xbox players will not like this [Archive]

goldbrease

Aug 18, 2011, 05:47 AM

Still doubtful that Microsoft will give up though.

Just like that article said, as long as Sony and Nintendo are still around, they will keep trying.

This gen was disappointing overall anyways :/

i do agree, to many games are focusing on nothing but graphics. games are meant to be fun.
that and it seems like 70% of this gen's games are fps, and while i do like fps, having so many makes things boring.

and i like you said i don't think the retail industry in japan kicking ms in the nuts is going to make them quit the gaming industry. hopefully it makes them think about the cultural markets more.

Yeah, Wii was blah in every direction save first party titles, PS3 started expensive as hell and had game library problems for the longest time. Finally started gaining ground way late in the game, then they get slammed with PSN hacks. DS full of shitty shovelware trying to sell on stylus (though there were some good games,) PSP hardly making any ripples in the US, lot of good games don't get ported to US on it. Xbox had red rings forever and a day, has shitty requirements for devs regarding DLC, from the programming end to trying to force devs to charge even when they don't want to.

most of this gaming gen's problems in a nut shell ehh?

Enforcer MKV

Aug 18, 2011, 07:23 AM

Man, as long as Namco Bandai doesn't abandon Xbox, I will be happy......

BTW, Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3 is really fun. A bit repetitive, but fun. :P

DirksOak

Aug 18, 2011, 10:40 AM

Does this mean no more BlazBlue ;__;

goldbrease

Aug 18, 2011, 03:54 PM

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/18/microsoft-responds-to-claims-of-japanese-retailers-phasing-out-3/

..... you know, not giving up on the jp market is one thing but i don't think they are going to get their shelf space back with the kinect.

bloodflowers

Aug 18, 2011, 03:58 PM

condiments

Aug 18, 2011, 03:59 PM

Yeah, Wii was blah in every direction save first party titles, PS3 started expensive as hell and had game library problems for the longest time. Finally started gaining ground way late in the game, then they get slammed with PSN hacks. DS full of shitty shovelware trying to sell on stylus (though there were some good games,) PSP hardly making any ripples in the US, lot of good games don't get ported to US on it. Xbox had red rings forever and a day, has shitty requirements for devs regarding DLC, from the programming end to trying to force devs to charge even when they don't want to.

Yeah my Xbox 360 broke 4 times, and my PS3 died shortly after warranty. I think I'll be PC gaming for some years to come from now on, unless I can get my hands on a cheap PS3.

goldbrease

Aug 18, 2011, 04:09 PM

Yeah my Xbox 360 broke 4 times, and my PS3 died shortly after warranty. I think I'll be PC gaming for some years to come from now on, unless I can get my hands on a cheap PS3.

ps3 just had a $50 price cut.

Kent

Aug 18, 2011, 04:14 PM

Considering Microsoft's overall top spot in the current console business, it's unlikely that they'd give up in Japan, especially so easily - they were still much worse off with the original Xbox in Japan than they are currently with the Xbox 360, and quite a few niche "hardcore" developers in Japan (such as Cave and Treasure) are still heavily-backing the system. Some major publishers, such as Capcom, Konami and (to an extent) Square Enix are actually realizing that there's more to the world than just what Japan wants, and therefore have decided to embrace multiplatform development instead of platform-exclusivity.

Serephim

Aug 18, 2011, 04:23 PM

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/17/report-japanese-retailers-backing-away-from-xbox-360/

with no word on a console release at all this may have just killed any potential xbox release.

The console version of PSU would have killed the chances of it ending up on 360 anyway. If it was ever going to be on a console, PS3 is the obvious choice, as it's both stronger and better revered in japan.

But it does not matter anyway because Sakai has constantly stated, over and over, that this game is PC only. I dont think he can be anymore direct than that.

Vashyron

Aug 18, 2011, 04:34 PM

But it does not matter anyway because Sakai has constantly stated, over and over, that this game is PC only. I dont think he can be anymore direct than that.

"lol butt u dun wrk 4 sega thy cud b planin it."

Heard this so often now.

StriderTuna

Aug 18, 2011, 04:40 PM

As a European gamer who likes arcade shooters, this is actually a good thing. The vast majority of them have been going to the 360, which is odd for such a niche genre, but many have been region locked.

If the 360 dies in Japan, it will force cave/etc to release on the PS3 instead, which has no region protection.

That's assuming they do any PS3 ports at all as Sony's infamous difficult about somethings. (Why else could they find a better foothold on the 360 than the PS3?)

The real shame is that most of the made for 360 jRPGs won't get PS3 ports at all.

Anime_Angel

Aug 18, 2011, 07:06 PM

Serephim

Aug 18, 2011, 07:18 PM

That's assuming they do any PS3 ports at all as Sony's infamous difficult about somethings. (Why else could they find a better foothold on the 360 than the PS3?)

The real shame is that most of the made for 360 jRPGs won't get PS3 ports at all.

Sony isn't nearly as difficult as microsoft at things like this. And the PS3 has always been known as somewhat complicated to take full advantage of. (which is why in the past, the PS3 port would usually perform worse than the 360 port, regardless of the fact the PS3 is more powerful.) If this game was to get ported to anything it would be PS3.

But it's not getting ported. And if it is, it wont be here for the next few years. But for all we know, it isnt. At all. 360 users can be mad all they want, but it's pointless anyway. Even if it DID have a chance of being ported...the chance of them sticking another JpMMO on the Xbox? Haha, that's not happening.

And the only reason PSU was on 360 is because i dont think the PS3 was even out yet...

NoiseHERO

Aug 18, 2011, 07:24 PM

Hah, everyone in the world hates each other!

Vashyron

Aug 18, 2011, 07:26 PM

And the only reason PSU was on 360 is because i dont think the PS3 was even out yet...

Yep. PS3 wasn't out by then, PSU was made for PS2, but then had a last minute port to 360.

Powder Keg

Aug 18, 2011, 07:40 PM

Having the opposite effect in JP and US with the 360 and PS3 really hurt sales when it comes to translations and sales overseas.

I by no means want one system monopolizing everything, but the next gen. system (I don't care who it is, they just need to:
- not be smug like Sony
- not break and have so many restrictions pushing away developers like Microsoft
and
- not go overboard on crap I don't care about like Nintendo)

But my point is the next gen system needs to...not exactly dominate, but be the top dog in all regions like the PS2 was, and we'll see plenty of games get translated over here again. Namco went insane from the whole ordeal not being able to choose a console, and Konami has taken a backseat and has played it safe with titles like Suikoden (which we need a new one of badly)

Maybe the PS3 price drop will boost sales here and give companies a little more confidence.

cheapgunner

Aug 18, 2011, 07:46 PM

Seeing that this game will most likely be pc only, I'll be going solo since my friends aren't pc gamers themselves.

*crosses finger for a ps3 release possibly* >.<

Enforcer MKV

Aug 18, 2011, 07:53 PM

Hah, everyone in the world hates each other!

That's not true.....*puppy dog eyes*

....I love everyone.....

Shinji Kazuya

Aug 18, 2011, 08:01 PM

Hah, everyone in the world hates each other!

You mean everyone in PSOWorld, not in the world.

I love you too Enforcer! ❤

Enforcer MKV

Aug 18, 2011, 08:06 PM

You mean everyone in PSOWorld, not in the world.

I love you too Enforcer! ❤

HOLD ME!

Here, have a cookie! :heartcookie:

goldbrease

Aug 19, 2011, 01:19 AM

well there have been games in the past that they claimed would only be made for one console or only for pc and it ended up going onto other platforms. only one off the top of my head that i think this happened to was star ocean.

Serephim

Aug 19, 2011, 01:36 AM

Resident Evil 4 too. Boy i was so happy i already had a PS2 by then. I was a hardcore GCN fanboy, but it was such a bad system i just had to get PS2 and promise i'd never get nintendo again

Resident Evil 4 also had "Only For Gamecube" on the case...and then PS2 gets RE4 with a whole new storymode and new content....

But that was because they develop the game for GCN because it was stronger than PS2. But the GCN got no sales, so they had to add to PS2....

This is completely different. Its on PC because PC will always be stronger than consoles

kyuuketsuki

Aug 19, 2011, 02:06 AM

Resident Evil 4 too. Boy i was so happy i already had a PS2 by then. I was a hardcore GCN fanboy, but it was such a bad system i just had to get PS2 and promise i'd never get nintendo again

Resident Evil 4 also had "Only For Gamecube" on the case...and then PS2 gets RE4 with a whole new storymode and new content....But then they made RE4 for Wii, and that was the ultimate edition of that game hands down.

Serephim

Aug 19, 2011, 02:14 AM

It was just the PS2 version with Wiimote controls. I dont even think they added anything new....Same as Twilight Princess (which i played on GCN and have no desire to play on wii)

I actually hated that super big ugly reticule they stuck on the screen in the Wii version. I thought the laser pointer in the GCN/PS2 versions was much more subtle and attractive.

It wasn't an "ultimate edition" so much as it was something fun to do on the Wii.

kyuuketsuki

Aug 19, 2011, 02:58 AM

It wasn't an "ultimate edition" so much as it was something fun to do on the Wii.
I personally found using the Wii controller with RE4 to be quite fun, which is the only reason I called it the "ultimate edition". :p

Serephim

Aug 19, 2011, 05:19 AM

Oh lol

well i had already finished it on GCN and then again on PS2, i wasnt gonna get it again lol

It was an amazing game though. I can't decide if it was better than RE5 or not. RE5's last chapter was just too good.

Fayorei

Aug 19, 2011, 12:12 PM

I think what a lot of people fail to grasp is that the situation is reversed in each country. Many Xbox 360 titles probably aren't localized into Japanese, and then there's the fact that we don't get a lot of PS3 JP titles, (or PSP titles for that matter, looking at you PSP2i), and a lack of games being localized is blamed on sales. However, it is a quite redundant chicken and the egg argument since games and consoles are directly connected.

Akaimizu

Aug 19, 2011, 12:14 PM

Totally agreed.

kyuuketsuki

Aug 19, 2011, 02:59 PM

It was an amazing game though. I can't decide if it was better than RE5 or not. RE5's last chapter was just too good.
I could never get past RE5's first couple chapters, so I'm definitely on RE4's team there. RE4 was already pushing the franchise into more action-y territory, and RE5 just went too far, IMO. The survival-horror was pretty much gone, and it was just pure action.

Orochinagi

Aug 20, 2011, 04:18 AM

I never saw xbox as a japanese based console which is why I prefer the PS3 over the xbox due to it's online capabilities.

but since the game is confirmed to be PC only, I shall get my uncle to make me a gaming PC.

To the ppl that make/made statements similar to this, placing the PS3 on a "kings chair", did you guys completely forget the multi-month hiatus that the PSN Network had recently??? If PSO2 were out on this poor firmware and prehistoric ass security ridden system I'd be SEVERELY pissed, not being able to play for months on end, probably still having to pay because Sega won't want to lose on this incident. I'm not gonna get deep into the semantics, tech, and XB vs PS bullcrap right now. But the key element that ppl seem to be forgetting is S-E-C-U-R-I-T-Y. PS3 is a public playground, 360 is the rich country club when it comes to this and that is the reason why. Just leave it on PC or let Sega run their own servers on 360 this time ala FF11, opposed to running it on their servers.

Sinue_v2

Aug 20, 2011, 07:09 AM

Honestly, I can't see Sega making a serious dent in the PC market given how over-saturated it is already with P2P and F2P titles. Not to mention that PS PC titles have a rather sorted history with PSO v.2 PC release bombing and PSOBB's meager showing, not to mention the sales differential between PS2 and PC with PSU.

Not to say that it couldn't be done, but I have zero faith in Sega to either push or support the game as necessary in order to survive in such a market. If Sega wants PSO to be a success in the long-term, they're going to have to look into console support wherein lies the majority of their established fanbase and an anemic market which is primed for a major online RPG success if the right innovators with the right game comes in and breaks down or circumvents those barriers. It's not like it hasn't happened in past. See: FPS's & Halo, RPGs & FFVII, Adventures & Resident Evil. While these genres had presence prior to their breakout successes, none of them could sell a platform like they do now. Even RTS games enjoyed a healthy glut early in the generation. But the key to each games success is that broke down previous barriers that kept other developers away, or created a lack of confidence in their chances at retail.

I also have little faith in Sega's ability to be that trailblazer, but they've got the best shot at it thus far with arguably the best track record. And I think that if they have any hopes of making PSO2 a notable success that carries the brand through to another sequel, they're going to have to try.

As for the Xbox 360 being pulled from retail stores in Japan, this is no surprise. It's also of little concern, given the continuing marginalization of Japan as an engine for driving innovation and determining the success or failure of a platform. The Xbox brand has reinvigorated the western development houses and currently leads sales charts by a healthy margin outside of Japan. If Japanese developers want their games to be global successes, they will still develop for the 360. Even if they shift primary development to the PS3, they would be foolish to not spend the additional capital to port and make it accessible to applicable demographics for a market of 53 million.

Not to mention that if they drop support altogether for Western 360 markets, and the platform doesn't incur a hit in sales or popularity, they would risk marginalizing themselves even further. Better to have your products out there to culture the market, than to risk being left behind if the market decides Japan is simply no longer relevant.

StriderTuna

Aug 20, 2011, 01:02 PM

I don't think anything the japanese would make would as well on the 360 here as the typical 360 owner is far more likely someone who lives and breaths FPS/wRPGs than anything else ,including all the 12 year old halo fans.

But from what I see... PSO2 may do better on PCs as right now Priv. BB servers provide a PC PSO scene.

cyanprime

Aug 20, 2011, 01:05 PM

Xbox is shit in japan, and PS3's online sucks, so no consoles :(

DirksOak

Aug 20, 2011, 03:31 PM

Xbox is shit in japan, and PS3's online sucks, so no consoles :(

I like you :3

PALRAPPYS

Aug 20, 2011, 03:52 PM

Xbox is shit in japan, and PS3's online sucks, so no consoles :(

Oh the accuracy.

goldbrease

Aug 20, 2011, 05:48 PM

psn was not down for multiple months, it was down for a little over 3 weeks that spread over the end of one month and half way into the next.

Enforcer MKV

Aug 20, 2011, 06:29 PM

Qeez, so much hate for the consoles....

It's almost like.....

...you're all PC elitists. O.o

Kion

Aug 20, 2011, 06:54 PM

Qeez, so much hate for the consoles....

It's almost like.....

...you're all PC elitists. O.o

It's mostly because this topic has been ground into the dust. It's been confirmed since the first promo video that the game would be PC only. Since then there's probably been a topic a week: "QQ console release?".

It really don't make very much sense to release it on consoles. There's hardware limitations, and having to apply the game to different platforms. But most importantly the servers. Consoles are subject to the regulations of Microsoft, Sony, so you'd be pretty much be looking at a repeat of PSU, slow/no content updates and split servers.

It's not so much that people are elitists, it's more because you have to be a complete asshole to want this game on console.

kyuuketsuki

Aug 20, 2011, 07:04 PM

Qeez, so much hate for the consoles....

It's almost like.....

...you're all PC elitists. O.o
In any objective comparison, a PC is better in every way. All consoles are are specialized, underperforming computers after all. Consoles have two things going for them:

1) They're easy to use for people who aren't computer literate. I really have no compassion for anyone who has grown up in the past couple of decades and doesn't have a modicum of computer literacy, though (assuming they were raised in an industrialized country of course).
2) They are stable platforms since the hardware remains unchanged for long periods of time (until the next console comes out). This makes them easier to develop for since they don't have to take into account varied system configurations. However, this also drastically limits the technical progression of games for the very same reason.

Plus, the online for consoles really does suck. You either have draconian policies (Microsoft) that impede patch/content releases, or you have inept security and downtimes (Sony).

I own all three current consoles, though. Why? Because there are exclusive games that come out for each platform that I want to play. It'd be much better if I could own one platform and have access to all games, though. And porting across platforms is a much poorer solution than just having one superior platform.

And, what Kion said.

Enforcer MKV

Aug 20, 2011, 07:05 PM

It's mostly because this topic has been ground into the dust. It's been confirmed since the first promo video that the game would be PC only. Since then there's probably been a topic a week: "QQ console release?".

It really don't make very much sense to release it on consoles. There's hardware limitations, and having to apply the game to different platforms. But most importantly the servers. Consoles are subject to the regulations of Microsoft, Sony, so you'd be pretty much be looking at a repeat of PSU, slow/no content updates and split servers.

It's not so much that people are elitists, it's more because you have to be a complete asshole to want this game on console.

Logic does not compute.

I was kidding about the elitist thing, anyway, so no harm.

-snip-

@Kyuu: Oh, I'm not debating which one is better in turns of hardware and such, PC is obviously better simple because it's so modular.

I just don't like it when people start insinuating that consoles are worthless - they aren't.

If you ask me, consoles are a prime example of how to get more with less, specifically because of said limitations.

People want good graphics more often than not. So, devs have to work harder to squeeze out every bit of power that consoles have. Computers always have that cushion of "Oh, we can just update the graphics card/RAM/Whatever-else-they-need."

Just my opinion of course, but I really do think the argument is valid.

Oh, and I thought that someone would take that seriously, so I wanted to point that out at the earliest chance I got. *(Well, outside of the original post.)

kyuuketsuki

Aug 20, 2011, 07:10 PM

I was kidding about the elitist thing, anyway, so no harm.
-_- Bad Enforcer. It's hard to tell through text if you don't use an emoticon or fake [joshing] forum tags or something. :-P

Serephim

Aug 20, 2011, 07:17 PM

I dont think the argument is so bad as the amount of bashing from each side...

"PC SUCKS WE NEED CONSOLES"

"YOURE AN IDIOT IF U WANT IT ON CONSOLE PC IS SO MUCH BETTER HERES TONS OF PROOF"

Enforcer MKV

Aug 20, 2011, 07:21 PM

I dont think the argument is so bad as the amount of bashing from each side...

"PC SUCKS WE NEED CONSOLES"

"YOURE AN IDIOT IF U WANT IT ON CONSOLE PC IS SO MUCH BETTER HERES TONS OF PROOF"

Well, I'm all for discussion, but when the mudslinging starts, it turns into arguing, and I don't really like arguing.

But I'll have a nice, civilized debate with someone until the sun goes down, up, and down again....or until one of us runs out of things to debate. Whichever comes first.

...I'm a bit of an oddball, I think.

NoiseHERO

Aug 20, 2011, 07:35 PM

If this discussion ended 5 months ago, nobody would be compelled to troll and attack each others opinions as much.

Enforcer MKV

Aug 20, 2011, 07:40 PM

If this discussion ended 5 months ago, nobody would be compelled to troll and attack each others opinions as much.

this is probably true. :P

Sinue_v2

Aug 20, 2011, 08:54 PM

Well, I'm all for discussion, but when the mudslinging starts, it turns into arguing, and I don't really like arguing. But I'll have a nice, civilized debate with someone until the sun goes down, up, and down again....or until one of us runs out of things to debate. Whichever comes first.

Ironically, we've had far more respectful and productive discussions on the topic of religion, than we've yet had on PSO2 and consoles. Politics is probably still a bad idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if we could have a discussion there that's less volatile as well.

Beyond the trolls and elitists, though, I think a significant portion of the opposition to a console release stems from an irrational blaming of console platforms in general for the failure of PSU due to assumed or asserted inherent faults. Some of this may also have been bolstered by Sega's own excuses for why they couldn't support their own game... which to me don't really hold water given their notoriety for post-hoc excuses to spin bad business decisions. A recent example of which being the whole "unique content"/"two different products" bag of shit.

Many of the problems which plagued PSU were not due to compromises forced upon it by the limitations of a console platform, but were rather a result of a poorly thought out business model which wasn't even recognized as a blunder until it was far too late. The damage had been done, and it was too late in the lifecycle to revise. There were also major problems resulting in a lack of clear focus or vision on what the game was supposed to even be due to the shifting of gears between the online game and offline single-player campaign mid-development. Not to mention the poorly optimized inter-corporate communication and game management struggles. Namely Sega of Japan wanting to be in total control of content, management, and release schedules, despite the claim that the EU/US releases were completely separate product lines.

While there are some good points to keeping PSO2 on the PC, I don't think the vast majority of commonly asserted "horrors" to come from a multiplatform release would really hold up to critical inquiry. Especially now that we've seen quite a bit of PSO2 in action and have more substantial info to go by, many of these claims just don't hold water. For instance, consoles holding back the game's graphics is a moot point now that we know the specs and have seen the engine in play. It's already well within current console graphics capabilities. Further, the decision to continue using GameGuard as a security measure does not inspire confidence. From a security and anti-cheating perspective, the Xbox 360 is now the most attractive option.

Remember, PSU also launched on the PC, and it was the cheaters and security issues which drove the exodus of remaining players to the 360 version. Further, were the PC so attractive of a stand-alone platform for online Phantasy Star game management, then why shut down the PC version rather than just cut the PS2 and 360 loose so as to more freely implement and manage content... a move similar to what they did in Japan?

cyanprime

Aug 20, 2011, 09:23 PM

I'd love to see PSO2 on the Wii-U :)

Zynetic

Aug 20, 2011, 10:04 PM

While there are some good points to keeping PSO2 on the PC, I don't think the vast majority of commonly asserted "horrors" to come from a multiplatform release would really hold up to critical inquiry.
I have to agree. The game could easily be done on a console and still have alot more added to it using DLC. It wouldn't be hard to pull off providing that SEGA can release updates and content at a decent pace.

That being said, were Microsoft really the reason Sega couldn't release things for PSU? I can't see Microsoft being the sole reason why the US/EU servers of Phantasy Star Universe are one and a half years behind the JP PC servers. I can expect things to be slightly slower, but the huge gap has left me wondering. If anything, I would blame SEGA themselves.

Porting the game to consoles wouldn't restrict SEGA in any way. PSO was also on consoles, when it could've easily been on computers (which it was, actually, looking at V2/BB) for 'no content limitations', yet there were no complaints about PSO being on consoles.

Further, the decision to continue using GameGuard as a security measure does not inspire confidence.
I would love to know why companies continue to use GameGuard. I have heard everything about this GameGuard negatively, ranging from giving trojans and being absolutely lackluster when it comes to security.

Cost, perhaps?

Remember, PSU also launched on the PC, and it was the cheaters and security issues which drove the exodus of remaining players to the 360 version. Further, were the PC so attractive of a stand-alone platform for online Phantasy Star game management, then why shut down the PC version rather than just cut the PS2 and 360 loose so as to more freely implement and manage content... a move similar to what they did in Japan?

Simple: Revenue. They were making so much more from the 360 version in the West due to the 360 being revered as the best console. They shut down the PC/PS2 servers due to the "lack of players", which was probably caused by themselves, especially after the bug/glitch I've heard about that stopped people from playing during the MAG event.

I'm pretty sure you already know why the 360 version was continued in the West, but I thought I'd post for... slower readers.

I can see PSO2 making its way to a console, especially in the West, as the majority of gamers are on the Xbox 360 rather than the computer, but it all depends what revenue they obtain from the West on the PC. On the other hand, they may just shut down the servers prematurely, as they did with Blue Burst in the West, due to a declining population and lack of revenue compared to Japan.

Remember, everything is done for money. While Sakai does say the game will be on PC only, it all depends on how well it is received finacially in the West.

Though personally, if it was ported to a console, I would rather it be on the PS3 than the 360. While people do complain about Sony's security issues after the PSN outage, I honestly cannot believe that it was because of very lax security. There's going to be someone out there with the skills to take something down through some sort of exploit; it's just a matter of someone finding it and doing it.

cyanprime

Aug 21, 2011, 12:09 AM

Though personally, if it was ported to a console, I would rather it be on the PS3 than the 360. While people do complain about Sony's security issues after the PSN outage, I honestly cannot believe that it was because of very lax security. There's going to be someone out there with the skills to take something down through some sort of exploit; it's just a matter of someone finding it and doing it.

You do know they stored the passwords as plain text, right?

Mag-X

Aug 21, 2011, 12:41 AM

I really don't think the game will do any better or worse just because it is PC only. There are plenty of people still playing PSO:BB, and it's PC only, ten years old, and running on a buggy, unofficial, hacked together server.

Kion

Aug 21, 2011, 01:17 AM

Ironically, we've had far more respectful and productive discussions on the topic of religion, than we've yet had on PSO2 and consoles. Politics is probably still a bad idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if we could have a discussion there that's less volatile as well.

I think that as far as religion goes, it's easy to be respectful as long as other's beliefs don't intrude on their own. However, everyone has a vested interest in what platform PSO2 will be on, so I think topic on it get heated pretty quickly. Everyone wants to enjoy PSO2 to it's full extent, that much everyone can agree on.

Beyond the trolls and elitists, though, I think a significant portion of the opposition to a console release stems from an irrational blaming of console platforms in general for the failure of PSU due to assumed or asserted inherent faults. Some of this may also have been bolstered by Sega's own excuses for why they couldn't support their own game... which to me don't really hold water given their notoriety for post-hoc excuses to spin bad business decisions. A recent example of which being the whole "unique content"/"two different products" bag of shit.

Agreed, PSU definitely had a bad business plan, but they kept up support and kept a healthy population on the JP PC servers, proving that they have it in them. I don't think it was as much as a technical problem as much as they didn't care to spend the time to keep the US servers updated. I don't think they were in a cultural or geographic position to respond to the needs of the NA servers. I have to hand it to the NA Sega GM's, it looked like RubyEclipse did try and kept tabs on PSO-World.

As far as PSO2 goes, I don't think it's platform as much as our best chances of getting new content, updates and maintaining the services is going to be linked servers with the JP side, just so we can coincidentally reap the benefits of the effort they put into their local side.

BioWarrior

Aug 21, 2011, 01:35 AM

cyanprime

Aug 21, 2011, 02:43 AM

I'd rather it be on the 360 so all my info doesn't get stolen.

Kent

Aug 21, 2011, 04:49 AM

All I can say is, if by some miracle it comes to consoles. Please please let it hit PS3 and not 360. Canceling 360 PSU was the biggest pain ever, had to call Microsoft which means 80% of the time you'll be speaking to India.
I've had to make a few calls to Xbox Support, but I've had no problems at any point - and only once did I get someone who sounded vaguely-foreign. Most of the time it was either a neutrally-accented and slightly-overexcited guy, or what sounded like a nice lady from the west coast.

But it's worth noting that canceling my PSO and PSU licenses literally took about a minute (not counting time on hold, of course - which is typically pretty short unless it's during the holidays). I do agree that they should let you do that kind of thing online though - especially since Microsoft does almost literally everything else online, anyway.

Bushido

Aug 21, 2011, 06:16 AM

I'd rather it be on the 360 so all my info doesn't get stolen.

I'd rather it be on PS3 so that I don't have to pay for an online service I wouldn't care to use on top of my Hunter License.

NoiseHERO

Aug 21, 2011, 07:14 AM

I'd rather it be on PS3 so that I don't have to pay for an online service I wouldn't care to use on top of my Hunter License.

PSU could be played with a silver account!

STOP TALKINGGGG!!!

Enforcer MKV

Aug 21, 2011, 10:20 AM

PSU could be played with a silver account!

STOP TALKINGGGG!!!

lol, thank you, Mich. XD

Anyway, serious talking.

Thank you Sinue, really, for being able to be mature about this. :P

Thank you for pointing out all of the things I was thinking but didn't post because I didn't want to deal with being Char-broiled. XD

Zyrusticae

Aug 21, 2011, 10:49 AM

Reasons why US PC/PS2 PSU cut the plug:

1. No trial. No free trial = no try before you buy = lots and LOTS of lost potential customers. (This is one reason for the relative success of the 360 version - it DID have a free trial.)
2. No advertising money. No advertising = no influx of new players outside of the players' own efforts, which, when the player base is in the low thousands, is not going to happen.
3. Too far down the rabbit hole already. As mentioned above, the population fell to incredibly dire levels. This means less funding. Less funding = less money for advertising, translating updates, and so forth.
4. The game tanked at release. As new MMO releases have taught us time and time again, you CANNOT recover from a botched release without a huge revamp (AotI sort of applies here) AND plenty of advertising for that revamp. Oh, but this is an interesting point - why did it tank at release? Well, besides the fact that the gameplay was only a half-step ahead of the original PSO, there's the fact that a shitload of content was locked ON THE DISC because of the PS2 version of the game and because of incredibly stupid management decisions at Sega. Thankfully, this no longer applies to the modern console generation because every console comes standard with a hard drive.
5. Speaking of stupid management decisions, who the hell stores passwords in plain text?! And why, WHY did they not have a server-side authenticator to keep people from doing incredibly basic hacks like the store trick?

In summary, management of PSU was a failure at all levels. If they did even one thing better, it wouldn't have been shut down. Such a damned shame, really.

That aside, I still support the maintenance of PSO2 on the PC platform because, as Sakai said, it will allow the game to continue to grow infinitely. Yes, the 360 and PS3 no longer suffer from the same limitations that plagued their predecessors, but they still have quite a few limitations over the PC. Not only that, their life cycles are ending within the next 5 years - it's clear that Sega plans on maintaining the game beyond the current console life cycle.

For the PSO2 team, this is their magnum opus - this is a game they want to be remembered for even longer than the original PSO, a game marveled for its initial successes and admired even more for how it continues to expand post-release. I'm quite excited for that, really. If their ambitions come to fruition, all of us will benefit for it. Why argue? Just accept it for what it is.

Macras

Aug 24, 2011, 03:17 AM

the main reason i see a ps3 port being many times more likely than a 360 port is the simple fact that PSU only had the PC/PS2 communities being interlaced while the 360ians were forced onto their own island.

and with sega, we all know SOMETHING is going to go wrong with PSO2, im just waiting to witness what it will be this time

Noel Vermillion

Aug 24, 2011, 04:10 AM

Mekimaru

Aug 24, 2011, 06:31 AM

Yeah my Xbox 360 broke 4 times, and my PS3 died shortly after warranty. I think I'll be PC gaming for some years to come from now on, unless I can get my hands on a cheap PS3.

get the old ps3 , my friend loves hers cus the old ps3 is the only one that can play ps2 games... apprantly the new ps3 cant, altho iv never tried this tbh :-)

Lolitron

Aug 24, 2011, 06:48 AM

An interesting read. I actually enjoyed going through this topic as it stayed mostly civil and brought up many good points :).

Anon_Fire

Aug 24, 2011, 08:47 AM

I'd love to see PSO2 on the Wii-U :)

It hasn't been released yet.

PSU could be played with a silver account!

STOP TALKINGGGG!!!

Even if it were to come to the 360, what if it forced you to play with a gold account?

Kent

Aug 24, 2011, 09:57 PM

Even if it were to come to the 360, what if it forced you to play with a gold account?
If it's a subscription-based game, they could possibly do what's being done with the Xbox 360 version of that online Monster Hunter game: Basically, by paying the subscription for it gives you a monthly Gold subscription as a benefit of paying the monthly fee.

Of course, they're doing that in Japan because, well, it's Japan.

A more likely scenario stateside, would be them cutting some sort of deal with Microsoft regarding Xbox Live... But it's highly unlikely that you'd be required to pay for Gold as well as pay for the game's monthly fee (which, it may not even have in the first place, so who knows?).

Arkios

Aug 24, 2011, 10:07 PM

I'll be playing PSO2 on my PC, with an XBox 360 controller. Step away from your disgusting consoles and join the PC master race.

Kent

Aug 24, 2011, 10:27 PM

Step away from your disgusting consoles and join the PC master race.
I've always wondered if people that legitimately hold that attitude understand the connotations of calling themselves the "master race."

NoiseHERO

Aug 24, 2011, 10:27 PM

It hasn't been released yet.

Even if it were to come to the 360, what if it forced you to play with a gold account?

Who are you talking to? I don't care about XBOX.

Was just saying they probably wouldn't be dumb enough to make you pay for gold AND their game, when you didn't have to with PSU.

But putting this game on XBOX in general would already send SEGA through too much trouble either way... because Microsoft is annoying

Arkios

Aug 24, 2011, 10:31 PM

I've always wondered if people that legitimately hold that attitude understand the connotations of calling themselves the "master race."

It was a joke and I doubt anyone would ever say that seriously.

Zyrusticae

Aug 24, 2011, 10:33 PM

I've always wondered if people that legitimately hold that attitude understand the connotations of calling themselves the "master race."
I know when I say it, it's always tongue-firmly-in-cheek.

...But still, exclusively console-focused gamers will always be peasants in my mind from now on, just because it is such a funny mental image.

NoiseHERO

Aug 24, 2011, 10:33 PM

It was a joke and I doubt anyone would ever say that seriously.

They may as well...

Since people take this "WHICH DEVICE CAN PLAY VIDEO GAMES BETTER" crap so seriously.

Serephim

Aug 24, 2011, 10:41 PM

...But still, exclusively console-focused gamers will always be peasants in my mind from now on, just because it is such a funny mental image.

I really can't see how. PC gaming just isn't the same experience, and due to the control methods they aren't always the same game. I just can't see myself playing Devil May Cry 4 or Halo 3 on my PC (even though halo 3 isn't for PC, its a console shooter).

Me personally am a JRPG freak, and they've pretty much been console exclusive forever. I'd never waste my time buying those PC versions of games like Final Fantasy VII/VIII, or Sonic or Tomb Raider or anything like that. Action games, platformers. Also both console. PC gamers enjoy point-click adventure games and first person shooters. I personally HATE point-click shit, and im getting tired very fast of FPS games these days.

Oh, and also MMOs, which if you exclude World of Warcraft, is SATURATED with terrible garbage.

PC gaming is fun for some things, but some things are just better on Consoles. The only reason why PSO2 is PC-exclusive is because it's gunning for longevity and flexibility, which is more of a PC-kinda thing.

But as for PSO2? I sympathize with the people who dont like the switch to PC, because it's a 100% justified problem. Phantasy Star Online was a CONSOLE MMO, not a PC mmo. It's only recently becoming that way. People who've only been playing Phantasy Star Titles on consoles are getting left in the dust.

I'd take my bed/coutch, a controller, and my TELEVISION over a mouse+keyboard+chair+monitor any day of the freakin week. And i feel like a dumbass using my PS3 remote with my laptop. Just doesn't seem right.

NoiseHERO

Aug 24, 2011, 10:47 PM

I really can't see how. PC gaming just isn't the same experience, and due to the control methods they aren't always the same game. I just can't see myself playing Devil May Cry 4 or Halo 3 on my PC (even though halo 3 isn't for PC, its a console shooter).

Me personally am a JRPG freak, and they've pretty much been console exclusive forever. I'd never waste my time buying those PC versions of games like Final Fantasy VII/VIII, or Sonic or Tomb Raider or anything like that. Action games, platformers. Also both console. PC gamers enjoy point-click adventure games and first person shooters. I personally HATE point-click shit, and im getting tired very fast of FPS games these days.

Oh, and also MMOs, which if you exclude World of Warcraft, is SATURATED with terrible garbage.

PC gaming is fun for some things, but some things are just better on Consoles. The only reason why PSO2 is PC-exclusive is because it's gunning for longevity and flexibility, which is more of a PC-kinda thing.

But as for PSO2? I sympathize with the people who dont like the switch to PC, because it's a 100% justified problem. Phantasy Star Online was a CONSOLE MMO, not a PC mmo. It's only recently becoming that way. People who've only been playing Phantasy Star Titles on consoles are getting left in the dust.

I'd take my bed/coutch, a controller, and my TELEVISION over a mouse+keyboard+chair+monitor any day of the freakin week. And i feel like a dumbass using my PS3 remote with my laptop. Just doesn't seem right.

WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU TYPING!

PC games can be played JUST like console games, you just named a bunch of crappy stereotypical reasons for not liking PC anything!

Stop hatin'!

Vashyron

Aug 24, 2011, 10:51 PM

I really can't see how. PC gaming just isn't the same experience, and due to the control methods they aren't always the same game. I just can't see myself playing Devil May Cry 4 or Halo 3 on my PC (even though halo 3 isn't for PC, its a console shooter).

Plug in a controller.

PC gamers enjoy point-click adventure games and first person shooters.

No.

Oh, and also MMOs, which if you exclude World of Warcraft, is SATURATED with terrible garbage.

While you can find much crap, you can also find some good ones, where as on consoles for your ORPG needs you have very little choices and if the game's support is crap (guess the example I'm talking about here) you have to either deal wit it or go and probably play a different genre.

I'd take my bed/coutch, a controller, and my TELEVISION over a mouse+keyboard+chair+monitor any day of the freakin week.

:wacko:

Pik

Aug 24, 2011, 11:02 PM

"Me personally am a JRPG freak, and they've pretty much been console exclusive forever. I'd never waste my time buying those PC versions of games like Final Fantasy VII/VIII, or Sonic or Tomb Raider or anything like that. Action games, platformers. Also both console. PC gamers enjoy point-click adventure games and first person shooters. I personally HATE point-click shit, and im getting tired very fast of FPS games these days"

Now, I am aware of what a point-and-click game is on a pc, but in a JRPG... MOST of them only require menu selections. I don't understand how you can strictly hate point-and-click games, but you are a huge fan of a genre where you do little else than select menus.

Btw, I love JRPGs too; I just see most of them only seperated from point-and-clicks by a very fine line.

Serephim

Aug 24, 2011, 11:26 PM

Plug in a controller.

....i do?

No.enlighten me then!

While you can find much crap, you can also find some good ones, where as on consoles for your ORPG needs you have very little choices and if the game's support is crap (guess the example I'm talking about here) you have to either deal wit it or go and probably play a different genre.
thats obvious for anything you talk about, though. Of course you can find good ones. I just dont care to waste time looking : /

Now, I am aware of what a point-and-click game is on a pc, but in a JRPG... MOST of them only require menu selections. I don't understand how you can strictly hate point-and-click games, but you are a huge fan of a genre where you do little else than select menus.

Well, JRPGs didn't always used to be like they are today (trash). And anyway, trust me there is a difference. It's more than just the control scheme and video output device. Jrpgs and Wrpgs each seem to focus on different aspects...i tend to like JRPGs more though.

kyuuketsuki

Aug 24, 2011, 11:56 PM

I'd never waste my time buying those PC versions of games like Final Fantasy VII/VIII, or Sonic or Tomb Raider or anything like that. Action games, platformers.Your loss. The PC version of FF7 with the custom DirectX wrapper (or whatever it is) is freaking awesome. They even have a mod that fixes the music so you don't get the jacked up midis.

PC gamers enjoy point-click adventure games and first person shooters. I personally HATE point-click shit, and im getting tired very fast of FPS games these days.Oh yay, let's have a debate that revolves around inaccurate stereotyping of groups of people. Not to mention how incredibly popular FPS games are on consoles (Resistance: FoM, Halo, Call of Duty, shall I go on?).

So what "classification" does someone like me fit into, who owns a gaming PC, an Xbox 360, a PS3, and a Wii? I haven't touched my Wii since I played Okami quite a while ago, last thing I played on my 360 was Mass Effect 2 (and that's only because I borrowed a friend's copy of the original so I was kinda roped into continuing it on the 360 instead of switching to PS3), and I never quite finished FF13 on the PS3... just don't like how it plays with the AI-controlled party members, the super-linear run-forward gameplay, and all the things it lacks from previous good FFs). I recently finished The Witcher and have been playing The Witcher 2 off-and-on on my PC. I plan on getting the new Deus Ex soon... I'd prefer on the PC, but I may get it on the PS3 because my girlfriend likes to watch me play games sometimes and it's a lot easier for her to do so on the living room TV than in my office on my PC monitor.

I've been playing games on consoles since the Genesis (and I got that adapter thing to let me play Master System games on it) and PCs since my Macintosh IIci (Escape Velocity, Marathon...). What the heck is the point of this bickering about platforms? All platforms do is divide developers and thus exclude people who can't afford every platform from having access to some games.

And let's not forget that all consoles are are specialized computers with propriety accessories.

What's the point of all this rambling? I dunno. What's the point of all this bickering?

Oh, and also MMOs, which if you exclude World of Warcraft, is SATURATED with terrible garbage. WoW is saturated with plenty of garbage nowadays too. Hasn't been worth a damn since vanilla WoW. Even then, without the social aspect, the gameplay has always been pretty meh.

PC gaming is fun for some things, but some things are just better on Consoles.Nothing is "better" on a console. What's the difference between playing Super Mario on my PC with an emulator and a gamepad and doing the same on an original NES? Like, nothing, except the emulator lets me save whenever I want.

But as for PSO2? I sympathize with the people who dont like the switch to PC, because it's a 100% justified problem. Phantasy Star Online was a CONSOLE MMO, not a PC mmo. It's only recently becoming that way. People who've only been playing Phantasy Star Titles on consoles are getting left in the dust.What's the 100% justified problem? Building a low-end gaming rig that can handle it? How's that different than if it had been released for PS3 only and all the Xbox owners had to buy a new PS3, or vice versa, or it was only released on the PS Vita and you had to buy one of those? And hey, if they get a PC now they can get some cool emulators and play all the old school Phantasy Stars again without having to dig their Master System and Genesis out of the depths of their basements.

I'd take my bed/coutch, a controller, and my TELEVISION over a mouse+keyboard+chair+monitor any day of the freakin week.You can hook a computer up to a TV and use a gamepad if it's really that important to you, and you don't have to deal with trying to talk to people using a virtual keyboard. Oh I know, voice chat right? Because you can't do that on PCs...

I have nothing against consoles, I really don't. I just don't get people who claim that they have some innate superiority to a PC for any sort of gaming. Consoles are just computers with a set, unchanging hardware configuaration and proprietary accessories.

Vashyron

Aug 25, 2011, 12:27 AM

....i do?

What is this magical difference between using a 360 Controller on a PC and a 360 Controller on the actual 360, say on the game DMC4?

enlighten me then!

All PC Gamers all love their point & click games and their FPSes, right, right?

Idiotic stereotype.

thats obvious for anything you talk about, though. Of course you can find good ones. I just dont care to waste time looking : /

In the MMO/ORPG genre PC has a massive wave of these compared to quite nothing at all on consoles. You have much more choice here alone.

Crap is going to turn up anywhere you look, if you don't want to spend some time to actually find a gem and enjoy it and rather be limited in selection inside specific genres, go ahead.

I have nothing against consoles, I really don't. I just don't get people who claim that they have some innate superiority to a PC for any sort of gaming. Consoles are just computers with a set, unchanging hardware configuaration and proprietary accessories.^

Serephim

Aug 25, 2011, 12:39 AM

Oh my god what is all this

I have nothing against consoles, I really don't. I just don't get people who claim that they have some innate superiority to a PC for any sort of gaming. Consoles are just computers with a set, unchanging hardware configuaration and proprietary accessories.then why the HELL are you going on and on to me like i said anything of the sort?

How is it so hard to understand that i dont like doing everything sitting down in front of my god damned computer?

It really isn't complicated! Some games i'd rather play on PC, some id rather play on my console. Im not about to go back and forth over something so stupid. It's like you guys argue just to argue, man.

All this shit about stereotypes and crap....where the hell is it even coming from? Are you guys being serious right now?

Anon_Fire

Aug 25, 2011, 12:44 AM

Do you guys really wanna bring back this old argument? I sure don't

kyuuketsuki

Aug 25, 2011, 12:51 AM

Do you guys really wanna bring back this old argument? I sure don't
So what you're saying is, make love not war? Peace and happiness?

GET OUT YOU HIPPY. >.>

Vashyron

Aug 25, 2011, 01:03 AM

Funny enough people throw out their side of the argument, (that here seemingly started from a joke!) but don't expect people to do a counter argument?

What is this, I don't even.

All this shit about stereotypes and crap....where the hell is it even coming from? Are you guys being serious right now?

PC gamers enjoy point-click adventure games and first person shooters.And I am done.

Arkios

Aug 25, 2011, 01:10 AM

The master race wins again.

kyuuketsuki

Aug 25, 2011, 02:41 AM

Yeah, Serephim... you said PC gamers only enjoy point-and-click games and FPS. Call it a stereotype, over-generalizing, whatever appeals to your sense of semantics. It's just as absurd and erroneous as saying all Xbox 360 owners only like Halo, all Wii owners only like casual sports titles, all PS3 owners only like, uh... whatever the "go to" title/genre is on the PS3, or all smartphone owners only like casual physics-based puzzle games like Angry Birds.

Serephim

Aug 25, 2011, 10:25 AM

Funny enough people throw out their side of the argument, (that here seemingly started from a joke!) but don't expect people to do a counter argument?

What is this, I don't even.

And I am done.

Did i say thats ALL you play? No, but seeming all the popular anticipated games are falling into those genre; point click adventures and shooting games. There's nothing wrong with that. The mouse is by far the most precise method for an FPS game, and as such is the best method for point-click adventure style RPGs.

I dont see many good platformers, action games, or fighting games for PC, and those happen to be more up my ally in terms of what im going to buy. I just DON'T. Not even the bad ones get a PC release. I asked you to "ENLIGHTEN ME", and all you did was throw out "stereotype". That's just a bad defense, you didn't even answer my question. You just kept going on and on about crap i dont even care about.

Which brings me back to my original statement, "I DONT FEEL LIKE DOING EVERYTHING SITTING IN FRONT OF MY DAMN COMPUTER." Maybe you dont mind sitting in a chair all day, but if im going to waste my life im going to at LEAST switch up my location. It's easier to bring console to a friends house than a gaming rig for multiplayer, and its much more likely to find someone with a gaming console than it is to find someone with a significant gaming rig. I could easily go find a net cafe with tons of computers to play on...but i'd rather play console games, because there is nothing i'd really care to go to a netcafe to play. (MW2, Counterstrike, WoW, blah blah). However when consoles are up, i see games like Melee, Brawl, Blazblue, Street Fighter, Halo Reach, MvC3....all games more up my ally in terms of what i'd competitively play. (excluding MVC3, MW2 and brawl because tehy're unbalanced trash :3) The only one of those games that are on PC is Street Fighter, and...well, i'd rather play on console.

Man, all this because someone DENIED that PC is the "LOLSUPERIOR PLATFORM". Seriously guys, grow up man.

Enforcer MKV

Aug 25, 2011, 10:48 AM

Wow, I was tempted to post something really really aggressive...

Good thing I managed to keep my composure. -.-;

Serephim

Aug 25, 2011, 10:52 AM

: 0

At this point if it's directed at me, i'll probably just ignore it. This is a battle of opinions anyway, when you try to throw in logic to support your side, you only make yourself sound crazy.

Zynetic

Aug 25, 2011, 10:54 AM

Serephim, calling things opinions (when they're not) is not a good way to win an argument/debate.

In fact, it makes you look stupid.

Zaix

Aug 25, 2011, 10:54 AM

Console wars in general make you sound crazy...

MistyWaters

Aug 25, 2011, 10:57 AM

We all enjoy video games. Can't we just get along?

*Hippie*

Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another right now~

Serephim

Aug 25, 2011, 11:00 AM

Serephim, calling things opinions (when they're not) is not a good way to win an argument/debate.

In fact, it makes you look stupid.

Zynetic, calling things facts (when they're not) is a great way to win an argument/debate.

But unfortunately, for anyone with any sense, it doesn't work, and just makes you look not only stupid but desperate as well. It's one of those "hey he probably wont reply if i say this so i can make it look like i won" kind of thing. You know, the kind of thing that 6th graders pull.

Zynetic

Aug 25, 2011, 11:03 AM

Zaix

Aug 25, 2011, 11:05 AM

What fun! Now its an argument/ debate about how to argue/debate properly...

kyuuketsuki

Aug 25, 2011, 11:14 AM

But unfortunately, for anyone with any sense, it doesn't work, and just makes you look not only stupid but desperate as well. It's one of those "hey he probably wont reply if i say this so i can make it look like i won" kind of thing. You know, the kind of thing that 6th graders pull.Ah good, the good old "NO U" argument. This is totally becoming productive.

Zaix

Aug 25, 2011, 11:16 AM

So about Xbox 360 not doing so well in Japan...

Serephim

Aug 25, 2011, 11:17 AM

Okay, I'll waste my time on you (although I'd rather not).

You are saying consoles are better than PCs due to x, y and z. People are telling you these problems are rectified due to a, b and c, plus a computer can do alot more. (I forget what's been said exactly, but it's along these lines)

Incorrect, and this is where you people are just going over my heads with this dumb crap.

I'm saying consoles are PREFERRED to PCs due to x, y and z. People are telling me why they SHOULDN'T be due to a, b and c, because like you said, a computer can do alot more. But that has nothing to do with anything, and i dont give a shit because i already TOLD you what i prefer.

You are also stereotyping PC players, and people are debunking this stereotype.Once again incorrect. I made a simple generalization, and people are stereotyping ME as a "PC stereotyper" and thus (apparently) feel the need to "school the fanboy". Oh well, whatever. It's the internet, people take shit seriously.

How are these opinions? People are saying PCs are better because of what they offer compared to consoles, not because they prefer a specific element of what a computer offers.Because they are. What seems to elude you is that while a computer can certainly run whatever software a console can, eventually better, they are not always offering the same experience. The same way a horror movie can be played in an IMAX movie theater or at 2:00AM in a dark room on an SDTV by yourself.

It's that simple. The issue here seems to be that you want me to suddenly change my mind and agree with you that PCs are the "master race" of gaming because they can do everything that consoles can. But you aren't realizing that LOL i dont care what you think, and im going to do things my way, because thats where my preferences lie.

Can you guys shut up about this now. there's nothing to discuss anymore.

MistyWaters

Aug 25, 2011, 11:21 AM

Yap yap yap yap yap.

I think I memmer hearing about the Xbox not doing well in Japan for a loooong time, as far back as to when it first came out in like.. What was it, 2003?

Serephim

Aug 25, 2011, 11:22 AM

So anyway, yeah, Xbox does not appeal to japanese people. M$ has known this forever. Their little campaign to "conquor japan" was doomed from the start

Zaix

Aug 25, 2011, 11:23 AM

If I recall part of the reason was the Xbox was just a big black box and wasn't as stylish as gamecube and ps2

Serephim

Aug 25, 2011, 11:24 AM

I thought it was the games too.

Hell, i had a Gamecube that entire generation, and suffered as i got absolutely no games for like 2-3 years (and watched Twilight Princess get pushed back to release on the crappy Wii)

But i was never interested in Xbox, because all the games i wanted were on PS2. I think thats whats happening here.

Zaix

Aug 25, 2011, 11:27 AM

I played a ton of GC stuff back in the day (e.g. PSO). I think PS2 was my least used because my brother always was using it.

MistyWaters

Aug 25, 2011, 11:29 AM

Kinda lost interest with the PS2. I mostly used to to play my PS games, since that system had a sticky Open button.

But they were all just.. black boxes. Though it was a pretty big box. Having so many consoles, you kinda lose space for such a beast.

Serephim

Aug 25, 2011, 11:30 AM

Well, funny story, i only got a PS2 because PSU was coming out and i didn't have a strong enough PC for it at the time.

But then i also got to play all the final fantasy games i missed (FFX, FFX-2, FFXII), as well as other games i was really mad i didnt get (DBZ Budokai 3, Soul Calibur 3, Metal Gear Solid 2-3), ect.

Man, i fell in love with that PS2. So many great games i had missed....before, i was forced to play Final Fantasy X using my sister's PS2 (and it was her game too). Then i got my own and was able to chip my life away in my OWN room :D

anndddd then i piratebay'd PSUPC and dropped the crappy PS2 version....only to have the servers shut down.

Zaix

Aug 25, 2011, 11:35 AM

The PC version of PSU really was the best in the end except for the xbox live functions. It had the highest framerate, dynamic shadows, and the most visual effects. (Yes I've played every version)

MistyWaters

Aug 25, 2011, 11:37 AM

PSU was really the very first PC game I ever played. Although I was only able to enjoy it for like.. 2 months... I'm happy to say I got everything I wanted to get within that time frame though.

Zaix

Aug 25, 2011, 11:43 AM

My laptop from 06 saw nothing but PSU for 2 years or so. I've never been a huge PC gamer but I do play Sims occasionally and various MMO's for a time.

Serephim

Aug 25, 2011, 11:44 AM

man PSUPC was the shit, dude. I was able to play on my PC for event missions and stuff, and then go back to my room and chill to level my technics on PS2.

The Ps2 version was sooooo BADDDD, when my technics got to 31, sometimes in more hectic missions i'd actually get graphical bugs. It's like the game was literally melting my PS2.

It ran great, super smooth and all. I got the Xbox360 version, it just didn't feel the same because i could no longer take screenshots and stuff.

kyuuketsuki

Aug 25, 2011, 03:17 PM

Glad you finally came around, Sereph. :)

Serephim

Aug 25, 2011, 03:36 PM

Heh, you guys are persistent, aren't you

kyuuketsuki

Aug 25, 2011, 03:42 PM

Heh, you guys are persistent, aren't you
Nah, just trying to bring a little levity.

Besides, I figure we probably agree more on the actual issue than it would seem, the "discussion" has just gotten derailed with a few too many ruffled feathers on both sides.

Serephim

Aug 25, 2011, 05:41 PM

Heh well okay : 3

Keilyn

Aug 26, 2011, 12:28 PM

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/17/report-japanese-retailers-backing-away-from-xbox-360/

with no word on a console release at all this may have just killed any potential xbox release.

Most Japanese Developers side with Sony or Wii because they are also Japanese. However Xbox has the majority of global developers on its side and there are many Developers who REFUSE to deal with the Japanese in Game Development.

Thanks to the increase in SmartPhone Gaming and Tablet PC gaming, along with massive price cuts on them that now they cost less than a lot of proprietary handhelds, no one really cares about PSP or 3DS.

Either Japan plays ball with the rest of the world and as usual they will isolate from the rest of the world. These are great times indeed. For the first time in history, Japan has lost all leads on the console and handheld market and they are now going to the West....

I wouldn't want PSO-2 on a 360. That would force playing a game in Direct X 9c before the invention of CUDA and have no real Direct X 10 or Direct X 11 support.

I wont play it....but I hope it stays on PC-Only. ^_^

prowler_

Aug 26, 2011, 05:03 PM

no one really cares about PSP or 3DS. [...] Japan has lost all leads on the console and handheld market and they are now going to the West...Are you still talking about Japan here?

EvilJohn

Aug 26, 2011, 05:29 PM

PC for RPG xbox for FPS/Racing games.

SnowfoxZero

Aug 26, 2011, 05:48 PM

The 360 is heavily dated anyways, it would be nice to see a new one in the future but it doesn't look like it's going to happen anyways, but there would probably be a better chance of seeing a console release if nextgen consoles came out.

Macras

Aug 26, 2011, 06:53 PM

Serephim

Aug 26, 2011, 07:29 PM

If japan would stop acting like such dinosaurs, then maybe they'd still be leading the market.

Honestly, i wish they were still running shit.

kyuuketsuki

Aug 26, 2011, 07:55 PM

If japan would stop acting like such dinosaurs[...]
???

Honestly, i wish they were still running shit.
When were they running "shit", and what was the "shit"?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, these are honest questions.

NoiseHERO

Aug 26, 2011, 08:12 PM

Enforcer MKV

Aug 26, 2011, 09:29 PM

Serephim

Aug 26, 2011, 11:20 PM

^
I think he meant japan needs to hop off turn based/classic dated gameplay for RPG's and that he wish they were still the best in the market...

Iono...

Japan REALLY sucks no because everything awesome from there that was apart of our childhood slowly got killed off one by one, though.

Seriously... everything awesome from the 90's is dead...

Japan sucks because first off, they refuse to acknoledge the newer more popular things in the market. Notice how long the PS2 has been popular? I think its a sort of slippery slope with the quality of their games. JRPGs are absolute trash now, i dont think there should be any doubt why they dont sell anymore -- they aren't good anymore. They keep focusing all on the wrong stuff, they're starting to look like First Person Shooters now in terms of how not unique they are. Final Fantasy is still a great series, but GOD DAMN they are nothing close to what they used to be.

And now they keep adding in "WESTERN INFLUENCE", which isn't helping them in the slightest. It's just making their games worse as they struggle to find a middleground. And not to mention the culture. Nobody over here cares about Lolis, Moe or any of that other crazy crap they keep going on about. It's no surprise that infinity isnt coming over here...its main focus is nothing but LOLI MOE LOLITA 4'5" SEXBOTS WITH GLOWING BLADES!

Squaresoft used to make such amazing games...Square Enix makes GREAT games, but they just arent like they used to be. Capcom is slowly starting to fall off the map too. My first and favorite rpg series (Breath of Fire) has been ignored for the longest, and it looks like they're dropping Megaman too. And not to mention, the dipshits turned DMC over to some random ass western company...Nintendo makes good games but doesn't care about gamers anymore. Sega sucks because they just suck, seriously, they're only good for licensing games now.

I dont think japan is failing due to hanging on to traditions (afterall, thats what japan is all about really), i think they're failing because they're doing their traditions wrong.

Fucking 90s.....we're never getting them back, are we? I think the whole world is starting to notice that pretty much everything sucks now -- music, movies, videogames...everyone has gone from "LETS BE CREATIVE" to "LETS RIDE THIS TRAIN FOR AS MUCH MONEY AS WE CAN GET OFF IT".

NoiseHERO

Aug 26, 2011, 11:29 PM

Iono that's just what I thought you said. :\

But yeah like I already said, for me personally, every thing that made me like japan's gaming industry is pretty much dead.

At the top of my head even I can name 3 my MAIN favorites from my childhood as examples...

Megaman: Obvious story right now, CAPCOM pretty much "K.O.!!!" 'd him. and either way Inafune is gone...
Sonic: Only JUST started to get decent again...
Zelda: Nintendo makes like a zelda game every 5 years now? and none of the newer ones feel that memorable to me... I can't pay attention to those 2 DS ones... I've tried multiple times.

Serephim

Aug 26, 2011, 11:37 PM

I miss the 90s so much, lol. I miss actually anticipating games, OR, BETTER YET, being able to walk into a store and say "WOW THAT LOOKS COOL!" and actually buy it and have it be decent.

JRPGs are so cliche and boring now....the storylines and even the ART STYLES are all so similar. Not to say their old storylines wern't cheezy, but now we have bad cutscenes and voice acting to make it even worse, not to mention a complete denial of any REAL GAMEPLAY aside from talking and fighting. What happened to JRPGs man....

Zelda is good, but honestly i dont think they'll ever be able to outdo the Gamecube titles. (Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were so amazing). Metroid is dead. Other M murdered Samus with a chainsaw, she's just gonna become the next sex symbol for Nintendo. What happened to the Retro Studios metroid games? In the old games and Metroid Prime, the environments and gameplay was the biggest part of the game. And now with Other M, the biggest plotpoint of the whole game is the fact that Samus is a damn female -_-; Mario Galaxy 2 is one of the best games ive played as of late, sooo.....the new mario titles arent as fun as the old ones, though.

Platformers are GONE now, man they just completely disappeared. The only time you'll see a platformer now is if it's an Indie game.

And speaking of Sonic....those games are barely even platformers anymore. You just blast through pretty scenery.

BioWarrior

Aug 26, 2011, 11:59 PM

As far as JRPGs go, Lost Odyssey was freaking AMAZING and so was tales of vesperia. It's a shame most tales games never get localized. Also as far as platformers and sonic goes, Sonic Generations is looking great.

I would totally love a Phantasy Star V to pick up the old story line and gameplay though.

Bushido

Aug 27, 2011, 12:25 AM

I feel at home among all those comments, and while I don't particularly feel like adding my own thoughts at this very moment, know that you guys aren't the only ones missing oldschool (or even late oldschool / early newschool) gaming. It's great that gaming is expending to the masses and that multiple indie studios are popping up all over place, not to mention the vastly higher amount of western participation within the industry, but with all that comes the fazing out of true gaming.

Enforcer MKV

Aug 27, 2011, 01:05 AM

NEW WORLD ORDER! NEW WORLD ORDER!

Noel Vermillion

Aug 27, 2011, 02:29 AM

Kion

Aug 27, 2011, 02:32 AM

@Serephim the "let's be creative" versus "let's ride this for as much as possible" mostly reflects a change in the industry. Games cost a lot more to make, so publishers are taking less chances on games/studios that are innovative and try to go with games with stable sales. The thought process has become, "let's make the next Halo", instead of hitting the drawing board with something fresh.

The ironic thing is, that players are getting bored with the same old genre's repeated over and over again and sales are dropping. So the exact measures they're using to try and keep sales up is what's working against them.

The mentality is similar to hollywood. Hollywood sells movies. They have to keep making movies in order to sell them whether their inspired or not. That's why most of the movies that come out are the same cliche' crap. It's either because they're sticking to a formula, or because they're selling to the youth (because they haven't seen any other movie). It's very rare for someone like Tarantino or Spieldberg to have both economic and creative control of their movies. That's why they often stand out from the rest.

So consoles are not the place to expect innovation, Nintendo makes their money like this. They don't give a shit about what you think the latest Mario game hasn't changed the formula, the seasoned audience is not the target; it's for every 5 year old who hasn't discovered the mushroom kingdom yet. But there are a lot of gems out there, so finding a good game depends on your ability to find them.

StriderTuna

Aug 27, 2011, 04:32 AM

NoiseHERO

Aug 27, 2011, 08:59 AM

Serephim

Aug 27, 2011, 11:59 AM

>FPS
>Unique

Well that's funny how most seem to be summed up as brown gritty games with tons of cover, regenerating health, and angry bald men.

Sure jRPGs have taken a pounding in the eyes of the public, but there are still good examples, which are overshadowed by the bad examples (Hi thar, Ideal Factory) wRPGs aren't going to be much better as I'm sure folks will be copying Dragon Age in the wake of things.

The rehash things only works so well due to how most people eat up such things, why else would people keep on buying Modern Warfare 2011, 2012?

Innovation exists on the consoles, but never in the mainstream. You've got to look in the niches.

The particularly irony of the turn of discussion? the 360 had some of the most unique jRPGs while it was otherwise flooded with FPS's and wRPG's (you know before Bioware made them pretty/popular)

Well, there are some good FPS titles as well that dont get much attention. Homeworld was a VERY fun FPS experience, and it was kind of a whim demo download off my PSN.

JRPGs....all my favorite series are gone now. Breath of Fire III and Final Fantasy VII were my favorite RPGs. And Squaresoft...man, Threads of Fate, Brave Fencer Musashi, Bushido Blade, Final Fantasy Tactics, Chrono Trigger.....man, all those great games, but we have nothing to show for it anymore. They've just been slowly trying to turn FF into some stupid movie series. I dont know what made them think anyone wanted a sequel to FFXIII. FFX, yeah, but not XIII. Hopefully it'll be better than XIII, but man i doubt it.

It's like, the less WTFRICH a company is, the better games they make. But people have started spending so much money on shit these days, everyone is too afraid to make any new moves in fear of a flop or failure.

Take us back to the golden age of the Dreamcast, please X_X

Enforcer MKV

Aug 27, 2011, 01:04 PM

Well, there are some good FPS titles as well that dont get much attention. Homeworld was a VERY fun FPS experience, and it was kind of a whim demo download off my PSN.

JRPGs....all my favorite series are gone now. Breath of Fire III and Final Fantasy VII were my favorite RPGs. And Squaresoft...man, Threads of Fate, Brave Fencer Musashi, Bushido Blade, Final Fantasy Tactics, Chrono Trigger.....man, all those great games, but we have nothing to show for it anymore. They've just been slowly trying to turn FF into some stupid movie series. I dont know what made them think anyone wanted a sequel to FFXIII. FFX, yeah, but not XIII. Hopefully it'll be better than XIII, but man i doubt it.

It's like, the less WTFRICH a company is, the better games they make. But people have started spending so much money on shit these days, everyone is too afraid to make any new moves in fear of a flop or failure.

Take us back to the golden age of the Dreamcast, please X_X

That single highlighted section is every problem in a nutshell, excluding Bobby kotick, who's ego does not allow confinement in such a small space.

Seriously, I'm usually not a hater, but Kotick needs to die in a fire. Let the man drown in a tub of his ill-gotten money.

Bushido

Aug 27, 2011, 03:37 PM

They don't give a shit about what you think the latest Mario game hasn't changed the formula, the seasoned audience is not the target; it's for every 5 year old who hasn't discovered the mushroom kingdom yet.

I beg to differ entirely. As much as the anti-Nintendo crowd likes to throw around that kind of trash talk, it's simply not true. Besides being platformers, almost every single Mario game (I'm talking about real Mario games, none of that Party crap) has had major changes to its gameplay formula. Also, the newer they are, the more they tend to be ripe with references to the oldschool games; that isn't for the kids who don't get the references, it's for the older crowd who grew up on the older games. Being kid friendly doesn't take away that those games can be enjoyed by anyone, and hold specific content for seasoned gamers.

Enforcer MKV

Aug 27, 2011, 04:25 PM

I beg to differ entirely. As much as the anti-Nintendo crowd likes to throw around that kind of trash talk, it's simply not true. Besides being platformers, almost every single Mario game (I'm talking about real Mario games, none of that Party crap) has had major changes to its gameplay formula. Also, the newer they are, the more they tend to be ripe with references to the oldschool games; that isn't for the kids who don't get the references, it's for the older crowd who grew up on the older games. Being kid friendly doesn't take away that those games can be enjoyed by anyone, and hold specific content for seasoned gamers.

I tend to agree with you. from what I've seen, it's more like the games are just switching it up, I mean, yeah, sure, it's a platformer, and there are parts that have to be there, but they have a good bit of variety in each new installment. Even their remakes have variety to them.

Of course, there are franchises like Kirby, in a lot of those games, the gameplay is more or less the same, maybe some new powers. but then, they pull something like Kirbies Epic Yarn. And just for the record, I love that little pink puff ball. He's adorable. And awesome.

Bushido

Aug 27, 2011, 04:46 PM

Of course, there are franchises like Kirby, in a lot of those games, the gameplay is more or less the same, maybe some new powers. but then, they pull something like Kirbies Epic Yarn. And just for the record, I love that little pink puff ball. He's adorable. And awesome.

I'm a huge fan of Kirby (the original Dream Land was my first Game Boy game back in the day), and his games tend to go back and forth. About half of them stick more to the Kirby's Adventure formula (fairly simple platformers with powers and whatnot) while the other half can be just about anything (all the way from pinball to angle-controlled mini-putt and from jewel-collecting yarn characters to split personality control). Naturally, all of those are also filled to the brim with cute.

Hatemachine

Aug 27, 2011, 05:30 PM

I for one am actually GLAD that games seem to be slumping more now, it's going to force companies to do thing's they've either A, Never considered, B, to do thing's they HAVE considered but were too scared to implement, and C, will force them to look for outside help to revolutionize the industry. As it is I STILL manage to find titles I know i'll be able to enjoy that's a bit more of the same old song and dance, like METRO 2033 Last light, for all intents people have and will call it a CoD clone, and a grey, brown, cover ladden regenerating health bullet throwing simulator.

SO WHAT! lol the game's predecessor had one of the most immersive and wonderful stories i've ever encountered in gaming, PSO2 looks to be simply expanding on it's series roots and with a little hope updating an already well loved and well defined game series with more modern thing's. Oddly enough I find myself less drawn to games getting massive amounts of hype, and pomp, like the new Warhammer 40k game, looks neat, but just reminds me of Dynasty warriors with guns and less open space, and GUNS, while fun it's not exactly making me froth at the mouth as the games publishers and ad execs are pushing for.

You just gotta define what it is you want your games to do and be, sounds difficult, but truthfully it's easy, look back in your own history and look at the games you FELT something with, link those games over the years and you begin to see what it is you want from them.

I want an enthralling tale that's BEGGING to be told with well defined characters and a simple interface, I shouldn't NEED a freaking tutorial or hand holding to enjoy my game. Followed by games that were MEANT to be GAME'S, little bundles of polygons meant to ensnare you with it's simplicity, vivid colors, and simple storylines, Mario, Sonic, Megaman X and the like are PRIME examples.

I think people are starting to get frustrated with the fact that games are becoming less what we WANT them to be and people are going to be forced to listen when the latest AAA title sinks a once proud Giant, FF XIV ANYONE!? how about Duke Nukem Forever!?

Games will get better when the core Audience is able to speak up with it's wallet and better tell game developers what they are itching for, best way to do that is with your own freaking mind.

Happy gaming all.

Enforcer MKV

Aug 27, 2011, 05:32 PM

Hatemachine, you sir, are amazing. It's nice to find another person who liked Metro. That game was so good, despite it's flaws.

Kion

Aug 27, 2011, 08:50 PM

I beg to differ entirely. As much as the anti-Nintendo crowd likes to throw around that kind of trash talk, it's simply not true. Besides being platformers, almost every single Mario game (I'm talking about real Mario games, none of that Party crap) has had major changes to its gameplay formula. Also, the newer they are, the more they tend to be ripe with references to the oldschool games; that isn't for the kids who don't get the references, it's for the older crowd who grew up on the older games. Being kid friendly doesn't take away that those games can be enjoyed by anyone, and hold specific content for seasoned gamers.

I was mostly alluding to the whole bowser steals peach again. The gameplay is definitely new and innovative, but I know a lot of people who wont play the game anymore because they dont get any enjoyment having to bail peach out every freaking game.

Hatemachine

Aug 27, 2011, 09:00 PM

Aye Metro was a rare gem of a game, and if I could play through Elder scrolls oblivion and Fallout 3 with all it's bugs and glitches, on BOTH 360 and PC, I can endure Metro's occasional and infrequent foibles....whoa THAT'S how you spell foible? NEATO!

And as for the whole bailing peach out thing, it's not the Destination that matters, but the adventure there that counts afterall, well unless your going somewhere REALLY awesome, like an old fashioned nickle Arcade, or to to Las Vegas.

yoshiblue

Aug 27, 2011, 09:01 PM

So when will Luigi get another solo outside of a mansion?

I remember the creator of megaman saying that capcom needs to get with the times.

NoiseHERO

Aug 28, 2011, 12:50 AM

An remake of mario is missing on the Wii-U with Luigi traveling a 3D-HD Italy would be badass.

Hell I'd buy a Wii-U for that.

StriderTuna

Aug 28, 2011, 12:56 AM

I'd say the most harmful thing to the industry is the western market, or to better put it, the causal gaming trend as it influences things in a bad way. Look at all the terrible western-aimed remakes and reboots of things by japanese companies or cases of YET another FPS, Bioware or GTA-style game. Such a trend cannot die soon enough

Zyrusticae

Aug 28, 2011, 01:04 AM

It's not a trend.

It's a consequence that is a combination of massive, MASSIVE development budgets and management that is largely conservative on all fronts. Because the games cost so much to make, developers are too afraid to do anything too risky or else they risk not recouping the development costs. (Of course, this can bite them back in the ass when customers lose interest due to it being more of the same - such as what happened with DDR and Guitar Hero). The amounts of money involved are large enough that CEOs are unwilling to invest in any project that is not backed with large amounts of market research and focus group testing.

One of two things has to happen for this to change: Either the development costs get reduced drastically, or developers who take risks get recompensed in some way if the game fails to draw an adequate customer base. A developer cannot run on charity or good will alone. They have to draw paying customers.

Of course, indie developers don't have this issue. Since their projects are inherently much cheaper to produce, they can get away with selling their games for less or selling much fewer copies. So they can take risks where the bigger developers cannot. However, because their development budgets are so much smaller, they also end up being technically unimpressive. Can't have the best of both worlds!

In an ideal world, developers would have the foresight to actually look ahead and see what players actually want from their games, and thus they would be able to produce a game that is both innovative AND a cash-grabber. Unfortunately, we do not live in that world.

The PSO2 dev team, on the other hand... they're making some very good moves.

NoiseHERO

Aug 28, 2011, 01:09 AM

My sig says I can make an indie game for free.

Kion

Aug 28, 2011, 02:16 AM

I remember the creator of megaman saying that capcom needs to get with the times.

Megaman Legends 3 and Resident Evil: Operation Racoon City are looking pretty freakin' sweet.

BioWarrior

Aug 28, 2011, 02:24 AM

Legends 3 is canceled permanently.

Kion

Aug 28, 2011, 02:55 AM

What!!? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooo!!!! (it's not like i was going to buy 3DS anywas but still...)

NoiseHERO

Aug 28, 2011, 03:00 AM

Megaman is dead in general...

They killed my favorite series, yo.

Bushido

Aug 28, 2011, 03:45 AM

I'm sure some of you are aware that a campaign to revive MML3's development has been taking place for a little while now. Truth be told, Capcom is being... Well... To be entirely honest, I didn't really read PSO-World's rules, so I'm not sure how far I'm allowed to go with expletives. Let's just say that Capcom is making some absolutely horrible and even downright shameful decisions these days, and that Legends 3's cancellation (as well as the circumstances around it) is a pretty good example of that.

I, for one, am very saddened by that. Mega Man has always been one of my favorite franchises (though I don't care much for most recent-ish entries) and the Legends games as well as Misadventures of Tron Bonne are some of the best memories I have of the PS1.

Serephim

Aug 28, 2011, 12:42 PM

MvC3 is a children's game, Megaman is dead, DMC (Devil May Cry reboot) is going to SUCK BALLS, their best RPG IP (Breath of Fire) has been discontinued for years now (and they were all GREAT), Street Fighter 4 AE has shitty balancing..

...did i miss anything? i used to think NOTHING could make capcom waver. it looks like they're just turning into all the other companies with their screwups now....

Luckly, i have Namco and Soul Calibur 5 and Tekken Tag Tournament 2 to look forward to : D

At least Resident Evil 5 was a great game. I was looking forward to a 6, but instead we get operation racoon city..

Kent

Aug 28, 2011, 02:28 PM

What's really interesting is that the increase in monotony and the zerg rushing of clones of Call of Duty that, in the wake of what ended up happening with Tony Hawk and Guitar Hero, big-budget games that rely on brand name alone are getting to be a bit questionable, except for a handful of very stable franchises. The end result, is we've seen a number of professional developers break off and form their own small, independant studios, as well as indies themselves getting a lot more exposure for adhering to what gaming was like in the early 90's and late 80's - people have a unique idea and a small budget, and just go to town on it.

It's almost like we're heading into another video gaming renaissance. Well, that's what I'd like it to be, anyway.

What!!? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooo!!!! (it's not like i was going to buy 3DS anywas but still...)
Megaman Legends 3 was canceled over a month ago. Where have you been?

The "official" excuse (which is entirely plausible, by the way) is that the development of the prototype version (which was to be released on the 3DS' eShop) was not progressing as well as it needed to be, so the game was canceled. When asked why, Capcom proceeded to flip its shit and blame the fans, saying they weren't participating enough for the game's prototype to finish development.

The interesting part, of course, is that this probably happened because Inafune (Megaman series creator - and creator of Dead Rising and Lost Planet) left Capcom and therefore the game had nobody within the company to really champion it - which is something that's basically required in a large company like Capcom. The fact that the 3DS is doing so poorly (pre-price drop, that is - cost being less than assumed value has gotten it quite a few sales since) is likely another large factor into the game being canceled.

It's really interesting though, because Capcom has historically been a company that treats its loyal fans very well - and greenlighting the prototype of a game that fans have been wanting for ten years only to cancel it before even that is released is just a dick move, to many people.

Noel Vermillion

Aug 28, 2011, 03:10 PM

...did i miss anything?

Ace Attorney being ruined by Apollo JustASS and AAI2 not getting an english translation :/

Bushido

Aug 28, 2011, 03:42 PM

Ace Attorney being ruined by Apollo JustASS and AAI2 not getting an english translation :/

That Ace Attorney X Professor Layton crossover is also apparently not getting localized either. Then there's the fact that they stopped supporting MVC3 and announced an Ultimate edition that has to be bought in stores a mere four months after the game's release. Let's not forget the DRM debacle that happened with Resident Evil: The Mercenaries 3D.

Also, it seems like Street Fighter and their other fighting games are the only things they're actually giving a crap about there days. I mean, MVC3 came out recently, Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition was just released a little while ago, now Street Fighter III: Third Strike: Online Edition: Fight for the Future (talk about a mouthful), then TWO crossovers with Tekken, and of course UMVC3 at some point.

Really, there's a lot of reasons to be pissed at Capcom these days, just take your pick.

NoiseHERO

Aug 28, 2011, 03:51 PM

Ace Attorney being ruined by Apollo JustASS and AAI2 not getting an english translation :/

WHOA WHOA WHOOOAAA

Hold on, there was NOTHING wrong with Apollo Justice other than characters changing... And a lot of people disappearing. @_@

And even then the characters were still interesting. Also I like how the Mysteries were all linked together, then related back to the actual main characters.

I loved that game, what the hell, yo. D:

Enforcer MKV

Aug 29, 2011, 05:18 PM

Hell, Capcom can simply go to hell.

No, really. Capcom went and cancelled a game that fans have been wanting for 10 years, only to first say they're releasing an alpha version, basically a paid demo, to "assess fan support", and then, they have the audacity to cancel the project, before even the alpha had been released, and then blame the fans for not participating in their devroom, which many people had not even HEARD of until that very cancellation notice.

Put on top of that, I heard that at a convention (now, this is just hearsay, mind you. Not completely reliable.) there was someone dressed up as tron bonne, and they were at the Capcom booth. And get this? Security made her leave, saying "You can't be here dressed like that."

Put on top of that Capcom is releasing UMvC 3 with new characters and "rebalanced online." They refuse to release the characters as DLC, for the people who bought the original, and it's $40 for the new game.

It's horrible, is what it is. And Capcom can burn for all I care.

*Ahem* Sorry, this is something that has really upset me. Megaman is my favorite VG character. Like. Ever.

Anon_Fire

Aug 29, 2011, 05:33 PM

Sliding off-topic here. Let's get back on track

Anyway, it just goes to show Microsoft that our western FPS games just don't appeal to the JP community. It has nothing to do with failure, but has to do with demographic.

NoiseHERO

Aug 29, 2011, 05:54 PM

Dinosaur

Aug 29, 2011, 06:13 PM

Put on top of that Capcom is releasing UMvC 3 with new characters and "rebalanced online." They refuse to release the characters as DLC, for the people who bought the original, and it's $40 for the new game.

They've always done their fighting games like this. SNES days, there were multiple versions of SFII. Your complaint is a decade late.

Nitro Vordex

Aug 29, 2011, 07:03 PM

More like UMAD 3.

Enforcer MKV

Aug 29, 2011, 07:50 PM

I thought the DLC and extra stages would have cost just as much anyway.

Doesn't matter... Still needs megaman.

Totally agree.

They've always done their fighting games like this. SNES days, there were multiple versions of SFII. Your complaint is a decade late.

Well, a decade ago I didn't play those games. Besides, if it was just this, it would be excusable, but all the strikes piling up against them, just painting a worse light, ya know?

Serephim

Aug 29, 2011, 08:56 PM

capcom literally blaming the fans for MML3 is just untactful.

Honestly, i dont know what they're trying to pull with that shit.

BioWarrior

Aug 29, 2011, 08:58 PM

capcom literally blaming the fans for MML3 is just untactful.

Honestly, i dont know what they're trying to pull with that shit.

It's because when prototype version released on the 3DS fans were SUPPOSED to help shape the game, yet capcom kept delaying it and never released it lol. So fans never had a chance to effect the game.

Bushido

Aug 30, 2011, 03:50 AM

I thought the DLC and extra stages would have cost just as much anyway.

Sure, but that's only relevant if you intended on buying everything in the first place. Personally, I only want two or three of the new characters, so paying up $40 (which would probably be $50 here for absolutely no good reason, based on previous experience) on top of the already overpriced original game ($70 over here) which was way too bare bones in the first place isn't very appealing, to say the very least. Besides, it's the only way to get the balance fixes.

They've always done their fighting games like this. SNES days, there were multiple versions of SFII. Your complaint is a decade late.

Right, but this is 2011. The ability to patch and update games with DLC on consoles has existed for years and should have completely eradicated that kind of issue. It's great that complete editions of games can be bought in stores so that newcomers can immediately get the full experience, but that only really works if you also allow prior owners to update their existing copies for a cheaper price. Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition is a good example of that system being used correctly; Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 isn't.

Dinosaur

Aug 30, 2011, 04:52 AM

Right, but this is 2011. The ability to patch and update games with DLC on consoles has existed for years and should have completely eradicated that kind of issue. It's great that complete editions of games can be bought in stores so that newcomers can immediately get the full experience, but that only really works if you also allow prior owners to update their existing copies for a cheaper price. Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition is a good example of that system being used correctly; Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 isn't.

Considering how much content they are adding(8 characters, 4+ stages, more moves for existing characters, new game mechanics, new HUD and menus), release by DVD is the only option. If it was DLC, it would be an insanely large and inconvenient download.

Bushido

Aug 30, 2011, 05:30 AM

Noel Vermillion

Aug 30, 2011, 05:59 AM

WHOA WHOA WHOOOAAA

Hold on, there was NOTHING wrong with Apollo Justice other than characters changing... And a lot of people disappearing. @_@

And even then the characters were still interesting. Also I like how the Mysteries were all linked together, then related back to the actual main characters.

I loved that game, what the hell, yo. D:

1)Phoenix being OOC for the whole game and unnecessary. AJ ruined his character :/
2)No Edgeworth.
3)No Maya.
4)Trucy Wright trying to be a Maya clone.
5)The Magicians.
6)The majority of the music.
7)Klavier Gavin.
8)Klavier Gavin's theme tune being played over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
9)Annoying characters.

.______.

Bushido

Aug 30, 2011, 06:17 AM

1)Phoenix being OOC for the whole game and unnecessary. AJ ruined his character :/
2)No Edgeworth.
3)No Maya.
4)Trucy Wright trying to be a Maya clone.
5)The Magicians.
6)The majority of the music.
7)Klavier Gavin.
8)Klavier Gavin's theme tune being played over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
9)Annoying characters.

.______.

So... Not being Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney?

Dinosaur

Aug 30, 2011, 06:33 AM

I beg to differ. Mechanics, additional moves and balance fixes are what you should be finding in patches/updates and would take up a negligible amount of space. Characters and stages, that is what requires textures and thus more space, are ideal for DLC. Regardless, large downloads are hardly much of an inconvenient nowadays, when entire retail games are downloadable. Hell, I bet that UMVC3 in its entirety is smaller in size than Dragon Age: Origins, and the latter is downloadable from the PlayStation Store.

It is a different story when it comes to fighting games. They are played competitively in tournaments which require large amounts of consoles. If it UMvC3 were DLC only, then you would have the problem of needing to download this expensive DLC to play a new game. Also, considering the sheer difference of UMvC3 and MvC3; a DLC upgrade would cost $40 anyways. To consumers, $40 for a DVD vs $40 a patch; what sounds better for a consumer?

You must also look at it in the shoes of Capcom. It's way easier to market something actually tangible vs a down-loadable. A new game brings more hype vs a "patch".

Simply put, MvC3 and UMvC3 are very different games. An online "patch" cannot warrant the changes between the two.

Bushido

Aug 30, 2011, 07:14 AM

Again, I disagree. Let's examine this bit by bit.

It is a different story when it comes to fighting games. They are played competitively in tournaments which require large amounts of consoles. If it UMvC3 were DLC only, then you would have the problem of needing to download this expensive DLC to play a new game.

Tournaments should use full copies as much as possible, since it would indeed make things easier to manage. However, fighting games just like any other games are primarily sold to standard customers; that is to say that copies sold to people like you and I far outweigh copies used for tournaments. As such, we average consumers should be the priority and DLC options should be available as such.

Also, considering the sheer difference of UMvC3 and MvC3; a DLC upgrade would cost $40 anyways. To consumers, $40 for a DVD vs $40 a patch; what sounds better for a consumer?

$40 for that DLC would be overpriced, though I am aware that Capcom is already in the habit of overpricing its DLC for other games. Again though, that is assuming you intended on acquiring everything this update includes, which most people aren't necessarily interested in. I for one am interested in Phoenix Wright, Vergil and Strider Hiryu, nothing more; if proper DLC options and pricing were in place, I would have the ability to download those for a cheap price or to download the whole package for less than the cost of the retail game.

You must also look at it in the shoes of Capcom. It's way easier to market something actually tangible vs a down-loadable. A new game brings more hype vs a "patch".

Correction: It's way more profitable to market an update as a retail release with no alternate options for previous consumers. Marketing DLC nowadays isn't an issue at all when you have unified services like Xbox Live and PlayStation Network, especially for popular games and even more so for those where DLC is expected, like fighting games. Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that...

Simply put, MvC3 and UMvC3 are very different games. An online "patch" cannot warrant the changes between the two.

UMvC3 is not a new game, let alone a "very different" one. It is at best an overpriced update (when taking into account that fans have already paid for the original) and at worst the finished product as opposed to the quasi-prototype that we bought mere months ago. Characters, maps, weapons, modes and expansions can be downloaded for many games, which themselves can be downloaded. The additional content found in UMvC3 is no different and would be no difficulty to make available as DLC, especially considering the fact that the original game was built with the ability to be updated. Once more, pre-patched physical copies are great, but being able to update the original game should be an option.

Dinosaur

Aug 30, 2011, 07:43 AM

If it was more profitable to release it as DLC, don't you think they would have done so? Capcom is one of the top [game] companies in the world and I'm sure they'd know how to make more money.

For the record, Capcom doesn't care about what the consumer wants or how they want it. They said this themselves. This is the mindset of many companies. They care about what's going to make them the most money.

Also, I'm 100% sure you don't know anything about MvC3 and UMvC3. You're talking to a tournament level player who knows people in the industry and who work for Capcom itself. I know what I'm talking about. If you think you as a consumer should be a "priority", then you're wrong. Your money is a "priority" to Capcom, not what you want.

Bushido

Aug 30, 2011, 08:03 AM

If it was more profitable to release it as DLC, don't you think they would have done so? Capcom is one of the top [game] companies in the world and I'm sure they'd know how to make more money.

Indeed, and that is why I never said such a thing.

For the record, Capcom doesn't care about what the consumer wants or how they want it. They said this themselves. This is the mindset of many companies. They care about what's going to make them the most money.

Very true, unfortunately enough.

Also, I'm 100% sure you don't know anything about MvC3 and UMvC3. You're talking to a tournament level player who knows people in the industry and who work for Capcom itself. I know what I'm talking about. If you think you as a consumer should be a "priority", then you're wrong. Your money is a "priority" to Capcom, not what you want.

As a matter of fact, you are entirely wrong. I own MvC3 and am certainly aware of UMvC3; as it turns out, our disagreement doesn't change that fact, regardless of what you'd like to think. I hardly think that your being a "tournament level player" makes you somehow more knowledgeable on the subject; quite the contrary, it makes you biased in that it someone in your position would naturally jump at the chance of owning this game no matter how it's released. As for knowing what I'm talking about, I assure you that I do. You see, I also know people in the industry, my partner is a game programmer and artist, and lastly I myself am in the industry as a news writer, tester and reviewer (not the YouTube kind, I assure you). Finally, you appear to have forgotten a small detail regarding priority: Money is not alive and cannot be appealed to; consumers are though, and are the ones holding money. Consumers are thus Capcom's priority in that they need to provide just enough to make them spend said money, yet apparently not enough to completely satisfy them. The UMvC3 debacle can be summed up as an issue with ethics in that sense.

Kent

Aug 30, 2011, 10:54 AM

Considering how much content they are adding(8 characters, 4+ stages, more moves for existing characters, new game mechanics, new HUD and menus), release by DVD is the only option. If it was DLC, it would be an insanely large and inconvenient download.
With the exception of possibly new game mechanics (what mechanics are they adding, anyway?), this is incorrect on a mathematical level. DLC packs for games on modern consoles are regularly between one and two gigabytes in size, and I can guarantee you that the added characters, stages, moves, music, etc. could not add up to that much unless it were some absurd amount in the first place.

Consider the amount of RAM a character can potentially take up: 512MB (unified, as on the 360, or split between graphics/system, as on the PS3) in a given battle has to hold all of the character data, sounds, relevant textures, animation data, etc.... For six characters at a time. If it didn't, there would be loading pauses when characters switch in and out (as opposed to the simple delay that's imposed by the game's mechanics). On top of this, it also has to hold all of the UI information (rather small) and all of the data for the stage and music tracks. Developers have memory budgets for these kinds of reasons - to make sure that everything only takes up its fair share of memory at a given time, so everything fits in nicely.

Unless they were wasting space doing something incredibly moronic (like using FMVs anywhere outside of the intro and credits) or having uncompressed audio (which is just silly), there's no reason they'd go over 2GB for a downloadable file size. Especially when you consider that the base game itself is only 2.9GB when installed onto a 360's hard drive.

So unless they were adding an entire two thirds as much data as the game already has in it... There would be no problem at all with releasing a downloadable expansion instead of forcing an on-disc release.

It's much more likely that they had planned the disc release from the beginning (despite having said that something like a "Super" version of the game would never happen, and promising to support the game through DLC), or soon after shipping decided that they wanted to change features around that they hadn't made available for changing via a patch in the first place.

Dinosaur

Aug 30, 2011, 05:06 PM

None of you seem to understand that the difference between the two games is HUGE. It's just not something that can be DLC content for the vanilla version. Many characters are getting changes and brand new moves. There are too many new game mechanics(Air X-factor, Health + damage + frame data changes, DHC glitch removed[a huge part of the MvC3 metagame], new status changes[there are more status effects in this game than the whole PS series has]) in UMvC3 that a downloadable patch will not do. Making it DLC would make Capcom's job retardedly hard on trying to make a patch that alters the core code of the previous version.

It is simply not an add-on and nor is it a "super" version of the game. It is a rewrite of the vanilla code with extensive additions.

Bushido

Aug 30, 2011, 05:25 PM

No, actually. All of those aren't nearly as large nor as much trouble as you seem to think. They may make a world of difference in gameplay, but about half of those would necessitate nothing more than a patch while the other half could be DLC. Based on the things that you named, most of those are simple value changes while the rest are minimal additions to code; hardly a "complete rewrite". Your being a fan, even a "tournament level" one, doesn't change how games work nor what can or can't be made into DLC. There's no need to be so defensive, especially when people who clearly know more than you do can tell you how none of that makes any sense. If you decide to buy their products anyway, that's perfectly fine, but we're just saying that none of those are good excuses as to why Capcom couldn't do the sensible thing.

Anon_Fire

Aug 30, 2011, 05:26 PM

Let's get back on track, people.

Enforcer MKV

Aug 30, 2011, 07:28 PM

Let's get back on track, people.

What was the original topic...I forget.

Either way, this seems like it's quickly landslided into "No, you're wrong" territory, so....uh, I think I'm out.

Anon_Fire

Aug 30, 2011, 07:44 PM

What was the original topic...I forget.

Either way, this seems like it's quickly landslided into "No, you're wrong" territory, so....uh, I think I'm out.

Well since the 360 is starting to phase out in Japan, it looks as though an XBOX 360 port of PSO2 is now unlikely to happen.

Enforcer MKV

Aug 30, 2011, 07:57 PM

Well since the 360 is starting to phase out in Japan, it looks as though an XBOX 360 port of PSO2 is now unlikely to happen.

Oh, well, duh. Xbox never did well over there. I'm glad I got to play PSU (first one, friend introduced me.) and that's why I'm such a big fan now.

Besides, I thought Sakai said it was gonna be on only PC.

Anon_Fire

Aug 30, 2011, 08:00 PM

Oh, well, duh. Xbox never did well over there. I'm glad I got to play PSU (first one, friend introduced me.) and that's why I'm such a big fan now.

Besides, I thought Sakai said it was gonna be on only PC.

He did, but tell that to those who want it on 360.

Enforcer MKV

Aug 30, 2011, 08:06 PM

He did, but tell that to those who want it on 360.

Eh, it's just something we'll have to accept.

I wanted it on 360, but hey, after PSU flopped (sorta - even though it was mostly Sega's fault.), who can blame them for going the PC route.

I mean, I know that traditionally PSO has been a console MMO. But because of Microsoft's restrictive behavior, and Sega's poor handling of the western version, no wonder they're switching to PC only.

Serephim

Aug 31, 2011, 10:48 AM

Keilyn

Aug 31, 2011, 11:51 AM

They probably just didn't want anymore PS2/PC/360 issues like they have now (which were all TOTALLY their faults, btw)

I can't see them having issues with PSN like they have with XBL, and the PS3 is more cut-out for MMOs since it's a stronger system. But i guess in the end PC was the safest route.

Thing about working with Consoles is that PCs can be upgraded. Consoles retain the same technology for many years. MMOs are written for a long-term life cycle. A 5 - 10 year time-table.

After an American Judge gave SONY CORPORATION the right to have people who visited certain web sites and posted PS3 videos or hacked their own PS3s...the power to have them arrested...many thought twice about owning a PS3.

Before you all reply and say that I am FULL OF SHIT, here is the link to the ACTUAL LEGAL DOCUMENT.

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2011/03/speroruling.pdf

Its far more dangerous to your civil liberties to even MENTION "playstation 3" in a conversation or OWN a playstation 3, than to not own one.

Akaimizu

Aug 31, 2011, 11:57 AM

The technology isn't the problem. They have full fledged MMOs on an iPad. But the other legal means and stuff does pose a problem for PSN. They may turn around this idea, at least for the Vita, as more and more MMOs land on stuff of what they think is competition.

Serephim

Aug 31, 2011, 01:21 PM

After an American Judge gave SONY CORPORATION the right to have people who visited certain web sites and posted PS3 videos or hacked their own PS3s...the power to have them arrested...many thought twice about owning a PS3.

They got the power to have the person who released the information arrested, and with good reason. That would be Geohotz. Sony got youtube to take down the websites that informed people of how to hack. It would be similar to the US government shutting down a website that gave detailed information on how to make IEDs.

Geohotz and his bullshit justification for hacking the PS3 and Iphone are astounding, really. He knows EXACTLY what he was doing, and hiding behind that "for the people" persona is just his way of getting sheep to follow him and save his own ass. It's true that Homebrew is very good thing when it isn't illegal, but lets be 100% real here -- who on earth cared when Other OS got removed? Who USED THE FEATURE? Lets be honest, the biggest perk for the PS3 Jailbreak was Piracy, and anyone who disagrees is either the 5% of people who are legit with their homebrew, or they're just lying out their traps to support their argument. Just like the people who argue PC is superior to consoles....there is not a single thing you can do with your PS3 that you couldn't do with your PC with the same amount of effort.

I wouldn't be surprised if i were you about Sony's position on the matter -- people like Geohotz are one of the LARGEST REASONS why the PSP is failing in the united states -- it's hacked to shit, it's almost a trivial matter to get CFW and a Memory Card chocked full of ISOs of the latest PSP games. Now you know someone to blame for Infinity not reaching the states. Seriously, i can see his position, but his cockyness and then him trying to hide behind the notion that he's trying to work "for the better of the people" is just absolute garbage. The only thing people like Geohotz is good for is eventually slapping more serious laws on things like videogame consoles, and eventually the internet. I was praying they put him in jail.

Just look at this recent crap with Anonymous and Lulzsec (which is pretty much fucked at this point). They hack websites, bring innocent companies down, piss off tons of gamers and release hundreds of thousands of innocent user credentials....and then claim they're doing it for the "freedom of the internet?" Whatever, they're nothing but criminals hiding behind the "safety" of the internet, recruiting young idiots to follow them, promising that they'll be working against corrupt goverments, but ultimately using them as scapegoats when they fuck something up.

(Which they ultimately will. Apparently.)

Edit:

Here you go.

http://the-duck-pond-blog.blogspot.com/2011/08/lulzsec-lie.html

This is all i have to say about people like Geo and the people who hide behind his same "ideals". If that doesn't make you sick to your stomach one way or another, then you're probably just as screwy as the crazy geeks behind the "lulz". People who are truely trying to help would never do something so fucked up, or try to screw with people who have nothing to do with your cause just for geek publicity!

Akaimizu

Aug 31, 2011, 01:52 PM

You do realize that under no conditions did even Anonymous take credit for anything that gets into User's Personal Information Credentials. They flat out denied it. So I hardly think there's any proof of such conduct at all. Just some individual's uneducated opinions, on the matter, that some people just take for fact.

And apparently a lot of folks used Other OS. It may not have been *the mainstream public*, but who else would use it? Still, I think the biggest mistake for Sony was opening that can of worms in the first place. If they're going to use Other OS as a selling point, for PS3, make a commitment to it instead of making it a *now you have it, now you don't* thing like they did with PS2 backwards compatibility. Though, at least with PS2 BC, if you have the right models, you never have that taken away from you.

My issues with Sony, and much of their constant updates, was for the regular user, they also constantly seemed to take away features more than add them. Where with Xbox Live, an update comes you ask "Oooh. What feature is added?" With PSN, it was more like, "Ok. What are they taking away, this time? Is there anything to be added?" While I can't comment on PS3 as I didn't get into that until the slimline model (which was already slimmer on features), the PSN hacks for PSP had a good number of reasons *outside piracy* for wanting homebrew. A lot of that stuff actually improved the overall usability of the system. Stuff for which, if Sony is going to try to eliminate the hacks, I wish they took good ideas from them and integrated them into the Op system. Lots of good features which were very possible with an Official Sony OS release, but they never took them on.

Even as protective as Apple is, they at least saw that and quite a few (jailbroken) OS upgrade features (actual good ideas) became redesigned as proper OS functions in a later update.

Serephim

Aug 31, 2011, 01:54 PM

Lulzsec = Anon. I didn't pay too much attention to anon before this though, but i know they're derivatives.

It does not matter to me though because they're no different.

I think the biggest problem with the OtherOS removal is that it happened. If someone posted that they used it, i would flat out not believe you. It was costing Sony money to keep it active, so they cut it like they did the PS2 BC. Except it wasn't nearly as seriously as PS2 BC because...nobody cared.

It's like if you woke up one morning, and a guy stood up next to you saying he used a futuristic device to remove your appendix from your body. The fact that it got removed probably would bother you to no end....but other than that, it's not like you'll ever miss it because it did not do anythingggg

Bushido

Sep 1, 2011, 12:25 AM

I think the biggest problem with the OtherOS removal is that it happened. If someone posted that they used it, i would flat out not believe you. It was costing Sony money to keep it active, so they cut it like they did the PS2 BC. Except it wasn't nearly as seriously as PS2 BC because...nobody cared.

It's like if you woke up one morning, and a guy stood up next to you saying he used a futuristic device to remove your appendix from your body. The fact that it got removed probably would bother you to no end....but other than that, it's not like you'll ever miss it because it did not do anythingggg

Wow. That's a lotta (incorrect) assumptions. I for one was pretty damn pissed when it happened. I mean, it was useful if you didn't have a very good PC. And it was an advertised feature that users paid for as part of buying a console. And it was a freaking feature removal. But hey, that's okay, right? I mean, if you didn't care, then surely no one else did! Seriously, what's with the homebrew bashing and Sony defending? What GeoHotz did was illegal at worst and legally questionable at best, but there's no denying that what Sony did was outright wrong.

Serephim

Sep 1, 2011, 01:09 AM

It's not Sony defending, it's making people realize how big of a hypocrite they are concerning this subject. If you want to use Other OS, dont download the update. If thats the way you see it, then getting PS3 updates is also a feature that you do not require. See, people always try to find little cheap ways to justify their wrongs. There was never a written agreement that stated you couldn't hack the PS3, but there also wasn't an agreement that said Sony couldn't deny you updates for tampering with the hardware. If ANY of you were CEO of Sony, you would do the SAME THING. Why? Because piracy one of the straightest lines to your asshole, thats why. It was a screwed up move, but i seriously don't see how anyone with a brain could SUPPORT Geohotz for what he was trying to do. Im not surprised Sony pulled out the ion cannons to avoid the PS3 becoming another PSP, which is so rife with piracy im surprised they're even still selling it over here.

Look at it this way -- if they did indeed remove it for Security reasons it's HIS FAULT THE FEATURE IS GONE. You're blaming sony, but they're doing more than saving their own asses -- You do realize that the game developers themselves aren't getting paid for games that are pirated, right? That's a great way to secure a good sequel! Whatever, we can go on and on about this. I think George Hotz is a brilliant guy, a freaking genius. But however you spin it, if it were not for people who screw around with crap they aren't supposed to, we would have much better things. Like Other OS. Haha.

BTW playing around on Wikipedia, apparently GeohotZ is working for Facebook now (which is not surprising in the slightest, those people are too smart to risk being responsible for any hacking). If he's going to be a genius, then he might as well do it for stuff like that.

Bushido

Sep 1, 2011, 01:46 AM

No no no... See, the problem here is that, once again, it's a feature that we technically paid for and that was advertised and thus a selling point. Sony should have worked to patch what vulnerabilities they could, not entirely cut the whole feature. Would you want your arm amputated because you were cut and there's a risk of infection? Of course not, any doctor doing that would be a lunatic. Again, what GeoHotz was doing clearly was a danger to Sony's business, but it's not the users' fault nor are they the ones that should pay for it. Every system can be hacked, and it can be particularly problematic when it comes to gaming consoles, but that was not the right solution at all.

Serephim

Sep 1, 2011, 02:13 AM

Would you want your arm amputated because you were cut and there's a risk of infection? Of course not, any doctor doing that would be a lunatic.

I understand everything you're saying, but i think it's absolutely hilarious you would use that as a reference....because it's exactly what happened. In terms of the PS3 ending up like the Wii in terms of piracy....OtherOS might as well have been gangrene, which is why it was removed. The exploit was possible because of a small hole. It could have been patched....maybe, but i really have no clue. Regardless, it was more of a terrible gash in an african river -- the damage was inevitable.

Anyway...you may not WANT a badly infected limb to be removed, but it's usually either that or certain death. I dont think certain death was spelled out for Sony, but it obviously was enough to become a permanent lefty.

But like i said it might as well have been an infected appendix because not too many people care, at all. The internet of course is going to rage on about it, but i haven't met a single person yet who honestly used OtherOS, or even knew how to. And i know plenty of people with Fat PS3s.

Akaimizu

Sep 1, 2011, 11:35 AM

Thing is. If you don't download the update, you'll be able to use OtherOS, but you wont be able to use any other online service on the PS3. Not downloading the update isn't a choice. You have to give up just about everything else that makes a PS3 to run it and constantly ignore (you need this update) messages.

Other OS is used a lot, just because you don't know anybody that uses it, doesn't mean a good number of people didn't. It's nothing but the "Not from where I'm sitting" argument. It's like those with PCs with dual boot systems to use stuff like ubuntu Linux or something. There's plenty of chances, people here would not know anybody that uses such a thing; but the real truth is that there's a good number of people who did use that feature. It was just more prominent with certain circles. The Linux fans are many, whether you know them or not. And they will jump on anything with an advertised feature such as that. It also means, the moment it runs on that system, you can tweak to PS3 hardware updating the librarys to call the hardware better than the generics. (Something a number of Linux eggheads love to do. It's like Poking and Peeking a C64 all over again.)

If you want to use the "nobody uses it" argument. You could probably say the same thing about the xbox 360 while living in Japan. The fact that in reality it is a top-selling console isn't that visible to you.

Of course, Linus mean you also immediately have the large library of homebrew applications as well. I'll admit. While I'm not a user, I know about it and have messed with Linux installations before. A generaly free open-source op system with an instant cool library for any hardware it is on, is a pretty cool prospect.

Canard de Bain

Sep 1, 2011, 11:56 AM

Why is this thread in the PSO2 section? :-?

amtalx

Sep 1, 2011, 11:56 AM

I understand everything you're saying, but i think it's absolutely hilarious you would use that as a reference....because it's exactly what happened. In terms of the PS3 ending up like the Wii in terms of piracy....OtherOS might as well have been gangrene, which is why it was removed. The exploit was possible because of a small hole. It could have been patched....maybe, but i really have no clue. Regardless, it was more of a terrible gash in an african river -- the damage was inevitable.

Anyway...you may not WANT a badly infected limb to be removed, but it's usually either that or certain death. I dont think certain death was spelled out for Sony, but it obviously was enough to become a permanent lefty.

But like i said it might as well have been an infected appendix because not too many people care, at all. The internet of course is going to rage on about it, but i haven't met a single person yet who honestly used OtherOS, or even knew how to. And i know plenty of people with Fat PS3s.

Your ignorance on this issue is so staggering, I'm not even sure where to start...

First, the OtherOS hack didn't have anything to do with piracy, nor was it capable of doing so. The OtherOS hack allowed OtherOS installations full access to the hardware, where as previously they only had access to a limited amount of RAM and no graphics acceleration whatsoever. Even with the hardware fully unlocked, OtherOS runs on a different hardware level than the games bootloader. No amount of bit juggling would get a PS3 game to boot via OtherOS. Ever.

Sony wanted to stem the tide of hacking, so when the Slim was released, they claimed the new hardware would make it impossible to support OtherOS. For obvious reasons, this pissed off a lot of hackers. The last thing you want is a bunch of angry people that are smarter than you, and willing to tread into legal gray areas. When Sony tried to tell us that the Slim wasn't capable of OtherOS, hackers called bullshit and set to work to see if Sony was actually telling the truth. Turns out Sony lied. Some really brilliant hackers were able to discover the certificate key through a mind numbing blunder on Sony's part. Sony was using the number 1 in a place that was supposed to have a randomly generated value (if your Calculus is strong, I think CCC still hosts the conference reveal). They used the certificate key to sign their own OtherOS package and prove Sony was lying by deploying it on the Slim. Even at this point, piracy still wasn't possible because they only had an L1 certificate and L2 is needed for the games bootloader.

Fast forward a little bit and geohot used the research Fail0verflow started to find the root key. That is the first point where piracy was actually possible (besides the usbkey stuff, which was incredibly limited to begin with), but there's a hell of a lot of work between having root key and working booloader. It's about as far apart as having a pile of wood with some nails, and having a fully functioning house. I also find it funny that people blame geohot for piracy. He released a CFW for PS3, but he rewrote it without full L2 support specifically so that piracy wasn't possible with his CFW. He was one of the few that wanted to open that platform while still attempting to protect IP rights. However, since geohot is the most public figure, Sony attacked him. There are several FAR more appropriate targets that actually made piracy possible through CFW with full L2 support, but they aren't as high profile, and suing them wouldn't have sent as strong a message.

I always find it amusing when people that know fuckall about hacking try to get political about it. You should at least know the sequence of events before breaking out the soap box.

Keilyn

Sep 1, 2011, 12:26 PM

They got the power to have the person who released the information arrested, and with good reason. That would be Geohotz. Sony got youtube to take down the websites that informed people of how to hack. It would be similar to the US government shutting down a website that gave detailed information on how to make IEDs.

Geohotz and his bullshit justification for hacking the PS3 and Iphone are astounding, really. He knows EXACTLY what he was doing, and hiding behind that "for the people" persona is just his way of getting sheep to follow him and save his own ass. It's true that Homebrew is very good thing when it isn't illegal, but lets be 100% real here -- who on earth cared when Other OS got removed? Who USED THE FEATURE? Lets be honest, the biggest perk for the PS3 Jailbreak was Piracy, and anyone who disagrees is either the 5% of people who are legit with their homebrew, or they're just lying out their traps to support their argument. Just like the people who argue PC is superior to consoles....there is not a single thing you can do with your PS3 that you couldn't do with your PC with the same amount of effort.

I wouldn't be surprised if i were you about Sony's position on the matter -- people like Geohotz are one of the LARGEST REASONS why the PSP is failing in the united states -- it's hacked to shit, it's almost a trivial matter to get CFW and a Memory Card chocked full of ISOs of the latest PSP games. Now you know someone to blame for Infinity not reaching the states. Seriously, i can see his position, but his cockyness and then him trying to hide behind the notion that he's trying to work "for the better of the people" is just absolute garbage. The only thing people like Geohotz is good for is eventually slapping more serious laws on things like videogame consoles, and eventually the internet. I was praying they put him in jail.

Just look at this recent crap with Anonymous and Lulzsec (which is pretty much fucked at this point). They hack websites, bring innocent companies down, piss off tons of gamers and release hundreds of thousands of innocent user credentials....and then claim they're doing it for the "freedom of the internet?" Whatever, they're nothing but criminals hiding behind the "safety" of the internet, recruiting young idiots to follow them, promising that they'll be working against corrupt goverments, but ultimately using them as scapegoats when they fuck something up.

(Which they ultimately will. Apparently.)

Edit:

Here you go.

http://the-duck-pond-blog.blogspot.com/2011/08/lulzsec-lie.html

This is all i have to say about people like Geo and the people who hide behind his same "ideals". If that doesn't make you sick to your stomach one way or another, then you're probably just as screwy as the crazy geeks behind the "lulz". People who are truely trying to help would never do something so fucked up, or try to screw with people who have nothing to do with your cause just for geek publicity!

Your information is incorrect.

Have you seen the "arrest document" on the number of arrests on file? It is the second time in American History where a mass amount of people have been arrested for receiving information or having any affiliation with an idea....and the first that its been done because a foreign power asked to do it.

The first time in American History? Let me give you a nice clue

"Have you or anyone you've known ever been affiliated or in communication with a member of the communist party?"

Lulsec came afterwards and I consider them to be defending the public opinion of all the outrage that Sony, SEGA and many other companies have generated Revenge is one of the most natural things ever.....and I would believe in the rule of law if it wasn't created by the top 1% and enforced upon those who are targeted.

I support what they did....In the millions that those companies siphoned from people, those companies spent millions in recovering from all the damages....and when Judges side with foreign powers which endanger many others who aren't even involved.....

I mean shit...all I have to do is go to a site, download a file and all of a sudden I can be arrested by a foreign power, when the law clearly states that I have the right to download any file existing on the internet from any source, but I do not have the right to distribute the same file if its copyright protected.

I don't see anyone arresting anyone from Canada, China, Netherlands or Romania who pirate everything on sight, but some flimsy Japanese Corporation gets to a judge and all of a sudden our constitutional rights and even national and state law gets thrown out the window.

People like you who absorb everything and speak without knowledge acting like you are doing a service to others sicken me. I am happy Lulsec taught these companies a lesson. Yeah companies can have money, power and laws to abuse. But hey, lulsec and others have "MIGHT MAKES RIGHT" and "Knowledge is power" and all of these Master Degree and Doctorate Degree computer scientists working for these top corporations could do absolutely NOTHING against lulsec.

Thank the Gods my own education is not the same rotten garbage most pay for...^_^