Anyone else worried about Force?

[•Col•]

So after playing in the 2nd Alpha test and watch a bunch of Force gameplay videos... I'm a little concerned about the Force class. Not even in terms whether they'll be useful or not, because that's a simple matter of changing stats... I'm moreso worried about whether or not they're going to be fun to play.

Hunter was amazingly fun to play.

Ranger was amazingly fun to play.

Force... Just... No... It wasn't COMPLETELY horrible, but I just felt like it was so monotonous. [Charge Tech]-[Release]-[Charge Tech]-[Release]-[Teleport]-[Charge Tech]-[Release]-Repeat...

I guess it doesn't help that I absolutely HATE the walking animation for charging techs. -.-

I'm sure there will be ways to circumvent this in the final game (either by dumping points into certain Force class abilities or having access to more weapon types), but still I'm a little worried. And I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, because I talked to a few friends about it who also played the alpha.

I just feel like they renewedthe Hunter and Ranger classes so much that the Force class just feels dated in PSO2... I dunno... Thoughts? D:

[Mike]

Personally, I've had more fun playing a force in the second alpha than I did playing a force in any other Phantasy Star game.

[Saotome Kaneda]

Personally, I've had more fun playing a force in the second alpha than I did playing a force in any other Phantasy Star game.

For once, being able to do damage without being a burden on the team or being typecast into a healing- and buff/debuff-only support role has made me proud of sticking with FOs throughout all the games.

The charge movement needs a little help(including the bug where you randomly can't jump while charging), but even with the limited techs in the a2 I have had more fun just being able to nuke things than ever before.

Just remember, the beta is gonna have Shifta/Deband, and some Gi-level techs on top of the Talis weapon class, so there's a lot more that we will be able to do. This is also discounting the offensive class abilities like Freeze Blast that most people did not have much time to play with.

[Spellbinder]

I'll admit when I played, what worried me was the need to constantly go into close range combat to restore PP. It seemed a bit unfair in comparison to the ranger who can shoot guns while the class with generally lower defense has to get in close. However, I was relieved to see the developers acknowledged this as something to improve on, and the addition of cards is very interesting since they open up a new way of using techs. I think come beta we'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Ark22]

This is what you do.

Switch Weapon.

BAM DONE, fun as the rest.

[ZER0 DX]

Personally, I've had more fun playing a force in the second alpha than I did playing a force in any other Phantasy Star game.

Same, I had quite a bit of fun with my force and enjoyed using him over my Hunter.

[Mike]

Switch Weapon.
Gunblade in gun mode is the way to go. The Talis may change this though.


Force... Just... No... It wasn't COMPLETELY horrible, but I just felt like it was so monotonous. [Charge Tech]-[Release]-[Charge Tech]-[Release]-[Teleport]-[Charge Tech]-[Release]-Repeat...
You aren't the only one who wasn't thrilled with playing a "charge" force, this I do know. There were several threads about it on the Japanese board during the alpha. Until there are more force weapons, I think this is the way things will work though.

[•Col•]

Gunblade Force doesn't feel like classic Force though... D: It's more of a battle mage way to play...

It just doesn't seem like techs are effective at all unless you charge them... I guess it's kinda hard to balance though, since you have an endless pool of PP to cast techs with... :/

[Spellbinder]

Personally, I think it'd be better if charging was more so for additional effects such as burn, freeze, knock back, etc. Rather than damage. A lot of JP players were also pretty upset about regular techs costing so much for so little if you don't charge them.

[NoiseHERO]

cards, nuff said.

I'm MORE worried about the other two classes weapon choices...

and the fact that there's not a lot in general, bustersword, lance, grenade launcher and "can do everything rifle" wasn't exactly on my favorite weapons lists...

[•Col•]

cards, nuff said.

[Throw Card]-[Charge Tech]-[Release]-[Charge Tech]-[Release]-[Teleport]-[Throw Card]-[Charge Tech]-[Release]-Repeat

<.<

I think a better way to balance it would be to make uncharged techs have a higher chance of inflicting status effects, while charged techs are meant for high damage and any additional effects (such as wider AoE range and such)...

[NoiseHERO]

[Throw Card]-[Charge Tech]-[Release]-[Charge Tech]-[Release]-[Teleport]-[Throw Card]-[Charge Tech]-[Release]-Repeat

<.<

I think a better way to balance it would be to make uncharged techs have a higher chance of inflicting status effects, while charged techs are meant for high damage and any additional effects (such as wider AoE range and such)...

Still looks cooler, and involves more strategy or sets up for more interesting scenarions than just spamming from the the rod.

As well the card still has a ranged normal attack.

If anything ranger looks more boring...

shoot > shoot some more > shoot > walk to the bathroom to take a piss and wash your hands > come back unharmed > shoot > dodgeroll when something comes behind you > repeat

At least with force you have different techs that do different things in different situations, half of em probably being unreleased/developed.

Ranger and force have ALWAYS been overshadowed gameplay wise by hunter, at least like Mike said, in general compared to past games they're more fun. Even though I didn't get to play yet, that, I can still tell.

[•Col•]

The Rifle has a diverse set of PAs to make it interesting.. Not to mention, the traps you get to play with from the Ranger skill tree are pretty fun. Doubting you saw people use them in gameplay videos since it seemed like a lot of people didn't even know how to choose their skills in the alpha. D:

Not to mention that the Gunslash is FAR more Ranger-ish than it is Force-ish... Ranger was DEFINITELY more diverse than Force was in the Alpha. Didn't help that you only got like 4 attack techs to choose from... 2 of which (Barta and Foie) were pretty much the same thing.

[r00tabaga]

So, since I didn't play the 2 alphas, can someone tell me if forcing is more like pso or psu. What I mean is, do you have to use Barta the whole level b/c all enemies are "fire" or is it more diverse like pso? Been wondering this for a while.

[NoiseHERO]

The Rifle has a diverse set of PAs to make it interesting.. Not to mention, the traps you get to play with from the Ranger skill tree are pretty fun. Doubting you saw people use them in gameplay videos since it seemed like a lot of people didn't even know how to choose their skills in the alpha. D:

Not to mention that the Gunslash is FAR more Ranger-ish than it is Force-ish... Ranger was DEFINITELY more diverse than Force was in the Alpha. Didn't help that you only got like 4 attack techs to choose from... 2 of which (Barta and Foie) were pretty much the same thing.

Well any magic class would be boring with only two megaman charge shot attack techs and couple thunderbolts.

You're only still playing like 5% of a game. I'm sure if the alpha was longer than a couple weeks people would start complaining that they could only explore the forest and cave.

Hopefully in the future techs will be more unique and spice things up for people. I didn't get to play the game, and maybe everyone else was brainwashed with how much fun they had in general, but sounds like you're alone on this one. In general all the classes still look way more fun than they were in past games, Force will probably get assed out forever unless they make this game like kingdom hearts or something and make you rely on overpowered magic to mix into your melee combos. /drools at subclass possibilities

@bootybaga: the TECHs should all be diverse and have multiple uses from what I've seen and what we were told.

[Dinosaur]

So, since I didn't play the 2 alphas, can someone tell me if forcing is more like pso or psu. What I mean is, do you have to use Barta the whole level b/c all enemies are "fire" or is it more diverse like pso? Been wondering this for a while.

That sounds about right. At the moment, the areas are basically filled with one type aside from the Darkers who appear everywhere. However, there's a big emphasis on aiming your spells to get the most of it, whether it be taking advantage of AoE to hit multiple enemies or aiming for weak spots. Third Person Shooter aiming and jumping take this to a new level.

I thought Force was really fun to play even with the limited amount of spells in alpha. When we get more spells, I'm sure it will be a blast(literally). So, no, I'm not worried about Force at all. Your job is to cast spells; all of the spells. There's not much more to ask for.


The charge movement needs a little help.

IIRC this was one of the changes in the second alpha.

[Ark22]

Battle Mage is the way to go. I mean when I played PSO and I got my double saber I was happy. I could steal TP and give good combo damage.

[Omega-z]

Force was really fun, Didn't have a problem with PP, But did have that can't jump bug with Charge but I just jump before then charge. lol Actually, I whacked a lot of monster's upside of there head's even with my rod not just using Tech's.

And Gunslash is a Base weapon not Ranger-ish weapon. It's a Long handgun (because of the blade) and a saber which all 3 classes could use in every online PS game I know of, It's just combined this time so what still a good tool for any class.

[•Col•]

And Gunslash is a Base weapon not Ranger-ish weapon. It's a Long handgun (because of the blade) and a saber which all 3 classes could use in every online PS game I know of, It's just combined this time so what still a good tool for any class.

I realize that, but using a Saber on a force just isn't... "iconic", if you know what I mean. >_> Neither is a Handgun.

[Shadownami92]

Battle Mage is the way to go. I mean when I played PSO and I got my double saber I was happy. I could steal TP and give good combo damage.

That's what I did, battle mage is always tons of fun, and since offhand casting is back I will be able to enjoy being able to easily heal myself a bit without having to switch weapons.

There was actually quite a few fun weapons as a Battle Mage, I liked using the Agito, Soul Eater, double saber, and the Grass Assassin Blades (whatever they were called).

PSO2 looks like it's a great game to play as a battle mage, especially with the addition of the teleport dodge thing.

[Kent]

Battle Mage is the way to go. I mean when I played PSO and I got my double saber I was happy. I could steal TP and give good combo damage.
Half of the Forces in PSO had to play as some variant of the battlemage formula to get the most out of their specific statistics and technique bonus setups.

If anyone played a FOmar or FOmarl as a pure caster, they were doing it wrong. They were also doing it wrong if they were playing a FOmar as a "melee force," since that means they're really not taking advantage of both their highest melee attack power and still-pretty-high technique power (and those lovely Gi- techniques).

[Teerack]

Pretty pointless discussion considering no one in this thread has played a force in pso2

[•Col•]

Pretty pointless discussion considering no one in this thread has played a force in pso2

Are you being.... Serious right now? ._.

[Ark22]

Gi-foie + Staggering = SPAM IT TILL IT DIES

[Dinosaur]

Pretty pointless discussion considering no one in this thread has played a force in pso2

Pointless post since you didn't read the thread in the first place.

OT: Just caught a glimpse of new spells in the beta video. One in particular was part of the Grants line, making swords appear from above that get shoved downward. Also saw Gibarta; the range on it is huge and it stays there spitting ice while you can move.

[Remius]

PSO2 Forces:

-Buff un-charged techniques
-Lower un-charged technique cost


And they will instantly become 10x more fun to play. But i really had no issue using my force at all.

The only real issue in terms of FUN that I ran into is that Foie was extremely, extremely OP compared to Barta and especially Zonde. They might want to fix that.

[Reia]

My biggest concern about force is that compared to a ranger they have very good mobility thanks to their stepping skill and way better DPS. I was thinking some sort of buff on the ranger or nerf on the force would be implemented. I thought in most games with this type of combat and I thought that if Force could be nerfed to increase the amount of ranger lovers that dont wanna play force because its better, add a stationary condition when charging up their Spells/TECHs. That way Ranger will still be loved for their mobility while shooting, and making them stationary when firing the rocket launcher.

[Dinosaur]

My biggest concern about force is that compared to a ranger they have very good mobility thanks to their stepping skill and way better DPS. I was thinking some sort of buff on the ranger or nerf on the force would be implemented. I thought in most games with this type of combat and I thought that if Force could be nerfed to increase the amount of ranger lovers that dont wanna play force because its better, add a stationary condition when charging up their Spells/TECHs. That way Ranger will still be loved for their mobility while shooting, and making them stationary when firing the rocket launcher.

SEGA has already increased the move speed on charging techs as well as decreasing their charge time. Also Ranger does not need any buffs. Weak Bullet(double your team's damage on one target) is easily one of the best skills in the game; that alone makes Ranger invaluable for any team.

[Reia]

SEGA has already increased the move speed on charging techs as well as decreasing their charge time. Also Ranger does not need any buffs. Weak Bullet(double your team's damage on one target) is easily one of the best skills in the game; that alone makes Ranger invaluable for any team.

Returning the Ranger to its former PSO self of a supporting fire class? That sounds fine by me then, so now I have no regards about force DPS, if we compare with hunters we can also add the fact that we're comparing an Artillery Cannon with a Tank in terms of survaibility and defense.

[Angelo]

Had more fun with FO than I did with RA and FO has been my least favorite class up until now.

[Omega-z]

Fenrya - I don't think you understand the Thread, It's worried that Force aren't strong enough not the other way around. There was a lot of Ranger's in the Alpha, In fact it was evenly among all three classes. The thing is Ranger was the safest class compared to the other's and can put out damage faster then a Force since the uncharged spells where weak and costly and charging took time. Everything a Force has gotten was needed along time ago. Oh Mirage Escape stops PP regain so, even if you use it you still have to wait a little longer to get pp up then charge it to get pretty good DPS. Standing still would be bad for a force and O.k. Now and then for a Ranger since they can attack further away. That to the launcher would be to OP if you could move with it. Even Force have some pause in there attack when they cast there tech's even tho it's brief.

[NoiseHERO]

I still say cards will be too fun to knock force that + new techs, look way more interesting than than what ranger has right now, in my opinion.

Plus you should be able to recharge your PP while throwing normal cards right? @_@

[Reia]

Fenrya - I don't think you understand the Thread, It's worried that Force aren't strong enough not the other way around. There was a lot of Ranger's in the Alpha, In fact it was evenly among all three classes. The thing is Ranger was the safest class compared to the other's and can put out damage faster then a Force since the uncharged spells where weak and costly and charging took time. Everything a Force has gotten was needed along time ago. Oh Mirage Escape stops PP regain so, even if you use it you still have to wait a little longer to get pp up then charge it to get pretty good DPS. Standing still would be bad for a force and O.k. Now and then for a Ranger since they can attack further away. That to the launcher would be to OP if you could move with it. Even Force have some pause in there attack when they cast there tech's even tho it's brief.

Well back then when I checked in PSO the Force official guides clearly describe them as half combat half support. And the variation between Human and newman was between a more hybrid combat or a more TECH spam. Aside of their individual class bonuses. I know not much about how the Force supports the party. The much I've seen about forces in the livestreams I watched since I didn't got chosed for the alpha is mostly spamming nukes and nothing else. Also The force looks more reliable than other versions, they hit very hard in 1 shot, so defense of the enemy isnt a huge worry at same time. The only thing I dont want to see on a Force is what made them OP in PSO but not in PSU, Being able to cast more than 1 TECH at same time until the previous one has finished taking effect, But for what I know the TECHs will work more like PSU's there, and by that meaning I was talking about the Gifoie/Razonde Newm loopers you used to see all the time in PSOBB that were a gamebreaker.

[•Col•]

^I'd actually like it if they did that.

Use an uncharged Gifoie/Gibarta to cover a wide area, then charge a new spell while the Gifoie/Gibarta is still there.

[Reia]

^I'd actually like it if they did that.

Use an uncharged Gifoie/Gibarta to cover a wide area, then charge a new spell while the Gifoie/Gibarta is still there.

Originally that was the purpose of Gifoie and Gibarta, but Gifoie was more spammed due to DPS. Gladly SEGA wont repeat the same mistake of adding a TECH casting animation cut by half unit that made Gifoie into something overpowered that could spam up to 4-5 Gifoies before the first fades and make an insane DPS, specially in FOnewms. But anyways Colaya, if you try to do that, wont you be seriously wasting PP? You dont have a long TP pool like in the first title anymore.

[NoiseHERO]

Originally that was the purpose of Gifoie and Gibarta, but Gifoie was more spammed due to DPS. Gladly SEGA wont repeat the same mistake of adding a TECH casting animation cut by half unit that made Gifoie into something overpowered that could spam up to 4-5 Gifoies before the first fades and make an insane DPS, specially in FOnewms. But anyways Colaya, if you try to do that, wont you be seriously wasting PP? You dont have a long TP pool like in the first title anymore.

Actually thats an even cooler idea.

Fighting a boss/miniboss or a dangerous mob. You use whatever zelda strategy to knock him down or stun him, then with the limited time you have before he gets up... You just burn a whole pp bar using everything you've got on him!

Or a situation where you'd summon a nanoblast.

[Mike]

Actually thats an even cooler idea.

Fighting a boss/miniboss or a dangerous mob. You use whatever zelda strategy to knock him down or stun him, then with the limited time you have before he gets up... You just burn a whole pp bar using everything you've got on him!

Or a situation where you'd summon a nanoblast.

There were bosses like that in PSP2/i, don't see why they couldn't show up again. You could do it in the alpha too. Knock off the Vol Dragon's tail and it would stop moving allowing you to get up on it's back and attack a weak point.

[AzureAsh]

Honestly, I absolutely loved Force in Alpha 2. Easily the most fun I've had in Force since PSO, considering that I haven't liked them as a class in the entire PSU era this has been a breath of fresh air.

[Ezodagrom]

I played force in the alpha 2, and it was quite fun, since I didn't spend the whole time just charging techs, I would often go into melee range, I would attack physically with the rod and use non-charged techs between combos.

Most likely I would do more damage if I just used charged techs without doing anything else, but I had more fun the way I played.

[Reia]

Well, you mean like in PSO you could hit the Dragon and it would fall, that also happens in PSPo2 but for a shorter amount of time. And yes you can also count some PSPo2/i bosses for that.

And one thing that I want to add that I love about TECHing in this title is that now you can finally aim it with your mouse!

[Dinosaur]

I hate to break it to you Fenrya, but Gifoie spam you speak of still exists. In fact, it's probably better because of the way cards work now. Basically, everything in the game you can think of can be done(tank newman) due to skill trees.

Whether it's actually effective or not is down to player skill and execution =)

[Ark22]

Like I said Gifoie + Staggering effect = SPAM IT WITH FIRE. Great for back attacking enemies too.

[Reia]

I hate to break it to you Fenrya, but Gifoie spam you speak of still exists. In fact, it's probably better because of the way cards work now. Basically, everything in the game you can think of can be done(tank newman) due to skill trees.

Whether it's actually effective or not is down to player skill and execution =)

But! Compared to PSO! We will have to see if SEGA will use what they learned with PSPo2/i and not make every enemy of the game being weak to this kind of strategy, I'm hoping later released stages will have tougher enemies that simple strategy wont work most of the time.

[NoiseHERO]

I'm sure EVERY strategy and build would work against the first level 20 and down group of enemies... that are just in the forest/cave.

[•Col•]

I'm sure EVERY strategy and build would work against the first level 20 and down group of enemies... that are just in the forest/cave.

I've been thinking this as well.

All the people playing the Melee force and thinking it was perfectly fine might not even work once you get past level 30-40. D:

[Dinosaur]

I'm hoping later released stages will have tougher enemies that simple strategy wont work most of the time.

You probably wanna fight these guys then.

[SPOILER-BOX]
They walk towards you with oversized shields that block all damage.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh113/subarashee/pso20120203_223313_020.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Rei-San]

I think one way they can stop charge tech spaming is to add the chain system from PSP2i. Normal tech rack up the counter while charges break the chain for damage.

Also Charged tecs should have some sort of counter on them that makes you save them until you really need it.

[Reia]

You probably wanna fight these guys then.

[SPOILER-BOX]
They walk towards you with oversized shields that block all damage.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh113/subarashee/pso20120203_223313_020.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Megaman Legends and God of War got this kinds of enemies so I'm totally fine and think it will be fun trying.