Concerns (and optimism) regarding F2P

[CDOG14515]

As of yesterday, I was ready to quit on the F2P concept. Too many games charge you nothing up front, only to nickel-and-dime you to death until you've paid well over $60 in microtransactions, all to have a "complete" experience.

This morning I played Tribes: Ascend. If PSO2 adopts a similar F2P model, we may be okay. Too many F2P games either hide their costs behind "optional" microtransactions (LOTRO) or just feel unfinished and low-budget (Iris Online). In a perfect world (in my opinion), PSO2 would be $60 and lack a subscription fee. By costing nothing, Sega has opened the door to potentially abuse their players (not saying they will). I know some would argue that microtransactions (even in excess) within a F2P game are fair game. I simply resent this direction, something I never could have predicted I'd be saying, considering just a few years ago, a "free" game sounded amazing.

Anyways, Tribes does a good job of giving the player a lot of quality, free content up-front. It locks away upgrades, additional classes and cosmetic stuff either to be purchased by (a good amount of) in-game EXP or real money. This model seems to work well, and I hope PSO2 feels more like a whole game with microtransactions than an incomplete one we have to finish ourselves.

Any thoughts? Sorry for TLDR.

[Griffin]

we may be okay.

With all due respect, you should probably speak for yourself, because there are people that don't mind nickel-ing and dime-ing. F2P either works for you or doesn't. There is nothing generally wrong with the business model.

[CDOG14515]

Fair enough, I'm speaking for myself: I would rather pay some up front and have fewer (and less significant, more cosmetic) microtransactions. It was foolish to presume that my views were shared by the community, and I'm sorry if I put words in anyone's mouth.

[•Col•]

I don't really mind having to pay for stuff if it's F2P.... Just wish they'd stick away from recurring fees, though. I would rather that they have a permanent one-time buy option for EVERY service/item.

Still upset that there's a monthly fee just to have the ability to trade..... Just doesn't feel right to have such a basic/essential function to have a subscription.

If they went to the extreme thoguh... And made clothes/appearance items only last 30 days or whatever, I would most likely flip shit(and hopefully everyone else would too).

[youcantcatchtheblue]

For F2P, it all just depends on how discipline you are with using your money. There are A LOT of people who can easily say no to everything, not pay a single cent and still be happy with everything they have in the game. Then there are also a lot of people who can't control their spending and end up buying everything they want.

If you're really concerned about how much it's going to cost you, just be more discipline. F2P is good because it lets you decide how much you spend. It's not SEGA's fault if you can't control your own spending.

If this was P2P, at $10 a month, you'd reach $120 in one year alone. F2P is definitely cheaper.

[Randomness]

It's pointless to speculate until the CB starts and we get more information.

As noted, some games do it well, some do it horribly.

[•Col•]

For F2P, it all just depends on how discipline you are with using your money. There are A LOT of people who can easily say no to everything, not pay a single cent and still be happy with everything they have in the game. Then there are also a lot of people who can't control their spending and end up buying everything they want.

If you're really concerned about how much it's going to cost you, just be more discipline. F2P is good because it lets you decide how much you spend. It's not SEGA's fault if you can't control your own spending.

If this was P2P, at $10 a month, you'd reach $120 in one year alone. F2P is definitely cheaper.

The only thing is that they kinda force you into buying certain things that you would've gotten had you actually just bought a game.

I think there is a decent number of people who feel like they need more than just 1 character to play with... I'm personally fine with having only 1 character slot, but still. Then there's other stuff like buying storage space(which they could potentially screw us with, and only give us like 10 slots for items)... Meaning you kinda are required to spend the money for extra storage space if you play the game enough. Then there's paying to be able to trade... And I feel like trading is kinda essential in a PSO game. Maybe it's just me, though.

Regardless, these fees could still all easily add up to more than you would have had to spend if they bought the game and paid a monthly subscription fee. It's not just about controlling yourself from buying every last appearance item. D: Not saying it will, but you can't just say it's going to be less expensive to play PSO2 than PSO/PSU were.

[Griffin]

Fair enough, I'm speaking for myself: I would rather pay some up front and have fewer (and less significant, more cosmetic) microtransactions. It was foolish to presume that my views were shared by the community, and I'm sorry if I put words in anyone's mouth.

I wasn't try to snap at you or anything. There are definitely people who share your view, and it was often spoken about in an earlier thread. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand your concern.

[Sir Green Aluminum]

Depends on how they handle cash shop. The good thing is that the game is free, the bad thing is if non-cosmetic feces ends up in there it starts to spoil the fun. For example the super healing items Mike talked about. And if there is PvP, cash shop items should not effect your ability to win. From my experience in F2P games, I usually never spend any cash.

If it's f2p you can guarantee people will try it if they're interested. Bad thing is, spammers and scammers can just make another account if you ban them. So in a way F2P is for like socialism, people who pay for stuff end up financing the game and also pay for the baddies' access to the game.
At least it didn't cost anything and they didn't add a cash shop like Guild Wars 2 and The secret world are doing, that's pretty stupid.

[•Col•]

Depends on how they handle cash shop. The good thing is that the game is free, the bad thing is if non-cosmetic feces ends up in there it starts to spoil the fun. For example the super healing items Mike talked about. And if there is PvP, cash shop items should not effect your ability to win.

If it's f2p you can guarantee people will try it if they're interested. Bad thing is, spammers and scammers can just make another account if you ban them.
At least it didn't cost anything and they didn't add a cash shop like Guild Wars 2 and The secret world are doing, that's pretty stupid.

Well we already know there are going to be plenty of non-cosmetic items up for sale. The three things I mentioned in my last post are known Arkz cash services: a larger Item Storage Expansion, Extra Character Slots(you only get 1 to start with), and a monthly fee for the ability to trade with other players.

It's this kinda stuff that worries me.

[Skyly]

F2P < P2P.

[White]

Im honestly for P2P. I am just hoping I wont end up spending like $500 in "F2P" cash shop stuff. I better be able to pick my clothing color at least. I hate when things are randomized with my money so they can make out like bandits.

[NoiseHERO]

Well how bout this?

Obvious US PSU doesn't have Guardian's cash... So what if it's the same for our PSO2-Okay, yeah, that's not happening I'll stop typing.

[condiments]

F2P < P2P.

While this may or may not be true, pay to play subscription models represents a significant barrier to entry for new players that most won't tolerate these days. Personally, I like the compromise between both models like Guild wars 2 where you purchase the game, and the commitment to your wallet ends there. You can pay more money for cosmetic reasons if you want, but it won't affect gameplay.

Obviously completely free to play games are going to lock some of the more essential features behind lock and key unless you're willing to put some cash forward. Some things about the game worry me so far(two big things are trading, and limited content on release...those could be game busting unless they handle it correctly), but I remain positive.

Sega is doing the smart move here guys, lets just hope they don't get too greedy.

[White]

Im on my hands and knees begging that this wont be more than like $5 or $10 for some of this stuff. I played a game that ran a cash shop like nazis, literally nickel and diming you for EVERYTHING. Random clothing colors, expensive dyes, mounts, fliers, armor, skills. You could not play to endgame without spending a dime because the good armor was expensive as sin and there is no way to make money without selling cash shop stuff. Excuse me while I go uninstall it from my computer.

[moorebounce]

I'm taking the "wait and see" approach with F2P Vs P2P. I've did P2P and didn't like it. You almost can't call PSO2 F2P because everything is not free. In my book everything has to be free to be called F2P. In a perfect world everything would be free but we all know this isn't a perfect world by a long shot.

If enough of the game is free and you can still enjoy it w/o having to buy things to be successful then I would consider that a good or great thing.

[Skyly]

While this may or may not be true, pay to play subscription models represents a significant barrier to entry for new players that most won't tolerate these days. Personally, I like the compromise between both models like Guild wars 2 where you purchase the game, and the commitment to your wallet ends there. You can pay more money for cosmetic reasons if you want, but it won't affect gameplay.

Obviously completely free to play games are going to lock some of the more essential features behind lock and key unless you're willing to put some cash forward. Some things about the game worry me so far(two big things are trading, and limited content on release...those could be game busting unless they handle it correctly), but I remain positive.

Sega is doing the smart move here guys, lets just hope they don't get too greedy.

F2P warrants greed IMO. PSO and PSU were locked in price and I was ok with that. There wasn't any mircocharges.

With the F2P it "feels" like everything is going to cost. Renting rooms and storage already doesn't sit well with me. The cash shop doesn't either. EXP and boost modifiers doesn't sit well with me. Along with the whole pay to trade.

I have another gut feeling that to play up to par you're gonig to have to buy thing in game.

I think mircotransactions totallying up to more than a set price of 10-15 bucks a month. I may be wrong but with F2P there's no limit on what they'll charge for.

The game itself would have cost 59.99 itself so SEGA has to get that one way or another.
On top of expansions the end price will probably exceed what it would be if they we're to stay on the P2P model.

Of course everything is assumed because there isn't any set in stone that we know about.

I doubt they'll anytime soon just to keep us guessing and interested.

EDIT: Also whose idea was it to have account bounded rares. That's just stupud! WTF SEGA


I'm taking the "wait and see" approach with F2P Vs P2P. I've did P2P and didn't like it. You almost can't call PSO2 F2P because everything is not free. In my book everything has to be free to be called F2P. In a perfect world everything would be free but we all know this isn't a perfect world by a long shot.

If enough of the game is free and you can still enjoy it w/o having to buy things to be successful then I would consider that a good or great thing.

Double POST!!!

What didn't you like about P2P?

[White]

I feel like pso-world should keep us posted with the beta cash shop prices so we can roughly transition them to $ so we know what we're dealing with in terms of price range.

[Macras]

it really depends on how they do it for me. as long as the price is good enough for the item being offered, i wont have issue as I'm assuming they wont require you to gamble to acquire most if not all the items you want.

otherwise, I don't see much issue to one character per account without buying a pack as most people will likely just make a new account anyways. and the room thing has me a bit irked that it will be temp, but i can likely do without it. really depends on how much it will cost in ark cash and how much ark cash translates to 1 USD

[Reia]

Well you guys SERIOUSLY expect that being P2P will make you Play2Win and big money investors won't affect you? Normally this is even worse in asian servers than americans but global servers tend to have this tendence, you come to realize that in any genre that aint a Fighter or an RTS it's all purely based on luck and money and where you live.

Let me show you an example with PSU. Your so called P2P game assuming its pure since there's no "money means power" ideology. You guys thought that since cash shop didnt affect the game performance nobody putting the big moneys will affect the gameplay. I can recall its wrong, it happenned only a few times in PC EN but it happenned a lot more often in Xbox360 servers and JP. And What's that? the RMT! You know its unlegit but it granted many people to get beloved 50% 10/10, 10/10 rare guns and psycho wands, 50% Line shields that granted ATP, Units and other stuff during the moment PSU was P2P with no effort and skills and paying a bunch of money to the dealer either sold you the items or the account itself for insane prices. You may consider both unlegit methods but the truth is that the rich guy gets what he wants in the end, if its cash shop (s)he can do it without being considered as unlegit by the company, if its P2P, (s)he just do the transaction in secret and pretend that (s)he received them as gifts. To just tell you the fact and don't care about the thing in real more than just a warning to you guys, I won't give out names of players who did that in PSU, but I know there are some people that did and are reading this and I'm pretty sure I know you guys well.

There are many other things than p(l)ay2win that make the unlegit players give solid proof against legit elitists to make them looks like Newbies. I experienced that 5 years ago and no longer give a care about it. Since I grew up as an Adult and change my point of view on gaming to a more casual point of view to most genres. For example RPGs It's like growing out plants to me, I just spend a few time and slowly watch it grow.

[Rizen]

Since I grew up as an Adult and change my point of view on gaming to a more casual point of view to most genres.
This line pretty much sums up how I feel about online games. As much as I appreciate balance in an MMO, I know there are too many spoiled entitled brats that will ruin it for everyone one way or another regardless of F2P or P2P.

Best just to get a good select group of friends or community and stick with them. Ignore all the cash shop and trading aspect of it and just enjoy the game. I will personally be all for hunting rares and not trading.

[Kaiyou_Trinon]

it really depends on how they do it for me. as long as the price is good enough for the item being offered, i wont have issue as I'm assuming they wont require you to gamble to acquire most if not all the items you want.

otherwise, I don't see much issue to one character per account without buying a pack as most people will likely just make a new account anyways. and the room thing has me a bit irked that it will be temp, but i can likely do without it. really depends on how much it will cost in ark cash and how much ark cash translates to 1 USD

At first I was pissed at the whole one character slot thing and the My Room rentals, but I agree it does depend on the price of said things for me as well. Funny enough I don't think anything could keep me away from this game anyways Lol