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Mike
Mar 30, 2012, 05:21 AM
The official blog (http://ameblo.jp/sega-psblog/entry-11208163670.html) was updated tonight with stuff on the beta. A video was also released. It looks like the same video that was played during the second media briefing. The explanations of some of the new stuff will come below the video. In some good news though, you will be able to change type in the closed beta.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwkyyoNa-3g


Shop Area

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25770


Techer (or Tekker I suppose)

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25771

SPECIAL WEAPONs are back. However, any weapon, including not so rare weapons, can appear as SPECIAL WEAPONs. By taking these to a techer and having it appraised you are allowed to pick the element you'd like on the weapon and one special ability. One additional special effect will then be added to the weapon at random.


Beauty Shop

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25772

The Beauty Shop will allow you to edit your character again. However, certain aspects of the beauty shop will use Arks Cash. In the video, you can see the red A marking Arks Cash on teh body type and body morphing options.


Costume Shop

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25773

A shop to purchase costumes with meseta will be in the shop area too. When you go to buy a costume or part, a window will show you a preview of how it will look on your character. There is also no need to go to any kind of dressing room in PSO2. You can change your parts or costume on the fly.



Gate Area

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25775


Team Counter

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25776

A Team counter has been added to the gate area. You can put together a team here. However you must be at least level 10 to start a team. Your team can have up to 100 members and you can even register a website in-game. Additionally, there is a team chat function so you can chat with other members of your team from anywhere. Teams will use symbol art (more on that in a bit) as flags.

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25785

Like PSOBB, the team flag and team name will show up above your character name when you are a member of one.


Title Counter

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25774

Much like the various handheld versions (and later PSU too, I think), PSO2 features titles. These titles can be earned by doing various things and all have rewards. In the screenshot above, the title "You are not alone" can be earned by joining a team and nets you a star atomizer as a reward.

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25777

You can also pick a title to display above your character name. The titles here, btw, are "Knows Echo" (that's an NPC), "New Arks," "Likes Talking," and no-title.


Medical Center

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25778

The medical center will act like Sayo did in PSP2/i. By purchasing an drink with meseta (and only meseta), you gain a one-mission only special effect. In PSP2/i these were things like using less PP, boosted attack power, boosted defense power, and boosted drop rate. In PSO2, you can choose what particular type of boost you want but the results may be random.



Communication


My Room

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25781
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25782
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25780

The number of decorations and variations for players rooms has been increased for the closed beta. There are shelves and tables that items can be placed on and games and other items that can be interacted with. A shopping counter has also been added allowing you to not only purchase items from the visiphone but from player rooms as well. You will need to spend AC to have a room but going to other player's rooms is free.


Symbol Art

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25779

Symbol art is the evolved version of symbol chat from PSO. You can put together symbol art from a selection of over 300 parts and can use up to 200 parts at a single time. You can also assign each creation a sound effect. Expect PSO sounds.


Arks Card

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25783

The Arks Card is the guild card/partner card of PSO2. There are several things players can add to their cards including a wishlist and symbol art.


Friend Partner

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=25786

The Friend Partner system works like PSP2i friend character system did. By having friends register as partners, you can use your friend's characters as NPC during missions. Any auto-words set by your friends will be used when their characters are used as NPCs too. When you register as a partner, you can select from several different attack types, AI types, and specials.

NoiseHERO
Mar 30, 2012, 05:28 AM
Augh, you DO need to spend money to have a room?

Uncool.

LeoTheFabulous
Mar 30, 2012, 05:31 AM
Thanks for the info, drinking sounds quite similar to how eating was in Monster Hunter Tri. I don't mind spending money on having a room at all, especially if it would keep out bots, etc.

rezakon
Mar 30, 2012, 05:36 AM
AC to buy room, yeah better be permanent option because a ticket system would just mean I wouldn't bother.

Most the other stuff we suspected from the trailer to begin with, not so surprised at all of it but good to hear the beauty shop is mesta + cashshop addons, changing costumes on the fly is pretty neat though (wonders if it'll work in the field though).

NoiseHERO
Mar 30, 2012, 05:37 AM
Why would you needa room to bot-What? NO D< WHAT?

What are you gonna spam meseta selling websites in your room?

I SHOULD HIT YOU!

But seriously? We better not have virtual rent.

Mike
Mar 30, 2012, 05:39 AM
Most the other stuff we suspected from the trailer to begin with, not so surprised at all of it but good to hear the beauty shop is mesta + cashshop addons, changing costumes on the fly is pretty neat though (wonders if it'll work in the field though).

Well, all this stuff was announced before. The descriptions of which is new.

Macras
Mar 30, 2012, 05:39 AM
so the using real friends as NPCs.. is there any confirmation if it only works for when they're offline like i think it does or does it include being able to bring along a friends character they arent on?

aside from that, im really liking where this game is going mostly

NoiseHERO
Mar 30, 2012, 05:40 AM
So we should be able to just strip in the lobbies now? :0

rezakon
Mar 30, 2012, 05:46 AM
Well, all this stuff was announced before. The descriptions of which is new.

Yeah I didn't know about some of it, took a break for a good while ;)


So we should be able to just strip in the lobbies now? :0

I can see the lolicon madness now ^^;

I thought it was bad before, it's just gonna be chaos now.

LeoTheFabulous
Mar 30, 2012, 05:48 AM
Why would you needa room to bot-What? NO D< WHAT?

What are you gonna spam meseta selling websites in your room?

I SHOULD HIT YOU!

But seriously? We better not have virtual rent.


As for cheaters, bots, gold sellers, and other nasty types, the blog says that because some of the communication abilities are locked to players who don't purchase system related items, they'll be able to keep a handle on the situation. And of course, bans and stuff will be handed out as needed.




This was basically what I was thinking. If I am wrong then I must have just misunderstood something.

Mike
Mar 30, 2012, 05:55 AM
so the using real friends as NPCs.. is there any confirmation if it only works for when they're offline like i think it does or does it include being able to bring along a friends character they arent on?
Should work when the player is offline or online. It doesn't say either way but I don't see why it would only work when a character is offline. The character you bring along probably wont get any exp or meseta so it shouldn't matter.

NoiseHERO
Mar 30, 2012, 05:57 AM
This was basically what I was thinking. If I am wrong then I must have just misunderstood something.

I still don't really see how them not being able to get into your room is stopping them from standing in an obviously more populated area (a lobby) where they normally would be to begin with...

It's like buying a lock for your house, but the front door stays unlocked, you're just locking your closet door with all of your invaluable toys in it...

It's not anywhere near limiting gold sellers or hackers from doing their job... compared to say.. having to buy a key or having a REAL subscription fee, I'm not getting it... D:

If anything it's just telling the REAL players "Hah, there's no sub fee but you got pay just as much just to have fun side things."

LeoTheFabulous
Mar 30, 2012, 06:04 AM
I still don't really see how them not being able to get into your room is stopping them from standing in an obviously more populated area (a lobby) where they normally would be to begin with...

It's like buying a lock for your house, but the front door stays unlocked, you're just locking your closet door with all of your invaluable toys in it...

It's not anywhere near limiting gold sellers or hackers from doing their job... compared to say.. having to buy a key or having a REAL subscription fee, I'm not getting it... D:

If anything it's just telling the REAL players "Hah, there's no sub fee but you got pay just as much just to have fun side things."

I see what you're trying to say yeah, I wasn't expecting them to enter my room to spam but I thought without a system related purchase communication would be limited. Which I assumed would prevent bots since spamming wouldn't be as effective when no one can hear you. But I agree on how having to buy features such as a room is basically putting a price to play the game, just somewhat optional.

Mike
Mar 30, 2012, 06:04 AM
It's not anywhere near limiting gold sellers or hackers from doing their job... compared to say.. having to buy a key or having a REAL subscription fee, I'm not getting it... D:

By limiting gold seller's access to trading functions, you remove their ability to sell gold as there is no way to pass the gold (or other items) off easily.

LeoTheFabulous
Mar 30, 2012, 06:07 AM
By limiting gold seller's access to trading functions, you remove their ability to sell gold as there is no way to pass the gold (or other items) off easily.
Exactly what I was thinking. Then again, they may just purchase and continue to spam. But this kind of system could limit it a bit.

Mike
Mar 30, 2012, 06:12 AM
Exactly what I was thinking. Then again, they may just purchase and continue to spam. But this kind of system could limit it a bit.

Yup. But then it becomes a matter of profitablitiy on the side of the gold seller. If having to repurchase the ability to trade over multiple bannings becomes more expensive than any profit made selling gold, then the seller will likely leave. And in the end, Sega gets to keep the gold seller's money.

rezakon
Mar 30, 2012, 06:39 AM
By limiting gold seller's access to trading functions, you remove their ability to sell gold as there is no way to pass the gold (or other items) off easily.

Wait trading function is part of my room?

Mike
Mar 30, 2012, 06:43 AM
Wait trading function is part of my room?
I don't know how trading works but it is one of the functions of the game that needs to be enabled in the cash shop.

PrinceBrightstar
Mar 30, 2012, 06:45 AM
Looks like I need to let my team know that the feature is now confirmed.

rezakon
Mar 30, 2012, 06:51 AM
I don't know how trading works but it is one of the functions of the game that needs to be enabled in the cash shop.
I knew about that part but for a second I was thinking you had to buy unlocks for the unlocks ^^; (so unlocking trading function for my room to be able to trade).

Mike
Mar 30, 2012, 06:52 AM
I knew about that part but for a second I was thinking you had to buy unlocks for the unlocks ^^; (so unlocking trading function for my room to be able to trade).
I heard you like unlocks so I put an unlock in your.... Nevermind.

soulpimpwizzurd
Mar 30, 2012, 07:02 AM
lol don't really mind / care for my room so long as we can still drop trade. might end up buying if it's not timed i guess.

hopefully we'll have a storage box we can access without my room though. if we get no bank/storage i'll be sad.

watched through the video and i like launcher more and more

launcher does an attack that reminds me of ciel's arc drive lol, they rush forward and do a huge aoe explosion. it looks good.

and spread shot looks op

SilverFoxR
Mar 30, 2012, 07:10 AM
lol don't really mind / care for my room so long as we can still drop trade. might end up buying if it's not timed i guess.

hopefully we'll have a storage box we can access without my room though. if we get no bank/storage i'll be sad.

I'm sure a lobby-based bank will be available. It'd be madness to do so otherwise. However, storage upgrades (extending how much you can store past the max) I hear will require CS upgrades (and those are almost guarenteed to be permanent).

For the room situation, I highly doubt they'd do a timed pay system for it, considering that you can place items in the room. Though purchasing a room might be a little pricey (say $5-$10 in real cash if not more), it'll likely be a one-time thing.

Mike
Mar 30, 2012, 07:11 AM
lol don't really mind / care for my room so long as we can still drop trade.

Don't count on it.


hopefully we'll have a storage box we can access without my room though. if we get no bank/storage i'll be sad.

There will be storage without the room. You can access it from the various terminals in the city and on the jump ship.

CelestialBlade
Mar 30, 2012, 07:36 AM
Not really bothered by having to pay for rooms considering a one-time purchase is certainly cheaper than paying a monthly fee over the life of the game. As long as it's a permanent purchase, I'm tired of the time-limited items on a lot of free MMOs now.

soulpimpwizzurd
Mar 30, 2012, 07:42 AM
Don't count on it.



There will be storage without the room. You can access it from the various terminals in the city and on the jump ship.

i'm gonna seriously cry if we can't drop trade. i loved drop parties and spamming 1 meseta drops everywhere :(

and btw silverfoxr

"For the room situation, I highly doubt they'd do a timed pay system for it, considering that you can place items in the room. Though purchasing a room might be a little pricey (say $5-$10 in real cash if not more), it'll likely be a one-time thing"

don't underestimate the flexibility devs can show when they need ways to implement possible cash items lol.

it was total BS but in this f2p with cash shop game i used to play a really long time ago called lunia, you could get a storage bag that was temporary. i did not willingly buy this, i got one as an event prize. i forgot to empty my bag before it expired and EVERYTHING INSIDE THE BAG WAS LOCKED LOL. i had to either buy another temporary bag ticket/ buy a perm bag ticket on that "locked bag" if i wanted to get my items back loooooool

so to put it quite bluntly i wouldn't be surprised if they just locked you out of your room (keeping everything the same) until you coughed up the dough, re-enabling your access to your room.

Golto
Mar 30, 2012, 08:15 AM
Maybe you don't purchase rooms but rent them.

Dinosaur
Mar 30, 2012, 08:23 AM
i'm gonna seriously cry if we can't drop trade.

Let the tears commence. It doesn't exist. It's caused so many problems...

With that said, all drops on the field are your own drops. A rare may drop for you but it may be a monomate for your teammate.

Rizen
Mar 30, 2012, 08:30 AM
Techer (or Tekker I suppose)
SPECIAL WEAPONs are back. However, any weapon, including not so rare weapons, can appear as SPECIAL WEAPONs. By taking these to a techer and having it appraised you are allowed to pick the element you'd like on the weapon and one special ability. One additional special effect will then be added to the weapon at random.

Ah yes...I always remember the few seconds of suspense when going to the tekker and hoping for a great outcome. My friends and I use to do little chants to jynx each while tekker was appraising items.
I wonder if the additional effects will be like +55% beast -10% machine etc...



Beauty Shop
The Beauty Shop will allow you to edit your character again. However, certain aspects of the beauty shop will use Arks Cash
Costume Shop
A shop to purchase costumes with meseta will be in the shop area too. When you go to buy a costume or part, a window will show you a preview of how it will look on your character. There is also no need to go to any kind of dressing room in PSO2. You can change your parts or costume on the fly.


Here goes the cosmetic info I was looking for. So basically there's a regular and premium shop. I don't think I will be delving in the beauty shop much. Usually once I'm done creating a character, I don't mess with the hair and such...unless we have to go there for hats...

Also, it's nice that you can change costumes on the fly. It was a bit annoying having to run back to your room, go through storage, change clothes, then store clothes again each time you wanted to change outfits. Now the question is, do clothes take up inventory space? Or do they have a space of their own?



Team Counter
A Team counter has been added to the gate area. You can put together a team here. However you must be at least level 10 to start a team. Your team can have up to 100 members and you can even register a website in-game. Additionally, there is a team chat function so you can chat with other members of your team from anywhere. Teams will use symbol art (more on that in a bit) as flags.


Funny how we were talking about this yesterday. 100 members is a nice cap, but I'm sure the average team is going to be around 20 or so. Of course, there will be the obvious big guilds with the going for glory deal going on that many will try to avoid (Hey, its the history of PSO...).

Team flags and websites are a nice touch as well. Symbol Art has always been a fun pass time in PSO online with friends. Making it so Teams can make a flag instead of uploading an image adds a more of a personal touch...also prevents the obvious you know what...although...I am 100% sure that it will just wind up in symbol art anyway...



My Room
The number of decorations and variations for players rooms has been increased for the closed beta. There are shelves and tables that items can be placed on and games and other items that can be interacted with. A shopping counter has also been added allowing you to not only purchase items from the visiphone but from player rooms as well. You will need to spend AC to have a room but going to other player's rooms is free.

I'm going to assume its a one time fee. If it is, I see no problem with it...otherwise...I may not have a room. Not because I don't like it, just that its not a necessity to play the game. If there were other features I had to pay for, I think I would choose those over a room. I would like to keep my three square meals of ramen, thank you!



Friend Partner
The Friend Partner system works like PSP2i friend character system did. By having friends allow you to register them as partners, you can use your friend's characters as NPC during missions. Any auto-words set by your friends will be used when their characters are used as NPCs too.
I assume that they are going to cap their level to yours....right? Seems like people would just give out their partner cards for cash just power level people if they don't.



I thought it was bad before, it's just gonna be chaos now.
I've always been worried about it...

Mike
Mar 30, 2012, 08:36 AM
I'm going to assume its a one time fee. If it is, I see no problem with it...otherwise...I may not have a room.
Can't say. It may be available as both purchase and rent. There's no info about any of the system related cash shop options other than that.


I assume that they are going to cap their level to yours....right? Seems like people would just give out their partner cards for cash just power level people if they don't.
Probably. PSP2i matched your friend's characters to your character's level so I bet this would work similarly.

Rizen
Mar 30, 2012, 08:43 AM
Probably. PSP2i matched your friend's characters to your character's level so I bet this would work similarly.
Reason I asked is because I remember seeing videos of people running through Infinity missions with lv 200 characters after rebirthing to level up quickly. Although, I'm pretty sure they could probably do it on their own without partners...

soulpimpwizzurd
Mar 30, 2012, 08:44 AM
Let the tears commence. It doesn't exist. It's caused so many problems...

With that said, all drops on the field are your own drops. A rare may drop for you but it may be a monomate for your teammate.

http://struckbyenlightning.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/crying-indian1.jpg

the drop potluck tradition of my people will be forgotten

Rizen
Mar 30, 2012, 08:48 AM
the drop potluck tradition of my people will be forgotten

That is wrong in so many ways...lol

Mike
Mar 30, 2012, 08:51 AM
Reason I asked is because I remember seeing videos of people running through Infinity missions with lv 200 characters after rebirthing to level up quickly. Although, I'm pretty sure they could probably do it on their own without partners...

In Infinity, there are actually two different systems at work. You can invite your own characters in to your party as NPCs as well as your friend's characters. When you invite your own characters, they keep their level and equipment. Friend character's level and equipment scale to yours. In PSO2, there has been no mention of being able to invite your own characters in to the party so I don't think we have to worry about powerleveling in that manner.

moorebounce
Mar 30, 2012, 08:54 AM
I really like the fact that you can use team member characters as NPCs. I wonder will it use their current stats or some kind of generic standard. Okay I'm wondering why you have to be a level 10 to even form a team?

Rizen
Mar 30, 2012, 08:56 AM
In Infinity, there are actually two different systems at work. You can invite your own characters in to your party as NPCs as well as your friend's characters. When you invite your own characters, they keep their level and equipment. Friend character's level and equipment scale to yours. In PSO2, there has been no mention of being able to invite your own characters in to the party so I don't think we have to worry about powerleveling in that manner.
That would explain it...I was wondering why my friend's characters scaled to my level and my own characters didn't.

Crystal_Shard
Mar 30, 2012, 09:07 AM
If My Rooms do end up being rentals, count me as one more person who'll have to reconsider actually getting rooms for my eventual characters. Would be a bit of a shame though. It'll be quite a problem for those of us with multiple characters either way, considering it seems to be on a per character basis.

I wonder if I can rent a big suite and have all my characters become roomies. ^_^

@Rizen, deldelight8: Is it just me, or is that a single teardrop running down the guy's right cheek? o_O

@moorebounce: It'll probably mirror Infinity, like Mike is saying.

@Mike: Edit, whoops, didn't read your reply carefully. My bad. I'm still curious to know if we'll be able to call on our own characters in addition to friend characters. That hasn't been confirmed yet, right? I kinda get not allowing us to invite our alts to prevent power leveling, but that would be a pity. No more narcissistic group photo shoots. ^_^ Might make me consider seriously making an extra account for a character important enough.

Ryoten
Mar 30, 2012, 09:21 AM
Rooms better not be rentals or per character based. That would make the game a little lack luster then. I for one enjoyed just being in my room, chatting with others & planning what to do next. Seeing the videos is making me wonder just how much of the game will be cash shops besides what we know.

Mike
Mar 30, 2012, 09:34 AM
Rooms are account & server based. All your characters on a server will share the same room.

I went back to the video and added some of the info I gleaned from it to the first post. Things like Arks Cash icons in the beauty shop and partner registration. Also, looking at the new options in the character menu there are things like "Whisper," "Good Job," and "Immitate." Whisper is obvious and so is immitate. I'm not sure why there needs to be a "good job" option though.

metatime
Mar 30, 2012, 09:35 AM
Augh, you DO need to spend money to have a room?

Uncool.

Nope this is EXACTLY what they need to do. Do not make the gameplay Play to WIN, it ruins the progression of the game horribly.

Keep all CS aesthics and convenience items only and keep all CS items that affect gameplay out of the CS.

It destroys a game and lose people in the long run.

Arika
Mar 30, 2012, 09:46 AM
Everything look good so far.

Mag-X
Mar 30, 2012, 10:00 AM
Personally, I don't care much about the room itself, but it better not be like PSU were you need your room for your bank and accessing player stores. Didn't they also say that you'll have to pay to trade items? So will free version players not be able to pick up items that other players drop, just like PSU? The free version of PSU seemed like it was supposed to be more of a free demo, but really it just pissed me off and made me not want to play.

moorebounce
Mar 30, 2012, 10:07 AM
@Rizen, deldelight8: Is it just me, or is that a single teardrop running down the guy's right cheek? o_O

Man thats from the classic 70s commercial where the Indian starts crying when he sees people littering


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk5ssc1uY30&feature=related

Board
Mar 30, 2012, 10:09 AM
The room I'm okay with having to pay to access, since I wasn't really going to use it anyway so one less thing to worry about. Same with trading, because the only time I've ever traded with people in an ORGP was to give them mats for crafting. Since there really isn't any crafting in this game, ergo I don't really need it.

About the room thing being time-based: that's a really, really silly idea. I don't think Sega would do that, albeit I'm trying to stay positive here.

Griffin
Mar 30, 2012, 10:10 AM
Like Mike said, I'm betting there will be temporary and permanent options for rooms. I'm not a room guy, but now that it is sort of exclusive now, that somewhat thrills me to purchase one. Account-wide? Shut up and take my money. >:U

r00tabaga
Mar 30, 2012, 10:15 AM
I hope they give a permanent payment for MyRoom. I definitely won't be renting. Also, I hope they allow us to use our other created characters as NPC's. I never got to play Infinity & always wanted to take all my guys out for a run together! Friend characters will do for now...

\Good stuff Mike (as always)/

Griffin
Mar 30, 2012, 10:17 AM
I'm really loving the character chat splashes. They're so lively and fluent. It makes battles look more intense!

LeoTheFabulous
Mar 30, 2012, 10:23 AM
I'm really loving the character chat splashes. They're so lively and fluent. It makes battles look more intense!

They do look really good, but hopefully won't get in the way a lot.

Griffin
Mar 30, 2012, 10:24 AM
I hope they do.

Crystal_Shard
Mar 30, 2012, 10:24 AM
As long as a purchase is account wide, that's fine by me I suppose, though impermanence would leave us back to square one with a monthly fee.

Regarding account wide, I assume it'll just be the standard, one room per character deal, but I think I'll just allow myself to imagine if that would really mean the room is shared by all the characters (player alts as NPCs wandering the rooms? alts as roommates?).

@Mag-X : You could access your storage boxes from the lobby areas and the quest ship, so no need to worry about that I should think.

Rizen
Mar 30, 2012, 10:46 AM
I thought I wouldn't need to bring this up here...but seems like I do. Of course, what I am about say is my own opinion based off some given facts that will change over the course of time until the game's release.

From the beginning, pretty much everyone here was willing to pay for a subscription. This means that you were willing to pay a monthly fee for the game. Now that people know they plan on going F2P, people are getting antsy over the money as aspect (with good reason). I think people may be missing some insight. It seems as though SEGA is making median between people willing to pay for subscriptions versus those who do not.

Before I go on, the following are just speculatory number thrown out for a bit of insight...do not take it for fact.

So lets say they kept the subscription fee and gave us everything that would have been in the cash shop included in the game with a few exceptions. That would mean that you would be paying roughly $10~13 a month for everything. With that in mind, lets look at the F2P system.
Now with the F2P model, you would start at $0 a month and add on what you want from there. Let's say renting a room costs $5 a month. $5 a month is still less than buying a subscription. Now lets say having access to premium missions (if they have them) cost another $5. Thats now $10 which we are now looking at the equivalence of a subscription fee. Then let say that owning a Team costs $2 a month. We are now looking at $12 a month which is still in range for a monthly fee. Finally, lets say you want to buy the premium costumes and hairstyles from the shop that costs $1 each. Now we are looking at paying more than the intended monthly fee which SEGA is probably hoping to make profits from. If it is this way, players will be able to pick and choose what they pay for instead of paying for everything and not necessarily using all of it.


So in short, think of it like a pizza. If you want pizza, you going to be paying for it. If you don't want it, you aren't going to pay for it. If you want extra toppings on that pizza, you are going to pay more for it. And for those who don't buy the pizza, they will be enticed to buy one because of the appeal of seeing and smelling it.

Mag-X
Mar 30, 2012, 11:08 AM
The problem isn't that I won't pay. It's that my friends won't pay. If they make the free version so restrictive that it's not worth playing it's going to drive away my friends, which means I won't play. If they do it like PSU, they may as well just save me the annoyance of having to purchase multiple things and make it subscription based.

That said, I hope I'm just worrying too much.

LeoTheFabulous
Mar 30, 2012, 11:22 AM
The problem isn't that I won't pay. It's that my friends won't pay. If they make the free version so restrictive that it's not worth playing it's going to drive away my friends, which means I won't play. If they do it like PSU, they may as well just save me the annoyance of having to purchase multiple things and make it subscription based.

That said, I hope I'm just worrying too much.

We can only hope that the free version is just good enough to entice new players to the series to pay. And SEGA seems to be doing a lot of stuff I agree with (which doesn't necessarily mean that all players agree with but still) so I have some hope that things are different from PSU.

Also I was thinking of something similar to Rizen's post. If paying for rooms WAS a rental, then it would just be similar to actually having a sub fee. And really, isn't more choices the better option?

Griffin
Mar 30, 2012, 11:28 AM
It seems as if people's mindset changes when a different business model is put in place.

"I can't wait for PSO2! I have a gaming budget put aside just to buy the game and sub! Way to go, Sega!"
*announces F2P*
"Oh, it's gonna be a Cash Shop game?! Screw you, Sega!"


I'm assuming it's not a money issue for most people, right?

Rizen
Mar 30, 2012, 11:30 AM
It's not so much SEGA here, it is the mindset caused by previous Cash Shop games that milked players for every cent they owned.

LeoTheFabulous
Mar 30, 2012, 11:31 AM
To be fair most have seen what happens to F2P games like this. I am not saying it will happen, but F2P is generally a new thing. Over time it will hopefully gain more acceptance. Of course, it's reputation could use a little boost, with developers doing things right.

EDIT:
Ninjered.

Griffin
Mar 30, 2012, 11:32 AM
It's not so much SEGA here, it is the mindset caused by previous Cash Shop games that milked players for every cent they owned.

Good point. But all that repressed anger shouldn't explode over Sega.

Mag-X
Mar 30, 2012, 12:02 PM
Even if the free players never contribute any money, they're still of value because they give us other people to play with. The free version needs to be perfectly playable and not a locked down demo. If they over do it, it'll drive people away instead of making them want to pay. Premium items are one thing, but restricting access to trading and player shops again will be some epic bullshit.

Rizen
Mar 30, 2012, 12:05 PM
Even if the free players never contribute any money, they're still of value because they give us other people to play with. The free version needs to be perfectly playable and not a locked down demo. If they over do it, it'll drive people away instead of making them want to pay. Premium items are one thing, but restricting access to trading and player shops again will be some epic bullshit.

Free players can still make them money via advertisements and hits to their site/server.

Griffin
Mar 30, 2012, 12:05 PM
Premium items are one thing, but restricting access to trading and player shops again will be some epic bullshit.

From my experience in F2P games, there are player shops, then Premium player shops. There's a line to draw, and I'm sure Sega has researched other F2P games to know where to draw it.

Basically, I just see Premium versions of basic features and goods.

Clunker
Mar 30, 2012, 12:17 PM
What I'm concerned with, in this update, is that "dropping games" bit with SEGA's 'restructuring'...

Rizen
Mar 30, 2012, 12:21 PM
Don't be too concerned with it. It shouldn't effect PSO2 at all. Basically, there will be less non-popular SEGA games in the US and a push to promote the most popular ones.

We may see those titles affected as a digital version to download though.

Cayenne
Mar 30, 2012, 12:25 PM
After a few days of thinking about it and this new update, it don't look so bad now.

I have no intention in buying a room, once I make a character I don't change it so that's another thing I won't be worried about, and I might drop the cash for the trade option.

What still bugs me though is buying exp/drop rate boot and pay to heal.

Clunker
Mar 30, 2012, 12:26 PM
That's what I'm hoping - that PSO2's 'one of the stronger IPs' enough to still be brought out --
and brought out abroad.

CelestialBlade
Mar 30, 2012, 12:34 PM
I still can't bring myself to complain about paying for a room and a shop once when I don't have a monthly fee OR an initial game cost to worry about. As long as the purchase is permanent it sounds fair to me, especially in addition to the above points about free player profitability.

Ark22
Mar 30, 2012, 12:53 PM
Pretty sure you just buy it once. You can buy different themes most likely.

Strider_M
Mar 30, 2012, 01:10 PM
I never played PSP2i but that friend system thing sounds cool. I hope we could invite our own altnerate characters to play with us as NPC's too!

Also I've read Mike's Post #34. So even if I invited my Alt and they was the same lvl as me that'll be fine.

The characters I create always have the same surname...

OH! By the way.... Does anyone know the limit for how many letters can be in name?

Rizen
Mar 30, 2012, 01:12 PM
I think it's either 15 japanese characters or 15 english letters.... let me find the exact.

r00tabaga
Mar 30, 2012, 01:13 PM
Nobody knows yet if it is going to Room rent or one-time purchase. I suppose your guess is as good as mine, but probably better. I hope for both options.

Ark22
Mar 30, 2012, 01:16 PM
It would make no sense, I mean Playstation Home had better looking houses for $5 and it was a one time buy. They will just make a crap ton of different houses so the fashion fanatics will buy theme and show them off. They will probably charge for decorations too. Makes sense right?

Zorafim
Mar 30, 2012, 01:24 PM
Inviting your own characters into your own party? I must have missed that information. That sounds great! It makes sense, too. Often, people create characters which are part of a family, or are otherwise very close. It makes sense to have these family members fight alongside each other. Levia fighting with her father at her back sounds like something I'd enjoy seeing.
PSO2 is probably the worst game to do it, though. Since you return to lv1 every time you level a new class, it'll be like leveling an alt every time you switch classes. So there won't be much motivation to level a real alt for a while, unless you just like creating new characters. Or if there's a good reason to level a character of the same class, such as different playstyles (maybe a tanky hunter and a stabby hunter will feel kinda different?).
Regardless, I love hearing this. Sounds like another feature I'd love to play with.

As for using your friend's partner cards to summon their characters as NPCs, doesn't that sound kind of... Creepy? I'm sure I'm just imagining it, but using your friend's virtual persona without your friend there to control it, is like... It's like going clubbing with your friend's body while he's at work.
I'm probably just making things up. I think I'd have more fun seeing a character my friend personalized in my group than some random NPC Sega cooked up.

Griffin
Mar 30, 2012, 01:27 PM
Inviting your own characters into your own party? I must have missed that information.

I think that was just speculation. I only read "friend's characters".

Zorafim
Mar 30, 2012, 01:29 PM
Oh. Well, that saves me from leveling alts when I should be focusing on subclasses. Still, the possibilities!

edit: Pretend this post is under Rizen's to make him feel good. Also: make good flow of conversion.

Rizen
Mar 30, 2012, 01:29 PM
Err...Zorafim, I think you missed part of the coversation. It's only been confirmed that you can use your friend's partner cards for NPCs. What we were referring was PSPoI2's system where you could use both your friend's and your characters for NPCs. There may be a chance you will be able to invite your alts, but again that part is not confirmed.

As for the creepyness factor...it really isn't that bad. Especially if your friend acts in character or doesn't speak at all.

Edit:
Ninja'd :(

Strider_M
Mar 30, 2012, 02:24 PM
I was unaware that if you switch classes your lvl drops back to 1.

Is it like PSU where there was a seperate Class lvl or do your character go back to lvl 1 so I have to use my basic armor and what not?

Like If I was Hunter for 30 lvls and I switch to Ranger..... Can I still use my lvl 30ish GunBlade? (forgot the name of it)

Also if the letter limit stays the same from PSU then I'll be ok with that.

Randomness
Mar 30, 2012, 04:54 PM
If getting permament unlock on all the system stuff (room, shop, etc.) can be done for $40 or less, I'd basically the shrug the whole thing off - I don't see it as a problem in that case, since I willingly shell out $40-$60 for good games anyways (By good, I generally mean "keeps my interest for 30-40 hrs or more"). I don't think PSO2 will struggle to meet that criteria.

NoiseHERO
Mar 30, 2012, 04:59 PM
It'd be cool to have all of my original characters team up (That's what I did in dragon quest 9) Hoping you CAN do that.

But I don't think you'd be able to level them up all at once, I think they'd work like PSU's NPCs where they just match your level.

Xaeris
Mar 30, 2012, 05:11 PM
Since drops are generated uniquely on a per character basis, it would be neat if you could take your friends' characters rare hunting and they'd log in later that day to find brand new items in their inventory. I don't see it happening because people would abuse the hell out of that which is why we can't have nice things.

Rizen
Mar 30, 2012, 05:26 PM
Since drops are generated uniquely on a per character basis, it would be neat if you could take your friends' characters rare hunting and they'd log in later that day to find brand new items in their inventory. I don't see it happening because people would abuse the hell out of that which is why we can't have nice things.
Maybe something to a lesser extent such as a chance to receive a special item from a friend using your character once a day across all friends (have to have some limiting factor to it).

Dark Emerald EXE
Mar 30, 2012, 05:41 PM
I'm open minded to this....since sometimes I used to be bored with my current appearance in PSU there was times I'd just change costumes. Now depending whether it's a one-time purchase or it's a time based I'd think it over.

I hope it's one-time fee though.

Anyone have a group that's currently still looking for people?





Also....I wonder if PSU server will be down by the time PSO2 comes out or will they be up at the same time o.0

NoiseHERO
Mar 30, 2012, 05:47 PM
I'm open minded to this....since sometimes I used to be bored with my current appearance in PSU there was times I'd just change costumes. Now depending whether it's a one-time purchase or it's a time based I'd think it over.

I hope it's one-time fee though.

Anyone have a group that's currently still looking for people?





Also....I wonder if PSU server will be down by the time PSO2 comes out or will they be up at the same time o.0

They'll probably be up at the same time like PSU and PSO.

Even if a game gets really old, or it sucks, it'll still piss people off shutting in down in their face implying they should move on.

Once the money it rakes in starts to dwindle that's when a game will go down.

So as far as we know, PSU will probably be alive for another 1-3 years.

moorebounce
Mar 30, 2012, 05:50 PM
I'm open minded to this....since sometimes I used to be bored with my current appearance in PSU there was times I'd just change costumes. Now depending whether it's a one-time purchase or it's a time based I'd think it over.

I hope it's one-time fee though.

I would think costumes wouldn't be time-based. I think that is for certain boosts in Exp, drops and PSE bursts. I for one wouldn't buy a costume just to have it be time-based. Not even for a holiday.

Dark Emerald EXE
Mar 30, 2012, 06:23 PM
I for one wouldn't buy a costume just to have it be time-based. Not even for a holiday.
Oh yea of course.
Which is why im glad they having the demo out so I can toy with creation types and see what'd like.

I just hope all these things such as the room and such are one time fees. If it was like a renting style then'd just wouldn't do it -.-


This would be my first f2p style RPG of any kind but I feel system related stuff is wrong to have "purchased" but hey I guess on a business point of view that's how they get money

SELENNA
Mar 30, 2012, 06:54 PM
I hope we can somehow find the items that are being sold for real money. Like, make it a very low drop, but still available for people who don't want to spend a lot of money on equipment.

Griffin
Mar 30, 2012, 06:56 PM
I wouldn't call it "equipment", because it makes it sound stat-oriented. What most of us expect are vanity; completely aesthetic.

RadiantLegend
Mar 30, 2012, 07:04 PM
So far looking good.

Angelo
Mar 30, 2012, 08:00 PM
It'd be cool to have all of my original characters team up (That's what I did in dragon quest 9) Hoping you CAN do that.

But I don't think you'd be able to level them up all at once, I think they'd work like PSU's NPCs where they just match your level.

What's to keep you from just making an account for every character?

Shadownami92
Mar 30, 2012, 08:06 PM
I think what I would hate more is trading tickets that can expire. I mean I don't know I feel like trading is such an important mechanic in a game like this (maybe less so since I don't see section IDs) but if not done right a cash shop can totally ruin that part of the game.

I mean, I'd still play the game even if I couldn't trade but if there is a lot of people who think that way, then it severely limits the amount of people to trade with for the people that do pay for it. I guess it's a sort of thing where you wouldn't pay for the trading ticket unless you know your friends got it as well.

Randomness
Mar 30, 2012, 08:34 PM
I think what I would hate more is trading tickets that can expire. I mean I don't know I feel like trading is such an important mechanic in a game like this (maybe less so since I don't see section IDs) but if not done right a cash shop can totally ruin that part of the game.

I mean, I'd still play the game even if I couldn't trade but if there is a lot of people who think that way, then it severely limits the amount of people to trade with for the people that do pay for it. I guess it's a sort of thing where you wouldn't pay for the trading ticket unless you know your friends got it as well.

Reading the first post, it only seems like player shops are restricted...

I would hope that at least item-item trades are possible for free. (This would hinder any attempts to sell meseta, but allow people to trade rares at least)

Griffin
Mar 30, 2012, 08:41 PM
I would hope that at least item-item trades are possible for free. (This would hinder any attempts to sell meseta, but allow people to trade rares at least)

Oh. So you surmise that the "paid for" trading allows the ability to sell/trade Premium items? That's a pretty good thought.

Mike
Mar 30, 2012, 08:41 PM
I would hope that at least item-item trades are possible for free. (This would hinder any attempts to sell meseta, but allow people to trade rares at least)

Wouldn't count on it. The ability to trade is locked in to the cash shop too.

Rizen
Mar 30, 2012, 08:42 PM
Interesting... Now the question is... can people drop items in missions for others to pick up?

Griffin
Mar 30, 2012, 08:43 PM
Wouldn't count on it. The ability to trade is locked in to the cash shop too.

Any form of trading, Mike?

SELENNA
Mar 30, 2012, 08:53 PM
Interesting... Now the question is... can people drop items in missions for others to pick up?

Doubtful

•Col•
Mar 30, 2012, 08:57 PM
Everyone has their own drops, remember? So no, you couldn't just drop an item for another player.

It was the same way in PSP2. Only way to transfer items between 2 players was to use the item trader thing... Which wouldn't even let you trade rares.

Noblewine
Mar 30, 2012, 09:09 PM
Wow I liked seeing the symbol chat feature appear in this version. The new additions to symbol chat is pretty cool too. The new information looks great and can't wait to see more. I want to tinker with that symbol chat feature.

Dark Emerald EXE
Mar 30, 2012, 09:32 PM
I know this is a lil to early to mention but I hope there are actually quest/missions that where unique in their own right....

Like the quest in PSO where u saw Nights...I think when I first played PSO online on GC i thought that was one of the coolest things ever in that game....

Oh and the Endless Nightmare quest....those where so fun :)
Not identical mind you but just something that's unique....

That's actually why i got bored of PSU it lacked creativity when it came missions and the only time stuff was creative was generally event type stuff (not counting GBR)

BIG OLAF
Mar 30, 2012, 10:36 PM
Didn't someone say somewhere that high-end rares wouldn't be trade-able in PSO2, much like PSP2?

pikachief
Mar 30, 2012, 10:42 PM
Didn't someone say somewhere that high-end rares wouldn't be trade-able in PSO2, much like PSP2?

They aren't tradeable once they've been equipped.

I'm really excited for the Friend partner thingy! I've been wanting that since early into PSU :D

Paying for my room is fine. As long as none of the permanent, necessary, system related things are recurring payments.

Aiex
Mar 30, 2012, 10:43 PM
Yeah, it was a feature requested by alpha testers that Sega decided to add in. There's mixed feelings about it. Some people are really in favor or it and others are really upset about it.

BIG OLAF
Mar 30, 2012, 10:46 PM
Ah, that's a good middle-ground alternative. That way you can trade an item that you already have, and/or don't need. Neat.

r00tabaga
Mar 31, 2012, 12:33 AM
I'm just bummed that if I find a better % Rare Sword I won't be able to equip it and trade my lesser % dupe. I hope we can spend meseta (not Arks cash) to "fully unequip" it for trading.

Dinosaur
Mar 31, 2012, 12:55 AM
I'm just bummed that if I find a better % Rare Sword I won't be able to equip it and trade my lesser % dupe. I hope we can spend meseta (not Arks cash) to "fully unequip" it for trading.

You can use your weaker % weapon to increase the % on your other one(or vice-versa).

Worship
Mar 31, 2012, 11:26 AM
wow, excellent news :)

dooby613
Apr 1, 2012, 02:09 AM
boycotting due to lack of photon chairs.

Anon_Fire
Apr 1, 2012, 02:12 AM
boycotting due to lack of photon chairs.

Get with the times.

Macman
Apr 1, 2012, 02:51 AM
Hey, some people just want to store their chairs in their ass. Nothing wrong with that.

DragonForce
Apr 1, 2012, 10:36 AM
I'm a cast! I should be able to shit chairs out of my ass if I want!

Krank32oz
Apr 1, 2012, 11:04 AM
Honestly I loved the Photon Chairs. They were fun and just gave ya something else to do. I wish they did bring those back.

Rizen
Apr 1, 2012, 11:05 AM
Photon Chair soccer was the best!

Rei-San
Apr 1, 2012, 12:21 PM
I don't cared much for the chairs, but lobby soccer/games would be something I'd love to see return.

Vashyron
Apr 1, 2012, 02:06 PM
Just noticed this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12804628/PSO2/Colored%20HUmar.png

Look at the NPC to the right in a HUmar costume. Notice anything off about it?
Orange Shoulder Pad? Dark Green tone for the majority of the costume?

Unless this is a boring NPC thing, perhaps first confirmation that you'll be able to change more than the "main" color on clothing? But looking at the NPC's skin tone, it looks blue-greenish, making me possibly think it's a Cast in HUmar clothing?

(How depressingly funny would it be if Casts could get 4 Rainbow sliders for all Fleshy clothing.)

NoiseHERO
Apr 1, 2012, 02:37 PM
Just noticed this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12804628/PSO2/Colored%20HUmar.png

Look at the NPC to the right in a HUmar costume. Notice anything off about it?
Orange Shoulder Pad? Dark Green tone for the majority of the costume?

Unless this is a boring NPC thing, perhaps first confirmation that you'll be able to change more than the "main" color on clothing? But looking at the NPC's skin tone, it looks blue-greenish, making me possibly think it's a Cast in HUmar clothing?

(How depressingly funny would it be if Casts could get 4 Rainbow sliders for all Fleshy clothing.)

Well THAT would be fair.

OR it could be one of the advantages of cash shop fashion (Doubt it)

OR it could just be the colors looking weird in that image with all that glow everywhere.. But even thinking of that his outfit is still definitely a different color than the normal humar suit.

Merumeru
Apr 1, 2012, 03:00 PM
I'm REALLY excited about the Friend Partner system XD I can't wait to turn my friends into NPCs

Rizen
Apr 1, 2012, 03:07 PM
I'm REALLY excited about the Friend Partner system XD I can't wait to turn my friends into NPCs

...That seems kinda....creepy when you say it like that.

Griffin
Apr 1, 2012, 03:22 PM
...That seems kinda....creepy when you say it like that.

Some real House of Wax stuff.

Merumeru
Apr 1, 2012, 03:27 PM
...That seems kinda....creepy when you say it like that.

Some real House of Wax stuff.
XP There's nothing unhealthy or creepy about wanting a few soulless minions doppleganging the appearance of my dear companions who are incapable of resistance or questioning my actions to boss around and succumb to my wishes, desires and bidding...probably....

ForceOfBrokenGlass
Apr 1, 2012, 03:44 PM
XP There's nothing unhealthy or creepy about wanting a few soulless minions doppleganging the appearance of my dear companions who are incapable of resistance or questioning my actions to boss around and succumb to my wishes, desires and bidding...probably....

...Yeah, day one, someone's going to log in to find their friend trying to make out with their HUnewearl.

Ark22
Apr 1, 2012, 03:50 PM
One thing that would be fun to do if they put in PVP is put the game in battle mode and attempt to finish a level. Forces made it so hard with techniques.

r00tabaga
Apr 1, 2012, 03:52 PM
One thing that would be fun to do if they put in PVP is put the game in battle mode and attempt to finish a level. Forces made it so hard with techniques.

Translation? I know it's English but I read it four times and I'm still lost.

SuperChoco
Apr 1, 2012, 04:19 PM
Translation? I know it's English but I read it four times and I'm still lost.

If they implemented a PVP mode, it would be fun if it was done in the style of PSO, in which you could still go through regular missions with friendly fire enabled. It was extremely difficult to do with forces.

Griffin
Apr 1, 2012, 04:22 PM
If they implemented a PVP mode, it would be fun if it was done in the style of PSO, in which you could still go through regular missions with friendly fire enabled. It was extremely difficult to do with forces.

That would be too funny. But maybe that's a bad idea because I wouldn't be able to help being a troll to my friends sometimes.

LoveRappy
Apr 1, 2012, 04:28 PM
i think those playing for free will still be getting a good game, but paying just gives you extra options. kinda like the pizza comparison. so, if you dont wanna pay any real money for anything or only want a few things, you should be fine. in the end, it will still be cheaper than paying a $10-$15 sub, at least for most.

i really hate the whole "bind on equip/bind on pickup" thing Blizzard started with WoW. it ruins the trade aspect of these games. i hope it doesn't have too much of an impact in PSO2. i like being able to share weapons with friends or give something i found to an alt.

r00tabaga
Apr 1, 2012, 05:52 PM
Love Rappy: I agree with everything you said, especially the binding part. I also think that those who get the free version and never spend a dime should still get a great experience. I can imagine that I will be paying equal to or more than game cost + subs.

Merumeru
Apr 1, 2012, 08:26 PM
i really hate the whole "bind on equip/bind on pickup" thing Blizzard started with WoW. it ruins the trade aspect of these games. i hope it doesn't have too much of an impact in PSO2. i like being able to share weapons with friends or give something i found to an alt.XP The reason behind weapon binding on pickup makes sense to me; the person who worked for the item should be the only one to have the item; if someone else wants it, they should be able to get it themselves XD just think about the exploitability, if stuff like that is tradeable, nobody will ever go through the maps/dungeons to earn it themselves; they will just trade meseta for it and miss the gameplay that goes along with earning the item XP not to mention that some people would just farm farm farm the crap out of the maps just to get the items to trade them, which will really bring down the value lots

Vashyron
Apr 1, 2012, 08:28 PM
Also you'll be able to pass off the special abilities of that untradable item to something else.

Rizen
Apr 1, 2012, 08:30 PM
XP There's nothing unhealthy or creepy about wanting a few soulless minions doppleganging the appearance of my dear companions who are incapable of resistance or questioning my actions to boss around and succumb to my wishes, desires and bidding...probably....
*slowly backs away* I'm going to be extra careful what I put on my partner card for you...

GreenArcher
Apr 1, 2012, 08:40 PM
I thought drops were bind on equip, not bind on pickup.

Mike
Apr 1, 2012, 08:43 PM
I thought drops were bind on equip, not bind on pickup.
They are.

iBOCK
Apr 1, 2012, 09:06 PM
I hope it doesn't cost too much to buy a room. I won't mind spending Ark Cash on it as long as it's not unreasonable.

r00tabaga
Apr 1, 2012, 09:33 PM
XP The reason behind weapon binding on pickup makes sense to me; the person who worked for the item should be the only one to have the item; if someone else wants it, they should be able to get it themselves XD just think about the exploitability, if stuff like that is tradeable, nobody will ever go through the maps/dungeons to earn it themselves; they will just trade meseta for it and miss the gameplay that goes along with earning the item XP not to mention that some people would just farm farm farm the crap out of the maps just to get the items to trade them, which will really bring down the value lots

I don't fully understand this line of thinking. If I spend 1,000 hours searching for a rare item that I really want and may NEVER find, I should be able to buy it w/hard earned meseta regardless of binding. Someone gets lucky and finds two....I will be fine forking over 2M meseta. Some drop rates are ridiculous. They need to allow us to unbind at some point. My $.02

Rei-San
Apr 1, 2012, 10:29 PM
I hope that we don't ever get to unbind our items. Keeps the rares out of the market so people wont complain about nothing to do. If they want to find the items themselves then they can purchase the Drop rate boost with Arks cash. And have a grand time.


Not to sound cynical or anything. Just don't want the community ruined like in PSU.

r00tabaga
Apr 1, 2012, 11:02 PM
I hope that we don't ever get to unbind our items. Keeps the rares out of the market so people wont complain about nothing to do. If they want to find the items themselves then they can purchase the Drop rate boost with Arks cash. And have a grand time.


Not to sound cynical or anything. Just don't want the community ruined like in PSU.

bACKWARDS THINKING. You would rather keep 4 weapon "X"s than make meseta or trade for something you want? Really?!? Or how about that rare weapon that you have no interest in keeping anymore and WANT to sell it and someone WANTS to buy it. Sounds like a win, win to me. Both people get what they want. This is a game. I don't wanna spend RM for a stupid drop rate that'll prolly still not net me what I'm hunting for.

Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

DragonForce
Apr 2, 2012, 12:20 AM
So basically you guys are bitching about the reward system? Sega should really take a lesson from Guild Wars 2's system. I'll find it and share it with you guys because there ARE ways where everyone wins.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHE8OZjIpt4

This is definitely better than killing an enemy and watching some leech take your loot.

NoiseHERO
Apr 2, 2012, 12:47 AM
So basically you guys are bitching about-

You're that guy with the PSU avatar that hates PSU. who wasn't even gonna play the game depending on how grinding might work.

You've lost all right to look down on other complainers!

DragonForce
Apr 2, 2012, 01:28 AM
Don't you have better things to do than start shit with me at two in the morning?

Ark22
Apr 2, 2012, 01:50 AM
Hey hey no need for foul language towards other. As for the reward system, let people do what they want. Besides I bet drop rates for extremely rare weapons are gonna be drastically low.....at least I pray they will be.

NoiseHERO
Apr 2, 2012, 02:06 AM
Hey hey no need for foul language towards other.

NOpe your policing is off, I'm not the one usin' foul language. dragon force is jus' mad cause I'm sayin' it like it is! >D

I still think not being able to trade rares is kind of silly.

It's like saying "why trade pokemon cards when you can just buy the boosterpacks yourself and feel more accomplished, trading is like cheating!"

People should be able to get whatever item they want, being able to trade and sell adds more possibilities and gameplay choices. It's no different than the "pay to win" argument. Who are you paying to win against?? So in this case, how is it cheap or "unfair" if a player aquires an item by working hard to earn money/something just as rare/selling things worth just as much to be able to get the item he desires.

Then you have to add in that better quality items are harder to buy or trade for. You don't just BUY a 50% ice 10/10 agito repca like nothing. The seller would give you hell before he/she lets it go that easily. And your other choices may as well be scrap rares. So yeah buying and trading has it's own challenge and the way I see it, could even be harder than just finding the weapon you want.

So I say the guy that bought or traded for that rare that you found after running a mission 100 times deserves just as much respect that he'd get for having the weapon, which would be NONE because nobody really cares what weapon you found if it doesn't mean them getting it from you.

Hell in that case, weapons being trade-able means you would get MORE attention for your gear, compared to no one giving a shit.

kyuuketsuki
Apr 2, 2012, 02:16 AM
bACKWARDS THINKING. You would rather keep 4 weapon "X"s than make meseta or trade for something you want? Really?!? Or how about that rare weapon that you have no interest in keeping anymore and WANT to sell it and someone WANTS to buy it. Sounds like a win, win to me. Both people get what they want. This is a game. I don't wanna spend RM for a stupid drop rate that'll prolly still not net me what I'm hunting for.
Nope, not a win-win. Bad for the long-term economy. Devalues the rarest items.

Not sure what the issue is, anyway. They can still be sold as long as they aren't equipped. So if you find a rare item you already have, you are still able to sell it. Also, this is only going to apply for the rarest items.

supersonix9
Apr 2, 2012, 02:19 AM
Yes....Special Weapons are back. One of the best parts of PSO.

NoiseHERO
Apr 2, 2012, 02:22 AM
It was kinda cool spitting lightning out of my attacks.

Hopefully gun's be shooting fireballs again or something.

But yeah edited my last troll post and added in an on-topic wall-of-text.

supersonix9
Apr 2, 2012, 02:22 AM
I still think not being able to trade rares is kind of silly.
I would disagree, I think it makes it more fun to show off what you’ve found; More bragging rights if you get something really good because they can't have it.

kyuuketsuki
Apr 2, 2012, 02:24 AM
シニック・ザ・ヘッジホッグ
The heck is "Shinic the Hedgehog"? o_0

supersonix9
Apr 2, 2012, 02:30 AM
The heck is "Shinic the Hedgehog"? o_0

Haha, I guess I typed Shi without noticing. Obviously it should read Sonic; thanks for pointing that out. Man, that's one hell of a spelling error.

NoiseHERO
Apr 2, 2012, 02:30 AM
I would disagree, I think it makes it more fun to show off what you’ve found; More bragging rights if you get something really good because they can't have it.

Like I said in my wall of text, most people won't really care after seeing it a couple seconds. Maybe at most you'll get "Wow must've been annoying grinding that one missions for that weapon!" Which really just translates into "Wow, you have a lot of free time. :\"

Trade-able weapons: You'll probably get so much attention for you super rare that some guy will be messaging you every other day saying they want your awesome rare weapon. You guys make it sound like it would be cheap to just *pop* trade success "Mine, not I'm sick of it and want my money back." But it's still more complicated than that.

I dunno what PSU's economy looks like right now. But how often are you going to see a 13-15 star weapon with perfect grinds and percents, that's ALSO priced to the point where "Anyone could just buy it effortlessly" (Let alone that kind of item existing in the player shop to begin with.) Nobody ever sells their best stuff for the same reason you guys don't want anyone to.

kyuuketsuki
Apr 2, 2012, 02:34 AM
I dunno what PSU's economy looks like right now. But how often are you going to see a 13-15 star weapon with perfect grinds and percents, that's ALSO priced to the point where "Anyone could just buy it effortlessly" (Let alone that kind of item existing in the player shop to begin with.) Nobody ever sells their best stuff for the same reason you guys don't want anyone to.
So... by this logic, it shouldn't matter that trading them won't be allowed, since no one will trade them anyway. Or am I missing something?

NoiseHERO
Apr 2, 2012, 02:43 AM
So... by this logic, it shouldn't matter that trading them won't be allowed, since no one will trade them anyway. Or am I missing something?

People only sell their "junk" rares, or items not as good as their best, or your best chance a decent spare. Then some people might want them just for the appearance of their character and not care about stats.

Or if you're trading obviously you'd want it to be a fair trade.

In this case- Well Sakai's team has already considered the issue and the way I see it, it's already been solved with rares being trade able as long as you don't equip the item.

Angelo
Apr 2, 2012, 03:18 AM
Not too excited about special weapons since my favorite effect, Berserk, could never be used as a % chance, as it was a situational and tactical ability.

Saotome Kaneda
Apr 2, 2012, 04:14 AM
Not too excited about special weapons since my favorite effect, Berserk, could never be used as a % chance, as it was a situational and tactical ability.

What are you talking about? There's no reason why it couldn't be used in the current system, in fact they could implement it in a few ways considering the options available.

Angelo
Apr 2, 2012, 04:30 AM
What are you talking about? There's no reason why it couldn't be used in the current system, in fact they could implement it in a few ways considering the options available.

I could see it becoming a hunter tree skill at some point, but I don't really see how it could be added to a weapon.

The current system adds special effects through chance per strike, and isn't actually activated... unless I missed something. If I'm wrong, I'd really like to be.

Hucast-Kireek
Apr 2, 2012, 04:43 AM
Ha! Everyone will want my card! heheh

Merumeru
Apr 2, 2012, 08:24 AM
I don't fully understand this line of thinking. If I spend 1,000 hours searching for a rare item that I really want and may NEVER find, I should be able to buy it w/hard earned meseta regardless of binding. Someone gets lucky and finds two....I will be fine forking over 2M meseta. Some drop rates are ridiculous. They need to allow us to unbind at some point. My $.02XD Maybe it's because I'm used to rares actually being treated like rares, and not just 'Items I can't afford to get yet' XP drop rates do suck, but some of those rare items are made to reward the people who suffer through the crappy drop rates OR get lucky XD like Kyuu said:


Nope, not a win-win. Bad for the long-term economy. Devalues the rarest items.

but anyway, yeah, that's just my argument for bind-on-pickup, which I'm very familiar with in MMOS with instances; BUT from what I'm reading in this thread, it seems things are bind-on-equip, not on drop, so yeah, completely different story XP my bad for making assumptions


*slowly backs away* I'm going to be extra careful what I put on my partner card for you...
I'll show you mine if you show me yours <3

Endykins
Apr 2, 2012, 08:45 AM
Oh dear.

Angelo
Apr 2, 2012, 09:02 AM
I liked the idea of the marketplace because it benefits those without luck to work towards something with a goal in mind.

Maybe it just sounds good because I am a notoriously unlucky guy.

r00tabaga
Apr 2, 2012, 10:05 AM
This.

I don't see any difference in working to save up as much meseta as I can to buy something I really want instead of spamming the same level over and over again. I just don't get the point of binding. You can't trade or sell cuz you USED it? But you can if you haven't? Most of the shit I'd sell or trade will be good stuff I've used that I will level away from!

Aiex
Apr 2, 2012, 10:10 AM
They said that only exceptionally rare items will be bind-on-equip. Any item that you can "level away from" won't qualify and will almost certainly be tradable.

r00tabaga
Apr 2, 2012, 10:22 AM
Wasn't sure of that part. I'm still playing Portable 2 and still can't believe that only C and B rank weapons are tradeable.
So u still can sell uber rares as long as it's not equipped right? Sux still for peole who try out something then decide they don't like it. Value is immediately gone.

Ark22
Apr 2, 2012, 12:14 PM
Lol I slept through my class and I'm tired plus I have a question because I don't feel like reading a faqs.

Are mags bound to you? If not, player markets could just sell rare mags. And boy would they make a lot of money.

r00tabaga
Apr 2, 2012, 04:22 PM
Lol I slept through my class and I'm tired plus I have a question because I don't feel like reading a faqs.

Are mags bound to you? If not, player markets could just sell rare mags. And boy would they make a lot of money.

I doubt they will be tradeable. I can almost gaurantee it. I think we should be able to sell or trade 'em.

Saotome Kaneda
Apr 2, 2012, 04:52 PM
I'm still playing Portable 2 and still can't believe that only C and B rank weapons are tradeable.

Client side saving will ensure that anything of actual worth would be locked down because nothing is keeping me from making a backup of my save locally and overwriting any "progress" I make.

You can say that YOU won't do it, but what's stopping the other guy from trading his 60%:ground: Psycho Wand infinitely for a bunch of top tier rares?

Hopefully there will be a solution that appeases everyone, but the community's past has shown that if there is an exploit, it WILL get abused, and no amount of "but I'm legit, I won't do it" will prevent the economy from getting damaged.

NoiseHERO
Apr 2, 2012, 04:55 PM
Weren't they tradeable in PSU?

I can trade a pokemon something that has a life and soul and attachment to it's owner/friend/master. But I can't sell a tiny robot that you could probably find in a box filled with cheap toys in a chinatowni dumpster?! D:

But meh, I don't care much if mags are trade-able or not.



@ saotome & r00tabaga: This game not having an offline mode with client sided saving, OR a portable game makes that a completely different situation.

But seeing as how that game got bombarded with hackers that could modify drops, it kind of ruined the point. As well it also saved whenever you used the trade machine, so in general it still only affect non-cheaters. So I mostly found not being able to trade in that game annoying either way.

Rizen
Apr 2, 2012, 05:35 PM
I'll show you mine if you show me yours <3
Oooooh My!



But seeing as how that game got bombarded with hackers that could modify drops, it kind of ruined the point. As well it also saved whenever you used the trade machine, so in general it still only affect non-cheaters. So I mostly found not being able to trade in that game annoying either way.
No MMO has really found a perfect solution to dealing with market cheaters. Best way to not deal with it is to not have trade at all...which is a bad idea and lazy management of a game. No company wants to have dedicated people watching the market. As much as players think GMs can fix things, there isn't much they can do. I can go on for ages about it...but I will save that for another time.

NoiseHERO
Apr 2, 2012, 05:40 PM
Oooooh My!


No MMO has really found a perfect solution to dealing with market cheaters. Best way to not deal with it is to not have trade at all...which is a bad idea and lazy management of a game. No company wants to have dedicated people watching the market. As much as players think GMs can fix things, there isn't much they can do. I can go on for ages about it...but I will save that for another time.

Yeah technology can be limitless sometimes, there is almost always a way to work around something or mod it to your liking, in the end it's all just a bunch of data and electricity.

The real trick is to make it so hard and annoying for a hacker to get through to something that they wouldn't even want to bother, not a lot of them at least. But that's gotta to be way harder to pull off... on a PSP at least. Or at least the way SEGA did it for PSP2, obviously didn't work at all.

Dark Emerald EXE
Apr 2, 2012, 05:47 PM
From having my time on FFXI I can't help but wonder how long it'll be until someones attempts to make a software add-on to PSO2

Kind of like ApRadar and Windower on FFXI.....they wasn't hacking since all the information was show was just stuff that was already in game anyway... (Like seeing people's TP and such)
It was still illegal based on game policy but the software by themselves wasn't hacking....(plug-ins on the otherhand just vary on what the developer made it do)

ForceOfBrokenGlass
Apr 2, 2012, 06:46 PM
No MMO has really found a perfect solution to dealing with market cheaters. Best way to not deal with it is to not have trade at all...which is a bad idea and lazy management of a game. No company wants to have dedicated people watching the market. As much as players think GMs can fix things, there isn't much they can do. I can go on for ages about it...but I will save that for another time.

I dunno, Monster Hunter has seen little impediment to its popularity despite having no player controlled market to speak of. Only common consumables and supplies are tradeable in that game and it really only comes into play if someone didn't bring enough potions.

Rizen
Apr 2, 2012, 07:06 PM
I dunno, Monster Hunter has seen little impediment to its popularity despite having no player controlled market to speak of. Only common consumables and supplies are tradeable in that game and it really only comes into play if someone didn't bring enough potions.
Monster Hunter is one of the few exceptions to this. The whole game is based off the hunt rather than the trade. It is based around hunting and carving monsters their parts and crafting new armors, weapons, and items. People playing Monster Hunter understand the importance of you get what you hunt for and you earn what you work for.

Unfortunately, the Phantasy Star series isn't really set up to be in this format. Although you can synth your weapons, armors, and items, it's more based off hunting for rares. One can argue it is the same concept, but Monster Hunter did a much better job basing a game around it.

DragonForce
Apr 2, 2012, 07:18 PM
No MMO has really found a perfect solution to dealing with market cheaters.

You should probably check out Guild Wars 2.

Rizen
Apr 2, 2012, 07:21 PM
You should probably check out Guild Wars 2.
I'm a huge Guild Wars fan and eagerly waiting for Guild Wars 2 to come out.

That being said, what they plan to do isn't any different from what other MMOs have already done. I believe EVE online is one that openly allowed players to trade IRL currency with ingame currency via a "token" system. Other MMOs have similar forms of trade between players, but it is still not a perfect solution. There are still many flaws to the theory.

Saotome Kaneda
Apr 2, 2012, 08:08 PM
Kind of like ApRadar and Windower on FFXI.....they wasn't hacking since all the information was show was just stuff that was already in game anyway... (Like seeing people's TP and such)
It was still illegal based on game policy but the software by themselves wasn't hacking....(plug-ins on the otherhand just vary on what the developer made it do)

It depends on what they actually do. Honestly not many tools are needed to help with PSO, during the heyday of V2 and Ep 1/2 the most that people had made were mag feeding planners. With PSOBB came bank listers, weapon/item kill counters, and even inventory viewers, but none of them were necessary for the total experience.

Shadownami92
Apr 2, 2012, 08:12 PM
Would be fun if people could add their own client side visual changes. I mean it probably wouldn't be possible, but it would be lots of fun to have something like a blood puddle mod that would give an updated but similar look to the blood effects of PSO.

Like I said though I don't think that would really be possible, at least not without doing something illegal and/or going straight into the game's code. And if it's mostly server side it wouldn't really be possible. It's fun to dream though...

Recon Tactical
Apr 2, 2012, 08:47 PM
Honestly, the shop area reminds me of PSO Episode III and the GUARDIANS Colony. Looks pretty good. Also I'm pleased by the existence of the closed Beta. That means the open Beta will be right around the corner! ... Right?

Dark Emerald EXE
Apr 2, 2012, 09:11 PM
It depends on what they actually do. Honestly not many tools are needed to help with PSO, during the heyday of V2 and Ep 1/2 the most that people had made were mag feeding planners. With PSOBB came bank listers, weapon/item kill counters, and even inventory viewers, but none of them were necessary for the total experience.
Which is one of the aspect I love PSO,PSU. The gaming style is so simple yet fun. in PSO you can generally grasp the entire game (yet still have other stuff to do) ffxi on the other hand........another story....and yea they differenty style RPGs but still -.-

Miyoko
Apr 3, 2012, 06:35 AM
I dunno, Monster Hunter has seen little impediment to its popularity despite having no player controlled market to speak of. Only common consumables and supplies are tradeable in that game and it really only comes into play if someone didn't bring enough potions.

The reason it works in Monster Hunter is because there are virtually no weapon drops. It's all ingredients, and all weapons use the same ingredients. This is exactly why it works in MH, but the no trading thing failed in PSP2. Unfortunately, if PSO2 uses pre-made drops, then this same idea won't work.

Mike
Apr 3, 2012, 07:30 AM
but the no trading thing failed in PSP2.

It worked out just fine. In a game where it was perfectly possible to get everything single thing in the game with one character, there wasn't a need to trade.

As for PSO2, there were no material drops in either alpha and the lack of anything similar in any of the closed beta info points to a lack of such in the full version.

CelestialBlade
Apr 3, 2012, 08:11 AM
I loved PSP2's system myself. It made you earn your own stuff; the only thing I would change would be the drop tables themselves. I had to play Vanguard on Military Subway S to get Hit Bullets better than 20 for my Ranger when Vabguard can't even use Bullets past 20? Lame.

I'm fine with player shops but only as long as Meseta retains some semblance of value. This means preventing economy-destroying Meseta hacks, or we end up with the completely worthless Meseta of PSU and even the smallest things will run you several mil.

r00tabaga
Apr 3, 2012, 09:35 AM
It worked out just fine. In a game where it was perfectly possible to get everything single thing in the game with one character, there wasn't a need to trade.

As for PSO2, there were no material drops in either alpha and the lack of anything similar in any of the closed beta info points to a lack of such in the full version.

There's just something about trading in RPGs that I really enjoy. In Portable 2, casual gamers don't have time to grind out 1,000 hrs to find a rare weapon when they should've allowed trading. I know it was to limit cheating and all that but part of PSOs charm was dropping shot for others. "I got 2 of these, what do U got?"

Angelo
Apr 3, 2012, 10:02 AM
I really missed trading in PsPo2.

I played with my ex-wife and we really liked being able to 'keep an eye out' for items that one another would want in PSO1, and were bummed when we couldn't in PsPo2.

r00tabaga
Apr 3, 2012, 10:17 AM
I really missed trading in PsPo2.

I played with my ex-wife and we really liked being able to 'keep an eye out' for items that one another would want in PSO1, and were bummed when we couldn't in PsPo2.

So jealous. Your WIFE played Phantasy Star with you???? FMyLife.

LOL- my wife hates it so

Enforcer MKV
Apr 3, 2012, 11:18 AM
Part of the fun for me was (in PSU, at least.) Playing a really difficult mission and someone suddenly yelling that they didn't have any PP and were out of photon charges, and me frantically dropping a few on the ground and calling out to him, and covering him with my rifle. It honestly sounds like things like this won't happen in this game, so I'm kinda bummed.

Then again, this isn't PSU, so....guess that's a moot point. Here's hoping everything goes well, though.

r00tabaga
Apr 3, 2012, 11:23 AM
That was one of my most hated parts of PSU.

Shadownami92
Apr 3, 2012, 04:10 PM
When I play PSO there are a similar sorts of instances that would happen with Moon Atomizers, where only one person wouldn't get 1 hit killed by a boss, so everyone dropped their moon atomizers before they would die so he could heal. Yep, not sure if I really enjoyed those battles to be honest.