Protesting Vita

[failstrom]

Not that it's formal or anything, but since the vita announcement I've honestly lost any hope this will be any different than PSU, and think it's not even worth the effort anymore. I participated in the alpha, but will not be playing the beta. I was wondering if any alpha testers would be willing on the English side of things to make a formal statement by simply not joining and showing Sakai/SEGA the disinterest they've caused in the game by choosing selling copies over making a decent game. A large group are already very dissatisfied in Japan about this turn of events, too, so it's not an Western specific problem due to psu, they consider SEGA's decisions on PSU highly detrimental to their community as well.

Here fans are expressing discontent on a popular Japanese forum:
http://logsoku.com/thread/awabi.2ch.net/ogame3/1331700434/

Some of the things they're saying they worry:
Vita has no keyboard and will limit communication (anybody who's played PSP or games like Monster Hunter know what this is like)
Vita will hold back the game's capabilities and limit updates to only what a portable system can handle, particularly with large-scale events being virtually impossible
Vita's 3g communication is shit (their word) and will be detrimental to the speed of rooms and cause connectivity issues
The portable system would have a limited life span and would prematurely kill servers (Much like with PSP)
Hacking is a problem on PSP and due to the limited nature of consoles, they can't be updated properly to prevent it
For some reason they also think that Vita will force the game to be based on cash items, although I don't understand why.

This whole thing to me is showing SEGA's distance from fans, they don't care about mistakes that the fans feel killed their other games, and aren't showing they care enough to prevent anything like that from happening again. In fact, they're truly showing they're willing to repeat the same mistakes for sales.
Somebody in the thread even mentioned how hard it would be for SEGA to gain their trust back, and that the way it's going currently, it looks like they're not even trying. I totally agree with this person.

Please don't make this an argument about how much you like Vita. I'm speaking specifically to PC users and people who would be willing to organize to make their voice heard. I don't mind having a Vita version at all, I just think SEGA's handling it terribly, and there are other threads to debate that.

EDIT 24 March 2012: I have gotten so much opposition from the pro-Vita side of this website, but I've gotten literally nothing but agreement from people in the outside world. I'm sorry, but I have to agree with everybody here that a firm-footed "I'm not going to do this or buy your game" sort of buycott would accomplish nothing, and that was never what I meant by "protest". I want to voice my opinion and leave it up to Sakai to correct everything. I have a lot of faith in him as a developer. I'm still planning a Japanese-side demonstration during the first beta, and will help anybody not currently involved get involved, but I don't want anybody to think I'm against a Vita version, just against any sort of inhibition of the PC version.

My goal here is to prevent consoles from inhibiting the PC. Anybody who wants to help is welcome to PM me how, and I'll update more in-depth plans when dates on testing are released. I want to make one thing perfectly clear though: I truly think a Vita version would be a lot of fun for Vita users, and that there will be a certain threshold in which Vita will benefit PC and PC will benefit Vita. I just think currently this transaction HIGHLY benefits Vita at the expense of PCs and I want to feel secure as a PC user that Vita won't hurt us.

[GCoffee]

The name you are bestowed with fits you oh so perfectly. All these issues have already been adressed by the dev team itself.

[uhawww]

There is so much speculation and nonsense extrapolation of details we don't know that I don't even know what to say really.

Far be it from me to judge a product that is only 10% complete...

Chill out, take a breather, and revisit this in 6-8 months.

[failstrom]

I'm fully aware the issues have been "addressed" but the addresses were simply paraphrasing "don't worry it will be alright." If you weren't so quick to start things on an internet forum, you'd actually contribute with facts and not ideas on ideas on ideas.
The fact of the matter is I specifically asked for you not to respond like that, and if you were to have even taken the time to read the link, you would see these issues are very current. The hundreds of posts in the thread weren't even started until two days ago. Obviously the address wasn't very thorough.

[Mike]

You don't make a very good case for yourself when you just brush aside what the developers say. But the Vita version isn't coming until to Japan until 2013. You've got plenty of time to drum up support.

[failstrom]

If you'd like to take the word of a company who's pulled these stunts before, you're more than welcome to, just like when they said they'd get the updates back on track for PSU America. Where's your server now? They address issues like connectivity by saying 3g is optional, ignoring the fact that it is still terrible. They address the communication problem by saying there will be add on options to enhance it, ignoring that people will still have difficulties without them. Every case they've made is only half-baked at best and they're relying on selling copies before they have to actually answer the hard questions. I'm going to be showing them today that they have to answer the questions now. Maybe in America people are too ignorant to doubt things until they've been proven with companies who are prone to break trust and I'm just asking the wrong audience for help, but I'm just guessing you didn't take the time to read the thread either. 2ch, unlike this site, is not a fan-based site. It is a site for a general consensus from a wide variety of people with no set loyalty, and it's been shown that the general consensus is discontent amongst people who are just as involved and moreso than you. If you don't think that is the case, then you're not making a very good case for yourself when you're just brushing aside what the fans say.

[Polantaris]

So from what I can tell from your post:
Your only problem with the game is that it's going to be on the Vita too.

Sorry, please try again.

[kyuuketsuki]

The issue with 3G connectivity negatively affecting play for PC users playing with them was pretty specifically addressed -- you won't be able to party-play with PC players or probably even other Vita players unless you're on WiFi, and they are looking at having some other mode of play available for Vita players when they can't get on WiFi.

The only real legitimate concerns are the ones about limited communication (but that would ONLY affect Vita players, how the hell would it affect PC players at all?), and the possibility of the Vita version negatively affecting the size and scope of expansion content and events. Also, a concern you failed to note is the possibility of dividing the community between two different platforms if their tests determine that Vita players and PC players playing together won't work well due to whatever technical issues might come up.

Everything else is knee-jerk, baseless conjecture. And no, I for one sure as hell won't be boycotting the beta or the retail game based on that.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Not the first time that idiots on 2ch have kneejerked over something and others followed suit, won't be the last.

Let them fucking finish the PC version before you prep the torches and pitchforks over the Vita version.

[Jinketsu]

Some of the things they're saying they worry:
Vita has no keyboard and will limit communication (anybody who's played PSP or games like Monster Hunter know what this is like)
Vita will hold back the game's capabilities and limit updates to only what a portable system can handle, particularly with large-scale events being virtually impossible
Vita's 3g communication is shit (their word) and will be detrimental to the speed of rooms and cause connectivity issues
The portable system would have a limited life span and would prematurely kill servers (Much like with PSP)
Hacking is a problem on PSP and due to the limited nature of consoles, they can't be updated properly to prevent it
For some reason they also think that Vita will force the game to be based on cash items, although I don't understand why.

So what this is saying is that the popular forum-goers of japan don't own a Vita. The Vita has a very nice on-screen touch keyboard that works like smartphone keyboards. It plays games just as smoothly as the PS3 - I'm currently loving Marvel vs Capcom and Uncharted, which look damn amazing and have no slowdown. 3G is definitely not going to allow simultaneous play, so I imagine a limitation to what you can do across that network will be thought out thoroughly, or they'll just scrap 3G connectivity to the game all together. PSP didn't have a limited lifespan in the slightest.

Yes, I own a Vita. I don't think it's God's gift to this earth, but I am surprisingly impressed with what the console has to offer right off the bat - and it can only really grow from birth. I'm not arguing with you because I like the Vita. I'm arguing with you because you're following a group of internet lurkers who shove their text around like they know their shit, when nobody knows anything.

I just don't understand why people get so bent out of shape about things that not even the developers know or have set in stone or any of that.

[failstrom]

The popular forum goers of japan are the ones who will decide the fate of this game. I hope you're not so arrogant as to think some offshoot of a fan base for a series SEGA killed in a country that they haven't even announced they'll be selling the game in know more about this process than the people who are actually the market SEGA is intending to hit.
I suppose what everybody's trying to say is that they're very happy with this turn of events and blindly and entirely trust SEGA's decision to be for the betterment of the game and not a money making stunt at the user's expense. In that case I'll go back to the community that actually matters and has the ability to pull something like this off.

[Ark22]

You guys are tripping. Case solved, who wants a cookie?

[Saotome Kaneda]

failstrom, what are you trying to accomplish? What point does protesting a version of the game that has little information about it confirmed hold? Why are you so confrontational about this?

[failstrom]

I'm sorry. I'm apparently not communicating well. I'm not trying to encourage a protest. I'm trying to get support from the community as a whole to put pressure on SEGA to make better decisions for a better game. Simply not playing it wouldn't accomplish anything. I am trying more to organize a positive demonstration internationally to show that people everywhere have legitimate concerns. SEGA is prone to ignoring the voice of the user base, I want to remove that option from them. They surely can't ignore what's thrown on their doorstep and justify it.


You guys are tripping. Case solved, who wants a cookie?

Thank you very much for your highly positive contribution to the discussion. I feel like since you came into the thread to post that thought provoking response, the entire thing has really taken off. I'm certain now that everybody will be happy with the game we've all been looking forward to. In fact, I think if everybody would just so much as hear those words once for themselves, world peace would finally come and starving Chinese children would have generous plates of food donated to them. I want you to know from the bottom of my heart I have never seen such an amazing post.

[Polantaris]

I'm certain now that everybody will be happy with the game we've all been looking forward to.

You seem awfully quick to dump the game over something so silly for a game you've been looking forward to.

Vitas are not PS2. PS2s had serious functionality limitations that are not present in the Vita. PS2s had a combined 36MB of RAM. It resulted in the issues seen on PSU, with limited events, small monster variance, etc. The Vita has 512MB. It's a little under 14x the memory. The major issues present in PSU will not exist. It's that simple.

Dealing with Harddrive space; since the Vita uses a Memory Stick, it comes down to the player being able to provide ample space for the game. It's not a worry SEGA has to deal with. If you don't have enough space, then that's just too bad.

Connectivity has already been discussed.

Your complaints are misguided, thinking that the current consoles/handhelds are anything like they were 12 years ago.

[failstrom]

Why are you so confrontational about this?

It's just how I am. I don't sit back and hope things will be okay, especially when that's been proven to not be the case time and time again. If I see something I don't like, I don't just hope it will change. Here's an idea: How about a staged demonstration during the beta test, an organized group just trying to have their voices heard. It wouldn't cost anybody anything they're not going to do anyways, and I'll even see if Japan would be more keen on the idea (I know they're certainly less keen on Vita) and everybody here could just join in if they agree. I stated from the beginning that I have my personal reasons for not liking it, and didn't want that discussion to be here, since off-topic replies are explicitly against the rules to begin with, and it sort of bothers me that it's easier to have a set topic conversation in the chaos of Japanese imageboards than it is to have one in a small community like this.

My purpose here isn't to debate. It's to organize and everybody that seems to ignore rules in favor of off topic replies is making it very hard to do so. I guess this just isn't the type of site where people discuss things anymore, that would explain the stagnant userbase.

[Spellbinder]

Well failstrom, your attitude in your posts is not going to help your cause.

[Anon_Fire]

Have most of you forgotten about the Vita's touchscreen? You can use that to type messages.

[failstrom]

You seem awfully quick to dump the game over something so silly for a game you've been looking forward to.

Vitas are not PS2. PS2s had serious functionality limitations that are not present in the Vita. PS2s had a combined 36MB of RAM. It resulted in the issues seen on PSU, with limited events, small monster variance, etc. The Vita has 512MB. It's a little under 14x the memory. The major issues present in PSU will not exist. It's that simple.

Dealing with Harddrive space; since the Vita uses a Memory Stick, it comes down to the player being able to provide ample space for the game. It's not a worry SEGA has to deal with. If you don't have enough space, then that's just too bad.

Connectivity has already been discussed.

Your complaints are misguided, thinking that the current consoles/handhelds are anything like they were 12 years ago.

Okay thank you for your contribution. It has been noted and promptly ignored.

[Anon_Fire]

Wow, I can't believe you overlooked the Vita's touchscreen.

[kyuuketsuki]

The popular forum goers of japan are the ones who will decide the fate of this game. I hope you're not so arrogant as to think some offshoot of a fan base for a series SEGA killed in a country that they haven't even announced they'll be selling the game in know more about this process than the people who are actually the market SEGA is intending to hit.
The hypocrisy is strong in this one.
I suppose what everybody's trying to say is that they're very happy with this turn of events and blindly and entirely trust SEGA's decision to be for the betterment of the game and not a money making stunt at the user's expense. In that case I'll go back to the community that actually matters and has the ability to pull something like this off.
Wow. Getting all huffy, insulting the entire forum, and making a clueless statement (no, no one said they blindly trust SEGA; in fact, if you knew anything about this community, you'd know that mistrust of SEGA due to their poor handling of the franchise in the past runs pretty deep around here) when people don't agree with you really gives your argument some weight. /sarcasm

Also, pretty funny pretending that you speak for the entire Japanese fanbase, or that the knee-jerking community members of 2ch do. Hint: you don't, and they don't.

Why can't you understand that this really isn't analogous at all to the debacle with PSU, and that there isn't enough information to justify getting all hot and bothered over the subject. Further, Sakai has made it clear that he's heard the concerns and, besides the blog post where he addressed them (admittedly vaguely in most respects, except, again, the 3G issue was pretty specifically addressed), the most recent newsletter specifically said that the PC is the main platform and they aren't going to allow the Vita version to negatively affect development of the PC version.

[failstrom]

Ugh why

[Anon_Fire]

Just let them work on the PC version first.

[Polantaris]

Okay thank you for your contribution. It has been noted and promptly ignored.

Exactly. You ignore everything that makes you look like an idiot, who has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, and is crying over PSO2 being on a system you don't want to buy.

[failstrom]

The hypocrisy is strong in this one.
Wow. Getting all huffy, insulting the entire forum, and making a clueless statement (no, no one said they blindly trust SEGA; in fact, if you knew anything about this community, you'd know that mistrust of SEGA due to their poor handling of the franchise in the past runs pretty deep around here) when people don't agree with you really gives your argument some weight. /sarcasm

Also, pretty funny pretending that you speak for the entire Japanese fanbase, or that the knee-jerking community members of 2ch do. Hint: you don't, and they don't.

Why can't you understand that this really isn't analogous at all to the debacle with PSU, and that there isn't enough information to justify getting all hot and bothered over the subject. Further, Sakai has made it clear that he's heard the concerns and, besides the blog post where he addressed them (admittedly vaguely in most respects, except, again, the 3G issue was pretty specifically addressed), the most recent newsletter specifically said that the PC is the main platform and they aren't going to allow the Vita version to negatively affect development of the PC version.

If you agree with me on some points, then why not expand positively on them instead of focusing on the ones you disagree with?


Maybe this entire thread needs a redesign. It's obvious that everybody here can't focus on a subject without debate, so tell me please, everything else aside: Are you happy with this turn of events in every regard? Have you honestly heard my opinion on the matter? Would you like to?
Let's try and get this spun back around and on subject. If not, maybe the thread should just be renamed PSO2 Vita debate and I'll partake in it there, and try and remake this one.

[NoiseHERO]

So PSO2's news brings another burst of popularity, now it's popular enough for the PSO2 section to get trolled 2 times in one day by someone that's not me.

This game really is gonna be awesome!

[yoshiblue]

Bring Hayabusa here and you know this game will be awesome. Or the entire section will just be table flipped.

Say that im wrong because I might be but it seems to me that your making a blind jump into this matter with little base to stand on. Thus we can do nothing but debate.

[kyuuketsuki]

If you agree with me on some points, then why not expand positively on them instead of focusing on the ones you disagree with?
... Because there's nothing to expand on. There's just vague concerns based on maybes, what-ifs, and a SEGA-can't-do-anything-right mentality. We don't know enough to have meaningful concerns at this point.

Maybe this entire thread needs a redesign. It's obvious that everybody here can't focus on a subject without debate[...]
Wait wait wait... so you expected to come in here, drum up support for your little anti-Vita revolt, and for everyone who disagrees with you to keep their mouth shut? Good luck with that.

so tell me please, everything else aside: Are you happy with this turn of events in every regard?
What do you mean "everything else aside?" As in, if I ignore all the ways in which I don't agree with you, do I agree with you? I can only read this as you wanting no feedback except that which agrees with you.

And I'm neither happy nor unhappy. I have a couple concerns, which I pointed out in my first reply. While legitimate, they don't have enough of a basis from which to actually form meaningful, constructive dialogue on at this point. It certainly doesn't warrant a protest.

Have you honestly heard my opinion on the matter? Would you like to?
Um, I read your posts, so if I haven't honestly heard your opinion yet, then...?

If not, maybe the thread should just be renamed PSO2 Vita debate and I'll partake in it there, and try and remake this one.
We already have a couple of those, and any thread about the subject will end up the same way. You can just take people disagreeing with you as an emphatic "No, I will not participate in your protest."

[Angelo]

There's really not enough information at this point to make a well informed argument for or against the inclusion of the Vita.

The concept itself has both advantages and disadvantages but at this point that's all it is; mentally drafted concepts.

Let's just wait awhile before grabbing our pitchforks.

[failstrom]

Bring Hayabusa here and you know this game will be awesome. Or the entire section will just be table flipped.

Say that im wrong because I might be but it seems to me that your making a blind jump into this matter with little base to stand on. Thus we can do nothing but debate.

My base hasn't been made yet. You know what my base is? I see Sakai working hard and making a great game. I see Sony coming and and essentially commandeering it and making an obviously commercial decision, and I think marketing is prone to making decisions that are counter productive to what development wants, and what development wants typically aligns more strongly with what the user base wants. I don't think anybody in their right minds could argue that the PC can't support a game as well as Vita, and that, now this is just opinion, Sakai chose PC as his platform initially so he could more thoroughly express himself after being so restricted by what the PSP could handle. I don't want to buycott the game. I don't want to bankrupt SEGA. I want them to realize they're already on a short leash and if they keep putting a copy sale count higher than they put their own users, then they won't have either.

[Zorafim]

Normally, I'd love to jump in the argument and get in on a good track, but it's already headed into a good direction. Too much heat for a trivial topic, but it can still go places before becoming a petty back and forward.

So I guess I'll just leave my opinion and be done with it. The Phantasy Star handhelds have so far shown to be pretty high quality games. PSP2 nearly perfected many aspects of PSU that have been pretty terrible up until that point, and I hear PS0 is pretty positively received. It makes sense that the next game should also get a handheld. And, I hear Sega gets plenty of revenue from their handheld games too. If they want to expand and try to get their software working on this handheld, and they believe they can do that, then I'll support them.

So, I won't be supporting your protest against the Vita. Hell, I don't even know what a Vita is. Why should I be worried that it'll cause me trouble?

[therealAERO]

I gotta tell ya man considering SONY is not the publisher for this game they don't have a say in it pretty much at all. Sega is developer and publisher. Provided they pass quality tests and the game runs without bugs I don't see SONY being capable of having sway over a developer which has no ties to them. And considering the game is being made on PC as the primary platform it really has nothing to do with SONY or it's marketing department at all.

Furthermore isn't there more important things to protest or petition than a game? I honestly don't understand the passion for this. You aren't leading a country to war against a tyrannical dictator. Chill out.

[ShinMaruku]

Have most of you forgotten about the Vita's touchscreen? You can use that to type messages.
I wanna use it to make my characters boobies bounce.

[landman]

Vita has a huge touch screen, how can be communication difficult if you can use it as a keyboard? It's not the same as a keyboard? yeah, a keyboard has it's flaws compared to voice chat too.

[MelancholyWitch]

It's better to be doubtful followed by relief than it is to be hopeful then disappointed. No matter what anyone says or how quick you or I type on a touch screen keyboard, normal keyboards will be quicker, not only that but some people are physically unable to touch the screen for example, stubby fingers or long fingernails most touch screens don't recognize the soft touch of a longer fingernail, obviously communication will be better on the PC I don't believe he's saying that it will be impossible on the vita just more difficult. A lot of vita lovers here jumping in ignoring the facts at hand.

I personally don't dislike the console I actually will probably get my gf one when I can, but we will both play PC PSO2 only, nothing against the vita but what has happened in the past does stick in facts, you can't easily forget what happened then because the technology has changed, things can still go wrong I for one will remain doubtful then when I'm relieved I will feel much better about the game than those who are hopeful and get what they expect or worse.

I agree with failstrom here give him a chance nothing can go wrong from being doubtful and trying to improve the game but a lot can go wrong from being hopeful and getting the opposite of what you expect, like PSU. It's not about someone being negative or all positive and happy they are just voicing their legitimate concerns for the game, that's exactly why there are concerns because we know too little about the vita version and how it will affect the PC version Sakai can swear up and down that it wont have any negative impacts on it but he can not possibly predict the future, no one can. You can't ever rule out the possibility nothing will go wrong, it can happen. It's better to voice our opinions on these concerns rather than just sit at your house and hope for a better game with fingers crossed, because I'm sure a lot of you are also concerned about the vita version and its' impact on the PC version just not willing to admit it openly, it's ok to be concerned about something you're going to spend money on. It's not ok to hate on something you're going to buy, why spend the money on it? No hate here just some opinions on what could go wrong.

[NoiseHERO]

It's better to be doubtful followed by relief than it is to be hopeful then disappointed.

It's even better to look at it from the perspective of the developers who have really annoying fans that will never trust them ever again and realize they would have to be retarded to completely screw this up.

Which they've proven not to be.

Edit: but no seriously just this quote alone:

"Additionally, as solution for consoles, we announced PSO2 for the Playstation Vita which will share character data with the PC version. This was a worrisome announcement for those of you who were hoping for a PC only PSO2 but have not fear, the Vita version wont take priority over the PC version nor will the PC version lose anything fun because of it."

Should be enough to calm everyone down. There was no "Don't worry... I got this :J" They're straight up saying, they'll make sure the Vita version won't cripple PC in anyway.

[MelancholyWitch]

That really makes no sense... I'm not annoyed at all, and are you certain about that? They do tend to go back on their word, like the PC only promise. It's not about having trust it's about being cautious on something you are going to spend money on.

[NoiseHERO]

That really makes no sense... I'm not annoyed at all, and are you certain about that? They do tend to go back on their word, like the PC only promise. It's not about having trust it's about being cautious on something you are going to spend money on.

I was mostly just going on about your first sentence I actually didn't read the rest of your post nor was I talking about you specifically. And yeah it IS about trust, because the only reason people are "cautious"(Shit talking) assuming Vita would ruin PC is because "PSU DID IT AND PSU SUCKED." Which made everyone extra butthurt and pessimistic about every little thing SEGA/Sonic Team does.

Which is why I keep saying they've already earned it back with their last group of games and Sakai as leader. Being negative and waiting to be pleasantly surprised is no different from saying "Hurry up, don't fuck it up, bitch!" Then when you get what you want it's all "BOUT TIME YOU DID SOMETHING RIGHT." When we've already been WAY past that phase by the time PSP2 came out.

And yeah edited my original post..

[MelancholyWitch]

Yeah no insults here just saying first off I for one am not assuming Vita would ruin PC because of what happened to PSU I actually enjoy PSU to this day, since I'm a PS fan, I'm concerned with what could happen because of the capabilities of a handheld device compared to something like a PC and the vast differences between the two, nothing to do with PSU. My concern mostly is how the Vita version would have to change/become different, which is completely different than what you are trying to imply/suggest. I don't want different versions of the game ruining EACH OTHER not just one or the other. I do trust they will do this game with the best of their abilities but things can change from now till 2013 just don't expect too much or disappointment can occur.

[NoiseHERO]

Well as they say, the Vita version shouldn't mess up the main PC version...

But as they also say the game is only 10% complete and however PSO2 will work on the Vita they'll have to decide with a lot more testing, including their own beta test. IT could mean the difference between the two versions being the same, or completely seperate.

But in that case it's all up to the player's preference, I'd assume more western players would stick to PC. But I don't know how Japanese players think, with their handheld obsession and all.

[eclipsXe]

Why don't you guys just not buy the vita version.....

[kyuuketsuki]

Why don't you guys just not buy the vita version.....
Aaaaaand you obviously don't understand the concerns about the Vita version.

[eclipsXe]

Aaaaaand you obviously don't understand the concerns about the Vita version.

That it will limit the PC version? Don't buy the vita version so they won't waste time with it? Either way if this game fails it won't be because it's on the vita :)

[Ark22]

Aaaaaand you obviously don't understand the concerns about the Vita version.

You shouldn't assume lol. Besides that, this is a pretty pointless argument.

NO,it will not delay the game.

YES they will dumb down the graphics, but slightly. PSV has specs that can be truly optimized to run on it near max settings honestly.

YES, PSN has stated that DEVS will be able to put out updates without PSN testing. It will be up to the devs to make it on time, which I highly doubt because there will be MINOR bugs in the game that can be fixed.

It's not an MMO people, it's a game with instances.

So honestly if you don't want it, don't buy it, Sega just wants money, this will not affect PC users. First you complain about consoles now you protest, give it a break. We all want to play it, so let them do, what they do best.

P.S. This game will look pretty wicked on the go.

[failstrom]

But I don't know how Japanese players think, with their handheld obsession and all.

Maybe not as bad as America, but they've very concerned with how the series was handled in the past, too, and you should take the time to look over the thread I posted. All the concerns in the OP were from 2ch, not me.

[eclipsXe]

Concerned about Phantasy Star Online 2 Vita?

Can PSO2 Vita even handle large-scale updates?

The PlayStation 2 version of PSU couldn’t support any large-scale updates at all, they couldn’t add any stages nor enemies. But in terms of what they support, PlayStation Vita and PlayStation 2 are two totally different platforms.

For one, there were PlayStation 2′s without a hard drive so of course you could not add more stages, or enemies, or even huge system updates. However the Playstation Vita can certainly handle it all.



Wouldn’t it be easier to cheat on such a device?

Well in the past, Phantasy Star Online and Phantasy Star Portable 2 stored data offline making it easier to cheat. Even so, they still were able to support the games by banning accounts of cheaters. PSO2 is online only, so data is stored online to keep it secure.



3G Players

Phantasy Star Online 2 can be played on 3G or Wifi! But the amount of data that’s supported on both is considerably different. On Wifi, data speeds were close enough in comparison to PC players. However, for 3G, it will be difficult for the data speeds to catch up, so they have plans to do something separate when you are on that network. (Sakai did not go into detail as to how different the data communication would be on 3G.)



About Cross-Platform playing on Vita and PC

It is possible for the Vita version to play at the same time with the PC version. However, Vita players would have to undergo their own beta testing to see if things go smoothly. It is not what they are aiming for, but depending on the results they may have to say, “PC and Vita players can not play together at the same time.”

They received lots of requests on how people wanted to play PSO2 on something other than PC. So they decided to give the PlayStation Vita a shot as a new alternative way to play this game.

March still has some more announcements to go through. By the end of the month, Sakai plans to make announcements about the next test!

/end protest

[failstrom]

You shouldn't assume lol. Besides that, this is a pretty pointless argument.

NO,it will not delay the game.

YES they will dumb down the graphics, but slightly. PSV has specs that can be truly optimized to run on it near max settings honestly.

YES, PSN has stated that DEVS will be able to put out updates without PSN testing. It will be up to the devs to make it on time, which I highly doubt because there will be MINOR bugs in the game that can be fixed.

It's not an MMO people, it's a game with instances.

So honestly if you don't want it, don't buy it, Sega just wants money, this will not affect PC users. First you complain about consoles now you protest, give it a break. We all want to play it, so let them do, what they do best.

P.S. This game will look pretty wicked on the go.

I think he's right. All the concerns you see are from the prospective of a Vita buyer, not the PC base. I agree this could be a very good game for a decent system, but the point everybody's trying to make is that it could end up being a worse game compared to a PC exclusive if they don't take this matter very seriously.

Also it's not an MMO?????

[failstrom]

Concerned about Phantasy Star Online 2 Vita?

Can PSO2 Vita even handle large-scale updates?

The PlayStation 2 version of PSU couldn’t support any large-scale updates at all, they couldn’t add any stages nor enemies. But in terms of what they support, PlayStation Vita and PlayStation 2 are two totally different platforms.

For one, there were PlayStation 2′s without a hard drive so of course you could not add more stages, or enemies, or even huge system updates. However the Playstation Vita can certainly handle it all.

This is flat out wrong. The playstation 2, had optional purchasable memory. There are playstation hard drives which support 40 gigs, and they're saying that a vita can by default handle it all. The system memory on a Vita is external and, much like the much larger playstation 2 hard drives, must be purchased aftermarket.
I'll agree that the Vita has a much bigger base memory capability, but as times change more memory is required, and if they're going to say only PS2s without HDDs couldn't handle updates, then they'll have to say only Vitas with minimal requirements could handle everything, too, unless they want to make 16 gig memory card a requirement for purchase.

http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-40GB-Hard-Drive-Rails/dp/B0013VHJHM


Wouldn’t it be easier to cheat on such a device?

Well in the past, Phantasy Star Online and Phantasy Star Portable 2 stored data offline making it easier to cheat. Even so, they still were able to support the games by banning accounts of cheaters. PSO2 is online only, so data is stored online to keep it secure.



I'm not a big fan of game guard, but it does prevent basic external applications like trainers from being run. Some games in the series which have since had private servers which disabled gameguard are very prone to cheating even currently. I don't think anybody who plays on pso private servers would say that simply storing the data server side prevents cheating. Things like HP freeze and God of Equipment exploit things that can be done player side, and as long as there is any player side processing at all, there is room for cheating that will be out of SEGA's control on an system.




About Cross-Platform playing on Vita and PC

It is possible for the Vita version to play at the same time with the PC version. However, Vita players would have to undergo their own beta testing to see if things go smoothly. It is not what they are aiming for, but depending on the results they may have to say, “PC and Vita players can not play together at the same time.”

They received lots of requests on how people wanted to play PSO2 on something other than PC. So they decided to give the PlayStation Vita a shot as a new alternative way to play this game.

This didn't answer anything at all. This is a "Don't worry we'll fix it" response.
Do you still think that SEGA has undoubtedly answered every question there is to ask?

[eclipsXe]

This is flat out wrong. The playstation 2, had optional purchasable memory. There are playstation hard drives which support 40 gigs, and they're saying that a vita can by default handle it all. The system memory on a Vita is external and, much like the much larger playstation 2 hard drives, must be purchased aftermarket.
I'll agree that the Vita has a much bigger base memory capability, but as times change more memory is required, and if they're going to say only PS2s without HDDs couldn't handle updates, then they'll have to say only Vitas with minimal requirements could handle everything, too, unless they want to make 16 gig memory card a requirement for purchase.

http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-40GB-Hard-Drive-Rails/dp/B0013VHJHM



I'm not a big fan of game guard, but it does prevent basic external applications like trainers from being run. Some games in the series which have since had private servers which disabled gameguard are very prone to cheating even currently. I don't think anybody who plays on pso private servers would say that simply storing the data server side prevents cheating. Things like HP freeze and God of Equipment exploit things that can be done player side, and as long as there is any player side processing at all, there is room for cheating that will be out of SEGA's control on an system.




This didn't answer anything at all. This is a "Don't worry we'll fix it" response.
Do you still think that SEGA has undoubtedly answered every question there is to ask?

Of course they haven't answered every question but those answers ended my thought on the one thing I cared about when it was announced on vita, and that was how they were going to handle updates. It wouldn't be the first time where a game came with hardware updates, only one i can think of is expansions pack with N64 xD. Like they said tho this will not effect the PC version in anyway let's just hope they fulfill their word. Protest the game then if it doesn't the future isn't set because you guys are stuck on the past. If sega doesn't stay true their word then this game was due to fail anyways.

[Ark22]

By MMO I think open world. I know that's wrong but hey, the game runs solely on instances (You just warp into a dungeon). So there won't be any MASS updates to add to anything besides levels, which wouldn't even be much.

[r00tabaga]

When life slips you a Jeffery, stroke the furry wall.

[Cayenne]

I come back from Vegas and someone is crying about the Vita version again?

[Xenobia]

Im not truly into taking a position, because it will just always be a war and never be able to come to any real conclusion.

My view therefore isnt political, its more like the view of a scientist. From that point of view, i do believe that it will be hard to combine 2 totaly different systems with totaly different specs on the same game and server. The thing simply is, how to make those 2 systems capabilitys matching each others. Either someone will be limited, or overhelmed, its hard to match with each others. It would be easy to match with another console. A PC however, thats a insane powerful device, which is chronically held back by other systems and it matters not what game or system we compare with.

Fact is: Japanese people are slowly stepping away from consoles. The PC gamers however did increase a lot, and JP people are always into handheld (that behaviour is unchanged). Finaly, SEGA is trying to please the majority... its where the money is.

The stuff they are trying to implement is a real challenge, that is certain. Im not gonna argue about "why and how", its leading into nothing else but war.

But one thing is certain: No matter what else to bring up, there is always someone to say NO and someone to say YES.

[shiink]

They received lots of requests on how people wanted to play PSO2 on something other than PC. So they decided to give the PlayStation Vita a shot as a new alternative way to play this game.

OK so SEGA defaulted on their promise to make it PC only. However, many people expressed a want for this and now they are getting it. Those are the people you should be blaming.

I think this whole protest is fairly premature considering that It hasn't even gone through testing and have made it a consideration that the two versions would become separate if things didn't go well. So yeah, Relax, have a shot of Whisky and enjoy the weather in anticipation for the Beta.

[Xenobia]

I had in mind they would make a Wii U version, its a pretty promising hardware which will come out end of 2012 (in JP). The dev kits surely will be released much sooner, so SEGA would have the time to work on it before even the PC version would be out. A Wii U release half year after PC release should be possible. The advantage simply is that the GPU of that console is a pretty hard hitter (4000 series) and its possible to implement the PC version in the best way possible.

They can make a Vita version and every console of the world. Almost nobody would care; They only would care because PC will have lack of support and finally we have a battle. Because SEGA simply isnt having unlimited capacitys/ressources and someone will always get a hit. So generally from a unbiased view all i care is if it would have a negative impact on the PC version. As i said there just seems to be 2 of them: Decreased PC support and unable to make a good match. However, no one is interested into system specific issues as long as it doesnt affect another system. Im telling this because some people apparently got in mind that those people who are against are "Vita or whatever hater". This isnt something specific to that system as such, its simply the worry regarding collateral damage. Its not a general intolerance, its the lack of accepting damage. ;)

[eclipsXe]

Im not truly into taking a position, because it will just always be a war and never be able to come to any real conclusion.

My view therefore isnt political, its more like the view of a scientist. From that point of view, i do believe that it will be hard to combine 2 totaly different systems with totaly different specs on the same game and server. The thing simply is, how to make those 2 systems capabilitys matching each others. Either someone will be limited, or overhelmed, its hard to match with each others. It would be easy to match with another console. A PC however, thats a insane powerful device, which is chronically held back by other systems and it matters not what game or system we compare with.

Fact is: Japanese people are slowly stepping away from consoles. The PC gamers however did increase a lot, and JP people are always into handheld (that behaviour is unchanged). Finaly, SEGA is trying to please the majority... its where the money is.

The stuff they are trying to implement is a real challenge, that is certain. Im not gonna argue about "why and how", its leading into nothing else but war.

But one thing is certain: No matter what else to bring up, there is always someone to say NO and someone to say YES.

If FF11 can make it an MMO with an open world work on ps2 and PC with cross servers there is no reason Sega can't, unless idk, they don't know what they are doing :P, and I pray they are.

[NoiseHERO]

FF11 sucked though... D:

[Xenobia]

However, you forgot to tell that the PS2 had to be equipped with a 40 GB HDD, in Europe there wasnt such a PS2. It needed a KB too and the game got released in 2002 and not 2012. ;) 10 years is a huge time in tech development.

Again, those people "against" dont care how the Vita will turn out, they only care possible impact on PC. Those who dont care PC but Vita may think the same and finally its a battle which is avoidable. In term we take it over to Wii U, then its pretty much the same such as the PC version, because the hardware is almost sufficient to match it. So that means, even the PC gamers would not feel "hurt" about possible impact, thats what i meant by having a good match.

[Caerik]

So PSO2's news brings another burst of popularity, now it's popular enough for the PSO2 section to get trolled 2 times in one day by someone that's not me.

This game really is gonna be awesome!

I know! It's a rather backhanded compliment, isn't it?

This part is to the OP: you really should wait until a game is past 10% completion to judge it. It's too soon to even know if the servers will be shared.

[eclipsXe]

FF11 sucked though... D:

Idk never played lol, I know the servers are still up and PSU is not...can't say its cuz it has Final Fantasy in the name because that didn't save 14.

I agree tho I rather see it on PS3 or WII U, since in my head it sounds like it'll work out better. Though if they can make vita work without limiting the PC version, I'm all for it :). Though I'm not going to protest because I'm not sure if it will work or not. I'm going to see if Sega pulls out the right cards and makes it work.

[NoiseHERO]

Idk never played lol, I know the servers are still up and PSU is not...can't say its cuz it has Final Fantasy in the name because that didn't save 14.

I agree tho I rather see it on PS3 or WII U, since in my head it sounds like it'll work out better. Though if they can make vita work without limiting the PC version, I'm all for it :). Though I'm not going to protest because I'm not sure if it will work or not. I'm going to see if Sega pulls out the right cards and makes it work.

Both language PSU servers are still up. D:

Though PS2 got killed so PC could be stand alone in japan.

And PS2/PC died on the english side because it was neglected (Otherwise they would've realized it wasn't making money LOOOOOOONGer time ago.)

[Xenobia]

I just can say, while PSP been developed i certainly feelt like PSU on other systems lacked support. But finally everthing lacked support with the exception of PC/JP version. ;) Thats why i certainly would not back up to much excursions. Because i got the feeling that SEGA will need to implement more focus on a single thing to make it truly outstanding.


because it was neglected
Oh? Yes yes... ^^;



...got killed so PC could be stand alone

Uhm, couldnt you write a bit... quieter? :D

[NoiseHERO]

I just can say, while PSP been developed i certainly feelt like PSU on other systems lacked support. But finally everthing lacked support with the exception of PC/JP version. ;) Thats why i certainly would not back up to much excursions. Because i got the feeling that SEGA will need to implement more focus on a single thing to make it truly outstanding.


Oh? Yes yes... ^^;

This is why the Vita version has a seperate development team. Also reminding people that they promised it would hold down the PC version.

You can't say they lied about this game being PC only, they only planned for it to be. For the exact reasons that everyone was concerned about.

But they saw an opportunity to make more money by putting this on a handheld as well, without ruining the main PC version on the Vita. They thought about it carefully and they took it. Whether it works out and it can be a part of the PC community, or it fails and it would have to be a separate game is why they're still testing it.

Also NO DON'T MAKE ME GO BACK TO MY ALL CAPS PHASE I WILL CRUSH YOU WITH MY KEYBOARD.

[Cayenne]

Can we discuss this topic in 2013?

WAY too early to say it's gonna suck and ruin PSO2.

[Xenobia]

I guess we should implement a new rule for writings not to be allowed to exceed 1 letter-bell, for the sake of all sentient beings. ^^;

[NoiseHERO]

Can we discuss this topic in 2013?

WAY too early to say it's gonna suck and ruin PSO2.

You'd think people would at least be positive enough to say "perfect PSO2 until 2013! YEAH!"

@Xenobia: I'm really not getting your joke, which is rare for me to not get a joke. D:

[MelancholyWitch]

People still fail to realize that a lot of us who are suppose-ably "against" it are actually concerned about the Vita version itself not necessarily just the PC version, it's the concern that the vita version will be held back because it can not compare to the PC's hardware, which would make it a slightly different game. They are trying to hit 2 birds with one stone, they can either miss and hit nothing, hit one, or hit both with a lucky shot, people seem to exclude that possibly and think only of their opinion. I'm merely saying any of those 3 options is quite possible in this case.

[failstrom]

People still fail to realize that a lot of us who are suppose-ably "against" it are actually concerned about the Vita version itself not necessarily just the PC version, it's the concern that the vita version will be held back because it can not compare to the PC's hardware, which would make it a slightly different game. They are trying to hit 2 birds with one stone, they can either miss and hit nothing, hit one, or hit both with a lucky shot, people seem to exclude that possibly and think only of their opinion. I'm merely saying any of those 3 options is quite possible in this case.

I think it's my fault for miscommunication. I personally want to see a vita version. I think, however, combined servers are a bad move. I think PSO2 would be better on both ends if they treated it more like Phantasy Star Portable and PSU. PSP, PSP2, and PSP2i were all great successes for sales and none of them were in any ways detrimental to the previous games. An online only portable game just seems like a really bad idea, especially since they've already announced that 3g couldn't handle it.

And as for the waiting until 2013, are you suggesting I wait until the game is out and the servers are merge to say I don't want a server merge? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[Xenobia]

@Rocky: Just be yourself, no need to "get", as long as you can take. ;) Your kind of jokes are pretty much forward lined, while my kind of stuff is sometimes hilarious, oh the fun.


Oh noes... the release will go well until release (!?)




concerned about the Vita version itself not necessarily just the PC version...

...they can either miss and hit nothing, hit one, or hit both with a lucky shot, people seem to exclude that possibly and think only of their opinion. I'm merely saying any of those 3 options is quite possible in this case.

Im not actually getting it. You seems to be concerned that all will go well? So the group of people who would enjoy to have everything going well, and then protesting Vita? Just out of my view, kinda confusing. ^^;

Its not about "possibility" itself, its about how to raise the possibility to its maximum possibility, if you know what i mean. You can use a grain of sand and try to shot down those birds, or you gonna use a perfectly shaped boomerang in which you already was able to win a tournament with...

[MelancholyWitch]

I think it's my fault for miscommunication. I personally want to see a vita version. I think, however, combined servers are a bad move. I think PSO2 would be better on both ends if they treated it more like Phantasy Star Portable and PSU. PSP, PSP2, and PSP2i were all great successes for sales and none of them were in any ways detrimental to the previous games. An online only portable game just seems like a really bad idea, especially since they've already announced that 3g couldn't handle it.

And as for the waiting until 2013, are you suggesting I wait until the game is out and the servers are merge to say I don't want a server merge? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I completely agree with you, people are just misreading your post and immediately thinking "OMFG this guy hates handheld games and consoles he must be an MMO gamer, off with him!" which is just a biased view on their own part, I'd like to see other versions of the game, but is it realistic with the current technology to make them all run on the same server? Most likely not, and about the 3g I do believe it can't handle it but there has been some new phones lately with 4g technology is the Vita out of the reach for this ?

[Xenobia]

Hmm... lot of contradictory stuff. "Would enjoy a Vita, but Vita unable to handle it". Finally we may have to talk about the how, but im not gonna do it because to much of biased stuff inside. Finally i found out its about the "how".

[failstrom]

Hmm... lot of contradictory stuff. "Would enjoy a Vita, but Vita unable to handle it". Finally we may have to talk about the how, but im not gonna do it because to much of biased stuff inside. Finally i found out its about the "how".

Please use direct quotes, I don't get which parts you're responding to.
No I do not think Vita can handle a full scale PC version without being detrimental
Yes I would like the game on Vita
No I don't want a shared server.


Im not actually getting it. You seems to be concerned that all will go well? So the group of people who would enjoy to have everything going well, and then protesting Vita? Just out of my view, kinda confusing. ^^;


Of course Vita users wouldn't care about sharing a server with PC, there's no circumstance the PC version would do anything but hold up the Vita one. Vita's the only one who could hold anything back.

[Xenobia]

Alright then simply use own server, problem solved. So the topic is about about (not) getting a shared server.

Thats not a quote, thats some kind of insight i tried to extract.

[failstrom]

Alright then simply use own server, problem solved. So the topic is about about getting a shared server.

Thats not a quote, thats some kind of insight i tried to extract.

Yeah that's about it. I mean isn't that what it's been about all along? It was never a matter of being jealous that Vita players can play the game without owning a PC or some utterly absurd console war, it was about the user base feeling that allowing Vita players on the PC server would have a negative impact on PC players.

[kyuuketsuki]

[...] it was about the user base feeling that allowing Vita players on the PC server would have a negative impact on PC players.
Cool, and those who disagree with you (like myself) are part of the user base as well, and we feel that this is not something to be terribly concerned with presently. They have stated that the PC is the main platform and they aren't going to allow the Vita version to negatively affect development of the main platform. They have stated they're aware of concerns people have due to the way PSU was handled, and are looking to avoid a repeat of that. I fail to see any concern that hasn't been debunked or addressed.

Sure, it's possible they're just throwing platitudes our way and are going to go ahead and repeat history, but there is no firm basis for that outside of a "it's SEGA so obviously they're going to screw it up" mentality. If/when we have any actual evidence that the Vita version is negatively affecting the PC version, I'll be the first to bitch about it.

[failstrom]

Cool, and those who disagree with you (like myself) are part of the user base as well, and we feel that this is not something to be terribly concerned with presently. They have stated that the PC is the main platform and they aren't going to allow the Vita version to negatively affect development of the main platform. They have stated they're aware of concerns people have due to the way PSU was handled, and are looking to avoid a repeat of that. I fail to see any concern that hasn't been debunked or addressed.

Sure, it's possible they're just throwing platitudes our way and are going to go ahead and repeat history, but there is no firm basis for that outside of a "it's SEGA so obviously they're going to screw it up" mentality. If/when we have any actual evidence that the Vita version is negatively affecting the PC version, I'll be the first to bitch about it.

Those who deny history are destined to repeat it. The past is firm basis.

[MelancholyWitch]

There is a concern that SEGA has not been able to address, they have not yet confirmed that the game will be exactly the same, at this point it could be a completely different game just with same names,icons,graphics etc. It doesn't mean that the game will have a negative impact on the PC it just simply means that the game could be different, I think this is a BIG concern for both PC players, and Vita players.

[Spellbinder]

Those who deny history are destined to repeat it. The past is firm basis.

SEGA hasn't denied anything. They know what has happened in the past which is why they've tried to address our concerns, just like the producer mentioned yesterday during the conference, and I'm sure he'll have to repeat himself again at the next conference at the end of the month. The interview from yesterday is not fresh in my mind, but what I gathered from the little he said regarding the Vita, he wouldn't have selected the Vita platform unless he was convinced there was a chance it could work.

He believes there's a possibility the two platforms can play together. During the briefing yesterday he said they are going to test the Vita version to see whether or not it can properly handle running along side the PC platform. If I'm not mistaken, he also made a previous statement on his blog that if in the end the vita can't handle playing alongside the PC version it would be handled separately.

Can we at least wait until we see how the Vita tests go?

[NoiseHERO]

SEGA hasn't denied anything. They know what has happened in the past which is why they've tried to address our concerns, just like the producer mentioned yesterday during the conference, and I'm sure he'll have to repeat himself again at the next conference at the end of the month. The interview from yesterday is not fresh in my mind, but what I gathered from the little he said regarding the Vita, he wouldn't have selected the Vita platform unless he was convinced there was a chance it could work.

He believes there's a possibility the two platforms can play together. During the briefing yesterday he said they are going to test the Vita version to see whether or not it can properly handle running along side the PC platform. If I'm not mistaken, he also made a previous statement on his blog that if in the end the vita can't handle playing alongside the PC version it would be handled separately.

Can we at least wait until we see how the Vita tests go?

He's definitely going to have to repeat himself, because I've said this like 5 times this week already. D:

[r00tabaga]

Thread closing in 5, 4, 3, 2...

[MelancholyWitch]

Face palm* for those who just read the first line in people's replies and then furiously post their reply in a childish rage. People aren't looking at this in the right way... but ignorance is a bliss on here apparently.

[Ark22]

Let's talk about cool things instead of negative things about the Vita. For instance, the ability to carry a super light weight machine in your pockets instead of a laptop. Or awesome touch screen features. Why protest something that really isn't half way down. Who knows they may scrap it all together.

[failstrom]

SEGA hasn't denied anything.

I didn't say they did. It was a direct response to a direct quote directed at a user. Sakai has put more fan suggested effort into this game than I have ever see any developer do. Why do you think that is? User feedback. That's all I'm trying to gather. Or you can sit back and say it will be fine. That seems to have saved PSU.


He's definitely going to have to repeat himself:
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


Let's talk about cool things instead of negative things about the Vita. For instance, the ability to carry a super light weight machine in your pockets instead of a laptop. Or awesome touch screen features. Why protest something that really isn't half way down. Who knows they may scrap it all together.

It seems like it could be a really good thing. It would be a terrible shame if the negative things made it worse, though. We should try and help make sure that doesn't happen.

[eclipsXe]

Both language PSU servers are still up. D:

Though PS2 got killed so PC could be stand alone in japan.

And PS2/PC died on the english side because it was neglected (Otherwise they would've realized it wasn't making money LOOOOOOONGer time ago.)

Only in japan tho!, I DARE YA TO GO ALL CAPS. Actually please don't

[failstrom]

Only in japan tho!, I DARE YA TO GO ALL CAPS. Actually please don't

If you notice, the Japanese concerns are somewhat different than my own and others expressed by westerner baka gaijins. I think we have to watch our backs more just to even keep a server up or get the game in the first place. Everybody wants to wait until 2013, what if they do it and it flops on release? Then we won't get PSO2 at all.

[Ark22]

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not. So you're saying since everyone may wait until 2013 to get the Vita version it will mess up the PC version causing the Vita version to go down with it?

[failstrom]

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not. So you're saying since everyone may wait until 2013 to get the Vita version it will mess up the PC version causing the Vita version to go down with it?

I'm saying that if nobody did anything then it would be much more probable, and that nothing's gained by waiting.


Edit: No wait, I think I misunderstood you. Everybody's saying to wait until the release of vita to criticize it. I'm saying there are flaws, or at least potential flaws, which should be criticized now so they don't disrupt the PC version. I'm not concerned about when it's bought at all. If under the worse case scenario, you're saying PC version would go down with Vita, but that wouldn't really affect Vita would it? I mean PS2's use was prolonged by its PC counterpart for PSU.

[RikkiBlackNanobeast]

I want this thread at least locked until the Vita version is about 50% done or we get results of how the Vita plays alongside the PC. This discussion has been going nowhere at all and I predict it shall stay that way until the Vita's production isn't at freakin' 10%.

[failstrom]

I want this thread at least locked until the Vita version is about 50% done or we get results of how the Vita plays alongside the PC. This discussion has been going nowhere at all and I predict it shall stay that way until the Vita's production isn't at freakin' 10%.

I'm sorry, I don't like people who disagree with me, either, but I thoroughly read the forum rules and violated none. It's neither your job nor mine to decide what other users say.

I think it's absolutely imperative that the concerns are expressed thoroughly as soon as possible so that irreversible changes aren't made in development.

[Cayenne]

I'm sorry, I don't like people who disagree with me, either, but I thoroughly read the forum rules and violated none. It's neither your job nor mine to decide what other users say.

Why do so many people on here think and talk like a robot?

"Technically" (everyone's favorite word on here) you can express yourself to your heart's content but really you should just stop, it's just pointless.

[XbikXBd]

I'm sorry, I don't like people who disagree with me, either, but I thoroughly read the forum rules and violated none. It's neither your job nor mine to decide what other users say.

I think it's absolutely imperative that the concerns are expressed thoroughly as soon as possible so that irreversible changes aren't made in development.

To be fair i just saw this post out of the corner of my Eye...
All i have to say as someone who has played PSO/PSU/PSP/PSP2 etc
I am sooo happy for the vita version because as a player of JP PSU on PC and PSU on Xbox, I do see potential in the Vita its graphics are awesome. so it should have no problem running it, as for it being a portable system that makes it better! i prefer it over PC now maybe after 3+ years on JP. The thing that is making me not get the PC ver. now is that its gonna be on the Vita, but now that we know its coming to the vita that also can mean a PS3 release and a Xbox release as well in the future hopefully. but i'm ranting as for this post it seems a little out of spite that ur flushing all of this on people before the game is even more then 20% done....just seems a little childish to me.

also im kinda surprised the MODs have not closed this yet...

[Cayenne]

They haven't closed it because no one but failstorm is crying about this. It needs more than 1 pair of eyes to achieve this.

[XbikXBd]

They haven't closed it because no one but failstorm is crying about this. It needs more than 1 pair of eyes to achieve this.

i also find it funny that he just joined this site like less then 2 months ago....^^;

[MelancholyWitch]

People overlook others' post or opinions it's a common flaw on these forums, I haven't recently joined this site but I don't go around saying how much better I am or reliable my statements are, I have an opinion just as he or anyone else, the vita hands down just can't be exactly the same game there will have to be set backs there's no way a Handheld can be the same as a PC it's just impossible, does that mean the game will be ruined? Not necessarily but it will most certainly be different in some aspects.

[failstrom]

People overlook others' post or opinions it's a common flaw on these forums, I haven't recently joined this site but I don't go around saying how much better I am or reliable my statements are, I have an opinion just as he or anyone else, the vita hands down just can't be exactly the same game there will have to be set backs there's no way a Handheld can be the same as a PC it's just impossible, does that mean the game will be ruined? Not necessarily but it will most certainly be different in some aspects.

Let me ask you, do you think the vita version would hold back the PC version or vice versa? I'm trying to get a detailed idea of your opinion, would you care to elaborate to your heart's content?

[MelancholyWitch]

Yes I do believe it can negatively impact either of the versions or even both of them, right now we can't really determined which one it is going to be out of those three options but to say that none are and everything is going to be happy and okay is pure childish ignorance.

[moorebounce]

failstrom I understand where you're coming from but you have to at least give Sega a chance to right their ship. In my eyes they're headed in the right direction starting with the portal games and now PSO2. Sega has shown us in the two alpha tests that they're listening to it's fans.

Do all of us like the PSO2 PSVita announcement? NO. Do we have a concern that development of the PC game will be neglected because of the PSVita version? YES.

You said your piece and if what you're concerned about come true then you can come back and say I told you so but you're not gonna get help this way. If you come here and call people names you're not gonna get their help even if they agree with you and I'm sure people do. You could've got my support until you started attacking people on these forums. We all love this series as much or even more than you do or we wouldn't be here reading every word posted about this game.

So chill and when Sega starts to mess up you'll have all the help you can get.

[failstrom]

Yes I do believe it can negatively impact either of the versions or even both of them, right now we can't really determined which one it is going to be out of those three options but to say that none are and everything is going to be happy and okay is pure childish ignorance.

Then we should do something about it. Are you participating in the beta? Would you like help expressing your concerns to developement


failstrom I understand where you're coming from but you have to at least give Sega a chance to right their ship. In my eyes they're headed in the right direction starting with the portal games and now PSO2. Sega has shown us in the two alpha tests that they're listening to it's fans.


Yes everything was started off wrong. If I didn't give SEGA a chance in the first place, I wouldn't have cared about alpha testing. I'm also not very good at forum'ing and have already admitted to mis-communicating. It's hard to get in touch with a user base cold, no matter how much experience you have. I don't want to jump ship, I want to nudge SEGA on the right path.

[Taichi01]

While I understand the concerns of what some people have because of the past, this isn't PSU anymore. Sega has learned (IMO) with their latest portable Phantasy Star games and made the latter two iterations (PSP2 & Infinity) much better than PSU. So, I honestly wasn't surprised that it would be announced for Vita.

The Vita won't hold anything back from the PC version. Sony won't interfere with updates for a MMO game unlike with Microsoft. DC Universe is a prime example. Storage space isn't an issue since they have 32GB memory cards and it will be up to the user in how to manage their space. Graphics really won't affect the PC players so this shouldn't even be an issue.

Communication with other players won't be a problem as well since the Vita uses a touch screen and has a mic for voice chat. I honestly don't see a problem here after thinking about it.

If they run into problems, they will separate the Vita players from the PC players. While cross-platform play would be nice if it hampers the PC version then it will be cut, just like PSU 360 was separate from PC players.

PSU 360 could've cross platform with PC just like FFXI did. Also, the Vita version comes out in 2013...so think about that.

[moorebounce]

Then we should do something about it. Are you participating in the beta? Would you like help expressing your concerns to developement



Yes everything was started off wrong. If I didn't give SEGA a chance in the first place, I wouldn't have cared about alpha testing. I'm also not very good at forum'ing and have already admitted to mis-communicating. It's hard to get in touch with a user base cold, no matter how much experience you have. I don't want to jump ship, I want to nudge SEGA on the right path.

Here's your problem. Most of us here think Sega is doing a good job with PSO2 so far. So until we think they're messing up you're on your own. It's just as simple as that. Believe me if Sega drops the ball on this all heck will break loose trust me.

[MelancholyWitch]

Then we should do something about it. Are you participating in the beta? Would you like help expressing your concerns to developement



Yes everything was started off wrong. If I didn't give SEGA a chance in the first place, I wouldn't have cared about alpha testing. I'm also not very good at forum'ing and have already admitted to mis-communicating. It's hard to get in touch with a user base cold, no matter how much experience you have. I don't want to jump ship, I want to nudge SEGA on the right path.

it depends I probably wont even be able to and if am able to participate I will voice my opinion expressively on the forums there or in their user submitted feedback, there needs to be changes done to the game still to keep going, of course it looks nice so far but for the long run? we need to see more first to be able to determine that and if I don't see some of these issues addressed in the beta then we could have another game that goes as long as PSO 1& 2 did.

[Tetsaru]

Don't worry about everyone getting to you, failstrom; as someone who recently got a new gaming PC, I share your concerns too, hence why I posted a poll both here (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193561) and on the Facebook group (http://www.facebook.com/groups/PSO2O/377597532265138/) about how they felt about a port to Vita. Apparently, most people were cool with it, although I don't share their sentiment.

A lot of people who frequently visit these forums can tell you that a few years back, I was pretty overzealous about how horribly Sonic Team was handling PSU (let's face it, most of their games after Sonic Adventure 2 and before Sonic Colors sucked one way or another, lol), to the point where I was banned from posting in the PSU section for a while because most people here complained about my ranting. Granted, I probably deserved it, but at the same time, a lot of my concerns were censored and/or edited, especially on the official Sega forums (the GM's even had "what do you like/don't like about PSU" threads up at the time :rolleyes: ), and I just wanted to get my voice heard, and let someone important know that HEY - something's not right here. Some people just can't take criticism or respect dissenting opinions, I guess... corporate agendas don't help either. Although I admit, it was fun getting the chance to "roast" GM Edward when he visited PSOW after the official forums were hacked (props to whoever did that, btw ;) ), despite him trolling us back with the "360 is a different version" bullshit... I swear, Microsoft's probably the only thing keeping PSU alive on the 360 right now... :disapprove:

At this point, I'm both very happy and surprised that Sakai at least addressed the fans' concerns. Sonic Team NEVER had that kind of developer-playerbase interaction with PSU, that's for sure. The new dev team with FF14 has also been doing this since the initial debacle upon release, yet they keep promising "we'll fix it in version 2.0," etc... Both scenarios kinda seem like one of those "wait and see" type of things, yet you can't help but be concerned about how things will unfold. The Vita seems like a pretty capable system, sure, but my concerns are more about how all the cumulative updates, patches, expansions, etc. are going to fit onto a small memory card that can only hold so many GB's worth of data. That, and whether or not they'll have to split up servers again by console and/or region, and in turn, divide up the playerbase...

[astronautcowboy]

@Tetsaru

The Vita currently supports 32gb memory cards. That's the largest size at launch. I'm sure in the future the maximum size will double, if not triple. Considering the base game will probably be on a memory card (with downloadable as an option) that leaves a massive amount of space available for updates.

People who don't want to buy a big enough card can play on the PC or not play at all. I'd guarantee that's the angle SEGA/Sony will take on this one, since many games are already allowed to require a memory card for physical versions. Requiring cards of a certain size is the next logical step.

[Cayenne]

Here's your problem. Most of us here think Sega is doing a good job with PSO2 so far. So until we think they're messing up you're on your own.

this...like 100 1/2 times.

Most of us are on board with SEGA and at the same time we also have concerns. There's a big difference between that and plain out negativity.

[NNYdust*]

This Looks More Likely true also what ever shall we do friends.I say just make an offline and Online for the U.S version.Well it is a sequel :-o:-?

[Spellbinder]

@Tetsaru

The Vita currently supports 32gb memory cards. That's the largest size at launch. I'm sure in the future the maximum size will double, if not triple. Considering the base game will probably be on a memory card (with downloadable as an option) that leaves a massive amount of space available for updates.

People who don't want to buy a big enough card can play on the PC or not play at all. I'd guarantee that's the angle SEGA/Sony will take on this one, since many games are already allowed to require a memory card for physical versions. Requiring cards of a certain size is the next logical step.

I'm going to have to go with this, if only for the fact that Sakai said himself Vita players are more than likely going to need a good memory card to play.

[HappierWorlds]

104 people replied to this bull s*** of a thread?
Is this *insert bad gaming site here?
I mean seriously, do NOT feed this troll any further.

Perhaps topic poster should set up a Tumblr protesting SEGA's decision?
Perhaps TC should set up an #Occupy group?
Maybe write some letters to SEGA of Japan & U.S.?
Or stage a protest in front of the White House?

THIS IS MADNESS.
NO, this is SPARTA.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8r3cWM4JII

May this troll thread and all the madness be relegated to the dustbin of history. Where crazy people go to DIE.

[eclipsXe]

Wouldn't call this guy a troll, he's scared of a repeat and history and wants PSO2 to be at it's best so he went and did something about it. That's what the gaming community needs right now, BUT the bad thing about this protest is that you don't know what will happen and are making assumptions and if this somehow worked you could be stopping something that would of been great for this game. This generation of consoles can't not be blamed if a game fails, it will always point to the developers and will always be their fault.

Last Post on this thread I swear :)

[Cayenne]

A lot of people on here take every thread and topic sooo seriously when they shouldn't, like ever.

[Dragwind]

I can definitely see the legitimate reasons for concern here, but I'm hoping that the Vita version won't be a hindrance to the development team's work and upkeep of the game. I figure if things get too sour, they'll just drop the Vita version early like they did to the PS2 version :-P (just kidding of course)

I'm pretty sure no amount of protest is going to stop the Vita version from happening. If you consider the popularity of handhelds (in JP) and the online action rpg market for the Vita, Sega is going to attract a lot of new players to the game with the Vita version alone.

tl;dr Vita version is going to bring in enough $$ that it can't be stopped. I'm definitely sticking with PC though, possibly playing both versions.

[failstrom]

If they run into problems, they will separate the Vita players from the PC players. While cross-platform play would be nice if it hampers the PC version then it will be cut, just like PSU 360 was separate from PC players.

This is really all anybody could ask for, but I'm worried they'll handle it poorly and wait until it's too late.


Here's your problem. Most of us here think Sega is doing a good job with PSO2 so far. So until we think they're messing up you're on your own. It's just as simple as that. Believe me if Sega drops the ball on this all heck will break loose trust me.

Many people were upset by the announcement. I get that a lot of you here are loyal to SEGA, but I tried not to address them, and that came out as confrontational. Nobody here thinks SEGA's doing a perfect job, and I think this was the biggest misstep they've made yet. I don't like item binding, but it doesn't carry the potential for ruining the game to me. I'm sure I'll learn to love it.

Also as a side note to you, I'm super happy with the game. It's...different than PSU/PSO but I like it. I think the changes are better (OMG WTF HAX RUNNING AND SHOOTING???)


it depends I probably wont even be able to and if am able to participate I will voice my opinion expressively on the forums there or in their user submitted feedback, there needs to be changes done to the game still to keep going, of course it looks nice so far but for the long run? we need to see more first to be able to determine that and if I don't see some of these issues addressed in the beta then we could have another game that goes as long as PSO 1& 2 did.

I really hope you get to participate in the beta. It's a super fun experience (albeit one that's had a weird hours). I don't like to think that PSO 1 and 2 are the limits here, though. I played the original series, as well as online, and the games have changed drastically. I want to see a game like WoW (only less suck) that really just outdoes everybody's expectations. Playing PSO2 I really think it has the potential for that if they keep up the good work and common sense approach to fan feedback.



The Vita seems like a pretty capable system, sure, but my concerns are more about how all the cumulative updates, patches, expansions, etc. are going to fit onto a small memory card that can only hold so many GB's worth of data. That, and whether or not they'll have to split up servers again by console and/or region, and in turn, divide up the playerbase...

I agree with this entirely. What size they say the require upon release will be a limiting factor so long as the servers remain up, and a limiting factor that should not be felt by PC users. Times change a lot of the years, and the PS2 was certainly a limiting factor on PSU's updates (at the end, they weren't even getting updates, just stat changes to A rank generics). It took a system that came out years after the release of the game to handle everything properly.

That being said, as an alpha tester you certainly feel that they're paying attention to what you say as a group, but I think individual concerns tend to get lost in all of it. Will you be beta testing with me?


@Tetsaru
People who don't want to buy a big enough card can play on the PC or not play at all. I'd guarantee that's the angle SEGA/Sony will take on this one, since many games are already allowed to require a memory card for physical versions. Requiring cards of a certain size is the next logical step.

But it hasn't been done yet. It -could- have been done on PS2. As I said before, PS2 had an optional 40 gigabyte hard drive. That would have solved the PS2 server's update issues, but they opted for dropping it entirely. It's not uncommon for current day games on a computer to exceed 12 gigabytes. Would they require a 16 gigabyte card? That's an additional 60 dollar expense and would significantly deter potential customers. I'd guarantee that whatever makes the most money will be done by SEGA.


This Looks More Likely true also what ever shall we do friends.I say just make an offline and Online for the U.S version.Well it is a sequel :-o:-?

It's not any more a sequel than any of the final fantasy series. I agree though personally, offline mode couldn't possibly be a bad thing, but it may be a waste of time. In PSU people only used it when the servers were down. I only used it to test PAs before I wasted 99 fragments on them.


Wouldn't call this guy a troll, he's scared of a repeat and history and wants PSO2 to be at it's best so he went and did something about it. That's what the gaming community needs right now

I don't think a protest would be beneficial any longer. After such a wide-range of level-headed responses, I think a staged-demonstration would be a better move. Nothing detrimental to SEGA, only a show of numbers more or less.



I'm pretty sure no amount of protest is going to stop the Vita version from happening. If you consider the popularity of handhelds (in JP) and the online action rpg market for the Vita, Sega is going to attract a lot of new players to the game with the Vita version alone.


Sorry, I forgot you. I don't and wouldn't want the Vita version to not happen. I think it would be a move with nothing to gain. I want to see the best possible outcome, and make sure the opinions against a shared server are heard. *That* is something that can be accomplished, and it also shows my personal trust in SEGA's attentiveness to fans (Although I think Sakai is the one on the ball here).

[moorebounce]

Many people were upset by the announcement. I get that a lot of you here are loyal to SEGA, but I tried not to address them, and that came out as confrontational. Nobody here thinks SEGA's doing a perfect job, and I think this was the biggest misstep they've made yet. I don't like item binding, but it doesn't carry the potential for ruining the game to me. I'm sure I'll learn to love it.

Also as a side note to you, I'm super happy with the game. It's...different than PSU/PSO but I like it. I think the changes are better (OMG WTF HAX RUNNING AND SHOOTING???)

I wasn't happy or upset about the annoucement. I will be peeved if the PSVita version interferes with the PC version. If they have a separate team doing the conversion I'll be okay with that.

[r00tabaga]

If they share character data but use seperate servers, I'll be happy.
If they share character data and use same servers, I'll be very happy.
If they bring both versions to the states, I will be divorced.

[NoiseHERO]

If they share character data but use seperate servers, I'll be happy.
If they share character data and use same servers, I'll be very happy.
If they bring both versions to the states, I will be divorced.

Guess we know whose getting the kids.

r00ta's kids on their weekend visit: "We love you daddy!"
r00a: "I love you too PSO2!"

[failstrom]

If they share character data but use seperate servers, I'll be happy.
If they share character data and use same servers, I'll be very happy.
If they bring both versions to the states, I will be divorced.

You've also made it very clear that you're an avid vita supporter. The point from the PC's point of view is that, much like with PS2, Vita would be parasitic.

[r00tabaga]

And you are obviously not keeping up on current news. It has been told over and over and over again that SEGA is aware of concerns and have addressed them...and Sony has made it possible for devs to patch and update the Vita whenever needed.
Sakai has said that he's confident that, with PSVs power, it will run PSO2 on high PC levels. 3G users won't be able to mess anything up b/c theyre likely gonna have limited access outside of wifi zones.

PC guys are upset? I'm so sorry. I never got to play Infinty. Boo hoo is all I'm saying. What's a petition gonna really do? He's said from the beginning that there would be a console version as well as PC and Vita was the "logical" choice. Ok I'm rambling...time to go home anyways. It's late!

[blazingsonic]

Wait there's gonna be a console version? I wonder which console...... Heh this reminds me of the days when ever a a hope for a console release topic showed up people jump down on that person's back yelling "IT'S GONNA BE FOR PC ONLY!!!!!!!!" I thought it would be an odd move for Sega to alienate long time console players, I wonder if they were learning how DC Universe online does it. Oh well whatever happens, happens.

[Vashyron]

Vita is the "Console."

r00tabaga you need to understand that not everyone would put faith into what someone who is trying to sell their product is saying.

[•Col•]

r00tabaga you need to understand that not everyone would put faith into what someone who is trying to sell their product is saying.

^This.

If the Vita really would be limiting to the PC version in any way(which I still believe there is a strong possibility of), they wouldn't just come out and say it. That is, unless Sega actually enjoys their fan shitstorms. :l

[failstrom]

Vita is the "Console."

r00tabaga you need to understand that not everyone would put faith into what someone who is trying to sell their product is saying.

At least one person would. I suspect many more. It's our job as the opposing force to put forth our point of view as accurately as possible and let people form their own opinions based on facts each side can provide. Would you be willing to help?


^This.

If the Vita really would be limiting to the PC version in any way(which I still believe there is a strong possibility of), they wouldn't just come out and say it. That is, unless Sega actually enjoys their fan shitstorms. :l

Sometimes I wonder...

[Spellbinder]

At least one person would. I suspect many more. It's our job as the opposing force to put forth our point of view as accurately as possible and let people form their own opinions based on facts each side can provide. Would you be willing to help?



Sometimes I wonder...

So far this whole thread's been drowning in speculation. I still say we wait for them to test the Vita so we have facts to form an opinion about the matter. It's coming to Vita whether we want it to or not, the least we can do is wait to make an informed opinion on "no, it would be better for it to run parallel to the pc" or "yes, it should be run together with the pc."

I'm glad they want to expand the game, but I can't vote either way until I see hard evidence of its performance and capability with this game.

[failstrom]

So far this whole thread's been drowning in speculation. I still say we wait for them to test the Vita so we have facts to form an opinion about the matter. It's coming to Vita whether we want it to or not, the least we can do is wait to make an informed opinion on "no, it would be better for it to run parallel to the pc" or "yes, it should be run together with the pc."

I'm glad they want to expand the game, but I can't vote either way until I see hard evidence of its performance and capability with this game.

You know, if the world were sunshine and rainbows, I'd totally agree with you. I'm just worried for another relationship that starts out as symbiosis with each console benefiting each other and then turning in to SEGA having to cut off the leg to keep the toe's infection at bay as it were. There is no amount of testing that they could do, save planning the next 5 year's updates in advance, that would give them an accurate idea of what the vita will need to handle.

[Cayenne]

Damn dude, it's just a PC game being ported over to a gameboy. It can and will be done right and SEGA will prove it.

Just have a seat right over there...

[Spellbinder]

You know, if the world were sunshine and rainbows, I'd totally agree with you. I'm just worried for another relationship that starts out as symbiosis with each console benefiting each other and then turning in to SEGA having to cut off the leg to keep the toe's infection at bay as it were. There is no amount of testing that they could do, save planning the next 5 year's updates in advance, that would give them an accurate idea of what the vita will need to handle.

So, you're saying we should just go on a rampage and protest based on rumors and hearsay? I'm gonna have to agree with Cayenne.


Just have a seat right over there...

[r00tabaga]

This dude is a crusader. I admire his passion but detest his persistance. This thread is his brain child, please dont disagree with him.

Everyone keeps saying how bad psu was on both and sega has too. Can they fuvk it up again, sure. Tech is better now than PS2 & I think it will work AT least on sep-servers.

[failstrom]

So, you're saying we should just go on a rampage and protest based on rumors and hearsay? I'm gonna have to agree with Cayenne.

You're altering facts to agree with you. It is hardly a rampage and hardly based on rumors.

[NoiseHERO]

What is it based off of?

Experience?

PSU came out on PS2 not Vita.

[Spellbinder]

You're altering facts to agree with you. It is hardly a rampage and hardly based on rumors.

There are no facts here to alter.

[blace]

All this ranting about the past doesn't hold water.

Take PSU for example. It was a game that was made on three systems, Playstation 2, PC and Xbox 360. The only problem I see was that the planned release on PS2 hindered the game, what with needing an add on hard drive and that it couldn't hold up to well against the other two. PC was upgradeable and had a hard drive Xbox was next gen and had those problems solved to a fault. However this time around they're putting it on PC and on a handheld with current gen tech.

I don't imagine that we'll be needing extensive gaming rigs to run PSO 2 with it's current requirements. Granted the Vita could do better, but you have to understand the game is nowhere near finished for the Vita. This protest of yours is also rather one sided. Most of the replies I'm seeing is "wait and see", yet you're saying it'll be horrible and lacking. Are you from the future or something? Unless that's the case we just won't know until it's completion in 2013.

[failstrom]

Most of the replies I'm seeing is "wait and see", yet you're saying it'll be horrible and lacking. Are you from the future or something? Unless that's the case we just won't know until it's completion in 2013.

Please provide an instance where I said it will be and not could be so that I can correct it.

[blace]

I would look through the whole 13 some pages, but alas that is hindered by a handheld.

I do understand the concerns, but just let it happen. Doesn't hurt to have them resolve other issues that can arise in the next nine months before they get the Vita off the ground.

[ShinMaruku]

You know it should be really put as psu was hindered by incompetence.

[Cephei Mordred]

I see no reason why this should be an issue for anyone.

[Ark22]

PSU did WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better on the psp. Sales would sky rocket in Japan.

[NoiseHERO]

┏━━━━━━━----━┓
┃　 ／ 　 　 　 　 ＼　┃PSO2
┃／ 　 　 　 　 　 　＼┃
┃ 　 　 　 　 　 　 　 ┃
┃　　　 　ﾉﾉ).　　　　┃
┃　　　 彡⌒ヾ.　　 　 ┃
┃　　　 ＠-0,,0　　 　┃
┃　　 　 ゝア.　　　 ┃
┃　　　 (|＿|)　 　 ┃
┃　　　　｜｜. 　 　 ┃
┗━━━━━━━━-----

Hehehe...

[r00tabaga]

@The Artist formally known as Michaeru:
U think Victory is off the table now for Vita? I would love for the portable series to continue...plus it will appease the off-line crowd.

[Kion]

After reading though 136 posts, I feel like i can throw my hat in the ring.

For the vita, I can see why sega is going for it. After writing the game, they probably found they could easily port it to another platform and make more money. They might as well. As for 3G, Japan actually has pretty good speeds, I get 1.5MB down and 1MB up on my iPhone. Not the fastest, but depending on how they manage it, it may only be a couple of KB up/down that they actually need to communicate with with client. So I don't see speed being too much of a problem.

As for will it be a hindrance?That really remains to be seen. The devs said they'd be testing for compatibility. Will that slow down the pc servers? Probably not. The only thing that worries me and remains to be seen is how Sega responds to world-wide support. They really don't have a good track record. If it looks like they're going to ignore western players again, then it would probably be prudent for everyone to download the jp pc client and patch it with english.

[NoiseHERO]

@The Artist formally known as Michaeru:
U think Victory is off the table now for Vita? I would love for the portable series to continue...plus it will appease the off-line crowd.

Artist maybe, but I didn't draw that erm... sakai made of japanese text, pasted from 2ch, just incase anyone was wondering

And Victory might have the codename for this project I dunno. D:

I'm think I'm done with PSU's universe, I still think a whole new story and setting would be more interesting. Like what they did with PSZ.

[Setsuna00G]

I usually never post here, but this is an interesting topic. The truth is vita will hinder PC players in many ways, that is not even an argument. The question is how "much" will it affect PC players overall experience of the game. Is the trade off worthy? With PSO2 being a MMORPG, no it is not worthy. The only solution is for vita players to be put on their own servers. What ppl have to understand is vita might have limitations that are "acceptable" today, but what about two years from now? I don't care how many devs you have working on it and how much support you going to give it, there is only so little you can do in a situation like this.

[blace]

It'll probably end up like how PSU was, in the start PS2, PC and 360 drop the PS2 servers in favor of PC(Japan) and 360. It'll most likely cater to it's regional citizens more than the ones outside of it.

Of course things change, that is always expected, PSO 2 could be outdated when comparing to other notable games that are being released this year.

[SilverFoxR]

Vita will hold back the game's capabilities and limit updates to only what a portable system can handle, particularly with large-scale events being virtually impossible

You realize the Vita is almost on par with the Playstation 3 (in some cases stronger) and ultimately would have similar if not better specs than the standard PC version would allow, right?

If you wanted to make PSO2 too much for the Vita to handle, most people would have to upgrade their computers to almost Crysis-level performance in order to play it.


Here's an idea - quit whining over the issue now and just wait. The game hasn't even hit it's first beta yet and you're in total s***-fit mode for the Vita being (potentially) cross-compatible (they said it might become a separate version if things don't work as initially planned)? Seriously, calm down and show a little patience, would ya?

[Kion]

Vita might actually be a good move. PC gaming hasn't really caught on in Japan, so I can imagine that a large part of the player base wanted to be able to play it on a console. As opposed to xbox 360 and ps3; the vita is at the beginning of it's life cycle and should be around for a while. Also PSP2∞ showed that updates and content can be downloaded to the memory card, so I don't understand what all of the whining is about.

There were tons of topics about PSO2 coming to a console, and when it finally does people whine.

[Setsuna00G]

You realize the Vita is almost on par with the Playstation 3 (in some cases stronger) and ultimately would have similar if not better specs than the standard PC version would allow, right?

If you wanted to make PSO2 too much for the Vita to handle, most people would have to upgrade their computers to almost Crysis-level performance in order to play it.


Here's an idea - quit whining over the issue now and just wait. The game hasn't even hit it's first beta yet and you're in total s***-fit mode for the Vita being (potentially) cross-compatible (they said it might become a separate version if things don't work as initially planned)? Seriously, calm down and show a little patience, would ya?

Not trying to start a war or anything, but what you say is true for low end computers, mid range computers are more powerful than vita. Also vita does not have better or near the performance of a PS3, but it does not matter because vita has its own client that has nothing to do with the PC version. If Sakai wanted to enhance the PC's version graphics, he can do so and it would not interfere with the vita's version of the game.

The real problem is anytime SEGA wants to do an update their going to need Sony's approval and it is going to cost them and it has to be scheduled in advance. This process is going to slow down updates for the PC, but to what degree? Would we have less frequent updates if it is not within SEGA's budget to update the vita version? What if something unexpectedly happens(eg. a bug or a glitch) and it needs to be updated immediately, will both versions be down for a week or will only the vita version be down for a week? There is also the option of ignoring whatever happens and just fix it on the next scheduled update. A cash shop could probably solve most of the above issues and many other issues, but how will the community feel about it?

This would not be much of an issue if it were battlefield 3, but for a MMORPG, this can potentially(or most likely) destroy the game and a lot of consumer's trust. If you are going to whine about it, do it now while it is in development and not later when everything is set in stone. SEGA will wait until the last( and I mean last) minute to split the servers if it is causing problems because it is a big hassle and it will cost additional money. I sure would like to see Sakai's dev team composed of Super Saiyans pull this off.

[r00tabaga]

Setsuna00G



Not paying attention I see. Nobody reads anymore before posting.

[Setsuna00G]

Setsuna00G



Not paying attention I see. Nobody reads anymore before posting.

What do you mean? Did I read every post in this thread? Honestly no, but I did read the one post I replied to. Not understanding your point, I just have been giving "my" opinion of the topic from a programmer's point of view.

[blazingsonic]

Vita is the "Console."

r00tabaga you need to understand that not everyone would put faith into what someone who is trying to sell their product is saying.

I know when I say "Console" I mean the normal ones, Xbox Wii PS3 etc, When I say handheld which mean Vita, 3DS etc.


^This.

If the Vita really would be limiting to the PC version in any way(which I still believe there is a strong possibility of), they wouldn't just come out and say it. That is, unless Sega actually enjoys their fan shitstorms. :l

Limit on how? PS2 I can understand, but I doubt Sega is gonna make this game so big you'll need a 4,000 computer to run it. Didn't they say the Vita will run the game the same way a computer would on max settings?

[r00tabaga]

I know when I say "Console" I mean the normal ones, Xbox Wii PS3 etc, When I say handheld which mean Vita, 3DS etc.

Its always been PC, home consoles and portable consoles to me.

[Setsuna00G]

Limit on how? PS2 I can understand, but I doubt Sega is gonna make this game so big you'll need a 4,000 computer to run it. Didn't they say the Vita will run the game the same way a computer would on max settings?

Yep, Vita is a pretty powerful device but performance should not be a problem because I'm pretty sure vita would have its own version of the client and Sakai's team is working very hard optimizing it.

The real issue is SEGA is trying to do something no other game developing company did "successfully." The 360 is more than capable of running PSU, but we all know what happened with that situation. The fact that the 360 version is using re-skins for new items proves money is an issue in a situation like this, not just the overall process or more specifically the testing portion of it. Lol.

No matter what Sakai says, SEGA -> servers would always be superior to SEGA -> Sony -> servers. How can ppl not understand that?

[shiink]

@Setsuna00G




YES, PSN has stated that DEVS will be able to put out updates without PSN testing. It will be up to the devs to make it on time, which I highly doubt because there will be MINOR bugs in the game that can be fixed.



I think this is what r00tabaga was referring to in regards to the updating issues with the Vita version of PSO2. Essentially SEGA will have full reign when it comes to issuing updates and will not suffer the same issues that SEGA has with Microsoft on PSU.

[9898]

after this forum being around for 11 years you guys should know sega doesn't give a shit, and sony gives more network freedoms than other platforms.

there will be vita and there will be psn.

if there isn't vita it won't be due to a protest.

[Setsuna00G]

@Setsuna00G



I think this is what r00tabaga was referring to in regards to the updating issues with the Vita version of PSO2. Essentially SEGA will have full reign when it comes to issuing updates and will not suffer the same issues that SEGA has with Microsoft on PSU.

Oh lol, I read every post wondering what r00tabaga was talking about. I'm fully aware of that, just because updates are not tested does not eliminate the fact it is going to cost SEGA additional money, SEGA has to schedule updates in advance and have the updates approved by Sony.

Not testing updates and full control over updates are two different things, the process is there for a reason and SEGA will still have to follow the rules period. I've seen Capcom issue out a unscheduled patch in a week on the Xbox 360, so is really just the testing that crippled PSU?

@9898

Oh yes they do care. Money don't grow on trees, SEGA is sinking a lot of money in this project and they want it all back and then some.

[9898]

Oh lol, I read every post wondering what r00tabaga was talking about. I'm fully aware of that, just because updates are not tested does not eliminate the fact it is going to cost SEGA additional money, SEGA has to schedule updates in advance and have the updates approved by Sony.

Not testing updates and full control over updates are two different things, the process is there for a reason and SEGA will still have to follow the rules period. I've seen Capcom issue out a unscheduled patch in a week on the Xbox 360, so is really just the testing that crippled PSU?

@9898

Oh yes they do care. Money don't grow on trees, SEGA is sinking a lot of money in this project and they want it all back and then some.
i implied they didn't give a shit about what people think if you read my post more carefully. the entire reason for vita release is money lol

[Cranberry]

I agree with 9898 on this one. But I still don't get why Sega chose the Vita. I'm not opposed to PSO2 being on a console, in fact I've wanted to see it on one. But Vita... that's like the worst possiblel choice Sega could have made for PSO2. I can't think of a worse console to put it on than Vita.

[Spellbinder]

Sakai's reasoning was that putting it on a console such as the PS3 would be redundant when a user already has another console (the computer) at home. With a portable system (Vita) however, you could not only play it at home if you choose to buy the PC version, but could also take the game with you when you go out allowing you to enjoy the game in and outside the home.

[•Col•]

Sakai's reasoning was that putting it on a console such as the PS3 would be redundant when a user already has another console (the computer) at home. With a portable system (Vita) however, you could not only play it at home if you choose to buy the PC version, but could also take the game with you when you go out allowing you to enjoy the game in and outside the home.

Not only that, but there's a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge market in Japan for Portable online RPGs....

Just look at what Monster Hunter did for 3DS sales.

[Setsuna00G]

i implied they didn't give a shit about what people think if you read my post more carefully. the entire reason for vita release is money lol

Who buys the games monkeys? Lol. I read your post, all of your post. I know SEGA has hurt all of us in the past, but that does not mean they don't care. Sakai just has been nothing short of amazing with how he lets the community get involved in the development process of the game. How many gaming communities can say that? Very few. SEGA has a heart and cares what their consumers think, despite what you believe.

[•Col•]

Who buys the games monkeys? Lol. I read your post, all of your post. I know SEGA has hurt all of us in the past, but that does not mean they don't care. Sakai just has been nothing short of amazing with how he lets the community get involved in the development process of the game. How many gaming communities can say that? Very few. SEGA has a heart and cares what their consumers think, despite what you believe.

Sakai may care...

SEGA does not.

I mean, they're a a large corporation, so it's kinda hard to care... Realistically, they knowingly screw people over all the time for money. It's just natural. Saying "SEGA has a heart" is just silly, lol.

[Setsuna00G]

Sakai may care...

SEGA does not.

I mean, they're a a large corporation, so it's kinda hard to care... Realistically, they knowingly screw people over all the time for money. It's just natural. Saying "SEGA has a heart" is just silly, lol.

Sakai is not alone, he has a team and a company that supports him, he can not do it alone, but I also understand where you are coming from. There is not even a release date yet, makes me wonder does Sakai even have a deadline. It is as if SEGA let him have full control over the project, if so that is super cool.

[failstrom]

You realize the Vita is almost on par with the Playstation 3 (in some cases stronger) and ultimately would have similar if not better specs than the standard PC version would allow, right?

I'm sorry I really don't think you understand that part.

The clock speed on the PSV caps at about 2.0ghz vs PS3's 3.1
The PS3 has just as much RAM, along with dedicated graphics (of course) The Vita's graphics are on par with the ipad and use the same technology. (serious)
The resolution on the vita is limited to 960 × 544 which is about half what the PS3 can pull
The memory supported on a PS3 is over 300 gigs, or 10x the current largest flash card for Vita
I honestly don't know how big the games are but something tells me they aren't 50 gig dual layer bluray discs.

So any way in which way is it stronger you're hiding?


after this forum being around for 11 years you guys should know sega doesn't give a shit, and sony gives more network freedoms than other platforms.

there will be vita and there will be psn.

if there isn't vita it won't be due to a protest.

I personally wouldn't want to remove the vita version, just protect the PC version from leeching off it.


Sakai may care...

SEGA does not.

I'm sad to agree with this.


It is as if SEGA let him have full control over the project, if so that is super cool.

No way that would happen. He has to justify everything he does, he's on their dime.

[Setsuna00G]

@failstrom

Yeah I know and I agree, but we don't have a release date yet and I think he already postponed the first release, i'm not sure.

[Cayenne]

@failstrom: Every issue and every angle has been discussed and looked at, at least more than once in this thread.

Why are you beating a dead horse? Do you just want to have a conversation with random strangers because that's the only reason I see why you are keeping this thread alive.

[LightBreaker]

I'm sorry I really don't think you understand that part.


If you are going to call someone out you probably should check your information before posting anything.


The PS3 has just as much RAM, along with dedicated graphics (of course) PS3's memory is split into two 256MB banks, one reserved for video and one for the system. Vita on the other hand has 512MB dedicated to the system. As far as VRAM goes Vita has 128MB available to the 256MB in use on the PS3. 128MB is more than enough considering the differences in resolution between the two devices.


The resolution on the vita is limited to 960 × 544 which is about half what the PS3 can pullVery few retail ps3 titles run at 1,920 x 1080. For the ones that do a lot is sacrificed in order to maintain that resolution. If PSO2 was to be released on PS3 it would more than likely be running at 1280 x 720.



The memory supported on a PS3 is over 300 gigs, or 10x the current largest flash card for Vita
I honestly don't know how big the games are but something tells me they aren't 50 gig dual layer bluray discs.
There are actually two sources of space available to the Vita.

PlayStation Vita Card (Game): On a 4GB (Current Max) up to 10% can be allocated for patches and updates. That gives about 409MB for patches and updates.
PlayStation Vita Memory Card: Up to 32GB is available. With the lower resolution of the Vita far less space will be needed than its PC counterpart.
Side Note: Both alpha tests were less than 2GB.

What it will all come down to is Sony and whether or not they will give SEGA a pass with regards to their update approval process. I definitely don't want to see a repeat of what happened with PSU on 360.

[Macman]

I don't care about the last couple pages but:


You realize the Vita is almost on par with the Playstation 3 (in some cases stronger) and ultimately would have similar if not better specs than the standard PC version would allow, right?
PFFFFFFHAHAHAHAHAH! Oh my god that is rich.
You a standup comedian? No? You should be.

[Taichi01]

What it will all come down to is Sony and whether or not they will give SEGA a pass with regards to their update approval process. I definitely don't want to see a repeat of what happened with PSU on 360.

This is definitely not an issue anymore.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-08-sony-removed-psn-barriers-for-free-to-play-mmo-dust-514

In short...they "removed" PSN barriers for a F2P MMO.



Off Topic: I don't know if anyone knows this but a leak for the Wii U eShop has been posted a few days ago.

It lists Phantasy Star Online 2 (Launch) under Sega.

http://wii.mmgn.com/News/Huge-WiiU-eShop-Leak

It's all just rumor though but some users on GBATemp claim that the info is from a trusted source who leaked AC3 info early.

[•Col•]

I don't care about the last couple pages but:


PFFFFFFHAHAHAHAHAH! Oh my god that is rich.
You a standup comedian? No? You should be.

Yeah... I'm a little confused... Where exactly would you ge tthe idea that the PS Vita is in any was as powerful as the PS3? o.O

[blazingsonic]

Its always been PC, home consoles and portable consoles to me.

Right...

[Kion]

I'm sorry I really don't think you understand that part.

The clock speed on the PSV caps at about 2.0ghz vs PS3's 3.1
The resolution on the vita is limited to 960 × 544 which is about half what the PS3 can pull

You need to take these two factors into consideration. Because the vita doesn't need to calculate as many pixels it can get the similar performance on a smaller screen.



The memory supported on a PS3 is over 300 gigs, or 10x the current largest flash card for Vita
I honestly don't know how big the games are but something tells me they aren't 50 gig dual layer bluray discs.


There's a difference between MEMORY and STORAGE. Also just because games come on 50GB disks doesn't mean they use all of it.

[shiink]

@failstrom: Every issue and every angle has been discussed and looked at, at least more than once in this thread.

Why are you beating a dead horse? Do you just want to have a conversation with random strangers because that's the only reason I see why you are keeping this thread alive.

Seriously. This thread is soon going to be a PhD course in BS.

There is way too little information available for a version of the game that is only at 10% completion and will be released AFTER the PC version. Instead of arguing about this we would be more productive selling insurance for when the world blows up. Then the vita version might not even happen ;)

[Setsuna00G]

@failstrom: Every issue and every angle has been discussed and looked at, at least more than once in this thread.

Why are you beating a dead horse? Do you just want to have a conversation with random strangers because that's the only reason I see why you are keeping this thread alive.

Every issue has not been covered in this thread and as long as there is possibility that both platforms are going to be on the same server, then the horse is far from dead.

@shiink

Well the problem is, the problem is now. The game can be 0% completed and it still will not matter. Sakai is only testing connectivity(well not exactly, plus other boring stuff) during the beta test, which I am pretty sure vita is going to pass. Vita is cool there is nothing wrong with vita. It is just like you said, we only know little of the situation and that is the problem and which is why PC and vita should not be on the same servers even if vita pass the connectivity tests. We know so little about vita and PSN to merge the servers. It can be smooth the first year and a disaster the second. It involves giving too much trust to Sony who did not even care about the genre until Microsoft stop supporting it. Why give another company that much trust in the first place? It is common sense not to even give a person this level of trust. I would not care if there were merged servers and then separate servers for PC only, because that way SEGA at least have servers that they 100% control.

However, no matter what happens I am still playing this game.

[Cayenne]

Every issue has not been covered in this thread

Uhh, yes it has.

Technically (the only way people on here know how to talk) the horse is not dead but you're more than welcome to continue beating a dying horse with nerf bats...

[Aki_Yoruno]

More like nerd bats.

[shiink]

@Setsuna00G

I totally get where you're coming from. All I'm saying is that SEGA and Sony will carry on with their agendas regardless of what we do. We can only hope that after testing and such Sakai and his team will make the best suited decisions. I think they understand by now that of they want to pull in a lot of revenue from this game it has to be done right. Although they could take a wrong turn at any time As far as Sony goes the best we can hope is that they don't hinder the updating system. I know that Sony is still pretty much in the dog house especially after PSN being shutdown by hackers. (irrelevant to this game, however doesn't make me trust them too much)

[Setsuna00G]

@Setsuna00G

I totally get where you're coming from. All I'm saying is that SEGA and Sony will carry on with their agendas regardless of what we do. We can only hope that after testing and such Sakai and his team will make the best suited decisions. I think they understand by now that of they want to pull in a lot of revenue from this game it has to be done right. Although they could take a wrong turn at any time As far as Sony goes the best we can hope is that they don't hinder the updating system. I know that Sony is still pretty much in the dog house especially after PSN being shutdown by hackers. (irrelevant to this game, however doesn't make me trust them too much)

True, which is why no matter what happens I'm still going to play the game. Just a fanboy voicing his opinions.

[Kion]

http://astheworlddies.com/forum/Smileys/default/icon_flog.gif

[NoiseHERO]

Seriously this whole argument from all 5 sides have been a broken record since the day after the Vita version was announced.

Even saying this thread should be locked would be beating a dead horse. D:

[Sixoul]

I think if people wish to complain about something they should make something better, or what they believe to be better, instead of complaining about it. If it's truly better then the competition will lose out to them. Instead people complain and then continue playing the very thing they protest against.