Update on the official site (9/19/2011)

[Spellbinder]

Unfortunately I don't have time to translate it, but as mentioned at the game show they've released a lot of statistics about the game and survey they ran relating to the alpha test. Just thought I'd give people a heads up. If anyone else here can read / translate, feel free.

http://pso2.jp/game/

Edit:

There's a note under the results of the survey saying they will explain in further detail and post it on the main page in the future.

Looks like it's be translated by someone. Putting the quote on the first post for easy access.



Doesn't seem like anyone has noticed here yet, but Ricardo, the one and only savior of humanity, has translated and given an overview of that page on his site.

http://bumped.org/psublog/alpha-test-data/

Go praise him.

[Cayenne]

2 of those charts have already been translated but the rest, WOW, i wonder what it is. SOMEONE TRANSLATE!

Thx for the heads up.

Edit: Two charts someone on here already translated:
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2684967&postcount=82
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2684957&postcount=72

[Mracless]

Oh oh! Let me do the easy part!

http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm416/Mracless/Characterbreakdown.jpg

Yeah! Get in there!

Look at all those Josei characters! Everyone wanted in on the boob sliding action.

[Cayenne]

HAHAHA at the selection of people picking female!

I'm surprised Human was picked more but I wonder, does human females give you an option to get bigger breast than Newman? That's the only thing I can think of why it was picked more.

Kuddos for the translation Mracless.

[Positive]

I was sure they preferred lolis.

[D-Inferno]

Besides the wide gender difference, players seem to prefer the "primary" choice(Hunters, Human). Though I guess Japan loves Newearls too, but hates Newms(I hope this doesn't mean FOnewm gets screwed over statistically compared to FOnewearl).

[Mracless]

Sun 00's point about hunters is very valid. Hunter was the most common class and some people might have wanted the best stats.

But I'm not not so sure.
If I'm not mistaken, humans were the most popular race in PSU and PSP2/i from statistics we've seen for those.
It's possible that human beings might like humans! :-o

[•Col•]

WHOA. Surprised to see Male Newman so low....

I thought for sure Male Cast was the least picked....

[RemiusTA]

If they did a height reading, im pretty positive 98% of the fucking characters were under 4'3".

[BIG OLAF]

If they did a height reading, im pretty positive 98% of the fucking characters were under 4'3".

^This. It's a certainty that probably 4/5 female characters out of that 71.5% were made to look as though they were 12 years old...with E-cup breasts.

[RenzokukenZ]

I'm sure the reason why Casts had low numbers was due to the limited customization they had compared to the other races.

Hunter was the popular class because heroes prefer swords.

And as for the low number of Newman Males, it doesn't surprise me. They're so deep in the shadows that only 3-4 male Newmans exist as story character throughout the entire PS saga. Maybe a couple more if EP.3 had any.

[RemiusTA]

There were like 4 Newman Females in EPIII, and like 2 Newman males.

It's not fair to look at it that way though, as Newman Males were only avaliable in one class anyway -- both of the EpIII newman males were Fonewms. Females had 2 Hunewearls and 2 Fonewearls.

[Dinosaur]

Realistically, in the Alpha, Hunter had the most usability out of all the classes. HU had two specific weapons for its class, while the others only had one. The gunslash is probably best on Hunter, too.

[Kazzi]

I have so much respect for Sega now. It great to see they're seriously listening to feedback and sharing it with the community.

[NoiseHERO]

I'm still hoping they actually make cast armor that you know...

Actually makes sense for both society AND combat...

Even if it's only kireeks outfit for now or something. e_e

Doesn't make sense at all to be dodge-rolling and climbing trees in the jungle, when you're wearing fucking bulky deceptacon wing zero armor. Or pretending to drink tea with your forbidden love newman fiance, and her baby cousin at "space mcdonalds" or some shit. when you have missles sticking out of your knee caps.

Just make one sleek outfit! Lay off the giant robo fetish for just one outfit! I wanna be a power ranger in a business suit already! D<

[RenzokukenZ]

Doesn't make sense at all to be dodge-rolling and climbing trees in the jungle, when you're wearing fucking bulky deceptacon wing zero armor. Or pretending to drink tea with your forbidden love newman fiance, and her baby cousin at "space mcdonalds" or some shit. when you have missles sticking out of your knee caps.

Just make one sleek outfit! Lay off the giant robo fetish for just one outfit! I wanna be a power ranger in a business suit already! D<

The same could be said about fighting legions of enemies while wearing a battlesuit that offers little to no actual protection, but that tree has been beaten down to the ground many times over already.

If the availability is anything like in PSU, then there shouldn't be any problem going for that style you crave.



It's not fair to look at it that way though, as Newman Males were only avaliable in one class anyway -- both of the EpIII newman males were Fonewms. Females had 2 Hunewearls and 2 Fonewearls.

On the flip side, PSU/P/P2/I allowed anyone to be anything, and yet storywise there were only 2 1/2 newman males. It just seemed odd.

[NoiseHERO]

The same could be said about fighting legions of enemies while wearing a battlesuit that offers little to no actual protection, but that tree has been beaten down to the ground many times over already.

If the availability is anything like in PSU, then there shouldn't be any problem going for that style you crave.

Tell that to the fleshies. I'm just saying I want the diversity, right now ALL I'm seeing is gundams. Meanwhile female casts already have a female version of what I'd be happy with.

That whole set up is like stereotyping, sexism, and fanservice all mashed into one! Which makes it disgusting!

And if anything, this pattern started pretty much at the 2nd half of PSU's current lifespan! WHICH IS WHY IT'S BUGGING ME!

[RenzokukenZ]

That pattern has been around in games for the longest time that its become a silent requirement. Whether its a well-endowed woman wearing nothing but strings, a majority of female characters stuck as 'damsels in distress', or big black guys named Coal. But I digress.

With the news of Cast customization getting upgraded even further, the numbers for them may go up during the Beta stages. Some more available parts would be nice as well.

[tkdyo]

but...but...I love gundams >< I dont really get the point of playing a robot if you just want to make it look like a human.

BUT, seriously I agree they need all the customization the other races enjoy, so Im glad they are getting that!

[Vashyron]

That chart isn't really surprising to me.

Hunters being the majority have always been the case as I can remember since PSO forward.

Females being the Majority isn't really a surprise considering the audience. (Watch as someone calls that a ignorant insult.)

Humans always seemed pretty popular, though they did take a hit for being generally out done by other races in PSU. (Made worse by no Special trait, though finally got Mirage Blasts in PSP and SUVs in PSU.)

And Male Newmans being near extinct has been the case more so since PSU, majority of people don't seem to be interested.


On this current Cast Discussion, I think at this point I'll be happy as long as most of the parts don't make you look like a giant refrigerator, not too much of a fan of fleshy casts though.

[Reksanden]

but...but...I love gundams >< I dont really get the point of playing a robot if you just want to make it look like a human.

BUT, seriously I agree they need all the customization the other races enjoy, so Im glad they are getting that!

Well, this Is a case where 'd say, "More is better". They should have both options to look like a gundam AND how casts used to be. That way everyones happy. Except the haters, but thats a given.

[NoiseHERO]

I'm not saying make em fleshie, I'm saying make them sleek, portable, compact, smooth, easy to maneuver, NOT A GUNDAM.

What we have:

http://www.botjunkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/go_onger_robot_bandai.jpg

What we could/should also have:

http://images.wikia.com/kamenrider/images/4/4e/Kamen-Rider-Dark-Decade.jpg

What would definitely make me play a cast:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_El1G16-8JyI/TMdOBJO7I1I/AAAAAAAAAcU/TLD8DJ0HrC0/s1600/daft_punk_narrowweb__300x452,2.jpg

[RemiusTA]

Not happening, Michaeru. This is japan. Lolis, A-cups, Gundams, Moe or GTFO.

All originality from that country was lost years ago. Im starting to hate their shit for the very reason i left ours to watch theirs for in the first place.

[Zyrusticae]

Originality is overrated anyways.

Hipsters can go to hell for all I care. :roll:

[RemiusTA]

Which is why Anime, Jrpgs and videogames in general are trash now.

[BIG OLAF]

Which is why Anime, Jrpgs and videogames in general are trash now.

If that's what you believe, that's all well and good. But, everyone has different tastes. I highly doubt Gears 3, Skyrim, Diablo III, Batman: Arkham City, Mass Effect 3, etc., are going to be "trash."

[Zyrusticae]

I'm sorry, but, what are you trying to say?

Are you trying to say that going for originality automatically improves the execution?

Or are you just ignoring the fact that originality has absolutely fuck-all to do with how something is executed?

[•Col•]

If that's what you believe, that's all well and good. But, everyone has different tastes. I highly doubt Gears 3, Skyrim, Diablo III, Batman: Arkham City, Mass Effect 3, etc., are going to be "trash."

I think he meant Japanese video games.... And he'd be correct.

Just look at the list of games you provided...

Anyway, these numbers have kinda convinced me to make a Beast-looking Male Newman as my main character...

[BIG OLAF]

I think he meant Japanese video games.... And he'd be correct.

Just look at the list of games you provided...

Oh, I suppose that might be true. I wouldn't really know, anyway; I don't follow Japanese anime and/or video game culture at all (outside of Phantasy Star).

[Vashyron]

One of the gripes I have with those companies these days is them not putting a lot effort in a game (or anime) but then dump it with fanservice, moe, exaggerated Mechs, etc. It still does well regardless because there is a good audience for that. So it gives them extra incentive to not try to do something else, why would they?

Hmm, probably shaking the Otaku Beehive. :wacko:

[RemiusTA]

If that's what you believe, that's all well and good. But, everyone has different tastes. I highly doubt Gears 3, Skyrim, Diablo III, Batman: Arkham City, Mass Effect 3, etc., are going to be "trash."

I specifically meant japanese games, but in general there are few games im interested in.

I was never a Batman fan, im never getting into another click-style MMORPG, I never played Mass Effect 1 (and my xbox is now broken) and for that same reason i can't get Gears 3 (which i'd preorder if i fucking could), and Skyrim is the FIRST in ANY of the elder scrolls series that makes me even mildly interested, since the characters aren't animated like some fucking Phillips CD-I shit like in Morrowind/Oblivion.


I'm sorry, but, what are you trying to say?

Are you trying to say that going for originality automatically improves the execution?

Or are you just ignoring the fact that originality has absolutely fuck-all to do with how something is executed? What are YOU trying to say? Well, aside from baiting me into some stupid, stupid ass argument about our opinions on originality? Originality has nothing to do with execution, but it's usually those who are original who get the execution down right in the first place.

And I don't have to explain that to you -- do some thinking, and look at some of the best titles in the past and see for yourself. This generation of videogames have become far too scary to try anything new, or something that is seen as "outdated" or even "not up-to-date" -- i mean just look at how many times these dipshit critics are going to rag on Zelda for not including Voice Acting.


For instance: PSO2 didn't include Jumping because it was the "next logical step" in PSO's gameplay. They MOST LIKELY included Jumping because they didn't want to deal with the complaints of "THIS IS A NEW GAME WITHOUT JUMPING WTF IS THIS SHIT OMG ITS GONNA SUCK BLAHLABNSDLASADJGAFGF I CAN JUMP IN [some random unrelated shitty game or possibly a game not even in the same genre] WHY CANT I JUMP IN THIS GAME".

Not that it was a bad thing.



Videogames are becoming like hollywood. They jump on the bandwagon and ride it until there is nothing left. I can't stand shooters, i can't stand RPGs that ignore even the NOTION of a "Fixed Camera", I can't stand horrible voice acting, i can't stand people who take ideas from other games and place them in stupid ass areas....


...has the QTE even evolved a LITTLE BIT Since Shenmue made it popular? Have FPS's evolved even a smidget WITHOUT the help of Bungie? Will JRPGs EVER actually include something more than Fighting, Towns and Cutscenes again? Will WRPGs ever NOT have shitty animations and boring ass conversations with terribly static camera angles tons of redundant ass questions and enough voice acting to fill 50 TV series? Will good platformers ever exist again without the help of Nintendo? (where's my Crash Bandicoot 2 god dammit) Will Beat-em-ups finally put some variety in their combat PAST the fucking base engine they built the game on? (Hoping PSO2 doesn't fall into this category)

[NoiseHERO]

...has the QTE even evolved a LITTLE BIT Since Shenmue made it popular? Have FPS's evolved even a smidget WITHOUT the help of Bungie? Will JRPGs EVER actually include something more than Fighting, Towns and Cutscenes again? Will WRPGs ever NOT have shitty animations and boring ass conversations with terribly static camera angles tons of redundant ass questions and enough voice acting to fill 50 TV series? Will good platformers ever exist again without the help of Nintendo? (where's my Crash Bandicoot 2 god dammit) Will Beat-em-ups finally put some variety in their combat PAST the fucking base engine they built the game on? (Hoping PSO2 doesn't fall into this category)

The world is ruled by stupid people, and that's the audience...

So until people's tastes finally change outside of the underground. Or the economy stops sucking enough for videogame companies to try new things again.

Probably no...

Wonder how the indie game scene is looking...

[Vashyron]

Look at this trough the companies view. Example Activition with COD, milking it to hell with a new game every once in a while with absurd DLC prices, but hey it's selling well, very well.

What is their (or any other company's) incentive to turn away from that yet if it's selling so well?

[Zyrusticae]

The thing with video games is entirely because of the massive budgets involved.

If you want to see people taking risks, you have to look to the Indie scene. Big publishers are ruled by executives who think entirely in business terms; things like "innovation" fall under "business risk" to them, so of course they always stick with the tried and true every single time. (Of course, this means they often hilariously fail to read trends properly and realize when it's time to let the ol' dog sleep. See: WoW clones).

And I fail to see how discussing (not arguing, not even necessarily debating) originality is somehow "stupid". I'm beginning to think you've been poisoned by the internet and should really stay away from it, seeing as how you are really averse to any kind of discussion at all...

[RemiusTA]

HAHAHA, Zyrusticae...you of all people to talk about not being able to debate without an argument is a joke in itself.

And, uh, im aware of why it's become that way. I said they're too scary to make any moves. It doesn't make it any better, though.

[Enforcer MKV]

Hmm, probably shaking the Otaku Beehive. :wacko:

Buzz....buzz....buzz....buzz.....

Meh, I love Gundams and all, but I can understand why people would want something less bulky. I just hope they have some decent caseal parts that get added in. I like the ones that they showed, but then I saw the Focaseal, and I was like "...cleavage...how unexpected."

Anyway, FOcast looks awesome!

[Zyrusticae]

HAHAHA, Zyrusticae...you of all people to talk about not being able to debate without an argument is a joke in itself.

And, uh, im aware of why it's become that way. I said they're too scary to make any moves. It doesn't make it any better, though.
Well, I'm sorry you think my attempts to better myself are laughable. :???:

Have to start somewhere, y'know. It starts with being able to take a step back and examine one's own behavior. It helps to not be weighed down by past mistakes (but I can already see that, at least on this board, that is literally impossible as anyone and everyone will not-so-helpfully bury you in it).

But anyways... that was rather a non-sequitur. You first went on about lack of originality being why Japanese media products are becoming subpar, and then you went on to speak about how games in general are lacking in originality... which has little-to-nothing to do with their quality.

So, y'know, I'm not even sure where to go with this. ^^;

[Enforcer MKV]

Meh, it's ok, not everyone judges solely on past experiences....

Anywho, anybody want a smore? I can make s'more, if you want.

ZING!

[RemiusTA]

People take stuff serious. The frequency at which we bump heads seems almost be be due to bias, although it's not nearly as bad as it used to be. At least nobody is throwing direct insults.

Well, aside from me burying you in your past mistakes and me needing to stay away from the internet.


And i saw wat u did there MKV

[Randomness]

I'm still hoping they actually make cast armor that you know...

Actually makes sense for both society AND combat...

Even if it's only kireeks outfit for now or something. e_e

Doesn't make sense at all to be dodge-rolling and climbing trees in the jungle, when you're wearing fucking bulky deceptacon wing zero armor. Or pretending to drink tea with your forbidden love newman fiance, and her baby cousin at "space mcdonalds" or some shit. when you have missles sticking out of your knee caps.

Just make one sleek outfit! Lay off the giant robo fetish for just one outfit! I wanna be a power ranger in a business suit already! D<

Well, it would have to be HUcast style builds for that, a light armor design of some sort. Because heavy armor is invariably going to be mecha style (Because, let's face it, it's moderately realistic and also cool looking).

[Ancient]

RemiusTA, Vashyron, Michaeru ... I love you for every point you've made in this thread, cause it means I don't have to write them myself.
I have SO much hope for this game to be great. But I have SO little faith in Japanese developers to put out a good title. I pray they can prove me wrong. And that they deign the US worthy of a release.

[ShinMaruku]

If they did a height reading, im pretty positive 98% of the fucking characters were under 4'3".

You guys are just as terrible as those guys. XD
That said they recruited from the moe crowd since they pay more than the standard crowd.

[Cayenne]

So where's the translation for the rest of the site?

[Spellbinder]

As I said in the OP I don't have time, but I can try to squeeze in time in a day or so if no one else steps forward.

[Zyrusticae]

RemiusTA, Vashyron, Michaeru ... I love you for every point you've made in this thread, cause it means I don't have to write them myself.
I have SO much hope for this game to be great. But I have SO little faith in Japanese developers to put out a good title. I pray they can prove me wrong. And that they deign the US worthy of a release.
Y'know, when you put it that way, that sounds kinda... well... racist. ;-)

So, what, no love for Bayonetta? Vanquish? Demon's Souls (yes, by a Japanese developer, believe it or not)? Castlevania: LoS? BlazBlue? Resident Evil 5? Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2? Tekken 6? ...Catherine? And you can hate on Capcom's business practices all you want, but they've been doing pretty well on their fighting games lately...

Honestly, I don't think them being Japanese is really that important. What's more important is whether or not Sega has got their shit together as a company, not whether or not Japanese developers as a whole have begun to spiral down a path of self-indulgent nonsense.

[Cayenne]

As I said in the OP I don't have time, but I can try to squeeze in time in a day or so if no one else steps forward.

Dude, I'm not rushing you at all, sorry if it sounded that way. If anyone has some free time and wants to do it then here here!

[NoiseHERO]

Well, it would have to be HUcast style builds for that, a light armor design of some sort. Because heavy armor is invariably going to be mecha style (Because, let's face it, it's moderately realistic and also cool looking).

Yes exactly even pso's hucast was sensible, I understand racast having the tank look.

But-whatever I'm not playing as a freakin' code geass mech. that's all. and in both psu and pso I didn't have to.

[RenzokukenZ]

Which reminds me, have they revealed any outfits/parts outside of the 'default' ones?

[NoiseHERO]

Which reminds me, have they revealed any outfits/parts outside of the 'default' ones?

There was that one, with the partisan or sum shit, I'm sure the character had tits but it looked like fonewms outfit minus the huge ass. So I'm assuming it's a new outfit.

[Nitro Vordex]

fonewms outfit minus the huge ass.
I don't think my mind can comprehend this. :wacko:

[•Col•]

There was that one, with the partisan or sum shit, I'm sure the character had tits but it looked like fonewms outfit minus the huge ass. So I'm assuming it's a new outfit.

HUmarl.

It's the same one they chose in the new character creation video from TGS.

[Ancient]

Y'know, when you put it that way, that sounds kinda... well... racist. ;-)

I'm okay with sounding racist. I don't even feel the need to defend against it. Although I do find it interesting that in all those "good" Japanese games, you didn't mention a single Nintendo franchise. Especially since I don't think any of those games you listed got much better than 8's in reviews, to Mario Galaxy's tons of 9's and 10's.

At the risk of sounding even further like someone who makes overly grand assumptions; isn't funny how many people don't even think of Nintendo as a "Japanese" company? I mean durrrr~ it's IN Japan, but when you think of "Japanese" games you immediately go for Capcom, Konami, Nippon Ichi or something similar.
Maybe cause Nintendo games are more universal in taste. Zelda games don't feature Link as the master of a harem of E-cup loli's with massive upskirt, eating pocky while defending their highschool from evil techno espers that could be themselves from the future where love has turned to darkness due to the obtuse evils of mankind.

There I go again...I think I kinda lost my point in the fun of writing that sentence. Oh well...

[RemiusTA]

HUmarl.

wait- that was a chick?

[Zyrusticae]

I just want to mention that I didn't mention Nintendo because I don't own a Wii and didn't own a Gamecube and thus haven't played anything made by them in years.

And by extension, I haven't noticed anything released by them since. They may as well not exist to me.

[Ancient]

Fair enough. I really only have mine for Smash Bros. :P

[RemiusTA]

i played mario galaxy 2 once in walmart

It was one of my best gaming moments in the last 3 years, honestly. Next to me downloading FF7 again after not playing it since elementary/middleschool and beating it again just to realize how NOT overrated it was.

Edit:

Oh yeah, and recently downloading Breath of Fire 4 on PSN, since 3 was like my first and favorite RPG ever and i never bought 4 back when i had a PSX.


I want the fucking 90s - early 2000's back man

[Cayenne]

So can anyone else translate the rest of what the website says?

[Zorafim]

I always cry when I hear that someone hasn't played any Nintendo Wii games. Those are the only games I've loved of the current generation.

Also, Breath of Fire is win. All four of them. Though I still need to play 4 for myself, I only ever saw a friend play it.

[Lock]

male casts are really down.....

[ShadowDragon28]

I hope Sakai's team will add PSO style male Cast parts, or parts based on the Wren andriods from Phantasy Star III and Phantasy Star IV... a Cast resembling the Searen (PsII Wren) and Forren (Ps IV Wren) would be awesome IMO.

[Keilyn]

Humans tend to be more visually appealing than the other races, but "balanced and average" in areas. You then deal with newearl and caseal looks blended with their subculture. PSU pissed me off in shafting newmans into being a stereotypical spellcasting race....

To me, any game has a better representation of newmans than PSU does.

Edit: I didn't want to doublepost...so here is something on shooters:

1993: First Shooter - Doom 1 released with 4 player multiplayer.
1998: Half-life is released. Unreal Engine 1 is developed and Unreal 1 is released.
1999: Half-Life Mod Codenamed Counter-Strike released, Team Fortress, Quake 3 Arena and UT released. (lots of gametypes and mods too)
2000: Official Counterstrike Game released. Deus Ex released.
2001: DXMP released, Halo released.
2002: MoHAA released (This brought larger maps into multiplayers)
2003: Unreal Tournament 2003 (Wider Open Maps, better map design.
2004: Doom 3, Half Life 2, UT 2004, Halo 2 (Each of these games did something new to the genre)

Doom 3 was the first game to run PPHD on all models. HL 2 had by far one of the most intelligent mapping approaches to the point it is now the Standard in singleplayer mapping design, while the maps of UT 2004 became a Standard of map-designs for Multiplayer Game. Halo series was the first to use a mixed-series design for SP and MP.

2007: Unreal Tournament III, Crysis I, Modern Warfare I (The three had a huge impact.....specially what Crysis did under the hood. To me this was the first real UT 3 Engine game while Gears of War that came before was just an Engine Showcase Test. Modern Warfare Multiplayer increased to larger numbers in maps and had a way of singleplayer storytelling. Modern Warfare I really revived Class-Style Playing into Multiplayer)

2008: Crysis Warhead (First Game to support Eight Cores, second with a 64 bit mode to increase performance...Completely optimized engine that had more potential than Crysis I and efficiency)
2008: Combat Arms was released as the first FREE TO PLAY FPS game with a built in Cash-Shop that players would buy things (and offered permament buying) which became popular with its own crowd. If you want to blame one game for microtransactions in the shooter genre...its definately this one)
2009: Modern Warfare II (This one is here because of the multiplayer controversy it started around the world)

Today, FPS games now have their style...There are MANY games I did not mention, but to give you an example...Today we have

Deus Ex Human Revolution (TPS)
Bullet Storm
Rage (coming soon I think under a NEW engine by I.D)

All shooters with something different in them in playstyle.

We finally are seeing a new design approach in shooters, some branching out too...I could play a bunch of shooters and identify something different about their gameplay that really is something that belongs to them. In most RPGs and MMORPGs, outside of some unique weapon or cultural thing the action is almost the same. Action oriented RPGs are something that are branching out.

Remember, there are MORE RPGs and MMORPGs combined than all the shooter games combined out there. MMORPG.com has a list of 300+ MMORPGs and those are the games existing that have reached the US alone. Not counting the games which HAVE NOT REACHED yet. New Engines are being built for shooters as I write this with some new designs....I just hope they turn out to be good.

So how about PSO-2? Who knows since its a new engine....or its gameplay, but if its like PSO and PSU....they will spend LESS time on OPTIMIZING THE ENGINE FOR ITS PLAYERBASE and force people into buying MORE EXPENSIVE PARTS than they should to PLAY THE GAME and SPEND MORE TIME actually putting stuff in their game and cash shop. I hope it doesn't become another FFXIV.

[Mekimaru]

Iv notice now with the sliders you can make char look like kids tbh.. instead of short ppl which could be a issue somewhere =/

[Mracless]

Doesn't seem like anyone has noticed here yet, but Ricardo, the one and only savior of humanity, has translated and given an overview of that page on his site.

http://bumped.org/psublog/alpha-test-data/

Go praise him.

[Mekimaru]

Doesn't seem like anyone has noticed here yet, but Ricardo, the one and only savior of humanity, has translated and given an overview of that page on his site.

http://bumped.org/psublog/alpha-test-data/

Go praise him.

cool, thanks for the link Mracless :-P

[r00tabaga]

So still no mag ANYTHING? I haven't been here in a while cuz of football on the brain and stopped by to check up and I gotta say I have not missed much info. New city area is it huh? Ummmmkay.

[Spellbinder]

Updated the first post with the blog link. :)

[RemiusTA]

I always cry when I hear that someone hasn't played any Nintendo Wii games. Those are the only games I've loved of the current generation.

Also, Breath of Fire is win. All four of them. Though I still need to play 4 for myself, I only ever saw a friend play it.

4 is absolutely amazing, but dont waste your time playing it on an emulator. Get it off PSN if you are able.

Another mistake I made was neglecting Breath of Fire 5 (Dragon Quarter) when it released, because it was such a departure from the series. Most people never went anywhere near it for that reason.

Terrible idea. When i finally played it, i could hardly put it down. It's not only different for BoF, it's an entirely different RPG altogether. The storyline is just simple and captivating as the other ones, and the gameplay is unique to pretty much any RPG i've ever played.
[spoiler-box]

More importantly, there were design mechanics in that game that no RPG today would ever risk making. Including a Save/Death system that doesn't allow you to simply save and start over, and the Dragon Transformation mechanic that, if overused, could render your save file completely useless, forcing you to start the game over if you are unable to complete the game from your save file without the meter reaching 100%.

The added BONUS to this feature is that once Ryu obtains his Dragon powers...you're literally given the absolute power to completely destroy ANYTHING (no, seriously. Anything.) you face in the game, in ONE TURN if you so wished. But the drawback is that you can't overuse the power, or you lose the game. This actually forces you to use your power wisely, as a last resort, like you were actually put in that situation.


It was a feeling i've only gotten from that game. Some people didn't like it, but it was an enormous breath of fresh air for me.[/spoiler-box]

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

Humans tend to be more visually appealing than the other races, but "balanced and average" in areas. You then deal with newearl and caseal looks blended with their subculture. PSU pissed me off in shafting newmans into being a stereotypical spellcasting race....

To me, any game has a better representation of newmans than PSU does.Personally, I'm more familiar with the shafting from a metagame perspective. Since Newman girls were the best at spellcasting, every Force and their mother was a Newearl... and out of those, a great number of them looked like little girls.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyCTwhqup94

...And now I wanna make my main a HU/RA/FOnewm rather than a HU/RA/FOmar. Those evil empires shall tremble before my kawaii elfykins as they get shanked! Moo ha ha! ...Were there Shotatechers in PSU as well as Lolitechers (Other than the PM?)

[RemiusTA]

Humans tend to be more visually appealing than the other races, but "balanced and average" in areas. You then deal with newearl and caseal looks blended with their subculture. PSU pissed me off in shafting newmans into being a stereotypical spellcasting race....


....Why? They've been that way since PSO.

I dont see what the big deal is. If a race is genetically DESIGNED to be aimed at a specific category, i dont see what the deal is. It's mandatory in a game like this. Nobody wants to run around with a bunch of shitty reskins as characters. I'd like some variety with my characters. If that means taking a hit somewhere else, then i dont see an issue with that.


What you SHOULD have been mad at is PSU's complete neglect of unique racial animations or traits aside from number stats. That is one of the BIGGEST reasons Casts and Beasts ran the show in that game. Everything was based on stats, with not enough attention given to diversify the classes. If Newmans were shit weak and squishy, but had more efficient/speedy attacking and casting animations, perhaps we would have seen some diversity between them.



The reason everyone picked F Newman Force is because there was no reason to pick anything else. No technic bonuses, no special animations, no different weapon choices, no nothing. PSO2 is looking like it's going to quickly fall into that same category. People bitch and moan about wanting to play a Race/Sex combo outside of their usual Type Casting, or not being able to equip certain weapons....but they fail to realize it's that very idea of COMPLETE FREEDOM that's been destroying the gameplay of the different races in the first place. It was built around limitations. That's what made the traits you excelled at more important. Thats why i was against the whole "ANY RACE/SEX/CLASS COMBO FOR PSO2" because there is no fucking point. All that does is thin out the amount of things they can do to keep each class unique, and lessen the chance we'd see things like unique animations. (WELL WE SEE HOW THAT'S TURNING OUT.) It just forces the game into a metagame of type-casted roles. Just like PSU.



What the hell is going to be the point of a Cast Force in PSO2? What, is he going to be able to Hover and Cast at the same time or something? That's hardly enough to warrant the fact that he's going to have technique damage lower than Humans and especially Newmans. He can take more hits? Who gives a shit; the whole point of playing force is to not get hit anyway. Without any kind of special traits, it's just going to be the new Newman Female Fighmaster of PSO2.

[ShinMaruku]

Humarls are call girls.

[NoiseHERO]

....Why? They've been that way since PSO.

I dont see what the big deal is. If a race is genetically DESIGNED to be aimed at a specific category, i dont see what the deal is. It's mandatory in a game like this. Nobody wants to run around with a bunch of shitty reskins as characters. I'd like some variety with my characters. If that means taking a hit somewhere else, then i dont see an issue with that.


What you SHOULD have been mad at is PSU's complete neglect of unique racial animations or traits aside from number stats. That is one of the BIGGEST reasons Casts and Beasts ran the show in that game. Everything was based on stats, with not enough attention given to diversify the classes. If Newmans were shit weak and squishy, but had more efficient/speedy attacking and casting animations, perhaps we would have seen some diversity between them.



The reason everyone picked F Newman Force is because there was no reason to pick anything else. No technic bonuses, no special animations, no different weapon choices, no nothing. PSO2 is looking like it's going to quickly fall into that same category. People bitch and moan about wanting to play a Race/Sex combo outside of their usual Type Casting, or not being able to equip certain weapons....but they fail to realize it's that very idea of COMPLETE FREEDOM that's been destroying the gameplay of the different races in the first place. It was built around limitations. That's what made the traits you excelled at more important. Thats why i was against the whole "ANY RACE/SEX/CLASS COMBO FOR PSO2" because there is no fucking point. All that does is thin out the amount of things they can do to keep each class unique, and lessen the chance we'd see things like unique animations. (WELL WE SEE HOW THAT'S TURNING OUT.) It just forces the game into a metagame of type-casted roles. Just like PSU.



What the hell is going to be the point of a Cast Force in PSO2? What, is he going to be able to Hover and Cast at the same time or something? That's hardly enough to warrant the fact that he's going to have technique damage lower than Humans and especially Newmans. He can take more hits? Who gives a shit; the whole point of playing force is to not get hit anyway. Without any kind of special traits, it's just going to be the new Newman Female Fighmaster of PSO2.

I still think freedom is better, mostly cause I could care less if everyones going to take the sames routes to be the "best" at an already casual-non-competitive game.

Example = PSP2 and everyone and everything doing nothing but blade destruction, but at the same time WHO CARES as long as you're playing how YOU want. If anything it makes you MORE original unless yeah, truly feel "gimped" not being 100% of your class, in... a non-competitive casual hack-n-slash game...

Of course it's another story if you're a force-LOL UNBEARABLE

[RemiusTA]

I dont care because other people are doing their thing, i care because i want the game to keep its replay value. If there's no reason to make another character aside from the model itself having boobs, then what the hell is the point.

It has absolutely nothing to do with any competitive aspect of the game. But at the same time, when it's brought to light that your character is struggling for no reason because the developers didn't think ahead, it's still quite annoying.


A balanced game makes everyone have more fun. Allowing you to choose retarded classes is stupid -- why not just take that time and make the other classes a bit more dimensional?


Because let's be real here -- who actually expects them to give attention to things like this? All gameplay enhancements is see from here on that ARENT simple effect tweaks, animation speed changes, or something else similar (for balance purposes) would surprise the hell out of me.

[GCoffee]

There needs to be a point other than boobs?

...Since when?

[RemiusTA]

I don't know how to answer that question. I almost took it seriously. Probably because the idea of that ridiculous boob slider topic has actually stuck like it's an important feature of the game or something.

I guess people forgot you could do pretty much the same thing on PSU. Or that you'll be looking at the back of your character more than anything.

I could see if it was an ass slider.

[NoiseHERO]

I dont care because other people are doing their thing, i care because i want the game to keep its replay value. If there's no reason to make another character aside from the model itself having boobs, then what the hell is the point.

It has absolutely nothing to do with any competitive aspect of the game. But at the same time, when it's brought to light that your character is struggling for no reason because the developers didn't think ahead, it's still quite annoying.


A balanced game makes everyone have more fun. Allowing you to choose retarded classes is stupid -- why not just take that time and make the other classes a bit more dimensional?


Because let's be real here -- who actually expects them to give attention to things like this? All gameplay enhancements is see from here on that ARENT simple effect tweaks, animation speed changes, or something else similar (for balance purposes) would surprise the hell out of me.

I see what you mean for replay values, but I've never ever been fond of starting over or anything.

And personally I still prefer freedom over having to be either a pimp, a slut, a loli, a giant midget, The incredible hulk, optimus prime, and a human sized evangelion mech. to have the stats I want.

If anything I'm hoping this extended class system really does help us build our characters into some unique pathways. In the end everyones still playing for looks, and then you could just say it's be better to pick your own body langauges/styles/swagger for your characters.

Replaying the game? Then just do something different whether it's a different race/class/SWAGGUR or not.








Not like SEGA is going to give a shit about either scenario we could think of for improvement but yeah TL;DR ANYTHING but gender/race locked classes.

and wait theres no ass slider? I thought we could play god on EVERYTHING!

[Zyrusticae]

I dont care because other people are doing their thing, i care because i want the game to keep its replay value. If there's no reason to make another character aside from the model itself having boobs, then what the hell is the point.


Hmmmm.... Interesting.

Y'know, a talent/skill advancement system is 1000% superior for actual replay value than having the option to play another race/class combo that has one or two specific perks that may or may not make up for having subpar stats. Yes, sure, you could conceivably give certain race/class combos specific perks to give them something unique/give players a motive for trying them, but you COULD also just let individual players choose these perks on their own terms, and that would also increase variety, except by a much larger margin since they can now mix-and-match with impunity (though hopefully not with the ability to max everything out, since there's no choices then).

I don't really see the point in forcing choices with race in order to be optimal. And, indeed, in the case where you try to balance out the negatives with specific positives, there's no guarantee that they will actually reach an equilibrium with that - you're just as likely to end up with completely suboptimal choices again.

I would prefer that the races have minimal impact to prevent the occurence of developers absolutely failing to balance between them properly - remove the variable from the equation. If you have to balance race + gender + class, that's hard to do, literally six times as much work as just balancing class on its own. Realistically, it makes sense to minimize the effect of race outside of aesthetic considerations. Cutting down the workload can have massive cascading effects on the rest of the game's balance work.

As for the boob slider... okay, we get it, it's not that important to you. It's important to some of us, though. So, y'know... diff'rent strokes an' all that.

[Randomness]

As for the boob slider... okay, we get it, it's not that important to you. It's important to some of us, though. So, y'know... diff'rent strokes an' all that.

Not every guy's preferred size is "as large as it will let me make it"... the boob slider is good for them too!

[Angelo]

Not every guy's preferred size is "as large as it will let me make it"... the boob slider is good for them too!

True. This is one of the main reasons I think a lot of asian-made online games need body scaling; they tend to go crazy on the chest.

Perfect size to me is just a nice handful.

...hmm, now I'm starting to sound creepy.

[Cayenne]

Sorry it's so long...

Example = PSP2 and everyone and everything doing nothing but blade destruction, but at the same time WHO CARES as long as you're playing how YOU want.
Yeah do what you want until boredom quickly settles in.

I dont care because other people are doing their thing, i care because i want the game to keep its replay value.

A balanced game makes everyone have more fun.
If anyone forgets the replay value is what made PSO so popular then I'd suggest you take another look. This game is about doing the same shit over and over again and if you can do everything with one character then the game gets old fast. You need limits, limits are what makes a game interesting. Take any game and use cheat codes and the game becomes more fun because you are less restricted but it becomes stale and boring quick because you can do what you want.

You've all been there, we play a game longer with limits then being less restricted or use cheat codes.


I see what you mean for replay values, but I've never ever been fond of starting over or anything.
You have NEVER wanted to replay a game with other characters? Bullsh*t!

Not any 2D side scrollers, fighting games, MMOs, any game where you can pick 2 or more people? I'm not talking hypothetical nor technically.

If you have to balance race + gender + class, that's hard to do, literally six times as much work as just balancing class on its own. Realistically, it makes sense to minimize the effect of race outside of aesthetic considerations. Cutting down the workload can have massive cascading effects on the rest of the game's balance work.
Oh no, god help us if game companies have to put in more work to make a game worth playing. If they get lazy on game design, originality, depth, and the longevity of the game then that just shows poor workmanship.

They HAVE to put in every hour of work to be even close to what PSO did and that's make a game people will be playing for a LONG TIME. If the greatness last for a month or two (maybe weeks?) then all that time spent making the game has been wasted, especially for a game like this, and it becomes a game people onced played, not something they miss or used to love playing.

[Cayenne]

Also about the site:

Has anyone figured out what these mean/say?
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd75/xRomanticDeathx/Capture.png
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd75/xRomanticDeathx/Capture2.png

[Arkios]

Hmmmm.... Interesting.

Y'know, a talent/skill advancement system is 1000% superior for actual replay value than having the option to play another race/class combo that has one or two specific perks that may or may not make up for having subpar stats. Yes, sure, you could conceivably give certain race/class combos specific perks to give them something unique/give players a motive for trying them, but you COULD also just let individual players choose these perks on their own terms, and that would also increase variety, except by a much larger margin since they can now mix-and-match with impunity (though hopefully not with the ability to max everything out, since there's no choices then).

I don't really see the point in forcing choices with race in order to be optimal. And, indeed, in the case where you try to balance out the negatives with specific positives, there's no guarantee that they will actually reach an equilibrium with that - you're just as likely to end up with completely suboptimal choices again.

I would prefer that the races have minimal impact to prevent the occurence of developers absolutely failing to balance between them properly - remove the variable from the equation. If you have to balance race + gender + class, that's hard to do, literally six times as much work as just balancing class on its own. Realistically, it makes sense to minimize the effect of race outside of aesthetic considerations. Cutting down the workload can have massive cascading effects on the rest of the game's balance work.

As for the boob slider... okay, we get it, it's not that important to you. It's important to some of us, though. So, y'know... diff'rent strokes an' all that.

I disagree. WoW already has what you're talking about. Even though I hate to bring up the game, because it causes everyone to go off-topic

In any case, for those that haven't played WoW, it has all of the things being discussed here.

1) Each race in the game had specific perks called 'Racials'. None of them were game-breaking in the slightest bit, but they were cool to have and actually made you think hard about what race you chose.

Example:
One racial gave you a movement speed boost for like 10 seconds.
- This would be awesome in PSO if you plan on playing a hunter, since you need to be in melee range. Significantly less useful for a ranged class though.

Another racial gave you a free heal every like 3-5 minutes.
- This would be pretty useless on a Force, but would come in handy for someone like a Cast or someone that maybe wants to play Hunter (subbing Ranger).

2) Each gender was treated the same statistically, but had different animations. That way you weren't forced to play a male because the male hunter had more "Strength/Attack" than a female hunter.

This was cool because I could pick the gender based on looks exclusively, but they were still different looking and had different animations/voices. (In other words, a female Orc didn't look and feel like a reskinned male Orc with boobs.)

3) Classes were constantly balanced as new content was added. I really hope that PSO2 follows this.

I remember Forces being godly pre-Ultimate back in PSO and then falling off significantly once you got into Ultimate mode. Having class tweaks as the game progresses would be awesome and would keep people from jumping ship simply because their class is outperformed endgame by another class.

4) WoW had "Talent" trees, which worked just like the "Skill" trees that you see in PSO2 and other games.

The problem that I have with "Talent/Skill" trees, is that there really is no freedom with these trees. A lot of the abilities you pick up are junk and just filler that you're taking because you want a specific option further down the tree. There is ALWAYS a best route and 90% of the people will play using that route because you feel gimped if you don't.

It doesn't add to your character customization at all, it's really just one more thing to make leveling a little less boring. ("Yahoo! I leveled and get to spend a skill point!")

---------------------------

tl;dr: I really hope they bring back unique animations and class/race specific perks. It adds depth to the game and gives the game significant replay value.

[Dark_Heal_v2]

Also about the site:

Has anyone figured out what these mean/say?
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd75/xRomanticDeathx/Capture.png
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd75/xRomanticDeathx/Capture2.png

Ranking of most used skill

[Mracless]

Also about the site:

Has anyone figured out what these mean/say?
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd75/xRomanticDeathx/Capture.png
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd75/xRomanticDeathx/Capture2.png

First image is top 5 skills for each class.
Ricardo has translated them on his site. A link can be found in the first post of this thread.

He neglected to mention the second image there. I don't really know much Japanese, but I believe it's just saying 227,317,454 items dropped overall.

[Spellbinder]

That's meseta.

[WBMike]

ドロップしたメセタの累計額 The Total Amount of Meseta that dropped.

[Zyrusticae]

Oh no, god help us if game companies have to put in more work to make a game worth playing. If they get lazy on game design, originality, depth, and the longevity of the game then that just shows poor workmanship.

They HAVE to put in every hour of work to be even close to what PSO did and that's make a game people will be playing for a LONG TIME. If the greatness last for a month or two (maybe weeks?) then all that time spent making the game has been wasted, especially for a game like this, and it becomes a game people onced played, not something they miss or used to love playing.
I'm just being realistic here.

Do you really want them to spend hours upon hours working on something that is largely a cosmetic consideration when they could be spending that time on bigger-picture issues? Do you want to take the risk of the game being horribly unbalanced because they bit off more than they could chew?

Yes, sure, ideally they'd put just as much or more effort into the game than they did with the original PSO. But you have to consider that the game is already an order of magnitude more complex than the original PSO. The original did NOT have 'every race can be every class', did not have PAs, did not have jumping or dashing or blocking, did not graphics of this quality (this adds considerably to the development time all on its own), did not have massive battles with 12 players participating at once... it's a bigger game. Much, much bigger.

They arguably already have put a ton of work in as it is, even at the 50% stage. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they already eclipsed the original in sheer number of man-hours worked on it (IIRC, the crew is considerably larger now, too).

But, hey, if they CAN do something like that, all the power to them! I just know that, were I in charge, I'd be playing it safe and working to make the minute-to-minute gameplay as polished as can be, and less on trivialities like racial differentiation.


I disagree. WoW already has what you're talking about. Even though I hate to bring up the game, because it causes everyone to go off-topic

In any case, for those that haven't played WoW, it has all of the things being discussed here.

1) Each race in the game had specific perks called 'Racials'. None of them were game-breaking in the slightest bit, but they were cool to have and actually made you think hard about what race you chose.

Example:
One racial gave you a movement speed boost for like 10 seconds.
- This would be awesome in PSO if you plan on playing a hunter, since you need to be in melee range. Significantly less useful for a ranged class though.

Another racial gave you a free heal every like 3-5 minutes.
- This would be pretty useless on a Force, but would come in handy for someone like a Cast or someone that maybe wants to play Hunter (subbing Ranger).
Not even close to the same thing we were talking about.

Racials are fine. They have almost no actual impact on the game, especially at higher levels.

There is a huge difference between them and having racial penalties for things that aren't the races' niche, or having things like permanent animation speed bonuses. Those are things that drastically affect the game balance. Those are things that, developer intent or not, eventually pigeonhole people into specific race/class combinations just to get into groups.

Imagine if a race in WoW had a 0.2s reduction on all global cooldowns. That would be gamebreaking. That is my issue here.





2) Each gender was treated the same statistically, but had different animations. That way you weren't forced to play a male because the male hunter had more "Strength/Attack" than a female hunter.

This was cool because I could pick the gender based on looks exclusively, but they were still different looking and had different animations/voices. (In other words, a female Orc didn't look and feel like a reskinned male Orc with boobs.)
This is fine, if they can manage it. I have absolutely no problem with this.

I DO have a problem with this when they have massive gameplay ramifications, but that's it. If they can do it without making one race or gender better than they other, all the power to 'em!





3) Classes were constantly balanced as new content was added. I really hope that PSO2 follows this.

I remember Forces being godly pre-Ultimate back in PSO and then falling off significantly once you got into Ultimate mode. Having class tweaks as the game progresses would be awesome and would keep people from jumping ship simply because their class is outperformed endgame by another class.
You can say that, but, uh... I really don't think you'll get many people to agree WoW has ever been a paragon of game balance. Good luck with that!



4) WoW had "Talent" trees, which worked just like the "Skill" trees that you see in PSO2 and other games.

The problem that I have with "Talent/Skill" trees, is that there really is no freedom with these trees. A lot of the abilities you pick up are junk and just filler that you're taking because you want a specific option further down the tree. There is ALWAYS a best route and 90% of the people will play using that route because you feel gimped if you don't.

It doesn't add to your character customization at all, it's really just one more thing to make leveling a little less boring. ("Yahoo! I leveled and get to spend a skill point!")
It doesn't have to be that way. That is not at all something inherent to the system.

They already have a number of abilities in the trees that are game-changing - things like faster block recovery, the dash-attack, faster PP regen (don't know how MUCH faster, but I imagine it's substantial), and so on. These skills are considerably more effective than anything in WoW. I see no reason to believe they, alone, would be insufficient customization.

[Mracless]

Ah yes. Of course. If I had bothered to actually attempt to read it, there's メセタ, plain as day.

[Mike]

It still surprises me that dive roll advance ranked over skill up 2 and ranged damage up 1 for rangers.

[RemiusTA]

That's because these designers don't understand how to create a dodge mechanic that doesn't render the damn player invincible.



Not even close to the same thing we were talking about.

Racials are fine. They have almost no actual impact on the game, especially at higher levels.

There is a huge difference between them and having racial penalties for things that aren't the races' niche, or having things like permanent animation speed bonuses. Those are things that drastically affect the game balance. Those are things that, developer intent or not, eventually pigeonhole people into specific race/class combinations just to get into groups.

Imagine if a race in WoW had a 0.2s reduction on all global cooldowns. That would be gamebreaking. That is my issue here. Im curious as to whether you really understand what i was suggesting they'd do.


What i was suggesting is, each race/sex combo have a set of predetermined abilities (esp. Animations, because they are both visually appealing to look at and will drastically set apart the feeling of playing another character) That OFFSETS their weaknesses in the other areas. There's no reason for a Newman character to be a Hunter if he/she isn't an actual fighter. Therefore, were a Newman to be a Hunter, it would obviously never be as strong as a Human or a Cast. Instead, they can focus their strengths elsewhere -- speed, evasion, techniques, accuracy, ect.

Newmans are going to be the Force class. This is obvious. But since they can be any class, in PSO2, they need an edge in battle that >>> THE OTHER 2 RACES DO NOT HAVE AND CANNOT ATTAIN.<<< This, obviously, will mostly be centered around Technique use -- but for melee purposes, they can be made more efficient at specific weapons. This gives them a different stragety to fighting, as well as a completely different experience from playing a Humar or a Hucast. Casts are not even supposed to be able to use techniques, so they're probably going to be crappy forces for the most part. So, are we going to simply allow them to be "tank forces"? What's the fun in that? Give them something that would give them a special edge in Force gameplay that would keep them unique.

I'd suggest that Focasts be the the Casts equivalent of Hunewearl -- They're both on the complete opposite sides of their strength scale. Give them techniques, with some melee weapons to boot. Perhaps give them some off-hand casting perks. Like, instead of Foie with a Gunslash shooting a fireball, it's instead a lower range Fire Slash. Or some dumb shit. I dont know. But when they do that, they're kicking aside the original Fomarl schema. NOW what?


The only hope i see in INTERESTING pso2 balance between the classes and races is going to come from that Skill Tree. Since they seem (at this point) to be neglecting unique animations, perhaps different races will obtain different skills instead. For that to work best though, they'd need to go ahead and finally nix the Sex differences in stats, because at this point they'll just be a hindrance. Besides, Fonewem was the stronger force in PSO anyway. All im saying is....if this game doesn't come up with SOME kind of differences, and ends up being just the PSO2 version of PSU/PSP2's class system, then this game is once again just going to be a Type-casting fest. It would be absolutely unavoidable; if theres nothing to distinguish between the classes with but sheer numbers, then there technically would be no reason to choose a character outside of the maximums and minimums. -- Casts for hunters, Humans for rangers, Newmans for forces. In giving absolute freedom, all individuality is lost.

In giving absolute freedom, all individuality is lost. But uh, DO understand, it doesn't have to be that way for every game; Im only speaking this way because im almost positive that Sega won't look into it during this development cycle. They did it with PSU, and they did it with PSP2 when they finally had a chance to fix everything. As well as PSP2i. Their minds are elsewhere.



Edit: case in point:



RAmarl wearing her military-like outfit.
Although it was somewhat vague, Bonko mentioned how previously, the way she held guns were kinda unique, but “this time (in/at) _____ she can do different actions”.
I FIGURED we were going to see some unique things, but the alpha has shown us completely different.

I dont remember seeing anything unique about her in the alpha test videos. This statement alone had me very hype, but now that hype is very much leaving. I hope we see some of these features come to light in the future.

[Mike]

That's because these designers don't understand how to create a dodge mechanic that doesn't render the damn player invincible.
My surprise is why rangers feel the need to put themselves in to dangerous positions where they need to roll out with invincibility when they can do just as much damage from a position of relative safety.

[Dinosaur]

Dash attack = IMBA

[Cayenne]

I'm just being realistic here.

Do you really want them to spend hours upon hours working on something that is largely a cosmetic consideration when they could be spending that time on bigger-picture issues? Do you want to take the risk of the game being horribly unbalanced because they bit off more than they could chew?

Yes, sure, ideally they'd put just as much or more effort into the game than they did with the original PSO. But you have to consider that the game is already an order of magnitude more complex than the original PSO. The original did NOT have 'every race can be every class', did not have PAs, did not have jumping or dashing or blocking, did not graphics of this quality (this adds considerably to the development time all on its own), did not have massive battles with 12 players participating at once... it's a bigger game. Much, much bigger.

They arguably already have put a ton of work in as it is, even at the 50% stage. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they already eclipsed the original in sheer number of man-hours worked on it (IIRC, the crew is considerably larger now, too).
-No, I would want them to take the risk of using what already worked in PSO and improve, innovate, and fine tune the game mechanics instead of removing key features and replacing them with something a lot of us know won't work before even playing the game.

-The game is not that big.

-Every race being every class is dumb, that's what made being different classes "feel" unique and that's SEGA's problem, they don't know what "feel" is.

-PA is a PSU thing, they should do something else besides dragging and dropping features from another game and at least make new features that were "inspired" from others.

-Jumping was long overdue and still needs some "obvious" tweaking, I have no real opining on dashing but (to me) it's not really good nor bad, and there was some form of blocking in PSO.

-It's been 10 years since PSO, of course it's gonna look better, what did you expect and still the areas still look like they were made in 2005.

-Massive battles and 12 players (yes bigger than previous game) is something that could of EASILY been done years ago, they just finally decided to pull the trigger.

-You make it sound like they added other features PSO didn't have so it's bigger and better. It's not hard to code extra enemies and players into a game (change #x to #y), make good looking graphics (expectations are higher now than they were years ago and done faster as well), add in BASIC features like walking, running, dashing, blocking, jumping, some things done since Super Mario Bros., and motion capture (they sometimes do EVERY movement in one day with a big team).

RemiusTA knows what I mean, I'm sure he's played his/her (don't know, sry) fare share of games and know there are basics to making a game unique and limitation is one of them.

Beside, I LOVED that cast were super strong but unable to cast magic, it made a lot of sense and gave every class some kind of uniqueness, made it different even if it was major or minor and I never once heard of someone complaining about that in PSO EVER unlike now with PSO2...

[Cayenne]

Ricardo has translated them on his site. A link can be found in the first post of this thread.
When I looked it wasn't there, he must of updated it.

That's meseta.


ドロップしたメセタの累計額 The Total Amount of Meseta that dropped.

Thank you.

[Dinosaur]

PAs are tight. Why wouldn't you want them?

Also, jumping and dashing is so integral to the gameplay right now. From what it looks like, normal attacks are jump and dash cancel-able. In order to have the most efficiency in your DPS and evasion, you must jump-cancel and dash-cancel in and out of your attack strings.

The monsters right now look really easy to clown on and run circles around, but I'm sure at later levels your dodging skills will be put to the test.

With that said, the gameplay looks really fun. I feel that it's going to come down to enemy design and how challenging the game will be.

[Cayenne]

PAs are tight. Why wouldn't you want them?

Never said I didn't want them, I said I can do without meaning if they were gone/replaced, I wouldn't fret. I also said they could do something similar that acts like a PA but they decided to just rip it from PSU and put it in PSO2, it shows no innovation and creativity, to me it just looks lazy.

[Zyrusticae]

I'm sensing some serious disconnect between fantasy and reality here.

Fantasy: "Games aren't that much more expensive to produce! Every game looks better nowadays, it's standard!"

Reality: Art has increased exponentially in number of man-hours required to produce. Where before, they merely modelled things in low-poly from the get-go (no high-res assets needed because they would never be used) and painted details directly on the texture map, NOW they have to build high-poly models for everything, use that model and create a low-poly version, bake the normal map for it, work on specularity and diffuse maps, and finally bring it all together and tweak as needed.

Fantasy: "[...]Motion capture (they sometimes do EVERY movement in one day with a big team)."

Reality: Er, no. I mean... really? Have you ever seen the kind of information that motion capture software produces? You can't just throw that raw data in there willy-nilly, it first has to be tweaked BY HAND by actual animators. And even then, motion capture is completely useless for motions that are impossible for human beings to reproduce (a major consideration for certain move sets, especially).

And, really, there is a reason game budgets have ballooned exponentially since the days of yore where a $1m budget was considered big-time stuff. Think about it for a second - Gears of War, CoD:MW, Crysis 2, and so on - all these big-budget games cost dozens of millions to produce, and yet they don't have any more gameplay hours than the games of yesteryear (in some cases even less, in the case of the CoD games). To pretend those pretty visuals don't cost bunches and bunches of cash to produce is naivete at best.

I find it... well, quite amusing, really, that you state playing games in any way suggests you know how making them is like. That's complete nonsense. Watching cartoon shows does not, in any way, suggest you know how that cartoon is made, how much it cost to be made, or even that you can draw a single frame from that cartoon with anything resembling skill. It can certainly give you some room for criticism, but whether or not that criticism is of any use or not, well...

[Dabian]

So why are developers still failing to ace every game they make despite the supposed ease of making a game?

And you VASTLY (see I can do caps too) underestimate the processes involved in motion capture.

[yoshiblue]

I'd personally perfer specialists over freelances/freedoms in this games. Like thoses before me, its what make pso pso. Otherwise there better be some gender differences.

[kyuuketsuki]

I think the easiest (but still cool) solution would be to bring back character levels in addition to class levels, just have a limited number of them... say 10 or 20. Through character levels you could put points into a racial skill-tree that benefits your character regardless of their class. Just throwing it out there.

And I just have to say that I'm increasingly leaning towards making a HUnewm, so I very much hope that there's some way to compensate a race using its "off-class" (newman HUs and CAST FOs, pretty much).

[yoshiblue]

Humans:
Rally! Boost in stuffs for a limited time!

Newmens:
Inner focus: boost in element and technique power! For a varied amount of time.

Cast:
Overclock: Increase output in speed and strength! Time of expiration is imminent.

I guess cast forces can summon traps like the emperor in dissidia. Maybe increased attack speed for newmens with swords.

[Cayenne]

"Games aren't that much more expensive to produce! Every game looks better nowadays, it's standard!"

I never mentioned anything about it being cheap to make. When did i say this?

Obviously it's hard to make a game today considering the many man hours involved and the other stuff you said and it will never be easy to make a game of this quality but they still need to output a good product regardless of how long it takes. They know what it take to make a high quality game and anything less will result in criticism. Also, it's not art, it's business.


"[...]Motion capture (they sometimes do EVERY movement in one day with a big team)."
Yeah I over exaggerated this mainly because they got lazy in not making separate animations for each class which they should still do.

Point to Zyrusticae



I find it... well, quite amusing, really, that you state playing games in any way suggests you know how making them is like.
I never stated playing games makes you know how to make a game. I would go further into this but not with you, you're making it impossible to even have a regular talk.

If you're wanna question what I said, make sure I actually said it first.


So why are developers still failing to ace every game they make despite the supposed ease of making a game?

I never said developers today aren't making good game, they are making a ton of good game, where are you getting this sh*t from?

[RemiusTA]

I'm sensing some serious disconnect between fantasy and reality here.


Reality: Art has increased exponentially in number of man-hours required to produce. Where before, they merely modelled things in low-poly from the get-go (no high-res assets needed because they would never be used) and painted details directly on the texture map, NOW they have to build high-poly models for everything, use that model and create a low-poly version, bake the normal map for it, work on specularity and diffuse maps, and finally bring it all together and tweak as needed. As the task has gotten harder, the tools to complete them with have also, obviously, gotten much better. We're using things that we couldn't have used in the past to model and texture with. You make it sound like the old days of low poly models and terrible resolution textures with no special lighting effects was somehow easy and not expensive to do. It was still difficult, and if you scale the work it probably isn't much different. Artists simply have more ways to polish their work, with all the extra triangles and engine effects to tweak stuff with.

Of course, the tools they use for High-res shit are quite expensive, and they probably require alot more people than before to fill the workload, as games are far more massive in scale. But look at any of the older, more popular titles -- they've always cost tons of money to create.



Reality: Er, no. I mean... really? Have you ever seen the kind of information that motion capture software produces? You can't just throw that raw data in there willy-nilly, it first has to be tweaked BY HAND by actual animators. And even then, motion capture is completely useless for motions that are impossible for human beings to reproduce (a major consideration for certain move sets, especially).
I've never worked with a Mocap machine, but im pretty positive you're over glorifying the work load here, bro. You can usually see people translate the information directly to the skeleton of the model they're working with. That's why Mocap is used in the first place -- it's EASIER, it's FASTER, and you get more lifelike motions than if you did it by hand. Tweaking them by hand is time consuming, but by no means impossible -- youtube that Dead Fantasy guy. He does all the animation himself. And there is alot of animation in those movies.

And uh, you can Mo-cap something, and then tweak it into an impossible motion. I dont know what you were getting at there. This is a no-brainer for animators of videogames. Hell, even 2D animators use this technique. Have you never played Tekken 6? Soul Calibur?



And, really, there is a reason game budgets have ballooned exponentially since the days of yore where a $1m budget was considered big-time stuff. Think about it for a second - Gears of War, CoD:MW, Crysis 2, and so on - all these big-budget games cost dozens of millions to produce, and yet they don't have any more gameplay hours than the games of yesteryear (in some cases even less, in the case of the CoD games). To pretend those pretty visuals don't cost bunches and bunches of cash to produce is naivete at best. Well, videogames in general have gotten much bigger and more popular. In terms of development costs, well yes, you can put a helluva lot more in them, so the top-dollar companies spare no expenses at that level. And High-Resolution pretty graphics aren't cheap to produce.

Also, don't forget to keep inflation in mind, and don't forget to note the absolutely ridiculous money these companies will shell out for Advertising, which can easily top dozens of millions of dollars.




I find it... well, quite amusing, really, that you state playing games in any way suggests you know how making them is like. That's complete nonsense. Watching cartoon shows does not, in any way, suggest you know how that cartoon is made, how much it cost to be made, or even that you can draw a single frame from that cartoon with anything resembling skill. It can certainly give you some room for criticism, but whether or not that criticism is of any use or not, well...This, right here? This is why i laughed when you got on me about arguing over the internet, rofl. You just flat-out insulted this man. I would have felt inclined to throw a jab at you in every sentence of my post.

[Macman]

What the hell is going to be the point of a Cast Force in PSO2? What, is he going to be able to Hover and Cast at the same time or something? That's hardly enough to warrant the fact that he's going to have technique damage lower than Humans and especially Newmans. He can take more hits? Who gives a shit; the whole point of playing force is to not get hit anyway. Without any kind of special traits, it's just going to be the new Newman Female Fighmaster of PSO2.Two words: Skill tree.

[Zorafim]

Huh. Not even I am inspired to join in the argument, and arguing is just about all I do in these forums.
I'll just set up a cheerleading squad in the corner...

[Dinosaur]

What the hell is going to be the point of a Cast Force in PSO2?

More damage on attacks, duh. Considering you gain PP back when you land attacks, FOcasts will probably be more fight+spell-combo oriented rather than sitting in the back charging spells.

[RemiusTA]

I swear, it seems that just about every topic Zyrusticae and Remius post it, they end up going at it. Usually giant towers of text regarding SNCA*. I imagine it like this:

http://forums.saiyanisland.com/images/smilies/swordfight.gif

*Shit Nobody Cares About


-- wait what? I wasn't even arguing. I was simply correcting him. It just took a while.

We wernt even talking to eachother. Like he felt the need to correct the guy who "wasn't in touch with reality", i had to elaborate to anyone reading that Motion Capture isn't some kind of rocket science. At least, not anymore complicated for animators to use than for writers to use word processing software.


Two words: Skill tree.This is assuming Skill Trees will differ amongst races of the same class, in which case I don't have as big a problem with the idea.


The point is, it probably wont. In fact, im sure we would have heard about it by now if it did. If it does not, than this game will be no different than PSU and it's type casting. Along with Casts probably ruling the world yet again, every force being a Newman, every cast being a hunter, every human being a ranger, and the mix-matchers stuck with mediocrity.

Thats what i was getting at. Therefore, if Cast Forces dont have anything to set them apart from Newman Forces but their stats, then i really would personally never feel the need to EVER make one. Same with a Newman Hunter.

For instance -- in the past, Hunewearls were weaker than the other hunters, but had very nice technique potential. (take that as you will.) In THIS game, either nobody or everybody will be able to cast techniques....so what is the DIFFERENCE in a Newman, Human, or Cast hunter character? If the answer is "stats", then that automatically rules newmans out as a very good choice for one.

[Arkios]

The point is, it probably wont. In fact, im sure we would have heard about it by now if it did. If it does not, than this game will be no different than PSU and it's type casting. Along with Casts probably ruling the world yet again, every force being a Newman, every cast being a hunter, every human being a ranger, and the mix-matchers stuck with mediocrity.

Thats what i was getting at. Therefore, if Cast Forces dont have anything to set them apart from Newman Forces but their stats, then i really would personally never feel the need to EVER make one. Same with a Newman Hunter.

For instance -- in the past, Hunewearls were weaker than the other hunters, but had very nice technique potential. (take that as you will.) In THIS game, either nobody or everybody will be able to cast techniques....so what is the DIFFERENCE in a Newman, Human, or Cast hunter character?

I 100% agree and know exactly what you mean regarding the HUnewearls/RAmarl comment.

There needs to be SOMETHING that seperates the classes, beyond the looks. If they feel exactly the same, then I have no reason whatsoever to ever create another character.

I remember specifically making a HUcaseal back on PSO, simply because I liked the Dagger animation that she had (along with the other female attack animations). It would be a shame if they do not continue this with PSO2.

[Cayenne]

PSO is way outdated and everything PSO2 is so far is way better and it is and you all have that right to say it but you can't forget it's the little tiny details that made PSO a different experience from every other game out there when it came out. SEGA is missing these tiny details and some of us happen to notice it.

Removing some of these tiny details won't ruin the game experience but it's something some of us want back, that's all.

[RemiusTA]

Some people seem to misuse the term "outdated" when referring to PSO's mechanics.

There isn't too much about PSO that was outdated aside from its engine and a few things the game revolved around, which is completely understandable. But calling its gameplay outdated seems wrong to me. The game as a whole IS indeed outdated, that is obvious. But in the scope of these conversations, ignoring a feature from PSO just because the game is old is....well, not very wise in the slightest. Especially when, if you would take alot of the mechanics in PSO and apply them to PSU/PSP2i, they would undoubtedly be better / more fun games as a whole.


That's like calling Turn-Based RPG battle systems "outdated". How can they be outdated when they basically define the style of the game? "overused" or "saturated" would probably be better, or it would be better to just say "they dont make them right anymore", because they have most certainly changed.



PSO isn't outdated, it's just an old game. Of course nobody wants to play a game IDENTICAL to it, but you DO NOT have to remove jumping, custom combos or blocking just to emulate PSO's playstyle. There was alot more to that game than a 3-hit combo, whether you liked it or not. (Or whether you decide to downplay the entire game based on some exploits in the higher levels. Whatever.)

[•Col•]

Skill trees probably won't differ between the races... But I wouldn't be TOTALLY surprised if each race had their own unique subclasses...

[Cayenne]

Skill trees probably won't differ between the races... But I wouldn't be TOTALLY surprised if each race had their own unique subclasses...

^Even that, I would overlook some of the things missing if that was implemented into the game.

This game just says badass in every angel of it but how long will the flame burn?

[RemiusTA]

Thank you for quoting something I actually said for once.That actually made me lol.


Skill trees probably won't differ between the races... But I wouldn't be TOTALLY surprised if each race had their own unique subclasses...


I never thought of that, but it would be a very good idea. But it really wouldn't be better than each class having their own unique main skill tree.



Unless, you're able to sub the same class you main. That could change alot.



But it's too good of a workaround for stale, universal animations (and no real racial balances side from stats) for it to ever be considered. I just don't see them caring very much. I guess we'll see when 50% becomes closer to 80 or 90.

[Mitz]

What the hell is going to be the point of a Cast Force in PSO2? What, is he going to be able to Hover and Cast at the same time or something? That's hardly enough to warrant the fact that he's going to have technique damage lower than Humans and especially Newmans. He can take more hits? Who gives a shit; the whole point of playing force is to not get hit anyway. Without any kind of special traits, it's just going to be the new Newman Female Fighmaster of PSO2.

You're saying that this wasn't the case in PSO? What was so great about rolling a RAcaseal or HUcaseal? Extra DFP and EVP, stats that were mediocre at best, especially in the case of RAcaseal who generally shouldn't even get hit. All it did was get you killed in Ultimate at a lot earlier level through the reduced knockback system. And there people were, rolling RAcaseals anyway. I don't see what the big deal is, it's not like the online Phantasy Star titles had any type of endgame to speak of anyway and AFAIK nothing has been announced for PSO2 either. It's not about getting gear, mindmaxing to do optimal damage because there's nowhere where you would possibly be minmaxed for. PVP? It'll end up being as bad as PSO, Sega has no experience with PVP. Raids?Nothing of the sorts, and missions were and always will be easy, and if you don't need to coordinate then you certainly won't need maxed out stats.

There's no reason completely avoid a character because some areas were lacking slightly. Be glad that the option is there. If FOnewearl is the best and you want to be the best, go FOne. If you prefer being non-mainstream and roll FOne which only 4% of the community will use, go be that.

[RemiusTA]

You're saying that this wasn't the case in PSO? What was so great about rolling a RAcaseal or HUcaseal? Extra DFP and EVP, stats that were mediocre at best, especially in the case of RAcaseal who generally shouldn't even get hit. All it did was get you killed in Ultimate at a lot earlier level through the reduced knockback system. And there people were, rolling RAcaseals anyway. I don't see what the big deal is, it's not like the online Phantasy Star titles had any type of endgame to speak of anyway and AFAIK nothing has been announced for PSO2 either. It's not about getting gear, mindmaxing to do optimal damage because there's nowhere where you would possibly be minmaxed for. PVP? It'll end up being as bad as PSO, Sega has no experience with PVP. Raids?Nothing of the sorts, and missions were and always will be easy, and if you don't need to coordinate then you certainly won't need maxed out stats.

There's no reason completely avoid a character because some areas were lacking slightly. Be glad that the option is there. If FOnewearl is the best and you want to be the best, go FOne. If you prefer being non-mainstream and roll FOne which only 4% of the community will use, go be that.

Can't comment. Never used any ranger aside from Ramarl, and i never got a cast character past the 90s. I hated casts. Not being able to use Techniques made me feel like i was missing out. Hucaseal had the best dagger animation though. The point has little to do with optimal damage and more to do with a universally fun playing experience. These are things that would undoubtedly make the PSO2 experience a unique and decent one.

And i dont really know what else you're talking about in there...something about PVP maxing and raids? Uh...yeah sure i guess.


And just because some of the same situations happened in PSO does absolutely NOTHING to detract from the fact that PSO handled the situation far better than PSU and PSP2i did, seeing as they didn't do ANYTHING to blunt the problem at hand here. You'd rather another Racaseal/Hucaseal, or would you rather the entire cast have the same issue? Ignoring the problem doesn't make it not a problem. Well, unless you blunt THAT problem with something else.


But quite frankly, i don't see how an Action MMORPG could have a cast of cloned classes and it be an okay thing. Especially when this "AMAZINGLY OUTDATED SUPER OLD AND SUCKY" game from the 2000's did a better job at diversifying its characters than one with eleven years of 'innovation' under its belt.


Nobody else finds that annoying? Or maybe the character creator somehow makes it okay to you guys? Well damn, I guess so. Maybe i should just stop talking about it.

[Spellbinder]

If I may interject, is anyone actually sure that there will be nothing to set the race / class combinations apart? I feel like we should wait at least until beta before jumping to conclusions that we'll just be playing a bunch of clone characters with only racial skins to give a false sense of individuality. We also don't know what character stat growth will be like and what ramifications it will have as characters develop.

Or, I could just totally be missing the point of the complaint, and apologize if if I am.

Edit:

Can someone link me to a source where these subclasses are confirmed? I'm not denying their existence, but I've not seen "any" information on them other than people saying that they will be in the game.

[Blueblur]

According to a Google translation of this tweet (https://twitter.com/#!/sega_pso2/status/116825366294831104), we'll be getting a direct-feed version of the trailer shown at TGS next week. I think. :P


Tsu Pusobanha over! Star went on to show high quality movies released in stages TGS2011! In response to the voice says, sucking now preparing to allow the movie to the public early next week! ! Tsu Ssu in high quality fleet and Oracle also dive stylish city is also a rumor! #PSO2

[Spellbinder]

ぷそばんはーっ！TGS2011のステージで公開したムービーを高画質で見せて欲しいっ！と言う声にお応え して、来週頭にムービーの公開ができるように準備を進めていますっ！！噂のスタイリッシュ飛び込みやオラク ル船団も市街地も高画質でっすっ！！

Good evening all ! In response to all the requests to see the movie from the TGS2011 presentation in high definition, we're preparing to have it ready around next week.
The stylish dive everyone's been talking about, the oracle space fleet, the town area, all in high def!!


Edit: Looked again and it made sense, hehe.

[Mike]

The last line is "That stylish jump, the Oracle fleet and city will also be in high definition!"

[Spellbinder]

Ya :p I knew it was the stylish jump but 噂 threw me off a bit, I normally don't see it used that way~

[Mike]

ALC lists it as "much-talked-about" but meh. Nuance and all.

[Hrith]

http://tangorin.com/general/噂

[Spellbinder]

I think we're good on the meaning and usage of 噂. ^^;

[Noxia]

whatever o.o , i'll make Noxia again, my favorite female Cast >:3

[Macman]

Did anyone ever translate the rest of those charts and graphs?

[Zorafim]

I think it translates to something like this:

POUNY | POUNY | POUNY
POUNY | POUNY | POUNY
POUNY | POUNY | POUNY
POUNY | POUNY | POUNY
POUNY | POUNY | POUNY

Not translated to english, of course. I simply translated to the superior bunny language for ease of translation for everyone else. Everyone speaks bunny, right?