I hope they take some pointers from PSP2:I on forces

[ShinMaruku]

They have never been so fun as in infinity.

[Ark22]

Never played infinity.....But PSO was good in force support =(

[Jinketsu]

I'm a little distracted by that signature... what's this thread about again?

[ShinMaruku]

I'm a little distracted by that signature... what's this thread about again?
Boobies!

They buffed forces considerable in PSP2i with techs properly chaining and just overall force buffs.

[NoiseHERO]

I played the infinity demo...

I hate how they sped up swords attack speed...

(It made sword fun...Not cool ]: )

[ShinMaruku]

Now if they took that and sazonde I can blast monsters with so much plasma they'll never be landin.

[Rizen]

I never went full forced, but I do use techs on my Ranger from time to time when I'm doing infinity missions with my higher level friends (stupid ATA not high enough for constant hits).

I really like how they made the combos for casting. You had to think about your set up carefully to maximize your overall damage and hits when using the finishing tech. I always used Suzonde (I think it was) for getting the combo count up. It helps keep enemies at bay and sometimes keep them grouped up. I usually finished with Nosdiga or Diga depending on the enemy and situation. I read somewhere that most use Damugrants (?) for the constant hits and cast time.

I wonder if they are going to improve on this concept on PSO2. They did say that there was a combo bar for skills right? Or is that for melee only? I would be nice to have different sets of techs to use for combos instead of sticking to just one and/or switching weapons.

[ShinMaruku]

I rocked with nosdiga or radiga/foi as my chain ender. They hit hella hard regardless. I stay full force due to newman female as well as the tech speed booster. it really helped out.

[Angelo]

Sometimes I forget that PSP2 and PSP2i are even part of the PSU series.

They did so much to improve every little thing. I think people who write off the games because PSU left a bad taste in their mouth will find that PSP2i is a finely tuned game worthy of the Phantasy Star moniker.

[RemiusTA]

I hope they take some pointers from PSP2:I on forces

I don't.

Seriously, they were only fun because it was the first time in PSU's life where they didn't completely suck. They should have redone alot of the Force mechanics like they did with Hunter/Ranger, but im guessing they figured it was too much work.

Instead they just made them not pathetically slow and gave the technics the ability to hit multiple targets -- stuff that should have happened years ago in the original PSU.

[Mike]

Instead they just made them not pathetically slow and gave the technics the ability to hit multiple targets -- stuff that should have happened years ago in the original PSU.
So you do want some pointers from Infinity forces.

[ShinMaruku]

Well Sonic Team ,made PSU. So of course it would be shit.
Some of the stuff was really interesting the fast chaining and chain bonus and extra skills.

[Zynetic]

I hope they take some pointers from PSO on forces, but obviously make techniques a viable form of offense that can keep up with other classes.

[RemiusTA]

So you do want some pointers from Infinity forces.

Well...yeah if you put it that way? I just expect them to use some foresight, thats all.

I dont want them to PLAY like PSP2i forces, but it would be completely foolish of them to not use any of the previous forces as references.


Well Sonic Team ,made PSU. So of course it would be shit.

...what are you doing here then?

[ShinMaruku]

See PSP and PSP2i were good again so I am here. There is no indication that is just tje PSU team so I have faith. :)

[Alisha]

i hope they take some pointers from pso with reguard to fomarls everything else i dont care since i dont care for nuke type forces.

gimme my melee cleric!

[RemiusTA]

See PSP and PSP2i were good again so I am here. There is no indication that is just tje PSU team so I have faith. :)

you do realize that PSP is a port of PSU, and that PSP2 was nothing but a mashup of PSU and PSZ's mechanics?

And im pretty positive that many of the people who worked on PSU/PSO are working on PSO2. They were all at once part of Sonic Team, including Sakai.

[Tetsaru]

I haven't played PSP2:I, but in my opinion (and I've said this before), if Forces are to become viable, they need to be able to do things that no other class can do, and not just have a higher level/stat cap.

Some examples of how this could be done:


Hunters, Rangers, and Forces can all use offensive spells to a certain degree, but only Forces can inflict status effects on enemies with these spells.
Only Forces can charge up spells for additional effects.
Forces can hit more targets at once with AoE or penetrating spells than other jobs.
Forces could have their spells work in different ways: Foie could be rapid-fired or shot in multiple directions at once, Barta could cascade up not only slopes, but walls and ceilings, etc.
Forces have access to certain powerful spells (perhaps Megid, Grants, etc.) that Hunters and Rangers cannot use.
Forces consume less TP/PP than other jobs when casting.
Forces have faster casting speeds than other jobs.
Forces can gain access to certain traits through leveling or a skill tree: can't be interrupted or knocked down while casting/charging, more powerful spells in exchange for more TP/PP consumption or nerfed range, etc.
Other jobs have to use certain equipment to gain effects that Forces may otherwise learn naturally through leveling.


Similarly, Hunters and Rangers (or whatever other jobs there might be) could have their own unique properties to help differentiate themselves in combat.

[Pillan]

Of course, when you make Force differentiate more significantly, you also make Newman look less appealing outside of Force. It is quite the tricky balance.

[Kent]

I haven't played PSP2:I, but in my opinion (and I've said this before), if Forces are to become viable, they need to be able to do things that no other class can do, and not just have a higher level/stat cap.

Some examples of how this could be done:


Hunters, Rangers, and Forces can all use offensive spells to a certain degree, but only Forces can inflict status effects on enemies with these spells.
Only Forces can charge up spells for additional effects.
Forces can hit more targets at once with AoE or penetrating spells than other jobs.
Forces could have their spells work in different ways: Foie could be rapid-fired or shot in multiple directions at once, Barta could cascade up not only slopes, but walls and ceilings, etc.
Forces have access to certain powerful spells (perhaps Megid, Grants, etc.) that Hunters and Rangers cannot use.
Forces consume less TP/PP than other jobs when casting.
Forces have faster casting speeds than other jobs.
Forces can gain access to certain traits through leveling or a skill tree: can't be interrupted or knocked down while casting/charging, more powerful spells in exchange for more TP/PP consumption or nerfed range, etc.
Other jobs have to use certain equipment to gain effects that Forces may otherwise learn naturally through leveling.

Similarly, Hunters and Rangers (or whatever other jobs there might be) could have their own unique properties to help differentiate themselves in combat.
I could see the skill trees becoming more of an overall determining factor than merely one's class on a lot of these things - except for baseline capacities for using certain types of equipment and specific types of techniques.

Because we could look at techniques in the same way we do weapons. Hunters and Rangers may be able to use more melee and ranged weapons (respectively), but Forces instead have access to a wider breadth of techniques. This is something we already saw in PSO (as of Episodes I & II), where only Forces could learn Grants, Megid and Reverser, and they could learn much higher-level versions of every technique compared to the other classes.

Those are what I mean by baseline capacities - something that you get just for being a Force, that sets you apart from the other classes.

However, I see a lot of potential for making the various classes play very differently, should they make a well-designed and intelligently-implemented skill tree system for each class. It's quite well-documented how even a small set of passive bonuses to specific things can completely change one's optimum playstyle, and I would expect that these for a Force would primarily involve skills and passives that benefit techniques to some degree.

Naturally, being class skills, they'd be things that Hunters and Rangers would simply not get at all - though I would expect there to be some cross-over in the sense that there would be skills of any sort for any class that are geared toward enabling and augmenting hybrid playstyles.

That said, we could see some interesting things come about. The immediate things that come to mind, other than basic potency bonuses, could be things like a Technique equivalent of the D&D staple of meta-magic: A modifier you can attach to a technique that would make it so that technique has different attributes. For example, you may be able to have your attack techniques have a much higher chance of inflicting their associated status ailments (if applicable), but deal less brunt damage. Or perhaps you can modify a technique to have a wider area-of-effect than normal - these types of things you "bind" to the action palette alongside the technique itself, allowing you to have separate hotkeys, if you so desire, of "Barta with higher freeze chance" and "Barta that affects a wider area as it travels." Again, things that can modify a Force's techniques how they want, that they can only do by virtue of the fact that they're a Force, and specifically only if they decide to invest points in their build around it.

That's something I could potentially see working out, anyway. Maybe not that specific example, but you get the idea.

[r00tabaga]

I think a HUnewm should have more MST than a full blown FOcast.

[ShinMaruku]

Of course, when you make Force differentiate more significantly, you also make Newman look less appealing outside of Force. It is quite the tricky balance.

Well you could also put some thing in the other clsses that all give races a bonus but quite naturally in some classes they will always be less appealing so balance is tricky but human nature is even more so.

[StriderTuna]

Well Forces are a class that newmans particularly shine in compared to others, similar to HUcasts in some games.

[•Col•]

I think a HUnewm should have more MST than a full blown FOcast.

Wat. No.

Forces=Tech users

Forces should never be out-tech'ed by another class. :l

[StriderTuna]

yeah that's just too much, though I figured that Newman would have the best MST out of a class group compared to others.

[RemiusTA]

Wat. No.

Forces=Tech users

Forces should never be out-tech'ed by another class. :l


I actually agree with him. Casts really shouldn't even be able to use Techniques, i wouldn't be surprised if their MST was piss.


Hunewearl could have more MST, but would lack the ability to charge techniques, and probably not be able to use some of the more useful ones like reverser, grants or megid.




Doesn't matter. Focasts are probably going to snatch up the Fomarl role from PSO as the "Weapons over Techniques" forces. They'll probably have to balance melee/ranged force weapons with some attacks.

Kind of like Hunewearl, except with more powerful techniques, and force weapons instead of hunter weapons.


I haven't played PSP2:I, but in my opinion (and I've said this before), if Forces are to become viable, they need to be able to do things that no other class can do, and not just have a higher level/stat cap.


Some examples of how this could be done:


Hunters, Rangers, and Forces can all use offensive spells to a certain degree, but only Forces can inflict status effects on enemies with these spells.

This is assuming Forces would be Status Effect or Special Effect characters. This is usually the role of Rangers, to make up for their lack of damage.



Only Forces can charge up spells for additional effects.

confirmed already




Forces can hit more targets at once with AoE or penetrating spells than other jobs.
Forces could have their spells work in different ways: Foie could be rapid-fired or shot in multiple directions at once, Barta could cascade up not only slopes, but walls and ceilings, etc.
Forces have access to certain powerful spells (perhaps Megid, Grants, etc.) that Hunters and Rangers cannot use.
Forces consume less TP/PP than other jobs when casting.
Forces have faster casting speeds than other jobs.
Forces can gain access to certain traits through leveling or a skill tree: can't be interrupted or knocked down while casting/charging, more powerful spells in exchange for more TP/PP consumption or nerfed range, etc.
Other jobs have to use certain equipment to gain effects that Forces may otherwise learn naturally through leveling.


Similarly, Hunters and Rangers (or whatever other jobs there might be) could have their own unique properties to help differentiate themselves in combat.I guess these would be good if you look at it from PSU's point of view, but honestly most of this stuff was already taken care of in PSO Ep.1&2.

It really all depends on how forces are handled in this game.

In all honesty, i truly, TRULY pray they do away with that whole "multi target" enemy bullshit in PSO2, perhaps aside from very specific enemies like bosses.


A sword should hit an enemy just as many times as a saber, a spear, an axe, or a fireball. The only real distinguisher they need is damage. If anything, add a hidden "weapon type multiplier" to enemies (where weapons like Swords or Axes get added bonus for larger enemies), but even that isn't needed. You should be encouraged to switch to a more suitable weapon type -- that afterall is what made PSO so fun.

[Alisha]

i hope techs are more balanced when compared with psp2/psu. no more of this barta is weaker because it can freeze crap.

[Pillan]

If FOcast TP is below that of HUnewm, then there is no reason to play anything but Cast outside of Force because their ATP and ATA have to be ridiculous to balance that.

And I have to say that multi-hit freeze does seem like it should do less damage than single-target burn between the multiple target and better status effect factors.

[RemiusTA]

In PSO, the drawback to using the freezing ability of Rabarta/Gibarta is that they were close range skills. (Gibarta was actually quite long ranged, it just slow traveling and thus nobody used it)

They dont have to do less damage. It was a stupid idea for Rabarta to take 9 years to cast just because it had a small chance of freezing the enemy. It rendered it completely useless.

[Gleason]

If FOcast TP is below that of HUnewm, then there is no reason to play anything but Cast outside of Force because their ATP and ATA have to be ridiculous to balance that.


Hmm, not necessarily. in the GC version of PSO, HUnewearls actually had better ATA than HUcasts. HUcaseals had better ATA, but worse ATP, than HUmars, though. Of course, I'm only comparing Hunters to Hunters in a game where there WAS no FOcast. I could see a HUnewearl edging out a FOcast slightly in the TP/MST department, though. I wouldn't bet on them beating a FOcaseal, however, and as other people have mentioned, the Force-only techniques and charging is still going to give them the edge.

[•Col•]

Remius, Forces aren't the only ones who can charge spells. You can charge spells with rods/canes and such. Meaning that if there is a Hunter subclass that allows the use of magic weapons, HUnewm/newearl would be out-damaging and out-living FOcasts/caseals in EVERY way.

Unless of course, you're suggesting that FOcasts have higher ATP/DFP/HP than HUnewms... Which is just stupid, because then they might as well just be a Hunter class. :l

[StriderTuna]

I think in such a case, things would be either be more limited or for Forces, improved compared to other classes. In PSZ, hunters couldn't use many Force weapons if at all. I see a difference between a HUnewearl and a Cast Force is spell selection. Forces generally have more access to spells than Hunters or rangers and more levels. So even if a HUnewearl has more MST than a FOcast, her spell variety and level will be inferior.

[Kent]

Remius, Forces aren't the only ones who can charge spells. You can charge spells with rods/canes and such. Meaning that if there is a Hunter subclass that allows the use of magic weapons, HUnewm/newearl would be out-damaging and out-living FOcasts/caseals in EVERY way.

Unless of course, you're suggesting that FOcasts have higher ATP/DFP/HP than HUnewms... Which is just stupid, because then they might as well just be a Hunter class. :l
It's pretty common throughout PSO that non-Force characters can't equip the "force" type weapon - rods, wands and canes. It's entirely possible, considering that there aren't any character classes other than Hunter, Ranger and Force, that only Forces will be able to equip them.

You're also forgetting that techniques in PSO had multiple levels. You'd need a rather substantial amount of bonus MST to out-damage a Force that has techniques ten levels higher than what you're capable of learning. Of course, we all know that MST scaling with techniques was pretty broken in all PSO versions, but it still stands to reason that Forces would simply be able to learn higher level techniques than any other class, giving their casting ability an inherent advantage over someone with equal (or even somewhat higher, depending on the scaling) MST and a lower level technique.

And, of course, there's the whole notion of different techniques getting specific bonuses based on which Force character you're playing, and the whole thing about having specific techniques being only usable by Forces in the first place (like Grants, Megid and Reverser in PSO).

So no, even if HUnewm/newearl had higher MST than FOcast/caseal, they wouldn't necessarily be at a casting advantage over them. At this point, we don't have enough details on the matter and mechanics behind it to really say for sure.

I mean, really, for all we know, Android characters may get massive chest lasers that deal damage heavily based on MST, meaning FOcasts/caseals could use them the best of all. We'll have to wait until there's more information before getting all up in arms about it.

[Pillan]

Hmm, not necessarily. in the GC version of PSO, HUnewearls actually had better ATA than HUcasts. HUcaseals had better ATA, but worse ATP, than HUmars, though. Of course, I'm only comparing Hunters to Hunters in a game where there WAS no FOcast. I could see a HUnewearl edging out a FOcast slightly in the TP/MST department, though. I wouldn't bet on them beating a FOcaseal, however, and as other people have mentioned, the Force-only techniques and charging is still going to give them the edge.

Assuming Casts are not going to have exclusive traps, exclusive immunities, and a 50% increase on special attack accuracy, you can bet that their base stats will shoot way up compared to PSO.

And when you look at the other modern games (PSU, PSP2I, etc.), FOcast always has significantly more TP than HUnewm. Hunter takes a huge penalty in all forms of ranged damage (both tech and gun damage) in exchange for their high HP. I doubt this one will be any different.

[StriderTuna]

Well hunters generally have lower acc and mst than other classes. I remember in PSO, pistols were popular options for Hunters seeking a bit more range to their fights, that and picking off traps.

[•Col•]

It's pretty common throughout PSO that non-Force characters can't equip the "force" type weapon - rods, wands and canes. It's entirely possible, considering that there aren't any character classes other than Hunter, Ranger and Force, that only Forces will be able to equip them.

Subclasses confirmed. I'll bet money on there being a magic-using subclass for Hunters/Rangers.

For everything else said, I ask... Why?

Yeah, Casts have the worst photon sensitivity or w/e they called it, but Newmans have the worst physical abilities of any of the races, and you don't see them completely sucking as Hunters.

And you misunderstand where I'm coming from. If FOcasts had worse magic using stats than HUnewm, then that'd be fine in itself... Because yeah, Forces would most likely get more advantages for techs than Hunters like you said through tech level and weapon restrictions... But then compare the FOcast to the FOmar/FOnewm and they'd be pointless.

There has to be some incentive there, though. Whether it be a chest cannon or some other race ability like you mentioned, or some balancing with the stats.

[StriderTuna]

Subclasses confirmed. I'll bet money on there being a magic-using subclass for Hunters/Rangers.

For everything else said, I ask... Why?

Yeah, Casts have the worst photon sensitivity or w/e they called it, but Newmans have the worst physical abilities of any of the races, and you don't see them completely sucking as Hunters.

And you misunderstand where I'm coming from. If FOcasts had worse magic using stats than HUnewm, then that'd be fine in itself... Because yeah, Forces would most likely get more advantages for techs than Hunters like you said through tech level and weapon restrictions... But then compare the FOcast to the FOmar/FOnewm and they'd be pointless.

There has to be some incentive there, though. Whether it be a chest cannon or some other race ability like you mentioned, or some balancing with the stats.

I wouldn't say that as a FOcast can most likely take a hit better than the other two. (Newman Forces are hilariously squishy)

[RemiusTA]

Remius, Forces aren't the only ones who can charge spells. You can charge spells with rods/canes and such. Meaning that if there is a Hunter subclass that allows the use of magic weapons, HUnewm/newearl would be out-damaging and out-living FOcasts/caseals in EVERY way.

Unless of course, you're suggesting that FOcasts have higher ATP/DFP/HP than HUnewms... Which is just stupid, because then they might as well just be a Hunter class. :l

Well, im guessing that only pure Forces will be able to equip force weapons.

Im not sure how the "subclass" works, but i think the smartest thing a Hunter/Ranger + Force Sub would look like was regular hunter or ranger abilities with the added ability to cast techniques, just like in PSO. Unless Techniques are ALREADY able to be cast by all fleshies from the start, in which case yeah the Force Subclass will probably allow them to equip rods and thus charge techniques.




So no, even if HUnewm/newearl had higher MST than FOcast/caseal, they wouldn't necessarily be at a casting advantage over them. At this point, we don't have enough details on the matter and mechanics behind it to really say for sure.

I mean, really, for all we know, Android characters may get massive chest lasers that deal damage heavily based on MST, meaning FOcasts/caseals could use them the best of all. We'll have to wait until there's more information before getting all up in arms about it.
Lol as stupid as that sounds, i think it would be so entirely epic as a Focast specific ability to Endbeam everyone Ironman style.



Yeah, if they're following the ques left by PSO, then:

1) The Force class itself (meaning all races) will have class-specific abilities (Grants, Megid, Reverser, ect, would love to see what a Charged Grants looks like)

2) Non-Force classes will have a CLASS SPECIFIC limit on technique level. For instance, from PSO-World's database on PSO:

Humar - Tech Limit:15, No Shifta, No Deband,

Hunewearl - Tech Limit:20 (very high), All support techniques, Lv200 MST is 885.

Ramarl - Tech Limit:20 (Highest for any human character), All support techniques. Notice, Ramarl was basically the "human tech class", her lv 200 MST was 732. She's basically the ranger version of Hunewearl except Human.

Ramar - Same as Humar, except No Zalure and No Jellen, and gain shifta/deband.


Also, in PSO, Humans/Newmans had higher ATA than Casts, but Casts had higher ATP. I believe Newman ATA was higher than Human ATA, but it only really mattered for one class (Humar/Hunewearl) because there was no Newman Ranger. Newmans had the added bonus of automatic TP recovery, Casts had the added bonus of automatic HP recovery, Humans...well, they had Humar.



Another fact that people seem to forget, is that Cast characters, in addition to traps as compensation for no Techniques, also gain another bonus:

"On the GC/XBox/BB versions of the game, they receive a 30% bonus to Blizzard/Arrest/Chaos/King series weapons. However, Devil's and Demon's reduce enemy HP by only 25% and 45% respectively, instead of by 50% and 75% respectively (only in Ultimate). "

Which mostly just makes them very good status drivers, especially if they're a ranger. Extra Attack abilities were absolutely awesome to use on Ranger characters due to ATA and the ability to use them with Rifles/handguns/ect. Hopefully a system similar to this returns.



PSO's balancing tactics were so much more sophisticated than PSU's it isn't even funny.

[Pillan]

There is a huge difference between sophistication and diversity. There is also a huge difference between the current, more elitist, online community and the young online community that existed in the days of PSO.

When you really think about it, the difference between HUcast and HUnewearl is exactly the same as the difference between Fortefighter and Wartecher currently, except Wartecher is slightly better off than HUnewearl was because Fortefighter does not have a huge stock of freeze traps, increased special accuracy, immunity to stun and poison, and HP regeneration…

Which brings me to my first major point about the PSO balance – back then people just did not care about stats and gave value to useless versatility. HUnewearl was only worthwhile in a party when you did not have a Force, just like Wartecher is only worthwhile without a Fortetecher or Acrotecher.

Also note that Newmans had the lowest ATA of any race in PSO. The only exception to this rule is HUnewearl’s ATA max cap. Her natural ATA was the lowest of any Hunter, but HUnewearl had ridiculously high stat caps in everything making it virtually impossible to max them all without four Centurion/Abilities.

But, yes, it is true that humans had higher ATA on average, besides the HUcaseal exception. Though those numbers are also a little off because a human Mag probably adds tech while a Cast Mag will always be optimized toward ATA and ATP (we will assume everyone realizes that you should never raise Def on a Mag in PSO). This is more true for RAmarl than RAmar or HUmar, of course.

If you go through the stats with the current generation mindset, you will come to the conclusion that the only worthwhile classes in PSO were HUcast, RAcast, and FOnewm. You can argue that FOmarl is an acceptable replacement for FOnewm, assuming that the FOnewm does not have a full set of element amplifying gear on the private server that literally doubled the power of each one, as tech damage is ridiculously low in that game unless you have level 20+ techs before Ultimate.


Fortunately the game has been dramatically decreasing the deviations within a class to essentially make a race more useful as a specific class. However, I do agree that they could play further on that with the class ability system, allowing the player to grow in a direction more suited toward their own style. I do agree that Hunters should have the option to increase their tech variety, tech cap, and access to Force weapons. The only difference is that I would say that it should be a custom ability option, not a distinct race limit. And in the end you will see something that looks more like PSO, but still give everyone the option to be more creative and ultimately build a larger community because of it.


EDIT:

It seems I was off. All Newmans start with the lowest ATA and have higher ATA caps than their human equivalents. It is not just a HUnewearl things.

[RemiusTA]

Well i was checking the Lv200 ATA stats on the PSO-W class guides. I dont think those were material maximums, though. I may be wrong about accuracy, but i definitely remember Hucast having shit for accuracy, and Ramar/Ramarl definitely having more accuracy than the other rangers. (Ramar's ATA confirmed obviously because it's in the description of the class.) My Hunewearl seemed to hit with her daggers more than my Humar and DEFINITELY my Hucast, and daggers are pretty inaccurate weapon most of the time.

But none of it matters anyway, because there is only a single Newman class in the game that isn't a Force. They really have no need for ATA in the first place seeing as Technics never miss, and if you're having accuracy problems then Hunewearl's high MST and attack tech cap should more than solve your issues. In theory, anyway. Zonde never misses, Lv 20 foie/barta moves just as fast as any bullet, if not much faster.



I dont have a problem with race limits because i really dont think being able to do EVERYTHING with ANYTHING is really that important of a feature, at all. In fact it's quite overrated, and probably more potentially crippling than anything. It's like a videogame that allows you to do absolutely whatever you want. You gain the fun of walking into a city and slaughtering anybody, but who wants to play a game with such a detached storyline?


And the reason i call PSO's balancing more sophisticated is because despite all PSU's shit, there was simply more depth to PSO's battle engine, and thus more to balance off.


And "elitist" online communities are more a result of the way online games are all designed today. Most MMOs are designed today with a serious emphasis on grinding, which puts strict guidelines on people who want to get anywhere with the game. Thus, they distance themselves from newbies if they want to get anywhere.

PSO/PSU has always been a much more community-friendly game because you don't have to try very hard at all to get stronger or find new weapons/content to enjoy, and thus people are more laid-back. Of course this changes a bit as you get into the higher levels where the content is a bit more strung out, but in the end it's still not NEARLY as bad as grind-based MMOs.

PSU had some seriously lame mechanics behind it, but most of the grindy aspects focused on the player themselves, and really didn't affect the team in any way.

[Pillan]

I dont have a problem with race limits because i really dont think being able to do EVERYTHING with ANYTHING is really that important of a feature, at all. In fact it's quite overrated, and probably more potentially crippling than anything. It's like a videogame that allows you to do absolutely whatever you want. You gain the fun of walking into a city and slaughtering anybody, but who wants to play a game with such a detached storyline?

I am sure everyone can agree that a game like PSO2 would not be tailored to a crowd that would appreciate a game where anyone could literally do anything, like Second Life.

However, when you take the time to sample the players on PSP2, how often do you see a Cast Hunter that took the time to increase the speed of his lightning spells? Or even his support spells? Or even any Hunter at all?

The players really are not so unintelligible to go against their own interests. If I do not use guns, I will not waste my points on abilities that amplify gun potential, and so on. However, if I feel my character is strong enough and I think it would be a cool concept to have a Cast that has increased speed and damage with lightning spells, I would much prefer a game like PSP2 where I can opt to do just that.

My general argument will remain that it does not hurt because players can read ability names and descriptions before they invest in them. On the other hand, it helps because players who do not want to be the most optimal form of their race/class combination will also be able to enjoy whatever they want.

And if such a system really did create a problem for those who wanted to be the most optimal, I am certain that I will post optimization strategies on this forum as soon as the JP wiki is updated with a list of class abilities, costs, and how many points one has per level.

But it is the development team's decision in the end. I would just bet that it will look more like GAS or PSP2I than PSO or even PSZ.


And the reason i call PSO's balancing more sophisticated is because despite all PSU's shit, there was simply more depth to PSO's battle engine, and thus more to balance off.

Could you elaborate on the depth, as I don't understand.

[Hrith]

I'd rather have something completely new than 'pointers' from another game.

Forces in PSO (GC and onwards) were better than PSP2i forces, anyway.

[XxGoregrinderxX]

Forces rock in PSP2i.

But i dont think they put Sazonde in PSO2. DD:

[RemiusTA]

I'd rather have something completely new than 'pointers' from another game.

Forces in PSO (GC and onwards) were better than PSP2i forces, anyway.

PSP2i forces, from the outside looking in, are brokesauce.

When the PSP2i demo came out, i transferred my Japanese PSP2 force into the demo and instantly became jesus.

[Hrith]

I know how forces are in PSP2i, heh.

Maybe you've forgotten what a Lv180+ FOnewearl could do in PSO GC :wacko:

[RemiusTA]

Offline mode forces in PSO were godlike, but apparently everyone complains that they were bad during Online mode. Well, in Ultimate Mode anyway.

I've only played them on Pserver PSOBB online, where they're still Jesus, soooo

[Randomness]

Offline mode forces in PSO were godlike, but apparently everyone complains that they were bad during Online mode. Well, in Ultimate Mode anyway.

I've only played them on Pserver PSOBB online, where they're still Jesus, soooo

Private servers can change enemy resists and such.

Ultimate enemies had godly resists, so FOs were reduced to support roles... mostly. Except for some FOmars, I suppose.

On lower difficulties, they could just fry the hell out of rooms. And it was always fun watching them razonde-lock Vol Opt.

[Hrith]

Well, you remember wrong, sir.

Forces, especially FOnewearls, were absolute destruction in PSO GC/BB online.
My Lv180+ FOnewearl killed faster than most hunters and rangers of the same level, in Episode 1, 2 and 4 alike. There were some monsters against which I could not do anything (Dark Bringer, ugh), but most monsters had very exploitable weaknesses for a FOnewearl.

[NoiseHERO]

Look see you guys don't even remember what PSO even had. But you're nitpicking at a game we've seen like 8% of. ]:

'The hell, man!

[Alisha]

i sorta relished that support role as a fomarl combined with ability to do some melee. the whole reason i started a fomarl back on dc pso was because i liked playing hunewearls but force's were few and far between and when you did get one they could not be trusted to keep S/D up. i dont know how fomarls are in PSZ but i fear that in pso2 fomarls will just be weaker offensively(magic) but sturdier with no real ability to melee.

[Pillan]

i sorta relished that support role as a fomarl combined with ability to do some melee. the whole reason i started a fomarl back on dc pso was because i liked playing hunewearls but force's were few and far between and when you did get one they could not be trusted to keep S/D up. i dont know how fomarls are in PSZ but i fear that in pso2 fomarls will just be weaker offensively(magic) but sturdier with no real ability to melee.

Force has pretty consistently had pretty good melee ability throughout the PSU/P2 continuum. The only real exceptions to this rule are Fortetecher and Masterforce. And, of course, Ranger has slightly better than Force. I really would not worry too much about melee damage, but the HP/DFP/EVP reduction might be more painful if tech damage is pushed higher than usual.

[ShinMaruku]

Well, you remember wrong, sir.

Forces, especially FOnewearls, were absolute destruction in PSO GC/BB online.
My Lv180+ FOnewearl killed faster than most hunters and rangers of the same level, in Episode 1, 2 and 4 alike. There were some monsters against which I could not do anything (Dark Bringer, ugh), but most monsters had very exploitable weaknesses for a FOnewearl.
FOnewearls had piercing megid. At a very high level of megid the pierce made them throw DEATH.

[RemiusTA]

I dont think anything in PSU/PSP2 trumps the moment my fucking Barta started shooting ice crystals, or when my Gifoie gained Heat Distortion and spanned entire rooms, or when my Gibarta got that awesome spinning ice effect, or when Zonde became the wrath of odin.


PSO2 technique effects better be fucking amazing, man. PSO did a wonderful job of making forces feel like gods. Not only in effects, but in finesse as well, because lv 26+ techniques were fast as hell. Not to mention my main force was a Fomar, which had super fast animations to begin with.


In PSO, your force was as powerful as your inventory of Di/Trifluids. As long as you could keep up the carnage you were a beast lol.


Private servers can change enemy resists and such.

All they did was give the Rare Force weapons better technique multipliers. Which goes a very, very long way.

[•Col•]

FOnewearls had piercing megid. At a very high level of megid the pierce made them throw DEATH.

Especially in Mines where the monsters had a low resistance to it...

[ShinMaruku]

Especially in Mines where the monsters had a low resistance to it...
After all the hell my force had in there for a few days it was well worth throwing death at them.
Well in PSP2i my tech are the wrath of hell. Sazonde knocking monsters with so much plasma they never were landin.

Yeah from PSU forces kind of went meh, but seeing of other games handle classes like them I think they can really make them work again.

Force User and Elemental Lord in DN sure show how casters can go.

[Alisha]

your an idiot if you use megid in ult mines. just rafoie/gifoie bomb everything in sight.

[StriderTuna]

Forces in PSZ? Well I haven't played one much but due to how Force weapons (Rod, Wand, Slicer) use MST instead of ATP, this allows them to have pretty hard hitting weapon attacks. Though not sure if this means a FOmar/FOmarl will do better with normal weapons or Force weapons.

But I suspect that a PSZ Human Force may be tankier and better able to use normal weapons, but the Force Weapon damage output would be lower due to the lower MST though this would mean that their possible damage output is closer to a HUnewerls perhaps than a Human hunter.

[ShinMaruku]

your an idiot if you use megid in ult mines. just rafoie/gifoie bomb everything in sight.
Gizonde rafoi bomb the place. Pericing megid is for the annoying fuckers who need ti get blown.

[Serephim]

Megid was...well i never found use for it outside of its very, very high levels. Most of the time it was way too impractical for its TP cost.

Only far endgame did megid count because the most use i got out of fonwearl was basic spell damage

[Hrith]

FOnewearls had piercing megid. At a very high level of megid the pierce made them throw DEATH.Mine? I don't remember Megid being useful there. Megid was very useful (read broken) against most enemies in Episode II and several enemies in Episode IV, but generally useless in Episode I.

[rbf2000]

i sorta relished that support role as a fomarl combined with ability to do some melee. the whole reason i started a fomarl back on dc pso was because i liked playing hunewearls but force's were few and far between and when you did get one they could not be trusted to keep S/D up. i dont know how fomarls are in PSZ but i fear that in pso2 fomarls will just be weaker offensively(magic) but sturdier with no real ability to melee.

You must have been playing with some bad FOs. S/D and J/Z were my job back in the day.

[BioWarrior]

Double range on S/D and J/Z on FOmarl was epic <3 guaranteed I got EXP off everything. Since PSO2 is re-using a lot of PSO sound effects so far I hope they re-use some old tech designs.

[Serephim]

agreed.

I pray that Gifoie is once again like PSO's. Room sized fireballs was the greatest :D

I also hope Rafoie doesn't have joke range like on PSU

[ShinMaruku]

After ep2 I never do ep 1 unless on my HUnewearl.

[Hrith]

Double range on S/D and J/Z on FOmarl was epicS/D and R/A, no class had a bonus to J/Z.

[hewitt]

S/D and R/A, no class had a bonus to J/Z.

This, I think I used Glide divine for that

[ShinMaruku]

Well with the skill tree and the gameplay as it seems it could really prove intresting. If they take the mechanics from PSP2:I and keep their damage insane when chained and when elements are used properly it should be pretty awesome.

[BioWarrior]

S/D and R/A, no class had a bonus to J/Z.

Madam's Umbrella and a few other items boost it :p.

[Hrith]

Madam's Umbrella boosted S/D, Madam's Parasol boosted R/A. Only Glide Divine (BB only) boosted J/Z.

[BioWarrior]

I don't remember what R/A is.

[Rika-chan]

I don't remember what R/A is.

Resta/Anti