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View Full Version : Priming your (new) computer for PSO2



Mitz
Apr 11, 2012, 04:00 AM
[Spoiler-box]Changelog:
4/11 Minor edits(Like a changelog)
4/11 Added new premium case supplier
4/11 Created[/Spoiler-box]

Hello,

In an effort to keep the benchmark and "Will my computer run this" thread more organized and on-topic, I made this topic to do with all the questions that are spawning in both topics. You can refer your questions on how to increase performance, see what you can upgrade and get general help with most of your hardware or perhaps software-related issues.

In time, I suppose this thread can definitely be moved to another forum(Maybe tech support but it just applies to PSU) but I feel that most of the computer-related talk is currently in the PSO2 forum.

How we can help you:

Help you with a new computer build
Give you advice on what parts to purchase to upgrade your existing computer
Give general information about hardware-related questions
Basically everything the "Will my computer handle this" thread isn't intended to help you with, except claiming responsibility. We won't do that.

How you can help:

Add relevant information to the OP
Be supportive and patient with people who aren't experienced with computers and give them good advice
Engage in active discussion, if you wish

If you want a good introduction or refresher course on what's currently good in the market today, and if you want us to help you set up a build then keep reading.
The information below is blatantly stolen from the following teamliquid thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=137554
All credit belongs to the original poster and whomever he/she credited. Save minor edits, I did not write this myself.

Want a list of parts/Build?
Important questions you should ask yourself
[Spoiler-box]

If you request a build, please answer these questions. We will spend as much effort on your build as you spend on your answers to these questions! I urge people to abstain from providing builds unless all the questions are answered.

What is your budget?

This should be an obvious one, you should determine a price range that best describes how much you want to spend on your build. It makes it easier for people to make recommendations.

What is your resolution?

This is extremely important especially for a gaming machine. I see people all the time asking for a video card recommendation and 5 people reply "5850" and the person hasn't even given their gaming resolution; it turns out the person games at 1280x1024 and could have ended up wasting $200 on a card that is total and complete overkill for his resolution.

What are you using it for?

Mostly gaming? Some gaming with video encoding mixed in? Photoshop? Streaming? All this matters, you can end up spending a lot of money and not be able to do anything you wanted to or you can spend a lot of money on stuff you don't even want to do.

What is your upgrade cycle?

Knowing the answer to this question makes it easier for people to recommend CPU sockets and GPUs so you get the most for your money. A person with a longer upgrade (2+ years) cycle will probably end up spending more initially but end up saving more at the expense of some performance. On the other hand a person with a shorter upgrade cycle (1 - 2 years) wants to spend less initially so they can put more money toward their next build.

When do you plan on building it?

Computer parts shift in prices often. With the release of new products, exist prices may drop further. Even without the release of new prices, changes in supply can affect the price of a specific part. The HD 5850 was supposed to retail at the $260 mark, but in a mere 4-5 months after its release it climbed to top $300 for basic reference models.

Do you plan on overclocking?

If you plan on overclocking, the motherboard choice and heatsink choice will be affected. Enthusiast overclocking requires enthusiast heatsinks and at least a stable motherboard. A simple budget Foxconn motherboard will not be adequate for your overclocking needs!

Does your budget include peripherals like mice, keyboards and monitors or are you just looking for the PC itself?
A budget for $700 that includes a monitor will give you a completely different setup than if you could spend another $180 on hardware.

Do you need an Operating System?

An OS is around $100. It affects how much of your budget we can spend on the actual hardware.

Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?

CrossFire and SLI are powerful solutions that allow higher performance, but in order to utilize them, we have to choose motherboards and PSUs that can support the increased demands that Crossfire and SLI place on your components.

Is there anything you can take with you from your previous computer?
Think DVD-drive, case, perhaps a harddrive if it's 7200 RPM, maybe even a power supply.


Where are you buying your parts from?

If you have a nearby Fry's or Microcenter you can utilize their deals. If you're in Europe you obviously cannot use Newegg/Fry's/Microcenter so we need to know where you are from to put together a list of parts from a website or area you can actually buy from.

If you can't answer these questions, make sure you can answer them before you ask us to help you put together a list of parts for you. Every single question affects the build we will put together for you greatly so make sure you can answer them accurately![/spoiler-box]

Processor/CPU
[spoiler-box]
-New build? Make it Intel.
-AMD upgrade? Bulldozer sucks, just get a cheaper Phenom II X4/X6.

Sub $100

Athlon II X4 640
Pentium G620
Athlon II X3 445


$100-$150

Core i3 2100
Phenom II X4 955 AM3

$150-$200

Core i5 2400 LGA 1155
Phenom II X6 1090T

$200-$300

Core i5 2500K LGA 1155
Core i5 2500 LGA 1155

$300+

Core i7 2600K LGA 1155
you have too much money

1155 vs 1156

LGA 1155 CPUs are not compatible with LGA 1156 motherboards and vice versa. However, many LGA 1155 motherboards will also support the heatsinks with LGA 1156 brackets. Contrary to popular belief, this change was not avoidable due to the new architecture of the Sandy Bridge CPUs.

As far as performance goes, there isn't much reason to upgrade from a higher end Core 2 Quad/Phenom II X4/Core i5/i7 as the performance benefits from the Sandy Bridge CPU will not be as noticeable, especially if your CPU is overclocked.

1156 vs 1366 OBSOLETE

There are pretty much only 3 reasons that a person should be going for Socket 1366: you absolutely NEED triple channel or a dual graphics setup, you want to overclock your CPU at stock voltages, or you enjoy benchmarking and value your e-penis. Socket 1156 provides the same CPU performance but costs less, draws less power, and runs cooler. If you are looking at LGA 1366 for upgradability you are looking at the wrong socket. Both LGA 1156 and LGA 1366 WILL be replaced by next year. The new Intel CPUs will use a different socket.[/spoiler-box]

Motherboard
[spoiler-box]AMD Chipset:

x16/x16

890FX
790FX

x8/x8

890GX
790X

x16

880G*
870
785G*
770

Intel Chipset:

x16/x16

X58
P55**
P67**

x8/x8

P55
P67
Z68^

x16

H55***
H57***
H67^"
Z68^

*Integrated graphics on motherboard but can be cheaper than non-IGP counterparts.
**Some P55 boards can achieve the full x16/x16 bandwidth through use of the Nvidia NF200 chip. This chip however is expensive, and generally it isn't worth the money to buy such P55 motherboards.
***Integrated graphics when paired with an i3 dual core or i5 dual core
^Integrated graphics when paired with 2nd generation Intel Core i3/i5/i7 series CPU.
"Does not support overclocking

800Chipset vs 700Chipset

The 8xx chipset on the AMD motherboards is a new chipset that AMD released in 2009. The most notable of the additions to the 800 series is the SB850 which added native SATA 6GB/s support. Instead of using a third party chip that would occupy PCIe Express lanes, the SATA 6GB/s is processed straight through the chipset itself which allows the full bandwidth for PCIe expansion cards like graphics cards and the full 6GB/s bandwidth for SATA.

x16/x16 vs x8/x8 vs x16

This denotes PCI-E bandwidth, x16/x16 provides full bandwidth to dual GPU configurations, whereas x8/x8 does not. x8/x8 is generally fine for cards less powerful than the HD 4870. The single x16 denotes that the motherboard only supports a single GPU configuration.[/spoiler-box]

RAM
[spoiler-box]Frequency vs Cas Latency and Timings

In general CAS Latency can be seen as the amount of time it takes for memory to do whatever you tell it to do. Generally the lower the latency, the better. However, CAS latency is dependent on clock cycles because instructions can only be sent at a certain clock frequency (1066MHz, for example). When looking at RAM the higher the frequency and lower the CAS latency the better.

Don't need 16GB of RAM

4GB of RAM is the standard now. There is almost no need at the current moment to get more or less than 4GB. There are certain cases in which extra RAM may be useful such as heavy Photoshop use. However current RAM prices are through the floor right now and 8GB can be picked up dirt cheap in comparison to what it was like a few years back and if you can afford to pick up 8GB, it will be a good future investment. Like many parts it's heavily dependent on what you and what applications you use.

Triple Channel vs Dual Channel

The X58 is currently the only chipset available that supports triple channel memory. The difference between triple channel and dual channel is very marginal and may only see performance increases in RAM heavy applications. Triple channel memory addresses memory bandwidth when dealing with very memory intensive tasks and is oriented more towards Intel Xeon platforms, not i7 platforms.

Native frequency support

As of 2008, all new CPUs have onboard memory controllers that can specify how fast RAM can run by default. Intel LGA 1156 CPUs have a stated max of 1333MHz, LGA 1366 have a stated max of 1067MHz, and AMD AM3 CPUs have a stated max of 1333MHz. The higher speeds of 1600MHz and above are allowed by the motherboard manufacturers and also by overclocking. At one point, the AMD memory controllers had a hard time coping with the 1600MHz RAM and would force RAM rated at 1600MHz to run at 1333MHz. The problem was caused by the memory controller in the 2nd revision AMD CPUs. This has supposedly been fixed as of the new 3rd revision CPUs which were released in 2009.

All new Intel Sandy Bridge CPU (2nd generation Core i3/i5/i7) have a base clock of 100MHz. This base clock is tied to other frequencies on the CPU (such as the PCIe bus frequency) so only very small changes can be made to it.

Low Voltage RAM

Often times you will see RAM modules marketed as being 'Low Voltage'. This is much more common with DDR3 because the memory controller on the i3/i5/i7 CPUs cannot handle more than 1.65V while the Core 2 Duo/Quad front side bus was able to handle up to 2.1V on the memory. Generally it is better to purchase RAM that operates at a lower voltage, so if two specs of RAM are exactly the same except for the voltages, the lower voltage sticks will be better. However, beware of the 1.35V and 1.25V modules of RAM that are marketed as 'extra low voltage'. While it is true that they operate at lower voltages, many motherboards will not allow them to operate at such low voltages AND in general, you do not save much more electricity. If you are concerned about saving electricity, you should first spend money on a more efficient power supply, more efficient motherboard, or more efficient graphics card because those are the parts that will make the most difference in power consumption.[/spoiler-box]

Graphics Card/Video Card/GPU
[spoiler-box]

2560x1600
GTX 590
HD 6990
GTX 680
HD 7970
GTX 580
HD 6970
HD 7950

1920x1200

GTX 590
HD 6990
GTX 680
HD 7970
GTX 580
HD 6970
HD 7950
HD 7870
GTX 570
HD 6950 1GB
GTX 560 Ti
HD 6870
GTX 460 1GB
HD 6850

1680x1050

GTX 460 1GB
HD 6850
GTX 550 Ti
HD 6770

1280x1024

GTX 550Ti
HD 6770
GTS 450
HD 6750
HD 6670

Integrated vs Dedicated

The main difference between an integrated GPU and a dedicated GPU is that the dedicated GPU will have its own supply of VRAM while the integrated GPU will have to borrow System RAM, which is why your computer may appear to have less RAM than you thought! The integrated GPU is sharing (stealing) your system RAM!

Why is that important? All RAM is the same right...? No! In general, GPUs use very fast RAM which has a wider bandwidth, and faster transfer speeds. The faster a GPU can send information to the rest of the system, the better it performs. Typically, Dedicated GPUs will also have more dedicated RAM than the integrated can borrow from your system!

The other difference which is simply a result of the above is that integrated GPUs will be much weaker than their dedicated brothers! Because integrated GPUs do not have the memory bandwidth to support much data, they are made to process very little data. While a powerful integrated GPU can have as many as 16 or so pipelines (shaders), dedicated GPUs can have tens of hundreds! If you plan on gaming on your integrated GPU, don't!

Why does integrated exist then? Integrated GPUs are cheap to produce, are light on power consumption, run cool, and are generally sufficient for non-gaming, non-workstation machines. Many users will probably never need an HD 4870 or even an HD 4550!

SLI and CrossFire

SLI and CrossFire solutions are multi-GPU configurations that split the work between two GPUs instead of having just one GPU doing all the work. They serve the same purpose, but they are implemented differently. SLI is a technology that is restricted to the motherboards that Nvidia supports and Nvidia chipsets whereas CrossFire will function on any motherboard that has two PCIe x16 slots and does not have an Nvidia chipset. In general, SLI will scale better than CrossFire due the superiority of Nvidia drivers and game support.

Both SLI and CrossFire can use a 'bridge' that will allow the GPUs to communicate with each other. While SLI will function without the bridge and communicate across the PCIe bus, if you SLI two high powered cards such as the GTX 480, the PCIe bus will often be saturated, which will actually cause performance decreases much of the time. In general, you should use the SLI bridge whenever possible. While CrossFire bridges come with the graphics card when you purchase it, normally SLI bridges should come with your SLI Certified motherboard.

Update 1/25/2011

AMD has been working on their driver support on many of their games, and now CrossFire configurations can easily boast that they can top SLI configurations of similar prices. The two technologies are now relatively equal and choosing between the two can be heavily game dependent.

HD 6850 and HD 6870

First to explain the naming, the Barts 6850 and the 6870 are slower than their respective 58xx parents. The 6870 performs like a 5850 (sometimes better), and the 6850 performs under the 5850. The obvious purpose of these cards are to bridge the less expensive Juniper (57xx) based GPUs to the newer up and coming Cayman (69xx) GPUs as well as the older Cypress (58xx) GPUs, an area dominated recently by the GTX 460 768MB and GTX 460 1GB. This is an area where ATI has been lacking due to the failure of the HD 5830, and the lack of stock of the HD 4890.

Where it gets interesting is in pricing. The 6850 and 6870 have no clear counterparts in Nvidia's lineup in terms of price and performance. The GTX 460 768MB is between the 6850 and 5770 in terms of performance and price, the GTX 460 1GB is between the 6850 and 6870, and the GTX 470 is a bit above the 6870. So when you are asked to choose between ATI and Nvidia, it becomes more complicated because it is no longer a 'this or that' situation where you are paying the same amount. Choosing ATI or Nvidia can mean spending an extra $20 for that extra performance.

HD 6950 2GB vs HD 6950 1GB

As far as the two cards go, the only difference between them is that one is short 1GB of frame buffer. For most of us, this does not mean much because as long as you are at or under 1920x1200, the frame buffer does not matter as much as the other details such as the GPU clock, memory clock, or bus width. However, at higher resolutions than 1920x1200, and when high levels of anti-aliasing are applied, the 2GB version comes out on top.

Most of us are at a lower resolution and do not need/want the high level of quality of AA offers, so the HD 6950 1GB can be the better choice even though the savings aren't too great (around $20 or so at the time of writing).

HD 6950 1GB vs HD 6870 vs GTX 560 TI

All three are great cards that perform extremely well at their price points. Of the three, the HD 6870 probably offers the best cost/performance ratio for the Starcraft 2 player who doesn't want any extra anti-aliasing, plays at a comfortable 1920x1200 resolution, and has Ultra graphics. However, there will be times when the HD 6870 will slow down. That is why there are two other cards here, the HD 6950 1GB and the GTX 560 TI. Both are amazing cards at what they do, and are easily worth the $30-60 premium that you end up paying.

As far as choosing between the two, the GTX 560 TI outperforms the 6950 1GB in just as many games as it loses out to its competitor, so the choice is mostly based on which games you plan on playing, or based on cost alone. The GTX 560 TI is very overclockable and shows very good results when overclocked (rivaling that of a GTX 570).

Drivers

Wait a few days ( Nvidia ;_; ) and then..

INSTALL THE LATEST DRIVERS IMMEDIATELY BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT YOUR GPU SUCKING OK?

OK? PLZ[/spoiler-box]

Power Supply/PSU
[spoiler-box]12V Rail and Wattages

Most PSUs today use their 12V rail to power the most demanding pieces of hardware. The CPU, GPU(s), hard drives, and fans all use the 12V rail for power. When selecting a PSU, you want to make sure that your 12V rail has enough amps to support your hardware. Wattage does not mean everything when selecting a PSU. If a 1000W PSU has merely a 70A 12V rail, it can only supply 12 * 70W of power to your peripherals. You want the product of 12 and the number of amps on the 12V rail to be fairly close (around 0-50W) to the wattage of the PSU.

80+ Ratings and PSU ratings

PSUs are rated by the wattages that they can deliver at max output safely. This means that a 750W PSU will not be pulling 750W of electricity out of the outlet at all times. It will only pull enough electricity to support the components. 80+ ratings are standards that some PSUs adhere to. If a 400W PSU is 80+ certified, that means at the test points of 20% load, 50% load, and at 100% load at room temperature it is above 80% efficient. There are 4 different levels of certification that demonstrate different levels of efficiency. There is 80+ Certified, 80+ Bronze, 80+ Silver, and 80+ Gold. The advantage of purchasing an 80+ PSU is that it will of course be more power efficient. If you need 400W out of a 400W 80+ PSU, it will pull 500W out of the outlet, but if you use a PSU with a lower efficiency PSU, it would pull more than 500W. Another benefit is lower heat output. Because the PSU is more efficient, less power is wasted as heat so the PSU runs cooler, which increases its life span and in turn reduces noise because there is less heat to be exhausted.

Be careful when choosing 80+ PSUs however, because while many shady PSUs may pass the requirements at room temperature, at higher temperatures that occur during longer operation or during summer, they may not be able to hold their certification. 80+ Certification is a way for PSUs to market their PSUs so you should be aware of it when purchasing a PSU.

Reputable brands

Corsair, Antec, Seasonic, Silverstone, Enermax, XFX

Reliable brands Less so than the above in general

Thermaltake, Zalman, Cooler Master, Xigmatek, Adata

Reputable OEMs

Seasonic, Channel Wells Technology, Enhance Electronics, Delta[/spoiler-box]

Case
[spoiler-box]Aluminum vs Steel

Aluminum's advantage over steel is that it is much lighter than steel in general. However, poorly made aluminum cases can cut your fingers when you work in them because aluminum is generally thinner and sharper than steel. Steel is generally a stronger material and consequently it will be heavier.

Case Choice

Case choice should be based on the looks, the airflow, cable management, and space. You must be able to have enough space for your components in your case. Whether you need space for an unorthodox motherboard form factor or an extra long graphics card, you need to be able to put the components in. Cable management makes the computer easier to work with, and can enhance airflow. Airflow is important in a case because without good airflow, the air in the case remains stagnant and the temperatures of your parts will increase.

Some companies that generally produce good, solid cases are Silverstone, Antec, Corsair, NZXT, Cooler Master, Lian Li[/spoiler-box]

Cooler/Heatsink/HSF
[spoiler-box]Generally an aftermarket HSF is not needed if you do not plan on overclocking. Purchase one only if you want a silent computer or are planning on overclocking.

Lower End:

Corsair A50
Cooler Master Hyper 212+
Cooler Master Hyper N
Scythe Mugen Rev B
Cogage True Spirit

High End:

Prolimatech Megahalems
Prolimatech Super Mega
Thermalright TRUE
Cogage Arrow
Corsair A70
Corsair H60
Corsair H70
Antec Kuhler
Noctua NH-D14

Thermal Compounds

When talking about cooling, many people get overeager about thermal compounds. Thermal compounds fill the gaps of air between the surface of the CPU and the surface of the heatsink. While thermal compound is extremely important, it is generally not as important as the heatsink and fan configuration itself. Good thermal compounds cost about $10 for a tube, and can probably help your temperatures by 2-3C. Unless you are doing extreme overclocking, such meaningless expenses should be shaved off and invested in a better motherboard or GPU. If you buy a high end heatsink like the Megahalem or H50, they will normally come packaged with very good thermal compounds so there is no need to buy more.[/spoiler-box]

Storage/Harddrive - HDD/SDD
[spoiler-box]Why the Velociraptor Sucks

At the moment, you pay a high premium to get the 10,000 RPM of the Velociraptor, but the increases in random access, and sequential read/write do not justify the premium. A Velociraptor might have an access time that is at best twice as fast as a traditional HDD, but it costs more than 20 times as much per GB. A SSD's access time will be 100 times as fast as a traditional HDD, but will cost around 35 times as much per GB. The sequential performance of the SSD will also be far superior to the performance of the Velociraptor.

7200RPM vs 54M00RP

Pretty simple, the faster the HDD spins the faster the HDD will read, write, or access. For your system drive (the drive you install your OS and applications on) you want it to run at 7200RPM because it will improve drive performance. For storage drives when speed isn't generally an issue, 5400RPM is acceptable, even preferred, for less power consumption and heat.

Random Performance SSD vs HDD

A SSD excels in random performance. A SSD can access a file in 0.1ms while an HDD can take anywhere from 4ms to 13ms. This allows the SSD to process many different requests faster than the HDD. Launching a program like Chrome or Starcraft II is dominantly random and opening 5 programs at once may stress an HDD, but a SSD will do it near instantly due to the high random reads, and low random access times. If you have ever had a computer start slowly, you have seen the result of the HDD being stressed. Each program takes a long time to load, and does not respond to clicks. With a SSD, the system start will be near instantaneous and you will not experience the slowdown that a HDD would cause.

RAID 0

RAID 0 is often stated as a way for HDDs to equal SSDs in performance or simply just to increase performance. RAID 0 is very much a double edged sword. While it does increase your sequential read and write speeds, your data is split across two hard drives which means that if one fails, you lose the information on both. While RAID 0 increases sequential read and write, it does not increase random read/write or random access, which are the points where the SSD is the strongest. Sequential reads and writes are not all that useful compared to random access and random read/write because most of your actions are random.

RAID 0 with SSDs also fairly pointless. While you do gain performance and you don't suffer from potential data loss, you do lose access to TRIM (on non-Intel motherboards). SSDs at the moment still need TRIM to keep performance high. Without TRIM, your SSD's write speeds will generally decrease over time.

xmShake has informed me that Intel motherboards can now support TRIM on RAID 0 and RAID 1 SSD configurations![/spoiler-box]

Overclocking
[spoiler-box]Overclocking is the act of pushing a component of the computer past what it is normally rated to operate at. CPU, RAM, GPU, and GPU RAM can all be overclocked past the normal clock rates, and under many circumstances, the GPU and GPU memory can be pre-overclocked when you buy it. CPU/RAM and GPU/GPU RAM overclocking are both quite different. As you are pushing the component beyond what it is rated for, you never know what to expect when you attempt to overclock. No two pieces of silicon are exactly the same so while somebody may be able to get 4GHz out of their i7, that does not mean you can achieve the same results in the fashion they did. Because overclocking pushes your components further, they will require more power, and in turn they will produce more heat. As such, overclocking will require a good stable motherboard, a stable PSU, and in most cases, an aftermarket heatsink and fan. The case can also be important in controlling the temperatures (especially with GPU).

CPU/RAM

CPU and RAM overclocking depends upon the CPU, RAM, motherboard, heatsink, and PSU. The CPU and RAM clock rates depend upon 3 core values on Intel boards (I can't give advice on AMD, though it should be very similar). Your CPU speed is determined by the BCLK (baseclock), and the CPU multiplier. Your memory clock depends upon the BCLK and the RAM multiplier. The BCLK is typically measured in MHz, and your CPU speed is the product of the BCLK and CPU multiplier. Your RAM speed is the product of the BCLK and the RAM multiplier. As such, raising your BCLK will raise both the speed in which the CPU operates at and the speed in which the RAM operates at.

A typical Intel CPU like the i7 860 has a BCLK of 133, a CPU multiplier of 21, and a default RAM multiplier of 10 which means that the CPU will operate 133MHz * 21 (2.80GHz), and the RAM will operate at 133MHz * 10 (1333MHz). If I changed the BCLK to 160, the CPU would operate at 160MHz * 21 (3.36GHz), and the RAM at 160MHz * 10 (1600MHz).

In most CPUs, you will not be able to change the CPU multiplier, only the BCLK and RAM multiplier. The exceptions are the Intel K series processors, Extreme Edition processors, and the AMD Black Edition processors. Those CPUs have unlocked multipliers and are generally easier to overclock because it is possible to overclock just by changing the CPU multiplier without changing the BCLK. It also offers more flexibility in the ways you can overclock a CPU.

If you want to learn more about overclocking, there are many guides online that tell you about how you can begin. If you are curious, you can enter your BIOS before Windows boots and change the BCLK by 5MHz either up or down. It shouldn't affect your stability and you'll be able to see the results of your overclock (or underclock) in CPU-Z.

I'm not going to get into voltages here. There are better articles out there for that.

After your overclock, you should download a program called Prime95. The purpose of Prime95 is to stress all of your cores. Prime95 uses all of your cores and pushes them to 100% load. If after 8-10 hours of Prime95 running, you still have not gotten an error, then your overclock can be considered stable. If however, Prime95 shows that your CPU made an error, it is time to go back to BIOS and adjust your clock!

For memory, you can change the clock through the BCLK/RAM multiplier or you can attempt to change the timings on the RAM. The timings as mentioned above are a measure of time in clock cycles. The lower your latency, the faster your memory can be accesed and used. As for memory, you can use Memtest86+ to stress your memory. If you get a errors or a BSOD then your memory timing/overclock is too aggressive.

Update 1/25/2011 LGA 1155 and future Intel CPU Overclocking

As of LGA 1155, all new Intel CPUs feature a unified base clock which is tied to every other frequency that is controlled by the CPU. What this means is by changing the base clock on a second gen Core i3/i5/i7 CPU, you not only change the memory frequency and the CPU frequency (which is what it was limited to for the most part before), you also change much more sensitive frequencies like the PCIe frequency. The more sensitive frequencies can not handle the overclocking that the memory frequency or CPU frequency can handle.

As such, the only way to overclock new Intel CPUs is to buy an unlocked CPU (denoted by the K suffix at the end of the CPU's name), along with a chipset that supports overclocking. P67 currently supports overclocking, but H67 does not.

When overclocking Intel CPUs, it will simply be a matter of changing the CPU multiplier and the memory multiplier instead of the base clock of the CPU.

GPU/GPU RAM

As with CPU and RAM, you can overclock your GPU/GPU RAM, but overclocking the GPU is generally much easier and is done through software rather than BIOS. Many graphic cards come with a CD that includes software from the company which can be used to overclock the GPU. Generally, GPU/GPU RAM overclocking is as simple as moving a slider. Many programs exist that allow you to overclock your GPU, and most of them are based off of RivaTuner. Many companies have their own software bundled with the GPU, EVGA has EVGA Precision, ASUS has Smart Doctor, MSI has MSI Afterburner, etc. Generally they serve the same purpose and many are cross compatible with different GPUs, though some features may not work with all GPUs.

Unlike with CPUs, often times you do not need to replace the heatsink on your GPU in order to get a decent overclock. Frequently, the reference designs provided by ATI/Nvidia will be sufficient for mild overclocking, and after the graphics card has matured a bit, you will often find non-reference designs that can cool more efficiently. Still, a limiting factor of GPU overclocking is still the heat, and you want to monitor the temperatures that your GPU reaches. Though temperatures in the high 80s and low 90s aren't exactly uncommon, it would be best to avoid those temperatures for the safety of your GPU.

However you still do need to check the stability of your overclock! Fortunately, there is a great tool similar to Primers for the GPU called FurMark which will stress your GPU to 100% by drawing fur. If you see 'artifacts', objects on the display that do not belong like black strips and flashing colors, your GPU overclock is unstable and needs to be lowered. If however, after around 15-20 minutes, you do not see any artifacts and your GPU is sufficiently cool, your overclock can be considered stable.[/spoiler-box]

Useful Software
[spoiler-box]General System Monitoring

HWMonitor
SpeedFan
RealTemp

CPU

CPU-Z
Prime95
SuperPI
IntelBurnTest

GPU

GPU-Z
FurMark
(Choose One) MSI Afterburner, EVGA Precision, RivaTuner, <insert GPU overclocking utility here>
Catalyst Control Center (ATI)

Memory

Memtest86+

HDD

DiskCheckup
HD Tach

Benchmarking

FurMark
SuperPI
Unigine
3D Mark
Fraps
Futuremark

and others so google[/spoiler-box]

Further reading
[Spoiler-box]Tech sites
http://www.anandtech.com
mahnini and FragKrag agree that anandtech is best ez (come here for everything, especially SSDs)
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com
http://www.jonnyguru.com
http://www.xbitlabs.com
http://www.hardocp.com
http://www.bit-tech.net
http://www.tomshardware.com
http://www.notebookreviews.com
Laptops
http://www.fudzilla.com
Rumors
http://www.frostytech.com
http://www.hardware-revolution.com/

buy stuff from

USA/CANADA
http://newegg.com (http://newegg.ca)
http://woot.com
http://NCIX.com (canada?)
http://tigerdirect.com
Fry's Electronics (http://www.frys.com)
Microcenter (http://www.microcenter.com)

Europe (maybe?)
http://www.pixmania.com
http://www.komplett.ie
http://www.ebuyer.co.uk
http://www.hardwareversand.de

Australia
http://pccasegear.com.au

Hong Kong
http://www.jumbo-computer.com/pricelist.asp
[/spoiler-box]

Skyly
Apr 11, 2012, 04:27 AM
Nice post!

ClothoBuer
Apr 11, 2012, 05:10 AM
I'd like to toss a recommendation under the Cases section for NZXT. Been using their cases for the past 8-9 years, and both their full and mid-size towers are among the best chassis I've ever built within. Their Phantom (http://www.nzxt.com/new/products/crafted_series/phantom)/Phantom 410 (http://www.nzxt.com/new/products/crafted_series/phantom_410) series are highly rated among full-size towers, and I personally recommend the Guardian 921 RB (http://www.nzxt.com/new/products/crafted_series/guardian_921_rb) as their Guardian mid-size tower series has never disappointed.

Mitz
Apr 11, 2012, 06:47 AM
I've never seen one of those cases being sold here but I saw it on some American sites earlier and they look very sturdy, I'll add it.

Xenobia
Apr 11, 2012, 07:13 AM
Someone should pay him for that work.

Merumeru
Apr 11, 2012, 10:09 AM
XD Wow, this is SUPER friggin' helpful, thanks so much. <3

kyuuketsuki
Apr 11, 2012, 11:21 AM
I'm not sure we really need 3 threads for computer topics on the PSO2 board, but eh, whatever.

This denotes PCI-E bandwidth, x16/x16 provides full bandwidth to dual GPU configurations, whereas x8/x8 does not. x8/x8 is generally fine for cards less powerful than the HD 4870.
Nope. It has been demonstrated that no card is currently bottlenecked by an x8 PCIe connection, as far as gaming is concerned. Even on motherboards where Xfire uses an x16/x4 setup, the x4 connection only impacts performance by an average of maybe 10%.
4GB of RAM is the standard now. There is almost no need at the current moment to get more or less than 4GB. There are certain cases in which extra RAM may be useful such as heavy Photoshop use. However current RAM prices are through the floor right now and 8GB can be picked up dirt cheap in comparison to what it was like a few years back and if you can afford to pick up 8GB, it will be a good future investment.
I actually don't recommend getting less than 8GB currently unless you're doing a real budget build where the $20 savings will really make a difference. Even then, if you can afford the extra $20, it's worth it.
As of 2008, all new CPUs have onboard memory controllers that can specify how fast RAM can run by default. Intel LGA 1156 CPUs have a stated max of 1333MHz, LGA 1366 have a stated max of 1067MHz, and AMD AM3 CPUs have a stated max of 1333MHz. The higher speeds of 1600MHz and above are allowed by the motherboard manufacturers and also by overclocking. At one point, the AMD memory controllers had a hard time coping with the 1600MHz RAM and would force RAM rated at 1600MHz to run at 1333MHz. The problem was caused by the memory controller in the 2nd revision AMD CPUs. This has supposedly been fixed as of the new 3rd revision CPUs which were released in 2009.
This is a little more information than most people really need on the subject. Suffice to say, if you're getting Sandy Bridge, get 1333MHz or 1600Mhz RAM with a CAS of 9. There's little price difference between them and lower performing RAM chips, and Sandy Bridge isn't memory-starved so faster RAM really has next to no practical advantage. For AMD, the story is a little different, but it's still not worth spending a large premium for extremely fast RAM, except possibly for Llano (and Trinity in the future). Also, pay attention to what your motherboard supports, of course.
Graphics Card/Video Card/GPU
It should be noted that some of the 6xxx-series AMD cards are being phased out and can be difficult to find outside of something like Ebay. For example, Newegg has only two 6950 SKUs in stock, both of which are the 2GB variant, and it likely won't be long before they have none in stock.
The other difference which is simply a result of the above is that integrated GPUs will be much weaker than their dedicated brothers! Because integrated GPUs do not have the memory bandwidth to support much data, they are made to process very little data. While a powerful integrated GPU can have as many as 16 or so pipelines (shaders), dedicated GPUs can have tens of hundreds! If you plan on gaming on your integrated GPU, don't!
This was true before Llano, but Llano is actually sufficient for light gaming duty despite the drawbacks of integrated GPUs. Also, you failed to note an advantage of APUs (APU being the combination of a CPU and GPU on a single chip, for those who don't know): faster communication with the CPU, due to the physical proximity and, therefore, not having to communicate through a slower (relative to the speeds at which components internal to the CPU) system like the PCIe bus.

The high-end desktop Llanos could likely handle PSO2 alright at lower resolutions and details. When Trinity comes out, I fully expect even the mobile variants to be able to handle it at decent resolutions and details.
As far as the two cards go, the only difference between them is that one is short 1GB of frame buffer. For most of us, this does not mean much because as long as you are at or under 1920x1200, the frame buffer does not matter as much as the other details such as the GPU clock, memory clock, or bus width. However, at higher resolutions than 1920x1200, and when high levels of anti-aliasing are applied, the 2GB version comes out on top.
Games nowadays can fill a 1GB buffer even at 1080p. Granted, most of the time, there will be no performance difference between the 1GB card and 2GB card at resolutions of 1080p and lower. But, as games move forward, a larger frame buffer will become more important even at 1080p. However, this is largely academic as you probably won't be able to find the 6950 for much longer and will have to look to the 7850/7870. I think even know the price/performance of the 78xx cards is superior, though I'm not certain.

Storage/Harddrive - HDD/SDD
You failed to note Seagate's hybrid Momentus XT, which is a great alternative option. They perform faster, on average than a Velociraptor, and can approach SSD-like performance levels on many common tasks. They don't compete with SSDs on random read/write performance, but the $/GB ratio is much better, and is good even compared to normal HDDs. Also, they're an even better option for notebook users who can only have one drive and don't want to give up the storage space of an HDD for a relatively small SSD.
RAID 0 with SSDs also fairly pointless. While you do gain performance and you don't suffer from potential data loss, you do lose access to TRIM (on non-Intel motherboards). SSDs at the moment still need TRIM to keep performance high. Without TRIM, your SSD's write speeds will generally decrease over time.
What? The potential for data loss if one of the drive fails is the same for RAID 0 regardless of if it's an SSD or HDD. Also...
xmShake has informed me that Intel motherboards can now support TRIM on RAID 0 and RAID 1 SSD configurations!
Allowing the TRIM command to pass to RAID 0/1 configurations is a feature of Intel's storage drivers, not a particular motherboard, as far as I'm aware. And, last I checked, Intel hadn't released the version of their drivers that allows TRIM to pass through. However, SSDs with aggressive background garbage collection often don't need TRIM to maintain their performance, though it never hurts.

SELENNA
Apr 11, 2012, 11:44 AM
What do you think of this build?

Newegg.ca - Computers, Computer Parts and Electronics
My Wish List Details

PC Build

Qty. Image Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 Corsair Carbide Series 400R Graphite grey and black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Gaming Case

Corsair Carbide Series 400R Graphite grey and black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Gaming Case
Model #:400R
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$109.99 $109.99
1 ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
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1 SAPPHIRE 11196-00-40G Radeon HD 7950 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

SAPPHIRE 11196-00-40G Radeon HD 7950 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
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Item #:N82E16814102962
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$469.99 -$10.00 Instant $459.99
1 CORSAIR Professional Series Gold AX850 (CMPSU-850AX) 850W ATX12V v2.31 / EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply

CORSAIR Professional Series Gold AX850 (CMPSU-850AX) 850W ATX12V v2.31 / EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular ...
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1 Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 BX80623I72600K

Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 ...
Model #:BX80623I72600K
Item #:N82E16819115070
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$324.99 $324.99
1 Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2CCA 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) with Transfer Kit

Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2CCA 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) with Transfer Kit
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1 CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CML16GX3M4A1600C9

CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CML16GX3M4A1600C9
Model #:CML16GX3M4A1600C9
Item #:N82E16820233197
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1 SAMSUNG EcoGreen F4 HD204UI 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

SAMSUNG EcoGreen F4 HD204UI 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Model #:HD204UI
Item #:N82E16822152245
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1 AZIO Levetron KB555U Black USB Wired Gaming Keyboard

AZIO Levetron KB555U Black USB Wired Gaming Keyboard
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1 ASUS VW246H Glossy Black 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor

ASUS VW246H Glossy Black 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor
Model #:VW246H
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1 Logitech G9x Black Two modes scroll USB Wired Laser Gaming Mouse

Logitech G9x Black Two modes scroll USB Wired Laser Gaming Mouse
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1 ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM

ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
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1 ASUS XONAR_DG 5.1 Channels PCI Interface Xonar DG Sound Card

ASUS XONAR_DG 5.1 Channels PCI Interface Xonar DG Sound Card
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1 Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit

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1 COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" Long Life Sleeve 120mm CPU Cooler Compatible Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7

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Subtotal: $2,245.86

kyuuketsuki
Apr 11, 2012, 12:51 PM
What do you think of this build?
[snip]
That's obviously way more than enough for PSO2, and is pretty much a top-shelf system. A couple points:

1) Are you going to use this system for professional applications where the i7 CPU's hyper threading and little bit of extra cache will actually make a difference? If not, you're better off saving some dough and getting the i5-2500/2600k instead.

2) That motherboard is more expensive than I'd go with. Do you really need the extra features an expensive motherboard like that offers over cheaper ones?

3) That hard drive is a 5400RPM drive. Now, if you're sure you're going to use it for nothing but media (videos, pictures, music, etc.), that's no big deal. But, if you're going to be putting programs of any sort on there, you're much better off getting a 7200RPM drive. 5400RPM drives only make sense (as far as general consumer applications are concerned) for notebooks, and even there I wouldn't get a 5400RPM drive.

4) That sound card you have listed shows out-of-stock. Also, do you really need a dedicated sound card? Most motherboards have decent audio and can even do surround sound if you need it.

SolRiver
Apr 11, 2012, 03:34 PM
I would save a few bucks on keyboard and mouse (and sound card? dont know, u could be a musician?)and transfer the budget for an IPS monitor with decent refresh rate and response time. There are more and more gaming ready IPS monitors at affordable price, it really make the game look WAY better. Monitor can last longer than most other components of the computer, don't be so cheap on it if you got the cash to spend.

A quick simple monitor buying guide http://reviews.cnet.com/monitor-buying-guide/
(if you are going to get IPS, make sure you do your research whether it has ghosting etc)

Krank32oz
Apr 11, 2012, 04:18 PM
Have they announced the min specs for pso2 yet? Tried looking for it but could seem to find anything and I cant read Japanese:( Also was looking at this build off newegg.com. Let me know if I can do better for the price. (know I'm paying more for pre built and yea it comes with a mouse and keyboard as well).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227386

ClothoBuer
Apr 11, 2012, 08:40 PM
4) That sound card you have listed shows out-of-stock. Also, do you really need a dedicated sound card? Most motherboards have decent audio and can even do surround sound if you need it.

Sound and ethernet cards should always be viewed as optional components; nice to have, but not required. I use a Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium card in my gaming PC, but I can live without it. It's nice to have, especially for the positional audio, and it is better at audio playback than the onboard, but unless you can justify the purchase of it, you're better off with the onboard.

Link1275
Apr 11, 2012, 09:15 PM
I'm going to ask the biggest question.
What components are needed for the BEST computer you can make with parts that are coming out in the next 6 months at most(meaning parts that are out now or will be out in the next 6 months)? Also what would be the estimated cost?

Dinosaur
Apr 11, 2012, 09:26 PM
I'm going to ask the biggest question.
What components are needed for the BEST computer you can make with parts that are coming out in the next 6 months at most(meaning parts that are out now or will be out in the next 6 months)? Also what would be the estimated cost?

Intel Core i7-3960X ($1000)
Nvidia GTX 680 ($500)
OCZ RevoDrive X2 720GB ($2500)

Mitz
Apr 11, 2012, 09:38 PM
I'm going to ask the biggest question.
What components are needed for the BEST computer you can make with parts that are coming out in the next 6 months at most(meaning parts that are out now or will be out in the next 6 months)? Also what would be the estimated cost?

You can go as crazy as you like but the cost of an i7 Ivy Bridge-E, 4 way SLI mobo, 4 GTX 680s and a dedicated Pci SDD controller will set you back around $7000. Then add 3 good IPS monitors and you got Skynet though.

Primobol
May 2, 2012, 02:37 PM
Then add 3 good IPS monitors and you got Skynet though.
There is no such thing as good IPS monitor if you're a real gamer. They still are not fast enough and I don't think they will support 3D Vision anytime soon.

Peejay
May 2, 2012, 02:49 PM
3D Vision.

That's unncessary to people who can't see 3D anyways, which is like, one fifth of the world. Even if you can, you're going to be earning a headache from using it. I know support is ramping up a LOT for 3D, but you, and everyone else should be asking themselves if it's really that necessary.

GlacialTerror
May 2, 2012, 03:44 PM
What is generally needed to run pso2 on max settings?

Sizustar
May 2, 2012, 04:01 PM
How about software for recording video and also for people doing live gameplay?

Recording

MSI After burner - Free

Commonly used
Bandicam - Used primary by Asian gamer, but free version only allow 10 min of recording
Frap - Pay to use
Camstudio

Etc.


What is generally needed to run pso2 on max settings?

The Min spec if I remember

Basicly, Window XP SP3 or higher
2 G of ram or more
CPU - 1.8Ghz or higher
Graphic Card - NVIDIA GeForce 7800GT

So generally any PC purchased or built within the last 2~3 year.

I'm able to run it at Max, but I overclock my PC

AMD Phenom 965 BE - OCed to 3.9ghz
8 gig of 1600 ram
GTX 460 765mb ver. Overclocked to 900 mhz


I'm going to ask the biggest question.
What components are needed for the BEST computer you can make with parts that are coming out in the next 6 months at most(meaning parts that are out now or will be out in the next 6 months)? Also what would be the estimated cost?

Generally, a $1000 Gaming PC should be able to run it, it's not exactly a graphic intensive game.

Primobol
May 2, 2012, 04:58 PM
That's unncessary to people who can't see 3D anyways, which is like, one fifth of the world. Even if you can, you're going to be earning a headache from using it. I know support is ramping up a LOT for 3D, but you, and everyone else should be asking themselves if it's really that necessary.
I never had any headache because of it specifically.
I could make a "once you go..." sentence for it y'know, but I'm not too creative atm. And it would be SICK to play PSO2 with them GIANT a$$ bosses on 3D if they ever support it.



What is generally needed to run pso2 on max settings?
Probably a GTX 280 can max it out 1080p. Maybe 260 even. And I would recommend at least 8GB of RAM (12 if you have triple channel). This game uses a LOT of RAM. My system was using more than 4GB when PSO2 was running (PSO2 was using almost 1.5GB).

Cayenne
May 2, 2012, 05:56 PM
Pay attention to this post.

This should give you an idea where you want to be in order to play max.

I posted these results after the Alpha 2 Test back in january.

"For those worried about it running on Max, heres my specs and results:

I built this computer back in late 2008

Windows XP 32 bit
Intel Core 2 Quad @ 2.4Ghz
2GB RAM System Memory OC'd
EVGA 9800GTX+ 512MB Video Memory
Mother board-EVGA 750i SLI FTW Edition
22' Monitor @ 1680x1050

Frames Per Second (playing with 3 other people on screen the whole time)
Lobby: 20-40 FPS (lag is the culprit)
Campship: 60+FPS
Field (no enemies): 60+FPS
Field (enemies): 40-60FPS
8 Players on screen with around 10 enemies on screen, 2 of those being the Giants with HUGE shields: 20-40FPS (rarely got around 15FPS)
Boss battles: 40-60FPS (did a good job at staying around 50 the whole time)

In conclusion, if you have specs like mines then you're fine. Anything faster is over kill unless you use a higher resolution. If you are below then set it to around 3 (2 or 1 if you have to) and if you want more speed then play in windowed mode."

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2715992&postcount=681

And Closed Beta Results:
Frames Per Second (playing with 3 other people on screen the whole time)
Lobby: 20-40FPS w/lag, 50-60+FPS w/ no lag
Campship: 60+FPS
Field (no enemies): 60+FPS
Field (enemies): 40-60+FPS
8 Players on screen with around 10 enemies on screen, 25-60FPS (frames stayed around 50)
Boss battles: 40-60+FPS (did a good job at staying around 50 the whole time)

The only thing I changed was I switched from XP to Win7 and it ran better for some reason, maybe because SEGA fixed the lag toward the end.

Hope this helps.

Konflyk
May 2, 2012, 06:54 PM
What is generally needed to run pso2 on max settings?

I run on high with the following(Will clean up with proper component names when I get home)

OS: Win 7 Home Premium
CPU: Athlon x2 3.0GHZ quad core
RAM: 8GB CAS 9 $30
GPU: 6850HD @ 1920x1080 $150 on Newegg
PSU: 550w XFX $70
I purchased the HP p6710f(you can google it) and added the GPU along with 4GB of ram, and replaced the PSU with a 550w from the 250w it came with.

In total I paid about $740(tax/S&H not included) total for all that, with a nice 23" samsung monitor.

I tend to only get frame lag in lobbies once I go on Block 20, damn you all PSOW(still love you guys though), and I usually run smooth everywhere else with nothing below 55 frames unless for some reason 5 bosses spawn in the volcano, then everyones PC turns to shit for a few minutes.

As far as what you need to run on high, I'd just say it could be anything between what Cayenne, or I has, the game runs under DX9 anyway, so older high end DX9 GPUs ought to be fine running the game, as any other higher end GPU.