Question about Techniques

[Shade_Koopa]

I understand that Techniques are a force's best friends, but will Hunters and Rangers be able to cast Techniques as well and not just HU/RA PA?

[Ark22]

Yeah, look at some of the Alpha vids.

[Shade_Koopa]

Could you like me to one that does show? I can't seem to find the right vid.

[Spellbinder]

I actually don't recall seeing a hunter or ranger using techniques when playing the alpha. :o

[r00tabaga]

I saw Resta a few times.

Edit: I think.

[Shade_Koopa]

So...no one knows if Hunter or Rangers will be able to techniques. If someone could please link me to the video, that would be greatly appreciated.

[•Col•]

Yeah, look at some of the Alpha vids.

Completely wrong.

No, Hunters/Rangers currently can't cast Techniques. Maybe they'll be able to in the full game, but they weren't able to in either of the two Alpha tests, and they most likely won't be able to in the Beta. I PLAYED during the Alpha test and have read pretty much every bit of info about this game. Don't listen to Ark22.

To the OP... Read the stickied thread before making so many new ones just to ask a question... D:

EDIT: Once again, from the stickied thread....


IId. TECHNIQUES(SPELLS)/PHOTON ARTS:

Disks are used to learn photon arts and techniques
Disks have certain learning requirements, such as Stat requirements
Unlike PSU, there will not be a limit on the number of PAs or techs you can learn
You will be able to return a learned Photon Art/Technique back into disk form
Low-level disks can be bought at shops
High-level disks can be obtained as enemy drop
For Melee and Gun type weapons, you may link up to 3 PAs to the weapon.
For Melee weapons, your the PAs you link to a weapon switch in sequential order through a combo. So if you use your first PA, the PA button changes to the 2nd PA, and if you use your 2nd PA your PA button changes to your 3rd PA equipped. Simply rearranging the PAs linked to your weapon will allow you to create your own custom combos!
For Ranged weapons, you may use any 3 of the PAs you have equipped at any time. For example, one PA button would fire a strong piercing bullet. Another PA button would shoot a grenade. Meanwhile, the third PA button would release a burst of fully automatic shots at once.
You can set different melee photon arts to the three parts of a combo.
Combined melee PAs will let you pull of three-part combos. For example, Tornado Break to Spinning Break to Gravity Break. Also, you can perform normal attacks between all of those.
Techniques are chargeable, and may be cast while in the air. When charging a technic, you slowly walk around.
Techniques are able to be cast and charged either from the equipped Rod, or from the Subpallete
Techniques cost PP to cast, but don't require any additional PP when they are charged
Currently, Forces are the only ones capable of casting and charging technics
A Technique's power, range and effect change when charged
Known Techniques/Spells:
-Foie- Fireball spell. Charged version creates a much larger fireball and may set enemies on fire.
-Resta- Healing spell. Charged version creates a ring around caster that heals all teammates inside of it.
-Zonde- Lightning bolt spell. Charged version creates much larger lightning bolt and stuns enemies.
-Razonde- AoE lightning spell, hitting all enemies around caster. Charged version creates a wider range attack.
-Barta- Linear-moving ice spell. Charged version creates a much larger wave which may freeze enemies.

[Shade_Koopa]

Completely wrong.

No, Hunters/Rangers currently can't cast Techniques. Maybe they'll be able to in the full game, but they weren't able to in either of the two Alpha tests, and they most likely won't be able to in the Beta. I PLAYED during the Alpha test and have read pretty much every bit of info about this game. Don't listen to Ark22.

To the OP... Read the stickied thread before making so many new ones just to ask a question... D:

EDIT: Once again, from the stickied thread....

So only forces can use Techniques? I mean, PSO and PSO:BB techniques were used by all, with forces having the higher levels. Are you saying, only forces are able to use techniques in PSO 2? Will that change when the game is released?

[Ark22]

I could have sworn I seen a Hunewmearl casting Foie in Alpha 2. Oh well still looks beast. But that would make the Forces sorta OP since they got the best of EVERY world. But when you can sub class that will fix it.

[r00tabaga]

Shade: He highlighted it for you.

[•Col•]

So only forces can use Techniques? I mean, PSO and PSO:BB techniques were used by all, with forces having the higher levels. Are you saying, only forces are able to use techniques in PSO 2? Will that change when the game is released?

Dude.... Did you even read what I JUST posted? D:

Yes, Forces are the only ones who can use techniques. It is possible it will change in the final game. My guess is that it will be somehow involved with the subclasses in the game(as in, if you choose a certain subclass, you'll be able to use techniques as a Hunter/Ranger). But we really can't know for sure now.

[Shade_Koopa]

I could have sworn I seen a Hunewmearl casting Foie in Alpha 2. Oh well still looks beast. But that would make the Forces sorta OP since they got the best of EVERY world. But when you can sub class that will fix it.

Oh, so they'll add sub classes/branches like PSU/PSPortable/2/Infinity did? If that's the case, then I would understand why forces are the only ones able to use techniques cause of the whole cane/wand/rod thing and such.

[Ark22]

Most likely if you are a force you can leveled up to 30, but if a sub class it will be halved to 15.

[•Col•]

Most likely if you are a force you can leveled up to 30, but if a sub class it will be halved to 15.

Stop pulling this information out of your ass. :/ He's making this stuff up. We currently aren't even positive that subclasses will BE in the game.

We have some evidence to suggest there will be, but we know pretty much NOTHING about them.

[Spellbinder]

If I may ask, where was it cited in Japanese that there would be sub classes? Not saying it isn't true since that information has been around the forums for a long time, but I'm just curious to know if it was in the official PSO2 blog or perhaps in a magazine article.


Stop pulling this information out of your ass. :/ He's making this stuff up. We currently aren't even positive that subclasses will BE in the game.

We have some evidence to suggest there will be, but we know pretty much NOTHING about them.

And what this guy said, please try not to spread information as if its fact.

[Mike]

It showed up in a screenshot. I don't have it handy at the moment though.

[Ark22]

Whoa whoa, speculations calm down, notice the most likely at the beginning. I guessing if they go back to PSO standards with the sub classes. 15 was the max for some while others could go to 20. And sub-classes was announced awhile ago. You made the faqs you should know!!!

[Dinosaur]

Colaya don't even bother with these threads. You've posted a wonderful topic that already has all the information and they can't even bother to read it even when it is hand-fed to them.

[Spellbinder]

Whoa whoa, speculations calm down, notice the most likely at the beginning. I guessing if they go back to PSO standards with the sub classes. 15 was the max for some while others could go to 20. And sub-classes was announced awhile ago. You made the faqs you should know!!!

You say most likely yes, but when a friend of a friend of a cousin of a friend repeats your information as it's passed on it may go from "most likely" to "most definitely".

[Ark22]

I didn't mean to offend with a speculation, just voicing an opinion.

But honestly, what I (which is not true and do not take it as fact) think how the techs will go is, Forces will learn all the way while subs will be halved. I mean common pretty obvious, I mean if you have a Hunter sub classed as a Force and could use level 30 techs, might as well be a Hunter sub classed with Force, no balance what so ever.

[•Col•]

It showed up in a screenshot. I don't have it handy at the moment though.

Here it is:

Look in the upper left hand corner of the box:
[spoiler-box]
http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Class-Skill-Tree.jpg[/spoiler-box]



Zoomed in:[spoiler-box]
http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Class-skill-tree-3-300x94.jpg[/spoiler-box]


メインクラス = Main Class (You can see it's currently set as Hunter, which is level 15)

サブクラス = Subclass (Isn't set. However, since there is a category for subclass obviously means there are going to be some available to choose from. At least, that is as long as they don't change their minds between the Alpha and final release of the game.)



There's also some information revealed from datamining the PSO2 alpha client suggesting there will be subclasses. But once again, we know nothing about them or how they'll work.

[Spellbinder]

Here it is:

Look in the upper left hand corner of the box:
[spoiler-box]
http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Class-Skill-Tree.jpg[/spoiler-box]



Zoomed in:[spoiler-box]
http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Class-skill-tree-3-300x94.jpg[/spoiler-box]


メインクラス = Main Class (You can see it's currently set as Hunter, which is level 15)

サブクラス = Subclass (Isn't set. However, since there is a category for subclass obviously means there are going to be some available to choose from. At least, that is as long as they don't change their minds between the Alpha and final release of the game.)



There's also some information revealed from datamining the PSO2 alpha client suggesting there will be subclasses. But once again, we know nothing about them or how they'll work.

Thanks :) I've been reading all the Japanese stuff I can get my hands on to keep updated. Dunno how that slipped past me.

[Ark22]

Speculating is fun, what do you think they will do? I mean it falls under techniques, so we can question it.

And I do not in fact pull stuff out of my ass, unless it's a deadline essay for my class.

That is all, besides that, you give excellent information.

[Omega-z]

Oh, •Col• the sticky forgot to add-in Anti as part of the known spells section.

Have a pic of it in-game if you need proof, Not sure if you need it tho.:-?

[Saotome Kaneda]

Oh, •Col• the sticky forgot to add-in Anti as part of the known spells section.

Have a pic of it in-game if you need proof, Not sure if you need it tho.:-?

Regardless, Anti, Shifta, Deband, Gifoie, Gibarta, and what appears to be PSPo2I's Nagrants (or maybe it's yet another rethinking of Grants?) have been spied in one way or another from the closed beta promo footage(particularly the vid Mike has in the 3/30 thread).

[•Col•]

According to this (http://bumped.org/psublog/phantasy-star-online-2-global-concerns-alpha-test-status-report/), Anti is a consumable item now... Although I do VAGUELY recall there being 2 light techniques in the Alpha... But I didn't play Force much, so I don't really remember. Anyone else know if Anti was a spell? If so, what did the charged version of it do?

And I know we've seen some other spells. Just wanted to wait till we got the names of them and have seen both the charged/uncharged versions of them before I add them to the info. thread. They'll most likely be added into the Beta, which is only a few weeks away. I'll add them to the thread then.

[kyuuketsuki]

There was definitely an Anti technique in the alpha2, I found and used it on my FO. I'm not sure if my recollection is correct, but I believe it only affected you uncharged, and charged it was an AoE that affected your party. Or it may have just been a smaller AoE vs. a larger AoE.

As far as Anti being a consumable item... are you just talking about Sol Atomizers? o_0

[Saotome Kaneda]

According to this (http://bumped.org/psublog/phantasy-star-online-2-global-concerns-alpha-test-status-report/), Anti is a consumable item now... Although I do VAGUELY recall there being 2 light techniques in the Alpha... But I didn't play Force much, so I don't really remember. Anyone else know if Anti was a spell? If so, what did the charged version of it do?

I think it was listed there because it was a drop(and not exactly common). It functions similarly to Resta, much like how kyuuketsuki mentioned. Uncharged only affects you, charged affects those nearby. I dunno what levels heal what ailments because by the time I actually got Anti I was in the habit of popping Sols anyway. I know that Burn never got healed until I got Lv3 Anti though.

[Spellbinder]

I played in the Alpha as a force and can tell you I personally used Anti several times.

[Shadownami92]

I don't see why they would make Anti a consumable item when the Sol Atomizer already did that in older games. Wouldn't make sense the rename it that way.

[moorebounce]

IMO I don't think androids should be able to use techs period subclass or not. I also don't want everybody capable of doing everything either. The whole point is to match players with different skill sets to work together as a team.

[Omega-z]

moorebounce If they had done that then they would need to do the other two races as well and not have them be able to use one class just to be fair. That would be to much fuss over it and not a step forward, To be fair Cast had some form or another of a Tech like ability thru out the Franchise. That was a big factor in PSO that they needed back then, a weaker version yes but needed still. Trap's were no way a repacement to them at all. Most had a hard time impalementing it in there game play and lasted so short to not even use them at all. Even in PSU Trap's are pretty sucky except on PT for it's EX version's. But in PSO2 there modified to be a Ranger Add-on Skill as Stun Grenade's...etc. Where they should be and have better use in game play. I think Cast's are fine where they are there's no need to change them for a flaw in an older game where they wanted to fix back then.

[kyuuketsuki]

IMO I don't think androids should be able to use techs period subclass or not.
Well, since that'd make the FOcast/caseal completely worthless, I don't think that's feasible.

[Dinosaur]

Sol Autoizers were definitely in the game, too. I had it hotkeyed.

[Mike]

I played in the Alpha as a force and can tell you I personally used Anti several times.


Sol Autoizers were definitely in the game, too. I had it hotkeyed.

Laser traps.

[Shadownami92]

IMO I don't think androids should be able to use techs period subclass or not. I also don't want everybody capable of doing everything either. The whole point is to match players with different skill sets to work together as a team.



Personally I don't have a big problem with Casts using techs. I just feel like if they can cast techs they should LOOK like they were built to be able to cast them. I think they achieved this with the option to make a cast like in the Focast concept art. It wasn't the biggest annoyance, but lots of times I felt like it was hard to think of PSU's casts as being able to use techs just because they looked so big and bulky like they were built to just swing giant swords and guns. To be honest I'm hoping there will be more Cast parts that have looks that cater to the different types of classes that Casts can be.

[Kent]

I personally think it makes for a much more interesting gameplay dynamic if Androids were unable to use techniques, but could use traps and other equipment instead. I mean, it worked really well in PSO (well, after they implemented this - back on the Dreamcast, Androids were literally a hindrance to your party, but realistically-speaking, the same could be said for any character that wasn't a HUnewearl, or to a lesser extent, a HUmar).

Making them unable to use techniques, but able to use special abilities and equipment (not "equipment" in the sense of sabers and frames and whatnot - I mean ordinance like traps, or chest blasters or bit systems, etc., things that feel uniquely "robotic" in comparison to techniques) with different effects from what techniques offer, on top of statistical differences, could really make one's choice of character race much more interesting, as well as diversify gameplay with other people.

Of course, the entire team behind the Phantasy Star games seems to have been trending toward racial homogeneity since PSU, so it's probably not something that's going to happen... It's pretty unfortunate, really.

[Shadownami92]

I don't think its more that they are trying to move towards race homogeny as much as just balance and the amount of work. I prefer some more focused gameplay that is polished rather than too many differences without as much polish due to time and work constraints.

I mean, I could see Focasts being less magic and more about heavy elemental damage traps and stuff, but I think I prefer the idea of traps being more of a Ranger focus rather than a cast focus. I did enjoy the racial differences in PSO, but it did make some race/class combinations better than others. Such as all casts being able to see traps. I actually liked Casts being the only ones to use traps as a sort of add on due to not being able to cast magic.

In a sense it did make the game have a sort of dynamic, like if you didn't know the pause trick you could have a Cast be all like "I'll go ahead and remove the traps." And me and my friend always used my Force stills combined with his traps to rip apart Ultimate Ruins, well timed casting, freeze, traps, etc...

In short, I feel like a totally different system for Casts would be a lot of work and take a lot of time, but some sort of smaller advantage that would mesh with already existent gameplay mechanics could work for the racial differences. Such as how newmans had their TP regen and Casts had their health regen.

I'm cool with FoCasts since I feel like a Cast built specifically to cast techs would make sense. But if they wanted to make it so Casts couldn't use techs then I could see them having FoCast specialized traps that could give a different dynamic to the way that they would play out. However I don't think chest blasters and the like would really work. Another idea would for them to have their own unit things that would work similar to Chaos Sorcerers (where they would cast magic through them.) But that could cause nobody to want to play as one because it would make the act of casting techs too complicated.

[Omega-z]

actually, Tech's/Technic's are Mechanical devices in nature as stored info on a disc and are excluded through the body either by the Nano-transformer or the Weapon it's self. They are not Organic based spell's like in the Classic's which require a lot of mental power to use.

As for trap they didn't feel right as a Cast only Add-on and didn't give them much help if any at all PSO was imbalanced do to it and Human's where the best race for most things.
If you real look at the Cast from PSO then look at PSU the closes Race is actually Beast and not Cast. Since Beast Nano Blasts are similar to PSO Cast Trap's. Both are limited in use the Normal Blast trap is strong at first but after Hard mode there Lackluster same as the Red Nanoblast, Confuse trap's are fun at first but not recommend other then a get out of jail card and on higher Level's a handgun with Confusion would be better and safer to use, That how Blue bast for beast is a little useful but what the point of it. Freeze Trap's Now these are useful to a point. There damage isn't great but the SE is and can stop foe's on spot but has weaknesses the SE is shorter then other Freeze SE's and you have only so many to use, It's like the Purple Blast for Beast's it's the best but it's shorter and more limited in use. And then you had Slow trap's which was in the game but not playable in normal play at all, the same as the Yellow Blast it was in the game but not very usable to the point of not realizing it was there to use.
Now if we take a look at there stat's Cast and Beast Have same in HP, ATP, DEF ( base off the three races of PSO and not the four in PSU ), STA. The MST & TP if Cast were able to have them they would be 3rd weakest in use with the same stat's as the Beast race. Now ATA, EVP where more or less for Balance in PSU to change those for the cast's of PSO, But not buy much in EVP since Hucaseal had very good EVP in PSO.
So one could say PSO cast's are like PSU Beast's by Add-on and stat's for the most part and we all known how that turned out. like Kent said "back on the Dreamcast (or other version's ), Androids were literally a hindrance to your party". playing online most would run with Ramarl with Frost Queen, Fonewearl and Humar's since they would be better to use by the time you got in Ult.
Reason for that is Cast's are super squishy to tech's at that Time since Sega goofed up but the "0" stat suck hard since there was no Def to Tech's and oh the Resistance's are for SE's for Cast's since the +% did nothing to help Because +% to "0" is still "0", that the Psychical Def is not much higher then a Human. Trap's are poorly designed in there use and not very helpful in combat except for a few times. Cast couldn't have rasta add to there HP form a Force or Etc. since they where not considered organic. And have poor Health Healing. So they added in Heal regain and the immune to poison and Paralysis. Heal regain is nice but at higher Level's can slow a team down since the Cast has to Stand still for it to work and can't move and play a more hit and run tactic and can't use the Mates since you would need those for the Boss. At Best PSO Cast's are Melee/Range Mid-Glass Canon's since they have good Psychical Def and ATP but everything else is not so good.

[Alisha]

hu/ra not being able to cast techs makes humans a worthless race =/

[r00tabaga]

hu/ra not being able to cast techs makes humans a worthless race =/

You are racist.

[moorebounce]

If your character is 100% android (all nuts and bolts) you shouldn't be able to use techs IMO. Yeah you can use weapons with element/tech specials and I wouldn't mind that. Now if your character is a Cyborg (w/ some percentage of organic matter with at least a brain) I feel you can use techs but at a limited capacity.

As far as traps are concerned I used them all the time with my RAcasel and HUcast. I used confuse and freeze traps all the time and I can't help it if people were too short sighted to use them. I'm the master at using traps. You had to learn how to use them going solo in ultimate.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

I agree with this sentiment.

the cool thing about going robot was how you traded off the ability to use techs which was huge, but you gained significant boosts in stats. it was an interesting concept.

[moorebounce]

I agree with this sentiment.

the cool thing about going robot was how you traded off the ability to use techs which was huge, but you gained significant boosts in stats. it was an interesting concept.

Thank you.

I understand with all these classes and races it would be hard to make them all totally unique but what fun is that if everybody can do everything. Why would I play as a HUcast if I could do all the same things as a FOmar and vise versa?

[Kent]

You are racist.
She's not wrong though - the entire point of humans in Phantasy Star games, as well as basically anything sci-fi or fantasy out there, is their versatility.

The entire point of playing Hunters and Rangers as non-android characters was the ability to use techniques alongside them. It's the same problem as if you were unable to use melee attacks or ranged weapons as a Force - there would be no point in playing anything other than a Newman (this is a huge contributing factor as to why PSU's technique-binding system was terrible).

Likewise, it also makes playing Human or Ranger Newmen pointless, because Androids are inherently better at playing those types purely, and the specific advantage to playing as an organic race is their ability to not play the type purely.

[Omega-z]

Tech's/Technic's are Mechanical devices in nature as stored info on a disc and are excluded through the body either by the Nano-transformer or the Weapon it's self. They are not Organic based spell's like in the Classic's( mostly Human only .. ie Espar's) which require a lot of mental power to use. There is no reason why Cast's can't use or have them at all.

Anyway PSO2 owned's PSO and have things where they need to be. out with the old and in with the new.

[kyuuketsuki]

hu/ra not being able to cast techs makes humans a worthless race =/
Sure. But, sub-classes. Can only speculate on the exact mechanics, of course, but it's safe to assume it will somehow mix things up.

Also, it only makes humans worthless if they design it that way. It's perfectly feasible for them to design it so that CASTs aren't superior in every useful stat besides (the) technic-related one(s).

[Kent]

Tech's/Technic's are Mechanical devices in nature as stored info on a disc and are excluded through the body either by the Nano-transformer or the Weapon it's self. They are not Organic based spell's like in the Classic's( mostly Human only .. ie Espar's) which require a lot of mental power to use. There is no reason why Cast's can't use or have them at all.
Never played PSO, huh?

Disks are a logical evolution of scrolls (a portable medium of containing data of some sort). Scrolls are generic fantasy item #847, and typically contain spells. Spells don't exist in such common usage in the Phantasy Star series (as "magic" is something else entirely), so they're techniques instead.

Techniques are not mechanical in nature - they're actually expressly biological in nature, thus why Androids could not use them in PSO: They require mental power to use, something that Androids naturally do not have, due to being completely artificial, inorganic beings.

Fully-justified in-universe as far as it ever needs to be. Regardless of that, concerns for the betterment of gameplay trump story concerns by default (anyone who wants to argue that is objectively wrong and has no business giving opinions on games) - so they could justify it by saying that you have to eat meat to cast techniques if they wanted, and it'd still be just fine.

...Seriously though, it's more interesting if you don't make abilities so generic, to give people a reason for their choice of character. That's one of the most basic principles of game design: If you're going to give a character a choice, make it meaningful and interesting. Obvious choices or meaningless choices aren't interesting, nor are they fun at all - they're little more than a blatant sign of weak design.

[Omega-z]

I play/ed a lot of PSO, and that's incorrect and will leave it to that since there's no point in arguing about this. What Matter's is PSO2 and Sega's future idea's, agree?

[Rizen]

PSO2 =/= PSO, PSU, or any other Phantasy Star series.

Pointless argument.

[Omega-z]

I totally Agree Rizen

[Dinosaur]

I'm planning on playing a FOcaseal with a ranged-based MAG. I want to throw cards; all of the cards.

[Kent]

I play/ed a lot of PSO, and that's incorrect and will leave it to that since there's no point in arguing about this. What Matter's is PSO2 and Sega's future idea's, agree?
Agreed, but it doesn't make you any less wrong.

[condiments]

Anyways, its been a trend with most online games to marginalize racial differences so players have more freedom in the way they can customize the looks of their characters. Substantial differences between races makes race choice more meaningful, but it also encourages a fair bit of min-maxing in a online environment. While PSO had a interesting dynamic between the casts and organics, I'm not entirely saddened to see it go as long as there are still plenty of options to shape my character how I see fit through other features.

[kyuuketsuki]

I play/ed a lot of PSO, and that's incorrect and will leave it to that since there's no point in arguing about this.
Uh, I played a lot of PSO and Kent is correct. Logic check: why wouldn't CASTs have been able to use techniques if they were simply "mechanical"?

Yeah yeah yeah, PSO2 is not PSO or PSU and blah blah. We know.

[Omega-z]

Well to each there own then.