PSO2 is Free to Play with Cash Shop

[soulpimpwizzurd]

i personally think this is a genius move, however i'm sure there are some of you that disagree. my reasoning being this:

it's hard to word but i'll try my best.

most games that got hyped and were p2p lost popularity and sooner or later they all became f2p, and ended up just becoming pretty stagnate/dead games. i feel like the pso2 team recognized this and thought, "we're in this for the long run, why don't we just skip the p2p stage and go straight to the imminent f2p system?"

if the game was p2p it would cut off many potential players. most people would rather play with their friends, however what if their friends didn't want to pay to play? that person who did pay wouldn't be able to play with their friends, and possibly quit soon after.

i see pso2 as trying to become a highly social game. even more so than it already might have been in psu or psobb.

since pso2 will be f2p and new, -anybody- that wants to try the game will be able to do so upon release, which maximizes the player exposure pso2 would gain from the "new hype" state pso2 would be in once it releases.

i see most p2p games ending up doing this in reverse kind of. they try to maximize the new hyped up state of the game by making it p2p and making as much money as possible, however once the game is old and beaten and barely anybody plays it, they go to a f2p + cash shop / premium kinda payment style. this is why i am interested in how this will fold out, pso2 is starting out right away as a f2p with cash shop and probably will never go p2p.

*by hyped up state i mean how a new game generally is very interesting and most people want to try it because it's new.

so what do you think? do you think f2p is a good thing? do you think it should have been p2p?

i personally not only think f2p will bring sega more money, but am also happy because most of my friends would not have wanted to play if it was p2p.

-------
there's also the argument that if pso2 goes f2p there's smaller chance it'll be licensed and available for english /international service. honestly i'm not sure on this one. if it's an issue of connecting though, i don't doubt english UI patches will be quickly made by fans, as well as guides on how to connect if there is an ip block (i think there's a high chance for an ip block. monster hunter JP had a pretty strong ip block, it wasn't easy to get around, at least i don't think anybody got around it. however some ip blocks are quite easy to get around like dragonnest JP)

[•Col•]

If they implement it right they could make FAR more money than they would have made with a subscription based model. Most likely a good move on Sega's part.

[NoiseHERO]

I'm more neutral but I'd prefer it being p2p, so I'm just gonna vote the second one.

[Spellbinder]

I'm more neutral but I'd prefer it being p2p, so I'm just gonna vote the second one.

Pretty much in the same boat.

[Seth Astra]

I approve. Partially because I couldn't play it otherwise, and partially because, as the OP pointed out, they'd probably make more money. Especially here in the US, where the fanbase is small, and thus with this they can make far more off of those willing to spend big on CS content than they would off of subscriptions.

[BIG OLAF]

If they implement it right they could make FAR more money than they would have made with a subscription based model. Most likely a good move on Sega's part.

A good move on SEGAs part, but it could (<---keyword) be very bad news for players. JP PSU has many, many things that revolve around GUARDIANS Cash (their Cash Shop), and it alienates a lot of content.

Hopefully SEGA tweaks the design a bit. if they do, I suppose I'll be for this switch.

[•Col•]

A good move on SEGAs part, but it could (<---keyword) be very bad news for players. JP PSU has many, many things that revolve around GUARDIANS Cash (their Cash Shop), and it alienates a lot of content.

Hopefully SEGA tweaks the design a bit. if they do, I suppose I'll be for this switch.

Yeah, they totally could screw us over with the cash shop.

Waiting to actually see it in action before I judge it, though.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

what kind of content did it alienate? i never played psu so i don't know.

sakai stated that the fundamentals of the game will be able to be played by f2p players, and it seemed like he tried to make it clear cash shop be mostly based off of accessories/clothes/non-gamebreaking weapons.

[Vashyron]

A good move on SEGAs part, but it could (<---keyword) be very bad news for players. JP PSU has many, many things that revolve around GUARDIANS Cash (their Cash Shop), and it alienates a lot of content.

Hopefully SEGA tweaks the design a bit. if they do, I suppose I'll be for this switch.


Nope? Lets see Guardians cash can give you a chance at getting some clothing, a few weapons which aren't even that great and a failsafe on grinding + upgrading weapon's elements.


That's hardly much compared to whats already obtainable freely and what you can do without spending a dime.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Nope? Lets see Guardians cash can give you a chance at getting some clothing, a few weapons which aren't even that great and a failsafe on grinding + upgrading weapon's elements.


That's hardly much compared to whats already obtainable freely and what you can do without spending a dime.

well wasn't psu p2p so technically speaking you were still paying that way right? it's just that guardians cash was a way they could make extra money. like a p2p game with cash shop lol

[rezakon]

GW2 F2P (technically)
PSO2 F2P
Planetside 2 F2P

... My wallet is feeling the love lately.

I don't mind the cash shop, it works well in most games but the biggest thing to avoid is pay2win and if they can avoid that it'll be fine.

Keep the cash shop to "premium cosmetic items" and content = win.

[Mike]

*if a mod sees this, could they edit my poll to have a "I am neutral / don't care" option to the poll?*
Done.


there's also the argument that if pso2 goes f2p there's smaller chance it'll be licensed and available for english /international service.
I think it could swing either way. Lots of freemiums come out in English. As for IP blocking, that doesn't seem to have happened with PSU so, with any luck, it won't happen with PSO2. The best-case scenario is that everybody shares the same server though.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Done.


I think it could swing either way. Lots of freemiums come out in English. As for IP blocking, that doesn't seem to have happened with PSU so, with any luck, it won't happen with PSO2. The best-case scenario is that everybody shares the same server though.

wasn' final fantasy 11 online really interesting because both english and japanese players played on the same server? they had some kind of real time translating thing that went on.

if they did that for this game it would be realllllly cool imo. btw thanks for the poll edit mike!

[Vashyron]

well wasn't psu p2p so technically speaking you were still paying that way right? it's just that guardians cash was a way they could make extra money. like a p2p game with cash shop lol

PSU JP has a Free Mode and a P2P mode, features of the free course. (http://psupedia.info/Free_course)

Most restrictions there like no trading or not being able to access room I can't see happening in PSO2 with the Cash shop and if I'm correct there is no sub mode.

[NoiseHERO]

Too bad I already vot- wait it's not that important. D<

Still more mad that the fists were a lie. D:

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Too bad I already vot- wait it's not that important. D<

Still more mad that the fists were a lie. D:

fists were a lie? waddya mean, did you want a fist weapon like godhand lol.

there's still time, i wouldn't say they don't have a barehand weapon in future plans.

[Crystal_Shard]

Gonna wait for the neutral poll option before voting. ^_^

Having it F2P I feel, gets a few things out of the way of success, especially the whole inertia problem of getting people to even try the game in the first place. I think Sega must have made such a killing selling DLC outfits and themed weapons in the portable games that monetizing PSO2 solely from DLC sales must have made sense to the higher ups. (I'm one of those who bought quite a bit of DLC after all) It also means that I don't have to worry about a constant drip of funds flowing out of my credit cards, and that my card won't be floating out in the internet until I choose to allow it to do so.

However, this means Sega will spend more time fighting off bots, spammers and other unsavoury types, and so will we. Two concerns in particular - how secure is the client from attempts to spread malware (I have little faith in Gameguard personally) and how well will Sega safeguard the server side info? For the moment, I think it's safe to keep faith in Sakai's efforts, but I'll be constantly revising that opinion until the servers close or I stop playing.

One other side concern of mine - does this mean that saved characters will have an expiry date? I can foresee underused characters being deleted after some time, lest Sega's servers get overloaded eventually.

[NoiseHERO]

fists were a lie? waddya mean, did you want a fist weapon like godhand lol.

there's still time, i wouldn't say they don't have a barehand weapon in future plans.

There IS barehanded punching.

But there's no weapon for it...

Which makes bare handed punching is a pointless and weak gimmicks until they DO make real fist weapons. Which makes me butthurt.

[Razelis]

Hello weekly cash shop updates

Hello 30 inventory slots purchase 30 more for cash

Goodbye myroom you need a 30 days cash ticket to access it

Goodbye being able to access storage from anywhere, you need 30 days ticket to access it

Editing your character appearance / hairstyle/ body = cash

i could continue the list more but im already depressed enough ( ' ^ '

people forget that Cash could could be gamebreaking even if it doesnt sell weapons. Anyway I agree that SEGA will make more money that way though but not from me lol

[Enforcer MKV]

Hello weekly cash shop updates

Hello 30 inventory slots purchase 30 more for cash

Goodbye myroom you need a 30 days cash ticket to access it

Goodbye being able to access storage from anywhere, you need 30 days ticket to access it

Editing your character appearance / hairstyle/ body = cash

i could continue the list more but im already depressed enough ( ' ^ '

people forget that Cash could could be gamebreaking even if it doesnt sell weapons. Anyway I agree that SEGA will make more money that way though but not from me lol

Assumptions =/= final game. We don't know HOW this is being implemented yet, so I say it's best to wait until we have more information. So far, I'm choosing to be optimistic. We gotta have a little faith.

Also, Knuckles please! NOT just barehanded!

[rezakon]

Editing your character appearance / hairstyle/ body = cash



If you watch the beta brief video the customization shop is still a shop in game so I don't think you need to freak out on that one. We just have to wait to see if it uses points or mesta but I'm picking mesta with additions to CC being bought from the cash shop and you use you mesta to alter your appearance (works as a interesting mesta sink).

[Angelo]

I really saw this coming.

The f2p model makes much more money in the current market that is saturated with online games.

I see this as an amazing step forward, along with the 'social' version of the game to chat with friends and check your shop... Sega has really been doing their homework lately. They've been on a roll ever since Sonic Generations. I don't know what this second wind of theirs is all about, but I like it.

[ShadowDragon28]

Ok.. let's **not** ASSUME the worst. Man, the anti F2P doom & gloomers are jumping to conclusions on this message board.

How about a little more positive speculation? hm?:

This is just **speculation**

I predict the Arc Cash Shop may contain:

1) Special "extra", or themed Clothing or "Fan-Service" Costumes.

2) Vanity Accessories (items worn on the head or face like Neko Ears, crazy sun glasses, Face Tattoos, body tattoos)

3) Mag evolution boosting Devices

4)Exclusive Room Decorations (like special inter-active ones, like a Juke Box, or that Dart Board.)

5) Special themed/fan-service Room Re-Decoration Tickets.

6) Extra Storage Box Storage.

7) Exclusive Music Discs (Burning Rangers Theme, Sonic Adventure theme, PSO 1 Music tracks...) that can be played on a Juke Box Decoration that is also in the Arc's cash shop.

8 ) Re-naming any weapon you have.

These are just some of the things that they possibly could have in the Arcs Cash Shop.

[Mike]

Here's a wonderful info-graphic from the official site (http://pso2.jp/concept/ubiquitous/) with a few examples of the cash shop items that may be available:

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1789&pictureid=25745
It's kind of hard to tell what's in the first mini-screenshot but the second and third ones are easy. Room decorations, costumes, and hairstyles.

[Angelo]

I am actually really excited for this, as it forces them to make new content if they want to make a profit.

It also feels like the only thing that could result with a localization is more gain on their behalf. This will keep the game floating internationally for a very long time, longer than PSU.

[drizzle]

It seems to work well for JP PSU so this was to be expected. I'll just be sad if makeovers and things like that are all cash-only, they usually are in F2P games... but I wouldn't have an issue with an unlocking system where you pay once, and can change any time you like.

Well we'll see! Looks like finding the game box won't be an issue this time at least ;)

[LiquidFriend]

I think free to play will be a positive thing. The stateside PSO community seemed a lot more active until they went to a P2P model starting with Version 2.

Yeah I see the reason why some people are being narcissistic, but it seems they are heading in the right direction with this game so lets see how it all works out first.

[Razelis]

Ok.. let's **not** ASSUME the worst. Man, the anti F2P doom & gloomers are jumping to conclusions on this message board.

How about a little more positive speculation? hm?:

This is just **speculation**

I predict the Arc Cash Shop may contain:

1) Special "extra", or themed Clothing or "Fan-Service" Costumes.

2) Vanity Accessories (items worn on the head or face like Neko Ears, crazy sun glasses, Face Tattoos, body tattoos)

3) Mag evolution boosting Devices

4)Exclusive Room Decorations (like special inter-active ones, like a Juke Box, or that Dart Board.)

5) Special themed/fan-service Room Re-Decoration Tickets.

6) Extra Storage Box Storage.

7) Exclusive Music Discs (Burning Rangers Theme, Sonic Adventure theme, PSO 1 Music tracks...) that can be played on a Juke Box Decoration that is also in the Arc's cash shop.

8 ) Re-naming any weapon you have.

These are just some of the things that they possibly could have in the Arcs Cash Shop.

That doesn't look positive to me.
Positive for me would be to pay monthly and have all the access to what yuo just listed - but that's me.

[Angelo]

That doesn't look positive to me.
Positive for me would be to pay monthly and have all the access to what yuo just listed - but that's me.

Yes, but it's very easy to rally up new players (friends and family) when you inch them in with the f2p idea.

More players means a bigger community which means a better game overall.

The money would you spend to 'keep up' with in the cash shop is probably less than what you'd pay with a monthly fee, especially if you're cutting out all the fat (things you don't want and would never use in the game either way).

Everyone wins this way, the players and the developers.

[Razelis]

Yes, but it's very easy to rally up new players (friends and family) when you inch them in with the f2p idea.

More players means a bigger community which means a better game overall.

The money would you spend to 'keep up' with in the cash shop is probably less than what you'd pay with a monthly fee, especially if you're cutting out all the fat (things you don't want and would never use in the game either way).

Everyone wins this way, the players and the developers.

PSU community been fun for me even though it was small. I agree that F2P lures more players which is why i said it will make them more money.

What i dont agree with - Bigger community = better game overall
as I said I had a lot of fun in PSU's small community

just like mine is speculations, yours is as well. I'm just stating my disappointment in the system

I just think unlike most people here that when Sakai says " it wont be expensive, and we wont sell swords" thats just common sense for him to say that. he wont go and say "its super expensive we're ruining your game dont buy or download it ever!"

Thats called marketing. (and my job happens to be in marketing and advertsing. the main rule is - lie as MUCH as you can as long as it doesnt break the law)

[maxx69]

The F2P model can be EXTREMELY lucrative. Take a look at League of Legends.

I just hope that there will be a lot of free hairstyles.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Yes, but it's very easy to rally up new players (friends and family) when you inch them in with the f2p idea.

More players means a bigger community which means a better game overall.

The money would you spend to 'keep up' with in the cash shop is probably less than what you'd pay with a monthly fee, especially if you're cutting out all the fat (things you don't want and would never use in the game either way).

Everyone wins this way, the players and the developers.

yeah this is the biggest reason f2p games can have more potential, more players have access. it really does blow when you really like a game and you want a buddy to hop on with you but s/he wont because it's p2p.

[astronautcowboy]

I voted "don't care" because PSO TWOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Fayorei]

So this is confirmed F2P? If it was, I'd still play. Though, the EN communities would probably be overrun with exploiters even moreso if that's the case. But hey, having PSO and PSU P2P certainly didn't seem to stop them anyways.:P

I think I could definitely support PSO2 being F2P considering that, since microtransactions seem to be the way to go anymore anyways. Also gives more of a chance that more people will play and casually spend cash. It'd be a smart move at least in the US market since there's a lot of competition for monthly subscriptions even beyond games(Netflix, Hulu, etc as well).

[kornkid212]

I actually would've prefered it to be Buy to Play, like the original PSO, but this is also fine with me

[Mracless]

I don't really trust SEGA to do a Cash shop right.

I would totally love it if they consistently created new outfits and hairstyles to purchase for a fair price. But that would involve actually having to make content that's worth buying.

They'll want to make money with the least amount of effort and making people pay for higher numbers on their weapons through weapon grinding is just such an easy way to make money. There are plenty of people who feel the need to have perfect weapons and will happily/unhappily pay money to do so.

Cash shops thrive off the things that aren't actual content. The stuff that doesn't even have a form except for maybe a little picture in your inventory. The EXP scrolls, extra inventory space, extra storage space, etc... Then the stuff that is actual content like costumes and hairstyles is sold at extortionate prices completely disproportional to the value of a game, and quite often lasting only for a certain length of time.

I just can't see SEGA being a pioneer to a decent and fair cash shop system. Especially not with what they with guardians cash.

[SubstanceD]

Wow. Not only is PSO2 coming to the Vita but it is also going to be free to play as well. Sega has just made me a very happy man. I can now forgive them for not releasing PSP2 Infinity in the West.

[rezakon]

I don't really trust SEGA to do a Cash shop right.


No one trusts any company to do a cash shop right, we gamers seem to think we know best in the instances of cash shops but most of us rarely put forth ideas to these companies with "proven" facts that our ideas will turn them a profit so they are left quite literally "pissing in the dark" and most times that's on a power cable that shocks and kills them.

[SolRiver]

Inb4gambling element

Lots of asian games got that garapon, gotchapon thing... I won't be too surprise if PSO2 going to use those too. (big spend spend... BIG)

I am happy to know that PSO2 population won't be dying any time soon.

I wonder how I would feel about PSU's gambling (that roulette thing) combined with real cash...

[Neith]

Ugh, did not want F2P. F2P with cash shop usually entails having to buy your way into good gear. I didn't play JP PSU so I don't know how that one worked, but I would've preferred P2P with no cash shops.

If a cash shop is just for things that won't impact the balance of the game, fine. Certainly don't want to see awesome weapons/armour or access to areas as part of it though.

[Spellbinder]

Ugh, did not want F2P. F2P with cash shop usually entails having to buy your way into good gear. I didn't play JP PSU so I don't know how that one worked, but I would've preferred P2P with no cash shops.

If a cash shop is just for things that won't impact the balance of the game, fine. Certainly don't want to see awesome weapons/armour or access to areas as part of it though.

I'd have to watch it again, but I'm fairly confident Sakai mentioned he wants to make sure players are not hindered in their ability to level up, explore, and strengthen their characters, etc. I didn't play PSU long enough to see the cash shop, but I don't think they plan to make this a game where you need cash shop to not get whipped by enemies.

[Vashyron]

Hmm, was thinking how smart would it be if they allowed trading of Arks Cash.

This way if someone desired they could still obtain ALL the content and not spend a dime. (Someone will still be buying the Arks Cash and someone will still be working for the Items/Meseta.)

Personally I would not care if this would allow some rich kid to essentially buy his way to the "top." Probable someone like this will find an "unofficial method" of doing it anyway.

[Spellbinder]

Was there ever really a "top" in the PSO series? I thought it was just about having fun beating monsters to a bloody pulp.

[lostinseganet]

No one trusts any company to do a cash shop right, we gamers seem to think we know best in the instances of cash shops but most of us rarely put forth ideas to these companies with "proven" facts that our ideas will turn them a profit so they are left quite literally "pissing in the dark" and most times that's on a power cable that shocks and kills them.you have been watching too much 1000 ways to die.

[DoubleCannon]

YESSSS F2P!! BEST NEWS EVER!! Why if anyone asks? because I hurts like hell when you played PSU or PSO BB paid monthly and then they end the game making the 300 bucks worth if not more i spent to play the game completely worthless! I can no longer play PSU-Aoi on my computer and i got a new computer with GTX 550 graphics from a old comp with the crappiest year 2002 graphics card. But no I can not play online where all my hard earned stuff is :'(

Thank you sega <3

[Vashyron]

Was there ever really a "top" in the PSO series? I thought it was just about having fun beating monsters to a bloody pulp.

This is why I put it in quotation marks, but those people with the "unhealthy obsession" of spending a ton of money just so they can get the "best" weapons with the "best" upgrades even if it makes the already easy game, even easier, may disagree.

Or just think about how many people will cry fowl if you could directly buy some 15* Weapon for a huge sum of cash. This would not bother me personally because I don't care what others are doing with their money as long as I can obtain it normally.
Plus this is a PVE game. I am not in a competition with anyone, but other people love to insert competition into anything so they would hate it if someone could just buy the best equips. (Also Hello to people with Huge Egos.)

[Razelis]

Oh I would love it if cash items could be put in player shop for meseta.

Will make the whole cash shop deal nicer.

I been in a guild in an F2P game where a member used to make in game money by spending real money on cash shop and gifting it to guild members, and then get in-game money for it. But that was illegal and had to stay inside the guild. He could not shout in town for trades like this or be banned for it.

I bet SEGA will allow cash item gifting but I wonder if it will be legal to pay someone meseta for cash item.

[Macman]

Plus this is a PVE game. I am not in a competition with anyone, but other people love to insert competition into anything so they would hate it if someone could just buy the best equips. (Also Hello to people with Huge Egos.)You mean the TA freaks?

[velocity7]

Hmm, was thinking how smart would it be if they allowed trading of Arks Cash.

This way if someone desired they could still obtain ALL the content and not spend a dime. (Someone will still be buying the Arks Cash and someone will still be working for the Items/Meseta.)

Personally I would not care if this would allow some rich kid to essentially buy his way to the "top." Probable someone like this will find an "unofficial method" of doing it anyway.

Would be an interesting way of handling it. I tried advocating for something similar in another MMO, but the idea didn't quite take off due to misconceptions/bad assumptions from the community.

[Kazzi]

Many of the other MMO's I've played have always become cash shop dependant :/ that's the only thing that worries me. I'm interested in seeing what sort of stuff will be in the shop before I judge the decision.

[Mag-X]

I'm glad it's free to play. If it had a monthly fee, my friends won't play it. As for me, I have a job, so I will buy all the things.

[moorebounce]

Phantasy Star Online could have been bigger in the U.S. if it weren't for the fact that Sega came straight out the box with a subscription fee on the Dreamcast to play online. Offline was boring until you played enough online and got hooked. They did make it free for a few weeks but by then it was too late.

Any drug dealer or salesman worth his weight in gold knows you have to put out free samples to get new customers hooked on your product.

[Remius]

If they implement it right they could make FAR more money than they would have made with a subscription based model. Most likely a good move on Sega's part.

this is almost guaranteed. It's probably why they made the switch.

[Akaimizu]

Makes sense. Even in the US, the PC community has long been indoctrinated by the F2P model. This should go rather smoothly for them, given so many successful examples of F2P gaming.

[Worship]

At this point I don't care either way, I'd like to play it and they're going to get some of my money one way or another.

[landman]

When a p2p game goes f2p it always seems as if it didn't do it good enough and is in need of more players, so a symbol of weakness. With PSO2, most western players would be surprised if it was going to be p2p, and think from the beginning that the game is not worth to pay.

Now it's in Sega's hands, make a good first impression and this may be successful, make the opposite and this will be doomed (in the west at least)

[Setsuna00G]

Phantasy Star Online could have been bigger in the U.S. if it weren't for the fact that Sega came straight out the box with a subscription fee on the Dreamcast to play online. Offline was boring until you played enough online and got hooked. They did make it free for a few weeks but by then it was too late.

Any drug dealer or salesman worth his weight in gold knows you have to put out free samples to get new customers hooked on your product.

exactly and that is why it kind of sucks. It is no secret that SEGA or any other company that has a f2p MMO have to make their money one way or another. Can SEGA make their money by selling items that do not affect game play? if not then their going to have to sell items that affect game play, which sucks. So yes more players is always good, but less revenue is not. with f2p you just never know and have to wait and see how it turns out, but all successful f2p MMOs have cash items that affect game play.

[SELENNA]

Phantasy Star Online could have been bigger in the U.S. if it weren't for the fact that Sega came straight out the box with a subscription fee on the Dreamcast to play online. Offline was boring until you played enough online and got hooked. They did make it free for a few weeks but by then it was too late.

Any drug dealer or salesman worth his weight in gold knows you have to put out free samples to get new customers hooked on your product.

I assume you are a dealer or salesman

[soulpimpwizzurd]

I assume you are a dealer or salesman

lol this guy

[Griffin]

It's a business model that works for Sega. All that needs to be said.

[EtherForce]

o.o This news blows my mind. I may actually be able to get some friends to play.

[Dragwind]

My own personal preference on this matter isn't that serious, it doesn't bother me much either way. I just hope the cash shop stuff is reasonably priced.

PSO2 going back to it's F2P roots is definitely going to skyrocket the popularity of this game. I'm sort of excited to see how popular it actually becomes here in the states, especially with now with the news of extending onto the iOS/Android platforms (which can in turn introduce and re-direct those players to the other versions)

I'm most excited to see if people become more aware and interested in the game from my area, as it's a hard sell to most here.

[Neo Flint]

Personally, I'm quite glad PSO2 went F2P. I'm really not that rich like you guys...

It seems more and more developers are taking the F2P route. Including the ones that are originally P2P. I think Aion online is going F2P in April as well.

Just wait 'til that lolicon, Remotay makes a First Look video in MMOhut on Youtube. -_-;

[Griffin]

I'm really not that rich like you guys...

Hah! Having the necessary funds doesn't always mean we are willing to spend high on digital goods. C;

[EtherForce]

Are they trying to make me beg them to bring this game to the PS3? With the f2p and if it were for PS3, I know at least one or two people who would be much more willing to play with me. Please Sega, please...

[Dre_o]

It was the only reasonable route they could go. P2P games just can't survive in a world with tons of games that don't require a monthly fee to play. Not only that but they'll make fist fulls of cash more with a Freemium model than they would P2P.

My only reservations are that the game MUST NOT take the Spiral Knights route OR let you buy power.

In essence, I approve this move (within the above stated limits).

[Demon-]

Kinda saw it coming and I am actually glad they did go F2P. As long as they don't go overboard with the Cash Shop. Stuff like more storage space is fine just don't make it so I have to buy and unlock everything.

[Flame]

I would have much rather preferred a p2p format with no subscription fees. This could be totally off but the game going F2P doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the quality of the product. Im more worried about the general quality of the game at this point. I could totally see there being only 4 unique areas and with the game being free, it's almost justified.

[Primobol]

I'm really concerned about this to the point I'm not sure if I will buy the game if it goes to the wrong direction. All my F2P experiences so far were really bad.

It usually means ridiculously colorful and ridiculously OP items being thrown to anyone for real money. Weekly promos to give you extra cash if you spend cash and that kind of stuff.
I don't believe SEGA will screw the game to this point, but I'm still concerned.

A nice F2P model is the one used in League of Legends where ALL the items are cosmetic (just skins for the characters) or a way to buy Heroes without the need to grind for the money (points). I would accept this on PSO2.
They could sell random stuff to customize your character VISUALLY ONLY and maybe sell meseta (not 100% sure about this).

Anyway, there are plenty of models around there that are better than the "colorful cash fiesta". Even the new Diablo 3 model, where it seems they will make money around the Real Money Auction House (and the BlizzStore of course).

The P2P model would be nice for me if they could stay within a US$ 5/month price range. Much more than that would make it more expensive than WoW, what would be hilarious comparing the servers needed to run each one.


P.S. Oh and I expect they don't go "lazy" just because they are going to the F2P way and forget to give us patches/updates to keep the game interesting.

[Orange_Coconut]

I'm not sure how to feel about this; it depends on how they go about doing the cash shop. My biggest concern is making outfits and items that last a certain number of days -- that shit needs to end. If there are Mag Cells that allow you to turn your MAG into a hamburger, it won't really matter if it's Cash Shop only and lasts for a month. Though, right now these are all wild speculations -- as the cash shop could be just about anything. I think I agree with Flame -- I am not entirely sure what the quality of the game will be like after hearing about this announcement.

[ashley50]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/ashley_riot/1327369803527.gif

[Rei-San]

If we've been noticing. Sega HAS been listining to us lately. If this is a problem or if we see ways to fix it, then Sega might correct.

I honestly don't care. I'm just worry if the game will get same problem that PSU had. Overtime it got boring cause we spammed the same missions, the economy was ruined, rare items flooding the market, the weapons lack variety, leveling characters and PAs were a chore, Forces were boring/infuriating compared to PSO, we barly got any updates and when we did the missions weren't fun.

PSO2 seems to have fix all of these problem, and with the cash shop it seems to be forcing them into giving us something new.


I'm really sick of the gloom and doomers. I was in a really good mood for the game untill they had to say something. I'm proud for the game, now I need to go get my hype back.


P.S.: Even if the good stuff had to be bought, we all expecting a monthly fee anyway. Why is paying them now such a big issue? This F2P thing made it more fortunate on the wallets on fans who don't have jobs. I was afraid I was going to miss out.

[jayster]

At least if it comes to the US, f2p will keep an active population.

Only thing that scares me is when I think of 360 PSU demo..... oh god no.

[Primobol]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/ashley_riot/1327369803527.gif

Perfect explanation of how I (and maybe more ppl here) feel!

[LoveRappy]

am totally glad they made the game F2P with a cash-shop. much rather it be like this. its my preferred method for online games.

this will keep the game way more active in the long run. since people can log-on for free, there will always be an active community.

people who are against F2P dont understand that PSO2 would not have survived very long being subscription based. the game would have dwindled down a few months to a year after it launched and then SEGA would have shut the servers down within 4-5 years. being F2P will make sure the game survives a lot longer and always has content.

F2P + cash shop is way more profitable than a standard monthly fee.

[Merumeru]

XD as soon as I found this out, I was immediately ecstactic, as this meant that the days of having a small/elitist community in-game would be at an end XP I think this'll make the population what it should be; people interested in this kind of game, regardless of whether or not they have access to money for a subscription fee

XP of course, the lingering worry in my mind is that the cash shop items are going to be more than cosmetic, being something like expensive 2xEXP items and whatnot that tend to ruin F2P games, or weapons/items that'll make all in-game stuff worthless XP

Guess we'll just have to see X3

[Rei-San]

At least if it comes to the US, f2p will keep an active population.

Only thing that scares me is when I think of 360 PSU demo..... oh god no.


Oh, god... Cybering. I completely forgot about that. :disapprove:

Hopefully we can just report them.

[Yuicihi]

I'm cautiously optimistic.

I'll wait and see exactly how they'll implement it.

[JC10001]

They made the right move by going F2P. Pay-to-play simply isn't viable for any game that isn't WOW these days (and WOW's days are numbered).

[Randomness]

I don't mind. If they do it right. If they limit themselves to time savers for $$$, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Zyrusticae]

As long as the prices are reasonable and clothing/weapon skins aren't limited-life (no, I don't care how cheap it is, I am not *renting* that thing for 30 days, gorramit!), I have no issue with this.

I get enough planned obsolescence in life as it is, I don't need it in my video games, too.

[Inazuma]

Well, fuck this game. It went from being my most anticipated game to being a game I completely flat out refuse to play in any way. On the bright side, I am glad that Sega announced this before the game came out instead of switching business models mid-game like with PSU.

Unlike some of you, I don't happily bend over whenever anyone asks me to. I won't tolerate this bullshit for one second. Now that the game will be pay to win, we can safely assume two things.

First, it will be much more expensive. Yes, really. Don't be fooled by the word "free". It's not actually free at all. "Free to play" games are the most expensive games out there. They are not designed around being fun games, but rather designed around getting the player to spend as much real money as possible. Not only does the quality of the game take a massive hit, but so does your bank account.

Now, being very expensive is one thing, the other problem has to do with being "good" or "skilled" at the game. Players such as myself, play these types of games with the main goal of raising a strong character and being very skilled at playing the game. That's pretty much impossible in pay to win type games, unless you spend an obscene amount of real money every month. Sega knows this, and they plan on taking full advantage of these people.

The pay content will start off very small, and gradually increase every month, until it reaches the point of insanity. If you don't spend any real money, you will not only be weak and shitty at the game, but you will be very limited in what content is available to you. If you want to be a great player and keep up with everything and other players, you can expect to drop hundreds of dollars on a regular basic. You are fucked either way.

I know it's against the rules to talk badly about PSO on this forum, but I don't care. You can censor this post or ban me over it, but what I'm saying is the truth. All MMOs are like this now, and PSO 2 will be no different.

PSO is my favorite game of all time, but I will not be playing PSO 2 at all. Fuck you Sega, and also fuck you to all of the people who support pay to win games. Goodbye.

[Anon_Fire]

Well, fuck this game. It went from being my most anticipated game to being a game I completely flat out refuse to play in any way. On the bright side, I am glad that Sega announced this before the game came out instead of switching business models mid-game like with PSU.

Unlike some of you, I don't happily bend over whenever anyone asks me to. I won't tolerate this bullshit for one second. Now that the game will be pay to win, we can safely assume two things.

First, it will be much more expensive. Yes, really. Don't be fooled by the word "free". It's not actually free at all. "Free to play" games are the most expensive games out there. They are not designed around being fun games, but rather designed around getting the player to spend as much real money as possible. Not only does the quality of the game take a massive hit, but so does your bank account.

Now, being very expensive is one thing, the other problem has to do with being "good" or "skilled" at the game. Players such as myself, play these types of games with the main goal of raising a strong character and being very skilled at playing the game. That's pretty much impossible in pay to win type games, unless you spend an obscene amount of real money every month. Sega knows this, and they plan on taking full advantage of these people.

The pay content will start off very small, and gradually increase every month, until it reaches the point of insanity. If you don't spend any real money, you will not only be weak and shitty at the game, but you will be very limited in what content is available to you. If you want to be a great player and keep up with everything and other players, you can expect to drop hundreds of dollars on a regular basic. You are fucked either way.

I know it's against the rules to talk badly about PSO on this forum, but I don't care. You can censor this post or ban me over it, but what I'm saying is the truth. All MMOs are like this now, and PSO 2 will be no different.

PSO is my favorite game of all time, but I will not be playing PSO 2 at all. Fuck you Sega, and also fuck you to all of the people who support pay to win games. Goodbye.

You have gotta be kidding me, Sakai never said it would be pay-to-win. He even said there will be no high-level items/weapons for purchase.

[Kazzi]

Well, fuck this game. It went from being my most anticipated game to being a game I completely flat out refuse to play in any way. On the bright side, I am glad that Sega announced this before the game came out instead of switching business models mid-game like with PSU.

Unlike some of you, I don't happily bend over whenever anyone asks me to. I won't tolerate this bullshit for one second. Now that the game will be pay to win, we can safely assume two things.

First, it will be much more expensive. Yes, really. Don't be fooled by the word "free". It's not actually free at all. "Free to play" games are the most expensive games out there. They are not designed around being fun games, but rather designed around getting the player to spend as much real money as possible. Not only does the quality of the game take a massive hit, but so does your bank account.

Now, being very expensive is one thing, the other problem has to do with being "good" or "skilled" at the game. Players such as myself, play these types of games with the main goal of raising a strong character and being very skilled at playing the game. That's pretty much impossible in pay to win type games, unless you spend an obscene amount of real money every month. Sega knows this, and they plan on taking full advantage of these people.

The pay content will start off very small, and gradually increase every month, until it reaches the point of insanity. If you don't spend any real money, you will not only be weak and shitty at the game, but you will be very limited in what content is available to you. If you want to be a great player and keep up with everything and other players, you can expect to drop hundreds of dollars on a regular basic. You are fucked either way.

I know it's against the rules to talk badly about PSO on this forum, but I don't care. You can censor this post or ban me over it, but what I'm saying is the truth. All MMOs are like this now, and PSO 2 will be no different.

PSO is my favorite game of all time, but I will not be playing PSO 2 at all. Fuck you Sega, and also fuck you to all of the people who support pay to win games. Goodbye.

Whilst I don't particularly like Cash Shop games myself for the reasons you've mentioned, and I'm skeptical about it myself (but I guess this is why they're adding in the closed beta and taking the feedback from the test to see if they'll go with this form of 'payment'), this is so overdramatic I couldn't help but laugh.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

wasn' final fantasy 11 online really interesting because both english and japanese players played on the same server? they had some kind of real time translating thing that went on.

Yes the servers on FFXI aren't separated by region for I had some friends who lived in japan who played....any region that can play ffxi can be on any server....it's just the matter of finding people in your time zone.....the irony is although there are JP players on the servers.....alot of times...they keep to themselves... where if a JP is shouting for something and an english person responded via auto-translate....sometimes either get ignored or they'll say English {No Thanks}


Not all of them are like that but it happens.......



As for the f2p
I'm all for it if doesn't make it so that:
1. Can't accomplish things w/o doing it.
2. Making it so that only the "best" gear comes from it (few not all the best gear)
3. Limits my gameplay in some way....

[Vashyron]

Dat Post.

Haha. Please compare what the free users have access to in PSU JP to Cash Shop and the Sub even.

They have the majority of the game's content for free and they can still obtain the best weapons. You don't even need them, the game is easy enough.
If anything I like that it shows how easy it is to pull out so much money out of people's obsession with having 50% 10/10 weapons when in reality that is over kill for the current high end weapons in PSU. I can expect the same stuff to happen in PSO2.

By all means let these people pay the game and beyond for me.


Players such as myself, play these types of games with the main goal of raising a strong character and being very skilled at playing the game.So are you trying to imply that they will cripple your character if you don't pay? Or are you confusing boasting about your luck with the RNG as skill? Because in no way do I see how they could impede you being "skilled" at the actual game.

[BIG OLAF]

I didn't know F2P automatically meant P2W. Huh.

[kyuuketsuki]

Well, fuck this game.
Can tell this is going to be a reasonable, well thought-out post from the get-go. :rolleyes:

Let me state from start that I prefer the monthly subscription model.
Unlike some of you, I don't happily bend over whenever anyone asks me to. I won't tolerate this bullshit for one second.
Yeah... everyone loves getting shafted. Except, they don't. You might want to consider that people who like f2p feel they're getting more value that way.
First, it will be much more expensive. Yes, really. Don't be fooled by the word "free". It's not actually free at all. "Free to play" games are the most expensive games out there. They are not designed around being fun games, but rather designed around getting the player to spend as much real money as possible.
No one is holding a gun to your head, forcing you to pay for anything. The game will cost you as much or as little as you are willing to put into it. What generally happens, actually, is that a few people spend a lot of money and sort of subsidize the population that pays little or nothing. The majority will sit in the middle and buy a few things here and there.
Now, being very expensive is one thing, the other problem has to do with being "good" or "skilled" at the game. Players such as myself, play these types of games with the main goal of raising a strong character and being very skilled at playing the game. That's pretty much impossible in pay to win type games, unless you spend an obscene amount of real money every month. Sega knows this, and they plan on taking full advantage of these people.
That's certainly a possibility, but we have zero evidence of this being the case. It's quite possible SEGA feels that they can entice enough buyers of primarily cosmetic items and a few other things that don't affect game balance to any large degree. Of course, if they're wrong, then they either have to start making the premium content more meaningful to get more buyers or switch to subscription model partway through (which of course would have a huge backlash). But, this is all conjecture and it's absurd to claim prescience that it will go a certain way. I know it's hard to comprehend, but you could be wrong.
The pay content will start off very small, and gradually increase every month, until it reaches the point of insanity. If you don't spend any real money, you will not only be weak and shitty at the game, but you will be very limited in what content is available to you. If you want to be a great player and keep up with everything and other players, you can expect to drop hundreds of dollars on a regular basic. You are fucked either way.
Maybe, maybe not. No reasonable person is "fucked either way", though. You start out paying nothing. If there's some premium content that interests you, you drop a few dollars here and there; if I end up dropping $10 to $15 a month, that's about even with a subscription anyway so I call it even. If it ends up being $30, $40, $50+ to keep up with content that I feel like is necessary to enjoy the game, then I sigh heavily and, with great regret, stop playing. SEGA doesn't get my money, I don't lose my money. No one is "fucked" - except SEGA, if I'm part of a trend.
I know it's against the rules to talk badly about PSO on this forum, but I don't care. You can censor this post or ban me over it, but what I'm saying is the truth.
WTF are you talking about. No one that I'm aware of has ever been censored or banned for talking trash about PSO, PSO2, or whatever else. Maybe if you're a douchebag about it and/or attack other forum members, but that's obviously your own damn fault if you act that way.
[...]and also fuck you to all of the people who support pay to win games.
Now see, that's where the douchebag part comes in...

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I didn't know F2P automatically meant P2W. Huh.
Seeing that I've never played an online F2P game similiar to this (or really any F2P RPG for that matter) I never quite knew how that worked but I do figure to some extent it's not "Fully" free....just hope it doesn't limit you is all

[Griffin]

I didn't know F2P automatically meant P2W. Huh.

I would have posted the same thing if you hadn't already.

[Rei-San]

I think my credibility to humans just lower in the coarse of less that 24 hours... :disapprove:


Let me put it like this:

Team frotress 2 is F2P.

Bought it, had fun.

Liked it so much, I went premium.

I bought ONE THING of the mann co. store. The futuristic rifle for the sniper. Cost me less that 5$

Got my premium, and that's all I bought. ALL THAT I FUCKING BOUGHT! There's that and the rest are novelty items that I can buy IF I CHOSE SO. The game is still skill based and I'm running around killing people with the shit that I unlock through achievements and hard work.

And I'm also glad that i'm not paying a subscription, cause I haven't touched the game in about a month or 2. I wouldn't have stopped my subscription for 2 reasons:


In the back of my head, there is this thought of me wanting to go back a play the game. So it's there whenever I do.
I have a ton of other subs that I pay for, and completely forget about the money coming out of a game that I haven't played in a while.

This has happened to me while I was playing PSU. I think that THIS is wasting more money than shopping in cash shops.

[Jinto117]

FTP! My mind is blown! Hoping to Odin that a North American release happens at leat by the 4th quarter of this year.

[FOkyasuta]

Think of this,

If ya can get through the entire game with out really needing the cash shop to aid you in your adventures, then ya know its a good Cash Shop System.

So its said.

[Griffin]

I know that things such as Stat Boosts are generally despised, but what say you all about items such as EXP Rate boosters? Personally, I never purchase anything besides outside of vanity.

[Jinto117]

I know that things such as Stat Boosts are generally despised, but what say you all about items such as EXP Rate boosters? Personally, I never purchase anything besides outside of vanity.

I have always personally despised "EXP Boost Rate Modifiers" in FTP MMO's. When they exist you always get those rich or otherwise no-life try hards who think they are cool kids. I prefer things like clothing items, decals, weapon skins, etc.

[Merumeru]

I know that things such as Stat Boosts are generally despised, but what say you all about items such as EXP Rate boosters? Personally, I never purchase anything besides outside of vanity.
XP I've never been a fan of stat-boosting items or experience-boosting items, but I'm also in the mindset that cash shop items should be purely aesthetic; of course SEGA ain't going to make any money running things like that XD

[Vashyron]

Personally don't have any issues with something like a EXP Booster, I don't care if that rich kid over there just basically paid his way to the Level cap, I'm not in any competition with them.

[Griffin]

Wait, has any PvP information been given about the game? It may determine a few things about a Cash Shop.

[Mike]

Wait, has any PvP information been given about the game? It may determine a few things about a Cash Shop.
None really. We know there won't be any PVP at launch though.

[Griffin]

None really. We know there won't be any PVP at launch though.

Thanks. I didn't think so. So any "pay-to-win" aspect wouldn't involve competition, unless you count getting a rare item first to be so. ^^

[Vashyron]

Nothing besides this (http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Improvements.png) which was a questionnaire asking what people would like to see, competitive aspects got a 2.1% Vote, so I doubt they would be prioritizing that.

Regardless, if PVP was in I can only see it being a broken mess. (This is even disregarding the probable high ping issues people playing or facing others outside JP will have.)

[Rei-San]

Wait, has any PvP information been given about the game? It may determine a few things about a Cash Shop.

They say they won't do it initially, but if it's heavily requested then they may add it on later.

[Griffin]

You guys are good help.

[str898mustang]

keep the monthly fee...keeps 85% of the trolls out of the game.

[Angelo]

Wait, has any PvP information been given about the game? It may determine a few things about a Cash Shop.

None at launch, however it was very requested at Gstar, since that's a Korean trade show.

The game will tank very hard in Korea if there is no form of PvP.

There is already a Korean language version of the game that was played at Gstar 2011, which is more localization than we've been seeing in the west.

So take that as you will.

[g3kko]

f2p .... worst news this year.

I love the PSO community, now with f2p....to many a**holes

[Golto]

Since pso2 will be f2p will the client be free too?

[Mike]

Since pso2 will be f2p will the client be free too?
All three versions of the client will be free. I wouldn't be surprised if a boxed version with a few bonus items showed up though.

[Dinosaur]

F2P is good. It means players. And players are good for an online game.

[Griffin]

f2p .... worst news this year.

I love the PSO community, now with f2p....to many a**holes

I share your concern, however; frugality or the willingness to pay a subscription fee does not determine one's online personality. lol

[BIG OLAF]

f2p .... worst news this year.

I love the PSO community, now with f2p....to many a**holes

Then just play with people from PSOW and/or other communities that you know? Oh, and ignore the assholes. That's a good way to fix the issue.

[r00tabaga]

I remember how many douchebags littered the PSPo2 demo.....looking 4 girlfriend....yuck
Hoping the douchebag count is low.

[•Col•]

I remember how many douchebags littered the PSPo2 demo.....looking 4 girlfriend....yuck

Yeah, that's pretty bad... It was a HUGE problem in the Xbox 360 PSU demo as well.... It's like these PSO games just attract those type of people for whatever reason.

I really hope the admins really crack down on it, because as dumb as it sounds, it can become a pretty big problem...

[soulpimpwizzurd]

i'd assume a simple block would solve the problem, did it ever get worse? all you really have to do is mute them so you can't see what they type and you're good right?

[Mag-X]

Almost everyone who I've played with on PSOBB has been pretty cool, and that game is free. Some people are total n00b-cakes, but very few ass holes.

I can see anything that's free on the Xbox 360 being overrun with ass hats. Xbox Live is one of the many reasons I don't own an Xbox 360. Annoying 12 year olds can't usually afford a decent PC, so it's generally less of a problem. For those that do get through, there are mute buttons and block lists.

[Merumeru]

XD hey, if we're going to generalize, let's not forget that PC F2P newbs > Console F2P newbs

Most multiplayer demos of games on X360/PS3 are always littered with the most annoying people ever XP makes you ashamed to know you're enjoying the same thing as they are

[soulpimpwizzurd]

i don't see how the p2w argument holds water when this game isn't pvp focused atm. however it could hold water in the future.

p2w is mostly influenced by how significant a part pvp is of a game. pso2 doesn't seem like it'll have pvp at all, chances are it'll just keep the mega low drop rate for rares so people just keep going out hunting.

however, with the new combat system, pvp could be an interesting possibility, and it could be a quick solution for lack of content for players at the level cap, to keep players interested in the game.

-then- p2w will become a possible problem. idgaf if someone next to me 1hits everything in a pve, in fact i support it because that means i just have an easier ride. who doesn't want a strong ally?

but i'll be pissed off if my opponent in a pvp match has a sword that drains 30% of my health in one blow, while i do maybe 5% damage to him, simply because cash shop is broken.

if ANY pvp is implemented, i really, really, reeeeeeeeeeeeally hope they will implement it like this:

have a "basic" mode of PVP, where the physical aesthetics of characters and their weapons are kept, however everybody has the same stats, and skills/skill points are restricted to the lowest level player in the pvp match.

and have a normal mode, where stats matter so if you want to compete gear wise it'd matter here.

however normal mode would not and should not be taken seriously as it does not fall to actual skill level, it just falls to who grinded/paid more for better weapons.

the only mode that should be taken seriously is the basic mode i have stated.

if pvp was going to only be basic mode, i'd actually really like to see pvp come to pso2. only if it was basic mode. i would not support it in the slightest if stats from gears/level would be a part of it.

[Randomness]

Seeing that I've never played an online F2P game similiar to this (or really any F2P RPG for that matter) I never quite knew how that worked but I do figure to some extent it's not "Fully" free....just hope it doesn't limit you is all

League of Legends is a perfect example of f2p not offering any advantage at all to people who pay (Besides convenience). In fact, the most important unlockable can't even be directly bought.

[Remius]

i don't see how the p2w argument holds water when this game isn't pvp focused atm.

.....?

It does not need to have Player vs. Player to stratify the players based on cash shop usage.




And yes, League is Legends is the perfect example of how every F2P game should be. Nothing gameplay wise is sacrificed or misplaced.

[Jinto117]

Well in the event that there was PvP, I'm sure they would prohibit paid booster items in a competitive situation. I wouldn't care much for team deathmatch style competition but something like time attack modes in a competitive situation would be cool.

[Arika]

Simply reason, they got main money from PSU gacha, that is why they decide to be gacha main stream now.

[lugnut360]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/lugnut360/0703-New20Xfire20Infographic--article_image.jpg

'Nuff Said

[FOkyasuta]

Funny.

The second some one pulls up gatcha, they bring up that photo.

Gatchas.

If you dont what they are lets hope you find out what they REALLY are soon.

[Poubelle]

can anyone tell me what the cash shop was/is like in PSU? I played PSU on pc/ps2 NA servers when the game came out and it didn't have that.

i hope it's cosmetic. im happy for this change because I know PSO isn't as huge as it could be in NA and people will definitely be more willing to buy it without a subscription fee ---

but if they ruin my long awaited PSO2 experience with pay to win cash shop items.. like anything related to item upgrades or stats in general, ill probably be upset

[Anon_Fire]

can anyone tell me what the cash shop was/is like in PSU? I played PSU on pc/ps2 NA servers when the game came out and it didn't have that.

i hope it's cosmetic. im happy for this change because I know PSO isn't as huge as it could be in NA and people will definitely be more willing to buy it without a subscription fee ---

but if they ruin my long awaited PSO2 experience with pay to win cash shop items.. like anything related to item upgrades or stats in general, ill probably be upset

http://www.psupedia.info/GUARDIANS_Cash_shops
http://www.psupedia.info/GUARDIANS_Cash_missions

[Poubelle]

http://www.psupedia.info/GUARDIANS_Cash_shops
http://www.psupedia.info/GUARDIANS_Cash_missions

thanks

not really happy to see cash shop +exp and drop rate though , kinda hate that actually :dead:

[Merumeru]

Funny.

The second some one pulls up gatcha, they bring up that photo.

Gatchas.

If you dont what they are lets hope you find out what they REALLY are soon.
XD ugh, thanks for reminding me of the dreaded "WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEND MONEY TO HAVE A .001% CHANCE TO GET THIS ITEM YOU REALLY WANT BUT YOU'LL PROBABLY END UP WITH JUNK" that I despise so much in F2P games

[Razelis]

I'd like to add that we shouldn't be concerned only by WHAT the cash shop will sell.

The game being in this model also affect its DESIGN.

For example:

I played an F2P game where during lvl up you gained stats RANDOMLY. Why did they make it? After a while a cash shop item been released where it redistribute your stats randomly again.

So while the cash shop item didn't really affect or let anyone think it breaks the game. The game design where the stats distributed randomly did break the game yet no one realized it was because of the cash shop.

Same applies to EXP and Drop rates.

If SEGA planned to have X/Y rates, they are going to have to decrease that upon going F2P if they want their boosters to sell.

If SEGA planned to have a way to reset skills through a quest reward, they are going to drop that and make it a cash shop item.

It's true that no one knows what will be in the cash sop, but it should be clear that it's going to affect game aspects for sure, if not directly from the cash shop then indirectly from the game design.

[ShadowDragon28]

According to the official website, the items in the cash shop will be stuff like exclusive costumes, hairstlyes, and room decorations. There's NO evidence of there being any "Xp boost" items etc etc....

[Razelis]

According to the official website, the items in the cash shop will be stuff like exclusive costumes, hairstlyes, and room decorations. There's NO evidence of there being any "Xp boost" items etc etc....

It was just an example to bring the point across that we should also be concerned about the game design being different than it'd be if it didn't have cash shop.

I'll take PSUJP GC missions as example. In a GC mission 15star sabre drops for X drop rate. If GC mission didn't exsist SEGA would make it drop by X rate from normal mission. But since GC mission exsist they are going to change it to less than X rate on the normal mission.

To make it look good, they'd just say normal mission = 100% drop rate, GC mission = 1000% drop rate. (while actually it could be GC mission = 100% drop rate and normal mission = 20% drop rate)

No one would doubt why the drop is so low, everyone would think that's just how the game is and the GC mission just have a bonus. Wrong - that's how it is because Cash shop exsists.

[Scyris]

I don't like the fact its gonna have a cash shop, it means they gonna balance the game so you need cash shop items to get by. Dungeon Fighter Online is a prime example you can get to lv 35 maybe 40 ok, but after that you pretty much need Remy's Touch items (heals 50% hp/mp) to survive as most classes. Kinda worried pso2 will be like this, if they offer gear and such too.. well ugh. It might not be so bad they need to announce exactly what will be in the cash shop. I am just worried that the game will end up being pay2win with people who use CS having a huge advantage over people who don't, its usually like this in f2p games.

[Spellbinder]

Do we really need another thread making baseless assumptions on a non-competitive online RPG that hasn't been released yet?

Edit:


It might not be so bad they need to announce exactly what will be in the cash shop.

If you'd read the forum they've already mentioned the types of items that will be in the cash shop.

[Angelo]

Yep.

Insert 4,000,000 Arkz Cash

Credits Roll.

[Scyris]

Do we really need another thread making baseless assumptions on a non-competitive online RPG that hasn't been released yet?

Edit:



If you'd read the forum they've already mentioned the types of items that will be in the cash shop.

I must be blind I can't find the thread with info on what items is in it.. gonna try playing around with the search, in the big info thread it just mentions there will be a cash shop, but not what types of items are in it.

[BIG OLAF]

What is wrong with people?

FREE TO PLAY does NOT automatically mean PAY TO WIN. Please get it through your skulls.

Based on what's been seen, the shop will mostly be comprised of novelty items and/or items that do not affect gameplay more than a little bit. The general guess is that it will be mostly clothes, hairstyles, room decorations, and probably promotional/collaboration items.

Sakai already stated that "high-level" gear won't be available in the cash shop, so there goes the "PSO2 = P2W" argument.

[Spellbinder]

Sakai also mentioned the fact that it's free to play with a cash shop will not hinder a character's ability to level up, obtain gear, etc.　(If I could find a video of the briefing I'd go translate a direct quote).

[GCoffee]

Sakai promising P2W won't be part of PSO2, the limitations still can vary from really bad to not bothering, at all. Many people here seem to forget that PSO2 is a game with a focus on social gameplay, as well.

How would you guys, for example, like it if we were in need for a cash shop item in order to expand the size of our room? Could not be called P2W, but would still be quite tempting not to buy. The possibilities SEGA has to shove down cash shop items down our throats that we hardly can resist are endless, really. And said items would not even have to affect the core gameplay itself.

[DayDreamer]

What is wrong with people?

FREE TO PLAY does NOT automatically mean PAY TO WIN. Please get it through your skulls.

Based on what's been seen, the shop will mostly be comprised of novelty items and/or items that do not affect gameplay more than a little bit. The general guess is that it will be mostly clothes, hairstyles, room decorations, and probably promotional/collaboration items.

Sakai already stated that "high-level" gear won't be available in the cash shop, so there goes the "PSO2 = P2W" argument.

^Enough Said and well put at that.

[Scyris]

What is wrong with people?

FREE TO PLAY does NOT automatically mean PAY TO WIN. Please get it through your skulls.

Based on what's been seen, the shop will mostly be comprised of novelty items and/or items that do not affect gameplay more than a little bit. The general guess is that it will be mostly clothes, hairstyles, room decorations, and probably promotional/collaboration items.

Sakai already stated that "high-level" gear won't be available in the cash shop, so there goes the "PSO2 = P2W" argument.

True it doesn't but most of the time it does with most titles, its why f2p games are frowned upon often, but glad to hear its mostly clothes and such, I'll buy nice clothes for my female chars if the prices are right, but if they think imma pay 15-20 US for 1 top/pants and shoes set, they got another thing coming XD

[Kent]

What is wrong with people?

FREE TO PLAY does NOT automatically mean PAY TO WIN. Please get it through your skulls.
To be completely fair about this, it's an assumption based on a recurring trend with free-to-play games - where you can directly buy power over other players.

Though he may not have read the details for this specific game yet, it's entirely fair to think that free-to-play will lead to play-to-win, because it does happen very, very often.

[Spellbinder]

To be completely fair about this, it's an assumption based on a recurring trend with free-to-play games - where you can directly buy power over other players.

Though he may not have read the details for this specific game yet, it's entirely fair to think that free-to-play will lead to play-to-win, because it does happen very, very often.

But you don't win in PSO.

[Mike]

How would you guys, for example, like it if we were in need for a cash shop item in order to expand the size of our room? Could not be called P2W, but would still be quite tempting not to buy. The possibilities SEGA has to shove down cash shop items down our throats that we hardly can resist are endless, really. And said items would not even have to affect the core gameplay itself.
It's 100% likely that you'll be able to get room decorations from the cash shop. Just check out the middle picture on this thing.

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1789&pictureid=25745

[r00tabaga]

Bald heads! Finally.

[Anon_Fire]

What is wrong with people?

FREE TO PLAY does NOT automatically mean PAY TO WIN. Please get it through your skulls.

Based on what's been seen, the shop will mostly be comprised of novelty items and/or items that do not affect gameplay more than a little bit. The general guess is that it will be mostly clothes, hairstyles, room decorations, and probably promotional/collaboration items.

Sakai already stated that "high-level" gear won't be available in the cash shop, so there goes the "PSO2 = P2W" argument.

Here's your answer Inazuma, it won't be like PSU JP. Now will you be playing PSO2 or are you still against it?

[Enforcer MKV]

I see so many alarmist reactions.....I'm not sure if this is staggering or not.

Guys, guys. It's not the end of the world here. F2P =/= P2W. That's just an unfortunate mutation.

As people have stated previously, League of Legends is a good example of how F2P should be done.

For those worried about PSO2 becoming like the Xbox 360 demo (Cringe), please keep in mind, that was the demo, not the full game. I doubt Sega would allow that to pass in their full version, free or not. Behavior like that would scare off customers, and therefore, lose them money. Sega seems to be taking thinks pretty seriously so far, so I gonna go with them continuing that trend.

Yes, a trend of F2P games is to turn into P2W. Usually, though, those are games that have already floundered with a sub model, and are trying to gain money through nickel and dime tactics.

Some games popping up (the big one that comes to mind is Firefall) are saying that they're going to follow the LoL model of not screwing over their customers. I think the industry is starting to learn that gamers aren't going to put up with the nickel and diming crap, and are actually going a much more reasonable route.

Yes, part of my argument is putting faith in Sega. Yes, some of you probably think me a fool for doing so. But if Sega does pull through for us, this model is going to be so much more lucrative, both for gamers and Sega.

[MelancholyWitch]

it's really difficult to say that a cash shop will be effective no one really knows at this point if the items will be appealing or not...just gotta see at the beta I guess. Though I don't know I've had so many bad experiences with F2P games but those were American ones so I guess time will tell...They are taking a huge gamble on this one.

[Xaton]

well sense no true PVP like in say conqueronline which has the cash shop wher eone can buy to perfection and pk people. in this it seems more on on same side with say pvp arenas and any that bought their way would fail due to skill of players as i see they have jumping and dodgeing. only othe rproblem with free to play is riffraff and spammers LOL. but still sense no true pking it wont be as bad maybe in arena mode if there is one.

[Griffin]

Yep.

Insert 4,000,000 Arkz Cash

Credits Roll.

I'm amused.


If Sakai is making a promise, then the proof is in the pudding. As it was said before, we'll have to see!

[Akaimizu]

I personally think the F2P model will be something people will be more agreeable with. Given SEGA's non-Japanese track-record, people wont feel like they're being forced to constantly pay for premium content for another country because that content doesn't make its way over here. This way, they simply pay for something and get an immediate return of something added for their money. Of course, some will pay for stuff just to support them knowing it's still a lot less than the money spent on monthly subscriptions. (Funny enough, this issue applied more to PSO than to PSU. PSO was the one where (for quite some time) everybody was paying, Japanese got lots of new content, US got Letters from Lionel and then pretty much no content updates whatsoever. And the US dollar was strong against the Yen then).

Given the track record of the previous Phantasy Star games, I have absolutely no worry that the F2P model will bring more hackers and others....not when we get enough of that on a P2P model. So I see no evidence that it'll be any worse. I still remember PSO, and I don't think any game I've played got it worse with the exception of those who got their accounts phished. But that's more of an account attack than ruining someone's character without the need to get any information off them (via an out-of-game method) whatsoever.

So I see this as a model which will attrack folks who have been wary of SEGA's commitment to their online service. Because they wont have invested so much in it, in the first place.

Still, I probably would've thought it would be better if they completely copied the ArenaNet model used in Guild Wars. I've never seen a more (seemingly fair to the consumer) model than that. Though I guess, to a degree, they are doing just that with the *later* release where you pay for it but get a shopping bag full of content with your payment.

[Griffin]

The thing about hackers and spammers in F2P games is that the developers and/or publishers are usually low budget and cannot (or refuse not) to invest in robust security. *shrugs*

[Akaimizu]

The thing about hackers and spammers in F2P games is that the developers and/or publishers are usually low budget and cannot (or refuse not) to invest in robust security. *shrugs*

Which is exactly what SEGA constantly did to us with the Pay to Play version, thus it was Sega's history that broke the model of what to expect from a Pay to Play version.

The key to profitability, across the world, is consumer trust. They lost it, along the way. This is a key way to win it back. Get them into it, trying it, without initially being worried that they're making an investment that they may likely not see satisfactory return on. And at the same time, offer content for a fee for which they already know what is up and what they're getting for their money. A little bit here, a little bit there. It adds up and then they have a lot more money than they would by the other model in order to pay people to update and even work on security.

The idea is, the moment you start slipping badly during a Pay to Play model, people start to leave your game in droves, which is the fastest way (by far) to see profits plummet. If more people stick around paying a couple dollars there instead of zero, then you make more money.

Even Nexom (who does plenty of F2P games) has often at least beat Sonic Team when it comes to post-release support on their games. The amount and quality of timely updates for something like Dungeon Fighter Online trumps anything Sega ever did. So something seems to be working with that model. Issues they've had with a bit of downtime, also repeated by the ST pay to play servers. But you don't mind with the F2P model, because your money didn't go to the time you couldn't play.

Still, I wrote a nice long letter about Sega tackling the PC format with PSO2 and my warning about what they need to do to make it float. So perhaps this decision is something that they did understanding that. (Though it was probably identical concerns from other folks that probably shifted this)

[moorebounce]

The thing about hackers and spammers in F2P games is that the developers and/or publishers are usually low budget and cannot (or refuse not) to invest in robust security. *shrugs*Which is exactly what SEGA constantly did to us with the Pay to Play version, thus it was Sega's history that broke the model of what to expect from a Pay to Play version.

Like Akaimizu said Sega didn't do a great job w/ security when it was P2P. That was the main reason I stop playing PSO online on the Dreamcast. Why P2P when I didn't feel I was getting my moneys worth security wise.

As far as the cash shop goes IMO if we can still get all the items playing the game I would be okay with it. Then it's just a matter of who wants to put in the work to find their items (in game) and who wants to take the easy way out (cash shop).

[Ceresa]

What is wrong with people?

FREE TO PLAY does NOT automatically mean PAY TO WIN. Please get it through your skulls.

Based on what's been seen, the shop will mostly be comprised of novelty items and/or items that do not affect gameplay more than a little bit. The general guess is that it will be mostly clothes, hairstyles, room decorations, and probably promotional/collaboration items.

Sakai already stated that "high-level" gear won't be available in the cash shop, so there goes the "PSO2 = P2W" argument.

Just because "high-level" gear won't be available in the cash shop doesn't mean "high-level" gear won't be available in the cash shop. It's just honeyed words from a professional weasel out to get your money.

You may not be able to add a Lavis to cart and checkout, but they can still sell temporary access to missions that just happen to have good gear with an increased drop rate, making the people who farm rares normally get fucked on the trade value of their items (and their time...)

They can still sell exclusive grinding materials that just happen to give you more than a .001% chance to get to +10, while throwing in a skill that gives a massive boost exclusively to +10 equipment. Not like that happened in PSU or anything, oh right that did happen.

They can sell exclusive grinding materials that give you a bigger boost per level than the ones you find in game. Mag cells with better attack patterns. And on and on.

Sakai even said the sales of PSP2 cosmetic crap were disappointing, why would he make the same mistake, especially when he's not getting guaranteed income from people buying the game? You really think the average person is going to think "well, I didn't spend 50$ to buy this game, I'll spend 50$ on cash shop ponytails, that's fair" fuck no. You really think the flood of Chinese peons spamming general chat will use the cash shop? Fuck no.

[Poubelle]

What is wrong with people?

FREE TO PLAY does NOT automatically mean PAY TO WIN. Please get it through your skulls.

Based on what's been seen, the shop will mostly be comprised of novelty items and/or items that do not affect gameplay more than a little bit. The general guess is that it will be mostly clothes, hairstyles, room decorations, and probably promotional/collaboration items.

Sakai already stated that "high-level" gear won't be available in the cash shop, so there goes the "PSO2 = P2W" argument.

in more cases than not, F2P does equal pay to win, sadly...

peole who are fans of the game probably consider any non cosmetic cash shop option as being slightly P2W

of course they won't add high level gear directly into the shop as buyable (that would be too obvious)

but the fact they might add bonus EXP and drops to highest cash shop spenders is worrisome

[Anon_Fire]

Just because "high-level" gear won't be available in the cash shop doesn't mean "high-level" gear won't be available in the cash shop. It's just honeyed words from a professional weasel out to get your money.

You may not be able to add a Lavis to cart and checkout, but they can still sell temporary access to missions that just happen to have good gear with an increased drop rate, making the people who farm rares normally get fucked on the trade value of their items (and their time...)

They can still sell exclusive grinding materials that just happen to give you more than a .001% chance to get to +10, while throwing in a skill that gives a massive boost exclusively to +10 equipment. Not like that happened in PSU or anything, oh right that did happen.

They can sell exclusive grinding materials that give you a bigger boost per level than the ones you find in game. Mag cells with better attack patterns. And on and on.

Sakai even said the sales of PSP2 cosmetic crap were disappointing, why would he make the same mistake, especially when he's not getting guaranteed income from people buying the game? You really think the average person is going to think "well, I didn't spend 50$ to buy this game, I'll spend 50$ on cash shop ponytails, that's fair" fuck no. You really think the flood of Chinese peons spamming general chat will use the cash shop? Fuck no.

You sound like you don't trust Satoshi Sakai with the Arkz Cash Shop.

@Poubelle: They might NOT add EXP boosters because we have PSE bursts instead.

[Krank32oz]

My guess is that the cash shop will only have cosmetic advantages or slight increases in exp maybe by say 10%. If you look at the business model for guild wars 2 its doing the same thing and looks to be very promising. I wouldn't be too worried about this. I trust them!

[GCoffee]

The main difference is that GW2 will cost you money when buying it, PSO2, however, won't. They want to make money out of this? Then the chash shop is the only way to do so. That is in my opinion the most valid reason we have for concern about how they will handle things.

Oh, and taing PSU's cash shop as proof how PSO2's one will look is totally not valid. PSU had a sub fee to begin with and the cash system was only implemented a long time AFTER the game's release. The latter alone meant they were severly limited on what items they could still release via the cash shop.

[Akaimizu]

Agreed to a point. At least that it leaves open some concern. Thus my comment is that I would rather they use an ArenaNet-style payment method. They do seem to be doing that with the (paid) version they are releasing later. It's kind of like a *buy the game, get this amount of content* option. Not quite the same, but close. I'd be happy to deal with that.

I always thought that was great about Guild Wars, they put a load of content on an expansion, and if you want it, you buy it. GW2 will probably outpace the rest, in terms of profits, when it releases. I'm practically betting on it. And when that happens, just about everybody save for the successful F2P companies would jump on that model. But I can't blame ST for being flexible on their F2P model. It leaves them open to adopt a GW2 style model quickly, if they see need to copy that model later.

[Scyris]

The thing about hackers and spammers in F2P games is that the developers and/or publishers are usually low budget and cannot (or refuse not) to invest in robust security. *shrugs*

Sega is not exactly a low budget devoloper but.. *Points at PSU on the pc* That game got hacked so bad so many times that it ended up being closed. With PSO2 being f2p i am especallt worried about how robust their security will be after how badly psu failed in that respect.

[Akaimizu]

And PSO DC was a lot worse. So bad that I didn't even pay for online service for any PSO after that until PSU came out. Heck, if I was to get the same gameplay and content on the Xbox/GC games, using split screen play with my friends, then I might as well do that. And I did. Got to play just as well (for a time) and no monthly fee. Seems my lack of jumping into the official online service paid off since I didn't feel those who did got anything better than what I was getting.

[Griffin]

I believe Guild Wars 2 will continue setting that example. Many MMOs such as Aion and DC Universe have somewhat recently scrapped the P2P model, but still granted premium services for those who do not mind continuing their monthly payments.

Which brings forth another thought. What if PSO2 did just that? Premium Accounts.

For example, City of Heroes (quite an old MMO, but is still going strong) has recently gone free to play, however; players who continued paying for the game were given more benefits and a monthly stipend of gold. I don't believe this would hurt too many people considering that most of us paid a sub fee for the past online PS games. Many of us were under the impression that PSO2 would be P2P, correct?

[Poubelle]

And PSO DC was a lot worse. So bad that I didn't even pay for online service for any PSO after that until PSU came out. Heck, if I was to get the same gameplay and content on the Xbox/GC games, using split screen play with my friends, then I might as well do that. And I did. Got to play just as well (for a time) and no monthly fee.

lol, i think this is my biggest worry too

even if pso2 became totally p2w.. eh,ive played garbage korean mmos that were pretty bad , could probably deal with it because pso2 is fun

but if meseta gets duped in the first few weeks of pso2 like in psu ill probably bail

[Primobol]

I just need to add my opinion about who is saying P2P and F2P with cash shop is the same thing, since, in the end, you will be using in the cash shop the money that was going to be spent in the subscription.

These are completely different. With subscriptions you pay to have a CHANCE to achieve certain goals by playing the game your own way. It will depend on your skill (or if you have ppl to "carry" you).
With the cash shop you pay and you get it INSTANTLY. There is no gameplay or skill involved. And having that kind of "power" in your hands takes all the fun and immersion of the game IMHO.


The main difference is that GW2 will cost you money when buying it, PSO2, however, won't.

Are you sure the game itself can be downloaded for free too???
Dayum if that's the truth I can see the kind of F2P they are implementing...


I'm soooo so sad if that's the truth (because I really liked the alpha)... -_-

[Remius]

Just because "high-level" gear won't be available in the cash shop doesn't mean "high-level" gear won't be available in the cash shop. It's just honeyed words from a professional weasel out to get your money.

You may not be able to add a Lavis to cart and checkout, but they can still sell temporary access to missions that just happen to have good gear with an increased drop rate, making the people who farm rares normally get fucked on the trade value of their items (and their time...)

They can still sell exclusive grinding materials that just happen to give you more than a .001% chance to get to +10, while throwing in a skill that gives a massive boost exclusively to +10 equipment. Not like that happened in PSU or anything, oh right that did happen.

They can sell exclusive grinding materials that give you a bigger boost per level than the ones you find in game. Mag cells with better attack patterns. And on and on.

Sakai even said the sales of PSP2 cosmetic crap were disappointing, why would he make the same mistake, especially when he's not getting guaranteed income from people buying the game?


This.



Anyway to be fair, Phantasy Star was never a game where you really paid for anything but the ability to play the game. PSU's servers rarely got updates and about 80% of the content released during its entire lifetime was either a) already on the disc or b) actually created for another game and ported.





Sega has full reign to destroy this game with cash shop advancement mechanics like all the Korean MMOs use to make a ridiculous profit off their games.





The question is simply whether or not Sega will have the integrity to not sell themselves out or not (and if they do, to what extent). It does not take much for a cash shop to drastically change everything about a game's economy and endgame advancement. It doesn't take much at all.

[Griffin]

Are you sure the game itself can be downloaded for free too???


That's what was said. I would rather it be B2P like Guild Wars, though I was prepared for P2P. So this doesn't hurt me at all.

Let's keep in mind that most F2P games have PvP, and PSO2 doesn't seem to have anything. Yes, a pay-to-win aspect can still be present, but by how much exactly? Why else would anyone play the game if they can buy everything? Phantasy Star Online has always been about raiding maps for rares. But if you're already buffed up from Cash Shop items, then why would you care? Unless it's a bragging rights thing. ^^;

[soulpimpwizzurd]

guys guys

listen

guys

so apparently the only thing we can do now is

believe in sega that believes in you, that believes in sega, dont believe in sega that believes in you that believes in sega that you believe

just believe in sega that believes in you that believes in sega

[SuperChoco]

I personally feel that expansions that will come a couple months after release that will cost money and that is how they'll make their income.

[Inazuma]

Here's your answer Inazuma, it won't be like PSU JP. Now will you be playing PSO2 or are you still against it?

At first, it won't be pay to win. That way, they will get many more players to start playing the game. Then over time, they will add things that give you very small advantages over players who don't spend money. After that, it will be a moderate advantage. Finally, it will reach the point where you pretty much have to spend a ton of money or you will be severely gimped.

And even though the game won't have a monthly fee, it still will end up having one. They will have cash shop items that give you various bonuses and advantages, but only for limited times, like a day, week or month, so you will have to buy a new one when it expires.

Despite being extremely against the pay to win business model, I played Dungeon Fighter Online for 2 years. It was really fun, but being pay to win really destroyed the game, because it just kept getting worse over time. I was extremely skilled at playing the game, but there were always players better than me simply because they spent more than me. Also, there were some players in PvP I just couldn't defeat consistently because I wasn't as rich as them.

I averaged $40 a month on Dungeon Fighter Online, which is really too much money to spend on a game. But even still, it wasn't enough at all. I really could have spent a ton more on it and it was very difficult for me not to give in. I eventually realized I was wasting my time and money and vowed to never play another pay to win game again.

I'm sure that PSO 2 will start off looking like a great game that isn't ruined by the cash shop, but it will gradually degrade over time. It will be slow enough to keep most players hooked, but also fast enough to get as much money out of them as possible.

For all of you insisting that PSO 2 will be different than every other "free to play" game out there, tell me that again one year from now.

[Primobol]

That's what was said. I would rather it be B2P like Guild Wars, though I was prepared for P2P. So this doesn't hurt me at all.

Let's keep in mind that most F2P games have PvP, and PSO2 doesn't seem to have anything. Yes, a pay-to-win aspect can still be present, but by how much exactly? Why else would anyone play the game if they can buy everything? Phantasy Star Online has always been about raiding maps for rares. But if you're already buffed up from Cash Shop items, then why would you care? Unless it's a bragging rights thing. ^^;

Jesus... then I may install it just because I'm a fan of the original one. I'll probably be spending most of my gaming time on GW2, WoW and D3. And SEGA will not have a single penny from my pocket. Ruining (following the "cash shop fiesta" model) the sequel of an epic experience like PSO was, is pure disrespect.

[NoiseHERO]

Yeeaaahh...

The Vita idea I could comprehend and I saw how it could work out without much problems...

But I have no clue what they have in mind making this game free to play... That would be "good" for us at least...

Other than more players. and being wallet friendly (depending on the player.)

[Griffin]

Jesus... then I may install it just because I'm a fan of the original one. I'll probably be spending most of my gaming time on GW2, WoW and D3. And SEGA will not have a single penny from my pocket. Ruining (following the "cash shop fiesta" model) the sequel of an epic experience like PSO was, is pure disrespect.

We don't know how it's going to be. Personally, I cannot see it as disrespect, but as a different method of operating a game. Being F2P doesn't mean a game can't be epic. League of Legends is often a grand example here.

[Primobol]

We don't know how it's going to be. Personally, I cannot see it as disrespect, but as a different method of operating a game. Being F2P doesn't mean a game can't be epic. League of Legends is often a grand example here.

But you can't compare LoL with PSO2. LoL is a relatively small game, with few "stages" and lower quality models. I hope they can sustain the game selling only "skins" like LoL, but I can't think of any other game FULLY F2P (even the client is free) that is not ruined by the cash shops.

And yes, if they "ruin" PSO2 it is a disrespect. They could do it with any other title, but after talking about 10 years anniversary, PSO sequel and NAMING it PSO2... sorry but it MUST be epic and not a "shopping centre".

The way it was, it was going to be epic IMO. But if they lock anything that's not aesthetic ONLY, it's not for my taste.

[RSmiroldo]

I have read around on miscellaneous threads since the announcement that this game will be F2P model. I have only played two subscription based game (phantasy star online, phantasy star universe), and was very comfortable with the pay for game + monthly subscription based concept. Can you guys tells me based on your experiences with other f2p games what we should expect. I'm just a little nervous that we are going to be nickel and dimed for every feature that should be standard. Thanks in advance for calming my nerves.

[Spellbinder]

If you go over to the topic titled "pso2 is free to play with cash shop" (still at the top of this page), you can find everyone posting about the oncoming apocalypse.

[SilverFoxR]

The F2P with Cash Shop model was first done with the games such as "Maple Story" and, for what it's worth, it's a very financially successful model. Essentially, the items sold in these types of shops aren't essential to gameplay and are often limited to things like special costume covers or temporary add-on buffs.

The F2P model allows more players to get into the game and the ones who feel like spending real money on the virtual items can do so. Some people go a bit overboard with it, but hey... it keeps the game going for those people who don't want to or are unable to spend money on it.

The only real disadvantage to this model is that less desirable people in the game's community may begin to appear more often than a paid subscription version. However, seeing how this game runs a lot differently than other MMOs in the sense of co-operative gameplay (you and only your teams appear in an area other than the main lobby) and the experience and item system gives you full reward for participating in the combat, this is really not going to be a major issue.

To be frank, this is probably the best model Sega could go with overall... especially since they have to consider the cross-game compatibility with the Vita. After all, if I own both a PC and Vita, should I have to buy two retail game discs and possibly two subscription fees? Even if I have to buy 1 subscription for both, how will they be able to track it easily? The F2P model eliminates these issues.

[Zyrusticae]

Vindictus, APB Reloaded, World of Tanks also come to mind here.

(Before someone says "convenience is P2W!"... No, no it is not.)

[Griffin]

The F2P with Cash Shop model was first done with the games such as "Maple Story" and, for what it's worth, it's a very financially successful model. Essentially, the items sold in these types of shops aren't essential to gameplay and are often limited to things like special costume covers or temporary add-on buffs.

The F2P model allows more players to get into the game and the ones who feel like spending real money on the virtual items can do so. Some people go a bit overboard with it, but hey... it keeps the game going for those people who don't want to or are unable to spend money on it.

The only real disadvantage to this model is that less desirable people in the game's community may begin to appear more often than a paid subscription version. However, seeing how this game runs a lot differently than other MMOs in the sense of co-operative gameplay (you and only your teams appear in an area other than the main lobby) and the experience and item system gives you full reward for participating in the combat, this is really not going to be a major issue.

To be frank, this is probably the best model Sega could go with overall... especially since they have to consider the cross-game compatibility with the Vita. After all, if I own both a PC and Vita, should I have to buy two retail game discs and possibly two subscription fees? Even if I have to buy 1 subscription for both, how will they be able to track it easily? The F2P model eliminates these issues.

This post holds too much merit to be posted in this thread. :-P

[Spellbinder]

This post holds too much merit to be posted in this thread. :-P

Ya, get out of here you.... gosh darn logic in my forums... I swear. :P

[LK1721]

Not going to lie here, I am a bit skeptical about how this is going to work...

I suppose they could try making money off of aesthetic items but in the end I feel like they'll either end up ludicrous in price or they'll have to add items that slightly differentiate from what "should" be in the shop. I.E. Small boosters for grinding, exp, ect. Which, in theory, should only provide a fraction of an advantage, but could progress into a more P2W strategy.

On the other hand, if it works out well, then I can definitely see things like MAG Cells (Especially of "classic" MAGs like Sato or Rati), Room-Related Items (Actual room space expansion, skins, relocation, jukebox tunes, extending the common box), Clothing (maybe even Visual Units), Seasonal-Novelty Items (goofy clothing, weapons, and decorations), ect. None of these would LEGITIMATELY affect the core gameplay but could still be very lucrative. This is, ideally, what I'm hoping will happen.

I would probably feel a bit better about the game if you had to first purchase a copy, THEN have the cash shop with the items. That way, SEGA would make money and wouldn't make it necessary for the players to shell out cash at the shop to make up for it. I'm not saying that PSO2 will turn into a P2W game, simply because SEGA has been on quite the roll lately with the games it has been producing and I'm hoping they've got the integrity to back their decisions on the cash shop.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

At first, it won't be pay to win. That way, they will get many more players to start playing the game. Then over time, they will add things that give you very small advantages over players who don't spend money. After that, it will be a moderate advantage. Finally, it will reach the point where you pretty much have to spend a ton of money or you will be severely gimped.

And even though the game won't have a monthly fee, it still will end up having one. They will have cash shop items that give you various bonuses and advantages, but only for limited times, like a day, week or month, so you will have to buy a new one when it expires.

Despite being extremely against the pay to win business model, I played Dungeon Fighter Online for 2 years. It was really fun, but being pay to win really destroyed the game, because it just kept getting worse over time. I was extremely skilled at playing the game, but there were always players better than me simply because they spent more than me. Also, there were some players in PvP I just couldn't defeat consistently because I wasn't as rich as them.

I averaged $40 a month on Dungeon Fighter Online, which is really too much money to spend on a game. But even still, it wasn't enough at all. I really could have spent a ton more on it and it was very difficult for me not to give in. I eventually realized I was wasting my time and money and vowed to never play another pay to win game again.

I'm sure that PSO 2 will start off looking like a great game that isn't ruined by the cash shop, but it will gradually degrade over time. It will be slow enough to keep most players hooked, but also fast enough to get as much money out of them as possible.

For all of you insisting that PSO 2 will be different than every other "free to play" game out there, tell me that again one year from now.

probably the most realistic and likely course pso2 will take, even though it's sad. this guy reads games like a tv tropes writer, lol.

BUT EVEN STILL, I WILL BELIEVE IN THE

HOPE

OF

TOMORROW

[Mike]

For all of you insisting that PSO 2 will be different than every other "free to play" game out there, tell me that again one year from now.
Provided you're here in a year, I'm sure there will.

[BIG OLAF]

You sound like you don't trust Satoshi Sakai with the Arkz Cash Shop.

Ceresa doesn't trust anyone with anything, what with always having this crude, curmudgeonly attitude towards everything.

Anyway, obviously they'll probably have EXP boosts and 'rare mission' acces (like Legacy of the Light in JP PSU). It worked there, so of course they'll re-implement it in some form. But, it hardly makes that much of a difference. I've never heard of people freaking out and raging on the JP servers due to the "unfairness" of having a grind boost, EXP boost, or what have you.

You people act like PSO2 is going to be a full-on dystopian society, with people who "abuse" the cash shop being completely uber or something, and those who don't being gimpy scum. Chill the fuck down; no one even knows 100% how it's going to work yet. Christ.

[ShadowDragon28]

You people act like PSO2 is going to be a full-on dystopian society, with people who "abuse" the cash shop being completely uber or something, and those who don't being gimpy scum. Chill the fuck down; no one even knows 100% how ti's going to work yet. Christ.

Best, smartest comment in this thread, ever.

[rezakon]

I think we all know that mentality is based on peoples previous experiences with games in the f2p segment of the market but...

I don't see a problem with it because if you look at a lot of the f2p now they are making very good games that have started to understand that pay-2-win diminishes the player base instead of improving it so they instead base the majority of the content in cash shops around account improvement (bank slots, character slots, etc), minor timed boosts (exp, gold, drop rates, etc) and heavily loaded cosmetic items.

The ideal way to achieve it would be like how riot does it with being able to earn points in the game to buy some of those cash shop items so that those players that long term players can also gain those perks if they desire to spend points on them.

I agree that some people need to bring this back to constructive debate though, no point running to the knothole screaming robotnik.

[SilverFoxR]

This post holds too much merit to be posted in this thread. :-P

Oops... sorry... forgot... we're in an online forum. Lemme make it more appropriate:

"ZOMG NUBZ! P2P FTW n all elze iz sux0roz!"

[Rizen]

*passes out flame shields and fire extinguishers to all*

Chill out people! Let the game come out! We can play Theorycraft all day and there will be only two results...you will end up chasing your own tail or beating a dead horse... neither sounds fun to me.

F2P or not, you should enjoy the game for what it is. Even if there is exclusive content for pay users, I can almost guarantee they people will still be able to enjoy the game and not miss a wink of sleep.

[NoiseHERO]

@ rezakon Even if I wanna see cyborg bunny cleavage-What?

I would at least be more comfortable BUYING this game... Just a pure-as-day F2P game... Something that doesn't feel special when a game hasn't stolen 20-60 of your dollars. But that's just nitpicking.

I'm usually able to stomach the way any kind of F2P game goes, as long as it get's updates... But I'm a casual player so what do I care? But that's the thing to be prepared for, MORE than just the Buy to win losers...

> You have 12 year olds that type like me, but not on purpose.

> SEGA goin' all "You guys play this for free >D what you need updates more than once a month for, ja? >D"

> Script kiddies not having to spend money.

> BOTS...

> This game taking it's sweetass time coming out in english(I dunno one friend I had brought this one up, but I do usualyl find that F2P games take forever to get over here.)


Well I'm sure there's a line between a F2P game and a PVP based, mass produced korean F2P game with a bitter community, play to win or not. I'm just hoping I could put this game in a group with a game like DC universe, guildwars or Borderlands? (B2P I know) instead of a group like... *Insert any previously mentioned mass produced korean game with a shitty host that's just waiting for the game to die*

Or.. even though I'm playing a PC game it'd be nice if it still felt like a Console game. D:

Though it irks me a little bit I'm sure SEGA won't COMPLETELY fuck this up. And our community... I'll probably just ignore or troll 95% of it like I usually do anyway. So even if they do screw up, I'll still be here, ignoring all of the politics, leetism/competitive drama and nitpicking. Enjoying the core game with my friends like I do with every other videogame that I understand is just a video game.

[Griffin]

If anyone is truly a fan of PSO, they wouldn't knock the game because of a business model. We all know PSU wasn't perfectly managed, but people stayed behind because they loved the game if not the entire series.

Don't be quick to give up on the game. I believe this is Sega's greatest project right now.

[rezakon]

@ rezakon Even if I wanna see cyborg bunny cleavage-What?

Though it irks me a little bit I'm sure SEGA won't COMPLETELY fuck this up. And our community... I'll probably just ignore or troll 95% of it like I usually do anyway. So even if they do screw up, I'll still be here, ignoring all of the politics, leetism/competitive drama and nitpicking. Enjoying the core game with my friends like I do with every other videogame that I understand is just a video game.

Yeah I moved away from EN to JPN because of the community with PSU but when you can make a group of friends within a community like in PS with the co-op nature of gameplay you usually stick with them and their friends so that you can avoid most of the 95%.

Plus bunny cosmetics, yes please ^^ that would be awesome!

We'll just have to see how it plays out, we have to put up with that sytle of player in P2P and B2Ps and my experience with DCU & GW was just a co-existence with them as I'm not a power player either.

I still don't like the idea of cash benefits even after playing many F2Ps over the years but as I've gotten older my time to play has diminished so things like exp boosts do appeal to people in my circumstances for catching up to my friends in these games.

I like personally how GW2 has approached it with level syncing groups of friends into the same level range, it would have been nice to have that here as well instead of a probable exp booster.

[Rizen]

Well I'm sure there's a line between a F2P game and a PVP based, mass produced korean F2P game with a bitter community, play to win or not.
This line should be brought to everyone's attention... very true statement that I could go on and on about....

Another reason why F2P have bad rep that is not mention as much in this thread is that when these F2P come to the US, they are used as pure cash cows with little to no support. Once they can not milk that cow anymore, they shut them down without a second thought. This leaves a bad taste in the players mouths, and they don't want to come back for seconds when presented with another promising piece to play with.

There are F2P games out there that has effective cash shop model. Guild Wars is actually a good example to consider. Whether you like Guild Wars or not, the game has a good F2P model with cash shop. You buy the standalone games once, input your product key, and play for free. If you want more stuff such as characters slots, personalized heroes, costumes, or skill unlocks then you can pay for those at your own will. All mentioned are cosmetic or convenience purchases.

So long games do not cross the boundary of selling power or stopping free updates, then all should go well. But really...let the game come out!

[Griffin]

I like personally how GW2 has approached it with level syncing groups of friends into the same level range, it would have been nice to have that here as well instead of a probable exp booster.

Ah. The good ol' sidekick system introduced in City of Heroes, another amazing game that eventually went F2P and is stronger than ever.

[pso2love]

You were going to pay an upwards of $60 for the game anyways, RIGHT? I doubt on the first day, they were going to have $60 worth of PAID content in the store. So just use the money you were going to use to buy this game, and pay for the cash shop items. If you don't like the items, then just don't buy them... and play the game for free. Problem solved.

I still want SEGA to make money. Though I'm interested in the kind of items they will have to offer... we will wait and see.

[Griffin]

You were going to pay an upwards of $60 for the game anyways, RIGHT? I doubt on the first day, they were going to have $60 worth of PAID content in the store. So just use the money you were going to use to buy this game, and pay for the cash shop items. If you don't like the items, then just don't buy them... and play the game for free. Problem solved.

I still want SEGA to make money. Though I'm interested in the kind of items they will have to offer... we will wait and see.

Love the optimism, and I share it with you.

I was completely prepared to purchase the game, even pre-order, as well as pay a subscription fee. Now that money is going to support Sega a different way.

[pso2love]

Love the optimism, and I share it with you.

I was completely prepared to purchase the game, even pre-order, as well as pay a subscription fee. Now that money is going to support Sega a different way.
I too, was completely prepared... I even updated my graphics card so I could get it on my HD TV. XD

[Finalzone]

F2P is a good approach. The only issue is SEGA management on oversea. It seems the servers will be shared worldwide this time unlike previous releases excluding the Xbox 360 version.

[Primobol]

You were going to pay an upwards of $60 for the game anyways, RIGHT? I doubt on the first day, they were going to have $60 worth of PAID content in the store. So just use the money you were going to use to buy this game, and pay for the cash shop items. If you don't like the items, then just don't buy them... and play the game for free. Problem solved.

As I said before, I like to get stuff by playing the game. I don't want to buy a boost in any mechanic of the game. I want to play it with it's regular balanced ratings.

I don't want to buy a weapon. I want to get it by regular drops.

And 3rd, I don't spend real money on cosmetics.
From people like me, PSO2 will take no money following this model (thanks god most ppl seem to be different).

For the people saying the B2P or P2P model is a HUGE barrier, they could just release a limited free edition to introduce people to the game, just like the WoW Starter Edition. Once the "starters" realize the game has quality and are "addicted" to it, they will gladly pay to play it.


Anyway, all this is just my opinion. -_-

[Griffin]

A Premium/VIP subscription will likely be possible. One particular game gave VIPers their own shard and only those with said status can enter it.

[Reia]

Actually F2P model games are not a good idea if the game is centered on PvP or PvPvE since by "balance" you mean someone that ganks you with cash powered stats and probably you find it like some sort of cheating since the player didnt became strong with effort and skill but by putting up an amount of money. While in a PvE centered game, all that centers mostly is fashionable and some other services for more confortable gameplay. But considering I have played games since the NES era, my tendece to complain that "X game have this while the Y game Im playing dont" is basically almost zero. Im totally okay if people want to progress faster by putting cash rather than effort and time, I consider it same as a player decides to cheat in PSO, it's fine as long as you don't disturb the players who want to play with effort and see personal achievement. And what happens if the other player that probably buys all kind of stuff spending huge amount of money to be a "peacock beacon of inspiring jealousy"? Just use a "kick" function for being an idiot, blacklists are there too. No PvP core means no real need on getting +10s. So most PvE centered games I played with cash shop it was PERFECTLY FINE by my experience of clearing from beggining to every content without complaining that cash shop is unfair. Maybe SEGA will also make Events giving stuff that cant be either gained for free or by cash shop, so that also can make some people happy.

Vote:

Agree of F2P - Stated that I have NO PROBLEMS with the Cash shop format and even benefits me to drag friends into playing and not finding myself into the hassle of importing this title (paying 3 or more times the value of the game and wait around 2-3 months) and fear if I will spend my money wisely or not in it considering all possible obstacles that may occur.

[condiments]

For the people saying the B2P or P2P model is a HUGE barrier, they could just release a limited free edition to introduce people to the game, just like the WoW Starter Edition. Once the "starters" realize the game has quality and are "addicted" to it, they will gladly pay to play it.


This may have worked in the past, but expectations have shifted dramatically over the years. Though in reality I believe B2P, moreso P2P, have always presented a significant barrier to entry. Things like WoW are anomalies that are near impossible to replicate. Even WoW after all these years is beginning its slow inevitable decline, which might signify more than anything, that the subscription based model is dead.

There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with a F2P system, because everything relies on its implementation. We've seen this model strain and grow to fruition over the years, attempting to balance gameplay, player, and business needs. A proper incentive/reward payment system will allow a company to make a significant amount of money off a small portion of its player base that is willing to make the investment(trust me there are people out here who do) without hampering the general populace. Its also the easiest model for exploitative business practices. However, it can make it much harder to sustain a game over long term if you actively repel your playerbase and create ANOTHER barrier to entry.

I don't really view this change as a good thing or a bad thing at this point. It all depends on Sega whether or not they're willing to not want to screw their playerbase and themselves over by taking the easy way out. At least I'll be able to try the game, and stop at no cost if it ends up sucking.:-D

[Reia]

Also I think that probably The way we will get up with the content will be very different than the first PSO. I mean instead of us getting a fixed amount of stages (eight, Ten for PSOBB) and no new content but custom quests and events and new items to something that may start tiny, like a small amount of content at start that will gradually grow with new content update, in order to constantly be getting new content every 2-3 months at probable chances that we will get way more content than the first PSO release. And I don't want to talk much about PSU since Im also aware of their history since release but that's a VERY LONG STORY.

[Primobol]

This may have worked in the past, but expectations have shifted dramatically over the years. Though in reality I believe B2P, moreso P2P, have always presented a significant barrier to entry. Things like WoW are anomalies that are near impossible to replicate. Even WoW after all these years is beginning its slow inevitable decline, which might signify more than anything, that the subscription based model is dead.

Yeah I'm quite aware WoW is a singular case, but I'm just fine with its model. If the game has quality and give good entertainment I have no problem paying every month for them. Of course I would never blindly pay THAT amount on any game. I neded to know the game very well before going into it, to be sure it's really worth the money.

But yeah, comparing with my friend, most of them are not alright about paying every month. They are all positive about B2P though (this includes buying new major patches/expansions).

[Inazuma]

Provided you're here in a year, I'm sure there will.

Forget about the year. It will be pay to win on day 1, lol.

[Reia]

Forget about the year. It will be pay to win on day 1, lol.


You know, considering there's no huge need to buy cash power items in a PvE game. Neither SEGA is worrying on making this game EXTREMELY HARD so you are forced to get the stuff to get decent chances to win. The investments will most likely be rare between players. I'm not either expecting it that they will do like Korea that "rigs" the grinding rates to even stupid chances like 1-3% for +9>+10 so you're forced up to get cash if you want your beloved +10 since there's no pressure due to the lack of a avatar power based PvP. Also most asian games tend to sell you your beloved scape dolls. Give you one free resurrection a day, even for their "monster hunter" like game. After that experience I will quote something from it's forum, it will sound a bit meanie but it says:



So I don't see PSO2 different than most PvE centered Chinese and Korean Instance based games or even console online games. Either Cash or Skill will make you win, you choose!

>Pay 2 Win?
>PvE game

Cool story bro but Win? What? You already win by beating in solo most stuff even on hardest settings, you dont need uber gear or be the cap level to do so! Unless by win you mean the classic "ego move of peackocking your +10s and show how better than others you are by doing speedruns of probably 10-20 seconds faster" which was 80% of the source of PSU's drama aside of Force being weak.

This comes from a serious speedrunner that retired after going back to real life for 3 years!

[buri-chan]

I'm cautiously pessimistic. There's just a sort of security to having paid for something. Sort of like if there are any problems, the company has more reason to assist me. And I just can't let go of all of the shenanigans with Universe's online issues. Still, it's pretty evident that Sega's putting a decent amount of effort into things, so there's no reason to raise the RUINED FOREVER flag yet.

[Vashyron]

"Unless by win you mean the classic "ego move of peackocking your +10s and show how better than others you are by doing speedruns of probably 10-20 seconds faster""

I've come to understand that this is the main reason some people are spewing PSO2 will be P2W.

"I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was."

[LeynasMoon]

>Pay 2 Win?
>PvE game

Cool story bro but Win? What? You already win by beating in solo most stuff even on hardest settings, you dont need uber gear or be the cap level to do so! Unless by win you mean the classic "ego move of peackocking your +10s and show how better than others you are by doing speedruns of probably 10-20 seconds faster" which was 80% of the source of PSU's drama aside of Force being weak.

This comes from a serious speedrunner that retired after going back to real life for 3 years!

This.

For me, it's always been like, who cares? It's just PSU, it's not even a hard game. I remember times in PSO though, random nice people giving away their awesome weapons to me, the general community was much less show-offy and more helpful by comparison.

[kyuuketsuki]

Even WoW after all these years is beginning its slow inevitable decline, which might signify more than anything, that the subscription based model is dead.
Uh, no. It signifies that WoW is old and people are moving on. Oh, and that people didn't want Kung Fu Panda in their WoW.

Also, y'know, SWtOR is doing pretty well, and it has a (drum roll please) monthly subscription.

[Griffin]

Uh, no. It signifies that WoW is old and people are moving on. Oh, and that people didn't want Kung Fu Panda in their WoW.

Also, y'know, SWtOR is doing pretty well, and it has a (drum roll please) monthly subscription.

Mainly because of the IP. Everybody wants to be a Jedi!

[NoiseHERO]

But guys...

Your ego and elitism and dedication shouldn't be shown by how much time you put into the games (Or money, but time IS money.)

IT SHOULD BE SHOWN IN CHALLENGE MODE!

If you suck in challenge mode then you're a nobody!

BWAHAHAHAHA!

The economy, and my access to fashion stuff is what I'm more worried about. e_e

[redroses]

Forget about the year. It will be pay to win on day 1, lol.

Damn sure it will be, if it's about who gets the afro first.

[Reia]

But guys...

Your ego and elitism and dedication shouldn't be shown by how much time you put into the games (Or money, but time IS money.)

IT SHOULD BE SHOWN IN CHALLENGE MODE!

If you suck in challenge mode then you're a nobody!

BWAHAHAHAHA!

The economy, and my access to fashion stuff is what I'm more worried about. e_e

Did you remember the story of the guy I said about the HUmar who did Ep1 Ultimate with a HUmar with nothing more than fists?


You remind me of how useless that function was that the only time I found it real funny was that professional PSO Japanese video where the LPer dare himself clearing The whole Episode 1 in Ultimate Mode using a HUmar and by doing nothing more than punching, use TECHs (Which aint great as HUmar), and DONT MOVE! use the HUmar unarmed animations to move (which I still say he defeated falz by mere luck with being unable to dodge megids), and no items too neither looting (that some precious rares shown up too) and he jumped over with heavy attack if he lapped over. You can probably still find that video around Nico Nico Douga xD

Since I watched that video 8 years ago he always been my personal PSO Hero!

[NoiseHERO]

Damn sure it will be, if it's about who gets the afro first.

I'm gettin' dat afro first! D<

@ fenrya I dunno about jump kicking to walk, but I'll probably be Mike Tysoning rappies barehanded anyway.

[Reia]

I'm gettin' dat afro first! D<

@ fenrya I dunno about jump kicking to walk, but I'll probably be Mike Tysoning rappies barehanded anyway.

Well it wasn't about looking cool but, how he managed to clear it lol I still think he got to do it a lot of tryes to be that lucky with Falz Megids. And wins internets on how he deals with Vol Opt 2.0

Now something funny to watch would be how people who depends on Cash items deals when being thrown to Challenge mode! I hope the EXP boost items dont give a 2-3 levels handicap compared to a free.

[Ark22]

Challenge mode separates the men from the MANLY men.

[NoiseHERO]

Challenge mode separates the men from the MANLY men.

Challenge mode + Afro separates the men from the BAD MUTHA FUCKAS!

[Reia]

Challenge mode separates the men from the MANLY men.

So that makes me into a Manly girl? Just use Badass please.

[Griffin]

So that makes me into a Manly girl? Just use Badass please.

Wonder Woman and She Hulk come to mind!

[Reia]

Wonder Woman and She Hulk come to mind!

D= Well then! I guess I'll make my HUmarl on how I look irl so you guys stop getting those ideas but dont expect something appealing out of it lol

Now that I said it I wonder what would happen if they do the thing Actual Asian F2P MMOs do that they restrict gender to the gender of the real user, forcing out a personal info verify too lol. In a game almost all female characters were turned into male characters that still kept the "moe" of their female variants, therefore it was full of traps, people started using stupid hats and ugly helmets since then!

[Ark22]

If Fenrya turned into Power Girl on the other hand.................=)

[Reia]

If Fenrya turned into Power Girl on the other hand.................=)

Is being unnatturaly intelligent considered a superpower?

[NoiseHERO]

fenrya there are things you don't say on the internet outside of facebook and real life image threads.

NOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE MOE MONSTERS STEALING FROM YOUR PANTY DRAWER!

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

D= Well then! I guess I'll make my HUmarl on how I look irl so you guys stop getting those ideas but dont expect something appealing out of it lol

Now that I said it I wonder what would happen if they do the thing Actual Asian F2P MMOs do that they restrict gender to the gender of the real user, forcing out a personal info verify too lol. In a game almost all female characters were turned into male characters that still kept the "moe" of their female variants, therefore it was full of traps, people started using stupid hats and ugly helmets since then! That seems quite unlikely. Fanservice has too much of a market to so easily restrict the player's character's gender. There's also the appeal of girls being able to play as guys to keep the more horny male players off their backs.

[Reia]

fenrya there are things you don't say on the internet outside of facebook and real life image threads.

NOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE MOE MONSTERS STEALING FROM YOUR PANTY DRAWER!

Well, it's only moe when it's talked about Anime, if there were real life pics I guess my secret will scare some people off. If you wanna know why you're welcome to ask in my profile page,

Now topic related, I can't lie about my appeareance either because real life friends gonna play this too since it's free, the last time I tryed to be more Moe than adult was in PSU as a moefied CAST loli nekomimi, my real life partner Tetsuo said to everyone I'm not that cute lol. Because I'm way older than loli lol, Some more years and I fear I might become a hag ;_;

[Ark22]

Lol I can imagine all the fun adventures the closed beta will tell.

[LoveRappy]

Uh, no. It signifies that WoW is old and people are moving on. Oh, and that people didn't want Kung Fu Panda in their WoW.

Also, y'know, SWtOR is doing pretty well, and it has a (drum roll please) monthly subscription.

WoW does need to move to the F2P mode. the game is very outdated and old, thats why its declining. they also still have the nerve to sell every expansion seperate. they really cant see why the game is dwindling? the game would really benefit if it went unrestrictive F2P with tons of new mounts/pets/transmog gear for sale.

SW:TOR is a new game, its of course gonna have a nice population. give it a while more, it will start to decline once the new factor wears off.

in all honesty, subscription based online games cant really survive in this day. or at least, not for very long. wouldnt be surprised if XBL is free when the next Xbox hits.

[Randomness]

Shouldn't this thread be merged with the other one?

[Primobol]

WoW does need to move to the F2P mode. the game is very outdated and old, thats why its declining. they also still have the nerve to sell every expansion seperate. they really cant see why the game is dwindling? the game would really benefit if it went unrestrictive F2P with tons of new mounts/pets/transmog gear for sale.

SW:TOR is a new game, its of course gonna have a nice population. give it a while more, it will start to decline once the new factor wears off.

in all honesty, subscription based online games cant really survive in this day. or at least, not for very long. wouldnt be surprised if XBL is free when the next Xbox hits.

I don't have a "disagree"button on this forum, but I must say: you're wrong about WoW.

And when you say a game is alive because it's F2P. Well do you think a game is alive just because servers are still up while the game itself is totally screwed up with cash shop babies? Like, no balance, no limits on the cash items etc. Heck, some times people say the game is alive, but its new F2P community is less active than the one on its "golden" P2P/B2P days.

Again I'm not talking about profit. The F2P model usually is more profitable. But the quality of the game will suffer in 90% of the cases.

[Drithe]

Whining about the Cash SHop?

All PSO nerds will pay it ......... and they will love it! Including myself.

:)

End of Line.

[Remius]

D= Well then! I guess I'll make my HUmarl on how I look irl so you guys stop getting those ideas but dont expect something appealing out of it lol

Now that I said it I wonder what would happen if they do the thing Actual Asian F2P MMOs do that they restrict gender to the gender of the real user, forcing out a personal info verify too lol. In a game almost all female characters were turned into male characters that still kept the "moe" of their female variants, therefore it was full of traps, people started using stupid hats and ugly helmets since then!

ahahah

Do you really, really, really, really, really think japan would piss off 90% of their fanbase like that?



Who else ended up watching that super boring Infinity Grand Prix for PSP2i in order to get that very first PSO2 footage? Does anyone remember what the players look like? Haha does anyone remember what their characters looked like?



I usually think nothing of it because 50% of my character slots are always female, but seeing it in real life is just the funniest shit ever. Maybe it's because they were all children.

[NoiseHERO]

ahahah

Do you really, really, really, really, really think japan would piss off 90% of their fanbase like that?



Who else ended up watching that super boring Infinity Grand Prix for PSP2i in order to get that very first PSO2 footage? Does anyone remember what the players look like? Haha does anyone remember what their characters looked like?



I usually think nothing of it because 50% of my character slots are always female, but seeing it in real life is just the funniest shit ever. Maybe it's because they were all children.

That one where we had to listen to those goons sing the infinity opening every 3 minutes as they made it obvious that they're not good at live shows? (lol SEGA why'd you make those terrible openings?)

I was too busy being annoyed at the thought that it was mostly about infinity and things in it I didn't care about, the short PSO2 part at the end forcing me to sit through it all. D:

[Remius]

yes tons of obnoxious singing and "ENNNNNFINITYY POINTOOOO"


In fact every vocal theme from Phantasy Star after PSO has just been plain obnoxious. Makes it even worse they jam it in your ear when you hover over the game in XMB

[BIG OLAF]

I remember sitting through that Infinity Grand Prix. I wanted to break my skull on my desk. I think most of us were in the same Livestream.

[Remius]

It was sooooo boring

then i saw the PSO2 footage

"why's it so ugly"

[BIG OLAF]

Yes, I remember you and a couple others complaining nonstop the whole time. Good times.

[Remius]

Nah, wasn't me.


Unless you mean i was complaining about how boring the grand prix was, in which case yes it was sooooo boringggg

[NoiseHERO]

I want this game to come out while I'm still a jobless loser already, I'm starting to post here like it's MSN again...

Now I gotta troll this moorebounce guy when he replies to my troll bait in that should've waited till the 5th.

[Remius]

ITS ALL MY FAULT SORRY maybe i should stop replying

I'd join in on the delicious trolling but it's only gonna take someone who doesn't like me to get me perma banned again

[Xenobia]

Its now F2P or not? That discussion has been around for over a year and still not certain.

I actually stopped becausen its hilarious how such a simple discussion can create that much of crossfire. F2P is new possibility because in the past PSO did never fully evolve using P2P. I dont care how many clothes, grinders or what else people buy on a cash shop as long as it doesnt destroy the game balance in a critical way. Actually in PSU the grinder glitch created more of imbalance than most cash shops could create because a few people had endless amount of meseta while majority had none, it completly destroyed the economics. However, they didnt even pay by real blood, aka shiny coins, they just cheated. Those who spend real blood are the ones keeping the stuff running, not the glitchers, they just create suspicion and even less customers.

Its indeed true that some MMORPGs started with P2P (such as Age of Conan) and then they kinda had a to small user base and then they started to turn it into F2P. But at that point they already did lose a huge amount of possible casual customers because the entire progress took them years. It would have been a advantage just to start F2P from the beginning.


I'm cautiously pessimistic. There's just a sort of security to having paid for something. Sort of like if there are any problems, the company has more reason to assist me. .
Did they ever assist you when you had a problem while P2P was up (kinda such as "call a GM")? Did they keep the server up all the time? Did they regulary update game with freshly developed content? Usualy all they did was to enable/disable event, and to enable content already on the disc. So, what kind of security we are talking about? From my view there was close to none.

Guess a new concept can be promising. The thing simply is, we have a very imbalanced real life income and imbalanced possibilitys. However, a few might be willing to spend huge coins and could easely make up for many missing contributions. On the other hand, players never been able to play will finally get a opportunity. Thus raising the willpower for the contributors to invest even more.

F2P is a double edged sword but certainly not a bad one. Some F2P games are in fact very rewarding and the devs are doing huge amount of cash with.

[goldwing]

But guys...

Your ego and elitism and dedication shouldn't be shown by how much time you put into the games (Or money, but time IS money.)

IT SHOULD BE SHOWN IN CHALLENGE MODE!

If you suck in challenge mode then you're a nobody!

BWAHAHAHAHA!

The economy, and my access to fashion stuff is what I'm more worried about. e_e

Agreed there lol

[Reia]

Its now F2P or not?

For a glimpse I thought how close to April fools we are. Gladly it was announced a bunch of days ago so it won't happen.

[Xenobia]

Right, i see the possibility to close as zero because firstly the only time they had F2P (open access) was when they released PSO V.2 and that was PAL (Europe) only. The only reason it was F2P is because it got released kinda late and it was already half of its regular life eaten away at that point, so Sega decided to make it F2P for that version.

However, since that day, it never was F2P ever again and JP mentality rarely will change, its not something i consider typical to JP mind. So yeah, i still told what i had to say regarding that matter.

[Angelo]

Right, i see the possibility to close as zero because firstly the only time they had F2P was when they released PSO V.2 and that was PAL (Europe) only. The only reason it was F2P is because it got released kinda late and it was already half of its regular life eaten away at that point, so Sega decided to make it F2P for that version.

However, since that day, it never was F2P ever again and JP mentality rarely will change, its not something i consider typical to JP mind. So yeah, i still told what i had to say regarding that matter.

PSU JP has been F2P and successful for awhile now.

[Mitz]

PSU JP has been F2P and successful for awhile now.

Do you have SoJ's inside numbers? How do you know if it's successful?

[Xenobia]

Ok, about JP PSU i kinda lost track because i played on Xbox and on my Xbox its still P2P, and i already gave up even to hope for a change. Because 18$ a month is just to much for me. Just not worth it for close to zero support, content delayed by a half year, sorry... just NO. Thats why i stopped, and worse P2P condition (not only amount, locked credit card and hard to cancel by phone calls...). However im kinda sure that they did put a lot of artificial limitations on the free users, which will give them lot of disadvantage at gaming, resulting into a rather frugal joy. But at least they made a certain step toward new directions.


But im still not lying because i talked about PSO, and at PSO its true what i said.

[Angelo]

Do you have SoJ's inside numbers? How do you know if it's successful?

Well, it's still around.
Sega tends to pack up and jump ship if they're not making a profit anymore.

I guess the definition of success is subjective here, I consider success to be 'maintenance'.

[NoiseHERO]

But they had an update on the 9th. D:

They even re-balanced some skills n stuff. D:

[Xenobia]

Well, maintenance means a lot for Sega ;) . Because the server shuttdowns is as good as unavoidable. As long as stuff is running, its good stuff. It have to be said, kinda like Age of Conan, the condition wasnt from the beginning, which is a disadvantage as far as im able to judge, including some nasty limitations such as "unable to have or enter a room".

Anyway, got several Xbox chars now and its to late to switch for me. I got to much other stuff to handle. Either Xbox will get open access too, if not im finish with till the day PSO2 is released. PSU is pretty much out of question if i have to start all over again, to less time for it. Failure is that i didnt move to JP PC from the beginning.

[Angelo]

I guess I should've said 'self-sustaining'....

[ImSword]

This will make alot of pso/psu players mad most likely, I mean, cash shops are terrible, there will be imbalance and with it being F2P bots and everything will be everywhere on it. Bad move in my opinion.

[Xenobia]

Economical balance is nothing but a dream in a world full of core-freaks and some glitchers who can basically gather 1000 times the meseta a average player got. Time is money and money is time, but as long as you can buy everything a cash shop have to offer from a player shop, either you spend time or money. Best example can be seen on EVE online where you could buy your gametime only by using ingame currency. The balance we speak of, will never be there, inequality is here as long as we do not have huge taxes for the rich. Thats same such as RL, and not any different ingame. There isnt a single game having taxes so we have the biggest capitalism we know of.