The melee vs caster conundrum

[ShinMaruku]

We have seen how melee dominated in PSU due to techs being retardedly balanced,now PSP2i fixed that somewhat with some great control giving techs and chaining working properly. But I still feel that forces will get shafted in PSO2 due to the lack of tech info and the lack of data pertaining to forces on the focus tests (They can call it alpha,beta whatever, over used terms)

That said,what ideas you have to avoid the PSU issue?
Throw out some ideas I am sure Sega is reading this, so some good ideas should go out.

I think the chaining system put in PSPi2 was well used, but I also think the pp pools should be much higher,allowing for some really nice casting set ups.

Also have some weapons scale from your int rather than other skills due to class useage. (Like bows were in PSP2 but that should be spread to some more weapons.)

[Zorafim]

This is an american fight site. I'm not even sure Sega knows this exists. Still, I'm a fan of sharing ideas, so let's see where this goes.

[sugarFO]

I just hope it won't be like PSU in that you have to spam your techs to level them up. I saw technic disks were dropped so maybe it's more like PSO where you can buy the levels separately? Or perhaps they just scale with your character's job level? Please nothing tedious ... lol

[ShinMaruku]

Sonic Team had people looking at Sonic Cult they are looking at this site some of the ideas are being looked at.
Rest assure they all have a few western guys at those companies who are savvy enough to mine the largest fansites.

[FOkyasuta]

No bewb references? Oookay then.

So what i think is that they might not bring back the chain feature but i think they'll bring back the Int stuff. Cause a whole group of FO's with the Chain Feature and good techs might make the class reeeaaaal broken. But how there gonna pull of this balancing act is beyond my guess.

[Valkyrie Lovrina]

Meh, I prefer Melee Forces(FOnewearl & FOcaseal :wacko:) . I'm more curious how the Wind buff technique will play out
and if ridiculously long Pigtails will finally be a selectable hairstyle.

[yoshiblue]

With all the random gibberish, I wonder if digging up ideas in old posts became a lost cause?

[ShinMaruku]

Well ya sort through the foolishness.

[AfroGuy!]

why cant it be both? like you can find higher lvl tech disks but you can also lvl it up by using it agains enemies or with support techs, using it on other people

[RemiusTA]

Im sure the issue with the magic in PS games is that 1) not nearly enough time is put into managing them, and 2) they're probably too afraid of making them OP.

I believe point 1 is the biggest problem, here.


for instance -- In PSO, every class used the Customization Pallete in the same way -- if you were able to use an ability, you were able to equip it to your customization pallete however you wanted and use it. In PSU however, this idea was completely trashed in favor of a PA linking system. This wasn't a problem for melee characters, because it worked...but instead of creating a unique system for the forces, they simply forced them to equip 4 spells to one weapon at a time. The issue came up when there were TOO MANY conflicting systems that hindered the forces from becoming a good class until too far into the game's lifespan. Just attack also was ignored by the force class entirely for no reason.

In comes PSP2. New systems are introduced -- Chaining, Blocking and Dodge Rolling. As for CHAINING, generally the Triangle button became the "end the chain" attack. This ended up being PAs for the Melee characters. Since Rangers had no such ability, they were FINALLY upgraded to have Charge Shot abilities (completely broken). FORCES? Well, shafted yet again. Although Rods are 2-handed weapons, but the guard button had no spot. Instead of programming a different button combo, they just didn't allow them to do it. Rolling killed your PP, and even as a force you COULDNT get more of it. But you know, none of this would have been an issue if not for ONE thing -- the chaining system. If forces were made to ignore this rule, or at least have the rule lessened, they would have been fine how they were. Didn't work out that way. They were forced to follow a system NOT tailored to them, and it ruined them.





With PSO2?

1) Becoming reliant on weapons. If Forces once again become slaved to their Rods while fighting, they probably wont do so good again. But i should mention it wouldn't be NEARLY as bad as PSU's system since you can subpallete techniques now.

2) Techniques not growing correctly.

This was such an issue in PSU it was ridiculous. In PSO, it was generally accepted that your technics WERE your weapons. As such, every few levels (as in, always less than 4) they changed form. And when i say Change FORM, i mean they literally got bigger, faster, stronger, the trajectory maybe even changed, the range changed, everything about them changed.


3) Forces just not being able to stand up to Rangers and Hunters

Hunters are going to be exploiting movement states left and right like a bad Fighting Game. (while the happy campers call it "SKILLFUL MANEUVERING") Rangers are going to be running circles around dipshit AIs with their no-drawback rifles and never getting touched, ever, in life. BOTH of the classes can apparently FLY indefinitely by simply jumping and shooting/swinging their weapons around.

Forces, on the other hand, actually GET SLOWER while they're attacking. They aren't long range anymore -- they're mid range fighters. (they always were in PSO, until endgame when you could outrange most guns with your techniques). They're automatically the most vulnerable.

If they dont output serious damage this time, they're just going to be the strong-but-still-not-nearly-as-efficient-as-everyone-else-becuase-they-actually-have-to-think-to-live class. Which i can DEFINITELY see happening.

[Geistritter]

I'm a lot more worried about them going out of their way to make monsters' range counter Rangers' ridiculous degree of safety while attacking. I really don't need a return of that rapid fire Foie/Barta bullshit.

[Mike]

I'm a lot more worried about them going out of their way to make monsters' range counter Rangers' ridiculous degree of safety while attacking. I really don't need a return of that rapid fire Foie/Barta bullshit.
A ranger's safety is counter by low damage. Both forces and hunters out damage rangers.


I just hope it won't be like PSU in that you have to spam your techs to level them up. I saw technic disks were dropped so maybe it's more like PSO where you can buy the levels separately? Or perhaps they just scale with your character's job level? Please nothing tedious ... lol
Different level PA/tech disks drop but I don't recall them being available in the store during the alpha. That may change though.

[Cayenne]

Hey Shin, there's a thread about this already (Combat Mechanics/RPG Elements), why didn't you post in there?

Also, don't fret, they have this thing down. They've already mentioned future tweaks to forces (plus skill tree dude), I'd suggest you get this out of your head (like I did) and have some faith. For once SEGA is gathering input from the source of money, the players and game companies usually avoid that process for legal reasons so be happy for the changes coming up is because of us (the alpha testers).

I can already see great gameplay changes in the future and SEGA won't let this one flop, they're smart enough to know that.

LMAO at Ramius's predictable long post, TL;DR btw...

[Macman]

so be happy for the changes coming up is because of the Japanese (the alpha testers).
Cleared that up for you. They don't care about us.

[Cayenne]

I'm sure there were some americans on there and don't be so emo, they don't care about us yet.

[Fenn777]

In general, I think Rangers should be the best solo class, Hunters should fall in the middle of solo and team play, and Forces should shine best in a group.

I think casters should be designed to be a utility class, capable of doing well in any situation but not the best at any one thing. In solo play, this means they will have the tools to deal with just about any danger, but will require a slightly higher skill level to pull it off. In parties, this means they can fill whatever role the team needs, be it buffs and healing, ranged support, or heavy damage.

Conversly, it seems Rangers will be more adept at taking on single enemies and bosses, as well as supporting fire, while Hunters will excel at fighting groups of enemies. Both will have strengths, and both will also have weaknesses which can be covered by a Force teammate.

[Angelo]

Meh, I prefer Melee Forces(FOnewearl & FOcaseal :wacko:) . I'm more curious how the Wind buff technique will play out
and if ridiculously long Pigtails will finally be a selectable hairstyle.

Wind buff? Where was that shown?

[Valkyrie Lovrina]

Wind buff? Where was that shown?it wasn't shown. I was just saying how curious I was to see it.
if it'll exist.

[ShinMaruku]

Cleared that up for you. They don't care about us.

Sega was founded by Yanks you know that right, and the lions share of their profits come from the west, do you also know that.
If it seemed like they were japan loving in PSU it was more incompetence than anything else.
Japan the land of the obsessive never called them on their shit.

[RemiusTA]

LMAO at Ramius's predictable long post, TL;DR btw...

Ramius really needs to quit with those "predictable long posts". Remius on the other hand is a pretty awesome guy.

[BIG OLAF]

Sega was founded by Yanks you know that right, and the lions share of their profits come from the west, do you also know that.
If it seemed like they were japan loving in PSU it was more incompetence than anything else.
Japan the land of the obsessive never called them on their shit.

I think most people know that SEGA was founded in America (at least, I'd hope most people knew that..). As for the "lion's share" of revenue coming from Western countries, I can't really see that, considering SEGA of America gets used and abused like SEGA of Japan's bitch-boy.

All that being said, I agree with Macman. It feels as though any non-Japanese consumer is an afterthought to today's SEGA. Hopefully they can prove me wrong, but judging based on how PSU was handled on the Western servers versus the Japanese servers, I doubt that they will. But, one never knows.

[Zorafim]

Ramius really needs to quit with those "predictable long posts". Remius on the other hand is a pretty awesome guy.

he does long post and doesn't afraid of anything?

[ShinMaruku]

I think most people know that SEGA was founded in America (at least, I'd hope most people knew that..). As for the "lion's share" of revenue coming from Western countries, I can't really see that, considering SEGA of America gets used and abused like SEGA of Japan's bitch-boy.

All that being said, I agree with Macman. It feels as though any non-Japanese consumer is an afterthought to today's SEGA. Hopefully they can prove me wrong, but judging based on how PSU was handled on the Western servers versus the Japanese servers, I doubt that they will. But, one never knows.
Japanese players got rooked too. Hell even more with that sub system. It's incompetence.

[RemiusTA]

he does long post and doesn't afraid of anything?

Damn skippy baby.

[NoiseHERO]

Damn skippy baby.

It's true though Ramius, nobody here wants to learn about new things unrelated to PSO2. Especially not if it contradicts their ignorance in the form of hostility. So you should just terrorize people for being easy to troll instead, it's more fun.

[RemiusTA]

I was thisss close to trolling him, but i just let it go with that more passive post.

But it's already starting to build up, because now im going to be tempted to trollbait every post he makes from now on X_x

[Zorafim]

We should have an overly enlonged post war, just for giggles.

[Macman]

Going a little off-topic, but anyone still caring about Sega's current overseas policies should give this a read: http://www.giantbomb.com/profile/blazehedgehog/sega-japan-vs-sega-america-continues-to-be-fascinating/30-84107/

[RemiusTA]

We should have an overly enlonged post war, just for giggles.

Meh we havent had one in a while. I can be the spark. Who's gonna be the gasoline?

[Cayenne]

Ramius really needs to quit with those "predictable long posts". Remius on the other hand is a pretty awesome guy.

I didn't mean to make you stop posting, just an observation.

Keep going bud.

[Zorafim]

Eh, I'm stuck at school all day tomorrow. I'll think of something then.

[NoiseHERO]

Meh we havent had one in a while. I can be the spark. Who's gonna be the gasoline?

*Throws in grenade then slams the door shut*

You guys obviously know nothing about action RPGs let alone if you believe the force is ever going to be of any use outside of healing and buffing for the ranger and hunter superior race.

I PERSONALLY find that it'd be a waste of time to buff such a clearly last minute made class. As proof of it being the last class revealed and it's already heavily reliant on melee with it's ugly ass rod fighting.

[Zorafim]

Good spark! I'll see what I can come up with tomorrow.

[RemiusTA]

Forces fuckin suck

Mostly because PSO is obviously a Console game. Who the fuck wants to play on their shitty PC all day.

[Cayenne]

Easy Remius

[RemiusTA]

These are the PSO2 forums; it doesn't have to be subtle or inconspicuous.

[NoiseHERO]

No remius is right, they should just take the class out altogether so this can finally be a real phantasy star.

Then work on getting this game on XBOX.

[Cayenne]

Yeah, I'm not touching this thread again...

[NoiseHERO]

/going through these threads while listening to reggae = endless lawls

[Geistritter]

...It's sad how obvious you guys made it you were just being "offensive" for the hell of it, and he took the bait anyway.

I guess someone has to. Maybe that guy should be regarded as a hero; he did what the rest of the world couldn't, took the fall to show us the potential folly of man.

Or maybe he just needs to freaking relax.

[RemiusTA]

immm drinkin rummmm

and red bullllll

[ShinMaruku]

You guys are this antzy for this game? This does not bode well.

[Macman]

Indeed, we have at least another year until we get a version we can read.

[lostinseganet]

Forces by nature an low hp and high tp. A force that wants to be melee should use or sacrifice hp or tp to fight. So I propose. A force should have light and medium melee attacks, but would need to charge up to use a hard melee attack.

The charging could consist of using tp or hp from your self or an enemy and channeling that power though something. That something could be yourself or your weapon of choice. To use such a system would be dangerous, but such should be the life of a melee force.

Evasion would be a critical stat. Constitution "The ability to keep standing, and not allow extra hits while you get up" would be important too. Blocking/defense stat could be interesting.

To even out a blocking ability perhaps weapons and armor could be broken, but only if you chance it by using the blocking ability too much like against a boss, and its minions. A counter could break a weapon, and blocking could break armor. Fixing it would require a blacksmith of some kind.

It would be pretty cool of we could have magical counters, and blocks. Many enemies in previous phantasy star game had attacks that would just automatically hit everyone for damage. A magic counter could allow you to dodge or set up a counter attack. To even out such counter a force would have to sacrifice some hp to prevent losing even more hp. Risking a quick death in various boss encounters.

For melee fights there should be a standing low med high"Charged" attack, a crouching low med high"Charged" attack, a jumping low med high"Charged" attack. Counters/blocking/Magic block or counter could have a low med high chance for success based on a low med high sacrifice for a low med high chance for success. "I admit that one maybe a little hard to wrap your head around (^_^)"

If you hit or get hit in the head you should have a higher chance of falling down, and losing accuracy. If you get hit in the body your armor and weapon could be broken. If you get hit in the legs you should slow and lose evasion. Getting hit in the back deals double damage. The effects of Techniques should increase the closer you are to your target.

I think with what we have seen so far of the game these ideas do not seem too farfetched. Being a melee force would hold great risk due to frail bodies of a force. It would be up to the player to keep his or her head on straight in the heat of battle.

I have a question for you guys. How many buttons should a mouse for pso 2 have? I'm thinking six.
Should players be able to lock on to targets? I'm thinking no.

[Fenn777]

^ Not sure about some of that, but the idea of magic counters is interesting.


To solve this "conundrum" (great word!), I pose this balancing act:

Hunter: the "lawnmower" class. High ATP, DEF, and HP, great at hitting multiple targets, and killing large groups of weak/dumb enemies. Protects Rangers and Force.
- Hucast/caseal: +Def and HP. Good for protecting teammates.
- Humar/marl: +Atp and Spd (however speed and evasion work). Good for clearing enemies.
- Hunewm/neweral: +Mst and PP. Capable of support/healing.

Ranger: the "slayer" class. Significant ATP, good range, fair HP, great at focusing on high-threat targets, and killing bosses from a safe distance. Watches the backs of hunters and Force.
- Racast/caseal: +Def and HP. Good for engaging high-threat targets.
- Ramar/marl: +Atp and Spd. Good at watching teammates backs.
- Ranewm/neweral: +Mst and PP. Great support class.

Force: the "utility" class. High MST and PP. Variety of techs for killing groups of enemies or targeting single threats, but more vulnerable than hunters and rangers. Excels at support and healing.
- Focast/caseal: +Def and Atp. Utility character, plays a Hucast/Racast hybrid role.
- Fomar/marl: +Mst and Spd. Utility character, plays a Humar/Ramar hybrid role.
- Fonewm/neweral: +Mst and PP. Utility character, best at support role.

As an example to illustrate the roles, let's put these roles to work in a sample scenario from PSO. You have a team of one Humar, one Racaseal, one Ranewm, and one Focast (I'm highlighting the more unique classes). In Ruins 1 Normal (lets work more with the early game), you come across a room with 8 Claw, a Chaos Sorcerer, and 6 Deminians (maybe not a real room but it's hypothetical).

Your Humar is best at clearing enemies, so he attacks the claw. Your Racaseal's relatively high HP and long range means she's best for attacking the Chaos Sorcerer. She chooses to engage the Sorcerer, leaving the Deminians. Niether your Focast or Ranewm excel at fighting groups. Instead, your Focast swaps to a melee weapon and decides to hold them off, while your Ranewm covers the rest of the team's back and heals/buffs.

Please change and critique as scrupulously as possible.

[Zorafim]

I've always considered forces (spell casters in general) to be a burst class. That is, over a long period of time, they're not very effective. But they can put out significant damage over a small period of time, making them useful enough to burn up a party slot.

Take ye olde school mages in turn based RPGs. You can't use them every fight, because they'd run out of mana quickly. And for those games that you can, you need to do some maintanance to do so. But they're great in boss fights, since you can get them to spam their strongest spells and do massive damage quickly.

That's kinda what I want to see with forces. In the common situation, they're conserving their mana, maybe using low mana spells or melee strikes to get by until that one tough spawn, or the upcoming boss fight. Then they unload their TP bar and down the bugger quicker than anyone else. Of course, with the changes in how TP works, that's not an option. But it would have made some sense.

How about, just make it the glass cannon class. The hunters can attract a ton of attention and take a bunch of hits, while in turn doing a bunch of AoE damage. Rangers can run around not getting hit, and bursting down their target of choice. Forces have little defensive ability, but can kill enemies faster to compinsate.
I always did find it strange that forces generally did the least damage of the classes...

[Mitz]

Indeed, we have at least another year until we get a version we can read.

Really? I'm a lot more optimistic.


8 months.

[ShinMaruku]

Indeed, we have at least another year until we get a version we can read.

That is not the issue the issue is no matter how the game is you will hate it.

If they take the glass cannon approach and properly account for options that each classes have and make them each have an area where they excel at. Like certain enemies have a weakness that each class can exploit, or hell have some bosses who are susceptible to a element.

Also they must make psychic attacks scale properly, take a nice page from Blizzard if the intracaices are too much, make spells scale from the weapon's base and have the spell effect be multiplicative.

[Fenn777]

If they take the glass cannon approach and properly account for options that each classes have and make them each have an area where they excel at. Like certain enemies have a weakness that each class can exploit, or hell have some bosses who are susceptible to a element.

Yes. That's kinda what I was inferring. Hunters are good in some situations, Rangers in others, and both are fairly durable (Hunters due to Def and Rangers due to range of weapons). Force are capable of handling any situation attack-wise, but are more vulnerable.

As far as race, Casts are most durable, Humans do most damage, and Newman are best for support, but overall the race has a minor influence.

[Macman]

That is not the issue the issue is no matter how the game is you will hate it.Keep putting words in my mouth.
I'm as hyped as anyone else about this game; it looks really fun so far. I just know Sega's track record with international support for these games and you can't deny that it's not very good.

[ShinMaruku]

No words being put in any moths but this amount of hype for a game this early NEVER bodes well.

[NoiseHERO]

This game is not gonna be perfect, for my personal taste it's close... but not till I see more clothes and hairstyles, then how that dodge mechanic is panned out.

[yoshiblue]

Put a limit on the number of times used per mission hahaha!

But thats a no.

[Geistritter]

I've got nothing other than that the idea of making Humans the most damaging race is a horrible idea, especially now that struck attacks no longer have a possibility of missing. Making the most versatile race also the most damaging eliminates the use of the rest of the races.

[Angelo]

I've got nothing other than that the idea of making Humans the most damaging race is a horrible idea, especially now that struck attacks no longer have a possibility of missing. Making the most versatile race also the most damaging eliminates the use of the rest of the races.

Considering that CASTs have higher defense and there are now 'tanking' abilities, I could see the game heading more towards favoring character utility instead of whoever just deals the most damage. In that sense, it wouldn't be a horrible idea to have humans do the most damage.

I liked them better in PSP2 though to be honest. The high defense humans were awesome.

[lostinseganet]

I've got nothing other than that the idea of making Humans the most damaging race is a horrible idea, especially now that struck attacks no longer have a possibility of missing. Making the most versatile race also the most damaging eliminates the use of the rest of the races.
maybe enemies should be able too dodge, and parry too.

[RemiusTA]

yeah sure whatever

[Zaix]

They could just bring my beasts back. They fit the highest damage role quite well. (No I don't care about the nanoblasts) Hopefully they will add them later. They did say they could add races down the line.

[lostinseganet]

They could just bring my beasts back. They fit the highest damage role quite well. (No I don't care about the nanoblasts) Hopefully they will add them later. They did say they could add races down the line.I think they should merge beast, and humars. Maybe during the full moon or something.

[yoshiblue]

At first I said no but then Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness appeared in my head and I said Yes!

[ShinMaruku]

I think they should merge beast, and humars. Maybe during the full moon or something.

Beasts are humans. XD

[•Col•]

I think they should merge beast, and humars. Maybe during the full moon or something.

That was pretty random... But if anything, if they were to be merged with a race, it'd be Newmans... Similiar appearance... Similiar origins...

Blah

[chaos-shadow]

But they are so opposite - Beast is like the strong feril type, Newman is the intelligent dainty type?

[Zorafim]

It's more like, Beast is the strong feral type, Newmans are the swift feral type. The only exception with newmans happens to be the only game with beasts in them.

[NoiseHERO]

I liked PSZ's newmans, freaky alien bastards and your sexy women.

[Zorafim]

I want to debuke your claim by comparing a PS0 newman to a genesis newman, but as it turns out, I can't find a single picture of a PS0 newman.
That being said, freaky alien bastards are better than space elves.

[NoiseHERO]

I want to debuke your claim by comparing a PS0 newman to a genesis newman, but as it turns out, I can't find a single picture of a PS0 newman.
That being said, freaky alien bastards are better than space elves.

Nope they're space elves, just that they have megaman zero looking armor and women without pants.

[Zorafim]

No pants (http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/Zorafin/Neiending.jpg) is common with newmans (http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/Zorafin/ps4_160.jpg). I suppose megamaniness is better than kiminos, though.

[NoiseHERO]

No pants (http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/Zorafin/Neiending.jpg) is common with newmans (http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/Zorafin/ps4_160.jpg). I suppose megamaniness is better than kiminos, though.

Megamanliness is better than everything.

[Zorafim]

Damn straight. (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-lKiQNdfEZo/TJfhBpXvkEI/AAAAAAAAAmQ/8uTWkkq8tY4/s1600/chargeman.jpg)

[RemiusTA]

Beasts were stupid.




You guys want sum juice?

[Zorafim]

They were stupid! They made terrible forces.

Orange, if you don't mind.

[ShinMaruku]

Megaman is frigga

[lostinseganet]

Beasts were stupid.




You guys want sum juice?I mained force, but I like the fact that they could transform, and robots could summon parts to do attacks. I wanted to be able to do something similar as a force.

[RemiusTA]

thats why they sucked imo. Beast forms felt so rushed and tacked on...they were even animated terribly, and were WAY too big to run regular running speed with that stride. They just looked ridiculous.

SUV attacks were neat, but i only had Newmans and Humans, so i never really got to play with either of them. I was just able to sit and be jealous as my SHITTY ass fortetecher got to watch the Godrace Casts walk in and cataract everything to death, wondering why the fuck that wasn't MY ability for not only being the shittiest race in the game (newman), but the shittiest class also (force).

So basically, they created a game, gave 2 races the best stats to have for the best classes, then gave them special abilities to boot.

[Macman]

There's a reason Curtz acted like "CAST MASTERRACE" in ep1.

[Angelo]

I mained force, but I like the fact that they could transform, and robots could summon parts to do attacks. I wanted to be able to do something similar as a force.

In PSP2 there were Summons for Newmans and Humans.

I think they've added them to JP PSU as well.

[RemiusTA]

yeah whatever

[yoshiblue]

Summons were kinda lame.

[NoiseHERO]

I kinda liked the ice one...

freezing a whole mob shiva style felt awesome for the first time.

[ShinMaruku]

I like the Psp2 earth blast it did a lot of damage.

[Macman]

In PSP2 there were Summons for Newmans and Humans.

I think they've added them to JP PSU as well.I thought they just went "fuck it" and gave humans and newmans SUVs.

[Cast Soldier]

thats why they sucked imo. Beast forms felt so rushed and tacked on...they were even animated terribly, and were WAY too big to run regular running speed with that stride. They just looked ridiculous.

SUV attacks were neat, but i only had Newmans and Humans, so i never really got to play with either of them. I was just able to sit and be jealous as my SHITTY ass fortetecher got to watch the Godrace Casts walk in and cataract everything to death, wondering why the fuck that wasn't MY ability for not only being the shittiest race in the game (newman), but the shittiest class also (force).

So basically, they created a game, gave 2 races the best stats to have for the best classes, then gave them special abilities to boot.

This reminds me of my favorite cutscene in the PSU. When Lou first used a SUV.

Ethan: What is THAT!!!
Lou: A SUV. And NO, You can't have one.


I thought they just went "fuck it" and gave humans and newmans SUVs.

I think they tried to bring back the photon blast of PSO, but it was not done as well with a changed name.

[Kent]

I thought they just went "fuck it" and gave humans and newmans SUVs.
I think I would've much prefered them taking more of a PSIV approach to this "special ability" whatsis. You know, fleshies get techniques they can use, whereas Androids get other and very different abilities that they can equip to themselves to take into combat, not unlike how traps were in PSO, but more diverse than all being traps. Chest blasters, or bit systems, or field-placed or self-centered (like auras, maybe) temporary things (decoys, force-field projectors, damage-absorbing shields, etc.)... Things like that. Things that can be used multiple times per excursion, but only a limited selection can be set and used at a time, to give some element of choice.

The entire point, of course, being that they're different from and use entirely different resources than techniques. These abilities being exclusive to Android characters, while techniques are unique to Humans and Newmen... Beasts, on the other hand, I really think they should've capitalized on the transformation aspect, making it more of a defining feature than just some limit-break style silliness. You know, like what one might see for the main character in Breath of Fire III/IV, just maybe not really dragons, if they're going with their own unique things.

Because really, why go with an idea if you're just going to half-ass it?

[Selphea]

Actually, human and newman (even dezolian) characters in PS4 had their own special skills on top of techs =x

[RemiusTA]

I thought they just went "fuck it" and gave humans and newmans SUVs.

They did. Because they felt very half-assed anyway.

They should have just given everyone equippable special moves that looked cool. The whole PSO mag blast ripoff thing (that were nowhere close to as neat looking, they just felt like tacked-on collages of effects) could have been avoided.

[Kent]

Actually, human and newman (even dezolian) characters in PS4 had their own special skills on top of techs =x
You say that like I didn't know that. My point, of course, is that Androids, being characters without a capacity for techniques, could (and should) have some other resource of abilities they can utilize, rather than being mindless weapon-using characters of unspecialness.

It's already something they started to do after PSOv1's state of Androids being almost completely useless, and traps were genuinely useful, so why not expand on the idea and go a little farther than traps?

[NoiseHERO]

You see?

Why are CASTs so godly? when they should be designed to clean up my dog's poop, fold my clothes, and make me tea.

Not in that order.

Infact forget CASTs using techs drama.

How the hell can a robot level up? YOU'RE A MACHINE, YOU HAVE DEFAULT PARTS, AT MOST MAYBE YOU CAN... LEARN HALFASSED TECHNIQUES LIKE A SAMURAI OR SOMETHING THAT WON'T MEAN SHIT WITH YOUR TIN ARMOR PLATED JOINTS!

[•Col•]

Casts level up by gathering more data about enemies/attacks/areas...

.... Or some shit.

Hell, I dunno. It's an RPG, don't question it.

[Zorafim]

Funny thing about androids not using techs? In PSIII, they could. And did it very well. One of them was your healer through most of the game, if I'm not mistaken (never played it. Just watching a Let's Play! was painful enough). PSIV, they weren't at all limited by the fact that they didn't have techs, since again, they had skills. And their skills were FANTASTIC. Heck, skills were what let Rika (resident newman of the game) do any notable damage, since all her techs were supportive.

As for PSO2's cast techers... I don't know, I kinda like the thought of having a highly defensive, low attack techer with occasional big damage attacks. I'd prefer it if they were high defense, high attack, low speed though.

[Kent]

Isn't Phantasy Star III considered non-canon, anyway? But that's not the point.

The original idea behind Android characters was that they had specific bonuses (immunity to poison/paralysis, but could instead be shocked; permanent trap vision; high physical stats) and specific penalties (no techniques), and... I don't see anything wrong with this as a basic idea, but it obviously needs to be fleshed out. As of current PSOBB, they get various traps, and shock is no longer unique to them... But maybe they should be able to pick something else instead of traps? I mean, nobody really ever used Fire traps, due to the damage being pretty negligible, so I could see a lot of players subtituting something else for that.

So if they can't use techniques, then give them something interesting they can do instead. If they keep with the stat differential that we've seen in previous games, they won't really have a reason to use offensive techniques, so I think Android Forces would be a really interesting entry point to seeing Androids with skills that do various things, and the Force class for them specializing in these instead of techniques.

Just saying, it's an idea that has potential, however unlikely it may well be to be implemented.

[RemiusTA]

Funny thing about androids not using techs? In PSIII, they could. And did it very well. One of them was your healer through most of the game, if I'm not mistaken (never played it. Just watching a Let's Play! was painful enough). PSIV, they weren't at all limited by the fact that they didn't have techs, since again, they had skills. And their skills were FANTASTIC. Heck, skills were what let Rika (resident newman of the game) do any notable damage, since all her techs were supportive.

As for PSO2's cast techers... I don't know, I kinda like the thought of having a highly defensive, low attack techer with occasional big damage attacks. I'd prefer it if they were high defense, high attack, low speed though.

I never had an issue with it for story purposes. I had an issue with it for balance purposes.

It not only makes Casts more interesting if they have serious differences from fleshies, but in return it also makes the fleshies more interesting as well. They could think of tons upon tons of ways to make gameplay with Casts different than gameplay with fleshie characters.

But they wont, so whatever; they wont even change the animations between the sexes.

[Cast Soldier]

You see?

Why are CASTs so godly? when they should be designed to clean up my dog's poop, fold my clothes, and make me tea.

Not in that order.

Infact forget CASTs using techs drama.

How the hell can a robot level up? YOU'RE A MACHINE, YOU HAVE DEFAULT PARTS, AT MOST MAYBE YOU CAN... LEARN HALFASSED TECHNIQUES LIKE A SAMURAI OR SOMETHING THAT WON'T MEAN SHIT WITH YOUR TIN ARMOR PLATED JOINTS!

...... That's just wrong :-x

On Cast using tech, me being a cast I know my techs should be no were near the power of a Human(like alone a Newman) of an class.

Yes I think HUnewn lvl10 Foie >>> FOcast lvl10 Foie

If I'm by myself an I want to tech a monster to death(even though I'm only doing 1 point of damage for each spell), I can its my right, If I want to. If Im on a team that's a different story. If I do that on a team and this is not conducive to teamwork or my role in the team, my teammates have the kick me out, blacklist me, and any other actions they feel is necessary

[Zorafim]

See though, if that's the case, why make a cast techer at all? If the option is there, then there should be a reason to do it. And besides, casts look damn good as techers.

[Selphea]

Yes I think HUnewn lvl10 Foie >>> FOcast lvl10 Foie

According to Alpha stats, that's not true IIRC

[RemiusTA]

which is precisely why this game is gonna suck

In their attempts to please everyone who bitches about their class not being able to cast/equip something, content will be so smeared out amongst everyone that nobody will even feel different anymore.

[Zorafim]

If they handle it like they did in PSU, where the only difference between characters is their job and their class, then yes it will. In that game, the only reason to make a cast force or a newman hunter was for the looks, or to purposely make a bad character (I had a friend who did this just for fun). Because of this, everyone will either make the best race for the job, or a balanced race to do every job. THAT creates monotony.

So what we need is a way to be able to make the race you want, the class you want, and still be able to be diverse from everyone else. Well, every race can do every class effectively. And with different weapons and skill trees for every class, every character can do the same job in different ways. Along with this, they'll be able to wear any piece of clothing, giving them the look they want, the feel they want, and the gameplay they want.

I really see no problem of everyone playing exactly the same.

[yoshiblue]

So Newmys and Humes get Techs and Castums get PAs?

[NoiseHERO]

If they handle it like they did in PSU, where the only difference between characters is their job and their class, then yes it will. In that game, the only reason to make a cast force or a newman hunter was for the looks, or to purposely make a bad character (I had a friend who did this just for fun). Because of this, everyone will either make the best race for the job, or a balanced race to do every job. THAT creates monotony.

So what we need is a way to be able to make the race you want, the class you want, and still be able to be diverse from everyone else. Well, every race can do every class effectively. And with different weapons and skill trees for every class, every character can do the same job in different ways. Along with this, they'll be able to wear any piece of clothing, giving them the look they want, the feel they want, and the gameplay they want.

I really see no problem of everyone playing exactly the same.

I'm not sure how the class system pans out.

But hopefully they can pull something off, where you can customize the class the way you want, and as your own choice take advantage of your race's bonuses.

So if you're a hunter newman or something. Just choose abilities/build up stats used to balance your attack and techs and stack eva. Human being the usual do whatever you want with the flexibility juggle usefull crap.

As for CAST techers... I'm still not even sure how they're supposed to pull that off AND keep techs relevant.

[Jonth]

Funny thing about androids not using techs? In PSIII, they could. And did it very well. One of them was your healer through most of the game, if I'm not mistaken (never played it. Just watching a Let's Play! was painful enough). PSIV, they weren't at all limited by the fact that they didn't have techs, since again, they had skills. And their skills were FANTASTIC. Heck, skills were what let Rika (resident newman of the game) do any notable damage, since all her techs were supportive.

As for PSO2's cast techers... I don't know, I kinda like the thought of having a highly defensive, low attack techer with occasional big damage attacks. I'd prefer it if they were high defense, high attack, low speed though.

In my opinion, they really weren't that great at using techs in PSIII. Yeah, Mieu was a healer that you had throughout the entire game, but compared to the vast majority of Layans, both Wren and Mieu had very small "Tech Parameter Screens" This was a feature that allowed you to re-balance each tech by taking from others to increase another, to a limited extent. Basically a big square that grew as the characters leveled.

Anyway, Layans almost always, if not always, had larger Tech Parameter Screens, level to level, than Layans. However, I will say that they at least had it better than pure blooded Orakians. They could use no techs whatsoever.

...I think I rambled on about something that really doesn't matter... Sorry...

[Cast Soldier]

According to Alpha stats, that's not true IIRC

That's until they start gaining lvls, then those lvl 10 Foies will be worlds apart. What does IIRC mean??


If they handle it like they did in PSU, where the only difference between characters is their job and their class, then yes it will. In that game, the only reason to make a cast force or a newman hunter was for the looks, or to purposely make a bad character (I had a friend who did this just for fun). Because of this, everyone will either make the best race for the job, or a balanced race to do every job. THAT creates monotony.

So what we need is a way to be able to make the race you want, the class you want, and still be able to be diverse from everyone else. Well, every race can do every class effectively. And with different weapons and skill trees for every class, every character can do the same job in different ways. Along with this, they'll be able to wear any piece of clothing, giving them the look they want, the feel they want, and the gameplay they want.

I really see no problem of everyone playing exactly the same.

That FREEDOM that you descibed, is the FREEDOM RemiusTA argued against. That FREEDOM made PSU what it is. I think you can have that FREEDOM, but it has to be FREEDOM WITH PENALTIES. RemiusTA gave the example of a Force using a 15* sword, I'll go even farther.
Newman, be proud you chopped that enemy with that 15* sword until it pulls it out off its shoulder and smacks you across the room. When you see a Beast slice that same enemy in half with the same 15* sword, you'll be more than physically hurt.
Cast, you just learned that lvl 10 Foie & and you used it to burn an enemy. Feel that, its the joy of hardwork. Feel that, its the claws of the enemy with some fur burned off. The Newman your teaming with steps up uses a lvl 10 Foie, the enemy goes up in a blazing inferno and turns to ash. Feel that, its feeling inferior.
Beast, you at the shooting range and you get a 10 shoot grouping of 2 inchs. Thats a great accomplishment. That Cast next to you with that same 10 shoots only has 1 hole in the middle of target, you realize yours is OK.
Newman, Cast, Beast, you all transition between classes with the grace of a gorilla with parkinson's, while that Human has the grace of a ballerina. Human don't get excited, an 1 thing you do by itself is crap.

Diversity is the best way to fight monotony. The Race would be the first step. Then class usage, then tech/PA usage, then skill tree abilites. That would make EVERY character different even if they look cosmetically different or the same.

[Jonth]

I have been wondering if they will add a line to the skill tree for forces that makes melee a more viable option (up ATT and DEF mostly) at the expense of tech damage (either through not having enough points for the more tech oriented skill trees, or through direct penalties). Still not as good as a hunter mind you, but it would create a completely different type of force based for the most part around support and melee damage. I believe this type of option would make FOcast and FOcaseal a more viable option.

Also, this skill tree could be used to make a HUmar or HUmarl into the stereotypical "magical swordsman". Decent at melee, tech damage, and support, but with drawbacks in each. Yeah, I know this could potentially lead to the horrendous error that was the Wartecher in PSU, but done right, it could work.

Just an idea.

[Omega-z]

Wartecher wasn't an error "Balance" was in PSU. And it's a great way to play, it's one of the most Fan Service styles in Japan and has a niche so it's not going away any time soon.

[Zorafim]

That's until they start gaining lvls, then those lvl 10 Foies will be worlds apart. What does IIRC mean??

If I Remember Correctly. I hate acronyms, I really do.


Diversity is the best way to fight monotony. The Race would be the first step. Then class usage, then tech/PA usage, then skill tree abilites. That would make EVERY character different even if they look cosmetically different or the same.

I'm sorry, I'm not getting your point. You're giving me a ton of examples, but not a lot of theory. Are you saying that races should diversify themselves by only being good at one thing? And that the only reason they should be good at that one thing is because they have the stats for it? That kinda sounds like the opposite of diversity to me, if that's what you're saying.


...I think I rambled on about something that really doesn't matter... Sorry...

I think I just got PS Pwned. That's what I get for thinking I knew something about a game I didn't play.
By the way, mad props to you for being able to sit through that game.

[Jonth]

Wartecher wasn't an error "Balance" was in PSU. And it's a great way to play, it's one of the most Fan Service styles in Japan and has a niche so it's not going away any time soon.

Well, I did say the error that was "Wartecher in PSU", meaning, I was taking into account the balance issue. The term Wartecher comes from PSU anyway, so by merely stating Wartecher, all issues, including balance, are implied... At least in my opinion. I actually love the concept of the Wartecher/magical swordsmen in other games, that is why I proposed my idea. So really, I don't want it to go away, I want it to be made better.

High defense with crappy damage output doesn't work for me, at least not in a game where defense has few uses. That is why I played Wartecher for a few days, and then switched to Acrotecher, so I at least could have one thing I could do better than any class. Maybe I am mistaken, but didn't they tweak the Wartecher class in Japan, raising the skill cap to 40?

[Omega-z]

Yeah they did tweak Wartecher, made it better. It's miles apart from mostly what you'd played back on the US/EU server's. lol some where some odd tweaks too.0.0

[RemiusTA]

Wartecher wasn't an error "Balance" was in PSU. And it's a great way to play, it's one of the most Fan Service styles in Japan and has a niche so it's not going away any time soon.

ive explained tons of times why Wartecher (and every hybrid class that didn't abuse a single weapon) failed completely in PSU. There was absolutely no diverse animations or balancing between the classes or races.

The only distinguishing attribute between any class in PSU is stats, and maybe attack/casting speed in some cases. As such, the extremes are the ones that stand out the most, and pretty much every class inbetween was boring and mediocre. Not to mention you aren't ever really encouraged to experiment -- Female Newman Fighting classes are about as mediocre as you can get, just like Male Cast Force classes are as mediocre you can get in that category.

There are no distinguishing figures aside from stats and numbers, thus no depth, thus classes like wartecher sucked.

[Selphea]

There are no distinguishing figures aside from stats and numbers, thus no depth

What is this I don't even-

How do computer RPGs create "distinguishing figures" other than stats and numbers? :O

[RemiusTA]

varied effects that go with your stats and numbers?

PSU is an action rpg so certian things are different, but the same concepts apply. I was probably exaggerating the whole "no depth" part, but it seriously was the reason why the classes were so terrible.

But to suggest that RPGs are made of nothing but an ATP + wpn damage + elemental damage + PA multiplier....no, that's just PSU being PSU. The lack of varied animations is just one obvious part of the issue -- some(most) MMOs have at least SOME different animations, but still nothing is different.


long story short, there are so many ways to "distinguish features" that it isn't even funny. PSU just never tried. It made an attempt to add something new to battle by giving you Photon Art combos, but in the end all it did was make everything worse, as the game went from:

> battle situation changes
> equip better suited weapon

to:

> battle situation changes
> equip weapon with most damaging Photon Art

and thus alot of the depth of the game was lost. For instance, instead of Twin Swords being fast but weak and swords being powerful but slow, Twin Swords were both faster and more damaging than any sword due to photon arts. It completely mixed and matched the functions of the weapons to the point where they didn't even matter anymore. And by the time PSP2 came around, shit just didn't make sense anymore.


Anyway, PSO2 is probably going to run into similar problems. I can see it already. One issue nobody talked about is the fact that elemental weapons STILL do elemental effects without the use of a separate weapon function. And ranged weapons also seem to have absolutely no accuracy fallout due to distance or recoil. If monsters don't "block" (cause miss) anymore, then you already know who the OP class is. I also personally think the 100/100 regenerating PP idea is a FUCKING stupid idea for forces, i could have sworn PSP2 proved that already. Removing RELIANCE on fluids is one thing, but throwing the concept out the window entirely just screwed it up completely imo.


That FREEDOM that you descibed, is the FREEDOM RemiusTA argued against. That FREEDOM made PSU what it is. I think you can have that FREEDOM, but it has to be FREEDOM WITH PENALTIES. RemiusTA gave the example of a Force using a 15* sword, I'll go even farther.

The only thing i want to say by arguing against PSU's freedom (well, really PSP2's freedom) is that it is NOT a fix. It doesn't make the game better, it just temporary alleviates the problem by not FORCING you to sit through it's mistakes. It still exists though, you just don't have to bother with it 24/7.

[Omega-z]

PSU was it's stats being part of the problem and lack of depth. but classes that aren't as good is all in the eye of the beholder and what you make of it.


I known what you mean about all the PA+ Ele.....and offensive stuff RemiusTA. it sucks when basically PA's where broken to no other and did not focus on the other stats correctly. the funny thing is you go back to old school PSU before they added anything above Lv. 50 for character Lv., everything seem to be more balanced with monsters and still where a challenge. everything above that time period went to heck and got weird. lol I remember Parties would get butt raped by Bel Panon's that was epic.

[RemiusTA]

Older PSU was indeed more fun than around the time i quit. Nobody was as powerful, but the tier gaps were MUCH closer to eachother.

[Magus_84]

Haven't done more than skim through the topic. I just hope that a playstyle similar to Acrotecher (mediocre attack techs with great buffs and good physicals) or Guntecher is possible in this.

I like running around with pistols/crossbows/mechguns buffing things.

[Selphea]

varied effects that go with your stats and numbers?

PSU is an action rpg so certian things are different, but the same concepts apply. I was probably exaggerating the whole "no depth" part, but it seriously was the reason why the classes were so terrible.

But to suggest that RPGs are made of nothing but an ATP + wpn damage + elemental damage + PA multiplier....no, that's just PSU being PSU. The lack of varied animations is just one obvious part of the issue -- some(most) MMOs have at least SOME different animations, but still nothing is different.

On an abstract level, RPGs really are made of nothing but stats and numbers: character base damage + weapon damage + random buffs/whatever, range, AoE size/shape, startup, recovery, cooldown and maybe a proc on the caster or targets. If you have an engine that can handle this, you have an RPG already.

Unless what you're saying is that different races and classes should have skills unique to them, which is definitely lacking in PSU. But this has always been the case in PS games.

[RemiusTA]

well just because a game has numbers popping off doesn't really make it an RPG. We just like to call it that. There is much more to a good RPG game then numbers popping off an enemy when you hit it.


It really has less to do with racial traits, gender traits, and all that other crap. It just has to do with making the game dynamic, where you can really get something different out of playing the game when you choose a different character from another one.


It doesn't have to be serious, it doesn't have to be SUPER IN-DEPTH, it just has to be there, and the players will notice, and it will be a much better game.

[Jonth]

On an abstract level, RPGs really are made of nothing but stats and numbers: character base damage + weapon damage + random buffs/whatever, range, AoE size/shape, startup, recovery, cooldown and maybe a proc on the caster or targets. If you have an engine that can handle this, you have an RPG already..

Technically, on an abstract level, all games are made of stats and numbers to some lesser or greater degree. Even a FPS has most of what you said (weapon damage, range, AOE shape/size, startup, recovery, cooldown). I think Remius is talking about coming up with creative ways to implement those stats and numbers. In PSO, I'm told certain classes had faster attack animations. Yes, this is a stat/number interpretation, but it did add depth and diversity.

[Cast Soldier]

If I Remember Correctly. I hate acronyms, I really do.
I'm sorry, I'm not getting your point. You're giving me a ton of examples, but not a lot of theory. Are you saying that races should diversify themselves by only being good at one thing? And that the only reason they should be good at that one thing is because they have the stats for it? That kinda sounds like the opposite of diversity to me, if that's what you're saying.

Sorry, I was tired, that keep coming to mind. It's not what I meant, I'll explain below.


varied effects that go with your stats and numbers?

PSU is an action rpg so certian things are different, but the same concepts apply. I was probably exaggerating the whole "no depth" part, but it seriously was the reason why the classes were so terrible.

But to suggest that RPGs are made of nothing but an ATP + wpn damage + elemental damage + PA multiplier....no, that's just PSU being PSU. The lack of varied animations is just one obvious part of the issue -- some(most) MMOs have at least SOME different animations, but still nothing is different.

long story short, there are so many ways to "distinguish features" that it isn't even funny. PSU just never tried. It made an attempt to add something new to battle by giving you Photon Art combos, but in the end all it did was make everything worse, as the game went from:

> battle situation changes
> equip better suited weapon

to:

> battle situation changes
> equip weapon with most damaging Photon Art

and thus alot of the depth of the game was lost. For instance, instead of Twin Swords being fast but weak and swords being powerful but slow, Twin Swords were both faster and more damaging than any sword due to photon arts. It completely mixed and matched the functions of the weapons to the point where they didn't even matter anymore. And by the time PSP2 came around, shit just didn't make sense anymore.

Anyway, PSO2 is probably going to run into similar problems. I can see it already. One issue nobody talked about is the fact that elemental weapons STILL do elemental effects without the use of a separate weapon function. And ranged weapons also seem to have absolutely no accuracy fallout due to distance or recoil. If monsters don't "block" (cause miss) anymore, then you already know who the OP class is. I also personally think the 100/100 regenerating PP idea is a FUCKING stupid idea for forces, i could have sworn PSP2 proved that already. Removing RELIANCE on fluids is one thing, but throwing the concept out the window entirely just screwed it up completely imo.

The only thing i want to say by arguing against PSU's freedom (well, really PSP2's freedom) is that it is NOT a fix. It doesn't make the game better, it just temporary alleviates the problem by not FORCING you to sit through it's mistakes. It still exists though, you just don't have to bother with it 24/7.


well just because a game has numbers popping off doesn't really make it an RPG. We just like to call it that. There is much more to a good RPG game then numbers popping off an enemy when you hit it.

It really has less to do with racial traits, gender traits, and all that other crap. It just has to do with making the game dynamic, where you can really get something different out of playing the game when you choose a different character from another one.

It doesn't have to be serious, it doesn't have to be SUPER IN-DEPTH, it just has to be there, and the players will notice, and it will be a much better game.

I don't have a problem with the freedom of PSP2, just how they did it. I saw this alot, people raise the Force, Ranger, & Vangaurd classes to get certain skills and never play them again. Put those skills on Hunter along with weapons from other classes, effectively wasting lvls. I think the class system should of been like Kingdom Heart. You pick 1 class(Hunter, Ranger, Force) that determinds what order you learn the skills(you still learn them all), so you start "stuck" in that class as you gain lvls your character becomes more customizable. Or you have 1 class(Vangaurd) that gains all the skills at a even rate, and you customize yourself as you see fit.
The problem began with PSU when they took out that crap. I'll explain below.


On an abstract level, RPGs really are made of nothing but stats and numbers: character base damage + weapon damage + random buffs/whatever, range, AoE size/shape, startup, recovery, cooldown and maybe a proc on the caster or targets. If you have an engine that can handle this, you have an RPG already.

Unless what you're saying is that different races and classes should have skills unique to them, which is definitely lacking in PSU. But this has always been the case in PS games.


Technically, on an abstract level, all games are made of stats and numbers to some lesser or greater degree. Even a FPS has most of what you said (weapon damage, range, AOE shape/size, startup, recovery, cooldown). I think Remius is talking about coming up with creative ways to implement those stats and numbers. In PSO, I'm told certain classes had faster attack animations. Yes, this is a stat/number interpretation, but it did add depth and diversity.

Selphia & Jonth sum it up nicely. In PSU since yo can switch classes freely, there was no need to use HU/RA/FO(like in PSO). If you made a Cast, you made a HUcast, Racast, Focast. The same with the other Races, so even more so than PSO they should of kept each races special traits. I put this in another thread
Race Abilities
1. No race should have a Auto-regen PP except Newmans. Every race should get a set amount of PP with Normal hits.
Humans 15 PP
Newmans 10 PP(plus Auto-regen PP)
Beasts 10 PP(if they put them in the game, I'll put ??)
Casts 5 PP
2. Casts get HP Auto-Regen
3. The way each race use Techniques(Animations will be slow or fast).
Newmans will do all Techs fast(Basic,Novice,Advance)
Humans will do Advance slow, the other 2 fast
Beasts(?) will do Basic fast, the other 2 slow
Casts will do all 3 slow
4. Status ailments
Newmans will have low status resistance
Humans will have average status resistance
Beasts will have high status resistance
Casts will have their own status ailments like Short-Circuit(the Cast goes into a cunfused like state while losing HP), Shock(other races lose some HP an flinch. Cast lose moderate HP first go into a paralyzed state than continue to lose HP), and Over-heat(the Cast lose a moderate HP that go into a burn state than continue to lose HP. They lose the ability to do PA/Techs, if it is not taken care of the Cast goes into a stun state until the Cast coolsdown)
5. Element Resistance
Newmans have high element resistance
Humans have average element resistance
Beasts(?) have low element resistance
Casts have NO element resistance
Class Abilites
The only thing I would change is the way each class use Techs
Forces can use all levels of to the max
Rangers can only use Basic & Novice and at only half power, they can't use J/Z
Hunters can only use Basic & Novice and at only half power, they can't use S/D
Gender Difference
Male & Females should just have slight stat differences in their race
Oh Yeah. That Step/Dive Roll/Teleport dogde will cost 30 PP for each use
That with what I said about MAGS, and what I said earlier along with the vast amount of clothing options would make virtually almost character different, both cosmetically and play-style. The arguement of Hunter vs Ranger vs Force isn't that big of an issue as you can switch class freely. It arguement should be Human vs Newman vs Beast vs Cast. Gender should have little impact. An stats are moot because of units(yeah a Newman has more base MST/tech than I do. If i equip 3 Heavenly God Minds, yeah that advantage is gone). There has to be more than just stats. To get balanced it usually takes changing more than one thing like Selphia & Jonth suggest.
A balanced team(2HU,1RA,1FO) of all Cast should play different than a balanced team of all Newmans, because the 2 races hands each class differently(from weaknesse, strengths, animations, to even how each character is played by the player). No way am I saying this is how PSO2 should be made or even that my ideas are the best. I'm just throwing them out there to see what other people think and see others ideas.