Why English player like to cheat and hack?

[silentpanda]

Discussed in foreigner topic in CBT forum
http://pso2.jp/cbt/bbs/?mode=detail&gid=6023&forum=7


This type of behavior will make easier to request IP blocking, so only Japanese IP can play.
http://youtu.be/Uidzjy-WCU0
http://youtu.be/P5j5NJO77Lg

[Spellbinder]

I'm assuming you're not from a primarily English speaking country. May I ask where you're from?

[bryanbtje]

So did you just made a account to post this?

[Dragwind]

This is not being done by the all of the English speaking player community. I really want to stress that point clearly.

This is being done by a very, very small group (I'd say probably around 2-4 people) of players.

This behavior should not be seen as the impression of the English speaking community as a whole, because it is not.

[silentpanda]

We want English playing friend to be able to play(Help learn English), even though Close Beta is Japan only, there are group that doesn't like foreigner, and blame 630 and all problem on foreigner.

But if English player hack and break the game, it is hard to defend and say no to IP ban.

[Razelis]

Sigh I guess people just can't have fun playing without cheating...

[kudo]

By your logic if someone in your country hacks. You should ban everyone?

Anyhow, how the heck did they develop hacks for this game already?

[Dragwind]

We want English playing friend to be able to play(Help learn English), even though Close Beta is Japan only, there are group that doesn't like foreigner, and blame 630 and all problem on foreigner.

But if English player hack and break the game, it is hard to defend and say no to IP ban.

That is the problem however. There is a misunderstanding. It's not as if the whole foreign community is doing this. It's only about 2-4 people.

[LightBreaker]

Broomop.... That turd is still around?

:|

[Razelis]

We want English playing friend to be able to play(Help learn English), even though Close Beta is Japan only, there are group that doesn't like foreigner, and blame 630 and all problem on foreigner.

But if English player hack and break the game, it is hard to defend and say no to IP ban.

It's people like this we need to appreaciate. We need to (somehow) combine efforts with this guy and not go against him/her XP

[kudo]

His base of banning hackers is perfectly fine. I go against his idea, he seems to be supporting the banning of foreign IPs.

[Dragwind]

By your logic if someone in your country hacks. You should ban everyone?

Anyhow, how the heck did they develop hacks for this game already?

The alpha and beta clients have been around long enough for much to be done.

Another unfortunate issue here is that instead of them realizing that these "hackers" should be seen as an opportunity to address and fix a hole in the game, it's going to be misunderstood as if all outsiders do this to their games. (Take PSO v.1, v.2, + ep.1 + 2 etc as an example)

[Shinji Kazuya]

It's people like this we need to appreaciate. We need to (somehow) combine efforts with this guy and not go against him/her XP

Yep. Exactly like you said. We need to show that we love the game as much as them and that we want to have great fun playing it, fairly of course.

Those 2-4 players who hack left and right are just, excuse me, disgusting.

If I was on their side of things, I think I would say the same thing: "These guys come here to our Beta, start hacking and breaking the game? Ban them!"

It's not surprising they start hating us.

[BWS-1]

Assuming they think all hacks come from English people (though whoever thinks that strongly should head over to China or Russia for ''education'' on the matter...), and following Dragwind's point, wouldn't it make sense that they'd allow English people on their beta since they'd see us as ''a fiendish element allowing for the beta - and future releases - to be stronger from the flaws exposed to them through our evil evil hacking''?

It's a BETA. I would actually think that ''refraining'' from breaking the game would be something that would lead anyone to be unwelcomed, not the other way around.

If there is a time a game needs to be ''shattered'' it's GOT to be beta.

[Spellbinder]

その動画を良く見るとそのプレイヤーはBroomopというですよね。彼のことを知ってますか 。

ドリームキャスト版でも、ゲームキューブ版でも、PSOBBでも、彼はチートしようとすることで知られてい ますよ。自慢したがってるこそ、世界的にに知られています。しかし、日本人からといってチートしないとは限 らないでしょう。β掲示板にも投稿しましたが、海外IPを弾くことよりもチートの対策を考えたほうがいいの ではないでしょうか。

正直に言うとBroomopを別にしてチートしようとしている外国人は誰一人としていないと思いますよ。そ れに、彼を外国人の代表者としてみるのが不条理だと思います。

[Anon_Fire]

Broomop.... That turd is still around?

:|

http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww353/anon_fire/pso20120423_134043_000.jpg

I'm afraid so Lightbreaker.

[Dinosaur]

その動画を良く見るとそのプレイヤーはBroomopというですよね。彼のことを知ってますか 。

ドリームキャスト版でも、ゲームキューブ版でも、PSOBBでも、彼はチートしようとすることで知られてい ますよ。自慢したがってるこそ、世界的にに知られています。しかし、日本人からといってチートしないとは限 らないでしょう。β掲示板にも投稿しましたが、海外IPを弾くことよりもチートの対策を考えたほうがいいの ではないでしょうか。

正直に言うとBroomopを別にしてチートしようとしている外国人は誰一人としていないと思いますよ。そ れに、彼を外国人の代表者としてみるのが不条理だと思います。

quoting for truth

[Clessy]

Why do all foreigner like to stereotype and generalize?

And holy shit broomop is still around. He's been hacking pso since day one version 1 on DC. If anything he constantly proving Sega isnt doing a good job at security.

Btw how is the same glitch that was in psu when it first came out in pso2.

[Arika]

その動画を良く見るとそのプレイヤーはBroomopというですよね。彼のことを知ってますか 。

ドリームキャスト版でも、ゲームキューブ版でも、PSOBBでも、彼はチートしようとすることで知られてい ますよ。自慢したがってるこそ、世界的にに知ら れています。しかし、日本人からといってチートしないとは限らないでしょう。β掲示板にも投稿しましたが、 海外IPを弾くことよりもチートの対策を考えた ほうがいいのではないでしょうか。

正直に言うとBroomopを別にしてチートしようとしている外国人は誰一人としていないと思いますよ。そ れに、彼を外国人の代表者としてみるのが不条理だと思います。

Broomop は1人悪いです　　　
皆さんはＰＳＯ／ＰＳＵと大好き、チートをしたくない。

警告はありがとう　　　　彼は禁止された願い!!

　

[Xanthias64]

その動画を良く見るとそのプレイヤーはBroomopというですよね。彼のことを知ってますか 。

ドリームキャスト版でも、ゲームキューブ版でも、PSOBBでも、彼はチートしようとすることで知られてい ますよ。自慢したがってるこそ、世界的にに知られています。しかし、日本人からといってチートしないとは限 らないでしょう。β掲示板にも投稿しましたが、海外IPを弾くことよりもチートの対策を考えたほうがいいの ではないでしょうか。

正直に言うとBroomopを別にしてチートしようとしている外国人は誰一人としていないと思いますよ。そ れに、彼を外国人の代表者としてみるのが不条理だと思います。

Haha. This.

[Arika]

Do you guys even know what you quote?
The first two sentence may be true. but the last sentence isn't good at all.

[Witchblade56]

Broomop has been around forever. He isn't harmless. Luckily he can't do what he's done in the portable world by glitching other people's character levels.

It's lame he's still doing this though.

[Spellbinder]

Do you guys even know what you quote?
The first two sentence may be true. but the last sentence isn't good at all. He said that our community always seem to think positive of this kind of activity and which is why foreigner could not be trust. he said he thinks not just broomop that cheat.

I see you edited your post. That's not what I was saying if you're referring to my Japanese post.

[Zeota]

Assuming they think all hacks come from English people (though whoever thinks that strongly should head over to China or Russia for ''education'' on the matter...), and following Dragwind's point, wouldn't it make sense that they'd allow English people on their beta since they'd see us as ''a fiendish element allowing for the beta - and future releases - to be stronger from the flaws exposed to them through our evil evil hacking''?

It's a BETA. I would actually think that ''refraining'' from breaking the game would be something that would lead anyone to be unwelcomed, not the other way around.

If there is a time a game needs to be ''shattered'' it's GOT to be beta.

Yup. Also shows what happens when you use a system like gameguard which has proven time and time again to have the security of Swiss cheese.

[Arika]

I see you edited your post. That's not what I was saying if you're referring to my Japanese post.

So that is what you post? I thought it is also some quote from BB.
your post only says that it is not just broomop that cheat. and then I add up the reason why they think english people like to cheat from BB.
Since the sentence wouldn't complete with reason if I only translate that part.

you should have just told them that it is only broomop, so that they don't have to include other people iP.

Best to let them only focus on the hacker shown, so they don't become worry too much about other and then block every IP!!

[KaoPyro]

I really hate the way the majority of Japanese are thinking on this subject. It's this blatant mistrust of other nations that breeds war and, consequently, death. They need to grow up, see that we're all people, and if judge, judge individuals on their actions and not the whole.

[Alenoir]

Do you guys even know what you quote?
The first two sentence may be true. but the last sentence isn't good at all. He said that our community always seem to feedback positive of this kind of activity and which is why foreigner could not be trust. he said he thinks not just broomop that cheat.

You misunderstood the last line. Spellbinder never said anything about us agreeing with hacks or us using hacks. Yeah, Japanese can be a confusing language.


There were actually another thread on the CBT BBS that mentions the guy and the hack videos he posted up. Amazingly, most of the replies on that thread was like "this idiot again?"


Edit: Seems some people were bashing the TC... Why? I think he/she was just informing us of this and warn us about it being easier for the anti-foreigners to request for IP ban.

[Mike]

Do you guys even know what you quote?
The first two sentence may be true. but the last sentence isn't good at all.
The last sentence is perfectly fine.

[therealAERO]

I thought broomop was dead...hmmm. Anyway I'm going to request to sega that they do something about broomop.

[Spellbinder]

チートしようとしている外国人は誰一人としていないと思いますよ

This means that "I don't think there are any foreigners that are trying to cheat"

interrogative + ー (one) + として　(verb) ない

Is a Japanese pattern for emphasizing a negative statement. In this case, I was emphasizing that I think there is NO ONE who cheats if you exclude Broomop.

Example:

彼の提案に誰一人として反対できなかった

There wasn't a single person that could oppose his plan. (emphasizing not a single person)

そ れに、彼を外国人の代表者としてみるのが不条理だと思います。

In English: I think it's foolish to look at Broomop as representative of foreigners.


Any questions?

[Arika]

Oh, it is "don't think " there =_= sorry then.

At first I think it mean "you think" w

So I thought it mean "True to be told, you think that there are other oversea cheater" which is opposite :X

[Cyrusnagisa]

it makes me sad as well, I don't like it that we are being blamed for the errors, and ALL of the hacking -.-

Only alterations I have done to my client have been adding English.

[Alenoir]

The action of adding English itself is breaking the rules. =\

[Arika]

Actually if he keep the hack to himself and not post in youtube, then there wouldn't be any problem here about oversea IP banning topic...

[risbolla]

Sounds like every other official online game forum with tons of irrational fingerpointing and whatnot. I'll just trust Sega to be like every other online game developer and not read their own forums. Problem solved!

[Macman]

History repeats itself.

So much for non-segregated servers.

[Milla]

I have a bad feeling about all this, almost like a deja vu or something. >.>

[Faiyez]

even though Close Beta is Japan only, there are group that doesn't like foreigner, and blame 630 and all problem on foreigner.

/facepalm

[Zeota]

Sounds like every other official online game forum with tons of irrational fingerpointing and whatnot. I'll just trust Sega to be like every other online game developer and not read their own forums. Problem solved!

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh God yes!


I really hate the way the majority of Japanese are thinking on this subject. It's this blatant mistrust of other nations that breeds war and, consequently, death. They need to grow up, see that we're all people, and if judge, judge individuals on their actions and not the whole.

What also gets me is they seem to conveniently forget they're no saints either. Some of the worst stuff on the DC that supposedly came from clowns like "Ganja-UK" were plagiarized from JPs. To me, continually playing the "holier than thou" card is even worse than the act in question itself.

[GrandTickler]

hackers or cheaters are pathetic, bunch of internet criminals with little dicks

[Ash1ey]

Its definitely only a small group of people and I really am sorry to see that this is happening already.

The majority of us English speaking players truly love Phantasy Star and want nothing more then to just play the game regularly and have fun, just the same as the Japanese players do. We love Phantasy Star and really don't want to see it ruined by a small group of cheaters :l

[Pillan]

I really hate the way the majority of Japanese are thinking on this subject. It's this blatant mistrust of other nations that breeds war and, consequently, death. They need to grow up, see that we're all people, and if judge, judge individuals on their actions and not the whole.

Saying the majority of the Japanese think that way is worse than the claim that the majority of the foreigners are hackers. In both cases, we have no information to prove the statement and can probably find a lot to the contrary.

[Macman]

hackers or cheaters are pathetic, bunch of internet criminals with little dicks
And yet these are exactly the type of comments people like him look for.

[pokopo]

Broomop は1人悪いです　　　
皆さんはＰＳＯ／ＰＳＵと大好き、チートをしたくない。

警告はありがとう　　　　彼は禁止された願い!!

　

Hi Arika,

I just replied the "dont be angry" person in that thread.
We are not talking about Broomop in that thread, we are talking about the rules and regulations.

[moorebounce]

Yeah you can't blame the whole lot if only a handful are doing that. This just means Sega needs to tighten the security of this game big time.

[Dabian]

It's like a white bedsheet with blood stains. Which would your eyes focus on immediately? :p

Even if they're only blots (hackers) in a sea of white (us the good guys?) the negativity generated from just those blots can be game-breaking. Literally.

But as much as I appreciate the OP's intentions of giving us a heads up (I hope that's what he intended :p), I, on the other hand, find it pretty hard to believe there isn't some JP player mucking about with the client the same way Broomop (go die in a fire you [censored]) does.

[Crono_114]

I. Don't like Broom. He's a douche. I will admit, I'm not gonna say I haven't broken any rules, however, I don't do stupid shit like break the game like he does. Nor put out any trainers that have trojans.. No, I only wanna make sure this game doesn't end up dying like all the others. If you know who I am, or where I'm from you'll know I try to stop cheaters like him. I'm not that type of person (Even if you may think so because of what I do). However, I will say I never really did mean to kill PSU ps2/pc. Just kinda happened. But JP person.. You should really try to get to know some of the non-cheater people, or just people that speak English that aren't dicks. Even if you IP ban the good players... the cheaters will still get on using proxies for their games. Don't block out the good people, and only let in the bad. I hope you understand.

[goldwing]

Well this is clearly sad news but its not like we have an ip ban yet if they do decide this then theres nothing we can really do about that. Some will find away back in while others simply have to wait either or we can only play the waiting game and see what happens. Its nice to see we have ppl fighting for our rights in our time of need.

[GrandTickler]

And yet these are exactly the type of comments people like him look for.

thats ok. someone has to confirm their pathetic little existence in this world :P
hopefully some day they will realize their mistakes

[Powder Keg]

Whatever.

If Sega decides they want to separate servers again because of the acts of a few people (as if no one on the JP side does any rule-breaking) then the company deserves nothing but absolute and total failure.

[Macman]

Whatever.

If Sega decides they want to separate servers again because of the acts of a few people (as if no one on the JP side does any rule-breaking) then the company deserves nothing but absolute and total failure. Do you NOT want to play the game?

Time to buckle down and learn Japanese, I guess.

[Rauten]

I. Don't like Broom. He's a douche. I will admit, I'm not gonna say I haven't broken any rules, however, I don't do stupid shit like break the game like he does. Nor put out any trainers that have trojans.. No, I only wanna make sure this game doesn't end up dying like all the others. If you know who I am, or where I'm from you'll know I try to stop cheaters like him. I'm not that type of person (Even if you may think so because of what I do). However, I will say I never really did mean to kill PSU ps2/pc. Just kinda happened. But JP person.. You should really try to get to know some of the non-cheater people, or just people that speak English that aren't dicks. Even if you IP ban the good players... the cheaters will still get on using proxies for their games. Don't block out the good people, and only let in the bad. I hope you understand.

As far as I'm concerned, you may have done some harm, but due to "that place we cannot name here", I think you've also done a lot of good, and even a service to SEGA by helping keep the PSO fanbase alive. As far as I'm concerned, you have my respect.

Broomop can go die in a fire, though.

[njdss4]

Unfortunately, there will always be cheaters and hackers. Just because this one happens to be an English speaking player doesn't mean SEGA should ban an entire region from playing, though. That would be a complete overreaction. Besides, what would SEGA do when they find out a Japanese player is cheating? Shut the game down completely? Just ban the cheaters and the rest of us can have fun playing the game.

TBH, I wouldn't mind if the US and JP servers were just separated. I played FFXI which allowed cross region and cross platform play and I had a lot of very bad experiences with Japanese players. There was blatant racism against Americans, they wouldn't play with anyone who didn't speak Japanese, and used the auto-translate to say very derogatory things and make blanket statements about English speakers as if JP players were some sort of master race of gamers. Sadly, I think it would be best to just keep things separate to avoid all those conflicts.

[Macman]

It's less about interacting with other races. It's about maintaining a content flow with the Japanese.
You remember PSU, right?

[njdss4]

It's less about interacting with other races. It's about maintaining a content flow with the Japanese.
You remember PSU, right?

I didn't play PSU. Just PSO and PSPortable.

[Crono_114]

I didn't play PSU. Just PSO and PSPortable.

PSPortable is PSU basically.

[Macman]

I'll summarize it for you. PSU ran on separate servers for JP and US/EU. The US/EU servers were rarely updated, though. As far as content goes, the ongoing Xbox servers are more than a year and a half behind on updates compared to the Japanese PC version.

[shiink]

What a wonderful thing to wake up to in the morning.

I like everyone else shares the same feelings about this Broomop tool. I REALLY hope that they overlook the propaganda about the foreigners and look at who is really doing what. Though all of us are technically guilty for breaking the TOS (with the exception of those of you actually staying in Japan) certain things should not be tolerated. My only intention of playing this game was on a Japanese server. I can live with disregarding the CYA clause (Cover your ass) regarding residency. I have read the BBS and such and though there is a mixed response on IP banning (appears to be mostly against) I hope that people like Broomop get their cumuppins and the rest of us can enjoy the game in peace.

P.S. I don't even get why he gets off on doing that so much. I mean he ends up getting banned on nearly every phantasy star platform. He doesn't even get to play the game for that long.

[njdss4]

PSPortable is PSU basically.

I only played PSP offline, so I don't know what Macman is referring to.


I'll summarize it for you. PSU ran on separate servers for JP and US/EU. The US/EU servers were rarely updated, though. As far as content goes, the ongoing Xbox servers are more than a year and a half behind on updates compared to the Japanese PC version.

Ah, well if SEGA is going to be that incompetent about PSO2 in regions outside of Japan, they might as well not make the game at all. That's pretty pathetic, imo, to make a game and half-ass the localization in other regions so that they can guarantee its failure.

[Rauten]

I didn't play PSU. Just PSO and PSPortable.

The delay in content patches was laughable. It's one of my greatest fears for PSO2.

[moorebounce]

You should really try to get to know some of the non-cheater people, or just people that speak English that aren't dicks. Even if you IP ban the good players... the cheaters will still get on using proxies for their games. Don't block out the good people, and only let in the bad. I hope you understand.

I was thinking the same thing. Sega needs to make sure Gameguard is checking the files everytime it loads. Not only a first run.

[Zeota]

The delay in content patches was laughable. It's one of my greatest fears for PSO2.

That, my friend, is why you import, moon-speak be damned!

[Rauten]

No, SEGA just needs to use something that isn't GameGuard, which has been proven time and again to be completely utterly useless. That famed picture about the Windows XP Firewall comes to mind...

[shiink]

I was thinking the same thing. Sega needs to make sure Gameguard is checking the files everytime it loads. Not only a first run.

Or get rid of Gameguard and develop something more reliable....

EDIT:

No, SEGA just needs to use something that isn't GameGuard, which has been proven time and again to be completely utterly useless. That famed picture about the Windows XP Firewall comes to mind...

Sniped.

[Rauten]

That, my friend, is why you import, moon-speak be damned!

If the game doesn't make it to an international release, or if the content delay is once again beyond ridiculous, I am certainly considering sneaking into the JP servers, provided they won't block my European credit card and that there's at least a menu translation patch. (Moon-speak may be damned, but I sure as hell can't read it for my life).

[Tiffiana]

Disliked and reported both of his videos as scams/fraud on youtube lol Hopefully we can nip this in the bud now. :l broomop needs to be permanently banned from ANYTHING phantasy star.

[xBladeM6x]

That is the problem however. There is a misunderstanding. It's not as if the whole foreign community is doing this. It's only about 2-4 people.
Yet, the Japanese will continue to be racist to all outside of their own kin, just because we're BAKA GAIJIN and they're the Alpha and Omega of the world. It's amazing how people stereotyped to be intelligent can be so intolerant, and completely stupid about something. Here's their logic:

- 1 or 2 English people are hacking our SUPERIOR JAPANESE GAME.
- Ban ALL IP'S OUTSIDE OF JAPAN NOW.

- 1 or 2 Japanese people are hacking our SUPERIOR JAPANESE GAME.
- Ban them, and it's all good, no problem BRUH.

They sound completely tolerant, fair-minded, and understanding of the world around them. I don't actually think SEGA will go through with it, but I am just stating my anger towards a group of people who's first logic is to just alienate an entire world around them, or region, just because 1-2 bad apples exist, and won't admit to their own people having any flaws.

Before anyone quotes me and start saying "Oh you're just an intolerant racist, blah blah blah". Let me make this clear. I'm not. I'm just simply pointing out stupidity, and a great deal of it, that one group of people is attempting to impose. SPECIFICALLY THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT WAY. NO ONE ELSE.

[Wayu]

I really hate the way the majority of Japanese are thinking on this subject. It's this blatant mistrust of other nations that breeds war and, consequently, death. They need to grow up, see that we're all people, and if judge, judge individuals on their actions and not the whole.


Yet, the Japanese will continue to be racist to all outside of their own kin, just because we're BAKA GAIJIN and they're the Alpha and Omega of the world. It's amazing how people stereotyped to be intelligent can be so intolerant, and completely stupid about something. Here's their logic:

- 1 or 2 English people are hacking our SUPERIOR JAPANESE GAME.
- Ban ALL IP'S OUTSIDE OF JAPAN NOW.

- 1 or 2 Japanese people are hacking our SUPERIOR JAPANESE GAME.
- Ban them, and it's all good, no problem BRUH.


What also gets me is they seem to conveniently forget they're no saints either. Some of the worst stuff on the DC that supposedly came from clowns like "Ganja-UK" were plagiarized from JPs. To me, continually playing the "holier than thou" card is even worse than the act in question itself.

It's not the majority of Japanese, it's actually a comparative minority. This kind of thinking is exactly what the people you're complaining about say as well, so it's hypocritical in a sense. It's also quite insulting to English-speaking Japanese (and Japanese as a whole) such as I.

What we should be doing, both us and the Japanese, is to look at the issue from multiple perspectives and NOT correlate the sins of a minority as the sins of the whole.

In other words, just because some people say it or do it doesn't mean we all do it. This cuts both ways, guys, you have to realize. We may see ourselves as the victims (self-defense instinct to think that way) but we gotta realize that the Japanese - even the complainers - feel that they're the victims as well.


Saying the majority of the Japanese think that way is worse than the claim that the majority of the foreigners are hackers. In both cases, we have no information to prove the statement and can probably find a lot to the contrary.

You're a wise man, Pillan.

-Wayu

[Tiffiana]

It's not the majority of Japanese, it's actually a comparative minority. This kind of thinking is exactly what the people you're complaining about say as well, so it's hypocritical in a sense. It's also quite insulting to English-speaking Japanese (and Japanese as a whole) such as I.

What we should be doing, both us and the Japanese, is to look at the issue from multiple perspectives and NOT correlate the sins of a minority as the sins of the whole.

In other words, just because some people say it or do it doesn't mean we all do it. This cuts both ways, guys, you have to realize. We may see ourselves as the victims (self-defense instinct to think that way) but we gotta realize that the Japanese - even the complainers - feel that they're the victims as well.



You're a wise man, Pillan.

-Wayu

quoting for the absolute truth here lol thanks Wayu, that needed to be said xD

[Taitu]

Uh, that topic isn't even about cheaters. It's about foreigners supposedly lagging the game which I believe there already is another topic on here about.

Also it seems like they aren't even complaining about English speaking players, they're complaining about Chinese players.

[Alenoir]

Yet, the Japanese will continue to be racist to all outside of their own kin, just because we're BAKA GAIJIN and they're the Alpha and Omega of the world. It's amazing how people stereotyped to be intelligent can be so intolerant, and completely stupid about something. Here's their logic:

- 1 or 2 English people are hacking our SUPERIOR JAPANESE GAME.
- Ban ALL IP'S OUTSIDE OF JAPAN NOW.

- 1 or 2 Japanese people are hacking our SUPERIOR JAPANESE GAME.
- Ban them, and it's all good, no problem BRUH.

They sound completely tolerant, fair-minded, and understanding of the world around them. I don't actually think SEGA will go through with it, but I am just stating my anger towards a group of people who's first logic is to just alienate an entire world around them, or region, just because 1-2 bad apples exist, and won't admit to their own people having any flaws.

Before anyone quotes me and start saying "Oh you're just an intolerant racist, blah blah blah". Let me make this clear. I'm not. I'm just simply pointing out stupidity, and a great deal of it, that one group of people is attempting to impose. SPECIFICALLY THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT WAY. NO ONE ELSE.


Most Japanese are actually quite friendly to you if you show any signs of wanting to get along with them or at the very least attempt to speak their language, on their server.

Besides, that whole thread linked in the first post, the people that wants IP ban on oversea countries is because that the user guideline specifically stated you need to be living in Japan to join the beta test. We're all breaking that rule here.

[Ark22]

Damn how did you know I found a coding loophole?

GET NINJA'D ARIKA, and I must be BroomOp O:

[Arika]

^
^
^
Because BroomOp is English speaker and he post in youtube to show off.

and also..
Because JP hacker keep it to themselves and not post on NicoNico or Youtube. never, so the things are just so different. It is much less harm that way compare to this.

They would just reply you back "Even if it is just 1-2 people, then why it always people from your country"

[metatime]

I remember people like nugz or whatever their name, they like to FSOD and like to jump to every ship, especially the JP ship and fsod them. In my years of playing PSO on Sega servers, I haven't seen a JP person fsoding other people.

Also KR don't have a huge hacking problem either but they use KSSN for every account so its a bit harder.

[Sev]

If Sega bans IP's it happens, but I don't see why they'd turn down money.

[Macman]

If Sega bans IP's it happens, but I don't see why they'd turn down money.Well the thing is most of us wouldn't make Sega any money because I doubt they would accept non-JP credit cards on a JP game.

[xBladeM6x]

Well the thing is most of us wouldn't make Sega any money because I doubt they would accept non-JP credit cards on a JP game.
They already do on JP PSU.

[Crysteon]

Well the thing is most of us wouldn't make Sega any money because I doubt they would accept non-JP credit cards on a JP game.

They will pretty much use the same ISAO billing system they have used for PSU, so that wont be an issue for non-jp cards.

[Sev]

Well the thing is most of us wouldn't make Sega any money because I doubt they would accept non-JP credit cards on a JP game.

There are generally ways around that, and we can't be sure that there will be currency restrictions. Still, the more people playing your game, free or not, the better.

[Zeota]

For the first few months of JP PSU, they used SegaLink, which did in fact reject foreign credit cards. Most of us got around it by buying NetCash off import websites like NCS or from folks that lived in Japan.

[Nisshoku]

両方の問題に関する私の見解を聞くに値するように私は、日本語と英語の両方で私の応答を掲示されます。これ らの意見は一人で鉱山と鉱山があります。

私の考えは少し混合される。私は廃墟ゲームが、（私が覚えている場合がBroomopの手口である）、私は 個人的に能力が自分のネイティブ言語でゲームをプレイすることができますが'ハック'ではないと信じていま すが、アクセス能力を可能にすることのエクスプロイト（Exploit）を利用し非難しながら、特に我々は 現在、英語のリリースにはまだのようには言葉を持っていなかったという事実による。

私は個人的にファンタシースターシリーズの10年のベテランとして、話す、私はそれを必要とするものに有用 性の手を拡張します。そこにはもちろん言葉の壁であるが、私は壮大なコミュニティの一部だと見て、私は私が 私の仲間のプレイヤーを助けるためにできることやりたいことがあります。私はPSO2クローズドベータで、 午前だけシリーズ専用のファンとして。

最後に、私たちの最悪の例で考えられるものに私達を判断しないでください。私たちの一部は、本当に友達にな り、あなたと一緒にゲームを楽しみたい。

----

I will be posting my response in both Japanese and English, as both deserve to hear my view on the matter. These opinions are mine and mine alone.

My opinion is a bit mixed. While I condemn the use of exploits that ruins the game, (which if I recall is Broomop's modus operandi), I personally believe that allowing the ability to play a game in one's native language is not a 'hack', but allowing accessability; especially due to the fact that we currently have had no word as of yet on a english language release.

I personally speak as a 10-year veteran of the Phantasy Star series, myself extending a hand of helpfulness to those that need it. There may be a language barrier of course, but seeing as I'm part of a grand community, I want to do what I can to help my fellow player. I am in the PSO2 closed beta, but only as a dedicated fan of the series.

In closing, please do not judge us on what could be considered our worst example. Some of us truly want to be friends, and enjoy the game alongside you.

[Yamishi]

Its definitely only a small group of people and I really am sorry to see that this is happening already.

The majority of us English speaking players truly love Phantasy Star and want nothing more then to just play the game regularly and have fun, just the same as the Japanese players do. We love Phantasy Star and really don't want to see it ruined by a small group of cheaters :l

Someone translate this to Japanese and post it in that thread!

[str898mustang]

and this is why F2P was a huge f*^&ing mistake.

[Macman]

and this is why F2P was a huge f*^&ing mistake.
At least they can't ruin the economy without ruining their own empty wallets this time around.

[Arika]

and this is why F2P was a huge f*^&ing mistake.

it doesn't matter if it is F2P or not. BroomOP was also in P2P in PSU.

[RocSage]

Considering that Broomop has been a problem for so long don't you think it is sorta telling of SEGA in general that he is in the beta?

There seems to be 3 problems cropping up here:
Broomop hacking.
Sega not taking appropriate actions.
People being racist towards each other.

I say fix the racism as that's what you can fix and then be annoyed with sega for not fixing the problem. Be mad at Broomop, but he's not really the major problem here in my eyes and there is nothing anyone posting can do about him so why direct so much hate towards him.

[Ark22]

You guys complain a lot don't ya? The game isn't even out yet, shit hasn't hit the fans, Sega SO FAR is doing a good job.

Feels like PSO Drama World xD. I still love you guys though.

But still and all, until I see a game breaking hack and people getting NOEL'D I see no point of this.

[Enforcer MKV]

and this is why F2P was a huge f*^&ing mistake.

Model is irrelevant. Bad seeds are bad seeds.

[AnnabellaRenee87]

Oh racism, what a outdated practice you are....

I love Japan but sometimes I wonder how much they hate any outsiders. Some of their bars tell foreigners to leave right on the door unless they have Japanese friends with them. Although this practice is starting to be phased out as the upcoming generation likes foreigners.

BACK ON TOPIC

Isn't it funny how they are trying to "bring the fight" to our site? And we are the legit community that doesn't talk about/condone mods/glitches.

[Ark22]

Oh racism, what a outdated practice you are....

I love Japan but sometimes I wonder how much they hate any outsiders. Some of their bars tell foreigners to leave right on the door unless they have Japanese friends with them. Although this practice is starting to be phased out as the upcoming generation likes foreigners.

BACK ON TOPIC

Isn't it funny how they are trying to "bring the fight" to our site? And we are the legit community that doesn't talk about/condone mods/glitches.

Well we did force them to open up to the world, that seems like a motive =)

[Subject Delta]

Model is irrelevant. Bad seeds are bad seeds.

That is not true at all F2P allows for scum like this to make as many accounts as they want.

[FerrPSO]

In my PERSONAL opinion, I payed about 5 or 6 years on FFXI, and 1 on FFXIV.

Never, myself, or anyone I knew, had any problems with JP people.

Yeah, there were some of them that didnt want to party with foreigners, but you have to understand is not because racism, but because language.
(Some EU or NA people do the same when they get someone in the party who doesnt speak english, I saw it too.)


But I did a lot of things with teams of both JP and English in that game, and the majority of them were friendly and got along very well.

Anyways, FFXI show me that JP players and English players can coexist, hell theres were even Linkshells(guilds, teams..) with both English and JP.

Theres JP racist? Theres also English racist, its human nature, but no one will never be able to convince be that we cant get along with JP people. As I said, I already saw we can.

[sibladeko]

Holy crap the sense of entitlement of some of the people in this thread.
They could have banned the whole lot of us by IP right at the start and forced us all to go through proxies or whatever garbage connections people do to get around these things.
It's a privilege to even be playing, and some of you have the nerve to cry "xenophobic?"

Does the word "BR" mean anything to you as an online gamer?
How about the words "gold seller"?

Holier than thou?
The simple fact is we're not supposed to be here, they surprisingly (I 100% expected IP ban right off the bat when the game was even announced for alpha) let us all in, if you want to be a dick about us losing something we weren't supposed to have access to in the first place be my guest.

Hostile to foreigners?
Sure
Intolerant of other languages in public chat?
Whatever
Reasons none of that is relevant?
You're getting something for free, until we all start paying actual money for this game we are nothing more than freeloaders enjoying the ride.

The best we can do in the face of these things is just act as a group and condemn them.
That might be hard with other less savory foreign communities playing the game, but the onus is on us to show our best face.
Not sperg out and be like "xenophobic Japan does it again."

[Omega-z]

Well, Why don't we come up with Idea's to stop this form happening (like a "Think Tank" ). And Help Sega figure a new approach on how to deal with this problem. That way both sides can see that where more helping then hurting. Sega could make a lot of $ off the Hacker's if done right and make them pay(in $) for there folly. There are better way's to skin a cat, And we need to help them not just in game play but also in the Security of the game to make it the best game ever.

[Arika]

lol, someone just remind me of this old thread:

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60483

[Du1337]

With a PC version, won't it be harder for hackers now? Just like in WoW, hackers get banned.

[xBladeM6x]

With a PC version, won't it be harder for hackers now? Just like in WoW, hackers get banned.
The real problem is GameGuard. It was utterly useless against hackers in PSU, I don't know what made them think it would be useful, now. :???:

[Zorafim]

I'm sorry, but isn't the point of a beta to find out any bugs, and fix them? If I found a hacker in my game, and the hacking was bad enough for me to need to do something about it, my first instinct isn't "Ban everyone", it's "Wow, my product isn't perfected! What went wrong?". The entire point of this testing is to get everything as perfect as possible in a given time frame. If I find someone hacking, I'd want to know how he did it, and stop it from happening again. They shouldn't be banning hackers, they should be hiring them!

And on the other side, I kind of understand the hacker mentality. If I'm skilled at something, I want to show off what I can do. Some harmless destruction in a game seems like the perfect outlet for that, and in fact seems like a playground. Going around and destroying other people's fun, and in fact creating anger, just because I happen to be skilled at hacking, is unforgivable. But I'd still do something interesting and show it off. And if I do find something bad, I'd try and see if I can get the company running the game enough information to fix the problem.
Heck, ideally I'd try to help them perfect their game by trying to break it. What could be better than taking something you love, taking it apart, and rebuilding it better than what it was?


You guys complain a lot don't ya? The game isn't even out yet, shit hasn't hit the fans, Sega SO FAR is doing a good job.

Firstly, welcome to PSOW! We like to complain. It's fun, you should join us!

Secondly, it's going a bit out of the way to say that Sega's doing a good job (in a specific department) because the game isn't out yet. It's more like, they aren't responsible when they do a bad job.
I'd say that now is where they define themselves. Here's a major problem. Let's see how they deal with it, then judge them.
For the record though, so far I think Sega's doing a fantastic job with the game. This game is leaps and bounds above what PSU was at this stage. I just want to make clear that just because the game is great, doesn't mean that their response to security issues is.
But if their response is as great as their game, I'm going to be one happy fish.


With a PC version, won't it be harder for hackers now? Just like in WoW, hackers get banned.

There are more hacking tools on the PC, and it's easier to get into the game too. The problem with hacking in PSU was on the PC server, while 360 had no problems whatsoever.
Ignoring the horrible memory leak issues, of course.


Uh, that topic isn't even about cheaters. It's about foreigners supposedly lagging the game which I believe there already is another topic on here about.

Also it seems like they aren't even complaining about English speaking players, they're complaining about Chinese players.

Well. Wow. We, um... This is kind of awkward.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

LOL they're mostly talking about chinese players?! haha! hahahaha!

what a twist! i'd think that most chinese players would have an easier time reading japanese anyway since they know the chinese characters.

[Vashyron]

It's funny using this as a reason on requesting IP block.

When you know, it's going to keep anyone but the people who can "hack" out?

[KaoPyro]

They could have banned the whole lot of us by IP right at the start and forced us all to go through proxies or whatever garbage connections people do to get around these things.
It's a privilege to even be playing

It's a privilege to be doing a lot of things in the world, that people think is more their right. However, that same privilege we have is extended to the Japanese. We are equal in our privilege to play this game. It is not more or less of a right for Japanese to play this game as it is anyone else. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the terms of service agreement said NOTHING about this beta being exclusive to Japanese nation only. Rather it was open for anyone to sign up. And this is ultimately for the best. We Americans will still have to pay for arks cash. More customers is more money. The only barrier that exists is language. Let's hope it stays that way.

PS I've seen a nation exclusive beta. It was locked by SSN.

[RocSage]

I'm sorry, but isn't the point of a beta to find out any bugs, and fix them? If I found a hacker in my game, and the hacking was bad enough for me to need to do something about it, my first instinct isn't "Ban everyone", it's "Wow, my product isn't perfected! What went wrong?". The entire point of this testing is to get everything as perfect as possible in a given time frame. If I find someone hacking, I'd want to know how he did it, and stop it from happening again. They shouldn't be banning hackers, they should be hiring them!

And on the other side, I kind of understand the hacker mentality. If I'm skilled at something, I want to show off what I can do. Some harmless destruction in a game seems like the perfect outlet for that, and in fact seems like a playground. Going around and destroying other people's fun, and in fact creating anger, just because I happen to be skilled at hacking, is unforgivable. But I'd still do something interesting and show it off. And if I do find something bad, I'd try and see if I can get the company running the game enough information to fix the problem.
Heck, ideally I'd try to help them perfect their game by trying to break it. What could be better than taking something you love, taking it apart, and rebuilding it better than what it was?


Your thinking of this from what you think you would do. This goes to an ignorance that people have of the subject.

There are people called "White Hat Hackers" who routinely crack (which is often enough not necessary which is a scary fact) into somewhere, discover problems and then fix it without ever letting someone know out right save for maybe a note in the code or report it to the company and how to fix it. These people, they're hired all the time and they do a lot of good that goes unnoticed.

On the other side of the fence we have "Black Hat Hackers" who are malicious twits who crack into somewhere and abuse the system for their own amusement or whatnot. This is a bit complicated because this group could range from assholes to people just doing their job from another company.

There is also something that I'd call a "Grey Hat Hacker" which is turning up more and more and are more prevalent in the game sphere which are Hackers that combat the Black Hat Hackers directly in various ways using some of the same tricks. It's not on the same level of those other Hacker types because it is mainly confined to games, but it will become more prevalent as time goes on for various reasons.

For example one trick that people used to pull in PSO is there was a bug where if you raised your HP over a limit the counter would reset to 0 so your HP would be 0/0 which would mean instant death. Hackers created a unit that raised your HP so much that it did this and because you could unequip the unit, because you're dead, that character was effectively killed permanently. What some Grey Hat Hackers did is find regular players and give them these units so that when a Black Hat hacker came around they could in theory trick the Hacker to pick it up, equip it and destroy their character. Thus teaching that hacker a lesson. Obviously there are flaws in this plan, but it's just an example.

Another case of "Grey Hat" hacking one might consider anonymous and the things they do sometimes as "Grey Hat" where they crack a system and then use it to combat some group they find immoral.


Basically the difference between Black, White, and Grey hats is Black is attack oriented out to amuse themselves. White is generally helpful and defensive. Grey Hats are attack oriented, but attack "bad guys"

People usually just lump all these people together and they lose all the benefits of the white and grey hats because there are always going to be black hats and they get the attention.

[TierrenZX]

It's a privilege to be doing a lot of things in the world, that people think is more their right. However, that same privilege we have is extended to the Japanese. We are equal in our privilege to play this game. It is not more or less of a right for Japanese to play this game as it is anyone else. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the terms of service agreement said NOTHING about this beta being exclusive to Japanese nation only. Rather it was open for anyone to sign up. And this is ultimately for the best. We Americans will still have to pay for arks cash. More customers is more money. The only barrier that exists is language. Let's hope it stays that way.

PS I've seen a nation exclusive beta. It was locked by SSN.

But i'm pretty sure it did say that the beta was specifically for those living in Japan. :|

[AnnabellaRenee87]

It could be the few people that had friends sign up and didn't get in, then saw how much foreigners got in and then got upset that their friends didn't get in and they didn't have enough invites for all their friends.

Maybe..... Anyone????

[Rauten]

But i'm pretty sure it did say that the beta was specifically for those living in Japan. :|

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Terms state that the beta is intended not for Japanese people, but for residents in Japan. And most of us here do not reside in Japan.

It's true this is a privilege for both the Japanese and us, difference being they were/are the ones whom this privilege was meant for.

[KaoPyro]

But i'm pretty sure it did say that the beta was specifically for those living in Japan. :|

"2. Persons who are residing in Japan"

so it does, my point is moot. I here-by acknowledge that everyone not residing in Japan, myself included, is violating the Terms of Service agreement and give my full recommendation that they cease playing the game immediately.

[Zorafim]

There are people called "White Hat Hackers" who routinely crack (which is often enough not necessary which is a scary fact) into somewhere, discover problems and then fix it without ever letting someone know out right save for maybe a note in the code or report it to the company and how to fix it. These people, they're hired all the time and they do a lot of good that goes unnoticed.

This is, perhaps, the most badass thing I've ever heard of.

Yeah, I'll admit, I don't have much experience with the internet's world of programmers. I just have a basic understanding of programming. Thanks for the insight.

[Rauten]

and give my full recommendation that they cease playing the game immediately.

Wow wow, easy there tiger. Not only SEGA probably doesn't mind that much, they were very likely expecting it.
I remember back in the PSOBB JP Beta there was also quite a handful of us EN-speaking players in, and IIRC, SEGA said they were thrilled to see such avid interest in the game from the international community.

The whole point of this is that, if they do decide to block us from connecting, we have no right to complain. But if/until that happens, there's no reason to stop playing now. Quite the contrary, I'd say this "invasion" of international players makes a decent case to SEGA that there's indeed demand for an international release.

So what I'm saying is WHY THE HELL AM I STUCK AT WORK I WANT THOSE 500 FUN FOR LEVELING IN THE NEW SHIP URGH!

[KaoPyro]

Wow wow, easy there tiger. Not only SEGA probably doesn't mind that much, they were very likely expecting it.

I don't deny that this is probably very good for SEGA, but the fact is we're all breaking the contract. I will likely continue breaking the contract, but my official recommendation is as stated.

[megamegabuster]

Broomop? I've only heard of him but don't recall seeing him on the GCN servers in the early 2000s. I always remember and thought Nugz and his accomplice "Myria" were the villains.


I remember people like nugz or whatever their name, they like to FSOD and like to jump to every ship, especially the JP ship and fsod them. In my years of playing PSO on Sega servers, I haven't seen a JP person fsoding other people.

Also KR don't have a huge hacking problem either but they use KSSN for every account so its a bit harder.

Same, I always remember JP servers being far more peaceful and polite in comparison to the US Vega ship (I think that's what the first ship was called).

[Naria]

I love the game... Loved it since ver1 on DC... it's where I met my husband, and pretty much all the things that turned and changed in my life are because of this game. So for some of us playing it is nostalgic.... It's people like Broomop that make me want to choke them... I don't wish to see anything bad come about because of a slim few people (especially him) that don't deserve credit for being an idiot on a game because they can't find anything better to do with their lives... We just have to prove that jerks like him are not in any way what any of the rest of us are represented by and we believe in enjoying a game for what it is not for what we can hack into and cheat from.

[Recon Tactical]

I will never understand why people find it more fun to manipulate a game's code and give themselves all of the good end-game gear with the simple push of a button. The journey to obtain the loot in a legit fashion is so much more fun and satisfying.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

Why the black hats have to be the attackers :(
Jokes aside.

Could they really restrict gameplay to japan?
Didn't know how that work for say.....japanese speaking people who live outside the country....
Or I guess that doesnt matter...

And don't know if this means anything but saw this yesterday while Broomop was talking
Idk what he talking about but the fact that there was people behind the counter kind of makes me wonder
He was talking about something can't remembr didn't stay long enough to pay much attention

Edit: Oh the picture caught it....guess that god mode was that video on youtube on the first page...

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/jaye3rd89/Phantasy%20Star%20Online%202/pso20120426_182341_002.jpg

[Shakuri]

I really hate the way the majority of Japanese are thinking on this subject. It's this blatant mistrust of other nations that breeds war and, consequently, death. They need to grow up, see that we're all people, and if judge, judge individuals on their actions and not the whole.

the majority?

[KaoPyro]

Why the black hats have to be the attackers :(
Jokes aside.

Could they really restrict gameplay to japan?
Didn't know how that work for say.....japanese speaking people who live outside the country....
Or I guess that doesnt matter...

yeah, IP addresses are mostly country specific, so blocking them is a quick fix. It's still pretty easy to get around, but it'd eliminate at least half the outside player base.

[KaoPyro]

the majority?

That's what it sounded like. Man I really suck at my facts when it comes to cross language referencing. sorry. I'll step out of this fight now.

[LK1721]

Honestly, I think that if SEGA didn't want us there, they would've come up with a way to boot us all out. (or rather, most of us)

Not saying we really SHOULD be there, but still.

On the hacking topic, I just wish they would stop using GameGuard, which would solve many hacking problems just by doing that.

[Shakuri]

My thing is, it isn't as if there aren't glaringly obvious "hackers" (skiddies) on the JP side as well. Not many, but they're there. The difference is that they aren't complete attention whores.

[KaoPyro]

My thing is, it isn't as if there aren't glaringly obvious "hackers" (skiddies) on the JP side as well. Not many, but they're there. The difference is that they aren't complete attention whores.

Ahh, Americans... the world's attention whores.:-P

[Dark Emerald EXE]

My knowledge on networking is rather limited to homes but couldn't they have figured that out from the beginning what accounts where coming from out the country via IP address?

Idk if it works this way but sure they could of easily had a filter out their to monitor that and not to invite those outside the country if they really wanted to....

[Aewyn]

Ahh, Americans... the world's attention whores.:-PHahaha, if you think that, you haven't done a lot of traveling... Now the Japanese tourists, THEY are attention whores.

[Kion]

Translating some of the posts from the board posted in the OP. I was pretty impressed; most of the japanese posters didn't have any issues with foreigners (chinese, korean, ect included).

The arguments for us revolved around:
- so non-japanese people like PSO too. what's wrong with that?
- if they're not doing any harm, then who really cares?
- if they can't speak japanese, then maybe try writing simple english to communicate
- another poster said there was someone who could translate in his party and he had a pretty good time doing runs with people from outside of japan.

the against arguments suggested
- accessing PSO2 from outside Japan makes the ping really high and puts unnecessary stress on the servers
- if you want to play on the japanese, that's fine, but freaking speak japanese
- one person suggested having a japanese capture in the client to keep non-japanese people from accessing

cheating wasn't brought up at all (or at least in the 40 posts or more that i read). most of the jp players seemed to realize it's a non issue for the majority of players. I think the best argument was that, even if you block IP addrsses; there are ways around that and you'd be effectively kicking all of the foreigners off except the hackers.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Ahh, Americans... the world's attention whores.:-P

if you look at the youtube video it says broomopUK

i feel like he may not be not american

but with that said, i do not disagree with you (unless you were implying that broomop is american, then i would) americans, or more specifically the american government, likes attention.

STOP RIGHT THERE, WORLD POLICE AMERICA IS HERE TO PUT YOUR INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL HANDS IN CUFFS!

[Triple_S]

I think Word Select would be a good feature to bring back. Would help a lot of communication issues... especially given how awful the US educational system is when it comes to language options. One basically has to wait until college to learn something that isn't Spanish (maybe with a French or German option if you're lucky), and that isn't even a requirement until sometime between grade 9 and 12 in a lot of areas.

[Rauten]

- accessing PSO2 from outside Japan makes the ping really high and puts unnecessary stress on the servers

*Starts headbutting his desk* Could somebody that understands japanese PLEAAAASSEEEE explain to them why this isn't an issue? please? This really gets my blood boiling...

Also, isn't the whole point of a Beta, as well as the incentives to now play in Ship6, to stress the damn servers?!



I think Word Select would be a good feature to bring back.

A thousand times this. Just like Symbol Chat, Word Select needs to return.

[KaoPyro]

My knowledge on networking is rather limited to homes but couldn't they have figured that out from the beginning what accounts where coming from out the country via IP address?

Idk if it works this way but sure they could of easily had a filter out their to monitor that and not to invite those outside the country if they really wanted to....

So here's the breakdown from a graduating Com Sci major. The answer is yes. Easily. Which means they either didn't think about it or don't mind that much.

The real key is, if Japanese is their target audience there's a certain point where maintaining customer satisfaction outweighs expanding the market. If they feel like they will lose their intended audience, then they will take steps to satisfy them. PR is politics. At that point you will see us booted in some way shape or form. Hopefully though, our blatant disregard for their local only rule shows them they have a true international market and will localize the game.

[KaoPyro]

if you look at the youtube video it says broomopUK

i feel like he may not be not american

but with that said, i do not disagree with you (unless you were implying that broomop is american, then i would) americans, or more specifically the american government, likes attention.

STOP RIGHT THERE, WORLD POLICE AMERICA IS HERE TO PUT YOUR INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL HANDS IN CUFFS!

"If you have the ability to do good, you have the responsibility to do good."

Isn't that the quote, or did I miss something... again....?

Edit: ok, I really need to stop double posting. It's just I got nothing to do during work ;.;

Edit 2:

- accessing PSO2 from outside Japan makes the ping really high and puts unnecessary stress on the servers

This argument is really full of headdesk. The strain on the servers comes from traffic. It doesn't matter where the traffic originates from. Handling traffic is also a very important part of managing an mmo. We're really doing SEGA a favor by increasing the amount of traffic their servers are receiving. If only I could speak Japanese.

[Demon-]

You know broomop probably made this thread just to show off.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Hopefully though, our blatant disregard for their local only rule shows them they have a true international market and will localize the game.

ugh, they have a very small, niche market. imo this game is more entertaining than gw2 / blade and soul / tera. while gw2 is close, it's core gameplay is not like pso2 (imo less fun). pso2 is definitely light years ahead of bns / tera since the combat in both of those games is basically point and click boredom.

but nobody knows about pso2 even though it clearly has more interesting gameplay. everybody just keeps going guislookit tera guis lookit bns guis lookit gw2 (gw2 is reasonable).

nobodys saying guidlookitpso2 cause nobody even knows it exists lollll

[soulpimpwizzurd]

"If you have the ability to do good, you have the responsibility to do good."

Isn't that the quote, or did I miss something... again....?

Edit: ok, I really need to stop double posting. It's just I got nothing to do during work ;.;

WE ARE AMERICA, SINCE WE HAVE THE POWER WE WILL BE JUSSSSTIIIIIIIIICE

"hey look whats that" *picks up*

ryuuk appears behind america

"IT'S A DEATH NOTE 8D"

[Dark Emerald EXE]

the against arguments suggested
- accessing PSO2 from outside Japan makes the ping really high and puts unnecessary stress on the servers
- if you want to play on the japanese, that's fine, but freaking speak japanese
- one person suggested having a japanese capture in the client to keep non-japanese people from accessing

1. Is that true?
2. Seems rather hurtful to say seeing that it shows that people outside of Japan are also interested in the game and hoping for a release....and I'm sure if US version came out....most would just play on that...(maybe)
3. What's a japanese client capture?


I actually had fun playing with the japanese players I came across...One i remember playing with...his/her english wasn't 100% but it was very close and some JP players came in and didn't know what i was saying but he was able to translate...

I've had no issues yet with anyone I've played with.... either US or JP...And i've actually befriended some JP players :)

[KaoPyro]

WE ARE AMERICA, SINCE WE HAVE THE POWER WE WILL BE JUSSSSTIIIIIIIIICE

"hey look whats that" *picks up*

ryuuk appears behind america

"IT'S A DEATH NOTE 8D"

lol. awesome

[Kion]

this made me lol


nashi(c7591a5e)2012-04-27 21:23:05
セガにチートの対策だぁ…？
んなもんできるわきゃねーだろ！！
PSOからチーターに白旗振って
さらにチーターに会いに行って協力仰いだら断られた逸話があるんだぜ？
あと代表からしてチートを裏技的なものつってたからな？

[Aewyn]

I think Word Select would be a good feature to bring back. Would help a lot of communication issues... especially given how awful the US educational system is when it comes to language options. One basically has to wait until college to learn something that isn't Spanish (maybe with a French or German option if you're lucky), and that isn't even a requirement until sometime between grade 9 and 12 in a lot of areas.Well, I took Japanese all four years of high school and some in college. I'm an American. So, yeah... not every school has a lack of language options! That learning, however long ago now (what, more than ten years?) has served me well, and still does in this beta, heh. :>

[Rauten]

this made me lol

Googles translates it like this:


Sega Da~a measures to Cheat?
Ne Wakya domain name will be massaged! !
Waving white flag in the cheetah from PSO
I'll have refused anecdote After duck cheetah went to see further cooperation?
I have a cramp in my things from the cheat tricks of the representatives from the after?

Be careful people, the Duck and the Cheetah are cooperating.

P.S. Could you please tell us what it actually says? I'm curious.

[KaoPyro]

セガにチートの対策だぁ…？
んなもんできるわきゃねーだろ！！
PSOからチーターに白旗振って
さらにチーターに会いに行って協力仰いだら断られた逸話があるんだぜ？
あと代表からしてチートを裏技的なものつってたからな？

(google translate)
Sega Da~a measures to Cheat?
Ne Wakya domain name will be massaged! !
Waving white flag in the cheetah from PSO
I'll have refused anecdote After duck cheetah went to see further cooperation?
I have a cramp in my things from the cheat tricks of the representatives from the after?


lolwut??? exactly how accurate is this translation?

[Zyrusticae]

*Starts headbutting his desk* Could somebody that understands japanese PLEAAAASSEEEE explain to them why this isn't an issue? please? This really gets my blood boiling...

Also, isn't the whole point of a Beta, as well as the incentives to now play in Ship6, to stress the damn servers?!


This argument is really full of headdesk. The strain on the servers comes from traffic. It doesn't matter where the traffic originates from. Handling traffic is also a very important part of managing an mmo. We're really doing SEGA a favor by increasing the amount of traffic their servers are receiving. If only I could speak Japanese.
Inorite?! Just reading that made me do a /facepalm. It'd have been a /faceplant if I didn't respect my face so much.

[Zeota]

3. What's a japanese client capture?



A CAPTCHA, one of those image puzzles a lot of sites use to see if the person using said site is, in fact, a person.

[Kion]

*Starts headbutting his desk* Could somebody that understands japanese PLEAAAASSEEEE explain to them why this isn't an issue? please? This really gets my blood boiling...


Write an explanation and I'll translate it and post it.


1. Is that true?
2. Seems rather hurtful to say seeing that it shows that people outside of Japan are also interested in the game and hoping for a release....and I'm sure if US version came out....most would just play on that...(maybe)
3. What's a japanese client capture?


1. Apparently not.
2. I think this is part of a larger issue of how Sega decides to handle their servers. PSO and and PSU had really terrible service and I think even if a local version does come out, this community knows better and will probably play on the JP servers anyways.
As a solution, I think that all severs should be upgraded and managed in japan, rather than by region. The language you set your client dictates what server you can log into.
I know I'm not the only american who prefers and Jp client and there are tons of japanese people who'd love to play with foreigners to practice their english and experience a different culture.
3. A japanese capture would be one of those text input boxes where a word comes up and you have to type it in a box. by restricting the language to japanese would somehow help ensure only japanese people could access the client. which seems pretty stupid as there are tons of japanese people who cant read kanji, so it would only go so far as to minorly inconceivience people to learn hiragana/katakana.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

セガにチートの対策だぁ…？
んなもんできるわきゃねーだろ！！
PSOからチーターに白旗振って
さらにチーターに会いに行って協力仰いだら断られた逸話があるんだぜ？
あと代表からしてチートを裏技的なものつってたからな？




lolwut??? exactly how accurate is this translation?
Babylon's Translations gives me this


Sega cheat to take measures against the file ... ? do not do not can camp combination! ! PSO cheetah from the white flag is waved cheetah meet if asking for cooperation was turned down is there? After a representative from turned to cheat as from being one?

This one kind of makes more sense
Maybe cheetah is cheater?

[Kion]

セガにチートの対策だぁ…？
んなもんできるわきゃねーだろ！！
PSOからチーターに白旗振って
さらにチーターに会いに行って協力仰いだら断られた逸話があるんだぜ？
あと代表からしてチートを裏技的なものつってたからな？

(google translate)
Sega Da~a measures to Cheat?
Ne Wakya domain name will be massaged! !
Waving white flag in the cheetah from PSO
I'll have refused anecdote After duck cheetah went to see further cooperation?
I have a cramp in my things from the cheat tricks of the representatives from the after?


lolwut??? exactly how accurate is this translation?

You're expecting Sega to formulate a strategy against cheating!!?
Like hell that's ever going to happen. They've been bending over and waving the white flag to cheaters since pso.
sega asked them to cooperate before, but like hell that's going to happen.

[KaoPyro]

You're expecting Sega to formulate a strategy against cheating!!?
Like hell that's ever going to happen. They've been bending over and waving the white flag to cheaters since pso.
sega asked them to cooperate before, but like hell that's going to happen.

much better. That does it. Soon as I graduate, I'm learning Japanese.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

Ok....so I'm lost....is that post thread suppose to be about foreigners being on the server or hacking? Seems like it's all over the place....:S


I have a question.....does sega ever have GMs in it's game?
I know when I played ffxi 9/10 if you was cheating you'd get found out sooner or later...

Cheating (by cheating I mean hacking) was kind of unheard of for the most part seeing that there was GMs on duty monitoring stuff....and even then you could report people in game and depending on the level of the offense it would of been dealt with immediately

[Archandes]

it's better to have cheater in close beta since they have time to fix it.

[Aewyn]

Kion, you're probably a better translator than I am. If I asked you to translate something for me so I could post it up on the JP CBT forum, would you mind doing that?

[Kion]

Reading that thread more there's also this:


[NEW]ｄａｎｎｙ１２３５４５(db29b75f)2012-04-27 16:36:04
in fact, those people are not Chinese they are Taiwanese and hongkongese.
In a Taiwan forum, we also discuss about some topic like some of us use Chinese to talk in the game, and we already mention that we need to give respect to all of you because we know that we are not allow to be here base on the regulation. most of us feel sorry about some of us don't know much about Japanese culture、 like say よろしく　こんにちは　お疲れ様 . the most important point is we love this game, in this game i meet a lot of kind and friendly Japanese player and they don't really mind i'm a Japanese or not, i want to say thank you to those guy and i'm very happy to play with you.
P.s forgive me that 僕な日本語の実力は弱い i can't finish this article in japanese.




zyuga(bd2e2979)2012-04-27 16:56:56
>ｄａｎｎｙ１２３５４５

I don't think you fully understand what people are discussing in this thread.
The thing is, the rule for closed beta says you cannot play if you're not living in Japan.

This is a test, and you cannot take role as a test player if you don't understand Japanese.

It's great that people love this game, but if so, those people can play it and have fun when it's released.


To be racist, this seems pretty typical of my experience with a lot of japanese people. rules are rules. One time i googled (in japanese) "why is japanese porn censored?" and the only responses i found in all of the forums were "because it's a law". I mean yes it's a law, but the was no discussion on what logical foundation that the law is based upon; it's a rule that must be followed.
I find a lot of that with this response. True the point of sega having the closed beta is to test the game and the servers with in a set community and get feedback on how to improve it. that being said, even though it's written that 'you must reside in japan' to enter the beta, i think is sega was really serious about that they should have blocked the IP addresses to begin with. everything else is gravy.

[Ryudo]

So here's the breakdown from a graduating Com Sci major. The answer is yes. Easily. Which means they either didn't think about it or don't mind that much.

The real key is, if Japanese is their target audience there's a certain point where maintaining customer satisfaction outweighs expanding the market. If they feel like they will lose their intended audience, then they will take steps to satisfy them. PR is politics. At that point you will see us booted in some way shape or form. Hopefully though, our blatant disregard for their local only rule shows them they have a true international market and will localize the game.

secret option 3: IP blocking is easily bypassed by the people who want to cause trouble and would only block out the legit people anyway

[xBladeM6x]

it's better to have cheater in close beta since they have time to fix it.
As long as they're using GameGuard, it doesn't matter. They can spend the next 8+ months trying to make the game "unhackable" but as long as GameGuard is their primary way of doing so, there's no hope of that.

[Kion]

Kion, you're probably a better translator than I am. If I asked you to translate something for me so I could post it up on the JP CBT forum, would you mind doing that?

i could probably hammer something out.

[Kazzi]

Ok....so I'm lost....is that post thread suppose to be about foreigners being on the server or hacking? Seems like it's all over the place....:S


I have a question.....does sega ever have GMs in it's game?
I know when I played ffxi 9/10 if you was cheating you'd get found out sooner or later...

Cheating (by cheating I mean hacking) was kind of unheard of for the most part seeing that there was GMs on duty monitoring stuff....

I was chatting to a GM (they had a yellow name and a different model) in block 1 back when the beta first opened. So there are GMs around, they just don't show themselves very often. I think they have the ability to go invisible?

[darkfalzsux]

Still? This guy has been around since DC, has always been one to post exploits and hacks. If it's a kid it's one thing, but this guy has to be at least 25 now, figured he would've grown out of it by now.

[KaoPyro]

secret option 3: IP blocking is easily bypassed by the people who want to cause trouble and would only block out the legit people anyway

In an earlier post I said something to the same effect. And I agree completely. Although... at this point I'd likely be one of the people that goes around the IP block. I'm just a terrible person like that, but you didn't hear it from me. ^^;

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I was chatting to a GM (they had a yellow name and a different model) in block 1 back when the beta first opened. So there are GMs around, they just don't show themselves very often. I think they have the ability to go invisible?
If their GMs are like the ones from ffxi.....by normal means they CAN'T be seen unless they present themselves to you... but what I want to know is....can you actually send a report to one?


Since the game has internal video... hypothetically speaking...
One could just record X individual doing something that violates policy and the games integrity.
Example would be that video of Broomap doing that thing with the rifle and the rockbear thing.

And send it to GM in game if request of...I mean what's better proof then catching the person in the act? Don't have to go by "he said she said"

[Aewyn]

i could probably hammer something out.Mind if I PM it to you, then?

[Rauten]

Write an explanation and I'll translate it and post it.

Ok, let's try this...


In a server-client structure, like this game uses, the latency of other players does not affect yours, or the server.

Let's use an example: A party that consist of a Japanese and a US player.
The Japanese player has a very good connection, and since he's close to the server, he has something like... 12 ms of latency against the server.
The US player, being much farther away, and having a so-so connection, has about 350 ms against the server, almost 30 times that of the Japanese player.

Now, when both go down to Forest, the Japanese player sends his data to the server, indicating his status, armour, weapon, position, what he's doing, etc., and the server sends him back pretty much everything else: what area he is in, what enemies or boxes are around him, and what the US player is doing as well as his statistics.
The US player goes through the same process: he sends his data to the server, and the server in return updates him on everything else.

As you can see, the connection of both players never interact directly with each other, they always use the server as a mediator.

The Japanese player may see the US player "warping" around, a clear sign of latency, but that's because the US player's connection takes too long to send his details to the server, not because the server can't handle it, or because the Japanese's connection is being affected; servers treat each connection separately.

We admit we're not the intended audience of the beta, and that we're not connecting from within Japan. We merely want to clear the (wrong) idea that our presence is affecting your connections negatively. We're simply PSO veterans, many of us from the old days of the DreamCast, and we merely want to express our interest and delight in this new iteration of our beloved saga.

Thank you.

Thanks for offering for this, if it's too much of a wall of text, then don't sweat it.

[Aewyn]

Mine will be much shorter than that, haha.

[Rauten]

Mine will be much shorter than that, haha.

Yeah, I might have gone a liiiiittle bit overboard, but I'm guessing the people complaining about us generating lag don't really have much technical knowledge of computer networks, so I wanted the explanation to depend as little as possible on technicalities.

[Aewyn]

I don't think starting off with a lesson about how computers work is really the way to bridge the gap here. Just saying. No offense intended!

[Kion]

it's not a wall of text. it's mostly the subject matter, but i'll give it a shot.


I don't think starting off with a lesson about how computers work is really the way to bridge the gap here. Just saying. No offense intended!

But i think one of the major problems is a lack of communication between the two communities. the more we can reach out and bridge that gap the better.

[Rauten]

I don't think starting off with a lesson about how computers work is really the way to bridge the gap here. Just saying. No offense intended!

God I hope they don't take it the wrong way...


it's not a wall of text. it's mostly the subject matter, but i'll give it a shot.

Thanks, seriously. If you're ever near Bilbao, Spain, look me up and I'll invite you to lunch.

[Taitu]

The best thing you can do honestly is play with the Japanese community. A large majority of the foreign community doesn't want anything to do with the Japanese players, which understandably the language gap is a large deterring factor. Regardless I imagine almost all foreign players who arsed themselves to get this far in the Japanese closed beta have some interest in the Japanese language.

That being said almost everyone here should know some of the most basic phrases in Japanese. Even small gestures when playing with them will get you by, a friendly greeting, a congratulations when they level, and minding your manners when they help you out. Even if you aren't comfortable/don't want to switch your keyboard to Japanese they will understand you if you type these things to them in Romanjii.

Just receiving the respect of you trying to converse with them will be appreciated by them. Not to mention that you playing with them and them not experiencing lag will make them realize that the foreign players aren't causing them lag directly.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I have fun playing with people who speak language opposite of mine.
I haven't had any issues with any JP players they was all friendly and welcoming. Some didn't know all english but they did know key words. And that was enough :)

Having a auto-translate function would be nice to have....

I couldn't even imagine how would of got half the stuff I've done in ffxi with JP players w/o auto-translate lol

[Aewyn]

God I hope they don't take it the wrong way...The JPs can be pretty reasonable. Some will fly off the handle, but in general they are a lot like a lot of us, they just speak a different language. As long as the spirit of your words is kind I don't imagine they'll take it to TOO badly.

[Azure Knight]

I've always enjoyed spending time with Japanese people both on the original PSO and during my travels around the Far East.

The Dutch on the other hand.....:chuck-ball:

[Taitu]

I've always enjoyed spending time with Japanese people both on the original PSO and during my travels around the Far East.

The Dutch on the other hand.....:chuck-ball:

I c wut u did thar

[SolRiver]

I'm not surprised there is a cheat out already.

The first few things I thought about when I get on PSO2 and see the combat system, I was like "hmm... this system is going to be pretty vulnerable... I hope sega etc etc..."

Well, look like the thread exploded already. However, I will say "culture difference" sum up the answer for this thread title. Programmer developing schools, ethic, language, whole 9 yards.

[NoiseHERO]

I could only sit through the first pages of this... damn you guys are really good at displaying your ignorance and misunderstanding sensetivity sometimes(all the time.) Also if it's only that same few people hacking, I'm curious if there's Japanese hackers too, just that they're not running around doing it for attention. >_>

[SolRiver]

I could only sit through the first pages of this... damn you guys are really good at displaying your ignorance and misunderstanding sensetivity sometimes(all the time.) Also if it's only that same few people hacking, I'm curious if there's Japanese hackers too, just that they're not running around doing it for attention. >_>

There are, but a lot less in numbers. (a lot less programmer population in general in Japan)

Computer nerd isn't one of the highly praised title there as far as I know.

[terrell707]

This thread made me cry a little. :(

[Eggobandit]

MMO Hacking Guidelines by Me:

1) gonna happen, get over it

2) rummaging through files is not hacking. Also, refer to #1.

3) Blaming a specific culture of people for hacking is almost as dumb as taking mediocre precautions to avoid hacking in the first place.


4) Likewise, blaming a specific culture for the actions of no more than five individuals at best is equally stupid.


5) Continued from #4 -- If there is no reason to hack it, then there is no reason to hack it. All the exploits will be discovered by this small group of smart people anyway...


6) Piggyback off #5 and #4 -- ...but this is usually moot point, because #1.



(perfect example being the Playstation 3. OtherOS took MOST of the reasons away from the people actually capable of hacking the playstation 3 from hacking the playstation 3. However, the moment it is removed, the system security is completely destroyed, as it was simply in their path to restoring homebrew capabilities to the console.)




--------------

In PSO2's case:

a) If the English pop had information directed their way, we would have far less of a reason to break guidelines by intruding.

b) If the Closed Beta client had been translated into english to begin with, like those 3 fans responsible for the english patch would never have to mess with those files.

c) By attempting to block us, all you're doing is filtering the less dangerous people from the actually potentially dangerous people. You give them more incentive to do funny things to your security measures.

d) although none of this matters because #1.

[Kion]

In a server-client structure, like this game uses, the latency of other players does not affect yours, or the server.
このゲームが使ってるクライアント・サーバー構成では、他のプレイヤーのレイテンシはサーバーと自分の接続 と関係ありません。

Let's use an example: A party that consist of a Japanese and a US player.
The Japanese player has a very good connection, and since he's close to the server, he has something like... 12 ms of latency against the server.
The US player, being much farther away, and having a so-so connection, has about 350 ms against the server, almost 30 times that of the Japanese player.

例をあげると日本人とアメリカ人の二人PTを取り上げます。日本人のネットの接続は早くてかつサーバーに近 いので、レイテンシは12msとします。そひてアメリカのプレイヤーのネットは遅いし、サーバーから離れて いるので、彼のレイテンシは日本人の30倍、350msとします。

Now, when both go down to Forest, the Japanese player sends his data to the server, indicating his status, armour, weapon, position, what he's doing, etc., and the server sends him back pretty much everything else: what area he is in, what enemies or boxes are around him, and what the US player is doing as well as his statistics.

二人で森に出かけます。日本人のプレイヤーは彼のクライアントからさーバーに彼のステータスが送られます： 彼がどの武器、どの防具、どこで何をしてるか、そしてサーバーからはその他のデータを彼のクライアントに送 ります：エリアはどうなってる、ボックスの中には何が入ってるそしてアメリカのプレイヤーは今どこで何をや ってる。

The US player goes through the same process: he sends his data to the server, and the server in return updates him on everything else.

アメリカにプレイヤーも同様、サーバーと全く同じやり取りをします。

As you can see, the connection of both players never interact directly with each other, they always use the server as a mediator.

見える通り、プレイヤーは直接的にお互いからデータを送信しません。真ん中にあるサーバーからデータを交換 してことに過ぎません。

The Japanese player may see the US player "warping" around, a clear sign of latency, but that's because the US player's connection takes too long to send his details to the server, not because the server can't handle it, or because the Japanese's connection is being affected; servers treat each connection separately.

つまり、日本のプレイヤーにはアメリカのプレイヤーは瞬間移動してるようにみえますが、それは単にアメリカ のプレイヤーのポジションをサーバーに送るのは遅いだけで、サーバーの方で更新され次第日本のクライアント の方でアップデートされます。それはサーバーに負担かけているからではなく、単にデータが送信されるのに時 間がかかるだけです。

We admit we're not the intended audience of the beta, and that we're not connecting from within Japan. We merely want to clear the (wrong) idea that our presence is affecting your connections negatively. We're simply PSO veterans, many of us from the old days of the DreamCast, and we merely want to express our interest and delight in this new iteration of our beloved saga.

私たちはこのベータの広告ターゲットではないと認めます。日本内から接続してもないと認めます。ただアメリ カから接続することでサーバーに余計な負担を掛けている誤解を解放したいです。私たちの多くはドリームキャ ストのPSOからずっとやてるベテランで単に次のなるPhantasy Star Onlineゲームを自分たちで経験したいのです。

よろしくお願いします。

Thank you.

[HeartBreak301]

After reading this whole thread I just kind of headdesked. I realize to some of you Broomop may be an old thing, but I've had to deal with his shit enough in the past 1 or 2 years and there could probably be bigger threats out there. I've kinda just learned to ignore him as a clown.

And Crono, surprised to see you here. Figured they'd just kick you in the teeth and throw you out the door like Lee.

[cammy17]

Even if Sega implement a geo-location IP block the easy option is to simple get a vpn in a japanese range. Just use that an your ip address is constantly hidden behind a japanese allocated address rendering an IP block useless.

[Rauten]

Well, I went to the BBS to post the text Kion so kindly translated, to find this as one of the latest posts:


I don't think you understand what we are talking about at all.
We are talking about the RULES and REGULATIONS, not lag.

The MAIN problem is, you don't understand Japanese properly, so how can you test the game properly?

You can't even reply to our BBS discussion properly.

This is NOT racist.
This is NOT bigot.
This is the rules and regulations that SEGA have made.

YOU NEED TO BE LIVING IN JAPAN.

However, if you understand Japanese and don't disturb the test, then some Japanese players agree that it's okay to play.

Woops, so much for the whole lag thing...

[NoiseHERO]

Daaaaaayyyyyyuuuuummmmmm~

That one made the WHOLE room quiet.

[Vashyron]

Lol, if Sega cared about enforcing their own rule of JP only they would of IP blocked already or shown to care about the huge influx of English players on Ship 2 Block 20.

They obviously don't care.

[HeartBreak301]

I don't think you understand what we are talking about at all.
We are talking about the RULES and REGULATIONS, not lag.

The MAIN problem is, you don't understand Japanese properly, so how can you test the game properly?

You can't even reply to our BBS discussion properly.

This is NOT racist.
This is NOT bigot.
This is the rules and regulations that SEGA have made.

YOU NEED TO BE LIVING IN JAPAN.

However, if you understand Japanese and don't disturb the test, then some Japanese players agree that it's okay to play.
Why am I not surprised at this response?

And I wasn't aware that all the bugs and glitches are language specific. I guess the game is perfectly OK aside from a few typos.

But seriously, hasn't anyone heard of a translator or interpreter?

[NoiseHERO]

I do think anyone invited should be allowed to play, but all these people running around with english patches and crowding up one ship and not really doing anything useful for the test, and even asking for EXTENSIONS, thinking they they're playing the full game. And now people are arguing against the rules... Yeah, a lot of people kind of forgot to know their place.

But something tells me not just US, but a LOT of people from all over were obviously let in on purpose. They basically made it so like 400,000 people could get in to begin with, and this whole time they've just been stress testing the servers.

[Rauten]

They probably do care, a lot, and that's why they haven't blocked us, we're potential customers, VERY potential customers, but as KaoPyro said earlier in this thread:


The real key is, if Japanese is their target audience there's a certain point where maintaining customer satisfaction outweighs expanding the market. If they feel like they will lose their intended audience, then they will take steps to satisfy them. PR is politics. At that point you will see us booted in some way shape or form. Hopefully though, our blatant disregard for their local only rule shows them they have a true international market and will localize the game.



Why am I not surprised at this response?

It's actually not a response, I'm afraid I wasn't clear enough; I was checking the lasts posts in the thread, just in case there was something in a language I could understand, and lo and behold, found that post, dated just a few hours ago I believe. So yeah, I haven't posted it, doesn't make much sense anymore.

I'm sorry for that, Kion; all your translation work for nothing. My apologies.

[Kion]

I quoted that post a page ago. And I think it's complete bullshit. You don't need to understand japanese to play the game. That guy is being a huge bigot. As for the part about rules and regulations, if sega didn't want people from outside of japan to participate in the beta, they should have set up precautions.

Actually a few replies underneith that there's a reply;


(paraphrased) I was in a party the other day with a french exchange student living in japan. His japanese wasn't very good but we had a good enough time. so that part of the rule really doesn't matter, you can be living in japan and still not understand japanese every well, i think you should let who ever wants to play, play


seriously over 80% of the japanese who post in the thread are either open to foreigners playing or simply don't mind. it's a pretty narrow percentage of japanese who have their panties in a bunch about foreigners playing. and i have news for them, they really need to shut the fuck up! does it really matter what language people are talking if your not going to party with them anyways? is it really that big a deal to catch english (or otherwise) convo's on your screen every so often?

[Vashyron]

They basically let you invite anyone with the 3 invite system, stress testing is also a form of testing the servers, even the ones whos only intention is to play the game is helping with that.

Look at the Ship 6 scenario as well, they obviously want to stress test a ship to see it's capacity so they threw the 500 fun incentive.

I expect that the "JP residents only" is there for nothing else but to say we can't give support to anyone else but the Japanese. Just look at PSU JP, no IP block and they are fine with English players.

[Sixoul]

I actually agree with the japanese, if you're on their server you should speak japanese at least so you can be productive to the test. But the thing is English speakers get screwed by other languages on our servers as well. So it will happen and you just have to deal with it.

Don't know how many times I've played LoL on a team of spanish speakers who refused to speak english and would speak english only when they wanted to rage at me for not helping them when they told me to speak spanish. It's quite annoying. But it happens so can't do anything about it unless the person in charge of the servers kicks them.

[Xenobia]

Hurray on the powerful Gameguard who guarded us... !

[terrell707]

I wonder if Sakai will mention anything about this in his Fan Briefing. If this is a huge problem/concern, I'm sure he'll mention SOMETHING about it.

[Kazzi]

I don't think you understand what we are talking about at all.
We are talking about the RULES and REGULATIONS, not lag.

The MAIN problem is, you don't understand Japanese properly, so how can you test the game properly?

You can't even reply to our BBS discussion properly.

This is NOT racist.
This is NOT bigot.
This is the rules and regulations that SEGA have made.

YOU NEED TO BE LIVING IN JAPAN.

However, if you understand Japanese and don't disturb the test, then some Japanese players agree that it's okay to play.

This is kind of funny because I know a lot of English (as first language) players who ARE living in Japan and ARE spending their time in block 20 with the rest of the English players. Whilst it's true there are a lot of us who used invalid addresses, SEGA did nothing to verify them.

[RocSage]

I thought I covered why that reasoning was crap n the other thread. Oh well. I'm tempted to go over there and explain it to them, but just like most forums I doubt it would do much good and I'd have to figure out how to speak japanese darn it.

[SuKKrl]

I don't really agree with their reasoning but I think it only got to this point due to some blatant spamming on lobbies.

I know you're supposed to talk in lobbies but talking is different than sending 10 images per minute and keep repeating the same shouts in between them. Its pretty different than what I saw *most* PSU importers doing while I played that. Its only a minority that does this but there is a natural tendency to focus on the extreme examples.

Also, a lot of non jp players do that knowing that there was that rule (which I also believe means only that support is only for locals) and that surely won't get us any points with them.

It can get so bad that playing in ship 20 can be simply annoying.

[Cyrusnagisa]

I thought I covered why that reasoning was crap n the other thread. Oh well. I'm tempted to go over there and explain it to them, but just like most forums I doubt it would do much good and I'd have to figure out how to speak japanese darn it.

I was completely honest about all my info when I signed up, and I still got in.... ;p

and yeah the spammers bother everyone I am sure...... I hate pic-chat spammers -.-

[Shakuri]

That's because it's a bunch of Uni 2 dweebs from US PSU. They never played the game, they just sat in the lobby spamming all day and doing the best they can to get as much attention as possible.

Once the game actually comes out I doubt they'll be around.

[Anon_Fire]

From now on guys, don't ever post anything about how to get into the Open Beta. Let them figure it out themselves and don't post anything on other sites or forums.

[NoiseHERO]

That's because it's a bunch of Uni 2 dweebs from US PSU. They never played the game, they just sat in the lobby spamming all day and doing the best they can to get as much attention as possible.

Once the game actually comes out I doubt they'll be around.

A lot of those people were weirdos and freaks that barely played the game, but I myself spent a lot of time there and enjoyed it, if anything those people spent 10 dollars a month to use the game as a chatroom and that's AFTER they legitimately played the game for a good 4 years, or at least that's MY story. :/

So no need to go THERE, now. >0

I'm sure it won't be much different when the full game comes out, ESPECIALLY since it's gonna be free, and you can't throw in PSO superiority either, cause I know people lobby rat in that game too! PHOTON CHAIRS???

[Eggobandit]

Daaaaaayyyyyyuuuuummmmmm~

That one made the WHOLE room quiet.


yeah that was my reaction to that one.



yeah that pretty much wraps everything up, honestly. We've tested and found formula and all kinds of stuff, but we' document it here and not on the BBS so.....



them kicking us out is justified. There...really just isn't a reason to.

[KaoPyro]

I was completely honest about all my info when I signed up, and I still got in.... ;p

and yeah the spammers bother everyone I am sure...... I hate pic-chat spammers -.-

lol so was I. No weeding out the honest ones.

[Cyrusnagisa]

A lot of those people were weirdos and freaks that barely played the game, but I myself spent a lot of time there and enjoyed it, if anything those people spent 10 dollars a month to use the game as a chatroom and that's AFTER they legitimately played the game for a good 4 years, or at least that's MY story. :/

So no need to go THERE, now. >0

I'm sure it won't be much different when the full game comes out, ESPECIALLY since it's gonna be free, and you can't throw in PSO superiority either, cause I know people lobby rat in that game too! PHOTON CHAIRS???

PHOTON CHAIR RACE!!!!!........*wipes eye* I miss those days *sniff*

[Powder Keg]

Do you NOT want to play the game?

Time to buckle down and learn Japanese, I guess.

I wouldn't be tupset if I didn't play it. In my case I don't have as much free time as I used to anyway.



It's global or no sale for a lot of people. The pissy-pants community over in JP (I know it isn't all of them, so chill!) seem to cry and whine nonstop about US players when I can George-Foreman-Guarantee that JP players take part in plenty of nonsense as well.

There is absolutely no need to separate the servers, both morally and financially. It's almost a lock that you'll see the same BS if they're separated again.

[Hakoten]

I don't get people seemingly defending this sort of action.

This isn't acceptable regardless of their nationality. The case here is that's it's always Broomop, it doesn't matter where he's from. He's giving us a bad name, and always has.

[kyuuketsuki]

I don't get people seemingly defending this sort of action.
Defending what action? No really, I'm not sure what you're talking about because there are multiple different topics going on here.
This isn't acceptable regardless of their nationality. The case here is that's it's always Broomop, it doesn't matter where he's from. He's giving us a bad name, and always has.
I don't think anyone has presented any contrary viewpoints. Nobody likes Broomop here, and everyone wants him to leave Phantasy Star (and all online games, really) the hell alone.
There is absolutely no need to separate the servers, both morally and financially. It's almost a lock that you'll see the same BS if they're separated again.
Are you insinuating that, if they do global servers, the "hacking" won't occur? I find that unlikely.

[Triple_S]

I don't think you understand what we are talking about at all.
We are talking about the RULES and REGULATIONS, not lag.

The MAIN problem is, you don't understand Japanese properly, so how can you test the game properly?

You can't even reply to our BBS discussion properly.

This is NOT racist.
This is NOT bigot.
This is the rules and regulations that SEGA have made.

YOU NEED TO BE LIVING IN JAPAN.

However, if you understand Japanese and don't disturb the test, then some Japanese players agree that it's okay to play.

Okay, response time. Wish I could translate this, possibly with a less hostile tone to it (I have a bad habit of seeming hostile when I have absolutely no intentions of being so). I just hope a multilingual Japanese player sees it, understands what I mean, and passes it on.


The topic has changed multiple times, depending on the one posting the message. Not everyone is arguing what was said in the terms of service. Many people have argued that foreign players have caused connection issues, among other things.

Understanding Japanese is not crucial to testing the game out. Errors found by players while testing a closed or open beta tend not to be text-based in nature, or if so are rather obvious to anyone that something is out of the ordinary. A beta also serves to notice possible future balance issues; for example, the Launcher weapon type for Rangers is said to be overly powerful. It doesn't take a knowledge of the Japanese language to fire that weapon, nor does it take a knowledge of Japanese language to see that the Assault Rifle always has to reload after three attacks while the Launcher can be fired infinitely while airborne (this is not good for balance). Besides, communities exist where Japanese-speaking players can provide translated information to use as a reference, including common phrases that would normally be in a "Word Select" feature as with the original PSO.

Again, given the range of discussions involving foreign players, the replies are indeed properly placed. To be honest, no one is on the same page here {I know euphemisms do not translate, but I have no idea how else to word this}, and it is leading to a lot of confusion from both sides.

Because SEGA has yet to take actions to prevent foreigners from participating in the closed beta test, it is difficult to take the "Residents of Japan only" section seriously. It was most likely added in due to the difficulty of a Japanese company providing support to users unable to speak Japanese; adding that "rule" without actually enforcing it is a way to prevent that situation from occurring before they are ready to handle it, without outright preventing potential players from joining.

One last thing: In my experience, foreigners try to keep to themselves most of the time as we are guests on the server and do not wish to offend anyone, or make anyone uncomfortable. This fear of being rude or disliked prevents many foreigners from even attempting to break the language barrier with even simple phrases to try and communicate. We want to communicate with you, we want to have fun together, but we need help and encouragement to do so. Turning us away only makes the situation worse.

Language barriers are so saddening. We need an accurate universal translator...

[Brimcon]

Okay, response time. Wish I could translate this, possibly with a less hostile tone to it (I have a bad habit of seeming hostile when I have absolutely no intentions of being so). I just hope a multilingual Japanese player sees it, understands what I mean, and passes it on.



Language barriers are so saddening. We need an accurate universal translator...

Yes we do, Galactic Common is such a good idea in theory..

[Finalzone]

Discussed in foreigner topic in CBT forum
http://pso2.jp/cbt/bbs/?mode=detail&gid=6023&forum=7


This type of behavior will make easier to request IP blocking, so only Japanese IP can play.
http://youtu.be/Uidzjy-WCU0
http://youtu.be/P5j5NJO77Lg

The fundamental mistake is to blame an entire community for an action committed by an individual. As pointed out by several messages on this topic, applying an IP ban so only Japanese IP can play is repeating the same error from the past. The consequence will be disastrous for not only for the international players but for the local too who will regret to not play with the outsiders.

The hacking case linked in this topic should help Sega of Japan to analyse the security flaw. Gameguard turned out to be a security liability due to its rootkit nature forcing some users to disable antivirus. Maybe using something like ssh will improve that aspect. Take a hint from a Linux distribution like Debian or Fedora. Security through obscurity will never work. Having a community participating to the improvement of product will be very important in long term.

For Sega of Japan, I am very sure some of developers are running on Linux . With the F2P metho, why not expanding that market to these future players. A test of Character Creation showede it can be done. As a bonus, more feedback to improve the game.

[Meena09]

Well i'm and english player and I do not cheat, or hack. Especially not PSO i love this game, but i'm worried that the game will get hacked and that'd be no fun with these multi-party areas where you can't kick the offender out...

wow that's a really disturbing thought.


I thought broomop was dead...hmmm. Anyway I'm going to request to sega that they do something about broomop.

his name should be bleeped out like profanity, the way you guys talk about him.


And yet these are exactly the type of comments people like him look for.

This entire thread is what he looks for it's a trophy that only gets bigger the more we COMPLAIN. All you simply need to do is take a video of a hacker. we can make a montage and get all of them banned.

Like a PSO2 neighborhood watch,
basically if you care about the PSO community show sega that.

[HeartBreak301]

we can make a montage and get all of them banned.

Going to add some generic death metal or bad rave music to that?
Just report them and be done with it.

Also, there's an edit button.

[GeordieP]

This is a test area .. for testing.
Now this / these exploits have been identified they can be removed.

[Powder Keg]

Are you insinuating that, if they do global servers, the "hacking" won't occur? I find that unlikely.

lol no. Did you play PSU? I'm talking about updates and support.

[Cast Soldier]

Well, Why don't we come up with Idea's to stop this form happening (like a "Think Tank" ). And Help Sega figure a new approach on how to deal with this problem. That way both sides can see that where more helping then hurting. Sega could make a lot of $ off the Hacker's if done right and make them pay(in $) for there folly. There are better way's to skin a cat, And we need to help them not just in game play but also in the Security of the game to make it the best game ever.

I'll throw an idea out there an start this off.

Why don't they make a "Potion that's actually a Poison"(I'm playing Skyrim alittle to much.)
Basically the game has a Trojan Horse written into it. It will be written so the game can't function without it, so even if you know its there you can't remove it or the game want play. The Horse will be harmless until you activate it's effects. You activate it's effects by changing the games code(hacking). So most players have to worry, BUT ones that do hack...

Let me explain the effects of this "Potion". When activated it puts the players character(s) in a "God Mode" that is very noticeble, not by the player but everyone else. The player sees the character(s) normally but to everybody sees a bright red silhouette or a neon red outline on the character(the color or how it appears on the character doesn't matter) and the name appears as HACKER. The NPC also refer to the player as HACKER, on second thought they will notice that. The NPC will refer to the character as their name with a small H. Some of the possible "abilites" of this "God Mode".
1. Enemies hit the for 5x regular damage, 10x if crit.
2. Equipment read as negatives(a sword that gives +50 atp would be - 50 atp,etc)
3. Items put in that in the Players Shop are taken for free no matter what price(they have to be taken to GMs in exchange for FUN points)
4. Their Rooms turn into White Rooms which permanently traps their character(s) in.
These next ones are some of my favorites. :D
5. Everytime they use FUN points they are charged REAL money.
6. Everytime some tells them "Good Job" their game crashes.(these words can be set differently), Everytime multiple people(about 5) yell HACKER(atleast within two seconds of each other, in any langauge) their computer crashes.
7. Everytime they save and log off they Get DATA DRAINED. For the slick ones that keep themselves logged in there will be "Emergency Shutdowns" so they could drian themselves or let the servers do it for them.
8. If they complain to the GMs they won't know what's wrong and can do very little or nothing for them(since the outted themelves as HACKERS).

Instead of hacking the game the and ruining everyones game, they hack their own characters an ruin they own time while giving us the pleasure of watching them.

[xBladeM6x]

This is a test area .. for testing.
Now this / these exploits have been identified they can be removed.
Except for the fact that they're using GameGuard. No amount of preparation can stop people from hacking GameGuard very easily.

[CastSoldierFan96]

I'll throw an idea out there an start this off.

Why don't they make a "Potion that's actually a Poison"(I'm playing Skyrim alittle to much.)
Basically the game has a Trojan Horse written into it. It will be written so the game can't function without it, so even if you know its there you can't remove it or the game want play. The Horse will be harmless until you activate it's effects. You activate it's effects by changing the games code(hacking). So most players have to worry, BUT ones that do hack...

Let me explain the effects of this "Potion". When activated it puts the players character(s) in a "God Mode" that is very noticeble, not by the player but everyone else. The player sees the character(s) normally but to everybody sees a bright red silhouette or a neon red outline on the character(the color or how it appears on the character doesn't matter) and the name appears as HACKER. The NPC also refer to the player as HACKER, on second thought they will notice that. The NPC will refer to the character as their name with a small H. Some of the possible "abilites" of this "God Mode".
1. Enemies hit the for 5x regular damage, 10x if crit.
2. Equipment read as negatives(a sword that gives +50 atp would be - 50 atp,etc)
3. Items put in that in the Players Shop are taken for free no matter what price(they have to be taken to GMs in exchange for FUN points)
4. Their Rooms turn into White Rooms which permanently traps their character(s) in.
These next ones are some of my favorites. :D
5. Everytime they use FUN points they are charged REAL money.
6. Everytime some tells them "Good Job" their game crashes.(these words can be set differently), Everytime multiple people(about 5) yell HACKER(atleast within two seconds of each other, in any langauge) their computer crashes.
7. Everytime they save and log off they Get DATA DRAINED. For the slick ones that keep themselves logged in there will be "Emergency Shutdowns" so they could drian themselves or let the servers do it for them.
8. If they complain to the GMs they won't know what's wrong and can do very little or nothing for them(since the outted themelves as HACKERS).

Instead of hacking the game the and ruining everyones game, they hack their own characters an ruin they own time while giving us the pleasure of watching them.

This is a terrific idea and I'm replying to this topic so that it does NOT go unnoticed. If SEGA had people like you back during their tough times then the game would have been much more stable and without so many hacks

Now, related to the whole foreigner debate. I feel that anyone who registered and doesn't live in Japan deserves to be banned because they broke the terms of service. This is pretty much common sense. When the hackers were hacking on PSO/PSU, they broke the terms of service and were banned, so this is just the same situation. You can say that it's not as bad because you aren't hacking or cheating, but you still broke the rules. The usual hackers like Crono or ZER0 DX will be tough to stop this time. I'm afraid this won't be so easy

[BIG OLAF]

I feel that anyone who registered and doesn't live in Japan deserves to be banned because they broke the terms of service. This is pretty much common sense.

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50314_288865372137_2985807_n.jpg

[CastSoldierFan96]

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50314_288865372137_2985807_n.jpg


The trolling and arguing is not going to be better for our cause...

[BIG OLAF]

The trolling and arguing is not going to be better for our cause...

"Our" cause? You just said that all the non-JP players that "snuck into" the Beta should be banned, no questions asked. I don't think you're for "our" cause.

[CastSoldierFan96]

"Our" cause? You just said that all the English players that "snuck into" the Beta should be banned, no questions asked. I don't think you're for "our" cause.

I just wanted to play the game and I am waiting for the OFFICIAL release and trying to support Sega here so that everything will go as smoothly as possible. Myself and many others were surprised that Sega would even suggest having "global servers" when there have been issues with foreign players in the past, so I'm just hoping our chances are not ruined

[Ryo]

I just wanted to play the game and I am waiting for the OFFICIAL release and trying to support Sega here so that everything will go as smoothly as possible. Myself and many others were surprised that Sega would even suggest having "global servers" when there have been issues with foreign players in the past, so I'm just hoping our chances are not ruined

This is a PSO game. If they're trying to capture the feeling of the original PSO, of course the servers will be joined.

[Rauten]

This is a PSO game. If they're trying to capture the feeling of the original PSO, of course the servers will be joined.

Yeah but this is SEGA we're talking about, you can't expect SEGA to apply things as common and basic as "logic" :wacko:

[serenade]

this topic truly blew up.

as i'm sure it's already been stated, the negative opinion towards foreign players is shared by a small portion of the jp community.

just last night, i spammed the emergency mission with a bunch of jp parties who i couldnt even understand. but we all stuck together leveling up our low level characters supporting each either. the forces would heal every so often and cast card spells, us hunters would juggle bigger or stronger enemies and deal out damage, and the rangers would do area damage and find safe attack spots. it was one of the funnest things i've ever encountered in an online game. everyone worked in unison and there was no resentment whatsoever.

i honestly dont think sega would ban us from playing PSO2. they'd be making more revenue off of our spending on AC than a few JP players who decide to "boycott" the game because they do not want us playing with them.

but then again it is sega, so we shall see.

[shiink]

this topic truly blew up.

as i'm sure it's already been stated, the negative opinion towards foreign players is shared by a small portion of the jp community.

just last night, i spammed the emergency mission with a bunch of jp parties who i couldnt even understand. but we all stuck together leveling up our low level characters supporting each either. the forces would heal every so often and cast card spells, us hunters would juggle bigger or stronger enemies and deal out damage, and the rangers would do area damage and find safe attack spots. it was one of the funnest things i've ever encountered in an online game. everyone worked in unison and there was no resentment whatsoever.

i honestly dont think sega would ban us from playing PSO2. they'd be making more revenue off of our spending on AC than a few JP players who decide to "boycott" the game because they do not want us playing with them.

but then again it is sega, so we shall see.

Couldn't agree more. I tend to play with JP parties more often than the English ones. That is the case not only on PSU but it is what I did during the alpha.
Besides, BroomOP will get what's coming to him and we will all move on enjoying the game.

[landman]

[skipping all posts after first 50]

If the game gets hacked there is only one to blame: Sega.

It's quite easy to avoid hacking: don't trust the client, and manage EVERYTHING server side. But Sega is going the lazy way with gameguard, again.

[Macman]

It's quite easy to avoid hacking: don't trust the client, and manage EVERYTHING server side.Didn't FFXIV do that? Lag with menus?

[Quatre52]

More proof of it last night, one of the best nights I've had, and I spent most of it doing runs with an awesome JP player, the guy was nothing polite, and a good player.

[Sixoul]

Isn't the reason that PSO games are truly amazing even when you are having crap internet, sure you see people jumping around and might not get the damage input until later, is because Sega makes the client trusted or something? I've never had problem lagging except dropping. But it runs so smooth. Is that because the client is trusted or is it just something Sega did right all these years? I know you should never trust the client, but if it's so we don't lag, I'm not sure which to trust.

[goldwing]

Now, related to the whole foreigner debate. I feel that anyone who registered and doesn't live in Japan deserves to be banned because they broke the terms of service.

the hell? plz explain this one to me because i don't recall ever in the terms them saying you must be a resident of jp

[Sp-24]

Some Japanese games have it in the rules: if you aren't Japanese, you are banned. It's coming from my Dynasty Warriors Online experience again: I had to stay silent for years just so nobody would suspect I'm a foreigner. It's not like everyone is always out to get you, but after searching a few Japanese forums, it seems to me that there is always at least one person searching for cheaters, people who pick on low levels and foreigners to report. Kinda disturbing, really. In their ToS it really does say about foreign policy, and mentions something about government being involved with it in some way. It may be just a Koei thing, though.

I'm fairly sure it will be easy for SEGA to add the same rule to ToS if the anti-foreigners are vocal enough, though.

[goldwing]

Some Japanese games have it in the rules: if you aren't Japanese, you are banned. It's coming from my Dynasty Warriors Online experience again: I had to stay silent for years just so nobody would suspect I'm a foreigner. It's not like everyone is always out to get you, but after searching a few Japanese forums, it seems to me that there is always at least one person searching for cheaters, people who pick on low levels and foreigners to report. Kinda disturbing, really. In their ToS it really does say about foreign policy, and mentions something about government being involved with it in some way. It may be just a Koei thing, though.

I'm fairly sure it will be easy for SEGA to add the same rule to ToS if the anti-foreigners are vocal enough, though.

gotchya. but what he said makes me wounder whos side hes on. clearly not on ours

[Vashyron]

So you guys going about the "Japan only residents" know this exists in PSU JP right?

You also know that there they also don't care? Over how many years that PSU exists I've yet to hear someone getting banned there because of the sole reason they were not a Japanese resident.

[Xenobia]

[skipping all posts after first 50]

If the game gets hacked there is only one to blame: Sega.

It's quite easy to avoid hacking: don't trust the client, and manage EVERYTHING server side. But Sega is going the lazy way with gameguard, again.
Agree... its sad.

Tera Online is doing it server side and as good as any other online game i know of. Gameguard is the stuff cheap chinese are using but not even on Perfect World it does exist and its basically the same category such as PSO2, a F2P.


I have never had any isssue playing on JP servers. The first time i did it was on FF11 10 year ago (actually PSO was even sooner but that server was shared)... and it was never any issue, despite my bad english, i still was inside a JP guild and they helped me to play my story line. They always been nice to me. I do not support defaming of JP people or foreigners equally... thats stuff i want to be gone. I dont care certain policys, they do not fit inside my mental shape. Those who always live in fear and worry about punishment, they will get theyr punishment. Remember, we can not fight bad karma with bad karma, it will never turn out good in the long run. When bad stuff still happens, then i simply will stand up, and will reattach my broken bones... they are healable. The person responsible for my broken bones will only get even more suspicion (a bad condition, not funny) and i would feel pity, although thats just purely hypothetical because i do not believe into it.

[NoiseHERO]

Some Japanese games have it in the rules: if you aren't Japanese, you are banned. It's coming from my Dynasty Warriors Online experience again: I had to stay silent for years just so nobody would suspect I'm a foreigner. It's not like everyone is always out to get you, but after searching a few Japanese forums, it seems to me that there is always at least one person searching for cheaters, people who pick on low levels and foreigners to report. Kinda disturbing, really. In their ToS it really does say about foreign policy, and mentions something about government being involved with it in some way. It may be just a Koei thing, though.

I'm fairly sure it will be easy for SEGA to add the same rule to ToS if the anti-foreigners are vocal enough, though.

I played DWO in Japanese and spoke outloud all the time. If anything everyone in that game just ignored the hell out of me, but yeah... AT LEAST I HAD FRIENDS! D<

[shiink]

the hell? plz explain this one to me because i don't recall ever in the terms them saying you must be a resident of jp

Um. Yes it does. http://pso2.jp/cbt/rule/ please refer to Section A, Item 6.2.


本テストへの参加資格は、本規約に同意・承諾し、弊社による抽選に当選することとともに、以下に定める事項 を全て満たした方に限らせていただきます。参加資格がない方は本テストに参加できませんので、ご注意下さい 。

2.日本国内に居住されている方

[Xenobia]

@Rock
Keep it up with full confidence, just be yourself and indeed... you see... it didnt create any bad stuff to you and those who ignored you is not the kind of people you playing with because its actually good that it happen, so you get the finest stuff all for yourself served on a silver table.

@Shink
Unfortunately i was unable to read it and i am still unable to read. But who is reading it anyway, when i read all the stuff on the terms of conditions paper from my credit card, i would have grown old already... its to much to be fitted into a limited human brain (half of the stuff i dont even understand, its insider language for bankers). Unfortunately my brain is limited when i do not enjoy... thats kind of a limitation, so i am not sane. Sure they are allowed to punish me... i can set rules and punish others too, but its not creating a happy world. I think most important is common sense and a good deal of compassion, when that is sufficiently executed, there is a very limited need of harsh rules, if so, only under extreme circumstances which doesnt include playing on "foreign" servers.

Means, ban a cheater and stop pointing at a absolutly innocent majority of a certain faction of people. That majority is not responsible and all they did was seeking for participation, which is not a rude action at all.

[Kion]

I'm really just amazed that people can get up in arms over the ToS. Do they walk around looking for people with jail broken iPhones? It's flat out racism and the ToS is just an excuse. If they didn't have any problems with foreigners to begin with they wouldn't be so vocal about the rule.

[Sixoul]

Jailbreaking an iphone was considered legal by the US courts. If you're a US citizen then you don't have to worry. Not sure about other countries. Anyways they are right. The rules are the rules. Technically you have to read the ToS and if you don't you're possibly allowing a company to do whatever they want with your information. People need to learn the rules are the rules. If you don't follow them then you can't complain when they are brought down on you. I'm from the US and personally I don't care whether they ban us because we are breaking the rules.

[Xenobia]

The ToS is not the matter, its the saddened heart. They are not usualy racist but they are trying to find someone in order to let out all the frustration they got. In Japanese culture fame means a lot and its not usual to confront close family members with frustrations. So what they finally do is trying to find some easy bait in order to let it out. I do however not believe into true racism, because the majority is very pleasant and is welcoming us, they do not feel any xenophobic presence. Its not a issue based on a culture, its totaly individual.

@Sixoul
[SPOILER-BOX]The point is that it doesnt actually matter what kind of rule is being brought up by them. They are usualy stronger than a single individual and can pretty much do whatever they want with them. The rules are not exactly set, they can be set up absolutly dynamically. Its growing in a way that complicated that the usual consumers is unable to even barely keeping up with it, have to accept that they are specialized into undercuting our rights. So you may feel that you do deserve a ban... thats what you are spelling out on your post (so, its imbued with a high respect to the companys rights and actions). But it doesnt matter because thats not up to you, you are trying to allow something which was never prohibited and you can not even fight for rights because that option is taken out as part of the rules (to have such a rule is kind of a error but it does exist). I know exactly my bounds and wont even deal with, its a waste of time. I accept that a ToS paper is here in order to take away rights, thats all i need to know. I know the stuff without even reading it, there has never been any motivating entry inside those kind of ToS. I have better stuff to do in my life than reading those kind of words. My life is wholely based on the "each other", not a one sided thing.

So, by "not caring" about theyr punishment and accepting the ToS, just keep out of game, thats the hardened and true grade of accepting it. Any stuff different than that is not honest and not to be taken seriously. [/SPOILER-BOX]

[Dabian]

I'm positive Sega knew there'd be foreign players. Hyping their Facebook with occasional badly translated posts in English was my clue. I'm sure somewhere in their internal discussions they raised the possibility of us sneaking in, and the potential problems that might arise.

But yea, haters gonna hate and other memes/wise words aside, you can't please everyone. And neither should you have to. :P

[Hayde]

Cheaters are never limited to one country, one language, or one culture--it may be prevalent in America or Europe since the population is greater than Japan; but it's false to imply that Japanese or any >individual< group of people are all righteous and non-cheaters.

I remember the first time Lavis Cannon/Heaven's Punisher was introduced in PSO1; I in fact traded with a Japanese player for it and while I presume it might have been possible that the player happened to have several of the items, I found it odd I traded for the gun and he magically pulled another one out when we were done trading.

I have no idea how this thread turned into a Japanese vs. English topic, but back to the original OP; I'll be honest...I'm kind of skeptical whether the OP is even an actual Japanese person--call me skeptical. Regardless, he hasn't posted in quite a while so I'm guess he/she stopped caring about this thread.

[Xenobia]

Oh no, i dont try to please... its not part of my job. My friends are here to be pleased. All i do is trying to open eyes of certain individuals, as part of my respect toward any people.

[NoiseHERO]

This is me with my JP server waifu, we met on the first day all you ignorant race war starting people are jealous! YEAH!

She makes me wear this rappy suit though.

[spoiler-box]http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/GenerationMichaeru/pso20120430_040127_010.jpg[/spoiler-box]

[Angelo]

Rock, you are really somethin.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

This is me with my JP server waifu, we met on the first day all you ignorant race war starting people are jealous! YEAH!

She makes me wear this rappy suit though.

[spoiler-box]http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t342/GenerationMichaeru/pso20120430_040127_010.jpg[/spoiler-box]

ANIKI DA LAUGHTER WONT STOP

LOL CHOCOLATE EYES

[SnowfoxZero]

Placing an IP ban to stop hacking won't do anything other than stop legitimate players from accessing the game.

Anyone who has enough knowledge to mod the game can get around a regional based IP ban in a matter of seconds.

Sega most likely knows this already.

Furthermore I wouldn't call using cheat engine hacking. The same exploit used on blue burst in 2005 works on the current version of Game Guard. Literally anyone on a 64 bit operating system could do the things in those videos. The problem is that Sega relies too heavily on others to protect their game.

Broomop is a joke anyways. Always has been. I was in the lobby the other day laughing at him getting showed up by names I didn't recognize. He was trying so hard too. Sad really. He must have spent over an hour trying to do what they were doing.

[BahnKnakyu]

[skipping all posts after first 50]

If the game gets hacked there is only one to blame: Sega.

It's quite easy to avoid hacking: don't trust the client, and manage EVERYTHING server side. But Sega is going the lazy way with gameguard, again.

FFXIV (and its meager population and 4.0 rating) would like to have a word with you.

[Reser]

Just like the throw in my opinion.

We can all sit here and cry its only 2-4 people hacking e.t.c e.t.c

But show me the videos and screenshots of Japanese players hacking.

None? didn't think so.

Fact of the matter is it IS people from our side of the pond doing the hacking and as "unfair" as it may seem blocking our side of the pond entirely would fix their problem and give them a happier community.

Also you can go on and on about being only 2-4 people but I'm sorry people over here are such tag alongs and all want "free stuffs" and to get ahead without working for it. The second people see someone hacking 50% of them are asking how to do it and if they can have free stuff and money.

Once the hacking starts the hacking community will just spread and spread through "our" community and there will be more and more of the "English" "foregin" community doing it.

Fact of the matter is they CAN and WILL block US if those people who hack continue hacking. I have been in Japanese games where we have played happily for years only to be IP blocked suddenly because the Japanese community did not want us there anymore. And there was not even hacking going on there the Japanese community had just expressed they did not want us there anymore and the people running the game decided to act on it.

All I can say is people really need to just completley ignore the 2-4 people hacking, do not encourage them and DO NOT join them or accept anything from them. Cut them off from us.

I saw these hackers and they had a small gathering of people who were clinging to them this is exactly what we DO NOT want to be seen doing.

[Spellbinder]

Just like the throw in my opinion.

We can all sit here and cry its only 2-4 people hacking e.t.c e.t.c

But show me the videos and screenshots of Japanese players hacking.

None? didn't think so.

I stopped here. The Japanese aren't that boastful or that foolish, just like in previous installments of the Phantasy Star series.

[Reser]

I stopped here. The Japanese aren't that boastful or that foolish, just like in previous installments of the Phantasy Star series.

Just stating the fact is the stuff out there is of people from this side hacking, we can try and hide from that fact all we like and say it is only 2-4 people, but that does not change the fact at all.

If there were videos from both sides hacking then we could sit here and claim hacking goes on everywhere and its not just our side, but right now all they have is videos of Broomop and his gang of script kiddies.

Fact is this game and beta are the Japanese version and if it is seen as the English community are doing the hacking then there is no reason for them to further allow us on that server.

It is one thing stating we are not part of that, but people need to show that because whenever I have seen hackers in PSU or PSO people flock to them like they are the next messiah and beg them for stuff, when people do that it just makes it look like we as a community support what they are doing.

Here is some screenshots of several of the other hackers btw :

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/2173/pso20120426193530007.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/1601/pso20120426193439006.jpg

May seem minor but only the start.

[Cyrusnagisa]

Just stating the fact is the stuff out there is of people from this side hacking, we can try and hide from that fact all we like and say it is only 2-4 people, but that does not change the fact at all.

If there were videos from both sides hacking then we could sit here and claim hacking goes on everywhere and its not just our side, but right now all they have is videos of Broomop and his gang of script kiddies.

Fact is this game and beta are the Japanese version and if it is seen as the English community are doing the hacking then there is no reason for them to further allow us on that server.

It is one thing stating we are not part of that, but people need to show that because whenever I have seen hackers in PSU or PSO people flock to them like they are the next messiah and beg them for stuff, when people do that it just makes it look like we as a community support what they are doing.

wow really?..... no video so it does not happen?, that is a pretty silly way of thinking. I have seen plenty of JP people hack, all the way back to PSO on Dreamcast, they just do not boast about it like others might do.

I entered the closed beta for PSO2, because I love the game series and love what it is about. To tell me that "I should be banned" or that I hack because I am from the US, honestly pisses me off. When I finished playing PSO2, I took the survey like everyone else (with help on translation of course) and did my part in the end like everyone else.

[Reser]

wow really?..... no video so it does not happen?, that is a pretty silly way of thinking. I have seen plenty of JP people hack, all the way back to PSO on Dreamcast, they just do not boast about it like others might do.

I entered the closed beta for PSO2, because I love the game series and love what it is about. To tell me that "I should be banned" or that I hack because I am from the US, honestly pisses me off. When I finished playing PSO2, I took the survey like everyone else (with help on translation of course) and did my part in the end like everyone else.

Once again I state the "STUFF OUT THERE" as in the videos and pictures out there now prooving hacking is going on, ALL point towards us. I am NOT saying the Japanese do not hack I am saying that everything out there at the minute only points towards our side. which is BAD for us.

The more of this out there the more contempt people will feel towards us being on the server.

ALSO like in one of the videos it also shows that people cling to them, some guy comes along and starts going "you got a meseta hack yet?" That sort of shit is exactly why the "its only 2-4 people" argument does not and NEVER will stand.

[Spellbinder]

I am NOT saying the Japanese do not hack


But show me the videos and screenshots of Japanese players hacking.

None? didn't think so.

You're not saying it but you imply it very strongly.

[Hayde]

Once again I state the "STUFF OUT THERE" as in the videos and pictures out there now prooving hacking is going on, all point towards us. I am NOT saying the Japanese do not hack I am saying that everything out there at the minute only points towards our side. which is BAD for us.

The more of this out there the more contempt people will towards us on the server.

You're preaching to the choir at this point, and that's the biggest problem. I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to get across here; this account may be new but I have been lurking the site and forums since PSO on the DC days. The majority of players on this forum are pretty anti-cheating/hacking/duping so you're not going to find many, if any of the culprits on the forums.

If I walked up to a random stranger in game and told them "No cheating man, or you're going to get us IP-banned." do you think he's going to stop and listen? Probably not, especially since this game is F2P and he/she is not going to lose any monetary value over it--at least not in beta. I'll tell you what they're LIKELY to do--they're going to laugh at me, and tell me to "F" off as they continue with their merry hacking ways.

When I played the beta this past week, I was either soloing with NPC's, playing with friends in passworded games, or I tried hosting public games under the stipulation that I did not understand much Japanese, and that I was primarily an English speaker in the comments. I had my fair share of random English-speaking players that seemingly made it on my server (Ship 3) and I had a few JP players here and there who didn't mind the language barrier.

My point is, you keep spewing this stuff and you're presenting little to no solution here. Your idea's are fairly obvious at this point--avoid cheaters, stay away from them to not make us look bad--that's fairly simple stuff that's been going since the DC days. However, those who *want* to cheat or have any desire to will in fact cling to Broomop or any number of other cheaters out there, and no amount of sermons from me or anyone else is going to like change that--especially since we're anonymous people over the internet.

It's simple; I don't plan to cheat--ever, and I plan to support Sega through the cash shop to the best of my abilities. If I get banned because I'm speaking in a different language, living in another country despite all this--that's their loss on business. I'm already going out of my way to avoid people who "make us look bad" and if that's not enough for them, then that's just too bad.

[Coldbrand]

The OP's assumption is racist.

[Reser]

You're preaching to the choir at this point, and that's the biggest problem. I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to get across here; this account may be new but I have been lurking the site and forums since PSO on the DC days. The majority of players on this forum are pretty anti-cheating/hacking/duping so you're not going to find many, if any of the culprits on the forums.

If I walked up to a random stranger in game and told them "No cheating man, or you're going to get us IP-banned." do you think he's going to stop and listen? Probably not, especially since this game is F2P and he/she is not going to lose any monetary value over it--at least not in beta. I'll tell you what they're LIKELY to do--they're going to laugh at me, and tell me to "F" off as they continue with their merry hacking ways.

When I played the beta this past week, I was either soloing with NPC's, playing with friends in passworded games, or I tried hosting public games under the stipulation that I did not understand much Japanese, and that I was primarily an English speaker in the comments. I had my fair share of random English-speaking players that seemingly made it on my server (Ship 3) and I had a few JP players here and there who didn't mind the language barrier.

My point is, you keep spewing this stuff and you're presenting little to no solution here. Your idea's are fairly obvious at this point--avoid cheaters, stay away from them to not make us look bad--that's fairly simple stuff that's been going since the DC days. However, those who *want* to cheat or have any desire to will in fact cling to Broomop or any number of other cheaters out there, and no amount of sermons from me or anyone else is going to like change that--especially since we're anonymous people over the internet.

It's simple; I don't plan to cheat--ever, and I plan to support Sega through the cash shop to the best of my abilities. If I get banned because I'm speaking in a different language, living in another country despite all this--that's their loss on business. I'm already going out of my way to avoid people who "make us look bad" and if that's not enough for them, then that's just too bad.

My original point was purely the fact , for pages people kept going on about how it is only 2-4 people and it should not be blamed on our whole community e.t.c e.t.c.

I was simply expressing my point that it does not matter how many people there are hacking, the fact remains that all evidence out there points to the English community which is a huge blotch on us and a large amount of the people playing do not make it any better by pandering to the hackers.

We can sit and claim its only 2-4 people all we like but it wont make any difference.

If they continue doing what they are doing we are very likley to get ip banned.

Also you can claim the people who cling to hackers are not the sort of people who are on these forums, but I am pretty sure a lot of them at least lurk these forums, this is afterall one of the main resources at the moment for guides e.t.c on getting into the Japanese betas.

[Hayde]

My original point was purely the fact , for pages people kept going on about how it is only 2-4 people and it should not be blamed on our whole community e.t.c e.t.c.

I was simply expressing my point that it does not matter how many people there are hacking, the fact remains that all evidence out there points to the English community which is a huge blotch on us and a large amount of the people playing do not make it any better by pandering to the hackers.

We can sit and claim its only 2-4 people all we like but it wont make any difference.

If they continue doing what they are doing we are very likley to get ip banned.

Also you can claim the people who cling to hackers are not the sort of people who are on these forums, but I am pretty sure a lot of them at least lurk these forums, this is afterall one of the main resources at the moment for guides e.t.c on getting into the Japanese betas.

You're aware that the PSO2 "English" patch originated from a PSO Cheat Site, right? I don't think you're giving these guys enough credit; they may be cheaters...but some of them probably know more Japanese than the average joe here--at least me, that's for damn certain. (Though I suppose it's possible they merely "found" English text within the game and extracted them)

[Cyrusnagisa]

heh I went to that site because I was told the English patch files where there ;p only reason I went though.

[NoiseHERO]

"HACKERS SUCK, BUT I'M USING THEIR ENGLISH PATCH ANYWAY!"

Am I the only one here not using that english patch?