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View Full Version : Ultimate difficulty : yes or no?



SELENNA
Sep 5, 2011, 09:31 PM
Do you think Phantasy Star Online 2 will feature an Ultimate difficulty setting? To me, discovering it on the Dreamcast was almost like a new game; faster and deadlier monsters with new skins, names and even reskinned areas. Unfortunately something tells me the team behind PSO2 didn't plan something as huge, probably because it takes time to create more loot, monsters, etc. for a new difficulty setting. But I hope I'm wrong and it's in there with some drastic visual changes from the other difficulties.

What do you think?

BIG OLAF
Sep 5, 2011, 09:36 PM
It'll probably have a different mechanic for difficulty.

str898mustang
Sep 5, 2011, 09:37 PM
YES x10

Alnet
Sep 5, 2011, 09:58 PM
I'm all for it. We should have a steep difficulty jump at endgame, and having different enemies, new area hazards, and so on would be a step in right direction.

Ark22
Sep 5, 2011, 10:01 PM
I want it so hard that my pc will overheat after 1,000 tries.

Serephim
Sep 5, 2011, 10:35 PM
somehow i highly doubt we'll ever get an "ultimate mode" akin to PSO Ep1's. It was just too epic of an idea for them to ever think twice about doing it again.

HeartBreak301
Sep 5, 2011, 11:06 PM
They're probably going to pull a PSU and go with C, B, A, S, S2 and S3.

NoiseHERO
Sep 5, 2011, 11:11 PM
>assumes the worse case scenario because PSU wasn't PSO.

Serephim
Sep 5, 2011, 11:22 PM
Huh? PSU's mission system was fine. It was the way the missions were handeled that was the shitty part.

S-rank transformed alot of the enemies completely in PSU, just like in PSO. The only thing that didn't change was the level graphics, which should have definitely happened IMO.


The thrill of opening up Ultimate Mode and realizing that everything was completely different was such a great moment in gaming for me. It made the trip to the ruins so much more fun, it was like i was playing an entirely new episode, even though the level layout was exactly the same.

Blueblur
Sep 6, 2011, 12:15 AM
They're probably going to pull a PSU and go with C, B, A, S, S2 and S3.

Looks like they're going with specific grades for Meseta drops and amount of EXP in the Quest description. Check the link below.

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/gmw/docs/475/425/pso27.jpg

Zorafim
Sep 6, 2011, 12:19 AM
The only reason we had it in PSO was because the game was getting an upgrade. Remember that at first, the insane level cap was 100, and the hardest difficulty was Vhard. Then V2 dropped with Ultimate Mode, and no other re-release ever had as big of a jump between the difficulties.

That being said, yes. I would love another ultimate mode. I loved the fact that my expectations of being the big cheese in Vhard were crushed once I saw that boomas were no longer as cuddly as they were before. PSU captured that a bit, and I'm sure we'll see some of it here. I just want to know that my level being increased means more than just bigger numbers.

ShinMaruku
Sep 6, 2011, 01:28 AM
The more difficulty tier the better the climb to the top is. Should never be just easy and hard.

yoshiblue
Sep 6, 2011, 01:32 AM
They should add random wake up calls too lol.

Ogni-XR21
Sep 6, 2011, 02:12 AM
Ultimate was just something to add to version2. I would love for it to come back but honestly I don't see it coming.

Pillan
Sep 6, 2011, 08:20 AM
Personally, I'm hoping they don't do the PSU method of "ultimate" difficulty, as A, S, S2, and S3 all felt redundant. The enemy change in PSU actually occurred at enemy level 50, which was A rank. And then they continually weakened the A and S rank versions of the modified enemy as higher difficulties were added.

In PSP2, they reduced it back to four difficulties, with S rank being the equivalent of "ultimate." Though that was a better step, it still had the issue with enemies changing in A or even B rank, long before the high difficulty missions. Of course, the enemies did get faster and significantly more powerful in S rank.

But, to answer the question, I do expect it to appear in some form toward the later parts of this game. I expect it to go about the same as it always has - a few common/well known enemies changing and many of the less frequent ones remaining exactly the same and all the combat events sped up.

moorebounce
Sep 6, 2011, 08:58 AM
Whatever that mess they had on PSU sucked hairy bean bags. They need to bring back the PSO difficulties.

darkante
Sep 6, 2011, 10:06 AM
Would love some kinda of extra gimmick happening in the hardest difficulty.
Maybe not having completely new enemies, but make the regular enemies shinier or darker in appearance and give them a huge boost in speed and attack range to show that they are quite different.

Also, make Rifles more useful.
I love how good they were in PSU, but not in PSP2/Infinity.
Mostly because the knockdown effect were removed for regular shots and replaced with a very PP heavy shot that may knockdown (useless IMO).
I donīt really see the reason for that considering how cheap that CB II is on Shotgun. >.>.


I donīt mean them to implent anything to cheap, but something other then pure damage..
Maybe a confuse attack that makes them go berserk on their bretheren for a minute or so.
That way leaves option for a personal army against big enemies that wonīt be effected. =)

NoiseHERO
Sep 6, 2011, 10:11 AM
Would love some kinda of extra gimmick happening in the hardest difficulty.
Maybe not having completely new enemies, but make the regular enemies shinier or darker in appearance and give them a huge boost in speed and attack range to show that they are quite different.

Also, make Rifles more useful.
I love how good they were in PSU, but not in PSP2/Infinity.
Mostly because the knockdown effect were removed for regular shots and replaced with a very PP heavy shot that may knockdown (useless IMO).
I donīt really see the reason for that considering how cheap that CB II is on Shotgun. >.>.


I donīt mean them to implent anything to cheap, but something other then pure damage...

make rifles more useful? they have like asdfasdgasdg different functions now.

darkante
Sep 6, 2011, 10:12 AM
Yeah, this is more like a general saying.
Itīs good to hear that their are some improvement.

Tetsaru
Sep 6, 2011, 01:48 PM
"Normal, Hard, Very Hard, and Ultimate," or "C, B, A, S, S2, and S3?" Really, the fuck does it matter? As long as the game has SOME sort of logical difficulty curve, either through different areas or being able to set difficulties, or both, and provides some sort of challenge, then I don't really care what the hell it's called. Wanting them to bring back "Ultimate Mode" in particular... that just sounds like nostalgia-fanboyism talking to me - like saying "ZOMG Sonic shouldn't have green eyes," etc. Now, if it were CHALLENGE Mode, then yeah, I'd be all for that making a comeback, because it was actually a UNIQUE gameplay mode that I haven't really seen in other games. But again, if they wanted to call it "Survival Mode" or "X difficulty," etc., then I wouldn't be messed up about it. People are just getting upset over trivial details instead of being concerned with the actual gameplay, which we still have yet to experience first-hand.

That aside, I'd still like to see all the monsters go through some significant change on whatever the highest difficulty is. And no, that wasn't unique to PSO's Ultimate Mode - PSU had it too on S+ difficulties, although not as great an extent (such as PSO's lolreskinned maps). But yeah, something to give players a WTF wake-up call and keep them on their toes. :D

Hrith
Sep 6, 2011, 02:44 PM
[...]The difference was that PSO monsters had no level, and Normal / Hard / Very Hard / Ultimate were difficulties for all the enemies once selected. In PSU, the monsters had levels, and the same difficulty could meam very different levels depending on the mission, even if they had the same enemies.

Both systems work, but I think PSU had too many difficulty settings, like Pillan.

Fayorei
Sep 6, 2011, 06:41 PM
YES X INFINITY

(PUN'D)

ShinMaruku
Sep 6, 2011, 06:42 PM
You guys are assuming the character model changes will be coming (Although that was a empty change because they acted the same and looked goofy.)

Enforcer MKV
Sep 6, 2011, 08:24 PM
I DEMAND "VERY ULTIMATE!"

XD

Arika
Sep 6, 2011, 11:55 PM
Instead using the word of "ultimate" to limit themselves from increase difficulty as the game goes on. They rather just use other kind of world to mention difficulty rank. may be using star or just C B A S S2 S3 like PSU.

ShinMaruku
Sep 7, 2011, 12:14 AM
You know what you call it doesn't really matter.

kyuuketsuki
Sep 7, 2011, 12:25 AM
I don't think this topic was ever specifically about the word "ultimate", but rather the idea of reskinning enemies (and changing up some of their abilities) and maps at the highest difficulty in the same vein as PSO. So, I dunno why people are getting all bent out of shape about some non-existent argument over the usage/non-usage of the word "ultimate" in particular.

Serephim
Sep 7, 2011, 12:45 AM
You guys are assuming the character model changes will be coming (Although that was a empty change because they acted the same and looked goofy.)

goofy my ass. They all looked cool to me!

AlexCraig
Sep 7, 2011, 03:20 AM
You guys are assuming the character model changes will be coming (Although that was a empty change because they acted the same and looked goofy.)

Ye never ran into a Hildetorr, have you? Or a Gulgus? Those things looked badass!

Ce'Nedra
Sep 7, 2011, 03:41 AM
This game needs a Ultimate mode if they want to call it PSO2 if you ask me. Wonder if we get something like a Episode 1 and Episode 2 as well...

Serephim
Sep 7, 2011, 11:43 AM
probably, but definitely not in one sitting. Ep2 was pretty much a different game with the same engine.

ShinMaruku
Sep 7, 2011, 07:09 PM
Ye never ran into a Hildetorr, have you? Or a Gulgus? Those things looked badass!

Looked funny to me, must have been art style. But really I would have liked different behavoir too. The change was a nice enough gesture though.

Kamen Rider Sting
Sep 11, 2011, 06:43 AM
How the difficulty curve should be paved out will be a difficult task for the programmers, they probably have difficulty settings for their work load. PSO had Normal, Hard, Very Hard and Ultimate, PSU went C, B, A, S, S2(SS), and S3(SSS). PSP also included a star system as well. I believe all games had a LV requirement respectively. Wonder what they'll do for PSO2?

Arika
Sep 11, 2011, 11:44 PM
I don't think this topic was ever specifically about the word "ultimate", but rather the idea of reskinning enemies (and changing up some of their abilities) and maps at the highest difficulty in the same vein as PSO. So, I dunno why people are getting all bent out of shape about some non-existent argument over the usage/non-usage of the word "ultimate" in particular.

because that is what the topic says in big letter. It asked "Ultimate difficult yes or no" instead of "reskin enemy when level up yes or not"

If you ask about reskin enemy when their level become higher, then it is obvious everybody will answer "yes" and there won't need a poll. (because we get free extra content with it)


I m sure there will be this kind of reskin-upgraded monster at some point of the game, because they do it in PSO PSU PSPo2. (aka Vahra, Gohmon Bel-Panon vanda etc) In PSU, they just change it too early at level 50, so most people doesn't care to remember the form before change much.

Serephim
Sep 12, 2011, 01:23 AM
the game seems to be mission based once again, so it'll probably use the C-S mission rank method.

Not to mention, they went back with the dumb planet idea too, sooo...

kyuuketsuki
Sep 12, 2011, 01:35 AM
Not to mention, they went back with the dumb planet idea too, sooo...
What's wrong with the planet idea? It's pretty much a Phantasy Star staple since PS2. The issue with the planets in PSU was the implementation, not the idea. Unless it's the implementation you're talking about, but I didn't know we had much info about the way they're being implemented...

Serephim
Sep 12, 2011, 02:03 AM
yeah, implementation. I probably shouldn't doom it to PSU's failures though. The stage randomization already looks infinitely better than PSU's. It looks to take cues from PSO -- have a couple of staple rooms so you'll always recognize the AREA that you're in, but randomize the other areas so that you can not feel like you're running the same mission over and over.

You can't be completely random, that's just no fun. Gotta have those staple areas that stand out.

"En"
Sep 12, 2011, 08:52 AM
because that is what the topic says in big letter. It asked "Ultimate difficult yes or no" instead of "reskin enemy when level up yes or not"

The original post seems to suggest otherwise.

What kyuuketsuki said really hit the nail on the head. There will be those who expect Ultimate for the sake of unnecessary, rampant nostalgia. However, the rest of us who are in favour of an "Ultimate" mode (in its composition, not necessarily in name) credit our support to wanting a mode that distinguishes itself visually and statistically from the rest of the game. The latter group, being the majority. At least, for the sake of my faith in humanity, I hope that's the case.

As long as I'm posting here, I might also like to add that I wholeheartedly support the letter ranking system (C, B, A, S), but at the same time, I despised the poor planning it wrought in Phantasy Star Universe. C-S made sense. S2 was pushing it. By the time the S3 missions were rolled out, it was almost painful to watch. I'd take S/S2/S3 over Ultimate, Mega Ultimate and Super Ultimate, but it seems like the whole thing could just be avoided with appropriate planning and foresight.

Arika
Sep 12, 2011, 12:09 PM
Instead of C B A S S2 S3.
easier would be I II III IV V VI
or just use star (but they need to prepare space for at least up til 10 star in this case)

Serephim
Sep 12, 2011, 12:21 PM
It'll be difficult to avoid.

It really doesn't matter how they name it. I think the whole point is that the levels scale as you go closer to the final stage. Thats why Ultimate Mode worked.


But in PSU...there is no final stage. So they were pretty much forced to do C-S3.

BioWarrior
Sep 12, 2011, 12:32 PM
It's Normal Hard V.Hard and so on. In the video sega posted today it lists the difficulty as "normal" in the quest they select.

tkdyo
Sep 15, 2011, 12:53 PM
yes times infinity!!! The idea of completely reskinning the monsters/levels plus a big boost in difficulty was genius and this time I will actually have big groups of people to do it with! Unlike what I had to do by myself which was run in the room, shoot, run out again xD

Zorafim
Sep 15, 2011, 03:22 PM
Just realized, it was kinda wierd that PSU had both less randomizing and less recognizable check points. By the sounds of it, PSO2 is going to improve on both.

As far as an ultimate mode, I think everyone already said what needed to be said. If an ultimate difficulty is introduced, then it's going to end up like PSU did and try to find ways to jump the shark even further. So, perhaps, the best idea would be to update the area every major level cap? In other words, fight rats until lv50, then fight pigs until lv100, then fight wolves until 150, then fight buffalo until cap? I think the major draw of ultimate mode was that those same enemies we've been fighting all the sudden are much stronger, visually. So if we switch out enemies at major points in the game, it'd have the same effect, right? I mean, I don't want to fight the same enemies at cap as I am at the start of the game.

Kamen Rider Sting
Sep 17, 2011, 04:32 AM
I agree with the 3 planet fiasco as a staple for all Phantasy Star know how, they've been doing since the Mega Drive games. Dunno if they did that with the original game on the Master System in 1987, as for what monsters we fight I think it more depends on the EXP they dish out after the kill.

Like in old school PSO a Booma gave 5 EXP in Normal mode and a few 100 in Ultimate for their Ultimate counterpart. Maybe Normal, Hard and V. Hard would be good for now and maybe Ultimate for a future update(Maybe PSO2 V2, lol).

RemiusTA
Sep 17, 2011, 11:57 AM
Yeah, Phantasy Star had 3 planets as well.

In fact, IIRC all of 1-4 took place around the same 3-planet system. I believe Frieza had a date with one of them at some point though.