...Hunters are gonna be freaking boss in this game (even more so than they already are.)

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 10:59 AM
Yeah but CASTs can *psht* fly.

Mega Ultra Chicken
Jul 22, 2011, 11:04 AM
Yeah but CASTs can *psht* fly.They can fly, but THEY HAS NO SOLZ THEY JUST WANT MOAR DAMAG. [/feigningcasthatred]

But seriously, flying CASTs? That's... just... awesome.

...I'm putting my money on levitating Forces in this game. Or maybe flying carpets for them.

Ishia
Jul 22, 2011, 11:06 AM
That RAcast's color palette is downright horrid. Orange and Blue? NOPE.

Mega Ultra Chicken
Jul 22, 2011, 11:07 AM
That RAcast's color palette is downright horrid. Orange and Blue? NOPE.

One man's bad color scheme is another man's "Go Gators!"

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 11:11 AM
I was joking about the flying thing. and I guess this means so far...

We can change outfit color- wait... that obscure color palette...

Either we can change the color palette of clothes at will, our color choices are going to be really gross... or we ARE stuck with default outfits! *starts panicking again*

PrinceBrightstar
Jul 22, 2011, 11:12 AM
I'm going to extrapolate a little here based on what we're seeing of the apparently 2 parties. If it's possible to increase the party size, or multi-partying/raiding we could see a lot of options open up to the game. Actually if anything this finaly takes it out of being in the ever present ORPG genre and expands it to MMO status. it would make pvp based battles more interesting rather than the 2 on 2 affairs they've been in the past and The monster pounding issue could easily be taken care of if they didn't recoil from every single hit that lands on them which is how most MMO based raids handle things already.

(Here's where my thinking goes crazy) The question becomes how this will all play out. PSO/PSU are more action oriented and don't really have the GCDs that most MMOs have. Instead you just have to wait for the attack animation to finish. Not to mention jumping and dodging attacks are a normal thing in PSO2 when normally a creature will hit you and if they miss is all a % based on your stats in other MMOs. It'll be interesting to see just how PSO2 will once again re certify that Sega is constantly trying to evolve this series and try to send shockwaves through the industry. (Ok maybe it won't be as big as First Console Online RPG but you get my drift)

Just to expand that line of thinking to the extreme, depending on just how many teams can team up, we could be looking at PSO2 trying to take Dust 514 head on in terms of how big the battles can be. (except there isn't another game backing it up of course.)

BIG OLAF
Jul 22, 2011, 11:12 AM
That RAcast's color palette is downright horrid. Orange and Blue? NOPE.

I agree. Another vomit-inducing color swap courtesy of SEGA. They really need people with a better sense of style working on this game.

Mega Ultra Chicken
Jul 22, 2011, 11:14 AM
I was joking about the flying thing. and I guess this means so far...

We can change outfit color- wait... that obscure color palette...

Either we can change the color palette of clothes at will, our color choices are going to be really gross... or we ARE stuck with default outfits! *starts panicking again*

Only time will tell if your joke is still a joke. We've only been shown a fragment of the tip of the iceberg.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 11:17 AM
I'm going to extrapolate a little here based on what we're seeing of the apparently 2 parties. If it's possible to increase the party size, or multi-partying/raiding we could see a lot of options open up to the game. Actually if anything this finaly takes it out of being in the ever present ORPG genre and expands it to MMO status. it would make pvp based battles more interesting rather than the 2 on 2 affairs they've been in the past and The monster pounding issue could easily be taken care of if they didn't recoil from every single hit that lands on them which is how most MMO based raids handle things already.

(Here's where my thinking goes crazy) The question becomes how this will all play out. PSO/PSU are more action oriented and don't really have the GCDs that most MMOs have. Instead you just have to wait for the attack animation to finish. Not to mention jumping and dodging attacks are a normal thing in PSO2 when normally a creature will hit you and if they miss is all a % based on your stats in other MMOs. It'll be interesting to see just how PSO2 will once again re certify that Sega is constantly trying to evolve this series and try to send shockwaves through the industry. (Ok maybe it won't be as big as First Console Online RPG but you get my drift)

Just to expand that line of thinking to the extreme, depending on just how many teams can team up, we could be looking at PSO2 trying to take Dust 514 head on in terms of how big the battles can be. (except there isn't another game backing it up of course.)


....extrapolate, huh. Interesting word.


I was joking about the flying thing. and I guess this means so far...

We can change outfit color- wait... that obscure color palette...

Either we can change the color palette of clothes at will, our color choices are going to be really gross... or we ARE stuck with default outfits! *starts panicking again*

Spines > knees > atmosphere > extra modes > pallete


We are on a ROLL

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 11:22 AM
knees? D:

I was panicking not complaining, I don't have enough info to complete, so I'm not gonna argue about what I'm not sure of yet.(unlike MOST PEOPLE!!)

The actual colors however, is just whoever made that character's fault. But of course it's probably an NPC anyway.

Randomness
Jul 22, 2011, 11:24 AM
Enemy throwing? Is this a new weapon type, perhaps? I can't imagine it being effective on that rock bear... Maybe if two people each grabbed an arm you could chuck it.

Also digging the 8v1 screenshot. I could see them making missions with shitloads of large enemies to counter the obscene firepower of that kind of group.

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 11:27 AM
It looks more like a zelda "weapon/tool" ability than a weapon, otherwise they may as well had shown off other new weapons too unless this one was the most unique.

I hope we have like grappling hooks and stuff n junk.

yoshiblue
Jul 22, 2011, 11:28 AM
Instead of "GOGOGO!" the dood should have said "WEAST! WEEEEEAAASSSTTT!!!".

Ezodagrom
Jul 22, 2011, 11:29 AM
In the last picture, there's 3 characters with a blue name (they're 3 of the 4 that have the HP bars in the left), 5 characters with white names, there's the HUmar that has is name hidden by the chat bubble, and, in the bumped.org psu blog, in the comments someone pointed out that in the minimap there's 2 more dots in the distance, possibly where the red chat bubble is appearing from.
So that means, there are 11 players in there?

BIG OLAF
Jul 22, 2011, 11:30 AM
In the last picture, there's 3 characters with a blue name (they're 3 of the 4 that have the HP bars in the left), 5 characters with white names, there's the HUmar that has is name hidden by the chat bubble, and, in the bumped.org psu blog, in the comments someone pointed out that in the minimap there's 2 more dots in the distance, possibly where the red chat bubble is appearing from.
So that means, there are 11 players in there?

Like I and others have said, we're pretty sure the white-named people are NPCs.

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 11:31 AM
Another thing I forgot to point out.

It seems like all of the characters are focused on the direction of the monster.

Does this mean they cleared up that stupid monster syncing problem? or is this just a good screen shot. If we consider all the white names NPC's I'd have to say that would make this a REALLY lucky screen shot.

yoshiblue
Jul 22, 2011, 11:31 AM
For those who wanted a bikini, that Newmen has your bikini there! Besides, I like the orange and blue colors. Looks cool imo.

@Mich: I could have been some sort of system link during a screen run/test?

BIG OLAF
Jul 22, 2011, 11:36 AM
Not sure if anyone has said this already, but I think the thing on the RAcast's back are a form of gliding wings. Perhaps in Bonkohara's last E-mail, the ______ wasn't "fly", but "glide."

Ezodagrom
Jul 22, 2011, 11:39 AM
Like I and others have said, we're pretty sure the white-named people are NPCs.
I really doubt they're npcs, especially because there's 5 white names for 4 group (blue) members, and that is not counting the 2 dots in the distance, which could potentially be 2 more players.
Maybe it could be possible to run instances with multiple groups, or maybe it could even be an open world (probably not).

Meh...I guess we'll just have to wait for more info about this.

cosmos-169
Jul 22, 2011, 11:42 AM
one of the things i like about pso is the instanced areas for players like me who dont like running alot here and there in an open world...never liked mmos and i hope this game is just like pso even if it will look a bit outdated to younger/new players who didnt exprience pso on its time.

cant wait for the the broadcast!

BIG OLAF
Jul 22, 2011, 11:44 AM
one of the things i like about pso is the instanced areas for players like me who dont like running alot here and there in an open world...never liked mmos and i hope this game is just like pso even if it will look a bit outdated to younger/new players who didnt exprience pso on its time.

cant wait for the the broadcast!

How would PSO2 look outdated? It's a new game. I don't understand what you're saying.

RenzokukenZ
Jul 22, 2011, 11:44 AM
Not sure if anyone has said this already, but I think the thing on the RAcast's back are a form of gliding wings. Perhaps in Bonkohara's last E-mail, the ______ wasn't "fly", but "glide."

Homer Simpson with his glider and laser gun come to mind.

But if Forces can cast techs in the air, as speculated on the pic, then I don't see RAcasts gliding and delivering death from above a bad thing. Instead I see as a welcoming addition.

LK1721
Jul 22, 2011, 11:51 AM
Oh man is this an awesome way to start my morning~

That throwing weapon looks pretty awesome. It could, perhaps, cause some knock back to surrounding monsters, which would be cool.

That Rockbear is MASSIVE. I can only imagine how...well monstrous the bosses are going to be if that is just a mini boss. D: Looks like if there are two of those close to one another Hunters are going to be turned into baseballs to play catch with for those Rockbears.

The RAmar looks pretty JAMF and I'm really liking his design. That RAcast, on the other hand has the colors of a Transformer from the 80's. XD On the other-other hand, those "wings" (what else would you call them?) are quite curious. What could they be? A MAG? A Shield of some sort? Whatever they are, I like them.

Randomness
Jul 22, 2011, 12:19 PM
Homer Simpson with his glider and laser gun come to mind.

But if Forces can cast techs in the air, as speculated on the pic, then I don't see RAcasts gliding and delivering death from above a bad thing. Instead I see as a welcoming addition.

Yeah. Rocket jump with those huge legs, then hover/glide down.

THLPSC
Jul 22, 2011, 12:42 PM
one of the things i like about pso is the instanced areas for players like me who dont like running alot here and there in an open world...never liked mmos and i hope this game is just like pso even if it will look a bit outdated to younger/new players who didnt exprience pso on its time.

cant wait for the the broadcast!

PSO is a pos game with an outdated mechanics. If PSO2 was exactly like PSO I personally would not play it.

MAXrobo
Jul 22, 2011, 01:47 PM
the last picture could be some sort of pvp. like 2 or 3 teams all trying to beat on the same huge monster, and which ever team did the most damage when it finally goes down wins. just a random thought

I don't think the thing on the RAcast's back is a mag mostly because nobody else has one. I would guess it is just part of the outfit.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 01:48 PM
PSO is a pos game with an outdated mechanics. If PSO2 was exactly like PSO I personally would not play it.
Yay for opinions


knees? D:

I was panicking not complaining, I don't have enough info to complete, so I'm not gonna argue about what I'm not sure of yet.(unlike MOST PEOPLE!!)

The actual colors however, is just whoever made that character's fault. But of course it's probably an NPC anyway.
I was just joking, but it looked like someone up there was really offended by his pallete.

knees = pigeon toed ramarl


And i hate to say it, but im really quite scared they're going to leave that floor texture like that.

Neith
Jul 22, 2011, 02:01 PM
I see a RAcaseal.

*stoked*

The huge enemy looks really odd, not sure what to think about it. Hopefully the backgrounds get cleaned up before release though, they look messy at the minute. Textures are a bit...terrible.

RAcaseal is a good sign though, was pretty much a given but it's nice to see one.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 02:03 PM
Man, it's mostly that terrible ground texture they're using, coupled with all that aliasing that's making it look bad.

Japanese developers really dont care much for making games in HD, i guess. :/

BIG OLAF
Jul 22, 2011, 02:04 PM
And i hate to say it, but im really quite scared they're going to leave that floor texture like that.


Hopefully the backgrounds get cleaned up before release though, they look messy at the minute. Textures are a bit...terrible.

Maybe I just don't get it, since I haven't been a "PC gamer" since Diablo II's heyday, but....what's wrong with the textures? I don't see anything bad about them. Maybe it's because it really doesn't bother me, but thought I'd ask anyway.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 02:08 PM
They wouldn't bother me much either, it's just that they're so terribly low res that it's really easy to tell that it's....well, a texture. It stretches and whatnot all over the terrain. When you get close up on it, or look at it from any kind of angle, it just makes the game look about 5 years older than it should.

It's like a lazy placeholder, honestly.


The most surprising thing to me about this game? Sonic Team seems to be completely ignoring any kind of lighting techniques or shaders. Not even bump/normal mapping. No dynamic lights either. The environments look good content wise, but get close on any texture and it just looks flat and 2004ish.

Honestly, this looks like the PSU engine with higher-poly models.




PSO is a pos game with an outdated mechanics. If PSO2 was exactly like PSO I personally would not play it.Sorry, just had to come back to this.

Can someone please explain to me what "outdated mechanics" are? Or, more importantly, which ones PSO used that causes people to keep saying this?

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 02:08 PM
So like...

What that red chat bubble coming from?

I think ezo said something about there possibly being more people in the map further away.

Neith
Jul 22, 2011, 02:10 PM
Maybe I just don't get it, since I haven't been a "PC gamer" since Diablo II's heyday, but....what's wrong with the textures? I don't see anything bad about them. Maybe it's because it really doesn't bother me, but thought I'd ask anyway.

If you look at the picture of the closeup on the Rockbear, the ground looks very 'flat' in texture, and even a little blurry in places. It's as if a texture for a smaller area has been used but resized. The blurring might be fixable with Anisotropic Filtering, but it looks a little blurred which detracts from the realism of the texture.

I did games design, and that kind of texture tends to mean you haven't tiled a texture as much as you should have. Ideally, a large floor texture should be a couple of smaller ones which all meld together seamlessly, rather than one which looks blurred when you're up close.

BIG OLAF
Jul 22, 2011, 02:10 PM
They wouldn't bother me much either, it's just that they're so terribly low res that it's really easy to tell that it's....well, a texture. It stretches and whatnot all over the terrain. When you get close up on it, or look at it from any kind of angle, it just makes the game look about 5 years older than it should.

It's like a lazy placeholder, honestly.

Oh. See, that doesn't matter to me at all. It's not like I'm going to be staring at the ground, analyzing it for minutes at a time. I'm just going to be playing and enjoying myself. I don't really care how the game looks when it comes down to details. As long as it looks good enough to be, like, a PS2 game, then I'm fine with that. I'm not really a graphics snob.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 02:17 PM
I did games design, and that kind of texture tends to mean you haven't tiled a texture as much as you should have. Ideally, a large floor texture should be a couple of smaller ones which all meld together seamlessly, rather than one which looks blurred when you're up close.

This.

They pretty much took one square texture for the ground and stretched it over the ENTIRE stage. Not pretty.

I'd assume they were placeholders, but like i said, this game really just looks like the PSU engine with better quality models. Which means at best, the graphics will not improve too much better.

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 02:19 PM
If we're nitpicking at graphics then...

*points @ Gamecube graphic trees and the floating ramar*

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 02:21 PM
Japanese developers just aren't very interested in WTFbeautiful games anymore, i think.


This game looks great to me, but that's only because im comparing it to PSO and PSU. To anyone on the outside looking in, they'd probably assume this game was made 5 years ago....


Well, as i look at other games in google images, this game doesn't really look that bad in comparison. But my big beef with the FLOOR texture is that it literally degrades the entire forest stage's look.

Vashyron
Jul 22, 2011, 02:23 PM
Perhaps there are non-instanced (Along with Instanced) worlds this time.

Could finally call a PS game an actual MMO!

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 02:28 PM
It's always been an MMO. The only reason someone wouldn't call it that is because most other MMOs simply refuse to use instanced areas, while PSO completely relies on them.

Take a game like Gunbound for example. Definitely an MMO, but the most players you can interact with in-game is 6, i believe. Just because PSO was primarily instanced doesn't mean you couldn't interact with a massive number of players online at once.

Ishia
Jul 22, 2011, 02:37 PM
This game looks great to me, but that's only because im comparing it to PSO and PSU. To anyone on the outside looking in, they'd probably assume this game was made 5 years ago....

PSU looks like it was developed from 2001-2002 and released 2003-2004. Makes sense if PSO2 looks like a PC game from 2006-2007, wouldn't you say?

Angelo
Jul 22, 2011, 03:11 PM
It's always been an MMO. The only reason someone wouldn't call it that is because most other MMOs simply refuse to use instanced areas, while PSO completely relies on them.

Take a game like Gunbound for example. Definitely an MMO, but the most players you can interact with in-game is 6, i believe. Just because PSO was primarily instanced doesn't mean you couldn't interact with a massive number of players online at once.

It must have been awhile since you've played an MMO then.

Almost ALL MMOs use instances now, in fact the most popular ones tend to revolve around them.

Tetsaru
Jul 22, 2011, 03:34 PM
Ehh, I wouldn't call PSO or PSU MMO's, especially PSU, since the population was so split up. Online RPG's, yes, but not massively multiplayer. If Sega actually does a good job with PSO2 and advertises it, then maybe it could reach MMO status. Even then, I'd think there would need to be an expansive overworld in order to accommodate everyone.

Back on-topic though, I'm glad to see some new screenshots, and I'll be looking forward to the announcements on the 26th. :D

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 03:45 PM
[insert obligatory "OH THIS AGAIN" image]

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 04:38 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KTTHdsIrQLk/TXnZ3Eqh4-I/AAAAAAAAHgQ/hF8cChX0uqw/s400/AwJeezNotThisSheetAgain1.jpg

There you go Michaeru. Because im really not going through this again.

ShadowDragon28
Jul 22, 2011, 04:49 PM
people are whining about the ground texture? OMG. It's a "worm's eye view" camera angle, which I'm sure is not the default camera angle in the game.

When one is playing I think people should not give a frak about the ground texture. This isn't going to have Crysis 2 level graphics ffs.
What matters IMO is gameplay, not how the ground looks on zoomed in close-ups.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 04:55 PM
And as much as it may not matter to you, do know that it not only matters to other people who DO care, but people who DONT as well, if you catch my drift.

In other words, people (especially in USA) will judge a game based on its graphics in a heartbeat. PSO2 is 1) anime inspired and 2) so far, somewhat lacking in the graphic polish department. Thats two fatal strikes already.

BIG OLAF
Jul 22, 2011, 04:55 PM
people are whining about the ground texture? OMG.

Welcome to the PSO2 sub-forum.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 04:57 PM
I dont mean to nitpick, but seriously, it's an ugly texture. It stands out horribly in all the screenshots of the game. I really think it degrades the entire level.

Malachite
Jul 22, 2011, 05:10 PM
It is ugly, they need to fix it.

So uh... maybe I'm just blind, but where is this saber people are seeing? Cause I totally can't find it.

Ishia
Jul 22, 2011, 05:24 PM
Behold! The Elusive Saber!

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww237/Eleidon/SUPPOSEDSABERBLADE.png

It looks a bit too big for an actual one-handed weapon though. It does LOOK like a saber however.

Malachite
Jul 22, 2011, 05:28 PM
Oh, that? I thought that was a sword lol but now I realize it's different from the sword we've seen.

It does look big, but I like the design though. Thanks :]

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 05:29 PM
I still don't think it's a saber... I'd need a closer view...

Hopefully all this annoying nitpicking and speculating and trolling and arguing in the dark will be cleared on the 26th...

Malachite
Jul 22, 2011, 05:34 PM
I think the thing on the cast's back looks like some new form of Diwari.

Tyreek
Jul 22, 2011, 06:06 PM
Enjoyed what I saw. The draping on the CAST's back seem to be just attachments than mags. As for its pallete. Well, blue/orange is a complimentary combination, from what I remember in color theory. It makes the opposite color pop.

lostinseganet
Jul 22, 2011, 06:16 PM
8 players YEAAA

Neith
Jul 22, 2011, 06:18 PM
people are whining about the ground texture? OMG. It's a "worm's eye view" camera angle, which I'm sure is not the default camera angle in the game.

When one is playing I think people should not give a frak about the ground texture. This isn't going to have Crysis 2 level graphics ffs.
What matters IMO is gameplay, not how the ground looks on zoomed in close-ups.

You can notice the terrible ground textures on almost every screenshot so far, it's not just limited to the closeups.

When you've worked to make games, you notice these things much more and with the tech we have now, this kind of poor work just isn't good enough. Maybe it'll be fixed before release, since this is an early build. We'll see. These things do matter to some people; just because they don't matter to you doesn't mean it should be allowed to be dismissed.

ShadowDragon28
Jul 22, 2011, 06:28 PM
Excuse me, I just don't get what's so important about how a ground texture looks. If it's not important to key gameplay and how enjoyable it is, I don't see why the damn texture matters.

I've been playing videogames for over 25 years and to me gameplay, execution of game design, challenge level, control scheme, music, and oveall art style are what matters.

I just don't get whats the point of bitching about one ground texture in screenshots of an early build of the game.
Do players of WoW complain about individual textures or do they just play the game and enjoy it? I don't get the point in nitpicking on what is IMO a minor thing.

BIG OLAF
Jul 22, 2011, 06:38 PM
Excuse me, I just don't get what's so important about how a ground texture looks. If it's not important to key gameplay and how enjoyable it is, I don't see why the damn texture matters.

I've been playing videogames for over 25 years and to me gameplay, execution of game design, challenge level, control scheme, music, and oveall art style are what matters.

I just don't get whats the point of bitching about one ground texture in screenshots of an early build of the game.
Do players of WoW complain about individual textures or do they just play the game and enjoy it? I don't get the point in nitpicking on what is IMO a minor thing.

WELCOME TO THE PSO2 SUB-FORUM.

Please make sure your spine is straight, and you toes don't point inwards.

RemiusTA
Jul 22, 2011, 07:09 PM
It's not the PSO2 Sub-forum, it's the INTERNET.

People fail to realize that what may be minor to one may be major to another. It's only topped off when you add in the fact that everyone on the internet is infallible.

ShadowDragon28
Jul 22, 2011, 07:44 PM
What are we to complain about next? A single flower image texture 100 ft from the camera "looks fake", or complain that "there's not enough rivets on the Racasts armor!" Come on, jeez!

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 07:59 PM
Well...

I kind of always hated the way Humars feet look, they're SO TINY!! IF YOU HAVE ARMOR PLATED BOOT ON LIKE THAT, YOUR FEET SHOULDN'T BE SMALLER THAN YOUR HANDS.

ShadowDragon28
Jul 22, 2011, 08:20 PM
I hope that was sarcasm/a joke.. *sigh* Whatever.

*goes back to happily playing PSOBB*

I'm most concerned with the lack of MAGs in the teaser pics. I do *pray* PSO2 will have MAGs. It just wouldn't truely be a true sequel to PSO without them IMO...

Vashyron
Jul 22, 2011, 08:29 PM
...Derp. The game isn't out yet, it's very well obvious that people will find something to comment on that they aren't liking the looks of. A very easy one at that is anything graphical at this point.

Currently the game looks like it's from 2006 or so which is fine to me, not a gamebreaker, but if they did put the effort in having higher res textures or so less people would be "nitpicking" and probably would induce more sales. (No matter what anyone says, a lot of games do sell because of it's graphics.)

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 08:43 PM
I hope that was sarcasm/a joke.. *sigh* Whatever.

*goes back to happily playing PSOBB*

I'm most concerned with the lack of MAGs in the teaser pics. I do *pray* PSO2 will have MAGs. It just wouldn't truely be a true sequel to PSO without them IMO...

Of COURSE IT WAS SARCASM!

MY GOD, MAAAN!!! O_o

Kent
Jul 22, 2011, 10:12 PM
So, that last image...
[SPOILER-BOX]http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/enemy-2.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
So, I can't help but notice the differently-colored names for these characters. We've seen screenshots before that appear to have player names in a light blue/cyan color, but half of these seem to be white-named characters. Considering we can only see four player characters listed on the character status UI in the top-left corner of the screen, I'm guessing there will be points in areas, or just specific missions, where we'll be accompanied by NPCs. I would say it's incredibly unlikely that we'll have groups of eight players at a time, and even less likely that there will be "open" world areas as we'd see in games that are actually MMOs - but the prospect of teaming up with a team of NPCs for a given mission certainly sounds interesting, taking down big enemies or massive hordes together. Could be fun.

Also, it looks an awful lot like that FOmar is casting Foie while airborne, doesn't it? Unfortunately, he's wielding a rod-like weapon while casting, but airborne technique-casting is an interesting idea... Maybe we'll be able to tie it into melee combos to some extent.

Vashyron
Jul 22, 2011, 10:24 PM
There are 9 characters total in that screenshot and the Minimap seems to show 2 more.

I'm not seeing whats so unlikely about them being actual players.

Also if these were NPCs wouldn't it be important to show their stats on the HUD for players to know their condition? More so for Forces providing support.

Malachite
Jul 22, 2011, 10:24 PM
Why is it unfortunate that he's using a rod to cast?

ShadowDragon28
Jul 22, 2011, 10:41 PM
Sorry. It's not easy for me to discern sarcasm over internet text.

NoiseHERO
Jul 22, 2011, 10:43 PM
Because it may be a sign that theres no "off hand" casting.

Also it generally looks lame.

If we're casting from the rod... I'd prefer it kingdom hearts style where it magic flies out like bullets missles and it's like you're shooting the spells from the tip of the rod, or you raise it in the air if it's what we'd call a "ra" attack.

Compared to PSU where it's like you're an annoying little kid waving a hockey stick around, or pretending you're a ghostbuster and fireballs come out.

At least with PSO it was more like a badass "DO WHAT I SAY, MAGIC" hand point or wave or a "HADOUKEN" but looking at the way we've seen forces use the rods so far, I think it reminds me of PSU's corny style.

@shadow: well you can tell I'm being sarcastic(or at least NOT serious in general) when I break into all caps.

Wayu
Jul 22, 2011, 10:50 PM
Holy cow. One day and almost 100 posts.

Based on the opening post:

Nothing else that someone has already said. I think those white names in the bottom-most image are NPCs, but there's also a high chance of multiple parties in one instance. It could be a sort of, "two teams compete to see who kills it first" thing, too.

-Wayu

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 22, 2011, 10:53 PM
Holy freaking god this looks fun, 8 players at a time, the RAmar looks cool everyone looks battle ready! (I guess those were more than claws the HUnewearl has) The ability to grab and control the enemies is very cool, I'm wondering if there will be more grappling type moves for hunters.
It keeps looking better and better!

ThEoRy
Jul 22, 2011, 10:55 PM
One man's bad color scheme is another man's "Go Gators!"

You got that right!! GO GATORS!!!

Malachite
Jul 22, 2011, 11:13 PM
Because it may be a sign that theres no "off hand" casting.

Also it generally looks lame.

If we're casting from the rod... I'd prefer it kingdom hearts style where it magic flies out like bullets missles and it's like you're shooting the spells from the tip of the rod, or you raise it in the air if it's what we'd call a "ra" attack.

Compared to PSU where it's like you're an annoying little kid waving a hockey stick around, or pretending you're a ghostbuster and fireballs come out.

At least with PSO it was more like a badass "DO WHAT I SAY, MAGIC" hand point or wave or a "HADOUKEN" but looking at the way we've seen forces use the rods so far, I think it reminds me of PSU's corny style.

@shadow: well you can tell I'm being sarcastic(or at least NOT serious in general) when I break into all caps.

Now I might be confused because I haven't played in quite awhile, but isn't it true that in PSO, Forces would cast through certain weapons? I seem to remember Zonde coming out of the tip of my rod, but I may be mistaken.

Vashyron
Jul 22, 2011, 11:17 PM
Doubt this was necessary, but since so many people are just going over it;

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12804628/PSO2/enemy-2.png

There are 3 Blue named characters which obviously signifies party members, 5 White and 1 covered by a text box. And this is Ignoring the Minimap and the Red Textbox.

I would really find it odd if a huge amount of NPCs with Player stats came and helped at any point, I mean why do that in a Online game.

I don't think it signifies another party in a instance either, because that screen would be showing at least 3 total, but both shown white? (This is assuming 4 players is max, if not unbalanced teams?)

Or it could mean there are non instanced areas.

Malachite
Jul 22, 2011, 11:24 PM
I think they're other players as well, not NPCs. It'd be silly for a game such as PSO, which is so focused on playing online with other people, to include such a high amount of NPCs during gameplay.

RenzokukenZ
Jul 22, 2011, 11:56 PM
Perhaps this is just a screen of one of those Interrupt Events, in which you have to help a team of NPCs take down this sub-boss.

Wayu
Jul 23, 2011, 12:22 AM
^

Sounds pretty feasible.

"Defend these n00bs" or something.

-Wayu

Zyrusticae
Jul 23, 2011, 12:28 AM
(╬ ಠ益ಠ) Screenshots, why you not bigger?!

GRAAAARRRRGH


They wouldn't bother me much either, it's just that they're so terribly low res that it's really easy to tell that it's....well, a texture. It stretches and whatnot all over the terrain. When you get close up on it, or look at it from any kind of angle, it just makes the game look about 5 years older than it should.

It's like a lazy placeholder, honestly.


The most surprising thing to me about this game? Sonic Team seems to be completely ignoring any kind of lighting techniques or shaders. Not even bump/normal mapping. No dynamic lights either. The environments look good content wise, but get close on any texture and it just looks flat and 2004ish.

Honestly, this looks like the PSU engine with higher-poly models.
First of all, they're definitely using normal mapping. It's just that the flat lighting makes it much harder to tell.

The lack of any fancy lighting is probably tied into the random map generation, that is to say, most games use pre-baked lighting and since the levels are subject to change (and they're pretty simplistic-looking to begin with) quite frequently, they simply can't afford to re-bake the lighting with every new map build. So it's simple. For now.

The lack of any visible dynamic lighting does rather suck, particularly considering, y'know, there's probably gonna be some lazors flying around. Hopefully it'll be something that shows up down the road.

The texture you guys are complaining about is being viewed from a seriously sharp angle. Without massive anisotropic filtering it's going to look blurry regardless of the resolution.

Demon-
Jul 23, 2011, 12:42 AM
Still can't figure out that red chat box. It can't be from the white team because the guy saying GOGOGO has a regular chat box. It's also not comming from the party leader who's name way over to the left but you can't see him on the screen. Maybe it's like PSO and he's in town and his chatbox is randomly popping on screen? I doubt it is someone on the hill or comming from the monster. Boggles the mind this screen does lol.

Vashyron
Jul 23, 2011, 12:49 AM
Still can't figure out that red chat box. It can't be from the white team because the guy saying GOGOGO has a regular chat box. It's also not comming from the party leader who's name way over to the left but you can't see him on the screen. Maybe it's like PSO and he's in town and his chatbox is randomly popping on screen? I doubt it is someone on the hill or comming from the monster. Boggles the mind this screen does lol.

If you look at the Minimap there are 2 Dots ahead, that chat box is probably coming from one of them.

Demon-
Jul 23, 2011, 12:54 AM
Yeah it's definately one of them probably the fomar while he was jumping and it's red because it's a shout chatbox like in the gameplay video.

Kimil Adrayne
Jul 23, 2011, 01:40 AM
I don't see why some people assume the white text name'd charaters are NPCs. Back in the trailer, at 2:33,
http://youtu.be/zo4IsIp6CZQ?t=2m33s
The NPC's text box has a face/avatar in it, the "GOGOGO!" doesn't.

Here's hoping to multiple parties being able to play together versus NPC meat shields outnumbering player characters.

gordon/alpha999
Jul 23, 2011, 01:59 AM
Threw my eyes and imagination , that's a hildetor with gold horns and seaweed color fur! They must drop something rar. :D I will enjoy hurling monsters in the air when they don't drop my rarz >:D

landman
Jul 23, 2011, 04:41 AM
Grab attacks were the next thing I wanted to see in this series, every time I nanoblasted I wanted to grab a bildebear by its horns! But I always though it would require a bunch of animations to be programmed for every enemy, character size... so far we have yet to see something close to this, and they have only shown this chaos sword/kattar like weapon that can grapple enemies and swing them around, I only hope this will not stop here.


Floor texture is obvious to anyone, I really don't believe anyone who says "I don't care" has actually not noticed them, every non phantasy star related place I've posted the screenshots so far have received a bunch of insults because of those textures. Graphics really need to improve, even PSU could look far better with some light effects and textures.


PSU looks like it was developed from 2001-2002 and released 2003-2004. Makes sense if PSO2 looks like a PC game from 2006-2007, wouldn't you say?
I could name some 2006 and 2007 games with graphics far better than PSO2 looks so far, some of them even Japanese!



Now I might be confused because I haven't played in quite awhile, but isn't it true that in PSO, Forces would cast through certain weapons? I seem to remember Zonde coming out of the tip of my rod, but I may be mistaken.
And if you equipped a pair of mechs your zonde would come out from your feet, the point is that you were able to cast without a weapon equipped.

Niloklives
Jul 23, 2011, 05:08 AM
And if you equipped a pair of mechs your zonde would come out from your feet, the point is that you were able to cast without a weapon equipped.

Only if you were a RAmar iirc...I played most every class and I only remember RAmars being able to do that.

"En"
Jul 23, 2011, 05:16 AM
It was the Male casting animation. HUmar, RAmar, FOmar, and FOnewm would all cast spells with their feet if wielding a Mechgun-type weapon.

Darki
Jul 23, 2011, 05:18 AM
Excuse me, I just don't get what's so important about how a ground texture looks. If it's not important to key gameplay and how enjoyable it is, I don't see why the damn texture matters.

I've been playing videogames for over 25 years and to me gameplay, execution of game design, challenge level, control scheme, music, and oveall art style are what matters.

I just don't get whats the point of bitching about one ground texture in screenshots of an early build of the game.
Do players of WoW complain about individual textures or do they just play the game and enjoy it? I don't get the point in nitpicking on what is IMO a minor thing.

Well, that's a matter of opinion, because for me textures and graphics can matter over music, for example, seeing that I usually play with the game music off and my own music on.

So then when you come whining because the music is not up to your standards, do I have the right to shut you up saying that I don't get the point about nitpicking on a minor thing?

Damn, I would like to know what is the matter with people always complaining when someone discusses things in a discussion forums.

They're releasing those screens so we all can see how the game is going and give our opinion, and there's one: the floor texture sucks.

Justyn_Darkcrest
Jul 23, 2011, 05:26 AM
It was the Male casting animation. HUmar, RAmar, FOmar, and FOnewm would all cast spells with their feet if wielding a Mechgun-type weapon.

FOmar never had a casting animation using their feet (at least not in E.P. 1&2) regardless of weapon type.

"En"
Jul 23, 2011, 05:30 AM
FOmar never had a casting animation using their feet (at least not in E.P. 1&2) regardless of weapon type.

You're right. I spoke too soon on FOmar; I booted up PSO to double-check, and sure enough, FOmar waves the mechgun, rather than kicking the air. It may have something to do with the fact that the other three cases existed from earlier versions of PSO.

Or perhaps Sonic Team wasn't keen on players trying to see up the FOmar's robe.

ShadowDragon28
Jul 23, 2011, 06:34 AM
I never said or implied that people couldn't discuss the graphics in the game. I'm merely commenting on that I think is one ground texture minor thing to nitpick about when the game is still in development. Just an opinion, nothing more.

It's amazing that whenever someone expresses an opinion that runs contrary to others or has a difference of view contrary to others in a forum, some persons just have to get biligerent,defensive, and vaguely insulting. Just amazing.

Darki
Jul 23, 2011, 06:43 AM
I don't see where is the vague insult in my post. And in any case, even if it's a "minor" thing to you, it can be something interesting to others, as I said. You're the one who said that people was "bitching" about the textures, basically you were "bitching" about people "bitching".

Does that make sense?

If you have an opinion about the texture that's damn fine to me, but if you have an opinion about other people's opinions, don't complain if they also express their opinions about yours.

ShadowDragon28
Jul 23, 2011, 07:38 AM
Black pot, meet black kettle. ^_^ too funny.

What shall we discuss now? The curvature of the Hucaseal's ponytail, or the number of rivets on the Racast? *sarcasm* LOL....

Darki
Jul 23, 2011, 07:46 AM
We shall discuss whatever shit we want and if you don't like, you aren't getting paid to stay in the topic as far as I know... If there's nothing of your interest in the thread you can point another thing on topic to discuss, but whine because people is discussing something not of your interest... Well, you can whine all you want, I hope you don't mind uselessy losing your time.

ShadowDragon28
Jul 23, 2011, 07:48 AM
again I never said or implied people can't discuss things.


Moving on....

The new enemies look alot better art design wise than alot of basic enemies in PSU, in my view. The giant "Rock Bear" looks kinda cool, nice varient on Hildebear type enemy.

It would be nice if they bring back Grass Assasins, Slimes, Chaos Sorcerers, Dark Bringers and other enemies derived from Phantasy Star I, II, and IV. At least Rappies are back, and look more like classic Rappies.

Darki
Jul 23, 2011, 07:51 AM
Yet you complained about us discussing a specific thing.

ShadowDragon28
Jul 23, 2011, 07:59 AM
I'm moving on.

This thread is about the new pics of enemies and characters.... let's get back on topic now...

Totori
Jul 23, 2011, 08:09 AM
Yes that "Rock Bear" enemy look kinda like an enemy from Vesperia, also nice to see more than 6 people fighting at once.

ShadowDragon28
Jul 23, 2011, 08:12 AM
Actually the RockBear is more derived from PSO's Hildebear, just alot bigger, with more fur and yellow boney protusions. Here's a Hildebear. http://membres.multimania.fr/psoweb/Screens%20ennemis/Hildebear.jpg

Hrith
Jul 23, 2011, 08:27 AM
It's fun to see all the names for NPCs from PSO (Bernie, Gilliam, etc.). The RAmar is as ugly as ever, I hope we can remove the toilet bowl in this game >_>

Totori
Jul 23, 2011, 08:41 AM
Actually the RockBear is more derived from PSO's Hildebear, just alot bigger, with more fur and yellow boney protusions. Here's a Hildebear. http://membres.multimania.fr/psoweb/Screens%20ennemis/Hildebear.jpg

Of course I have played PSO would make more sence to say it looks like a Hildebear, because it's from PSO but how it resembles this monster from Tales of Vesperia, is also pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8N4vpQ-PKg

Aumi
Jul 23, 2011, 11:57 AM
Do want to see more of the RAcaseal! D: Hoping for a lot of great new info and footage from that presentation!

Omega-z
Jul 23, 2011, 12:50 PM
Actually It looks like a group of 9 ppl in that pic 4 blue and 5 white. blue name's first red is in the distance and his bubble is just centered, Green is the Racasel, Blue is the Force, Yellow is the human with the cover up you can see a short name barely thru white area which goes along with the yellow name. White names you see 5 in the pic. Blue Force is taking the pic, unless you think there is 1 more?. They could be Ncp's in a story part or another group with there bubbles grayed since there not in your party. But I don't think there player's but Ncp's since there is a white standing there but there's a blue standing there too. Who know's:-?

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 23, 2011, 01:58 PM
The RAmar is as ugly as ever, I hope we can remove the toilet bowl in this game >_>
How dare you sir, the RAmar is the biggest BA in that picture, not to mention it looks more like an armored life-vest.

NoiseHERO
Jul 23, 2011, 02:17 PM
It looks like he has a giant mechanical diaper on his back, to me...

At least with the old one you could see the back of his head... ]:

ShadowDragon28
Jul 23, 2011, 03:32 PM
yeah all the characters look like Smurfs with plastic armor! *sarcasm*

NoiseHERO
Jul 23, 2011, 03:54 PM
But it REALLY DOES look like a metal diaper.

yoshiblue
Jul 23, 2011, 04:08 PM
Thanks to that video I will never go adventuring with geomancers/summoners/evokers again. Lulz jk.

Music! I wish for a sample of the sound track. YES!

Kent
Jul 23, 2011, 05:19 PM
Why is it unfortunate that he's using a rod to cast?
Because there's still no evidence of being able to cast a technique without having a rod-like (or similar "Force-y" weapon) equipped. Despite what some people may think, this is actually an issue that could easily make or break the game, in the same matter that it killed PSU for quite a lot of people.

As in PSO, the primary benefit to playing as a Human or Newman character was your ability to use techniques at all - otherwise, you were almost guaranteed to be better-off as an Android if you were a Hunter or Ranger. However, even moderate technique usage (as is the case with HUmars and RAmars) can be a huge benefit, especially if you're playing without a Force in the group.

In the same vein, it opened up gameplay styles for Human Forces where they could rely on their weapons for damage, allowing them to be more effective as support characters, because they don't have to use their TP as a primary means of attacking, yet can still be very effective in combat. A lot of people really enjoyed these styles of hybrid gameplay, but if you have to bind techniques to rods, wands and the like in order to cast, we'll run into the same problem we did with PSU: People have to juggle weapons constantly in order to actually be able to have any real capacity for melee combat, which only institutes loading times between when a technique can be cast.

Being able to hit things with your rod is not an adequate substitute for that, because they're only very basic weapons, and don't have any of the amount of variety in functional uses as guns and other melee weapons will.

If they want to make rods and whatnot give a small boost to technique damage potential or something, or have them grant some sort of defensive benefit, that's fine. However, there's no real reason to restrict technique casting to these sorts of weapons, and all it does it fragment the flow of gameplay for anyone who wants to use techniques while doing anything else at all.

Jarek
Jul 23, 2011, 05:56 PM
Because there's still no evidence of being able to cast a technique without having a rod-like (or similar "Force-y" weapon) equipped. Despite what some people may think, this is actually an issue that could easily make or break the game, in the same matter that it killed PSU for quite a lot of people.

As in PSO, the primary benefit to playing as a Human or Newman character was your ability to use techniques at all - otherwise, you were almost guaranteed to be better-off as an Android if you were a Hunter or Ranger. However, even moderate technique usage (as is the case with HUmars and RAmars) can be a huge benefit, especially if you're playing without a Force in the group.

In the same vein, it opened up gameplay styles for Human Forces where they could rely on their weapons for damage, allowing them to be more effective as support characters, because they don't have to use their TP as a primary means of attacking, yet can still be very effective in combat. A lot of people really enjoyed these styles of hybrid gameplay, but if you have to bind techniques to rods, wands and the like in order to cast, we'll run into the same problem we did with PSU: People have to juggle weapons constantly in order to actually be able to have any real capacity for melee combat, which only institutes loading times between when a technique can be cast.

Being able to hit things with your rod is not an adequate substitute for that, because they're only very basic weapons, and don't have any of the amount of variety in functional uses as guns and other melee weapons will.

If they want to make rods and whatnot give a small boost to technique damage potential or something, or have them grant some sort of defensive benefit, that's fine. However, there's no real reason to restrict technique casting to these sorts of weapons, and all it does it fragment the flow of gameplay for anyone who wants to use techniques while doing anything else at all.

This, this, this.
I greatly disliked having to bind techs to weapons in psu instead of just being able to cast what I wanted with anything I wanted. Not only did it feel like my weapon was the only thing magical about my character, it added mircomanagement of having to switch between 6 weapons on the fly at any given moment. I almost never took a strictly 'magic-caster' weapon (rod/wand/cane) on my fomarl because I never need one to be effective.

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 23, 2011, 06:05 PM
snipped
Agreed, and well said Kent.
I believe if this was put to a poll we would get 90%, most of us here would echo those statements.

We will just have to wait and see what more pictures and footage shows us, before we can know for sure (man that gets old).

Enforcer MKV
Jul 23, 2011, 10:13 PM
Hey - in regards to the party, here's an idea; Maybe it's a hybrid of the multiple party idea that some people have, as well as a mix of the 6-man party from PSU? Like two teams of 6?

Given the fact that it's roughly 12 icons/names on the screen (between the minimap and the actual on-screen names) that seems like a possibility, at least to me.

Also, as some people have previously proposed, it's possible that this is one of the dynamic midrun events that was shown in the earlier trailer.

Another thought that crossed my mind was this; maybe they're going to add variable overall mission objectives to the mix, to give some variety to the "kill all monsters" model that has been the mainstay for so long - like, instead of simply going in and purifying an area, you go into the area to find a squad that went missing, so instead of the end-run "kill everything" deal, it's instead the "help us defend ourselves" deal. Granted, you're still killing things, but the tone is a little more urgent in the later, at least that's how the picture forms in my mind.

Sorry for the long post, btw. ^^;

RemiusTA
Jul 24, 2011, 12:16 AM
if there is no quick menu, then technics will be binded.

There's really no other way i can see them existing otherwise.

Sinue_v2
Jul 24, 2011, 01:46 AM
Text-Wall of Win

Out of all of my characters, I liked playing my Melee FOnewearl the most. She's also the character I played which got the most Guild Cards at the end of a run, because she was able to kick out decent damage flanking the straggler enemies that were going after the tanks while being right in the thick of combat with S/D, J/Z, and Resta on tap and able to accessed in a split second at optimal position for total room coverage. Basically, the only way I could be viable in melee was to be a grade-A support techer first. That, and I wasn't off in the corner distracted by trying to set off a chain of small thermo-nuclear explosion in the HU's faces while they're busy digging their swords out of a Booma's nugget. (plus, damage negation was a bitch) The only offensive tech I spammed (aside from the appropriate situation based tech) was Rabarta, for it's freezing effect.

I lost that with PSU, especially on the PS2 because of the ridiculous loading times between equipping a tech weapon and waiting for the spell to load into memory so I could cast it. I relied on that split-second reaction time to keep my team covered, and a split second was all that was needed to get people killed. I could never bring myself to play a dedicated support FO on PSU because of that, and fumbling with my GT/WT pallet became more of a exercise in frustration than in having fun. GT was a bit better with their crossbows, but it required that I have Gi/Resta on nearly every single slot - removing offensive/support tech capabilities in favor of redundancy.

serenade
Jul 24, 2011, 02:14 AM
Because there's still no evidence of being able to cast a technique without having a rod-like (or similar "Force-y" weapon) equipped. Despite what some people may think, this is actually an issue that could easily make or break the game, in the same matter that it killed PSU for quite a lot of people.

As in PSO, the primary benefit to playing as a Human or Newman character was your ability to use techniques at all - otherwise, you were almost guaranteed to be better-off as an Android if you were a Hunter or Ranger. However, even moderate technique usage (as is the case with HUmars and RAmars) can be a huge benefit, especially if you're playing without a Force in the group.

In the same vein, it opened up gameplay styles for Human Forces where they could rely on their weapons for damage, allowing them to be more effective as support characters, because they don't have to use their TP as a primary means of attacking, yet can still be very effective in combat. A lot of people really enjoyed these styles of hybrid gameplay, but if you have to bind techniques to rods, wands and the like in order to cast, we'll run into the same problem we did with PSU: People have to juggle weapons constantly in order to actually be able to have any real capacity for melee combat, which only institutes loading times between when a technique can be cast.

Being able to hit things with your rod is not an adequate substitute for that, because they're only very basic weapons, and don't have any of the amount of variety in functional uses as guns and other melee weapons will.

If they want to make rods and whatnot give a small boost to technique damage potential or something, or have them grant some sort of defensive benefit, that's fine. However, there's no real reason to restrict technique casting to these sorts of weapons, and all it does it fragment the flow of gameplay for anyone who wants to use techniques while doing anything else at all.

you basically just described why i loved FOmar so much. best. class. ever.

Demon-
Jul 24, 2011, 03:07 AM
Pretty sure you will be able to put techs in those number key slots and they won't be bound to weapons.

Malachite
Jul 24, 2011, 05:19 AM
if there is no quick menu, then technics will be binded.

There's really no other way i can see them existing otherwise.

Hotkey bar? lol

Also @ people telling me why it's unfortunate for spells to be cast out of weapons: I understand why it's bad for techniques to be bound to weapons. I don't need PSU's flaws described to me, I know them all too well. My point was that I seem to recall the some techniques, with certain weapons, being cast through said weapons when equipped in PSO.

Am I wrong there? Were there no animations that showed the tech coming from the weapon? My memory is pretty shitty.

hewitt
Jul 24, 2011, 05:23 AM
Hotkey bar? lol

lol was just thinking that.

Justyn_Darkcrest
Jul 24, 2011, 05:32 AM
Hotkey bar? lol

Also @ people telling me why it's unfortunate for spells to be cast out of weapons: I understand why it's bad for techniques to be bound to weapons. I don't need PSU's flaws described to me, I know them all too well. My point was that I seem to recall the some techniques, with certain weapons, being cast through said weapons when equipped in PSO.

Am I wrong there? Were there no animations that showed the tech coming from the weapon? My memory is pretty shitty.

While there were some casting animations with certain weapon type that showed the tech being cast from the weapon in PSO, it was purely looks as the weapon had no effect on the tech (in most cases).

What we're scared of is that the weapon will be the limiting factor on how many/what techs you can use at any given time as opposed to your character being the limiting factor. (Though you may already grasp this concept based on the post I just quoted). Just wording it in a slightly different way.

Niloklives
Jul 24, 2011, 05:36 AM
Yeah he gets it. Also there were some weapons that had casting low level versions of tech as their special attacks, like hildeblue cane and psycho wand. So he's not entirely wrong on that count.

Justyn_Darkcrest
Jul 24, 2011, 05:47 AM
Yeah he gets it. Also there were some weapons that had casting low level versions of tech as their special attacks, like hildeblue cane and psycho wand. So he's not entirely wrong on that count.

True, but that was a special that was unique to specific weapons. Doesn't really have anything to do with binding a characters techs to it since you were still able to use your other techs freely.

Niloklives
Jul 24, 2011, 06:00 AM
I think the point was that they took something from PSO and took it to another level and for better or worse, it had its roots in PSO

Malachite
Jul 24, 2011, 06:04 AM
While there were some casting animations with certain weapon type that showed the tech being cast from the weapon in PSO, it was purely looks as the weapon had no effect on the tech (in most cases).
Yes, that is exactly what I'm talking about. My point is that you shouldn't be worrying just because the screenshot shows the FOmar apparently casting from his cane, because this happened in PSO as well, and is most likely just an animation. I don't think techs will be bound to weapons. At least, I really hope not.

Justyn_Darkcrest
Jul 24, 2011, 06:19 AM
Yes, that is exactly what I'm talking about. My point is that you shouldn't be worrying just because the screenshot shows the FOmar apparently casting from his cane, because this happened in PSO as well, and is most likely just an animation. I don't think techs will be bound to weapons. At least, I really hope not.

Same here, I'm not jumping to any conclusions with this game. So until SEGA confirms or denies any of these things I'm not too worried. They know what the fans want. I'm still holding some hope out for a brand new tech system, and since it looks like they're adding some new creature interactions I'll remain hopeful until we know more.

NoiseHERO
Jul 24, 2011, 07:16 AM
Aside from the TECHS being weapon restricted, am I the only one that thinks the wand/rod animations for casting looks horrible in general? o_O (which is the part that actually bugs me)

If they look lame again, I might just end up skipping over force...(unless the TECHs look REALLY COOL, but so far I'm disappointed with what I'm assuming is our foie.)

Darki
Jul 24, 2011, 08:04 AM
I understand if people prefer techs not binded to weapon because it feels more "of the character" than binded, but I don't buy the explanation of loading times and stuff... <_<

¿Am I the only person who plays with more than 1 weapon? Why would it bother to me the time to switch to a wand but not to a different melee/ranged weapon?

I don't dislike non-binded TECh concept but I didn't find any problem in PSU except for the support part, as people is saying. For me it makes sense that to do magic you gotta swing a magic weapon and not a sword, and it would dissapoint me a lot if they didn't make tech weapons good enough to render melee weapons pretty weak compared to them in the tech field.

The support part could be solved simply by separating support from offensive TECHs and leaving them non-binded.

In any case, I see something in the photos that makes me not being too convinced about techs not being binded.

First, there's no "combo gauge" in the bar, and there's no melee attack icon. It could be that once you do a tech, the icon changes, same as it does when you do melee, and there's also a "magic combo" where you can do timed TECHs, like 3 foies in a row, or something like that, but the lack off combo gauge makes me doubt that. It just seems that the wand has Foie there and only Foie.

BUT, there's only ONE tech binded and I wouldn't believe they made wands to use only one techs, that would be crap. Unless there's a swap button and the icon changes to a secondary tech, that would make more sense at least taking the previous PSU experience where wands had 2 techs binded.

It could also be that you can bind a tech to a wand, to unlock a special effect, but you can also keep the tech off-weapon for the normal use. That way if you have a wand without the tech binded you'd do the normal melee attack and if you bind a TECH, it gets a new effect, for example casting mid-air.

That wouldn't seem too bad for me. It would leave techs to use to whoever wants it but techers would do the best use of them by means of binding them, when needed.

Justyn_Darkcrest
Jul 24, 2011, 08:37 AM
Honestly, in most cases the tech loading complaints centered around PSU are probably referring to the PS2 version, where every time you switched to a different weapon you had to was several seconds before the techs would load properly. Other than that I see your point and think that could be a happy middle ground.

GCoffee
Jul 24, 2011, 08:48 AM
The problem was not the execution of the tech-binding per se, but the lack of variety of gameplay styles a force could develop in PSU due to it.
Without tech binding you were entitled to use whatever weapon you took a liking to, while in PSU it had to be either a wand or a rod. The lack of variety could get rather boring in the long term, but was even more problematic in the beginning of your force career, when you often would get frustrated about the fact that you could deal much more damage with weapon pa right now, but cannot use one. The horribly slow tech leveling did not help that.

Sinue_v2
Jul 24, 2011, 09:40 AM
Honestly, in most cases the tech loading complaints centered around PSU are probably referring to the PS2 version, where every time you switched to a different weapon you had to was several seconds before the techs would load properly. Other than that I see your point and think that could be a happy middle ground.

For the most part, the problem was largely on the PS2. The problem I had on the 360 was the framerate which fluctuated and made it difficult at times to swap weapons because the pallet wouldn't move as fast as my fingers and I'd often land on the weapon just above or just below my support setup. For a FO, this might not be as much of a problem, but when you're already fighting against time when stuck in a lengthy PA - it's frustrating. Again, more of an issue with my WT than my GT.

The PC version I had the least problems with, so long as I turned Post-Effects off. Once they shut the PC/PS2 down, my time on the 360 was spent mostly lvling up my Acrofighter where I wasn't expected to cast support.


The experience is just... unintuitive and felt clunky. PSO and PSZero's binding of techs to the caster was a more seamless, engaging, and fun experience. If I'm sitting on a Go Booma's shoulders digging it's eyeballs out with my claws, I don't want to have to ask it for a time-out, jump off and switch my entire equipment setup to a dainty frilly little wand every few moments when the HUmar impales himself with his own J-Sword.

Malachite
Jul 24, 2011, 09:43 AM
Aside from the TECHS being weapon restricted, am I the only one that thinks the wand/rod animations for casting looks horrible in general? o_O (which is the part that actually bugs me)

If they look lame again, I might just end up skipping over force...(unless the TECHs look REALLY COOL, but so far I'm disappointed with what I'm assuming is our foie.)

How can you assume to know what the full animation, consisting of hundreds of frames, looks like from a single still shot?

Also, what is this talk of weapon binded techs being somewhat acceptable? Ridiculous. It was by far the worst mistake in PSU. Completely ruined Forces, imo.

NoiseHERO
Jul 24, 2011, 10:39 AM
It's pretty obvious to tell with one frame the possible animations TECHers could have. and to me it just looks like PSU's ugly tennis/leaf blower wand/rod waves. The air-attack image however, is meh. They can definitely look a LOT more interesting.

I don't need a full animation to tell that there's not anything cool looking going on. :\

Hell, even a simple handpoint would look better (which is why I liked tech mags.)

Vashyron
Jul 24, 2011, 11:02 AM
On the whole "Are those NPC or Players thing" I noticed something today that's right there in clear text: http://bumped.org/psublog/phantasy-star-online-2-enemies-development-screenshots


Well in these images below, Bunkohara has each player character use a name from PSO. However there are no NPCs from PSO in this game.

And the players in white are using PSO NPC names. :wacko:

RemiusTA
Jul 24, 2011, 11:05 AM
leaf blower rofl



On the whole "Are those NPC or Players thing" I noticed something today that's right there in clear text: http://bumped.org/psublog/phantasy-s...nt-screenshots (http://bumped.org/psublog/phantasy-star-online-2-enemies-development-screenshots)


well of course. Even if the storyline is canon to the PSO storyline, everyone would be dead already.

Vashyron
Jul 24, 2011, 11:20 AM
Was actually trying to point out that he calls everyone with a PSO name a "player character."

Guess it's not impossible he grouped both sides if they are NPCs though, but would seem like bad wording if they were, though I am taking this from this translations wording of it.


Here's Espio's translation of that: http://psu.system11.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=143#p1595


Ah, in today's screens, player names are taken from PSO NPCs. Those same NPCs don't actually appear in this game, however....Where it's Player alone seems even less ambiguous..

Enforcer MKV
Jul 24, 2011, 11:20 AM
I know this is detracting from what is currently being discussed, but I just realized something that was pointed out in the link....

THAT CAST LOOKS LIKE IT'S BOOSTING! :D :D :D :D

Now that that is out of my system (:D), could this movement power be linked to the drape that was shown on the HuCAST's back? Perhaps that attachment links to distance, duration, etc?

I actually really loved PSU (It was my first Phantasy Star title), and then I picked up PS0 on the DS, and I still play it. I'm definitely looking forward to the Announcements on the 26th. Only two days, everybody! ^^

Randomness
Jul 24, 2011, 11:23 AM
The experience is just... unintuitive and felt clunky. PSO and PSZero's binding of techs to the caster was a more seamless, engaging, and fun experience. If I'm sitting on a Go Booma's shoulders digging it's eyeballs out with my claws, I don't want to have to ask it for a time-out, jump off and switch my entire equipment setup to a dainty frilly little wand every few moments when the HUmar impales himself with his own J-Sword.

This description is made of win.

Darki
Jul 24, 2011, 12:26 PM
The experience is just... unintuitive and felt clunky. PSO and PSZero's binding of techs to the caster was a more seamless, engaging, and fun experience. If I'm sitting on a Go Booma's shoulders digging it's eyeballs out with my claws, I don't want to have to ask it for a time-out, jump off and switch my entire equipment setup to a dainty frilly little wand every few moments when the HUmar impales himself with his own J-Sword.

I ask again: And why isn't that a problem when you switch between melee weapons?

This is pretty funny, and I don't talk about your opinion personally but I see people complaining about switching between weapons to get a wand but it doesn't seem stupid to switch between weapons to get a saber from a handgun when you could carry both in your hands.

I could make out the same story saying thatif I were shooting off that Go Booma's eyes I wouldn't want to take a time-out to pick a saber when gotten in close range because of PSO drama when I could be dual wielding them.

I don't say that for your post, but it's a feeling I've gotten from posts in this sub-forum. It's a nice story but I still don't see anything wrong about tech weapons used to, uh, teching. I still see logical that if you're a force you use techs and if you're a hunter you use swords, so even if you had the possibility of using techs as a hunter, why would it be an issue that you gotta "take time out " to pick the wand when you can just finish poking out the eyes of that Go Booma with the claws?


The problem was not the execution of the tech-binding per se, but the lack of variety of gameplay styles a force could develop in PSU due to it.
Without tech binding you were entitled to use whatever weapon you took a liking to, while in PSU it had to be either a wand or a rod. The lack of variety could get rather boring in the long term, but was even more problematic in the beginning of your force career, when you often would get frustrated about the fact that you could deal much more damage with weapon pa right now, but cannot use one. The horribly slow tech leveling did not help that.

Lack of variety? I never lacked variety playing WT, or GT or even FT. Of course there's lack of variety if you played master classes, but those classes were a plain retarded idea, cutting off class variance and taking off almost all weapons from their palettes.

About the PA level and stuff, I completely agree, but I don't see that a reason to make techs not binded to weapon. As any techer but MF you had more weapons that what fitted in a palette.

yoshiblue
Jul 24, 2011, 12:35 PM
Are you trying to piss people off? Weapon swaping was part of a melee/rangers life. They used the weapon they wanted to use. Having to wait between swaps just to use a spell let alone haveing a backup when the first runs dry was dumb. I don't want to wait for a swap to buff my guns and swords then heal myself getting hit while waiting for the load only to wait again just to attack. No, its just not right.

Another thing would be form. Maybe I want to attack with a saber using two hands for more speed and power. With the recoil that was in PSO, I doubt you would hit alot more using one hand. Not weirdy PSU (I played PSU more then PSO so don't even think about this being bias) with this run and gun were I fling my frail little arms and do massive damage.

Darki
Jul 24, 2011, 12:58 PM
I don't try to piss people off but I see the same argument in the weapon-switching issue for wands than in the dual wielding issue. You say that what if you wanna pick the saber with two hands for more power, well, I shoot back: what if I wanna cast my spells with a wand for more power? Is EXACTLY the same thing.

I've said already that I don't think the same about support, there youy're right but same that you don't need to swap your weapons to use a monomate, I don't see why couldn't they make supportive techs non-bound so you can cast them whenever you want, is not like you need ANY tech stat to buff you up and Resta is usually too broken in any PS to matter too much that you cast it with a wand or not (or in PSU, with a beast or a newman).

But the point is, that aside, that if people believes that dual-wielding SHOULDN'T be in PSO2 for the reasons you just said, I could use those exact reasons to say that techs should be bound to tech weapons. If you say that techs shouldn't be bound so you can have more versatility despite the power loss of not using them with a wand, then that same reasonement could be used to say that I could prefer to pick a saber and a gun together despite the power loss, just for the versartility.

Of course the best option would be, BOTH. If you're carrying only a saber you should get a power boost, if you bind techs to the wand too, and if you put a handgun there, or you don't bind the techs, then you have more versatility but your techs will be worse. In any case, I still don't see the problem, specially when you just said that shuffling weapons was part of a hunter/ranger life, so why the problem of shuffling to pick a wand? I still see more logical that techs were much more powerful casted from a weapon designed for teching than with one designed to whack off things, enough to make it worth shuffling for a wand, and the fact that techs were almost as useful when you used melee weapons instead of tech weapons shows me a lack of balance in PSO.

RemiusTA
Jul 24, 2011, 01:01 PM
Look, the issue with technic binding:

1) You needed access to more spells than you were allowed. 6 elements, minimum of 4 technic attacks per element, only 4 spots to place them in. Need to buff yourself? No problem, just put all 4 buffs on a rod. Too bad you just wasted a spot on your action pallet (That you could very easily just quick-menu in PSO, without changing anything.)


2) It changed the element on the weapon, and thus pretty much ruined any benefits of being smart with your rod/wand.

3) most importantly, it completely ruined you in terms of efficient damage. The first time you find, oh lets say a Halarod, it's going to be your most powerful weapon, but you can only put 4 spells on it. That pretty much is going to equate to you having to switch the spells on your rod at least a couple times during a stage. It's even WORSE if you're soloing.

Technic Binding was bad, but the icing on the cake was your Technic Damage in PSU being determined on your weapon, instead of your character. That pretty much ruined everything.



Those are the main issues with it. PSU was a good game, but seriously, 90% of the gameplay systems introduced into it were absolutely terrible. Calling PSO's mechanics "outdated" is the dumbest shit i've ever heard. I'd almost venture to say ALL OF THEM were executed better than PSU's.

yoshiblue
Jul 24, 2011, 01:05 PM
The best solution would be to just makeing bound techniques optional for the extra boost. Swapping for for a force was dumb but was the only way to do it in the PSP games. Swapping in a pc game was unnecessary. I never said there shouldn't be duel wielding but I dont want to wait just to use spells when I do run out of mates.

Darki
Jul 24, 2011, 01:14 PM
I understand your point but I see still many issues somehow. First of all I don't see why techs should be bound to weapon, but I don't see either why tech damage should rely ONLY on the character and not melee, for example. Same that a spell is supposed to be cast using the strenght of your mind, you swing a weapon with the strenght of your body, so then it shouldn't matter the weapon either for melee.

For me it makes more sense that same that to whack off the boss you gotta pick a good sword, to nuke it you gotta pick a good wand, and that's all. You could still use spells with a sword, but the damage be balanced, and if you're pwn all enemies easily because your sword is very strong, then your techs should suck, and if you're going to nuke the field off, then the weapon you're using, be it melee or tech, should be weak on melee. If you pick a weapon that does average tech damage then melee can be average too. Same goes with guns and/or with dual wielding.

Because if not everybody is going to be with the strong weapon and the strong techs, and people who likes only techs or only melee are going to be at a dissadvantage from the people who uses both, and I don't want PSO2 having the worst issue that I see in PSU: class and damage balance, people playing just the same 3 classes with the same weapon and the same PAs over and over, and anybody who doesn't do that is a n00b.

And I repeat myself, about the support spell issue, I do like the idea of them split from PSU, in case techs were linked to weapon, support ones could still be free to use when needed.

Enforcer MKV
Jul 24, 2011, 01:17 PM
I think the issue here is convienence, really. I'll use my experiences as an example (I play a CAST Guntecher)

There have been instances when I'm the only force type in the party, and we're engaging large groups of hostiles. During the fight, me and my party members take damage, obviously. Now, usually, using PSU's system, I'd have to take the time to:

A). Open my palette

B). Switch to the appropriate wand, and;

C-1). Cast the spell, or;

(If they aren't close enough)

C-2). Run to them, and then;

D). Cast the spell.

Now, lets take a look at PSO's system, shall we? Assuming that spells are linked to the bar at the bottom. (Which I for one believe is a same assumption), I would have to:

A-1). Cast the spell, or

(Again, if not close enough)

A-2). Run to them, and then;

B). Cast the spell.

In the later case, there is no need to take the time to switch, you just cast directly, so you same a a few seconds of fussing about with the menu. Seconds can mean the difference between a scape doll and continuing the fight uninterrupted. If you have offensive technigues, you can attack with weapons, then go seemlessly to a fireball (Or magic missile, if you prefer ;-)), before transitioning back to melee attacks, without dealing with a menu.

Now, even if they still have a palette for switching between different melee and/or ranged weapons, I think we can agree that having techniques bound to characters, and not to weapons, just gives us one less thing to worry about.

Does that all make sense?

Oh, btw - sorry about the wall o'text. ^^;

Darki
Jul 24, 2011, 01:21 PM
That might work for support, but in the offensive part I don't see why you don't have to worry about having the correct weapon to cast a spell but you gotta do it wigh guns or melee.

Why can a force whack a monster with a weapon and also have the option to "not to worry" about switching to a wand, but another player will have to worry about picking the correct weapon in case he doesn't use techs?

Again, support could be free of weapons, but for offensive spell it makes more sense to me that, even if they're not bound to weapons, you do more damage with a tech weapon, duh. Why would they add tech weapons then, to make it nice with the costume? Same that in PSO you could attack with your body when not carrying a weapon, but that damage was crap compared to when using weapons, if you're not carrying a force weapon techs shouldn't be that powerful. They might have a secondary use when not for damage, like SEs, and that could be a good use: a HU could use techs with a melee weapon to freee/burn monsters, but the damage should be crap compared to if you're a force thowing off spells from a cane.

For me that makes more sense. <_<

yoshiblue
Jul 24, 2011, 01:21 PM
Its all good. Sometimes I do the same thing.

A force isn't ment for melee though. Theres a risk for closing in on an enemy as a force.

Enforcer MKV
Jul 24, 2011, 01:29 PM
Well - Obviously you'd do more with Tech weapons, that's their purpose.

It's the purpose of the tech weapon to strengthen Techniques BEYOND that of the body, right?

It's a matter of efficiency versus power - if you have the melee or ranged weapon, and choose to use techniques, you sacrifice power. If you use the Tech weapons, you don't have as much melee capability, but you can melt their faces off faster. :lol:

Ceresa
Jul 24, 2011, 01:56 PM
Funny, I recall in PSO that every attack tech I used was with agni/indra/dagon until I got pwand/summit moon. Red/Blue/Yellow merges too. Techs might as well have been binded to my weapons. Throwing away 20-30% modifiers because I can't be assed to take half a second to weapon swap never occurred to me.

Well anyways keep identifying yourselves as shitty PSO forces, I guess.

yoshiblue
Jul 24, 2011, 02:28 PM
lul what? ಠ_ಠ

Enforcer MKV
Jul 24, 2011, 02:37 PM
I was thinking the same thing, actually. ^^;

Niloklives
Jul 24, 2011, 02:41 PM
It's called min-maxing and most people can't be bothered to go into the inventory and change gear every time they want to cast foie vs barta. I'd say the time you're taking to switch to a different barrier for the damage boost or even to a different weapon in the quick menu is cutting into your casting. in the time it takes you to do all that I could cast just about any spell 2-3 times. it's fine to want those boosts on a boss whoc is weak to an element, but in groups where the mobs have mixed weaknesses, you're just wasting time.

In any case, it's a matter of styles and I doubt either one makes any real difference in the long run.


Well anyways keep identifying yourselves as shitty PSO forces, I guess.

Way to Identify yourself as a shortsighted tool.

Enforcer MKV
Jul 24, 2011, 02:45 PM
I agree with Nilok, people just have different ways of playing, even within their role. It's all a matter of preference. :-)

Niloklives
Jul 24, 2011, 02:47 PM
Nilok

Enforcer MKV
Jul 24, 2011, 02:56 PM
Ah, pardon my mistake. ^^;

Already fixed. :D

landman
Jul 24, 2011, 03:45 PM
Support in PSU is not a matter of seconds, that's why trimates exist, anyone waiting for the techer to cast resta deserves to lose a scape doll, someone is frozen? then better have your star atomizer and/or sol atomizer at hand, there is not one single mission in the game that requires more than 20 trimates playing in a group, healing from time to time is a plus, giresta cumulative regen will do the rest. And Wartecher and Guntecher are not limited... if they are using single handed weapons, the other hand can manage a debuf spell and resta easily.

Hrith
Jul 24, 2011, 03:51 PM
Because of its gameplay regarding technics, PSU, compared to PSO, has been a huge excuse for Forces to become awful players.

It's just that, though, an excuse.

Malachite
Jul 24, 2011, 04:21 PM
It absolutely baffles my mind that people are actually defending the ridiculously awful mechanic that is tech binding.

Angelo
Jul 24, 2011, 04:23 PM
Because of its gameplay regarding technics, PSU, compared to PSO, has been a huge excuse for Forces to become awful players.

It's just that, though, an excuse.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like as of the recent games the scales have sort of tipped since PSO. I remember FO being a recommendation for 'advanced' players, but these days I usually urge newbies to try FO.

Randomness
Jul 24, 2011, 04:28 PM
It's called min-maxing and most people can't be bothered to go into the inventory and change gear every time they want to cast foie vs barta. I'd say the time you're taking to switch to a different barrier for the damage boost or even to a different weapon in the quick menu is cutting into your casting. in the time it takes you to do all that I could cast just about any spell 2-3 times. it's fine to want those boosts on a boss whoc is weak to an element, but in groups where the mobs have mixed weaknesses, you're just wasting time.

In any case, it's a matter of styles and I doubt either one makes any real difference in the long run.



Way to Identify yourself as a shortsighted tool.

It's fine, I suppose, for missions where you know everything is going to die to zonde (Like Mines, where everything dies to zonde, including the boss, who is laughably easy with Razonde spam)

NoiseHERO
Jul 24, 2011, 04:39 PM
Well anyways keep identifying yourselves as shitty PSO forces, I guess.

You should be ashamed of yourself. ]:

yoshiblue
Jul 24, 2011, 04:47 PM
You should be ashamed of yourself. ]:

Its to be expected from a so called "elitest".

Enforcer MKV
Jul 24, 2011, 05:00 PM
I feel like I'm being berated for taking my job seriously. ^^;

GCoffee
Jul 24, 2011, 05:22 PM
What if this is indeed just an interrupt event where you find another team or two of NPC hunters taking on a large enemy and aid it/them?
For those who say 'but those NPCS have weird names!', perhaps that kind of interrupt events will add NPCs that reflect people from your cardlist or support characters.

Yeah, just another idea out of many, but a pretty cool one, me thinks.

yoshiblue
Jul 24, 2011, 05:28 PM
Maybe it will be like Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced 2(!!!) were they implemented speed battles.

-First team to slay the boss/designated target wins.

r00tabaga
Jul 24, 2011, 05:30 PM
What if this is indeed just an interrupt event where you find another team or two of NPC hunters taking on a large enemy and aid it/them?
For those who say 'but those NPCS have weird names!', perhaps that kind of interrupt events will add NPCs that reflect people from your cardlist or support characters.

Yeah, just another idea out of many, but a pretty cool one, me thinks.

If U find other teams while encountering a boss (interupt event) I will be very impressed.

AfroGuy!
Jul 24, 2011, 05:36 PM
did anyone but me notice that the RAmar's left foot is floating?

Enforcer MKV
Jul 24, 2011, 05:38 PM
Nah, it has to do with terrain detection.

Darki
Jul 24, 2011, 05:59 PM
It absolutely baffles my mind that people are actually defending the ridiculously awful mechanic that is tech binding.

It's curious, because it baffles my mind that people defend the ridiculously awful mechanic of single-wielding.

I don't really defend tech-binding at all, but I don't want the game to have tech weapons as a thing to look nice on your travesti FO outfit. I don't want tech binding except in the fact that casting techs with a wand equipped should be significantly better than doing with any other weapon.

BIG OLAF
Jul 24, 2011, 06:01 PM
I don't understand how the topic shifted from talking about the enemies/screenshots to what type of teching people would prefer.

Enforcer MKV
Jul 24, 2011, 06:03 PM
casting techs with a wand equipped should be significantly better than doing with any other weapon.

This.

I don't understand how the topic shifted from talking about the enemies/screenshots to what type of teching people would prefer.

......Actually, now that it's being mentioned....

....This as well. ^^;

Angelo
Jul 24, 2011, 06:34 PM
To throw my two cents in, I think weapon swapping was absolutely ridiculous in PSU. Forces actually feel they're the one that got shafted the most in that situation? At least their rods could bind 4 techs, us Fortefighters had to stick to ONE tech.

I don't know if I'd be okay with single-weapon use, but at the same time PSU's expectation of using your entire palette of 6 is, at best, min-maxing busywork.

Then again I'm probably one of the few that would like to see this game move away from min-maxing and rare-hunting and more towards casual 'pick-up-and-play', and team tactics.

r00tabaga
Jul 24, 2011, 06:35 PM
......Actually, now that it's being mentioned....

....This as well. ^^;

Double post much? First two times I let go. ;)

Enforcer MKV
Jul 24, 2011, 06:36 PM
Anyway, so what does everyone think about that extra movement power CASTs are supposedly getting? It sure looks like it's some kind of slide, like the Shinowa or the Grinna had.

@R00tabaga - Eheheheheheheh ^^; Sorry, it's a bad habit. :lol:

r00tabaga
Jul 24, 2011, 06:53 PM
Anyway, so what does everyone think about that extra movement power CASTs are supposedly getting? It sure looks like it's some kind of slide, like the Shinowa or the Grinna had.

@R00tabaga - Eheheheheheheh ^^; Sorry, it's a bad habit. :lol:

No worries. I really was just playing. I got crushed one time for DP'ing and felt like giving it back to someone finally.

Darki
Jul 24, 2011, 08:02 PM
I don't understand how the topic shifted from talking about the enemies/screenshots to what type of teching people would prefer.

I'd say simply because this is the first screen we have where we can actually see the plaher HUD of a Force.

RemiusTA
Jul 24, 2011, 09:48 PM
Funny, I recall in PSO that every attack tech I used was with agni/indra/dagon until I got pwand/summit moon. Red/Blue/Yellow merges too. Techs might as well have been binded to my weapons. Throwing away 20-30% modifiers because I can't be assed to take half a second to weapon swap never occurred to me.

Well anyways keep identifying yourselves as shitty PSO forces, I guess.


Rofl, here's this guy comes again

Chaobo99
Jul 24, 2011, 10:53 PM
I hope for alliances. And I guess everyone can go into first-person mode like in PSU because i'm guessing that's how he took the snapshot.

Edit: NVM, the guy taking the snapshot is the techer ^^;

Checkmate
Jul 24, 2011, 11:10 PM
Damn these pics... I want more gameplay videos!!!

I do like these RAcast models... it will creates the ease of making my toons more Gundam-like.

yoshiblue
Jul 24, 2011, 11:16 PM
I what to see what the sharks look like now

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 24, 2011, 11:21 PM
I count ten players in the last screen shot, is that what everyone else has?

RemiusTA
Jul 24, 2011, 11:25 PM
Funny, I recall in PSO that every attack tech I used was with agni/indra/dagon until I got pwand/summit moon. Red/Blue/Yellow merges too. Techs might as well have been binded to my weapons. Throwing away 20-30% modifiers because I can't be assed to take half a second to weapon swap never occurred to me.

Well anyways keep identifying yourselves as shitty PSO forces, I guess.

Using a weapon with a modifier isn't the same thing as complete reliance on a weapon for damage.

And switching weapons to get the % bonuses in PSO and changing the technics on your weapons in PSU were not the same thing. It's pointless to try to argue that they were. For one, it was a choice in PSO, while it was a necessity in PSU.

And while we're at it, i really dont give a shit how good of a force you were or how bad of a force i was, because...well, nobody gives a shit. As much better as PSO's system was to PSU, PSO still had its flaws. The failure of the force weapons to be of much use outside of weapons with modifiers was one of them.


Because of its gameplay regarding technics, PSU, compared to PSO, has been a huge excuse for Forces to become awful players.

It's just that, though, an excuse.
This is laughable. Please entertain me by elaborating.


Anyway, so what does everyone think about that extra movement power CASTs are supposedly getting? It sure looks like it's some kind of slide, like the Shinowa or the Grinna had.
Probably. Honestly, i dont see how it's going to be all that useful. You can dodge roll, jump and block. That cast is a RANGER, so the only thing he'd be using it for was retreating.

A neat perk, i guess. But im curious how it'll be helpful in the long run. Unless the sprinting feature seen by the humar and hunewearl are fleshie exclusive. (which i could definitely see, that cast is huge.)

Niloklives
Jul 25, 2011, 01:14 AM
if he can shoot while sliding around, that could made for a high speed strafe and fire mechanic available only to casts.

think about it

blace
Jul 25, 2011, 01:18 AM
if he can shoot while sliding around, that could made for a high speed strafe and fire mechanic available only to casts.

think about it
Sega's already done that.

Edit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prYMsbY3NNU

Angelo
Jul 25, 2011, 01:42 AM
I count ten players in the last screen shot, is that what everyone else has?

If you count the 'red text' in the distance as the tenth, then yes, I got 10.

Niloklives
Jul 25, 2011, 01:44 AM
Sega's already done that.

Edit: &#x202a;Vanquish: Shooter Gameplay&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prYMsbY3NNU)

I think that only strengthens my argument.

RemiusTA
Jul 25, 2011, 02:10 AM
if he can shoot while sliding around, that could made for a high speed strafe and fire mechanic available only to casts.

think about it


I mean....yeah, i guess. I just dont see how it'd be all that supar useful in this game. You never had to get hit in PSU.

It'd be cool though, so whatever.

Niloklives
Jul 25, 2011, 02:10 AM
this isn't PSU

RemiusTA
Jul 25, 2011, 02:20 AM
It plays like PSU though?

ShadowDragon28
Jul 25, 2011, 02:22 AM
I hope they let normal, and 2 hit and 3-hit combo attacks (that are NOT Photon Arts that suck up PP) do decent to above average damage, so players don't have to spam melee PA's just to even cause damage on enemies.

The one thing that BUGED the heck out of me in PSU, was having to basically rely on PA's just to cause any significant damage on enemies. Normal melee attacks seemed to barely cause any damage at all, and it really got annoying after a time...

RemiusTA
Jul 25, 2011, 02:23 AM
Watching the video, i think it's pretty clear that the game doesn't share PSU's combo system.

blace
Jul 25, 2011, 02:30 AM
I don't think there ever was any link to PSU. Game is based on Earth sometime in the future, all robots are mindless and controlled by one guy and no photon weapons.

AfroGuy!
Jul 25, 2011, 02:38 AM
that sounds almost like PSZ

ARASHIKAGE
Jul 25, 2011, 03:29 AM
If you count the 'red text' in the distance as the tenth, then yes, I got 10.
There's a player behind the RAmars left leg, and of course the Force taking the photo, the other eight are clearly visible. Maybe this is just a separate team competition mode, if I saw ten players running around the narrow levels we saw in the video, I would think it to be too crowed.

Chaobo99
Jul 25, 2011, 03:34 AM
It would make sense for a "multiple party" system simply because of support role classes. If they were all in one party, 1 Force casting resta/Anti/reverser is enough for everyone if they don't disperse.

Angelo
Jul 25, 2011, 03:47 AM
There are going to be some serious meltdowns from the PSO purists if this game ends up having some type of open world.

Niloklives
Jul 25, 2011, 04:08 AM
no PS ORPG had an open world, so don't think you have to be a PSO purist to feel that way =/

Demon-
Jul 25, 2011, 06:53 AM
Maybe it's 3 teams competing in the same mission and it was a race to the end to kill the miniboss first.

Kent
Jul 25, 2011, 07:09 AM
As much better as PSO's system was to PSU, PSO still had its flaws. The failure of the force weapons to be of much use outside of weapons with modifiers was one of them. This is laughable. Please entertain me by elaborating.
I am of the opinion that weapons and techniques (and by extension, traps) should be wholly-independant of each other. Some minor passive bonuses between them, sure, why not? The point being, they're minor.

I completely agree that PSO had a massive failing in the purpose of the Force weapons... Because there was no real point to them. If you were looking for a weapon to take into melee combat, there were plenty of bladed weapons to choose from, all of them (mostly) functionally-distinct from one another. If you wanted to attack from range, well, there's plenty of guns to choose from. Force weapons, however, only saw Wands as having a distinct purpose from other weapons, in that they gave a very minor boost to MST which usually resulted in a handful of points of more damage. Naturally, there were some rare Force weapons that had bigger passive bonuses (such as +10% to basic technique damage, and things like that)... But this is another case of poor design.

A weapon should, first and foremost, exist for the purposes of specifically being used as a weapon.

There are a couple blindingly-obvious ways to solve the problem of Force weapons, and you can see that they somewhat started to tilt in this direction in PSO as of Episodes I & II: All Force weapons gave some sort of statistical benefit. Canes have bonus EVP, Rods gave bonus DFP, Wands gave bonus MST. Functionally though, they were still massive failures as weapons, because they had no real purpose other than being a "stat stick," only very rarely used to cause an enemy to flinch with an attack, or to steal TP from an away-facing enemy.

My personal suggestion would be to redesign "force" weapons as a series of defensive weapons - weapons intended to cause enemies to be pushed back, get flinched more easily or inflict status effects of some sort. Weapons intended not for specifically damaging or killing enemies, but for providing the player with a defensive advantage over them that isn't merely a handful of uninteresting stat bonuses.

Wouldn't it be much more interesting if Canes always caused an enemy to flinch, Rods would push enemies back even on normal attacks, and Wands could inflict Slow as a baseline ability? It would give them purpose, which as weapons, is something they lack entirely other than being either a decoration or stats to fill an otherwise-unused slot.

That's not to say that a weapon providing stats or other passive benefits is a bad thing by necessity, it's just that a weapon should really have a purpose other than just providing stats. Providing stats and nothing more is a sign of poor design.

Hrith
Jul 25, 2011, 07:36 AM
This is laughable. Please entertain me by elaborating.What's laughable is that you dare think you know more about the games than I do.

If you were a good FO in PSU, good for you, so were Ryna, Scythe and Dana and several others with whom I played, but the vast majority of PSU forces sucked, which was not the case in PSO.

A good example of this is that in PSO, when you as a hunter or ranger died, the force apologised and did all they could to ensure you did not lose another scape doll (not for what a scape doll was worth, obviously).

In PSU, when you died when a force could have saved you, they'd say they were too lazy to change weapons to cast Resta and it was for what scape dolls were. Ergo using the system as an excuse for their being an awful player (usually coupled with a very bad mentality).

Darki
Jul 25, 2011, 08:35 AM
^ ... Or the scape dolls shouldn't be buyable.

In your example, I see multiple solutions, and the main problem in this case isn't force system sucking, but supportive items being too easy to get. If you couldn't buy scapes and/or carry only one or two, people would have taken more seriously the role of a force for healing.

D-Inferno
Jul 25, 2011, 08:37 AM
In the screenshot with many players/npcs/ect, in the bottom right corner, there is the enemy info box.

What does the textbox say?

NoiseHERO
Jul 25, 2011, 08:41 AM
Probably Rockbear...lvl 12...

NATIVE(I dunno)

Enforcer MKV
Jul 25, 2011, 08:54 AM
Probably. Honestly, i dont see how it's going to be all that useful. You can dodge roll, jump and block. That cast is a RANGER, so the only thing he'd be using it for was retreating.

A neat perk, i guess. But im curious how it'll be helpful in the long run. Unless the sprinting feature seen by the humar and hunewearl are fleshie exclusive. (which i could definitely see, that cast is huge.)

I know that most CASTs are rangers, but what of HuCASTs?

Honestly, the way I would work it is that Humans and Neumans can roll, and the CASTs have the boost-skate. It's gotta be hard to roll when you're big like that. :lol:

RemiusTA
Jul 25, 2011, 09:47 AM
I honestly didn't have Hucasts in mind when i wrote that. Good point : 3

Enforcer MKV
Jul 25, 2011, 09:52 AM
Well, it's understandable, considering we haven't seen anything of them in-game. That's something I hope they show off, honestly, I think they said somewhere in the link that they'd be talking about races and classes, so I hope that means they unveil all the choices, and shows them off a little bit. That'd make my day. Oh - and how the different genders look. That'd be good, too. :D

RemiusTA
Jul 25, 2011, 10:09 AM
I don't think there ever was any link to PSU. Game is based on Earth sometime in the future, all robots are mindless and controlled by one guy and no photon weapons.

I cant tell if he's joking or not, but the first weapon shown is a Photon Weapon, there is no way that this planet is earth (seeing as there is ANOTHER ginormous planet in the clear horizon), and the robots in PSO were not mindless (kireeklol) so i dont think any of it applies.


This can simply be a time either much before or after PSO's time. The only reason i say "before" pso's time is because they are not using Photon bullets. But that really doesn't mean too much -- real bullets are very, very, very powerful.

Lyric
Jul 25, 2011, 11:43 AM
What's laughable is that you dare think you know more about the games than I do.

If you were a good FO in PSU, good for you, so were Ryna, Scythe and Dana and several others with whom I played, but the vast majority of PSU forces sucked, which was not the case in PSO.

A good example of this is that in PSO, when you as a hunter or ranger died, the force apologised and did all they could to ensure you did not lose another scape doll (not for what a scape doll was worth, obviously).

In PSU, when you died when a force could have saved you, they'd say they were too lazy to change weapons to cast Resta and it was for what scape dolls were. Ergo using the system as an excuse for their being an awful player (usually coupled with a very bad mentality).

Hardly. I'm sure the majority of people here have encountered good and bad on both games. I've come across a roughly even number of 'Bad Forces' in both.

RemiusTA
Jul 25, 2011, 12:02 PM
What's laughable is that you dare think you know more about the games than I do.

If you were a good FO in PSU, good for you, so were Ryna, Scythe and Dana and several others with whom I played, but the vast majority of PSU forces sucked, which was not the case in PSO.

A good example of this is that in PSO, when you as a hunter or ranger died, the force apologised and did all they could to ensure you did not lose another scape doll (not for what a scape doll was worth, obviously).

In PSU, when you died when a force could have saved you, they'd say they were too lazy to change weapons to cast Resta and it was for what scape dolls were. Ergo using the system as an excuse for their being an awful player (usually coupled with a very bad mentality).

Uh...people who complain about Resta forces baffle me. ESPECIALLY the PSU ones. 20 monomates, 20 dimates, 20 trimates, 10 stars, 10 scapes. You were practically immortal on PSU, and forces were slow as sin and clunky. Aside from a lv 21+ S/D/Z/R, i dont know what on earth other players could be bitching to a force about.

If something in PSU manages to kill you, you probably shouldn't have been all up in its face to begin with. Either that, or you should have watched your step before running into that Grants/barta/foie/dambarta spam.


Support teching was easier in PSO than in PSU because of how bad the PSU technics were. Everything in PSO was faster and had more range. Resta/Shifta/Deband didnt require a pallete change to do -- quick menu made it happen very fast, and there was no redundant amount of buffs to apply. Also, there was more incentive to use your buffs, because you didn't have to stare at a Photon Cube for an hour + 30 minutes straight to get them to a level where they are useful.


There is no reason to use a force as an excuse in PSU, im just not taking that. Forces were bad on PSU because the class was garabge. It's no excuse. There were very, VERY few occasions when forces were useful in a situation on that game.

If i join your party and you start complaining about my resta...well, F**k you. Plain and simple. If you're too damn cheep to afford to waste one of the 70 healing items + 10 extra lives you're allowed to take to battle with you, you dont deserve to break my fun. I'll resta you if i feel like it, and i'll buff you when i get around to it. Although i believe a GOOD force uses all of his or her support abilities to the fullest, in PSU, a group of 4 hunters is just as (if not more) efficient as 3 hunters and a force. Forces just held no kind of weight in that game. God FORBID there are 5 hunters and one force. You'll be lucky to tag everything in the room with your shitty 4/5 target, slow as hell, terrible targeting Ra-technics before they're blown out of range or flat-out killed.


By the time you Shifta/Deband/Retier/Z-whatever your teammates, cast resta once, and cast the 4 debuffs on the enemies, the group has slaughtered the dumb animals already and moved on. Whatever DPS you've helped with is irrelevant.



The ONLY reason I kept playing force in PSU is because 1) it was more fun than majara spam, 2) DEFINITELY more fun than the shitty ranger gameplay (lol 1 button lol 1 animation), and 3) i made shit blow up. When lv 31+ technics were released, and shortly after they applied the visual patch, that probably was the last straw. I quit soon after.

Enforcer MKV
Jul 25, 2011, 12:21 PM
DEFINITELY more fun than the shitty ranger gameplay

Hey, now, I enjoyed dancing around enemies with my Hyper Vipers as a Guntecher, thank you very much. :lol:

Demon-
Jul 25, 2011, 12:22 PM
Expecting someone to play a certain way, that is laughable.

blace
Jul 25, 2011, 01:11 PM
I cant tell if he's joking or not, but the first weapon shown is a Photon Weapon, there is no way that this planet is earth (seeing as there is ANOTHER ginormous planet in the clear horizon), and the robots in PSO were not mindless (kireeklol) so i dont think any of it applies.


This can simply be a time either much before or after PSO's time. The only reason i say "before" pso's time is because they are not using Photon bullets. But that really doesn't mean too much -- real bullets are very, very, very powerful.
Well the game's setting takes place in 2075 or someething. The president of the US at the time, who is clearly not Hilary Clinton, orders an attack on a space colony that has been taken over by Russian terrorists.

In light of this DARPA takes its chance to showcase it's new armor that allows one to have increased reaction. Moving on the terrorist planned on using the colony's space laser (a giant microwave laser) to burn out Russia and the US. Blah blah blah, military was really behind it, blah blah blah, turns out the president was too and you destroy the colony and all is well.

It's a very short game the only redeeming quality was the high speed action.

r00tabaga
Jul 25, 2011, 01:13 PM
Well the game's setting takes place in 2075 or someething. The president of the US at the time, who is clearly not Hilary Clinton, orders an attack on a space colony that has been taken over by Russian terrorists.

In light of this DARPA takes its chance to showcase it's new armor that allows one to have increased reaction. Moving on the terrorist planned on using the colony's space laser (a giant microwave laser) to burn out Russia and the US. Blah blah blah, military was really behind it, blah blah blah, turns out the president was too and you destroy the colony and all is well.

It's a very short game the only redeeming quality was the high speed action.
RotflCopter!!!

Enforcer MKV
Jul 25, 2011, 01:15 PM
Actually, I thought Vanquish was a great game. And they left it on a cliff-hanger. Hope they make a sequal.

.....Wait, this isn't PSO2!

Lunar_Furor
Jul 25, 2011, 02:13 PM
Hopefully it stays pretty close to the feel of PSO, I liked PsP2 and all that but PsP1/2 and PSU just were too different for me some times

BIG OLAF
Jul 25, 2011, 02:24 PM
Hopefully it stays pretty close to the feel of PSO, I liked PsP2 and all that but PsP1/2 and PSU just were too different for me some times

You haven't seen the gameplay video, have you? The "feel" isn't at all like PSO (at least not the combat; the overall setting and atmosphere seems to be PSO-esque, however).

cheapgunner
Jul 25, 2011, 02:53 PM
I'm hoping for a couple more new weapon types to be announced (perhaps twin slicer and whips? :-) )

RemiusTA
Jul 25, 2011, 03:07 PM
FYI my lovable PSOW posters, the game can have jumping, aerial combos and whatever and still "feel" like PSO. You dont need PSO's engine to have gameplay that feels like it's been derived.

Once again, i never understand what people mean when they say "PSOs mechanics are outdated". Sure, people look for different things in videogames today because more things are possible...but that doesn't make PSO a bad game.


The only way to know for sure if this game favors PSO is to play it.

Enforcer MKV
Jul 25, 2011, 03:14 PM
The only way to know for sure if this game favors PSO is to play it.

This, this, a thousand times, this! Thank you!

BIG OLAF
Jul 25, 2011, 03:33 PM
PSO certainly isn't a "bad" game, but it's unfavorable by today's standards. Still fun to pick up and play every now and again (I've been playing PSOBB on a "certain server" almost every day for a week or so now), but I don't really think a new game could work with PSO's old setup.

Zipzo
Jul 25, 2011, 08:16 PM
You haven't seen the gameplay video, have you? The "feel" isn't at all like PSO (at least not the combat; the overall setting and atmosphere seems to be PSO-esque, however).
Different people have different things that make their PSO nostalgia tick, PSO was amazing in the sense that it left us with so many vibrant nostalgic memories.

For some it may be the music, for others it may be the art direction, story, content, environments.

Combat is whatever...I doubt many would honestly prefer PSO's combat to the albeit new and improved form of combat brought about in the newer Phantasy Star games, because the only thing that changed moving in to PSU combat-wise is that it became more responsive and fast paced.

I highly doubt it has anything to do with the combat mechanics.

Darki
Jul 25, 2011, 10:24 PM
Combat in PSO was among the most boring I've ever played. Melee combos were the same 3 hits for the weapon with no variation (I mean that the only difference between combo, strong combo and special combo was the slowness and some SEs). In case of rangers, well, at least they had combos, but it was the same than melee. For forces, I didn't like the little amount of spells, as the spells were the FO's "weapons" and every class had a crapload of weapons.

PSU, in my opinion, improved a bit in case of melee, making combos more dinamic. Problems were the freaking usefulness of melee attacks, overwhelming and displacing many other mechanics, like many technics, and also the fact that everything relied in PAs, making normal attacks useless except for the first one to do an Exact and to replenish some PP. Techs were almost the same, with the improvement of having more variety, but the dissadvantage of tech binding, and that variety being just element swaps. And guns were the same, but without combos.

I wouldn't like to have PSU system back, but by hell I'd prefer it hunderds of times over PSO's. I feel rlieved because it seems it's not one or the other, but some sort of mix, at least in melee, where combos are more dinamic. I hope technics too, and guns, but it seems is not going too bad.