How do the Japanese feel...

[Hayde]

So, I'm curious and my knowledge of Japanese--like many here, are limited to very phrases, so there would be no way of me knowing...but I'm curious as to how Japanese players feel about us "outsiders" playing their game/beta.

When I say outsider--well, I pretty much mean any players living in America, Europe...etc., not sure how they feel about Asian countries though I'll presume they might be more apathetic to them if they are able to communicate on some degree of Japanese.

Not trying to start anything here, but my experience with previous PSO/PSU titles, as well as other Japanese MMO franchise (FFXI, FFXIV) leads me to believe that they're generally not too fond of foreigners playing with them, on the basis of the language barrier and seemingly--two because of the simple fact we're not Japanese; obviously not everyone is like that.

So I'm curious, has there been any discussion on their forums or in game about us playing their beta? I'd have to believe someone, somewhere out there has already blamed us for the unstable servers--and I would not be surprised to see some sort of petition to exclude us from the official launch.

If I had to be honest, I'd say this post is more of me being prepared for the worst; I don't want to be hyped about this game or beta knowing they might try some regional blocking--Sega of America is not looking too hot these days, so I'm not counting this game for a state-side release.

[Cows]

They probably don't mind us just as long as we aren't annoying or anything.

[Griffin]

Like Brazilians being on American servers. Them being there isn't a problem until they take over and act like complete idiots.

[BuyTheChicken]

Funny you mention this!

One of the top threads on the Japanese Closed Beta BBS is actually about Foreigners being on the game...and its not very positive :(
Some are even saying we are causing the servers to lag and even go down, as was the case of Block 20...these people also proposed IP blocking to keep us out. Overall pretty negative stuff about us being on this beta...
The odd clever person added positive comments such as overseas markets being full of SEGA fans who would like to take part in these types of pre-release tests and frankly i can only agree...both on our behalf but also from a marketing perspective.

[Xaton]

well on the server load claim... they better have proof lol... and if its gonna go global then better to have it go down in beta of load and adjust accordingly then be time it goes out and have them fart out. plus dont think alot of US players know of phantasy star games anymore lol cept ones that come to pso and stuff. and also were helping them test their range limits and stuff like how much power it woudl take to handle us servers if sperate or what ever.

[Macman]

One of the top threads on the Japanese Closed Beta BBS is actually about Foreigners being on the game...and its not very positive :(
Some are even saying we are causing the servers to lag and even go down, as was the case of Block 20...these people also proposed IP blocking to keep us out. Overall pretty negative stuff about us being on this beta...HA... HA... HA!
Nevermind that everytime the servers struggle is when all the Japanese get out of bed.

[Hayde]

Funny you mention this!

One of the top threads on the Japanese Closed Beta BBS is actually about Foreigners being on the game...and its not very positive :(
Some are even saying we are causing the servers to lag and even go down, as was the case of Block 20...these people also proposed IP blocking to keep us out. Overall pretty negative stuff about us being on this beta...
The odd clever person added positive comments such as overseas markets being full of SEGA fans who would like to take part in these types of pre-release tests and frankly i can only agree...both on our behalf but also from a marketing perspective.

Not too surprised about this; I suppose this will be up to the dev's. I had every intention of playing and even using the cash shop every so often to support them...but if they region block us, well that's their loss.

[Ryudo]

The odd clever person added positive comments such as overseas markets being full of SEGA fans who would like to take part in these types of pre-release tests and frankly i can only agree...both on our behalf but also from a marketing perspective.

Well hopefully they know who to listen to then, they couldnt buy the kind of PR & Advertsing they're getting from people posting about it and streaming videos twitch.tv is abuzz with PSO2 feeds

[Gunslinger-08]

So we're just a bunch of BAKA GAIJIN to them? Or are the majority actually pretty cool?

[DayDreamer]

well that's their loss.
Exactly how I feel
As long as we are being incredibly rude and annoying I don't see the issue.

[Clessy]

The true irony is I think more of us are playing than them. Japan needs to understand its totally not relivant anymore. It creates the lesat amount of profit.

[Macman]

Except for the fact that, you know, all the lag happens when the Japanese zergrush the server during their prime time.

[Freshellent]

Odd subject to handle really. I treat the whole thing as though we are guests and just do my best to stay out of the way. Still though, I wish language wasn't a barrier for us, there wouldn't be any issues otherwise.

[Griffin]

I'm sure the Japanese are wise enough to know that it isn't because of us the servers are laggy, but because it's a beta and the whole point of numerous players playing is to stress the servers. So if anything, we'd be doing Sega a favor. Like Macman is implying, the most of us are playing when the Japanese should be asleep. Even if some people on both sides are playing late night, it's just not enough people to make lag present.

[Hayde]

I'm sure the Japanese are wise enough to know that it isn't because of us the servers are laggy, but because it's a beta and the whole point of numerous players playing is to stress the servers. So if anything, we'd be doing Sega a favor. Like Macman is implying, the most of us are playing when the Japanese should be asleep. Even if some people on both sides are playing late night, it's just not enough people to make lag present.

The server lag is undoubtedly poor hardware, software, or a combination of both. When I log on during the day (central time) there is virtually no one online (I landed on ship 4, I play on block 44 during the peak times and otherwise I just hop on block 1 or whatever) so I don't think the "outsider" impact is nearly as big as they think.

If I happen to log on early in the morning, that's when the lag is most prevalent. I hardly see any NA/EU/other English-speaking players online so I do agree with you that their blame on us is likely just a scapegoat mentality.

I don't know how well (or not well) Sega of Japan is doing, but having the few hardcore/loyal Sega/PSO fans from outside their country playing should be doing them more benefits than harm; at best we'd only make up maybe a couple thousand in population--arguably less if there are no English language options on launch. (Yes I'm aware of the "English Patch", but there are those who prefer a total English experience and not the basic functionality ...to know the story and all that jazz).

All in all, what I'm implying is more money to Sega of Japan equals more money to Sega in general. I have no idea what Sega of America is doing these days, they laid off a good amount of employers and hacked off several titles, retaining some really odd games that I don't anyone would likely purchase.

Seeing how this *is* a F2P title, it would not be a huge risk for SoA to release this for the English community; however....past experiences with PSO/PSU games imply that I'd likely have a better experience in terms of having content if I remain importer status, which really would be my biggest gripe if they implement region blocking.

[Wayu]

Think of how we're kinda semi-blaming the Japanese for clogging up the server. Flip that back on us, except with the Japanese saying WE'RE clogging up the server (although we're much, much fewer in number they don't really know that).

That's the general reaction on both sides. At least among the younger generations, gossip and blame is probably more prevalent than intelligent discussion (both Japanese and foreigners) and thinking about what's really making the issue occur.

-Wayu

[Sidney]

I think that's a false dichotomy, Wayu; it's not like we are there in proportional amounts. It's much more reasonable that the large amounts of Japanese people signing on at peak hour in Japan are the ones slowing the sever down. Think about it: it's a Japanese game, in the language of Japanese, made for a primary target of Japanese people. I'd say the foreigners are still a minority compared to to the Japanese, which would make complete sense.

When I think of Japan, I think of a homogeneous society that is not known for being tolerant to very much diversity. I'm not surprised that they aren't happy with us. :lol:

[Rizen]

Fact is fact though, regardless of whether or not we are foreigners, the servers aren't stable period. If there were same number of JP players to replace our numbers, it would have the same effect and vice versa. Not justifying us staying playing in CBT, but it's senseless for anyone to think that temporarily eliminating a group of people will help solve the problem...it is simply delaying the inevitable.

SEGA needs to fix the servers instead of doing quick fixes, but again that is the purpose of a beta. Next beta will surely see improvements.

[Griffin]

Which is sad, soubrette. I really like Japanese people.

[eharima]

to be fair, all the JP players I have met are cool, I think i make them smile with my broken Japanese wwwwwwwwwww

Also, regardless of what some official forum thread say, the network engineers log will show all IP regions and whats happening on problem or peak times
Im sure they have to show their reports and kawaii graphs and pie charts of who and when.

they're professionals dare i say it :P

[Mizumi323]

In general, it would seem Japanese players are much more pleasant if you're speaking their language; foreign or not. Though most of the ones I end up with in parties are very nice. ^^; Even if you don't speak Japanese and join a full-Japanese party, they tend to be quite pleasant. Though, these are only my experiences from PSU and PSO2's Beta.

[Wayu]

Well, the number of xenophobic Japanese constitutes a pretty low percentage of beta testers. The rest are mostly pretty chill.

I guess the only people that might be annoyed are those that stay in Block 20 and have to deal with Saber and that other person spamming the Miku and Saber symbol arts.

-Wayu

[Yamishi]

It's too bad that we're getting blamed for lag/instability. I played with a guy earlier who didn't speak much English, but he was extremely friendly, and when we parted ways, we thanked each other for the game.

Keep in mind that the purpose of Alpha/Beta tests are designed to get feedback, and obviously, having hundreds of people who can't even speak your language can get between issues and fixes. The thinking goes that the spots that we're taking up on their servers could go to Japanese people who can report the bugs that they find, whereas we can't (in many cases).

Still, as Icespike said, I act like a guest, and generally keep to myself unless I'm with English-speaking individuals.

[eharima]

Yeah the JP never did like the lobby chat, apparently its rude, like talking on the phone in a train.
net-tequette i suppose. with so many blocks im sure its gonna be okay.

anyone know what the block limits are?

edit; @Yamishi they wanted 100,000 SIMULTANEOUS connections, the obviously didnt get it so far, because they added +3 invites for everyone
so at SEGA HQ im sure they're not bothered who connects to the server

[Yamishi]

edit; @Yamishi they wanted 100,000 SIMULTANEOUS connections, the obviously didnt get it so far, because they added +3 invites for everyone
so at SEGA HQ im sure they're not bothered who connects to the server

Valid point, but some of my friends who registered didn't get in... Wouldn't that indicate that they did hit 100,000? Or is there more to this?

At any rate, there's absolutely no doubt that they can see our IPs at SoJ, so they obviously don't mind us being there. It's just that I don't want JP players to be upset with us! :P

[eharima]

^ did they apply for the beta or was an invite??
either way they wanted to stress test the server, and dont forget that new people = downloading th 3.3gb client, which has to be hosted by sega, so they might have wanted to constrain bandwidth seeing as there was lag problems, they might have held off on the new applicants.... just a guess

and TBH we did manage to organize ourselves as a mob to take down ship 2 lobby 20 haha we're kinda out the way

[Yuicihi]

Funny you mention this!

One of the top threads on the Japanese Closed Beta BBS is actually about Foreigners being on the game...and its not very positive :(
Some are even saying we are causing the servers to lag and even go down, as was the case of Block 20...these people also proposed IP blocking to keep us out. Overall pretty negative stuff about us being on this beta...
The odd clever person added positive comments such as overseas markets being full of SEGA fans who would like to take part in these types of pre-release tests and frankly i can only agree...both on our behalf but also from a marketing perspective.

Unfortunate, and... Unfortunately unsurprising. Vocal minority, and all that.
Most people I run into in-game are usually very friendly, foreigner or otherwise.

The constant dance parties with indecent symbol chat in Ship 2, Block 20 probably do not help matters, though.

[Wayu]

Unfortunate, and... Unfortunately unsurprising. Vocal minority, and all that.
Most people I run into in-game are usually very friendly, foreigner or otherwise.

The constant dance parties with indecent symbol chat Ship 2, Block 20 probably do not help matters, though.

Minority focusing on the actions of a minority and applying to a whole.

There's a term for that but I can't remember it. >.>

-Wayu

[RocSage]

#1. No more than 10% of an MMO community post on forums usually and you will always get overly positive or overly negative as the majority of those forum posts.

#2. You can map out server performance over the course of a day. I have played virtually all day for the last 3 days and prime JP hours are really bad where as prime US hours are really good. The reason for this is fairly obvious. The hardware or software or both right now cannot handle the amount of connections that they predicted. They are getting inbound connections but are not delivering outbound right.

#3. Over the last 3 days the problem has been gotten better

#4. The 1 JP i partied with didn't have a problem with me. Interestingly neither of us knew "much" of the others' language, but we pretty much spoke opposite languages when we spoke to each other the few times we did.

[Rauten]

Think of how we're kinda semi-blaming the Japanese for clogging up the server. Flip that back on us, except with the Japanese saying WE'RE clogging up the server (although we're much, much fewer in number they don't really know that).

But we're not really blaming them. It's a beta, and stuff like this is meant to happen in peak times. Is it because of the japanese zergrushing the server at their high hours? Of course it is. Are we blaming them? I certainly don't think it's the case.
Blaming us, the few handful of dirty gaijin players that have managed to sneak in, for the lag and connectivity issues (except for Block 20, but that's a different story ^^;) is just stupid, and merely an expression of the xenophobic nature of the Japanese culture.

However...


The thinking goes that the spots that we're taking up on their servers could go to Japanese people who can report the bugs that they find, whereas we can't (in many cases).

That, I find, is a much more acceptable reason for being against us/our presence and ask for an IP ban. Our presence does kind of go against the purpose of a beta, since many of us cannot properly report (or report at all) on the issues we find.

But yeah, the Japanese not being happy about non-JP players sneaking in, nothing new... :wacko:

P.S. I realize this whole post may sound anti-japanese, but it is not. The few times that fate made me play with JP players, in any game, just made me wish I was japanese because GOOD DEAR LORD, are they polite; made me feel embarassed of beign a dirty westerner.

[Arika]

Well all I see in this thread is that people are worry too much to the small stuff.


First of all, did anybody ever read Bakuman? every high population country in the world is the same. Chinese, Japanese, America.. etc. You always have a small group of people complain about something all the time. And you most likely not even care anything about that. Same here, majority of JP don't care about us. Only a few that care and those who care are the one that posted. Naturally, the one that not care will not post at all, which is why u don't see much positive comment on it. It will just be left ignored like how the thread now get push down into 2nd page of the forum. No longer on top anymore. You should stop worry about that, because SEGA doesn't come out to post anything at all. I think they know that our connection isn't the reason of problem, obviously.

Another note is that, 70% of the post in gaijin thread is about Chinese and RMT. and also some other bad manner one.
If you don't be RMT or bad manner then you should not care.
If you have bad manner then you should fix it. Because JP community kidda care of how guest act. When we play on their server, they expect us to be a good guest and as polite as them.

[RocSage]

That, I find, is a much more acceptable reason for being against us/our presence and ask for an IP ban. Our presence does kind of go against the purpose of a beta, since many of us cannot properly report (or report at all) on the issues we find.

But yeah, the Japanese not being happy about non-JP players sneaking in, nothing new... :wacko:

That is incredibly stupid to think.

First of all, Most people don't have a clue on how to report bugs and glitches so it doesn't really matter because they aren't going to get a proper report from anyone in specific.

Secondly, even when the few people that do know how to beta test do get those invites they, like everyone else goes through a department that reads through all the reports, organizes them, and tries to assign importance while doing the same thing with the in house finds, and then those bugs found by the players have to be found and then figured out by the in house testers and then a proper report has to be written up.

Thirdly, Given that both of those are the case, and PSO-W is actually the biggest PSO fanbase, at leas in the US, out there it is likely that those PR people are checking up on this site. It would be such a faux pas to not have people looking on this site and whatever the biggest site is over there that if I were the head of Sega and found out my PR department wasn't checking up on them i'd probably be firing some people or at least giving some people a talking down.

[Finalzone]

Above post summarized the point. Few days ago on Ship 2 Block 20, few players simply left after the quest is completed without a single message of thank you.
Changing the manner and behaviour will greatly help. I think later night I will play with japanese party despite my limited kana.

[Kazzi]

It's kind of funny that they blame us for the lag when the lag only really occurs during the Japanese peak times (4-10pm JST I've noticed). The servers are pretty stable from midnight their time, so I hardly think it's our fault.

I've partied with some nice Japanese players, and some absolutely awful ones who insulted me purely for having my name in English! You get all types, there's not much you can do about it at the end of the day.

[PKS]

Some are like that. Not all.
I still remember back on FFXI when I was dead in a zone and an elvaan (stupid me almost said newman) was passing by and I used the auto chat to ask them for a raise.

They knew very well I was asking for a raise but all they would say is "Sorry, I don't understand."
But of course when I finally started typing to them in japanese asking for some help for a raise, they got so friendly that they literally raised me AND escorted me back to town and gave me some gil/money before going back to business.

[Arika]

I've partied with some nice Japanese players, and some absolutely awful ones who insulted me purely for having my name in English! You get all types, there's not much you can do about it at the end of the day.

That is not possible at all. Japanese name their own char as English to for majority. At least 65%-70% they use English name. So the same guy would blame everyone he met then? there must be other reason that he insulted you. However, do that care that kind of people. I already said that there are always the side that will dislike anything. You just met that one. (but make sure always polite first)

[GrandTickler]

ingame all japanese people i meet are very nice, when i usualy say hi or ask some questions they answer in english as wel and they ask where i come from and such. had some great co-op groups already. i dont understand where the lag comes from though. mostly from 8 am to 12-14ish pm europe time the servers start lagging. the rest of the day its perfect. not a single bit of lag ever.

[Fayorei]

Funny you mention this!

One of the top threads on the Japanese Closed Beta BBS is actually about Foreigners being on the game...and its not very positive :(
Some are even saying we are causing the servers to lag and even go down, as was the case of Block 20...these people also proposed IP blocking to keep us out. Overall pretty negative stuff about us being on this beta...
The odd clever person added positive comments such as overseas markets being full of SEGA fans who would like to take part in these types of pre-release tests and frankly i can only agree...both on our behalf but also from a marketing perspective.

Enh, I don't care.:P Not like they're not like this in other games anyways, even with official unified servers.

Plus, the whiners of the milk rise to the top like the cream de la creme of whiners. I imagine it's just like the official BBS on any other MMO in any country(whine whine whine moan moan moan whine!). It's like going to the official World of Warcraft forums or anything else really.:P

And, the purpose of beta is also stress testing. BETA IS BETA. It's something people here are complaining about with the Diablo III and Mists of Pandaria beta, as well as the upcoming Guild Wars 2 Closed Beta Test Weekend #1 on April 27th(surely, this is going to happen- "I PRE-PURCHASED NOW GIVE ME A FULLY WORKING DEMO!"). People act entitled to a full-game experience while something is under testing. Emergency maintenance happens, bugs happen, and especially login issues and lag issues ALWAYS happen. It's a test for a reason, someone should really tell the Japanese whining community minority that. Pretttty darn entitlted, in my humblest opinion. Especially since the lag is occurring during peak hours in Japan, when a lot of the miniscule international community is asleep.

Just goes to show you have jacks in every region, and decent people. You just pray that you find the latter!

Personally, I have not encountered a single problem thus far, and I have a working knowledge of Japanese(but I just usually stay quiet anyhow, it's my style in any online game I play).

[Xaton]

i mainly bene soloing and ran into some one named SARAH in ship 2 forgot what block though. debateing on what could be good idea or what should be told to sega in feedback stage

[BIG OLAF]

I've yet to even talk to a Japanese person on the Beta. I've mostly been in Block 20, talking with everyone from here and/or other English locales.

I'm not outwardly social anyway, and only engage in conversation once someone else projects one towards me (unless I know the 'targeted' individual). So, the JP community wouldn't have to worry about me being 'annoying.'

...unless I'm yukking it up with some friends. But, hey, if they get all stuffy because I'm having fun with some pals, then up theirs.

[ShadowDragon28]

This must be the thread you are refering too...

http://pso2.jp/cbt/bbs/?mode=detail&gid=6023&forum=7

It's really immature and pathetic how xenophobic and bigoted *some* Japanese people are towards non-Japanese people.

[DayDreamer]

I guess the only people that might be annoyed are those that stay in Block 20 and have to deal with Saber and that other person spamming the Miku and Saber symbol arts.

-Wayu

Don't forget about the guy that spam's the penis symbol art..
Very mature.. e- e

[Mike]

There is a topic on the player's site dealing with this very thing:
http://pso2.jp/cbt/bbs/?mode=detail&gid=6023&forum=7

EDIT: Wow, completely missed Shadowdragon's post. Never mind me.

[Drinkmaster]

Well all I see in this thread is that people are worry too much to the small stuff.


First of all, did anybody ever read Bakuman? every high population country in the world is the same. Chinese, Japanese, America.. etc. You always have a small group of people complain about something all the time. And you most likely not even care anything about that. Same here, majority of JP don't care about us. Only a few that care and those who care are the one that posted. Naturally, the one that not care will not post at all, which is why u don't see much positive comment on it. It will just be left ignored like how the thread now get push down into 2nd page of the forum. No longer on top anymore. You should stop worry about that, because SEGA doesn't come out to post anything at all. I think they know that our connection isn't the reason of problem, obviously.

Another note is that, 70% of the post in gaijin thread is about Chinese and RMT. and also some other bad manner one.
If you don't be RMT or bad manner then you should not care.
If you have bad manner then you should fix it. Because JP community kidda care of how guest act. When we play on their server, they expect us to be a good guest and as polite as them.


agreed.

[Spellbinder]

Another note is that, 70% of the post in gaijin thread is about Chinese and RMT. and also some other bad manner one.
If you don't be RMT or bad manner then you should not care.
If you have bad manner then you should fix it. Because JP community kidda care of how guest act. When we play on their server, they expect us to be a good guest and as polite as them.

This is pretty much the impression I got from reading the thread.

- Chinese
- RMT
- People with bad manners
- Uneasiness about playing with people they can't communicate with
etc.

[Menochi]

Doesn't seem much different than an earlier topic that was here, really. Like any topic when language is the subject.

"I don't mind them playing, but at least have the decency to read Japanese. When the game description says Forces only, and a hunter joins, that's unacceptable."

"There's always going to be foreigners playing. In Alpha 2 there were English speakers, and now we've got Chinese."

"Considerate foreigners or rude Japanese. Which would you prefer?"

"At about 9 am there was a ton of native level English speakers in ship 2 block 20, discussing about the story. While there were some Japanese players, most parties had English comments in them. While it'd be great to believe a bunch of English speakers moved to Japan, the reality is that it is prime time for them at that hour."

[Rizen]

Another note is that, 70% of the post in gaijin thread is about Chinese and RMT. and also some other bad manner one.
If you don't be RMT or bad manner then you should not care.
If you have bad manner then you should fix it. Because JP community kidda care of how guest act. When we play on their server, they expect us to be a good guest and as polite as them.

In other words...what Arika is saying is
Learn a bit of Japanese.
Say a few badly phrased sentence once in a while
Watch as they get a kick out of laughing at what you unintentionally said
Everyone gets along

Sounds like a good plan to me!

[ShadowDragon28]

wtf is "RMT" ?

Those particular JP players in the thread saying "foreign players" should be banned really need to chill the frak out. Blaming us for the server lag is pathetically stupid IMO.

[Spellbinder]

wtf is "RMT" ?

Those particular JP players in the thread saying "foreign players" should be banned really need to chill the frak out. Blaming us for the server lag is pathetically stupid IMO.

RMT = Real Money Trade (I believe that's it?). Essentially selling ingame currency and items for real money. For online games with any sort of economy it can cause lots of problems.

[Mike]

wtf is "RMT" ?

Those particular JP players in the thread saying "foreign players" should be banned really need to chill the frak out. Blaming us for the server lag is pathetically stupid IMO.

Real money trading. Buying items and currancy for real money through a 3rd party.

[shiink]

I think that really the main issue is the "net-etiquette". I mean with my experience the Japanese are generally friendly and tolerant. So long as you are not being rude or vexing to them they just want to play the game as much as you do. Really for the most part they are focused on the game and if you are not a burden they won't mind. You don't necessarily need to communicate to do just that.

The people here that have knowledge of Japanese certainly won't notice this as much because they see you communicating in their language and immediately the barrier drops. Even if you stumble a bit with broken nihongo they will be more patient.

I can see where they might get disgruntled about people joining where the description states that they shouldn't In which case it may be better for us foreigners to play it safe. If you see a description like "どなたでもどうぞ” Then it is probably fair game. But as far as the lobby etiquette goes, they can pretty much deal. The lobby spam and what not can annoy anyone not just the Japanese. People will continue on regardless. You, Them, or I can easily relocate your party to another block so it is not the big of a deal.

I don't really see the reason for all the fuss about foreigners. OK so its against the TOS, but SEGA likes money and they won't cut out a potential source of income. The server needs to deal with its stress issues regardless especially if they happen to attract even more players either inside or outside of Japan.

Sorry my thoughts are kind of scattered its late and I need my Phantasy Star fix.

Edit: "I have played several times with foreigners, there is no problem I have come with properly attack it properly.
As if the tester will not free? Leading to an operation or I think I think, a good addition if foreign residents in Japan, then we're in English or even to report the bug, even if you copy and paste with translation? Or, ne question is variously Well, now it's foreign priority bug reports aside. " See not ALL of them hate us :P

[Polantaris]

It's really immature and pathetic how xenophobic and bigoted *some* Japanese people are towards non-Japanese people.

It's no different then what happens on US servers. Browse any forum for any F2P MMO, or just any community in general, and you'll see plenty of hate for foreigners. It's nothing new.

Honestly, we should all just always remember to never give a bad impression to the local players. Ever. Pretty sure the TOS still has a "This game is only for people living in Japan" clause, so we can be banned at any time, for any reason.

Politeness is a big deal in Japanese culture. Cursing in Local chat is a very very bad idea. In general, you really shouldn't be having conversations in local chat. Party Chat, Team Chat (If there is Team Chat, I'm not in a team but I assume there would be one), and Whispers are all there for a reason. As someone else mentioned in this thread, it's considered rude to carry out a conversation in local chat. Doing it in English just gives the impression that foreigners are disrupting the game.

I've already seen plenty of screenshots of people spamming stupid things in Local Chat. No one should be doing this.

There was a thread a few months back in the PSU forums about almost exactly the same situation(It didn't start off that way, but it eventually went there). You guys might want to reference it, there's no reason to repeat more of what was said there.

Just a rule of thumb: If you think something might be rude, bare on the safe side, and just don't do it.

Just as a side note, something I learned from my time playing Monster Hunter Frontier Online: If you accidentally say something in Local Chat, if you follow it up with "ミス" (misu), which means Miss, people don't bother you. They get that everyone makes mistakes, and as long as you're polite about it you shouldn't have any problems.

We should focus on starting this game off with a good impression on foreigners. I've played a few games 5+ years back that were not IP-banned, and then issues with foreigners changed it.

[Xaton]

here is what i posted in english and japanese so yea no sure how well that will go and not sure how well i translated. can soem oen fact check it XD

dont be angry



本文

ok Yes is from america but blameing america or any western groups for lag on a BETA test of the game. im sorry isnt BETA ment to be used to test the limits so us from western side of globe is helping test its limits and how they shoudl adapt to it. and ironicly when most lag you state happens is when peak hours of japan are on our peak hours which is complete oppisite of yours has no lag. thing is this tests hwo far and how well servers will do later on if handle america and all that at once then think if they single out servers and not share them with US suddenly your thign can handle much more compared to just testing only in japan.

So being negative towards western for joining in is bad karma and about as bad as christian bigotry. [ANd im christian of all things

this will be translated in english and japan useing a translator so if i offend sorry. plus this game iswhat made me want to learn katakana

[OK]を[はい]アメリカがblameingアメリカからであるか、またはゲームのベータテストでラグの任意の西部のグルー プ。 IMは申し訳ありません地球の西側から限界ので、私たちをテストするために使用されるBETAメンターでは ありませんしても、その限界とそれらがどのようにそれに適応shoudlをテスト支援しています。日本のピ ーク時間があなたの完全なoppisiteである私たちのピーク時にあるときとironiclyほとんどは あなたが状態が起こる遅れるときであるしてもラグを持っていません。事は、ハンドルアメリカとすべてが一度 にその後米国と共有し、それらを彼らがサーバ外のシングルとされていない場合突然thignはるかにちょう ど日本で唯一のテストに比べて扱うことができると思われる場合は、サーバが後でどうしようもHWOこれまで のテストである。

そこらに参加するため西部に向かって負であることは悪いカルマとキリスト教の偏見と同じくらい 悪いです。 [とのすべての物事のIMクリスチャン

これは、私は申し訳ありませんので、もし怒らトランスレータをuseing英語、日本で翻訳さ れます。

[Xaton]

It's no different then what happens on US servers. Browse any forum for any F2P MMO, or just any community in general, and you'll see plenty of hate for foreigners. It's nothing new.

Honestly, we should all just always remember to never give a bad impression to the local players. Ever. Pretty sure the TOS still has a "This game is only for people living in Japan" clause, so we can be banned at any time, for any reason.

Politeness is a big deal in Japanese culture. Cursing in Local chat is a very very bad idea. In general, you really shouldn't be having conversations in local chat. Party Chat, Team Chat (If there is Team Chat, I'm not in a team but I assume there would be one), and Whispers are all there for a reason. As someone else mentioned in this thread, it's considered rude to carry out a conversation in local chat. Doing it in English just gives the impression that foreigners are disrupting the game.

I've already seen plenty of screenshots of people spamming stupid things in Local Chat. No one should be doing this.

There was a thread a few months back in the PSU forums about almost exactly the same situation(It didn't start off that way, but it eventually went there). You guys might want to reference it, there's no reason to repeat more of what was said there.

Just a rule of thumb: If you think something might be rude, bare on the safe side, and just don't do it.

Just as a side note, something I learned from my time playing Monster Hunter Frontier Online: If you accidentally say something in Local Chat, if you follow it up with "ミス" (misu), which means Miss, people don't bother you. They get that everyone makes mistakes, and as long as you're polite about it you shouldn't have any problems.

We should focus on starting this game off with a good impression on foreigners. I've played a few games 5+ years back that were not IP-banned, and then issues with foreigners changed it.

wait wait there litterly a no america or no outlander or gaijin allowed clause? X.X thats kinda rude in it self and thus bad karma. and why not conversatio in local? is it like considerd shouting in public like "HAY HERRY get ove rhere" type yelling or somthing?

[LeoTheFabulous]

It's no different then what happens on US servers. Browse any forum for any F2P MMO, or just any community in general, and you'll see plenty of hate for foreigners. It's nothing new.



My thoughts exactly, this topic basically mirrors every other foreigner related thread I have ever seen.

Personally, I rarely speak at all when I am outside block 20. I don't even join others parties out of respect that they may not want me in there.

[Spellbinder]

here is what i posted in english and japanese so yea no sure how well that will go and not sure how well i translated. can soem oen fact check it XD

dont be angry



本文

ok Yes is from america but blameing america or any western groups for lag on a BETA test of the game. im sorry isnt BETA ment to be used to test the limits so us from western side of globe is helping test its limits and how they shoudl adapt to it. and ironicly when most lag you state happens is when peak hours of japan are on our peak hours which is complete oppisite of yours has no lag. thing is this tests hwo far and how well servers will do later on if handle america and all that at once then think if they single out servers and not share them with US suddenly your thign can handle much more compared to just testing only in japan.

So being negative towards western for joining in is bad karma and about as bad as christian bigotry. [ANd im christian of all things

this will be translated in english and japan useing a translator so if i offend sorry. plus this game iswhat made me want to learn katakana

[OK]を[はい]アメリカがblameingアメリカからであるか、またはゲームのベータテストでラグの任意の西部のグルー プ。 IMは申し訳ありません地球の西側から限界ので、私たちをテストするために使用されるBETAメンターでは ありませんしても、その限界とそれらがどのようにそれに適応shoudlをテスト支援しています。日本のピ ーク時間があなたの完全なoppisiteである私たちのピーク時にあるときとironiclyほとんどは あなたが状態が起こる遅れるときであるしてもラグを持っていません。事は、ハンドルアメリカとすべてが一度 にその後米国と共有し、それらを彼らがサーバ外のシングルとされていない場合突然thignはるかにちょう ど日本で唯一のテストに比べて扱うことができると思われる場合は、サーバが後でどうしようもHWOこれまで のテストである。

そこらに参加するため西部に向かって負であることは悪いカルマとキリスト教の偏見と同じくらい 悪いです。 [とのすべての物事のIMクリスチャン

これは、私は申し訳ありませんので、もし怒らトランスレータをuseing英語、日本で翻訳さ れます。

I couldn't follow the Japanese translation at all...

[zOObie1]

here is what i posted in english and japanese so yea no sure how well that will go and not sure how well i translated. can soem oen fact check it XD

dont be angry



本文

ok Yes is from america but blameing america or any western groups for lag on a BETA test of the game. im sorry isnt BETA ment to be used to test the limits so us from western side of globe is helping test its limits and how they shoudl adapt to it. and ironicly when most lag you state happens is when peak hours of japan are on our peak hours which is complete oppisite of yours has no lag. thing is this tests hwo far and how well servers will do later on if handle america and all that at once then think if they single out servers and not share them with US suddenly your thign can handle much more compared to just testing only in japan.

So being negative towards western for joining in is bad karma and about as bad as christian bigotry. [ANd im christian of all things

this will be translated in english and japan useing a translator so if i offend sorry. plus this game iswhat made me want to learn katakana

[OK]を[はい]アメリカがblameingアメリカからであるか、またはゲームのベータテストでラグの任意の西部のグルー プ。 IMは申し訳ありません地球の西側から限界ので、私たちをテストするために使用されるBETAメンターでは ありませんしても、その限界とそれらがどのようにそれに適応shoudlをテスト支援しています。日本のピ ーク時間があなたの完全なoppisiteである私たちのピーク時にあるときとironiclyほとんどは あなたが状態が起こる遅れるときであるしてもラグを持っていません。事は、ハンドルアメリカとすべてが一度 にその後米国と共有し、それらを彼らがサーバ外のシングルとされていない場合突然thignはるかにちょう ど日本で唯一のテストに比べて扱うことができると思われる場合は、サーバが後でどうしようもHWOこれまで のテストである。

そこらに参加するため西部に向かって負であることは悪いカルマとキリスト教の偏見と同じくらい 悪いです。 [とのすべての物事のIMクリスチャン

これは、私は申し訳ありませんので、もし怒らトランスレータをuseing英語、日本で翻訳さ れます。

You should probably learn English before katakana.

[SELENNA]

He used a translator.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I can't speak for other games but with my experience with JPs who played ffxi....tend to stay to themselves...
Now could be a communication issue...since in that game requires some form communication and guess would be hard trying to auto-translate everything...

Even stuff that didn't really require much communication....if you spoke english....probably wasn't gettin into a JP based party.

Of course there was often exceptions to this but it just seem overall they keep to themselves...for w/e reason idk...

[HeartBreak301]

I was kind of wondering how they thought about us, as some people brought up earlier we tend to complain a lot about Brazilians taking over and acting like idiots, but you'll probably get that with whatever country is on in bulk. Also Macman brought up a good point that in that they're noticing all the lag when Japan is in prime time as far as people logging on is concerned.

I haven't read pages 3~5 but if they do decide to take some action against countries outside of Japan it wouldn't be the first time. When it comes to anything they have a hand in, they always favor themselves first and greatly. I guess it's understandable when it's looked at from a political viewpoint, but these are videogames.

I decided not to play PSU online but if they decide to go down the same road regarding their treatment of servers, players and everything else outside of their country I don't see why I should even bother with the game. I also wish I could say it was just SEGA doing this but it's damn near every Japanese game company that's screwing over everyone outside of their own nation.

I have to wonder if we'll even see any form of advertising for this game on the web that's not on a Japanese site. Hell, even Nexon threw the cash at commercials for Maplestory and such.

Tl;dr - It's a hell of a lot easier to blame everyone else for your problems and we're probably going to draw the short straw again because of it.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I have to wonder if we'll even see any form of advertising for this game on the web that's not on a Japanese site. Hell, even Nexon threw the cash at commercials for Maplestory and such.

iirc when psu first came out...don't recall much of english advertisement...well except on gamestop but that doesn't really count :/

[Polantaris]

wait wait there litterly a no america or no outlander or gaijin allowed clause? X.X thats kinda rude in it self and thus bad karma. and why not conversatio in local? is it like considerd shouting in public like "HAY HERRY get ove rhere" type yelling or somthing?

I remember seeing it in the TOS for Alpha 2, but I didn't look over the TOS for CBT. I don't see why it would have been removed, or really even changed.

As for the talking in Local...it's just considered rude. That's how it is. I don't know why, I don't live in Japan. I just know that talking out in Local is shunned upon. As such, you should avoid doing it, and if you must do it make it short. A Hello or two is fine, however you don't want to be carrying out full fledged conversations in Local chat. There's party chat and whispering especially for that reason.

To the guy who posted the message in the BBS: That was a terrible idea. Not only was the concept bad, but your English is awful (No offense, but seriously) and using Google Translate to turn your broken English into Japanese was even worse. I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese players can't even decipher the broken Japanese as a result of Google Translate combining with your awful English. I'm not trying to be rude, just stating the truth.

[Bior]

I don't understand... if they don't like talking in Local chat.. why is there even a local chat?

[Sirius-91]

In other words...what Arika is saying is
Learn a bit of Japanese.
Say a few badly phrased sentence once in a while
Watch as they get a kick out of laughing at what you unintentionally said
Everyone gets along

Sounds like a good plan to me!

I assume this is why they allowed us to copy and paste messages.

[shiink]

I don't understand... if they don't like talking in Local chat.. why is there even a local chat?

Well. Maybe for trying to gather a party of people who want to do the same mission that you're working on if none of your friends is on. I don't think that its talking in local chat AT ALL is the issue. I think that it is a matter of having full out conversations for hours in the lobby that may be their problem.

[Totori]

Well it's not like they hate local chat it's just they hate RUDE manners. I don't play on block 20 much because of what I commonly see, it's horrible the constant spam, and the nasty picture chat.

I really do hope SEGA bans a few players like that, it's against the TOS, if players like that can't act their age in something like a test, I find it a shame that people wasted their time to help these players in the closed beta after all.

It's not even a damned challenge to behave in this game, Japanese players wouldn't be able to tell the difference, like in PSU if you just stay quiet or have common sence, to not do something stupid, you'll be fine.

[Macman]

As someone who hates the spam from NPCs in multi-party areas, I understand the sentiments of keeping the public chat short, sweet and clean.

[Hayde]

That TOS thing has me worried a bit though. I mean, I'm not sure if the JP-only region was involved in the previous installments of PSO and PSU--I was always an importer and I never had problem paying for the game.

It's a nasty thought because you could literally spend hundreds on this game through the cash shop and be banned for simply not being a resident in Japan...

Does anyone know if this specific-TOS statement only applies to Alpha/Beta or is it likely to appear for release as well?

[Polantaris]

That TOS thing has me worried a bit though. I mean, I'm not sure if the JP-only region was involved in the previous installments of PSO and PSU--I was always an importer and I never had problem paying for the game.

It's a nasty thought because you could literally spend hundreds on this game through the cash shop and be banned for simply not being a resident in Japan...

Does anyone know if this specific-TOS statement only applies to Alpha/Beta or is it likely to appear for release as well?

Pretty sure it's in PSU too, as well as many other JP MMOs.

It's really not usually an issue, unless you're a problem. Most companies don't care unless the local players have too many issues with the foreign players, which is very possible if the problems in Block 20 Ship 02 become too big. That's why we stress being respectful of the Japanese culture.

[BIG OLAF]

What exactly does everyone mean when they say "problems" in Block 20? I've yet to see any 'questionable' behavior from anyone save for maybe one or two people.

Some of you are making it sound like all the English players are having drug and alcohol-infested sex orgies all over the place.

[Meena09]

If the Japanese didn't want us in there why would they invite us, it'd be so easy to just boot the players that frequent block 20 that'd destroy a chunk of English-Speaking-players, but no they don't you know why because Sega loves us, and it's good for testing.

up, down, left, right, a, start.

and i was having a drug and alcohol-infested? sex orgy (isn't that redundant), but i do it in the forest like all the other animals.

[Arika]

What exactly does everyone mean when they say "problems" in Block 20? I've yet to see any 'questionable' behavior from anyone save for maybe one or two people.

Some of you are making it sound like all the English players are having drug and alcohol-infested sex orgies all over the place.

I think one of the more often seen problem is what Wayu just said in her/his previous post.

Basically, when you play in another lobby, you won't see this much spam on the lobby. Same to compare between PSU-US and PSU-JP, JP do chat, but not spam, while US do shout a lot and also spam it as if they are having fun by causing people to load their chat.

It may not be a big deal in PSU, but in PSO2 server with all the laggy we already have, adding all the spam chat would make it suffer more so you notice even a lot of English players have been playing in other lobbies often lately.

[Khasar]

I find it a bit frustrating when a few Japanese players are all grouped up together on the floor, dancing and talking etc and I come along to see what's going on.

They see me I wave to them then they start talking to me and dancing and keep talking and I can't reply since I don't talk Japanese. They just carry on or walk off, and I'm standing there like a lemon not been able to speak to them accept in English >_<

[Finalzone]

Just tried to play a quest with a japanese players. I wished I know how write from romanji to kana (I don't know how to do it in the game because of fullscreen mode). A few polite word brought attention. I felt bad for another player because my computer crashed in a middle of the quest =(

[Dagless]

I've reached level 19 already and I don't speak any Japanese but out of the Japanese who can speak English they don't leave me alone. Most were attracted to how my character looks. They would tell me "nice colors!". They ask me questions about America and the games Americans play. They're really interested about CS:GO beta for some reason.. I told them to check out TI :)

They also were obsessed with spreading their pop culture. each one of them felt the need to inform me of hip sayings and the bullshit they were into.

There was one Jap who kept asking me if i was gay, when i said no he started saying everyone in japan is coming out of the closet and he hates it hahaha.

Most came by and added me to friends. I have about 30 Japanese on my friends list.

I think the big thing is don't be pushy. You're basically taking a trip to japan. Be respectful and the ones who can tell what you're saying will like you. We're crashing their party after all.

I'm just happy to be able to play PSO2!

[FerrPSO]

As someone else mentioned in this thread, it's considered rude to carry out a conversation in local chat

Well, that is kinda stupid, and I know some JP people hate it cause I played FFXI for games, but is something that I will never understand of JPs.

This is an online game after all, and online games tend to be social oriented. I can understant theres people who just says stupid things, but I think allowing everyone to talk and make friends is basic in an online game.

Thanks god not all JPs are the same, the first day I was playing there were JPs talking in local chat, dancing with us "westerner" players and even laughting (w) with some of our jokes (the ones that they did understand).
The same could be applied in all my years on FFXI.

I think (after playing this, FFXI and FFXIV) JPs are very splitted in the "comunication with foreigners" thing, some of them really like to have foreigners in their games and talk with the, and some of them they just dont.

The first one will be friendly like the examples above, as long as you dont act stupid and rude.

The later ones ... they dont really care if you speak or not in Local chat, they just dont want you in.

[Vent]

The chat channel you use should be as much restricted as possible. However, a party can only consist of 4, teams don't exist yet and there isn't a chat room option. In a lobby, public chat is the only way to go and I really, really doubt the Japanese people will mind.

They might live on a whole different continent, but they aren't more stupid than Americans or Europeans.

Also, one should take messages on public boards with a grain of salt. It's generally the loudest that are active on them and they are usually also not the brightest. If Sega does not want to risk releasing the game overseas, they do a good job to keep the Japanese server open to the whole world.

[Fayorei]

What exactly does everyone mean when they say "problems" in Block 20? I've yet to see any 'questionable' behavior from anyone save for maybe one or two people.

Some of you are making it sound like all the English players are having drug and alcohol-infested sex orgies all over the place.

BUT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!

Someone shouted "OBJECTION!" in ENGLISH in a lobby. Woe. :P
I've been on during peak times a couple well.. times tonight. The beta is during a bad week for me free-time wise, but eh. The most I've seen are just people discussing where they wanna play "Forest?" and dancing.

I mean, I'm all for being polite if you want to be. But yelling at other people to be is kinda silly and it isn't going to work. Secondly, the testers are now hardly limited to PSO-World- so there's people on there that never touched a JP form of PSO/PSU/PSP. The "official" Facebook group, for example- they're kinda so-so. And just about every gaming forum is in on this now, as well. It's not only silly to try and gatekeep every single player's behavior, but also a nigh impossible task.

Just... in the words of Bill and Ted. Be excellent to one another. People are people, after all.

[aslan_blue]

From what I've seen of #pso2 tags on twitter, Nobody regards foreign players as nuisance.

https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23pso2

[Gama]

on psu jp i usualy kept to myself, and i oftenly used over my name "US-PT" and japanese players would aproach me, some with decent english, others used translators, they were really curious about other countries, i even helped one of them understand english a bit better.

on the darker side i did get kicked out of parties manny times, unless i used my acrotecher, they love acrotechers. lol

[Ryudo]

The chat channel you use should be as much restricted as possible. However, a party can only consist of 4, teams don't exist yet and there isn't a chat room option. In a lobby, public chat is the only way to go and I really, really doubt the Japanese people will mind.
.

teams do exist

[RocSage]

Why are you guys making out like the japanese don't like public chat? Almost every MMO hates on public chat. And I will tell them just what I tell everyone else, "Chat is for chatting." If you don't like chatting, that is your problem, not mine. You can see a different in party formation and help getting when a chat is lively. It's because if you get people following chat they will see the asks for help/party and it will get resolved quicker.

On the other hand, chatting is not the same thing as spam. I see spam all the time and with the ability to make pictures and have them saved I see a lot of vile spam. That annoys me and I will tell them to stop if I see it enough, but generally I just mark they are not worth my time which I think just about everyone does.

[Skyden]

The Main Issue I see, is some Japanese Reacting like the USA Reacts to People From The Outside, on page 1, I saw the situation being called specifically on Brazilians, what I found kind of Hilarious, because it seems like many treat Brazilians like the Plague, yet act just as bad or worse then the Brazilians, and about the language barrier, its equally simple, I will give you a Scenario.

US Player A: Br Player A, can you Understand what I said?

BR Player A: Yes I can, But BR Player B got no idea of what you said.

BR Player B: O que ele falou?(Would be What he said?)(BR Player B Can't write that well in English)

US Player B: Shut the *&%$ up, Start talking in English

BR Player A: BR Player B Doesn't Know English that Well.

US Player B: Then What the Hell is he Doing here, Get the *&%$ out of here.

Then the BR Players, start to speak in Portuguese, more to annoy the US Player B then anything else.

More often then not, Players from Brazil, either Don't Know english that well, because it ISN'T THE MAIN LANGUAGE OF BRAZIL(Sorry if the caps look offensive, but seems some people need it a bit bigger to understand), and the English Classes on Brazil in schools(Private or Public) is horrible at best, so either you learn by yourself(Rare nowadays), or Learn at a English Language School, what not everyone has the Money to pay for, so when a BR Player says something in Portuguese, Instead of Raging out, try asking politely what he/she meant, and most probably, the BR in question, will try to type it in english(Sometimes makes even less sense then in Portuguese, but they tried)

So if the English Speaking Community is seen as the Baka Gaijin as someone said earlier, we actually deserve it, because we also react that way.

[Macman]

I wonder if anyone knows you can filter out public chat...

[Brindizer]

It sounds like we need WORD SELECT.

> Everybody


Edit: A word select feature would also play nicely with the upcoming Vita version.

[Gama]

The Main Issue I see, is some Japanese Reacting like the USA Reacts to People From The Outside, on page 1, I saw the situation being called specifically on Brazilians, what I found kind of Hilarious, because it seems like many treat Brazilians like the Plague, yet act just as bad or worse then the Brazilians, and about the language barrier, its equally simple, I will give you a Scenario.

US Player A: Br Player A, can you Understand what I said?

BR Player A: Yes I can, But BR Player B got no idea of what you said.

BR Player B: O que ele falou?(Would be What he said?)(BR Player B Can't write that well in English)

US Player B: Shut the *&%$ up, Start talking in English

BR Player A: BR Player B Doesn't Know English that Well.

US Player B: Then What the Hell is he Doing here, Get the *&%$ out of here.

Then the BR Players, start to speak in Portuguese, more to annoy the US Player B then anything else.

More often then not, Players from Brazil, either Don't Know english that well, because it ISN'T THE MAIN LANGUAGE OF BRAZIL(Sorry if the caps look offensive, but seems some people need it a bit bigger to understand), and the English Classes on Brazil in schools(Private or Public) is horrible at best, so either you learn by yourself(Rare nowadays), or Learn at a English Language School, what not everyone has the Money to pay for, so when a BR Player says something in Portuguese, Instead of Raging out, try asking politely what he/she meant, and most probably, the BR in question, will try to type it in english(Sometimes makes even less sense then in Portuguese, but they tried)

So if the English Speaking Community is seen as the Baka Gaijin as someone said earlier, we actually deserve it, because we also react that way.



being portuguese, from portugal, i usually only find pre teen Brazilian players annoying, mostly because they're rude and because they act as if i by speaking portuguese must give them free stuff, as if i owe them something. but that you can find in any other language, the problem is bad manners in its whole, we must educate the kids for pleasant gameplay.

that should solve most issues...

create a pso2 etiquete topic? maybe?

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19232194.jpg

[Sixoul]

Sega already knows about all us from Europe and America. If we were really a problem on the servers they would have banned us already. They haven't yet. Even if the foreigners, us, didn't make it in there would have been enough natives to replace us which then would be even worst lag since then everyone would be on at the same time instead of throughout the whole day. Basically I'm saying the lag would be worst from more japanese on at the same time instead of americans on at their night time and japanese on at their day time.

I always wondered what japanese input on foreigners being in their game, killing their bandwidth would be.

[ryoko227]

I suppose I might have an interesting insight into this topic as I am a foreigner currently living in Japan.

For the most part I haven't even seen any server lag. Prime time here, or even after midnight. The only lag issues I've had is when my cell router decides it want's to take a break ;P

As for the few Japanese I've talked with in game, most didn't even know people outside of Japan were even playing. And of those, (as someone already stated) they were filled mostly with questions about the countries in question and legitimately just wanted to get to know more about it.

That being said, I have yet to come across a 2ch otaku type who thinks Japan is Japanese only. I'm sure one is hiding in the wood work, but I personally haven't seen it.



tl:dr - they don't care that you are here, most haven't noticed. Those that do, will probably try to get to know you. Don't cause problems and all should be alright :)

It's a different culture, and a vastly different mindset that goes WAY beyond just a simple difference in language.

[Gama]

i wish the japanese culture bled more into other cultures sometimes.

[Xaton]

shoot i wish there was a auto translator when typing if switch it on. like that katakana board thing if you start typeing in it and follow sylables it switches into kana.

[Rauten]

They really, really should bring back Word Select. It wasn't perfect but I'll be damned if it didn't manage to get the job done.

[Cranberry]

Looking at the thread using google translator, I'm glad to see it wasn't totally 1-sided. A lof ot them seem to be quoting the TOS that claims you need to live in Japan (a valid point actually, based on the letter of the law) but there's also some that seem to be defending the foreign players too.

If we behave ourselves we'll probably be fine. The people setting off obscene symbol chats in the lobby worries me though. It only takes a few bad apples to spoil the whole bunch.

[kyuuketsuki]

The TOS thing is really just to cover SEGA's butt. They can't offer support for people having issues outside of the intended audience. They aren't going to go after anybody for it unless they really make a nuisance of themselves... And I'm all for those people getting banned anyway.

I actually have moved to block 21 for a couple reasons: first, 20 is often full. But secondly, I find the spam, conversations, and stupid symbol art going on in the lobby incredibly annoying, and it's not hard to see why people from a culture where not making a nuisance of yourself is considered a big deal might frown upon it. I don't understand why people who want to just hang out and chat don't move to the city area at least, or use party/team/whisper chat so bystanders don't have to have their crap popping up on their screens constantly.

[RahvinWT]

Funny this was brought up, I brought up this very question in the community chat on saturday. I really dislike the people displaying the horrendous symbol chat, I'm glad it was brought back and all but at the same time.....i really wish it weren't there to be abused.

[FerrPSO]

I think the problem is just the "bubble" conversations.

In other MMO, for example FFXI (for saying one shared with japanese and foreigners) the conversations are plain text in the chat box. But here we have also bubbles poping everywhere and even with sound, is not as easy to ignore. That makes for a direct chat social conversation more annoying for the people who is not interested in the direct chat.

That is not a problem of the direct chat though, just the way talking is in the game.

[Xaton]

The TOS thing is really just to cover SEGA's butt. They can't offer support for people having issues outside of the intended audience. They aren't going to go after anybody for it unless they really make a nuisance of themselves... And I'm all for those people getting banned anyway.

I actually have moved to block 21 for a couple reasons: first, 20 is often full. But secondly, I find the spam, conversations, and stupid symbol art going on in the lobby incredibly annoying, and it's not hard to see why people from a culture where not making a nuisance of yourself is considered a big deal might frown upon it. I don't understand why people who want to just hang out and chat don't move to the city area at least, or use party/team/whisper chat so bystanders don't have to have their crap popping up on their screens constantly.

i dont think its aginst makeing fool of your self but more ther eis time and place for everything type thing. makeing fool of self in public area or like in say AVATAR last airbender zuko talked out fo turn and wam. type thing. time place for everything.

[Finalzone]

I think the problem is just the "bubble" conversations.

In other MMO, for example FFXI (for saying one shared with japanese and foreigners) the conversations are plain text in the chat box. But here we have also bubbles poping everywhere and even with sound, is not as easy to ignore. That makes for a direct chat social conversation more annoying for the people who is not interested in the direct chat.

That is not a problem of the direct chat though, just the way talking is in the game.

You can disable public chat in the game.

[RahvinWT]

You can disable public chat in the game.


Yes you can disable public chat but I don't think isolation is the answer for a lot of people simply because we like to interact with one another.

Being IP blocked on account of a few immature players though... kind of a tough call seeing that we are the ones invading their servers. (Which has been stated already)

I don't have an answer myself but I do agree it isn't fair for everyone else that's actually behaving themselves.

[LiquidFriend]

After dealing with the JP community in FFXI, I honestly don't really care for most of them. So the feeling is mutual.

[Keirebu]

I think they just really hate the fact that most of us stand in lobbys talking rubbish.

one of them quoted " Pieces of trash, just standing around doing nothing all the time. then further on past the unreadable kanji. something along the lines of go die and www.

So i'm guessing it can't be good at all times, besides it's just the simple case of culture clashing west and east. It's not like we sit there and pick out their faults like being very unsociable at times etc.

[sugarFO]

After dealing with the JP community in FFXI, I honestly don't really care for most of them. So the feeling is mutual.

I'm not eager to be walking on eggshells. I'm not a trouble maker or a spammer, but in JP PSU ugh. Japanese would tell me not to talk in English in public. WTH? I'm talking to other English speakers and get whispers telling me to stop. Yeah right. I don't care what language you are speaking really. If you're not involved then why does it bother you ya know?

If they're sooo upset by anything other than US players being silent, then fuck em.

[Syphio]

Well, from what I understand, Japanese are somewhat racist, as in "social darwinists" (as in they believe to be superior to other races and do not accept things lightly that are not from their own society).

Ie: In US-side, RPG's and things alike are accepted and have their fame and fandom, whilst Japanese adress the FPS like CoD and BF3 as "western dog shit". It's true that most people on US would look at you strange if you start talking about RPG's, but JP people.. they're really blunt and straight-foward about it. (Hence why the XBox 360 failed in Japan, not being a Japanese product and not having enough Japanese games and such)

Personally, I dont mind JP people, I just honestly wished I could understand them. I do not resent them at all, there is no reason really, and doing so is childish. Though to a certain degree they have the right to state that "it's their game," but doesn't mean that they have the right to simply boot us out just because, again, that's both childish and uberly selfish.

Shame really, I find Japanese culture fasinating.

[DemonMike]

All the Japanese I've encountered seem to be pretty friendly, then again I do make an effort to speak to them despite my very limited Japanese skills.

Is there a shortcut word feature in PSO2? If so, I definitely recommend setting one of them to be 'Sorry, I don't understand Japanese' so they know you're not being rude. This is supposed to be a test for Japanese residents only if you remember correctly =P

[kyuuketsuki]

Well, from what I understand, Japanese are somewhat racist, as in "social darwinists" (as in they believe to be superior to other races and do not accept things lightly that are not from their own society).
This is wrong. Also, your definition of social darwinism is wrong. The Japanese are people, just like anyone else; some of them aren't tolerant at all of things outside their cultural boundaries, some love things outside their cultural boundaries, and most fall somewhere in the middle. Picking out the ones being unfriendly towards foreign players and holding them up as the model for all Japanese everywhere while ignoring the ones that defend us foreigners (and the majority that don't care about all the bullshit and just want to play the game) is as ridiculous, if not more so, than the not-nearly-as-prevalent-as-people-pretend mindless xenophobia people are getting upset about.

[Sir Green Aluminum]

Yeah, playing FFXI and seeing JP only (JP onry) parties and players should be a sign of how they feel. Racism is there and it kind of makes me wonder if there's going to be a segregated server. There was that "Global support" thing in the old trailers, but who knows what that means.
As a reference, here is a real world examples of JP ONRY:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Japanese_only_sign.jpg
Some baths, restaurants and night clubs don't allow foreigners in. Even if you do speak Japanese. This is a pic from a bath.

[Rauten]

Japanese would tell me not to talk in English in public. WTH? I'm talking to other English speakers and get whispers telling me to stop. Yeah right. I don't care what language you are speaking really. If you're not involved then why does it bother you ya know?

Because involved or not, since you're speaking in a public chat channel, you're forcing your conversation into their screens, in a language that's alien for most of them, in a JP server, not an international one, whether they like it or not.
I have to agree with them on that one, because, quite honestly, that's being kinda rude.

[Alex305!]

Most of experiences with JP players were pleasant. Also I don't go around judging people. From spending the time and reading every response in this thread I think people here are getting defensive and some being rational.

I had most good and some bad but never out of hand. However I had more problems with the US players that try to make us look like criminals against the Japanese. I don't care If you studied JP culture.

The Japanese have different rules and playing on their servers we don't want to become the BR's of japan. So follow the basic etiquette or do what I do just avoid joining parties or talking. I usually make a party typing up a Japanese phrase in the description along the lines of "everybody welcome I don't speak Japanese, sorry..." Very few join but they are nice.

[RocSage]

Most of experiences with JP players were pleasant. Also I don't go around judging people. From spending the time and reading every response in this thread I think people here are getting defensive and some being rational.

I had most good and some bad but never out of hand. However I had more problems with the US players that try to make us look like criminals against the Japanese. I don't care If you studied JP culture.

The Japanese have different rules and playing on their servers we don't want to become the BR's of japan. So follow the basic etiquette or do what I do just avoid joining parties or talking. I usually make a party typing up a Japanese phrase in the description along the lines of "everybody welcome I don't speak Japanese, sorry..." Very few join but they are nice.

Wow that makes you sound like a racist. "Don't be like the Brazilians."

Look, it's simple. I will say what I want, when I want, however I want. I don't accept cultural or any dogmatic belief or action unless you can explain to me why I should do it logically and practically. If you want me to shut up, explain to me why, and if I agree I will, but if I don't I won't. If you have no reason then perhaps you should rethink what you think people should act like.

Suggesting that you should just act like the people where you are or not be there is incredibly naive and ignorant to how the world is advancing and has advanced over the course of human history. We are continuously advancing into a global culture and as such, when cultures meet some aspects of one will be better and some of the other will be better (usually) and in the end a single culture of both will emerge. However if you keep this from happening by being racist, xenophobic, or just taking on the ideals of a culture while in it, then you are keeping progress from happening. Also by doing that you are admitting that you are inferior and they are superior. I much prefer to look at everyone as equal or when I come across something superior I will adopt it as my own in full, not just because it is "polite"

[LK1721]

Generally I've been met with very nice JP players. If you're polite (even using broken Japanese) they will usually be nice and maybe even switch to using English. Be polite as you should with any other players and essentially I've found they don't really mind.

[Alex305!]

Wow that makes you sound like a racist. "Don't be like the Brazilians."

Look, it's simple. I will say what I want, when I want, however I want. I don't accept cultural or any dogmatic belief or action unless you can explain to me why I should do it logically and practically. If you want me to shut up, explain to me why, and if I agree I will, but if I don't I won't. If you have no reason then perhaps you should rethink what you think people should act like.

Suggesting that you should just act like the people where you are or not be there is incredibly naive and ignorant to how the world is advancing and has advanced over the course of human history. We are continuously advancing into a global culture and as such, when cultures meet some aspects of one will be better and some of the other will be better (usually) and in the end a single culture of both will emerge. However if you keep this from happening by being racist, xenophobic, or just taking on the ideals of a culture while in it, then you are keeping progress from happening. Also by doing that you are admitting that you are inferior and they are superior. I much prefer to look at everyone as equal or when I come across something superior I will adopt it as my own in full, not just because it is "polite"

So much wat in this post.

BR's have given them selves their bad name. My best friend in a MMO (FLYFF pay2win trash) was Brazilian and we used to make fun of the situation not all Brazilians are bad but their reputation is forever tarnished. Denying this is naive and I'm wondering how dense do you have to be to assume I am racist for using this as an example.

I would advise you to read what you posted again and imagine if you were to put your ideals into visiting someones home in another country.

lol...human history.

[RocSage]

So much wat in this post.

BR's have given them selves their bad name. My best friend in a MMO (FLYFF pay2win trash) was Brazilian and we used to make fun of the situation not all Brazilians are bad but their reputation is forever tarnished. Denying this is naive and I'm wondering how dense do you have to be to assume I am racist for using this as an example.

I would advise you to read what you posted again and imagine if you were to put your ideals into visiting someones home in another country.

lol...human history.

I judge everyone based on my interactions with them. Not by what others tell me. You know what treating people based on a reputation is called? It's called bigotry and when we're talking in these terms it is Racism. I could judge you as a racist based on the "my best friend is a ..." stereo type or I could not and instead tell you to learn that when someone says you sound like something it doesn't mean they think you are.

I will not act Roman when I'm in Rome because I am not Roman and don't think their ways are best. Likewise just because I am American doesn't mean that I accept all of the American culture. I take what I think is the best and if you disagree talk with me about it and try to convince me. It's amazing that with my attitude that you and others might bad I've never had a problem with all the Chinese Gold Farmers, Japanese Only groups, or "the Brazilians" that so many people seem to have a problem with

[Link1275]

Likewise just because I am American doesn't mean that I accept all of the American culture.

Last time I checked there wasn't an "American Culture" just a variety of different cultures jumbled into the majority of NA. SO which culture are you referring to? Let's see there's the Chinese-American, Polish-American, Danish-American, German-American, Italian-American, Italian Mafia(it deserves to be considered a culture too), Native American(a ton of different variations on that as well), Hispanic-American, and many more that I can't think of, oh and the reason why the most of them are called xxxxxx-American is that they have changed from their original culture for reasons such as laws and accepting parts of other cultures.

[SolRiver]

I remember back in the day, Japanese player already dislike non-japanese to begin with in PSO.

I did meet a few nice open-minded ones as well. Over the year of understanding more about Japanese culture (from friends, cousin, etc), Japanese that doesn't live in Japan are quite often disliked once they are found out in their home country.

I don't even know if this is racism. However, the question really would be, "how different are xenophobia and racism?" etc.

Speaking of xenophobia... South Korea isn't any better (from what I heard it is worst... but I haven't personally experienced it) http://www.menafn.com/menafn/qn_news_story.aspx?storyid={2b11a791-6d09-4eb8-bb85-08fdd83c326c (don't know if south korean law are more favorable to foreigner than japan's)

Of all the countries I been to, USA is probably the most kind country toward foreigner. (even though there are still many problems yet to be dealt with)

[RocSage]

Last time I checked there wasn't an "American Culture" just a variety of different cultures jumbled into the majority of NA. SO which culture are you referring to? Let's see there's the Chinese-American, Polish-American, Danish-American, German-American, Italian-American, Italian Mafia(it deserves to be considered a culture too), Native American(a ton of different variations on that as well), Hispanic-American, and many more that I can't think of, oh and the reason why the most of them are called xxxxxx-American is that they have changed from their original culture for reasons such as laws and accepting parts of other cultures.

The idea of "hyphenated" americans is against the whole idea of america to begin with even if i viewed myself as 100% accepting of that culture. Anyone who says I'm Something-American is a twit and deserves to admonished for calling themself that. There is a quote that i forget at the moment about that nonsense.

I used american, because it jumps out at me right away to use due to america's place on earth, and not because I'm american.

Personally, I only use the american descriptor to apply to myself to describe a general geographical location in which i was born and not the culture or governmental structure i adhere to.

[Syphio]

This is wrong. Also, your definition of social darwinism is wrong. The Japanese are people, just like anyone else; some of them aren't tolerant at all of things outside their cultural boundaries, some love things outside their cultural boundaries, and most fall somewhere in the middle. Picking out the ones being unfriendly towards foreign players and holding them up as the model for all Japanese everywhere while ignoring the ones that defend us foreigners (and the majority that don't care about all the bullshit and just want to play the game) is as ridiculous, if not more so, than the not-nearly-as-prevalent-as-people-pretend mindless xenophobia people are getting upset about.

uMad bro? Geez, take it easy, I never said ALL Japanese are racist, I ment it as a general spectrum. I think what you understood from me is something in the lines of "since they are black people, they are bad," and this was never what I ment.
Also, the concept of Social Darwinism was a general concept (and i'm not going into details regarding the matter, it's not the aim of the topic), and so was the racism. Overall, arent people around the world racist and things alike?

So let me take this moment to clarify this:
What I ment on my post is that Japanese people dont tend to embraze things from the outside that easily (XBox 360 'n stuff), they mostly stick with asian-ish things, and when they express dislike over something, it usually ends up as hate. A portion of them also like stuff from our side of the world, just like how I world in a randomly-alocated 3rd-world-country and like Japanese things, and people think I'm retarded for liking it. Nontheless, you are right that there are Japanese that simply dont mind it and are preety open, and such, but I never said otherwise.

To sum it up, they usually dont like things outside of Japan, period. Anythig outside usually is more likely to be disliked than liked, FACT. I could name some examples if you'd like.

PS: No need to be rude. ^^

[Macman]

As a reference, here is a real world examples of JP ONRY:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Japanese_only_sign.jpg
Some baths, restaurants and night clubs don't allow foreigners in. Even if you do speak Japanese. This is a pic from a bath.They got some serious balls to do things like that. Can you imagine how many lawsuits would be thrown around if there was something similar to that in the US?

[Spellbinder]

Yeah, playing FFXI and seeing JP only (JP onry) parties and players should be a sign of how they feel. Racism is there and it kind of makes me wonder if there's going to be a segregated server. There was that "Global support" thing in the old trailers, but who knows what that means.
As a reference, here is a real world examples of JP ONRY:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Japanese_only_sign.jpg
Some baths, restaurants and night clubs don't allow foreigners in. Even if you do speak Japanese. This is a pic from a bath.

Having played FFXI and having joined many of those "JP only" parties, I'd have to say the reason for the "JP Only" in FFXI (which has been debated and discussed to death in more forums than I'd care to count) and that example of a Japanese Only sign in Japan are on two totally different levels and don't deserve to be compared.

Edit:

I just saw where that picture came from. If that's the guy I think it is, he's pretty much made it his life mission to seek out these types of discriminatory things in Japan that you normally wouldn't see unless you're actively looking for it.

And if I'm not mistaken, the reason behind the banning of foreigners in that particular Onsen had to do with members of the Russian mafia that would frequent the place, or something along those lines. An unfortunate case of bad apples spoiling it for the bunch because of some narrow minded (and probably old) Japanese management that shouldn't be taken seriously as an example of typical life in Japan.

I live here, and I know there's a fair bit of discrimination against foreigners here. But I've never seen anything like that before and probably won't because I don't go searching for it like he does.

[Konflyk]

If you have Obama swag, you're OK in Japan. Also most of PSOw is cool, just behave like your parents taught you, I'm sure nothing will come bad of that, unless you have no manners, then keep shut.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/24/opinion/tokyo-postcard/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

[FerrPSO]

About the JP Parties of FFXI, I can understan them. Because you are playing with a team, is very important for all members to understand each other, you are cooperating together, so I understand they want everyone in the team to be bale to talk.

Its not in the same league as the direct chat, where no one gives a damn on what about 2 or more people are talking.
I have saw a lot of JP talking in direct chat in PSO, FFXI, and FFXIV, and I just don care, they can do whatever they want, that is for what was done direct chat. I dont understant why they should care the other way around.

[HeartBreak301]

Coming from everyone's favorite screwed PSO private server I'm used to seeing text from people all over the globe. It's not that big of an issue but of course some people just need to start fights telling foreigners to get the hell out of the lobby, although from my experiences it's a rarity and just bad trolls when it does occur. It's never really been impeding to see a chat bubble in Spanish or Japanese or whatever language from time to time so I really don't see why they're making such a big deal out of seeing English from time to time.

Oh well, I guess we just live in a time where everyone has a stick up their ass.

[RocSage]

About the JP Parties of FFXI, I can understan them. Because you are playing with a team, is very important for all members to understand each other, you are cooperating together, so I understand they want everyone in the team to be bale to talk.

Its not in the same league as the direct chat, where no one gives a damn on what about 2 or more people are talking.
I have saw a lot of JP talking in direct chat in PSO, FFXI, and FFXIV, and I just don care, they can do whatever they want, that is for what was done direct chat. I dont understant why they should care the other way around.

The "JP Only" thing in FFXI from what I saw and understood had very little or nothing to do with xenophobia or racism. There are a few cases where that it was the case that it was a racism thing, but for most, the reason they were "JP Only" is because of the differences of how westerners play and how the japanese play. The way of thinking is different and that being the case it would prove very frustrating for them. Westerners largely only carry supplies for themselves where as the japanese carry stuff for the team. Westerners often will leave unexpectedly or if a party is forming too slowly where as most of the time the japanese will not. Most Westerner parties refuse to go in some places because they feel they are too hard where as japanese parties found go there often and thrive. Japanese parties pretty much work as a machine in a cycle of warm-up, maintain, cool down, rest and recover where as most western parties tend to go either 1-60 in one fight and try to hold out forever or do something like fight once then rest.

The styles are different and it just happens that those differences are more frustrating to the japanese side. So overall, it's more of a preventative for all the hate that FFXI generates through that party system and just looks racist when it is more a summerization of play style.

[Alex305!]

I judge everyone based on my interactions with them. Not by what others tell me. You know what treating people based on a reputation is called? It's called bigotry and when we're talking in these terms it is Racism. I could judge you as a racist based on the "my best friend is a ..." stereo type or I could not and instead tell you to learn that when someone says you sound like something it doesn't mean they think you are.

I will not act Roman when I'm in Rome because I am not Roman and don't think their ways are best. Likewise just because I am American doesn't mean that I accept all of the American culture. I take what I think is the best and if you disagree talk with me about it and try to convince me. It's amazing that with my attitude that you and others might bad I've never had a problem with all the Chinese Gold Farmers, Japanese Only groups, or "the Brazilians" that so many people seem to have a problem with

I never said I treat people based on rep. I said we don't want to have similar rep in the JP eyes. In a way "I was slipping on the my best friend was a..." defense. However this was in no way in defense to racism. You just implied that because I said BR's in MMOs had a bad rep. He was a cool guy too. He spoke better than most Americans. Capitals,good spelling,punctuation everything. I spent my time explaining in my post briefly saying I don't judge.

Also that is not the definition of bigotry.

Racist against people never met?...

Just be on your best behavior man that's it. If you want to do what you want fine. Just do go around shoving what you do into other players faces. If you're chatting it up in the lobby would it not make sense to keep chatting on it would you get a messenger contact or a VOIP program to chat more efficiently? If a party says no forces and you join not a force do you still think its acceptable doing what you want. This is not a cultural thing its an enjoyment thing. Sometimes it becomes stressful dealing with someone who is doing wrong and they can't tell you what you are actually doing wrong.

At the end of the day its on you we can't force you to do anything. However if the Japanese minority who do not want foreigners are vocal enough sega will listen. The only reason PSU was safe because the player base was not as large.

[FerrPSO]

The "JP Only" thing in FFXI from what I saw and understood had very little or nothing to do with xenophobia or racism. There are a few cases where that it was the case that it was a racism thing, but for most, the reason they were "JP Only" is because of the differences of how westerners play and how the japanese play

Yeah, thats another case, although it is a bit of a generalization of how westerners play and wast always true, but anyways thats not the point, the point I was trying to say, as you pointed out, is that was not a case of racism

[Cyrusnagisa]

I never had a problem with Japanese people in FFXI/FFXIV or PSU on 360. I do have a problem with all these little morons spamming symbol chat... I don't care where you are from, its annoying -.-

[ryoko227]

I've never seen anything like that before and probably won't because I don't go searching for it like he does.

I couldn't agree more. While I know such places do exist here, I have never myself run across such a place. Nor do I believe I would ever run into such a place. But, then again... I also don't frequent Japanese bath houses ^^; lol Joking aside though, if you did come across such a place, it probably isn't a place you would want to be anyways (and I don't mean because of the sign.)

[Ce'Nedra]

I think the fact some Japanese players like Spellbinder en ryoko227, are even visiting PSO-World and speak english on here means there are Japanese people who like to play with Forgeingers. Also its not just Japan who does it, i've been playing alot on French servers of a old FPS and they instantly ban you if you speak anything else but french. At least Japanese are kind enough to let you play and such and most of them don't mind from my little expierences.

There are always people who don't like forgeingers in every country in the world, and its just a group of people, not everyone. I think it's silly to state everyone in Japan is a racist because of a group of people. Everyone is diffrent.

[Spellbinder]

Oh, for the record I'm not Japanese. ^^; But I do live in Japan and speak the language.

[Ce'Nedra]

Fair enough.

Teach me how to read some D;

[ryoko227]

Same as Spellbinder, though my Japanese language skills are terrible :P

[Sachiko-K]

My experience with the Japanese players is quite limited since I have mostly kept to myself or played with groups of friends who were accepted into the beta, but the few Japanese I met didn't seem to mind me. They stayed silent during most of the questing, then after some quests they said thank you and walked away. A few even gave me a Good Job or two.

It has already been said, but it is worth repeating, I think. There are stupid people everywhere, and while they tend to be very vocal, they seem to be a minority. Most don't give a damn.

[sugarFO]

Because involved or not, since you're speaking in a public chat channel, you're forcing your conversation into their screens, in a language that's alien for most of them, in a JP server, not an international one, whether they like it or not.
I have to agree with them on that one, because, quite honestly, that's being kinda rude.

So you feel it's rude when you are on an English MMO for people to speak anythiing other than English? Except I'm suuure you don't mind Japanese people speaking in public, because they're just so kawaii desu right?

[Rauten]

So you feel it's rude when you are on an English MMO for people to speak anythiing other than English? Except I'm suuure you don't mind Japanese people speaking in public, because they're just so kawaii desu right?

I'm from Spain, and I find it rude when a fellow Spanish speaks in Spanish in an English public chat. I think that answers your question.

Also, the only game, in my limited experience, where I've seen Japanese people speaking in Japanese in public chat, in a server that isn't JP-only, was FFXI, but those were international servers, so everything goes there.

[NoiseHERO]

Hey, I hate everyone in the world equally, but I at least try to give people a chance, both you guys AND some japanese players can drop that prejudice way of thinking!

I do get ignored a lot though, but it probably does help that I play on blocks with the least amount of people, where most of the people there would probably want to avoid large groups in general...

I don't get that one comment someone said earlier about being annoyed of a bunch of US players doing nothing in the lobby all day, I've seen them do it all the time, spamming that one sexy(PSHT) dance. They even join in, when you're doing it yourself. D:

[FerrPSO]

I'm from Spain, and I find it rude when a fellow Spanish speaks in Spanish in an English public chat. I think that answers your question.

Also, the only game, in my limited experience, where I've seen Japanese people speaking in Japanese in public chat, in a server that isn't JP-only, was FFXI, but those were international servers, so everything goes there.

I dont see why its rude. If it was an exclusive english server then it would be different, but in an international server, I think everyone is free to talk in the language they want. Not everyone knows english, so I think is fair if they speak in their language, as long as they dont spam and disturb other people.

Oh, and Im spanish too :p but dont worry, I tend to speak in english, even if my english is not perfect, because I understant more people will understand me, but I would have no problem speaking in spanish in direct chat, obviously without spamming...

[Zyrusticae]

Well, that's the issue here. We AREN'T talking about international servers. FFXI/XIV and the original PSO are exceptions to the rule - most online games do localized server configurations, so some level of acculturation is to be expected.

Any MMO with NA servers are to be expected to be English-based (with maybe a hint of Spanish/Portuguese due to proximity). By the same token, it's not unreasonable for JP players to expect people to speak JP on what is most definitely a JP server, what with it being located in Japan and being a closed beta requiring registration through a Japanese website with a Japanese captcha.

You should at least make the effort to try to blend in, even if only minimally and even if you have to repeat the phrases "sumimasen, watashi no nihongo wa chotto..." and "eigo ga wakarimasu ka?" more often than you would like. It's not like it's terribly difficult to learn a few basic phrases. Personally, I just avoid all interaction with others if I can't even communicate with them - better to avoid the inevitable tension than to force it upon myself.

[Xenobia]

What have to be clearly stated: We arnt causing problems to theyr servers. nope. Because we have different time zone, we cause different rush hours. Usualy the time the server is going down is when the JP people are rushing it... thats the fun of it. But the hardliners still make outsiders responsible for, they just want to find a reason.

On the other hand, there is just as much JP who dont care outsider such as those who do care. There is no standart answer to this issue.

Most important for outsiders is always to behave nice and always to welcome any JP who wish to participate... I found many outsiders using very cruel words in lobby... i dont tell its exact content (i could get banned for telling it), i just can say that i feel ashamed and it certainly can cause unnecessary problems. JP culture is totaly different and its a pretty big shock for many of them.

Its not even about language barrier but simply to behave in a friendly and respectful way, dont use slang and what else in a open chat, thats unwanted.

[Sachiko-K]

I'm from Spain, and I find it rude when a fellow Spanish speaks in Spanish in an English public chat. I think that answers your question.

Also, the only game, in my limited experience, where I've seen Japanese people speaking in Japanese in public chat, in a server that isn't JP-only, was FFXI, but those were international servers, so everything goes there.

I have to admit that the same happens to me. I am Spanish. I frequent some English speaking forums and similar stuff, and when I see a Spanish written comment there, it annoys me a bit because I can't help but think that some people may feel annoyed due to not being able to understand what the comment says.

It's the main reason why I stay silent when Japanese people decide to form a party with me and there are no English speakers around. Better not to say anything than saying something that people may interpret wrongly.

[Xenobia]

From my experience, a huge amount of JP does understand some simplified basic english. In a party there is always one of them able to understand and is able to translate for the others. The main issue is just not to act rude and try to keep it clear and simple. Personally i dont feel great by "hiding" it from them, its just not how i do handle it. However, as long as there is no necessary communications, there is no need to use, and simply try to give a good battle.

[RocSage]

Well, that's the issue here. We AREN'T talking about international servers. FFXI/XIV and the original PSO are exceptions to the rule - most online games do localized server configurations, so some level of acculturation is to be expected.

Any MMO with NA servers are to be expected to be English-based (with maybe a hint of Spanish/Portuguese due to proximity). By the same token, it's not unreasonable for JP players to expect people to speak JP on what is most definitely a JP server, what with it being located in Japan and being a closed beta requiring registration through a Japanese website with a Japanese captcha.

You should at least make the effort to try to blend in, even if only minimally and even if you have to repeat the phrases "sumimasen, watashi no nihongo wa chotto..." and "eigo ga wakarimasu ka?" more often than you would like. It's not like it's terribly difficult to learn a few basic phrases. Personally, I just avoid all interaction with others if I can't even communicate with them - better to avoid the inevitable tension than to force it upon myself.

What you are saying about blending in is wrong.
It is rude to speak another language than the majority when you can help it because 2 things.
#1. You can speak the majority language
#2. You are in an area where it is assumed that anything you say should be for everyone.

The usage of a different language, when you can't help it, is considered rude because when those 2 things are the case it is assumed that you are being deceptive, saying something nasty, or causing interference with "me" hearing/speaking without "me" being able to benefit from what you are saying.

As I pointed out earlier, doing something to just blend in is dumb and you shouldn't do it and this partly why. We think it's rude to speak in a different language for the reasons above innately, but because many people just don't think about it and don't have to deal with it often so they likely heard other people say its rude and so they take it as rude without knowing why. This then causes self righteousness later on because now they just find someone talking in a different language around them in "their" forum as rude.

In this case it is not a matter of forum, but the matter majority and ability. If a japanese person comes into Ship 2 block 20 i should be expected that they try to speak English in the public channel if they can because that is what everyone else is speaking. It doesn't matter that the server and game is jaanese. it matters that the people around you are speaking in a certain language, because it is assumed if you are speaking in the public channel you want to speak to everyone and most people are speaking English in Ship 2 Block 20.

And remember the if you can part. We naturally react differently to someone who can but won't versus someone who can't but will try. Often times someone will step in as a translator when you try, but if you can but don't you'll usually get scorned.


This is also somewhat why it is okay for americans to hate on other countries and say they are arrogant because it is a common thing for other countries to Learn English yet refuse to speak it, where as our education system deprives us of learning languages properly and we as individuals can't help that. And that is why the hatred towards americans in "general' from other countries isn't appropriate. Our disdain occurs on an individual basis and that's where it should be generally when it comes to this type of thing where as the disdain others have for us is directed at individuals, but it's a non-individual problem that each person really can't do anything about.

I don't know who here has actually had to deal with this in real life, but it is extremely aggravating to hear someone speak a different language when both parties can speak the majority language fluently. Even more so when they are told not to do it and explained to why they shouldn't. I had to deal with a few groups that did that when I went to High School with Lebonese? speaking students.

From what I know Spanish speaking people do that in the more southern regions of the US. I know the French Canadians do it as well.

So in the end, it's rude and annoying, but every group has people that do it to other people and it's not a Brazilian thing or an English speaker thing or a Japanese thing to hate. It's just you have to understand why it's annoying and then not do it... which could come off if you twisted what I'm saying as me saying that you shouldn't learn another language because then you'll be expected to speak it, but I'm not.

I'm also condemning both sides. It is not right to tell someone to speak a language or leave if they don't know it, especially if you know their language. The proper course of action is to help them or ignore them, but not berate them which is a lot of what I'm hearing people do.


Also.. The Japanese. I never felt a Japanese person but if you can go by Koreans they must be squishy!

[Finalzone]

I played with japanese players who appreciated my politeness and my effort to communicate with them with my broken japanese. The common goal was to have fun without alienating each other. At the end, it is all about individual behaviour regardless the culture.
As said, that is my last post on this thread.

[Xenobia]

Being polite always works, broken japanese or good english, that doesnt matter.

[HeartBreak301]

From what I've read in this thread so far, it seems to matter a lot.

[Skyly]

Can someone direct me to a jp pso2 forum?

[Reia]

I don't think this should be a worry. The Japanese are not dumb except those who complain we should be off based on theories clinged with no actual proof. The truth is, most Japanese already know Ship-2 Block 20 is like our little personal space, and they move to other places instead. I saw some 2ch threads about it and just say that if you don't like, don't go to Block 20 and be glad "they stayed there didn't spread everywhere messing the parties". In other ships most EN players avoid more contact with the Japanese than what they seem to be avoiding us, locking the rooms and setting passwords. Don't worry at all, SEGA won't listen to this minority demand.

But! That doesn't mean most of you guys can act unpolite or go around trolling! Japanese respects manners above language barrier! They don't complain of us not doing properly our jobs in the missions but our lack of behaviour.

[Kazzi]

Can someone direct me to a jp pso2 forum?

They're talking on the PSO2 CBT site's BBS. That's the best place to go for them at the moment, I can't think of any forums off the top of my head.

My Japanese is nothing short of awful, but the JP players I have partied with have found my broken Japanese to be adorable (not sure if that is a compliment or not D:), and much prefer it instead of being with someone who is entirely silent.

[NoiseHERO]

If you guys need 15 pages of walls of text just to bicker about whether or not it's okay so speak whatever language you want wherever you want because uptight mindsets make the way someone communicates SOOOOO damn important.

No wonder everyone in the world hates each other.

[Skyly]

They're talking on the PSO2 CBT site's BBS. That's the best place to go for them at the moment, I can't think of any forums off the top of my head.

My Japanese is nothing short of awful, but the JP players I have partied with have found my broken Japanese to be adorable (not sure if that is a compliment or not D:), and much prefer it instead of being with someone who is entirely silent.

link?