Cash Shop impressions

[Mike]

Tried out the Arks Cash system? What do you think?

I haven't tried the closed beta yet (work) but I read that you need to use AC to delete characters. That is not good.

EDIT: It turns out that you don't need AC to delete characters but you do need to use AC to repurchase an additional characters if you have deleted them. Which is still not good.

[reptile7383]

Wait, you have to rebuy the extra character slots if you want to remake that character? That's incredibly stupid. I hope they change that for the full release

[Crystal_Shard]

Definitely something to complain about during the feedback portion. On the other hand, it sounds like character slots are a one time purchase, which is good news.

[HeartBreak301]

Well I see that my fears of SEGA using a cash system to screw over the players is coming true right on schedule... oh wait, it's before schedule since this is still the beta.

[Arika]

I died solo in a mission, and it asked "Do you want to purchase a scapedoll?" appear in pop up message lol!

so far I m fine with it, because I played PSU Jp and it is about the same if not worse.

[CelestialBlade]

As much as I keep trying to be patient about my reactions to the Cash Shop, charging you to remake a deleted character is slightly ridiculous. I don't even have much of a problem being nickled-and-dimed in game, but geez, let me at least get my char right. I remade Chelsea in PSU about 3-4 times before I got her right (relative height, voice, etc), and don't even get me started on how many times I remade my Aion chars.

Feedback is a powerful thing though, as we've seen from the Alphas. It's imperative we speak up about these things; they won't hear a bunch of people complaining on a message board. If you feel that strongly about it, speak.

[Saotome Kaneda]

I feel sorry for those of you that deleted your character for minor changes like voices when the Costume/Esthe Shop will do some changes for free(like voices)...

[Dinosaur]

Trying so hard to get the rappy costume!

It'd be easier if the servers didn't freeze every minute

[Kazzi]

I wasn't charged when I deleted and re-made my character. I found the cash shop to be confusing to navigate through and use.

[astronautcowboy]

As much as I keep trying to be patient about my reactions to the Cash Shop, charging you to remake a deleted character is slightly ridiculous. I don't even have much of a problem being nickled-and-dimed in game, but geez, let me at least get my char right. I remade Chelsea in PSU about 3-4 times before I got her right (relative height, voice, etc), and don't even get me started on how many times I remade my Aion chars.

Feedback is a powerful thing though, as we've seen from the Alphas. It's imperative we speak up about these things; they won't hear a bunch of people complaining on a message board. If you feel that strongly about it, speak.

I can't promise that I can handle all requests, but if people need their English feedback translated to Japanese, I can help when I have free time.

[DemonMike]

Where exactly is the cash shop any way? I feel like I'm completely missing something here haha

[Kazzi]

Where exactly is the cash shop any way? I feel like I'm completely missing something here haha

Press esc, it's the shopping cart 2nd from the right.

[Mike]

The gatchas are terrible. I like that they kind of show up as a scratch off card, hence the name, but it's still a money sink.

[Crystal_Shard]

I wasted all my fun points on some useless random junk. 100 FUN points for one scratch card isn't very fun. I don't really dare to use the Arks Cash for scratch cards yet.

[Fatal-Killer]

Is there a list of the Cash Shop items? it's hard to tell what they are without being able to read japanease. I'd like to know what im buying first before blowing Arc cash on it

[Mike]

Is there a list of the Cash Shop items? it's hard to tell what they are without being able to read japanease. I'd like to know what im buying first before blowing Arc cash on it
There might be one online somewhere else but that was one of the things I wanted to get up tonight.

[Xenobia]

It turns out that you don't need AC to delete characters but you do need to use AC to repurchase an additional characters if you have deleted them. Which is still not good.
I did not find a option in order to delete my characters.... it seems like the option is grayed out. I have tried everything, just unable to find/ execute.

Edit: Just found out how it works: My lack to read JP is to blame... it works by pressing CTRL and HOLDING IT. Then the button will become white and is finally able to delete the content by pushing it (holding down CTRL and push/click delete at the same time).

Ok, reality is: Creating new character costs AC, because as soon as a old character is deleted they will lose the character slot (also called "frame"), so it means a new slot have to be gotten by using ACs. Definitely nothing cheap so i highly suggest to use Character Creator and characters should be tuned using it, no matter how long it takes, CC have to be known in and out and tested as much as possible. Mistakens are less likely when using it.. saving up lot of cash.

[Arika]

Good thing is that when I use item to boost 100% exp. (which is for 30 min) I got dc and error so I couldn't log back in for 40 min. When I log back in, my status still continue boosting.

[Angelo]

Someone needs to make an AC converter app.

I'm pretty cheap; I mean I've even budgeted my cancer sticks to 5 cents a drag.

[Tsukento]

I really don't like that you need to pay to create multiple characters. Nor do I like that you have to pay for trading or even accessing "My Room," a feature that the last few promos for the game boasted heavily about.

IMO, they're going about the cash shop system completely wrong by taking standard features from previous games and making you pay for them. There's a right way to do a cash system and a wrong way. This is the wrong way.

[Angelo]

I really don't like that you need to pay to create multiple characters. Nor do I like that you have to pay for trading or even accessing "My Room," a feature that the last few promos for the game boasted heavily about.

IMO, they're going about the cash shop system completely wrong by taking standard features from previous games and making you pay for them. There's a right way to do a cash system and a wrong way. This is the wrong way.

To be fair you had to pay a monthly fee for the 'standard features'.

[Reia]

I'll be honest, I was expecting all this EXCEPT the fact that you got to buy your Mags! D=

I was hoping to farm the mags and breed them myself. But now not even I have to purchase them but also the thought of paying up to undo it to LV0 makes me wanna start free course with a full Ability/Critical rate mag for playing all classes until I see an elaborated mag guide from the Japanese before even buying one.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

honestly i have no problem with this. they were correct in that the basics of the game would be available, like leveling, playing the same stages, etc.

the point where it gets wrong is when at lvl X you stop earning skill points, or you have to buy a 3 day pass to access X quest. that's when I start getting upset.

atm though yeah, I'm close to perfectly content with how they've handled the game so far.

[Enforcer MKV]

Honestly, the way they're handling this is actually making me be a bit wary of playing it. Which is a shame because I was really looking forward to it.

There are literally only four things that really bug me, and I'm only extremely miffed with two of them.

[Alucadra]

I think my biggest gripe with the cash shop atm is that apprently on launch you'll have to purchase the My Room and Shop feature with AC and they expire monthly... to me customization is one of Phantasy Star's big selling points i'd hate to see it become cash shop exclusive and whats up with having to be premium just to trade?

[Itoshi]

I don't mind paying for the "My Room" feature, but that is mainly because it was something I never used in PSU. So if it is something extra I can throw on, sure, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get it. I'll probably be getting the premium package anyway because I like the ability to trade. I think it's dumb that you have to pay to trade though..

I find myself using a ton of AC on scapes too. The fact that it is super easy to just pop in 10 AC and res is very tempting. I've done it a lot and I gotta learn to stop.

[FOODFOOD]

So let me get this straight so far as someone from the outside looking in:

1. You get to make 1 character for free, but have to pay real money to make another character?
2. You can't trade items unless you pay money?
3. You eventually stop learning skill points unless you pay money?

I hope that changes, or all that stuff is really super cheap, or I will definitely be turned off :( Those are core gameplay parts that so many MMOs offer for free.

[DarK-SuN]

@FOODFOOD
1. Correct, not a huge issue since one character can switch between all classes for free.

2. Correct.

3. Incorrect, once you level cap (obviously) you stop earning skill points to spend on skills.
Just switch to another class and you can still level it up, rinse and repeat till you're 100% capped.
It's like in PSU, cap out your class, switch to another so not to waste MP, rinse and repeat when the cap increases to keep levelling them all up.
You do need to pay to reset your skill tree (if you bork it up) or get additional specs (extra skill trees in the same class so that you can, for example, have a DPS build in one tree and a more tank-ish build in another).

[FOODFOOD]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. That makes things a lot better. Gotcha - I didn't realize you could change classes. I'm guessing though, once you're a CAST you're always a CAST, yes? You can't go from CAST to Human?

[DarK-SuN]

Yeah, once you're a CAST you're always a cast, but you can customize (re-customize) your character in the make-up/Esthe shop ingame; several options are free (like voice re-customization), but more indepth body and face proportion options require Arc(k)s Cash.

[FOODFOOD]

What are the cash costs in proportion to?

For instance, $10 USD will net me about how much Arc Cash, and how much do things in-game usually cost?

[Rauten]

Not sure if I should ask this here or in the general questions thread, so apologies in advance if this is the wrong place:

Can't say I'm particularly interested in using an in-game cash shop, does anyone know if SEGA intends to create some sort of premium subscription option?

[maxx69]

Nevermind.

[Arika]

I think my biggest gripe with the cash shop atm is that apprently on launch you'll have to purchase the My Room and Shop feature with AC and they expire monthly... to me customization is one of Phantasy Star's big selling points i'd hate to see it become cash shop exclusive and whats up with having to be premium just to trade?

as long as the shop rental free per 30 days is cheaper than normal subscription for 30 days, then it should be fine. Actually they expect it to be 500 yen, which is only half price of normal sub.

[Tsukento]

@FOODFOOD
1. Correct, not a huge issue since one character can switch between all classes for free.
Actually, that IS a huge issue for those of us that like to have multiple characters of different races and genders with set classes in mind.

[DarK-SuN]

Actually, that IS a huge issue for those of us that like to have multiple characters of different races and genders with set classes in mind.
I'm one such person, but I still don't see a big issue because it's bound to be pretty cheap.

[RocSage]

I think most of the stuff is decent enough...

i hate lottery stuff. just let me buy the thing and I'll be less ticked off and less likely to quit using the shop.

For most people, the biggest factor of how much they spend will be how much storage you want. I think the Premium stuff is beneficial enough to maintain a monthly or whatever sub so it really becomes do you want more space or don't you.

Everything else is more or less one time use. Because of this you can build it up over time and you can pretty much go "i'll get it when i can afford it or need it"

The thing i don't like is the idea that you have to pay to switch servers because there is no point to have it and because PSO/U's servers have always had a flux about them where sometimes you can get in and other times you can't and other times the place is completely empty. I'd prefer that we'd be able to spread out however we want as it would help with that as well as it wouldn't segregate the population as it will. If you are on ship 2 you are on ship 2 and the only way to get off ship to is to pay for it... of course if you do that then you lose your friends on ship 2 or they all have to pay to switch or you have to switch twice. I don't like that.

[Corby]

Actually, that IS a huge issue for those of us that like to have multiple characters of different races and genders with set classes in mind.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the game is F2P so you aren't paying for additional characters but rather for the convenience of having them on the same account.

[Xaton]

they should let the myroom shop and basic premium storage be a single one time purchase thats permenant then any expantion to that like extra room or somthing added on or somthing be the 30day thing. same with charactor slots let the first 3 be permenant buy and any beyond that be the delete frame function. like let there be a basic room like litterly small dorm room size room for free so people that want to try it can still have basic myroom stuff tradeing be liek 1 to 5 stars for these people and shop is limited to 1 or 2 slots. when the premium gives 1 to 8 star tradeing abilty with out being charged arcs or meseta. and the one time premium room is the basic myroom at moment and shot pspace is increase dliek 2 or 3 slots. then use anythign extra beyond that be the rent paying.

[RedRaz0r]

Ohohoho, what do I think of the cash shop?

I'll tell you: It's horrific.

I am a great fan of pay to play, and that's for 2 reasons:
1. Keeps all the spammers, gold sellers, and childish trolls to a minimum.
2. Keeps everyone on a level playing field, for the most part.

This cash shop thing, from the looks of it, is terrible. You can make more money, level up faster, and have access to more content, for money. It keeps the people who are willing to pay (which will be me, mind you) ahead of everyone else. It's terrible.

[RocSage]

Ohohoho, what do I think of the cash shop?

I'll tell you: It's horrific.

I am a great fan of pay to play, and that's for 2 reasons:
1. Keeps all the spammers, gold sellers, and childish trolls to a minimum.
2. Keeps everyone on a level playing field, for the most part.

This cash shop thing, from the looks of it, is terrible. You can make more money, level up faster, and have access to more content, for money. It keeps the people who are willing to pay (which will be me, mind you) ahead of everyone else. It's terrible.

Not really
Storage slots lets you be a pack rat
Inventory slots let you not worry about item management as much
My Room is a nice hang out place
Shop allows you to sell items at higher prices
trade makes buying/selling between individuals easier
Exp boosters allows you to level faster
skill boards lets you have different builds for your character.
Scape dolls let you revive on the spot

The only two items that could be seen as really giving you an advantage are the exp booster and the scape doll thing, but those are both minimized.

Exp boosters only let you gain xp quicker, but that is currently modified by various other factors such as the ability to play much more than someone else, like me. I can play 24/7 and thus i can out level just about anyone so it's not a pay for power thing.

Scape dolls could be a problem, but because there are timed missions and times when it doesn't offer a scape doll it seems that scape dolls aren't really all that usefull to "get ahead"

I suppose you could say storage could be used as a sort of leverage because if i have more storage i can hold more things and thus am more likely not to rush to get rid of something if i don't need it, but that also depends on the person.

[thinktank001]

This cash shop thing, from the looks of it, is terrible. You can make more money, level up faster, and have access to more content, for money. It keeps the people who are willing to pay (which will be me, mind you) ahead of everyone else. It's terrible.

This is pretty much normal for every P2W game.

[Sejrick]

Is it just me or would you rather pay ten or fifteen dollars a month instead of having to buy all these tickets each month some of which actually make the game playable. Like the first ticket which lets you trade, have a shop, and your own room, and the storage tickets. Most of this I would always just rather get for a monthly payment but this just might be me.

[PKS]

Wait, so the stuff we buy and pay for won't be permanent?

[GrandTickler]

Is it just me or would you rather pay ten or fifteen dollars a month instead of having to buy all these tickets each month some of which actually make the game playable. Like the first ticket which lets you trade, have a shop, and your own room, and the storage tickets. Most of this I would always just rather get for a monthly payment but this just might be me.

depends, how much is 10AC? 1 dollar? then no, cause i think your cheaper out but idk the price.

[Mike]

have access to more content, for money.
I haven't seen any content in the cash shop yet.

[Mike]

depends, how much is 10AC? 1 dollar? then no, cause i think your cheaper out but idk the price.
10 AC is just a temporary price for the closed beta.


Wait, so the stuff we buy and pay for won't be permanent?
Some are permanent and some are not. Skill trees, inventory expansions, and extra characters (kinda) are permanent.

[GrandTickler]

10 AC is just a temporary price for the closed beta.



i see. well in that case its a rip off if they ask for much more. and your cheaper out buying a monthly fee.

thats what i hate about f2p games, they arent f2p, they cost 10 times more then a p2p game to get rid of all the shitty limitations.
and thats also why i only play like 1 f2p game every few years or so

[Ekoi]

If you're storing more than 200 items in your vault then you should prolly reconsider selling some garbage.

Next Beta will likely feature the first run of standard prices, and also an announcement on the conversion for Yen to AC to go with it. It's too early to judge prices on it.

Hopefully we get the ability to buy more than one color of standard outfits.

[blace]

I was expecting something like this when they announced PSO2 being free to play.

Most aspects of free to play have limited storage, time permissions (in this case the rooms), items in cash shop that may or may not be overpowered to all hell and other varieties that make a pay to play game seem more enjoyable.

I've played a variety of games both in free and paid content, and so far from peoples reactions it's starting to look like the korean made F2P MMO's.

[Raikuro]

Nah, I like the idea that if I don't/can't pay for a few months I can still play my character. The charge on trading is probably there so free players don't have as easy access to paid items.

[Dragwind]

I don't really have an opinion myself on this until there are some actual prices in place. It could either be really cheap, or really expensive compared to a regular subscription cost. I think it's really too early to tell since at this point, the system itself is just being tested.

[Arika]

Like any other game. they usually do it 1 yen = 1 AC,

but the price won't be 10 AC, because 10 yen worth nothing in JP now.
I think pSU shougai expected the premium ticket that include room rental, trade, and shop to be 500 yen. That is about 40% price of PSU premium subscription which would be pretty cool price in my opinion.

PSU-jp has 1300 yen subscription that work the same, to let you go to your room, to let you trade. and It has even worse way of managing gacha shop. Altho they have easy obtainable scapedoll, and no skill tree limit.

To compare, PSO2 is on fair deal to have lower price in premium ticket, but add more support stuff that doesn't need to have into AC.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

Hm... So far, inventory space seems to be about as spacious as PSO or PSU. Not a much more expansive, but nothing notably restricting. I may or may not end up needing extra storage depending on how many items I need to stockpile in the actual game.

If it doesn't cost too much, I could easily see myself getting two extra characters and an extra Hunter skill tree for Maz.

I'm just waiting on how cash shop outfits will function... and the available options.

[C-Shan]

Nah, I like the idea that if I don't/can't pay for a few months I can still play my character. The charge on trading is probably there so free players don't have as easy access to paid items.

There's a much easier way to limit Cash items from free players.

Bind Cash items to the account they were bought on.


Just because you're free shouldn't mean you now have LESS security when it comes to player-to-player trading.
Or is the argument really going to be "If you don't want to pay, you can always drop trade"?


*edit
Overall, the trading thing is the only thing that's really pushing me the wrong way. (apparently mags too, but I'm not even sure those ARE in the cash shop)
I can stand EXP boosters. I can stand Buying extra slots (not slots disappearing on deletion though). I can even understand buying scape dolls.

But you do not push the phantasy star brand BACKWARDS by limiting an actual TRADE mechanic to if you've paid or not.

[Zyrusticae]

I honestly don't give a toss.

I've barely used any of my storage space, I haven't bothered putting anything up for sale on the AH/broker, I haven't even visited my room yet, and I can count the number of times that a Scape Doll would actually have been useful on one hand.

I can easily see myself not spending a dime on this game, simply because I can attain anything I want or need by my own power and effort, and there is nothing stopping me from doing so aside from my own patience and/or willpower. Something some folks in this thread could, I think, use a bit more of...

[Rauten]

But you do not push the phantasy star brand BACKWARDS by limiting an actual TRADE mechanic to if you've paid or not.

Actually that's probably a good idea, since it'll bother a lot of RMT's; Wanna sell your meseta for real money? buckle up, my friend.
It won't stop RMT-ing, but it should make it less of an issue.

P.S. Keep in mind that even if you can't "trade", you can still join a PassWorded game and drop the items/meseta on the floor, or even use a middle man, so it's not like you're completely blocked from exchanging items with other players. Which unfortunately also means RMTs aren't completely blocked either.

[Polantaris]

This is pretty much normal for every P2W game.

Except this is in no way Pay 2 Win.

Pay 2 Win means that by paying, you get a significant advantage that no one else can get without paying. Boosters to rates are not that. Everyone can get to Max level, with or without paying. The only difference is how long it will take you. Paying makes it shorter.

Pay 2 Win, I have a perfect example of what's really Pay 2 Win. MapleStory. They have this new(ish) system in the game called Potential. All equipment can have Potential. When you get an item with Potential, you identify it, and when you do, it gets stats added on to the equipment in question. This can be anywhere from +3 to a stat, to +12% to a stat. What makes this P2W? Potential has "tiers" of usefulness. The only way to get to the highest tier (And therefore be able to get stuff like +12% stat), you need to pay for Cubes. Cubes reset the potential on an item, and give a chance that the potential tier will increase. Special, more expensive cubes are the only way to get the highest level of potential. The only possible way to get gear with the really good buffs, is to pay for it. Period. You will never get +12% stat without paying. Ever. That's Pay 2 Win. It gives players that pay a significant advantage that's impossible to get without paying.

In PSO2, the current closest thing to P2W is probably My Shop/Trading. Without either, you're completely reliant on what money you get from kills/NPCed items to buy gear that you're not getting as drops (Trust me, it happens to everyone, and eventually you get fed up and just want to buy the damn thing). But you still have no situation as of yet where you will have a long-term permanent disadvantage to people who pay.

Worried about Scape Dolls? Play smart and don't die. I went through the entire Beta(so far) as a Newman Force (So my HP was probably as low as it will get) and had only one situation where I died, and that's because I was playing stupid. Scape Dolls are not a necessity at this point.

Everything else is extras, that are not necessary, are not content, and some are vanity.

Oh and a little side note: The Boosters are for 30 minutes. That's basically one mission. To get maxed out on Boosters means you'll be spending a LOT of money if you want to max out just on Boosters. If people are spending that much money, then instead of complaining thank then for keeping the game alive, and giving Sega money to keep the game live.

As for the Character Slot thing, where you lose the Free slot if you delete it: It's highly likely that is an oversight or a bug. I doubt very much that's how it was intended, and if they haven't fixed it already (haven't been paying attention to bug fixes honestly), then I very much doubt it will be that way in OBT. If it was how it was intended, I doubt the outcries of the players against this will keep it that way.

One last thing: You realize that if you played PSU as a Free Player, the main restrictions there are the same things that are classified as Premium here. It's likely it will be the same exact price.

[Jonth]

Except this is in no way Pay 2 Win.

Pay 2 Win means that by paying, you get a significant advantage that no one else can get without paying. Boosters to rates are not that. Everyone can get to Max level, with or without paying. The only difference is how long it will take you. Paying makes it shorter.

Pay 2 Win, I have a perfect example of what's really Pay 2 Win. MapleStory. They have this new(ish) system in the game called Potential. All equipment can have Potential. When you get an item with Potential, you identify it, and when you do, it gets stats added on to the equipment in question. This can be anywhere from +3 to a stat, to +12% to a stat. What makes this P2W? Potential has "tiers" of usefulness. The only way to get to the highest tier (And therefore be able to get stuff like +12% stat), you need to pay for Cubes. Cubes reset the potential on an item, and give a chance that the potential tier will increase. Special, more expensive cubes are the only way to get the highest level of potential. The only possible way to get gear with the really good buffs, is to pay for it. Period. You will never get +12% stat without paying. Ever. That's Pay 2 Win. It gives players that pay a significant advantage that's impossible to get without paying.


^THIS. I have played Maple Story off and on for a long time, simply because I liked the novelty of the side-scrolling monster bashing. It keeps me pretty entertained for a few weeks at a time, but overall the cash shop is just set up terribly. Luckily, since I don't care about taking that game too seriously I don't care if everybody else "wins" and I "lose".

PSO2 however... Well this is going to be THE GAME for me and my friends. If they decide to implement the cash shop the wrong way, then I will be severely and unequivocally... upset. I'm not worried too much right now though, as I haven't seen anything that is completely and utterly game breaking relating to the cash shop.

[Zyrusticae]

Yup, what ^ ^ said.

I'm getting tired of people labeling anything with some sort of booster as P2W. It muddles the definition of the phrase and, frankly, just sounds like a bunch of bloody whining to my ears. So someone with lots of money AND lots of time will have an advantage over someone who has lots of time but no money, so what? Most players who have lots of money also don't have a lot of time, so the booster options help them to keep up with other players who DO have a lot of time. What's wrong with that?

I don't see anything unfair about time-rich but money-poor players being on an even playing field with time-poor but money-rich players. As some of you will inevitably learn as you grow up, time = money. So the fact that the two are interchangeable in F2P games should not surprise you at all. Capitalism in action, folks!

True P2W is an actual, impossible-to-attain otherwise advantage bought only by money. Burn that definition into your brains, folks, so I don't have to keep repeating myself. Please!

[C-Shan]

Actually that's probably a good idea, since it'll bother a lot of RMT's; Wanna sell your meseta for real money? buckle up, my friend.
It won't stop RMT-ing, but it should make it less of an issue.

P.S. Keep in mind that even if you can't "trade", you can still join a PassWorded game and drop the items/meseta on the floor, or even use a middle man, so it's not like you're completely blocked from exchanging items with other players. Which unfortunately also means RMTs aren't completely blocked either.

Trade systems are made specifically so that one doesn't need to rely on a third party or the trustworthiness of their trade partner.
Either both parties toss in the correct items, or no one loses their items. (This is ignoring hacked items in both cases)

With both drop trading AND third party trading you have to take a gamble.
Is that Red box really a SPECIAL WEAPON, or is it a Photon drop?
What about that guy who's holding both our items? I didn't invite him, you did. How am I supposed to trust him moreso than you?

Cutting out the built in trade system just to handle gold sellers is like gutting your cat just to make sure it doesn't poop on the bed while you're gone.
And unless your game intends to go the EVE Online route, where practically everything is player handled, trying to expect players to "get along" with flimsy trading is about as smart as shooting yourself in the foot because it itched.

[Rauten]

With both drop trading AND third party trading you have to take a gamble.
Is that Red box really a SPECIAL WEAPON, or is it a Photon drop?
What about that guy who's holding both our items? I didn't invite him, you did. How am I supposed to trust him moreso than you?


Actually, I indicated the middle man system because it's already working pretty well for the "community" that has appeared around the Steam Trading system; I too was skeptical about it, but it seems to work wonderfully well, mostly because as people trade and are used as middleman they gain a certain reputation; like buying on eBay, but doing so from a seller with 3k votes with only 10 of those negative.

Item drop trading would only be for those you trust, of course.

[Tsacar]

I told ya' the cash shop was going to be bad. Rent a room. Pay to feed your mags. Pay to trade with other players. It's going to get worse, too. Sega is clearly going full chinese-mmo with their content-payment model. If you'll bite the bullet and pay for it, Sega is going to make you pay for it.

If it wasn't for the fact that Diablo 3 hardcore characters were barred from using the real money auction house, I'd probably cut online RPG's out of my life entirely. I don't like where this industry is going.

[kyuuketsuki]

I told ya' the cash shop was going to be bad. Rent a room. Pay to feed your mags. Pay to trade with other players. It's going to get worse, too. Sega is clearly going full chinese-mmo with their content-payment model. If you'll bite the bullet and pay for it, Sega is going to make you pay for it.
Considering we have no pricing info, that's a bit a of leap. But that's fine, who am I to stop people from freaking out.

Where the hell are you getting the idea that you have to pay to feed your mag, though?

[Tsacar]

You've got 700 posts. You have to be way more active here than I am. How could you not know the grisly details, yourself?

Giving you a 2000 word report with references isn't a viable use of my increasingly infrequent free time, so I'm going to dump a blog on you. I'm kind of assuming you already read it.

http://pso2blog.wordpress.com

Since you've got me on the ropes, I'll admit that, technically, shoving a sword into the little guy doesn't appear to cost money. Everything else related to the raising of mags does. You want another mag? Segabucks. Reset the stats of a mag you have? Segabucks. Special units? (And don't think for a moment these won't have in game advantages over standard mag types.) Segabucks. The only people who won't be shelling out real money to raise their mag (singular, not plural) are the individuals who will be playing a single character with a single role (atp dps, for example) with a standard mag. Do you guys remember how many mags we ended up having to use with all of our different characters to play them effectively in ult? Sega's got our balls in a salad shooter.

There's no "freaking out" about it. The info is out and they're charging almost exclusively for features we took for granted in prior games. I'd rather just be paying a monthly fee for a standard set of features that mirror the content availability in prior titles. (Maybe that's what the premium pack will do. That'd shut me up!)

The latest panic I'm hearing about is the whole idea that you have to pay for the ability to trade with other players. I'm assuming this is just a combination of player rooms having rent (so no player shop without paying said rent) combined with the death of the "drop an item" feature.

[Chik'Tikka]

don't want to pay to trade with other players, i understand shops and storage limitations, i understand extra characters and and mags, i understand consumables and outfits, i understand the room (and AC content that will exist for it) and i except these things with glee (havn't not played PSU in a year has me, well you know), but i can't wrap my head around pay to trade...
i hope we can at least trade with other players properly+^_^+

[Dinosaur]

You've got 700 posts. You have to be way more active here than I am. How could you not know the grisly details, yourself?

Giving you a 2000 word report with references isn't a viable use of my increasingly infrequent free time, so I'm going to dump a blog on you. I'm kind of assuming you already read it.

This personal attack is losing you lots of credibility. Not good, bro.


Since you've got me on the ropes, I'll admit that, technically, shoving a sword into the little guy doesn't appear to cost money. Everything else related to the raising of mags does. You want another mag? Segabucks. Reset the stats of a mag you have? Segabucks. Special units? (And don't think for a moment these won't have in game advantages over standard mag types.) Segabucks. The only people who won't be shelling out real money to raise their mag (singular, not plural) are the individuals who will be playing a single character with a single role (atp dps, for example) with a standard mag. Do you guys remember how many mags we ended up having to use with all of our different characters to play them effectively in ult? Sega's got our balls in a salad shooter.

There's no "freaking out" about it. The info is out and they're charging almost exclusively for features we took for granted in prior games. I'd rather just be paying a monthly fee for a standard set of features that mirror the content availability in prior titles. (Maybe that's what the premium pack will do. That'd shut me up!)

The latest panic I'm hearing about is the whole idea that you have to pay for the ability to trade with other players. I'm assuming this is just a combination of player rooms having rent (so no player shop without paying said rent) combined with the death of the "drop an item" feature.

You have to understand that the core of the game is free-to-play. Compared to the other games in the series, you had technically already paid for these features when you bought the game(on top of a monthly fee). With PSO2, you simply pay for the features you want. It sounds perfectly fine to me from a consumer standpoint as well as from a business standpoint.

[BahnKnakyu]

I've played a variety of games both in free and paid content, and so far from peoples reactions it's starting to look like the korean made F2P MMO's.

This. I don't want Sakai thinking that this is the way to go.

Pay money for cosmetic stuff, fine. But that's pretty much the only place where I draw the line.

I'd gladly pay for a monthly sub if it gets me back all the options I had in PSU.

[Quatre52]

This personal attack is losing you lots of credibility. Not good, bro.



You have to understand that the core of the game is free-to-play. Compared to the other games in the series, you had technically already paid for these features when you bought the game(on top of a monthly fee). With PSO2, you simply pay for the features you want. It sounds perfectly fine to me from a consumer standpoint as well as from a business standpoint.

This!
Especially when we consider that we still have no clue what the actual price will be for all of this.

[NoiseHERO]

Yeeaaahhhhh...

I don't care if the cash shop is selling 500% exp and drop rate items. (The level cap is only gonna start at 40, so anyone playing now will just keep reaching new level caps anyway.)

I just want more ways to get My Room for free. D:

[Rauten]

I just want more ways to get My Room for free. D:

Considering the Room, Shop and trading features seem to be the big boys of the Cash Shop, I wouldn't count on a single way to get it free.

[Dinosaur]

I just want more ways to get My Room for free. D:

1. Get lots of meseta.
2. Hope someone is selling the ticket in shops.

[NoiseHERO]

Considering the Room, Shop and trading features seem to be the big boys of the Cash Shop, I wouldn't count on a single way to get it free.

Actually you can get 3 day room tickets from fun scratch.

but yeah, the room is mostly cosmetic perfect for the cash shop because it's not game breaking blah blah blah-NO Sell agito repcas,spread needles, heavens punishers and seal J swords don't make me pay rent...! ;o;

[keizeh]

Anti F2P are retarded.
There is literally NO difference between paying $10 a month to actually play the game with all content and being able to play the game but having to pay $10 for all content.
Oh wait, there is! And F2P is the better system, and here's why: You get to choose the content you pay for. So that reduces the $10 price tag on content I'll actually be using.
People complaining about having to pay for rooms are sickening. What are you even going to use the rooms for? Just private chatting? That's what IMs and PMs are for. So problem solved. "I want the rooms because I like it" So? I don't use rooms at all. So I should be forced to pay for content I'm not even going to use just so you have the ILLUSION that you didn't pay for it? ( BTW you did when you pay monthly to access the game in whole in the first place )

F2P is the best system, end of line. The best systems often have the highest potential for abuse (P2W) but if they go that route, simply don't support the game for their money. That route works for P2P games, as they mostly have the startling tendency to go F2P eventually. I wonder why that is...

[Tsacar]

As an infrequent poster on this site, my credibility here is of less value to me than yours is to you. This is not an insult towards the community. It is a simple truth. I don't have much to say about this franchise anymore, and most if is negative, so I choose not to say much at all.

The core of my discontent came when I realized about midway into PSU that Sega had never really understood what made PSO so compelling. When they developed it, they were scrambling into new territory. No one had made a game quite like it on any platform. The fact that they were carving out a frontier was what made their design choices so exemplary. They had no idea what they were doing, and this was what allowed them to make something bold and new.

This realization suggested that the success of PSO could not be repeated even if the original development team was completely reassembled. PSO was crude in all the right ways. PSU was refined in all the wrong ones.

I think, having said this, I've said everything of value that I possibly could around here. I'll bid you folks a good a time as you can allow yourselves to have in PSO2. Have fun buying mags. Nothing dramatic about the goodbye of a guy with less than twenty posts, so let's end with LATER DEWDS!111

[buri-chan]

It isn't fair. It just isn't fair, Sega. This is extortion, plain and simple. Such a low-handed, blatant misuse of fairness of you to do this to me; You KNOW I'll buy anything if Poplar thanks me for the purchase. I opened up the shop just to hear her voice sometimes.

[Rath-Kun]

I love what Sega is doing with this. Instead of spending an extra 50-60 dollars to play with all of my friends they can join whenever the hell they want. I'll be buying cash shop items to support PSO2 and hopefully keep it up as long as possible.

Kinda wish I could buy specific items with my money but this is their way of getting more money from me, and it'll work.

[Eggobandit]

Anti F2P are retarded.
There is literally NO difference between paying $10 a month to actually play the game with all content and being able to play the game but having to pay $10 for all content.


except for grinders, mag cells, weapons, missions, clothing and everything else that would have came with the monthly subscription on PSOBB/PSU costing extra money.



It wont seem like much in the beginning, but soon, im sure we'll have a whole inventory worth of crap that you'll have to pay cash for that would have otherwise been a fun and lucky drop on a map somewhere in PSU or PSOBB.

[kyuuketsuki]

Anti F2P are retarded.
There is literally NO difference between paying $10 a month to actually play the game with all content and being able to play the game but having to pay $10 for all content.
Except if, y'know, it costs more than $10/mo to get access to the content you want. Just the gacha alone is a huge money sink.

[Ryo]

I don't see the problem with the cash shop, especially before final prices are actually announced. I'm still reserving judgment until I see the final product, but with the way it was in closed beta, it didn't seem damaging or game-breaking to me at all.

This game is seriously one of the most fun I've ever played, I'll gladly put money into it.

[Polly]

At least it's nothing as terrible as outright limiting how long you can play the game, forcing you into some horrible 30-60 minute daily demo like Spiral Knights or something.

If the prices are reasonable (and I'm doubting the prices will match my idea of "reasonable," but I can also see a universal "reasonable") I can see having it around and not impacting anyone all that much who doesn't want to use it, and hopefully not outright ripping off the people that do.

About the only thing I find absurd about the system is scratch tickets, but nothing in there seemed terribly vital to having a good time with the game.

[~Inu~]

I'm not sure if I like the option to purchase a Scape Doll upon death, selling them in the shop seems alright but I was hoping for the option to craft them or something similar... There really should be a limit to how many you can use in a mission, but that's just me.

Translates to : GAME OVER, INSERT QUARTER for me.

[Gardios]

I don't think a limit on scape dolls is needed. If you die that often, your teammates are not using moon atomizers and you're willing to pay... then SEGA probably deserves that money.

Personally, the only thing that upsets me is that you can't trade without paying. A basic function like this really shouldn't cost extra...

[Vashyron]

Personally, the only thing that upsets me is that you can't trade without paying. A basic function like this really shouldn't cost extra...

You can buy from player shops without premium though. This also goes for all item form AC items which a lot of people seem to overlook. Sure they will probably cost a sum of Meseta, but at least the option will be there.

[Zyrusticae]

You can buy from player shops without premium though.
THANK YOU.

I bought a premium ticket almost right away, so I never did test whether or not this was possible. It's been eating away at me for awhile now, so now that I know my only real gripe about the system isn't actually an issue, I am a very happy camper. ^^

[Gardios]

True, didn't think of that - it still feels wrong to be forced to pay (whether it be through meseta or AC) to be able to trade the "you'll give me an item and I'll give you one" way.

[keizeh]

except for grinders, mag cells, weapons, missions, clothing and everything else that would have came with the monthly subscription on PSOBB/PSU costing extra money.



It wont seem like much in the beginning, but soon, im sure we'll have a whole inventory worth of crap that you'll have to pay cash for that would have otherwise been a fun and lucky drop on a map somewhere in PSU or PSOBB.


Except if, y'know, it costs more than $10/mo to get access to the content you want. Just the gacha alone is a huge money sink.

Sounds like a personal problem.
Thanks for saying I should have to pay extra money for features I will never use just so you can have small trivial things that don't really have a large impact on gameplay in the first place.
If you don't want to spend more money than a monthly fee, don't. Chances are HIGHLY likely that there won't be anything 'big' $15 won't get you, unless you're a moron who thinks they have to buy literally everything from the rooms to the grinders to have a full experience.
You're seriously trying to tell me you bought costumes in the previous games that you didn't like just so you could have them all? This isn't Pokemon, you don't have to buy them all. Just buy only the ones you really like. If that's all of them and you don't have enough money, you really need to stop being so entitled.

[moorebounce]

I didn't mind the cash shop. I just hope the prices are reasonable.

[kyuuketsuki]

Sounds like a personal problem.
Thanks for being rude for... no reason. Always appreciated.
Thanks for saying I should have to pay extra money for features I will never use just so you can have small trivial things that don't really have a large impact on gameplay in the first place.
Nobody said that. I prefer the old "buy the game, then a flat monthly fee" to the nickel-and-dime F2P model, sure. But that has nothing to do with you, personally.
If you don't want to spend more money than a monthly fee, don't.
Thanks for that amazing bit of wisdom. Really, I never thought of that.

Chances are HIGHLY likely that there won't be anything 'big' $15 won't get you, unless you're a moron who thinks they have to buy literally everything from the rooms to the grinders to have a full experience.
Oh I see. So anyone who wants to spend money on features like My Room is a moron. Good thing these morons will be the ones subsidizing your free/cheap gameplay.

And wtf are you talking about buying grinders?
You're seriously trying to tell me you bought costumes in the previous games that you didn't like just so you could have them all?
No one said anything of the sort. Although if a person does like to collect stuff, what business of it of yours to judge them for it?
Just buy only the ones you really like.
Should probably pay attention. You don't buy outfits. You gamble for them through the gacha and you get what you get. Even if that wasn't the case, if they release new content regularly and there are outfits and other options that come up that a person would like to have, and the total for those comes out to over $10/mo, then they're still paying extra so freeloaders can get your free gameplay. Instead of everyone chipping in a set amount and getting access to everything.
If that's all of them and you don't have enough money, you really need to stop being so entitled.
It's not about having or not having enough money, nor does entitlement figure into this at all. But again, thanks for being rude for no reason.

[Hax3120]

They should have had secondary colors for costumes...at least in creator mode only and MAYBE for the Esthe Store.

I don't wanna waste AC points trying to get different colored outfits.

But other than that, the cash shop was alright.


I didn't mind the cash shop. I just hope the prices are reasonable.

Agreed.

[BIG OLAF]

I'm wondering when they're going to actually tell us the exchange rate for Arks Cash, or if they're just going to surprise us when they launch the purchase webpage.

[Tsacar]

As an infrequent poster on this site, my credibility here is of less value to me than yours is to you. This is not an insult towards the community. It is a simple truth. I don't have much to say about this franchise anymore, and most if is negative, so I choose not to say much at all.

The core of my discontent came when I realized about midway into PSU that Sega had never really understood what made PSO so compelling. When they developed it, they were scrambling into new territory. No one had made a game quite like it on any platform. The fact that they were carving out a frontier was what made their design choices so exemplary. They had no idea what they were doing, and this was what allowed them to make something bold and new.

This realization suggested that the success of PSO could not be repeated even if the original development team was completely reassembled. PSO was crude in all the right ways. PSU was refined in all the wrong ones.

I think, having said this, I've said everything of value that I possibly could around here. I'll bid you folks a good a time as you can allow yourselves to have in PSO2. Have fun buying mags. Nothing dramatic about the goodbye of a guy with less than twenty posts, so let's end with LATER DEWDS!111

I owe you guys an apology. I was not merely wrong about PSO2, I was so wrong. SEGA has made many strides forward forward in PSO2. This is one of those strange times when it feels good to eat my own words. A cash shop existing parallel to a game; without content walls requiring repeat cash shop usage to progress, dispels every dismal prediction I made. Yowza!

[Mystil]

That said, I'm sure that's why the japanese stays the hell away from PWI or any game that run by PWE.