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Ryo
Apr 16, 2012, 03:36 PM
Hey all,

I figured since PSO2 Beta is rapidly approaching, and we're likely going to be playing with some Japanese locals, it'd be cool to arm everyone with some quick and easy phrases since we don't have the luxuries PSO 1 afforded us at launch this time around (full localization).

Please find some phrases below, if you have any you want added, let me know and I'll do my best!


I'm a foreigner, so my Japanese isn't very good. Is that OK? - 私は外人ですから、良く日本語を分かれない。 それはけっこですか?



I'm a foreigner, so I can't speak Japanese. Is it alright if I speak English? - 私は外国人ですから、日本語を話すことができません。 英語で話す良いですか?




If you're able to speak English, it's OK to speak English with me. - あなたたちは英語を話すことができれば、私と英語を話すは良いです。




Is it alright if I play with you guys? - あなたたちと遊ぶ良いですか?

My name is XXXX. - 私の名前はXXXXです。

"Pleased to meet you" - よろしくお願いします!

Thank you very much! - ありがとうございます!

Use this when disbanding a party, it's a standard Japanese farewell. - おつかれさまでした!

I'm sorry I have to leave early. (Best used when having to unexpectedly quit after joining a party.) - お先に失礼します。

That was fun! - 楽しかった!

LOL - (w)

Would you like to trade items? - アイテムこうかんしましょう?

Help me! - 助けて!

"I understand. Sorry." - 分かりました。 すみません。

I’m looking for a party -  パーティを探しています。

Do you want to level together?-  一緒にレベルあげましょうか?

Please invite me? - 誘って下さい。

Can I join? - パーティ入っても良い?

Thank you for the party!-  PTありがとうございました!

Shall we go together? -  一緒に行きましょうか?

Can you please help me?- 手伝ってくれませんか?

Let me rest please ー  休ませて下さい。

I am a new player –  新しいプレーヤです。

Follow me please -  付いて来て下さい。

Stay here please -  ここに居て下さい。

I'm not in a hurry - 急いでいません。

I'm leaving soon -  もうすぐ出る。
I have to go soon -  行かなくては行けません。

Sorry, I have to go in 30 minutes. –  ごめんなさい、あと30分位で落ちます。

Sorry, but I have to go now -  すみません、もう、行かなくては行けません

I’m going to the toilet -  トイレ行って来ます。

I need to reboot, be back soon -  PCを再起動して、すぐ戻ります。

AFK –  離籍します

(I'm) Back –  再起動

Welcome back –  お帰り

Good luck –  がんばって

Don’t worry, it’s okay – 良いです。

Hurray! / Yay! - やった!

Great job! - Yokuyatta! (masculine) Yattane! (feminine) 良くやった! やったね!

Congratulations! - Omedeto! おめでとう!

Wow! – Sugoi! すごい!

Take care! – Kiotsukete! 気を付けて。

Ark22
Apr 16, 2012, 03:37 PM
Gonna have this copied to a notepad and hanging on my window so I can alt tab to it

Aiex
Apr 16, 2012, 03:39 PM
My Japanese isn't the best, but I think there are some mistakes in there.

Ryo
Apr 16, 2012, 03:40 PM
My Japanese isn't the best, but I think there are some mistakes in there.

I'm by no means fluent, but if you point them out I'll do my best to either correct you or correct the phrase :)

Brimcon
Apr 16, 2012, 03:43 PM
Perhaps have this in a Google Document? So you can add to it dynamically at any time,

I started one here.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bBvjy665lD9d1YuiefZrmpQCHPyuB5tJTQu3Mth3DUs/edit

I'll make it so you can edit it Ryo, I just need a Gmail or something. Perhaps PM me it?

Macman
Apr 16, 2012, 03:43 PM
私は外人ですから、良く日本語を分かれない。 それはけっこですか?

I'm a foreigner, so my Japanese isn't very good. Is that OK?This one's going to cause all sorts of bad shit to happen to you, I'm sure.

Ioriya
Apr 16, 2012, 03:43 PM
If i don't know ANY japanese. What would i say?

How would i say,

"I don't know MoonSpeak or MoonRunes."

Griffin
Apr 16, 2012, 03:43 PM
What if they reply? You're screwed?

Ryo
Apr 16, 2012, 03:46 PM
What if they reply? You're screwed?

Added a phrase explaining you can only speak English near the top :)

Kudwafter
Apr 16, 2012, 03:55 PM
maybe one that says
"If you happen to know any english, don't be afraid to speak it"

Or something along the lines of that >.>

Lenette
Apr 16, 2012, 03:55 PM
Good idea :> this might come in handy for some people~
here's some i've found that may be useful

I’m looking for a party - Party wo sagashite imasu
Do you want to level together? - Isshoni level agemasuka?
Please invite me? - Sasotte kudasai
Can I join? - Party ni haittemo ii? / Sankashiteiidesuka?
Thank you for the hard work! – Otsukaresama!
Thank you for the party! - PT arigatou gozaimashita!
Shall we go together? - Isshoni ikimashouka?
Can you please help me? - Tetsudatte kuremasenka?
Let me rest please - Yasumasete kudasai **
I am a new player – Atarashii pureeyaa desu.
Follow me please - Tsuitekite kudasai.
Stay here please - Kokoni ite kudasai
I'm not in a hurry - Isoide imasen.
I'm leaving soon - Moo sugu deru
I have to go soon - Ikanakutewa ikemasen
Sorry, I have to go in 30 minutes. – Gomennasai, ato 30pun gurai de ochimasu.
Sorry, but I have to go now - Sumimasen, moo ikanakutewa ikemasen
I’m going to the toilet - Toire (toilet) ittekimasu
I need to reboot, be back soon - PC wo saikidou shite, sugu modorimasu

AFK – Riseki shimasu
(I'm) Back – Tadaima / Tada
Welcome back – Okaerinasai / Okaeri
Good luck – Ganbatte
This is fun - Tanoshiine
Don’t worry, it’s okay – Ii desu
Hurray! / Yay! - Yatta!
Great job! - Yokuyatta! (masculine) Yattane! (feminine)
Congratulations! - Omedeto!
Wow! – Sugoi!
Help! – Tasukete!
Take care! – Kiotsukete!

Do you speak english? - Anata wa eigo / あなたは(英語
My Japanese is bad. - Watashi no nihongo wa heta desu. / 私の日本語はへたです。
I don't speak Japanese - Nihongo wa hanasemasen / 日本語は話せません

Griffin
Apr 16, 2012, 03:57 PM
Can you put one for "I understand. Sorry.", because I'm pretty sure I'll be rejected. >:U

Ryo
Apr 16, 2012, 04:00 PM
maybe one that says
"If you happen to know any english, don't be afraid to speak it"

Or something along the lines of that >.>


Added the following for you:

あなたたちは英語を話すことができれば、私と英語を話すは良いです。

If you're able to speak English, it's OK to speak English with me.

Ryo
Apr 16, 2012, 04:03 PM
Can you put one for "I understand. Sorry.", because I'm pretty sure I'll be rejected. >:U

分かりました。 すみません。

"I understand. Sorry."

Griffin
Apr 16, 2012, 04:03 PM
分かりました。 すみません。

"I understand. Sorry."

Thanks. I'll be using that alot.

Ryo
Apr 16, 2012, 04:04 PM
Good idea :> this might come in handy for some people~
here's some i've found that may be useful

I’m looking for a party - Party wo sagashite imasu
Do you want to level together? - Isshoni level agemasuka?
Please invite me? - Sasotte kudasai
Can I join? - Party ni haittemo ii? / Sankashiteiidesuka?
Thank you for the hard work! – Otsukaresama!
Thank you for the party! - PT arigatou gozaimashita!
Shall we go together? - Isshoni ikimashouka?
Can you please help me? - Tetsudatte kuremasenka?
Let me rest please - Yasumasete kudasai **
I am a new player – Atarashii pureeyaa desu.
Follow me please - Tsuitekite kudasai.
Stay here please - Kokoni ite kudasai
I'm not in a hurry - Isoide imasen.
I'm leaving soon - Moo sugu deru
I have to go soon - Ikanakutewa ikemasen
Sorry, I have to go in 30 minutes. – Gomennasai, ato 30pun gurai de ochimasu.
Sorry, but I have to go now - Sumimasen, moo ikanakutewa ikemasen
I’m going to the toilet - Toire (toilet) ittekimasu
I need to reboot, be back soon - PC wo saikidou shite, sugu modorimasu

AFK – Riseki shimasu
(I'm) Back – Tadaima / Tada
Welcome back – Okaerinasai / Okaeri
Good luck – Ganbatte
This is fun - Tanoshiine
Don’t worry, it’s okay – Ii desu
Hurray! / Yay! - Yatta!
Great job! - Yokuyatta! (masculine) Yattane! (feminine)
Congratulations! - Omedeto!
Wow! – Sugoi!
Help! – Tasukete!
Take care! – Kiotsukete!

Do you speak english? - Anata wa eigo / あなたは(英語
My Japanese is bad. - Watashi no nihongo wa heta desu. / 私の日本語はへたです。
I don't speak Japanese - Nihongo wa hanasemasen / 日本語は話せません

Great list, Linette! I'll add them to the OP.

Mag-X
Apr 16, 2012, 04:11 PM
I found on PSU, if you could say "hello," "thank you," "congratulation," and "good game" in Japanese (with Japanese letters) most people wouldn't even notice I was a filthy gaijin.

AC9breaker
Apr 16, 2012, 04:15 PM
"HOWDU IRU SHOTU WEBBU?" is Japanese for "How do I shot web?" It's a commonly used phrase in Japan.

Oh just remembered another one,

"Notto disu shitto agen "is Japanese for "Not this shit again." another commonly used japanese saying.

soulpimpwizzurd
Apr 16, 2012, 04:18 PM
This one's going to cause all sorts of bad shit to happen to you, I'm sure.

man did i lol

some other stuff that's more slangy i guess

落ちた = disconnected/dc (literally means fell)

since everybody laughs at people's misfortune, if someone seems like they dc'ed say this for humor
wwwXさん落ちたみたいですねww = lololololol X seems like he disconnected lololl

you'll also see variations of おつかれさま, like:
お2です
おつ
o2

they're all short for おつかれさま.

おk = ok

OP got everything else really necessary though. i honestly agree with macman though. i'd use dat gaijin sentence with caution.

ARASHIKAGE
Apr 16, 2012, 04:22 PM
Gonna have this copied to a notepad and hanging on my window so I can alt tab to it

I was thinking the exact same thing as I was reading your post.


Thanks for this info Ryo, and good to see you got your account back!

Gilbert_Deming
Apr 16, 2012, 04:22 PM
私は外人ですから、良く日本語を分かれない。 それはけっこですか?

I'm a foreigner, so my Japanese isn't very good. Is that OK?

私は外国人ですから、日本語を話すことができません。 英語で話す良いですか?

I'm a foreigner, so I can't speak Japanese. Is it alright if I speak English?


あなたたちは英語を話すことができれば、私と英語を話すは良いです。

If you're able to speak English, it's OK to speak English with me.

Why do i get the feeling that if your ANYTHING BUT Japanese, ill get shot?

Brimcon
Apr 16, 2012, 04:24 PM
I was thinking the exact same thing as I was reading your post.


Thanks for this info Ryo, and good to see you got your account back!

Check my post on the first page for a google doc, Ryo should have gotten the invite so he can start adding to it.

soulpimpwizzurd
Apr 16, 2012, 04:38 PM
私は外人ですから、良く日本語を分かれない。 それはけっこですか?

I'm a foreigner, so my Japanese isn't very good. Is that OK?

私は外国人ですから、日本語を話すことができません。 英語で話す良いですか?

I'm a foreigner, so I can't speak Japanese. Is it alright if I speak English?


あなたたちは英語を話すことができれば、私と英語を話すは良いです。

If you're able to speak English, it's OK to speak English with me.

Why do i get the feeling that if your ANYTHING BUT Japanese, ill get shot?

you honestly shouldn't get that feeling. i played JP dragon nest and everybody is surprisingly nice. it probably helped that i could talk a decent amount with them but none of them had problems with me being a gaijin. in fact some thought it was kinda cool. just mind your manners and you're good.

which stinks, because i like joking and messing around in games like this, but yeah they're not really jokers. a good amount of them are serious, although some laid back ones are here and there.

Ryo
Apr 16, 2012, 04:39 PM
Check my post on the first page for a google doc, Ryo should have gotten the invite so he can start adding to it.

google doc is updated.


I was thinking the exact same thing as I was reading your post.


Thanks for this info Ryo, and good to see you got your account back!

Thanks, glad to be back! Hope this info is of some help to everyone!

soulpimpwizzurd
Apr 16, 2012, 05:01 PM
Thanks, glad to be back! Hope this info is of some help to everyone!

you just lost all of your merit gained from posting this thread due to this heinous double post ;)

the winking smiley indicates that i jest

Ryo
Apr 16, 2012, 05:26 PM
you just lost all of your merit gained from posting this thread due to this heinous double post ;)

the winking smiley indicates that i jest

OH NOES. Also, I'm just too lazy in general to do more than one quote per post, especially since I'm sneaking to do these at work!

shiink
Apr 16, 2012, 05:37 PM
@Ryo

リョーさん、ありがとうございました。日本語の語句は助かりました。

I think that this thread will be very helpful. Thanks for putting it together. Looking forward to the beta.

Brimcon
Apr 16, 2012, 05:40 PM
I look forward to playing the beta with you all, have we decided a ship yet or is that in another thread?

Ryo
Apr 16, 2012, 05:43 PM
@Ryo

リョーさん、ありがとうございました。日本語の語句は助かりました。

I think that this thread will be very helpful. Thanks for putting it together. Looking forward to the beta.

どういたしまして、シインクさん!

Opy
Apr 16, 2012, 06:59 PM
Very nice, thank you.

Spellbinder
Apr 16, 2012, 07:15 PM
Someone of these phrases do look a little odd, so if you're still looking for someone to give these phrases a once over for correctness, I can give them a once over later today.

Ryo
Apr 16, 2012, 08:06 PM
Someone of these phrases do look a little odd, so if you're still looking for someone to give these phrases a once over for correctness, I can give them a once over later today.

Of course! I didn't write all of these, and even then, I'm not fluent; tips are appreciated!

moorebounce
Apr 16, 2012, 08:27 PM
I think there will be enough english speaking players. I suggest putting "(en)" in the title of your of your room, mission or quest.

Zyrusticae
Apr 16, 2012, 10:44 PM
Well, this is an extremely helpful thread.

And it highlights just how bloody terrible my kanji vocabulary is. Cripes! At least I can understand most of these when read aloud...

Ark22
Apr 16, 2012, 10:49 PM
Japanese player: ハロー

Me: AHHHHHH IM SORRY *leaves room*

Japanese player: それは私が言ったものだった....

This will happen to me.

astronautcowboy
Apr 17, 2012, 12:09 AM
Dudes, you shouldn't refer to yourselves as 外人 -- use 外国人 instead. 外人 is often used as a derogatory, especially towards foreigners in Japan that are actually like idiots, but friendly government employees like myself are not immune to being isolated for my skin and hair color either.


I'm a foreigner, so my Japanese isn't very good. Is that OK? - 私は外国人ですから、日本語が分かりません。 それでも結構ですか?



I'm a foreigner, so I can't speak Japanese. Is it alright if I speak English? - 私は外国人ですから、日本語を話すことができません。 英語で話してもいいですか?




If you're able to speak English, it's OK to speak English with me. - あなたたちは英語を話すことができれば、ぜひ英語で話してもいいです。




Is it alright if I play with you guys? - あなたたちと遊んでもいいですか?

My name is XXXX. - 私の名前はXXXXです。

"Pleased to meet you" - よろしくお願いします!

Thank you very much! - ありがとうございます!

Use this when disbanding a party, it's a standard Japanese farewell. - おつかれさまでした!

I'm sorry I have to leave early. (Best used when having to unexpectedly quit after joining a party.) - お先に失礼します。

That was fun! - 楽しかった!

LOL - (w) also (笑)

Would you like to trade items? - アイテムこうかんしましょう? (アイテム交換しましょう?)

Help me! - 助けて!

"I understand. Sorry." - 分かりました。 すみません。

I’m looking for a party -  パーティを探しています。

Do you want to level together?-  一緒にレベルあげましょうか?

Please invite me. - 誘って下さい。

Can I join? - パーティーに入ってもいい?

Thank you for the party!-  PTありがとうございました!

Shall we go together? -  一緒に行きましょうか?

Can you please help me?- 手伝ってくれませんか?

Let me rest please ー  休ませて下さい。

I am a new player –  新しいプレイヤーです。

Follow me please -  付いて来て下さい。

Stay here please -  ここにいて下さい。

I'm not in a hurry - 急いでいません。

I'm leaving soon -  もうすぐ出る。

I have to go soon -  行かなくては行けません。

Sorry, I have to go in 30 minutes. –  ごめんなさい、あと30分位で落ちます。

Sorry, but I have to go now -  すみません、もう、行かなくては行けません

I’m going to the toilet -  トイレ行って来ます。

I need to reboot, be back soon -  PCを再起動して、すぐ戻ります。

AFK –  離籍します

(I'm) Back –  再起動

Welcome back –  お帰り

Good luck –  がんばって

Don’t worry, it’s okay – いいです。

Hurray! / Yay! - やった!

Great job! - Yokuyatta! (masculine) Yattane! (feminine) 良くやった! やったね!

Congratulations! - Omedeto! おめでとう!

Wow! – Sugoi! すごい!

Take care! – Kiotsukete! 気を付けて。

I decided to flex my 2級 muscles and fixed some grammar in there for you. I also took out the 良 kanji because it's not very commonly used and too much kanji can come off a little strong.

I couldn't check the whole thing, because a lot of it is probably net-game lingo that I'm not familiar with yet. However, verb/adjective conjuctions like 遊ぶ良い definitely needs て-form to be grammatically correct. Either something like 遊んでいい? or 遊んでもいい?

You could also add (泣) which means that you're sad. (Opposite of "lol")

EDIT: Oh, and 分かれない is kind of an odd case - literally translated, you'd think it meant I can't understand, but 分からない does the job just find in that case. I've tried use 分かれる before, but either women think you are breaking up with them or that you are about to go use karate on the wooden boards.

I don't know if you all actually wanted a Japanese lesson, but I thought I'd explain why I changed what I did.

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 12:14 AM
Just going to go through and make some corrections from what I know and from what I've seen Japanese players use.



I'm a foreigner, so my Japanese isn't very good. Is that OK?
外国人だから、良く日本語が分かれない。それは大丈夫? (casual)
外国人なので、日本語がよくわからないんです。それは大丈夫ですか。(politer)


I'm a foreigner, so I can't speak Japanese. Is it alright if I speak English?
外国人だから、日本語が話せないんだ。英語で話していい? (casual)
外国人なので、日本語が話せないんです。英語で話しても良いですか。 (politer)
外国人なので、日本語を話すことが出来ないんです。英語で話しても良いですか。(also politer)



If you're able to speak English, it's OK to speak English with me.
英語を話すことが出来たら、英語で話していいです。
英語が話せたら、英語で話していいです。
(these are both rather polite, but not sure what kind of reaction you'll get using this phrase)


Is it alright if I play with you guys? (when first entering a room)
参加してもよろしいですか。
入っても良いですか。
(common replies if yes, 良いですよ。 どうぞ。 よろしく~! etc.)

My name is XXXX.
XXXX と言います。(sounds less textbookish)
私はXXXXです。

Use this when disbanding a party, it's a standard Japanese farewell. - おつかれさまでした!

I'm sorry I have to leave early. (Best used when having to unexpectedly quit after joining a party.)
すみません。急な用事が入ったので、今から落ちます。

Let me rest please
ちょっと休憩していいですか (this is asking to take a short break)

I am a new player
初心者です。 (means a beginner)

Stay here please
ここで待ってください。(literally means please wait here)

I'm leaving soon
もうすぐ落ちます。
そろそろ落ちます。(this is more like "right now")

I have to go soon  
行かなくては行けません。(I would remove this from the list. it's hard to understand without context)

Sorry, I have to go in 30 minutes.
ごめんなさい、あと30分ぐらいで落ちます。

Sorry, but I have to go now -  
すみません、もう、行かなくては行けません (I'm not native, but this phrase looks weird)

I’m going to the toilet
トイレ行って来ます。
WC (acronym for water closet, they'll know what it means if you use it :))

I need to reboot, be back soon
PCを再起動して、すぐ戻ります。

AFK
離席します (I guess that was a typo? 離籍 is removal from the family register O.o)
席を外します (more common than the previous phrase)

(I'm) Back
ただいま
再起動 (this means to reboot like a computer)


Edit: Thanks Jyasupa for confirming my gut feeling for 「そろそろ落ちます。」

astronautcowboy
Apr 17, 2012, 12:21 AM
AFK - 離席します (I guess that was a typo? 離籍 is removal from the family register O.o)

Whoa, I totally overlooked that one. (Assumed it was some crazy PSU lingo.)

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 12:23 AM
Also when using kanji be careful you don't use the wrong one ><
For example on OP's post:
AFK –  離籍します
りせきします
Riseki shimasu

The "riseki" used in this means to remove oneself from their family register.
Usually Japanese just use せきを外す / せきをはずす / seki wo hazusu
for brb/afk

lolderp spellbinder posted before me.
Also @spellbinder:
I'm leaving soon
もうすぐ落ちます。
そろそろ落ちます。(I feel like this is more like "right now," can anyone confirm?)
Yupppp, そろそろ implies right now or "It's about time I...." ~

Thanks for the confirmation. I was going off of instinct but just wanted to be sure. :P

Menochi
Apr 17, 2012, 12:47 AM
If you're able to speak English, it's OK to speak English with me.
英語を話すことが出来たら、英語で話していいです。
英語が話せたら、英語で話していいです。
(these are both rather polite, but not sure what kind of reaction you'll get using this phrase)

I remember trying it years ago on PSOBB and was met with disgruntled comments. I suspect it has to do with how Americans are often perceived as self-righteous and indignant and everyone they interact with has to speak English for them. If you want to clarify your language origin, instead of saying 外国人(gaikokujin) you could specify your origin as substitute. 米国人 (beikokujin) or アメリカ人 (amerikajin) for Americans, ヨーロッパ人 (yo-roppajin) for Europeans, etc.

Just like in English, words have social connotation that may not make sense. While the phrase "social intercourse" still applicably means social interactions, it is more commonly said as discourse even if there isn't any arguing or disagreeing.

astronautcowboy
Apr 17, 2012, 12:56 AM
That's a good point. You don't have to say you're a foreigner - you can just say that you're a whatever-人 instead.

RocSage
Apr 17, 2012, 01:10 AM
Can't I just say "I am the terror that flaps in the night, I am the headache in the criminal mind."
Followed by a "Let's Get Dangerous!"

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 01:27 AM
Can't I just say "I am the terror that flaps in the night, I am the headache in the criminal mind."
Followed by a "Let's Get Dangerous!"

It depends on how familiar they are with Darkwing Duck. :P

soulpimpwizzurd
Apr 17, 2012, 01:27 AM
我は夜の中に飛んでいる恐怖、我は犯人の脳にある頭痛

レッツゲットデンジャラッス!!!!!!!!!

please use this as a form of greeting and take screenshots of reactions

i will happiness unlimited

Brimcon
Apr 17, 2012, 01:45 AM
I appreciate all the input from everyone, the Google Doc has gone over a few revisions after seeing these posts, and I would like some input on the layout and the like, Don't hesitate to post comments and the like on lines you'd like to see changed.

I will be checking this thread often! Keep me and Ryo updated, and if you would like access to the document, shoot me your gmail in a PM so I can get you on it.

Also, Ryo, might want to add the link to the doc on the first post so people can see it easier.

KyAniki
Apr 17, 2012, 03:18 AM
Just putting in my two cents as a 4+ year student of Japanese.

Definitely be careful of who you say 外人 to- it's not a very PC term and so it makes some Japanese people feel uncomfortable. 外国人 is better and saying your country-人 is probably best. (Here's a list that I just glanced over that seems ok- http://www.coscom.co.jp/learnjapanese901/country.html) I think, if you know any Japanese, you should at least try to communicate a little- Maybe you'll make a new friend!

I asked a 日本人 about the use of 良い instead of いい and to him, it seems just a tad unnatural to be used in an online game- like you are trying to use the kanji just for the sake of using kanji but, of course, it's not wrong.

Ahh, looking forward to having to look up incredible amounts of kanji when I finally get to play this game!

voxie
Apr 17, 2012, 06:42 AM
Nice phrase list, thanks Ryo. Copied it over to the FB fan page docs as well (andquoted you of course^^)

Arika
Apr 17, 2012, 06:55 AM
私は外人ですから、良く日本語を分かれない。 それはけっこですか?

It is weird to me to say that you yourself is gaijin. Normally we don't mention our own to be a foreigner.

I think the better say would be (私は)日本人じゃありませんですから。 [It mean : " I'm not a japanese"]
()part can be cut off for short and more common.

there are many more sentence that give me kidda weird feeling, but I don't know how to fix it for the best either, since I m not that good in language myself. but it just feel uncommon.

shiink
Apr 17, 2012, 07:46 AM
私は外人ですから、良く日本語を分かれない。 それはけっこですか?

It is weird to me to say that you yourself is gaijin. Normally we don't mention our own to be a foreigner.

I think the better say would be (私は)日本人じゃありませんですから。
()part can be cut off for short and more common.

there are many more sentence that give me kidda weird feeling, but I don't know how to fix it for the best either, since I m not that good in language myself. but it just feel uncommon.

I'll have to agree with this. I generally avoid talking about the fact that I am not Japanese unless asked specifically by a person. In which case the best answer is your place of origin. I also find it ironic that even after divulging my lack of Japanese blood I am telling them that it is okay to speak japanese with me (but thats just because I like the practice). That usually happens when I either screw up some phrase, or they are being friendly and notice that sometimes my speaking is "a little too correct" because they love slang as much as we do.

Tycho
Apr 17, 2012, 08:17 AM
私は外人ですから、良く日本語を分かれない。 それはけっこですか?
It is weird to me to say that you yourself is gaijin.

I think the better say would be (私は)日本人じゃありませんですから。
Grammatically there's like ten things striking about the first sentence (use astronautcowboy's instead), though in this context it gets the point across all the better.

As for the second, stacking polite verbs makes it sound like maid speech (drop です), though if used in isolation the から seems odd as well (my IME isn't working now, but try ending with 'ga ...').

On 分かれない as mentioned by astronautcowboy, potential form (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_verb_conjugation#Potential) doesn't exist for 分かる, as it's closer in meaning to '[litt. to be divided so as] to be comprehensible', with its transitive counterpart 分かれる meaning 'to divide' (like chopping bricks as mentioned). A derived meaning, but point being, the subject is a thing rather than a person, so adding 'can' there adds no meaning (same as for trying to add 'can/able' to comprehensible in English) and thus makes no sense.

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 09:20 AM
Pretty soon we're going to have to start a Japanese class on the forum. (΄・ω・`) Who's the Tuesday Thursday teacher? (calls dibs on wednesdays).

RocSage
Apr 17, 2012, 09:31 AM
我は夜の中に飛んでいる恐怖、我は犯人の脳にある頭痛

レッツゲットデンジャラッス!!!!!!!!!

please use this as a form of greeting and take screenshots of reactions

i will happiness unlimited

haha, you're going to get a lot of people hated on for quote darkwing duck. :-P



I hate kanji and katakana and copy and pasting stuff like this so I likely won't be using this stuff ever. I don't find the symbols for Japanese, Chinese, and korean to be easily readable so I've never been able to pick it up in that form and I never spoke japanese to remember it.

I could probably pick it up but even if I did i'd lose it again since I never get a chance to use any of the stuff I learn, especially not languages.

shiink
Apr 17, 2012, 10:00 AM
Pretty soon we're going to have to start a Japanese class on the forum. (΄・ω・`) Who's the Tuesday Thursday teacher? (calls dibs on wednesdays).

Well I am completely self-taught japanese (and still studying) I have talked to friends and even my siblings who have taken formal japanese class and they have found it less effective and a bit cumbersome. It's difficult in my experience to learn a language in a "Scientific" manner. (I have taken many years of Latin and it was just that "scientific")

I reccommend using this website http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/ . I incorporate a lot of his study methods (though I am not nearly as hardcore) and found them helpful. People think im crazy when I tell them that I learn japanese from playing video games and watching anime. Anyway its just a thought for anyone who wants to learn more.

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 10:32 AM
Well I am completely self-taught japanese (and still studying) I have talked to friends and even my siblings who have taken formal japanese class and they have found it less effective and a bit cumbersome. It's difficult in my experience to learn a language in a "Scientific" manner. (I have taken many years of Latin and it was just that "scientific")

I reccommend using this website http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/ . I incorporate a lot of his study methods (though I am not nearly as hardcore) and found them helpful. People think im crazy when I tell them that I learn japanese from playing video games and watching anime. Anyway its just a thought for anyone who wants to learn more.

I think it just depends on the person and the method of learning that's preferred. I saw that website a few years ago, but (in my humble opinion) it isn't necessarily bringing anything new to the table in terms of learning methods. If I'm not mistaken the site even admits the methods employed were based on the study methods of others, but I digress. Sentence mining has been proven to work, so there's no sense in trying to say it's a bad method when it's obviously not. I'll be graduating soon (granted I pass my exams tomorrow >.>) majoring in Japanese and plan to employ the sentence mining method myself.

I'd only say be careful of what media sources you try to derive your Japanese from. I've heard horror stories from Japanese friends (and have witnessed in person) the results of not being careful when learning from manga, anime, and games.

RocSage
Apr 17, 2012, 10:47 AM
I'd only say be careful of what media sources you try to derive your Japanese from. I've heard horror stories from Japanese friends (and have witnessed in person) the results of not being careful when learning from manga, anime, and games.

Yeah. From what little i know there are a ton of errors in entertainment stuff because they localize the text, sometimes for the better, but often times I feel it takes away from the text and degrades the person consuming the entertainment. The official stuff almost always does this type of stuff so you almost never get a 1 to 1 translation.

Where as the non-official stuff you often get a more 1 to 1 translation, but there is a reason many of these people are not doing this professionally. It's either because they are students or just not that good at the language itself. And not to mention you always have to take into consideration that most people who speak English don't quite have a decent grasp of it. So even if they are good at figuring out what it says in the other language they still could miss so much or imply things that are not there because their word choice is awful, or they have bad editors.

I'll often read scanlated manga and wonder how anyone could read it and not notice how many missed words there are or how much poor grammar there is.

Since I don't really care to learn the languages directly as it stand right now I don't really concentrate on the language so much as the sound of what is being said and use the general knowledge of the language I have in correlation with text to form a more accurate image of what is happening, because relying on the subs or dubs alone will lead to confusion due to those errors or localizations.

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 10:52 AM
Actually I'm not referring to learning based on the translations, I'm referring to the raw Japanese media. It's not uncommon for characters to say certain things or speak in a certain way that in normal circumstances would be seen as strange. If someone doesn't know better and picks up on it when learning, they can develop habits that sound very strange when speaking Japanese (like one of the students at my school, but he's another story altogether).

RocSage
Apr 17, 2012, 10:56 AM
Actually I'm not referring to learning based on the translations, I'm referring to the raw Japanese media. It's not uncommon for characters to say certain things or speak in a certain way that in normal circumstances would be seen as strange. If someone doesn't know better and picks up on it when learning, they can develop habits that sound very strange when speaking Japanese (like one of the students at my school, but he's another story altogether).

You mean like adding a word to the end of a sentence? I know some characters add desu to everything they say.

But that just means it is doubly bad for the reasons i said and the reason you said.

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 11:03 AM
You mean like adding a word to the end of a sentence? I know some characters add desu to everything they say.

But that just means it is doubly bad for the reasons i said and the reason you said.

It can be anything from adding words in a sentence to using words / phrases that aren't suitable to the relations between the speaker and listener from the perspective of social hierarchy, or just things that have no meaning beyond the context of the source media.

shiink
Apr 17, 2012, 11:04 AM
Yes I completely understand. And as I admitted I do not use ALL of his techniques but some of them I did find useful. Mostly reguarding the "immersion factor" and the repeition routine. I'm very well aware that many things are colloquialized since I primarily focused on learning what is known as "Standard Japanese" as opposed to a dialect. Though it is important to be aware as such colloquialisms but I do not neccessarily use them. I use writing and grammar books just as much as other people might, but I don't use it the same way someone uses the quadratic equation. I agree that sentence mining is effective the idea is trying to learn a second language similarly to the way you learned your first in a more natural way. Even though we all went through grade school learning the rules of english even though we were speaking it everyday. </2cents>

RocSage
Apr 17, 2012, 11:37 AM
Yes I completely understand. And as I admitted I do not use ALL of his techniques but some of them I did find useful. Mostly reguarding the "immersion factor" and the repeition routine. I'm very well aware that many things are colloquialized since I primarily focused on learning what is known as "Standard Japanese" as opposed to a dialect. Though it is important to be aware as such colloquialisms but I do not neccessarily use them. I use writing and grammar books just as much as other people might, but I don't use it the same way someone uses the quadratic equation. I agree that sentence mining is effective the idea is trying to learn a second language similarly to the way you learned your first in a more natural way. Even though we all went through grade school learning the rules of english even though we were speaking it everyday. </2cents>

But as pointed out, that whole learning english thing didn't really stick with a lot of people. lol.

I find languages easy to figure out, more or less, because there is somewhat of a lingual math at work. There is only so many ways to put together a sentence so it is mostly just figuring out how they are putting their sentence together, what the indicators are, and then from there it is just building up a vocabulary.

The fact that we start from english as our base gives us an advantage because our language is so dynamic it makes us consider all the possible formulations and understand them where as in other languages more often than not there are strict rules to how to put together a sentence.

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 11:45 AM
Well yes grammatically speaking there are many strict rules in Japanese (which I think helps make it easier), but if I had a time for every time my teacher said "grammatically, it's perfect, but it's not natural...". :P

Arika
Apr 17, 2012, 11:57 AM
Add "desu" is fine.
generally it is not common for japanese to say "desu" to their friends. But they says it when they respects the person they talked to.(such as boss or elder)
It is also a basic when you start learning Japanese.

So If you gonna pretend to be a foreigner who not know much about Japanese anyway, you should just saying basic word like this instead of the harder word that would cause them to believe you may fake it.

Another plus side is that this "desu" word mean to respect the listener. He will have better affinity toward you. (for those who afriad of being kicked, yes.. it will make you less likely get kicked too :P )



@shiink (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/member.php?u=68965) : what I meant there is that. instead or Ryo sentence that mean "I m a foreigner, please bare my language" It is more common to says "I m not Japanese, please bare my language"

Ioriya
Apr 17, 2012, 12:02 PM
Best way to not get kicked is by not saying anything at all.

hue...

BIG OLAF
Apr 17, 2012, 12:04 PM
Seems so silly to me that they would boot you for simply not being Japanese. Even sillier that if they 'catch' you trying to fake it, they also boot you. The hell is wrong with those people? I have just as much a right to play the game I want to play as they do, regardless of my nationality.

EDIT: On a semi-related note, I take it putting your character's name in English (and not katakana or whatever) is going to be a one-way ticket to mockery and ridicule in the eyes of the Japanese players? Just want to know beforehand.

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 12:12 PM
Add "desu" is fine.
generally it is not common for japanese to say "desu" to their friends. But they says it when they respects the person they talked to.(such as boss or elder)
It is also a basic when you start learning Japanese.

So If you gonna pretend to be a foreigner who not know much about Japanese anyway, you should just saying basic word like this instead of the harder word that would cause them to believe you may fake it.

Another plus side is that this "desu" word mean to respect the listener. He will have better affinity toward you. (for those who afriad of being kicked, yes.. it will make you less likely get kicked too :P )

On the topic of ~です, please keep in mind that its very unusual (I actually can't recall ever seeig this in day to day living actually) to use です after the long form of a verb. So in the above sentence you had:

....日本人じゃありませんですから....

The です there is simply unnecessary because you're already using the long-negative form of である which is じゃありません. If you used じゃない then it's not uncommon to use じゃないですから. But even there you'd probably want to drop です in spoken Japanese for things I shouldn't get into right now since I should be studying. ^^;

Brimcon
Apr 17, 2012, 12:18 PM
-boggle- All these lines, so confusing.. does the Google Doc look good though? or does that need to be edited some more? should I add more to it?

kyuuketsuki
Apr 17, 2012, 12:18 PM
Seems so silly to me that they would boot you for simply not being Japanese. Even sillier that if they 'catch' you trying to fake it, they also boot you. The hell is wrong with those people? I have just as much a right to play the game I want to play as they do, regardless of my nationality.
Well first, let's define "they". Who is "they"? Not all Japanese players are going to boot you from their game, ridicule you, or kick your dog if they find out you're not Japanese. I'm sure there are some who even enjoy playing with foreigners.

Now, while I don't defend any form of xenophobia, they're not preventing you from playing the game, so I don't understand a stance of moral outrage. If you join their group, and they don't want to play with someone who doesn't speak their language fluently, why shouldn't they be able to boot you?
EDIT: On a semi-related note, I take it putting your character's name in English (and not katakana or whatever) is going to be a one-way ticket to mockery and ridicule in the eyes of the Japanese players? Just want to know beforehand.
I doubt it. Many Japanese players do their names in Roman characters, so it doesn't really make you stick out much.

BIG OLAF
Apr 17, 2012, 12:22 PM
Well first, let's define "they". Who is "they"? Not all Japanese players are going to boot you from their game, ridicule you, or kick your dog if they find out you're not Japanese. I'm sure there are some who even enjoy playing with foreigners.

Now, while I don't defend any form of xenophobia, they're not preventing you from playing the game, so I don't understand a stance of moral outrage. If you join their group, and they don't want to play with someone who doesn't speak their language fluently, why shouldn't they be able to boot you?

I don't plan on joining any JP player's parties, so it doesn't really bug me that much. I was just stating what I think about the overall situation.


I doubt it. Many Japanese players do their names in Roman characters, so it doesn't really make you stick out much.

There's a bit of good news, at least. I wouldn't want to put my character's name in unintelligible chicken-scratch just to 'fit in.'

Griffin
Apr 17, 2012, 12:31 PM
In fact, I'll probably be waiting until I run into PSOW guys. Then we can mosey from there.

kyuuketsuki
Apr 17, 2012, 12:32 PM
I don't plan on joining any JP player's parties, so it doesn't really bug me that much. I was just stating what I think about the overall situation.
Eh, doesn't bug me. Overall it's pretty overblown, and westerners are as bad if not worse, so.
There's a bit of good news, at least. I wouldn't want to put my character's name in unintelligible chicken-scratch just to 'fit in.'
:< I happen to like the so-called "unintelligible chicken-scratch". 'Course, I can read it, as long as it's hiragana/katakana or within my Kanji vocabulary of maybe... 20.

RocSage
Apr 17, 2012, 12:37 PM
Everyone go around saying "Arimasuka" at the end of your sentences! That'll confuse them.

Link1275
Apr 17, 2012, 12:39 PM
Excuse me, but aren't the Japanese people under a law that forces them to take English in High School? If so all of the worries about them not being able to speak any English are unfounded.


Everyone go around saying "Arimasuka" at the end of your sentences! That'll confuse them.
That sounds like either non-sense or just a rude word. Which one is it?

Zinaida
Apr 17, 2012, 12:40 PM
Eh, doesn't bug me. Overall it's pretty overblown, and westerners are as bad if not worse, so.

Westerners are worse. Dear lord our gaming communities are much worse. You don't even need to be foreign for drama to start.

RocSage
Apr 17, 2012, 12:46 PM
Excuse me, but aren't the Japanese people under a law that forces them to take English in High School? If so all of the worries about them not being able to speak any English are unfounded.


Just about every country teaches English in school. it doesn't mean everyone is good at it, remembers it, or wants to use it. I once held a conversation consisting of a combination of 5 different languages which were used to communicate between two people directly, but if I had to do that all the time or when i didn't want to I'd probably be annoyed and try to remove the annoyance.



That sounds like either non-sense or just a rude word. Which one is it?

I forget what it means. A character in the manga Freezing says it all the time and apparently it is some archaic form of something that is supposed to convey respect or some such. From my understanding it'd be a bit like ending every sentence with "And I say that with the greatest respect to you"

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 12:54 PM
Excuse me, but aren't the Japanese people under a law that forces them to take English in High School? If so all of the worries about them not being able to speak any English are unfounded.

If by take English in High School you mean forced to sit in a class room bored like every other poor student in the world, then ya. I was required by my school to take German for several years growing up, but heaven knows I can't speak the language to save my life. It wouldn't surprise me that a Japanese person can read some English, but the capacity to hold conversation is an entirely different story.

Edit: We've come quite a long way from the original intent of this thread. ^^;

kyuuketsuki
Apr 17, 2012, 01:11 PM
That sounds like either non-sense or just a rude word. Which one is it?
Arimasu just means "to be", basically. Desu is really just a shorter way of saying arimasu and the meaning is identical. Like, "baka gaijin arimasu" just means "there is a stupid foreigner" (depending on context, of course). Then, "ka" is just a particle that marks it a question. So, taken literally, it doesn't make much sense to add it to the end of every sentence. It definitely isn't a rude word, at least.

Zyrusticae
Apr 17, 2012, 01:16 PM
Seems so silly to me that they would boot you for simply not being Japanese. Even sillier that if they 'catch' you trying to fake it, they also boot you. The hell is wrong with those people? I have just as much a right to play the game I want to play as they do, regardless of my nationality.

EDIT: On a semi-related note, I take it putting your character's name in English (and not katakana or whatever) is going to be a one-way ticket to mockery and ridicule in the eyes of the Japanese players? Just want to know beforehand.
What, you don't think JP or Korean or Chinese players doing the same thing on English servers wouldn't invite ridicule and scorn?

You have to put in at least some effort (even if it's just the bare minimum) to blend in to your peers, regardless of what nationality they are or what language they speak. It's a sign of respect and, frankly, it's just damn good manners. And in a game where teamwork is paramount, I really can't blame anyone for not being willing to put up with the antics of a teammate they can't communicate with. Hell, I'll kick anyone who can't listen to simple directions no matter what language they speak. Why should I put up with that kind of liability?

Furthermore, you can join other games, it's not like you MUST join that particular game and ruin those particular players' playtime.

Your egotistical whining reminds me of a spoiled child. Too much entitlement, not enough empathy or respect.

NoiseHERO
Apr 17, 2012, 01:23 PM
I wouldn't boot a guy for speaking chinese... or french. D:

This is kind of a common sense game where you don't even have to talk to each other. The only time you need... lol... "Teamwork" is on the real complicated special missions or event missions. And even then you wouldn't wanna play with random people, but your friends.

So... in general all of that drama should be completely avoidable "no matter what language they speak."

... Unless you don't have friends, or you take free missions too seriously (How do you have fun like that?) >_>;

Brimcon
Apr 17, 2012, 01:23 PM
Can we please stay on topic with this? Is there anything that should be changed to either the first post or the Google Document?

I could use more input on the document, as I feel it is very incomplete, and probably filled with grammatical errors and perhaps could be cleaned up. For example instead of foreigner, we could say we are not Japanese?

shiink
Apr 17, 2012, 01:27 PM
@shiink : what I meant there is that. instead or Ryo sentence that mean "I m a foreigner, please bare my language" It is more common to says "I m not Japanese, please bare my language"

Yes yet again totally agree. That is definitely a safer way to use a similar phrase. I commonly say this especially when they start trying to converse about certain technical things. But to get closer to the original topic. My experience is that generally speaking you will not have to have a in-depth conversation with the players and will only need to use the general list that has been put together in order to play the game. Just simple etiquette and you are mostly covered. Even if two players are babbling throughout the mission, they might just think you are a soft spoken person. Unless of course you are addressed directly then it would be a good idea to let them know that you aren't well versed in japanese.

AnnabellaRenee87
Apr 17, 2012, 01:29 PM
Thanks for the study guide in my Japanese quest :P

RocSage
Apr 17, 2012, 01:31 PM
The language barrier is simple to overcome without talking. All one must do is be skilled enough that they are recognized as having skill and not a drag on the group.

I've heard lots of complaints of stuff like what has been brought up in the negative in the past, but I've really not encountered any or much of it in my experience. Most of the things that you need to be informed of are in the quick text usually. If there is anything else just keep it simple and most people, even if they have no experience with other languages, thanks to modern tech, can figure it out pretty easy.

And from my personal experience there has only been 2 times when I have experience difficulties where it one might consider something rude.

#1. in FFXI. The tank in the group was so stupid and was japanese, but could speak a modicum of english, but wouldn't follow directions or play right.

#2. Me and another english speaker was kicked. What was happening was the other guy was acting dumb and the guy that kicked apologized in mail explaining what happened and that his friend just didn't feel like putting up with it any more.

Most other times when there is a "no English" thing I've either been accepted perfectly fine, or we were both perfectly polite and parted ways. And really every other situation I can think of I've experienced it on both side of the divide... and generally worse on the western side, though that might be a bit unfair as it's hard to know how much someone is a jerk without being able to understand them lol.

RocSage
Apr 17, 2012, 01:40 PM
How bout adding

Nihongo ga wakari masen. = I do not understand Japanese
and
English Wakari masuka? = Do you understand English?

and simply
iie = No
Hai = yes

Also learning basic numbers might be useful...
Ichi
ni
san
shi
go
roku
shichi or nana
hachi
kyuu
juu

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 01:42 PM
How bout adding

Nihongo ga wakari masen. = I do not understand Japanese
and
English Wakari masuka? = Do you understand English?

and simply
iie = No
Hai = yes

Also learning basic numbers might be useful...
Ichi
ni
san
shi
go
roku
shichi or nana
hachi
kyuu
juu

Don't forget you can also say yon for 4 as well ^_^ (I really should be studying, lol).

Brimcon
Apr 17, 2012, 01:46 PM
How bout adding

Nihongo ga wakari masen. = I do not understand Japanese
and
English Wakari masuka? = Do you understand English?

and simply
iie = No
Hai = yes

Also learning basic numbers might be useful...
Ichi
ni
san
shi
go
roku
shichi or nana
hachi
kyuu
juu

Is it okay to have these romanized? Or do we need the Kanji for them as well?

BIG OLAF
Apr 17, 2012, 01:48 PM
Your egotistical whining reminds me of a spoiled child. Too much entitlement, not enough empathy or respect.

Hello, Mr. Kettle. I'm Mr. Pot. Did you notice that we're both black?

I wasn't being 'egotistical', nor was I 'whining.' You just like to take everything I say and make it sound worse than it is, since you have a preconceived notion that I am a miserable pile of garbage (though that isn't completely untrue).

Anyway, I agree with whoever it was who said this should stay on topic.

and people wonder why I don't want to interact with most of this community in-game.

shiink
Apr 17, 2012, 01:49 PM
Is it okay to have these romanized? Or do we need the Kanji for them as well?

I would say that it's not an absolute requirement because most japanese people can read romanji. It depends on how badly you want to stick out. Even if you don't know the actual kanji if there are any it may be nice to write it in hiragana at least.

Zinaida
Apr 17, 2012, 01:52 PM
Hello, Mr. Kettle. I'm Mr. Pot. Did you notice that we're both black?


You're using it wrong, especially since your words were more aimed towards benefiting yourself, whereas Zyrusticae was simply saying you should have more respect. Also yes, you were whining, whether or not you intended it. If you didn't intend it that way, choose your wording more carefully and make your opinion seem less self-centered.

I don't really support off topic discussion, but it's ridiculous when someone tries to accuse another of being guilty of the same thing instead of properly defending their own opinion.

Edit: Actually, is this thread not only about quick phrases for those who cannot speak the language, but also discussing the etiquette of social interaction as well? If we want to be picky, this actually is about on topic as a lot of the posts already in this thread.

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 01:55 PM
How bout adding

Nihongo ga wakari masen. = I do not understand Japanese
and
English Wakari masuka? = Do you understand English?

and simply
iie = No
Hai = yes

Also learning basic numbers might be useful...
Ichi
ni
san
shi
go
roku
shichi or nana
hachi
kyuu
juu

日本語がわかりません / にほんごがわかりません = I don't understand Japanese

英語がわかりますか / えいごがわかりますか = Do you understand English?

いいえ = no
はい = yes

And numbers~

一 / いち = one
二 / に = two
三 / さん = three
四 / よん or し = four
五 / ご = five
六 / ろく = six
七 / なな or しち = seven
八 / はち = eight
九 / きゅう = nine
十 / じゅう = ten

soulpimpwizzurd
Apr 17, 2012, 02:02 PM
no guys no no please stop fighting :(

what do i do when i can't save anybody i feel powerless

i am sure this is a case of hunger induced grumpies, panda express is giving away free food on their facebook page eat and be happy

ontopic: starting greeting

一緒にがんばりましょう - lets do our best together

Brimcon
Apr 17, 2012, 02:03 PM
Actually, is this thread not only about quick phrases for those who cannot speak the language, but also discussing the etiquette of social interaction as well? If we want to be picky, this actually is about on topic as a lot of the posts already in this thread.

Yes, since etiquette is a HUGE part of the language, it should be discussed, lest things get lost in translation.

Also, I added the Kanji to the Document. Again guys, PM me if you want in the document as well, I could use more input and editors.

Finalzone
Apr 17, 2012, 04:45 PM
An opportunity to practice my basic japanese. Unfortunately, I cannot read Kanji (I have few native japanese who can't either).
A quick question, do I need to install Japanese package to type either kana on Windows 7? I am planning to run Wine on a Linux system .

shiink
Apr 17, 2012, 05:02 PM
An opportunity to practice my basic japanese. Unfortunately, I cannot read Kanji (I have few native japanese who can't either).
A quick question, do I need to install Japanese package to type either kana on Windows 7? I am planning to run Wine on a Linux system .

Well on Windows7 the software is included within the OS. Just enable the JP keyboard in the Regional and Language settings in the Control Panel (You might have to click to install the packages and do a reboot for it take effect)

You can also configure Ibus in Linux (depending on the distro) to type in Japanese
If you are planning to try and play PSO2 on Linux, I know that Gameguard doesn't play well with Wine at all. From what I understand the only way PSU can even be played that way is to bypass GG altogether.

Not sure if that answered your question or helped at all.

Finalzone
Apr 17, 2012, 05:54 PM
Well on Windows7 the software is included within the OS. Just enable the JP keyboard in the Regional and Language settings in the Control Panel (You might have to click to install the packages and to a reboot for it take effect)

You can also configure Ibus in Linux (depending on the distro to type in Japanese)
If you are planning to try and play PSO2 on Linux, I know that Gameguard doesn't play well with Wine at all. From what I understand the only way PSU can even be played that way is to bypass GG altogether.

Not sure if that answered your question or helped at all.

Your post greatly helped. I use Fedora as Linux distro which includes IBus by default. Too bad Sega relies on a rootkit for protection, they could choose a better protection mechanism like digital signature for example.

Omega-z
Apr 17, 2012, 07:13 PM
Spellbinder & RocSage - 4,7,9 use one set bwteen 1-10 and the other after that. so it's shi,shichi,ku then after 10 it's yon,nana,kyuu it's how JP do it base off a JP teacher. there are also some other changes at higher numbers like 300, instead of the normal Hyaku for the 100 place it's Byaku.

Xenobia
Apr 17, 2012, 07:40 PM
When they boot me they boot me, and when not simply not. In my experience i been booted more often by US or other non JP people than the JP people themself... means a lot.

So i do not actually worry, however, i may have some JP friends i play with (got them from Xboxlive, i played PSU with them) and they will make the stuff easyer for me.
Although, i had lot of experience with JP people and in FF11 i even was able to join a fully japanese guild... it works by simply asking and try to be nice. As i said, i have been kicked more often from non JP guilds and partys... thats part of my history. I do not truly believe into the difficulty of language barrier itself, but the difficulty to approach each others on a much more fundamental level. In general, JP mentality is pretty friendly. I usualy have harder time to get along with US, some of them just instantly kick me and i dont even know the reason.

JP usualy are telling me "JP only" and stuff like that... but US... when they hate me, they just boot me out and will give a bad feedback on Xboxlive. All that without a single word, kinda rude. So it doesnt matter how good i would be able to understand them... they wont discuss at all.

Its nice when you guys are trying to increase understanding by using those JP text shortcuts, but generally i do think, as long as someone stays truthful and just act honest it usualy works good. Just i wouldnt force it: When JP is worse... its probably easyer for them just trying to use proper (and simplified) english... some of them could be able to understand it, and then they simply will translate it for the others.

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 07:48 PM
Spellbinder & RocSage - 4,7,9 use one set bwteen 1-10 and the other after that. so it's shi,shichi,ku then after 10 it's yon,nana,kyuu it's how JP do it base off a JP teacher. there are also some other changes at higher numbers like 300, instead of the normal Hyaku for the 100 place it's Byaku.

Im sorry but thats false. For counting 1 to 10, 4 and 7 can take either reading, and 9 is read only kyuu. And im well aware of how numbets change when counting.

Xenobia
Apr 17, 2012, 08:12 PM
:D Well, good to know, then we can count to 10 for counting down our KO. Can be used on the amount of strikes aswell... iiiiiiiiiiichi! ... niiiiiiiiiiii, saaaaaaaaaaaaaan, shiiiii... and another strike to the enemy! And when its over... KO countdown!

Omega-z
Apr 17, 2012, 08:37 PM
Spellbinder - Not saying it can't be use both way's but there is a proper way to say it. The 9 ku is part of the On reading and is used. This is coming from a Native JP woman that lived there and was in big time show business in T.V. there and now is a Teacher of Japanese with many degree's that teaches proper Cultural usage. I'm sorry you don't agree but I'll take her word more.

Update - I noticed that your location say's your from JP....Now I'm wondering if the usage has been changed between the Older & Younger generations, It's not the first time that happened.

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 08:53 PM
I'll take the word of the Japanese college student sitting in the lounge here with me who I asked to confirm before posting as well as the texts and professors I've studied under. The only time I've ever heard someone say ku is when they are telling time and they use the ku reading and say ku ji. 4 and 7 can be read both ways when counting before 10, and use the readings shi and shichi when telling time as well. It's personal preference of the speaker.

Omega-z
Apr 17, 2012, 09:18 PM
Hmm... that's interesting. Could it be possible that it was personal preference of the speaker or usage at a later time to use it the other way then later adapted to use the current one. Reason why I ask is the Teacher Move to the US form the great country of Nippon in the mid 80's and is pretty old. Most likely Before your friend was born Maybec? and enough time for the professors to teach the current system. Like how the U.S. spoke Jive in the 20's but now today we don't or speak some other type of slang.

Spellbinder
Apr 17, 2012, 09:31 PM
It's actually pretty interesting if you read, for example, the yahoo pages where people ask. Everyone has a different answer depending on where they lived and who taught them. Some even claim you read one way counting up but the other way counting backwards. :P

shiink
Apr 17, 2012, 09:34 PM
Though I'm not terribly scholarly when it comes to languages in general. It is my understanding that generally the readings are by speakers preference. I have seen/heard either reading when counting. Although as you stated sometimes the consonant of a word will change due to rendaku (as in your example of when the word changes from hyaku to byaku).

Also keep in mind that the country of Japan has many regional dialects. Some only have minor changes like changing certain particals like (は -wa to ば - ba) or even entire words in the case of Okinawan Japanese since it is on a very isolated island on the very far southwest of the nation. I believe what Spellbinder is referencing is the conventions of "Standard Japanese" which is what all government publications are required to use as well is what is taught in the school system.

Omega-z
Apr 17, 2012, 09:41 PM
lol, wow that's odd but that makes sense Kind of like different people in the U.S. have different accents and say things differently. Example : the city Layton it's pronounced Lay' Ton' but people here in the state call it Lay' Den' instead and can be use inner changeable wise.

Tycho
Apr 17, 2012, 10:18 PM
The fact that we start from english as our base gives us an advantage because our language is so dynamic it makes us consider all the possible formulations and understand them where as in other languages more often than not there are strict rules to how to put together a sentence.
Huh, word order in Japanese is more dynamic than in English.


Like, "baka gaijin arimasu" just means "there is a stupid foreigner" (depending on context, of course).
wat, 'aru' is for inanimate objects (as opposed to 'iru').


there are also some other changes at higher numbers like 300, instead of the normal Hyaku for the 100 place it's Byaku.
One easy way to bypass learning the pronunciations/irregularities would be to just use the Arabic numerals instead; it's by no means weird to just write '300' instead. A factor that would complicate sounding natural would be counters (e.g. 3つ for most objects, 3人 for people).


The 9 ku is part of the On reading and is used.
The point here is to qualify when it's used -- in not a lot of cases at all. Notably 'kuji' (as noted), some names and using numbers for their phonetic value (e.g. 4649 for 'yoroshiku').

On the topic of language acquisition as mentioned earlier in the thread, I'd recommend starting out with some textbook cramming for grammar/vocab, then switching to immersion to build up from there. I wouldn't recommend majoring in a language (as I did for Japanese), as semi-related subjects aside, schools would generally make you learn several texts by heart instead of letting you read/hear more different stuff (which would be more useful for learning).
For Mandarin I've been trying the same thing but haven't had found similarly good resources for grammar, so occasionally people don't understand me, haha. I need to ask for more feedback.

Omega-z
Apr 17, 2012, 10:50 PM
I want to thank Spellbinder, shiink, Tycho for there Info. in clearing up & understanding things better.:)

I wish there was a Sticky (not sure if there is one?) dedicated to Learning & Understanding Japanese ( I Know that material's would be linked but like Tycho said about having that feed back and true to the source grammar.) would help those who would love to learn or learn more especially thru the forums of so many talented people here on PSO-World, Japan, U.S. and Europe. Like a Tutor Thread to add to the Material from the link's given in the thread.

would that be a good idea?:rappy:

Brimcon
Apr 17, 2012, 10:52 PM
I want to thank Spellbinder, shiink, Tycho for there Info. in clearing up & understanding things better.:)

I wish there was a Sticky (not sure if there is one?) dedicated to Learning & Understanding Japanese ( I Know that material's would be linked but like Tycho said about having that feed back and true to the source grammar.) would help those who would love to learn or learn more especially thru the forums of so many talented people here on PSO-World, Japan, U.S. and Europe. Like a Tutor Thread to add to the Material from the link's given in the thread.

would that be a good idea?:rappy:

It sounds like a good idea to me, I'd love to learn more, I've already learned quite a few things in this thread.

Wayu
Apr 17, 2012, 11:00 PM
I'll take the word of the Japanese college student sitting in the lounge here with me who I asked to confirm before posting as well as the texts and professors I've studied under. The only time I've ever heard someone say ku is when they are telling time and they use the ku reading and say ku ji. 4 and 7 can be read both ways when counting before 10, and use the readings shi and shichi when telling time as well. It's personal preference of the speaker.

Some background as to the different ways to say four and seven.

四 can be read し (shi) or よん (yon). 七 can be read なな (nana) or しち (shichi). "Shi" can mean 死, or death, which is why most people'll avoid the readings with し in it.

Numbers also are different when applied to counters (as in, one object, two objects, etc.), dates, etc. but I don't think that'll be needed in PSO2.

-Wayu

RocSage
Apr 17, 2012, 11:01 PM
After you get done with a mission and make friends with someone japanese you should proceed to say "I will call you hachi!" followed by a petting action.

Omega-z
Apr 17, 2012, 11:01 PM
I found an old thread that had some good starting point's. We could have it look'd thru to see if it would be good as a basis and work up from there?. - and get a Mod to Sticky this Please.:)
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193004

RocSage - I like that, it remind's me of InuYasha.:):rappy:

Leliana
Jun 22, 2012, 04:10 AM
I like this. Now maybe our foreign friends will find us a little less annoying. :-)