the concept of running to increase gameplay, in a negative way

[soulpimpwizzurd]

wow is a huge heinous bastard about this, just to give you an example of what i mean.

i was watching steparu play through the volcano stage and there were some times where he's running around for at least 2-3 minutes without doing anything but running. either that or it takes ~30 seconds or a little while to reach the next mob spawn area. i just feel like sometimes they're doing this on purpose to keep people from finishing/killing things too fast or "force" players to play longer. either that or they just want you to respect the environment they created even more by making you run everywhere.

now pso is definitely not even at the same level of travel-induced-negative-gameplay most games in general are. but like i said it's still there, and i'd prefer if they gave players an option to reduce that if they wanted to somehow.

my personal biggest gripe about point and click mmo's is the whole "travel" factor.

does this kinda thing bother anyone else?

i propose that there's some kind of faster running mode implemented in the game that has a 5 second cool down or something, so when you know you have a long distance to go you can just activate that and be on your way, but you wouldn't be able to abuse it easily for bosses to increase your mobility or what not.

[Angelo]

I can't say I was ever running to a spawn for more than like.... 40 seconds at most?
Link the video you're watching.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

it was on step's live feed/channel, was watching him play. i donno if he put it up. admittedly it was rare (the 2-3min running around), and i think he was trying to accomplish something.

--my main point is that those 20-40 second intervals kinda build up after a while, so i think giving players the option of faster movement is a good idea. either that or they can click on the area they need to go to on the map and their character will auto run to the desired destination, leaving players free to converse with their party during the travel. they can enjoy the traveling, or they can just move super fast and get from a-b.

i'm not too wigged out about it though since i'm thinking they'll make a quest similar to towards the future where it's like a boss rush, you just have to fight through one area and then you're at the boss teleport.

or they'll make quests where there's more monsters per meter in a map, and there is less distance you have to cover in general to finish the mission.

[GCoffee]

What you are talking about is bound to happen with totally randomized maps. There will be many instances where you run into a dead end and have to backtrack a huge part of the stage in order to take the other, the right path right at the beginning.

What they did in order to make that non-problematic was implenting a chance of respawning enemies upon passing a section for a second or third time. Like this you shoud not be bored in most of these cases.

That again, however, might prove problematic if one is afk and another passing party member triggers a new spawn of enemies. But I do not know if that can happen, lol.

[moorebounce]

The only time I hated running long distances in PSO was when I forgot to lay a pipe down before a battle I knew I stood a chance of losing. Man did it ever suck getting to a boss in the "Towards The Future" or "Respective Tomorrow" quests and lose only to realize you forgot to lay a pipe down.

I actually like the environments I've seen so far in PSO2, Plus the characters run or hover faster than they did in the older games.

[Enforcer MKV]

As CG already mentioned, part of the reason this issue is here is because they have a random map generator to make the replay value of missions higher. What they said was that, save for key mission landmarks, the entirety of the map is randomized, and hopefully, different each time you run the mission, therefore making things more interesting for the player.

Personally, I don't mind walking. It might seem like a bit of annoyance, but remember, often times things turn out better when playing the game than when you're watching a video, at least, that's what often happens to me when I'm on the fence about an aspect of a game I'm interested in. In terms of graphics, people are saying the game looks good, it looks bad, etc, etc. I like the scenery and plan on stopping to explore and look around, and not just fight. Just because the main point of the game is fighting and collecting better gear, doesn't mean it has to be the only thing you do in game.

Of course, this is all just how I feel. In short; I feel the cause behind the issue you have is a better trade-off. I'd rather run a little more and be in an overall different map each time then running a carbon copy over and over, even if the time between engagements is shorter in the carbon copy.

[youcantcatchtheblue]

Personally I love the way it is. Each mob is really not far at all from each other. I hardly ever notice that I'm running around with nothing to fight, so it's not like we need to travel for 10 minutes before reaching the next place of interest. I love looking at the scenery, especially when you're running over water it's so beautiful. Maybe it might get boring after the 100th time, but for now everything about the environment is pure bliss, imo. They did a really good job with the graphics without requiring a ton of horsepower.

[JC10001]

OP is definitely on to something. I've noticed the same thing myself in many, many of the alpha test videos I've watched. Seems like there is a lot of empty space.

[Dinosaur]

This is an adventure game. There will be exploration. When you play the game yourself, it's hard not to sit back and look around as the environments are pretty awesome and full of traps/hazards. You also can't forget boxes. RED BOXES EVERYWHERE.

[Serephim]

wow is a huge heinous bastard about this, just to give you an example of what i mean.

i was watching steparu play through the volcano stage and there were some times where he's running around for at least 2-3 minutes without doing anything but running. either that or it takes ~30 seconds or a little while to reach the next mob spawn area. i just feel like sometimes they're doing this on purpose to keep people from finishing/killing things too fast or "force" players to play longer. either that or they just want you to respect the environment they created even more by making you run everywhere.

now pso is definitely not even at the same level of travel-induced-negative-gameplay most games in general are. but like i said it's still there, and i'd prefer if they gave players an option to reduce that if they wanted to somehow.

my personal biggest gripe about point and click mmo's is the whole "travel" factor.

does this kinda thing bother anyone else?

i propose that there's some kind of faster running mode implemented in the game that has a 5 second cool down or something, so when you know you have a long distance to go you can just activate that and be on your way, but you wouldn't be able to abuse it easily for bosses to increase your mobility or what not.


It's fine the way it is.



I can't stress this enough after playing this Alpha test: Playing and Watching are two COOMPLLEETTELLLYYY different experiences.



Phantasy Star Online / Universe was never a fun game to watch. It's one of the most boring things on the damn planet. You will NEVER get someone into PSO by forcing them to watch, because playing is always a different story.



PSO2 is no different. Watching someone fight a boss / run through an area and actually doing it yourself are two very far removed things. I never, ever felt like i was running too long while playing the PSO2 beta, even after playing for hours when the game was actually started to get boring to me and i had to stop and go to sleep.




Please notice OP, how everyone who has played the game really has no issue with it. It's only spectators who seem to be concerned.


This goes the same with something like Ranger gameplay, where it just looks like you do nothing but fire bullets all day....well, it's true, that's all you do, but you have to actually play the game to understand how amazingly not boring or monotonous it is.

[Randomness]

This is an adventure game. There will be exploration. When you play the game yourself, it's hard not to sit back and look around as the environments are pretty awesome and full of traps/hazards. You also can't forget boxes. RED BOXES EVERYWHERE.

There needs to be a room in a map somewhere that is nothing but a carpet of red boxes (or looks like one), for the sole purpose of taunting people.

The boxes themselves, of course, contain 1 meseta each.

[Ark22]

*Remembers when I was a solo Fonewmen offline GC and I would die from a boss and have to run ALL THE WAY BACK* Yeah I like my nostalgia, let's keep it.

[Dinosaur]

*Remembers when I was a solo Fonewmen offline GC and I would die from a boss and have to run ALL THE WAY BACK* Yeah I like my nostalgia, let's keep it.

Telepipe?

TEREPAIPU

[Ark22]

See, I was gonna telepipe or Ryuker, but I got ahead of myself and just waltzed in.

[Jinketsu]

Oh man I get overconfident like that. It's especially bad in JRPGs.

"Save point? Must be a boss soon. Eh, I'm strong enough." /skipsavepoint

NOPE.

[NoiseHERO]

Oh man I get overconfident like that. It's especially bad in JRPGs.

"Save point? Must be a boss soon. Eh, I'm strong enough." /skipsavepoint

NOPE.

I NEVER do this...

"Save point? OH GOD FINALLY I GET TO PRESERVE MY PRECIOUS ITEMS AND EXP!"

Playing playstation games without a memory card. You'll never take saving for granted ever again. ;o;

[Serephim]

Oh man I get overconfident like that. It's especially bad in JRPGs.

"Save point? Must be a boss soon. Eh, I'm strong enough." /skipsavepoint

NOPE.

Yeah piggybacking off rock.


You must have never had the painful experience of having to perserve that steady flow of power to your playstation / Genesis / NES.


Beating Super Mario Bros. 3 used to be a BITCH without abusing those flutes.

[Ark22]

Lol Super Mario Land was impossible without STAR WORLD!

[Noblewine]

I don't see a problem just dash if you dislike the running speed. I disliked how slow you ran in Universe so this is an improvement since we can dash/jump now. I hope in later updates they don't do puzzels that make you run back and forth hitting switches. That drove me nuts in universe especially with how slow you ran.

[Omega-z]

Super Mario 3 & Mario Land takes about 3 - 5 hours to do with everything done, that's not hard to do other wise it take less then 15 mins to do it with the shortcuts.

[Serephim]

Universe's running was less about the speed of the characters and more about how ridiculously bland the environments were.



PSO2 encourages you to jump and explore your surroundings, so running is far less boring. It's also fun to explore environments while fighting, especially in the caves.

[tkdyo]

I dont really understand the complaint...how are you suppose to get the feeling of epic grandeur and realism of environment without having to run through some space?

Then again, I am someone who plays games for awesome environments, exploring and questing so I guess I would never get it lol.

[Finalzone]

Universe's running was less about the speed of the characters and more about how ridiculously bland the environments were.

That happens when Universe was made with Playstation 2 in mind with its limited texture memory.

[Shadownami92]

That happens when Universe was made with Playstation 2 in mind with its limited texture memory.

I would hardly use that as an excuse. While PSO's environments weren't low poly with pretty low texture resolutions, they were tons more interesting than PSU's.

If anything I would just contribute PSU's bland environments to laziness. All the rooms in each room were practically identical, there were no rooms that stood out more than others, etc.

If they added a few extra things that made the levels help tell the game's story better than maybe it would have been better. Like there was the broken ship parts in Forest 1, the Central Dome and random tech in Forest 2, the rainbow room in Caves 2, the floating jellyfish in Caves 2, the sea creatures in the view of the Seabed Lab...

You can basically go on about specific areas of the PSO environments and how they stuck out because of interesting details. Something you don't find in a single area of PSU's environments.

Furthermore limited texture memory shouldn't be that big of a deal when they can do what every other game studio does for environments which is to use various texture recycling techniques to use the same textures different ways on different meshes.

All in all the main problem was just that they were either lazy or rushed the game out way too fast.

[Dinosaur]

Play cast and hover, don't run. Or play Force and jump high in the air then chain mirage escapes.

Running problem solved.

[Vashyron]

I would hardly use that as an excuse. While PSO's environments weren't low poly with pretty low texture resolutions, they were tons more interesting than PSU's.

May I cut in and add that PSO's Forest Textures is actually higher resolution than PSU's? :wacko:

[Ark22]

Thought it was pretty neat when a party fails Code Destruction the other players can witness the effects of the changed area.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnzkP0V-Rhg&feature=related

[Shadownami92]

May I cut in and add that PSO's Forest Textures is actually higher resolution than PSU's? :wacko:

Through that quotation I also noticed that I messed up, I meant "were" not "weren't" when I was talking about it being low poly. But yeah PSU had potential that I felt it didn't meet when it came to being compared to PSO, on the bright side so far it seems like PSO2 is making the environments a lot more interesting this time around. Can't wait to see what other levels well be added!

[9898]

yeah, artificially inflated gameplay time stemming from low apm segments suck and tbh pso2 (from what ive seen) is really bad in this regard. if you like psu (basically L.O.G.I.N: The Game) then this game is your dream. dont argue that inventory management during these times where apm is nominal (running etc) is Enhancing Your Running Experience, all inv management in pso can be done in between spawns if your execution is good enough, so theres no reason you should wait for running to inv. in the end this should add to your apm during action, not after.

[•Col•]

I honestly dunno what you people are talking about. :/

The only time I ran around for an excessive time was when I entered a multiparty area and all the other teams already killed most of the enemies recently.

[ForceOfBrokenGlass]

Well you know, when something gets enough attention, it may get addressed.


Request: The quests felt like they were too long so I'd like smaller maps.
Response: We've adjusted the game so that the average quest map is smaller and takes less time to clear than before.:eek: *Drops everything and runs*

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Well you know, when something gets enough attention, it may get addressed.

:eek: *Drops everything and runs*

i feel vindicated

is this what it feels like to be right in the face of crushing adversity

@removal, fair enough. i'll keep it short this time.

please respect other people's opinion. respect must be given in order to be gained.

"Request: The camera moves too quickly. Please make it so we can change the speed the camera moves.
Response: You can change the vertical and horizontal speeds for the camera in the option menu."

mouse sensitivity was a big enough issue for it to be listed, i am satisfied. both of my complaints, or, "nitpicks," are going to be addressed formally.