The Force Thread

[Jonth]

There just isn't enough Force information going around to appease me. Therefore, I am making this thread to help compile all that is currently known about Forces. I want to pay special attention to Techniques, since that seems to be the hardest thing for me to find information on. Also, techniques are one of my favorite things about Phantasy Star.

Anyway, I'll list what I know from my research. I have not been in any alpha or beta tests, so all my information is 2nd party at best. As people from the beta (or who have done better research) contribute more information, I'll update it. For now, this thread will just consist of text, but I hope to add photos as they become available.



TECHNIQUES

Arika has provided a very informative video showcasing all the Techniques. It is a must see for anyone who isn't in the Beta and cares anything about the way of the Force.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYrXEKYalAE&feature=player_detailpage

Vent has done an awesome job with posting technique pictures and descriptions over on his blog. He has been so kind as to allow me to pull his images and post them here, so that is where most of the images here are from. I highly suggest visiting Phantasy Star Online Closed Beta: TECHNIQUES Showcase for more thorough information on techs.

MAGICAL LINK COME FORTH!


FIRE

All these techs have a chance to burn (what does burn do? assuming DoT) their target.

Foie: Shoots out a ball of fire in a linear path. Can deal damage to multiple targets if they are very close. Also has the ability to hurt enemies that it skims, but doesn't detonate on.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_113951_044.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]
Rafoie: Causes an explosion centering at an auto-targeted enemy or at a set distance. Deals damage to multiple targets.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_103338_004.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]
Gifoie: Creates two fireballs that circle the casting point, damaging nearby enemies up to 3 times. This tech has an extended battle animation.
[SPOILER-BOX]Cast from a card:
http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-07.jpg
Cast around user:
http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_103434_008.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]
Shifta: Creates an aura that enhances all attack stats of yourself and nearby allies.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_104801_036.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]

LIGHTNING

All these techs have a chance of shocking (prevents enemies from attacking) their target.

Zonde: Causes a bolt of lightning to fall upon a target. Can hit multiple targets.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-01.jpg
http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-02.jpg
http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_103236_002.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]
Razonde: Causes lightning to strike around the casting point in a conical shape, dealing damage to surrounding targets. The area of effect of this tech is increased the further away from the ground it is cast. However, casting it too high can cause the tech to not land.
[SPOILER-BOX]Cast from a card:
http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-06.jpg
http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_104004_025.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]
Gizonde: Shoots out a linear bolt of electricity to a target. Upon hitting the target it will jump to other nearby targets causing a chain effect.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_104900_039.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]
Sazonde: Shoots out a ball of electricity that puts a target into a "charged" state. This causes the first lightning based tech (that does damage) that is used on the affected target to trigger a short DoT. Multiple Sazondes can be stacked upon a target to produce multiple DoTs. Affects only a single target.
[SPOILER-BOX] Charge status in effect (Is this the DoT, or just the initial Sazonde charge?):
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/yukiyukisuki/pso20120422_102459_003.png
http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_104211_026.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]
ICE

All of these techs have a chance to freeze (prevents target from attacking or moving, but constant attacking can prematurely free the target) their target.

Barta: Shoots a burst of ice that, when coming in contact with the ground, will travel forward along the surface. Has a piercing effect , and is thus able to hit multiple targets.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_103452_009.png?w=640&h=353
When cast into the air, it quickly falls to the ground:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/yukiyukisuki/pso20120422_102302_002.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
Rabarta: Causes a storm of ice centering around the casting point that damages surrounding targets. Has an extended attack animation and will damage enemies up to 4 times during it.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_103504_010.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]
Gibarta: Sprays a wide arc of icicles a short distance hitting multiple targets. Can hit up to 4 times.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_103853_023.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]
Deband: Creates an aura that enhances all defense stats of yourself and nearby allies.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_104810_037.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]

LIGHT

Grants: Causes a barrage of arrows of light to rain down upon a single target. Can hit multiple targets only if they are very close.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq60/VentAileron/pso20120422_234818_007.png
http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_103618_015.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]
Gigrants: Causes a beam (or 4 beams if charged) of light to circle the casting point, damaging targets.
[SPOILER-BOX]
Non-charged cast: http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq60/VentAileron/pso20120422_234307_002.png
When charged:
http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq60/VentAileron/pso20120422_234329_006.png
http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_104256_027.png?w=640&h=353
[/SPOILER-BOX]
Resta: Creates an aura of healing around the user. This technique can heal both the user and surrounding allies. The charged version of this technique lingers for a short time healing up to 4 times.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_104726_033.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]
Anti: Cures yourself and nearby allies of abnormal status conditions.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://polychromium.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pso20120423_104753_035.png?w=640&h=353[/SPOILER-BOX]



WEAPONS

Omega-z has done some incredible research about the three weapons currently available for Forces. Everyone should view this information as it sheds some light on some very interesting aspects of the damage mechanics of these weapons. Weapons that use two stats for their damage modifiers? Hybrid classes... Your time has finally come!
[SPOILER-BOX]I'm done Testing the Normal attack for Gunslash, Rod's and Card's. I hope I keep it all straight lol. was done with Lv.1 foe's for accuracy.

O.k. first of all it's a 10 to 1 ratio and the reason why you add +30 to something it doesn't real add much to your ATK. Now every stat except HP & PP goes by this 10/1 rate with Ability with the only bonuses if meet it's requirement. All added points have to be 10 to make it a Damage point so 9 won't make it needs to be a full +10.

Gunslash - Melee/Blade attack - It's the full added power of the S-ATK and the Base R-ATK + any extra % for grinding, % with element or MAG stats. It has a Variance of 12 Damage.

Gunslash - Ranged/Gun attack - It's only the Full R-ATK, but this is the kicker it can have the Ability stat added this also counts your MAG too. But here's the catch you have to have the Ability stat higher then your foe to actually to have it added. Now when it's added in you have bonuses of having your Critical Attack Rate increased and the possibility of having the damage you take form a foe reduced to 1 + any extra % for grinding, % with element or MAG stats. It has a Variance of 0~2* Damage. (*doesn't happen to often )

Talis - Ranged/Card throw attack - It's the Base R-ATK and Half of your total T-ATK + Grinding which will go off the Base R-ATK and the full T-ATK of the weapon then % with element or MAG stats you have also Photon Flare also works with this. Variance of 2 Damage.

Talis - Technic/Base attack - It's the total T-ATK + the Ability also MAG. ( bonuses after the requirement is met ) Then any grinding, % with element or MAG stats. also Photon Flare also works with this. Variance of 4 Damage.

Rod - Melee/Rod attack - It's the total S-ATK and total T-ATK + any grinding, % with element or MAG stats. Variance of 4 Damage.

Rod - Technic/Base attack - It's the total T-ATK + the Ability also MAG. ( bonuses after the requirement is met ) Then any grinding, % with element or MAG stats. also Photon Flare also works with this. Variance of 4 Damage.

I hope this help's and having any thought's on it would be great. [/SPOILER-BOX]

Physically attacking with a weapon will recharge PP quicker.

Rods: A pole-like weapon that amplifies technique power, and can be used to melee as well. These types of weapons are capable of damaging multiple targets with each melee swing. *Please supply any info/pics of specific types of rods*

Talis: A device that amplifies tech power and is capable of launching a "card". This card can attack a target physically, or it can be used as a medium to launch techniques from. Cards have a piercing effect and therefore can damage multiple targets. The distance of a thrown card when the first tech is cast on it affects the card's lifespan. The nearer the card is, the longer it will "live", and one can cast up to 5 techs from a single card with perfect timing. Nothing else seems to affect a card's lifespan. *Please supply any info/pics of specific types of Talis (correct name?) weapons*

[SPOILER-BOX]Rosa Crane:
Req T-ATK 172
T-ATK 144
[SPOILER-BOX] Description box:
http://i.imgur.com/AJASI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dCLhe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uwjJ5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/em0BJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jYss0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CODeG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3AY96.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
[/SPOILER-BOX]

Gunslash: No, this is not a Force exclusive weapon. Actually, it is open to all classes, and is thus an option for Forces. These weapons are guns that are designed to have a knife/sword type blade as well. As such, one can melee, do ranged damage, and even cast techniques with them equipped. However, they do not amplify tech power, so the caster must rely only on their innate tech power. In fact, this weapon is first put away when a tech is cast, and therefore makes chaining techs and other attacks slower.


SKILL TREE

Eclipse5632 has allowed me to use his translated Force skill tree picture and information. All the information in this section is credited to him. The information is from the second alpha, and he has warned me that some information has changed in the closed beta. Therefore, don't expect the information you find here to be 100% accurate.

UPDATE
Dinosaur has submitted a translated closed beta Force skill tree, so I have replaced the alpha-2 one with it. Note that the translated skill descriptions will be the same until someone submits new ones. Thanks Dinosaur!

TRANSLATED SKILL TREE
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh113/subarashee/PSO2/FOtree.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

SKILL DESCRIPTIONS

Magic Up 1: Raises your Magic Attack stat.

Tech Charge Advance 1: Increases the damage of charged techniques.

Tech Charge Advance 2: Increases the damage of charged techniques.

Charge PP Revival: Recover PP while charging.

Photon Flare: Temporarily increases your magic attack in exchange for lowered max HP.

Flame Mastery 1: Increases damage of flame techniques.

Flame Tech S Charge: Decreases the charge time of flame techniques.

Burn Boost: Increases the chance of inflicting burn.

Flame Mastery 2: Increases the power of flame techniques.

Ice Mastery 1: Increases the damage of ice techniques.

Freeze Boost: Increases the chance of inflicting freeze.

Ice Mastery 2: Increases the damage of ice techniques.

Freeze Ignition: Detonates frozen enemies, dealing huge damage.

Bolt Mastery 1: Increases the damage of lightning techniques.

Bolt Tech PP Save: Lowers the PP cost of lightning techniques.

Shock Boost: Increases the chance of inflicting shock.

Bolt Mastery 2: Increases the damage of lightning techniques.

Normal Tech Advance: Raises the damage of uncharged techniques.

PP Up 1: Increases your max PP.

PP Up 2: Increases your max PP.

Tech JA Advance: Grants bonus damage when performing a Just Attack with a technique.

Mirage Escape: Disrupts sensory information and moves a set distance while invincible.

Just Reversal: Use the Jump action to quickly get up when knocked down.

FenixStryk has noted that if one uses a mirage escape while in the air, there is a shorter post escape delay than if one uses the escape on the ground.


Vent's Skill Tree Opinion:
[SPOILER-BOX]Magic Up I:
Completely worthless. It's +50 TP at level. It might still be quite some at low levels, but remember this stat is static and does not scale at high levels, which stats in percentages do.

Charge Tech Build (Left Tree):
Seems the best way to go at the moment. The two charge attack up skills are in percentages, but are only 110% at level 10, which is probably still not worth leveling past the minimum requirement for the next skill. Photon Flare is interesting as a buff, with +200 TP (probably) at level 10. It is certainly one of the more significant skills, but it has pretty long cooldown. Of course the skill you really want to get in this tree is the Charge PP Revival, which allows you to regenerate PP while charging, which generates a lot of PP. It also turns the Ketos Proi Photon Blast from nearly useless to decent.

Elemental Tree (Middle):
Well you can divide this tree in three parts of course. You still need to get the first Charge Tech Up, but the worst thing you will need to get is the Magic Def Up, which gives you +10 M-DFP at level 3. Worthless. Then the good stuff come. The first level of every elemental boost skill instantly gives you +5% damage for that element, which is quite significant. But all levels after it give you 1%, which is better spent on Charge Tech Up I.

Fire tree might be interesting for the burn effect boost (+1% burn chance/level). I don't think the charge time decrease for fire spells is worth it. You do get a -10% charge time at level 1, but all levels after that only give you a -3% decrease for a total of -38% decrease at level 10. It might be handy, but not handy enough considering what you get from the lightning tree.

The ice tree is the worst in my opinion. Freeze Ignition is an active that damages all frozen enemies nearby with a 60% cooldown. However the daamge is very, very bad and so is the range. You can't level this skill past level 1 however, so I don't know its damage growth. Really not worth spending points into. If you want this tree you will probably do it for the freezing effect and going utility as a Force.

The Lighning tree is pretty crazy in my opinion. The Volt PP Save skill decreases your lightning techniques with 1 PP for every level. Now lightning techniques are pretty expensive PP wise and this one completely solves that problem at the expense of 10 skill points. If they decide to decrease the PP costs of lightning techs somewhat (it's too high at the moment in my opinion), then you can more or less spam charged lightning techs ad infinitum if you have Charge PP Revival too.

Final note for elemental tree. Specializing in one element is really risky. The damage difference between hitting the enemy with their weakness or not might not be too significant now, but it will probably be a whole different story at higher levels. Think Ultimate difficulty in PSO; hitting with the wrong element does 0 damage and near 0 damage with semi-wrong element.

Random Build (Right tree):
This build gives you some increase in damage for normal techs (+1%/level), some PP (+1 Max PP/level), Magic Up II (+50 TP at level 10 again) and more damage from tech just attacks (+1%/level). Just look at these numbers and you will notice this is by far the worst build you can get. The just attack boost is at the end of the tree and is basically worthless. Yes, it does boost both charged and non charged tech damage, but when was the last time you were using normal techs? Those PP ups can give you +20 PP at the cost of 20 skill points. With an extra 20 PP you can cast one more Foie with a maxed pool. Great?...[/SPOILER-BOX]

Below you can find the link to Eclipse5632's original post where I obtained the information.

MAGICAL LINK COME FORTH!

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193026


Please help me out with this everyone. All I have to go on is information that you provide me. If I have made a mistake, by all means, please correct me. Credit will be given to only the first instance of each new piece of information. Thanks.

[Jonth]

Credits

Randomness
White
terrell707
LazyRob
Spellbinder
Polantaris
Crystal_Shard
Nanotae
Mizumi323
goombazoid
Dinosaur

Special Thanks

Vent - For allowing me to steal his photos from his blog.

Eclipse5632 - For allowing me to use his translated Force skill tree image and info.

Arika - For the Technique showcase video.

Omega-z - For researching the damage mechanics of the weapons available to Forces, and thereby providing me with some of the best news I've had all day.

[Randomness]

Sazonde appears to do two things:
1) I do believe a slight increase in lightning damage occurs
2) Using another lightning tech will set off the Sazonde charge on the enemy, dealing MASSIVE periodic damage. (On a rockbear, Sazonde to the head ticks for around 90/hit, and does 4-5 hits. My Zonde blasts only hit for 250)

It only hits a single target, even charged. But it doesn't matter, it does REALLY good damage if you can set it off.

[Jonth]

Sazonde appears to do two things:
1) I do believe a slight increase in lightning damage occurs
2) Using another lightning tech will set off the Sazonde charge on the enemy, dealing MASSIVE periodic damage. (On a rockbear, Sazonde to the head ticks for around 90/hit, and does 4-5 hits. My Zonde blasts only hit for 250)

It only hits a single target, even charged. But it doesn't matter, it does REALLY good damage if you can set it off.

Thanks for the quick reply, and I will update the information.

[White]

Also, you forgot Grants and I think Reverser. Grants does what its PSO description says it does, deals heavy damage to a single target by pelting it with countless arrows of light. Reverser is the same effect as PSU; removing status ailments.

[terrell707]

Shock: Stops enemies from attacking. They can still move though
Freeze: Stops enemies from attacking and moving. Doing enough damage to them breaks them out prematurely though.

[Randomness]

Sazonde stacks. If you land another Sazonde on an enemy you've already set one off on, it immediately goes off.

I had a rockbear with three separate Sazondes going at once just now. My current combo against them is now Sazonde>Zonde>Sazonde>Sazonde (100 PP used, if this all hits the head... KABLAMO)

[Jonth]

Also, you forgot Grants and I think Reverser. Grants does what its PSO description says it does, deals heavy damage to a single target by pelting it with countless arrows of light. Reverser is the same effect as PSU; removing status ailments.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't even sure those two were out yet. Might I get a little bit more information from you since I didn't really play PSO? You say Grants rains down countless arrows of light. Does that mean it has an extended battle animation like Gifoie, or does it rain those arrows down all at once? Also, do the arrow count as only one hit, or do they hit separately?

[White]

Thanks for the info. I wasn't even sure those two were out yet. Might I get a little bit more information from you since I didn't really play PSO? You say Grants rains down countless arrows of light. Does that mean it has an extended battle animation like Gifoie, or does it rain those arrows down all at once? Also, do the arrow count as only one hit, or do they hit separately?
They rain almost simultaneously and each arrow hits separately, so its like a lot of small hits that add up to big damage. I saw reverser in one person's force video, its like a blue version of resta and grants was in the beta trailer. I'll see if I can find it for you.

[foreignreign]

Deband is considered an ice spell. I would assume that Shifta is likewise a fire spell.

[White]

Okay at about 4:45 it shows deband <3 lucky I forgot about it

At 5:00 is Grants


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPv2SZFJP0k

And this video shows reverser at 3:30


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2qJiB2NkFQ

[LazyRob]

Foie: Shoots out a ball of fire. Deals single target damage.


Not fully true.
If you use Z targeting (Or if you're lucky, without Z targeting) if your Foie brushes up against another enemy during its' travel to the targeted enemy, it will deal full damage to both targets. If you time it right, you can have a single foie hit multiple enemies for the best efficiency.
I think my max amount of hits with a single foie was either 4-5 enemies during the rockbear quest

[Randomness]

Oh, Rods and cards both have AoE to their attacks - rods hit everything in front of you, cards fly through stuff.

[White]

Pretty much any tech that is charged will hit multiple targets. Grants is probably the only exception....and maybe sazonde, but I dont know how sazonde works.

[Spellbinder]

Just want to note that the description for Gizonde is not right. It shoots lightning at one target and it arcs to other targets, like it did in PSO. If you'd like as to doubly check, I can compare the Japanese descriptions to the ones you've put in the original post, although as far as I can tell they explain what everything does.

[Polantaris]

There's another Grants type spell that does AOE similar to Rabarta, however I haven't seen the disc. マーロー (Partner NPC) uses it, which is how I know it exists but don't know the name or even if it's available for player Forces yet. I imagine it's Ragrants, since Rabarta does a similar effect.

The effect kind of looks like a light beam circling the focal point of the spell (Player/Card) while illuminating the entire area of effect.

Also, Rabarta's center is definitely the player/card, not the auto targeted enemy.

Gibarta shoots an wide range spread of ice from the casting point. Much like PSU's DAM category spells, except that you don't need to hold down the spell, once you cast it it goes off on it's own. It also has a much larger spread. Think shotguns, where ice shards are the pellets.

Also, not a big deal, but you spelled Lightning incorrectly (No e).

I kinda liked it better when the prefix to the element name determined what type of spell you were dealing with. IE: Ra- spells always did the same general effect, same thing with every other prefix. In PSO2, Ra could mean 5 different things, depending on what element you're dealing with. It seemed a lot more thought out in PSU in that regard.

[Randomness]

There's another Grants type spell that does AOE similar to Rabarta, however I haven't seen the disc. マーロー (Partner NPC) uses it, which is how I know it exists but don't know the name or even if it's available for player Forces yet. I imagine it's Ragrants, since Rabarta does a similar effect.

The effect kind of looks like a light beam circling the focal point of the spell (Player/Card) while illuminating the entire area of effect.

Also, Rabarta's center is definitely the player/card, not the auto targeted enemy.

Gibarta shoots an wide range spread of ice from the casting point. Much like PSU's DAM category spells, except that you don't need to hold down the spell, once you cast it it goes off on it's own. It also has a much larger spread. Think shotguns, where ice shards are the pellets.

Also, not a big deal, but you spelled Lightning incorrectly (No e).

I kinda liked it better when the prefix to the element name determined what type of spell you were dealing with. IE: Ra- spells always did the same general effect, same thing with every other prefix. In PSO2, Ra could mean 5 different things, depending on what element you're dealing with. It seemed a lot more thought out in PSU in that regard.

PSO2 techs all function the same as in PSO. Not hard at all for some of us.

[8BitGinno]

Very informative. I learned most of this while playing though, and just experiencing it.

Any other talis card users out there that dislike the fact that the cards are auto-aimed at the nearest enemy? This makes it hard to aim for teammates to cast Resta on them. Wish there was an option to turn of auto-targetting. :(

Also, charging techs shouldn't use up PP in my opinion. Just the act of actually casting it. Let's say you cancel it by dashing or whatnot. The PP is still used.

[Crystal_Shard]

Just dropping a few pictures of Zonde being cast, and casting Razonde + Gifoie from a card:
[spoiler-box]
http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-01.jpg http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-02.jpg http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-05.jpg http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-06.jpg http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-07.jpg [/spoiler-box]

Might be a good idea to trawl through the pictures thread for any others.

[White]

Very informative. I learned most of this while playing though, and just experiencing it.

Any other talis card users out there that dislike the fact that the cards are auto-aimed at the nearest enemy? This makes it hard to aim for teammates to cast Resta on them. Wish there was an option to turn of auto-targetting. :(

Also, charging techs shouldn't use up PP in my opinion. Just the act of actually casting it. Let's say you cancel it by dashing or whatnot. The PP is still used.
Cant you use the first person view? If not, send them some feedback, you're a beta tester, they actually listen to you.

[Jonth]

Great stuff everyone, keep it coming. Special thanks for correcting me on the descriptions, all I really have for a reference was PSU, so you can see me making that mistake. Might not get everything updated tonight as I must go to bed soon, but I do a bit.

Also, glad to hear that rods can hit multiple targets. Is there a limit on the number of enemies they will hit in one swing?

[FenixStryk]

Zonde: summons a small bolt of lightning from the sky that strikes directly downward, hitting the enemy.

Razonde: shoots out a bolt of lightning from the user or card that, on hit, chains onto all nearby enemies. Hits once per target. Will not cause a chain lightning effect if it does not hit an initial target.

Gibarta: calls forth a small whirling blizzard at the user's or card's location that lingers for approximately three seconds. Hits up to three times.


As an aside, I've been using cards with Gibarta, Razonde and Rafoie. It covers all three elements in addition to giving me options for Single Target (Rafoie), Area of Effect (Gibarta for clusters, else Razonde), and Crowd Control (Gibarta).

As for builds: IMO, Forces at this cap benefit most from grabbing PP Revival, attainable at Level 19 if you skip Just Reversal, and 20 if you don't. The amount of PP you generate from it during normal attack patterns is extremely notable (around 7 per Rafoie cast; reducing net cost from 20 to 13). When the cap is raised to 40 or so, I'd be extremely interested in seeing what a PP Revival + Zonde PP Cost Reduction build would be like...

[Crystal_Shard]

I'm noticing a few people mixing up Gizonde and Razonde. Fyi, Gizonde's the one that shoots a bolt of lightning that arcs to nearby enemies. Razonde channels an overhead spark that discharges bolts of lightning in a conical radius towards the ground.

[Spellbinder]

Zonde: summons a small bolt of lightning from the sky that strikes directly downward, hitting the enemy.

Razonde: shoots out a bolt of lightning from the user or card that, on hit, chains onto all nearby enemies. Hits once per target. Will not cause a chain lightning effect if it does not hit an initial target.

Gibarta: calls forth a small whirling blizzard at the user's or card's location that lingers for approximately three seconds. Hits up to three times.


As an aside, I've been using cards with Gibarta, Razonde and Rafoie. It covers all three elements in addition to giving me options for Single Target (Rafoie), Area of Effect (Gibarta for clusters, else Razonde), and Crowd Control (Gibarta).

As for builds: IMO, Forces at this cap benefit most from grabbing PP Revival, attainable at Level 19 if you skip Just Reversal, and 20 if you don't. The amount of PP you generate from it during normal attack patterns is extremely notable (around 7 per Rafoie cast; reducing net cost from 20 to 13). When the cap is raised to 40 or so, I'd be extremely interested in seeing what a PP Revival + Zonde PP Cost Reduction build would be like...

That's Gizonde not Razonde, and Rabarta not Gibarta. Also Rafoie is an area attack unless you meant Foie.

[Crystal_Shard]

Just another fyi - if you're concerned about SP, don't be. I just found out what they mean by buying extra skill trees. You can buy two, three or maybe four skill trees, and each comes with their own skill points. ie: spend 10 AC for each extra skill tree, get an extra empty tree with all the SP you've gained thus far to specialize in a specific branch.

Still not sure how I feel about this though. Feels a little hax TBH.

[Randomness]

Cant you use the first person view? If not, send them some feedback, you're a beta tester, they actually listen to you.

Yes, you can switch to the shooting mode with Z.

Actually, I think you can switch to that on any weapon. It works for Rods and Gunslashes too (To be fair, both of those make plenty of sense, since you have techs that fire out and gunslashes are, well, guns). Haven't tested on HU weapons, but...


It's worth noting that Razonde's area increases significantly the higher up it's used from (to a point - it can be fired so high it no longer touches the ground, but you have to basically throw a card straight up for that). This is difficult to make use of without cards, but with cards, it's as large as, or larger than, the coverage of Rafoie.

I honestly have to wonder about fire and ice right now - Barta techs can benefit from cards due to short ranges on higher ones. Razonde is a BEAST when used with cards. But the Foie series is lacking there a bit... though since rods are higher in damage numbers, and fire techs are clearly the big numbers ones (One of the skills for FOs dramatically boosts charged fire tech damage), I think it almost might be intentional...

Still wondering if a Safoie or Sabarta exists. Would be interesting to see a non-damage skill in the vein of Sazonde for them... though I suspect they just get Shifta/Deband instead or something.

[Spellbinder]

Just another fyi - if you're concerned about SP, don't be. I just found out what they mean by buying extra skill trees. You can buy two, three or maybe four skill trees, and each comes with their own skill points. ie: spend 10 AC for each extra skill tree, get an extra empty tree with all the SP you've gained thus far to specialize in a specific branch.

Still not sure how I feel about this though. Feels a little hax TBH.

I don't think it's that bad. If you could switch mid-combat or something like that, then I'd be worried.

[Jonth]

Just dropping a few pictures of Zonde being cast, and casting Razonde + Gifoie from a card:
[spoiler-box]
http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-01.jpg http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-02.jpg http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-05.jpg http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-06.jpg http://www.crystal-shard.com/phantasy-star/pso2-cbt-crystal-07.jpg [/spoiler-box]

Might be a good idea to trawl through the pictures thread for any others.

You don't know how glad I am to have decent tech pics. I have looked through pretty much every picture in that thread (barring the more recent ones), and they failed to provide very many tech pics.

[foreignreign]

I've really tried to like Razonde, since I love the idea of a lightning shower-type attack.

But it just takes too much effort for my lazy self. Switching to manual aim (usually in regular perspective since I like slashing things as much as casting) and then throwing a card into the sky, high enough so that Razonde gets a nice effect area, and possibly behind me so that I can have the mob chase me to the card, is just way too much effort when I can get the job done in the same amount of time by just casting a Gizonde, or maybe two. Hell, even if two Gizondes take up more PP, you can probably break even PP cost wise since you're managing the battle in less time.

I'm sure in party scenarios where someone is actively herding monsters for me (and as I write this post, I really want to party with a HU with War Cry/aggro grabbing skill now to try this out), Razonde will be useful but... when all of our pings are high, it's just too tedious to do properly.

[Xeno88]

Are dark (pso) and earth(psu) techs returning?
EDIT: now that i think about it, there should be many more classes of techs we haven't seen, such as wind, because I saw a weapon with a plus in wind damage i think

[Crystal_Shard]

You don't know how glad I am to have decent tech pics. I have looked through pretty much every picture in that thread (barring the more recent ones), and they failed to provide very many tech pics.

Might have a few more I can pass you. I recorded quite a bit of footage (HDD is running out of space though. Got a few 10-15 GB raw avi files. orz) but as I tend to use only a handful of techs in actual combat, I may need to take a few on purpose when the servers get back up.

@Spellbinder: I'm not sure if it's a case of switching between skill trees... it looks more like all three skill trees are used simultaneously on my character. I have to test a bit more though, since it's a bit new to me.

[Jonth]

Might have a few more I can pass you. I recorded quite a bit of footage (HDD is running out of space though. Got a few 10-15 GB raw avi files. orz) but as I tend to use only a handful of techs in actual combat, I may need to take a few on purpose when the servers get back up.

I would love to have more pics. Unfortunately I don't really have the means to edit videos to get a few seconds for the techs, or else I would want those as well.

That's going to be it for me tonight everybody. Thanks so much for your assistance and contributions, I got a whole lot more up tonight than I thought I would. I'll be back tomorrow to update more.

[Spellbinder]

Might have a few more I can pass you. I recorded quite a bit of footage (HDD is running out of space though. Got a few 10-15 GB raw avi files. orz) but as I tend to use only a handful of techs in actual combat, I may need to take a few on purpose when the servers get back up.

@Spellbinder: I'm not sure if it's a case of switching between skill trees... it looks more like all three skill trees are used simultaneously on my character. I have to test a bit more though, since it's a bit new to me.

I'm fairly sure its switching. You have to go to the class switching menu to pick one as if you were changing to Hunter or Ranger. For example, on one of my trees I went through the left side to get the PP Charging skill, but if I switch to the other tree I can't use it.

[Polantaris]

Just another fyi - if you're concerned about SP, don't be. I just found out what they mean by buying extra skill trees. You can buy two, three or maybe four skill trees, and each comes with their own skill points. ie: spend 10 AC for each extra skill tree, get an extra empty tree with all the SP you've gained thus far to specialize in a specific branch.

Still not sure how I feel about this though. Feels a little hax TBH.

It's highly likely you'll have to set one to Active, so you won't be able to have 60+ SP active at Lv.20, and 120+ at Lv.40. You probably set it at the same NPC you set your SP at.


Great stuff everyone, keep it coming. Special thanks for correcting me on the descriptions, all I really have for a reference was PSU, so you can see me making that mistake. Might not get everything updated tonight as I must go to bed soon, but I do a bit.

Also, glad to hear that rods can hit multiple targets. Is there a limit on the number of enemies they will hit in one swing?

Some more things I've noticed:
Foie - Enemies can be skimmed by the Fireball. For example, if you're aiming at an enemy far out, and the Fireball passes another enemy very closely but it doesn't directly interfere with the Fireball, both enemies will take damage. This is hard to perform, so I might be a little off on how it works, but I've noticed hitting enemies close to me when shooting at enemies far away. Unfortunately since I got RaFoie I kind of don't use regular Foie at all anymore, so I didn't experiment too much with this.

Zonde - Can hit multiple targets. Zonde is basically Lightning RaFoie.

RaZonde - Might want to mention that height helps the range of this ability. Jumping or placing a Card in the air can dramatically increase the effectiveness of this spell.

GiZonde - Essentially Chain Lightning.

SaZonde - I BELIEVE this ability can stack upon itself. It's hard to really test it except on some boss monsters (That lizard thing burrows far too much to be a stable testing monster). If you go SaZonde -> Zonde -> SaZonde, I believe the second SaZonde is set off by the tick damage of the first SaZonde. I intend to test this more when I get the skill to recover PP while charging, because I don't have enough to test it thoroughly without it.

Barta - Not a linear path. It's based on the terrain. It will travel down hills and around rocks. This is best observed in the Volcano areas.

RaBarta - Does 4 hits. 2 when first cast, then 2 more over time.

GiBarta - I believe it does 4 hits just like RaBarta, but the range is awful so I barely used this Tech. I can test it more if wanted.

Shifta + Deband - I suspect that they made Shifta effect all attack powers, and Deband effect all defenses, much like they did in PSP2 (if I remember correctly). I don't know if your stat tables are updated though, but I can take a look at the skill description after maintenance.

RaGrants - From what I noticed from the NPC using it, this seems to be a quick 1-hit skill that has a range similar to RaBarta, however hits like RaFoie. It seems to hit once, in the entire range. I can take a screenshot of this ability next time I'm using the NPC. I really wish I could get a Disc of this to give more information on it.



PSO2 techs all function the same as in PSO. Not hard at all for some of us.

Eh I never said it was hard to figure out, especially with the fancy skill icons, however I feel like it made more sense to have the prefix reference what type of spell it will be. Seemed to be more thought out that way. Here it just seems like the first spell they thought of after the base one got X Prefix, while the second got Y prefix, which is possible that's how they did it when making PSO1.

[Nanotae]

Barta kinda arcs when fired up too, It doesn't travel in a straight line until it makes contact like Foie, but it does follow terrain once it lands like usual. Makes it pretty hard to hit aerial targets with it though.

Nothing like a giant stream of Ice falling from the sky though.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/yukiyukisuki/pso20120422_102302_002.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Sazonde status in effect for reference while I'm here. From what I can tell charge makes it last longer, but it should be tested to see if charging makes the DoT hit higher.
[spoiler-box]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/yukiyukisuki/pso20120422_102459_003.png[/spoiler-box]

[Vent]

The Reverser you mention is called Anti. Anti is the PSO name for the effect you described. PSU used the name Reverser, but in PSO2 it is Anti.

[Spellbinder]

From what I can tell with Sazonde, is that it does damage twice if uncharged and 4 times when fully charged.

Edit: It's too laggy I think to say for sure how many times, but the damage seemed the same. Charged and uncharged.

[Dragwind]

From what I can tell with Sazonde, is that it does damage twice if uncharged and 4 times when fully charged.

Edit: It's too laggy I think to say for sure how many times, but the damage seemed the same. Charged and uncharged.

I've been trying to test this too, but having the same issue being able to tell due to lag.

[Mizumi323]

Hm...Should you add the gunslash to the list of weapons? While all classes can use it, it's still one of the options open to the Force. ^^;

[Jonth]

Okay, new info has been updated. I am currently in need of some more pictures (both of techs, and weapons (if you can, equip said weapon and get a good pose showing the weapon real well)), info (such as stats) of weapons, and a bit more research done on a few of the techs. Everything is coming along great, thanks again.

[Polantaris]

However, they do not amplify tech power (need verification), so the caster must rely only on their innate tech power.

This is true. You can tell when this is the case because casting without a Rod or Card puts your weapon away, and your character uses their hands.

Also might want to mention that you can key any technic to the Palette, and use them from there (Especially helpful for buffs and SaZonde, no reason to key them to your weapon).

[Vent]

Okay I got my hands on Gigrants (the tech Maru uses).

First thing I have to say is that I think it is bugged, because it is ridiculously weak. If it isn't charged, one single blade extends in front of you and hits all enemies in front of you. When charged, four blades extend in different directions and seem to hit 360 degrees around you.

After extending, the blades make a 360 turn hitting NOTHING! So the tech basically only does 1 hit and is therefore, useless with a power stat even less than Gifoie (which hits like 5 times?).

I can post pictures if you want.

[Randomness]

Okay I got my hands on Gigrants (the tech Maru uses).

First thing I have to say is that I think it is bugged, because it is ridiculously weak. If it isn't charged, one single blade extends in front of you and hits all enemies in front of you. When charged, four blades extends in different directions and seem to hit 360 degrees around you.

After extending, the blades make a 360 turn hitting NOTHING! So the tech basically only does 1 hit and is therefore, useless with a power stat even less than Gifoie (which hits like 5 times?).

I can post pictures if you want.

Odd. Sounds like the intent is for each blade to make a hit on extending, and a hit on rotating... so four or five hits.

[Spellbinder]

Okay I got my hands on Gigrants (the tech Maru uses).

First thing I have to say is that I think it is bugged, because it is ridiculously weak. If it isn't charged, one single blade extends in front of you and hits all enemies in front of you. When charged, four blades extends in different directions and seem to hit 360 degrees around you.

After extending, the blades make a 360 turn hitting NOTHING! So the tech basically only does 1 hit and is therefore, useless with a power stat even less than Gifoie (which hits like 5 times?).

I can post pictures if you want.

If I may ask, do you remember where you found the disk?

[Vent]

Yeah, I think a charged Gigrants is supposed to do 5 hits, which will put it on par with other Gi-techs.

You get the tech from Maru, if you befriended her enough.

[White]

Post pics! I love the light techs...

[Jonth]

Yes please post pics, because I am hoping to get at least one pic per tech. So does it have an extended battle animation like Gifoie, or do you assume the theoretical 5 hits occur really fast? Another thing, can someone verify the name on this one? I had originally been told Ragrants, but now I'm told Gigrants... Gifoie is centered on casting point, but Rabarta is the most similar Barta tech to Gifoie... Confusing as heck to me without an official source in my native language.

[Vent]

It's Gigrants. If you have seen Maru cast the thing, the spell only lasts for like 1 second. It's pretty much gone in an instant. So it doesn't have an extended duration like Gifoie or Rabarta.

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq60/VentAileron/pso20120422_234307_002.png

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq60/VentAileron/pso20120422_234329_006.png

Just Grants.

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq60/VentAileron/pso20120422_234818_007.png

I'll help you get the other pics Jonth. I think I own all the techs currently available now. But it will have to wait till tormorrow. :P

[D-Inferno]

Does anyone know where Sazonde, Grants, Gigrants, and Anti drop?

I know that the Ice, Lightning (barring Sazonde), and Resta drop in Forest, and the Fire techs (I assume Shifta drops there).

[Randomness]

Does anyone know where Sazonde, Grants, Gigrants, and Anti drop?

I know that the Ice, Lightning (barring Sazonde), and Resta drop in Forest, and the Fire techs (I assume Shifta drops there).

Sazonde drops in the forest area. I don't know if discs have specific places they drop... I do know you tend to get mostly stuff for your active class.

[PALRAPPYS]

Just a few things I'd like to bring up...

For the talis weapon type, does anyone know how to tell if you're casting from your talis or on you? It's very frustrating to throw out a talis to regenerate some PP and then cast a spell around 5 seconds later that you intend to cast on yourself but it'll still come out on the talis, and other times you cast out a talis and then immediately use a spell and it'll come out on you. It's quite annoying...

Also, for the skill tree, is it just me or is the PP up skill only giving 1 PP per SP really lame? Since there are two separate PP up tabs, that means you can get a total of 20 extra PP. But that... is so little. I would have expected around 3-5 PP per SP so that you could reach 150-200 total SP without weapons/accessories.

[Mizumi323]

Just a few things I'd like to bring up...

For the talis weapon type, does anyone know how to tell if you're casting from your talis or on you? It's very frustrating to throw out a talis to regenerate some PP and then cast a spell around 5 seconds later that you intend to cast on yourself but it'll still come out on the talis, and other times you cast out a talis and then immediately use a spell and it'll come out on you. It's quite annoying...

It would appear that the majority of times you cast from a tali is when you 'combo' a spell immediately after throwing one of the tali cards. Example; Throw Tali -> Throw Tali (Combo) -> Cast Foie (Combo)

[LazyRob]

Does anyone know how to put a physical attack back on to your weapon pallet for attacking with a staff/wand (Whichever one has melee attacking with it). I click on one of the four slots next to my weapons, but all it gives me are my tech attacks to assign besides when I have a gunblade pulled out.

[Rizen]

Just a few things I'd like to bring up...

For the talis weapon type, does anyone know how to tell if you're casting from your talis or on you? It's very frustrating to throw out a talis to regenerate some PP and then cast a spell around 5 seconds later that you intend to cast on yourself but it'll still come out on the talis, and other times you cast out a talis and then immediately use a spell and it'll come out on you. It's quite annoying...

Also, for the skill tree, is it just me or is the PP up skill only giving 1 PP per SP really lame? Since there are two separate PP up tabs, that means you can get a total of 20 extra PP. But that... is so little. I would have expected around 3-5 PP per SP so that you could reach 150-200 total SP without weapons/accessories.
I believe if you are casting from your talis, the charging aura will be around it. If you are casting from yourself, you should have the charging aura....I will confirm in a sec.

[Randomness]

I believe if you are casting from your talis, the charging aura will be around it. If you are casting from yourself, you should have the charging aura....I will confirm in a sec.

More specifically, if you're holding the green card, you're casting from yourself. If you aren't, you're casting from the green card.

Basically, the spell always comes from the card.

[Rizen]

Since there is a topic dedicated to force...let me ask this.

Can people show their setup for Force Weapon Palettes and Subpalettes? I've been tossing around spells left and right suit all situations and having little luck. I'm comfortable with one right now, but want to see if I can improve it any.

[Omega-z]

so Gigrants is from a Npc, How about Grants and Anti(if this one drops in forest still).

Sun Sol - yes Shifta does drop in caves.

there could be other buff tech's going off the Data-Mining maybec?

Oh, Rafoie is Better then Foie it's faster and it can be use to help track down faster or out of reach foe's.

Oh, has anyone notice the option above the PP up during charge on the skill tree? Is that a Revenge Blaster of sorts for Force?

[LazyRob]

Select the icon that's the first on the right in the equipment PA assignment section, right next to the weapon icon, and scroll all the way to the bottom to remove whatever Tech you have assigned to the slot. This gives you back your Melee strike.


You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Seriously. Something so obvious and it just flew over my head lmfao

Thanks a bunch!

[goombazoid]

Hey force-enthusiasts, I found this rare card weapon, it didn't even have to be tekked; It just showed up on the ground as a red card type.

[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/AJASI.jpg[/spoiler-box]

I'm levelling my cast as a force now so I'll get some pics of it in action when I can.

[D-Inferno]

so Gigrants is from a Npc, How about Grants and Anti(if this one drops in forest still).

Sun Sol - yes Shifta does drop in caves.

there could be other buff tech's going off the Data-Mining maybec?

Oh, Rafoie is Better then Foie it's faster and it can be use to help track down faster or out of reach foe's.

Oh, has anyone notice the option above the PP up during charge on the skill tree? Is that a Revenge Blaster of sorts for Force?

Which NPC, and what are the steps to getting it?

[foreignreign]

Freeze Ignition is soooooooooooooooooo disappointing.

Did half the damage of my Bartas. Think you can't even charge the thing either.

[Jonth]

Hey force-enthusiasts, I found this rare card weapon, it didn't even have to be tekked; It just showed up on the ground as a red card type.

[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/AJASI.jpg[/spoiler-box]

I'm levelling my cast as a force now so I'll get some pics of it in action when I can.

Awesome find! Can anyone translate the name of this Talis for me? Anyway, I will post this image up, and when you get some action shots with it, I would love to have those as well.

Thanks so much for your efforts Vent, I will be looking forward to the rest of your tech pics.

[goombazoid]

Awesome find! Can anyone translate the name of this Talis for me? Anyway, I will post this image up, and when you get some action shots with it, I would love to have those as well.

Thanks so much for your efforts Vent, I will be looking forward to the rest of your tech pics.

I will try to get a pic of the second page of the item as well when the servers are back up.

[Spellbinder]

Judging by its feather look, I'd say Rosa Crane sounds about right. It's a pity I upgraded my card so now it's a lot stronger than that one.

[Menochi]

Where did you find it? Shame it's weak, but if you get lucky and get Ragne Soul on it, could be pretty nice.

[goombazoid]

Where did you find it? Shame it's weak, but if you get lucky and get Ragne Soul on it, could be pretty nice.

I'm almost certain it was the free forest mission. I remember it dropping after the rockbears.

[Rizen]

I feel ignored. :( *goes off in corner*

[Menochi]

I feel ignored. :( *goes off in corner*

Hard to show while the game is down. Heh

I pretty much use just the one talis and switch Ra-barta with gi-zonde depending on zone. Rod for buffing.

Card Throw > Foie / Gi-zonde > Resta

Buffs are on the worthless junk rod I still keep.

[Rizen]

Hard to show while the game is down. Heh

I pretty much use just the one talis and switch Ra-barta with gi-zonde depending on zone. Rod for buffing.

Card Throw > Foie / Gi-zonde > Resta

Buffs are on the worthless junk rod I still keep.
I'm just giving people a hard time. :P

But I'm sure people have screenshots of their subpalette.

I personally have a palette for every element for Talis and a rod for Foie and Barta. My subpalette has Resta and Deband on it.

[Arika]

Well, for the FO, there is only 2 big major route in skill tree. or you might divided it into three.

First route is for normal tech spam. It will add you more PP, and also increase your bonus grant by just attack timing. It route is shortest, mainly base on just PP boost and JA boost. (can boost multiple time)

Second route is for charge tech. Basically this route also divide into two style. But you will grant "tech-charge advance" that boost tech damage after charge it first.

2.1 the route to the left side will grant you another "tech charge advance II" which also grant you the same bonus as the previous one to add more charge damage. and when you go this route until the end, you will get "tech focus" (the only passive skill for FO that will increase tech damage for small duration of time) and "tech PP charge" (that will regen your PP while charging tech which will allow you to keep doing tech without go for normal attack)

2.2 the next route is very simply, you will branch into each elemental zone for you to professional each of them. It will have status effect boost, damage boost, and some element may have additional skill such as Ice will have "Ice Ignition" skill that deal very big damage to enemy when you break his freeze status. (break ice)

[Jonth]

It has been another productive day for this thread, but as for now, I am going to bed. I will be back tomorrow to update with any newly provided info.

We are well on our way to getting the tech section done, but we still need a lot of information for the weapon section. I am hoping for images of even the common weapons you can get easily, although the rares are of course cooler finds. If anyone can read Japanese, translation of weapon names would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks once again!

[Polantaris]

That rare Card find definitely seems to be named Rosa Crane. The romaji of ローザクレイン is "ro-za kurein".

[Vent]

Anti is a drop in caves, but you can also get it from Echo. You can get Grants (it's awesome!) from Maru. To raise their affinity to you, just bring them along on your missions as partners.

It's wayyyy too early to call anything on skill builds. The skill tree got a big requirements revamp after alpha-2 and it will probably change again when open beta hits. Another thing to keep in mind that, yes, you can only go down the tree in one direction at the moment, but the level cap is only level 20 at the moment. Just consider if they don't add more skills to each tree and raise the cap to level 50? Suddenly more possibilities open up.

That's why I keep saying that one shouldn't think forward too much at this point. You'll just end up wasting your effort.

[goombazoid]

Here are the 2nd and 3rd pages of the rare talis I found:

[spoiler-box]
http://i.imgur.com/dCLhe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uwjJ5.jpg
[/spoiler-box]

Nothing particularly interesting, just thought I'd share.

[foreignreign]

Anti is a drop in caves, but you can also get it from Echo. You can get Grants (it's awesome!) from Maru. To raise their affinity to you, just bring them along on your missions as partners.

The NPCs can give you gifts?

Huh.

[Polantaris]

The NPCs can give you gifts?

Huh.

Yeah. After you use them a lot in Missions, talk to them and choose the first option. If they like you enough they start giving you gifts.

[Menochi]

If it's anything special, assuming current content on release, Ragne will be the go-to boss for Forces due to his soul boosting TP by 30 and HP by 20

[Arika]

If it's anything special, assuming current content on release, Ragne will be the go-to boss for Forces due to his soul boosting TP by 30 and HP by 20

Menochi, what ship do you on? I already found vectorman, Kesera and other, still never meet u yet.

[Omega-z]

Vent - IS Echo the Newman female in red next to the Skill counter? and where is Maru located? and a noob Question how do you add Npc's/ character's...IS it AC? I haven't figure out the AC bit at all been trying to find stuff and can't find it...I a Lawz on that one lol.

[Vent]

Yes, Echo is the girl in a red dress. Maru is the girl with purple hair and a purple FOmarl dress. Both are located in the gate area of the lobby.

When you are in the camp ship, look for a counter at the window with a 'i' icon. You can call partners you got from there. However, you only can summon them after you completed a client order from them that has their card as a reward. You do not need AC to do this.

[Omega-z]

Ah I see is there Client Order Easy enough? I've done almost two Npc's Order's the Coffey one's and the Force teching one the little newman next to center elevator. Since I have every thing in JP.:}

[Randomness]

Well, for the FO, there is only 2 big major route in skill tree. or you might divided it into three.

First route is for normal tech spam. It will add you more PP, and also increase your bonus grant by just attack timing. It route is shortest, mainly base on just PP boost and JA boost. (can boost multiple time)

Second route is for charge tech. Basically this route also divide into two style. But you will grant "tech-charge advance" that boost tech damage after charge it first.

2.1 the route to the left side will grant you another "tech charge advance II" which also grant you the same bonus as the previous one to add more charge damage. and when you go this route until the end, you will get "tech focus" (the only passive skill for FO that will increase tech damage for small duration of time) and "tech PP charge" (that will regen your PP while charging tech which will allow you to keep doing tech without go for normal attack)

2.2 the next route is very simply, you will branch into each elemental zone for you to professional each of them. It will have status effect boost, damage boost, and some element may have additional skill such as Ice will have "Ice Ignition" skill that deal very big damage to enemy when you break his freeze status. (break ice)

The element boosts should absolutely be taken by everyone imo. At least, you should put one point into each... that first point is worth 5% more damage. 3 SP to boost my tech damage by 5% outright seems good. (Shame there's no light branch)

[Crystal_Shard]

Any cue on when Maru is likely to hand out Grantz and Gigrantz, or is it fairly random? Wondering the same about Echo and Anti.

[Polantaris]

The element boosts should absolutely be taken by everyone imo. At least, you should put one point into each... that first point is worth 5% more damage. 3 SP to boost my tech damage by 5% outright seems good. (Shame there's no light branch)

In CBT you can't both get the elemental boosts and the PP Recovery while charging. I think that the Recovery while charging is the biggest DPS boost you'll be able to get as a Force. As someone else mentioned, in the time it takes you to fully charge any Tech, you get back 7PP. Add in the situations where you can't cast immediately after you finish charging, and you have huge boosts in the PP department. It's essentially a 25-33% PP Reduction on all Spells. Plus some of the skills you get on the way to get that kill are nice. +100 Tech at the cost of some HP is a decent skill, too.

[Jonth]

The first page has been updated with a lot of information, thanks to Vent and Eclipse 5632. That very nearly completes all sections except for the weapons section. The weapon section needs a lot of info and pictures. If anyone gets the opportunity, please help me out.

[bouzeu]

hi, is it possible, like psu, to have an hunter who can do some magic?

[Randomness]

hi, is it possible, like psu, to have an hunter who can do some magic?

No, HUs can't use techs, even newmans. You can, however, be a force and use gunslashes to a decent degree, which is the closest you can get atm (To be fair, gunslashes on a force DO do decent damage)

[Jonth]

hi, is it possible, like psu, to have an hunter who can do some magic?

Well, technically, it wasn't possible for a Hunter to use techs in PSU (online at least). Are you meaning something like a Wartecher, which was a hybrid between a Hunter and a Force?

Anyway, what Randomness said is correct. However, since we're talking about "like PSU", there will be more classes in the future (whether it is the sub-class system or a system similar to PSU's), and it is likely that there will be a class that is basically a hybrid between a Hunter and a Force (which is what I want...).

Then again, maybe you meant PSO?

[Mizumi323]

(To be fair, gunslashes on a force DO do decent damage)

I agree. In fact, the Gunslash is the weapon I use the most! :D

[Tekershee]

What tactics to kill Vol Dragon or Ragne (emergency mission boss)? What to use and what to aim? I tried some rafoie/gifoie/foie but that doesn't seem very useful so far.

[Xeno88]

Does anybody know if dark techs will be making a return..I liked megid

[Ceresa]

What tactics to kill Vol Dragon or Ragne (emergency mission boss)? What to use and what to aim? I tried some rafoie/gifoie/foie but that doesn't seem very useful so far.

For Dragon, Freeze the legs with Barta at the start. Then jump up and Barta the tail over and over until it breaks, throw cards at the tail to restore pp. Then jump and Barta his horn while he recharges the tail. Repeat. It seems like you can only do one freeze between tail breaks but not sure on the exact mechanics.

Ragne, jump and throw Foies at his head or the hive thing on his back, way easier during emergency codes with high ground in your favor. If you break a leg he collapses and you can jump on him and hit his red orb, but you probably won't have much pp and the window isn't that long. His attacks also get more hits with each leg break so it's kinda not that helpful.

[Jonth]

Does anybody know if dark techs will be making a return..I liked megid

Yes, dark techs will be returning. Also, data-mining efforts have revealed wind based techs.

[Xeno88]

Yes, dark techs will be returning. Also, data-mining efforts have revealed wind based techs.

Yeah, I was going to ask about that, because when tekking a special weapon, you have the option of adding a wind booster..should be interesting to see some new techs.

[Jonth]

Yeah, I was going to ask about that, because when tekking a special weapon, you have the option of adding a wind booster..should be interesting to see some new techs.

Yeah, I am curious as well, but they didn't find anything about specific wind techs, just the wind classification.

[Polantaris]

Resta: Creates an aura of healing around the user. This technique can heal both the user and surrounding allies. The charged version of this technique linger for approximately 3 seconds (someone please verify duration, and whether the uncharged version heals others).

Uncharged does work on others, but they have to be literally on top of you. Also, uncharged Resta is awful, it heals like 20 health.

[Omega-z]

Tekershee - Like Ceresa said, You could re-try RaFoie on the Ragne and use Lock-on to the weak or mid-section where's there no resistance. One can hurt him anywhere like when he's up the walls, mid-air .....etc but doing this does eat up PP and would advise to use the Charge PP ability.

[foreignreign]

Resta's duration increases with level.

I can heal someone 4 times with Resta level 5. Pretty sure level 3~4 only healed 3 times.

[Randomness]

Resta's duration increases with level.

I can heal someone 4 times with Resta level 5. Pretty sure level 3~4 only healed 3 times.

I've gotten 4 ticks from the lower levels. It doesn't show overheals.


With regard to boss strategy - I usually aim to land Sazonde combos on the weaker parts of the boss, at least for Ragne and bears. Haven't fought Vol yet. Sazonde and Zonde both have huge range so it's a good way to fight from a safe distance... and bears are weak to lightning to boot.

[Polantaris]

Against Ragne, if you aim RaFoie on his back mount, where it starts to go up for that back ball thing, the range is large enough and it hits his weak point (Behind the head shell). I'll try to get a HD picture of him and show what I mean.

[FenixStryk]

A friend wanted some pretty specific Talis information, so I went about testing it to see what I could find. The results:

-No discernible difference in lifespan due to longer held charge times between casts.
-No discernible difference in lifespan between well-timed JA attacks and quickly recharging between casts.
-Distance thrown does have an effect on lifespan of card:
=3 card techs possible at max range.
=4 card techs possible at medium range.
=5 card techs possible at extremely close range with perfect timing.

In addition, there was something I noticed about Force's Mirage Escape that is worth noting: if done in the air, it has a much shorter post-dash delay than a ground Mirage Escape. This doesn't seem to apply to HU/RA dashes, which are the same either way.

In short, you should be doing Just Attacks for your techs because it doesn't hurt your card's lifespan, and Forces benefit more from jumping around before they attack or dash, particularly for air Mirage Escape spam.


I made videos for all of this, but they're not properly labeled and aren't entirely necessary to get the information across. I'll provide them upon request if word is not enough.

[goombazoid]

Ok, finally got my focast enough T-ATK to equip my Rosa Crane:

[spoiler-box]
From behind
http://i.imgur.com/em0BJ.jpg
From the front
http://i.imgur.com/jYss0.jpg
throwing it
http://i.imgur.com/CODeG.jpg
the "card" that is thrown
http://i.imgur.com/3AY96.jpg[/spoiler-box]

[Polantaris]

@Goombazoid: That's awesome. It's great to see they already have some unique weapons created. Too bad I have no luck, so I doubt I'll ever see one in CBT. Plus my Force is already 20 so I dunno if I'm even going to play Force more.

Still, looks like an awesome weapon design.

[Dinosaur]

I noticed the skill tree in OP post is the alpha 2 one, so here's the beta one.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh113/subarashee/PSO2/FOtree.jpg

[goombazoid]

@Goombazoid: That's awesome. It's great to see they already have some unique weapons created. Too bad I have no luck, so I doubt I'll ever see one in CBT. Plus my Force is already 20 so I dunno if I'm even going to play Force more.

Still, looks like an awesome weapon design.

I got it off of the rockbear boss at the end of the free mode forest and so did another player I met wearing it if you did want to go looking for it. And I know what you mean, I got this character to 20 on ranger and now I'm going through as force, mostly just because I had this weapon :P

EDIT: I did have a question for anyone though, is the melee attack of the canes affected by S-ATK and similarly is the ranged attack of talis weapons affected by R-ATK? Because I have my mag levelled for when I was a ranger and I seem to do tons of damage with my talis, even before I could use Rosa Crane. It almost seems like I do more damage by weaving the very quick just attacks of talis with an uncharged spell every now and then, plus I never run out of pp thanks to talis' godly attack speed.

[Polantaris]

I got it off of the rockbear boss at the end of the free mode forest and so did another player I met wearing it if you did want to go looking for it. And I know what you mean, I got this character to 20 on ranger and now I'm going through as force, mostly just because I had this weapon :P

EDIT: I did have a question for anyone though, is the melee attack of the canes affected by S-ATK and similarly is the ranged attack of talis weapons affected by R-ATK? Because I have my mag levelled for when I was a ranger and I seem to do tons of damage with my talis, even before I could use Rosa Crane. It almost seems like I do more damage by weaving the very quick just attacks of talis with an uncharged spell every now and then, plus I never run out of pp thanks to talis' godly attack speed.

Thanks for the info. I killed the Rockbear like 10 times now and haven't gotten anything, though, so meh...I'm never lucky so I don't expect anything.

Weapons have their own values for each attack type. Go to the second tab on a weapon's information to see it.

A little tip for people, by the way: You can set the same weapon to the Palette multiple times. If you have one weapon that's really powerful (Like I have a Rod that's way better than everything else I have), you can set it to separate palette slots, and give each slot it's own TECHs. This way, you can have each slot represent an element if you so choose, or anything like that.

[Arika]

Hello there, I m planing to make a record for all PA/bullet/tech.
I have made video for PA already here ; http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194408

but now, I would like to ask if anybody can be model for shifta and gi-grant? So far, those are only 2 tech I miss.

note : my play time is around JP 8 pm til 2 am for weekend. So prefer someone who could on around those time to meet me. it only need 5 min time for record.

[Jonth]

Ok, finally got my focast enough T-ATK to equip my Rosa Crane:

[spoiler-box]
From behind
http://i.imgur.com/em0BJ.jpg
From the front
http://i.imgur.com/jYss0.jpg
throwing it
http://i.imgur.com/CODeG.jpg
the "card" that is thrown
http://i.imgur.com/3AY96.jpg[/spoiler-box]

Great goombazoid! These pictures are the first real actions shots I have put under the weapon section. Thanks!


I noticed the skill tree in OP post is the alpha 2 one, so here's the beta one.

Great find! The first page has been updated with it. Thanks a lot.

I am off for today. Thanks again everybody! I feel like the first page has a sense of completeness to it now. Please don't stop submitting info and pics however, because I definitely need more info on weapons still.

[Dragwind]

A friend wanted some pretty specific Talis information, so I went about testing it to see what I could find. The results:

-No discernible difference in lifespan due to longer held charge times between casts.
-No discernible difference in lifespan between well-timed JA attacks and quickly recharging between casts.
-Distance thrown does have an effect on lifespan of card:
=3 card techs possible at max range.
=4 card techs possible at medium range.
=5 card techs possible at extremely close range with perfect timing.

In addition, there was something I noticed about Force's Mirage Escape that is worth noting: if done in the air, it has a much shorter post-dash delay than a ground Mirage Escape. This doesn't seem to apply to HU/RA dashes, which are the same either way.

In short, you should be doing Just Attacks for your techs because it doesn't hurt your card's lifespan, and Forces benefit more from jumping around before they attack or dash, particularly for air Mirage Escape spam.


I made videos for all of this, but they're not properly labeled and aren't entirely necessary to get the information across. I'll provide them upon request if word is not enough.

I gotta say, that's pretty spot on. I spent all of today really focusing in on studying cards too, and I agree with all of that. I really want to emphasize staying in the air too. It really gives you a lot of working room for avoiding hits and dashing.

I do have one other thing of note though. Be careful with resta. It's horizontally and vertically challenged. If you cast resta in the air and a member is right next to you on the ground, it doesn't seem to heal them and vice versa. I plan on doing more testing with this.

[Stezan]

Question about Sazonde: Can other forces trigger your sazonde with their own shock techs? And for that matter, can Hunters and Rangers use any types of attacks with Shock Element which could trigger a set Sazonde? I believe I saw a Wire Lance attack that appeared to electrocute an enemy...

[Polantaris]

Question about Sazonde: Can other forces trigger your sazonde with their own shock techs? And for that matter, can Hunters and Rangers use any types of attacks with Shock Element which could trigger a set Sazonde? I believe I saw a Wire Lance attack that appeared to electrocute an enemy...

Not sure about other Forces, but weapons with the Lightning Element do not trigger it. I tried it with my own weapon, and my friend tried it with his. It didn't work.

Though I think they might have messed that up, though, because my Lightning weapon was causing Freeze with no skills on it. It's possible the attributes are just screwed up, but I never experimented to figure out what was going on. I just noticed that when testing that question with a Gunblade I had recently gotten, I was freezing enemies with it, even though it had a Lightning attribute with no skills.

I think they just screwed up the Lightning attribute which may explain why the skill doesn't activate with Lightning weapons.

[Vent]

I can help you Arika, but I think I can't catch you online today, since it will still take like 6 hours from the moment I post this that I get back home. I have the whole day off tomorrow though.

I don't really like using cards. The delay is awful and you are also standing still during the throw. Aiming with a remote card is kind of awkward too. You might try doing trick shots with it, but I'm not too sure if the time wasted throwing the thing and aiming is worth it. I am going to try it on Dark Ragne the next time I meet him though. Even if it does work, my weapon of choice as a Force at is just the classical Rod.

[Konflyk]

I believe I saw a Wire Lance attack that appeared to electrocute an enemy...

That's just one of the PAs it doesn't seem like it has elemental influence in anyway, shape, or form, however it does have a good multiplier on the dmg, it just hits 2-3 times

[Arika]

I can help you Arika, but I think I can't catch you online today, since it will still take like 6 hours from the moment I post this that I get back home. I have the whole off tomorrow though.

I don't really like using cards. The delay is awful and you are also standing still during the throw. Aiming with a remote card is kind of awkward too. You might try doing trick shots with it, but I'm not too sure if the time wasted throwing the thing and aiming is worth it. I am going to try it on Dark Ragne the next time I meet him though. Even if it does work, my weapon of choice as a Force at is just the classical Rod.

Count from your post + 6 hours => I probably still be there, but nearly sleep.

It is fine tho, it only take 5 min to record. You have gi-grant and shifta right?

[goombazoid]

Weapons have their own values for each attack type. Go to the second tab on a weapon's information to see it.

Yeah I saw that force weapons were only giving me T-ATK. I wasn't sure if T-ATK was only used to calculate tech damage, or if it was used to calculate rod and talis damage too. It seemed like my talis attacks did a lot of damage and I have a very high R-ATK due to being a cast and having a ranger mag, so I thought maybe that was causing my talis to do more damage.

[Jonth]

Yeah I saw that force weapons were only giving me T-ATK. I wasn't sure if T-ATK was only used to calculate tech damage, or if it was used to calculate rod and talis damage too. It seemed like my talis attacks did a lot of damage and I have a very high R-ATK due to being a cast and having a ranger mag, so I thought maybe that was causing my talis to do more damage.

I would personally like some more information on this as well. Is a Card's regular attack damage determined by the users R-ATK and a Rod's by S-ATK, or are they both determined by T-ATK? If it is the former, this would make for an interesting situation when the sub-classes (or hybrid classes) are released. Basically, a Force subbed with a Hunter would greatly benefit from using a Rod, while a Ranger sub would do great with a Talis. Furthermore, a Force/Hunter would probably benefit from the Tech JA skill tree improvements more while the Force/Ranger would benefit from the charge improvements more. I kind of really hope it is like this, because that sounds really cool... Please SEGA, make my dreams of a viable Battle Force a reality...

[Vent]

Talis uses R-ATK I believe, but Rod definitely uses S-ATK. Rod at least grants S-ATK and grinding it also increases its S-ATK stat.

Weapons like Gunslash uses both S-ATK and R-ATK and its PAs also use a combination of both.

[Jonth]

Talis uses R-ATK I believe, but Rod definitely uses S-ATK. Rod at least grants S-ATK and grinding it also increases its S-ATK stat.

Weapons like Gunslash uses both S-ATK and R-ATK and its PAs also use a combination of both.

Awesome Vent. I am going to hold out hope for some really cool Force setups when hybridization is released.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I would bet this is what SEGA intended all along. When they release Wands (I think that was potentially data-mined, but don't hold me to it), that will be the weapon for all out tech specialization. So you have Rods for Force/Hunter, Cards for Force/Ranger, and Wands for Force/Force (if a setup like this is allowed). Not that you wouldn't be able to use the other 2 weapons regardless of which direction you went, but the example would be your overall best weapon choice. This is my hypothesis.

[Arika]

Not sure about other Forces, but weapons with the Lightning Element do not trigger it. I tried it with my own weapon, and my friend tried it with his. It didn't work.



I think he refer to this :

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnD5ZTpbCqU&hd=1

[Omega-z]

Vent - I agree that Talis class weapon use R-ATK for there normal but for Rod's I'm not sure with it being S-ATK. For one my Rod normal Melee does more Damage then my Gunslash's Saber normal Melee and the S-ATK is higher with the Gunslash and not the Rod. Now my T-ATK is higher then my S-ATK and if you put the Damage in a ratio to your Stats then it should be close to a 5 to 1 ratio. Now it could be a combination Possibly of the two stat's since you said it helped with the Damage by having S-ATK. Need to check this out.

[Jonth]

Combination damage... That would be awesome... Talk about balancing out the hybrid classes (or making them altogether broken). If you think the Rod's damage formula could be a combination of both T-ATK and S-ATK, then I think it is also a possibility that the Talis' damage formula could be from R-ATK and T-ATK. Just assuming that if they would bother to combine 2 types of damage modifiers for one, that they would likely do it for the other. It still would explain why goombazoid is doing so much damage with cards. You should do some testing for that as well... Please?

[White]

Lets take bets on future techniques, because clearly this can NOT be the end of them. We still have yet to see Megid and Reverser, which HAVE to be in this game because no phantasy star game is complete without megid. Forces are alpha as fuck!

[Jonth]

Lets take bets on future techniques, because clearly this can NOT be the end of them. We still have yet to see Megid and Reverser, which HAVE to be in this game because no phantasy star game is complete without megid. Forces are alpha as fuck!

I have to say, it looks like they are trying really hard not to make Forces pathetic compared to all the other classes this time, and I'm pretty excited about it. Well, yeah, Megid and its derivatives will have to be in there of course, but I actually have some doubt about Reverser. Since they want to keep Scape Dolls in the cash shop, they may try to force everyone to go that route to have any sort of revival. Then again, I am stating this without realizing whether or not they have released Moon Atomizers.

What I am more curious about are the wind techs. So assuming they go the traditional route, we should be expecting Zan I believe?

[Randomness]

I have to say, it looks like they are trying really hard not to make Forces pathetic compared to all the other classes this time, and I'm pretty excited about it. Well, yeah, Megid and its derivatives will have to be in there of course, but I actually have some doubt about Reverser. Since they want to keep Scape Dolls in the cash shop, they may try to force everyone to go that route to have any sort of revival. Then again, I am stating this without realizing whether or not they have released Moon Atomizers.

What I am more curious about are the wind techs. So assuming they go the traditional route, we should be expecting Zan I believe?

Moon atomizers are in the game - you even start with three, and they're normally purchasable. I fully expect reverser.

And yeah, Zan would be the wind-type, I suppose. (I'm curious whether it's just coincidence that wind spells in SMT games are all Zan too)

It is nice to feel like a badass as a force. Sazonde is my favorite tech right now, because it can do such silly things to bears.

[White]

Zan techs? I have never heard of these, do tell.

[condiments]

I just hope there will be adequate support for making a competent melee/support force. I remember having such a blast playing my Fomar, due to its sheer flexibility and options. I wouldn't pull the crazy numbers in melee or magic, but I usually ended up being the backbone of teams by strengthening and weakening enemies/healing/Gi- techs and slicing enemies to bits with my Soul Banish. If I was feeling especially crazy, I could quickly equip a wand or go unarmed with a magic based mag and blow shit up with my techs.

I'm impressed by the amount of options forces have(sazonde seems pretty great), but the class system still seems rather rigid at this point. Its still early, and we don't know much, but I hope get the chance to relive the same role from PSO in its true sequel. :)

[Jonth]

Moon atomizers are in the game - you even start with three, and they're normally purchasable. I fully expect reverser.

That was my ignorance then. Yes, if Moon Atomizers are in, Reverser is a definite in my opinion.



I just hope there will be adequate support for making a competent melee/support force. I remember having such a blast playing my Fomar, due to its sheer flexibility and options. I wouldn't pull the crazy numbers in melee or magic, but I usually ended up being the backbone of teams by strengthening and weakening enemies/healing/Gi- techs and slicing enemies to bits with my Soul Banish. If I was feeling especially crazy, I could quickly equip a wand or go unarmed with a magic based mag and blow shit up with my techs.

I'm impressed by the amount of options forces have(sazonde seems pretty great), but the class system still seems rather rigid at this point. Its still early, and we don't know much, but I hope get the chance to relive the same role from PSO in its true sequel. :)

A competent melee/support force is what I want as well, and from what I am seeing, it seems like it will be viable. Sub in the Hunter class, and your melee with a Rod should be pretty awesome I imagine,

[Zyrusticae]

I apologize for not reading the seven pages (or 14 if you do the 10 per page) of threadnaught that currently exists for an answer to this question, but can anyone explain to me exactly how rod and talis element bonuses interact with technic damage?

[Arika]

Thank to vent for the two spells I don't have, now, the all-tech demonstration video is finished.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYrXEKYalAE&hd=1

@Jonth, I think the video will help you in the first page explanation about technique ;)

[Jonth]

I apologize for not reading the seven pages (or 14 if you do the 10 per page) of threadnaught that currently exists for an answer to this question, but can anyone explain to me exactly how rod and talis element bonuses interact with technic damage?

This is something that has not been brought up yet, and I would be curious to know myself. If someone could address this I will try to work it in on the first post.



Thank to vent for the two spells I don't have, now, the all-tech demonstration video is finished.

@Jonth, I think the video will help you in the first page explanation about technique ;)

Oh that is fantastic work, and that is going up right away! Thanks for the awesome contribution!

[Vent]

@Omega-Z
Interesting, I haven't exactly tested yet but if I remember correctly, I also do more damage with a Rod normal attack than a Gunslash normal attack, but I think my Rod has more S-ATK than my Gunslash now.

@Zyrusticae
A few people have tested the elemental affinity of weapons against monsters with normal attacks. Their conclusion now seems to be that it isn't being calculated correctly as no change in damage can be seen.

But that is with normal attacks. I don't think anyone even tested it yet with techniques. I will try doing tests for both today.

A few comments on the dalay of mirage escape. Not only is the normal delay in the air shorter than on the ground, but hitting the ground after a mirage escape cancels any remaining delay as well. Landing does weird stuff to animations anyway and it has been a huge problem to do it right in a lot of games. However, the time wasted getting into the air and doing a mirage escape might be longer than just doing it on the ground, unless you are already in the air for some other reason. Also, I believe that you are invincible as well during that little delay, so if you cancel that, you basically reduce your invincibility time.

[Menochi]

You can dodge immediately after jumping, causing no noticeable delay in timing and cancel the ending animation if the ground is the slightest bit uneven. Best done with the actual dodge key over tapping a direction twice.

[Angelo]

Just to clarify, do Shifta and Deband raise all Striking, Ranged, and Tech stats?

[Crevox]

Where's jellen?

[Vent]

Yes, Shifta, Deband and probably Jellen and Zalure too affect all corresponding offense or defensive stats.

I have no idea where you can get Jellen. I have checked all quest records and it didn't seem to drop in any mission. Except the emergency mission, I haven't gotten many chances to play that one. If that one pops up again I'll check its record and see if it drops there.

Till then, Jellen remains to be a myth to me.

EDIT:
I have been playing around with the Force skill trees for a lack of better thing to do. Here are my conclusions and opinions if the tree and skills stay what they are which I highly doubt.

Magic Up I:
Completely worthless. It's +50 TP at level 10. It might still be quite some at low character levels, but remember this stat is static and does not scale at high levels, which stats in percentages do.

Charge Tech Build (Left Tree):
Seems the best way to go at the moment. The two charge attack up skills are in percentages, but are only 110% at level 10, which is probably still not worth leveling past the minimum requirement for the next skill. Photon Flare is interesting as a buff, with +200 TP (probably) at level 10. It is certainly one of the more significant skills, but it has pretty long cooldown. Of course the skill you really want to get in this tree is the Charge PP Revival, which allows you to regenerate PP while charging, which generates a lot of PP. It also turns the Ketos Proi Photon Blast from nearly useless to decent.

Elemental Tree (Middle):
Well you can divide this tree in three parts of course. You still need to get the first Charge Tech Up, but the worst thing you will need to get is the Magic Def Up, which gives you +10 M-DFP at level 3. Worthless. Then the good stuff come. The first level of every elemental boost skill instantly gives you +5% damage for that element, which is quite significant. But all levels after it give you 1%, which is better spent on Charge Tech Up I.

Fire tree might be interesting for the burn effect boost (+1% burn chance/level). I don't think the charge time decrease for fire spells is worth it. You do get a -10% charge time at level 1, but all levels after that only give you a -3% decrease for a total of -38% decrease at level 10. It might be handy, but not handy enough considering what you get from the lightning tree.

The ice tree is the worst in my opinion. Freeze Ignition is an active that damages all frozen enemies nearby with a 60% cooldown. However the daamge is very, very bad and so is the range. You can't level this skill past level 1 however, so I don't know its damage growth. Really not worth spending points into. If you want this tree you will probably do it for the freezing effect and going utility as a Force.

The Lighning tree is pretty crazy in my opinion. The Volt PP Save skill decreases your lightning techniques with 1 PP for every level. Now lightning techniques are pretty expensive PP wise and this one completely solves that problem at the expense of 10 skill points. If they decide to decrease the PP costs of lightning techs somewhat (it's too high at the moment in my opinion), then you can more or less spam charged lightning techs ad infinitum if you have Charge PP Revival too.

Final note for elemental tree. Specializing in one element is really risky. The damage difference between hitting the enemy with their weakness or not might not be too significant now, but it will probably be a whole different story at higher levels. Think Ultimate difficulty in PSO; hitting with the wrong element does 0 damage and near 0 damage with semi-wrong element.

Random Build (Right tree):
This build gives you some increase in damage for normal techs (+1%/level), some PP (+1 Max PP/level), Magic Up II (+50 TP at level 10 again) and more damage from tech just attacks (+1%/level). Just look at these numbers and you will notice this is by far the worst build you can get. The just attack boost is at the end of the tree and is basically worthless. Yes, it does boost both charged and non charged tech damage, but when was the last time you were using normal techs? Those PP ups can give you +20 PP at the cost of 20 skill points. With an extra 20 PP you can cast one more Foie with a maxed pool. Great?...

[Omega-z]

Vent - yeah my Gunslash is at 157 melee + 4 grind up. I use two Rod's both same a normal one and one that has a little boost to both melee and tech and has + 2 to grind, the normal one is at 127 melee and the little boosted one is at 137 melee. And the Damage seem's to be the same with both Rod's too, IF anything a few points in difference. Now one thing I notice is that Ability seem's to boost that Crit rate for my Gunslash's Gun mode a lot 45 for normal hit but a huge jump of a 130 for a Crit at a good rate of 60 - 70% of the time if your Ability rate is higher then the monster's.

[foreignreign]

Magic Up I:
Completely worthless. It's +50 TP at level. It might still be quite some at low levels, but remember this stat is static and does not scale at high levels, which stats in percentages do.

T-ATK is the only way to increase Resta's power. There also aren't any trees for Light/Dark/Wind techs, so if we get those and you want to focus on said tech types, there's no point in going for one of the three primary element trees, which should give you enough free skill points to max all the +T-ATK skills (as well as the generic casting ones like Tech Charge Up).

[FenixStryk]

Seems the best way to go at the moment. The two charge attack up skills are in percentages, but are only 110% at level 10, which is probably still not worth leveling past the minimum requirement for the next skill. Photon Flare is interesting as a buff, with +200 TP (probably) at level 10. It is certainly one of the more significant skills, but it has pretty long cooldown. Of course the skill you really want to get in this tree is the Charge PP Revival, which allows you to regenerate PP while charging, which generates a lot of PP. It also turns the Ketos Proi Photon Blast from nearly useless to decent.

The Lighning tree is pretty crazy in my opinion. The Volt PP Save skill decreases your lightning techniques with 1 PP for every level. Now lightning techniques are pretty expensive PP wise and this one completely solves that problem at the expense of 10 skill points. If they decide to decrease the PP costs of lightning techs somewhat (it's too high at the moment in my opinion), then you can more or less spam charged lightning techs ad infinitum if you have Charge PP Revival too.Going to be blunt: I'm really fiending for a Lv.40+ cap right now so I can go for a PP Revival + Bolt Tech PP Save build. By Level 38, those two abilities will decrease the net PP cost of all charged Zonde techniques to 8~10 PP. Sazonde/Gizonde spam is going to be brutally efficient. I can't wait...!

[Dinosaur]

Yes, Shifta, Deband and probably Jellen and Zalure too affect all corresponding offense or defensive stats.

I have no idea where you can get Jellen. I have checked all quest records and it didn't seem to drop in any mission. Except the emergency mission, I haven't gotten many chances to play that one. If that one pops up again I'll check its record and see if it drops there.

Till then, Jellen remains to be a myth to me.

Jellen or Zalure do not exist as spells in this test.


Magic Up I:
Completely worthless. It's +50 TP at level. It might still be quite some at low levels, but remember this stat is static and does not scale at high levels, which stats in percentages do.

Have to disagree. It's one of the best skills to maximize overall output. There's no reason to not want a permanent t-atk boost.

[Vent]

T-ATK is the only way to increase Resta's power.

Good point. It might also be interesting to know if the buff and debuff techs scale on T-ATK. If so, then it might be indeed worth adding points into it.

EDIT: Tested it. Shifta doesn't seem to be stronger when you have higher T-ATK.


Going to be blunt: I'm really fiending for a Lv.40+ cap right now so I can go for a PP Revival + Bolt Tech PP Save build.

All lightning techs cost more than 25 PP at the moment. So even with PP Save level 10 you're going to have 15 PP cost on Zonde, which is less than any other tech but just not low enough to keep casting the thing.

@Dinosaur
You made me realize a very, very bad typo.

[Omega-z]

I'm done Testing the Normal attack for Gunslash, Rod's and Card's. I hope I keep it all straight lol. was done with Lv.1 foe's for accuracy.

O.k. first of all it's a 10 to 1 ratio and the reason why you add +30 to something it doesn't real add much to your ATK. Now every stat except HP & PP goes by this 10/1 rate with Ability with the only bonuses if meet it's requirement. All added points have to be 10 to make it a Damage point so 9 won't make it needs to be a full +10.

Gunslash - Melee/Blade attack - It's the full added power of the S-ATK and the Base R-ATK + any extra % for grinding, % with element or MAG stats. It has a Variance of 12 Damage.

Gunslash - Ranged/Gun attack - It's only the Full R-ATK, but this is the kicker it can have the Ability stat added this also counts your MAG too. But here's the catch you have to have the Ability stat higher then your foe to actually to have it added. Now when it's added in you have bonuses of having your Critical Attack Rate increased and the possibility of having the damage you take form a foe reduced to 1 + any extra % for grinding, % with element or MAG stats. It has a Variance of 0~2* Damage. (*doesn't happen to often )

Talis - Ranged/Card throw attack - It's the Base R-ATK and Half of your total T-ATK + Grinding which will go off the Base R-ATK and the full T-ATK of the weapon then % with element or MAG stats you have also Photon Flare also works with this. Variance of 2 Damage.

Talis - Technic/Base attack - It's the total T-ATK + the Ability also MAG. ( bonuses after the requirement is met ) Then any grinding, % with element or MAG stats. also Photon Flare also works with this. Variance of 4 Damage.

Rod - Melee/Rod attack - It's the total S-ATK and total T-ATK + any grinding, % with element or MAG stats. Variance of 4 Damage.

Rod - Technic/Base attack - It's the total T-ATK + the Ability also MAG. ( bonuses after the requirement is met ) Then any grinding, % with element or MAG stats. also Photon Flare also works with this. Variance of 4 Damage.

I hope this help's and having any thought's on it would be great.:) :rappy:

[Jonth]

I'm done Testing the Normal attack for Gunslash, Rod's and Card's. I hope I keep it all straight lol. was done with Lv.1 foe's for accuracy.

O.k. first of all it's a 10 to 1 ratio and the reason why you add +30 to something it doesn't real add much to your ATK. Now every stat except HP & PP goes by this 10/1 rate with Ability with the only bonuses if meet it's requirement. All added points have to be 10 to make it a Damage point so 9 won't make it needs to be a full +10.

Gunslash - Melee/Blade attack - It's the full added power of the S-ATK and the Base R-ATK + any extra % for grinding or % with element. It has a Variance of 12 Damage.

Gunslash - Ranged/Gun attack - It's only the Full R-ATK, but this is the kicker it can have the Ability stat added this also counts your MAG too. But here's the catch you have to have the Ability stat higher then your foe to actually to have it added. Now when it's added in you have bonuses of having your Critical Attack Rate increased and the possibility of having the damage you take form a foe reduced to 1 + any extra % for grinding or % with element. It has a Variance of 0~2* Damage. (*doesn't happen to often )

Talis - Ranged/Card throw attack - It's the Base R-ATK and Half of your total T-ATK + Grinding which will go off the Base R-ATK and the full T-ATK of the weapon then any element % you have also Photon Flare also work with this. Variance of 2 Damage.

Talis - Technic/Base attack - It's the total T-ATK + the Ability also MAG. ( bonuses after the requirement is met ) Then any grinding and element % also Photon Flare also work with this. Variance of 4 Damage.

Rod - Melee/Rod attack - It's the total S-ATK and total T-ATK + any grinding and element %. Variance of 4 Damage.

Rod - Technic/Base attack - It's the total T-ATK + the Ability also MAG. ( bonuses after the requirement is met ) Then any grinding and element % also Photon Flare also work with this. Variance of 4 Damage.

I hope this help's and having any thought's on it would be great.:) :rappy:

You don't know how excited I am to here this... You sir, are awesome. This should completely change the way hybrid classes are viewed. Now that they have weapons that have damage formulas dependent on 2 stats, you are actually better off using a hybrid class that focuses on the 2 stats that correspond to your weapon of choice, instead of the specialist class that focuses on only one of those stats (say you want to mainly use a Rod, think of this example: Force/Hunter 85 T-ATK + 75 S-ATK compared to a Force/Force 100 T-ATK + 25 S-ATK).

Don't get me wrong, specialist classes will be just as important, especially for the weapons that only have one damage modifier stat. The main thing is, SEGA has found an incredibly creative way to equal the playing field between Hybrid classes and Specialist classes (assuming all other aspects are balanced in the game). This is something that was ALWAYS lacking in PSU.

And thank you for explaining what the ability stat does! That should also open up a lot of interesting class/weapon/mag/skill tree combinations.

[Omega-z]

Jonth - MAG's work the same way too with their Feeding for the most part.

Dinosaur - the question is does it scale? because if it doesn't then it's not good and Vent is right since it add's 5 damage for Normal base, But it it does then it's great because in this game 5 can become 250.

[Jonth]

Jonth - MAG's work the same way too with their Feeding for the most part.

One thing I am a little confused about, you only included your MAG into the equation when ability was a factor in the damage formula. I am under the impression that MAGs can be raised to increase any stat you want, not just ability, so they should also help your damage when ability isn't a factor (assuming you have raised the corresponding stat on the MAG). Perhaps there is something else in your methods that I'm not getting?

[Omega-z]

Yeah I realized that too, But figured that it was pretty apparent that the other attacking stat's will help with the Dmg you do base on the way it is. sorry for not adding it in. ( I made the correction in the Guide Post thank you Jonth for the catch.)

Oh Vent - Photon Flare boost Shifta

0.0 ah Post 666 I'm doomed lol.:):rappy:

[Jonth]

No problem Omega, glad to help even if it is in minor ways. I have updated the first post with the corrected information.

[Vent]

Really nice information Omega-z, it puts a whole new light on hybrid builds. I still don't exactly know what the Ability stat is however. At the moment it looks like some kind of uber stat that is used in many ways.

Does Photon Flare really boost Shifta? I tried it too with Photon Flare and was whacking rappies with a Rod. I didn't see any change in damage with with Photon Flare boosted Shifta and non-boosted Shifta.

[djizomdjinn]

About the bashing on uncharged tech skills and how they're a waste of SP:

Isn't uncharged for doing combos with techs; i.e. whack - whack - foie - whack - foie - foie?

Is it that much more powerful to spam charged techs?

[Jonth]

Yes.

So what is the damage difference between a charged tech and a just attack tech? I would have hoped that they would have made JA techs about 70-80% as powerful as a charged tech. This would make up for the fact that you can Just Attack combo techs/regular hits faster than you can charge spam techs.

Congratulations on that accomplishment by the way. I think I heard someone say that Ragne's Soul adds 30 TP and 20 HP (maybe I'm wrong)? So you should have a ton of TP now right?

[Ceresa]

So what is the damage difference between a charged tech and a just attack tech? I would have hoped that they would have made JA techs about 70-80% as powerful as a charged tech. This would make up for the fact that you can Just Attack combo techs/regular hits faster than you can charge spam techs.


You can JA charged techs too.

[goombazoid]

About the bashing on uncharged tech skills and how they're a waste of SP:

Isn't uncharged for doing combos with techs; i.e. whack - whack - foie - whack - foie - foie?

Is it that much more powerful to spam charged techs?

Yeah, I plan to play force as a high R-ATK talis user that just combos techs in with my quick ranged combo, so theres no point in going to the charge skills, I'm going to get all the uncharged and just attack skills.

[Jonth]

You can JA charged techs too.

Wait huh? How the heck? The JA time frame window is big enough to allow you to charge before it is over? How long does it take to charge techs exactly?

For that matter, is it possible to melee and then follow up with a charged JA tech?

[Ceresa]

Wait huh? How the heck? The JA time frame window is big enough to allow you to charge before it is over? How long does it take to charge techs exactly?

For that matter, is it possible to melee and then follow up with a charged JA tech?

The JA frame window doesn't start until after an attack actually ends, and once you hit/hold the button with the right timing, it's good until you release. Maybe 2 seconds charge?

I don't know about rod melee > tech, but I assume it's possible as card > charged tech works.

[Milla]

Sorry didn't read through the whole thread but just a quick question, Does FO play more similar to PSO or PSU? Btw awesome thread really looking forward to playing as a FO! ^^

[FenixStryk]

Wait huh? How the heck? The JA time frame window is big enough to allow you to charge before it is over? How long does it take to charge techs exactly?

For that matter, is it possible to melee and then follow up with a charged JA tech?You can JA anything into anything: Saber into Gibarta, Card into Rafoie, Razonde into Rod... the JA red ring pops up after every attack you do, and (if you master the timing) the attack speed is identical to mashing your mouse keys. There's no reason not to JA, and there's no reason not to Charge JA your techs.

[Jonth]

Awesome. As long as I can combo charged techs with my melee, I'm cool with it.

[Atyl]

Not charging your techs as a FO is a massive damage reduction. Even more than missing the JA. With Barta lvl 5 on a level 1 monkey (average of 10 shots) as 0SP (PP charge build, JA Build, Freeze Ignition build) with 730 T-Atk, 280 ABL:
Normal: 108 (110, 113, 121)
JA: 140 (140, 162, 157)
Charge: 329 (365, 330, 378 )
JA Charge: 430 (475, 475, 484)

The reason you go for the left tree is PP charge, that's it.
For JA Charge: the damage range over 30 hits was 426-441 (468-483, 466-484, 473-495)

Edit: Freeze Ignition build was off, tried it for 50 (100 JA Charge) hits. Added no point damage as average of 10 hits.

[Jonth]

Thanks for giving me a mathematical representation Atyl. Once I see the math, it makes more sense to me. I definitely see the need to charge, but it is awesome that you can JA your charges.

[djizomdjinn]

Not charging your techs as a FO is a massive damage reduction. Even more than missing the JA. With Barta lvl 5 on a level 1 monkey (average of 10 shots) as 0SP (PP charge build, JA Build, Freeze Ignition build) with 730 T-Atk, 280 ABL:
Normal: 108 (110, 113, 121)
JA: 140 (140, 162, 157)
Charge: 329 (365, 330, 378 )
JA Charge: 430 (475, 475, 484)

The reason you go for the left tree is PP charge, that's it.
For JA Charge: the damage range over 30 hits was (468-483, 466-484, 473-495)

Edit: Freeze Ignition build was off, tried it for 50 (100 JA Charge) hits. Added no point damage as average of 10 hits.

Well yes, of course charge is going to give you more damage over same number of hits.

What I'm thinking is that DPS-wise, normal attacks + techs may actually match charge damage. Raw damage is only one half of the DPS equation.

[Atyl]

Well yes, of course charge is going to give you more damage over same number of hits.

What I'm thinking is that DPS-wise, normal attacks + techs may actually match charge damage. Raw damage is only one half of the DPS equation.

Even in a Non PP charge build the single target damage might be similar at best when you aren't hitting elemental weaknesses or weak points. In a PP charge build there is absolutely no comparison. It only gets worse when you factor in how much charge improves AoE Radius / Duration of DoT spells.

Edit: Crude times* based on a quick fraps video with perfect 1F JA.
Staff: .6s, .6s, .5s, .7s
Talis: .5s, .6s, .6s, .8s
Gunblade shot: .9s, .3s, .3s, .7s
Uncharged Barta: .6s
Charged Barta: 1.9s (should be 1.8s with 1F charge?) +8pp during charge.

* = needs a higher framerate video to test for sure. Could be up to -.033s off.
Edit: not for dps calcs or any of that sort. Someone on my team pointed this all out because people were firing off things like "Talis is twice as fast as staff" or Charged Techs take 5x as long, PA charge does nothing, etc.

[Zyrusticae]

So how elemental bonuses interact with technique damage is still a mystery?

I'm trying to figure out if it boosts the damage of whatever element the weapon has a bonus for, or if it makes any tech used from that weapon do bonus damage against enemies weak against it, or what.

[Vent]

Yeah, I don't have a high elemental weapon myself, so I can't really test it myself.

It is more of a mystery if things are currently implemented as they are intended. For example, my friend notified me that he healed more with his Gunslash than a random Rod with Resta. It turns out that Resta doesn't scale on your weapon's T-ATK. The Gunslash he used gave him 40 T-ATK with abilities (Ragne Soul + Technique I), which Resta used to increase its effect, thus healing more than having a Rod without such modifiers. Ridiculous? Probably, but the question is if this is a bug or a design decision.

I fear for the rest of the support techs as well. I am still not sure if Shifta/Deband scale on T-ATK at all; Omega-z says it does, but my tests show it doesn't.

[goombazoid]

Not charging your techs as a FO is a massive damage reduction. Even more than missing the JA. With Barta lvl 5 on a level 1 monkey (average of 10 shots) as 0SP (PP charge build, JA Build, Freeze Ignition build) with 730 T-Atk, 280 ABL:
Normal: 108 (110, 113, 121)
JA: 140 (140, 162, 157)
Charge: 329 (365, 330, 378 )
JA Charge: 430 (475, 475, 484)

The reason you go for the left tree is PP charge, that's it.
For JA Charge: the damage range over 30 hits was 426-441 (468-483, 466-484, 473-495)

Edit: Freeze Ignition build was off, tried it for 50 (100 JA Charge) hits. Added no point damage as average of 10 hits.

But what about if I am a focast with a focus on R-ATK as well as T-ATK. The talis has incredibly quick JAs and stopping my combo to charge an attack (Even if it is JA charged) seemed to be about equal in dps. But I didn't have a lot of talents, I wasn't max level forced when I tried this...

[Eggobandit]

Anyone know how Freeze ignition works

I used it on a few lv 5 wolves but it does trivial damage at best. Like, regular attack damage, and then goes into cooldown for like a full minute :V

[Atyl]

But what about if I am a focast with a focus on R-ATK as well as T-ATK. The talis has incredibly quick JAs and stopping my combo to charge an attack (Even if it is JA charged) seemed to be about equal in dps. But I didn't have a lot of talents, I wasn't max level forced when I tried this...

You might be able to match it if you aim manually and hit every shot on weak points. The lock-on and auto-aim for cards is extremely bad.

The damage seems similar when you compare it on normal mobs, but when you compare it to bosses with weak points: I've never hit for over 250 with a 40% card, but I've hit at 1931 with techs according to the in game records.

The JAs for Talis are not that quick, they just feel quick. You are immobile for quite a bit if you just drop combo. The range bonus of a Cast is only +2% over a Newman so race is not a factor there.

[Vent]

The only use I see for Talis at the moment are casting Razonde and using its ranged normal attack to regenerate PP at a save distance. However, such tactics are kind of boring in my opinion as it is kind of a low action strategy; you are mostly stationary as with using a launcher. I felt that I quickly became more daring against bosses and just started whacking them with a rod when I needed PP. No idea if I still dare to do that on higher difficulties as differences in defense for each class become more and more apparent. :D

[Omega-z]

Vent - I mean't Shifta and Deband increase with Photon Flare added, But with normal T-ATK added it doesn't that I know of. The increase from those Tech's to start being good will be from the Disc Lv. like PSO days and the Damage you do. Oh, On the Melee of the Rod it does "Not" have the bonus from Photon Flare (which I mentioned in the other Post since it's not listed in that part) only Talis's Ranged does. Otherwise use your Tech's it adds about 6+ more Damage based on your Tech (using Shifta with it), since Photon Flare is Tech only except for Talis Range to give it a Niche.

Talis - Has some very cool Game play idea's. Better Area attacking, like around object's, Faster Melee for faster Foe's, Scaling with Photon Flare with it's Melee (even tho it does it's tech too it's not better then a Rod), The added R-ATK power for Melee. Attacking certain Mob's at a safer distance, Better use out of certain Tech's and Faster in some cases, The use of Mirage Escape with it, And safer to gain PP with out having to switch to use Tech's.

Now Talis is not going to out perform Rod's since it will Half automatically it's T-ATK. But it's Melee can be Stronger then the Melee of the Rod and the Ranged attack of the Gunslash over time. And add in some Killer Effect's to it and it can be Faster in killing certain boss then use a Rod and safer too ( don't have to wait for a charge and waste PP if you get low and need it for HP, and you get more use out of Photon Flare more often).

[goombazoid]

You might be able to match it if you aim manually and hit every shot on weak points. The lock-on and auto-aim for cards is extremely bad.

The damage seems similar when you compare it on normal mobs, but when you compare it to bosses with weak points: I've never hit for over 250 with a 40% card, but I've hit at 1931 with techs according to the in game records.

The JAs for Talis are not that quick, they just feel quick. You are immobile for quite a bit if you just drop combo. The range bonus of a Cast is only +2% over a Newman so race is not a factor there.

Those are good points, I guess I didn't fight many bosses as a force so it didn't occur to me that I'd be doing way more damage with charge attacks. Thanks for the info, I haven't played with forces enough, just trying to theory craft.

[Griffin]

Being able to ice a gargantuan, flaming dragon into the ground is damn sure enough merit being a FO.

[Atyl]

Those are good points, I guess I didn't fight many bosses as a force so it didn't occur to me that I'd be doing way more damage with charge attacks. Thanks for the info, I haven't played with forces enough, just trying to theory craft.

It's PP charge that messes up the balance. It gives you 7-8 PP back while charging if you take the spell to full. You can cast 8 JA Charged 20 PP techs in a row with it.

[Omega-z]

Talis's can out dps Rod's only when you have the right foe's tho. There is one boss that Talis can out dps Charge tech's on and Rod's aren't very good to fight with that boss since Rod's are to slow for it and doesn't need the PP (unless you want too). I've done 1400-1600 per 1-2 sec with Talis if you know how and if you count other factor's in also. But yes in most area's Rod's your main dps'ing weapon but not all the time, There time's my Gunslash was better too. Just depend's on what you did.

[megamegabuster]

So lemme get this straight since I don't keep up with this game's news, Sazonde is a type of stick grenade? And this question was asked on page 3 by someone else that nobody answered, is there any news about earth or dark techniques?

[Jonth]

So lemme get this straight since I don't keep up with this game's news, Sazonde is a type of stick grenade? And this question was asked on page 3 by someone else that nobody answered, is there any news about earth or dark techniques?

As far as Sazonde, if by stick grenade, you mean it sticks to the target until set off by another damaging lightning move, then yes.

As far as we can gather, there will not be any earth type techs. They have been replaced with Wind type techs. No information other than that on the Wind type techs. Dark techs will also make a reappearance.

[Eggobandit]

Elemental Tree (Middle):
Well you can divide this tree in three parts of course. You still need to get the first Charge Tech Up, but the worst thing you will need to get is the Magic Def Up, which gives you +10 M-DFP at level 3. Worthless. Then the good stuff come. The first level of every elemental boost skill instantly gives you +5% damage for that element, which is quite significant. But all levels after it give you 1%, which is better spent on Charge Tech Up I.



Actually, at level 10, your bonus on the elemental masteries is 120%. They kind of flucutate, but the bonus increases around lv5. So instead of a maxed mastery being +14% damage it's actually +20%.

[kdrakari]

So lemme get this straight since I don't keep up with this game's news, Sazonde is a type of stick grenade? And this question was asked on page 3 by someone else that nobody answered, is there any news about earth or dark techniques?

Sazonde is more like C4, it sticks to something and then you set it off remotely.


As for the other techniques, no official news but I personally think that wind and dark will get some. Wind is the most borderline since I don't think it was in PSO at all, but it would ruin the force's versatility if they can't use every element.

Also, thinking about some things led me to a certain "conclusion"... though it's really just a vague idea and not really important. All the elements seem to have one support technique (shifta, deband, sazonde, resta), with the exception of Anti which is currently in the light section. Now what I was thinking was, maybe Anti is actually a "wind" technique insofar as categorization goes, and then Reverser will be the Dark support spell.

Or maybe that's all random BS and I just am too bored to not share everything that pops into my head.

EDIT: Yeah, random BS. I've found much better information indicating that the current grouping for anti is right: It is the same color as the other light techniques. Still convinced that wind and dark will be in the final game though.

[Jonth]

Since this is the Force thread these are going here. Here are all of the boss videos I have so far, just need lvl 20 Ragne, hopefull get emergency quest later tonight.



Rawkhawk
PSO2? ??????? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afkc2WAHBRE&feature=channel&list=UL)

Babby
PSO2? ?????? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCPygGD8xvo&feature=channel&list=UL)

Vol DragkingPSO2? ???????? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tia074Tqpmc&feature=channel&list=UL)[/spoiler-box]

Yeah, Vol Dragon took a while.

Anyway, Card vs Staff should be non-issue, Card is more useful for bosses with hard to reach weaknesses (Vol and Ragne), and Staffs are more useful for those that you can just jump/walk around while charging and hit (Rockhawk and Babby). Staff's are generally more useful when fighting fodder mobs in the area. That's it.

[spoiler]PS: Need to get PC fixed before the next beta, I'm never using this laptop again.

Awesome videos. Pretty cool seeing a force single-handedly owning those bosses.

[foreignreign]

Since this is the Force thread these are going here. Here are all of the boss videos I have so far, just need lvl 20 Ragne, hopefull get emergency quest later tonight.



Rawkhawk
PSO2? ??????? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afkc2WAHBRE&feature=channel&list=UL)

Babby
PSO2? ?????? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCPygGD8xvo&feature=channel&list=UL)

Vol DragkingPSO2? ???????? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tia074Tqpmc&feature=channel&list=UL)[/spoiler-box]

Yeah, Vol Dragon took a while.

Anyway, Card vs Staff should be non-issue, Card is more useful for bosses with hard to reach weaknesses (Vol and Ragne), and Staffs are more useful for those that you can just jump/walk around while charging and hit (Rockhawk and Babby). Staff's are generally more useful when fighting fodder mobs in the area. That's it.

[spoiler]PS: Need to get PC fixed before the next beta, I'm never using this laptop again.

Wait what, how is Ragne's weakspot hard to hit with a Rod?

As long as you knock him down once and then jump on his back for a lock-on, then your job is ultimately done until the boss is dead.

Just switch to Rod, keep the lock-on (which is easy to do unless you're fighting him in the Emergency quest) and spam Rafoie. Ragne's close-range attacks all suck anyway (and he'll try to reposition himself constantly to try and hit you as long as you're not in his face) so you can easily afford to just stand anywhere within Rafoie range and spam attacks on his weakpoint.

Same deal for Vol Dragon really, since, from what I remember, he doesn't have a weakness or tech resistance, so Barta and Foie damages are about the same. I don't even bother with cards on Vol Dragon either (unless I'm healing) since I want the higher T-ATK to break off the back horn faster.

[Eggobandit]

Forces are boss destroyers on this game. There's multiple strategies for all of them.

Hunters are usually forced to weaken an enemy before they expose their weakpoint, and Rangers usually need to either get a good chance to aim or help the hunter open them up as well. Forces constantly have tools to bypass weakpoints through the nature of their remote-targeting spells (Ra) and Talis (Ra and Gi, and even basic if you're awesome, but i doubt it)



Ragne is extremely easy on Force. just either manually aim for the back, or jump up on its side and autoaim will smack his weakpoint automatically. The biggest thing to worry about is PP usage and, if you're fighting him in his Arena, his ability to retreat/gain a field of distance and use his projectiles.

Vol Dragon is somewhat the same, Talis + Gi/Ra spells should keep you out of range AND hit the weakpoint if your detonation placement is correct.


Rockbear is self explanatory. You dont even have to spam weakpoints (even though his isn't really that hard at all even for Rangers) because he's susceptible to burn lol.





It's really just Forces ability to deal damage from safe distances. Any boss that can quickly close distance between a force would shut it down pretty fast though.

[Dinosaur]

Forces are boss destroyers on this game. There's multiple strategies for all of them.

Extremely disagree. Ranger takes all of the cakes with Weakening Bullet and Jellen Shot. The utility behind these skills make boss fights infinitely easier for a Ranger's team.

[Eggobandit]

Well that doesn't not make them boss destroyers. That just means there's two of them.


Weak shot makes life easy for rangers, but it would only make it that much quicker if a force was there.


Doesn't matter weakshot is probably getting nerfed like hell eventually, or maybe instead given a really small window of effectiveness. In a multiparty area with any number of rangers with debuff ammo, it takes less than 2 minutes to drop pretty much any boss.

[Dinosaur]

Weak shot makes life easy for rangers, but it would only make it that much quicker if a force was there.

This is where you misunderstand the direction of my post.


The utility behind these skills make boss fights infinitely easier for a Ranger's team.

Team is the key word.

And of course bosses are gonna go down fast in a multi-party area, Forces or not. But if you wanna talk about that, I had multi-party with 6+ Rangers that took down two Ragnes(one rare, the other not rare) in one minute.

[Eggobandit]

No....i really don't understand the direction of your posts, now that you ask...


I thought we were talking about forces. Where did weakshot, jellen shot and rangers come from...?



Im not about to debate over who drops bosses faster...I simply stated that forces can easily drop bosses thanks to their tools. This really has nothing to do with whether or not a Ranger (or Hunter) is present, since the job would immediately be even easier anyway.



Hunters whack at body parts to disable the creature. Rangers manually aim for weakpoints, or weaken the enemy to increase party effectiveness. Forces can manually aim for weakpoints although this is much easier, because they can detonate spells in places that are guaranteed to do critical damage regardless of whether or not the weakpoint has been exposed yet.

[Dinosaur]

You're talking about Forces being boss killers when Ranger has that title.

[Eggobandit]

You just want to start an argument, dont you.


It's whatever, honestly. Forces can attack weakpoints indefinitely, Rangers can temporarly create their own. Both of them can function just fine without the other, and each class is equally as lucky to have the other on the team with them. I seriously do not understand what you're getting at.

[Dinosaur]

I'm not starting an argument, I'm correcting you.

[Omega-z]

IT's Beta bosses are weaker by default. I think all the classes are Great Boss Killer's if they use the appropriate Know How to fight the boss/es. There are many different way's to fight in this game. Be happy that other's have the skill's to own the boss in there own way. No class is better then the other, all can kill bosses. The Quickest I've killed a boss was in 1:47 sec's just using my Talis but that doesn't matter as long as I kill it. And I'm sure Ranger's can do better in speed with their shot's but that doesn't make them King of the hill with just a couple of abilities alone. I find this game gets a little dull when everything is PSU Zerg rushed even bosses. They need to Super buff the minion and Bosses in multi - party group's based on there player amount, and area in multi-area's.


Ragne - Is a joke, Rafoie in the Arena Dome For sure using Lock-on to the weak spot. The key is to stay close not far form him and use Mirage Escape when needed, that way you can have as mush PP as you want. This even work's when he has his little buddy's come out to play too. There just PP food (yumyum) and you can hit them and the boss at the same time.

But Shakuri is right that it won't work as well like in the forest or Cave. Still can but it's harder because of the terrain. And may have to change based on the situation.

[Omega-z]

Shakuri - is that a little to the fact it's lower in Lv. too? Oh actually I never lose Lock-on with him climbing the wall's I just blast him when he does and get close so the lock-on isn't broken and Mirage underneath him before he set's him self to shoot stuff at you and then you can blast or whack away.

[Eggobandit]

I'm not starting an argument, I'm correcting you.

lol psow



How about this. I'll do a video once i get ranger to 20 and upgrade some crap. If the total time difference is greater than, oh say 1:30 minutes then i'll admit you are correct. Better yet i'll say 60 seconds.


although it doesn't matter anyway, because like i said, both force and ranger have their supercheese methods of destroying each boss, so any time recorded would be short as hell and thus any difference trivial at best. You trying to "correct" me is just going out of your way for redundancy, im still kind of baffled.




Nah, Ragne is easier in Forest/Caves because he cant break your lock with that stupid wall climbing thing. In Forest/Caves you can kill him pretty much four times quicker than you can in emergency quest.

Yeah in the arena he doesnt seem to jump any more frequently, but he'll always get a huge gap. And his wall climbing will either put him completely out of danger or try to net him ontop of someone, either way it puts him out of range. Trying to use Sword Gear on Ragne is seriously a chore.

If you're close enuff you can still rafoie him though, and if you're using Talis, it increases the range even more so you should be able to hit him no matter how high he travels. Aiming might be a bit difficult though because he's moving lol

[Dinosaur]

It's just a fact: Weakening Bullet lets your whole team deal double damage to a boss. It is the ultimate boss killing skill.

[FenixStryk]

Gizonde and Weakening Shot set the entire beta free. Sure, every class can solo current content, but Forces have it easiest on creeps and Rangers have it easiest on bosses.

Furthering this point: Launcher damage is only slightly behind Force damage; with Weakening Shot and Forces missing Jellen/Zalure, RAs do have the edge for solo bossing. That said, it's not like either class has it hard; they're both better than HU for sweeping trash and bossing.

Not that any of this is related specifically to Forces...

[Eggobandit]

Not that any of this is related specifically to Forces...


which is really my main point here, i never stated they were the best at killing bosses, i simply said they did it very very well.

honestly don't know where weakshot, jellenshot or rangers even came from. But this is PSOW, so...just can't avoid that itch to bend arguments into offtopic stuff that has nothing to do with anything

[Randomness]

Gizonde and Weakening Shot set the entire beta free. Sure, every class can solo current content, but Forces have it easiest on creeps and Rangers have it easiest on bosses.

Furthering this point: Launcher damage is only slightly behind Force damage; with Weakening Shot and Forces missing Jellen/Zalure, RAs do have the edge for solo bossing. That said, it's not like either class has it hard; they're both better than HU for sweeping trash and bossing.

Not that any of this is related specifically to Forces...

Weak Shot certainly lets RAs kill faster solo. Jellen Shot is the key - it lets them take beatings and live. Sort of like how Resta lets FOs shrug off all the damage they've taken given any breathing room at all.

Hunters have the hardest time solo. Forces and Rangers can just laugh at bosses while kiting around them, anything that spawned with them, and the rain.

[Kent]

Gizonde and Weakening Shot set the entire beta free.
Tell me more about my precious Gizonde, as I'm really curious as to how well it stacks up in the game, considering how great it was in PSO. This statement makes it sound as if it's very powerful.

How do the other Gi- techniques stack up? One of the great things about them in PSO was how dramatically-different they were (in comparison to the other groups of techniques), and it certainly looks to be a similar setup here.

[kyuuketsuki]

The Gi- techs function almost exactly like their PSO counterparts. Gifoie is an expanding ring of fireballs, Gizonde is like chain lightning, Gibarta is like a cone of ice (though in this one it hits multiple times).

Gizonde is one of my favorites (and made me go for the zonde tree on my FO). I use it combined with Sazonde a lot. Only problem I've had is that it's easy to miss with the Gizonde blast (you send the initial blast of lightning at a single enemy and if it hits, and only if it hits, it branches out to other enemies).

[GrandTickler]

why is it so hard to get S-rank in missions with a force? im destroying the crap out of everything and barely get hit and still get A rank everywere. while with hunter i get beat around like a ragdoll and still get s rank -.-

[Atyl]

why is it so hard to get S-rank in missions with a force? im destroying the crap out of everything and barely get hit and still get A rank everywere. while with hunter i get beat around like a ragdoll and still get s rank -.-

For most levels it's a combination of 3 things: exploration, damage, and revives, so most likely you are relying on resta. FOs have a very easy time with avoiding hits because of Mirage step's extremely long invulnerability time combined with being able to move while charging Techs.

As a rule of thumb for non exploration levels if you have to use resta twice to heal yourself should be fully exploring the area so avoid rushing to the finish. If you don't have to heal yourself at all you'll obviously get a perfect so you should get S rank even dashing towards the finish.

[GrandTickler]

For most levels it's a combination of 3 things: exploration, damage, and revives, so most likely you are relying on resta. FOs have a very easy time with avoiding hits because of Mirage step's extremely long invulnerability time combined with being able to move while charging Techs.

As a rule of thumb for non exploration levels if you have to use resta twice to heal yourself should be fully exploring the area so avoid rushing to the finish. If you don't have to heal yourself at all you'll obviously get a perfect so you should get S rank even dashing towards the finish.

ah ok thats why. i was rushing cause it was the 20 minute time limit for rockbear.

also 1 more question, ibelieve i heard people here talk about deband and shifta. but i havent come across those. can a force learn them? if so how

[Randomness]

ah ok thats why. i was rushing cause it was the 20 minute time limit for rockbear.

also 1 more question, ibelieve i heard people here talk about deband and shifta. but i havent come across those. can a force learn them? if so how

Same as anything else. I've only ever found one Deband disc, and never got Shifta...

Level 2 deband is, unsurprisingly, not a huge decrease in damage (I think I take like 10 less from larger hits with it up? 7x reduced to 6x or so). It does have a good radius when charged. Is considered an ice tech, as well, not that it matters. I usually don't use it, just because it doesn't last for more than a minute or two at level 2. (It is cheap, at only 20 TP to fire off)

[GrandTickler]

Same as anything else. I've only ever found one Deband disc, and never got Shifta...

Level 2 deband is, unsurprisingly, not a huge decrease in damage (I think I take like 10 less from larger hits with it up? 7x reduced to 6x or so). It does have a good radius when charged. Is considered an ice tech, as well, not that it matters. I usually don't use it, just because it doesn't last for more than a minute or two at level 2. (It is cheap, at only 20 TP to fire off)

oh interesting, so its just very rare ;P thanks man

[Zeota]

ah ok thats why. i was rushing cause it was the 20 minute time limit for rockbear.

also 1 more question, ibelieve i heard people here talk about deband and shifta. but i havent come across those. can a force learn them? if so how

After a certain point, some of the NPCs around town that can accompany you will give out discs if you pick the first option when you talk to them. Echo gives you a deband disc if I remember right.

[GrandTickler]

After a certain point, some of the NPCs around town that can accompany you will give out discs if you pick the first option when you talk to them. Echo gives you a deband disc if I remember right.

hmm i tried talking to all the npcs in town but none of them gave anything, i did do all echo's quests too. maybe u need to do all matter board quests first?
thanks anyway

[Kent]

The Gi- techs function almost exactly like their PSO counterparts. Gifoie is an expanding ring of fireballs, Gizonde is like chain lightning, Gibarta is like a cone of ice (though in this one it hits multiple times).

Gizonde is one of my favorites (and made me go for the zonde tree on my FO). I use it combined with Sazonde a lot. Only problem I've had is that it's easy to miss with the Gizonde blast (you send the initial blast of lightning at a single enemy and if it hits, and only if it hits, it branches out to other enemies).
I'm completely okay with Gizonde needing an initial target to branch off to other enemies. Makes it less of a "deal a bunch of damage now" button, so it, like most of the other techniques, still requires some aim and skill to pull off.

As for Gibarta hitting multiple times: It's interesting that they went back to this, because Gibarta was actually capable of hitting multiple times in PSOv1 as well. The reason for this was because the individual ice shards that flew out had their own hitboxes, but this also made the technique very unreliable unless you were shotgunning an enemy with it. Effectively, it shot out a wildly-inaccurate series of ice projectiles, so you could in fact actually hit a single target multiple times... It was just tricky and dangerous to do. Gifoie was similar, in that the fireballs could actually hit targets multiple times, because the fireballs themselves had hitboxes to them.

As of Ep I & II, it was changed to just having a conal hit check for Gibarta (so it was much easier to hit with, but could only hit once) and an expanding cylinder for Gifoie (which can also only hit once, but will hit anything that enters the area - even flying enemies and things way up like De Rol Le on the ceiling). Double-edged sword balance measures, but with the added dynamism and more accurate manual aiming in a game like PSO2, they shouldn't be necessary.

Have you gotten to use Gigrants yet? Because it makes me think of Radiant Silvergun, and looks pretty sweet (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2743391&postcount=14).

[Crystal_Shard]

The Gi- techs function almost exactly like their PSO counterparts. Gifoie is an expanding ring of fireballs, Gizonde is like chain lightning, Gibarta is like a cone of ice (though in this one it hits multiple times).

Gizonde is one of my favorites (and made me go for the zonde tree on my FO). I use it combined with Sazonde a lot. Only problem I've had is that it's easy to miss with the Gizonde blast (you send the initial blast of lightning at a single enemy and if it hits, and only if it hits, it branches out to other enemies).

The easy to miss part is easily rectified by simply not using TPS mode. In normal view, all techs will home in on the closest targeted enemy you are facing like they did in PSO. A Force I used on Ship 6 used a pure Zonde build and was fairly successful with auto targeting. Considering that Gizonde will arc to practically all enemies within range, this made charged Gizonde extremely effective.

[Hayde]

I have a question regarding techs:

Is there a differentiation between placing them in your weapon palettes as Photon Arts versus placing them on your sub-palette (the 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc. bar in the bottom mid that generally occupies your consumable slots)?

Rather than swapping between three weapons or 9 techs, I ended up using a primary talis weapon with a secondary gunblade (my third weapon was a cane, but I honestly hardly used the thing) I just placed the rest of my spells on two sub-palettes so I didn't have to constantly switch weapons. Whenever I needed to "charge" a spell I just scrolled through them with my D-pad and held down the left trigger.

A bit slower than using the weapon palettes in a sense, but I found it more convenient on the off chance I needed a select tech to use. At this point in CBT, I didn't find the need to use my full arsenal of spells (to be fair, some of them seemed pretty weak) but I suspect as our library of spell increases (assuming they may buff some, or higher level techs increase its usability or with difficulty of progression) it seems like a sub-palette option is more going more and more viable.

So I ask; is there any gained benefits if I cast a spell from a weapon palette versus the sub-palette?

[GrandTickler]

I have a question regarding techs:

Is there a differentiation between placing them in your weapon palettes as Photon Arts versus placing them on your sub-palette (the 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc. bar in the bottom mid that generally occupies your consumable slots)?

Rather than swapping between three weapons or 9 techs, I ended up using a primary talis weapon with a secondary gunblade (my third weapon was a cane, but I honestly hardly used the thing) I just placed the rest of my spells on two sub-palettes so I didn't have to constantly switch weapons. Whenever I needed to "charge" a spell I just scrolled through them with my D-pad and held down the left trigger.

A bit slower than using the weapon palettes in a sense, but I found it more convenient on the off chance I needed a select tech to use. At this point in CBT, I didn't find the need to use my full arsenal of spells (to be fair, some of them seemed pretty weak) but I suspect as our library of spell increases (assuming they may buff some, or higher level techs increase its usability or with difficulty of progression) it seems like a sub-palette option is more going more and more viable.

So I ask; is there any gained benefits if I cast a spell from a weapon palette versus the sub-palette?

i dont think so, but the weapon pallete alows for faster use though.
i just had my same staff slotted 3x with 3 different move-sets. one with the lightning chain on right click as main attack for mobs. one with fire blast for bosses on r click, and one for ice AOE for cave bosses. (and the 2 moves out of these 3 that werent on R click were on my shift-click bars.
i only put resta in the sub-pallete and was planning to shifta and deband there too but never got those.


bottomline, its just for faster access.

[Vashyron]

I know that in the 2nd Alpha using attack techs from the pallet did less damage, I didn't test this in the Beta to know if it was changed though.

[stheno]

Its the number of times you get S rank with them in your party.

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?NPC%E3%83%97%E3%83%AC%E3%82%BC%E3%83%B3% E3%83%88

[njdss4]

There's so much with Forces I didn't get to try! Charging all the spells to see what the difference was, or even just finding all the disks! Couldn't play enough to obtain Grants, Shifta, Deband, Sazonde, and a few others. Can't wait for Open Beta, I know I'm going Ranger first (unless there are some massive nerfs incoming) but Force still looks like a ton of fun.

Quick question about Forces: Can you be a FOcast? IIRC, you couldn't be a Force if you picked to be a robot, but PSO2 lets you switch classes whenever you want...

[stheno]

Quick question about Forces: Can you be a FOcast?

Yes, you could make focast/caseals in cbt.

[njdss4]

Yes, you could make focast/caseals in cbt.

Sweet. Still, if I want to dabble with Ranger and Force, I don't know if playing a cast is the best choice...

[Randomness]

Sweet. Still, if I want to dabble with Ranger and Force, I don't know if playing a cast is the best choice...

Well, it's the worst choice, relative to other races, but racial differences are fairly small this time.

[Omega-z]

Randomness Is correct up to the base stat's. But anything could be great base on your "CHOICES" with the Skill Tree, Gear, MAG and the Ability stat. Since the Race differences are small.

[Randomness]

Randomness Is correct up to the base stat's. But anything could be great base on your "CHOICES" with the Skill Tree, Gear, MAG and the Ability stat. Since the Race differences are small.

He only asked about race anyways.

[njdss4]

Which class do you think needs more "help" from picking the best race for that class? Force or Ranger?

[Hansha]

"Photon Flare AfterBurst : Increases Technique damage by 200% while Photon Flare is on cooldown - 10 SP"

[SociableTyrannosaur]

way to necro

[UnLucky]

ya let's bump a year old thread with speculation

but I'd be ok with that if I could keep PF at lv1 for it

[Shadowth117]

0_0 THAT could be amazing. Dammit SEGA, I don't want to buy another tree ><

[Hansha]

Not speculation.

Also, is there another Force general discussion that I dont know about? I see a lot of topics on forces, but a general discussion would lessen the clutter and promote conversation.

[gigawuts]

"Photon Flare AfterBurst : Increases Technique damage by 200% while Photon Flare is on cooldown - 10 SP"

[citation needed]

(not saying you're lying, I totally believe Sega would do this)