PSO2's current development stage: 50%

[Mizunos]

According to Shougai's latest issue (http://www.g-heaven.net/topics/2011/09/110918a.html), a pamphlet given out at TGS indicates that PSO2 is only 50% complete as of now. As many people pointed out, I believe they may release the game in early 2012.

[Geistritter]

That makes me feel a little better about my current misgivings, at least.

[•Col•]

Posting for the fourth time....


50% is probably more than what people think. It probably means most of the gameplay mechanics are close to being finished, and it's almost time to start adding in actual content.

And we've been expecting early 2012 for quite some time. Partly because they've been saying 2011 FISCAL year... Which ends around March-April 2012. Either way, we're only a few months away from PSO2's release.

[Vashyron]

And yet I still see them releasing it in 2011 anyway, seeing as how they released PSU Online with mostly everything locked out. Not like it mattered that the game was 'complete' or not when they went that route.

[sperle]

No matter when it's released we (US) won't see it till mid 2012. Diablo 3 will be out before pso2.

[Canard de Bain]

No matter when it's released we (US) won't see it till mid 2012. Diablo 3 will be out before pso2.

Relevance of D3 is what, exactly?

[moorebounce]

I believe it's further along than what Sega is actually telling us. Even in the alpha state PSO2 looks way better than PSU.

Either Sega told Sonic Team to get their crap together or they hired better programmers. Either way PSO2 looks like it's gonna rock.

[Enforcer MKV]

I still have some reservations, honestly. It's not that I don't believe in Sega. I do. It's just......prior experience dictates caution in this case.

It's true, PSO2 looks like it's going to be amazing, but I'm worried that Sega may screw us over.

I don't want them to pull a failcom and shaft us.

[landman]

Partly because they've been saying 2011 FISCAL year...
They have never talked about a release date.

[Blueblur]

All they ever said was it's coming this year. The word 'fiscal' was never actually used by Sega.

[•Col•]

They have never talked about a release date.

ORLY?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_QaadCHNNU

And blueblur is probably right. Either way, it will almost definitely be released 2011 fiscal year... Perhaps even in the next 3 months.

[Alnet]

Either Sega told Sonic Team to get their crap together or they hired better programmers. Either way PSO2 looks like it's gonna rock.
I think that Sonic Team isn't developing this game. I don't recall seeing a Sonic Team logo on any of the trailers, though I could be mistaken.

[Canard de Bain]

I think that Sonic Team isn't developing this game. I don't recall seeing a Sonic Team logo on any of the trailers, though I could be mistaken.
A turd named an apple is still a turd.

[Anon_Fire]

A turd named an apple is still a turd.

I don't recall seeing a Sonic Team logo in all the trailers we've seen so far.

[RenzokukenZ]

It's not Sonic Team. It's a new team consisting mostly of PSU developers and Sakai's team from PSP2/I.

This was established early on.

[Cayenne]

It's not Sonic Team. It's a new team consisting mostly of PSU developers and Sakai's team from PSP2/I.

This was established early on.

really?

That kinda...bums me out...

Do they at least have a member from the original PSO team to help with some input?

[Angelo]

really?

That kinda...bums me out...

Do they at least have a member from the original PSO team to help with some input?

The fact that it bums you out proves that you've probably never touched PSP2/i

I have a lot of faith in the team after those games.

[Randomness]

The fact that it bums you out proves that you've probably never touched PSP2/i

I have a lot of faith in the team after those games.

If PSU had launched with PSP2/i's system, it would have been excellent (FOs were smashed into dust in PSP2, but they fixed it in Infinity I hear. Otherwise, the games are excellent)

The trailers look nice so far. I assume the other 50% is mainly content generation, polish, etc. The actual game code appears to be mostly completed.

[RenzokukenZ]

Do they at least have a member from the original PSO team to help with some input?

Sakai himself, and a few others. Although honestly, the only input I see are the nostalgic remnants of the classes, the landscape, and several more familiar faces and sounds. That alone counts as a minority in what PSO2 has to offer, since the rest is either new or improved upon from the previous games.

It's all for the better.

[Cayenne]

The fact that it bums you out proves that you've probably never touched PSP2/i

I have a lot of faith in the team after those games.
I've tried PSU, then PSP, now I'm on PSP2 and you're telling me to have faith in the team that finally got it right the forth time around? To me it seems like PSU could of been PSP2/i in the beginning if they knew how to make, correctly test and re-tweak the game

That's what I'm afraid of to be honest. They will make PSO2 into a good game no doubt but willit be the best it can possibly be to begin with or just do the same thing with PSU?

[RenzokukenZ]

If I recall, it took PSO 5 games (V.1, V.2, Ep. 1 & 2, Plus, and Blue Burst) to get to where it is now.

Point is, PSO2 will have its screw ups in the beginning. It's the nature of all games. If you have it in your mindset that the game will be absolutely flawless on day one, you are fooling yourself.

[Cayenne]

If I recall, it took PSO 5 games (V.1, V.2, Ep. 1 & 2, Plus, and Blue Burst) to get to where it is now.

Point is, PSO2 will have its screw ups in the beginning. It's the nature of all games. If you have it in your mindset that the game will be absolutely flawless on day one, you are fooling yourself.

Wrong dude.

Original PSO: Great game to begin with.
V.2: increased level cap and more weapons, maybe fixed some glitches? Gameplay unchanged.
Ep. 1 & 2: Added more to the story, new areas, new enemies, new rares, gameplay unchanged.
Ep. III: Card game? Don't know why they did that.
Plus: I know nothing of, (never even heard about it til now)
Blue Burst: Even more area, more to the story, new enemies, always adding new rares with the already included new ones, more missions, quest, just more of everything, GAMEPLAY UNCHANGED

They knew they made a winning game and just gave their players MORE of it, not changing the core mechanics of why this game is fun.

PSU and it's other renditions are attempts to make it a good game and finally got it right after how many years?

The first PSU was just a game that had PSO elements and no real though put into it.

[Randomness]

Wrong dude.

Original PSO: Great game to begin with.
V.2: increased level cap and more weapons, maybe fixed some glitches? Gameplay unchanged.
Ep. 1 & 2: Added more to the story, new areas, new enemies, new rares, gameplay unchanged.
Ep. III: Card game? Don't know why they did that.
Plus: I know nothing of, (never even heard about it til now)
Blue Burst: Even more area, more to the story, new enemies, always adding new rares with the already included new ones, more missions, quest, just more of everything, GAMEPLAY UNCHANGED

They knew they made a winning game and just gave their players MORE of it, not changing the core mechanics of why this game is fun.

PSU and it's other renditions are attempts to make it a good game and finally got it right after how many years?

The first PSU was just a game that had PSO elements and no real though put into it.

Episode 1+2 (Or maybe it was V2?) had drastic overhauls of the numbers on basically everything. So call it two versions or so.

[Cayenne]

The gameplay was the same though, if they did change it then I didn't notice it and that's a good thing.

[Zyrusticae]

Wait, so you think they didn't learn from their mistakes, that PSP2 is only decent because they iterated on PSU, and that there is absolutely no way they could possibly have actually learned a thing or two from the development of that and PSP2i?

Because, really, at this point, it seems kind of silly to be doubting them so heavily. PSU was a failure more because of the console it was debuted on and less the development team, if you give it more than a few seconds of thought.

[RemiusTA]

If I recall, it took PSO 5 games (V.1, V.2, Ep. 1 & 2, Plus, and Blue Burst) to get to where it is now.

Point is, PSO2 will have its screw ups in the beginning. It's the nature of all games. If you have it in your mindset that the game will be absolutely flawless on day one, you are fooling yourself.

PSO =/= PSU. They are completely different games. PSU took very little from PSO's gameplay systems. There were so many problems with PSU though that it'd take forever to start listing them.

[Cayenne]

Wait, so you think they didn't learn from their mistakes, that PSP2 is only decent because they iterated on PSU, and that there is absolutely no way they could possibly have actually learned a thing or two from the development of that and PSP2i?

Because, really, at this point, it seems kind of silly to be doubting them so heavily.

PSP2 is decent, not really fun but I'm still playing it because it has a few things that keeps me playing.

They did learn from their mistakes but it took so many installments and that's just bad game development. It looks like they didn't know what they were doing in the first place (did they even test PSU to see if it was fun?). PSP2/i (from what I've read and heard) is actually worth playing and more than just die hard fans like it. I'm doubting them based on their current and past actions. Most of the PSU team's history isn't that great so yes I have lots of doubt (even though PSO2 is looking so great but yet to play it). I want PSO2 to be great, really great to the point that everything I've said about them will go in the trash and shut me up.


PSU was a failure more because of the console it was debuted on and less the development team, if you give it more than a few seconds of thought.
PSU is also on PC and you're saying the console versions killed it? How about blaming the game itself?

[RenzokukenZ]

I never stated they were the same. I simply showed that even PSO had new versions of itself come out, each time with fixes to the game mechanics (some small, others too big to ignore)



PSU is also on PC and you're saying the console versions killed it? How about blaming the game itself?

PSU was made for the PS2 and was later ported to the PC. The concept that it was developed primarily for a late-gen console is what doomed it the most. Or rather, the first of several errors.

It's that very reason that PSO2 was announced as PC only.

[Cayenne]

Also, you want a perfect example of how to ruin a game and worry about fixing the game later on thinking it will be ok?

Tabula Rasa. I've played that game a little more than a year after it was released AFTER all the major things that was wrong with it were fixed. I had fun playing that game but it was too late, the launch was a failure, players quickly left it as fast as they joined and the team did everything they can to make it a good game and they did but BAM, shut down.

Worrying about improving the game later on will only please the players that fully support the game or new players. How many other games are out there that are always trying to be better than the rest, they want our money in exchange for a good game experience.

If SEGA slacks off in making PSO2 and ends up being a decent game and not a great one, it won't last long. PSO introduced a new game experience and if people see that their next installment can't bring the same or even a different but better experience, then it's doomed from the start.

[Angelo]

PSU is also on PC and you're saying the console versions killed it? How about blaming the game itself?

I'm probably in the minority as someone that actually enjoyed playing PSU.

I also think it's safe to say that the PS2 did hold the game back. It wasn't until after the game became PC, Japan-only recently that the game started getting genuine content updates instead of trickling and hiding data that was already on the client. The second they didn't have to worry about the PS2 version they basically turned PC PSU into PSP2.

Personally, I feel the series belongs on consoles, but if having PSO2 be a PC-exclusive means quicker updates and easier development then I'm all for it as long as I can use a gamepad.

[Canard de Bain]

I'm probably in the minority as someone that actually enjoyed playing PSU.

I also think it's safe to say that the PS2 did hold the game back. It wasn't until after the game became PC, Japan-only recently that the game started getting genuine content updates instead of trickling and hiding data that was already on the client. The second they didn't have to worry about the PS2 version they basically turned PC PSU into PSP2.

I hated the item crafting and raising PMs. :<

[Cayenne]

I never stated they were the same. I simply showed that even PSO had new versions of itself come out, each time with fixes to the game mechanics (some small, others too big to ignore)



PSU was made for the PS2 and was later ported to the PC. The concept that it was developed primarily for a late-gen console is what doomed it the most. Or rather, the first of several errors.

It's that very reason that PSO2 was announced as PC only.

That just seems like an excuse, PSU could have been a great game regardless of what platform it was released on. Playstation 2 was the perfect platform to make an Action RPG, I can only see limitation in maybe communicating with other players and some online features but rest was their fault. The Dreamcast pulled it off, why couldn't the PS2?

[RemiusTA]

PSU was made for the PS2 and was later ported to the PC. The concept that it was developed primarily for a late-gen console is what doomed it the most. Or rather, the first of several errors.

It's that very reason that PSO2 was announced as PC only.

Everything about that game suggested it was built for PCs.


Please guys, don't start the PC vs Console shit. It's the geekiest, stupidest, most retarded argument you can partake in, trumped only by the Console vs Console arguments.



That just seems like an excuse, PSU could have been a great game regardless of what platform it was released on. Playstation 2 was the perfect platform to make an Action RPG, I can only see limitation in maybe communicating with other players and some online features but rest was their fault. The Dreamcast pulled it off, why couldn't the PS2?

Like i said, there was so much wrong with PSU that it'd take forever to list them. I personally enjoyed the little PSU i could stomach on my PS2 before going to the far superior PC version. But the only reason i saw the PC version as superior is because it ran at a constant, smooth framerate, and overall looked much better. Well, that and being able to easily prnt scr my screenshots.


I personally will always view PSO as a Console MMORPG -- thats what it started off as, afterall. However it's pretty obvious that PSU was not made with ONLY the PS2 in mind -- there is no way it was, as everything on the PS2 version was terribly downgraded, from graphics to the texture detail on the weapons.


I'm probably in the minority as someone that actually enjoyed playing PSU.No.....im pretty sure we all did. It's just in hindsight, everyone notices that PSU was not as good a game as PSO was. Well, in the eyes of everyone who enjoyed PSO, anyway.

PSU had to grow on me. PSO hooked me within the first 5 minutes of playing the game when my friend randomly introduced me to it, and it kept me way longer. IMO, PSO was just designed far, FAR better than PSU was, which is not surprising in the slightest because Sonic Team back then used to make very innovative and lovable games.


PSU wasn't bad. I just don't have nearly as many fun memories playing it; i did get a couple however, and I wont look over them. It just didn't have the same feeling PSO garnered, and because of that, many aspects of the game were simply disappointing.

[Zyrusticae]

That seems kinda short-sighted.

The PS2 version suffered because there was no built-in hard drive. Hence the absurd gating of content that everybody knew was on the disk because it could be accessed in the single-player game. They also had to cut a lot of features that couldn't be finished in time for release, though I don't recall exactly what those were - if someone who was around could remind us, I'd appreciate it. Mind, there were definitely some questionable executive decisions - like the cutting of dynamic music, among other things...

The original PSO had the same issue of the lack of a hard drive, hence why there were so many new disc releases. However, they didn't gate content like they did for PSU, and I imagine that helped things immensely. And of course, there's the fact that it was the new game on the block, practically creating a whole new genre in and of itself.

And the game was built from the ground-up for the Dreamcast. Hell, IIRC, it was a launch title - or if not (was a long time ago for me), at least a flagship title.

If PSU were at least not shackled by the PS2's lack of a hard drive, we could have seen some seriously substantial updates, possibly enough to save it here in the West. Unfortunately, their dropping of PS2 support came too late. A damn shame, really.

Thankfully, I don't see the same thing happening to the PC-exclusive PSO2. It just ain't gonna happen, man. Unless they somehow manage to massively cock things up again (doubtful), it's going to be quite a ride.


Everything about that game suggested it was built for PCs.

Please guys, don't start the PC vs Console shit. It's the geekiest, stupidest, most retarded argument you can partake in, trumped only by the Console vs Console arguments.
I love how you state things like they're the most obvious, most undeniably factual things in the whole of the known universe.

Even though it's really just, like, your opinion, man.

[Enforcer MKV]

Though, to be fair, the whole Console vs. PC argument has been grating. For years.

Anyway, on topic. I'm cautiously optimistic about PSO2. I know people have their reservations about the team, since it's composed of people who made PSU, but the fact that they've been learning what fans liked and didn't like this whole time really just benefits PSO2's development. They know to add in the block, roll, etc. Things that were added later on. And since the game is only halfway there, that means they have time to add in more features and options that make the game more enjoyable.

True, they could royally screw this up. True, many people are probably watching, ready to blow the whistle at the tiniest thing that seems "out of place." But it's also true that the team now has a lot more experience with this franchise than when PSU was originally released. As has been stated before, They've had time to learn what the fans want.

My first entry into the PS series was PSU. I loved it. I stopped playing WoW for it (Though, admittedly, WoW has been stale for a while in my eyes.) It was a fun game, despite it's flaws. And PSO2 looks, to me at least, to be the things I liked about PSU, and PSZ, for that matter, but with many of the flaws and bad systems removed.

/end Sermon. :lol:

[Cayenne]

The PS2 version suffered because there was no built-in hard drive.

Just stop.

A hard drive would've NEVER saved PSU.I played PSU on the PC first, a year AFTER it was released, plenty of time to fix the game and add more content and I thought it was crap AND it had a hard drive. Humm, your theory is wrong.

Content is completely different from gameplay mechanics. You think adding more shit into a game that was bad to start with would've made it better instead of fixing what was wrong with it in the first place?

Drop the whole hardware limitation crap, why don't you just admit the game itself is why it wasn't good?


True, they could royally screw this up.
Even you have doubts. You are worried a bit that they are gonna mess up something that you care about. Everyone here cares about PSO or PSU in some way and when game companies disappoint their fans, their reputation is hurt, loss of profits, loss of fans, and future games won't sell as good. One game can do that much damage to a game company. *cough* FFIX *cough*

[Zyrusticae]

You really should realize that the PS2 and PC versions were intrinsically linked up until they dropped support for the PS2 version some time ago. Of course the PC version did not get any special updates - the PS2 and PC version both shared the exact same servers, and thus any updates that the PC had that involved new assets of any kind would not work correctly on the PS2 at all. Absolutely everything that came to the PC HAD to ALSO go to the PS2 (there's a reason my sig says PC/PS2).

Hence why the game mechanics did not get any actual changes until AotI was released. Yeah, they managed to get the changes to trickle down to the original PS2 version of PSU... only with missing effects and items and missions. Hmm, interesting, if the PS2 really had nothing to do with the game's problems, why did they have to release a physical disk to get basic game mechanic changes in?

Of course, it is true, the devs were probably poorly organized/understaffed/just plain lost at this point in time, seeing as how they could have at least fixed a myriad other problems that didn't require the reworking of effects and animations such that the HD-less PS2 could play better. Yet still, these would have been far easier to fix had they just been able to rely on players having an actual hard drive. Why did they not release an update akin to the Guardian Update before dropping support for the PS2? I get the distinct impression that a lot of time was spent with the devs wringing their hands over how to get over the lack of an ability to just download updates straight to a hard drive.

Seriously, you DO realize how much of an incredibly harsh limitation that is, don't you? Having no hard drive, for an online game that relies on frequent updates to stay alive, is akin to attempting to do a bicycle race with one wheel missing. Quite frankly, I'm amazed it stayed alive for as long as it did.

Dropping the handicap is a major boon, pure and simple. Though it's worth noting that they could have done this with the PS3 as well (not the 360 for obvious Microsoft-related limitations) thanks to its own built-in hard drive. I'm not arguing about PCs vs. consoles here, I'm arguing hard drive vs. no hard drive. Veeerrry big difference. Give it some thought, yeah?

(Note: No, I am not defending the direction of the storyline that is, quite frankly, amazingly juvenile, nor the cutting of features that worked in PSO just fine. The game would still have been much better off if it had at least been on a console with a built-in hard drive, even with the questionable executive decision-making.)

[Cayenne]

Yes, you are right about adding a harddrive can make a game better but I'm not talking about that at all, never was to begin with.

I'm talking about the game the first day it came out. How it played TO BEGIN WITH, how players felt the moment they popped that disk into their PS2 saw the CORE game for what it was. First impressions are everything in a game and PSU didn't deliver.

If the game was FUN to begin with then maybe it could of been something completely bigger and expand the past PSO fan base with new players and more to love. From there more content and the other stuff you said would have improved the experience even more, maybe to the point of not even considering making PSO2.

The PSU team was doing everything they can to make it a good decent game and finally did with PSP2/i, a game that is good on it's own without needing the extra updates, DLC, and online play, playing with people online and adding more content just makes the already fun experience more enjoyable. You can't rely on future content if the core of the game is lacking unless you fix why it's lacking.

PSU just wasn't that good to begin with.

[ShinMaruku]

The PSP and PSP2i team is NOT the psu team. This is why I am glad that they are stuck on Sonic Generations and having terrible demos.

[Cayenne]

The PSP and PSP2i team is NOT the psu team. This is why I am glad that they are stuck on Sonic Generations and having terrible demos.

You serious? I didn't know that. I'm laughing so hard right now! That explains the improvements.

Ok, now I'm more confident than ever about PSO2. thank you for that Shin, you've made my day.

[Zyrusticae]

Well, okay, then. Yes, the game at launch was not all it was cracked up to be. This could be for many reasons, including and not limited to: poor scheduling (rushed release), poor management, poor executive decision-making (like whoever decided to make the campaign story an incredibly cheesy bit of animu-chasing narrative, only they used the absolute worst of anime as examples to follow), a lack of good staff, or even issues related to the game's budget. Or, yes, even, quite possibly, having to wrestle with the PS2 hardware (though given the game's abysmal performance on PC, it seems that whoever was programming the engine was just incompetent to begin with).

From what I've seen so far, that is not true for the dev team of PSO2. In particular, we have already seen them make a number of very good decisions, including the addition (and execution of) jumping, dashing, blocking, custom PA chains, and third-person style shooting. That alone says a lot for the new management. Beyond that, a lot of the staff has been shuffled around since the release of PSU, and even beyond that, a lot of the staff that was on PSU has learned considerably from the experience.

So, no, I don't share your concern that the developer's credentials mean the game could very easily end up sucking terribly. I am concerned that the game might go with a freemium business model (as seen in current JP PSU), or that the game will release prematurely (and thus be short on content), or that the game ends up with the ridiculously lengthy time between updates from JP -> USA. But the devs sucking the... stuff, yet again, is hardly on my big list of worries.

Oh, and I am still incredibly optimistic about the game's future potential for massive content and/or game-mechanic-changing updates, thanks to the massive hard drive space the developers now have access to.

[Alexvrb]

Tabula Rasa. I've played that game a little more than a year after it was released AFTER all the major things that was wrong with it were fixed. I had fun playing that game but it was too late, the launch was a failure, players quickly left it as fast as they joined and the team did everything they can to make it a good game and they did but BAM, shut down.I played it at launch. I really liked a lot of things about it, especially the setting, the weaponry, and the exploration - looking for ancient runes and whatnot. It had it's share of problems, but they weren't insurmountable in my opinion. But the issues lead to the biggest problem - insufficient userbase. For an MMO like TR where people are naturally spread all over the place, this is a severe problem.
You really should realize that the PS2 and PC versions were intrinsically linked up until they dropped support for the PS2 version some time ago. Of course the PC version did not get any special updates - the PS2 and PC version both shared the exact same servers, and thus any updates that the PC had that involved new assets of any kind would not work correctly on the PS2 at all. Absolutely everything that came to the PC HAD to ALSO go to the PS2 (there's a reason my sig says PC/PS2).

Hence why the game mechanics did not get any actual changes until AotI was released. Yeah, they managed to get the changes to trickle down to the original PS2 version of PSU... only with missing effects and items and missions. Hmm, interesting, if the PS2 really had nothing to do with the game's problems, why did they have to release a physical disk to get basic game mechanic changes in?I agree with you, and there are also additional PS2 limitations beyond the hard drive. So even if the HDD accessory was mandatory, there were other problems. Primarily memory limitations, but there was also raw performance issues. You can usually work around those by having a lesser version of everything you release, but there are still limits. You're working with chains holding you back. Areas can only be but so large, only so many enemies at once, only display x number of weapons/PAs/techniques at a time, etc.

Also (as you pointed out), there's the need to support two very different platforms, and keep them synchronized and compatible. This almost doubles the programming and testing efforts (though they can share many other resources). The PS2 by that point was decidedly last-gen, and they were simply going after it for its large userbase (another reason it didn't require the HDD add-on). Going PC-only isn't an all-cure, but it should help them quite a bit. I have moderate faith in them given their latest work and what we've seen so far. I think it will be good, at least good enough for me to play and have fun.

[ShinMaruku]

You serious? I didn't know that. I'm laughing so hard right now! That explains the improvements.

Ok, now I'm more confident than ever about PSO2. thank you for that Shin, you've made my day.

See this is why I am cautiously optimistic about PSO2 the less that Sonic Team is on it the better I feel.

[landman]

ORLY?

[ Phantasy Star Online 2 ] TGS trailer - High Quality - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_QaadCHNNU)

And blueblur is probably right. Either way, it will almost definitely be released 2011 fiscal year... Perhaps even in the next 3 months.
For me this could perfectly mean that we were going to see the game in 2011, and we did, not a release date.

[Ezodagrom]

About PSU poor launch, Sonic Team was in a really bad shape in the year of PSU release, just look at the Sonic game released on that year (Sonic 06).

[NoiseHERO]

I don't see all the drama in a release date...

2012 is only 3 months away...

[•Col•]

For me this could perfectly mean that we were going to see the game in 2011, and we did, not a release date.

2011 is a date, brah. :l

[Cayenne]

I played it at launch. I really liked a lot of things about it, especially the setting, the weaponry, and the exploration - looking for ancient runes and whatnot. It had it's share of problems, but they weren't insurmountable in my opinion. But the issues lead to the biggest problem - insufficient userbase. For an MMO like TR where people are naturally spread all over the place, this is a severe problem.

I cried a little when I heard it was shutting down, I didn't even attempt to play it when it was free because I know I would get more into the game and be left with a void at the end.

@ Zyrusticae: All I'm trying to say is hardware can be blamed for limiting game visuals, size, speed, etc. but HOW the game is played is up to the creative minds of the team making the game. No matter what platform is was launched on, if the same game mechanics was implemented into a PC launch, PS2 Hard drive requirement launch, X-Box, etc., it still would have bombed because how the game played (by that I mean how you fight) would be the same.


See this is why I am cautiously optimistic about PSO2 the less that Sonic Team is on it the better I feel.
I feel like a big weight was lifted after you said that, again, thank you lol.

[RemiusTA]

I love how you state things like they're the most obvious, most undeniably factual things in the whole of the known universe.

Even though it's really just, like, your opinion, man.


Whatever. The facts would weigh against you QUITE heavily were you to suggest the game was built from the ground up for the PS2. Storage space wasn't the only issue PSU had with the PS2.

If anything, they were built with both systems in mind.



(http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2686033#post2686033) See this is why I am cautiously optimistic about PSO2 the less that Sonic Team is on it the better I feel.
I think it's funny that you believe there's an actual difference. IIRC PSO2's staff is comprised primarily of older Sonic Team staff.



From what I've seen so far, that is not true for the dev team of PSO2. In particular, we have already seen them make a number of very good decisions, including the addition (and execution of) jumping, dashing, blocking, custom PA chains, and third-person style shooting. That alone says a lot for the new management. Beyond that, a lot of the staff has been shuffled around since the release of PSU, and even beyond that, a lot of the staff that was on PSU has learned considerably from the experience. The same could have been said about PSU with multiple photon art combos, off-hand equipment, a synthesis system, a more "fleshed out" elemental system and tons of technics. Little do we know, all of PSO2's mechanics can come back with a vengeance to bite us in the ass worse than PSU's did.


Something as little as the weapons in the alpha not requiring an "extra attack" button to use it's elemental properties could instantly shoot weapons back down to PSU status in terms of being primarily useless except in certain situations. Also, such neglect of a simple feature (or button, if you will) would also, once again, limit PSO2's rare weapons to have automatic "special features" to them, instead of PSO's ability to script specific attacks to certain rare weapons by using the Extra Attack button.

Nobody else was urked at the sight of that ranger using the already-god-tier-at-lv-1 rifle to freeze enemies from afar?

[Anon_Fire]

@Remius: Seems you're afraid that PSO2 won't live up to your expectations.

[Zyrusticae]

I'm sorry, but PSU's features were never that impressive even from the get-go.

If you actually gave it any thought at all (though I will note that this is obviously with the benefit of hindsight), none of the listed features actually added depth to the combat system. You could easily see it from a mile away.

Photon arts alone are a far cry from being given the ability to jump and dash, as well as the ability to infinitely chain attacks, charge attacks, and create custom combos. Or even being able to shoot with a proper third-person camera.

And I don't care about extra attack, so I'm good there. :p

[RemiusTA]

@Remius: Seems you're afraid that PSO2 won't live up to your expectations.

Im afraid the game will just be plagued with the same issues with alot of games these days. Great base idea, but no foresight in the follow through.




If you actually gave it any thought at all (though I will note that this is obviously with the benefit of hindsight), none of the listed features actually added depth to the combat system. You could easily see it from a mile away. ....I don't know how to reply to this comment. Just....what? I dont eve-




Photon arts alone are a far cry from being given the ability to jump and dash, as well as the ability to infinitely chain attacks, charge attacks, and create custom combos. Or even being able to shoot with a proper third-person camera. Easily infinitely chaining attacks is almost always an indication of zero foresight. Im just going to ASSUME you're talking about that step-cancel ability shown in the alpha. That shit was terrible. It doesn't add depth to the game because it's obvious that it was just an exploit -- therefore whatever you gain from it, you're losing from somewhere else.


Being able to jump and dash doesn't add much to the gameplay unless they force it to. Honestly, what's the difference between using a photon art that carries you into the air, and having a muscle-memory combo set for every enemy you attack that consists of attack -> launch -> 3 attacks -> PA? It does make exploration more fun, though. But once again, the stages have to be made for exploration to be interesting. Dont know about you. I thought PSU's abilities were cool from the start. It was only after some good hours of gameplay that i noticed it was a terrible idea.



The Extra Attack button isnt important because PSO had it. It's important because it's important. It gives you an entire new outlet to add another dimension to the weapons and gameplay. If all the weapons have are Attack, Defend and the different Photon Arts, this isn't going to be much different than PSU in the long run. Without it, you have a Fire-element Sword. You swing, it does fire damage, regardless of whether you want it to or not. If it has an elemental status effect to it (burn, poison, incapatication, freeze, ect) then you run the risk of weapons who can use it being easily exploited.

However, WITH that simple button, you're able to mix in Normal attacks, Extra attacks and Photon Arts. NOW, when you press the button to do your fire Fire-Element attack, the programmers can design the weapon to have different properties -- maybe the Fire attack has lower damage, but high chance to cause Burn? Maybe it does no damage, but blows the enemy back? There are tons of possibilities that you have that you didn't before because you ran the risk of ruining the function of the weapon.


It's called "Emergence". Look it up sometime. PSO was chocked full of it -- PSU was not in the slightest....PSP2 either, to be completely honest. This is why i hold PSO in higher esteem than PSU and its offspring -- the designers of PSO were just obviously much better at that concept, which is why PSO stayed interesting much longer than PSU did to alot of people.

[Zorafim]

Dont know about you. I thought PSU's abilities were cool from the start. It was only after some good hours of gameplay that i noticed it was a terrible idea.

"Whoa, this is cool! I can do awesome powerful combos against enemies!"

"Whoa, this is bad! These combos leave little room for dodging, and the enemies have a ton of health!"


"Whoa, this is cool! I can power up the techniques I use the most simply by using them!"

"Whoa, this is bad! I need to spend hours pounding on punching bags to use my new abilities!"


"Whoa, this is cool! I'm encouraged to do well with a grading system!"

"Whoa, this is bad! The grading system causes people to argue, and trivialized exploration down to a necessity!"


"Whoa, this is cool! I can buy all these items to better perform!"

"Whoa, this is bad! All these items trivializes damage taken!"


"Whoa, this is cool! I can shoot a specific part of the enemy in third person to do more damage!"

... What? That was actually pretty neat. I'm glad they included it.

[RemiusTA]

"Whoa, this is cool! I can do awesome powerful combos against enemies!"

"Whoa, this is bad! These combos leave little room for dodging, and the enemies have a ton of health!"


"Whoa, this is cool! I can power up the techniques I use the most simply by using them!"

"Whoa, this is bad! I need to spend hours pounding on punching bags to use my new abilities!"

Pretty much. My thoughts exactly.




"Whoa, this is cool! I can shoot a specific part of the enemy in third person to do more damage!"

... What? That was actually pretty neat. I'm glad they included it.Well...yeah, but it was more like :


"Whoa, this is cool! I can shoot a specific part of the enemy in third person to do more damage!"

"Eguh, the collision on the weakpoints are confusing as balls / None of the enemies have weakpoints / 1st person shooting mechanics are wonky / 1st person + Go Vahara = Suicide!"

[ShinMaruku]

[QUOTE=RemiusTA;2686236]W
I think it's funny that you believe there's an actual difference. IIRC PSO2's staff is comprised primarily of older Sonic Team staff.

What I want to see if what spread of it is the PSP2i team rather than just Sonic Team. Since it's the older staff maybe we'll get some quality because them sonic games don't give me confidence.
If it's the PSP team I'm good
any of the old psu guys we gonna have some problems unless the producer and directors know what quality and act like dicks to enforce it.

[Cayenne]

I'm sorry, but PSU's features were never that impressive even from the get-go.
Wait, you said this?

[HappierWorlds]

All they ever said was it's coming this year. The word 'fiscal' was never actually used by Sega.
EXACTLY.
Imagine how one word can totally change things.