Destructoid's first impressions.

[AnnabellaRenee87]

http://www.destructoid.com/tgs-phantasy-star-online-2-still-has-a-way-to-go-211703.phtml

What do you all think?

Oh look Joystiq's impressions. http://www.joystiq.com/2011/09/18/phantasy-star-online-2-preview-back-in-action/

[Angelo]

Yeah, I take everything a western gaming site says about a japanese game post-2006 with a spoon of salt.

[ShadowDragon28]

I see no reason I should give two pennies worth a damn about the opinions of cocky, pretentious writers on these sites.

I noticed they didn't say *anything* about how very extensive the character creation system is, barely any mention or elaboration on the fact there are 12 player multiparty areas, and never mentioned the dragon boss was in a awesome volcanic cave and that like in the FOREST (inaccurately refered to as "grasslands") with places you have to jump to to get to higher ground or to avoid eviromental hazards like streams of lava. None of that was even mentioned. >:-/

[FluffyFox]

geeze, even a drop of criticism and rabid fanboys jump on it immediately :P

When I read the reviews it didn't sound like they were bashing the game, it just sounded like they felt the game was missing a lot and it's really unfinished... probably because, I don't know, IT'S NOT FUCKING FINISHED :O :O :O

So, chill guys. Better reviews will come around once Sega steps up their game and gets closer to launch.

[RemiusTA]

PSO is a very niche kind of game. Expect reviewers to sound like retards.

Just take it with a grain of salt and keep it moving.

[Canard de Bain]

PSO is a very niche kind of game. Expect reviewers to sound like retards.

Just take it with a grain of salt and keep it moving.

Only as niche as Diablo.

[Vashyron]

Eh, most of the criticism there sounds fair.

Looks like this topic will show who the 'fanboys' are.

[Canard de Bain]

Eh, most of the criticism there sounds fair.

Looks like this topic will show who the 'fanboys' are.

No u!

[Selphea]

Destructoid makes a lot of unsubstantiated claims, like "Everything about this game just feels kind of off, from the movement to the enemy collision." - How does it feel off? Also, "The sense of speed and weight didn’t really capture the character's build" - The reviewer wouldn't be saying that if hehad a better understanding of Japanese culture, specifically, Mecha anime, where robots the size of a small building can do mid-air splits and 540 degree spinning kicks. There's a few others I don't feel like pointing out, but overall I don't think the Destructoid review holds much weight.

Joystiq's review is fair enough though. Went from the "action game" angle and elaborated on the action-y aspects. Did a pretty good job at describing them too - no sudden random claims of "RAWR MY JUMPING FEELS 'OFF' BECAUSE I SAIZ IT R OFF TROLOLOL"

[GCoffee]

To be fair, as I stated on destructoid aswell, PSO never has been a game that explained its mechanics, and neither is PSO2. This journalist who never saw of this game before now gets to play it for a short 15 minutes? Of course he won't understand what the fuck is going on.
I have seen alpha videos that made the game seem like the absolute opposite of fun, simply because the players hardly knew how to control his character. And those weren't first runs. Think this journalist was able to do any better in this short amount of time? Heck, the camera alone will have given plenty of trouble for him.

Oh, and the character creater was absent from the TGS demo, aka pre-created characters. Way to not impress with PSO2's most impressive feature yet.

[Cayenne]

I like that fact that you can't immediately pick up the controls an start wailing on baddies, it shows that there is some sort of depth to the controls and it's not just simple point and press x.

Keep this in mind, the person at IGN who reviewed Diablo 2 bashed it bad because that was his first experience with it and the person that review the expansion give it a very good score because he "knew" what Diablo was about.

Ignore what this chode said about PSO2.

[Kirin^^]

He compares the game to a cheesy korean F2P. I understood why he said that, I felt the same way from a couple of the videos

[amtalx]

It seems like everyone is getting pretty defensive... Personally, I though the Destructoid preview was pretty refreshing. It's nice to hear an opinion from someone that isn't battered and deep fried in a decade of bias. Most posters on this site, myself included, are heavily invested in PS or at least were at one point. It can be difficult to see the flaws in something when you've become accustomed to them. Sometimes it takes an untrained eye to point them out.

[•Col•]

I see no reason I should give two pennies worth a damn about the opinions of cocky, pretentious writers on these sites.

I noticed they didn't say *anything* about how very extensive the character creation system is, barely any mention or elaboration on the fact there are 12 player multiparty areas, and never mentioned the dragon boss was in a awesome volcanic cave and that like in the FOREST (inaccurately refered to as "grasslands") with places you have to jump to to get to higher ground or to avoid eviromental hazards like streams of lava. None of that was even mentioned. >:-/

Probably because there wasn't any character creation in the demo?

Anyway, I thought destructoid's view is fair enough. Probably didn't fully understand a few aspects of the game completely, but yeah, I thought the way the writer felt was rather legitimate and I could see someone feeling that way about PSO2.


It seems like everyone is getting pretty defensive... Personally, I though the Destructoid preview was pretty refreshing. It's nice to hear an opinion from someone that isn't battered and deep fried in a decade of bias. Most posters on this site, myself included, are heavily invested in PS or at least were at one point. It can be difficult to see the flaws in something when you've become accustomed to them. Sometimes it takes an untrained eye to point them out.

^I'm with this guy.

EDIT: Decided I'm gonna break down some of the negative stuff said in the Destructoid article...

"After many ports, sequels and a card game, I stopped following the series and chose to remember only the Dreamcast days."

This was a rather negative statement in my opinion, and made the writer sound like one of those "PSO ONRY" people... But okay, whatevz.

"For the demo, I played the role of some sort of robot class that could jet pack around and glide across terrain. The sense of speed and weight didn’t really capture the character's build, which took away some of the enjoyment of the character design. This is a work of progress but it's these sort of details that cheapened the series to feel like a Korean free-to-play multiplayer RPG in my eyes."

This is kind of a personal opinion of his... I mean, I think the Cast gliding animations look awesome, and I'm sure many would agree with me. But again, it's a legitimate viewpoint.

"The game’s lock-on targeting system is fairly confusing, but you can also go into aiming mode which feels a bit like a broken Resident Evil 4 (maybe Mindjack would be a better comparison)."

Again, another legitimate viewpoint... Maybe he didn't fully understand the different camera views fully... I know I've watched a couple Alpha test videos where the player would (probably unknowingly) leave it in TPS mode the entire time... Even when using a sword. It looks pretty disorienting when using TPS mode when you're not using a ranged weapon... And even after the statement, the guy said it did make for some cool moments however...

"Everything about this game just feels kind of off, from the movement to the enemy collision. This is only the Alpha build (which some lucky Japanese fans will soon get their hands on), but the demo felt a bit underwhelming to me."

The only thing I would have liked if he elaborated what exactly felt off, but... Meh. Again though, don't see how what he's saying is blasphemy; it's just his personal opinion. The guy did skip over PSU after all, so I don't think he has quite as low expectations as some of us other Dreamcast PSO players, haha...


Anyway, Vash totally called it. Anyone who raged/rages over the Destructoid article is a blind fanboy/girl.

[Angelo]

I do kind've agree with the bit about walking animations and weight. Does have kind of a f2p vibe.

The attack animations are all incredibly solid though.

[Selphea]

My main issue is with the writing though, not so much the opinion. If he said something other than a generic "feels kind of off" like "the keyboard-based controls felt unintuitive - input timings were too strict, they should have integrated mouse controls for function X, physics felt tacked on especially boob jiggle etc etc", or if he uploaded a screenshot where the grassland really does look bare to illustrate his point, instead of 3 screenshots with shrubbery and trees and even a crashed shuttle, I'd respect the review more.

As it were though, my suspicion is that they are slamming PSO2 as a PR stunt. As an indie site, i.e. with roots as a humble blog instead of a big commercial publication, it makes them appear more objective when they go against the flow, not to mention stirs controversy which = more hits.

[Cayenne]

I think the glide thing is a double edge sword. It's looks cool but I see what he meant. The realism is somewhat thrown off with tiny jets from the cast's legs that lift it and move around faster, I would prefer it was on their backs, go traditional, I think that would be the better option.

Edit: Maybe keep the tiny jets on it's legs and do an Iron Man thing and add 2 more jets to the arms or hands, that would make it "feel" a little better, besides when they glide they move around with their arms to the side, put them arms to work!

[Flame]

It sounds like the Destructoid found the game to be sloppy and lacking in polish. And hey judging from the gameplay videos I've seen I'd say that's right on the money. They better tighten this shit up with the other 50% of development time or we've got ourselves a stinker coming in 2012.

[RemiusTA]

Guys, it was just a critic. Who gives a fuck what he said, or any of them said?

Everyone doesn't have to love a game series for it to be a good game series. Thats why alot of the best ones from the past dont exist today. Either that or they DO exist, but just suck now. COUGHCOUGHfinalfantasyCOUGHCOUGH


What he said isn't divine law. He's no different than any of us on this forum giving an impression. The big difference is that he probably isn't a fan and thus doesn't give a fuck what he says, what he gets wrong or how he bashes the game.


I reiterate; it was just a critic. They're a dime a trillion. ESPECIALLY on the internet.

[Cayenne]

It sounds like the Destructoid found the game to be sloppy and lacking in polish. And hey judging from the gameplay videos I've seen I'd say that's right on the money. They better tighten this shit up with the other 50% of development time or we've got ourselves a stinker coming in 2012.

There should be a banner in their office right when you walk in that says that: Tighten this shit up!

I can see the boss right underneath the banner, pointing up and giving a dead eye to all employees walking in and they constantly bow their heads all the way to their desks saying "yes sempai".

[Enforcer MKV]

To be fair, most of us haven't sat down and played the game ourselves, so we can't really defend it too well.

I know people will point to videos, but I'm just saying the best way to judge a game is to sit down and play it.

I haven't read the Destructoid article, but the joystiq piece did seem kind of bare, if you ask me. Probably because everyone here has been picking apart any and all information we can get.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw my two cents into the pot.

[Zyrusticae]

Destructoid is not a site to take particularly seriously.

Just thought I'd put that out there.

[Flame]

As it were though, my suspicion is that they are slamming PSO2 as a PR stunt. As an indie site, i.e. with roots as a humble blog instead of a big commercial publication, it makes them appear more objective when they go against the flow, not to mention stirs controversy which = more hits.

So as a PR stunt, destructoid has decided to crap all over PSO2, a game that at this point no body knows or cares about, in order to get some street cred? The franchise has more or less disappeared altogether from the western market. PSU:AOI and PSP1, 2 hardly even got reviewed by most major gaming sites. If they did, it wasn't a positive reception(maybe a 7/10 here or there). So I don't see how dissing PSO2 could stir any controversy whatsoever. This is actually a pretty objective account of the game feels to an ordinary gamer. And it's worth pointing out that he's not just some guy who plays FPS's all day. He mentions in his opening statement that he was a big fan of the original. If anything, he's biased in PSO's favor.

[Zyrusticae]

And, seriously, so what?

The guy had fifteen minutes of playtime. Playtime that was heavily directed and restricted, of an early alpha build.

Quite frankly, just that line alone (fifteen minutes?!) made the rest of the article entirely not worth reading. There's nothing he can tell us that we don't already know with that little playtime.

[MinscTFA]

It seems like everyone is getting pretty defensive... Personally, I though the Destructoid preview was pretty refreshing. It's nice to hear an opinion from someone that isn't battered and deep fried in a decade of bias. Most posters on this site, myself included, are heavily invested in PS or at least were at one point. It can be difficult to see the flaws in something when you've become accustomed to them. Sometimes it takes an untrained eye to point them out.

Good post.

I have not read those articles and have no intention to. When the game is finally released I'll read the impressions of the PSO community Why? I'm a PSO fan who will trust the impressions of other PSO fans. We know what we want in a game.

[NoiseHERO]

It seems like everyone is getting pretty defensive... Personally, I though the Destructoid preview was pretty refreshing. It's nice to hear an opinion from someone that isn't battered and deep fried in a decade of bias. Most posters on this site, myself included, are heavily invested in PS or at least were at one point. It can be difficult to see the flaws in something when you've become accustomed to them. Sometimes it takes an untrained eye to point them out.

I didn't even read it yet and I agree with you...

THIS THREAD IS A CONFIRMATION OF HOW MESSED UP YOU GUYS ARE! 8D

[Enforcer MKV]

Ah, Mich; always doing it for the lols, right?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Dinosaur]

I'm 100% sure he just sucked at the game.

[Cayenne]

They're still tweaking the game, come on, Forces can now charge panel spells, BIG upgrade!

[yoshiblue]

Totally weak man. fifteenth minuets man. fifteen minuets. Not enough play time to make a complete first impression.


Warning: This is a bias defensive statement. All arguments to this statement will be flamed with no u's and your momma jokes. Your argument is invalid because i'm always right.

This announcement was brought to you by,
~Yoshiblue of the PSO service announcement(or whatever)~

Alright I give. Its not even funny...

[NoiseHERO]

15 minutes longer than you guys got to play. Not counting your imaginatio-

Oh kay now I'm just trolling.

[Zarode]

I didn't even read it yet and I agree with you...

THIS THREAD IS A CONFIRMATION OF HOW MESSED UP YOU GUYS ARE! 8D

I agree. Most of you who posted in this thread are hella compliant. All I saw were a bunch of unprofessional complaints, nothing to write home about, even though this guy thought he could. He plays an alpha build, and complains about it not being polished. Waiter, WAITER! My uncooked burger is uncooked.

[Selphea]

So as a PR stunt, destructoid has decided to crap all over PSO2, a game that at this point no body knows or cares about, in order to get some street cred? The franchise has more or less disappeared altogether from the western market. PSU:AOI and PSP1, 2 hardly even got reviewed by most major gaming sites. If they did, it wasn't a positive reception(maybe a 7/10 here or there). So I don't see how dissing PSO2 could stir any controversy whatsoever. This is actually a pretty objective account of the game feels to an ordinary gamer. And it's worth pointing out that he's not just some guy who plays FPS's all day. He mentions in his opening statement that he was a big fan of the original. If anything, he's biased in PSO's favor.

Exactly? =p Since no one cares about it, they don't have to worry about a big backlash, so the result is a controlled controversy that makes it look like they dare to go against "the big guy" and speak their minds. Notice that they pulled something similar with The Witcher 2, another foreign title with a niche following, rating it 6/10, and look at the comments there.

[AzureBlaze]

I guess my only problem with these reviews is...
They're sort of the first "USA big site" to do any sort of publication on the game. Since Sega/whoever hasn't decided to post up an eng site for it/start hyping it--anyone who ISNT a megafan (as in, they dont know about here/other dedicated psu pso places) might see it and mis-judge based on these place's measly 15 minute alpha impression.

They should have disclaimered in the articles that they had hardly any play time, didn't get to charcreate, and didn't get to familiarize with the game, AND that it's nothing but an alpha. Because a disclaimer like that would cut some slack where it's deserved and make sure readers kept an open mind.

The ideal would of been something of a good look at it, with a note for everyone to get on their FB and give 'em heck for a global release just to be sure everyone who wants the game, can get it.

[Cayenne]

I agree. Most of you who posted in this thread are hella compliant. All I saw were a bunch of unprofessional complaints, nothing to write home about, even though this guy thought he could. He plays an alpha build, and complains about it not being polished. Waiter, WAITER! My uncooked burger is uncooked.

Are we expected to respond in a professional manner? We are NOT professional journalist, critics, nor writers. Just people on a public forum where anyone can sign in a voice an opining.

If you are expecting more than this, well then good luck.

[AnnabellaRenee87]

Wow this thread grew legs and ran, lol
OK people are getting a little mad and some are getting overly defensive, here is a dancing Rappy to make you feel better.
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/09/17/seen-tgs-the-rappy-est-place-on-earth/

Wait at 27-28 is that the girls from the JPOP group Halcali?

[Anon_Fire]

I think they should wait until the Beta and maybe we could get a better response.

[ShadowDragon28]

I guess my only problem with these reviews is...
They're sort of the first "USA big site" to do any sort of publication on the game. Since Sega/whoever hasn't decided to post up an eng site for it/start hyping it--anyone who ISNT a megafan (as in, they dont know about here/other dedicated psu pso places) might see it and mis-judge based on these place's measly 15 minute alpha impression.

They should have disclaimered in the articles that they had hardly any play time, didn't get to charcreate, and didn't get to familiarize with the game, AND that it's nothing but an alpha. Because a disclaimer like that would cut some slack where it's deserved and make sure readers kept an open mind.

The ideal would of been something of a good look at it, with a note for everyone to get on their FB and give 'em heck for a global release just to be sure everyone who wants the game, can get it.

qft. And well said, i also agree with Selphia's posts.

I didn't know the TGS demo had the character create crippled and that the person only just hopped in and played for only like 15 minutes (must of missed were that was mentioned).

That was kind of bad move on Sega's part. The TGS demo should of allowed people to use the character creator for 25 mins, or opt to play a pre-created character in the forest or caves mission for about 35 minutes *at least*.

But what the frak??? 15 minutes is probably *not* adequete time to get a good feel for all the controls or the gameplay to try out the wired lance or the combo attacks a Hunter can use.
If I played a demo of something like WoW or Guild Wars 2 without the character creation for only 10-15 minutes, it would not make that good an impression on me, I might even think it not that exciting; even though they are actually very good (WoW being very good is debateble among some people i know, i dont play WoW anyways so I don't care to argue that).

[MinscTFA]

I guess my only problem with these reviews is...

Why do people keep calling these things reviews? They're just impressions of a work in progress.

[Enforcer MKV]

Hey, it made me chuckle, yoshi.

[Hatemachine]

If anything involving gaming has taught me it's this one simple fact.

If a Game TRULY sucks people will not buy it, and people will make it WELL known that it sucks.

The Reviewers, Previewers, and any other Video game related parasite count for VERY little, much like sports casters are relegated to only commenting about the actual work and effort of those better and more capable than them, also akin to Lampreys feeding and survival by attaching themselves to sharks.

I tend to make up my own mind, from watching as much available footage as possible of the game being played, and the reactions posed by those who DON'T have any form of vested interest in the product, aka anyone who can make money from promoting, reviewing or influencing any decision whatsoever involving a given product.

The player base CAN and OFTEN does speak, and it tends to speak very loudly, whether people want it too or not lol.

[HappierWorlds]

Joystiq was very positive, I be impressed.
As for Destructoid, we know the kind of **** that passes for 'journalism' at that site. AVOID.

btw it's about time to sign up for an account there. Let the PSO2 fanboyism begin.

[amtalx]

Joystiq was very positive, I be impressed.
As for Destructoid, we know the kind of **** that passes for 'journalism' at that site. AVOID.
So if a writer agrees with you, it's journalism. If not, it's trash devoid of any integrity. Did I get that right?

[Zyrusticae]

Like I said, Destructoid is known for pulling shit for pageviews.

Like the aforementioned 6/10 for The Witcher 2. Difference in opinion is one thing, but...

http://www.metacritic.com/publication/destructoid?filter=games

[moorebounce]

Those impressions were from people who didn't play the PSO-U series all that much. So it's like trying to find out whats wrong with your car but the person trying to tell you isn't a mechanic.

Maybe those two should have brushed up on their PSO-U before previewing PSO2.

Reviews and previews are opinions and you can only trust your own or maybe someone with the same tastes as yours.

[amtalx]

Well, Jim Sterling is known for having unorthodox taste in games, but Destructoid has many more writers. Also, if you're going to "pull shit to get page views", it seems a little odd to do it with a game that isn't even in English, and has no known US release date. I'm not out to defend Destructoid. The article wasn't terribly well written, but some of the writer's points were valid.

Phantasy Star has never been a perfect series, and probably never will be. We are all very aware of Sega's mismanagement of several installments. However, we are all still drawn here to relentlessly pour over every byte of information that slips out of Sega's doors. It's precisely because of that emotional investment that makes us the most ill-equipped to judge. It's almost as if the Sega is an abusive boyfriend that slaps us around, but we refuse to dump him because we selectively remember the good times and "know that he doesn't mean it." With that said, just take the preview at face value: impressions from someone that hasn't played a PS game in quite some time. It's valuable input for Sega if they want to attract any players that don't read PSOW every day or haven't already committed themselves to buying a copy.

[Poubelle]

I'm going to buy it regardless of the reviews. and I think a lot of people will buy it and subscribe, because unlike PSU this is more straightforward about being an online MMO. PSU confused people, looked like a single player RPG with an online side feature.

having said that I loved both PSO and PSU, if they can keep hacking or duping out of the game this time they will receive my money for many months I'm sure.

anyways I just decided to ramble. the first review link seemed fair. I feel like the game is going to develop a lot more from its current self though.

it sounds like that reviewer got stuck with a fat bulky sort of premade cast.

[Flame]

Those impressions were from people who didn't play the PSO-U series all that much. So it's like trying to find out whats wrong with your car but the person trying to tell you isn't a mechanic.


What, he mentioned that he loved the original. How much of a nut do you have to be in order to qualify.

[moorebounce]

What, he mentioned that he loved the original. How much of a nut do you have to be in order to qualify.

A nut is someone whos played all of them or close to it. A nut would know the DC and PSO PC (a port of the DC version) versions are the worst of the whole series. They have to do better than to say they loved it when it first came out. Heck I loved it when it first came out too but it got better with every subsequent version. It doesn't sound like hes a PSO aficionado.

[FluffyFox]

A nut is someone whos played all of them or close to it. A nut would know the DC and PSO PC (a port of the DC version) versions are the worst of the whole series. They have to do better than to say they loved it when it first came out. Heck I loved it when it first came out too but it got better with every subsequent version. It doesn't sound like hes a PSO aficionado.

So you have to be a PSO aficionado to be qualified to review a game?

Here's a concept: Perhaps a game should be able to impress people REGARDLESS if they're fans of the series or not!!

[RemiusTA]

The point is bias. If you're not inclined to like a certain type of game, then you probably are going to be much more likely to split hairs about it. You know, kind of how PSO/PSU fanboys trash the other entries into their same favorite series?


That aside...this thread makes my head hurt going away now

[moorebounce]

So you have to be a PSO aficionado to be qualified to review a game?

Here's a concept: Perhaps a game should be able to impress people REGARDLESS if they're fans of the series or not!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9kpTvm6CYA

[yoshiblue]

Thats a good one. Now to wait and see who flames this for opposing their views.

[moorebounce]

The point is bias. If you're not inclined to like a certain type of game, then you probably are going to be much more likely to split hairs about it. You know, kind of how PSO/PSU fanboys trash the other entries into their same favorite series?


That aside...this thread makes my head hurt going away now


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TylvUGJIi_w&feature=related

[Xaeris]

This thread has enough damage control in it to make a presidential campaign proud.

[Arkios]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L2EwkyEOVb0/TS_F94Nc37I/AAAAAAAAABE/YqjyxVuUnXA/s1600/duty_calls.png

["En"]

Alternatively, you can do what every other fan does, and completely disregard the review. Pretend it doesn't exist. As bad as that would normally sound, it's the only sensible thing to do. If you believe it to be slandarous or biased, yet you enjoy the game (or in this case, have been a fan of the franchise in the past), it won't make the game any less fun for you. Reviews are directed at people who are on the fence. I think it's safe to say that the people posting here are not on the fence. As such, I don't understand what all of the fuss is about.

Would an excellent review for the game have brought in more potential players? Probably not. This is an obscure Sega title that follows in the footsteps of games whose success can be accurately described as cult popularity. To top that off, it comes in the variety of a dying breed: the once-great JRPG.

Most games today garner their popularity before they're even released. The "hyped" games, which people hear about through the grape vine, are the ones which lead the gaming industry. Not the ones that put in an honest effort to be good games, and get great reviews. Sickening as the prospect is, welcome to modern gaming.

[RemiusTA]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L2EwkyEOVb0/TS_F94Nc37I/AAAAAAAAABE/YqjyxVuUnXA/s1600/duty_calls.png

So great


because that is so me

[Randomness]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L2EwkyEOVb0/TS_F94Nc37I/AAAAAAAAABE/YqjyxVuUnXA/s1600/duty_calls.png

And this is why XKCD is awesome.

[NoiseHERO]

The point is bias. If you're not inclined to like a certain type of game, then you probably are going to be much more likely to split hairs about it. You know, kind of how PSO/PSU fanboys trash the other entries into their same favorite series?


That aside...this thread makes my head hurt going away now

Then this thread must be mirroring the after effects of my contribution to this forum community in a nutshell.
: O

[yoshiblue]

Launching MAC rounds at one spot?

[Vashyron]

Looks like this topic will show who the 'fanboys' are.

:wacko:

[HeartBreak301]

I would say "Who cares." but at 7 pages... :disapprove:

[Geistritter]

Holy shit, someone is being objective about something I like, stating what needs work in their opinion rather than "OMG THIS GAME IS THE BEST THING EVER MADE I CAN'T WAIT FOR IT TO BE DONE WHY ISN'T IT DONE". Get the pitchforks and torches ready.

[Yata The Prophet]

Destuctoid = TROLLS of the gaming scene.
*AVOID

[Macman]

Do people even take online reviews seriously anymore? Who really cares what reviewers that are often bought off say?

[Cayenne]

Look, let me help you all ignore this once and for all.

This is going to be a game all of us are going to play the first day it comes out and I'm about 99% sure no one is gonna wait for a good review to come out before we decide on spending cash to buy/play/subscribe (rent?) this game.

We KNOW this game is going to kick ass, why hear it else where? This only thing we should be looking for is more info about the game, not what some hot pocket eating gamer critic thinks.

Lock this thread, it's bad karma.

[GCoffee]

No one can avert from his karma, Cayenne. That is cosmic law.
Besides, I still think that some complaints from the reviewer are very valid and that the game still needs much tuning around its rough edges. I was convinced of PSU being all I ever wanted before it came out, so this time I am going to be more aware of faults I pick up from various videos.

[Cayenne]

No one can avert from his karma, Cayenne. That is cosmic law.
Besides, I still think that some complaints from the reviewer are very valid and that the game still needs much tuning around its rough edges.
Yeah, true but from what I've learned, read, discovered, saw, I can sleep knowing SEGA is listening to it's fans, that's a big plus so I decided to let go of my doubts (except for race/sex differences, they better do it right) and wait for good results.


I was convinced of PSU being all I ever wanted before it came out, so this time I am going to be more aware of faults I pick up from various videos.
Everyone was, it got Best in Show at E3 and then, well, yeah...

[GCoffee]

I did, however, realize that I just was a victim of the hype back then. People keep praising the first PSU trailer from way back, but even that one looks like a pile of shit, honestly.

This time the trailer looks alright, but that's where it is. The game could become great or bad, but it could go either way at the point it is right now. I will only believe in progress once I see it this time around, and as long as this progress did not happen, all these complaints are still valid.

[ShinMaruku]

We KNOW this game is going to kick ass, why hear it else where?
I am not sure if this will kick ass. Sega has never given me evidence to give them the benefit, they shall get the doubt until I can test the thing myself. It''s not like Blizzard or Naughty Dpg or Bioware. They have been giving me gold for years, Sega is hit and miss. Sure when they HIT it's good but they also miss and miss quite often.

[Jinketsu]

I was pretty sure PSU was going to kick ass, and it ended up not being the game for me. I have high hopes for PSO2 but until I have a chance to play it myself I won't get too excited.

The goal of any MMO is to pull in as many people as possible, so these reviews from people who "don't get it" are more important to the dev team than just taking them with a grain of salt. Seeing how the game plays to someone who never played an entry in the series is just as important as making sure series fans are satisfied

[sugarFO]

PSO2 just needs a lot of marketing. Like with WoW, they even had commercials with celebrities and stuff. The game became synonymous with addicted gamers and all the media frenzy about the internet (which deserves an off topic thread about why the media likes to make video games out to be the bad guys all the time!!) I really think the Phantasy Star series has something unique and special and it deserves more than a niche market. I really hope around beta (if they are going global with this) that they try to spread the word about the game as best they can. I'd hate to see it end up a "JP thing" like PSU. -_-

[chibiLegolas]

It seems like everyone is getting pretty defensive... Personally, I though the Destructoid preview was pretty refreshing. It's nice to hear an opinion from someone that isn't battered and deep fried in a decade of bias. Most posters on this site, myself included, are heavily invested in PS or at least were at one point. It can be difficult to see the flaws in something when you've become accustomed to them. Sometimes it takes an untrained eye to point them out.

Agree. I just hope PSO2 will be greatly improved so that more potential fans join our PSO family.
:)

BTW, Don't forget. The Destructoid reviewer mentioned he's remembering PSO from Dreamcast days when he was 14! I wonder how PSO looked in a 14 yr old's eyes. And now at 24, looking at a demo of PSO2.

[chibiLegolas]

That was kind of bad move on Sega's part. The TGS demo should of allowed people to use the character creator for 25 mins, or opt to play a pre-created character in the forest or caves mission for about 35 minutes *at least*.

But what the frak??? 15 minutes is probably *not* adequete time to get a good feel for all the controls or the gameplay to try out the wired lance or the combo attacks a Hunter can use.
If I played a demo of something like WoW or Guild Wars 2 without the character creation for only 10-15 minutes, it would not make that good an impression on me, I might even think it not that exciting; even though they are actually very good (WoW being very good is debateble among some people i know, i dont play WoW anyways so I don't care to argue that).

What?! Have you ever waited to play a demo at one of these shows? 15 mins of play is LONG enough to get the jist that it's an action RPG Sega's promoting. True 15 min. is not long enough to give a good review, but a good impression. And that's the point to these demos on the trade floor. You gotta get ppl rotating and cycling around your booth. Not sit there, linger, and blocking others to see what's in your booth.

[RemiusTA]

It took me way more than 15 minutes to get into PSO IIRC.


I think im lying. I was fully into it by the first hildebear.

[Akaimizu]

Well, PSO was special. I was getting hooked from the time I spent minutes moving my created character around and fighting mobs.

At the time, a fully online RPG, with complete and real-time fighting on a console was a brand new experience. This was not your point and click online game. :)

They can't really recreate that (first time) experience again. Though I'd guess a good use of Vertical in combat would be the closest they'd achieve to that *brand new* feeling.

Edit: Not to mention. Unique Character Creation tools in almost all online games that were NOT PSO, at the time, sucked in comparison. So it did help create something special with your character.

[yoshiblue]

That or being sucking into the video game/television. Won't be possible until someone makes it possible however.

[NoiseHERO]

It took me way more than 15 minutes to get into PSO IIRC.


I think im lying. I was fully into it by the first hildebear.

Personally when I first played PSO... it was like "wow holy shit this is...REEAAALLLY different and this is an online action rpg WHY AM I NOT PLAYING THIS ONLIN- Oh I'm only 11 i can't afford P2P games"

Then the whole game felt boring and dull by the time I got to caves, and everything in ep2 raped me in the face. Infact the whole atmospheric stuff that people loved so much died quickly for me with repetition sure the game still had that awesome and mysterious feel. But otherwise I felt like I was just playing a halfassed zelda where I walked at an annoying pace and got knocked around like a ragdoll and It had mediocre character creation and it didn't help that I made fonewms that looked exactly like Link.

It's magic and real fun didn't pick up for me till I started playing with 3 other friends. Especially after being able to handle the ep2 missions with the better sound track and stage designs. Then it was just wondering how far in this game really went into this dreamy setting, which we never found out thanks to our saves getting corrupted. and then I was disappointed how small PSO actually was after finally playing on "certain servers"

Why am I talking about all this again. I'm just about to start rambling on into a whole bunch other unnecessary stuff no one will read.

[yoshiblue]

I read it

[NoiseHERO]

Well actually looking at PSO2... Right now it's not giving me that hype I got for PSU, nor does it look like it'll "feel as special as PSO" for me...

It just looks like they're just throwing in a bunch of things they wanted to do to make PSU better, juggling that with trying to appeal to pure PSO fans.

It looks awesome now... but it can still easily turn out to be a dull mess. I guess I'm just waiting to see some actual content... and not just the base of the game. You know... MORE than just like 9 outfits, the random generated forest with enemies that don't fight back, a boring superstore for the only main lobby. (Seriously say it's a waste of space all you want, but if PSU had whole cities and this game just has one space station Wal-mart I consider that a downgrade.) Then the music... is already feeling like nothing special.

My hype meter is low, bro and I'm starting to only see the bad again.

[Arkios]

I wonder how PSO looked in a 14 yr old's eyes. And now at 24, looking at a demo of PSO2.

Welcome to my world. I was playing PSO during the summer vacation of middle school. It was amazing. (I'm 24 now as well)

I'm trying to think of a good comparison to describe what it's like, but I can't really think of anything. I've got nostalgia googles on though every time I look at PSO2.

[yoshiblue]

What ever happen to the groove during the trailer. The lobby joke made me laugh though.

[NoiseHERO]

What ever happen to the groove during the trailer. The lobby joke made me laugh though.

Oh my god, speaking of nostalgia. "michan lags".... LOOOOOOOOOOOL..............

Damn I miss FEZ, even badly run the game was still fun no matter what. Especially for my trollin' ninja ass.

But yeah like remius kept saying, if the game is released as it is now, it'll easily be ass. and they're adding what within the next 3-5 months again?

[yoshiblue]

Yeah the past still lingers over my shoulder. Michan is still active and has just updated the hong kong tranfer thread and maybe links. Haven't spoken to the dood though. Some of the others are in guilds within dragon nest.

[NoiseHERO]

Yeah the past still lingers over my shoulder. Michan is still active and has just updated the hong kong tranfer thread and maybe links. Haven't spoken to the dood though. Some of the others are in guilds within dragon nest.

Ehn, I don't miss that community at all. I seriously had no friends on there because I wanted nothing to do with all of that hatred and drama, other than trolling it. and the few decent people I did work with had no personality and still took the game seriously so it was a boring relationship that I'd barely call e-friendship.

JP server sounds like too much of the politics that made the game unfun. "The whole be useful and do your boring role or don't play because this is serious" attitude + a language barrier + a desperate means to even play the game. HK I have no clue, but it just looks like a mess... NA troll parties or gtfo, brah.

[voxie]

I'm going to cut all reviews and first impressions out until the game is actually out in Japan properly.... :P

Still, hopefully the game's developers will look at the impressions so far and take heed...

[Zyrusticae]

Y'know, the whole point of the alpha was to gather feedback and testing data in the first place.

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand...

[Fenn777]

Welcome to my world. I was playing PSO during the summer vacation of middle school. It was amazing. (I'm 24 now as well)

I'm trying to think of a good comparison to describe what it's like, but I can't really think of anything. I've got nostalgia googles on though every time I look at PSO2.

The difference is chances are none of us were on PSO-World and the blogs and the gaming sites checking every day for this game that is only half done. I won't speak for anyone else but I heard about the game [PSO] through a friend, and we played it without any help or knowledge outside of what we learned while playing. It was a literal adventure. Then later, when we were older, we checked out the website and thought it was so cool how much we had yet to learn.

We'll know most of the "facts" about PSO2 before it's even released. We'll have already played through the game a million times in our heads. There's just no way this type of situation can compare with the surprise and unknown element of the original.

[Macman]

More proof that the Internet ruins everything.

[Fenn777]

More proof that the Internet ruins everything.

Yeah.

On the positive, I find big video game hype super fun. If it bombs it can be depressing, but a lot of memorable things happen on the internet leading up to video game releases and events. Just getting into it is a blast.

[RemiusTA]

We'll know most of the "facts" about PSO2 before it's even released. We'll have already played through the game a million times in our heads. There's just no way this type of situation can compare with the surprise and unknown element of the original.


Been saying this for the longest, man. People tell you so much about the game due to advertising these days that you damn near beat the shit by the time you pay for it at the counter.


PSO was a good example of a game like that. I was shocked shitless first time a bright red box dropped and it was a completely different weapon, or when I waltzed into Ultimate Mode and saw the new stuff. I was also shocked shitless the first time my Barta started shooting ice spikes, my gifoie started emitting heatwave distortion and my Zonde became Holy Indignation.



I remember the maker of Cavestory SPECIFICALLY gave damn near no details about the game other than "you explore caves and shoot stuff". During interviews, he'd stress to stay away from the internet and to play the game for yourself. I can't imagine how much less impactful that game would have been if even some of the smallest details about the gameplay or story were spoiled. But games like Final Fantasy and shit these days are so hung up on their shitty i-wish-i-was-as-impactful-as-ff7 storylines that they'll spoil the ENTIRE game and ALL the gameplay systems before you ever get a chance to play it and be surprised for yourself. Well no WONDER you'll never be better than FF7 again. '

(Just like One Winged Angel will never be a TENTH as awesome as it was back during PSX days and before shitty fanservice. We've heard it so much at this point that nobody cares anymore.)

[NoiseHERO]

Been saying this for the longest, man. People tell you so much about the game due to advertising these days that you damn near beat the shit by the time you pay for it at the counter.


PSO was a good example of a game like that. I was shocked shitless first time a bright red box dropped and it was a completely different weapon, or when I waltzed into Ultimate Mode and saw the new stuff. I was also shocked shitless the first time my Barta started shooting ice spikes, my gifoie started emitting heatwave distortion and my Zonde became Holy Indignation.



I remember the maker of Cavestory SPECIFICALLY gave damn near no details about the game other than "you explore caves and shoot stuff". During interviews, he'd stress to stay away from the internet and to play the game for yourself. I can't imagine how much less impactful that game would have been if even some of the smallest details about the gameplay or story were spoiled. But games like Final Fantasy and shit these days are so hung up on their shitty i-wish-i-was-as-impactful-as-ff7 storylines that they'll spoil the ENTIRE game and ALL the gameplay systems before you ever get a chance to play it and be surprised for yourself. Well no WONDER you'll never be better than FF7 again. '

(Just like One Winged Angel will never be a TENTH as awesome as it was back during PSX days and before shitty fanservice. We've heard it so much at this point that nobody cares anymore.)

The internet killed the media.

[Geistritter]

(Just like One Winged Angel will never be a TENTH as awesome as it was back during PSX days and before shitty fanservice. We've heard it so much at this point that nobody cares anymore.)

Nobody whose opinion still matters on the subject, anyway.

Fenn777 raises a good point about the adverse effects of hype and knowledge of the game prior to going in, on another note; indeed, one of the things I complained about regarding PSU was that everything I could do was presented to me from the beginning. In PSO, so many things I picked up were things I didn't even know existed; I go in expecting to just shoot stuff with my rifle, and one day this thing in ALL CAPS drops and oh look I can actually use it and holy crap it's this double bladed lightsaber thing this is awesome I'm going to use this against everything now and wow I die fast when I'm not shooting things.

Didn't experience that at all in PSU; I was just waiting to be able to use the stuff I already knew was there. And that was with me forgetting the game existed until a couple of days before launch, so I wasn't even sitting on its front lawn diving for whatever scraps of information I could get.

I get the feeling I already know too much about this game (though I have my friend to blame for his constantly telling me new things despite my insistence that I wasn't interested) for it to give me any sense of wonder as well. The developers aren't helping by not keeping new things a secret ("LOOK AT THIS WEIRD CHAIN WHIP THING WE HAVE. NOW TO WAIT FOR YOU TO STOP CARING AND ASK US WHAT ELSE IS NEW."), and they're likely going to make everything equippable by each class apparent from the beginning, taking out the "Huh, what does this do?" aspect as well.

I think something a lot of us forget about our experiences with Phantasy Star Online was the fact that we didn't know everything going in, so finding that new thingamajig or watching some random guy we played with swing another around made us want to keep going and see what else the game had to show us, regardless of the merits of the game itself alone. It was one of the things that was a part of the game's often-mentioned atmosphere, and lent us the feeling of traversing an alien world full of secrets. I get the feeling that this important element of the original game is once again going to be missing here.

[Ark22]

Welcome to America. If it ain't FPS we don't care.

[ShinMaruku]

No the media was already dead.

[Geistritter]

Welcome to America. If it ain't FPS we don't care.

...Okay, seriously. Have most of you even read the article?

[NoiseHERO]

No the media was already dead.

I dunno...

The internet became cool in the 90's... and the media started sucking since forever BUT it started sucking more by generation X which means yeah we killed the media, with our internet abuse.

[Geistritter]

And as far as quality of information is concerned, we get relatively accurate information passed through a content filter by people who don't want us to know too much traded for information that's generally pure but mixed with bullshitters who are just looking to rile up the gullible.

It just wouldn't be humanity if it made any sense.

[RemiusTA]

Who remembers when videogames had cheat codes


Who remembers when Stragety Guides were actually not a COMPLETE waste of money outside whatever fan or art value you could get from it

[yoshiblue]

Back when book catalogs sold them all system cheat code books were most of the time I didn't have the games listed. I only bought one but look at other's until 3 yrs after. GTA still has cheat codes though. Back when everyone wasn't a born pokemon master and had to look at guides to get the best of what you want.

[NoiseHERO]

Who remembers when videogames had cheat codes


Who remembers when Stragety Guides were actually not a COMPLETE waste of money outside whatever fan or art value you could get from it

Remember when nintendo power was cool and had useful information that you couldn't get from a quick glance at gamefaqs?

Michaeru Farms remembers...

Or remember when playing multiplayer games for free meant getting off your ass and going to a friends house, instead of waiting for a 30 minute download and staring at your monitor while you do everything in the game with one mouse click.

Michaeru Farms remembers...

[RemiusTA]

Nobody whose opinion still matters on the subject, anyway.

Fenn777 raises a good point about the adverse effects of hype and knowledge of the game prior to going in, on another note; indeed, one of the things I complained about regarding PSU was that everything I could do was presented to me from the beginning. In PSO, so many things I picked up were things I didn't even know existed; I go in expecting to just shoot stuff with my rifle, and one day this thing inA LL CAPS drops and oh look I can actually use it and holy crap it's this double bladed lightsaber thing this is awesome I'm going to use this against everything now and wow I die fast when I'm not shooting things.

I think something a lot of us forget about our experiences with Phantasy Star Online was the fact that we didn't know everything going in, so finding that new thingamajig or watching some random guy we played with swing another around made us want to keep going and see what else the game had to show us, regardless of the merits of the game itself alone. It was one of the things that was a part of the game's often-mentioned atmosphere, and lent us the feeling of traversing an alien world full of secrets. I get the feeling that this important element of the original game is once again going to be missing here.

You know, I know a game where that probably happened to everybody -- Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Back when it released (and before i found out it was trash), the Smash Bros. Dojo had released almost EVERYTHING about the game -- every item, every character change, tons of songs, stages, EVERYTHING. And within a day, the whole roster was released.


Yeah, hype definitely has its adverse effects.


I don't mind PSO2 not being EXACTLY like PSO, but honestly it needs to mostly be like PSO, because there is nothing to gain from being like PSU or PSP2. There's nothing unique there anymore. PSU's biggest strides were in customization, and the combat in PSP2i is fun, but even with all its flare and flash it still doesn't really allude to why PSO was a fun game.

That's why i challenge so many opinions about the "FREEDOM" that PSP2i gives you. What are you gaining from it? You can equip anything you want, you can wear anything you want, you can do anything you want, however you want to, no matter how useless or impractical it is. Now what? What have you gained? The satisfaction of equipping a *15 sword on your force? Well congrats, i guess. What about what you've lost though? You just uncovered a part of the game that wont be nearly as fun to uncover once it's actually useful.

Remember that saying "the grass is always greener on the other side?" You've lost all exclusivity to your class and everyone elses. You're just dimming the game down in the long run without even realizing it. Why encourage different classes when they have no real differences? Player-specific drops is another thing. What have you gained, what have you lost? We've been through this a trillion times, in the end you probably lose less PHYSICALLY through the player-specific setting. But in the end, you're only taking more interaction from the game. You're further separating the ENVIRONMENT and the PLAYERS, and also a few unique setups they could do with the drop charts. But they dont think outside the box like in PSO anymore, sooooo...no more "who gets the handgun" in challenge mode. It's just "find everything you want when it drops". Who wants to play a Challenge Mode where the only assistance you'll need will come from the damage all your completely self-sufficient teammates will bring?


I don't expect this game to top PSO; not at all, to be completely honest. Developers just don't look at the same things they used to anymore.

[HappierWorlds]

Lock this thread, it's bad karma.
I agree.
Destructoid. Just look at the name. Destruct + Oid (-oid
A suffix meaning "like" or "resembling," as in ellipsoid, a geometric solid that resembles an ellipse.). Possibly their brains self-destruct from all the illegal substances they use before posting things.
If you post ANYTHING, and i mean ANYTHING against the site your account will be locked out. It happened to me. Twice. No wait, maybe 3x i forget.
Did not troll Destructoid, but they get a big boner in their pants when you compliment them. But go against their grain, and they are just horrendous.
Troll sites like Destructoid should die. They are the bane of Internets.
That is all.

[Fenn777]

I agree.
Destructoid. Just look at the name. Destruct + Oid (-oid
A suffix meaning "like" or "resembling," as in ellipsoid, a geometric solid that resembles an ellipse.). Possibly their brains self-destruct from all the illegal substances they use before posting things.
If you post ANYTHING, and i mean ANYTHING against the site your account will be locked out. It happened to me. Twice. No wait, maybe 3x i forget.
Did not troll Destructoid, but they get a big boner in their pants when you compliment them. But go against their grain, and they are just horrendous.
Troll sites like Destructoid should die. They are the bane of Internets.
That is all.

Nope. Because it's the fault of every internet goer who chooses to participate, not the site itself. They are a product of their community, not the cause of it. If people are not going to do their research and continue to trust gaming sites like they can speak no lies, shame on them.

[kyuuketsuki]

You know, I know a game where that probably happened to everybody -- Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Back when it released (and before i found out it was trash), the Smash Bros. Dojo had released almost EVERYTHING about the game -- every item, every character change, tons of songs, stages, EVERYTHING. And within a day, the whole roster was released.
So... don't look at the Dojo site if you know it's going to ruin the game for you.

Also, I still don't get it. All the changes seem to be crap that only tourney-nerds would care about. I've been playing Brawl with a couple friends recently and am having just as much fun with it as I did with Melee back when.

That's why i challenge so many opinions about the "FREEDOM" that PSP2i gives you. What are you gaining from it? You can equip anything you want, you can wear anything you want, you can do anything you want, however you want to, no matter how useless or impractical it is. Now what? What have you gained? The satisfaction of equipping a *15 sword on your force? Well congrats, i guess. What about what you've lost though? You just uncovered a part of the game that wont be nearly as fun to uncover once it's actually useful.
This I can agree with. It seems like everyone is trying to minimize differences between classes/races/etc., and in the end it seems pointless to have classes/races at all that way. Might as well have just SUPERmar who can do everything and forget about it. I hope PSO2 doesn't wind up this way.

Player-specific drops is another thing. What have you gained, what have you lost? We've been through this a trillion times, in the end you probably lose less PHYSICALLY through the player-specific setting. But in the end, you're only taking more interaction from the game. You're further separating the ENVIRONMENT and the PLAYERS, and also a few unique setups they could do with the drop charts. But they dont think outside the box like in PSO anymore, sooooo...no more "who gets the handgun" in challenge mode. It's just "find everything you want when it drops". Who wants to play a Challenge Mode where the only assistance you'll need will come from the damage all your completely self-sufficient teammates will bring?
Oh lord not this again. What freaking "interactivity" has been lost by having player-specific drops? The interactivity of mad-dashes to pick up the red-box? Gimme a break.

Wait wait wait... it's the interactivity of having to ask your teammates, "Hey, guy who's been hogging 90% of the drops, I need some of those trifluids you picked up..."

Or is it that you want stuff to drop but then be assigned randomly or rolled for, even though that amounts to the same thing except you don't get to click the roll-dice button?

[Zyrusticae]

This I can agree with. It seems like everyone is trying to minimize differences between classes/races/etc., and in the end it seems pointless to have classes/races at all that way. Might as well have just SUPERmar who can do everything and forget about it. I hope PSO2 doesn't wind up this way.
Y'know, this point greatly amuses me.

Do any of you play MMOs at all? What about, say, tabletop Dungeons & Dragons?

Do you also complain about those games (pretty much ALL of them) having absolutely minimal racial differentiation outside of the obvious cosmetic differences and racial lore?

I'm very curious.

[kyuuketsuki]

Y'know, this point greatly amuses me.

Do any of you play MMOs at all? What about, say, tabletop Dungeons & Dragons?

Do you also complain about those games (pretty much ALL of them) having absolutely minimal racial differentiation outside of the obvious cosmetic differences and racial lore?

I'm very curious.
Ehh... I played WoW. Races are 100% cosmetic, sure, asides from some utterly inconsequential racial bonuses. But the differences was in the classes. I'm talking about having some differentiation whether that's classes, races, or something else. Not that significant racial differentiation is necessary on it's own.

What I mean is that all differences shouldn't just amount to cosmetics and everyone is ultimately playing pretty much the same character regardless of what choices they make.

[RemiusTA]

So... don't look at the Dojo site if you know it's going to ruin the game for you.

Also, I still don't get it. All the changes seem to be crap that only tourney-nerds would care about. I've been playing Brawl with a couple friends recently and am having just as much fun with it as I did with Melee back when.


If you've ever played a real fighting game, you would instantly understand why brawl is a terrible game. And you can't use that age-old excuse that "SSB isn't a fighting game" because Melee was just fine in that regard.

(inb4 more "glitch exploitation" nonsense/ignorance)

Don't feel bad though. Marvel vs Capcom 3 is also equally as terrible.



This I can agree with. It seems like everyone is trying to minimize differences between classes/races/etc., and in the end it seems pointless to have classes/races at all that way. Might as well have just SUPERmar who can do everything and forget about it. I hope PSO2 doesn't wind up this way.Yeah, it's kind of like the devs are just catering to whatever people complain about the most. I mean, PSP2's type system was a very neat idea, but PSP2 was its own thing. The only reason it was better than PSU's system is because they did it wrong and had no intention of fixing it. Thus, enter the easy way out -- there ARE no classes anymore!!!


Oh lord not this again. What freaking "interactivity" has been lost by having player-specific drops? The interactivity of mad-dashes to pick up the red-box? Gimme a break.

Wait wait wait... it's the interactivity of having to ask your teammates, "Hey, guy who's been hogging 90% of the drops, I need some of those trifluids you picked up..."First off, calm down.

I don't believe any of you had nearly as many issues as you bitch about, because these "MAD DASHES" and "90% ITEM HOGGING" and "NO SHARING" rarely ever happened to me or anyone i've ever played with.

It's like all that asinine crap you guys were going on about when anyone mentions PvP.

[yoshiblue]

Hey so if fixed alot of the things that made melee great. Doesn't mean its crud in fight game terms. But hey, i'm just a nintendo fanboy. People made mods and are still making mods for it. They already made a mod to were its melee 2.0. Just like it took months to find stuff in melee i'm sure people have found stuff in brawl.

[Zyrusticae]

I don't believe any of you had nearly as many issues as you bitch about, because these "MAD DASHES" and "90% ITEM HOGGING" and "NO SHARING" rarely ever happened to me or anyone i've ever played with.

It's like all that asinine crap you guys were going on about when anyone mentions PvP.
I wonder if you ever played the 360 version.

Aggravating behavior is most frequent in large user bases with lots of, shall we say, "below-the-curve" players. In the latter stages of the PC/PS2 version there were so few players that there were generally only the most dedicated around, which means a very, very different kind of behavior.

[NoiseHERO]

Basically pc/ps2 only had cliquey weaboos and emo kids, boring elitists and then casual players who stopped caring what happened either way but also didn't care enough to cancel their guardians license.

It was more like a small redneck town where everyone would be related to each other and not realize it but at an anime convention. So if you're making a bad rep for yourself everyone knew... they knew.

[chibiLegolas]

I think something a lot of us forget about our experiences with Phantasy Star Online was the fact that we didn't know everything going in, so finding that new thingamajig or watching some random guy we played with swing another around made us want to keep going and see what else the game had to show us, regardless of the merits of the game itself alone. It was one of the things that was a part of the game's often-mentioned atmosphere, and lent us the feeling of traversing an alien world full of secrets. I get the feeling that this important element of the original game is once again going to be missing here.

Yea...
That exploration and discovery of PSO was great. But then that's one of the reasons why PSO-WORLD was born. A community of PSO fans who came together and shared info when in depth stradegy guides didn't exist in english. Internet was still growing in households. And dial up connections was the norm.

It's the main reason why I signed up to this site back in 2003. After looking around for 2 years for basic info, I decided to jump in and contribute info if I could since the site helped me out big time as well.
That, and Challenge Mode was the shit. No stradegy guide listed anywhere. Both Japanese & the rest of us were both new to it. And we SHARED info as we all failed and failed till we got it down packed.

Maybe Sega SHOULD keep alot of us in the dark with info.

[sorry for the off topic]

[yoshiblue]

Yeah. As Remius said, if alot of content is released to the public its going to kill the joy of discovering new stuff. I agree, its best to keep us in the dark.

[tehhaxorer]

I am at least happy to see the game getting some exposure from western media-more western hype will only ensure that it comes out here, and will only help its success!

[NoiseHERO]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait-wait-wait-wait...

I ACTUALLY read the destructoid review just now...

It wasn't even that bad... e_e

[Arkios]

I don't believe any of you had nearly as many issues as you bitch about, because these "MAD DASHES" and "90% ITEM HOGGING" and "NO SHARING" rarely ever happened to me or anyone i've ever played with.

It's like all that asinine crap you guys were going on about when anyone mentions PvP.

It did happen, A LOT.

If you were hunting for anything specific at all, you were forced to play solo or in locked games with friends you trusted. It completely ruined the whole community aspect and turned the game into a OFORPG (Online "Friends Only" Role Playing Game).

I also haven't seen anything ANYWHERE that indicated you cannot drop items for other players. So I don't see how individual drops ruins anything. I'm pretty sure it alerts the other players too when a rare drops. So if something cool for a force drops and you're a ranger, then you can just trade/drop him the rare.

Same thing goes for Trifluids, just periodically open a trade window and toss your force buddy some fluids.

PvP is an entirely different subject. I don't care if they have it, so long as it's a seperate mode and has no bearing on the actual game. (No rewards for playing it either)

[Macman]

So I don't see how individual drops ruins anything.From my experience with PS0, I fear that an individual drop system will result in everything being 1/lol to balance it out. Looking forward to never finding anything as trade fodder to get the stuff I'll never find in the first place.

[Zorafim]

That's why I like the point purchase system. Do a run, get some points. Spend said points on an item. Repeat for as many items as you want. This way, you still have to fight lol monsters, but you won't scream in frustration after killing 10*lol monsters while your friend gets the same item in lol/10 items.
Of course, this system is much less exciting than PSO's system of rare finding. Beyond that, it can make the game more grindy if you have an end goal in mind (okay, do 5 runs a day, and I'll have that new sword in 15 days!). But I'm kind of a fan of fairness. I feel cheapened both when I get a rare item much faster than anyone else, and when I get it after working much harder than everyone else.

[RemiusTA]

Yeah you guys bitched about non player-specific drops, now enjoy having a better chance of being struck in the balls with a meteor than getting that weapon you wanted.[SPOILER-BOX]


Hey so if fixed alot of the things that made melee great. Doesn't mean its crud in fight game terms. But hey, i'm just a nintendo fanboy. People made mods and are still making mods for it. They already made a mod to were its melee 2.0. Just like it took months to find stuff in melee i'm sure people have found stuff in brawl.

No, nobody will ever "find" anything in brawl like they did in melee -- thats the whole reason people hate it. Melee was DESIGNED for gameplay that evolved as the players came to grips with their characters. Brawl was DESIGNED, literally and obviously, to not let this happen.

Brawl is so well-built for casual play that it literally does not allow you to get good enough at the game at a competitive level -- there is always a mechanic, pre-programmed into the game, that prevents you from gaining an edge competitively; tripping, stale-move proration, no hitstun, ridiculous gravity, unlimited air dodges, damn near auto-directional influence...The ENTIRE game is 100% defensive, and being on the offensive, at any given time, will never give you an edge at winning (unless you're Metaknight) which is why the game is trash.

Not going to get into another brawl talk. But yeah, people need to understand that there's really nothing to defend about brawl being a shitty fighting game -- it was designed to be shitty. And thats why i don't play it. It's fun for about 30 minutes, and then i can't stomach it anymore.[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Zorafim]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/Zorafin/z962.png

I was gonna go into a point by point argument of why I like brawl better, but I don't feel like derailing another topic even further. I'm just gonna say that I like brawl's more casual atmosphere. That, and it's super fun to choose a random character, and random stage, and see what happens. And the beautiful music, and creative stages, and...
Nope! Done! Not gonna say anymore!

[•Col•]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/Zorafin/z962.png

I was gonna go into a point by point argument of why I like brawl better, but I don't feel like derailing another topic even further. I'm just gonna say that I like brawl's more casual atmosphere. That, and it's super fun to choose a random character, and random stage, and see what happens. And the beautiful music, and creative stages, and...
Nope! Done! Not gonna say anymore!

Yup.

Brawl's a good casual/party game.

[Zorafim]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/Zorafin/z962.png

I was gonna go into a point by point argument of why I like brawl better, but I don't feel like derailing another topic even further. I'm just gonna say that I like brawl's more casual atmosphere. That, and it's super fun to choose a random character, and random stage, and see what happens. And the beautiful music, and creative stages, and...
Nope! Done! Not gonna say anymore!

Yup.

Brawl's a good casual/party game.

I'm just quoting this again so I have another excuse to post that picture.

[amtalx]

Yeah you guys bitched about non player-specific drops, now enjoy having a better chance of being struck in the balls with a meteor than getting that weapon you wanted.
But I thought your experience with PS has been an altruistic Shangri La where party members would gladly give up a weapon for the greater good?

[Macman]

But I thought your experience with PS has been an altruistic Shangri La where party members would gladly give up a weapon for the greater good?"You want the J-Sword that dropped on my end and I can't even use due to my class? Fuck you, this is my personal trade bait for that uber wand!"

[yoshiblue]

Heh

[SPOILER-BOX]Agreed, I won't argue over why melee can do as good as brawl. Like I said, they have mods that turn into melee 2.0. Funny pic btw.[/SPOILER-BOX]

[kyuuketsuki]

Yeah you guys bitched about non player-specific drops, now enjoy having a better chance of being struck in the balls with a meteor than getting that weapon you wanted.
1) I highly doubt anyone on this board (or anyone outside of Japan period) had any influence whatsoever on their decision to go with player-specific drops.

2) Are you serious? What does drops being player-specific or not have to do with your chance to get a drop you're looking for? That's an issue of balancing drop rates in general. And I certainly have a better chance of getting a drop if I don't have to worry about someone ninjaing it when it does drop. And it has zero effect on the likelihood of someone trading it or not -- if someone's a greedy jerk, they're going to be a greedy jerk regardless of the drops being player-specific or not. If they're not a greedy jerk, they're perfectly capable of going, "Hey, so-and-so just dropped for me, anyone here want it?"

[Arkios]

1) I highly doubt anyone on this board (or anyone outside of Japan period) had any influence whatsoever on their decision to go with player-specific drops.

2) Are you serious? What does drops being player-specific or not have to do with your chance to get a drop you're looking for? That's an issue of balancing drop rates in general. And I certainly have a better chance of getting a drop if I don't have to worry about someone ninjaing it when it does drop. And it has zero effect on the likelihood of someone trading it or not -- if someone's a greedy jerk, they're going to be a greedy jerk regardless of the drops being player-specific or not. If they're not a greedy jerk, they're perfectly capable of going, "Hey, so-and-so just dropped for me, anyone here want it?"

The difference is that when you killed a monster in PSO you a 1/X drop rate and each monster only dropped one item.

Now in PSO2, you still have a 1/X drop rate... however each monster drops an item for each player in the group. So essentially each monster drops 4 items now.

That is going to make rare hunting MUCH easier if they don't adjust the drop rates to make them lower. If you killed 10 monsters in PSO2, you'd have to kill 40 of them in PSO to have seen the same amount of drops.

[Macman]

That is going to make rare hunting MUCH easier if they don't adjust the drop rates to make them lower.And what makes you think they won't?

[NoiseHERO]

The difference is that when you killed a monster in PSO you a 1/X drop rate and each monster only dropped one item.

Now in PSO2, you still have a 1/X drop rate... however each monster drops an item for each player in the group. So essentially each monster drops 4 items now.

That is going to make rare hunting MUCH easier if they don't adjust the drop rates to make them lower. If you killed 10 monsters in PSO2, you'd have to kill 40 of them in PSO to have seen the same amount of drops.

That's IF you have 4 people in the party, and that's also assuming they're your friends/your friends want the same item. So I only really see it as a way to promote party play.

A lot of games are ass-easy with a full party these days anyway.


I'd rather spend a year hunting 100 rares, than a year hunting 25 rares. WHERES THE CONSTANT ACCOMPLISHMENTS, NOBODY SHOULD WANT TO BE STUCK IN THE SAME PLACE FOREVER TO GET ONE WEAPON WHAT THE HELL MAN! THIS ISN'T KOREA!

Besides it's not like rares mean anything other than "It has a specific use or advantage, it's strong, it's pretty cool looking, and it's harder to get than normal weapons." The whole "It' rare cause only 5 people have it, becaue you have to be not a pro player or an elitist but a complete tool to get this item" mentality is for selling trading cards man.

I'm sure in a game completely revolved around hunting """rares""" rare items, you gotta keep a fair and steady pace.

I think PSU's rare system was pretty annoying half the time, but PSP2's rare drop rates felt pretty fair plus it had a lot of rares to go with it, though it WAS on a handheld too. So for fairness it could be a little bit under those rates to compensate how broken it'd be to have 4 people after a weapon WITH the ability to trade them.

I think I'm late to some random argument so I probably said something that was already said-whatever.

Yeah I'm going to spoiler tag my exaggerated ranting and shit talking now, since people here take me a little too seriously... e_e;

[RemiusTA]

could you trade rares in PSP2?



But I thought your experience with PS has been an altruistic Shangri La where party members would gladly give up a weapon for the greater good?

Not about to google the phrase "Shangri La" because i've never heard it before and im lazy. And, uh, yeah for the most part, i'd say about 70% of the people i've played PSO with gladly give lower rares to lower players. Or will trade them for a fair price. It didn't happen on PSU, but nobody really asked on PSU because items were alot tighter on that game and failure rates were damn near commonplace. However, my argument isn't "EVERYONE IS SUPER NICE", my argument is that the people on this game aren't these bitchy evil guys who constantly bully you like you keep preaching to me about.


But in all truth i really do not care, and don't feel like responding to any more opinions on the drop methods. If all trading is allowed, then YES, the drop rates will probably be lowered in order to compensate for one enemy having a chance of dropping 1-4 drops each. Otherwise this game will be shit easy, and no team will ever be scarce on ANY resources. Everyone could clear a room, pick up the drops, re-drop them on the ground again, and watch the ground be littered with an abundance. Don't feel like doing the math, but they might just multiply the drop rate by the number of members in your party, which would generally squash the idea of 1 enemy dropping 4 trimates or red boxes or whatever.

So a 1/100 chance on universal drops becomes a 1/400 chance. But with 4 instances (4/400 == 1/100) it still equates to the original drop rate Or something. It'll just be hilarious to see what that 1/142512 chance becomes. This game better have a ton of rares.

If not, and the scenario above is possible and they do something STUPID like not allow you to drop items that you pick up, or you're only able to have your drops be universal through trade....well, once again, I told you so. But if not, well HEY at least you don't have anyone to bitch to when someone snatches up your precious red box that was so totally yours. (That was on Random anyway -_- )

This is a stupid argument.

[NoiseHERO]

could you trade rares in PSP2?

You could trade rares but not S ranks.

Infact most of my favorite rares are A rank so far...

But yeah that's why said PSO2 could notch it down a little for ours to balance it. Just not enough to kill the entire concept of my 400% drop boost.

[RenzokukenZ]

I'm assuming you're going by JP drops, since the Western version had a (non-specified) drop boost.

[NoiseHERO]

I'm assuming you're going by JP drops, since the Western version had a (non-specified) drop boost.

You're not talking to me are you? o_o

By 400% drop boost I meant having a 4 man party, with tradeable rares, and everyone getting their own drops, and in PSO2.

[RemiusTA]

You could trade rares but not S ranks.


Are you fucking serious? MAN im glad i never got into that game.

[RenzokukenZ]

That math doesn't seem right.

Even if, say, a Rockbear had a 1/100 chance to drop a rare, and you had a 4-man party, it wouldn't necessarily mean that you'll have a high drop boost. Everyone will have a random chance to get the item, just like in PSP2/I. So for the most part, you'll still be independant on your own chances.

Yes, the odds of everyone or at least a majority getting the rare is there, but the chances are so slim.

[RemiusTA]

But it still takes one instance of the monster and multiplies it by 4. Whereas before there was a 1/100 chance of it dropping, there is now a 4/100 chance of it dropping, since it'll run the probability 4 times with a full party. In total, universally, it's now a 1/25 chance that the enemy will drop the item to SOMEBODY, as opposed to a 1/100 chance if the drops were universal in the first place (and the drop would go to only one person anyway.)

It won't affect you (unless someone drops it), but the fact still stands that if the drop rates arent changed, there will be substantially more items in circulation in the servers. More meseta will drop, more rares will drop, everything. And Inflation is never a fun thing.


Like i said, the math may be wrong, i may be ignoring some principle that i don't know because i hate math. But it isn't very hard to comprehend i guess.

[Macman]

Judging by how impossible some of PSZ's items were to get even with the online boost and with a full party, I don't have high hopes. Enjoy a cutthroat trade community in PSO2. Suffice to say, four rolls of 1/100 is NOT the same as 1/25, gambler's fallacy and all.

[RemiusTA]

Better than a cutthroat party who steals your items screws your sister and pees on your pillow, eh?

And i reiterate, dont know if my math is correct. Regardless it's obvious that 4 rolls of 1/100 is...well 4 times higher than 1.

[Macman]

I only had that problem ONCE back on official PSO:BB with a called drop that the entire party agreed to beforehand. The culprit's guild gave him so much crap for doing it that I got the item back the next day.
If it never drops at all, well, that's an entirely different story.

[NoiseHERO]

With the rares being independent, it all still really depends on whose willing to share/trade.

It would be more like rolling a 100 sided dice 4 times in a row till you get what you want, compared to rolling a 25 sided dice once(Yeah I know that sounds retarded)

Though I'm also unsure if that would change anything thinking about it mathematicall...

So the only thing I'm REALLY seeing still is "supports playing with your friends."

[RenzokukenZ]

And i reiterate, dont know if my math is correct. Regardless it's obvious that 4 rolls of 1/100 is...well 4 times higher than 1.

It would still be 4 individual rolls, though. It's not like each person gets 4 rolls instead of 1.

[Macman]

Statistically, there's diminishing returns when it comes to repeated attempts at a random outcome. If I rolled that 100 sided die twice, I would not have a 2% chance that one of the rolls would wind up being the number I wanted. It would more be along the lines of 1.9something%
At 100 rolls, my overall odds of ONE of those rolls being what I want would statistically only be around 65%.

That's why that one item you spent weeks hunting for finally drops in a nondescript random run. At least that was the case with my Lavis Cannon.

[NoiseHERO]

I've actually never grinded for a rare in my life...

Usually I just get lucky and find it after a few runs.

Or if I don't, I just look for the next one, or go help a friend.

[ShinMaruku]

I've actually never grinded for a rare in my life...

Usually I just get lucky and find it after a few runs.

Or if I don't, I just look for the next one, or go help a friend.

Same here. I just get it when it comes.

[RemiusTA]

Only rare i ever grinded for, ever, in any PS game, was Psycho Wand from PSU.

[Randomness]

Statistically, there's diminishing returns when it comes to repeated attempts at a random outcome. If I rolled that 100 sided die twice, I would not have a 2% chance that one of the rolls would wind up being the number I wanted. It would more be along the lines of 1.9something%
At 100 rolls, my overall odds of ONE of those rolls being what I want would statistically only be around 65%.

That's why that one item you spent weeks hunting for finally drops in a nondescript random run. At least that was the case with my Lavis Cannon.

And at infinite rolls, your odds are 100%. That is, keep looking and you're guaranteed to get it eventually. Eventually.

Not much consolation though, is it?

[Macman]

Only rare i ever grinded for, ever, in any PS game, was Psycho Wand from PSU.Isn't that comparatively easy since you can just synth it yourself? I never played PSU online.

[Grimhart]

Isn't that comparatively easy since you can just synth it yourself? I never played PSU online.

Yeah, you had to synth the weapon by using the synth board plus the required ingredients. Which basically meant that you first had to grind for the weapon's "instruction manual" to drop, and THEN you had to grind for all the wood pieces, gemstones and photon drops to build the weapon. AND THEN you had to wait and hope the synth didn't just fail and completely nullify all the previous efforts. ^^;

[NoiseHERO]

Yeah, you had to synth the weapon by using the synth board plus the required ingredients. Which basically meant that you first had to grind for the weapon's "instruction manual" to drop, and THEN you had to grind for all the wood pieces, gemstones and photon drops to build the weapon. AND THEN you had to wait and hope the synth didn't just fail and completely nullify all the previous efforts. ^^;

That's one thing I hated in PSP2...

They took out synthing, but then decided to add default elements to guns and rods, like striking weapons have.

So you had to find the one you wanted AND it was another 1/7 chance to get the element you want, added on top of it being a good percent or not. AND S RANK WEAPONS AREN'T TRADEABLE.

At that point I stopped caring about elements.

though this isn't a handheld and it's not overrun by hackers,(as far as we know) so I'm sure they won't play us dirty with a no-trade policy thingie.

[RemiusTA]

If they do, i probably wont even bother with the shit

[Zorafim]

At that point I stopped caring about elements.

It took you that long?

[NoiseHERO]

It took you that long?

I mean before I only used neutral in PSU, or whatever color I thought looked coolest on a weapon.

Now I just stop caring about the color altogether.

So technically I never cared about the element's uses...

[Selphea]

though this isn't a handheld and it's not overrun by hackers,(as far as we know) so I'm sure they won't play us dirty with a no-trade policy thingie.

They actually do account binding for a lot of good stuff on the PC-only JP PSU

[NoiseHERO]

They actually do account binding for a lot of good stuff on the PC-only JP PSU

Those were like ultra rare/event/whatever stuff though, That's reasonable...

But every S rank untradeable... PSP2 ONLY got away with it for me becuase it was a handheld. @_@

I rather they make it so you can't trade rare weapons you've equipped. (specifically rare only so that you can still toss people weapons they might need for a situation they weren't prepared for and be all like "I NEED THAT GUN BACK AFTER THIS BOSS IS DEAD *ACTION HERO VOICE*)