New Concept Art: RAmar and RAcaseal

[NoGoBoard]

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/296014_203164503081561_184356218295723_544620_7740 476_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/321409_203164929748185_184356218295723_544621_5663 160_n.jpg

In before dem lips.

[SELENNA]

RAcaseal is nice, RAmar on the other hand....:D

[Zyrusticae]

I do like the fact that they used a big, burly black guy as the base model for the RAmar.

How often do you see that in Japanese games, eh?

[NoGoBoard]

I do like the fact that they used a big, burly black guy as the base model for the RAmar.

How often do you see that in Japanese games, eh?

The RAmar actually kinda reminds me of Anthony from Metroid: Other M.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSD63jKSugGW2lfjMkdml6KIxWAjCZGt gKBFM5mfhEj0MJp6eP5

[KodiaX987]

Why is the RAmar being played by Othello?

[adam-james]

Very cool! I can't wait to play around with these on launch day and then ultimately still choose RAcast :D

[HeartBreak301]

Huh... I didn't know Jax was in PSO2.

[ShinMaruku]

Gonna name my Ramar LL Cool J

[Jinketsu]

I was more thinking Barrett, since he's black and focuses on gun power.

[BioWarrior]

The RAmar actually kinda reminds me of Anthony from Metroid: Other M.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSD63jKSugGW2lfjMkdml6KIxWAjCZGt gKBFM5mfhEj0MJp6eP5

He was pretty much the only good thing to come from other m.

Was kinda hoping for some RAnewearl artwork.... Oh well.

[Mag-X]

Was kinda hoping for some RAnewearl artwork.... Oh well.
This is what I really want to see as well. I doubt we'll get to see it until we get our hands on the game. I haven't even see her default in the videos of people playing with the character creator. They just go back and forth between HUnewearl and FOnewearl. :(

[Dabian]

Caseal + nurse/maid/police/train attendant/japanese high school/marching band outfit. Do eet Sakai. Do eet. :p

[Aumi]

As a RAcaseal fanboy, I approve of this artwork! The RAmar looks kinda cool as well. A little too buff if you ask me. But you don't see this kind of character in Japanese games often, so that's pretty neat.

[•Col•]

It really does look like we're only going to be able to change the 2ndary color of our outfits.

[Worship]

RAcaseal looks awesome, hoping male casts can get similar humanoid parts like hers.

[Palle]

It really does look like we're only going to be able to change the 2ndary color of our outfits.
Well, at least in the case of the RAmar, the blue portion of the uniform appears to be the secondary color. Can't be sure, but I don't remember that color changing in the director's demonstration.

If you're lucky, the option is still on the drawing board for beta, perhaps.

;-)

[chibiLegolas]

I must be the only one who doesn't think highly on the RAcaseal artwork. And I love RAcaseals.
This time around, she doesn't look either sexy nor cute compared to RAcaseal defaults from PSO, PSZ, or PSU.
I can't put my finger on it. But maybe it's all the wrong curves (her body AND accessories) she's got that makes everything look too oval/egg like?
Well, at least I know my caseal would be customizable. But I was honestly hoping for more from the RAcaseal since they're more or less the iconic/fan favorite of the PSO classes. (if you judge it by the merchandise Sega promotes of PSO & fan works).

But looking at that default as it is now, I can't see her on the cover of anything to promote the awesomness that is PSO2. Maybe HUnewearls will be the new fan favorite this time around.

[Sayara]

Racaeseal never changed in her design what so ever, its boring now ;s

[Randomness]

That RAmar is a nice improvement to the original PSO design, imo.

[Serephim]

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1444&stc=1&d=1314984278

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4475/fuyeah.jpg

[landman]

http://burningranger.sega.jp/picture/chr1107/big.jpg

F* Yeah!

[Serephim]

Ramar confirmed to be the awesomest character in the game

Ramar and Fonewm are my insta favorites

[•Col•]

Well, at least in the case of the RAmar, the blue portion of the uniform appears to be the secondary color. Can't be sure, but I don't remember that color changing in the director's demonstration.

Nope. Just his jacket-thing color is changeable. Not the blue suit.

[Zorafim]

RAcaseal is so... Minimalistic. Not much flash, everything looks fairly practical... I love it! Maybe I'll abandon newman yet again for a caseal body case if these styles are what I have to look forward to.
As for the style being "boring", I think that's the point. RAcaseals represent traditional beauty, as opposed to other females which might represent the style of the time (in-universe time, and barring FOmarls). RAcaseals are often servants to people rich enough to afford one, and are modeled to compliment the style of her workplace. This is contrasted to, say, HUnewearl, who wears what's hip at the time.
Oh god, I'm not starting another PSOW argument, am I? I need to be more careful about these things...

RAmar is, well, I love that this option is in the game. It's not something I would wear on any of my characters, but I'd love to see characters like this running around. Plus, after PSU, it's kinda nice to think that there are going to be some manly roughians running around. Not to mention, it reminds me of the Odin archetype from the original games (most specifically Rudo), and I've vocalized far too many times how much I like seeing the style of the original series in the newer games.

[Hrith]

Nice arts.

The RAcaseal does look cool in the art, now if only characters made of flesh would look different from her in-game...

[chaos-shadow]

I must be the only one who doesn't think highly on the RAcaseal artwork. And I love RAcaseals.

I agree with you - compared to everyone else she looks rather plain. I think it's the fact I don't like her hair and face. Her hair is too... block-y? That style is just not very cute. And her face is kind of 1 dimensional. Her eyes are plain and glassy, but I guess that adds to the caseal part...

Her outfit is also very plain compared to everyone else. I think it's because it all just blends together.

[landman]

What I see about the RAcaseal is that she looks very similar to the original (not Eleanor but some of the colour swaps), so there is few novelty in it.

[Serephim]

Im so happy Racaseal (as well as Ramar and Ramarl) are not "exciting".

I mean, what exactly were you guys looking for? More tit-antennas and random floating hunks of metal like on PSP2? Im glad they're not going too far overboard with this stuff. Casts on PSP2 looked ridiculous to me.

And dont forget, we'll probably be able to add to the model with units and frames and whatever.

[Hrith]

Yes, the minimalist look of PSO2 is much better than what they had done to character design for the PSP titles.

This RAcaseal looks a lot like the original one from PSO, which is a good thing, in my opinion.

I am really liking the heavy build of the RAmar, it makes the armour look much better than it did on characters of average builds such as the Bernie we saw in promotional pictures.

[Dabian]

Let's have a bit more faith in the character creation system. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to satisfy your KOS-MOS/Chachamaru/Fireball/Fei-Yen desires.

I'm not that sure about the Decepticon who almost-raped-sam though :p

[Enforcer MKV]

Let's have a bit more faith in the character creation system. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to satisfy your KOS-MOS/Chachamaru/Fireball/Fei-Yen desires.

I'm not that sure about the Decepticon who almost-raped-sam though :p

lol.

Oh another note, this is what I think of Racaseal:

[SPOILER-BOX]<3[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Ark22]

So when did Barrets great great great great great Grandson join?

[Enforcer MKV]

So when did Barrets great great great great great Grandson join?

I'm guessing sometime around the Media Brief?

[AzureBlaze]

I think 'all white' was the wrong move to model RAcaseal in.
If you hunt for them, there are a few screenshots where someone has chosen nice, fun colors for her, and she seems much more detailed/interesting to look at. I know they didn't want to do pink (Even though they're cloning EVERYone else from NPC list on PSO...RAmar is even Bernie's colors) but throwing out a dark green or some purple wouldn't of been a bad thing, to draw attention to her details.

There also appear to be some (well caseal at least) 'skin' colors you can choose as well, saw one that was completely tan & brown which was quite different & interesting.

RAmar: don't like how the top thing in front armor makes him look a bit too rectangular/almost 'fat' even though he's not. Reminds me a little of that one CAST torso on PSU where it had a built in wierd 'big belly' extension and it looked absurd.

For some (RAcaseal, at least screens) you can use this
http://www.4gamer.net/games/120/G012075/20110822048/

just push one of the pictures & a thumbnail scroller will appear at the top for you to press through. There's 88, so some are sort of buried.

I completely agree with the 'no more psu wacky widget decorated cast' opinions. In a real battle all those goofy fins and enormous skirts would just break off.

[Enforcer MKV]

I think 'all white' was the wrong move to model RAcaseal in.
If you hunt for them, there are a few screenshots where someone has chosen nice, fun colors for her, and she seems much more detailed/interesting to look at. I know they didn't want to do pink (Even though they're cloning EVERYone else from NPC list on PSO...RAmar is even Bernie's colors) but throwing out a dark green or some purple wouldn't of been a bad thing, to draw attention to her details.

There also appear to be some (well caseal at least) 'skin' colors you can choose as well, saw one that was completely tan & brown which was quite different & interesting.

RAmar: don't like how the top thing in front armor makes him look a bit too rectangular/almost 'fat' even though he's not. Reminds me a little of that one CAST torso on PSU where it had a built in wierd 'big belly' extension and it looked absurd.

For some (RAcaseal, at least screens) you can use this
http://www.4gamer.net/games/120/G012075/20110822048/

just push one of the pictures & a thumbnail scroller will appear at the top for you to press through. There's 88, so some are sort of buried.

I completely agree with the 'no more psu wacky widget decorated cast' opinions. In a real battle all those goofy fins and enormous skirts would just break off.

Going through the screens, I'm now even more in love with Caseals. Both part combinations look brilliant. That being said....

Dammit, Sega, you're making me want to play female characters again. That's a habit I'm trying to stop doing in MMOs!

[NoiseHERO]

They kinda made him look gross...

That artist needs to learn to draw n- Black guy lips.

[Serephim]

They kinda made him look gross...

That artist needs to learn to draw n- Black guy lips.


....i think they did a great job. What do you mean? Unless you think everyone with those types of lips are "gross".


inb4racist.jpg

[NoiseHERO]

....i think they did a great job. What do you mean? Unless you think everyone with those types of lips are "gross".


inb4racist.jpg

How many black people do you know with giant coccaine covered lips?

At most I could say he looks directly African(still minus the lips)... barely. Then he has this skinny hulk looking face, while everyone else looks like a model...

I'm not seeing any accuracy or balance...

I'm just seeing "Let's make some tough black guy to appeal to the western audience a little bit."

Seriously, as an anime style artist myself, it just bugs me how most japanese people draw black guys. Instead of drawing some borderline blackface mr.popo character... or some disturbingly over detailed uncanny valley faced giant. They could take some notes from the artist that draws the boondocks.

sauce = http://kse332.deviantart.com/

Seriously, even in a game like gears of war, I'd consider this ramar butt ugly.

[Ark22]

Lol majority of the white women don't think they're gross. Fact.

I'm pretty sure it's just a picture and when we create the guy black he will look better. Lol

[Hrith]

They kinda made him look gross...

That artist needs to learn to draw n- Black guy lips.stfu, I can be Big Landman.
All PSO2 now needs are in-game music discs to force other players to listen to the track you want, hu hu hu.

[NoiseHERO]

Not about in game, You can do whatever you in there..

It's about the way that picture was drawn.

Infact... I was actually googling black anime characters... and he's actually the most gross looking one I've ever seen so far...

Infact, with that face, if he was in Afro Samurai, He'd be a badguy.

Seriously, he's like giant chunk of charcoal and someone drew white lips on it. and put him a in a pimped out ramar costume...


@ ark, stop lying, nobodies tryna look at no coccaine lips, maybe a normal looking ugly black dude.

But this guy's from I dunno what country...

[Hrith]

I think you missed my reference :disapprove:
Disappointing for a hipster not to have heard of something.

[Ark22]

All he needs is white fuzzy dice.

[NoiseHERO]

I think you missed my reference :disapprove:
Disappointing for a hipster not to have heard of something.

Nah was in the middle of artistic rage.

One of the many hipster traits.

[Mike]

I think 'all white' was the wrong move to model RAcaseal in.
It is only concept art.


I completely agree with the 'no more psu wacky widget decorated cast' opinions. In a real battle all those goofy fins and enormous skirts would just break off.
We have yet to see what else besides the default FOcast/caseal when it comes to cast parts so it's too early to say that. Also, fins and goofy extensions comeback in the way of visible units.

[Dabian]

A little off-topic, but the Focaseal concept is a charmer too :P

Unless I royally screwed up and this isn't the Focaseal concept.

http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/hunewm.png

2nd from right.

[Retehi]

Black turtleneck rage aside, I was reminded of this guy.

http://www.retrogamer.net/users/3935/thm450/eswat_12.jpg

[landman]

stfu, I can be Big Landman.
All PSO2 now needs are in-game music discs to force other players to listen to the track you want, hu hu hu.
This, I wasn't considering making a human until I saw that design lol

[sugarFO]

RAcaseals are always cute. RAmar... I'm not sure I like the direction they went with, but I'm sure some people do.

[ZephyrAM]

Luckily, as far as we've seen of the character creator, that direction won't tie you down at all in making one. They can look however you want :).

Which isn't to say we may not run across RAmar based NPC's with similar looks though.

[Aether]

So The Canon RAmar is a http://www.pso-world.com/images/news/09-02-11/pso2-ramar-concept.jpg scary black man (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScaryBlackMan)?:-?
Actually, that's an improvement!:D From PSU's Beasts (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnfortunateImplications).

[•Col•]

Wat.

Beasts weren't black. Nor were they meant to be scary.

[GCoffee]

The part of Moatoob on the mission map that marked Dagora City resembled the African continent to an unquestionable degree. No idea what they wanted to imply with that.

[Aumi]

I must be the only one who doesn't think highly on the RAcaseal artwork. And I love RAcaseals.
This time around, she doesn't look either sexy nor cute compared to RAcaseal defaults from PSO, PSZ, or PSU.
I can't put my finger on it. But maybe it's all the wrong curves (her body AND accessories) she's got that makes everything look too oval/egg like?
Well, at least I know my caseal would be customizable. But I was honestly hoping for more from the RAcaseal since they're more or less the iconic/fan favorite of the PSO classes. (if you judge it by the merchandise Sega promotes of PSO & fan works).

But looking at that default as it is now, I can't see her on the cover of anything to promote the awesomness that is PSO2. Maybe HUnewearls will be the new fan favorite this time around.

You said it yourself, the general reception of the design is rather favorable. RAcaseals are always my favorites and I love this design. And, as a figure collector, I would love to see a high quality figure of her (Already got Kotobukiya's Elenor and have their Shino pre-ordered. :3).

[Aether]

Wat.

Beasts weren't black. Nor were they meant to be scary.

The Beast weren't black, however a lot of shall we say black/minority tropes were applied to them.

First they're the only one of the four races to be shown as predominately dark skinned. The Beast are physically Superior to the other three races. And are also regarded as intellectually inferior in addition to being violence prone and ill tempered. They also have of a bad reputation of criminal activity. The Beasts were also used as slave labor for centuries.

Given that message of the Phantasy Star Universe seems to be. That violence and ethnic/racial conflict is bad;And the we should all work together. I find it highly unlikely that Sega and Sonic Team were trying to be racist/offensive.

It's just that some of things about them hit a little close to home.

[Arkios]

This whole conversation is completely ridiculous. Stop trying to make comparisons to things that are COMPLETELY unrelated.

Maybe if Beasts originated from a planet called Moafrica and were enslaved and taken from their homes on Spaceboats. Only to live out their lives as slaves for years, until finally reaching some semblance of equality due to an intergalactic civil rights movement... then maybe, just maybe I'd be inclined to agree with some of this.

But trying to compare fictional characters in a FICTIONAL video game to real life situations/stereotypes is completely ridiculous. Maybe, just maybe if they drew beasts with sambo faces then I'd agree once again, but they did not.



OT: I think the art is pretty neat. I'm looking forward to playing my RAmar and hopefully recreating his look similar to how I had my RAmar setup in the original PSO.

I always liked the "ninja-mask" face, so I'm hoping I can duplicate that look somehow.

[Porkspect]

This whole conversation is completely ridiculous. Stop trying to make comparisons to things that are COMPLETELY unrelated.

Maybe if Beasts originated from a planet called Moafrica and were enslaved and taken from their homes on Spaceboats. Only to live out their lives as slaves for years, until finally reaching some semblance of equality due to an intergalactic civil rights movement... then maybe, just maybe I'd be inclined to agree with some of this.

But trying to compare fictional characters in a FICTIONAL video game to real life situations/stereotypes is completely ridiculous. Maybe, just maybe if they drew beasts with sambo faces then I'd agree once again, but they did not.



OT: I think the art is pretty neat. I'm looking forward to playing my RAmar and hopefully recreating his look similar to how I had my RAmar setup in the original PSO.

I always liked the "ninja-mask" face, so I'm hoping I can duplicate that look somehow.

Yeah, fiction never has any relevance to real life.

[Enforcer MKV]

This whole conversation is completely ridiculous. Stop trying to make comparisons to things that are COMPLETELY unrelated.

Maybe if Beasts originated from a planet called Moafrica and were enslaved and taken from their homes on Spaceboats. Only to live out their lives as slaves for years, until finally reaching some semblance of equality due to an intergalactic civil rights movement... then maybe, just maybe I'd be inclined to agree with some of this.

But trying to compare fictional characters in a FICTIONAL video game to real life situations/stereotypes is completely ridiculous. Maybe, just maybe if they drew beasts with sambo faces then I'd agree once again, but they did not.



OT: I think the art is pretty neat. I'm looking forward to playing my RAmar and hopefully recreating his look similar to how I had my RAmar setup in the original PSO.

I always liked the "ninja-mask" face, so I'm hoping I can duplicate that look somehow.

I dunno, I think there is relevance to the comparision.

I mean, it seems obvious that each race has a design motif, and it's natural to wonder what the source material is.

Think about it for a minute;

Neuman: Japanese (I, for one, see this as obvious.)

Human: Stereo-typical white guys / girls....and MAYBE American...minus the weight problem, but that is a stretch, and I mean a stretch.

CAST: Gundam. Enough said.

Beast: Now, I'd like to direct you back to the bolded section of your post. The story line for Beasts as I understand it is as follows: Beasts were genetically engineered for physical labor, and for work on desolate planets like Moatoob. Now, seeing as Moatoob is shown to be mostly desert, it makes sense that their skin would be much darker, since they have the desert sun bearing down on them. Now, they were slaves for an extended period of time, and eventually rose up and fought back for their freedom, which they obtained, to a certain degree, after fighting for it. Now, no, it's definitely not an exact rip of the story of those with darker skin (African American, Africans, Negros, whichever you prefer to refer to them as.), but.....at the same time, based on a lot of stereotypes of blacks (larger, more intimidating, etc, etc.) I wouldn't say it's so far-fetched as to say the comparision holds water.

tl;dr - It's not such a stretch to say that Beasts are like Blacks. You want the support? Read the post. :-P

[Angelo]

Beasts were modeled after South Americans. Many of them had hispanic surnames, much of their architecture and faux-language is based on aboriginal South American language. It actually rings more true with modern times seeing as how hispanics have replaced blacks as the labor class.

I made a post about it awhile ago here:
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2534059&postcount=83

To be honest, this is one of the main reasons I actually liked beasts. I'm sad to see them go.

[yoshiblue]

Guess beast women are from Brazil.

[Hrith]

Guess beast women are from Brazil.I see what you did there :disapprove:

[Serephim]

The Beast weren't black, however a lot of shall we say black/minority tropes were applied to them.

First they're the only one of the four races to be shown as predominately dark skinned. The Beast are physically Superior to the other three races. And are also regarded as intellectually inferior in addition to being violence prone and ill tempered. They also have of a bad reputation of criminal activity. The Beasts were also used as slave labor for centuries.

Given that message of the Phantasy Star Universe seems to be. That violence and ethnic/racial conflict is bad;And the we should all work together. I find it highly unlikely that Sega and Sonic Team were trying to be racist/offensive.

It's just that some of things about them hit a little close to home.


So, black people are all physically superior to other races, yet they're intellectually inferior to them to make up for their high STR stats. They're also more violence prone, and ill tempered. And also, if you make them too angry, they'll nanonegro into the black beast and kill all your friends.


Yup. That's about as close to home as you'll ever get. Bang-up job!

[Enforcer MKV]

Beasts were modeled after South Americans. Many of them had hispanic surnames, much of their architecture and faux-language is based on aboriginal South American language. It actually rings more true with modern times seeing as how hispanics have replaced blacks as the labor class.

I made a post about it awhile ago here:
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2534059&postcount=83

To be honest, this is one of the main reasons I actually liked beasts. I'm sad to see them go.

Ya know, truth be told, I can see Beasts being derived from either Hispanics or Blacks. There are enough similarities.


Guess beast women are from Brazil.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZING!

[Serephim]

I guess you geniuses just forgot you could pick human and slide the skin color over to dark too.


Guess beast women are from Brazil.

And that would explain why they are INDEED the best.

A+ to you!

[yoshiblue]

I see what you did there :disapprove:

But im not a beast lover. I'm not a hater either. They just bug me. Its odd really. Olaf can thank me later though.

[BIG OLAF]

Guess beast women are from Brazil.

Well, Brazilian women are some of the most attractive on the planet, so I'd agree.

DISCLAIMER: Obviously there's exceptions. Just thought I'd say that before someone decided to be a smartass and post a picture of some old, fat Brazilian granny.

[Kent]

So, black people are all physically superior to other races, yet they're intellectually inferior to them to make up for their high STR stats. They're also more violence prone, and ill tempered.
Stereotypes make me sad, all generalizations are incorrect, etc.

And also, if you make them too angry, they'll nanonegro into the black beast and kill all your friends.
Insert mandatory White Beast joke here?

[Enforcer MKV]

Well, Brazilian women are some of the most attractive on the planet, so I'd agree.

DISCLAIMER: Obviously there's exceptions. Just thought I'd say that before someone decided to be a smartass and post a picture of some old, fat Brazilian granny.

And you sir, have made me cringe. Aww...

AWWWWWWWWWWW>>>>>

XD lol, but yeah, there certainly are some attractive ones. But that could be said of anywhere, really.

[Angelo]

People who cry 'generalization' are just as bad as the people that perpetuate negative stereotypes.

[Miyavi-sensei]

When did we get off the topic of the artwork?

[Serephim]

the moment someone linked "african americans" with "beasts" and actually thought it was going to end well. (??????)


Listen up, kiddies!; it's better to include a kind of indicator in your sentence that states you don't know what your talking about when talking about races you are not familiar with.

[sugarFO]

People who cry 'generalization' are just as bad as the people that perpetuate negative stereotypes.

This so much. It has to end on both sides. Political correctness has gotten out of control!

[lostinseganet]

Im so happy Racaseal (as well as Ramar and Ramarl) are not "exciting".

I mean, what exactly were you guys looking for? More tit-antennas and random floating hunks of metal like on PSP2? Im glad they're not going too far overboard with this stuff. Casts on PSP2 looked ridiculous to me.

And dont forget, we'll probably be able to add to the model with units and frames and whatever.
We Need tit antennas. The reception is horrible and we gotta adjust...for reception. Not everyone had digital signals YA KNOW :)

[Serephim]

the tit antennas were remodeled.

If radio signals are absolutely positively needed, they've been split up and relocated into two distinct, symmetrical locations.


they now serve compound functions ifyaknowatimean

[CatCloud]

And people ask me why i mostly play Female characters...that RAmar is one reason. Too much muscles and plating for a "Range" type, atlest he is not a Spell caster, phew that whould make no sense.
Atlest the HUmar looks decent.

But yeah i hope i can "slim" him down. and remove some of that armor.

The RAcast looks great thou, hope they will show a Male version. or maybe a RAnewm

[Mike]

The RAcast looks great thou, hope they will show a Male version. or maybe a RAnewm
RAcasts are male and if you need pictures, check out the info thread. The RAcaseal is female.

[•Col•]

And people ask me why i mostly play Female characters...that RAmar is one reason. Too much muscles and plating for a "Range" type, atlest he is not a Spell caster, phew that whould make no sense.
Atlest the HUmar looks decent.

But yeah i hope i can "slim" him down. and remove some of that armor.

Have you ever even watched one of the hundred PSO2 character creation videos we have? :l

[Perfect Troll]

The RAmar actually kinda reminds me of Anthony from Metroid: Other M.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSD63jKSugGW2lfjMkdml6KIxWAjCZGt gKBFM5mfhEj0MJp6eP5

Oh... Now I remember him!

[Serephim]

And people ask me why i mostly play Female characters...that RAmar is one reason. Too much muscles and plating for a "Range" type, atlest he is not a Spell caster, phew that whould make no sense.
Atlest the HUmar looks decent.

But yeah i hope i can "slim" him down. and remove some of that armor.

The RAcast looks great thou, hope they will show a Male version. or maybe a RAnewm

Because god forbid any soldier will ever need muscles in combat! ESPECIALLY vs. vicious animals. We can just scare them away with our bishonen scary faces!


Lol, nah, he needs to stay exactly how he is. He's a great point of diversity. Humar is already pretty well built, and Ramar should be as well. Fonewm doesn't look too skinny, but he's smaller than the other two. If you want a skinny default, there's always Fonewm and Fomar. Or you can just...ya kno use the character creator. But theres no reason to bitchify the male officials just to appeal to one crowd of people.

But i dont care what anyone says lol, that armor is badass, and so is his stance.

He's just like "get at me bro"

[Dillo64]

He is Landman from Burning Rangers, WHAT IS THERE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT

[Hrith]

Most shooting game main characters (FPS games, namely) are well-armoured and muscular, I don't see why a ranger should not be tough =/

[ShinMaruku]

Most shooting game main characters (FPS games, namely) are well-armoured and muscular, I don't see why a ranger should not be tough =/
Most of them are ripped off of 40k's Space Marines who are armoured like a aircraft carrier.

[Dabian]

If I made a ranger, (and I'm hoping twin pistols will make it in), then it's Alucard/Dante I go with the character creation :)

[Randomness]

Most of them are ripped off of 40k's Space Marines who are armoured like a aircraft carrier.

Sorry, but... the giant, bulky space marine design is WAY older than that. Also... most of the time I see protagonists with armor MUCH less bulky. 40k is exceptionally large... especially those shoulders...

See, for instance, Starship Troopers, which dates back to the 50s.

[Sienna]

Mobility, none is needed

[ShinMaruku]

Sorry, but... the giant, bulky space marine design is WAY older than that. Also... most of the time I see protagonists with armor MUCH less bulky. 40k is exceptionally large... especially those shoulders...

See, for instance, Starship Troopers, which dates back to the 50s.

40k space marines are all 7-9 feet tall.

[yoshiblue]

Do we really need everyone to be that big and ripped? RAmar is fine as he is.

The cast's joints however still bug me.

[RemiusTA]

Oh... Now I remember him!



That game was terrible. I don't even think I like Metroid anymore.

[Arkios]

I like how everyone is implying that you cannot COMPLETELY adjust the size of your character and determine for yourself whether he will be big/muscular/small/lean/etc.

[hewitt]

That game was terrible. I don't even think I like Metroid anymore.

I agree with this post.

[NoiseHERO]

Lemme make one thing clear just in case...

I just said the damn concept art made RAmar look blackfaced. Which I'm finding really hard to disprove right now. I don't care if the rest of him looks like the incredible hulk or whatever to appeal to 'mericans.

/hands in the air

[Zorafim]

Aw, Other M wasn't terrible. It didn't ruin the series... right?

right?

[NoiseHERO]

Was it really that bad? I actually wanted to play that one...

Though metroid kinda lost spark for me after it went FPS... Which is specifically why...

[Zorafim]

I liked it enough. It was kinda neat, it almost felt like a return to the 2D games. At the same time, it learned from the FpS games, giving a first person view to help with certain parts (shooting missiles, checking for secrets, etc). The dodging could make the game monotonous though, since it wasn't really hard when you got used to it, and hard mode was rather cheap (from what I've heard. It's just normal mode which doesn't let you pick up health or missile upgrades). It was also one of the most linear metroids, up there with Fusion.
Really, I think the game get flack because it's narrative, and most people don't like what they did with Samus. I kinda agree, I don't love what they did with her. I always imagined her to be much more tough than how she was portrayed. But then again, this is Nintendo here. They're there to make games, not stories. The cutscenes were there just for bonus. Yes, all two and a half hours of them. And yes, there was a movie mode to watch all the cutscenes back to back.
It wasn't the best of metroids, but if you're itching for a pretty metroid, it's pretty nice. It's worth the ten hours I invested into it.

[Zyrusticae]

Y'know, one mediocre sequel (it certainly wasn't bad bad, just mediocre) shouldn't be enough to retroactively make you dislike the whole series.

Especially when the previous games still have incredibly high replay value.

PSU didn't make you retroactively hate all Phantasy Star games, did it? 'Cuz, y'know, that'd be kinda weird...

[RemiusTA]

I never hated PSU. The thing I hated the most about PSU was Sega. But it had much less longevity than PSO did, though, probably because if you compare them to eachother in their respective timelines, PSU was a much worse game than PSO was. Doesn't make it a bad game, though.

It's just my opinion, though. I hope nobody quotes me on that.

[spoiler-box]
I'm not going to lie and say i played Other M, because yes, i'd be lying. I did watch the cutscenes, however. They were absolutely atrocious, and yes, that game completely ruined Samus as a character in almost every way a plotline can ruin a character. For some reason, the fool who wrote this story to "flesh out" Samus' character completely ignored every entry in the series prior. Just because a character doesn't talk, it doesn't mean that when you MAKE them talk you can completely rewrite everything about them and change their personality completely.

For instance:

Samus had killed Ridley no less than 5 times over before the events of this game, each form significantly stronger than the last (and more terrifying, to anyone who's played corruption), yet chokes like a bitch during Other M. She's a Bounty Hunter, which generally means she doesn't have to take orders from anybody, yet she damn near gets on her knees for this one guy, to the point where she literally would burn to death before disobeying his orders (wat). Her Chozo Suit, which generally protects her from just about everything, constantly comes off as if it's made of tissue paper -- a feat that usually ONLY happens if she's either a) done with her mission, or b) dead. The game took Samus' gender and made it the main plot of the game. Literally. They threw her sex at the player as many times as they could, where the other games handle it as if it doesn't even make a difference. And it doesn't; the whole point of Samus being Female is that you would never, ever know if she didn't take her suit off. THATS why it was cool that she was a woman in the first damn place.


And about the gameplay....don't really care. You can't advertise a game for it's story, and then when that sucks, you try and fall back on "but it still played fun!" Even if it was the best Metroid action i've ever experienced in my life....the game is still terrible, because you shat all over the plot of the game. Maybe if you removed all those shitty cutscenes, it wouldn't be so bad. : /
[/spoiler-box]

[Zyrusticae]

I guess it's a good thing that I've completely ignored the existence of Other M, then...

That indeed sounds pretty bloody terrible. It's no surprise I've never heard anything positive about the plot.

[Dongra]

I almost made a post about Metroid until I remembered what the topic of this thread was about.

[RemiusTA]

Precisely why i spoiler'd it :3


[spoiler-box]**I forgot to add, the orders Samus were obeying (from the guy who made her his personal bitch for this story) had to do with him putting restrictions on HER OWN POWER SUIT. She literally asks this guy for permission to use her own weapons and armor. There are points in the game where bosses and environments will damn near kill you, until a cutscene pops up and he "authorizes use" of your stronger equipment. What the fuck.**

After i heard that, i deemed this game too pathetic to be called Metroid. That's just....ugh.
[/spoiler-box]

[hewitt]

^This, you go through a minute long lava run where your life is lowering because of the heat. Then like an area or two later, I think, her once-mentor-type-guy tells her she can start using her suit's protection against extreme temperatures... Ludicrous.

[Randomness]

I liked it enough. It was kinda neat, it almost felt like a return to the 2D games. At the same time, it learned from the FpS games, giving a first person view to help with certain parts (shooting missiles, checking for secrets, etc). The dodging could make the game monotonous though, since it wasn't really hard when you got used to it, and hard mode was rather cheap (from what I've heard. It's just normal mode which doesn't let you pick up health or missile upgrades). It was also one of the most linear metroids, up there with Fusion.
Really, I think the game get flack because it's narrative, and most people don't like what they did with Samus. I kinda agree, I don't love what they did with her. I always imagined her to be much more tough than how she was portrayed. But then again, this is Nintendo here. They're there to make games, not stories. The cutscenes were there just for bonus. Yes, all two and a half hours of them. And yes, there was a movie mode to watch all the cutscenes back to back.
It wasn't the best of metroids, but if you're itching for a pretty metroid, it's pretty nice. It's worth the ten hours I invested into it.

It doesn't help that it breaks the canon of Fusion (being when Samus discovers the federation's metroid breeding program... and also that said program was located on a different station)

[redroses]

[spoiler-box]
I'm not going to lie and say i played Other M, because yes, i'd be lying. I did watch the cutscenes, however. They were absolutely atrocious, and yes, that game completely ruined Samus as a character in almost every way a plotline can ruin a character. For some reason, the fool who wrote this story to "flesh out" Samus' character completely ignored every entry in the series prior. Just because a character doesn't talk, it doesn't mean that when you MAKE them talk you can completely rewrite everything about them and change their personality completely.

For instance:

Samus had killed Ridley no less than 5 times over before the events of this game, each form significantly stronger than the last (and more terrifying, to anyone who's played corruption), yet chokes like a bitch during Other M. She's a Bounty Hunter, which generally means she doesn't have to take orders from anybody, yet she damn near gets on her knees for this one guy, to the point where she literally would burn to death before disobeying his orders (wat). Her Chozo Suit, which generally protects her from just about everything, constantly comes off as if it's made of tissue paper -- a feat that usually ONLY happens if she's either a) done with her mission, or b) dead. The game took Samus' gender and made it the main plot of the game. Literally. They threw her sex at the player as many times as they could, where the other games handle it as if it doesn't even make a difference. And it doesn't; the whole point of Samus being Female is that you would never, ever know if she didn't take her suit off. THATS why it was cool that she was a woman in the first damn place.


And about the gameplay....don't really care. You can't advertise a game for it's story, and then when that sucks, you try and fall back on "but it still played fun!" Even if it was the best Metroid action i've ever experienced in my life....the game is still terrible, because you shat all over the plot of the game. Maybe if you removed all those shitty cutscenes, it wouldn't be so bad. : /
[/spoiler-box]


[SPOILER-BOX]
Yes and yes.
I played Other M and was so very disappointed. They made Samus into such an overly emotional woman it was disgusting. Especially because you, as a player knew her as an indepented bad ass bounty hunter that would fight anything. But now she would freeze up in the fight with Ridley because she was so scared of him.
What really pissed me off the most is how obedient she was to that one military guy, I think Adam was his name (with the most horrible part being, that she wouldn't even activate her heat protection without the permission of Adam). Also all kind of weapons. You actually collect no new weapons in the game, they are all already there in your suit, you just aren't allowed to use them. ONLY, nearing the end of the game Adam disappears and Samus then unlocks one of her weapons saying "Any objections Adam?", she says this a little bit in a tone like "oh, look what I am doing without your permission, Adam". So she seems to get a total self esteem kick out of that situation, at least that is how I felt it.

Ugh, they made some really bad decisions. While the gameplay was actually quite good they messed everything up that could be messed up with her personality.
[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Hrith]

I never hated PSU. The thing I hated the most about PSU was Sega. But it had much less longevity than PSO did, though, probably because if you compare them to eachother in their respective timelines, PSU was a much worse game than PSO was. Doesn't make it a bad game, though.Are you sure PSO laster longer? Each instalment certainly did not, and PSO for the Gamecube was a different game altogether, not an add-on.

PSO lasted from late 2000 to late 2006, and PSU from late 2006 to today, seems like a bit of a tie, but PSU is only one game.

[landman]

And I bought Other M and I don't even have a wii, now I officially hate the Team Ninja, seems obvious they can only represent a woman as a sexual icon...

[NoiseHERO]

So basically they just slammed a bunch of female stereotypes on to Samus and tried to advertise her as a final fantasy character with a dash of male domination.

Storywise sounds like they may as well had made hentai game if they were gonna screw her over that badly...

I always figured Samus would be more like Motoko Kusanagi or "I'm too glamorous/Got too much swagger for ya'll, wheres mah money for blowin' up this planet?"

[Enforcer MKV]

Glad I didn't play Other M.

Handheld games were great, even if Fusion was linear.

.....and Wasn't Other M a prequel? I mean, Adam Malkovich was Samus' first CO, right? That tied into a decent plot twist near the end of the game (fusion), and I thought it was exceptionally well done. So...wouldn't everything about Ridley and the Station....not have happened yet? (This is, of course, assuming that Other M is indeed a prequel.)

And spoiler tags be damned, I'm asking a question and want people to see it! XD

(That was in a psuedo-humorous tone, btw...)

[Kent]

Other M takes place directly after Super Metroid.

And it's a bad game not just because of the man-worshipping pussification of Samus, but also because it completely gets rid of the reason anyone played a Metroid game in the first place: Exploration. The game itself is almost as linear as Final Fantasy XIII, and it literally tells you where a powerup is in a room after you clear it of enemies.

The actual action component of the gameplay was pretty good - but ultimately, it's a gameplay system, engine and progression structure more suited to a 3D re-adaptation of a Megaman X game than it is of a Metroid game.

Also, the cutscenes were freaking annoying, and not just because they were bad, but because they were just making excessive and unnecessary breaks away in gameplay.

[RemiusTA]

Glad I didn't play Other M.

Handheld games were great, even if Fusion was linear.

.....and Wasn't Other M a prequel? I mean, Adam Malkovich was Samus' first CO, right? That tied into a decent plot twist near the end of the game (fusion), and I thought it was exceptionally well done. So...wouldn't everything about Ridley and the Station....not have happened yet? (This is, of course, assuming that Other M is indeed a prequel.)

And spoiler tags be damned, I'm asking a question and want people to see it! XD

(That was in a psuedo-humorous tone, btw...)

No, it wasn't. Unfortunately. Honestly, that's the only excuse they could have used for that shitty storyline, but they even blew that. Just to put in perspective how much that story made no sense:

Metriod 1/Zero Mission > Prime 1 >Prime 2 >Prime 3 > Metroid II > Super Metroid > OTHER M > Fusion.


Yesh, all three of the metroid prime games were prequels to everything but the very first metroid game. Anyway, speaking of Metroid Prime...that game was such a perfect example of a SUCCESSFUL 2d > 3d translation that it deserves a lifetime reward. It was the first game I bought for my Gamecube, and god damn was it a great game.

And Metroid Fusion was amazing, regardless of how linear it was. I enjoyed every bit of that game...in fact, i never even noticed it's linearity until people started bringing it up. It had alot more events going on in the game, and the X-parasite and SA-X gave it a great horror feel, which very few 2d games can pull off imo. It felt alot like Super Metroid...which is probably one of the best 2D scrolling games I ever played in my life. (Understandable, it was made by the same people.)

[Enforcer MKV]

No, it wasn't. Unfortunately. Honestly, that's the only excuse they could have used for that shitty storyline, but they even blew that. Just to put in perspective how much that story made no sense:

Metriod 1/Zero Mission > Prime 1 >Prime 2 >Prime 3 > Metroid II > Super Metroid > OTHER M > Fusion.


Yesh, all three of the metroid prime games were prequels to everything but the very first metroid game. Anyway, speaking of Metroid Prime...that game was such a perfect example of a SUCCESSFUL 2d > 3d translation that it deserves a lifetime reward. It was the first game I bought for my Gamecube, and god damn was it a great game.

And Metroid Fusion was amazing, regardless of how linear it was. I enjoyed every bit of that game...in fact, i never even noticed it's linearity until people started bringing it up. It had alot more events going on in the game, and the X-parasite and SA-X gave it a great horror feel, which very few 2d games can pull off imo. It felt alot like Super Metroid...which is probably one of the best 2D scrolling games I ever played in my life. (Understandable, it was made by the same people.)

Oh, I see...Yeah, so glad I didn't play Other M.

And yes, I never even noticed how linear Fusion was until people started saying it. I love that one so much, I actually posted my earlier comment, went up to sleep, decided I wouldn't be able to go to class today. (I'm in Maryland, we are getting hammered by rain right now - there's so much flooding going on.), and pulled out my DS and played....Fusion. LOL! It's so great, I love it. Zero Mission is good, but I want to see Nintendo redeem themselves for the debacle that is Other M. I want to see more of Samus in her Fusion suit, and hell, maybe make it that she has all of her abilities that she already had, but she finds even more. The fact that her biochemistry is altered by the metroid vaccine opens up so many possibilities now. Those ice difussion missiles were great, I started playing with them, and felt a tear of joy roll down my cheek. It was screaming THIS IS AWESOME all the way until I wiped it off. XD

Yup, total Metroid nerd. And damn proud of it.

[NeonaPulsar]

The RAmar almost looks large insect, like a beetle. ^^;:-P

[Zorafim]

I always figured Samus would be more like Motoko Kusanagi or "I'm too glamorous/Got too much swagger for ya'll, wheres mah money for blowin' up this planet?"

This. I miss this. Ever since Zero Mission, they replaced cocky Samus with professional Samus. Even in the manga, she was damn cocky, and it was beautiful. She was also big boned, muscular, and strong, as opposed to this thin and agile thing we got in Brawl. I can understand her being rigid and professional in the flashbacks, but why in every other scene too? It's not that I hate the character, in fact I kinda liked it. It's just not Samus. It's kinda like giving Link an english accent. Badass, sure, but it's not the same character.

That being said, please don't write off Other M as a terrible game if you haven't even played it. Even if it's not up to snuff with other Metroid games, it was still fairly well made. Yes, the exploration was gone, and yes, Samus suddenly decided to have a character swap. But in return, we get some pretty fun 2D styled gameplay, and beautiful scenery. And as for telling you exactly where the powerups are, well, sure. You might know exactly where it is. But can you tell me exactly how to get it? I liked it because you still had to fumble around in order to get it. Heck, I wasn't even able to get two of them on my collectathon until a friend gave me some tips, and I think I beat the game with around 60% (my usual completion bonus).

[RemiusTA]

Sorry, there's no sugar coating it. Any game that fucks over their main character AND storyline AND continuation that bad cannot be good in any way.



Yes, I am being unreasonable. I will deny any bit of that game being good up and down.

[NoiseHERO]

It sounds like a game to rent then if only the gameplay is good.

[Zorafim]

Oh please, it's a metroid game. The two and a half hours of cutscenes make up a fourth of the game. You'll be done with it far before it's time to return it.

And Remius, yes you are. You're insistant on your position, so I won't try to shift it. But I do want to remind you that this is a Nintendo game. Nintendo isn't known for its story telling, its graphics, or its music. It's known for making games with excelent gameplay. Remember Legend of Zelda, whos continuation isn't even known to the word of god. Yet it's one of the most celebrated series in gaming, simply because it's a fun game.
If you want to criticize Other M, go ahead. Say its story is terrible, you have a good point. Say that it fucks with everything the series goes for, you'd be right. But please, don't think it's a waste of time and money to play the game simply because of those points, when the game has more than that to offer.

Wait, what the fuck does this have to do with RAcaseal designs? Confound this lack of information, it leads us to arguments!

[Enforcer MKV]

Wait, what the fuck does this have to do with RAcaseal designs? Confound this lack of information, it leads us to arguments!

I know, right? :lol:

[NoiseHERO]

I thought team ninja made that annoying story and cgi stuff...

(Looked like the ninja gaiden CGI @_@)

Also yeah, Ramar still looks racist.

[redroses]

But I do want to remind you that this is a Nintendo game. Nintendo isn't known for its story telling, its graphics, or its music.

I can agree on the graphics thing, but story telling and especially music? Nintendo creates wonderful music for their games! While maybe Mario games don't have the best story, games like the Legend of Zelda series make up for that in my opinion.

[kyuuketsuki]

Nintendo isn't known for its story telling, its graphics, or its music. [...] Remember Legend of Zelda, whos continuation isn't even known to the word of god.
Graphics: Maybe not known for being bleeding edge, but I don't remember any major Nintendo release ever looking bad, and most were very good looking.

Music: Huh? WTF are you talking about? Nintendo has some of the best music in gaming, period.

Story-telling: Sure, if you're looking stricly at Mario. But Metroid Prime had a wonderful atmosphere and story, IMO. Same with pretty much every LoZ game since Ocarina of Time. LoZ's continuity has squat all to do with the quality of the stories in the individual games.

[RemiusTA]

Graphics: Maybe not known for being bleeding edge, but I don't remember any major Nintendo release ever looking bad, and most were very good looking.



Heh, any one of their games that wasn't Mario Galaxy, Legend of Zelda or a Retro Studios (metroid) title? Nintendo has been ridiculously lax with their graphical quality these days.



Music: Huh? WTF are you talking about? Nintendo has some of the best music in gaming, period.


Eeeeeegh.....I dont know about that. They surely have some of the most memorable tracks for sure. But aside from Mario Galaxy and Zelda (Wind Waker and TP had the best OSTs imo), i think their music always falls into "very nice but nothing for me to buy later" kind of music.

[Dragwind]

Seriously, I can't stop laughing at the RAmar jokes. Honestly though, did caseals just get even better looking? Ay, I can believe.

[Hrith]

Eeeeeegh.....I dont know about that. They surely have some of the most memorable tracks for sure. But aside from Mario Galaxy and Zelda (Wind Waker and TP had the best OSTs imo), i think their music always falls into "very nice but nothing for me to buy later" kind of music.I'm not too sure, either.
Besides those you have mentioned, F-Zero GX had nice tunes. SSBM and SSBB have incredible OSTs, even if most are not original works, the covers are great. Metroid Prime games also have thrilling OSTs. I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot.

I agree Nintendo is far from #1 when it comes to music, but they definitely place at a fair position.

[RemiusTA]

I forgot about SSB. SSB64 was so catchy, and SSBM was just plain epic. Primarily that Fountain of Dreams BGM.

Brawl had some truely amazing music, but i think the fact that the game is trash made me not like it as much.

[kyuuketsuki]

Brawl had some truely amazing music, but i think the fact that the game is trash made me not like it as much.
I've been playing Brawl recently, and I don't get it... what's the big difference between it and Melee that make people hate it? It seems pretty much identical to Melee from what I can remember of it, except for the slightly different character line-up.

[NoiseHERO]

I've been playing Brawl recently, and I don't get it... what's the big difference between it and Melee that make people hate it? It seems pretty much identical to Melee from what I can remember of it, except for the slightly different character line-up.

Personally there was something about brawl... that just made me grow out of it quick compared to melee. Like they put all this money and effort into it and things didn't come out as perfect as it looked...

I know the online stuff was horrible, but that could go for any nintendo game for multiple reasons. Most of the "meta game" was butchered for the tourneyfags (That part I didn't care much about) and they took out Roy, young link and mew two, who all had a lot of fans (well young link was MY favorite)

Other than that I forgot the rest, and like I said... something about it that just didn't jump out at me and made me think "I WANNA PLAY THIS FOR HOURS" like melee did.

Of course I don't miss melee much either, though it ate the fuck out of my middle school life.

[Angelo]

I've been a complete Smash nut since the 64 version and I don't get where all the hate from Brawl comes from.

I think it's by far the best installment of the series. It's significantly more balanced than Melee and has a ton of more content.

It also completely destroyed the 'meta-game', which I personally considered a step in the right direction.

...Actually, I do understand where all the hate comes from.

[NoiseHERO]

Brawl was...alright...

Everyone probably just outgrew the series in general. mix that up with the butthurt tourneyfags and...

ehn...

[•Col•]

People are upset about Brawl because it changed the series from being a fighting game to a full-on party game.

[Angelo]

Everyone probably just outgrew the series in general. mix that up with the butthurt tourneyfags and...

ehn...


Those two points were exactly what I was thinking, but I'm glad you said it for me.

[NoiseHERO]

I don't see how far you can possibly improve a fighting game without focusing on it's "lol metagame" which is probably how I assume other series get away with spamming identical games (street fighter) and all of them selling.

Of course I can't assume the tournyfag community in smash brothers is nearly as big as street fighters though...

Maybe it's just bad chemestry, the first two games being kind of party-ish to begin with not helping. Which is why the non-tournyfags just outgrew it...

[•Col•]

Well like I said, they changed some pretty big core aspects from the two games... Basically, removing a lot of things to make it less competitive, and adding things to make it easier for new players. For instance, removing Z/L-teching which was in 64 and Melee respectively... Removing 95%+ of hitstun, which means hardly any "true" combos... Then adding things, like autosnapping to the ledge... And making tether recoveries also auto-snap to the ledge as well.

But like I said before, they tried to turn it into a party game, which a LOT of Wii games are aimed for.... Fun for the whole family.

[NoiseHERO]

Well like I said, they changed some pretty big core aspects from the two games... Basically, removing a lot of things to make it less competitive, and adding things to make it easier for new players. For instance, removing Z/L-teching which was in 64 and Melee respectively... Removing 95%+ of hitstun, which means hardly any "true" combos... Then adding things, like autosnapping to the ledge... And making tether recoveries also auto-snap to the ledge as well.

But like I said before, they tried to turn it into a party game, which a LOT of Wii games are aimed for.... Fun for the whole family.

afaik all those things you just said we're basically fancy names for unintentional game mechanic exploits.

Which I'll forever only see as a cheap trick, that's only not a cheap trick because everyones saying it's not.

All the metagame kids at least.

That's fine for you guys, play the game how you want. But I'm not complaining if it's taken out. 8D

Though it was funny that people even went as far as hacking just to trying and bring those things into fully into brawl. Which kind of pushes to kill the point of even trying to justify those *cough* glitches to begin with.


edit: wow when this game finally comes out they should just wipe this whole forum, since it may as well be an off-topic section right now...

[•Col•]

afaik all those things you just said we're basically fancy names for unintentional game mechanic exploits.

Wat.

Z/L-cancelling were intentional. ._. They were even programmed differently in 64 and Melee.... And hitstun being an exploit? HAHAHA.... Funny, man. And I actually mispoke in my last post. There is plenty of hitstun in Brawl. However, you can cancel it by... Well, doing litteraly any input. So hitstun isn't some "exploit".

And for not auto-snapping the ledge in 64/Melee.... How can that even be considered an exploit? O_o It was obviously intentional. If it wasn't, then... Well, they would've programmed it so that it made you autosnap to the ledge.

As far as an actual exploit.... You're thinking of wavedashing, which definitely was an exploit. But notice nowhere in my previous post did I mention it. In fact everything I talked about was in both 64 and Melee. They're not just some programming errors.

You obviously don't know much of anything about the Smash series mechanics, so I say let's just drop it.

[NoiseHERO]

You obviously don't know much of anything about the Smash series mechanics, so I say let's just drop it.

This I'm easily not really ashamed of.

And I still think it's all BS either way.

If it's not in the game booklet I don't really care whose ass it's coming out of. >_>;

[•Col•]

This I'm easily not really ashamed of.

And I still think it's all BS either way.

If it's not in the game booklet I don't really care whose ass it's coming out of. >_>;

That's the weird thing about the Smash series though.... It's never been friendly to newcomers when it comes to explaining mechanics.... Like Directional Influence, which is a BIG deal, which allows you to change your trajectory when you're hit by an attack, isn't explained at all in any of the manuals/short instructional videos...

I dunno, it's just weird.

[RemiusTA]

Brawl was...alright...

Everyone probably just outgrew the series in general. mix that up with the butthurt tourneyfags and...

ehn...

I'll explain this so everyone can understand, as i too once used to use that term "tournyfag" for everyone who hated on brawl when it was released.
[spoiler-box] Follow these simple steps!


1) Play Melee

2) Play Brawl

At first glance, Brawl seems like an overall improvement on Melee, correct? Now, here comes the integral step:

3) Play a traditional 2D "in-depth" fighting game.

Blazblue, Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Tekken 6, Virtua Fighter (if you will, i've never played it), Soul Calibur, ect ect. You know, basically any game that is built around competitive and tournament level play....which basically means it's built to have solid and in-depth gameplay mechanics and BALANCED characters and movesets.

First thing you'll say is, "But Smash Brothers isn't a fighting game", or "They don't even relate to eachother!"....Well, you're wrong. They absolutely do. The basic things you learn that make you better in competitive play (frame advantage, punishing, baiting, spacing, zoning, trapping, move properties such as Invinci frames, guard point frames, limb in/vulnerability, priority, what they cancel into, feeling for what they can COMBO into, okizeme (keeping the opponent from recovering) footsies/mindgames (whatever you call it), ECT ECT they all USUALLY can be used in the other games you play to give you an automatic advantage over the "casual" player who only learns how to play based on simple moveset given to them.


..phew.

And now, finally, after you've completed step 3 (which im sure few of you have)....:

4) Play Brawl.

....Anddd suddendly you start to scratch your head.




- There is like, no gravity at all.
- There is no Blockstun. Which is just annoying. (and also means no frame advantages for slower characters)
- There is barely any balance between character moves. EVERY move is super spammy, and ridiculously fast for no reason.
- There is almost NO KIND of recovery frames, on almost ANY of the moves. Of anybody. In the entire game. This essentially means that the concept of Bait -> Punish, or Wiff -> Punish is absolutely non-existent. The game is literally encouraging youto spam moves for free.
- A funny (read: gay) new mechanic was introduced called "Stale Move Reduction". In a nutshell, the more you use a move (whether it hits or misses IIRC), the weaker the move gets. (Which is why, in case anyone wondered, matches in Brawl carry on well into the 200's when in 64 or Melee, getting so much as jabbed with more than 120 damage knocked you clear off the stage. In Brawl, surviving a Smash Attack at 200% is commonplace. The only way to reset the effect is to die. It generally means, your most effective moves are going to be useless by the time you're ready to kill whomever you're fighting. It also means the game is LITERALLY PUNISHING YOU FOR STAYING ALIVE. The ONLY comeback mechanic in a fighting game i can think of worse than this is X-Factor on Shitty vs. Fuckcom 3.It's supposed to encourage you to use the rest of your moves, but about 98% of them are useless on Brawl because...
- There is no hitstun. Which means:
- There are no combos.

Go back and play melee after brawl again. You'll notice something -- that game had alot more depth than you realized as a casual player. This is why Melee is seen as the absolute superior title in the series -- it was the most polished and solid, with the most underlying depth. Practicing in that game got you better -- practicing in Brawl is absolutely useless, because there is nothing to practice.





[/spoiler-box]

TL;DR at that ridiculous rant of mine?

http://www.1up.com/news/masahiro-sakurai-reflects-super-smash

I dont disagree with his idea, i just think it was a bit extreme to destroy the entire game.




Edit: Oh man you guys.


"METAGAME" is just another word to say "what the competition is doing". You don't "study it" or "follow it", you naturally evolve into it as it is the path the game ITSELF takes you into improving beyond the limits of scrubdom.

"Metagame" in real life would be crossups or elaborate team plays in Basketball, or a curve ball or tricky pitch in Baseball. Or perhaps using the flexibility of your rapier in Fencing, (which i think is gay but whatever, not real swords), or Feints in Marital Arts or MMA. It's just the path to the best you can be. The problem is when the "metagame" revolves around GLITCHES.


Wavedashing was the only one in Melee i can think of aside from PERHAPS the pivot grab. But wavedashing wasn't a glitch -- it was just an exploit. You were not invincible while doing it, and it COULD be baited and punished if you used it wrong, just like any move. But it did allow you to breifly ignore the programmed physics of your characters, and to dodge moves without the typical drawbacks associated with it (recovery time, turning around, ect).

[landman]

Even if the previous games were that better, they still failed as a vs game, luck (items) was always a great factor, a factor that does not exist in "serious" vs games. So for me this series have always been a "party" game.

[•Col•]

Even if the previous games were that better, they still failed as a vs game, luck (items) was always a great factor, a factor that does not exist in "serious" vs games. So for me this series have always been a "party" game.

Want to play a party game with a bunch of friends? Turn all the items on max.

Want to play a competitive game with a fairly deep fighting system? Turn most(or even all) of the items off.

At least in 64/Melee you have the option to make it into a party game... In Brawl, you're just kinda stuck with it.

[Angelo]

At least in 64/Melee you have the option to make it into a party game... In Brawl, you're just kinda stuck with it.

I disagree, I've had some of the most intense 1v1 matches playing Brawl. I'd even say that they were more intense than previous iterations, primarily because of balance. Tournaments always end in my group with Mario or Dedede (myself) vs. my best friend (Metaknight) and the matches are always very tactical, fast-paced, and a ton of fun.

I should note though that I play the game through the Gecko OS using cheats to disable tripping.

I do see what Remius is saying that, and I don't disagree with that definition of a 'metagame'. It's those very glitches and exploits that turn a game sour and distort the intended atmosphere of the game.

[landman]

Want to play a competitive game with a fairly deep fighting system? Turn most(or even all) of the items off.
Having the option to play any other real fighting game, I would provably pass.

[Aumi]

So... Why exactly are people discussing Super Smash Bros. combat mechanics in a thread about concept art for PSO2?

[NoiseHERO]

So... Why exactly are people discussing Super Smash Bros. combat mechanics in a thread about concept art for PSO2?

The same reason you're questioning it without posting something on topic to prevent you from being a hypocrit-

I mean, iono this thread is dried out. o_o

[Geistritter]

RAcaseal looks... as expected. I'm gonna be pissed if there are no metal skirts, though.

RAmar will haunt me in my sleep.

[Aumi]

The same reason you're questioning it without posting something on topic to prevent you from being a hypocrit-

I mean, iono this thread is dried out. o_o

It's kind of hard to post something on-topic when the last five pages or something have been almost completely off-topic, I have to admit that. At least I tried to point out that the conversation is completely out of place! D:


RAcaseal looks... as expected. I'm gonna be pissed if there are no metal skirts, though.

What? There are obviously metal skirts. She wears one in case you didn't notice...

[Geistritter]

It's more of a... fringe. I mean something more akin to one of PSU's default female Cast outfits. The name escapes me, as the names for things in that game were... yeah.

This is extreme nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking and isn't meant to be taken seriously, by the way.

[•Col•]

I disagree, I've had some of the most intense 1v1 matches playing Brawl. I'd even say that they were more intense than previous iterations, primarily because of balance. Tournaments always end in my group with Mario or Dedede (myself) vs. my best friend (Metaknight) and the matches are always very tactical, fast-paced, and a ton of fun.

I should note though that I play the game through the Gecko OS using cheats to disable tripping.

I didn't say it was impossible for it to be competitive.... Just that Melee was WAY much more so.

Also, by hacking the game in any way, you've already changed the game in a pretty significant way. Tripping is one of the large reasons many people consider Brawl to be a party game now.

And lol landman. You're really going to try to argue that it's better for a game to be only a party-ish game when it can be a competitive fighter JUST as well without effecting the party-ish parts? Really?

[Angelo]

Also, by hacking the game in any way, you've already changed the game in a pretty significant way. Tripping is one of the large reasons many people consider Brawl to be a party game now.

Yeah, I know ]:

[Hrith]

RAmar will haunt me in my sleep.And elsewhere.

[RemiusTA]

Even if the previous games were that better, they still failed as a vs game, luck (items) was always a great factor, a factor that does not exist in "serious" vs games. So for me this series have always been a "party" game.You've been able to turn items off since SSB64.

Even before i knew what a frame advantage was (i started Blazblue around 2009, been playing melee since forever), when me and my friends wanted to have serious matches, we went to the best places possible -- No items, Final Destination / Dreamland / Fountain of Dreams / somewhere static and fair for all characters. After that, there was no more luck factor in Melee than there was in any real fighting game.

If you are on the Offensive in brawl, you're PROBABLY going to lose, unless you're Metaknight, because he's so RIDICULOUSLY fast. There is just absolutely nothing offensive about the game, because thinking ahead gets you nowhere -- You fall too slow for aerial attacks to work, and every attack is so fast with so little recovery that any move that misses will insure you not even getting punished for it. Brawl was a game of Tag. And to top it all off, once you finally get that hit in, there is no hitstun, which means you can't combo. You just have to reset and play the Tag game again. Melee was a fighting game with a few party game qualities able to be turned on or off. In brawl, only fun to be had with the game is with the items on, because there was nothing underneath the fighting mechanics to stand on by itself. That's the difference.


Edit: not to mention you were pretty much insured life after being knocked off the stage unless it was 1) a Star KO (top of screen), 2) a knockback powerful enough to make you hit the side KO zones, or 3) you were someone like Link, who had an absolutely shitty recovery. The gravity was so low and the "magnetic hands" were so powerful for the edges...ALSO, you could grab the ledge backwards.

[spoiler-box]
Remember Mario's Cape move from Melee? Remember how you could use it during certain moves to completely expose the back of an unsuspecting opponent (OR, use it to flag someone like Fox or Falco using illusion/firefox from getting back on the stage?) Using it on brawl is basically useless, since the move is literally too slow to even get an attack in if you expose a persons back, since everyone recovers so fast.

Someone pointed that out to me, and thats one of the first things I noticed about brawl sucking while playing.


The first thing? I had a friend who mained Metaknight, while i usually mained Zelda. During our 1v1 matches, i would CONSTANTLY hit him with Zelda's Fsmash (ridiculous damage and knockback), but he would never die, even in the 200s. But once i died, i could literally hit him with almost any move, and he'd be off the stage instantly. The game DOES NOT ALLOW YOU to gain a lead and keep it. It dumbs your attacks down so badly that it's almost impossible for you to keep a lead.

Due to ridiculous Stale Move Reduction on Brawl, the moves that you barely use ever are the only ones that are useful when it comes to KOing people. If anyone has used zelda before, they know how RIDICULOUSLY slow and low-ranged her tilt moves are, which generally means i was unable to KO anyone without getting extremely lucky.

A game of tag. I sware, Brawl was a wasted entry into the series. You don't have to make a BAD game just to appeal to casuals, my god.
[/spoiler-box]

[NoiseHERO]

You've been able to turn items off since SSB64.

Even before i knew what a frame advantage was (i started Blazblue around 2009, been playing melee since forever), when me and my friends wanted to have serious matches, we went to the best places possible -- No items, Final Destination / Dreamland / Fountain of Dreams / somewhere static and fair for all characters. After that, there was no more luck factor in Melee than there was in any real fighting game.

If you are on the Offensive in brawl, you're PROBABLY going to lose, unless you're Metaknight, because he's so RIDICULOUSLY fast. There is just absolutely nothing offensive about the game, because thinking ahead gets you nowhere -- You fall too slow for aerial attacks to work, and every attack is so fast with so little recovery that any move that misses will insure you not even getting punished for it. Brawl was a game of Tag. And to top it all off, once you finally get that hit in, there is no hitstun, which means you can't combo. You just have to reset and play the Tag game again. Melee was a fighting game with a few party game qualities able to be turned on or off. In brawl, only fun to be had with the game is with the items on, because there was nothing underneath the fighting mechanics to stand on by itself. That's the difference.


Edit: not to mention you were pretty much insured life after being knocked off the stage unless it was 1) a Star KO (top of screen), 2) a knockback powerful enough to make you hit the side KO zones, or 3) you were someone like Link, who had an absolutely shitty recovery. The gravity was so low and the "magnetic hands" were so powerful for the edges...ALSO, you could grab the ledge backwards.

[spoiler-box]
Remember Mario's Cape move from Melee? Remember how you could use it during certain moves to completely expose the back of an unsuspecting opponent (OR, use it to flag someone like Fox or Falco using illusion/firefox from getting back on the stage?) Using it on brawl is basically useless, since the move is literally too slow to even get an attack in if you expose a persons back, since everyone recovers so fast.

Someone pointed that out to me, and thats one of the first things I noticed about brawl sucking while playing.


The first thing? I had a friend who mained Metaknight, while i usually mained Zelda. During our 1v1 matches, i would CONSTANTLY hit him with Zelda's Fsmash (ridiculous damage and knockback), but he would never die, even in the 200s. But once i died, i could literally hit him with almost any move, and he'd be off the stage instantly. The game DOES NOT ALLOW YOU to gain a lead and keep it. It dumbs your attacks down so badly that it's almost impossible for you to keep a lead.

Due to ridiculous Stale Move Reduction on Brawl, the moves that you barely use ever are the only ones that are useful when it comes to KOing people. If anyone has used zelda before, they know how RIDICULOUSLY slow and low-ranged her tilt moves are, which generally means i was unable to KO anyone without getting extremely lucky.

A game of tag. I sware, Brawl was a wasted entry into the series. You don't have to make a BAD game just to appeal to casuals, my god.
[/spoiler-box]

I coulda sworn it only dumbed down attacks you used more than once. one of the reasons sonic was so hard to learn to use because of his annoying lack of finishers. Also I swear they designed him to fail against mario in every way.

[RemiusTA]

Sonic sucked because he relied on one move to win the game, but as that one move would undoubtedly become useless early on in the match (due to Stale Move Reduction), you had to rely on his other attacks....which were PAINFULLY slow to the point that you would absolutely never hit anybody in brawl. And i mean, sonic SUCKED. He could tack on damage pretty well, but it was impossible to kill anyone. He was literally the worst character in that game.

And no, it wore down if it connected. No matter what you do, after the first time you use a move in brawl, it's about 98% sure that it'll never be as powerful as it was the first time you used it.

Characters without multiple moves capable of KOing were absolutely fucked in that game for that reason. It's the very reason i stopped using Zelda and quit playing the game -- Her smash attacks are among the most powerful in the game, but they're useless when they're needed the most. Even her LIGHTNING KICK (sweet spot F-air) doesn't KO after a while.

[•Col•]

Ahem. What you're referring to is stale moves. When you hit a character with a certain move, if you hit them with the same move in a row, it will decrease the damage/knockback of the move.

So for instance, if you hit with Zelda's fsmash when it's completely fresh, it may kill a character at, let's say.. 130%. They make it back, and you hit them with an fsmash again... It becomes weaker, and will kill the character at 145%... He comes back again, you hit with another fsmash, it would now kill him at 155%... And so on and so forth. I think the cap where a move won't decrease any further is after like 6-8 times of use.

But anyway, you can "refresh" a move by using another move in it's place. So let's say with Zelda, you hit them with fsmash... Then when they're recovering, you hit them with a Side-B projectile. This hit refreshes your fsmash to it's full power once again. Knowing this, certain characters have a really easy time refreshing their moves to keep them at full power. Fox's lasers and Marth's side b are good cases, because each individual hit counts as a separate move... So after about 5 hits of Fox's lasers, all his move are close to full power once again.

This staling of moves was actually in Melee as well, however it didn't have NEARLY as large of an effect that it does in Brawl.


But.... Anyway. By far the biggest reason Brawl is a bad competitive game is because it punishes you for actually playing correctly. What I mean is, well... The staling of moves that I just talked about is one way. But at low %'s, a CRAP TON of moves exist that get you hit afterwards... Just use Ike's Side B on anyone lower than 30%, or use any one of Jigglypuff's laggy ground moves on an opponent at 0% and you'll see what I mean.

[RemiusTA]

Yeah....i explained Stale Move Reduction like twice i think on that last page. Yeah it existed in Melee and 64 as well, but in Melee, the most that it did was decrease a few points of damage -- the knockback was largely untouched. Unless you were some DI god or something, getting hit at 150% was the end of your life. Not to mention, Edgeguarding was a much bigger part of Melee -- the act of having to get back on the stage was dangerous to anyone who knew how to stop you. This is why in melee, high damage causing you to fly off the map (but not kill you) with a simple jab was important.

That getting hit for playing correctly, that's a large drawback of Brawl having absolutely no hitstun. I was looking for the youtube video of 2 samus's holding the Jab button (for the jab combo), and having the first samus literally get interrupted INBETWEEN jabs with another jab. Unfortunately, couldn't find it.

This is probably unrelated, but enjoy this instead!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWv5DP2gTwA


Anyway, getting hit after doing an attack happened in Melee too, but it was more a bonus for having low damage than a punish for connnecting -- if you used weak attacks, it didn't happen to you. Not to mention at low damage, It's easier to juggle enemies in Melee.


Like i said before, Next time you guys play brawl, pick Pikachu, and when someone tries to attack you, SPAM his downsmash. Better yet? Someone pick Pit. When someone attacks, dodge, and then instantly do his Down Smash. It comes out so fast that anyone who tries to follow up will be hit instantly. In fact, most of the moves in brawl come out in like 5 frames or less. It's absolutely ridiculous.


Another annoying thing i noticed in Brawl, Teching off surfaces is much, much more difficult because you're never in your hitstun animation because of how easy it is to cancel out of it. So i hit the floor and just tumble...

[•Col•]

I thought you didn't understand how it worked because of this:


And no, it wore down if it connected. No matter what you do, after the first time you use a move in brawl, it's about 98% sure that it'll never be as powerful as it was the first time you used it.

A move can be as strong as the first time you used it. You just have to use another move beforehand, lol.

[Zorafim]

I don't know if it's this thread, or the breast slider thread, which is the best thread on this forum. How many topics have we covered since this started?

[Zyrusticae]

Nothing can ever beat a thread about having manual control over mammary glands.

Nothing.

[Enforcer MKV]

Except maybe commenting on them with a mature manner on a somewhat immature topic. Or so it's said.

Maybe.