Force....Casts....

[ChronoTrigga]

DAE think that Force Casts should have their own array of techniques? As opposed to their living counterparts? Think about it. Let's say a human/newman has Foie, Barta, and Zonde. These techniques come from a magical essense from within most likely from being born with a special inner gift. Now Casts....they are created, they aren't birthed from the loins of another Cast. Why not give them something like Flame Throwers, Liquid Nitrogen Throwers, and Tasers. O_O

Kind of serious topic, and kind of not...but mostly serious.

[BioWarrior]

Don't forget Newmans are artificial too :p but I'm curious how they will explain this.

[Randomness]

Don't forget Newmans are artificial too :p but I'm curious how they will explain this.

Difference is newmans can probably procreate.

[Zyrusticae]

Not to mention Newmans are made out of biological tissue, whereas CASTs are mostly synthetic materials.

[Nitro Vordex]

I thought they were considered techniques, not really magic. Besides, it's perfectly logical for a robot to produce a fireball, lightning, or super cold wind.

[Randomness]

I thought they were considered techniques, not really magic. Besides, it's perfectly logical for a robot to produce a fireball, lightning, or super cold wind.

Especially lightning. FOcast bonus: +20% damage with Zonde techs, or something.

[Tetsaru]

DAE think that Force Casts should have their own array of techniques? As opposed to their living counterparts? Think about it. Let's say a human/newman has Foie, Barta, and Zonde. These techniques come from a magical essense from within most likely from being born with a special inner gift. Now Casts....they are created, they aren't birthed from the loins of another Cast. Why not give them something like Flame Throwers, Liquid Nitrogen Throwers, and Tasers. O_O

Kind of serious topic, and kind of not...but mostly serious.

Flamethrowers, liquid nitrogen throwers, tasers... sound more like Ranger stuff to me, lol.

I'm not opposed to the idea, though. I feel like FOcasts would be played more for their uniqueness rather than their statistical prowess with spells, so perhaps their spells could reflect that in some way. Maybe something like Protranser, where they still use traps like the old PSO-style Casts, but use their magic to imbue them with different elemental properties and status effects? Or have floating proximity mines or automated turrets that fire off different spells, like some of the hidden traps in PSO/PSU did... just tossing out ideas here.

[NoiseHERO]

This again?

There can be enchanted rocks that make magic and circuits but not enchanted metal and circuits? TECH aren't magic to begin with, they're some kind of science plot device used to make something SIMILAR to magic. If anything something like flamethrowers and tazers are what we've been doing this whole time.

/end future off-topic rambling

/back on to the original ideas of the topic

Nah, if anything traps should be like that instead of being borderline TECH grenades. OR they're already the same shit. /shrug

[BioWarrior]

Well now that I think about it. Techs, just like photon arts, Use PHOTONS. Even blades and guns consume it so when you think about it if casts can't use techs then they can't use PAs.

[Justyn_Darkcrest]

In a generic sense, Techs are magic, regardless of terminology. The debate of whether machines would/should be able to use something that is typically only usable by living beings can be explained pretty simply, technology. From a story standpoint they could simply say that CASTs tech power comes from a program or inner network designed to create the techs themselves.

[Sord]

Well now that I think about it. Techs, just like photon arts, Use PHOTONS. Even blades and guns consume it so when you think about it if casts can't use techs then they can't use PAs.

This.


I think that Dr. Montague had Eleanor "stationed" on Pioneer 2 for a reason, I don't know. But most of the time where there is a governement investigation, Dr. Montague/Eleanor were there, becasue the government needed their help for the analysis and stuff.

He was upgrading her emotions though, and in "Doc's Secret Plan" or "Soul Of Steel", you find out Eleanor's problem, of her missing sisiter, Ult.

She seems shy, and gives out information about Dr. Montague's experiments, and has a potiential about Mags.

More specifically, they talk about the fact that mags are actually bio/mechanical organisms, capable of growing and the like. A mag cell is revealed to actually be a baby mag in that quest. They (mags) are also totally capable of wielding photons to do TECH type things (reversers, buffs, PA blasts, etc.) There's really no reason why casts couldn't be easily explained as wielding techs, because it really does all boil down to photons. Cast mags might have to have some sort of bioaugmentation, but really they needn't even go that far. Especially since it's shifted to tying techs to weapons as opposed to the person itself.

[Selphea]

Cast FOs cast techs using the Tandem Engine, which allows them to replicate a fighter's moves. FOcasts are actually advanced versions of Seth. Their engines are hidden under their hood to avoid a lawsuit by Capcom.

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NAO :O

[lostinseganet]

Summon monsters!....digital champions♫

[Nitro Vordex]

...Except the idea of FOcast came WELL before Seth did. Capcom is actually ripping off Sega. :wacko:

[StriderTuna]

Well I heard Techs are based off of photon manipulation to do that. Casts' lost MST and such is a sign of their being out of tune with them compared to the other races, especially Newmans.

[Fayorei]

Cast FOs cast techs using the Tandem Engine, which allows them to replicate a fighter's moves. FOcasts are actually advanced versions of Seth. Their engines are hidden under their hood to avoid a lawsuit by Capcom.

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NAO :O

CONSPIRACY!!! :D

But on topic, I agree that it makes sense that a Cast could replicate the magic spells just as well.

[chibiLegolas]

I just want to know what roles Sega has for FOcasts and FOcaseals.
They've already taken the time to make unique designs for them. Which already implies that both are viable, playable classes, unlike PSU (which weren't taken seriously).

Support tech class who can stay close to hunters? (I'm hoping).
Some kind of trap benefit would be great as well.

[Sord]

Someone else in another thread I think threw out the thought that they could replace the FOmar as the caster that can use melee weapons somewhat effectively as well. That does seem like a rather likely prospect.

[RenzokukenZ]

The FOs in PSO were labeled as such:

FOnewearl was the glass cannon.

FOnewm was the AoE specialist.

FOmarl was the healbot.

and FOmar was the melee-caster.

I could easily see FOcasts being the new FOmar, but then Sega would have to give FOmar a new specialty.

Or the FOs will be clean slates and what they are will be determined by skill trees. Seems more likely.

[condiments]

The FOs in PSO were labeled as such:

FOnewearl was the glass cannon.

FOnewm was the AoE specialist.

FOmarl was the healbot.

and FOmar was the melee-caster.

I could easily see FOcasts being the new FOmar, but then Sega would have to give FOmar a new specialty.

Or the FOs will be clean slates and what they are will be determined by skill trees. Seems more likely.

I think each will still have inherent traits, but the majority of class customization will probably come from the skill tree. I like it that way.:D

[Sord]

The FOs in PSO were labeled as such:

FOnewearl was the glass cannon.

FOnewm was the AoE specialist.

FOmarl was the healbot.

and FOmar was the melee-caster.

I could easily see FOcasts being the new FOmar, but then Sega would have to give FOmar a new specialty.

Or the FOs will be clean slates and what they are will be determined by skill trees. Seems more likely.

I don't see a buff specialist in there. Granted, PSO/U never had the greatest buffs in the world to begin with. Save stacking all dem points on Milla and Youlla.

[chibiLegolas]

I don't see a buff specialist in there. Granted, PSO/U never had the greatest buffs in the world to begin with. Save stacking all dem points on Milla and Youlla.

Most players took any FOs as buffer/debuffers in general.
But didn't FOmar had an extended buff range than the other FO's?
I remember the added buff/debuff range being usefull since my teammates like to be all over the place.

I assume with the inherit low MST stat for casts, FOcasts would be more ideal for defensive techs.

FOcasts = def tech + melee
FOmar = offensive tech + melee

But yea, I assume the skill tree would help you gear yourself to anything you'd like in the end.

[RemiusTA]

This again?

There can be enchanted rocks that make magic and circuits but not enchanted metal and circuits? TECH aren't magic to begin with, they're some kind of science plot device used to make something SIMILAR to magic. If anything something like flamethrowers and tazers are what we've been doing this whole time.

/end future off-topic rambling

/back on to the original ideas of the topic

Nah, if anything traps should be like that instead of being borderline TECH grenades. OR they're already the same shit. /shrug

The usual idea behind this is that Humans/Newmans, being biological creatures, have "souls". It's probably the "soul" that allows them to interact with photons or whatever.

Under this logic, it makes sense that casts either 1) wouldn't be able to use them or 2) would be terrible at doing it. However they decide to explain it, it really isn't that hard to understand.

I dont think Photon is an 100% magic related substance, seeing as there are weapons that utilize it, and casts are more than capable of using it too.


Regardless of how it's justified, it doesn't really matter because it's better as a gameplay limitation anyway. I dont really approve much of Focasts because i dont feel like there is even a place for them in terms of balancing.

If they keep fucking around, they'll end up with PSU's class system, where every class is just a stat alteration. Unless they're giving each class specific perks with limitations and animations (like on PSO), then we'll end up with the original 4 Force classes suffering as their would-be unique traits have to be stretched out in order to cater to the addition of Focast and Focaseal.


Hope they do something good with it.


Newman forces should be the best damagers.

Human forces should be the best support / well rounded.

Cast forces should be the most durable.


I think thats where they should focus it. Stats shouldn't be the sole determination of useability. That's what i think separated PSO from PSU the most. The problem is the other classes. Now that Casts are able to use Techniques, i ASSUME they'll be able to use it as a subclass and utilize them while using hunter/ranger like in PSO. Casts should obtain no specific techniques, but they should definitely be given more limits than the other ones off principal. Techniques were always a perk to being a fleshy, since Androids always had higher defensive and damage potentials. Also, in PSU, Casts had the highest ATA, while in PSO it was Humans who were the most accurate. Hopefully humans stay the most accurate again.



I see more issues with Casts using Techniques than good, really. Now that they can use Resta, are they still going to auto-regenerate? Will Resta even affect them in this game?

[Akaimizu]

Originally, it wasn't really the weapons that utilized the Techniques, but more or less they amplified the user's own pool of bioloical mental energy in order to make it stronger.

PSU seemed to reverse that idea. In there, it is the weapons, in which the user's mental energy added something to it.

Something that could be attributed to the idea why PSO required no weapons to fire off techs while PSU was all about the weapons.

I also am looking at PSO2 in the hopes they don't mess up the support balance and/or usability.

[StriderTuna]

Well in PSZ, the human forces were more/balanced and could use 20 more materials while the newmen had higher magical power/evade. What was universal was that females had a boosted healing/support ability (and maybe Grantz) and males got boosted attack magic and a healing penalty.

Also all the forces took less tech damage in general and was similar to PSO where you didn't need certain weapons to use/charge techs, though Force weapons certainly helped with adding MST and possibly a bonus to a element.

I remember in PSO how the RAcaseal had the highest acc unless she got debuffed in later revisions (She also had the lowest ATP of the 3 ranger classes) I remember HUcasts being accurate enough to use a handgun decently. Then again PSO had HUnewearls with their bulletproof haltertops.

I figure a Force Cast would be a battle mage, being able to melee the best while applying better support than a non-force class. I'd imagine their EVA would be very terrible as it's a typical cast(M) weakness.

as I see it the typical points of the 3 main races in general (specifics differing between games)

Humans
Strengths: Higher material limit, balanced
Weakness: No specialties or natural regen

Casts
Strengths: Generally superior Hp,Strength, Defense, Accuracy while caseals are known for their accuracy and evasion. Hp regen too. Trap use and Hunter-type armor is available to Cast Rangers.
Weakness: No/low PP, low MST, Casts (male) have terrible eva while some caseals have low ATP. No techs for the most part.

Newmen
Strengths: PP regen, high MST and evade
Weakness: low Hp/ATP/DEF compared to other races.

[RemiusTA]

Both humans and Newmans had higher ATA than any of the casts.

In fact, i think the only cast class in the game that had higher ATA than any of the fleshies of the same class was Hucaseal. But both Ramar and Ramarl had much better ATA than Racast or Racaseal, and those were the Ranger classes.

Casts were just ATP and DEF tanks. Once again i think the exception being Hucaseal, which a focus on ATA and EVP. But i never used her anyway.

[Pillan]

I would assume that the stats in PSO2 look more like PSZ or PSP2/I than PSO's.

It is also interesting to note that there is a separate gun damage stat in this game, rather than it being based off ATP or ATA. In consistency with PSO's old terminology, I will just call it Ranged Power or RAP.

[Hrith]

RAP. :disapprove:

[Omega-z]

I like the Idea of defensive techs for Focast like better shields or self boosting spells and even could add in an advanced form of the teleport spell that make them use there melee or tech base weapon while warping around the place like Nightcrawler in X-men with a time limit. they could add in a Barrier spell against 1 hit K.o attacks that could protect yourself so that you could bring everyone else back when they got knocked out like WERN did in the Original series. :):rappy:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrVdCkKxty4

[chibiLegolas]

Newman forces should be the best damagers.

Human forces should be the best support / well rounded.

Cast forces should be the most durable.


Oh, that sounds good too.

Or this variation:
Newman FO = best tech damage
Human FO = Force weapon melee/support tech/tech damage
Cast FO = simple weapon melee(saber or pistol for ex.)/support tech

[Hrith]

This makes cast forces quite useless =/
What's the point of a durable force?

I think casts should be the best buffers -- but not healers, since that's technically damage, so the newmans would be best in that area -- and humans would be good, but not best, at both. If techs are well-balanced (i.e. not like PSU), this would work out well, being good at both would not make the humans worse than the other two races.

[Calsetes]

I just think it'd be cool to have a variation for some of the spells and such. Anyone else remember... what was it, Demi's healing skill in PS4? I think her chest opened up for a healing ray or something.

I think it'd be cool if the names were altered and they had a unique animation to them, but essentially did the same exact thing.

[chibiLegolas]

This makes cast forces quite useless =/
What's the point of a durable force?

I think casts should be the best buffers --.

Just thinking what'll make FOcasts different than the rest. Best buffers seems the most obvious to me (and I like it!). Most durable comes into play with best HP & DEF out of the forces. Which gives them the option to use some type of simple weapon to be offensive with (rather than tech damage). I'm hoping for the gun blade variety.
They announced they're bringing back the gun blade from PSZ, if I remember correctly.

Gun blade + buff/debuffs sounds fun to me. And I'm hoping I can do so on my future FOcaseal.

[Pillan]

I believe they already confirmed that Gunslash are usable by all classes, so it sounds like you will have little to worry about that.

[RemiusTA]

Yeah, i think gunslash = Handgun.

Which i dont really like...but whatever.

[Pillan]

Ah, I found the confirmation here (http://bumped.org/psublog/phantasy-star-online-2-races-and-classes/)

[•Col•]

Yeah, i think gunslash = Handgun.

Which i dont really like...but whatever.

I think it's worse than that....

I think it's supposed to be Gunslash = Saber + Handgun

:(

The generic weapon usable by everyone and anyone. But now I wonder, if it really is meant to replace Sabers/Handgun, can we dual-weild them? XD That'd look pretty stupid....

[NoiseHERO]

Yes instead of dual wielding they shall merge all weapons together...


Actually single dagger and a mechgun put together would be boss...

[Koric]

Ah, I found the confirmation here (http://bumped.org/psublog/phantasy-star-online-2-races-and-classes/)

Off-topic but... I enjoy that read. Even though I saw all the videos already. xD

Hope they show ALOT more stuff at Tokyo Conference. Doubt they'll have a release date for NA.... maybe a Global release date though. :D ...I can be hopeful...

[StriderTuna]

I think it's worse than that....

I think it's supposed to be Gunslash = Saber + Handgun

:(

The generic weapon usable by everyone and anyone. But now I wonder, if it really is meant to replace Sabers/Handgun, can we dual-weild them? XD That'd look pretty stupid....

Well if they are to replace Sabers and Handguns with Gunslashes, they had better improve the gun function to a real gun's level as in PSZ, you couldn't really get a 'lock' on distant objects using the Gun mode, making it rather useless as a serious ranged weapon.

[Elijah Fox]

Gunblade? Heard of em, but ive never seen one. Sounds cool though. But I hope it doesnt replace Sabers and\or Daggers.

[AfroGuy!]

i think the wired lance replaces daggers... but i hope not

[•Col•]

Well if they are to replace Sabers and Handguns with Gunslashes, they had better improve the gun function to a real gun's level as in PSZ, you couldn't really get a 'lock' on distant objects using the Gun mode, making it rather useless as a serious ranged weapon.

You can aim it in TPS mode, just like the other ranged Gun weapons.

[Enforcer MKV]

Yes instead of dual wielding they shall merge all weapons together...


Actually single dagger and a mechgun put together would be boss...

......Ok, so I agree.

[RemiusTA]

gehh...i dont really care for it. I'd rather some cool dagger stuff. I dont want all my weapons to feel like some kind of cheep last-minute idea...

[NoiseHERO]

But mechgun daggers are so coooooool

http://psp2.psupedia.info/Edge_Quolia

[Tetsaru]

Personally, I think it'd be cool to mix and match single-handed weapons. Something like handgun + dagger especially (reminds me of stuff like Metal Gear Solid or Resident Evil), but imagine having two different weapons of the same type, like a Delsaber's Buster and a DB's Saber, or a Varista and a Ruby Bullet. You could have one strong weapon and one accurate weapon, one weapon that inflicts poison and another that freezes, a ranged weapon and a melee weapon, two weapons that can combo PA's together easily - all sorts of things. Hell, they could still do weapons like Sange & Yasha and Guld & Milla, but then you wouldn't necessarily have to fuse them together - you could just equip both of them simultaneously and get some sort of special equipment combo bonuses or perks from it.

But yeah... we're getting off-topic lol.

[Pillan]

From the screen shot showing the weapon pallet, it doesn't even look like you can equip different weapons in each hand as in PSU.

[Rika-chan]

From the screen shot showing the weapon pallet, it doesn't even look like you can equip different weapons in each hand as in PSU.

I like it that way better. I never used a handgun with a saber because it was ugly and I never used it anyway... Same with mags.

[Enforcer MKV]

But mechgun daggers are so coooooool

http://psp2.psupedia.info/Edge_Quolia

WHINE AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDED ON IT!

Also: AGREE!

[chibiLegolas]

I think it's worse than that....

I think it's supposed to be Gunslash = Saber + Handgun

:(

The generic weapon usable by everyone and anyone. But now I wonder, if it really is meant to replace Sabers/Handgun, can we dual-weild them? XD That'd look pretty stupid....

Damn! I misinterpreted into PSZ's gunblade? Damn! I actually liked gunblades in PSZ. Part saber, part mini crossbow. It's just weak compared to other weapons. But damn fun to use! And I thought it woud fit perfectly for FOcast/FOcaseals.
O-well....

[Enforcer MKV]

I'd be funny if there was a joke animation where you go to hold the blade like a stock, and then yelp because you cut yourself. XD

[tmhlt068]

so.... how did this go from being about the force cast to weapons?

[NoiseHERO]

I like it that way better. I never used a handgun with a saber because it was ugly and I never used it anyway... Same with mags.

This, except I was fine with mags in the other slot. It made a lot more sense than...

A handgun in one hand... and a bigass saber in the other-what?

But yeah a shield or something floating over your shoulder made plenty of sense.


Also @ tmhlt068jibberishmadename it's not a good idea to spend your first post being a smartass, you're already in a sea of trolls. Actually that sounds lame to say, maybe more... you're already in a sea of whiny man children.

[tmhlt068]

so, to put this subject back on track... Forces and Casts.... they could change the mythology totally around, since this is a part 2, it could be a reset of sorts.

So, these 'spells' arn't really spells, they are technology, as per the explanation in Phantasy Star 2 I think it was. therefore, since casts are pretty good at handling technology, they should be able to easily manipulate it. Unfortunately that's just hypothetical BS, and I could be completely off the mark.

[yoshiblue]

They done it once they will do it again. Just like how America's sonic already had many many voice actors

[kyuuketsuki]

Also @ tmhlt068jibberishmadename it's not a good idea to spend your first post being a smartass, you're already in a sea of trolls. Actually that sounds lame to say, maybe more... you're already in a sea of whiny man children.So will it be okay when he gets 1572 posts like you?

Anyway, I'm personally thinking that Casts won't be able to use techs as Rangers or Hunters, but only as Forces (unless I missed a bit of info that says otherwise). They can make up any lore reason they want for it, really, since it's "magic."

[•Col•]

So will it be okay when he gets 1572 posts like you?

Anyway, I'm personally thinking that Casts won't be able to use techs as Rangers or Hunters, but only as Forces (unless I missed a bit of info that says otherwise). They can make up any lore reason they want for it, really, since it's "magic."

If Humans/Newmans can use techs as Hunters/Rangers, then I bet Casts will be able to as well.

[chibipocky15]

I love how everyone one made fun of me for saying force cast would be a cool thing to have XD and now everyones getting worked up about it >w<