I hope they cut mags

[ShinMaruku]

A radical idea, I'm sure, but hear me out.
Never ever has such a concept ever worked well seamlessly into a game.
Even worse is putting something in just for the sake of it being there that also never works, it just comes off as intrusive. Take for example DOA4 the head guy loves gambling thus he made the game play out like it's gambling (all good and fine but on a competitive game you want something solid and less likely to boil down to luck. People hate when shit is random)

If Sonic Team was not originally looking to put them in and due to fans complaining I think they should ignore that part. There are many other ways to boost stats.


If you guys want mags give a good reason for them to be in rather than "Oh well it was in the original game"
Discussion is good.

[RenzokukenZ]

Why mention Sonic Team if they're not involved?

[NoiseHERO]

Why mention Sonic Team if they're not involved?

How about, they're just not CALLED sonic team anymore? Since this keeps coming up a lot. @_@

Also I almost thought this was a troll thread. Technically we don't know how mags play out yet so I can't say much of their uses and if they're actually be useful or if they're trying to appeal to original PSO fans more.

But the evidence we do hav- I dunno I just can't say for sure.

[Enforcer MKV]

Basically the same as Mich said;

We don't know how mags are being implemented in this version. Though, based on how I've seen them used before;

They were a time sink, and money sink, and even a cute little companion all at the same time!

I personally think that those reasons are enough to have them in the game.

Though, like has been stated previously, we don't know what the current form of the mags are, so we can't really say.

[Dinosaur]

What does your argument from DoA4 have to do with the concept of MAGs?

[Zyrusticae]

I don't really give a damn.

Mags have never been a sticking point for me. Never really saw the appeal. Still don't, for that matter. Are they vanity pets? Well, no, they provide photon blasts and stat boosts. Why do they provide those? Well, because apparently some people react well to the idea of raising a pet that provides statistical bonuses.

I don't. I prefer my character to be self-contained. The idea of being heavily gimped without my pet just doesn't sit right with me. I think it's better to just have a regular ol' stat and skill system that's tied exclusively to the character than to have critical stats tied to any external item.

Pets that fight just add to clutter and lag. They can either be completely overpowered, in which case everyone has to use them, or they can be completely useless, and thus they don't really add anything to the game other than eye-candy. Either one is not good.

If mags come back at all, I could get behind them being vanity pets with minor secondary functions (looting, dropping items with a chance for a rare when you feed them, and such). I'd much rather not see them return to being the 100% completely mandatory stat-boosters they were in the original.

[yoshiblue]

Well it would stop people from making new op characters.

[Macman]

Mags would be nice, but they will have to have a balanced stat system to make full use of them. Ever since GC certain mags have been useless because of the stat requirement to obtain them causing other more important stats to be ignored.

[yoshiblue]

Unless they make them like PSZ mags?

[Macman]

PSZ's stat system was fucked up too. You pretty much just stacked attack/mind on all your characters because the damage formula was crummy. Defense didn't do jack (Deband 15 reduces your damage by about 8 tops) and you only used dex on your mag instead of materials because your mag's atp wasn't taken into account for shifta.

[yoshiblue]

Well darn.

[amtalx]

I liked the original PSO mags, and they were actually kind of revolutionary at the time. Respec options in RPGs are almost a given these days, but were unheard of ten years ago. Mags gave players a way to redefine their stats on the fly. It was great for experimentation as well as providing different options for pairing Mags with bosses or specific weapons for maximum efficiency

[ShinMaruku]

What does your argument from DoA4 have to do with the concept of MAGs?

Puting something in just for the sake of them being there when it can be at odds of the design is bad.

[RemiusTA]

A radical idea, I'm sure, but hear me out.
Never ever has such a concept ever worked well seamlessly into a game.
Even worse is putting something in just for the sake of it being there that also never works, it just comes off as intrusive. Take for example DOA4 the head guy loves gambling thus he made the game play out like it's gambling (all good and fine but on a competitive game you want something solid and less likely to boil down to luck. People hate when shit is random)

If Sonic Team was not originally looking to put them in and due to fans complaining I think they should ignore that part. There are many other ways to boost stats.


If you guys want mags give a good reason for them to be in rather than "Oh well it was in the original game"
Discussion is good.


It worked in PSO. If you recall, Mags were not only a source of extra stats but also for mag blasts, a few special effects and even the use of a few weapons.


If you look at the CONCEPT outside of PSO's application....It's a simple and innovative method to not only drastically increase character customization options, but also utulize more of the field drops that you otherwise wouldn't need, give your character varied attacks, and it also served as a great past-time for leveling -- while youre talking with buddies, perodically feed your mag. If stat points were better balanced in PSO, then Mags could have been a wonderful way to really do some customization work with your character. If you have a Hunewearl but want to rely more on Techniques, then give her an MST mag. If you have a Force character who you'd want to be more durable, you can increase Evasion to raise the block rate.


Now....if you take THAT concept, and imagine if PSO2 had weapons that depended on more than one stat (for example, remember how PSP2 had guns factor ATA into the damage equation? Or how Bows factored MST into the equation?) You could use the custom stat ability of the MAG to tailor your character towards specific weapons. If daggers used EVA+ATP, then you could use your mag on your Hucast to make them more accurate to be better with Daggers. The problem with everything in this series is how they implement it. PSO built alot of its systems around things working in unison with one another, but this rarely happened in PSU or its offspring, which is why the idea of MAGs obviously doesn't seem very promising. You may not have noticed it, but MAGs had alot of different systems tied into them. You didn't ONLY use them for stat boosting.

At endgame, of course, these effects mostly diminish, as your characters stats aren't usually as important as their gear anymore. But if those sort of things were balanced out, i don't see why on earth they'd cut such a unique feature out of the game. But lol no, MAGs were definitely were not a "bad" design choice. I don't know where you're getting that from. Anything can be a "bad design choice" if it's implemented wrong.


In fact, i'd say MAGs are the most innovative version of a "customizable stat" mechanic in any MMO i've ever played before, because they are technically treated as "evolving equipment". You're able to take them out and switch them on the fly and completely change your strengths/weaknesses if wanted to, not to mention there were tons of forms, including rare ones, that required nothing more than precise feeding to acquire. (or Mag Cells, of course.)

[ShinMaruku]

You see you can add the blasts as something else and not have it tied to a mag. You could tie it to a equip or talent a character has. Same as the stat growth you could put that directly into the character through tertiary systems. ( Like certain items you can get or as something you an do to a town make it like augmentations, or by simple use of tactics and play style make the stats go up)
I say let them take that theme and make something new with them.

[BIG OLAF]

I don't really give a damn.

Mags have never been a sticking point for me. Never really saw the appeal. Still don't, for that matter. Are they vanity pets? Well, no, they provide photon blasts and stat boosts. Why do they provide those? Well, because apparently some people react well to the idea of raising a pet that provides statistical bonuses.

I don't. I prefer my character to be self-contained. The idea of being heavily gimped without my pet just doesn't sit right with me. I think it's better to just have a regular ol' stat and skill system that's tied exclusively to the character than to have critical stats tied to any external item.

^All of this. These points are why Mags in PSO annoyed me, and why I felt that nixing Mags entirely and reworking everything based around them would have been better, and simpler. Though, I am pretty curious as to why SEGA keeps talking about Mags in PSO2, but we haven't seen them yet. Kind of odd.

[SELENNA]

The solution is to make MAGS with no stats boost, but enchancements, like ATK boost, MST boost, rare drops multiplier, etc. Just don't make them boost your intitial stats and be able to wield tier 1 weapons at low levels. That's what made MAGs bad IMO. The concept is neat and needs to return. Just with some big changes.

[yoshiblue]

Could make them so they allow you to do special skills with certain weapons and from there level said skills up. Like a PA only maybe more epic.

[•Col•]

TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DID NOT PLAY PSO WITHIN A FEW YEARS OF IT'S RELEASE:

Just stop.

You're not going to understand why Mags were so cool.

You just can't now.

You never will.

I'm sorry.

amtalx explained it pretty well.

[NoiseHERO]

TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DID NOT PLAY PSO WITHIN A FEW YEARS OF IT'S RELEASE:

Just stop.

You're not going to understand why Mags were so cool.

You just can't now.

You never will.

I'm sorry.

amtalx explained it pretty well.

It has to be in the game because it was cool to early PSO fans...

If it weren't for them focusing on you guys for like 60% of this game that'd be so wrong. D:

[Revy]

Tamagotchis were popular when sega was conceptualizing PSO. MAGs are just Tamagotchis with stats. Don't kill my Tamagotchi ;_;

Also PSU mags were just craft tables with legs, and those were pretty useless and had to be baby sat or they'd die - I'd rather have PSO style mags than anything else.

[Selphea]

PSU mags were awesome meat shields who will gladly take vanda fireballs for you while you spam slicers

Fixed.

[yoshiblue]

Both of those made me do a hardy laugh.

[ShinMaruku]

I sazonde vandas and hit them with gibarta. I need no meatshield!

[Selphea]

I sazonde vandas and hit them with gibarta. I need no meatshield!

Nerfed on JP PC ='(!

[Zyrusticae]

Funny thing is, they can easily just give people free or cheap respecs and it'd serve the same purpose as mag trading - only without the item trading hands and without the sheer brokenness. (And also without the dull monotony of mag feeding, har har~)

Photon blasts can easily be a character-specific thing that you get to pick as you level up (as opposed to having to look up a guide to see the exact distribution of items you must feed the mag to get a specific blast and even then I'm pretty sure there were only one or two blasts actually worth a damn by higher levels anyways).

[RemiusTA]

Hey, can you guys please talk about the CONCEPT of the idea and not the way it was implemented into a game you didn't like?

Saying an idea was bad because "Towards the end only one of them mattered anyway" or "The super endgame boss was easy because of Charge Vulcans/BD" is entirely redundant, because it has little to do with the idea and more its application. Unless it's simply a bad idea, which isn't so much the case here.


And picking PBs as you level up i think is still inferior to the original method, since in the end, you can easily and instantly just switch mags and get another whole 3 PBs. It's also, in the end, infinitely better than the whole "gain a stat point" crap because 1) you don't have to grind to benefit, and 2) just like with PBs, you can equip/unequip/swap/trade them. And Mag evolutions/PBs never had anything to do with what you fed your mag. I think the MAG idea was better since it was seperate from your character.

Oh BTW any "lv1 broken character" issues can be adverted with very simple restrictions.

[Revy]

And Mag evolutions/PBs never had anything to do with what you fed your mag.

That's just wrong sir.

[yoshiblue]

Yeah your right but I did say stuffs about new ways to use them.

Mag evos and PBs were affected by feedings?

[Macman]

Greatly. What you fed mags determined what stats they would gain, and the alignment of stats would determine what form they will assume in the future, which in turn determines what PBs they would learn.

[NoiseHERO]

Actually I think they should make photon blasts like summons, functionally combining nanoblasts and SUVs (mirage blasts were just SUVs for fleshies to me) AND PMs where you can summon a monster and it can either fight along side you and give it simple commands like pokemon!!!!!!!! or you can mount it, till it's gauge is empty! Or you can just have it use all of it's PB energy to nuke the whole room... and depending on how much energy is left is how much damage it'll do.

And of course to keep it from just being all Overpowered the summons can have like super specific functions and strengths and weaknesses like usual.

Well this mostly comes from using a photob blast in PSO and thinking "coooooool LETS KILL THIS MOB- oh it just does one attack thingie... okay... ehn whatever, then... kinda cool"

Well not as bad as my reaction seeing the reindeer demon thingie, and all it did was heal you or something.



Would just be badass fighting a rockbear or something and someone just says "fuckit" and summons a bahumat looking thingie to swoop down and punch it in the face and shit lightning every where for like a minute or something...

Yeah I drank too much soda today, normally I only vent this imagination in my bathtub or on msn or on notepad or on photoshop.

[Revy]

Yeah your right but I did say stuffs about new ways to use them.

Mag evos and PBs were affected by feedings?

Heck ya they were, depending on what you fed the mags affected their evolution and depending on the evolution it took would give you a different PB. The guides for mag feeding was what brought me to this site to start with.

[Dinosaur]

Wow, I feel sorry for those who didn't play PSO and got stuck with PSU...

[RemiusTA]

Man, the fucking look on someone's face when they summon a Mag Blast for the first time is absolutely PRICELESS. Crummy graphics even on PSOGC for today's standards, but people never fail to have a "HOLY SHIT HOW DID I DO THAT" moment after seeing it.




*sigh*.....I miss when videogames were able to do that to people. I guess it never happened in PSU because it wasn't nearly as impressive. In order for an SUV to be impressive in PSU, it has to be ridiculously over the top since you do ridiculous shit 24/7 in that game.


Which is why i say, it's always better to be mostly conservative when doing games like these. If you start off with SUPER 10 HIT AIR COMBO shit by level 20, then you'll barely be able to wow the player by the time they get to the meat of the content. Then you'll have to resort to shit like PSP2i's Chargeshot II garbage. Then the whole GAME looks cheesy and retarded.

[yoshiblue]

Heck ya they were, depending on what you fed the mags affected their evolution and depending on the evolution it took would give you a different PB. The guides for mag feeding was what brought me to this site to start with.

Heh, I know. I've been watching anime so when I said it, I was visualizing someone turning there head slowly with a serious look asking that.



Man, the fucking look on someone's face when they summon a Mag Blast for the first time is absolutely PRICELESS.

Crummy graphics even on PSOGC for today's standards, but people never fail to have a "HOLY SHIT HOW DID I DO THAT" moment after seeing it.


*sigh*.....I miss when videogames were able to do that to people.

When I saw it I just said "Were the am I?! Whats going on!?" only to question if it really did anything at all.

[kyuuketsuki]

It has to be in the game because it was cool to early PSO fans...
I don't get this attitude, I really don't (assuming that comment is some form of sarcasm, if I'm misinterpreting your statement I apologize in advance).

It's a sequel. To PSO. Why the hell is it so odd to think that maybe they'd want to appeal to fans of PSO? If they wanted to make an entirely new game that wasn't beholden to PSO, then why the %*$^ would they be making PSO2? Why the hell is anyone here, on a message board about PSO, if they didn't like PSO and don't want its sequel to be anything like it?

MAGs were awesome, especially if you played PSO since the early days. No, they weren't perfect and there were some things about them that could use improvement. No one is asking them to bring back the ability to make uber lvl1 chars by equipping them with lvl200 MAGs, or as they were in PSU, or any other stupid crap. But there's really no reason not to include MAGs as a sort of companion/evolving piece of eqiupment that can give special bonuses. Obviously, they should be thought through well and not be broken or tedious. Although, what was so tedious about pausing every so often and feeding it three items I never understood. Yeah, it's boring if you just sit in a game doing nothing else. But that was your choice if you did that, it wasn't the intent.

[RemiusTA]

Personally, i only think the "BAHAMUT GIGAMEGAKAMEHAMEHADOKEN" mag blasts should be avaliable to teams who actually are coordinated enough to pull off a PB Chain.

I think it would be absolutely awesome if individual mag blasts were like the PSO ones, but if the whole team waits until they're all at 100% CRITICAL LIMIT they'll Team-Summon their mag blasts, all 4 of them do the Fusion Dance, and then they turn into raptor jesus and shoop da woop the field to death.



I'd love this game long time. Especially if the effect/attack changed with the combination of mag blasts you were using, which could add even more depth to the system.

[NoiseHERO]

I feel sorry for those who couldn't enjoy ANYTHING out of PSU so they had to wait 10 years for the next game while hating it for not being "PSO2."

D<

But yeah PSU nano blasts were cool too just in both cases for PSO and PSU ONLY the first time. :\

@Kyuu I never meant to imply it was odd or wrong that they want to appeal to PSO fans. If anything it's clearly obvious they're appealing to all of their fans.

[RemiusTA]

I loved em both for what they were worth, and ive gone through my "PSO is trash" and "PSU is trash" periods respectfully.

In the end, i'd say PSO was a much better designed game, while PSU was a very fun game, just in the wrong place for me. I loved PSU up until the point I made a Force and realized how fun they were. And through that one F Newman Force, every single flaw of the game was shoved in my face. Same with PSP2. Mained a force from the get-go. From "WOW THESE CHANGES ROCK, TECHNIC COMBOS" to "Why the fuck do i die in 1 hit, have an empty PP bar after 2 casts, all my technics are useless and i cast slower than congress?". Was sick of the shit by lv 95, had no clue how people were so into it.


I had tons of great moments in AotI though. TBH, i'd have looked past everything wrong with that game and probably still be playing (even though PC got nixed) if Sega didn't suck ass at running games. But i would have quit the SECOND edward walked in here and basically announced that the people he works for doesn't give a fuck about us. No way in hell im paying them $10 a month to basically do absolutely nothing.

[Dinosaur]

You shouldn't feel sorry for them, they were playing way better games!

[yoshiblue]

It was a cool game PSU. I never nano blasted due to playing as a human or newmen. I didn't even use SUVs on my old main. I only thing I dislike was the flail your arm attack animations and the cave music. Oh I hate you cave music.

[ShadowDragon28]

I don't get this attitude, I really don't (assuming that comment is some form of sarcasm, if I'm misinterpreting your statement I apologize in advance).

It's a sequel. To PSO. Why the hell is it so odd to think that maybe they'd want to appeal to fans of PSO? If they wanted to make an entirely new game that wasn't beholden to PSO, then why the %*$^ would they be making PSO2? Why the hell is anyone here, on a message board about PSO, if they didn't like PSO and don't want its sequel to be anything like it?

MAGs were awesome, especially if you played PSO since the early days. No, they weren't perfect and there were some things about them that could use improvement. No one is asking them to bring back the ability to make uber lvl1 chars by equipping them with lvl200 MAGs, or as they were in PSU, or any other stupid crap. But there's really no reason not to include MAGs as a sort of companion/evolving piece of eqiupment that can give special bonuses. Obviously, they should be thought through well and not be broken or tedious. Although, what was so tedious about pausing every so often and feeding it three items I never understood. Yeah, it's boring if you just sit in a game doing nothing else. But that was your choice if you did that, it wasn't the intent.
QFT.

PSO2 must have evolvable mags that you can equip and travel with you IMO.

[yoshiblue]

Maybe a head sucker/leach in the shape of link's hat.

[NoiseHERO]

You shouldn't feel sorry for them, they were playing way better games!

Video games are overrated after PS2 died, I just play Phantasy Star!

[sugarFO]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I love mags they keep me company when I'm not in a party!! And they're so cute and such a grind!!

[Fenn777]

What if MAGs increased your stats by a % instead of a solid number? So feeding a MAG items to increase mind could give you X% bonus to mind? Plus with skill trees MAGs could increase certain skills. You could even have MAGs fed a certain way allow players to equip items their class couldn't normally use.

Not all those ideas need to be incorporated, but their are plenty of ways to make MAGs purposeful.

[Zyrusticae]

I fail to see how a % increase is in any way better than a flat number.

Especially since it'll create an exponential growth curve, which is virtually impossible to balance properly...

[SolRiver]

I absolutely loved PSO mag.

I collected many of them, I raised them all.

Mags help to customize my character's look and personality and differentiate myself from other players.

When I get sick of a character, I can make another one and not lose what I worked for and quickly gain level to catch up to my friends. If it weren't for the mags, it would have been a ton more difficult to stick with friends, and it would require more endless grinding than ever just to enjoy a different class/race with friends. (got to ultimate mode offline at lv41 helped me level "blazingly" fast to pass lv100 and play online ultimate mode with friends)

Combing photon blast to have lv50 shifta and deband was really awesome as well, which really give you a feeling that you and your friend are well synchronized.

It really was a shame that mags were so useless in PSU. It is like playing half of PSO with your character being more OP than ever inside beat them up game. But never mind that, this is about mags.

Sure, there are problems in PSO like every game got their problems, but the fun I had far exceed the like of PSU.

I kind of wish symbol chat was brought back as well. I remember spending hours to come up with creative designs... Too bad worthless children can only come up with penis and sex symbol to spam with. That really shouldn't be a problem any more, as moderating and reporting abuse is norm in online game these days. PSO's dev team's biggest mistake is that behind the back of their mind, they think people are kind and intelligent.

[Tetsaru]

PSO wouldn't be PSO without MAG's. Along with the fact that things like Tamagotchi and Pokemon were popular around the time PSO came out, MAG's allowed for character customization, both visually, statistically, and in terms of move capabilities. And on top of that, they could be traded just like other items.

Really, I think anyone who doesn't like the idea of MAG's just isn't willing to put in the time and effort to raise their own properly and are afraid of gimping their character. If that's the case, then why not just trade for one someone else has made?

[vPharaohv]

I LiEk MaGs >:D

[WiZ1988]

Mags in PSO were awesome. I will be very unhappy if they are done away with. For the people who don't want mags and say it's a waste of time, simply don't fucking use them in the game if they are there. I sure as hell don't want those damn partner machines.

[Selphea]

Mags (PSO), GAS (PSU), Manastones (Aion), Soul Builds (RIFT)... there's more than one way to implement swappable character customizations that require hours of grind to build up. Not that there was much customization in PSO, everyone had the same stats at the end due to max stat caps, and usually rocked Sato or that one Cell mag with invincibility with Twins/Dolphin/Pewpew.

I don't really care either way as long as the mag system (if any) doesn't have:

1) The mag with the best stats as a huge corporate logo (http://www.pso-world.com/images/guides/ep4mags/BB-YAHOO_MAG-ACTION-1-FULL.jpg).

2) Fugly looking generic mags with the only option to make them look better being Cash Shop gacha only - US$5 a spin for a 90% chance at junk crafting mats, 9% chance of fruity colors and 1% for something you actually want!

[Ecchi]

If you dont like cool f***in mags floating around you then f*** you.

[BIG OLAF]

For the people who don't want mags and say it's a waste of time, simply don't fucking use them in the game if they are there.

It would be kind of hard to not use them if they affect your character as intricately as they did in PSO, you know. That would sort of be like saying, "Oh hey. Here's some armor and a sword, but you don't have to use them if you don't like them."

But, I'll be damned if all this "WAT YOU DON'T LIKE MAGS OMG YOUR DUMB AND STUFF" hoopla ain't just hilarious.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

It appears to me that most of you really don't understand Mags. Mags were integrated heart and soul into PSO. Don't think of them strictly as pets. Think of them chiefly as customizable auxiliary equipment. It's a unit equipped to a special slot, which, by a system with clearly defined limitations and mechanics, can be customized and traded.

PSO was a grinding game. It had a very high level cap which required enormous amounts of experience, and only a relative few have ever achieved it legitimately. In this type of game, you have a lot of time on your hands, where you will be doing the same thing over and over. It's very important to have something to break up the monotony. Better yet, if it's something useful. Such as Mags.

Simply feeding a Mag wasn't enough. You had to consider what to feed it, and to do that, you had to carefully weigh what you really need from it. This gave the player something to think about during the endless marathon sessions of mindless slaughter. Sure, the Mag system was complicated, but you could obtain a clear benefit very easily, and you had plenty of time in the game to think it through. Afterall, if simple repetitive gameplay were enough, then Call of Duty would be all we need.

People complain that Mags allowed low level characters to equip disproportionately high-level equipment. I suppose that may be true, but generally speaking, this is unlikely to be a new player's character, as it takes considerable time and resources not only to raise the mag, but also to collect that twink gear. The advantage is two-fold: First, this allows lower-level characters to keep up with friends whose characters are higher level, and second, it allows an experienced player to advance through lower levels more quickly, until the Mag, equipment and character levels even out. An experienced player has already been through Normal, Hard and Very Hard. He has made that new character to obtain different drops in Ultimate, and he's not missing anything by rushing through the lower levels on his second, third and fourth runs through.

Half of PSO was social in nature. Mag feeding during downtime gave players something productive to accomplish while standing around and chatting. They also provided another subject to chat about.

It was exciting to see what a Mag would become, and fun to see all of the variations. In this aspect, they also provided a measure of cosmetic character customization. Far beyond that, however, Mags provided a level of non-cosmetic, mechanical customization, that could be tinkered with and replaced as desired. Raising a Mag or even a collection of Mags allowed the player to create a character that was uniquely his own. Your Mags are a vital part of your character's build, and frankly, I thought their execution in the game was splendid.

That Mags were trade-able added a layer to the game's barter-economy. Mag trading was the only facet of the game's barter-economy that wasn't completely trashed by the hacking and duping epidemic, which went on for pretty much of the game's run. Many found the idea of trading weapons and armor to be quite appealing, but frankly, everyone knew that a duped Spread Needle with crazy %'s was basically the only weapon you'd ever need. Mags were a bit more variable though, and had cosmetics to consider in addition to stats. This wasn't a major draw for everyone, but it's well worth pointing out, regardless.

The Photon Blasts were always an exciting thing, especially once we realized that they could be stacked, for three fantastic, murderous attacks and a blast of Shifta & Deband that couldn't be matched by any Force in the game. Perhaps even more helpful in a game which liked to inundate you with status effects and overtly aggressive foes, were the little event-driven specials, which might heal you, revive you, or possibly drop Shifta & Deband on you. The perfect Mag would make you invincible for three events, and resurrect you on your death. Few variations did this, however, and this was yet another bit of give and take to tinker with.

Taking full advantage of a Mag was never a casual player's forté, but a casual player could still benefit from this bit of equipment. I don't know that Mags necessarily need to be in PSO2, but in a very little package, they added a great deal to the game-- especially for those who took the time to really consider them. That said, if Mags will not be in PSO2, then there should at least be some equivalent package for structured, weighs-and-balances interchangeable character customization. I am very, very confident that PSO would have been less of a game without them. Customization is an important factor in this type of game's ability to immerse its player. Mags contributed to this in PSO, and PSO2 needs something of the sort, as well.

I don't know that Mags absolutely need to be implemented in PSO2,

[Revy]

PSO2 needs mags so I can rage to my friends when I accidently feed my mag a Solatomizer instead of a staratomizer

[Cast Soldier]

MAGS
Ok. This is more how I want them to work. They will have 4 stats, you feed them anything to raise these stats. Depending on what you feed them/stat you raise their appearance changes. When the Mag gains PBG at every 25% something happens. At 25% you get a small stat boost or heal, if you die it may revive you(PBG empties). At 50% you get a large stat boost or heal, if you die it may revive you(PBG empties). At 75% you may get revived if you die, but at this point you get the PB(since the Mirage Blast was basically Photon Blast all of these are included). Depending on what you feed it determinds which ones you have. If you die you lose the PB until you build the PBG back up and the PBG won't go up until you use the PB. At 100% you get the small bonuses, you may get revived if you die. At full you get race specific moves
Cast Mags turn into and become their SUV Weapons
Beasts & their Mags fuse to make the Nanoblasts
Humans & their Mags team-up to do unlimited enhanced PAs for a set time
Newmans & their Mags team-up to do unlimited enhanced Techs for a set time

I pit this in another thread, but it would be better here. PSO style Mags with concepts from PSU & PSU partner machinary. So things can be tweaked for balance, but it could work.

[SolRiver]

Let me put mag design into a concept form.

Human are a type of "intelligent hunter" much like many famous carnivorous animal like tiger, wolves etc.

To keep intelligent hunter animal (players) healthy inside a zoo (game) require them to be able to make decisions while living (grinding) there. These decision can be as simple as "let's sit over there instead" to "what in the world is this thing?" to "let's calculate some rocket trajectory for fun". The better zoo can allow these animals to make more decisions during their daily routine, and happier animals live longer and attract more visitors (anyone want to see sad and sick tiger?).

In a sense, just by making us think about a decision in itself is a form of entertainment. I am sure some people require more of this form of entertainment than others, but we all need a basic amount of it. Not many people can do an unrewarding job (give you less room to make money decision), and on top of it being unproductive (no decision making on the job). Having either one is fine (fun job that pay less VS boring ass job that pay well), but having neither is unacceptable.

PSO's mag was one of the game's element to make us feel entertained through decision making. It was also one of the most impacting (equipment type decision). Mags were about the only (meaningful) decision making element that exist in both combat and non-combat zone.

Surely, a game can reach the same function without mag. However, by this point, anyone who played PSO can agree that mag is THE most impacting equipment in the game. Heck, most class can't even use spread needle until lv100+ without a mag. PSO and mag should be mentioned on the same sentence. Last thing I want in PSO2 is to use manastone like aion. If PSO going to be a generic MMo, please at least be generic in PSO way.

To sum up my feeling of mag.
"If mag is around, it better be meaningful; if not, we better get something way better."

An element that replace mag need to have:
-decision making in combat zone
-decision making in non-combat zone
-is an important decision
-visually apparent
-wide range of final forms to choose from
-wide range of ways to raise it (different food)
-good range of ways to reach the same final form
-medium-fast rate of interval between each decision (I say 20 minutes)
-trade-able
-probably more that I failed to mention... (wasted enough time)

So "one single" element that replace mag... will just be a mag 2.0 regardless of what it is called (due to the requirement being so specific). I don't think I have play a single MMO (or even game) with one single element that serve as many function as PSO mag. The closest thing is probably pokemon, but not a single pokemon fit the whole requirement (such as each pokemon has definite final form instead of starting from being the same pokemon).

To break one single element into many different elements will have a result I am incapable of predicting.

[ShinMaruku]

Mags in PSO were awesome. I will be very unhappy if they are done away with. For the people who don't want mags and say it's a waste of time, simply don't fucking use them in the game if they are there.
See if ya never used them you gimped yourself.

I found them a time sink unneeded myself, feeding them for some stat changes was simply a time sink I never cared for. The inviicblity thing while nice was something random. I never like random shit.

[Omega-z]

What if the new mag's(if there called that ) where some type of battle enhancement unit. Say to your character or weapon. There would be parts you could find on your way thru the world to build your unit enhancer, Which you would take to a tinker that would work on your combination of parts while you are hunting or running missions that way you don't have to waiting hand and foot on it. How would it work in Combat, It would use an Energy system like the PB gauge that on the amount of energy you wanted to you use would determined the power or duration of the enhancement. It won't work like adding stats but would be based on your build and how you use the Gauge in combat. It could boost your speed, add extra armor for defense, change your weapon to add new abilities, or add new abilities to your team. They don't have to be game breaking but be able to have little niche's that help game play. The nice thing is you'll be in total control of how you be able to use it based on your skill and no randomness. And you'll be able to build it how you want it with no down time, More time with your friends and your runs. Just a Thought.

[Seasqwaa]

I loved feeding mine. I didn't even care what stats it got.

Therefore, no, I want my mags at all costs.
PSU shattered my dreams with this part.

I never really saw a problem with them in PSO.
Yeah, you'd have some OP low-level characters, but they could never compare to a higher leveled player.
Plus, it feels almost like a reward to those that leveled their first mag.

[Noblewine]

I liked the concept of mags since they used something similiar in PSU but I rather have them. I found them fun to use and the personalities they developed because of how you raised them really made PSZ and PSOBB fun and challenging.

[WiZ1988]

It would be kind of hard to not use them if they affect your character as intricately as they did in PSO, you know. That would sort of be like saying, "Oh hey. Here's some armor and a sword, but you don't have to use them if you don't like them."

But, I'll be damned if all this "WAT YOU DON'T LIKE MAGS OMG YOUR DUMB AND STUFF" hoopla ain't just hilarious.

I did not say that. And yes I know if mags are in the game it would be hard to play without using them. In no way did I say "WAT YOU DON'T LIKE MAGS OMG YOUR DUMB AND STUFF". I will refrain from jokingly saying things in the future, because people like you have to come back with "I'll be damned if all this hoopla ain't just hilarious bullshit. If I pissed anyone off with my comment I apologize. I understand why some people do not want them in the game, and I respect that.

[BIG OLAF]

I did not say that.

Never said you did. Way to overreact.

[yoshiblue]

To me it came off as a calm reply.

[Kent]

So, the basic point of MAGs, as no doubt has been stated (and ignored), is that they allowed some level of character customization on a statistical level. There was also added depth in things like triggered effects (death/10% HP/boss area entrance/full PB meter) and photon blasts and how they're learned, but in the end, it was all about custom-tailoring your character, and raising it just happened to come in a sort of virtua pet sort of setting.

It was a good idea, but it did have some rather obvious problems. For example, the fact that MAGs were tradeable was a huge problem, because it allowed people to raise MAGs for other people with no ill effects, it allowed low-level characters to equip level 200 MAGs and become statistical powerhouses, even to the point of allowing players to equip things they have no business equipping at that level (a Ranger in the 20's, for example, could equip rare guns that are just stupidly-powerful for that level range).

There are a few solutions that could be made to these various problems. For example, MAGs could only be raised to a specific level (based on character level) or equipped by characters of a certain level... But this wouldn't work in a system where there aren't character levels, just type levels as there are in PSO2. A better solution would be to make the statistical benefits scale down to the character's current class level, so as to act as if it were a MAG of an appropriate level for that character's current class.

At the same time, we have the issue of them increasing base statistics, instead of total statistics... Which can be largely side-stepped by the aforementioned scaling. If you want to avoid players utilizing rare weaponry far too early, there are some options such as making MAGs only benefit stat totals, or splitting the benefits between base and total stats (I think a 50% split between base and total benefits could work nicely - it wouldn't allow people to equip things too far ahead of their level, but it'd still give some benefit to it, as well as benefit to their total stats).

On the subject of them being tradable... In the original PSO model of how MAGs work, I really don't think they should be tradable, aside from base-level MAGs that are found in dungeons. If adjustments were made to how stats scale and are applied though, then MAG trading is a bit more appropriate, if only for balance reasons. But considering that MAGs are artificial life-forms and bond with their owners, wouldn't it make sense if at least Synchro (or equivalent "how-much-I-like-my-person" stat) be reset, or even sent into the negatives, after being given away? Considering any emotional attachment it may have had to its original owner, and subsequently being treated as a commodity, I think it'd be more than appropriate.

I wouldn't really be against the whole virtua pet idea if they were to take it further, assuming they did some adjustments to how it works (maybe making it a bit less grindy and such). Might be interesting if it were able to develop personalities that affect its performance in combat for things like photon blasts and triggered effects and the like, based on how its owner behaves during combat, so the MAG itself learns from and develops personality traits based on its owner's actions - things like expanding triggered effects to nearby allies, or changing them to similar-but-different versions of themselves, or perhaps even using this as a basis for more specific effects of photon blasts entirely.

Of course, this is all assuming the implementation of MAGs as they were in PSO remains largely intact.

[NoiseHERO]

I've read none of these walls of texts and I'm still mostly neutral on mags...

But do we even completely know how the class system will work stat before we have to worry about customizing our stats? @_@

Like I said before, I'm still unsure of what we'll even have or need before we can say if MAGs will fit in the game, should be taken out, or HAVE to fit in the game or not. But I think PSO fans are worth more than people not wanting to feed MAGs to Sega...

And they're already confirmed to be in so there's not really an issue to argue about yet... Other than trying to constantly re-inform the non-hardcore classic PSO fans on why you think MAGs are awesome when they'll probably never care...

Of course this thread is already 7 pages so carry on! 8D

[Macman]

All the haters should just buy lv200 mags and make mag farmers rich. :D
Best of both worlds.

[Anon_Fire]

Are you saying that MAGs are useless?

We still don't know what purpose they'll serve in PSO2.

[ShinMaruku]

They might serve none they could be cut. XD

[Kion]

Aren't units going to be stat boosters and Mags are going to become the PM role?

[Omega-z]

The helper part of the game will never be cut at all (ie. mag/PM...etc); it maybe changed and tweaked. That helper part of the game is a root part of the PS series going back to the first game in Classic series. To cut that out is like asking to cut out the fantasy part of it and keeping the sci-fi part of it. Instead of asking to take it out, ask about ways to improve the system then how it was done before.

[RemiusTA]

I was going to read most of these posts only out of my hypocritical tenancy to write them anyway. But i decided it wasn't worth it.

I fail to see how a % increase is in any way better than a flat number.

Especially since it'll create an exponential growth curve, which is virtually impossible to balance properly...

No it isn't.


Anyway, im starting to wonder if all this MAG talk has to do with people actually believing it did something detrimental to the game, or if it's just people who don't want them in strictly because they were in PSO.

I don't see how, in any way possible, MAGs could have been an annoying addition to PSO. It allowed you to increase your stats without even killing anything. The only thing that it required to maintain was Meseta and like a 5-minute cooldown feeding period. The sole reason that MAGs allowed me to pick up a weapon and go "I can get this in a few mag levels" instead of "I can get this in a few hours worth of fucking grinding" puts them on a high tier of things i'd like to return.


It was a feature that let me grow WHILE i grinded, instead of a result OF my grinding. It also gave me cool floating objects on my shoulders that looked like cannons when they were charged up. They also periodically gave me moments of invincibility, and let me buff myself with super buffs if i could get anyone to donate to my PB.




So fuck the haters. Yeah, i said it. If you guys would rather grind for everything you do, i dont know what has come over gamers in 2011.


If you felt the need to sit down in rooms and devote 100% of your time to feed your mag over and over again just because it didn't put a limit on how often you could feed it, then it's YOUR fault you hated the mechanic.

[Macman]

Yeah. Anyone who sat in a room solely to feed their mags and not multitask in window mode of BB or something was doing it WRONG.
Mag feeding is something you do while walking from room to room while fighting enemies.

[Arkios]

I was going to read most of these posts only out of my hypocritical tenancy to write them anyway. But i decided it wasn't worth it.


No it isn't.


Anyway, im starting to wonder if all this MAG talk has to do with people actually believing it did something detrimental to the game, or if it's just people who don't want them in strictly because they were in PSO.

I don't see how, in any way possible, MAGs could have been an annoying addition to PSO. It allowed you to increase your stats without even killing anything. The only thing that it required to maintain was Meseta and like a 5-minute cooldown feeding period. The sole reason that MAGs allowed me to pick up a weapon and go "I can get this in a few mag levels" instead of "I can get this in a few hours worth of fucking grinding" puts them on a high tier of things i'd like to return.


It was a feature that let me grow WHILE i grinded, instead of a result OF my grinding. It also gave me cool floating objects on my shoulders that looked like cannons when they were charged up. They also periodically gave me moments of invincibility, and let me buff myself with super buffs if i could get anyone to donate to my PB.




So fuck the haters. Yeah, i said it. If you guys would rather grind for everything you do, i dont know what has come over gamers in 2011.


If you felt the need to sit down in rooms and devote 100% of your time to feed your mag over and over again just because it didn't put a limit on how often you could feed it, then it's YOUR fault you hated the mechanic.

Quoting this, since it's exactly how I feel.

I just read through this entire tread and have yet to see a reasonable argument AGAINST Mags making a return.

They were awesome in every way. The complaints against buffing "low level" characters with MAGs is also retarded. There is NO reason that a person should have to grind through boring, easy, starting content that they have already cleared... simply because they want to create an alternate character. Lots of other MMOs have features specifically built into the game so that you can EXPEDITE that process.

[NoiseHERO]

I actually DON'T see a problem with the buffing noob characters thing, as long as you raised the mag yourself. It's a good make up or even a reward for starting from scratch after already doing so before. Kind of like Chrono Trigger's "New Game+"

Though I'm sure someone said this in one of those walls of text I didn't read.

[xGenokx]

I like the appeal of the Mags, but I like them more as just a companion (vanity pet) rather than a stat booster or weapon. I personally would like to see Mags make a return in PSO2, but I can definitely still enjoy the game if they end up scrapping them.

[NoiseHERO]

We should be able to breed mags, to unlock more different transformations and combinations then turn them into super mags that grow arms and legs and turn into winged little girl that perform many services while they keep you from harms way.

[Keilyn]

To me when I think of PSO. I think of a character raising a mag and using photon blasts. Mags were a more central concept to the game, but were crude. They definitively became an icon of the game.

Not having mags in PSO-2 to me makes it closer to PSU where you had the partner character doubling as a Room Maid and MeatShield when you get to S3.

In fact, not having MAGS in PSO-2 to me is like not having pioneer 2 in PSO-1. ^_^

[moorebounce]

A radical idea, I'm sure, but hear me out.
Never ever has such a concept ever worked well seamlessly into a game.
Even worse is putting something in just for the sake of it being there that also never works, it just comes off as intrusive. Take for example DOA4 the head guy loves gambling thus he made the game play out like it's gambling (all good and fine but on a competitive game you want something solid and less likely to boil down to luck. People hate when shit is random)

If Sonic Team was not originally looking to put them in and due to fans complaining I think they should ignore that part. There are many other ways to boost stats.


If you guys want mags give a good reason for them to be in rather than "Oh well it was in the original game"
Discussion is good.

You don't have to use Mags if you don't want to. It was that way in PSO. They did other things besides boost stats. I loved them I just didn't like feeding the darn things but I did.

As far as I know it's still Sonic Team but Yuji Naka left to form his own studio named Prope. If he took employees of Sonic Team with him then it's not the same Sonic Team. Whoever made PSU must of gotten fired because PSO2 doesn't look like it was made by the same people who did PSU which is a very good thing.

[NoiseHERO]

I'm guessing It's because Sakai's the boss, now.

He's barely failed us, the overly hated PSU was just a long generation.

[RemiusTA]

all of this is really stupid anyway, because at the very least if you HATED mags in PSO, you never had to touch one.

You could always just trade for one from another player if it bothered you so much.

I really don't see the issue here.




If the "official" Sonic Team was making PSO2, it would be one glaring obvious difference because this game would probably be mother fucking beautiful. Sonic Colors/Generations has a brilliant engine behind it, and on PC im sure they could combine the light rendering techniques from the Hedgehog Engine used in Unleashed to make stages that look even more amazing.

Looking at the PS3 versions of Unleashed and Generations, seeing them take it to the PC would be a beautiful step upwards in terms of visuals.

In terms of gameplay.....well, TBH they seem to have had a shift in how they do things around there. Sonic Colors was one hell of a game, and not too many sonic fans can honestly find an issue with Generations as of yet.

[•Col•]

I actually DON'T see a problem with the buffing noob characters thing, as long as you raised the mag yourself. It's a good make up or even a reward for starting from scratch after already doing so before. Kind of like Chrono Trigger's "New Game+"

Though I'm sure someone said this in one of those walls of text I didn't read.

^Exactly how I feel.

omg u gaiz, this person put a bunch of time to raising a mag and getting super rare items to make his character stronger!!!!!!!

So unfair.

/sarcasm

Not to mention, it only makes their new character super good in Normal/Hard mode. POSSIBLY V.Hard mode as well depending on the weapon.

[Zyrusticae]

I will mention that I have no problem with mags if they improve on them in every way.

A straight port, however, would be a big red flag in my eyes. But thankfully, we already know they're definitely not doing that, so all is well.

[Jinketsu]

Even if they did a straight port, what would the problem be? I always saw MAGs in PSO as an upgradable accessory. The entire game's loot process was about simply finding gear better than what you have (with the exception of a few) and I always found it pretty cool that we could take something we had from Lv1 and upgrade it to best boost the stats we wanted all the way to Lv200.

[Zyrusticae]

The problem is that the process of "raising" a mag is incredibly tedious unless you bypass it by buying someone else's (and, quite frankly, anything you want to SKIP is a bad game mechanic, period).

That, and they account for a huge chunk of stats, and without them you're literally gimped and cannot use a wide range of items for at least several levels (if you can ever use them at all).

Look, I don't like my character being 99% defined by the items on her person. I would much prefer the number be closer to 20-30%. The rest should be character-focused. Skills and abilities add a lot more variety and interest to the gameplay than just more big numbers.

As a matter of opinion, I think the main motivation for bigger, better gear should be appearance, not just stats. If the game switches from a gear focus to a character focus, that should be no problem at all. Particularly if they let you freely switch your specializations around to adapt to different situations - that adds variety and nuance, more than any single piece of equipment ever will.

I will admit that I simply cannot look at things abstractly. When I look at my character and see that the grand majority of her stats come from her items, I see that she is literally defined by her items. And I just don't like that. Folks that are playing the game purely for the minute-to-minute gameplay and the loot obviously aren't going to care about that. As a roleplayer, however, I can't ignore it. So if my character is deprived of her items, or even just her mag, she becomes literally a weakling nobody? Who wants that? What kind of fantasy is that?

[amtalx]

I find it amusing that people are bitching about the tedium of raising a MAG in a game that centers around killing the same enemies thousands of times in hopes that something interesting might drop. I've certainly killed more Boomas in my PS career than times I've had to feed my MAG a mate.

[RemiusTA]

The problem is that the process of "raising" a mag is incredibly tedious unless you bypass it by buying someone else's (and, quite frankly, anything you want to SKIP is a bad game mechanic, period)...

That, and they account for a huge chunk of stats, and without them you're literally gimped and cannot use a wide range of items for at least several levels (if you can ever use them at all).

No, it's just a mechanic you do not care for, like stats on clothing or visual units. And you not liking it doesn't make it bad, at all, in the slightest. (And on that last statement...it's actually quite funny, because MAGs are the only mechanic in the PS series that actually alleviates that problem.)


And for the rest of that, if your character isn't defined by their items, what do you expect them to be defined by? Its far more of a cripple than an asset of design for a game like this to have your characters be able to run around naked, wacking shit and destroying everything. What YOURE going on about is being defined by whatever you think looks cool on your character...which really has far less to do with the game than you're making it seem like it does.



Bottom line, the reliance on gear means you're able to change gear at will, which means changing your stats/strengths/weaknesses/abilities and thus having more possibilities in gameplay. That, and it's pretty much guaranteed. If a Roleplay character can't get over that very simple (and universal) aspect of the world they're Roleplaying in, then.....well, you know. They probably just aren't going to survive very long. It's like the equivalent of you saying "the ability to not be 100% efficient while using nothing but a saber is bad game design". Just because you may really like the weapon class doesn't mean anyone is obligated to sacrifice diverse gameplay because of it.

[kyuuketsuki]

The problem is that the process of "raising" a mag is incredibly tedious unless you bypass it by buying someone else's (and, quite frankly, anything you want to SKIP is a bad game mechanic, period).It's not that bad.

And some people find the whole killing monsters to find better loot thing tedious, and so they just buy or trade for better equipment. Does that make treasure hunting a bad game mechanic?

That, and they account for a huge chunk of stats, and without them you're literally gimped and cannot use a wide range of items for at least several levels (if you can ever use them at all). So?

Look, I don't like my character being 99% defined by the items on her person. I would much prefer the number be closer to 20-30%. The rest should be character-focused. Skills and abilities add a lot more variety and interest to the gameplay than just more big numbers. Putting aside that 99% is an obvious exaggeration, this along your next comment...

As a matter of opinion, I think the main motivation for bigger, better gear should be appearance, not just stats. If the game switches from a gear focus to a character focus, that should be no problem at all. Particularly if they let you freely switch your specializations around to adapt to different situations - that adds variety and nuance, more than any single piece of equipment ever will. ... seems to suggest you want to play a game where the differences between all equipment is just cosmetic and players just switch "specializations" (whatever that means). That's cool, but that's a totally different game and I don't want PSO2 to be that kind of game.

I don't really get the point of even discussing it anyway, because I'm pretty sure PSO2 is not going to do away with stats and/or marginalize weaponns/armor to being cosmetic accessories.

So if my character is deprived of her items, or even just her mag, she becomes literally a weakling nobody? Who wants that? What kind of fantasy is that?
My character isn't able to trash super strong monsters threatening the universe with his/her bare hands while wearing a bikini/banana-hammock, but needs powerful weapons and armor? Nope, doesn't bother me.

[Zyrusticae]

It's not that bad.

And some people find the whole killing monsters to find better loot thing tedious, and so they just buy or trade for better equipment. Does that make treasure hunting a bad game mechanic?
Yes, actually, yes it does.

That's not to say that it can't be improved. Which is the point I was making. They can easily make mag raising something that's actually engaging as opposed to something you just do because you have to.



So?

Stop right there.

Just stop.

If you don't get it, then you won't ever get it. So stop. Forget it. You won't understand, I'm done trying to get you people to understand, and I'm not going to waste my time putting effort into doing so.

Let someone else try to get through your incredibly thick skulls, I have not nearly enough motivation to do so.

[yoshiblue]

This is what I wanted fixed. Sure it makes you feel awesome and clear a room. However, it feels wrong at the same time.

[Cast Soldier]

I was going to read most of these posts only out of my hypocritical tenancy to write them anyway. But i decided it wasn't worth it.


MAGS
Ok. This is more how I want them to work. They will have 4 stats, you feed them anything to raise these stats. Depending on what you feed them/stat you raise their appearance changes. When the Mag gains PBG at every 25% something happens. At 25% you get a small stat boost or heal, if you die it may revive you(PBG empties). At 50% you get a large stat boost or heal, if you die it may revive you(PBG empties). At 75% you may get revived if you die, but at this point you get the PB(since the Mirage Blast was basically Photon Blast all of these are included). Depending on what you feed it determinds which ones you have. If you die you lose the PB until you build the PBG back up and the PBG won't go up until you use the PB. At 100% you get the small bonuses, you may get revived if you die. At full you get race specific moves
Cast Mags turn into and become their SUV Weapons
Beasts(?) & their Mags fuse to make the Nanoblasts
Humans & their Mags team-up to do unlimited enhanced PAs for a set time
Newmans & their Mags team-up to do unlimited enhanced Techs for a set time

I pit this in another thread, but it would be better here. PSO style Mags with concepts from PSU & PSU partner machinary. Some things can be tweaked for balance, but it could work.

I kindly ask that you do so to my post, as most of our views on PSO & PSU are similar. I would like to know what you(or anybody) think.

[Zorafim]

That... That's actually pretty badass. Except replace newmans with beasts you racist, and fuse humans and newmans.

[•Col•]

Just watch Sega remove units all together and replace them with THREE mags.

Then make your character's stats 100% defined by said mags.

The ultimate troll.

[Zorafim]

I... I probably wouldn't mind. Sentient equipment which grows more powerful and more ornate as I raise it sounds pretty awesome. And if their stats are based off of how much money I get off missions (use money to buy items, use items to level mags), then that reduces alot of pain caused by randomness. Not to mention, this forces you to chose between buyable equipment (for any weapons or armor not covered by mags), any cosmetics, and any equipment which levels up with you.

Just... Make them non-tradable, if they're gonna be that big.

[yoshiblue]

Watch them make your stats based around your weapons. What say you?

[Zorafim]

Does the weapon think and act by itself? If so, HELL YEAH!

[RemiusTA]

I kindly ask that you do so to my post, as most of our views on PSO & PSU are similar. I would like to know what you(or anybody) think.

I dont really know about the stat boosts as the PBG rises, but i think added effects as it increases is a good idea. I think your mag evolution should somewhat determine what it's capable of doing to you, too.


I personally want them to just do away with PSU-style SUV attacks. Why? Because Mag Blasts and SUVs are the same thing -- you aren't really distinguishing them any kind of way. The only way i'd want SUVs to return is if they changed function a bit. Like, instead of 100% -> Release in one attack, the PBG could serve as the "fuel" needed for your SUV Weapon. So, instead of the SUV attack being one big retarded move (floating skateboards, giant cannons, ect), it can be a specific weapon or move that you're able to equip and use like a regular weapon (except more powerful of course), while each attack uses up some of the PB gauge.

So for CASTs, Let's say that it takes 20% PBG to summon your equipped SUV Attack. While it's out, each attack takes like, oh say 5%, and each PA takes 10% or so. At 100%, you'd probably have enough for either one or two combos, or a few Photon Art barrages.


Humans and Newmans should function the same way, i think. I think the Mag Blasts should kind of enhance your power, or give you the ability to unleash all their energy at once in a PSO-styled mag blast. Either way i think you should be able to have some choice in what it does.


I liked the idea of 3 Mag Blasts per mag. But instead of one of the attacks wasting 100% of your PBG, i think that once you get to 100%, you're able to go into a mode where you switch between your Mag's learned abilities, and it kind of replaces your Action Pallete for theirs, and each move you use takes up a set % of the PBG until it runs out.


That would be pretty kickass. The different evolutions and feedings (that give you different blasts) would allow you to do different attacks. Like, the Healing Blast can heal everything near you for a small %, while the pillar one would take up like 30% but hit everything near you. Special Evolutions could have attacks that used like 100% for one massive attack too.

[yoshiblue]

Would be useful to just stab and have the sword redirect itself to your foes heart or brain. Or gunblades stabbing then shooting once inside.

Would be cool if mags created force fields for a period of time. Nulls all damage. Stationary or portable your call.

[Macman]

Just stop.

If you don't get it, then you won't ever get it. So stop. Forget it. You won't understand, I'm done trying to get you people to understand, and I'm not going to waste my time putting effort into doing so.

Let someone else try to get through your incredibly thick skulls, I have not nearly enough motivation to do so.Take your own advice and just stop. Buy a mag for a few PDs if you're gonna get your panties in that big of a bunch over it, or play more PSU. I'm sure the partner machines are a much better mechanic by your standards.

[NoiseHERO]

Take your own advice and just stop. Buy a mag for a few PDs if you're gonna get your panties in that big of a bunch over it, or play more PSU. I'm sure the partner machines are a much better mechanic by your standards.

Man, I bet some PSOs fans/PSOpurists are just DYINNNGGGG to be able to say "Go back to PSU"
reasons including them getting told that for the past 5-6 years and this "true sequel to PSO" obsession...

[RemiusTA]

Stop right there.

Just stop.

If you don't get it, then you won't ever get it. So stop. Forget it. You won't understand, I'm done trying to get you people to understand, and I'm not going to waste my time putting effort into doing so.

Let someone else try to get through your incredibly thick skulls, I have not nearly enough motivation to do so.

Man, do you even realize how delusional you sound? Anyone who doesn't agree with you has a thick skull now? And then you result to insulting them for it?


....Maybe i shouldn't point it out, though. Fuck.


Olaf, ready my lightsaber!

[Zorafim]

Oh man, the dissapointment that will about from assuming this is a true sequal to PSO...

[ShinMaruku]

Oh man, the dissapointment that will about from assuming this is a true sequal to PSO...
Indeed.

[yoshiblue]

Welcome to Reach.

[RemiusTA]

Remember Reach.
fixed

[Zorafim]

Welcome to die?

[NoiseHERO]

Welcome to die?

It's sad that I didn't know about this till AFTER MVC3...

Yet I heard it from it's original source first...

[Zyrusticae]

Man, do you even realize how delusional you sound? Anyone who doesn't agree with you has a thick skull now? And then you result to insulting them for it?
HAHA.

Seriously, it doesn't even matter if anyone agrees. What matters is whether or not they understand.

And at this point I doubt I can get anywhere near a decent level of understanding from the people on this forum.



....Maybe i shouldn't point it out, though. Fuck.

No, actually, you should.

You should also pay attention to your own mistakes.

Like the aforementioned assumption that I care about people agreeing with me. (An ironically perfect example of why I am referring to you, collectively, as thick.)

Again, it's not about agreement. It's about understanding. But of course, even that is too much to ask from anyone here...

[Anon_Fire]

Looks like this is something nobody can agree or disagree upon. I suggest we WAIT for more information come up.

[Zarode]

I missed having MAGs in PSU. Not for the stats, even though it was an awesome way to help out a new character get to a higher level faster, but for the looks.

Yup, I said it. I liked MAGs because they tended to look good. They fit the era. The way our damn cellphones are going, I wouldn't be surprised if I was sitting in my deathbed with my great-grand-kids and their floating pet cellphones.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind them back if they were just aesthetics.

[Cast Soldier]

That... That's actually pretty badass. Except replace newmans with beasts you racist, and fuse humans and newmans.

Wait What How??? I think the Humans & Newmans needed different things.


I dont really know about the stat boosts as the PBG rises, but i think added effects as it increases is a good idea. I think your mag evolution should somewhat determine what it's capable of doing to you, too.


I personally want them to just do away with PSU-style SUV attacks. Why? Because Mag Blasts and SUVs are the same thing -- you aren't really distinguishing them any kind of way. The only way i'd want SUVs to return is if they changed function a bit. Like, instead of 100% -> Release in one attack, the PBG could serve as the "fuel" needed for your SUV Weapon. So, instead of the SUV attack being one big retarded move (floating skateboards, giant cannons, ect), it can be a specific weapon or move that you're able to equip and use like a regular weapon (except more powerful of course), while each attack uses up some of the PB gauge.

So for CASTs, Let's say that it takes 20% PBG to summon your equipped SUV Attack. While it's out, each attack takes like, oh say 5%, and each PA takes 10% or so. At 100%, you'd probably have enough for either one or two combos, or a few Photon Art barrages.


Humans and Newmans should function the same way, i think. I think the Mag Blasts should kind of enhance your power, or give you the ability to unleash all their energy at once in a PSO-styled mag blast. Either way i think you should be able to have some choice in what it does.


I liked the idea of 3 Mag Blasts per mag. But instead of one of the attacks wasting 100% of your PBG, i think that once you get to 100%, you're able to go into a mode where you switch between your Mag's learned abilities, and it kind of replaces your Action Pallete for theirs, and each move you use takes up a set % of the PBG until it runs out.


That would be pretty kickass. The different evolutions and feedings (that give you different blasts) would allow you to do different attacks. Like, the Healing Blast can heal everything near you for a small %, while the pillar one would take up like 30% but hit everything near you. Special Evolutions could have attacks that used like 100% for one massive attack too.

The stat boost is just S/D. It could be at 50% the Photon Blast and 100% the Charater specfic ability. I thought the Mirage Blast = Photon Blast than SUV(Mirage Blast just didn't have the cinematic animations).

The three 3 mag blast is the same Photon Blast idea from PSO. So you get those Photon Blast & Mirage Blast. If you feed it mostly fire items you get the fire Mirage, if you feed it hunter items you learn Hunter PBs, and so on. So you could have 1 hunter PB, 1 ranger PB, and 1 element MB, depending on how you feed it(the PSU feeding style).

Modes and Action pallette change that works. Beasts when they fuse with their Mags for the Nanoblasts they get another move set(like feral punch, power claw swipe, and the like. When Humans team up with their Mags, the move set changes to enhanced PAs. For Newmans the move set is enhanced Techs(the hamans and Newmans having the same thing in PSU was..... SUVs & Nanoblasts the only thing that seperated the races. I don,t know about you but every character I played(my Cast & family and friends characters) felt like I was still playing Ethan Waber). Cast could get SUV mode. The would carry the SUV weapon for a set amount of time. Instead of having a Sword that swings horizontal and another vertical, those could be the moves of using the Sword SUV. The Machine gun SUV moves would be the concentrated shot and the sweeping shot, and so on. The SUV weapons could be weakened far added like pushback, and other such effects.

The 4 stats would affect the Character abliity. For Beasts Nanoblast ATA = hulky beast, ACC = speedy beast, DEF = def beast(defence greatly enhanced instead of invincibility) MST = the black beast(it doesn't attack teammates but when it swings shockwaves also hit the enemy). Cast SUVs ATA = melee SUVs(like sword, fists, hammer), ACC = range SUVs(like machine gun, laser, flamethrower), DEF = the healing & stat boosting wings, MST = random effect SUV & Viviene(spelling) punisher. It would swich randomly in each stat(in ATA you would randomly get one ot the three, after you brought the Mag SUV upgrades. Newmans enhanced Techs ATA = techs more damage, ACC techs get homing properties, DEF support techs would be more affected, MST = techs give more status ailments. Humans enhanced PAs ATA = effects like pushback or more damage, ACC = more hits or better criticals, DEF = shield PAs would be enhanced or a Counter PA would activate when hit MST = each hit would have the added effect of the element the enemy is weak against.

It would give character unique differences while making them also quite customizable. Even if it is rather ambitious.

[amtalx]

And at this point I doubt I can get anywhere near a decent level of understanding from the people on this forum.
Leave? I don't understand why you would continue to press your perspective with people that you will likely never see eye to eye with. I would call that thick.

[Jinketsu]

I don't understand how he thinks we don't understand. Is it because we don't agree?

Seriously, I'm sure we all understand what you're trying to say. The majority of us enjoy the idea of MAGs and can only wonder what's in store to expand on the system. Just because you thought it was bullshit to have to raise one or otherwise buy one doesn't make your biased prick attitude the correct one. Learn how to accept the fact that everyone can have their own opinion, and maybe we'd be more accepting of yours.

Sheesh.

[yoshiblue]

He gets into alot of squabbles with the others. Thats why he says what he says. Mostly one man armyish moments. Olaf and Remius had their moments too.

[Zyrusticae]

Leave? I don't understand why you would continue to press your perspective with people that you will likely never see eye to eye with. I would call that thick.
You are absolutely correct.

I still don't understand it myself. Why do I even bother? I don't know! I just do.

I'm probably just masochistic and don't even know it.


I don't understand how he thinks we don't understand. Is it because we don't agree?

Seriously, I'm sure we all understand what you're trying to say. The majority of us enjoy the idea of MAGs and can only wonder what's in store to expand on the system. Just because you thought it was bullshit to have to raise one or otherwise buy one doesn't make your biased prick attitude the correct one. Learn how to accept the fact that everyone can have their own opinion, and maybe we'd be more accepting of yours.

Sheesh.
Nonsense.

I just state my opinion. When I do, someone challenges it by saying "SO WHAT?"

Think about that for a second. That denotes not only a lack of understanding, it denotes an unwillingness to understand, not to mention a complete and utter lack of respect for the position I hold.

I am perfectly capable of accepting different opinions. The difference is, the way a lot of people on this forum communicate is incredibly confrontational even when all I'm doing is stating my opinion and trying to defend it.

It's basically impossible to improve in this kind of environment. All I ever do is get more angry because people keep goading me. How is that in any way helpful?

[Zorafim]

Wait What How??? I think the Humans & Newmans needed different things.

So because they gotta be different, you automatically assume newmans gotta have better techs? What about those hunter and ranger newmans, they gotta feed their kids too! Not all newmans get into force school, and hang with the force kids, and grow up being all force like!


I still don't understand it myself. Why do I even bother? I don't know! I just do.

It's simple. Arguing provides an incredibly amount of mental stimulous, more than most other tasks involving the brain. You enjoy using your brain in such a way, so you continue.
If not that, you simply enjoy clarifying your oppinion in such a way that other people understand it. You want to get your oppinion out there, and you want it to be clear.
A third, and dubious, option is that your ego simply won't accept the fact that either someone dissagrees with you (doubtful, but possible), or that someone does not understand you. And you want to fix it.


Also, this thread needs more ponies. Why were my ponies modded out?

[RemiusTA]

I don't understand how he thinks we don't understand. Is it because we don't agree?


Yeah, it is.

Whenever he learns that the two have no correlation, he'll probably be a much happier guy. Until then, he's just going to insult everyone who doesn't praise him for his ideas and agree that everything he says is 100% "logic" and "fact".

And uh, people keep goading you for a reason. You maybe want to step back a bit. Whenever the primary conclusion to all your arguments is "you'll never understand" or "you're thick and illogical" (gotta love that word), then it's probably time to reevaluate yourself. Because something is wrong.

I wouldn't take that as an insult if I were you, because you do it all the time.

[ShinMaruku]

I think there is something more than that. You guys need to find another game before this one comes out. You are going mad.
And Indeed drop ze mags you can get those stat bonuses in other ways. I don't put much stock in things being rng. They make me rage.

[Shakuri]

People dunno how to agree to disagree, I guess. Personally, I don't want Stat Mags back, but wouldn't really care if they made a return either. Times have changed, it was a nifty way to customize your character back then (Both statistically and aesthetically), when everything was pretty much pre-determined for your character. Now we have actual customization.

Of course, as I said, I wouldn't really care either way, because if they did make a return, I'd be using them no matter how much I did or didn't like them. :roll:

[Zorafim]

More customization is better customization. Unless the choices in customization aren't actually choices (choosing between +5 attack power and a kitten sword, for instance), I love the option to choose things based on my preference, even if I get overwhelmed. If they add mags, in addition to visual units, weapons, and model customization, well... That's just even better, right?

[Zarode]

Well, you'd be able to get a better theme out of your character, if you were going for that.


Hint hint.

[ShadowDragon28]

Some of the posts in this thread are face palm worthy, and kind of depressing.

[Mitz]

I don't get it, how do mags boil down to luck? It's an amazing way to customize your gear setup.

[Zorafim]

Some of the posts in this thread are face palm worthy, and kind of depressing.

I hate when people say things like this. You basically said "I disagree with something that was said in this thread". That's so incredibly vague, I got almost no information out of it. How are people supposed to respond to this? They can't agree, or disagree, because there's nothing to agree or disagree with! How is this supposed to further the conversation!

[yoshiblue]

You got to look at the clues. He's a PSO vet so the facepalming is most likely aimed at those who reject the idea of mags or something like how they tie in with you(the players that is).

[Zorafim]

No. If he isn't going to spend time to clarify his thought, I'm not going to spend time trying to read into it.

[yoshiblue]

Yeah your right but I just looked at his title heh heh.

[BIG OLAF]

No. If he isn't going to spend time to clarify his thought, I'm not going to spend time trying to read into it.

It was just a way to try and put himself on a little pedestal using one simple sentence (which is to say, minimal effort) with a quick "Not that I'm going to share my views, but some people in here are quite stupid!"

Hopefully SEGA makes it to where a Mag shares the color of it's owners clothes. I only really played CASTs in PSOBB, and it was stupid having a red CAST and a cream-colored Mag. I wished it would have matched. I don't know if they were handled differently on fleshie characters.

[Tetsaru]

Hopefully SEGA makes it to where a Mag shares the color of it's owners clothes. I only really played CASTs in PSOBB, and it was stupid having a red CAST and a cream-colored Mag. I wished it would have matched. I don't know if they were handled differently on fleshie characters.

I think some of the MAG's were only available in one color scheme, but some of them like the Sato (I think) would match the color of your Section ID upon creation.

But yeah, I would love to see MAG's have the same level of customization as characters do. Not only could you tailor its stats to match your playing style, but everyone could have something different.

[Jinketsu]

lot[/i] of people on this forum communicate is incredibly confrontational even when all I'm doing is stating my opinion and trying to defend it.

It's basically impossible to improve in this kind of environment. All I ever do is get more angry because people keep goading me. How is that in any way helpful?

So far in this thread the majority of us have disagreed, stated our opinions, and explained our reasoning - and you still haven't respected a single one of us on the matter. I can see not appreciating the few people who respond with a "NO U" attitude, but that's no reason to disrespect the rest of us who're trying to at least have a somewhat intelligent debate. The problem you have with this forum is with yourself.

How incredibly derailed this thread has become :D

[RemiusTA]

Hopefully SEGA makes it to where a Mag shares the color of it's owners clothes. I only really played CASTs in PSOBB, and it was stupid having a red CAST and a cream-colored Mag. I wished it would have matched. I don't know if they were handled differently on fleshie characters.

I thought PSO had all mags default to your clothing? But yeah, some evolutions had limited color schemes. It probably can't be avoided, unless they map the colors on the mag the same way they do your clothing.

[yoshiblue]

Nope, I had a red mag with blue color doods and a gray(?) one with my green and orange suit HUmar.

[kyuuketsuki]

Hopefully SEGA makes it to where a Mag shares the color of it's owners clothes. I only really played CASTs in PSOBB, and it was stupid having a red CAST and a cream-colored Mag. I wished it would have matched. I don't know if they were handled differently on fleshie characters.
*ahem*

Please reference this PSO-W article. (http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=1017)

I'm not 100% if that still applied in BB, but I do remember my MAGs generally matching the color theme of the outfit, except for the "extra" outfits where the MAG color was random.

[ShinMaruku]

My mag was always a wierd ass colour.

[kyuuketsuki]

My mag was always a wierd ass colour.Did you always pick an "extra" outfit? Those would be the ones at the end of the rows where the little thingie had no color.

[Zorafim]

The base mag was the same color as the color you chose your character to be. However, if you chose a non-colored costume (the last two costumes of any set of colors), then the color was random. Also, as the mag evolves, only specific parts of the mag would be that color, while the rest was a default color for that model.
For instance, I had a mag which looked like a metal cape, which was white and blue. The mag's default color would only appear on its underside, which glowed that color.

[BIG OLAF]

The base mag was the same color as the color you chose your character to be. However, if you chose a non-colored costume (the last two costumes of any set of colors), then the color was random. Also, as the mag evolves, only specific parts of the mag would be that color, while the rest was a default color for that model.

Well, hopefully you'll be able to just go into the makeover and/or clothing shop and just deck out your Mag in whatever color you want it to be. I'd like that more than just "it magically adheres to your outfit color or section ID!", because sometimes you want something a bit different.

[RenzokukenZ]

*ahem*

Please reference this PSO-W article. (http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=1017)

I'm not 100% if that still applied in BB, but I do remember my MAGs generally matching the color theme of the outfit, except for the "extra" outfits where the MAG color was random.

He meant the entire color scheme, particularly on the more advanced evolutions.

Personally, I would like Mags to be more than just stat sticks, and would like for them to help you out on the offensive, similar to the R/T Mags in PSU.

Or go a step further and allow them to utilize certain attacks depending the character's class, such as Ranger Mags turning into a sentry for double fire, Hunter Mags morphing into a floating shield to offer damage reduction/invincibility, and Force Mags acting as an amplifier to allow doublecasting.

[amtalx]

If I ever wanted a specific color, I would just create a new Lv. 1 character of the class/color combination that I needed, then give them the mag for feeding.

[Enforcer MKV]

Well, I want them to transform into wings like some of the ones from PSZ. Those were cool. I really liked those.

Not all of them should become wings, obviously, but have more than.....what was it, the 3 that were in PSZ??

[Budzpip]

I think mags kept me involved with the game. Some people love to hunt rares and whatnot, I love having a cute little mag pal. All the time I would concentrate on finding mag foods, and it kept me occupied...for years XD

[ShadowDragon28]

I was merely expressing that the back and forth argument diatribes are IMO, depressing and is kind of disappointing the long winded reasons why Mags are somehow "unimportant", or "omg it allowz u to cheats" etc ect just kinda boggle my mind just a bit.
It's like reading a diatribe or arguments on why Final Fantasy shouldn't have Magic, Chocobos, or Summon Monsters (eidolons/espers/guardians forces, whatever name Squenix names them)... Yeah sure no mags, um then why the feck call it PSO 2? Just to pull in old PSO fans, but exclude haveing some king of MAGs similar to the ones in PSO? Without Mags, this game would kind of be "PSU 2". What would Final Fantasy be without Magic, Chocobos and no "Eidolons"? Would it even be a true Final Fantasy game any more?
Let's say they cut out Techs, and replace them with only "Element shooting Devices" yeah!, then lets replace Swords with Telekenetic Powers and make all the Arcs/Hunters be Assasin-Ninjas! *sarcasm*
Mags are a part of PSO, if PSO 2 is supposed to be a successor to it, it should have Mags IMO.
I'm not saying "Mags r teh awesome! thiz gaem sux if it haz no Mags!!!"

I don't wish to fucking argue with anyone over the finer points of the pros and cons of Mags or what not, but can people not verbally criticise every damn thing someone says? I guess not it seems. I see no point in all the damn arguing going on in ALL these threads.
Its a fucking videogame, either you play it or don't, or play it and find it fun or one plays it and doesn't find it fun, that's it, that simple. Why the frak does nearly every damn thread have to turn into a debate? Sorry I don't see the damn point to it all.

I feel no need to argue or "contribute to the conversation" when I know certain members here are not going to accept my POV, or even try to see things from my point of view, or show even a slight bit of respect for my opinion at all. I read all these arguement posts, so I just not going to fucking bother with arguing with those members, it just seems pointless.

FYI
I never said or implied that other people can't have differing opinions, and never was it my intention to put myself on any kind of pedastal.
My title "Ps Vet since 1987" is refering to the original Phantasy Star games you know Ps I, Ps II, Ps III, Ps IV. It's nothing important, just an indication that im a looong time fan of the original Phantasy Star series (not just PSO).

I *have* played PSO since 2000 though. But since it seems no one here seems to respect the opinions of PSO players that have put 5 1/2 yrs of playing PSO across all it's versions up to PSOBB and played PSU for 2 1/2 yrs before getting fed up with it, I guess all that dont mean shit here.
It's so easy to just dismiss someone as " PSO purist" or "fanboy" since ad hominum slanders seem to be easy to come by here.
I should of known I would just get verbally dismissed for expressing myself. So sorry I didn't join in this oh so important debate.

here's the tl:dr verison.
I don't care to argue, I'm nobody and am not placing myself on a pedastal;
well excuuuuuse me for fucking saying any damn thing.

[Felicia Wildstream]

For me the MAGs in the GC games were okay... and I hope they will keep up the level-up system in PSO2. Of course it took it's own time until you knew what you need to give your MAG so it "evolves" to the next stage, and of course they make you nearly run out of money, but they had their good sides. Actually they boosted the Stats of the characters nicely and I was always okay with them even if I sometimes was near to kill my first MAG because it never evolved to what I wanted it to! Thanks to my best friend I (finally!!) was able to understand how a MAG evolves, and it just depends on the things I feed him with. Haha, I'm very lame at understanding such things! =D

I wouldn't mind a system like that at all, I would also be okay with it if they would change a few things. But like everybody else here, we don't know how the MAGs will look in the game and if they really will appear in it. Just because it's Phantasy Star it doesn't mean that MAGs need to be around in every game. Of course I would appreciate it when they will be available, but then I'm more curious about how they will look like, how the evolutions will be and which items we need to feed them to boost their stats so they change the appearance.

If they intend to not put the MAGs to the final version of PSO2 it's also fine, as far as I remember there were special materials that also boosted your stats. You know, like HP Material etc... If they would let items like that appear very often I would be okay that the MAGs won't be available.

[yoshiblue]

Hey man, i'm sorry if I insulted you. I was just trying to grasp were you were coming from.

[ShadowDragon28]

I was mainly addressing the comments made by Big Olaf and Zorafim.

[Budzpip]

Why the frak

Battlestar
Win

[lostinseganet]

Mags are the proper condiment for Phantasy Star...Partner machines was a good idea, but they need to transform like beast did from cute little monsters to instruments of destruction!!! I imagine a 12 player game were each player has access to transforming mags...joy♫

[Zorafim]

I was merely expressing that the back and forth argument diatribes are IMO, depressing and is kind of disappointing the long winded reasons why Mags are somehow "unimportant", or "omg it allowz u to cheats" etc ect just kinda boggle my mind just a bit.

There, much better. Now I got some information out of you, and can move this topic along.



Yeah sure no mags, um then why the feck call it PSO 2? ... Mags are a part of PSO, if PSO 2 is supposed to be a successor to it, it should have Mags IMO.

A missing element from a previous game doesn't necesarily break the current game. Again taking Final Fantasy, what about the job system? Future games aren't made worse by its exclusion, since jobs simply don't belong.
Now mind, I'm of the opinion that an online game should have everything its offline counterpart has and more, so I'm all for adding stuff from previous games so long as it doesn't break balance. And we can't really talk about balance without using numbers that we just don't have. So it all boils down to, really, "does it help keep the atmosphere of the game"? And, well, doesn't it?


but can people not verbally criticise every damn thing someone says? ... I feel no need to argue or "contribute to the conversation" when I know certain members here are not going to accept my POV, or even try to see things from my point of view, or show even a slight bit of respect for my opinion at all.

This is an age old problem with arguments. The point of an argument is to take the idea which someone has said and work with only that. The person who said it doesn't matter, the point that they're trying to make doesn't matter, their state of mind doesn't matter, only the argument matters. Done well, an arugment can become a powerful tool to reach a decisive conclusion. But if one isn't careful, it devolves to a fight of insults, leading down to, what was it... Godwin's law? The further an arugment goes, the closer the probability reaches 1(00%) that someone will be compared to Hitler. The only thing one can do is simply not resort to those tactics, and hope nobody else does either. And quite frankly, that's really tough to do on an online forum.



Why the frak does nearly every damn thread have to turn into a debate? Sorry I don't see the damn point to it all.

Because there's nothing on the subject of PSO2 at all. Barely any information, no gameplay discussions, no outfit showcases... All we can do is digest every bit of information until nothing is left. And I am constantly saying that the best way to do this is through civil arguments. And if you don't enjoy these, well, what's the point of being here? One visit through lurking will give you all the information you're going to get. For anyone who wants more than just that, all they have is to digest the information.



My title "Ps Vet since 1987" is refering to the original Phantasy Star games you know Ps I, Ps II, Ps III, Ps IV. It's nothing important, just an indication that im a looong time fan of the original Phantasy Star series (not just PSO).

I'm kinda changing the subject here, but I also constantly say that I respect people who know the series from its roots. It's nice to have conversations with someone who knows how far back each feature and story element goes. And it's especially nice when people don't just think of newmans as space elves.

[BIG OLAF]

here's the tl:dr verison.
I don't care to argue, I'm nobody and am not placing myself on a pedastal;
well excuuuuuse me for fucking saying any damn thing.

Well, I suppose you could have worded your initial thought better, then. It certainly seemed as though you were looking down upon some/everyone else in the thread with your previous statement. Next time, elaborate your ideas instead of indirectly stating "Your views are stupid", which, ironically, is the very thing you were afraid was going to happen to you by elaborating in the first place.

EDIT: And, no, I don't feel that just because someone's played Phantasy Star games since their debut in 1987, and are considered a Phantasy Star "veteran", that they deserve more "respect." Video games aren't the army.

Anyway, moving on..

[Zorafim]

Erm, yes, that. The whole "devolving to insults" thing can happen because of both lack of information to work with, and hostile attitudes. And well... Your post did have little information, and a rather hostile wording. It's not much of a surprise if you're attacked after that.

[yoshiblue]

Meh, I think its the other way around Olaf. Dood has played about every Phantasy Star for a good while. Dood has my respect. I would wear that title with pride here.

[ShadowDragon28]

Me saying something abstract to express that I finds some of the posts in a thread are disappointing and kind of depressing was not meant to be hostile. The "face palm worthy" aspect is that I feel the bickering and long winded arguement in general I think is stupid, I wasn't expressing that differing opinion are "stupid" and neither was I implying any particular persons "views are stupid".

I don't speak in in wholely literal absolute terms, I sometimes speak in abstracts, metaphors, and relative terms. Unfortunately it seems like it's easy to misunderstand and take things the wrong way and read into things that were never meant.

Please don't read into things I never specifically stated or said outright. If I actually think "this person's post is stupid, and what they think is stupid and invalid" Then I will say that, but I did not say that.

[BIG OLAF]

Meh, I think its the other way around Olaf. Dood has played about every Phantasy Star for a good while. Dood has my respect. I would wear that title with pride here.

I've played just about every Phantasy Star game to date, as well. A year or so after I started playing PSU in 2006, I went back and played through PSO. Then, when the Sonic UGC came out for the Xbox 360, I bought that and played through PSI-IV, too. I also own PSP1, PSP2, and PSZ. Does that mean I "deserve" respect? I certainly don't think so.

[yoshiblue]

Well the whole issue is that everyone should respect each other. So in the end I respect everyone. Even you.

[ShadowDragon28]

FYI.
I played the original Phantasy Star when it first came out. and it took me 3 month it finish and maping out each floor of each dungeon and it took several attempts to kill Dark Falz.
I rented played the japanese Phantasy Star III when it first came out in Japan, that was available at a local Japanese videogame shop. I completed 3 generations and watched three of the endings of the game while fighting off a bad stomach flu and 102o temperature.

I mowed lawns every two weeks for months to save up $95 to buy Ps IV from a game shop that sold Japanese games. Played it and completed it in a month and actually understood the story cause I have a rough working knowledge of Japanese since 1986 when I started to teach myself how to read manga like Ranma 1/2 and Dragon Ball back when they were still in Japanese and not even published in english.
Yeah NONE of that deserves any fucking respect sure.
Yep none of that means nothing. Sure. Like the dude says, that's just like your opinion, man.

[Zorafim]

I think of it more as "doing your research" than "welcome home hero". A person who's gone through all the games sees the current game in a different light than a person who just jumped in. So because of that, it's more fun to converse with them.

And Shady (mind if I call you Shady?), you got what I was saying. Along with that, most of human comunication comes from seeing the other person's body language, and hearing the inflection of their voice. Using just words, it gets difficult to understand someone completely. So of course, miscomunications are common.

[BIG OLAF]

Yeah NONE of that deserves any fucking respect sure.
Yep none of that means nothing. Sure. Like the dude says, that's just like your opinion, man.

To me, it does not.

I respect someone based on their character and personality. Trivial things someone has done, like mowing lawns to afford a video game, are meaningless to me.

I still don't know why we're going on about this. It's quite silly.

[ShadowDragon28]

Yeah earning things by determination and working hard for them deserves no respect? Wow. That makes no sense. whatever.
Sorry, but one can't truely know a person's real character and personality over the Internet.

A person can act smart and witty on the internet and claim their a hot 25 yr old girl, but in real life could really be some anti-social, life hating 12 yr old boy.

[Orange_Coconut]

This seems to be a pretty important topic for people. I recall responding to a similar conversation much closer to when this PSO2 section of the forums was created. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it now as I did back when I first made remarks on the subject.

I do personally like MAGs and I liked the variation in evolution, though I definitely felt that the system could be improved by taking away reliance on Section IDs and race/class types in terms of evolution branches. While I personally would like to see MAGs again, I don't think they'd necessarily have to be the exact same for me to be happy. In fact, I think they should do more with them so that people can enjoy activities outside of the primary activity of any MMO (leveling, hitting max level, grinding for gear to max out potential, and arguably meeting people to develop bonds with through the game's community).

What would I like to see? Well I personally would like to have something that allows for expression of any individual, which is why I liked the variety of MAGs and colors and Photon Blast setups. However, I still like the idea of a Chao Garden kind of idea with MAGs. If I remember correctly, there was a quest early on in the PSO storyline (feel free to correct me if my memory is failing me here) where you talk with Eleanor about emotions and MAGs.

It would be great to take them away from "usable objects" and putting them into more of something like a pet role, where they improve on their abilities and you can help their development by giving them certain items and whatever else (which is how they worked in PSO). However, I think that taking another perspective on how they work would be interesting, like if they were treated more like companions than stat-grinding add-on equipment. In fact, if their stats are to increase I would like to put them to use in races, mental capacity challenges, etc for the MAGs themselves as an entirely optional portion of the game. The rewards for doing these challenges would probably be MAG cells and things that affect appearance of the MAG itself. If you have rewards like weapons and armors then you interfere with people who are actually playing the game where that stuff matters to get that kind of gear, which I believe would be a poor way of handling it.

I think it would be nice to be able to incorporate the MAG in the different levels of the game, but more as a means of expression rather than addition to stats -- meaning that the stats the MAG gets are no longer applied to your character. What might be nice is having different randomized potential events involving the MAG in solo missions where it might be able to find scraps or things that would be usable later. What I mean by this is, perhaps there are patterns for designing a certain kind of MAG cell or items that would increase certain stats in a MAG that would not be obtainable without the MAG having found it in the field. Again, I think it'd be important to restrict what capabilities the MAG has for item hunting to items that only affect MAGs.

Now, these are all just ideas and I pretty much know I won't be seeing them in PSO2. That being said, I still think it would be interesting and these ideas are just some of the ways I'd be okay with MAGs coming back in PSO2. Like I said, they shouldn't be the exact same from how they were in the past games, but I bet there are many other ways that the programmers could change the MAGs as opposed to eliminating them altogether.

[RemiusTA]

oh....man....

[Orange_Coconut]

Haha, I don't know if that was a response to my idea but I could totally see that as being a reaction!

It was just an idea, it's not necessarily the thing I believe they should do with MAGs. I just don't have the answers for people who don't want them to boost stats because I couldn't really theorize how to best utilize MAG growth and pair it up with proper stat growth on characters.

Threads like these should be filled with ideas! No matter how odd they seem. (OC, I'm looking at you XD)

[Selphea]

I want gundam-sized Mags, and when the Dragon shows up I want to be able to summon and combine them to become Mega Ultramags that fire giant beams of death while the characters make kung fu poses and yell "ZENRYOKU ZENKAI!"

[RemiusTA]

Haha, I don't know if that was a response to my idea but I could totally see that as being a reaction!

It was just an idea, it's not necessarily the thing I believe they should do with MAGs. I just don't have the answers for people who don't want them to boost stats because I couldn't really theorize how to best utilize MAG growth and pair it up with proper stat growth on characters.

Threads like these should be filled with ideas! No matter how odd they seem. (OC, I'm looking at you XD)

No, definitely wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at the argument over whether or not playing all the older games was a respect-worthy feat or not.

[yoshiblue]

Back when they deemed mario bros2 unworthy for america cus is was said to be too hard?

I want my mag to perform a orbital strike!

[ShadowDragon28]

lol. Um no Selphia, this is PSO 2 not Power Rangers. Funny, but no...
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Remius,
I wasnt fucking implying that playing the original Ps games was "worthy of respect" in of itself. But that one's determination, hard work, and overall experience in whatever one has extensive experience in *is* IMO worthy of respect. Again. Please don't assume something I didn't specifically say or write.

.................................................. ..............................................

I like the Mag "Chao Garden" idea, but I think the mags stats should still help boost a characters stats.

But IMO maybe they could add a restriction to evovled mags. Like maybe don't allow Level 100 and above Mags to be traded to other players, or maybe have a restriction that level 100-200 evolved mags traded to another player character doesn't boost stats, or only boost stats by a quater of what they normally do. (This should not apply to equiping an evolved mag to another of one's own characters. )

I do agree that mags should be a bit more customizable, at least have the ability to alter a mag's colors. because If your color sceme is Black with blue trim, and your mag is is a cool design but bright white and pink, it kind of doesn't match. So at least for aesthetics, i hope for somekind of color customization for Mags would be nice.

[NoiseHERO]

I'm not gonna lie...

Console feels WAY better than emulator, the only thing I can't say so for is super nintendo because I grew up with all of my cousins and siblings only having sega genesis...

I did grow up with nes, however... I prefer it on handheld devices...

Also shadow don't make me smack you in the mouth, phantasy star IS power rangers...

/stares @ all of PSU's weapons...

[ShadowDragon28]

This thread is about Mags in PSO 2, not about some of PSU's goofy looking weapons, or Phantasy Star, which is nothing like Power Rangers:

http://www.efkm.com/dezoris/ps_mad1.gif
This is Phantasy Star. It looks nothing like is nothing like Power Rangers.

I've see no super tall robots made up of 5 vehicles/robot animals/creatueres piloted by 5 people in tights fighting rubbery monsters anywhere in PSO 2 either.

[NoiseHERO]

We have everything but the 5 colored vehicles, let's add em now, we're gonna add them now, let's add them now.

By the way if my joke is already at the edge of bringing this thread off-topic that means things weren't getting anywhere...

[ShadowDragon28]

um no. I don't think PSO2 is going the goofy anime or Power Ranger route. The game is looking to have more in common with the original PSO, thematically, design and aesthetics wise...

I've seen no super tall giant robots, and no rubbery monsters, and no character in tight spandex body suits either.

[NoiseHERO]

Cast and weapons already look it past the deceptacon armor. This isn't exactly that dreamcast game with default outfits anymore.

In all seriousness don't be surprised if theres a super sentai based gag outfit, PSP2 had it for all races, and it was easy to access.

Just because this game isn't jpop anymore doesn't mean it's not japanese.

As for the actual mechs I'm pretty sure that was an exaggerated joke from the beginning, I dunno if you're playing around or taking it seriously or not it's kinda creeping me out...

Either way it's not like we've seen more than 10% of this game's actual content. Wow I'm like the god of driving people off topic over little shit. o_o

[ShadowDragon28]

The Casts look more like a mix of various Gundam mecha and Zone of Enders mecha IMO.

This is PSO 2, I don't yet see any indication of it being like PSp/PSp2/PSp-i yet filled with super moe kawaii j-pop, power ranger, anime fan service stuff.

Also, giant weapons are typical of alot of action manga and anime for the past 15 yrs so are nothing new and not just a "Power Rangers" thing.

[RemiusTA]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Remius,
I wasnt fucking implying that playing the original Ps games was "worthy of respect" in of itself. But that one's determination, hard work, and overall experience in whatever one has extensive experience in *is* IMO worthy of respect. Again. Please don't assume something I didn't specifically say or write.

.................................................. ..............................................



Not gonna lie - I didn't read a single reply about that argument in entirety if it was more than 2/3 sentences. I just skimmed and laughed.

[NoiseHERO]

This is actually...

You know going to be a real full online game with hopefully dozens of major updates. Just to throw it out there that you shouldn't expect this to be a simple one way trip back to PSO's nostalgia. This is something bigger than you or me, japanese people will be mad without the gags and fanservice. Most of their characters are already lolis...

Japans tokusatsu(or simply power ranger world for everyone else in the world who don't give a shit) world is like 'mericas comic book world, WWE and pokemon put together. There's always going to be some reference to the trope in almost anything related to asian culture in some small way shape or form. PSU series having a plenty, if anything GUNDAM even copied some "power ranger" stuff. These go back to the early 70's at oldest taking reference from godzilla before it was cool in order to have giant robots in general!

Without the tokusatsu world PSO probably would've been... e_e

Something else. e_e

Without mickey mouse sonic would've been... just some guy some human guy with sunglasses or some shit, and he delivered pizza and videogames to you in under 30 minutes or less!

PSO wouldn't be shit without "power rangers"!

edit: Oh Remius was already having a pokemon battle with shadow? I'll just find someone else whose easily thrown off by petty topics to battle with...

[ShadowDragon28]

I see, good for you RemiusTA. *sarcasm*


Now let's get back on topic. Because I'm done with frivolous arguments and having to clarify what I post, and I really shouldn't provide anymore comments for people to be dismissive of or constantly have to belittle, contradict and be condsending towards.

heck, I shouldn't even bother with responding to or posting anything in these threads at all.

[NoiseHERO]

I see, good for you RemiusTA. *sarcasm*


Now let's get back on topic. Because I'm done with frivolous arguments and having to clarify what I post, and I really shouldn't provide anymore comments for people to be dismissive of or constantly have to belittle, contradict and be condsending towards.

heck, I shouldn't even bother with responding to or posting anything in these threads at all.

You remind me of Ringo Williams...

[ShadowDragon28]

who the frak is Ringo Williams?

[Cast Soldier]

So because they gotta be different, you automatically assume newmans gotta have better techs? What about those hunter and ranger newmans, they gotta feed their kids too! Not all newmans get into force school, and hang with the force kids, and grow up being all force like!


It's in their descibtion Newmans are sensitive and focus photon better than any other race. Even if they don't go to Force school like good little Newmans are suppose to, that's what their breed for and are predisposed to do....... :eek:
That does sound RACIST.

Well overlooking my racistism, what do you think about my improved ideas with RemuisTA suggestions and thoughts, like the SUV mode, and the other things I went into futher detail about.

[ShadowDragon28]

I hope that Newmans in PSO 2 can be Hunter class leveled-up to be more like the *Numans* in Phantasy Star II and Ps IV (the original games);
you know swift and agile but still damn strong **fighters**, sort of like a female version of Wolverine. Instead of just being fucking Tech slinging "Space Elves". >:-/

[Cast Soldier]

I hope that Newmans in PSO 2 can be Hunter class leveled-up to be more like the *Numans* in Phantasy Star II and Ps IV (the original games);
you know swift and agile but still damn strong **fighters**, sort of like a female version of Wolverine. Instead of just being fucking Tech slinging "Space Elves". >:-/

I never played the original games(I assume you mean the DC versions, I never had a DC). Newmans were supposed to be like that in PSU. Each race was supposed to play each class different, but every race played the same no matter what class they were(they all played like Ethan Waber to me).

[ShadowDragon28]

no im not refering PSO on the Dreamcast, I'm refering to Phantasy Star II and Phantasy Star IV on the Sega MegaDrive/Genesis (you know Sega's 16-BIT console), those Numans where Nei, Nei First and Rika (a.k.a.) Fahl.
They are originally supposed to be genetically engineered half-human, half biomonster hybrid beings with exceptional attack strength and are speedy and agile, along the lines of X-men's Wolverine.

They were not originally Tech focused "space elves", PSO and more so PSU made them more like elves unfortunately. :/

[ShinMaruku]

I hope that Newmans in PSO 2 can be Hunter class leveled-up to be more like the *Numans* in Phantasy Star II and Ps IV (the original games);
you know swift and agile but still damn strong **fighters**, sort of like a female version of Wolverine. Instead of just being fucking Tech slinging "Space Elves". >:-/
See the musk cat was pretty decent with techs and that's where Nei's feline gene came about.

[ShadowDragon28]

Ps I had Magic spells, not Techs (Techniques), Techniques are probably technology based. But still Numans were never intended to be the de-facto Tech using race in Ps II or Ps IV. PSO and PSU tried to make them "magic" focused "space elves" instead of a powerful and agile feline-ish genetic hybrid species.

They could use Techs sure, but it was the human characters and Esper humans that excelled at powerful Techniques (Techs). Rune was a human esper, iheritor of the mind knoweldge and power of Lutz himself.

[Cast Soldier]

no im not refering PSO on the Dreamcast, I'm refering to Phantasy Star II and Phantasy Star IV on the Sega MegaDrive/Genesis (you know Sega's 16-BIT console), those Numans where Nei, Nei First and Rika (a.k.a.) Fahl.
They are originally supposed to be genetically engineered half-human, half biomonster hybrid beings with exceptional attack strength and are speedy and agile, along the lines of X-men's Wolverine.

They were not originally Tech focused "space elves", PSO and more so PSU made them more like elves unfortunately. :/

I apologize I had a Genesis but I never played those games. The only time I heard about Nei and Rika are from their weapons in the GC version, I always wonder who they were.

In PSO the GC version the character Sue fought how you descibed and did techs alittle bit. She mostly used claws like the other two, the HUnewmal(spelling?) class played like that. In PSU Karen played like that but she didn't have techs until she gained them. Players that picked Newmans that mained the Hunter class were supposed to play like that, but the distinctions race were lost to gain the vast amount of customization options.

[Zorafim]

It's in their descibtion Newmans are sensitive and focus photon better than any other race.

Their DESCRIPTION is WRONG


Well overlooking my racistism, what do you think about my improved ideas with RemuisTA suggestions and thoughts, like the SUV mode, and the other things I went into futher detail about.

I already said it was so badass, my head exploded into a rainbow of a thousand flavors of sugar. Of course, now I can't remember what it was.


I apologize I had a Genesis but I never played those games.

Pirate Phantasy Star IV RIGHT NOW!

[yoshiblue]

I only had sports games and sonic the hedgehog for mine. Not my call though. Twas my uncle's sega.

[RenzokukenZ]

I hope that Newmans in PSO 2 can be Hunter class leveled-up to be more like the *Numans* in Phantasy Star II and Ps IV (the original games);
you know swift and agile but still damn strong **fighters**, sort of like a female version of Wolverine. Instead of just being fucking Tech slinging "Space Elves". >:-/

That's what Beasts were for. They are the spiritual successors of the original Numans.

[BIG OLAF]

That's what Beasts were for. They are the spiritual successors of the original Numans.

Yeah. I don't think most people realize that "Newmans" in PSO/PSU/PSO2 weren't supposed to be like the "Numans" from the original Phantasy Stars. They're different, hence the different names.

Wouldn't make much sense if bio-engineered people-creatures from Algol were magically on the Pioneer 2 and/or in Gurhal.

[kyuuketsuki]

Yeah. I don't think most people realize that "Newmans" in PSO/PSU/PSO2 weren't supposed to be like the "Numans" from the original Phantasy Stars. They're different, hence the different names.
Nah, still don't buy it. Just looks like differences in localization, just like Dark Force / Dark Falz. Are they actually spelled differently in Japanese?

Wouldn't make much sense if bio-engineered people-creatures from Algol were magically on the Pioneer 2 and/or in Gurhal.
Makes as much (or as little) sense as humans apparently evolving separately in multiple different solar systems, or the same ultimate villain from the original Phantasy Stars appearing in PSO/PSU, or weapons made famous by characters from the originals appearing in PSO/PSU, etc.

I'm well aware that, lore-wise, they aren't supposed to be the same Numans/Newmans that were in the originals, but the shift to tech-specialists was primarily a gameplay decision, I think, since if you could choose between Human and Newman but Newmans were superior physically in both strength and agility, then what use would having Humans be (unless you non-sensically made all Human characters "Esper" or whatever it was). Plus it would leave no room for a third race.

Plus the characterization of Newmans as being physically adept in terms of agility persisted in some ways, hence their superior EVA (if I'm remembering right).

[Keilyn]

Yeah. I don't think most people realize that "Newmans" in PSO/PSU/PSO2 weren't supposed to be like the "Numans" from the original Phantasy Stars. They're different, hence the different names.

Wouldn't make much sense if bio-engineered people-creatures from Algol were magically on the Pioneer 2 and/or in Gurhal.

Actually that is because of the text and memory limitations of console games. During that time most console games had a limit to 4 characters for names and some had a limit of six, specially at the resolution.

In fact the resolution was so small that a whole sentence would fit across the entire screen if you all remember. Today resolution is large enough for the font to be smaller.

SEGA and BLIZZARD are similar companies in the sense the people who play their games are fanatics from their previous games. People played PSO hoping to have newmans like in Phantasy Star II and IV. People played PSU hoping newmans were like PSO.

On the blizzard side of things the majority of people who played WoW were die hard fans of Warcraft I - III and some Diablo fans as well.

We were introduced to "newmans" in Phantasy Star II and IV and that is the template that stuck with many. Of course I am all for the newmans.

Casts have changed in the fact back then they could not cast spells and that remained true even through PSO. Except that Resta worked on any kind of life (even non biological) in PSO. Now they can cast spells in PSU+ and I remember in End of the Millenium and look at where SUVs come from (hint...remember demi finding parts and installing them?)

Humans still are "average" at most. ^_^

Beasts are the newcomers, but it makes me think of "Rise of the Lycans" for some weird reason...

[RemiusTA]

Yeah. I don't think most people realize that "Newmans" in PSO/PSU/PSO2 weren't supposed to be like the "Numans" from the original Phantasy Stars. They're different, hence the different names.

Wouldn't make much sense if bio-engineered people-creatures from Algol were magically on the Pioneer 2 and/or in Gurhal.

This. Im really suprised you dummies are even comparing the two, like anything else from PSO was 100% true to the other phantasy star titles.


Even if they ARE on the same timeline/universe, then they're probably so far apart that it's plenty of time for everything to change and nothing to make sense anymore.

I remember in one of the games (PS2?), "reviving" your party members consisted of "cloning" them. Which is pretty fucked up...but whatever.

[yoshiblue]

Cant be any more strange then finding them in a closest in the middle of nowhere.

[Selphea]

Newmans aren't even space elves. They're just nerds with pointy ears. Even elves had their share of BAMFs like Drizzt, whose melee prowess was so great it broke the fourth wall and was singlehandedly responsible for butchering the D&D "Ranger" class into a melee class, and "boom headshot" Legolas, who scored more frags than any BF3 player can ever hope to get in a lifetime

[RemiusTA]

it's like the Newman race in PSO/U has come under fire simply because someone used the term "space elf".

[amtalx]

it's like the Newman race in PSO/U has come under fire simply because someone used the term "space elf".

Sometimes the truth hurts.

[yoshiblue]

Space cats!

[Omega-z]

no space cat's are Muskcats, space elves/trolls are the Dezolisian like Raja, Neuman/Newman are bio-weapon's or a genetic mutt/ later science nerds, Motavian's are like Avatar with better tech and weapons, Beasts are bio-grunts to do heavy labor; Superhuman's/later thief's, Casts are cyborgs to a more futuristic robots; mechanical version's of bio-weapons/later care-takers, Duman's are stoned on Seed gene's / playing the bad guy as a good guy, Human's well are everything else from Espers, to warriors, to Lovers/humper, science Nerds, all out Lazy Bums and greedy, the Holy Ancients are dicks to one love, And Darkness/Seed are power hungry fools to revengeful destroy everything, And Rappy race is Fan service and lovable cutie loli, There mite be one more a Data race which is very uppedie up but are very secretive.


recipe for Neuman/Newman =

1 Hildbear,
1 Booma,
2 Human DNA,
then mix in a little Dezolisian to give it some balls and tech spice,
add a tablespoon of salt of life with some Needing and loving that helps with the longevity,
Then add some science coloring,
and last but not least the loli topping to make it all nice.

= one yummy Neuman/Newman.Enjoy:):rappy:

[RemiusTA]

Sometimes the truth hurts.


or sometimes the internet should stop trying to hard to justify their arguments with dumb stuffz

[BIG OLAF]

or sometimes the internet should stop trying to hard to justify their arguments with dumb stuffz

That's not going to happen.

[RemiusTA]

Yeah i know : /

[NoiseHERO]

Or just stop trying to argue... If you know what I mean.

It'll have the same outcome either way, sure you'll look like a dick, but who cares at least it'll make nearly useless online forums fun. Otherwise there's no reason to be there at all.

GO ON.

DO IT..!

Okay yeah don't listen to me, every online forum I've ever been through I manage to find a way to convert everyone into a troll.

[RemiusTA]

It isnt hard. You just constantly let them realize how much more fun it is to not care.

[dooby613]

I know people have fond memories of their Mags and all, but the reality was that for a human class in PSO you could use 250 mats(not talking about tp or hp) that could boost your stats by 500 which is much bigger than a mag. Most people did/do find mag raising in PSO a pain and I really don't care one way or the other if they are included or not. I think PSO2 will be it's own thing and we can all just try it when it comes and see how that goes.

[NoiseHERO]

I think PSO2 will be it's own thing

That's a hard mentality to get across, especially for the people that would be happy with just a PSO HD, or the people that got butthurt over PSU not being PSO in general.

Of course that'd revive that ancient issue of whether or not PSO2 means PSO 2 and not just a new PSO series that we had before we knew what this game was going to look like. So I don't even know why I'm dragging this out, bored I guess.

[Zorafim]

It's kinda hard to imagine PSO2 being its own thing considering that it's being sold as the sequel to PSO. PSU at least had the excuse of not having a 2 in the name. But now we're getting the impression that they're trying to go back to how things were in PSO.


Yeah. I don't think most people realize that "Newmans" in PSO/PSU/PSO2 weren't supposed to be like the "Numans" from the original Phantasy Stars. They're different, hence the different names.

Suddenly, I imagined Chocobos being rapters. I wonder how well that would work out.

[RemiusTA]

This game was destined to never be a "real PSO2", mostly because the people who did PSP2 and the people who did PSO were on two different thinking levels. Whereas PSO was mostly a game of innovation and style, PSP2 was mostly a game of fanservice. And when i say "Fanservice", I don't only mean the completely ridiculous clothing options; no, i mean the entire game. Blocking/dodging/chaining/mirage blasts/PSO cameos....pretty much everything was catering to the players, and borrowing mechanics from other successful MMOs. This is not a bad thing, but at the same time, it's going to produce a much different product than the original.


I never expected them to try to make another game like PSO. They're going to borrow features, names and concepts, but for the most part, this game is going to have one distinctive difference from the original PSO -- the content and gameplay systems are going to be largely predicable.

[NoiseHERO]

This game was destined to never be a "real PSO2", mostly because the people who did PSP2 and the people who did PSO were on two different thinking levels. Whereas PSO was mostly a game of innovation and style, PSP2 was mostly a game of fanservice. And when i say "Fanservice", I don't only mean the completely ridiculous clothing options; no, i mean the entire game. Blocking/dodging/chaining/mirage blasts/PSO cameos....pretty much everything was catering to the players, and borrowing mechanics from other successful MMOs. This is not a bad thing, but at the same time, it's going to produce a much different product than the original.


I never expected them to try to make another game like PSO. They're going to borrow features, names and concepts, but for the most part, this game is going to have one distinctive difference from the original PSO -- the content and gameplay systems are going to be largely predicable.

With that description of fanservice... Yeah this game is going to be the ultimate piece of phan service.

[Lesita]

But, i like mags :( although i don't mind if they aren't there, but again, i think they'll be there since is a sequel to the first pso?

[Omega-z]

This game is part of a Bridge that puts PSO and PSU together. PSP2i where did the Lacen ship come form looks lot like pioneer 2 maybe Coral? form PSZ or is it Pioneer 3? or something else form one of the other PS titles?. in PSO2, the thing is where did they come form, possibly Ragol. but It's hard to believe that, since the lack of resources to make a fleet like that(since they hadn't really settle on the planet yet, or did they in BB? / or is there more time between the time line of PSO and PSU to work). And another thing I notice is why was there a city before they had gotten there. Hmm...maybe PSO2 is after PSU since the city looked like Holtes city and didn't it get attacked in PSP2i ? Have to wait for more info to see and find out?

[NoiseHERO]

But, i like mags :( although i don't mind if they aren't there, but again, i think they'll be there since is a sequel to the first pso?

Well there are mags. :0

So that's why it's funny that the mag lovers don't really have a reason to get worked up over one persons opinion.. Oh and other people that don't even care/mind if we have them or not, just unsure of what the hype is outside of classic PSO, which this game is not.

[Zorafim]

This game is part of a Bridge that puts PSO and PSU together.

There is a high probability that none of the PS series are connected by anything unless specifically stated. Think of it as Final Fantasy. The games are connected in some ways, but there are rarely official sequels. Considering that all three stories so far take place in different solar systems unconnected by anything but the Profound Darkness' spawn, I don't think any new connections will be found.
There is a probability that PSO2 will link to PSO, though. We don't know any of PSO2's story, and PSO's story was never cleared up. And even if it was, we never really got rid of Dark Falz, did we? He's still clear to come back a millenia after PSO, where Ragol is finally on its feet. And of course, we never got the story to how he got imprisoned in the first place.

Oh, right. Mags will most likely be in the game. It has been officially stated that they'll be in. So there's no reason at all to get antsy about the possibility that they won't be in.
It might be possible that they'll be changed, though. I don't think they'll be the same stat stick as before. It's more likely they'll be more for character accessorization, and for using abilities (free shifta/deband, photon blasts, etc). But none of that is important, because I can make a robot cape again!

[arucard07]

Speaking from the perspective of someone who started playing PSO when it came out for Dreamcast, (please don't carbon-date me, I've heard it hurts) I can understand where Zyrusticae is coming from as far as wanting MAGs back for nostalgia's sake. IMO the Pros of a MAG done right greatly out weighed the cons. And given that they were a brand new idea for thier time, YEAH, they had their problems but they helped far more than it was an annoyance to feed them, again IMO. Plus it just looked cooler running around the Ruins having with a little mechanical partner. :3

As for what I hope MAGs to be in PSO2, I'd like to see them take a role like charms in the Monster Hunter series have. Each MAG could have one or more special skills like give an added status effect to your weapon than the one you already have equipt, or give an ability like increasing the range you have to be in to gain EXP for Force & Ranger. They could easily make them so that they could be visible or invisble like what they're planning for units. I WOULD like for more asthetic custimization option for them though, like changing the color so it could match the color scheme your character has & maybe for the dual MAGs (like ones that look like wings) have a feature where you can change their positioning.


Just some opionions & ideas... & probably tons of mispellings. :P

[yoshiblue]

Think they would give them a UAV ability(scouting)?

[arucard07]

It's possible.

Who knows what Sega's thinking anymore?
xD

[RemiusTA]

Well, i was hoping for some cast / mag abilities that go beyond simple damage or simple features that they could easily patch into the game (like a thermal mode or something for traps/hidden areas, or SOMETHING i dont know), but i doubt we'll be getting anything like that.

But no, they've been exceedingly quiet as of late, we wont be getting info for a while i guess...

[arucard07]

I just hope they don't go the route of the fiasco that PMs were in PSU. At least now i know, thanks to that I would make a horrible babysitter.

[ShinMaruku]

It's possible.

Who knows what Sega's thinking anymore?
xD
They think 2 things. Boobies and money.

[arucard07]

They think 2 things. Boobies and money.

Yeeeaaaaah, even their sliders are sexist. Mark my words, there'll probably be millions of lolis with triple F cups. D:

[NoiseHERO]

Yeeeaaaaah, even their sliders are sexist. Mark my words, there'll probably be millions of lolis with triple F cups. D:

Before you bring up this issue again, the girl players like the titty slider too.

FREEDOM!

[ShinMaruku]

Everybody loves titties!

[Zyrusticae]

I love it when someone implies, unknowingly or otherwise, that customization can ever be sexist.

Unless they mean lack of customization, that is. But freedom is never sexist.

[Kent]

Boobies and money.
Those should be the only two character creation sliders.

[kyuuketsuki]

I love it when someone implies, unknowingly or otherwise, that customization can ever be sexist.

Unless they mean lack of customization, that is. But freedom is never sexist.
It's sexist because they have the boob slider but no penis slider. Because a secondary sex characteristic is obviously analagous to actual genitalia. :rolleyes:

[arucard07]

It's sexist because they have the boob slider but no penis slider. Because a secondary sex characteristic is obviously analagous to actual genitalia. :rolleyes:

About what I said regarding sextist sliders... This.

[Selphea]

We need a slider for pecs and six-pack definition!

[RemiusTA]

Probably wont be getting one, it looks like they're added on via texture or shader.

It'd be great though.

[Zyrusticae]

If you're talking about definition, we already have that (something I am eternally grateful for):
[spoiler-box]http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/765/wwwdotuporg1969155.jpghttp://img831.imageshack.us/img831/410/wwwdotuporg1969160.jpg[/spoiler-box]

Now, obviously, if you mean MASS, that's something you would add through weight and girth, and we already have that, too. :D

[Zorafim]

JESUS FREAKING LOLI TOILETS ON A UNICYCLIC POGO POLE DOUSED IN FLYING BLUE MONKEY TEA I FORGOT HOW BEAUTIFUL THE MODELS WERE IN THIS GAME

I cannot WAIT to play with the character customizer. That hair, those muscles, those hundreds of options, those billions of combinations...
I would be perfectly satisfied with just that while I wait.

[NoiseHERO]

JESUS FREAKING LOLI TOILETS ON A UNICYCLIC POGO POLE DOUSED IN FLYING BLUE MONKEY TEA I FORGOT HOW BEAUTIFUL THE MODELS WERE IN THIS GAME

I cannot WAIT to play with the character customizer. That hair, those muscles, those hundreds of options, those billions of combinations...
I would be perfectly satisfied with just that while I wait.

THEN WHEN IT'S ALL DONE YOU CAN WRAP IT ALL UP AND HIDE IT IN A ONE PIECE COSTUME YEAH!

Seriously gotta see more outfits, You PSO fanboys are gettin' spoiled enough, wheres my PSU charms!?

[amtalx]

I'm probably the only person that will spend no more than 5 minutes in the character creator. Customization is entirely secondary to me.

[ShinMaruku]

I will spend 5 mins on the boobies alone.

[Nuclearranger]

Not to change the current topic too much but mags were announced.

[NoiseHERO]

Not to change the current topic too much but mags were announced.

They were announced a whiiiile ago, too.

[BIG OLAF]

If you're talking about definition, we already have that (something I am eternally grateful for)

Wow, I had actually not seen that. You can actually give the girls muscle definition now? Just when I thought PSO2 couldn't make the character I'm envisioning any more exact, they go and do that. This is a glorious day.

[Ryna]

Since Mags have been formally confirmed, I'm going to close this thread.