Player stats have changed

[Fenn777]

On PSOblog, after the screenshots for the new update it says:


According to the screenshot the stats have changed.
HP
PP
打撃力 (Striking Power)
射撃力 (Range Power)
法撃力 (Force Power)
技量: Ability (aka Skill)
打撃防御 (Striking Defense)
射撃防御: (Range Defense)
法撃防御 (Force Defense)

This is interesting. I'm not sure how much sense it makes separating ranged and striking defense, but then again every attack is photon so if they're going to split force defense may as well have a different stat for all three.

I wonder if this will lead to more balanced race differences. Perhaps Casts will have better Striking and Ranged defense, Newman will have more Force defense, and Humans will have more Skill? What do you think?

[Dre_o]

Interesting. I think that this is most likely a way to allow better balance. Maybe. I'd still rather wait and see than make speculation though.

[Mike]

The names have just changed to make the stats easier to understand. The way they work doesn't seem to have changed.

[Seth Astra]

Just out of curiosity, what does Skill do?

[Norco]

Sweet, I think we will see some nice balance of different builds in the future ^_^

[Zyrusticae]

Yeah, what does Skill (formerly Ability, IIRC) actually do? I'm still confused on that one.

[BIG OLAF]

Maybe it's the amount of passive effects you can have on your character. Just guessing.

[PlinderD]

And here I was about to whoop about how SEGA finally dropping anything that resembled ATA and EVP... then I saw the Skill stat. Hopefully that isn't just those two stats rolled into one and renamed.

Godamnit, Action RPG developers should really get rid of stat-based accuracy and evasion mechanics. Unless they do it like MH where Evade gives a constant bonus to the invinciblity period.

[Angelo]

And here I was about to whoop about how SEGA finally dropping anything that resembled ATA and EVP... then I saw the Skill stat. Hopefully that isn't just those two stats rolled into one and renamed.

Godamnit, Action RPG developers should really get rid of stat-based accuracy and evasion mechanics. Unless they do it like MH where Evade gives a constant bonus to the invinciblity period.

I think TERA is the first actual MMO to get rid of evasion and accuracy completely.

[Cayenne]

Does Strike Defense mean it lowers damage from ONLY a physical attack like a punch, kick, slash, bite, etc.?

Is that's how this works?

[Kent]

Does Strike Defense mean it lowers damage from ONLY a physical attack like a punch, kick, slash, bite, etc.?

Is that's how this works?
Considering the names, yeah, probably.

Strike defense is defense against "striking" attacks, range defense is defense against "ranged" attacks, and "force" defense is defense against techniques and whatnot. Odds are they're mutually-exclusive as to which is used in a given defensive calculation.

Ability/Skill is still undefined though.

[Anon_Fire]

Ability/Skill is still undefined though.

I found out is also means proficiency.

[Omega-z]

It could mean your point level to use weapons or Skills form the tree.

[Alena Zouryx]

I wonder if I'm in the minority in wishing that they had just stuck with the classic PSO stats.

That's probably just my nostalgia for the series speaking, and I'm sure there are plenty of reasons behind the change (balance, primarily, I'm assuming?), but it's "PSO2" ... I was really hoping the familiar stat-names and their (general) effects would be the same.

[Cayenne]

You should consider PSO2 to be an "evolution" of PSO and PSU because it's not a true sequel to PSO nor PSU. Sakai, director of PSO2, stated a while ago that's it's not.

Don't let that 2 confuse you.

[r00tabaga]

You should consider PSO2 to be an "evolution" of PSO and PSU because it's not a true sequel to PSO nor PSU. Sakai, director of PSO2, stated a while ago that's it's not.

Don't let that 2 confuse you.

I wish that Sakai would just call it PSU2 already! He's making a good game, but it is not PSO2. Definately more PSU. It is confusing to my friends who fondly remember PSO but never played PSU. :confused:
Just my $.02 .....which should be roughly $4.00 by this post. :-P

[Kent]

You should consider PSO2 to be an "evolution" of PSO and PSU because it's not a true sequel to PSO nor PSU. Sakai, director of PSO2, stated a while ago that's it's not.

Don't let that 2 confuse you.
There are fundamental differences between the styles of games that are PSO and PSU, and while PSU was originally an offshoot of PSO, it wasn't called "PSO2" simply because of these differences being so extreme.

While there's nothing inherently wrong with changing gameplay for the better (a lesson that the developers behind traditionalistic series like Dragon Quest and Pokemon have painfully managed to not learn), I really have to wonder why they're calling it "PSO2" if it's not intended to be a direct successor to the "PSO" name. I would hope it's not just pulling at nostalgic heartstrings of the playerbase - if it proves to be too unlike PSO in its core concepts or ignoring of the notion of extending what PSO was, then maybe they should call it something else.

Ideally it would be a logical extension of what PSO was. Granted, there are some small elements presented in PSU that would be a part of this (for example, splitting up frame slots into specific types, to help with balance issues presented by PSO's slot system), but there are also many that simply aren't (such as the overwhelming emphasis on what is effectively corridor-running, mindless hack-and-slash, foregoing nearly all tangible exploration).

[Tetsaru]

If this is any indication, then I'm glad to see each job getting its own stat in terms of damage. It never made much sense to me why Hunters and Rangers were both based on ATP, because it often meant Hunters could do more damage with guns if both jobs could equip the same gun weapon (HUcast with Vulcans, for example) and accuracy wasn't an issue. Besides, it makes a lot more sense that you would need different training to swing a sword around rather rather than keep a gun steady, aim, and pull the trigger.

Also, I'd be cool with them removing accuracy and evasion, because honestly, for an action RPG, it kinda makes sense. If I run up to a monster and CLEARLY hit it with an attack, but the word "MISS" still pops up without any indication of the monster trying to dodge or move out of the way, then it just looks odd and tends to get annoying. If you actually have to aim and time your attacks properly, as well as learn to guard and dodge at the appropriate times, I think it will make the action of the game better overall, and it will also keep players on their toes and require some actual skill, which would be nice seeing how PSU was pretty much "spam PA button and zerg to win." That said though, things like enemy hitboxes, collision detection, balancing of weapons, etc. will need to be polished, but judging from the Alpha footage, I think they're off to a good start.

[NoiseHERO]

I wish that Sakai would just call it PSU2 already! He's making a good game, but it is not PSO2. Definately more PSU. It is confusing to my friends who fondly remember PSO but never played PSU. :confused:
Just my $.02 .....which should be roughly $4.00 by this post. :-P

That's what you're seeing, but I'm definitely seeing more of a "Super PSO Kingdom hearts may cry nice character customization only thing from PSU is the rooms."

I've just grown to accept it even after outgrowing PSO.

Still, a lot of the game looks like it's moving on. So people shouldn't be so attached when something is "too different from how PSO did it!"

[ShadowDragon28]

I'd list the the reasons WHY PSO2 is *not* "PSU 2", but I don't feel like getting into a arguement/debate with some of the members here.

[Legato Bluesummers]

PSO is an 11 year old game. Being considerably different (see: improved) from it is a good thing IMO.

And despite the PSU elements PSO2 seems to have, it also appears to possess the same "spirit" as PSO, with similar art direction, background music and overall atmosphere and feel, which is perfect for me since those were some of the things in which I found PSU to be lacking and what made it a less special/memorable experience than PSO.

[Cayenne]

I'd list the the reasons WHY PSO2 is *not* "PSU 2", but I don't feel like getting into a arguement/debate with some of the members here.

We should instead focus on what's NOT PSO/PSU and discuss how it's going to make this game kick some major ass and fun for a long time like:

-(Obvious) Different kinds of stats
-Random generated maps (hello Diablo 1)
-Skill tree
-Jumping (we can FINALLY hit those damn birds)
-Third Person Mode

Just to list a few...

[ShadowDragon28]

I do hope it's possible to do non-PP using three hit jumping combos (that isnt a Photon Art), that do respectable damage. Now that would kick ass.

That's what I loved about PSzero on the DS, PA's were pretty much optional it seemed, and normal three-hit combos actually did very good damage on enemies.

[Enforcer MKV]

I'm glad that they're evolving the series now. I played Blue Burst, and PSU, and a lot of the issues I had with one I had with the other.

can't......roll.......

can't.....shoot rifle.....and move....at same time....

I'll probably be burned at the cross for this, but....I liked PSU more than PSO, and there were some things that PSZ did better than either of them.

So...um...yeah....I'm gonna run from the angry crowd now, kthxbai! *ZOOM*

[Mike]

Just out of curiosity, what does Skill do?
Skill/Ability/Profecency/whatever (技量 in Japanese, the naming hasn't changed there) affects the amount of damage done. I don't know the specifics though. In the first alpha, rangers had a branch in their skill tree to passively increase this stat.

[r00tabaga]

I'm glad that they're evolving the series now. I played Blue Burst, and PSU, and a lot of the issues I had with one I had with the other.

can't......roll.......

can't.....shoot rifle.....and move....at same time....

I'll probably be burned at the cross for this, but....I liked PSU more than PSO, and there were some things that PSZ did better than either of them.

So...um...yeah....I'm gonna run from the angry crowd now, kthxbai! *ZOOM*

I think we can all agree that we all love Phantasy Star. PSO or PSU, it doesn't matter. I was more PSO, but this game really looks good and w/ the changes that were recently made from feedback rec'd, it sounds like they want to really nail this one (no matter what it's called). I just think PSU2 would've been more fitting. PSO2 seems like blatant fanservice.

Again, this is a game that everyone should enjoy.....as long as you have a PC of course. ;)

[PlinderD]

Skill/Ability/Profecency/whatever (技量 in Japanese, the naming hasn't changed there) affects the amount of damage done. I don't know the specifics though. In the first alpha, rangers had a branch in their skill tree to passively increase this stat.

Oh thank god, so it looks like none of the stats affect accuracy or evasion. Here's to ATA and EVP staying gone. Best change to the general PSO mechanics for me.

[Zyrusticae]

^- Agreed, EVP and ATA can stay gone forever and ever as far as I'm concerned.

I mean, if they ever go to a turn-based combat thingy, they can have it back. But we all know that's never going to happen.

[NoiseHERO]

So it's basically just the same stats in the other two games with different names and ability ?

[Alisha]

i think a lot of pso players hated what was basically PA spam in PSU. wich is why i stayed away from the game till zero and portable 2. i also dont understand why some of you want ata and eva gone. they have long been integral to balance. there needs to be a reason to want to use a human hunter over a cast one other than aesthetics.

[Cayenne]

i think a lot of pso players hated what was basically PA spam in PSU. wich is why i stayed away from the game till zero and portable 2. i also dont understand why some of you want ata and eva gone. they have long been integral to balance. there needs to be a reason to want to use a human hunter over a cast one other than aesthetics.

I have many reason why I hated PSU, you can read it here (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2709488&postcount=39) in this post.

ATA is gone because no longer can you MISS your attacks unless your weapon/bullets/tech never touches the enemy (which makes sense to me) and EVA is replaced by side step/dodge roll/teleport plus you can block without needing a shield.

The blocking I'm still kinda "ehh" about because you can already dodge attacks, it seems like it's overkill and unneeded.

I liked having your character auto block some attacks in PSO, to me the game shouldn't be too complex and removing the block button will help with that. Just my $0.02.

[maxx69]

I liked ATA because it meant axes could have massive stats without being overpowered, and EVA because auto-dodges saved my ass in PSO. But in the end, they make no sense in an action game and I can live without them.

[Omega-z]

Cayenne, I agree with you all the PA's screw'd up everything the PA's was the problem, Melee should had lower % mods since they can attack more often, Force the highest and ranger some where in the middle. I agree too they should of add more affects to the spell/weapons.

Now going down the list you had.

1.In PSU the scapes where blue, Must of been PSP2/PSPi.
2.Yeah the extend code sucks in that re-guards lol.
3.The Photon Charger had it uses when came to Casts but for the others not so much. because of OP SUV's and no love for the others.
4. Not always there are times that you don't need googles to see it.
5.Breakable wall where the same in PSO too most where three hit, but in both there are more then 15+ hit walls too. there's one in the event that's a normal wall that break down to rubble and then break down the rubble to get in.
6. Ah I would say no, PP to weapon gave more power(in the amount you used it) but was to easy to come by. in PSO it was more of a special right of usage. PP made other type's to powerful, I would say something in between the two. Have PP for Melee/Ranger with limited use that uses "BALANCED" PA's use. And TP only for Tech use only which can be higher base on the character stats like HP, Having it higher or lower base on race. Not Accessible to Melee or Ranger type's unless combined with the Sub class of Force and then it's limited also. What you think on that idea?

on ATA&EVP with the speed of the game I Don't think it would be good to have it any more in the way they had it before. Dodge/rolling/warping.....blocking only if they had a shield on makes more sense, is good for EVP. But I think they need to make the AI smarter and faster themselves so that they can block/dodge/roll/warp too, That way it adds to a ATA like system where you do miss completely and not just see a "MISS" a "0" or nothing at all.

OH, and better Auto targeting system on monsters for Force would not hurt, not that 3rd person stuff in PSO2 they have so far. Wrong Mechanic for a Force class, good for Ranger types and weapons but not for Tech Type's. I Think a Far Distance Auto Target system that we can quickly Shift between for a better Impact damage on cretin Foe's so we can hit more of are Tech's on it for more damage would be better.

[Cayenne]

Omega, yeah that post I made is around 90% PSP2/i and the rest from those 2 days of playing PSU lol, thanks for answering them. That idea for how PP and TP working in the game sounds great, I had an idea kinda like that a while ago except ranger don't get PP nor TP but special shells (think Outlaw Star), I think that would rock but that's just me.

I keep thinking about ATA/EVA and I really don't see a need for it anymore for this type of game and I'm glad that you don't need a shield to block. They should keep it the way it is in PSP2 and block with weapons and it should be the bigger the weapon the higher the damage reduced but really I just want to see how these new stats play out.

I agree with targeting for forces, if they don't do well in the field because they can't hit targets then SEGA NEEDS to implement a better targeting system but we haven't played it so we can't really say.

[kyuuketsuki]

I don't get people's issue with ATA/EVP myself. Don't give me any crap about "my weapon passed through it, how could it have missed wtf hurp". It's called abstraction, for frick's sake. They can't actually implement (visually and under-the-hood) things like weapons glancing off an enemy's armor, glancing blows that can't penetrate a monster's hide, an enemy ducking out of the way, etc. so that's represented by the ATA and EVP stats. No different than HP/DEF stats abstracting the amount of punishment someone or something can take before falling. Does it make sense that your weapon passes through an enemy a few times without any apparent effect besides maybe a flinch animation and then, suddenly, the fifth or whatever time they just keel over? Nope, but no one seems to complain about that, or anything other stats abstract but don't really make sense on-screen.

That said, I don't necessarily mind that they're gone, as long as there are good systems in place to differentiate weapon-classes and combat works well.

[Ce'Nedra]

Also, I'd be cool with them removing accuracy and evasion, because honestly, for an action RPG, it kinda makes sense. If I run up to a monster and CLEARLY hit it with an attack, but the word "MISS" still pops up without any indication of the monster trying to dodge or move out of the way, then it just looks odd and tends to get annoying. If you actually have to aim and time your attacks properly, as well as learn to guard and dodge at the appropriate times,

This is exactly why I love Monster Hunter. It makes it feel more realisitc as well, I rather fully miss a monster at all then running up and "missing" it because of to low ATA VS high EVA...

[Legato Bluesummers]

Yeah PSO was slow and stationary enough that it wasn't too problematic, but with PSO2's seemingly super fast and dynamic action with actual dodge commands and whatnot, I imagine that that kind of "missing" would get annoying fairly quick. So I'm all for them removing it.

[Alisha]

This is exactly why I love Monster Hunter. It makes it feel more realisitc as well, I rather fully miss a monster at all then running up and "missing" it because of to low ATA VS high EVA...

that works for monster becuse......theres only one damn race! so theres no need for balance.

[Mike]

The removal of accuracy and evasion obviously mean that races won't be balanced. The nine stats we have now mean nothing and racial balance will never be achieved. Obviously.

[Norco]

@Mike: Interesting, this did not cross my mind. Though with ranged and force pow/def in the mix at least we get some class balancing. Still, very good point there.

[Ark22]

I rather keep the zeros from PSU than the MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS (I was using a Double saber by the way) in pso.

[Sp-24]

@Mike, that's what future updates are for. Koreans are among the first people to get PSO2, and they care about their balance. If the game doesn't bomb, attention will be given to new stats, as well as gameplay in general, don't worry.

[NoiseHERO]

Now I'm confused... @_@

I blame not having to pay attention to stats in the PSU series, at all. In PSZ you HAD to pay attention though. PSO I was a noob... @_@

So basically we don't have to worry about hitting enemies and taking no damage or something anymore? @_@

I'll miss being a badass vegan ghost face straight edge hunewm ninja then. Not really since I won't be picking hunewm anyway, but yeah.

[Seth Astra]

I pretty much saw racial balance issues as soon as I looked at the stats (HUnewm player). However, the thought crossed my mind of differentiating the races through things other than stats. For example, giving CASTs their old immunities to certain status effects. Newmen could get better dash/dodge distances and/or invulnerability lengths. No idea about Humans. And, of course, there could be several more abilities. There could also be some disadvantages in the mix.

[Legato Bluesummers]

^ Exactly. Given the increased focus on action, the balancing could stem from active gameplay abilities and properties rather than just passive stats. Each race has already been confirmed to have its own dash/dodge animations , so they could easily be thinking of making that kind of stuff the main source of racial balance.

[Spellbinder]

^ Exactly. Given the increased focus on action, the balancing could stem from active gameplay abilities and properties rather than just passive stats. Each race has already been confirmed to have its own dash/dodge animations , so they could easily be thinking of making that kind of stuff the main source of racial balance.

If I may interject for a moment, isn't it the classes (hunter, ranger, force) that have different dashes and dodges?

[Legato Bluesummers]

Oh, you're right. I always seem to get races and classes confused...

Well, there's still a chance they'll announce race-specific pros and cons outside of stats in the future.

[Norco]

I pretty much saw racial balance issues as soon as I looked at the stats (HUnewm player). However, the thought crossed my mind of differentiating the races through things other than stats. For example, giving CASTs their old immunities to certain status effects. Newmen could get better dash/dodge distances and/or invulnerability lengths. No idea about Humans. And, of course, there could be several more abilities. There could also be some disadvantages in the mix.
I hope so, I plan on playing a HUnewm myself.

[Macman]

I rather keep the zeros from PSU than the MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS (I was using a Double saber by the way) in pso.FOmar much?

[Cayenne]

So the question now is what WILL be the difference between each race/sex besides looks?

[Zyrusticae]

Stats-wise, I can see it being the same as it always has. That is to say, humans are the middle in everything, Newmans have high force and ability but less of the others and low defenses (i.e. glass cannons), CASTs have high striking and high defenses but abysmal force and/or ability.

Ability-wise, they can make stuff up. Personally, I'd prefer they go away from the route of photon blasts (which only show up occasionally and don't really make that big a difference in the long run). Stuff like the aforementioned better dodging for Newmans and such would be cool. However, I would argue that they shouldn't be too big or else players will feel pigeon-holed into certain race/class combinations (which is pretty much inevitable in a world with high racial differentiation).

[PlinderD]

they have long been integral to balance.

Except the developers suck at balancing. Taking away ATA and EVP gives them less stats to botch up with. Besides this is an ARPG, manually aiming your attacks and evading the enemy's should fall under the Action part.

Unless by "balance" you meant "uniqueness", in which case you make it sound like the only difference between the six different Hunters are their ATA and EVP, that when you take those two stats away everything will be similar.

[Macman]

So the question now is what WILL be the difference between each race/sex besides looks?Not much aside of CAST master race again.

[Omega-z]

It looks like it will be like Human = Striking atp/ Striking def High stated Ranged low stated and Force middle stated, Cast = Ranged atp/ Ranged def High stated Force low stated and Striking middle stated, Numan = Froce atp/ Froce def High stated Striking low stated and Ranged middle stated and Skill/Ability/Proficiency being Hunter/Force/Ranger based stats. Then the hybird falling some where in between thoses.

[maxx69]

It looks like it will be like Human = Striking atp/ Striking def High stated Ranged low stated and Force middle stated, Cast = Ranged atp/ Ranged def High stated Force low stated and Striking middle stated, Numan = Froce atp/ Froce def High stated Striking low stated and Ranged middle stated and Skill/Ability/Proficiency being Hunter/Force/Ranger based stats. Then the hybird falling some where in between thoses.

Does this mean my RAmarl has to be a RAnewearl instead...

[Dinosaur]

If you wanna talk about stats, this is taken from lvl 1 characters.


HP: Cast, Caseal, Mar, Marl, Newm, Newearl; first being the highest

Melee atk: Cast is 1st, Caseal and Mar 2nd, everyone else 3rd
Ranged atk: Caseal is 1st, Cast 2nd, Mar 3rd, Marl 4th, News last.
Magic atk: Newearl 1st, Newm 2nd, Marl 3rd, Mar 4th, Casts last

Ability: Casts, Marl, Mar, News; first being the highest

Melee def: Cast and Mar 1st
Ranged def: Caseal and Newm 1st
Magic def: Marl and Newearl 1st, Mar and Newm 2nd, Casts last.

[•Col•]

CAST MASTER RACE

[Macman]

Cast supremacy continues, unless they manage to make Techs absurdly strong. That's unlikely, though.

[Alnet]

Aw geez. Please let there be insane and varied growth among the classes/races/sexes. Ideally, insanely varied growth. It'll definitely be one of the things I'd be looking for, should I get the opportunity to get into the next open test.

[Omega-z]

I think it's going to be re-balanced again. I'm thinking they want humans to be the same old neutral group again but that's dumb when it comes to balance. Because like others have said Casts are to powerful for there own good, then you have humans being nothing at the end again and Numans the tech powerhouse that can't hurt anything at the end. They need to stop thinking that.

And any way Cast should have the better stats in Range but not in Striking since most of the time Humans are better fighters, Since there are two type of machines here the fist is your powerhouse type stronger but super slow can be overcome by faster humans the second a faster type that is faster but lack the power so a human with better power with good speed still can overcome a Cast look at the Vanilla PS series Humans didn't get pushed around. And to balance out the races It need to be this way otherwise it's going to be pretty much Cast (especially Ranger) for the win all the time.

It's true that a Ramarl would be bad if she had low stat on range but remember that it's not that big of an issue since her main role was a Distance supporter and not focused in combat as much but even then the difference can be 50 pts like PSO or 500 pts like PSU which I hope for more the PSO difference since it possible make it still good with range. Now they could make it that the Ramarl has better Ranged Def and the Ranewarl better Ranged Atp which can be close to both stats. And any case Between the races both Numans and Cast have better eye site then Humans anyway, It makes sense but of course Sega doesn't understand that at least not yet.

I think adding in a special ability is what they need more for the type and race choice that it can only do, can be the best choice they can do and leave stats not as important as much.

[Cayenne]

As long as there's an advantage to being a certain race/sex i.e. skills, mobility, abilities, then the small differences in stats won't matter as much.

[SolRiver]

Now that we know the spades, heart, diamond and clover; we just need to know what are their number.

I mean, if the difference is like 1 stat away... well...

Anyway, I am more curious of the new materials and units, or rather, ways for players to customize their own stats. ATP is not going to be universal anymore, hence you will (most likely) never see spread needle madness again.

To the cast master race's human/newman slaves, have hope! Your freedom might be imminent! Pray for the dev to send an army of tec based mobs that will punish those sinners!

[Macman]

To the cast master race's human/newman slaves, have hope! Your freedom might be imminent! Pray for the dev to send an army of tec based mobs that will punish those sinners!

An army of tech based mobs that use their ATP in their tech damage formula again. :disapprove:

[pikachief]

I think with casts being TEH MASTAR RACE D: that they should balance it out by giving everyone the racial specials that PSU the races when PSU was released ;)


lol

[Spellbinder]

Maybe its just me, but I have a bad feeling that the three types of defense, or perhaps the distinction between melee and ranged damage (striking / range) could prove problematic down the road.

[Slidikins]

Having multiple defenses isn't a problem in design, but in execution can go poorly.

Look at the current (and previous) iteration of Dungeons and Dragons. You have Armor Class (pretty much raw, physical defense in armor), Fortitude (defense in physical health), Reflex (evasion defense), and Will (mental defense).

Brute monsters tends to attack your AC with swords whereas casters attack your reflex or will with magic. Ranged creatures also attack your reflex with projectiles. Simplifying it a bit and renaming here and there and you have a very similar system in concept. And that concept works fairly well in D&D and other RPGs.

[Cayenne]

What you're saying is all classes will have their own advantages over what type of attack?

So forces will be able to handle different enemies better than rangers and hunters? If that's true then I welcome that.

[Kent]

What you're saying is all classes will have their own advantages over what type of attack?

So forces will be able to handle different enemies better than rangers and hunters? If that's true then I welcome that.
Such a thing would make it fall in line with almost literally every other RPG ever, where characters that are more magically-oriented have naturally-better defenses against magic-type attacks (and are naturally very soft and squishy when it comes to getting punched).

If worked out properly, this could mean that the arrogant mindless robots could actually get shut down pretty readily by technique-using enemies, whereas frilly Newman Forces could end up dying to a light kick to the shins... And then a more balanced human could end up having well-rounded defenses as well as offenses in more cases (that is, leaning toward the middle-ground within a respective class, rather than leaning toward an extreme).

[Slidikins]

What you're saying is all classes will have their own advantages over what type of attack?

So forces will be able to handle different enemies better than rangers and hunters? If that's true then I welcome that.Pretty much. Adding more variation to the players also adds variation to the monsters. It's often overlooked that PCs and NPCs run off the same system.

I can't say that CASTs aren't mastar race without seeing the implementation, but I won't call it a doomed system. I have a bunch of ideas of how it'd work swimming in my head, but it's not a fleshed out design. My main concern is why it'd do to Forces. Currently Forces are concerned with what element a creature is weak to. If they have to also be concerned with how much flat magic resistance the creature has as well, it could get frustrating.

[unicorn]

as long as I can be a FOcaseal (and play it without the gimp stats that are in PSU) or a HUnewm (without the gimp stats that are in PSU) then I'll be fine.

I think all races should do all types with proficiency (not equal stats, but the differences should be small not HUGE).





and FOcaseal is flawless and should not be burdened with craptacular stats. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/superkirby/blowsmoke-1.gif

[Enforcer MKV]

and FOcaseal is flawless and should not be burdened with craptacular stats. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/superkirby/blowsmoke-1.gif

I dunno, I think the base parts lacking real feet is a little bit of a design oversight. :-P

Huzzah for mods!

[Tetsaru]

In terms of balancing, perhaps they could incorporate different attacking animations based on race, gender, and weapon/attack type. HUnewearls could probably be really badass with weapons like daggers and wired lances. Casts could handle heavier gun weapons like cannons more easily, while Humans and Newmans might get some sort of recoil effect while firing them that pushes them back or throws off their aim if fired continuously... something like that. Hell, they could even bring back stuff like the old RAmarl gangsta' style handgun firing, or kicking to cast techs with dual mechguns equipped. :wacko:


I dunno, I think the base parts lacking real feet is a little bit of a design oversight. :-P

Huzzah for mods!

Ehh, hasn't been the first time it's been done for mecha-style characters. Remember an old N64 game called Mischief Makers? Marina Liteyears had the same kind of design:

[spoiler-box]http://i55.tinypic.com/72zxpi.jpg[/spoiler-box]

Zone of the Enders also had a lot of "peg leg" designs. Take Anubis, for example (warning - big image is big):

[spoiler-box]http://images.wikia.com/zoe/images/0/09/ZOE2Anubis.jpg[/spoiler-box]

[pikachief]

You guys are acting as if Magic and Physical defense and offense is new to Phantasy Star.

PSU had this it was called TP and MST. TP= Magic Attack MST = Magic Defense.

The only real difference is that there will be offensive and defensive ranged stats now.

[Omega-z]

I don't like the idea of Cast's being the weakest one's to Tech Damage, Using Tech's is a different story and understand. But resistance to Tech's should be better then a normal Human. And with the new stat's Cast's should be weak to Ranged attacks. That and Human's should not be a Neutral Balanced race any more and have a Extreme of there own to be truly balanced. With the new stats I already figured out how they could do it, But they won't and won't be Balanced at all. So expect the same old thing, Or no to little difference at all with race/gender.

[Enforcer MKV]

Ehh, hasn't been the first time it's been done for mecha-style characters.

Ah, I know. But I've yet to find a use of that design that I like. Just saying. Personal preference, and all that, ya know? :P

[Angelo]

That and Human's should not be a Neutral Balanced race any more and have a Extreme of there own to be truly balanced.

In PSPortable Human's forte was Defense. It kind of gave them this feeling that they were the most 'determined' of the races. I really liked that.

[Spellbinder]

You guys are acting as if Magic and Physical defense and offense is new to Phantasy Star.

PSU had this it was called TP and MST. TP= Magic Attack MST = Magic Defense.

The only real difference is that there will be offensive and defensive ranged stats now.

Magic and physical defense is not new, this is true. It just seems like taking the physical and breaking that up even further (melee defense and ranged defense) just seems like a bit much. That's just my opinion though. :)

[Dinosaur]

I think it makes a lot of sense. There's such a huge focus on these three types of attacks so its only fair that they get their own individual stats. It also helps differentiate various class stats and strays a tad bit away from Cast-master-race kinda things.

[Kent]

In terms of balancing, perhaps they could incorporate different attacking animations based on race, gender, and weapon/attack type. HUnewearls could probably be really badass with weapons like daggers and wired lances. Casts could handle heavier gun weapons like cannons more easily, while Humans and Newmans might get some sort of recoil effect while firing them that pushes them back or throws off their aim if fired continuously... something like that. Hell, they could even bring back stuff like the old RAmarl gangsta' style handgun firing, or kicking to cast techs with dual mechguns equipped. :wacko:
I actually rather liked the fact that different characters would have different animations for weapon types. It actually makes sense, considering that the purpose of having multiple weapon types is that they are used differently from one another, and the fact that different characters used weapons in a different manner from each other (in some cases) added weight to the decision of what weapon to apply where.

In PSO, female characters were actually slightly better at using sword-type weapons, due to their animation putting them at a defensive advantage. Similarly, male characters had a slightly better doublesaber animation due to the fact that it ended in a backstep, rather than remaining neutral. The majority of weapon types used "neutral" animations in them for everyone, and only rarely did an abnormal animation set stand out as decisively-superior (like the FOmarl's Slicer animation). I would say at the very least, an animation set with similar-enough timing but different actual animations could add some much-needed flavor to the game.

Of course, as per usual, that will always end in some vapid extremist foaming at the mouth over how any diversity between character type X and character type Y is *-ist and wrong and so forth.

Marina Liteyears
Shake shake.

Zone of the Enders
Androids need cockpits.

[Macman]

This isnt the first time they have differentiated between melee and ranged defenses. PSZ also had melee, ranged, and elemental defenses applied to every monster in the game

[Omega-z]

How I would see it now(just idea) is for Cast (Basing off there natural class) and making things easier.
CAST (Ranger)

StrPow - Mid StrDef - High
RanPow - High RanDef - Low
TechPow - Low TechDef - Mid

*Now keep in mind other classes will raise or lower the stats/grade of this,That also you could only use the TechPow unless you combined it with a Force Sub-class or was a Force at the start.( can show it by numbers too for all three classes for all three races too If you would prefer that?)

Human (Hunter)

StrPow - High StrDef - Mid
RanPow - Low RanDef - High
TechPow - Mid TechDef - Low

Neuman (Force)

StrPow - Low StrDef - Low
RanPow - Mid RanDef - Mid
TechPow - High TechDef - High

Now The Ability Part could be off there classes for 1-10pt of skill level Ex. ( CAST = (Hunter/6),(Ranger/8 ),(Force/4) ).

Now there would be Racial bonuses Cast = Higher HP/ ReganPow, Human = Higher PP/ ReganPow, Neuman = Higher TP/ ReganPow.

There would be Gender bonuses too Males = Better StrPow,StrDef,TechPow with faster Regan in there Racial Traits. Female = Better RanPow,RanDef,TechDef with a Higher amount of each of there Racial Traits.

Now limits are in place for the amount of HP,TP and PP according to there use....etc.

Mag's do Increase Stat's but only +/-10%, Weapons/Unit...Etc. Increase By +/-2 to 5%

I think that will do for now since it can be deeper then this and think both EVP and PVP(if this ever happens), What are your thoughts, comments, concerns.:):rappy:

[Norco]

@Omega-z: Normally would not Females get more TechPow then Males? Thats how it have been in the previous games at least.

[Slidikins]

@Omega-z: Normally would not Females get more TechPow then Males? Thats how it have been in the previous games at least.It's hard to say, since the different classes got passive bonuses per tech that made those MST differences minute.

I'm not going to check, but even if FOnewearl had more MST than FOnewm, that guy could nuke just about everything with a 30% boost to attack spells.

(Also I lied and checked, FOnewearls MST is about 250 higher than FOnewms, but she lacks the 30% boost to Gi and Ra-level techs, which would effectively make FOnewms base MST 1950 while using those techs... or something)

[Fenn777]

I'm not sure how I feel about having "Range Power." I get differing between the three defenses, since you're going to need different armor and endurance to withstand a slash, a bullet impact, and a tech impact. But power? How does one's natural ability make a photon gun deal more damage?

I'm not gonna be upset if they keep it in, but removing the stat would increase the differences between classes. Melee fighters would have to consider natural power, while gun users are more dependant on their weapon in combat.

Then again, getting rid of the stat completely means anyone can deal the same damage with guns. Perhaps make the Range power only affect the damage dealt from critical hits/headshots/whatever they're calling it in PSO2, so Rangers with good aim are more lethal win guns than Hunters?

[Slidikins]

But power? How does one's natural ability make a photon gun deal more damage?Since I'm referenced other systems in the past, I might as well continue with the analogy:

Melee Power = Strength
Ranged Power = Accuracy

At this point I've actually forgotten what the new player stats are but lets just say Ranged Power is accuracy. A Hunter may not be as trained with a gun and shoots a monster. It hits the monster in the shoulder or foot. Does damage, yes, but it's arguably not that great.

A Ranger is one with his gun and takes aim. Hits the monster dead in the chest or head. Much more effective at killing from afar. That's how natural ability makes a gun deal more damage.



Then again, getting rid of the stat completely means anyone can deal the same damage with guns. Perhaps make the Range power only affect the damage dealt from critical hits/headshots/whatever they're calling it in PSO2, so Rangers with good aim are more lethal win guns than Hunters?This would be another application of the same concept, yes. It would just be turning accuracy into overall crit chance as opposed to power.

[•Col•]

I'm not sure how I feel about having "Range Power." I get differing between the three defenses, since you're going to need different armor and endurance to withstand a slash, a bullet impact, and a tech impact. But power? How does one's natural ability make a photon gun deal more damage?

Well in previous games, damage for ranged weapons was determined by your Strength (doesn't make any sense whatsoever) and Accuracy stats. Since there isn't an accuracy stat in the game.......... Just pretend the Range Power stat is basically your precision/aiming while shooting. D: The more you practice with a gun, the more accurate your shots are.

There's your BS excuse.

EDIT: Ninja'd with the same type of response..... ಠ_ಠ

[Alisha]

Except the developers suck at balancing. Taking away ATA and EVP gives them less stats to botch up with. Besides this is an ARPG, manually aiming your attacks and evading the enemy's should fall under the Action part.

Unless by "balance" you meant "uniqueness", in which case you make it sound like the only difference between the six different Hunters are their ATA and EVP, that when you take those two stats away everything will be similar.

im more talking the relationship between atp and ata. higher atp races generaly have lower ata. by taking ata away the only way to balance it out is by making casts glass cannons like dewmans. you also get a situation where males are better at everything that isnt force :(

[PlinderD]

im more talking the relationship between atp and ata. higher atp races generaly have lower ata. by taking ata away the only way to balance it out is by making casts glass cannons like dewmans. you also get a situation where males are better at everything that isnt force :(

Then they will find another way to differentiate high ATP and low ATP classes.

You make it sound like the developers of PSO2 are incapable of thinking outside the ATP-ATA design scale.

And again, the various developers of the many PSO games have failed balancing things properly. There'll always be a race, a gender, or even a class that'll be overall better. This is fine, as long as it won't be impossible for the crappier classes to get through the game (given reasonable situations) and that the superior classes aren't too overpowered. Even the latter is fine to some degree if the history of the PSO franchise is any indiciation of it.


I'm not sure how I feel about having "Range Power." I get differing between the three defenses, since you're going to need different armor and endurance to withstand a slash, a bullet impact, and a tech impact. But power? How does one's natural ability make a photon gun deal more damage?

If I give guns to a normal built sharpshooter and to a muscle bound freak whose never even shot a gun in his life who do you think will hit a target at 600 paces better?

"MY MUSCLES MAKE BULLETS FLY TO TARGET"

Besides this makes far more sense on a gameplay level It'll reduce the chances that the developers overlook some other thing that'll result in Hunters outperformming Rangers with guns.

[Fenn777]

Since I'm referenced other systems in the past, I might as well continue with the analogy:

Melee Power = Strength
Ranged Power = Accuracy

At this point I've actually forgotten what the new player stats are but lets just say Ranged Power is accuracy. A Hunter may not be as trained with a gun and shoots a monster. It hits the monster in the shoulder or foot. Does damage, yes, but it's arguably not that great.

A Ranger is one with his gun and takes aim. Hits the monster dead in the chest or head. Much more effective at killing from afar. That's how natural ability makes a gun deal more damage.

This would make sense in a former PSO that only used auto-aim. But now we ARE the ranger. That just makes even less sense


This would be another application of the same concept, yes. It would just be turning accuracy into overall crit chance as opposed to power.

Not exactly. Here, Range Power does not equal accuracy or Crit chance, but crit damage. So you must aim well to get the critical, usually a headshot if I watched the alpha footage right. (I know it isn't random like PSO). But with Rangers, getting that crit adds far more damage than it would for a Hunter.

[Omega-z]

That's true Norco, that Females do/did have higher Tech but in PSO like Slidikins said the FoNewm would be stronger. And also to bring in more Newm use to the game.

here's a chart of a possible set up for PSO2 Maybec lol

HP - the amount of Health Points - At "0" player incap.
PP - the amount of Power Points - PA's, Special Bullet's only
TP - the amount of Technic Points - Technic's only
StrPow - the amount of Brute Power/Striking Equip./SE rate (Striking)
StrDef - the amount of Reduced Brute Power/SE rate (Striking)
RanPow - the amount of Bullet Power/Ranged Equip./SE rate (Ranged)
RanDef - the amount of Reduced Bullet Power/SE rate (Ranged)
TechPow - the amount of Technic Power/Technic Equip./SE rate (Technic)
TechDef - the amount of Reduced Brute Power/SE rate (Technic)
Sk/Ab/Pro - the amount of Attacking Speed/Defensive Speed/Armor Equip.


- Lv1 - (HU Type )
Race/Cls HP PP TP StrPow StrDef RanPow RanDef TechPow TechDef Sk/Ab/Pro
HuMr 210 125 100* 98 92 72 89 78* 72 89
HuMl 208 150 102* 94 89 74 91 77* 74 91
HuNm 196 105 112* 84 86 76 82 83* 81 97
HuNl 193 110 120* 82 84 78 84 82* 84 99
HuCt 221 98 88* 91 99 81 79 73* 77 86
HuCl 230 100 94* 88 96 82 81 72* 80 88

- Lv1 - (RA Type )
Race/Cls HP PP TP StrPow StrDef RanPow RanDef TechPow TechDef Sk/Ab/Pro
RaMr 189 100 50* 89 84 83 96 81* 75 80
RaMl 186 125 53* 84 82 87 99 80* 79 83
RaNm 178 86 68* 78 77 89 89 86* 87 86
RaNl 173 90 75* 76 75 92 92 84* 91 88
RaCt 194 78 38* 87 90 95 79 77* 82 73
RaCl 202 82 41* 82 85 99 83 75* 85 77

- Lv1 - (FO Type )
Race/Cls HP PP TP StrPow StrDef RanPow RanDef TechPow TechDef Sk/Ab/Pro
FoMr 164 75 110 85 80 77 83 89 80 84
FoMl 159 100 130 82 77 79 85 87 83 86
FoNm 153 50 160 75 74 85 78 99 96 89
FoNl 150 55 200 72 72 83 80 97 99 92
FoCt 175 40 100 80 86 87 72 85 85 80
FoCl 186 45 120 78 82 89 75 83 87 82

*note* - with Sub-Class

Thoughts?:):rappy:

Edit: sorry about the smashed numbers for some reason it's not bringing up the post correctly, Tried to fix it with the Humar as an ex-sample to show.:(

[Alisha]

Then they will find another way to differentiate high ATP and low ATP classes.

You make it sound like the developers of PSO2 are incapable of thinking outside the ATP-ATA design scale.

And again, the various developers of the many PSO games have failed balancing things properly. There'll always be a race, a gender, or even a class that'll be overall better. This is fine, as long as it won't be impossible for the crappier classes to get through the game (given reasonable situations) and that the superior classes aren't too overpowered. Even the latter is fine to some degree if the history of the PSO franchise is any indiciation of it.



If I give guns to a normal built sharpshooter and to a muscle bound freak whose never even shot a gun in his life who do you think will hit a target at 600 paces better?

"MY MUSCLES MAKE BULLETS FLY TO TARGET"

Besides this makes far more sense on a gameplay level It'll reduce the chances that the developers overlook some other thing that'll result in Hunters outperformming Rangers with guns.

well at the very least i think they need to change the stats to be more like portable 2 and have humans have the highest def/mnd an average race isnt as good as it used to be in pso where hybrid were desirable.

[Omega-z]

Alisha in my mock up version I made Humans have the Highest Def to Ranged attack and very high Def to Striking attack. That too they have the Highest Striking Power.

[Macman]

Edit: sorry about the smashed numbers for some reason it's not bringing up the post correctly, Tried to fix it with the Humar as an ex-sample to show.:(

Use the [ CODE ] tag to make it easier to line up text for tables.

[Omega-z]

Thank You Macman for the help:) Here's an updated Mock up possible (Maybec) list of stats.


HP - the amount of Health Points - At "0" player incap.
PP - the amount of Power Points - PA's, Special Bullet's only
TP - the amount of Technic Points - Technic's only
StrPow - the amount of Brute Power/Striking Equip./SE rate (Striking)
StrDef - the amount of Reduced Brute Power/SE rate (Striking)
RanPow - the amount of Bullet Power/Ranged Equip./SE rate (Ranged)
RanDef - the amount of Reduced Bullet Power/SE rate (Ranged)
TechPow - the amount of Technic Power/Technic Equip./SE rate (Technic)
TechDef - the amount of Reduced Brute Power/SE rate (Technic)
Sk/Ab/Pro - the amount of Attacking Speed/Defensive Speed/Armor Equip.(Armor could go off Char. Lv too)



- Lv1 - (HU Type )
Race/Cls HP PP TP StrPow StrDef RanPow RanDef TechPow TechDef Sk/Ab/Pro
HuMr 210 125 100* 98 92 72 89 78* 72 89
HuMl 208 150 102* 94 89 74 91 77* 74 91
HuNm 196 105 112* 84 86 76 82 83* 81 97
HuNl 193 110 120* 82 84 78 84 82* 84 99
HuCt 221 98 88* 91 99 81 79 73* 77 86
HuCl 230 100 94* 88 96 82 81 72* 80 88

- Lv1 - (RA Type )
Race/Cls HP PP TP StrPow StrDef RanPow RanDef TechPow TechDef Sk/Ab/Pro
RaMr 189 100 50* 89 84 83 96 81* 75 80
RaMl 186 125 53* 84 82 87 99 80* 79 83
RaNm 178 86 68* 78 77 89 89 86* 87 86
RaNl 173 90 75* 76 75 92 92 84* 91 88
RaCt 194 78 38* 87 90 95 79 77* 82 73
RaCl 202 82 41* 82 85 99 83 75* 85 77

- Lv1 - (FO Type )
Race/Cls HP PP TP StrPow StrDef RanPow RanDef TechPow TechDef Sk/Ab/Pro
FoMr 164 75 110 85 80 77 83 89 80 84
FoMl 159 100 130 82 77 79 85 87 83 86
FoNm 153 50 160 75 74 85 78 99 96 89
FoNl 150 55 200 72 72 83 80 97 99 92
FoCt 175 40 100 80 86 87 72 85 85 80
FoCl 186 45 120 78 82 89 75 83 87 82

note * - with Sub-Class

Thoughts?:rappy: