3/28 blog on cash shop & beta

[Mike]

The official blog (http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11206121494.html) was updated today with some clarification on how the Arks Cash will work and some a small change on the closed beta. First, the level cap on the closed beta has been lowered from the announced 30 to 20 to accomodate for balance changes. All the new stuff announced for the closed beta will still be there but the level cap has just been reduced to 20.

Now, for the cash shop news. To repeat what was announced in the 2nd Media Briefing:


All three versions of the game will be free to play and free to download.

There will be no special level cap for those who don't spend money.

There will be no direct selling of items.



The blog then continues to list the categories of items and some of examples.

System-related Items
Storage expansion
Skill tree expansion (not buying new skills but being able to have a "new" skill tree. Maybe this means you'll be have multiple builds at once?)
Opening your room or shop
Accessing the item trader
Some of these items will be permanent and some will have a time limit. Packs of these options will also be for sale.


Consumables
Scape dolls
"Super" Star Atomizers (this is something I just made up. Items that can be used to heal large amounts of HP when you don't have access to techs are what is being sold and that sounds like a Super Star Atomizer to me)
Other certain consumable items
Scape Dolls will only be available in the cash shop but Moon Atomizers will still be normal drops.


Effeciency Items
Grind chance boosters
Drop rate boosters
EXP boosters
All of these items are time based and only apply to monsters. EXP, meseta, and items are obtainable through "Client Orders" but these items won't affect them.


Avatar/Character Items
Clothes, hairstyle, etc.
Part of the beauty shop will also be cash-based


There will also be two gatchas called "Arks Scratch." They differ by cost to use them. The cheaper of the two scratchs will contain will contain various cash shop items including costumes. The more expensive of the two will contain only costumes. Most of the items obtainable from the Arks Scratchs can be sold in player shops. According to the blog, the gatcha is a way to keep item prices down as selling individual costumes would "cost more than we think." Gatchas, for those who don't know, are like those gumball machines you see at the entrances and exits of supermarkets. You put your money in and something comes out at random.

As for cheaters, bots, gold sellers, and other nasty types, the blog says that because some of the communication abilities are locked to players who don't purchase system related items, they'll be able to keep a handle on the situation. And of course, bans and stuff will be handed out as needed.

Finally, the game's main artwork, done like something out of PSO:

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1789&pictureid=25763

Also here, have a Higher Res version of the Artwork in the OP and some other Variants:
[spoiler-box]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12804628/PSO2/Artwork/077.jpg


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12804628/PSO2/Artwork/pso2_background_jack.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12804628/PSO2/Artwork/pso2_mmcal201204_1920x1080.jpg[/spoiler-box]

[Macman]

No direct selling of items

Thank god, though I'm not too thrilled about the Rate boost option. EXP boost is one thing, EXP is guaranteed no matter how unlucky you are, but a droprate boost is essentially indirectly selling items for cash.

[Mike]

Thank god, though I'm not too thrilled about the Rate boost option.
Only that? Except for the storage expansion, the entire System category has me turned off. Completely.

[Zyrusticae]

I do hope this can quiet down some of the haters... but, y'know...


http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u35/ShinyMewtwo/haters_gonna_hate.gif


Edit: The "system" category is just a way to fight off RMTers/botters. It is a necessary evil since they don't have a "freemium" (P2P) option, and since the privileges are permanent I have no issue with it. Well, provided the prices are not outrageous, that is.

Edit #2: UNLESS the items with "time limits" are the very ones I think should be permanent, in which case Sega can go screw themselves. But I really doubt they're that stupid, especially after doing so many other things right.

[Macman]

Only that? Except for the storage expansion, the entire System category has me turned off. Completely.My mistake, I missed the "open room/shop" and item trader option.

...Yeah that shouldn't be a cash shop privilege.

A good option for cash shop would be extra character slots. With so many classes I like the design of, I hope they'll give the option for that.

I get the feeling gatchas won't carry on overseas because of the whole gambling business. I could be wrong, though with TF2's whole "crate" nonsense.

EDIT: Actually now that I think about it, having the whole room/trader options in the cash shop isn't much different than PSU's free course restrictions, is it? You have to remember you pay $0 up front to play this game. If the prices aren't outrageous I can be a little lenient on some things being buy only.

[Mike]

EDIT: Actually now that I think about it, having the whole room/trader options in the cash shop isn't much different than PSU's free course restrictions, is it?
You're right, I suppose. It's been so long since I played PSU I had forgotten about that. It still doesn't make me very happy.

[Randomness]

You're right, I suppose. It's been so long since I played PSU I had forgotten about that. It still doesn't make me very happy.

Maybe if they throw up a reasonably priced permanent unlock for the system category as a whole or something, then it wouldn't be quite so bad (Compared to cost of PSU, anyways) Basically, something to make it effectively an optional Guild Wars type model.

[Mike]

We'll just have to wait for the closed beta and see.

[Griffin]

Not a fan of gatcha, but it's reasonable enough for me. I'm sure a few people here will be happy about that.

[DayDreamer]

The system doesn't give a HUGE advantage to people who buy cash shop to people who don't. That's all I really care about.Chances are if you weren't willing to pay for the subscription fee that we thought it would have then this free to play model is great. If you were willing to pay then the (probably) little amount of money you put in to the mostly cosmetic based shop (which isn't even monthly like the subscription would be) shouldn't be an issue. Arguably some items will be timed but lets admit, we've most likely have seen worse. I think free to play is something phantasy star needs in order to grow. This model will attract tons of new people and possibly future fans of the series. This is just my view point on the topic

[Blueblur]

Maybe if they throw up a reasonably priced permanent unlock for the system category as a whole or something, then it wouldn't be quite so bad (Compared to cost of PSU, anyways) Basically, something to make it effectively an optional Guild Wars type model.

That's the kind of thing I'm hoping for. I don't mind paying a a few dollars to permanently unlock stuff like the system items if it restricts bots and the like from ruining the game for the rest of us.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

"Skill tree expansion (not buying new skills but being able to have a "new" skill tree. Maybe this means you'll be have multiple builds at once?)"

this makes me a little worried. seems like it could be potentially pretty unfair. however if this basically means you can be a hybrid ranger/hunter/force, i don't mind -as- much. still would bug me, unless it's priced reasonably (~5 dollars, which means you pay 10 dollars total to unlock the two other professions if you were already one of the three.)

[Mike]

this makes me a little worried. seems like it could be potentially pretty unfair.
To be honest, I'm not exactly sure what that meant in the blog. It sounds like you can have multiple builds of a single class at once. Probably not all active at once though. Nothing related to sub-classes or hybrids.

[Dre_o]

Hmm the "System" bit is kinda part of what I feared (unless you start with a reasonable amount of storage regardless and this is just for the hoarders out there), it is far better than being able to directly buy weapons/ armor / experience.

Again, Sega is doing its homework and impressing me with the results.

EDIT: On the artwork: I really like that piece except the HUmar. He looks way too stiff....I know what he reminds me of! He reminds me of a really old Ninja Turtles action figure! Legs hard planted to the side and arms out like a dude whose muscles are too big for him to put his arms to his sides.

[Macman]

To be honest, I'm not exactly sure what that meant in the blog. It sounds like you can have multiple builds of a single class at once. Probably not all active at once though. Nothing related to sub-classes or hybrids.

It probably means you can have multiple presets of skillsets without having to respec everytime you want to change it up. Respecs will probably cost meseta similar to type changes in PSU.

[Razelis]

oh god lol...............

I'm sorry, call me doomer gloomer all you like but "Timed" is written all over the system cash items.

If something won't be timed here its the customes.

[Spellbinder]

To be honest, I'm not exactly sure what that meant in the blog. It sounds like you can have multiple builds of a single class at once. Probably not all active at once though. Nothing related to sub-classes or hybrids.

I read it just a minute ago, and since I always confuse the nuance between 新しい and 新たな since they both mean new (in basic dictionaries) I double checked the difference. My best guess here is that, as the post script detail implied, you're not getting skills only available through cash shop, but you get a different variation of the already present skill trees.

I say this since he said they're not new cash only skill trees (今までなかったもの), but "new" skill trees (改めて行うもの).

Silly Japanese and its semantics.

[r00tabaga]

I guess for me it all depends on how long "timed" will be. Other than that im still excited. I am all for SEGA making money bc I need this series to flourish.
I am telling you, this game is gonna attract a TON of new players. More is always better..........ok, usually better.

[Randomness]

That's the kind of thing I'm hoping for. I don't mind paying a a few dollars to permanently unlock stuff like the system items if it restricts bots and the like from ruining the game for the rest of us.

Yeah, the other way I could see it working is a monthly price for everything, which would also be fine by me (assuming it's reasonable, again).

After all, there's always trading for rares.

[moorebounce]

With all the game clients being free to download I'm sure Sega will have the localization done on the game by launch. Because I know everybody and their momma (who loves PSO) isn't gonna wait for a localized version months later when people will put guides up to help with the Japanese menus.

Plus the money I save not buying the game and paying a subscription will help me upgrade my video card and will make me want to buy stuff.

I just hope Sega does a good job on the security front. That's my only isssue at this point.

[Mike]

but you get a different variation of the already present skill trees.
The question would then be what would make people want to buy the another skill tree? It would have to somehow be better than a previous one to make people want one. The only balanced tree I can think of is one that switches weapon priority. Launcher skills over assult rifle, for example, if rifle skills are the default. But could you charge people for that. Just another thing to look in to when the closed beta starts.

[Mag-X]

It's not entirely clear, but as long as I don't have to pay to access my room and player shops like I did in PSU, that's fine. I don't really care if anyone else can access my room, and I doubt I'll have anything worth selling in a shop before the U.S. version comes out.

[NoGoBoard]

Was it ever said that these skill trees you can buy are different from the current ones, if so that's weird. If it's how I think it is, which is just the ability to have access to an extra skill tree that you can switch too on the fly, that would be awesome. The ability to have multiple builds isn't something new to ORPGs. Sometimes people want to try new builds without having to respec completely or make a new character. Although, most ORPGs let you do this by paying an amount of ingame currency, not actual money.

I for one would like to have multiple builds, mainly so I could have a defensive build and an offensive build on my Hunter or a support and an offensive build on Force.

[Strider_M]

I have no problems with this so far.

As I was already willing to pay for downloading the game and paying a monthly fee. I'm ok with paying for the room and the other system related items. Especially if it's Less than $60 (the price of a standard PS3/Xbox/360 game.

The Skill tree expansion thing has me interested; as Mike said it wasn't clear yet. I kinda hope I can buy skills from different classes even if it's nerfed for me.

I don't know about everyone else, but I liked in PSOriginal everyone could do some form of magic.

DEFINITELY BUYING RESTA.

Edit: But wait! I'll have to pay for Scape dolls!?!?!?

.....*groan*...... I guess.... since moon atomizers will be ingame normally. I can probably deal with that.

[Aiex]

I hope they don't make the base exp so low that buying an exp booster monthly becomes nearly practically requisite. Aside from that I think everything seems pretty reasonable. I mean, there's got to be enough incentive to buy stuff that Sega can make back what it cost to make the game.

Buying a monthly exp and drop rate booster probably won't be much more than a monthly subscription anyway.

[tkdyo]

I am encouraged by what I see. Nothing seems ridiculous as long as the prices arnt terrible for the timed items. The only problem I have is scape dolls...I hope they are still a rare drop in the game itself and not CS only. But the rest is great. I would definitely be willing to pay my 10 bucks a month to keep the game going from these options :)

[Alucard V]

I think free to play is something phantasy star needs in order to grow. This model will atract tons of new people and possibly future fans of the series. This is just my view point on the topic

I'm with the DayDreamer on this. It gets the Phantasy Star name out there.
If Sega follows publishers like AeriaGames with pre-paid cards and so on I wouldn't complain.

[Neith]

Was really hoping there wouldn't be any kind of EXP/rare boosts available, shame.

Having to pay to get access to the trader seems stupid. Does this mean players can't trade any items if they don't pay up?

Massive, massive disappointment. The game being free to download helps cut costs severely but I still don't like the idea of buying...well, pretty much everything.

I think a more pressing question would be: what CAN you do without the cash shop? Not a lot, by the look of things. Would much rather pay a monthly fee as this could end up being far more expensive in the end.

Edit: If it sounds like I'm being overly negative, it's because I loved Alpha and this is definitely the game I want to play. Having so much stuff as cash-shop only is a huge turn off for me.

[ZER0 DX]

All of those system options better be a permanent buy.

[SELENNA]

Wow that sucks. I don't understand why they can't sell the game and have a system like Guild Wars. Cash Shop is good as long as you can get the items / stuff by hunting. I think they'll change it though because people WILL complain and they've been listening.

[Strider_M]

I remember those random rare/exp boosts PSU:AoTI gave out during some events and even when that happened, it never guaranteed you would get the rare you wanted. I wouldn't say it's the same as say: "Hey I want a Heaven's Punisher" and then proceed to buy one using Arkz Cash.



But still to have access to Item Trader and My Room and extra inventory by buying it with Arkz Cash is fine as long as it isn't too much. (say.... $50 total? Which would probably be the price of the game had it been priced.)



Anyway. I just hope nothing is game breaking or game breaking effects will be dealt with quickly.

[Primobol]

Coming from the other thread where I was "dooming" the F2P idea.

The system category seems like "preemium account" services, and I would not bother to pay (even monthly) for that.

Now BOOSTS? That stinks.

Pay real money for my beloved scape dolls doesn't make sense either.

Clothes, hairstyles I don't mind, I'm fine with it.

[youcantcatchtheblue]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm definitely gonna invest my money into this A LOT.

Not because I want the goodies they'll provide, but because I love this series and I love SEGA and THEY DESERVE OUR MONEY.

I was ready to pay a subscription every month for this and now that they've made it free for everyone else to be happy, it makes me want to give them my money even more. I LOVE YOU SEGA!!!

[Arika]

Since you don't have to pay your monthly fee anymore, you can save them up to buy some of those one-time necessary such as open shop and system tree skill, no?

anyway my opinion to this is that.. it is totally same as PSU-JP. Basically you need to put some money in to fully operate your room shop and some extra function. well... at least they allow you to enter your room free tho. (in PSU u can't even enter your room lol)

[•Col•]

System-related Items
Storage expansion
Skill tree expansion (not buying new skills but being able to have a "new" skill tree. Maybe this means you'll be have multiple builds at once?)
Opening your room or shop
Accessing the item trader
Some of these items will be permanent and some will have a time limit. Packs of these options will also be for sale.


EW and EW.

Time limits for bought items? Here we go...........


Since you don't have to pay your monthly fee anymore, you can save them up to buy some of those one-time necessary such as open shop and system tree skill, no?

I'd be fine with that... If it wasn't for the fact that those COULD be the time-related ones. :l

[Jonth]

@ Neith: I think it is jumping the gun to say you can't do a lot without the cash shop. You can still party with friends, get to max level, and search and possibly find the best items in the game. I will say, that I am worried about a few things. Not to the point that I am anywhere close to not considering playing, but to the point where I think some things might bug me while I play.

The system related purchases are the main thing. I can deal with others having higher EXP/Drop rates, and others having fancier clothes than me, but when others have access to a crucial aspect of the game and I don't, that bugs me.

I have a bit of a quirk when it comes to buying things out of a cash shop. Although I wouldn't have a problem paying a $10 a month subscription (because I am paying for the game), I have a problem buying cash shop items (because I am then paying for imaginary items in an imaginary world). Even if it comes out to the same amount of money, it is still a mental block that I have about situations like this.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad they are using a F2P model as it will definitely bring in more players, make the game more profitable, and keep it running for a longer period of time. There is a lot of things that can go wrong with a cash shop however. I hope, like others, there is a one time payment to unlock the system stuff. I can deal with that. Then it feels like I am paying for the full version of the game.

By the way, has anyone noticed that they said the "STANDARD" version of the game will be F2P and download? Could this mean that there will be a premium version that requires a subscription but has things like the system purchases unlocked and gives you so much Arks Cash a month? Turbine (Dungeons & Dragons online and Lord of the Rings Online) went with this kind of model, and I liked it.

[Inazuma]

PSO 2, confirmed for pay to win. And this is only the start. You can bet your ass it will keep getting worse over time.

I could boast to the naysayers and tell them "I told you so", but I really wish I wasn't right about this. Anyway, it doesn't matter to me anymore. If this is how the game is gonna be, I refuse to play it.

The entire MMO genre is ruined now because people support this bullshit business model. What a fucking shame. Well, maybe it's just ruined for me, because most players actually prefer paying more for less. I just don't get it.

You guys can have fun playing a "game" completely designed around getting as much real money out of you as possible. I'm pretty much completely fed up with modern gaming in general, at this point.

[Jonth]

PSO 2, confirmed for pay to win. And this is only the start. You can bet your ass it will keep getting worse over time.

I could boast to the naysayers and tell them "I told you so", but I really wish I wasn't right about this. Anyway, it doesn't matter to me anymore. If this is how the game is gonna be, I refuse to play it.

The entire MMO genre is ruined now because people support this bullshit business model. What a fucking shame. Well, maybe it's just ruined for me, because most players actually prefer paying more for less. I just don't get it.

You guys can have fun playing a "game" completely designed around getting as much real money out of you as possible. I'm pretty much completely fed up with modern gaming in general, at this point.

U mad bro?

[Reia]

You know, considering there's no huge need to buy cash power items in a PvE game. Neither SEGA is worrying on making this game EXTREMELY HARD so you are forced to get the stuff to get decent chances to win. The investments will most likely be rare between players. I'm not either expecting it that they will do like Korea that "rigs" the grinding rates to even stupid chances like 1-3% for +9>+10 so you're forced up to get cash if you want your beloved +10 since there's no pressure due to the lack of a avatar power based PvP. Also most asian games tend to sell you your beloved scape dolls. Give you one free resurrection a day, even for their "monster hunter" like game. After that experience I will quote something from it's forum, it will sound a bit meanie but it says:


If you suck for meeting death a lot, use your cash, and if you don't like it then stop getting killed! Be glad there's no death penalty!

So I don't see PSO2 different than most PvE centered Chinese and Korean Instance based games or even console online games. Either Cash or Skill will make you win, you choose!

[NoiseHERO]

Looks like they're not selling missions, and I could care less if people can level faster than me, never really cared about who got drops first...

The system items I'm not sure about.

What REALLY bugged me was "costumes in the gacha" I'm like "great" now instead of like 5 bucks I have to pay 35 bucks gambling for a costume that's 1 out of like 8 that I actually want and then I'll have to do it before that outfit rotates out of the gacha...

They do say that MOST will be buyable from player shops, but I don't like the word "most" just yet.

And does that really say you need to spend cash to open your room/shop? Now I have to pay rent?! Jus' make me pay for the whole game then! D< e_e

[Reia]

Looks like they're not selling missions, and I could care less if people can level faster than me, never really cared about who got drops first...

The system items I'm not sure about.

What REALLY bugged me was "costumes in the gacha" I'm like "great" now instead of like 5 bucks I have to pay 35 bucks gambling for a costume that's 1 out of like 8 that I actually want and then I'll have to do it before that outfit rotates out of the gacha...

They do say that MOST will be buyable from player shops, but I don't like the word "most" just yet.

And does that really say you need to spend cash to open your room/shop? Now I have to pay rent?! Jus' make me pay for the whole game then! D< e_e

Well I don't feel like the kind of person of getting every new outfit just because it's "new", also most untradable outfits were from cameos and other things not really related with Phantasy Star. I'm glad that you can buy them, most japanese companies now a days exploit players money by making this cosmetics untradable, and a minor portion between this companies make this items have a horrible huge handicap between players too even if it looks like a cosmetic, making people look with designs that look that they dont match or ugly just for the sake of some overpowered stats. Example: Cyberstep's JP games like C21 or their Smash brothers like Spin off game Cosmic Break. That to be up to the average player you gotta spend insane amounts of money (150 dollars monthly for C21 and 50 for CB minimun) and they say that even the JP servers wouldn't be so dead if there was trading available.

[SuperChoco]

I'm fine with most of this, as long as the player shop only needs to be bought once.

[Remius]

Consumables
Scape dolls
"Super" Star Atomizers (this is something I just made up. Items that can be used to heal large amounts of HP when you don't have access to techs are what is being sold and that sounds like a Super Star Atomizer to me)
Other certain consumable items
Moon Atomizers will still be normal drops.


Effeciency Items
Grind chance boosters
Drop rate boosters
EXP boosters
All of these items are time based and only apply to monsters. EXP, meseta, and items are obtainable through "Client Orders" but these items won't affect them.



Welp.

Game over.

[Ark22]

Makes sense like PSP2 when you had the INSANE drop rate levels that were emergency missions. Didn't hurt the game one bit :P

[NoiseHERO]

Well I don't feel like the kind of person of getting every new outfit just because it's "new", also most untradable outfits were from cameos and other things not really related with Phantasy Star. I'm glad that you can buy them, most japanese companies now a days exploit players money by making this cosmetics untradable, and a minor portion between this companies make this items have a horrible huge handicap between players too even if it looks like a cosmetic, making people look with designs that look that they dont match or ugly just for the sake of some overpowered stats. Example: Cyberstep's JP games like C21 or their Smash brothers like Spin off game Cosmic Break.

I'm the kind of guy that ALWAYS gets the newest outfits and mixes and matches them (even though we can't mix and match em anymore) That is to me what rare weapons would be for everyone else.

Also I hope that NEVER hits PSO2... Everyone wearing retarded ass clothes looking like they made their clothes out of a bunch white rags and jumped into a giant bucket filled with rainbow paint and vocaloid boots just to get all the best stats.

Last game I played pretty much became that at the last minute, and everyone just looked the same, but wearing a stupid outfit and then I won an art contest in that game(technically) so my outfit got put into the game as a stat booster... so now everyone in the game is wearing that outfit for the stats and it's all "AUGH I CREATED A MONSTER!!! D<" and I just trolled everyone wearing it. (Most of em never realized I made it anyway.)

And wait, we can only get scape dolls through real cash now? Looks like cash spammers already own the economy.

[•Col•]

Makes sense like PSP2 when you had the INSANE drop rate levels that were emergency missions. Didn't hurt the game one bit :P

That is completely different than paying money for a limited EXP/Rare drop booster. :l

[Reia]

I agree with Ark22 responded. From the retired hardcore gamer point of view, you have to be very no life to even get every item in PSO and PSU, giving better chance for lower effort and a money sacrifice seems fine for the players lacking time, like I said before, either cash or skill will make you win, so you chose.

[Ark22]

Oooohh... that's what they're selling. Well you can choose to use it or just be a vet and grind the long hard way. Plus it will split the good players from the EXP boosting players. I still see no problem.

[•Col•]

I agree with Ark22 responded. From the retired hardcore gamer point of view, you have to be very no life to even get every item in PSO and PSU, giving better chance for lower effort and a money sacrifice seems fine for the players lacking time, like I said before, either cash or skill will make you win, so you chose.

The whole point of PSO was so that you COULDN'T get every weapon... If there was someone who actually got every weapon in it legitimately, they would literally need to have no life. I liked that weapons were so rare. When you actually got a decently rare weapon, you felt so boss.

Nowadays, most people seem fine just grabbing any cool looking weapon and being a Gary/Mary Stu. -_-


Oooohh... that's what they're selling. Well you can choose to use it or just be a vet and grind the long hard way. Plus it will split the good players from the EXP boosting players. I still see no problem.

Wrong.

"Hey, you know that rare you spent 3 weeks trying to get? Oh well yeah, people that bought the drop booster got several of them in just a few hours. It's actually only worth like 100 meseta in the player shops now."

[Reia]

Oooohh... that's what they're selling. Well you can choose to use it or just be a vet and grind the long hard way. Plus it will split the good players from the EXP boosting players. I still see no problem.

Now the question is... Is it really neccesary? Even the old RPG blizzard strategy guides mentioned gear is just a tool to make you beat the game so you dont actually need them if you already beat the game with what you already have.

I can agree with the terms of designing cosmetics, back then I was one of Grand Fantasia's biggest outfit designer that I did for fun and most became cash outfits, when games like Eden Eternal released they decided to give them status boost so I started to Meh at the fact that people use them for stats and not cosmetic.

Cash spammers owning the economy? I don't think we should bother anyways. If they want to use real life money to become rich ingame rather than something better it's their problem, not ours. Besides I hope it works like this so SEGA can make better games with those funds.

There's a huge difference about My Room and Trading in P2P and F2P PSU. It was that in the first months of the game you didn't actually need them, so basically in the P2P model it was cool to have a room but if you think off, you don't really need it when you're a newbie, I suggest to dont rent it until the time you really need to use it arrives, like you have a full warehouse of the best synthesis boards and best mats and all ready so the moment you pay up for it you exploit it like crazy. That way you save a lot of money rather than paying the P2P model, unless, you're an anxious type.

[Kazzi]

System-related Items
Storage expansion
Skill tree expansion (not buying new skills but being able to have a "new" skill tree. Maybe this means you'll be have multiple builds at once?)
Opening your room or shop
Accessing the item trader
Some of these items will be permanent and some will have a time limit. Packs of these options will also be for sale.

In regards to the last one, does this mean we'll have to pay in order to be able to trade with people?

[GCoffee]

Arika is right, this is indeed playing out a lot like PSU after the free course was implemented, if a bit less restricted.

There, you paid your monthly sub fee and gained access to room and shop, as well as the ability to change classes;
in PSO2, you buy room and shop access, as well as the ability to change skill trees (classes?), which all last for a month and in price is equal to a monthly sub fee.

In the end, there is no bloody difference. Oh wait, there is! More people will feel attracted to trying the game out like this!
This way of lookign at it actually quite easeses my concern. Thanks, Arika.

[Ezodagrom]

In the bumped.org blog the room/shop and trading parts were translated to:

Extended functionality in regards to setting up My Room/My Shop, and Item Trade services.If the translation is accurate, I wonder if those features are available to players who don't use the cash shop, but with limitations.

[•Col•]

Arika is right, this is indeed playing out a lot like PSU after the free course was implemented, if a bit less restricted.

There, you paid your monthly sub fee and gained access to room and shop, as well as the ability to change classes;
in PSO2, you buy room and shop access, as well as the ability to change skill trees (classes?), which all last for a month and in price is equal to a monthly sub fee.

In the end, there is no bloody difference. Oh wait, there is! More people will feel attracted to trying the game out like this!
This way of lookign at it actually quite easeses my concern. Thanks, Arika.

OR it could be over $30 a month to have these system options.

Look, I can pull imaginary prices out of thin air too! =D

[Vashyron]

Pretty fine with this, just hope most of those in System there can be Permanent purchases or cheap enough for monthly or so.

Don't really care for the Scapes or Boosters and the Clothing I'll just trade for them.


Also here, have a Higher Res version of the Artwork in the OP and some other Variants:
[spoiler-box]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12804628/PSO2/Artwork/077.jpg


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12804628/PSO2/Artwork/pso2_background_jack.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12804628/PSO2/Artwork/pso2_mmcal201204_1920x1080.jpg[/spoiler-box]

[NoiseHERO]

The whole point of PSO was so that you COULDN'T get every weapon... If there was someone who actually got every weapon in it legitimately, they would literally need to have no life. I liked that weapons were so rare. When you actually got a decently rare weapon, you felt so boss.

Nowadays, most people seem fine just grabbing any cool looking weapon and being a Gary/Mary Stu. -_-



Wrong.

"Hey, you know that rare you spent 3 weeks trying to get? Oh well yeah, people that bought the drop booster got several of them in just a few hours. It's actually only worth like 100 meseta in the player shops now."

Whoa whoa, sorry if liking the way a weapon looks over the electronic numbers on it makes all of my characters mary sues. D<

And also you're wrong, D: from the looks, cashers will take over the economy, if only all 30 guys that spend 300 dollars a month will be getting everything first, they'll be inflating it. So that ONE thing you want, that seems to ALWAYS be in the player shops, also just so happens to cost 500 million meseta.

[Remius]

My two cents. The quotes will make this look way longer than it should be.


.

System-related Items
Storage expansion
Skill tree expansion (not buying new skills but being able to have a "new" skill tree. Maybe this means you'll be have multiple builds at once?)
Opening your room or shop
Accessing the item trader
Some of these items will be permanent and some will have a time limit. Packs of these options will also be for sale.



completely unnecessary.

I was afraid of this. The Skill Tree might not have an efficient means of backtracking because they expect you to have to trial-and-error your builds. With cash, of course. This is sooooo the reason i dont even play traditional MMOs. They give you the ability to ignorantly screw over your build, and then say "PAY US AND YOU CAN FIX IT". I see no reason to have to pay to trade items -- this was one of the most lax and arguably THE most well-done feature of PSU period. Now it's a cash-shop mechanic? And most likely time-based? Wow, great. Sega's been studying cash shops, i see.


So now, participating in the economy (selling/trading) and having complete control of your character build is cash-shop related. Yay. We're on a roll. Phantasy Star Online had a means of "screwing up your character build"...but they were called "MAGS" and you found another one by the 3rd gameplay hour...




Consumables
Scape dolls
"Super" Star Atomizers (this is something I just made up. Items that can be used to heal large amounts of HP when you don't have access to techs are what is being sold and that sounds like a Super Star Atomizer to me)
Other certain consumable items
Moon Atomizers will still be normal drops.

Im glad they didn't say anything about Mag Feeding items (although obviously they WILL show up). Selling Scape Dolls and fast healing items....ugh.

On one hand i never really cared for scape dolls in the first place, but the reason i never cared for them is because the ones that did drop, i saved until i needed them. Now we're able to buy them again like in PSU....wait, sorry, we HAVE to buy them now like in some other MMO. Except we have to pay cash for them.

So now, Cash Shop users are 1) immortal 2) dont need a Force to survive and can ignore the usual mate limit.

We are rolllliinnn



Effeciency Items
Grind chance boosters
Drop rate boosters
EXP boosters
All of these items are time based and only apply to monsters. EXP, meseta, and items are obtainable through "Client Orders" but these items won't affect them.

This is the one thing I was afraid of. Not EXP boosters, but Drop Rate and Grind Chance boosters. Hopefully this isn't an indication of how terrible the EXP, Drop Rate and Grind Rates are going to be. I was hoping they'd get with the picture and remove the retarded fail/success mechanic from grinding like they did in PSP2. Seems like the only reason it still exists is for cash shop purposes.

Only gets worse from here, really. Cash Shop users 1) level faster 2) have efficiency items (extremely vague) 3) have better grind rates (scares me) and 4) have "other consumables" (Also, EXTREMELY vague.)



Avatar/Character Items
Clothes, hairstyle, etc.
Part of the beauty shop will also be cash-based

Everyone saw this coming. I was actually somewhat surprised that PSO2's character creator had such a limited number of outfits, costume colors and even hair styles when even PSU had such a great collection.

Guess now we know why.



There will also be two gatchas called "Arks Scratch." They differ by cost to use them. The cheaper of the two scratchs will contain will contain various cash shop items including costumes. The more expensive of the two will contain only costumes. Most of the items obtainable from the Arks Scratchs can be sold in player shops. According to the blog, the gatcha is a way to keep item prices down as selling individual costumes would "cost more than we think." Gatchas, for those who don't know, are like those gumball machines you see at the entrances and exits of supermarkets. You put your money in and something comes out at random.


Oh my god, like something straight from one of those shitty korean MMOs. Spend money, have a CHANCE to get something you want, which unfortunately ALSO includes a chance to get something you already have, triple points if its in a color you dont want. That isn't a way to keep costume prices down, if anything it's a technique to ensure we'll have to keep returning to the stupid thing anytime something new is released. ffffffffffffffffffffffffff






As for cheaters, bots, gold sellers, and other nasty types, the blog says that because some of the communication abilities are locked to players who don't purchase system related items, they'll be able to keep a handle on the situation. And of course, bans and stuff will be handed out as needed.



Man, look, whatever. I'd take all those people over having to PAY to trade items with players on a Phantasy Star MMO. Jesus christ. Sour taste evolves to bleeding gums. This game is starting to look far less attractive to me. They need to announce that everything is on a 30-day basis and generally boils down to no less than $12 a month for full PSU functionality.



And that PSO2 Poster...call me a hipster, but the PSO EpI&II one looked a trillion times cooler. Not to say that one isnt neat though, but.....too much random lighting and shovelface.

[Arika]

PSO = "the more time u spend, the more win"
PSO2 = "the more money u spend, the more u win"
I always hears "time is money"

So... they end up the same~.

(Nah, just kidding. Actually you can choose to still spend more time to win too. Do you want to use money or use time? it is your choice! You can get to max level, you can get every top item and meseta on normal way. For the shop thing, you can think of its as monthly payment that doesn't force you to.)

[•Col•]

Whoa whoa, sorry if liking the way a weapon looks over the electronic numbers on it makes all of my characters mary sues. D<

I didn't say anything about the stats of a weapon. o.O I choose the looks of a weapon over the stats as well. What I meant was that, many people used the same type of rare weapons because they were better/cooler looking... This never really happened in PSO, mostly because it was impossible. Not like there could be hundreds of players running around with Sealed J-Swords and such.

If you actually got one of these rarer type of weapons, you felt pretty cool.. While as in PSU, you could just go to the player shops and buy anything for pretty cheap(which should be even worse in PSO2 now, unfortunately).

It's the same way with your costume in PSU. It just makes you feel less unique cuz EVERYONE has your clothes/weapons.

[NoiseHERO]

Still feeling like, they should just make a premium version of the game. ]:

Hopefully we CAN open shop/expand our classes for free though.

edit:

Also from ric's blog:

His translation there makes the player shop sound less like the apocalypse.

http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/cash-items.jpg

Also with afro's in I can finally make my OC... kinda...

http://noisehero.deviantart.com/art/Laser-Yo-Yo-s-291882315

[GCoffee]

OR it could be over $30 a month to have these system options.

Look, I can pull imaginary prices out of thin air too! =D

I would rather have you do that than to bitch pointlessly. I was merely pointing out the direction I see this cash system taking.

[kyuuketsuki]

In the bumped.org blog the room/shop and trading parts were translated to:
Extended functionality in regards to setting up My Room/My Shop, and Item Trade services.
If the translation is accurate, I wonder if those features are available to players who don't use the cash shop, but with limitations.
Seems like everybody missed this.

Anyways, until we know the actual prices and which particular things will be timed (and what sort of time-frame it will be, although monthly would be a safe bet), it's a little soon to start freaking out, I think.

Also, I'm not sure about the gatchas. I'm cool with the idea as long as you can't get duplicates and there aren't 1000 color variations of the same thing. Otherwise, there's nothing worse than spending *real money* and getting a bunch of the same shit you already have.

[Kion]

I dont think so. "マイルームやマイショップの開設" keyword: 開設 (to open). I think they're setting it up like the PSU free vs. premium. If it's a onetime payment then you might as well think of it as a $20 game.

I'm not too surprised by what i'm seeing. I was planning on spending 15$ a month, so rather than paying for the ability to play, being able to sink some money in to get something extra seems like a better model to me.

The multi-skill tree option seems pretty awesome if it means what i think it means; being able to multi-class a character rather than having to take the time raise a second character. That seems like it's pretty worth it.

What I'm more worried about is how they plan on selling ARK cash. In japan they sell nexon cash and stuff at convenience stores. I guess credit card for everyone else?

[•Col•]

I would rather have you do that than to bitch pointlessly. I was merely pointing out the direction I see this cash system taking.

Just trying to get people to realize that life isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

Don't want TOO many players freaking out if they botch this cash shop system up.

[Kion]

倉庫やスキルツリーの拡張(追記：有料スキルがあるのではなく、新たなスキルツリーを持てる形になります。 )、マイルームやマイショップの開設、アイテムトレードなどの拡張機能などがこれに当たります。

Expansion of skills and storage (note: skills will not be sold, only the ability to have a new skill tree), opening of room and shop, added abilities to the item trader and things of that nature.

[NoiseHERO]

So yeah.

This game has afros now.

[Golto]

You guys shouldn't be too concerned about exp boosters as the stats per lvl for pso2 is a lot less than psu.

[LeynasMoon]

"There will also be two gatchas called "Arks Scratch." They differ by cost to use them. The cheaper of the two scratchs will contain will contain various cash shop items including costumes. The more expensive of the two will contain only costumes. Most of the items obtainable from the Arks Scratchs can be sold in player shops. According to the blog, the gatcha is a way to keep item prices down as selling individual costumes would "cost more than we think." Gatchas, for those who don't know, are like those gumball machines you see at the entrances and exits of supermarkets. You put your money in and something comes out at random."

So like PSU jp then.
F*CK THIS.

So if you end up not getting the costume that you were hoping for, we would have to sell or trade them with other players in order to get the one we want. Hello market inflation?
How could selling individual costumes cost more than they think, when trying to get the one you really want is going to be highly improbable on every attempt you're going to make, meaning spend more money on more chances?
It translates, to me, as "we're gonna milk you for all you've got, you visual swag suckers!"
It's just my opinion, but I think this royally sucks.

[Ark22]

Wrong.

"Hey, you know that rare you spent 3 weeks trying to get? Oh well yeah, people that bought the drop booster got several of them in just a few hours. It's actually only worth like 100 meseta in the player shops now."

You must be play it wrong. Last time I remember rares aren't even much. Plus I don't even bother to sell rares or even care what people think of the rare. In PSO I used the Duradal because I thought it was beast and it took me awhile to get. I play for fun, not social gain of saying 'CHECK DI SHIT OUT! I GOT THE RAREST WEAPON IN FOREST!"

There are those who pay to win and there are those who just play to play. it isn't an MMO, it's instances, so it really doesn't effect me. I won't really see them anyways.

[SuperChoco]

You know, after thinking about it, I'm really glad Scape Dolls require money to buy. One of the big(ger) problems of PSU was that Scape Dolls were purchasable via in game currency. Now, the elitist thinking of max-scapes-or-boot will only last the first week or so.

[NoiseHERO]

No running rare instances without scapes!

But yeah who are we all kidding, we'd play this game even if it was PSU HD Remix.

[Zyrusticae]

PSO 2, confirmed for pay to win. And this is only the start. You can bet your ass it will keep getting worse over time.

LOL, okay, so any sort of convenience means pay to win?

Whatever, man. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.


For everyone else: Pay-to-win is ONLY pay-to-win when people can purchase obvious advantages that cannot be attained by regular players with enough time and effort. Drop boosts, XP boosts are not in that category - they just speed things up for the impatient/time-poor but money-rich (yes, these players exist too, believe it or not).

The scape dolls, on the other hand, ARE pay-to-win... but I don't give a shit, because they're consumables and if you're relying on them to win you're a terrible player anyways. GET OVER YOURSELF.

[Anon_Fire]

PSO 2, confirmed for pay to win. And this is only the start. You can bet your ass it will keep getting worse over time.

I could boast to the naysayers and tell them "I told you so", but I really wish I wasn't right about this. Anyway, it doesn't matter to me anymore. If this is how the game is gonna be, I refuse to play it.

The entire MMO genre is ruined now because people support this bullshit business model. What a fucking shame. Well, maybe it's just ruined for me, because most players actually prefer paying more for less. I just don't get it.

You guys can have fun playing a "game" completely designed around getting as much real money out of you as possible. I'm pretty much completely fed up with modern gaming in general, at this point.

Come join us in the Closed Beta then. You can submit your complaint.

[Reia]

PSO = "the more time u spend, the more win"
PSO2 = "the more money u spend, the more u win"
I always hears "time is money"

So... they end up the same~.

(Nah, just kidding. Actually you can choose to still spend more time to win too. Do you want to use money or use time? it is your choice! You can get to max level, you can get every top item and meseta on normal way. For the shop thing, you can think of its as monthly payment that doesn't force you to.)

And even out in WoW, Blade n Soul and other popular games that the play2win is more emphatized they still tell you the most important thing about it, TO HAVE FUN! Don't go bloatful and arguing everywhere or think because you can't be the best this game will suck. Sometimes is about making friends and playing with them can be less monotonous than trying to be the biggest peacock/mary sue in this game. And this comes to everyone from someone who learned this "the hard way" and finally realize when you stop being a teenager.

[Setsuna00G]

Well the news on cash items does not mean anything as of now, because there is not enough info. Also to all people who think this game is not going to be pay-to-win, you obviously don't play a lot of f2p MMOs. MMOs designed for f2p are for casual gamers who just play for fun and do not care if the game is cash shop dependent, so for those that are looking for a pure hardcore MMORPG experience, you are going to be pretty disappointed. The original PSO was a hardcore game and very innovative, unlike PSU which was more of a casual game. PSO2 seems to be a blend of both, trying to please its hardcore fans and bring in new gamers to the franchise, but PSO2 is more so on the casual side because that is where the money is. I do understand where SEGA is coming from with this move, but I would prefer a b2p method, with a free trial from lvl 1-15 or whatever.

Oh well, I will be just playing this game just for fun, while I get all my hardcore needs from TERA.

[Demon-]

Yeah I'm fine with this so far since there is no subscription fee. I will be buying the system pack and maybe a few nice outfits that come out.

[Merumeru]

XP well, this update seems kinda predictable for f2p; I don't mind paying for a perm cash shop outfit if I really like it or some beauty shop options if something looks nice enough, hell, even a bigger bag/storage/whatever if its needed, since $20 here and there is going to be much better than $50+$10-15/mo

I've never like gachas though, i hate gambling more than anything, but the people who do gamble for those rare items are pretty much supporting the game, so I don't mind if someone else has a paycheck to throw away XD it just won't be me

XP and exp/drop items and whatnot suck, but like Arika says, not everyone has time to grind like some of us, doesn't mean they're not allowed to try to keep up with their friends or to get to endgame, because if you're playing games like this to be the best of the best as fast as possible, well, the options to do so are available XD

[redroses]

I really don't see any problem with the cash shop items as of yet.
First of all, we do not know the costs yet and IF for example the systems cash items will really have a time limit when the game finally comes out (or if all of them will etc.). It could also be that after the game releases and enough people complain they might change time limits or costs. I am pretty sure, this is also a reason why they are bringing AC in the beta, to see how people feel about the prices and such.

Anyway, I think the cash shop is fine if the game is free 2 play. I was already expecting that PSO2 would have a fee.
But like this I can choose if I want to spend 10$, when I want to spend them and on what I want to spend them. And I don't have to go back and forth between cancelling and resubscribing if I don't play for a while.

I always thought it's great to be able to buy exp boosters, because sometimes you just don't get to play that much, or maybe miss an event or if you are like me, and have 25million characters and want them all leveled, lol. But with boosters it's easy to catch back up or level characters if you don't have much time to play everyday.

Also, about the drop boosters. They really don't work as good as some people here think. They do indeed bost drops, but they boost the drop rate of meseta or mats aswell. So it can be that you have five boosters running and get nothing, but do one run without a booster and find three rares. Because what it comes down to is that everything is still random.

And scape dolls are fine aswell as cash shop items.
You are able to buy moon atomizers, so why not play with people and use them!

[Spellbinder]

Setsuna, could you explain to me how PSO was a hardcore game?

[Griffin]

We are paying to win in a game that virtually has no PvP. Seems logical to me!

In all seriousness, how does one player's method in progressing a game effect YOU? I believe it is up to the player to decide how they wish to enjoy the game. Not all gamers are the same.

[NoiseHERO]

This really isn't the kind of game that takes two years to reach level 200 anyway. unless there's a level cap. e_e

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LWpWBDm9pBI

Also this boss looks fun.

And whoa just got ninja posted 4 times.

[Setsuna00G]

Setsuna, could you explain to me how PSO was a hardcore game?

Lol are you serious ? you could not even mash attacks in that game.

[redroses]

In all seriousness, how does one player's method in progressing a game effect YOU? I believe it is up to the player to decide how they wish to enjoy the game. Not all gamers are the same.

I think this is very true.

Because really, what should it bother other people if my characters level faster so that >I< can enjoy the game more.

I think more people should see it from this point of view, not how it will hurt you, because potato, but how it will matter to the players that use the cash shop and how it will make the game more fun for them, which includes you.

[Reia]

Oh well, I will be just playing this game just for fun, while I get all my hardcore needs from TERA.

^Actually what Im doing!


This really isn't the kind of game that takes two years to reach level 200 anyway. unless there's a level cap. e_e

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LWpWBDm9pBI

Also this boss looks fun.

And whoa just got ninja posted 4 times.

A Spider boss! How come we never got a spider boss before? And im not talking about the 4 Legged UFO, Reol Badia from PSPo2! Also that stage seems to have "mines" vibes. And you spouted why I never found a big deal of being high level in PSU, since MAG it changed the point of view of working for leveling up to, wait for an exp boosted event and level up to cap in less than a week, and this tendece got even during the PSPo2/i games. And even if I didn't want to level up "that fast" I couldn't let myself skip those amazing event items ;_;

[Ark22]

PSO on ult, soloing was pretty hard. Even with a group when you are all starting on ult, pretty f-in hard.

[Vashyron]

Lol are you serious ? you could not even mash attacks in that game.

Oh wow, so are you telling me doing the simple hugely lenient 1 - 2 - 3 button combo for everything made it "Hardcore" compared to PSU?

You know PSU reintroduced that in AOTI a way that was still easy, but compared to PSO's it was harder.

[Reia]

Oh wow, so are you telling me doing the simple hugely lenient 1 - 2 - 3 button combo for everything made it "Hardcore" compared to PSU?

You know PSU reintroduced that in AOTI a way that was still easy, but compared to PSO's it was harder.

And was not a condition but a bonus, making every hit becomes a critical hit! Making Hunters OP until their Nerf 3 years later.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

I don't really care about the consumables or efficiency items. Whether or not I will like the avatar item system will depend on our non-cash options, what is available in the cash shop, how much the outfits cost, and the permanence of said items (as in whether the items last for X number of days or permanently.) The system-related items will be subject to a similar rule set: our options without buying them, their price, and their permanence.

How long did PSU's Guardians Cash outfits last? Maybe that could give us an idea of whether the cash shop will use the "available for X days" system.

[NoiseHERO]

I think outfits would be permanent.

How long they stay in a shop is another story. (Lot of games won't sell a slutty santa outfit year-long)

[Mag-X]

Common sense says that outfits will be permanent and exp/drop rate boots will be timed.

The stuff about rooms and shops I would think would be timed by one month periods and work suspiciously like a monthly fee. Hopefully, they're just a one time fee though.

[Setsuna00G]

Oh wow, so are you telling me doing the simple hugely lenient 1 - 2 - 3 button combo for everything made it "Hardcore" compared to PSU?

You know PSU reintroduced that in AOTI a way that was still easy, but compared to PSO's it was harder.

No, I was just using that as an example and please do not mention PSU's free bonus damage system. Lol, that was below casual.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

Common sense says that outfits will be permanent and exp/drop rate boots will be timed.

The stuff about rooms and shops I would think would be timed by one month periods and work suspiciously like a monthly fee. Hopefully, they're just a one time fee though. If the outfits are modestly priced... Sounds good to me.

That latter part sounds like it could be a pain if it requires multiple payments to maintain. I liked my room in PSU... and my shop. I miss my storm force wind-blowing fan already.

[Zorafim]

Free to play? Free to download? I can get my friends to all play this game with me and not have to worry about convincing them to shell out the cash? This sounds like a win to me. Having a time limit to items is kind of annoying, but that just means I'll avoid buying those items. But buying the permanent items are alright by me. After all, the way I see it, I've got $50 to spend when I first get the game, and $10 a month after that. Considering how much of a minimalist I am, I think I can keep that budget.

There is one thing I need to mention, though. In my life, I've only ever bought one cash shop item. It was basically free, and it was a really neat looking item. But once I got it, I didn't enjoy having it. It felt cheap. Knowing this, even if awesome items are available for purchase, I'll probably just stick with hunting items instead of buying them, even if the bought ones look better. It feels much better to get an item honestly than to buy it. That being said, on to the main post!

I'm loving the fact that consumable items which destroyed PSU are coming back as purchasable items. I hated how I could just absorb damage in PSU, and shrug it off with a trimate as I was spamming my current OP PA. And if I get hit by a 1hit kill attack, I just shrug off 5k meseta and keep going. No matter, I have 9,995,000 left anyway.
This way, I have to keep on my A game through missions, since I don't have as many crutches to lean on. And people who need that crutch can still get them. I just get to make fun of them for needing them.

I like the ability to buy new skill trees with cash. For those who are confused and think this means this adds additional power to your character, it doesn't. It adds convenience. This is like WoW's dual spec, where you can quickly change from say, your tank spec to your healing spec. This sounds like it's going to be temporary, and that makes me sad if true. Being able to say "I feel like going dagger crazy today" and switch to a DpS spec seems like it'd be enjoyable. Or saying "This party already has a healing force. I'll go nuking" would also be nice.
At least, I'm 85% sure this is what it is. It could be something else. But considering several other games have this exact feature, I'd be surprised if it was.

I don't like the fact that we have to pay out of our pockets to open our room and shop, but if it's permanent, I can deal with it. If it's not, well... That'd be a shame. I love customizing my room in PSU, and having a shop was a nice way to get rid of those icky ranger rares. But after a while, I stopped using my shop anyway, so I probably won't miss it. The room though... I'd probably even shell out monthly if it came to it. I love organizing my room. god, I need to get my priorities strait. I haven't cleaned my room in months...

As for buying outfits and hairstyles, well, I expected that. In fact, that's the #1 thing I had in mind. I'm sure they'll have sillier stuff in this option than the general public would want. Stuff like rappy suits and bathing suits, vocaloid hair, all that silly stuff that PSU loved. I doubt we'll see neat upgrades to our current outfits in there.

Efficiency items... I don't like them. I don't like that they're in, and buyable. But I can deal with them. If I really need to stress out about how quickly I'm leveling, or how long an item is taking to drop, then I'm playing the game wrong. I'm basically paying to make the game shorter. I should enjoy playing a certain map, or setting my nose to the grindstone for a weekend grind.
So I won't buy them, but I'll respect people who do. I know you can get a rush out of leveling quickly, or want to grind out a weapon quickly. That's fine with me. And, I'm glad Sega is getting additional money to fund more features to the game. Just so long as they're being ethical about making that money.

Storage expansion sounds interesting. I always struggled with bag space in PSU. Having a feature to make that part of my life easier might be nice. Though I'd prefer if they just gave you a large amount of space and be done with it, I understand from a programming perspective that it's not feasible to give each person 1000 inventory slots.
If it's a permanent improvement, I'd buy it. If it's a stacking permanent improvement, I'll probably see exactly how much space I need. If it's temporary, I'll probably just try to practice my juggling act again.

Let's see, did I go over everything I wanted to? Um... Oh, right! What's an item trade? You mean those guys that trade photons and such for weapons? You gotta pay to pay for items? That's just silly. I'll stick with hunting mine.

Well. This post came out my longer than I hoped. And more self centered, too. It's a big reveal though. I guess it makes sense I'd go on an egocentric rant. I do need a tl;dr though. So, um...
tr;dr: I have a greater chance of getting my friends to play with me. I have the option for more convenience, as well as motivation to not use this convenience. Though there are many items I'll probably buy, I have a good budget for getting them. And if there are any items in the cash shop that look really neat, I'll probably avoid buying them just because it doesn't feel as good to use those when I can hunt items myself.
General reaction: Positive.

[Randomness]

Common sense says that outfits will be permanent and exp/drop rate boots will be timed.

The stuff about rooms and shops I would think would be timed by one month periods and work suspiciously like a monthly fee. Hopefully, they're just a one time fee though.

If they stick to more or less this, it's not a huge problem... but it would be annoying to have outfits not available through other means.

[Dinosaur]

I have to say that the level 20 cap for the CBT is really lame...

[Reia]

Considering Zorafim mentioned. I think my other 3 mules will also be HUmarls with the same look and name, in case of update that buff/nerf a hunter skill, I can always pass gear to the alt and start all over, being better geared can help me level up faster.


I have to say that the level 20 cap for the CBT is really lame...

Why so? Because we're testing the game early phase and giving away complaints about game function and balance and reporting bugs? rather than suffer from this abrupt changes when the game goes live and you already have a preset stuff and then suddenly? NERF! I hope you can still reset the skill tree with Meseta, WoW had it for gold for the very good reason skills constantly get Buffed/Nerfed (And this happenned a lot with Hunters in PSU!) all the time forcing people to re-stat. This is a nice complain that if there's a skilled in Japanese could write off to SEGA if can.

[NoiseHERO]

No, I was just using that as an example and please do not mention PSU's free bonus damage system. Lol, that was below casual.

Whats this?

Time to beat the PSU vs PSO dead horse again?!

OKAY!

NEITHER OF THE GAMES WERE HARDCORE /end that off topic discussion D<

[Caerik]

As a player of Nexon America games, this news...disturbs me.

I'll be fine if it will be reasonable prices for certain privileges. If you add all the time-restricted things up that you would buy, and break them down over the time period it would be an essential subscription fee. I planned on dishing out at least $10 a month at this game, so I don't see much deviation from the plan in the long run. The free to play option may keep this game alive longer too.

[Primobol]

We are paying to win in a game that virtually has no PvP. Seems logical to me!

In all seriousness, how does one player's method in progressing a game effect YOU? I believe it is up to the player to decide how they wish to enjoy the game. Not all gamers are the same.
Well, once I played this pretty dumb game for a while. It was before I get this desktop and the option to play real PC games. The name is Grand Chase.
Yes, the game has PvP, but that's beside the point (I still could beat those noob cashers). The PvE of the game was screwed (and getting worse with every passing day) because of the OP items. The problem is that ocasionally you will party up with random people. I personally like that. But if you have a big part of the community with screwed up (OP) characters because of the cash shop, you have no option but playing alone.


Also most asian games tend to sell you your beloved scape dolls. Give you one free resurrection a day, even for their "monster hunter" like game.
I was expecting someone to touch this point when I posted about the scape dolls.
So IF we assume the game is balanced without the use of Scape Dolls, I'm completely fine with it. It will be an item for those who like the "God Mode" cheats and I hope SEGA can make a LOT of money with them. BUT back in the PSO days, it was pretty hard to survive in some parts without that "second wind". I think that's because the evasion options were pretty limited (run and... run). But also there were several 1shot situations. Falz was a pure 1shot attacks boss.

[Vashyron]

No, I was just using that as an example and please do not mention PSU's free bonus damage system. Lol, that was below casual.

Then that's a nice argument you got going there.

You've clearly convinced everyone PSO's 1 - 2 - 3 system was then clearly very Hardcore. All Hail it.

[Setsuna00G]

Whats this?

Time to beat the PSU vs PSO dead horse again?!

OKAY!

NEITHER OF THE GAMES WERE HARDCORE /end that off topic discussion D<

No, just giving my opinion. I played both games and enjoyed both games.

[amtalx]

How many hundreds of dollars did I pay in subscription fees for PSU? As long as PSO2 costs less, I'm cool.

[Cayenne]

PSO2 is starting to have that whole 'business' image to it.

I'm with you Mike, big turn off for me as well and I was on board with SEGA 100%.

[Zorafim]

Considering Zorafim mentioned. I think my other 3 mules will also be HUmarls with the same look and name, in case of update that buff/nerf a hunter skill, I can always pass gear to the alt and start all over, being better geared can help me level up faster.

I'm confused. Why would you need to do this? I was under the impression that skill trees would be resettable at some convenience cost so that if a skill was nerfed, you could just reset your skills and find something else you like. I don't see any reason you'd need to level a new character, unless they somehow introduce a feature which makes it possible to make a permanent mistake.


NEITHER OF THE GAMES WERE HARDCORE /end that off topic discussion D<

Yes, um, this. Hardcore games require a huge time investment. Neither PSO nor PSU did. You could play an hour a week if you wanted to, or take month long breaks, and it wouldn't have an impact. If you tried this in any hardcore game, you'd be booted from your guild and replaced. If you even miss group meetings regularly, you wouldn't be invited anymore. And this is if you're even lucky enough to find a group which has your schedule. Hardcore games require you to plan around them. Online Phantasy Stars don't. They might not be as casual as console games, but they're still fairly casual games.
How did this even come up? What does this have to do with cash shops?

[Spellbinder]

Play to win in a game where you don't win is apparently serious business.

[Mitz]

Play to win in a game where you don't win is apparently serious business.

Holy crap, Batman?

And it has to do with the competitive spirit. I myself will use the cash shop for any xp boost I can get my hands on to get the most advantage in my mission to be the first to reach the level cap. I myself like making things more challenging so I guess it is serious business.

[Reia]

Holy crap, Batman?

And it has to do with the competitive spirit. I myself will use the cash shop for any xp boost I can get my hands on to get the most advantage in my mission to be the first to reach the level cap. I myself like making things more challenging so I guess it is serious business.

I hope you can have the endurance to stay like that all the time, most people who rush their level are the most likely to quit first :3 I just warn that you are aware of what that means.

[Spellbinder]

I hope you can have the endurance to stay like that all the time, most people who rush their level are the most likely to quit first :3 I just warn that you are aware of what that means.

Maybe there's a competition to see who burns out first we don't know about.

[Vashyron]

Will you also win if you reach the cap or obtain x item first?

Not sure how anyone could feel any sort of competitive spirit in here when you can buy it / heighten your chances. Besides the game it self not being competitive at all. Of course I know people like to make competition out of anything.

[Reia]

Maybe there's a competition to see who burns out first we don't know about.

Sometimes a turtle can make a longer road than a rabbit even if it's in a slower phase, I seen a ton of casual players in PSO and PSU that reached probably to very intense strenght of avatars like the speedrunners, but they were casuals, did know how to play good but at same time cared more for their real life, you can't say they "quit oftenly" but they leave it on hiatus too many times like I do with some MMOs now a days. The other side thinks they can go elitist, then notice the endgame competing of speedruns aint as easy and fair as it seems and quit, even after spending big amounts of time and sometimes money to be in it. Sometimes the thing sacrificed can not be only monetary but also in value of time, like time to spend with family, friends, job or study, and most of this cases pushes them into the line of regret or simply get bored of doing the same things everyday 7/365 and permanently quit the game. So they last shorter than most casuals that have aim to playing this for a long run.

[Mitz]

I hope you can have the endurance to stay like that all the time, most people who rush their level are the most likely to quit first :3 I just warn that you are aware of what that means.

Fully depends on what SEGA'S intents to deliver as far as endgame content goes. If there isn't any, I hope the social aspect will keep me attached to the game.

[Reia]

Fully depends on what SEGA'S intents to deliver as far as endgame content goes.

We're expecting SEGA go for the F2P model, giving us a starting low amount of content with low level cap at day 1 and prolly give us 1 week clear of content every 1 or 2 months and a 3 month lapse to increase the LV cap by 10 till we gradually reach 200, I think that's more friendly for the casual player than the guy who rush. Probably CBT will reach to LV20 max, then LV40 for OBT and LV50 when it goes Live. Just a hypothesis considering how most JP companies release their PvE games in the F2P schematic. So we will start off with barely 25% of the content they totally planned.

Under that situation I see PSO2 as a casual friendly game you can play up till clear, and play your other games until everytime SEGA announce a content update and you wont need to be tied up to play everyday because "you paid up a monthly fee".

[Ark22]

PSO was fun for the random people joining and teaming up then going out on missions then going back to the lobby with our photon chairs.

[Mitz]

I sense something like would be more probable to their biggest customer base: the casual gamers. But between content patches there should be something to keep the players interested at max level. I just hope it's more than the regular old grindfest.

[Setsuna00G]

Yes, um, this. Hardcore games require a huge time investment. Neither PSO nor PSU did. You could play an hour a week if you wanted to, or take month long breaks, and it wouldn't have an impact. If you tried this in any hardcore game, you'd be booted from your guild and replaced. If you even miss group meetings regularly, you wouldn't be invited anymore. And this is if you're even lucky enough to find a group which has your schedule. Hardcore games require you to plan around them. Online Phantasy Stars don't. They might not be as casual as console games, but they're still fairly casual games.How did this even come up? What does this have to do with cash shops?

Lol, what?

To clarify more on what I meant by PSO being a hardcore MMO for those that did not understand in the post that I originally mentioned it in. PSU obviously has dumb downed PSO mechanics because those mechanics were too complex for casual gamers, if you do not want call PSO a hardcore game, i don't care, but there is no denying that the game is harder than most MMOs to date. What does it has to do with the topic? nothing which is why I did not go into detail in post I mentioned it in.

On topic: My point was Since PSO, SEGA has been trying to make the franchise geared towards casual gamers and that I can understand why SEGA would want to bring in more casual players to the franchise with the f2p model. However the bottom line is hardcore gamers want to grind, they want the effort they put in the game to mean something, which is not the case in f2p games because they have to affect game play to get your money because otherwise you would buy nothing from the cash shop. So i can understand the turnoff for some people.

[Spellbinder]

You keep saying PSO was hard core but I still see no evidence or explanation to back up that statement. PSO was about as hard core as chewing bubble gum and walking at the same time.

[Reia]

I sense something like would be more probable to their biggest customer base: the casual gamers. But between content patches there should be something to keep the players interested at max level. I just hope it's more than the regular old grindfest.

Mostly are the events, like Rates increased, or scenario determinated events. Or Event unique contents. So people dont wanna miss it just because they are low level, staying high level grants you open doors to try any event by picking its difficulty.


Lol, what?

To clarify more on what I meant by PSO being a hardcore MMO for those that did not understand in the post that I originally mentioned it in. PSU obviously has dumb downed PSO mechanics because those mechanics were too complex for casual gamers, if you do not want call PSO a hardcore game, i don't care, but there is no denying that the game is harder than most MMOs to date. What does it has to do with the topic? nothing which is why I did not go into detail in post I mentioned it in.

On topic: My point was Since PSO, SEGA has been trying to make the franchise geared towards casual gamers and that I can understand why SEGA would want to bring in more casual players to the franchise with the f2p model. However the bottom line is hardcore gamers want to grind, they want the effort they put in the game to mean something, which is not the case in f2p games because they have to affect game play to get your money because otherwise you would buy nothing from the cash shop. So i can understand the turnoff for some people.

PSO got a determiningly harder start up and more intense boss fights than PSU in comparison but! It still has the same lack of challenge as PSU does. It gets hard for the first time play in an account but once you reach to get the goodies it aint, or you forgot how easy is to make the whole game starting with a LV200 Mag?

[Cayenne]

Pay to Heal.

[Griffin]

Pay to Heal.

There we go.

[Remius]

Mostly are the events, like Rates increased, or scenario determinated events. Or Event unique contents. So people dont wanna miss it just because they are low level, staying high level grants you open doors to try any event by picking its difficulty.



PSO got a determiningly harder start up and more intense boss fights than PSU in comparison but! It still has the same lack of challenge as PSU does. It gets hard for the first time play in an account but once you reach to get the goodies it aint, or you forgot how easy is to make the whole game starting with a LV200 Mag?

Lv200 mag really does nothing for the difficulty of PSO. If you feed them on pretty lax intervals, you should easily have one before you reach ultimate mode, where they're pretty much expected. But it did serve to make an alternate 80 levels much more interesting than doing it from scratch.


PSO wasn't harder than PSU, it was just more limited. One weapon type was used for one situation. In PSU, one weapon type used for single targets could easily clear a room. In all, the difficulty wasn't much different. In PSO you died if you got surrounded by the wrong enemy. In PSU you died if you got hit with foie or got put to sleep/frozen.

[Setsuna00G]

You keep saying PSO was hard core but I still see no evidence or explanation to back up that statement. PSO was about as hard core as chewing bubble gum and walking at the same time.

Lol, that would be off topic. if you disagree then you disagree.

@Fenrya

No I did not forget about that and the point of my post was not to emphasize on how difficult PSO was.

[Mike]

I dont think so. "マイルームやマイショップの開設" keyword: 開設 (to open). I think they're setting it up like the PSU free vs. premium. If it's a onetime payment then you might as well think of it as a $20 game.
Something tells me that there will be a recurring fee in order to use these and you'll be essentially paying a subscription to use them. A one time, account wide unlock fee would be nice though.

[Reia]

Something tells me that there will be a recurring fee in order to use these and you'll be essentially paying a subscription to use them. A one time, account wide unlock fee would be nice though.

If they do I hope the recurring payment method includes a 10% discount for a 1 year lapse deal. Can get you penalized if you stop playing thought.

[ShadowDragon28]

Excellent post Zorafim. Pretty much concur on everything you wrote man.

As to the whole "competition" over whom gets the best "rares"/max levels/max grinds/etc I really dont give a shit about that crap.

Just give me interesting quests and lots of well-designed in-game areas , and ON-TIME Events that's all I want. Oh and a fucking jett black Humar Suit with dark grey trim. That's all.

[Xaeris]

Eee...I was fine with the cash shop announcement, but I was really hoping they wouldn't do the gatcha thing again. I'm fine with paying a set amount for something I want from a cash shop, but spending an indefinite amount of money through an unsatisfying gambling minigame does not jive with me.

[Reia]

Eee...I was fine with the cash shop announcement, but I was really hoping they wouldn't do the gatcha thing again. I'm fine with paying a set amount for something I want from a cash shop, but spending an indefinite amount of money through an unsatisfying gambling minigame does not jive with me.

I still think the Gatcha outfits are tradeable at the moment. Not cheap for sure!

[GreenArcher]

ITT:

Before: I hope PSO2 is pay to play so I can pay SEGA! ^_^

*Free to play with cash shop*

After: WHAT I MIGHT HAVE TO PAY SOME MONEY THIS GAME SUCKS

...

But anyway. Assuming scape dolls in Cash Shop means no scape doll drops in game, YES! Refer fishy man's post. Scape dolls were cool in PSU for the first few months when 5000 meseta was the most money you'd ever seen, but it was silly when your inventory always had 10 of them.

[Miyoko]

They should just make Scape dolls like car insurance. The more you crash, the more expensive it gets :O

In other news, fuck you Sega and your stupid gatcha bullshit for new clothes. God I mad.

[Griffin]

I am not fond of the gatcha gamble, but I try to look on the bright side. It makes outfits more rare and valuable.

[Angelo]

I just figure if I get an outfit I don't want I can just sell it and then go buy the one I want in someone else's shop.

[•Col•]

But anyway. Assuming scape dolls in Cash Shop means no scape doll drops in game, YES! Refer fishy man's post. Scape dolls were cool in PSU for the first few months when 5000 meseta was the most money you'd ever seen, but it was silly when your inventory always had 10 of them.

OR they could have done the NOT dumb thing and only let you carry 1 scape doll per mission, like in PSP2. >_>

Not like I care much about the scape dolls anyway, though. Hardly ever need them when you're partying with decent people. :/ Especially since PSO2 is pretty easy...


I just figure if I get an outfit I don't want I can just sell it and then go buy the one I want in someone else's shop.

The thing that sucks about the gatcha system... You could get something that's worth crap. D: So you couldn't really sell it to get the thing you want most times.

[NoiseHERO]

I just figure if I get an outfit I don't want I can just sell it and then go buy the one I want in someone else's shop.

That's kind of the idea... In terms of them making it "cheaper" for other players.

Compared to just buying the one you want straight away, and not bothering to get more to sell them.

Kinda reminds me of that BS bush made up, to make rich people richer, to give us more jobs.

It's not gonna be perfect, especially for the people spending the REAL money.

[Cayenne]

$20 per account, $5 for more char slots, cash shop for looks. Simple with nothing 'locked'.

This would of worked just fine but instead we get this swiss cheese of a f2p plan.

[Rizen]

OR they could have done the NOT dumb thing and only let you carry 1 scape doll per mission, like in PSP2. >_>

Not like I care much about the scape dolls anyway, though. Hardly ever need them when you're partying with decent people. :/ Especially since PSO2 is pretty easy...
HEY! My early Protranser life DEPENDED on those 10 Scape Dolls! Don't hate!

[Reia]

HEY! My early Protranser life DEPENDED on those 10 Scape Dolls! Don't hate!

Haha, how come? Not enough traps?

[NoiseHERO]

Haha, how come? Not enough traps?

This

You're wasting pro transer if you're not usin' the traps.

I remember greatly respecting people that made that class work before it got all S ranks, and having fun with it myself.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

As someone who been playing ffxi for past couple of years....I welcome this.... I'm not gonna be a huge downer on the storage and shop option until we know more about it.....

Over time ffxi seem like it to be a chore... yes I do like that there was alot you can do "Story" wise but alot of times it turn out to be "if you're not up to X part of something you can't come"
Not to mention the monthly fee sort of obligates you play on the regular otherwise you'd waste money...

Not to mention the occasional elitist where the second you do something wrong you're out.


PSU/PSO was more subtle....it was so simple yet was fun at the same time. and you didn't need to be on EVERDAY to accomplish something there wasn't much rushing when it came to leveling....honestly the only time i was concerned about "Being" at a certain level was when it involved friends and even they was casual about it....


As for the scape doll being cash shop only.

I actually in a way welcome that. It would form more of a "team work" effort....of course that only qualifies if people kept up with having moon atomizers...

[GreenArcher]

OR they could have done the NOT dumb thing and only let you carry 1 scape doll per mission, like in PSP2. >_>



The game is free to play and free to download. The cash shop does need to make money, you know.

[•Col•]

The game is free to play and free to download. The cash shop does need to make money, you know.

Yeah, but you were implying that having scape dolls be purchasable with cash was the best/only way to solve the problem.

I'm honestly going to be disappointed if a large number of people actually buy the scape dolls... I can understand just about everything else on the list... But scape dolls... Really? They automatically get used if you die, and there are other ways to be revived...

If a person buys a bunch of them, they must really need them.... D:

[SilverFoxR]

Guys... it didn't specificly say that Scape Dolls won't be available outside of the Cash Shop... it just said that it'll be one of the items available to purchase. Perhaps Scape Dolls will drop, but they'll be relatively rare. This CS Scape Doll is basicly if you want one and ran out of your own stockpile. Other consumables will also be purchasable through CS, but it doesn't necissarily mean they're exclusive to the shop. Besides, it appears as if the majority of CS items will be tradable through shops for those who don't want to use real money.

This CS layout is pretty standard and trust me, it's not very damaging... especially seeing how PSO2 will run. You'll more often be joining up with parties or soloing through areas. You're not going to run across uninvited strangers and even if you do, the exp and item system gives everyone the reward for the kill... so nothing is lost there.

Honestly, the only thing that'll change is that CS-buying players will get temporary boosts and look different. Unless your "e-pen0r" is easily threattened by other people's, this really isn't an issue at all. Heck, most of these people you'll only really meet on online forums (like this one) or in online lobbies. Even then, they won't be completely out of your league or that you'll automaticly suck for not using the CS...

[Mike]

Guys... it didn't specificly say that Scape Dolls won't be available outside of the Cash Shop...
Yes it did. I'll have to edit the first post to make that clearer.

自分を蘇生させるスケープドールは、今回は有料アイテムとなりますが、

[Rizen]

Haha, how come? Not enough traps?


This

You're wasting pro transer if you're not usin' the traps.

I remember greatly respecting people that made that class work before it got all S ranks, and having fun with it myself.
I was Protranser when they first came out. This is before they got improvements, EX traps, and missions that actual gave good class experience. So if you are referring to the initial crowd of protransers, I was one of them who helped spread interest of the class.

[rezakon]

Free Download, No Subscription...

I think I can live with the lil balls of mystery, just better not make my avatar items timed or I'll scream murder.

[Mike]

If the translation is accurate, I wonder if those features are available to players who don't use the cash shop, but with limitations.
Not having a room from the start kind of means that the item given to participants in the closed beta would be kind of meaningless. The original isn't exactly clear though and can be taken either way.

[Reia]

I was Protranser when they first came out. This is before they got improvements, EX traps, and missions that actual gave good class experience. So if you are referring to the initial crowd of protransers, I was one of them who helped spread interest of the class.

Since he also mentioned Before the S-ranking of weapons he also meant before the EX traps came out. It was pretty cool to have a protranser in your team, there was this guy in the JP and EN server named AC9Breaker on my party everytime and he really did a great job with nothing more than simple and G traps.

[Cayenne]

We all better hope this game kicks so much ass that we forget about this imperfect cash system.

[Rizen]

AC9Breaker and I go waaaay back....I really need to catch up with him again.

Also, my curiosity is peaked...will players be able to sell all cash shop items? Or has that bit yet to be mentioned?

[rezakon]

AC9Breaker and I go waaaay back....I really need to catch up with him again.

Also, my curiosity is peaked...will players be able to sell all cash shop items? Or has that bit yet to be mentioned?

It says only certain items out of the balls can be sold, so I'd assume it's probably only cosmetics and maybe consumables.

[NoiseHERO]

They said the gacha will sell outfits and some random items (I guess the fodder stuff like super atomizers and scape dolls)

Then there's the gacha that'll ONLY be costumes but cost more.

I assume certain event costumes wouldn't be tradeable? @_@

[Mike]

I assume certain event costumes wouldn't be tradeable? @_@
Certain event items and costumes along with promo items probably wont be tradeable.

[•Col•]

I assume certain event costumes wouldn't be tradeable? @_@

They gotta make money somehow...

Unfortunately, the best way to do that is to wring the necks out of the people who care about cosmetics (aka me, you, most people on these forums)... D:

[NoiseHERO]

They gotta make money somehow...

Unfortunately, the best way to do that is to wring the necks out of the people who care about cosmetics (aka me, you, most people on these forums)... D:

If it's really hard to get something like a santa clause outfit or some kind of naruto promo jacket I wouldn't care.

But if there's anything the equivalent of a braves jacket running me 30 dollars worth of gambling, Otherwise I'm stuck with default outfits...

I'll cry.

[Griffin]

They gotta make money somehow...

Unfortunately, the best way to do that is to wring the necks out of the people who care about cosmetics (aka me, you, most people on these forums)... D:

I rather feel pain than nothing at all!

[str898mustang]

F2P? Well this fucking blows.....this is gonna be PSU hacking all over again but 10x worse.

[NoiseHERO]

F2P? Well this fucking blows.....this is gonna be PSU hacking all over again but 10x worse.

Wait wait, why are you pinning that on PSU?

Didn't PSO had 24-7 hacker gang banging? =___=

And yeah they said they would work hard to fight hackers. I can trust that on the JP server. The US-EU server though... We can only hope we're sharing a server. >3>;;

[Zorafim]

Weren't hackers non-existent by AotI? Sega's getting better. That's not saying much, but it's true.

[Vashyron]

By then most of the malicious ones with the intent to screw others directly or to show off seemingly dropped compared to the start.

Even now in JP you undeniably bet there are some of the "smarter" ones that keep to them selves.

[NoiseHERO]

Weren't hackers non-existent by AotI? Sega's getting better. That's not saying much, but it's true.

Early in the game a bunch of "hackers" abused to glitch to multiply money.

Otherwise most of them kept all of that stuff in secret to the point where they never even got banned, just quit on their own. Funny because they ALWAYS had the newest rares first and made everyone jealous.

Others, towards the end (around mag or something I don't remember) there was a script apocalypse, and rooms started to get bombed. (All the greedy dudes and random people selling stuff for 99 mil got bought out but didn't actually get paid or something.) But they all got banned kinda quick... But they mostly didn't care, which is why it happened.

I knew a few of em. /shrug

[rezakon]

Weren't hackers non-existent by AotI? Sega's getting better. That's not saying much, but it's true.
It was more to do with they got bored or tired then actual sega intervention... ^^;

Personally I don't want to see them go to FFXIV extremes were like nearly everything is server side related but they definitely need to employ some quality security experts like most the big companies are doing now to prevent issues or make a metrics system like guild wars used that could monitor abnormal statistics and then lay a scythe of death on your character (of coarse this system was worked around as well but the newbies and part time hackers got fully owned by the system will it worked).

[Remius]

I read about FFXIV's whole Serverside EVERYTHING problem. Funny stuff to have menu lag.


PSU's hacking was mostly under the radar. Sega needs to crack down on net security but they wont. To be completely honest with myself...although this game was an absolute blast to play, it still kind of feels like a budget title.


Only time sega goes balls-out on every aspect of a game is when it's a serious Sonic the Hedgehog entry.

[Shmulz]

In all seriousness, how does one player's method in progressing a game effect YOU? I believe it is up to the player to decide how they wish to enjoy the game. Not all gamers are the same.

I think this quote sums up many peoples arguments who are in favor of the f2p model and as far as my personal ideology for playing pso goes, I fully agree with this statement.

However, despite our PERSONAL play styles, boosted exp and drop rates for real cash are NOT fair to those who prefer a more competitive play style. While I personally do not find enjoyment in past pso games from a "competitive" standpoint, many others do. I think ultimately this hurts PSO 2 in the long run from a community (numbers)perspective as i have had many "competitive" type friends over the 10 year period I have enjoyed this series, and for them this will be a deal breaker. While this model may turn out to only effect the character progression in a minor way, I have seen the vast majority of f2p models fail because of essentially "pay to win" mentality in some players eyes. These games usually sacrifice either Longevity Or big communities and most times both.

While Pso being labeled a "competitive" game may seem ridiculous to you and I, for many the competitive nature of games makes them fun(or adds to the experience). So to refer to your original argument "up to players how they want to enjoy the game" this will not be possible for MANY people if it requires them to pay RL money to have the latest and greatest.

[maxx69]

First, the level cap on the closed beta has been lowered from the announced 30 to 20 to accomodate for balance changes.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU uuu

[Mike]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU uuu
Is this really such a problem? Your character will be wiped on the closed beta-open beta transition anyways.

[str898mustang]

Wait wait, why are you pinning that on PSU?

Didn't PSO had 24-7 hacker gang banging? =___=

And yeah they said they would work hard to fight hackers. I can trust that on the JP server. The US-EU server though... We can only hope we're sharing a server. >3>;;

US and JP better not share a server.

Yes I was referring to PSU and yes PSO was a hacker gangbang but these games were not F2P. F2P means even more trolls/hackers/cheap asses who will be on the game. Yeah JP PSU is free but the language barrier turns the people away but it being in english.....it's gonna be the 360 demo all over again but more hackers.


Fight hackers? lol yeah right.

[Anon_Fire]

US and JP better not share a server.

Yes I was referring to PSU and yes PSO was a hacker gangbang but these games were not F2P. F2P means even more trolls/hackers/cheap asses who will be on the game. Yeah JP PSU is free but the language barrier turns the people away but it being in english.....it's gonna be the 360 demo all over again but more hackers.


Fight hackers? lol yeah right.

The way you say that makes me dissapointed in you. :(

[Griffin]

Only time sega goes balls-out on every aspect of a game is when it's a serious Sonic the Hedgehog entry.

And even that's not saying much. I'm a big old fan of Sonic, but even Sonic Generations wasn't enough to slake.

[Angelo]

Sonic Generations was better than any of the Genesis games.

I put my rose-tinted shades on the table for that entry.

[Griffin]

I agree, but it was short and lacked replayability.

[Remius]

Sonic Generations was better than any of the Genesis games.

I put my rose-tinted shades on the table for that entry.

Hahahaha

No.


And even that's not saying much. I'm a big old fan of Sonic, but even Sonic Generations wasn't enough to slake.

Sonic Generations was about as budget as it gets for a Console Sonic game. It was more like an experiment. Everything about the game was a recreation of old content, they really didn't even have to try very hard. The modern stages were some of the best though. I never played Colors, but alot of people say colors was still much better of a game.


I'd say the last real big budget title would either be Sonic Unleashed or Sonic Colors. Unleashed got a shitload of publicity and advertising, as well as a huge amount of time put on graphics and music quality. Not only did they develop unleashed as a game, but they built both a graphics AND a physics engine for it during its development period.




Phantasy Star hasn't gotten that kind of treatment yet, really. If this was made by the OLD Sonic Team, im pretty sure PSO2 would resemble a Next-Gen title alot more than it currently does. But most of Phantasy Star's work seems to be gameplay related...which is okay i guess.

[str898mustang]

The way you say that makes me dissapointed in you. :(

Sorry but truth needs to be spoken

Yeah the hackers will die down several months later (hopefully) after the PSO2's release like always....some hackers will remain on the server though.

That's a hackers "high"....just to see if they can hack it and what hacks they can do.

Anon_Fire, you were on PC/PS2 when the hacking of PSU was there right?....PMs being reset, Meseta/item duping, people using unreleased weapons, Characters being hacked, Characters being controlled (meaning a hacker could type something and you would say it). Now add those hackers + the ones to lazy to get a job and they're still living with their parents.


Lets hope the JP and US servers are seperated.

[Anon_Fire]

Sorry but truth needs to be spoken

Yeah the hackers will die down several months later (hopefully) after the PSO2's release like always....some hackers will remain on the server though.

That's a hackers "high"....just to see if they can hack it and what hacks they can do.

Anon_Fire, you were on PC/PS2 when the hacking of PSU was there right?....PMs being reset, Meseta/item duping, people using unreleased weapons, Characters being hacked, Characters being controlled (meaning a hacker could type something and you would say it). Now add those hackers + the ones to lazy to get a job and they're still living with their parents.


Lets hope the JP and US servers are seperated.

Actually, I joined PSU when the Moatoob 1st GBR was going on. Around February 2008 when PSOBB was about to be shut down.

[str898mustang]

Actually, I joined PSU when the Moatoob 1st GBR was going on. Around February 2008 when PSOBB was about to be shut down.

ah ok, I didn't know.

20 bucks says Broomop and InfamousNugz make a return (two of the main hackers that ruined the game for a lot of people).

[Reia]

ah ok, I didn't know.

20 bucks says Broomop and InfamousNugz make a return (two of the main hackers that ruined the game for a lot of people).

InfamousNugz lost interest since AotI, but probably the O from PSO2 might call his attention back, and Broomop is a joke, he just steal japanese hacks and call it his own, expect Japanese hackers months before Broomop even dare to show his face.

[Anon_Fire]

InfamousNugz lost interest since AotI, but probably the O from PSO2 might call his attention back, and Broomop is a joke, he just steal japanese hacks and call it his own, expect Japanese hackers months before Broomop even dare to show his face.

I saw "Broomop" on Facebook. InfamousNugz, not familiar with.


SEGA will do everything in their power to keep those two out of the game for good.

[Macman]

SEGA will do everything in their power to keep those two out of the game for good.Hahahah.

[Reia]

^Okay that was funny. But there's way bigger chances they won't show up rather than SEGA "stopping them". Because they don't care at all for an immature acting adult.

[Vashyron]

Why are you guys even talking about these people specifically. Even if they don't care about the series anymore to return, your still gonna get other people doing "their job" if the game's security is crap.

Or you know the ones that don't "show off," but are in a corner somewhere spontaneously creating Meseta / Arks Cash.

[Mitz]

ah ok, I didn't know.

20 bucks says Broomop and InfamousNugz make a return (two of the main hackers that ruined the game for a lot of people).

I do hope so. They can stresstest SEGA's defenses.