restrictive start

[bakewell123]

hello just wanna see your thoughts on this,

do you think when pso2 launches it will have alot of restrictions (not in a bad way) like psu did when that wass launched, for example lv50 was the cap, b rank weps were the highest and only a few missions.

i would like this to be honest so the majority of people wouldnt be miles ahead of me if i didnt get the game right away :P. this might actually make the community bond better due to the fact that everyone would be on the same wave length, if u know what i mean. this would also allow them to release new content which isnt new, for example they would have made it but had it locked again like psu and moatoob.

yeah so what do u think, do you think sega will restrict the inital launch and would you prefer it if they did?

btw hello im new to the forum :)

[NoiseHERO]

I don't think it's a TERRIBLE idea... but I think it'd mostly what Online Games that don't have a lot of content do in general to keep their players tame.

Instead of actually having a good game with lot of content to do that job for them.

And them bringing it back in PSO2 will probably irrationally piss a lot of people off. Of course this is mostly like one of many things they already learned their lesson from, but this being a PC game there's no where to go but up. So who know's where they're start.

I just hope we're getting everything they planned to make which I think they would... I think... Instead of giving us 25% of an unfinished game like they did PSU. and by the time they get close to making the game it should've been when it came out. Everyone's already sick of anything good it had to offer(As in PSU did have good parts even though it wasn't PSO. Just saying, before this thread becomes a "WHY PSU SUCKED 100%" fest) after playing for 3-5 years.

[bakewell123]

i guess your right, i think maybe instead of confining a player, they should just expand on a finished game, i also think the problem i had with psu is there are no noobs, i am going to admit im pretty nooby, i have played for like 3 weeks, i played the demo from 2007 til death dont say "wow u must of loved doing nothing", its the noobs that keep people playing imo, when people have no one to brag to, when people have no one new to meet, when people have no one to help, the game just becomes boring, no matter how much new content comes out, the player makes the game so the game can make the player, but i think now for the pantasy star series thats been and gone and everone goes straight to the top, like psu, and there is no noobs to play wiht noobs.

i know from experience noobs dont want endless freebies, they dont want money, they dont want to hit a monster once that would oneshot them if a level 100+ kills it, they (me) just want someone on there par to play with, play against, have fun with and learn with.

[Mag-X]

The original PSO never had locked content like PSU did, so hopefully they don't do it this time around. I think a lot of that had to do with the PS2 not having a hard drive, so in order to make it look like they were adding new content, they would simply unlock stuff (which fooled no one).

We probably won't get access to everything right away, but I doubt it'll be as locked down as PSU was. At least this time, if stuff isn't available yet, I'll have reason to believe they haven't actually made it yet.

[Dre_o]

Hmm...it is a conundrum.. one one hand: I don't think its wise to keep a lot of the game under lock and key just to release snips of it at a time (don't you DARE "release" 4 "expansions" Sega). But on the other hand: I also don't think it wise to have EVERYTHING available at the start because all the "hard core 1337 RPG gamers" will be bored and bitching within 2 weeks (not like that won't happen anyways but I can dream).

But I suppose all this hinges on how they plan to work community content into the game. Will they release the modeling tools to the public (See: Team Fortress 2 and Hammer)? Or will they simply be "taking suggestions and sketches" for weapons and areas. If they do the former rather than the latter, I GUARANTEE they will have more content than they could ever implement into the game.

All we can do is wait and see.

[Kion]

Depends, PSU wasn't a bad idea necessarily just a HORRIBLE execution. It did keep everyone in the one place, so you had parties, it was pretty easy to maintain mulitple characters. I tried starting fresh on the JP server but there was too much stuff and too few low level characters to actually run with; so I wouldn't mind if they keep it limited to some degree as long as they update and keep the content coming at a decent pace, and unlock ALL of the content with in a decent period of time.

[Legato Bluesummers]

No thanks.

The horribly restrictive start PSU had was the main reason for its less-than-stellar critical reception which in turn probably contributed somewhat to the low population.

PSO2 better start out with a decent amount of stuff to do.

[Mike]

Well, PSO2 only has an online mode so you won't know if the online version will start like PSU's did or not.

[Tetsaru]

What Mike said. With PSU, there was always the issue of "why is this offline content that's always been here not available online yet." I specifically remember not getting a Killer Elite until after Sega announced that they were closing down the PC/PS2 servers and I only got back on after quitting because they made it free-to-play, yet one of the stupid loli-bot PM's could wield one months before it was actually released for players to use. That, and the Japanese servers getting waaaay ahead of us didn't help either... :rolleyes:

While it'd be nice if an offline mode was announced, at the same time, we wouldn't have to worry about running into this problem again if it was strictly an online game. So I guess it boils down to whether the developers want to have an offline mode available for the game so people can play whenever they want, or devote more of their resources towards a possibly more fulfilling online multiplayer experience with more content overall.

[Kent]

Ideally, they'd start out by releasing an entire game's worth of content, and expand on it over time. This is not what happened with PSU, because even if you didn't do anything offline, you could tell that there was a lot of crap on the disc that they had not started letting you access, just because of how little content there actually was.

So instead of doing something moronic like starting with only low-rank weapons and a handful of areas being accessible at all like in PSU, they should have an entire 100 levels' worth of content available from the get-go, and then add on whole episodes afterward that are roughly the same amount of content (though these could individually see a staggered release, so it's chunkier but more often updates, rather than one absolutely massive update every year or so).

There's kind of a problem with a lot of online "action" games nowadays, where they're launching with a rather small amount of content, and players that genuinely enjoy the game end up getting to the end of said content before the updates start happening... So they just stop playing. It's best to avoid that.

[Slidikins]

Restrictive start were reasons I quit both PSU and Vindictus. Ultimate Mode wasn't originally in PSO but the game held its own without it fine. Hitting the level cap and dicking around waiting for the next boost is frustrating, boring, and intolerable if I'm paying a subscription.

[NoiseHERO]

Restrictive start were reasons I quit both PSU and Vindictus. Ultimate Mode wasn't originally in PSO but the game held its own without it fine. Hitting the level cap and dicking around waiting for the next boost is frustrating, boring, and intolerable if I'm paying a subscription.

Yeah you kind of forget that you're paying 10 dollars a month for only 25% of a game...

That's like a 450 dollar game over the course of three years. Then another 2-3 years being a content drought. So it's like you're paying 810 bucks for like half a game by the time you get to where PSU is today. Assuming you've been paying since day one and bought both the original and expansion. D8

Sure you're paying for the online service, but updates to the game should be apart of that! AND IF ALL THE UPDATES ARE COMING FROM THE DISC...!!

Such an evil and corrupted scam.

[kyuuketsuki]

But I suppose all this hinges on how they plan to work community content into the game. Will they release the modeling tools to the public (See: Team Fortress 2 and Hammer)?
... What "community content"? There are not going to be any tools for people to add their own models, maps, or anything to the game. Unless I missed something.

Ideally, they'd start out by releasing an entire game's worth of content, and expand on it over time. This is not what happened with PSO2 [...]
I think you mean PSU, not PSO2. ;)

[Caerik]

I'm not sure if I'd get PSO2 if it came out with content locked. That would be ridiculous. Like Rock said it would be paying an obscene price for only a small amount of a game. No, thank you for that idea.

Hopefully we will get a full game's worth of content and then it is built upon by updates, not just re-skins and unlocking of content.

[Dre_o]

... What "community content"? There are not going to be any tools for people to add their own models, maps, or anything to the game. Unless I missed something.

I think you mean PSU, not PSO2. ;)

To quote the PSO2 Information Thread (sticky):
"# Community supported content (obscured)"

It could mean a couple of things, but community created content is most likely (at least to me).

[•Col•]

Honestly I wouldn't be COMPLETELY surprised if they let people create their own missions... All you'd have to do is choose from a list of generic objectives like "Kill _____", "Get to _____", or "Find _____"... Then choose an area, and populate it with the monsters you want.

Of course they would probably have to approve of the missions or monitor them or something, otherwise people would create missions with 1000 of a single enemy so they could get an item they want... Or make it extremely easy to get a lot of exp to level up fast. But I think it could work out.

[Dre_o]

Honestly I wouldn't be COMPLETELY surprised if they let people create their own missions... All you'd have to do is choose from a list of generic objectives like "Kill _____", "Get to _____", or "Find _____"... Then choose an area, and populate it with the monsters you want.

Of course they would probably have to approve of the missions or monitor them or something, otherwise people would create missions with 1000 of a single enemy so they could get an item they want... Or make it extremely easy to get a lot of exp to level up fast. But I think it could work out.

Perhaps. But I'd be far more interested in community created weapon and environment models, which is by no means out of the question.
(No more going off topic for me)

[lostinseganet]

Resturct leveling but do not restrict game content. Barring people from playing motoob in psu was angering for paying to play a game.

[amtalx]

It's extremely unlikely that the level cap at release will be the final level cap. However, it's very important to have enough end game content to keep hardcore players satisfied. Intentionally holding back players is frustrating to players that bank a lot of hours. Players that run out of content move on to other games. That is the last thing a publisher wants.

[ForceOfBrokenGlass]

Restricting advancement and content early on is only going to produce the "stop and go" usership of PSU isn't it? People play through to the highest level at the time, get through the new quests, then get bored and quit till next update day, all the while having to pay monthly for those gaps in activity. That doesn't sound palatable at all.

I tend toward pessimism quite too often to believe Sega would go the route of making all their updates be content that they only recently put together and added to the game data on update day. Either way, I doubt it would encourage user bonding.

I haven't played many ORPGs but in the few I've managed to play, people who are "Miles ahead" often get there as a result of longer playtimes. Now if PSO2 is successful, new people should be sifting in every so often anyway.

I remember when I played Monster Hunter 3, people were never seeing eye to eye despite there being not that much content and a steep divide due to the existence of High Rank. It was all either, groups of friends reporting their great successes or failures, or long rants about the idiot n00bs in pick up games.

[•Col•]

I remember when I played Monster Hunter 3, people were never seeing eye to eye despite there being not that much content and a steep divide due to the existence of High Rank. It was all either, groups of friends reporting their great successes or failures, or long rants about the idiot n00bs in pick up games.

The thing with MH3 is that it really does only take 1 person to completely fail a mission for a team.

That just isn't really possible to do in the PSO/U series.... I mean yeah, they can slow you down and perhaps lower your score, but you never have to worry about someone completely squandering 30 minutes of play time EVERY single time you do a mission.

[Hatemachine]

While I don't really want the limitations akin to the level of PSU, I could understand if they DID do something like that, In the early days of PSU I didn't play to "Farm for weapons" or "Grind for EXP" I played because I enjoyed the game, and liked just messing around or helping out new players who were able to benefit from said enjoyment, and during that time I met great people who were a gas to play with that I ended up playing the game with clear till I quit playing after about 3 years total game time.

Overall it made the experience easier at the start as I accrued a running crew of like minded individuals, then after the content started getting released, and the level caps started going up, the Greed began to flow, the discrimination about class, race, weapons went from jokes to people being serious about it, and the barren wastelands that were unprofitable missions began to take shape.

In the long run the early limitations were a harsh, but necessary element to the game for me due in no small part to the fact that the limitations weeded out the Majority of people who WERE greedy myopic, jerks as there was nothing to be greedy ABOUT! lol.

It kept the people who genuinely enjoyed the game PLAYING the game and kept the people who enjoyed Social interaction, as again there was little else to motivate people to play together, however I am pretty certain my example puts me in the minority here, I just hope I have the same luck I had with PSU as I managed to meet some great people during my time.

[therealAERO]

To those saying PSO never restricted content well no it didn't, not really, for japan anyway. It did take a very long time to get the massive amount of content that was in Ep 1 and 2 and Blueburst however.

Sega is playing with fire a bit here. If there is too much content I feel like they are going to alienate players a bit and spread out the player areas. Provided the game is like PSU. On the other hand if it's like PSO and has a counter that lets you see all of those who are playing that would be a good solution. I wish we could have large areas to explore and what not but history has shown it doesn't quite workout the way intended.

However I think the best possible solution is to have multiple areas as well as planets to explore and have all the mission counters linked up globally.

That way you could have pockets of community based on preference for the scenery and locale and still be able to jump into all missions across the entirety of PSO2.

If this is the approach Sega takes it would be possible to never leave your favorite planet or area(outside of social reason) and still be able to play every mission with all the players in your server.

The only downside is you'll actually have to travel to different planets to meet up with these community pockets. Is that a down side?

[Tetsaru]

I dunno about you guys, but I personally prefer huge open worlds. PSU had several problems with this:

1 - "Exploring" consisted of lobbies that had no benefits of exploration. Sure, you could run around and say, "oh that looks cool," but other than do missions or buy that convenient stack of Scape Dolls so you could never die, there was no point to them. I remember how a friend of mine was originally psyched to hear that there were multiple planets you could "explore," but got really disappointed when all they consisted of were lobbies, lobbies, lobbies, all with the same exact things, save for aesthetic differences.

2 - To progress to other areas, you had to go through instanced missions that were repetitive, predictable, often routine and annoying (especially if you were hunting a boss drop), and almost always consisted of "kill everything and get to the end." Because of this, areas were not seamless, and there was no sense of immersion or purpose. Also, it made most areas feel linear instead of open-ended, hence everyone always doing time attack runs and zerging their way to the end because there's hardly any variation, other than some of the event missions, which still recycled a lot of old maps due to PS2 hardware constraints and Sega being too stupid and lazy to do anything about it.

3 - Areas were not balanced or arranged in terms of content, and there was always a "flavor of the month," or several months in our case. Sure, you could go to any mission you wanted to, but there was no sense of logical progression. There was no designated level 25-30 area, etc., so players could just easily go to the best areas and skip everything else. Why go to the HIVE missions when White Beast is a lot easier AND gives you much better exp and loot? I understand wanting to level up fast and get good equipment, but in doing so, there's no journey involved, no actual long-term experience to playing the game. That, and you don't get the proper time to learn how to play your character and his/her job and moves, thus resulting in more players that don't know wtf they're doing, more elitist players getting pissed off and kicking them from parties, and eventually the newer players leave due to a seemingly bad community and lack of things to do.

4 - There were no NPC's other than the ones in shops, etc. I remember there were NPC's in offline PSU... why not online too?? There are so many things that could've been done with them. All I remember is the shitty "ghost" NPC's that filled the Colony, and they would disappear once you approached them... they were like those lifeless, grayed-out characters you often see in anime and manga in city scenes that are just there to give a sense of busyness alongside the main characters and plotline. Even though it plays out like one, PSU is not an anime, Sega... :disapprove:

Now, take that ruined city area we've seen from the PSO2 footage. Now, imagine it on the scale of something from GTA, or Arkham City. I would LOVE to be able to infiltrate one of those buildings, use it as a sniping point, fight off monsters crawling up the sides or making their way through the way you came in, then call in an airship and fly in to assist my friends battling the boss monster and his minions on the streets. AND THAT COULD BE THE FIRST AREA. Take a long bridge on the way out of the city (that could be an area all its own) that leads into the forest areas. From there, go into the underground lava area. Next, you could find some ruins, maybe bump into Dark Falz, and he warps your ass to some trippy alternate dimension area. Then, you find a way out, and all of a sudden, you're out in space, and through some crazy cutscenes, you end up on the outside of the Pioneer ship defending it against some aliens that are attempting to tear it apart. All that, AND YOU HAVEN'T EVEN SET FOOT ON A SECOND PLANET YET. These are all just ideas off the top of my head too - there's SO much Sega could do with this... and yet they never do... :(

[therealAERO]

lol I was still thinking in the realms of a natural evolution to PSO. You are going way off track...and I like it.

You are right PSU had zero sense of progression (online) On the other hand I absolutely loved the offline game.

However with PSO it was clear that EP 2 you would get your ass handed to you below level 20 (in most cases) I liked that they let you go to Ep2 right from character creation.

Anyway it was simple and concise.

Forest
Caves
Mines
Ruins

Increase in difficulty linearly as well as complexity. Oh and obviously the higher difficulty you were would play a part in which is tougher. Once again it's clear that Forest on Normal is easier than it is on Hard.

[PlinderD]

If SEGA wants the low level experience to be good then they should do it without limiting game content

That's what advertising, actual low level in-game content, and making an overall good game that people talk about so the low level population doesn't dwindle away. Taking the easy way out by limiting game content is just annoying, and a show of laziness on SEGA's part.

Not everyone will rush to the end game, not if the early game is really worth playing. And limiting the end game just to cater to a few people who want a community that's forced to play a low level game is just silly.

[pikachief]

lol I was still thinking in the realms of a natural evolution to PSO. You are going way off track...and I like it.

You are right PSU had zero sense of progression (online) On the other hand I absolutely loved the offline game.

However with PSO it was clear that EP 2 you would get your ass handed to you below level 20 (in most cases) I liked that they let you go to Ep2 right from character creation.

Anyway it was simple and concise.

Forest
Caves
Mines
Ruins

Increase in difficulty linearly as well as complexity. Oh and obviously the higher difficulty you were would play a part in which is tougher. Once again it's clear that Forest on Normal is easier than it is on Hard.


This! I really hope PSO2 has progression. Like, "oh look i finally have the levels/equipment to run this mission! Lets do this!" Not, "Hey lets just play this mission C-S3 because its the mission ever and we never have to leave it."