PSO2 Closed Beta Survey

[Eclipse5632]

The survey can be found here: https://ssl.pso2.jp/cbt/enquete/

Please fill it out so Sega can get as much feedback on the game as possible and so your voice can be heard. The deadline is 4:00 PM on May 7th, Japan time, so try to fill it out earlier rather than later. Here are all the questions in English. Let me know if you find any errors or if you think I used too loose of a translation:

Q1: What control scheme did you use most often?
Dropdown Box
a. Keyboard/Mouse
b. Gamepad/Keyboard (some controls were assigned to keyboard)
c. Gamepad/Keyboard (keyboard was only used for chat)

Q2: Please tell us the brand and model of your gamepad.
Dropdown Box
a. I did not use a gamepad
b. Sanwa Supply
c. Logicool
d. Buffalo
e. Elecom
f. Xbox 360 controller
g. Other

Text box: model

Q3: What kind of Internet connection did you use for the test?
Dropdown Box 1
a. ADSL
b. Fiber/FTTH
c. CATV
d. Other

Dropdown Box 2
a. Wired
b. Wireless

Q4: Which of the following titles have you played before?
Checkboxes (starting at the top, left to right)
a. Phantasy Star Portable
b. Phantasy Star Portable 2
c. Phantasy Star Portable 2 Infinity
d. Phantasy Star Online
e. Phantasy Star Universe
f. Phantasy Star Zero
g. I have not played any of them

Q5: Did you participate in the PSO2 alpha test or alpha 2 test?
Radio Buttons
a. I participated in both tests
b. I only participated in the alpha test
c. I only participated in the alpha 2 test
d. I did not participate

Q6: Rate the following elements of the game from 1 (bad) to 5 (good)
a. Game installation to startup (including the launcher)
b. Title sequence (title to login)
c. Character creation
d. User interface
e. Controls
f. Quests
g. Enemy behavior
h. Game balance
i. Character, field, and enemy graphics
j. Animations
k. Effects
l. Communication
m. My Room
n. My Shop
o. BGM
p. Tutorial
q. Story progression
r. Interrupt events like rankings and urgent quests
s. FUN
t. Mags
u. Client Orders
v. Appraisal (Tekker) system
w. Friend Partners
x. Overall

Q7: After playing the closed beta test, what part of the game do you most wish would be improved?
Dropdown Box
a. Improve character actions
b. Increase number of weapons
c. Increase number of weapon categories
d. Increase the number of ways to fight (PAs, skills, etc.)
e. Make the graphics better
f. More options in character creation
g. More enemies
h. More map variations
i. Improved chat functionality
j. Include another growth axis separate from your character (like a pet)
k. More My Room options
l. Improved story/worldview
m. Add more elements that allow many people to play together
n. More options outside of battle
o. PvP

Q8: Where did you hear about the Closed Beta Test?
Checkboxes (starting at the top, left to right)
a. PSO2 official site
b. PSO2 official Twitter
c. Phantasy Star Series Official Blog
d. Official mail magazine
e. 4Gamer satellite site
f. Articles on a gaming website
g. Advertisements on a gaming website
h. Advertisements on a non-gaming website
i. Message boards or blogs
j. Magazine articles or advertisements
k. PSO2 character contest site
l. By watching the second media briefing
m. From a netcafe
n. You received an invitation email from a friend
o. A friend told you (excluding the invitation campaign)
p. Other

Textbox: Only use if you checked "Other"

Q9: Which of the following services do you have an account with?
Checkboxes
a. Facebook
b. mixi
c. Twitter
d. Mobage
e. GREE
f. Ameba Pigg
g. Youtube
h. Nico Nico Douga
i. Yahoo! JAPAN ID
j. Livedoor ID
k. Google account (excluding a work account)
l. Other
m. None

Text box: Only use if you checked "Other"

Q10: Which of the following online game/portal sites do you use?
Checkboxes
a. Capcom Online Games
b. game中CHU(GameOn)
c. mgame
d. MK-STYLE
e. NEXON
f. play nc
g. Gamania
h. Gungho Games
i. Gamepot
j. Hangame
k. Other
l. None

Text box: Only use if you checked "Other"

Q11: Which of the following online games do you normally play? (Japanese names listed in parentheses when applicable)
a. Final Fantasy XII
b. Final Fantasy XIV
c. Monster Hunter Frontier Online
d. Dynasty Warriors Online (Shin Sangoku Musou Online)
e. Phantasy Star Universe
f. TERA
g. C9[Continent of the Ninth]
h. Dragon Nest
i. Glory Destiny Online (Harezora Monogatari)
j. Aion: The Tower of Eternity (Tower of AION)
k. Tartaros Online
l. Fantasy Earth: Zero
m. Maple Story
n. Talesweaver
o. Dungeon Fighter Online (Arad Senki)
p. Mabinogi
q. Vindictus (Mabinogi Heroes)
r. Ragnarok Online
s. Lineage II
t. Perfect World
u. Wizardry Online
v. Nobunaga's Ambition Online
w. Shin Megami Tensei Imagine
x. Chocotto Land Online
y. Sudden Attack
z. Paperman
1. Toy Wars
2. Elsword
3. Alliance of Valiant Arms
4. Other
5. None

Textbox: Only use if you checked "Other"

Q12: What gaming platforms do you own?
Checkboxes
a. PlayStation 3
b. PlayStation Portable
c. PlayStation Vita
d. Wii
e. Nintendo DS
f. Nintendo 3DS
g. Xbox 360
h. Mobile phone (excluding smartphones)
i. Smartphone (iPhone)
j. Smartphone (Android)
k. Smartphone (Windows)
l. Desktop PC
m. Laptop PC
n. Tablet PC (iPad)
o. Tablet PC (Android)
p. Tablet PC (Windows)
q. Other
r. None

Text box: Only use if you checked "Other"

Q13: Will you play Phantasy Star Online 2 when it comes out?
Dropdown Box
a. I will play without buying premium items
b. I will play and buy premium items
c. I don't know if I'll buy premium items, but I'll play
d. I won't play
e. I don't know

Q14: When Phantasy Star Online 2 comes out, what combination of platforms will you play it on?
Dropdown Box
a. PC only
b. Vita only
c. iPhone only
d. Android only
e. PC and Vita
f. PC and iPhone
g. PC and Android
h. Vita and iPhone
i. Vita and Android
j. PC, Vita, and iPhone
k. PC, Vita, and Android
l. Not sure
m. I don't want to play it on any of those platforms

Q15: Were you able to play during the test period?
Dropdown Box
a. I was able to start the game and I played with other people.
b. I was able to start the game but I only played alone.
c. I downloaded the client, but I was unable to start the game.
d. I could not download the client.

Q16: Send a brief comment to the development team. (max 1000 characters)
Either leave this blank, or if you have something short you want to say post it here and I'll try to translate it. If you want, you can also use this pre-written statement in Japanese:
Quote:
PSO2をとても楽しみにしています。世界中にファンタシースターのファンがいるので、正式版にグロー バルサーバーがあるといいです。制作頑張って下さい！
Roughly translated it's "I'm really looking forward to PSO2. There are Phantasy Star fans all over the world, so I hope there are global servers in the full release. Keep up the good work!"


When you're done, click the left button, then on the next screen click the left button again.

[Cyrusnagisa]

I got to the last part and wanted to make sure I did this right, how does this sound?

トランスレータを使用して、悪い文法のために申し訳ありません。

私は英語のアメリカ人だと私は本当に、ここですべきではないことを知っています。私は非常にファンタシース ターを愛し、唯一このゲームのための最高のを見たい。私は、テストの残りの部分はうまくいくとゲームが国際 的なリリースを参照してくださいことを願っていません。私は本当にPSO2を楽しみにしています。そこに世 界中のファンタシースターのファンがいるので、私は完全なリリースでは、グローバルのサーバーがあると思い ます。良い仕事を続けてください！

is it to broken? or is it ok?

[goldwing]

ty i just got done with this and without ur help i would b clueless XD

[buri-chan]

As usual, I just used google to translate obscenely simple sentences. I'm sure they're still messed up, but when a first-grader could probably write them, well...

[FerrPSO]

Thanks for the head up. I have done it.
I chosed more map variations, in what you want to improve the most.

[Zorafim]

Thank you for posting this, and providing translations. I just filled this out. I wish I could have written something in the comments section myself, but the phrase you had worked pretty great anyway.

[eharima]

is it okay to leave suggestion in the bottom box, or use the other form?
if the other form, ala translator please ^?^
edit; the drop down menu that is ><

http://imgur.com/yRXwn

img bbcode is broken banned or my privileges removed?
http://imgur.com/yRXwn

[eharima]

http://imgur.com/yRXwn

[bradsta6508]

Thanks OP!

[NoiseHERO]

Oh man they brought up Fantasy Earth Zero!

[Gunslinger-08]

Suvery done and submitted! Thanks for the link!

[Yamishi]

I remember someone provided me with a translation for "Please bring PSO2 to Windows Phone 7" the last time there was a survey like this, but I can't seem to find it. Anyone want to do a quick translate for me? :)

Edit: Disregard, found it.



I don't think that windows phones have a enough of a user base (yet) to warrant attention. And I think there's literally only one phone windows made by toshiba in the pipeline for release in Japan lined up right now, so their probably not thinking about it. If you want tho, here's the translation.
"ウィンドウズの携帯のためにもファンタジースターオンライン2のアプリを開発してください。"

I'd have to see what kind of programming language their using to program. It's pretty easy to use an engine like unity or program in javascript and use the same code to port to multiple devices. I haven't looked at what languages windows mobile supports. If they are using javascript though, they might have a website you can access and log into and provide the same functionality on a browser (which could also be say accessed from a windows phone).

[Eclipse5632]

I got to the last part and wanted to make sure I did this right, how does this sound?

トランスレータを使用して、悪い文法のために申し訳ありません。

私は英語のアメリカ人だと私は本当に、ここですべきではないことを知っています。私は非常にファンタシース ターを愛し、唯一このゲームのための最高のを見たい。私は、テストの残りの部分はうまくいくとゲームが国際 的なリリースを参照してくださいことを願っていません。私は本当にPSO2を楽しみにしています。そこに世 界中のファンタシースターのファンがいるので、私は完全なリリースでは、グローバルのサーバーがあると思い ます。良い仕事を続けてください！

is it to broken? or is it ok?
To be honest, it's kind of broken. If you post what you want to say in English I can revise it for you if you'd like.

[Reia]

Well I sent them mine and apologysed for the bad japanese and where I live (If I don't get banned for this, then stop whining SEGA don't like foreigners). Sugested more face variations to the character creation, Basic Outfit color choice when playing free (like the one from Character Creation), And that the amount of SPs per level is low, 1-5 Client orders that can grant you extra SPs that can be challenging to complete should do. Also mentioned about some AI flaws on some boss fights when fighting as Ranger and gave it a score of 4/5 amongst my Criteria of all the MMOs I played.

[Rauten]

Survey done and sent, thanks a lot for the guide.

[Fujiko]

Great guide, thank you! Filled out my survey.

[MelancholyWitch]

I'd like some help during this survey/feedback period if those who are interested would please mention how needed PvP is! WE should make this the new game to play... the game people drop subscriptions for I"m sure Sega knows this too. Please mention about PvP in question 7 I'm sure they will know if the community reaches out to them there.

Also I could use help with translation for the additional comments section if anyone is willing to help.

[Chaosie]

Thanks for posting the survey and translations! I am glad to have an opportunity to leave some communicable feedback about the game :3

[Eclipse5632]

Eh...I don't agree with you about PvP, but as a translator it's not my job to pick and choose. If you want to send a message about it write up what you want in English and I'll translate it for you.

[serenade]

thanks for the translation.

filled out the survey. here's hoping for global servers.... or at least an english language option.

[Xenobia]

:D They do "rate" Buffalo stuff above Xbox 360 pad. Not to surprised, Japanese do love Buffalo and all kind of weird "non west stuff".

Thats all i found about the Buffalo (http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAPAN-NEW-SNES-PC-USB-Game-Pad-Gamepad-Controller-JAPAN-BUFFALO-434-/300689647126?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item46027fe616), seriously?! Its way to amusing what kind of stuff they gonna use. A redesigned SNES gamepad? I did almost spit my tea...
Ah thank you, i love weird culture, so i have to lol all the time. Hmm not sure it that one, that cant seriously be used for PSO2, but Google cant give me the answer.

Sanwa Supply (http://www.techpowerup.com/159041/Sanwa-Supply-Combines-Mini-Keyboard-with-Gamepad-and-Tracking-Device.html) is more real according to my judgement and absolutly typical for japanese. However, i would not be able to perform the same way such as i do using a Xbox Pad. Sanwa Supply is simply designed to be a small combined piece of input hardware which can easely be played absolutly everywhere (gadget style, JP seems to love it). Although, a wireless Xbox Pad and a wireless KB with decreased size would perform much better (faster pad controls, easyer to type) and just marginally become a hinderance in "space management".

Elecom is a good "wired" solution which will become cheaper in overall, however, cables can be messy to deal with on theyr own way. I like to be wireless for input devices, its kinda easyer to handle it in the long run, and when a good accu (http://www.amazon.com/Sanyo-Capacity-Pre-Charged-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B0058GZWXQ) is inside, recharge actions will stay at a green level and not become disturbing. Not to mention, i once had a wired KB attached to my Box and then i kinda did hit the cable with my feet and whoom... the entire box dropped down the floor...luckily it didnt get damaged but i was truly shocked! Since that day my love for wireless been increased...
Usualy cables are not in the line of my path with the exception of Input hardware... (its just hard to cover it).

Anyway, from the scientific point of view, Xbox360 pad is the winner in overall, i feel no doubt about. But using the stuff described in my sig, can be a little pricy. Good stuff is rarely cheap.

[Dokudoku]

Here's what I sent them. I tried to make it sound the best as I could with google translate.


申し訳ありませんが、私の貧しい日本私は翻訳を使用していました。

私はもっと積極的な敵を求めています。時には彼らはあまりにも守備のように見える。

私は、発生したときに銃からレーザー/光子を見ることができるようにしたい。それがPSO（ファンタシースターオンライン）でそのようなものだっ た。

ダメージの数値は異なって他人から色付けする必要があります。今、彼らはすべてのほとんどが灰 色である。

___________
In English:


I want more aggressive enemies. Sometimes they seem too defensive.

I want to be able to see lasers/photons from guns when fired. It was like that in PSO (Phantasy Star Online).

Damage numbers should be colored differently from others. Now they are all mostly gray.

[Clessy]

I hope you all choose to have more weapon types.

[NoiseHERO]

They have fists, daggers, double saber, wand, twin machine gun in the works...

But I want my slicer too... (hopefully PSZ style)

Can't decide what improvement to vote on. D:

[Xenobia]

Regarding the demand of increased rate and speed of bamboo stick swings, im almost certain that there will be much more evil levels and take into account that it is run on a easy mode.

[Demon-]

I filled out and sent in a survey. Thanks for the translations!

[Jinketsu]

Done and done. I took your generic message Eclipse, but also sent them my own message in english explaining I was an english speaker, and hoped to see the game release in various different languages like english, french, german, etc.

[Dabian]

Given how Sakai handled Alpha 1/2 feedback, it's a good bet he actually takes player input very seriously. :)

[Zyrusticae]

I voted for improved graphics.

Because nothing short of Tera-level graphics is going to impress me.

(I still hope a bunch of folks voted for improved character creation, tho...)

[Enforcer MKV]

They have fists, daggers, double saber, wand, twin machine gun in the works...

But I want my slicer too... (hopefully PSZ style)

Can't decide what improvement to vote on. D:

Wait, fists!? As, in KNUCKLES!? Oh, PLEASE tell me they're gonna have PSU style knuckles again. Just....don't lie to me in the process. D:

[NoiseHERO]

Wait, fists!? As, in KNUCKLES!? Oh, PLEASE tell me they're gonna have PSU style knuckles again. Just....don't lie to me in the process. D:

Well that's what was found in the game's data...

I'm mostly hoping they're not giant GLOVES, and that they have grapple and more kick moves.

I would die soooo happy, then again, only gunslash so far doesn't have a grab move.

[Enforcer MKV]

Well that's what was found in the game's data...

I'm mostly hoping they're not giant GLOVES, and that they have grapple and more kick moves.

I would die soooo happy, then again, only gunslash so far doesn't have a grab move.

YES! Oh, I'm so happy now!

[foreignreign]

Thanks for translating it.

[Eclipse5632]

I'd like to be able to convey these points, if I could:

"There are a few unreasonable AC functions.
I would rather pay more to permanently open a character slot rather than pay less each time I wanted to remake it.
MAG reset devices should not cost AC if we have to pay for multiple MAGS.
There should be a non-AC way to change costume color after creation, if clothes obtained from future FUN scratches won't be accepted in the recycle shop.
I hope the full premium set won't cost more than previous monthly subscriptions.
There should be a vote on how much people would be willing to pay for certain things before the prices are decided.
In character creation, non-CASTs should have multiple, full color sliders on their costumes like CASTs do."
Here you go:

ＡＣのアイテムはちょっとやり過ぎだと思います。少量のＡＣを払ってキャラクターを一度作成できるより、よ り大量のＡＣを払ってそのキャラクタースロットは永遠にアンロックされるような形式がいいと思います。キャ ラクターを再作成したかったらまた払わなければならないのはちょっと。。。
複数のマグが買えるならマグリセットデバイスはＡＣでないはずです。
ＦＵＮスクラッチに当たるコスチュームは交換ショップが受けないなら、ＡＣ以外にキャラ作成後コスチューム の色を変える方法があるべきです。
プレミアムセットはＰＳＯ，ＰＳＵなどの月額課金より高くないといいです。
ＡＣアイテムの価格を決める前、ユーザーに「このアイテムを手に入れるにはどのぐらいお金を払いますか」の ようなアンケートを出すべきです。
キャラ作成の時、キャスト以外のキャラもコスチュームの色を自由にセットできるべきです。

[Eggobandit]

I voted for improved graphics.

Because nothing short of Tera-level graphics is going to impress me.

(I still hope a bunch of folks voted for improved character creation, tho...)


lol...?

[Kimil Adrayne]

I should have run my Google translated comment through here first. I took the broken Japanese translation it spat out and ran it back through the machine. The English message came out like this:

``I'm not Japanese, I'm from Canada. This message, Google have been translated.
PSO2 you can work, we had a very good time, outside of Japan. Time and money, you will have to spend advertising PSO2. Global server, you will need to create!
Thank you very much.``

Ran it through a couple more times, and it just got worse each time. Oh man.

[Eggobandit]

I'd like to post this if i can:

"
Overall the game is a vast improvement over other titles, but it can still be made better. I would love to see alot of work put into good balance between classes and abilities. Many ranger abilities are very overpowered. I would also like to see more unique animations between different race/gender combos, like Hucaseal and Ramarl from PSO EpI&II.
"
全体的なゲームは他のタイトル上に広大な改善ですが、それはまだ良い行うことができます。私は、クラスと能 力をバランスよく入れ作業の多くを見てみたい。多くのレンジャーの能力は非常に圧倒されています。私もPS O EPI＆IIからHucasealとRamarlのような別の人種/ジェンダーコンボの間に多くのユニークなアニメーションを、見てみたい。
"

Ran it through google translate and it came out alright, but ran it through babelfish and it made me lol at myself. Can anyone actually translate it?

[goldwing]

I should have run my Google translated comment through here first. I took the broken Japanese translation it spat out and ran it back through the machine. The English message came out like this:

``I'm not Japanese, I'm from Canada. This message, Google have been translated.
PSO2 you can work, we had a very good time, outside of Japan. Time and money, you will have to spend advertising PSO2. Global server, you will need to create!
Thank you very much.``

Ran it through a couple more times, and it just got worse each time. Oh man.

Im sorry but i had to lol at that. Sorry

[Zarode]

Thanks for translating this for me. I decided to actually post in English on the last question, though I did add that last bit on the end just in case, that you made up.

Ballsy? Most likely. But I really want this game to come out here. I've got a group of friends I wanna play with...

[RocSage]

Wait, fists!? As, in KNUCKLES!? Oh, PLEASE tell me they're gonna have PSU style knuckles again. Just....don't lie to me in the process. D:

You can fists already. They just don't have weapons right now. Fighting with fists is really interesting as the block isn't "block" it is a stationary dodge. I used it a little bit, but without weapons its really too hard to do anything with them.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

You can fists already. They just don't have weapons right now. Fighting with fists is really interesting as the block isn't "block" it is a stationary dodge. I used it a little bit, but without weapons its really too hard to do anything with them.

oh wow. nice catch. apparently unarmed also has it's own dash attack for hunters.

this sorta makes me believe they'll be using this attack pattern for the actual weapons when they come out.


which makes me a little sad, i was hoping knuckled would hit faster than this.

lol the invincibility frames on the shift dodge are huge. it's a nice concept and i like how you can come back with a just attack. still disappointed about the attack speed though.

lol you can also unarmed shift dodge out of those surprise bind traps. the red circle things that explode. oh man this is getting good

[jmanx]

Guise this is our chance to get Trading to be removed off of premium

[Enforcer MKV]

You can fists already. They just don't have weapons right now. Fighting with fists is really interesting as the block isn't "block" it is a stationary dodge. I used it a little bit, but without weapons its really too hard to do anything with them.

unarmed is meh to me. It's alright, but I'm super happy that it looks like one of my favorite melee weapon classes is returning. BRING ON THE HUGE KNUCKLES! WOOOOOOOO!

[soulpimpwizzurd]

unarmed is meh to me. It's alright, but I'm super happy that it looks like one of my favorite melee weapon classes is returning. BRING ON THE HUGE KNUCKLES! WOOOOOOOO!

man i was actually with rock in hoping they wouldn't make them soc'em boppers.

i think brass knuckle type knuckle weapons would look cooler than those big boxing glove things.

[Spellbinder]

I'd like to post this if i can:

"
Overall the game is a vast improvement over other titles, but it can still be made better. I would love to see alot of work put into good balance between classes and abilities. Many ranger abilities are very overpowered. I would also like to see more unique animations between different race/gender combos, like Hucaseal and Ramarl from PSO EpI&II.
"
全体的なゲームは他のタイトル上に広大な改善ですが、それはまだ良い行うことができます。私は、クラスと能 力をバランスよく入れ作業の多くを見てみたい。多くのレンジャーの能力は非常に圧倒されています。私もPS O EPI＆IIからHucasealとRamarlのような別の人種/ジェンダーコンボの間に多くのユニークなアニメーションを、見てみたい。
"

Ran it through google translate and it came out alright, but ran it through babelfish and it made me lol at myself. Can anyone actually translate it?

以前のファンタシースターオンラインゲームと比べると、総合的に改良したと思いますが、さらに良くなると思 います。まず、クラスのバランスを良く考えて欲しいです。例えば、レンジャーのスキルは強すぎだと思います 。それに、ファンタシースターオンラインエピソードI＆IIにあるレイマルやヒューキャシールのように独特 な戦い方があればと思います。

Took a little break from work. :P Maybe not perfect but it should do.

[Enforcer MKV]

man i was actually with rock in hoping they wouldn't make them soc'em boppers.

i think brass knuckle type knuckle weapons would look cooler than those big boxing glove things.

Nope, I want to really wallop them, the only way to do that is to smack them with a huge brick of a fist!

Bring on the Gudda Gant, Gudda Skela, and Gudda Igga! *War whoop*

[Rath-Kun]

Thanks for translating and posting, will take it now.

[Arika]

-Upgrade graphic
-Weapon category

It is really hard between this 2 choices as I think they need both.

Melee need to add at least 2-3 more weapons category.
-Dual Daggers? (or Dual saber) = as a rapid combo, Dps orient category.
-Double Saber? (well it is PS-series favorite weapon. Star-War fan too lol )
-Slicer? (well it is one unique weapon category in the PS)

Ranger need at least 2 weapon category
-Twin handgun (for dual wield purpose)
-Shotgun (please don't compare with assault rifle PA, assault rifle is supposed to be a gun that can work on any situation, but not good at any. As you can see that assault rifle has launcher PA too, and yet they also release launcher type weapon.)

FO probably just need one more type
-Text book? Scroll? have it auto regen PP ability and higher TP, but very suck at attack or unable to attack.



And lastly, for PC game, graphic in PSO2 is kidda behind other game company right now. they need to improve it at least for PC users.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Nope, I want to really wallop them, the only way to do that is to smack them with a huge brick of a fist!

Bring on the Gudda Gant, Gudda Skela, and Gudda Igga! *War whoop*

quick question

evangelion design mechas (even though we all know they're not actual mechas they're giant humans blabla) vs gundam design mechas

which do you prefer

[Sev]

Thanks for creating this topic, it was nice to be able to provide my feedback. I went with the default comment that you posted which pretty much sums up what I want anyway.

[jmanx]

-Upgrade graphic
-Weapon category


We really don't need graphics upgrade they are fine the way they are I have had people come up to me at school and looked with interest and they would always say how pretty the game looks and shiza.

We need more updates on my finer things.

[Zyrusticae]

Certainly, it's true we don't need better graphics. The current graphics are serviceable enough - not bad, but not great, either.

Still, it's not great. Even if all they do is apply some shader upgrades (ambient occlusion, better material shaders, perhaps local reflections and such), that would probably be enough. No need to overhaul this late in the game.

[Eclipse5632]

以前のファンタシースターオンラインゲームと比べると、総合的に改良したと思いますが、さらに良くなると思 います。まず、クラスのバランスを良く考えて欲しいです。例えば、レンジャーのスキルは強すぎだと思います 。それに、ファンタシースターオンラインエピソードI＆IIにあるレイマルやヒューキャシールのように独特 な戦い方があればと思います。

Took a little break from work. :P Maybe not perfect but it should do.
I think that's pretty good. The only suggestion I would make would be to change 戦い方 to アニメーション or モーション or something since the former could be interpreted to mean, like, class features or something more technical, as opposed to an aesthetic change which is what I think he was going for.

[Spellbinder]

I think that's pretty good. The only suggestion I would make would be to change 戦い方 to アニメーション or モーション or something since the former could be interpreted to mean, like, class features or something more technical, as opposed to an aesthetic change which is what I think he was going for.

lol. I actually puzzled over if I should say アニメーション or not and that was the exact same thing I said to myself. I just felt like I needed to break the long stream of katakana words. XD

[Finalzone]

Request to translate this part:
"Closed Beta Testing was a marvelous experience allowing to check the good and flaw of the game. For the improvement, gameguard is a security liability and a better protection should be considered. Perhaps using ssh for data transfer will help but consult the community for suggestion. PSO2 being F2P, please consider bringing to non-Windows platform like Linux distribution with its growing adoption for potential customers/gamers. Bring back the ability to customize different parts of clothing similar to Phantasy Star Universe series. Consider more exploration outside battlefield like cities. Let the community help you to make one the best online game experience. Arigato gozaimasu"

[kyuuketsuki]

Translation request:

"Thank you very much for your hard work on the development of PSO2. Please include the Windows Phone platform for the smartphone app version of PSO2. Also, please increase map variation and enemy difficulty and aggressiveness. Additional polish of the graphical elements, including additional options for players with high performance PCs would be greatly appreciated. Finally, please address the significant imbalance with regards to Ranger's high level of damage output and survivability relative to the other classes."

[ShadowDragon28]

Translation Request:

" Please put in a black with grey metal trim color varient for the Humar costume"
" Please add in the ability for Mags to evovle into wings like Rati, Agastya, Devil Wing, and Angel wing"

[Eggobandit]

Certainly, it's true we don't need better graphics. The current graphics are serviceable enough - not bad, but not great, either.

Still, it's not great. Even if all they do is apply some shader upgrades (ambient occlusion, better material shaders, perhaps local reflections and such), that would probably be enough. No need to overhaul this late in the game.


The graphics look fine. They're accessible, a bit liberal with the textures and stuff, but the art direction makes up for its technical shortcomings.


To upgrade the models to compete with the other MMOs that prize themselves with great graphics would completely defeat the point of the graphics being the way they are in the first place. I cant play TERA Online on my laptop.



For what they're worth, they are indeed great, in the same way PSO's graphics were great. Except it was a bit different, because back during PSO's lifetime on the dreamcast it was the TERA Online of graphics...

[Arika]

For what they're worth, they are indeed great, in the same way PSO's graphics were great. Except it was a bit different, because back during PSO's lifetime on the dreamcast it was the TERA Online of graphics...

Yes, in PSO era when they first released on DC, I also remember that PSO was the top class graphic.

Just gonna say that now PSO2 isn't released yet, but there are plenty of other MMO with better graphic than PSO2 already. PSO2 has very good design, which is why any better graphic would enchant it even more. I think due to the fact that it is also plan for I-OS, they are holding it back a little.

It is just too late tho, at this point already it would be hard to upgrade it other than just some polishing.

[ShadowDragon28]

Please help me out with translating this correctly into Japanese?

Translation Request:

" Please put in a black with grey metal part and grey metal shoulder armor as a color variant for the Humar costume."

" Please add in the ability for Mags to evovle into floating wings like Rati, Agastya, Devil Wing, and Angel wing."

[kyuuketsuki]

I know that anyone doing translations is doing so on their free time, so please understand I'm not being insistent or demanding. I'd simply like to know: is anyone is currently offering their services for translating feedback to be submitted with the questionnaire? If so, terrific. If not, that's okay too. It'd just be good to know which is the case so I can submit my questionnaire before the deadline.

[Zyrusticae]

It is just too late tho, at this point already it would be hard to upgrade it other than just some polishing.
I don't think it's too late - why would they even put the option there if it was, yeah?

[Eclipse5632]

Working on translations that people have requested right now. Sorry for the delay.

[Eggobandit]

I don't think it's too late - why would they even put the option there if it was, yeah?


Im just saying it's pointless to persue more upgrades. What else can they really do, honestly? From here on the only upgrades we can get are more polygons, textures and more lighting effects.


At the end of the day, the game still has to run on multiple platforms, and the easiest way to achieve that goal is to build the engine to not consume too many resources. TERA Online, even at its lowest settings, will consume farrr more resources than Phantasy Star Online 2 will. For what it's worth, PSO2 does a very good job of maintaning performance with an option for a much better graphical experience.


I personally think PSO2 is one of the least graphically impressive Sonic Team / Sega titles released when you take a look at Unleashed/Generations, but i dont think the game is ever going to get to that level of graphics. The lighting effects on those games consume alot of resources and the effect counts are pretty high too.

[Masa-san]

Two words: Dance Party.

[kyuuketsuki]

Working on translations that people have requested right now. Sorry for the delay.
No worries! We just appreciate that you're doing it at all. ^^

[Syphio]

Thanks for the translation!

[Kazzi]

I asked for an international release, more weapon categories, photon chairs and for the costume color slider to be free for humans and newmans.

Maybe they'll listen, I don't know. Worth a shot anyway.

[Eclipse5632]

Request to translate this part:
"Closed Beta Testing was a marvelous experience allowing to check the good and flaw of the game. For the improvement, gameguard is a security liability and a better protection should be considered. Perhaps using ssh for data transfer will help but consult the community for suggestion. PSO2 being F2P, please consider bringing to non-Windows platform like Linux distribution with its growing adoption for potential customers/gamers. Bring back the ability to customize different parts of clothing similar to Phantasy Star Universe series. Consider more exploration outside battlefield like cities. Let the community help you to make one the best online game experience. Arigato gozaimasu"
クローズドβテストはゲームのいい点と悪い点を確かめられて、素晴らしい経験でした。改善について少々考え があります。GameGuardはセキュリティが低いです。もっとしっかりなシステムを利用して欲しいです 。例えば、SSHは役に立つでしょう。プレイヤーに相談するといいです。PSO2は基本プレイ無料なら、L inuxにもリリースしたらどうですか？もっとプレイヤーが引けます。そして、PSUのようなコスチューム の組み合わせにして欲しいです。フィールドだけじゃなく、ロビーやシティを探索したいです。コミュニティを 手伝わせて、最高のオンラインゲームを作りましょう。ありがとうございます。


Translation request:

"Thank you very much for your hard work on the development of PSO2. Please include the Windows Phone platform for the smartphone app version of PSO2. Also, please increase map variation and enemy difficulty and aggressiveness. Additional polish of the graphical elements, including additional options for players with high performance PCs would be greatly appreciated. Finally, please address the significant imbalance with regards to Ranger's high level of damage output and survivability relative to the other classes."
PSO2の制作頑張ってくださって本当にありがとうございます。スマートフォン版にWindows Phoneも入れて欲しいです。そして、マップのバリエーションを増やして、敵の難易度を上げてください。 ハイパーフォーマンスのPCが持っているプレイヤー向けのオプションを含めて、グラフィックの改善もして欲 しいです。最後に、レンジャーは他のクラスと比べて、強すぎて死にがたいです。調整して欲しい です。

[Rath-Kun]

http://bumped.org/psublog/pso2-closed-beta-test-completed/

"You will have to wait a little bit longer until the open beta starts."

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! I know its because they are fixing things but g'dermit.

[Ghalion]

This thread was really useful! Thanks a bunch! >=)

[Dinosaur]

Eclipse5632, you're doing wonderful things for this community. Good work!

[kyuuketsuki]

PSO2の制作頑張ってくださって本当にありがとうございます。スマートフォン版にWindows Phoneも入れて欲しいです。そして、マップのバリエーションを増やして、敵の難易度を上げてください。 ハイパーフォーマンスのPCが持っているプレイヤー向けのオプションを含めて、グラフィックの改善もして欲 しいです。最後に、レンジャーは他のクラスと比べて、強すぎて死にがたいです。調整して欲しい です。
You are awesome. Many thanks.

[PSO Addict]

Good work Eclipse. Thanks for all that you're doing for us.

[Zyrusticae]

Im just saying it's pointless to persue more upgrades. What else can they really do, honestly? From here on the only upgrades we can get are more polygons, textures and more lighting effects.
I already pointed out several shader-based upgrades that can be completely optional and notably improve the visuals...

For an actual, concrete example - look at Aion 2.5's graphics upgrade. Purely shader-based, all they did was change material shaders, changed around the lighting model (now with real-time dynamic shadows!), added some depth of field and god rays and some ambient occlusion on the side... and that alone was enough to completely change the game's visuals, even without any model or texture upgrades. And all of that is completely optional. You can even change back to the old engine if you prefer it...

Frankly, PSO2's art is already pretty excellent. Some shader upgrades can still do the game some good, however...

At the end of the day, the game still has to run on multiple platforms, and the easiest way to achieve that goal is to build the engine to not consume too many resources. TERA Online, even at its lowest settings, will consume farrr more resources than Phantasy Star Online 2 will. For what it's worth, PSO2 does a very good job of maintaning performance with an option for a much better graphical experience. Perhaps. Have you actually tried running Tera? Unreal Engine 3 is a surprisingly robust piece of tech - even mobile phones can run that engine at decent frame rates! Also, it's a bit of apples to oranges - Tera needs to render more characters in a greater physical area, so of course it's going to be a bit more demanding at the lowest settings.

Plus, any shader upgrades can already be made completely optional, so I see no reason to not pursue those. Those technical artists have to be doing something, y'know!



I personally think PSO2 is one of the least graphically impressive Sonic Team / Sega titles released when you take a look at Unleashed/Generations, but i dont think the game is ever going to get to that level of graphics. The lighting effects on those games consume alot of resources and the effect counts are pretty high too.
Well, no, the lighting effects don't actually consume that many resources, just like Tera's awesome lighting effects don't actually consume that many resources. Why? Two reasons: deferred lighting, and pre-rendered (baked) lighting.

The former runs all the lighting processes in a single deferred pass, dramatically reducing the workload on the GPU, even when there are hundreds or thousands or even millions of lights on-screen at once. The game is probably already using this. The latter "bakes" the lighting into the level itself through offline rendering, which allows for things like ambient occlusion and indirect lighting without the massive overhead required to do this per-frame (hence why Sonic Unleashed is even playable on the aging hardware of the PS3 or 360 - doing that kind of lighting in real-time is literally impossible).

From what I gather, baked lighting is a non-starter due to PSO2's dynamic levels - because each slice of the level is made out of random building blocks, it's simply impossible to "bake" the lighting into the level itself without dramatically increasing load times (since every machine would have to render the lighting on the spot).

Even so, the lighting can see some improvements. It's noticeably flat in the forest level, which is seriously unflattering to the character models. It's a lot better in the city and the volcano levels, so perhaps they just need to work on that particular area...

[Eggobandit]

Are you telling me Lighting Effects dont consume horsepower? Or are you trying to tell me that the Hedgehog Engine's pre-baked GI doesn't take much horsepower?


Well...It doesn't take as much, but that doesn't mean it isn't still taxing.


Anyway most of the graphics from TERA and PSO2 come from their shader effects. Both have them, but Tera just has much higher resolution stuff going on. Some other effects can be improved i guess, but TERA aims for a higher bar than PSO2 does. Pixel Shaders will decimate performace. They're used on characters and some effects, but you dont really see any used on environmental surfaces.

Which would help some areas like the caves immensely.


PSO2 also cuts corners on environment geometry alot.

[Finalzone]

クローズドβテストはゲームのいい点と悪い点を確かめられて、素晴らしい経験でした。改善について少々考え があります。GameGuardはセキュリティが低いです。もっとしっかりなシステムを利用して欲しいです 。例えば、SSHは役に立つでしょう。プレイヤーに相談するといいです。PSO2は基本プレイ無料なら、L inuxにもリリースしたらどうですか？もっとプレイヤーが引けます。そして、PSUのようなコスチューム の組み合わせにして欲しいです。フィールドだけじゃなく、ロビーやシティを探索したいです。コミュニティを 手伝わせて、最高のオンラインゲームを作りましょう。ありがとうございます。


Thank you Eclipse for the translation.

[Drekko]

Are you telling me Lighting Effects dont consume horsepower? Or are you trying to tell me that the Hedgehog Engine's pre-baked GI doesn't take much horsepower?


Well...It doesn't take as much, but that doesn't mean it isn't still taxing.


Anyway most of the graphics from TERA and PSO2 come from their shader effects. Both have them, but Tera just has much higher resolution stuff going on. Some other effects can be improved i guess, but TERA aims for a higher bar than PSO2 does. Pixel Shaders will decimate performace. They're used on characters and some effects, but you dont really see any used on environmental surfaces.

Which would help some areas like the caves immensely.


PSO2 also cuts corners on environment geometry alot.


Yeah, I don't think they're going to improve the graphics, no matter what arguments you guys might push through, it wont happen.

For one reason and one reason only. Developement cost.... That's actually two words....

Folks you all forget this is a F2P game. With limited resources to make this game, they can not be over stretching that. Also considering they have to still add content to keep players interested in the game.

Using Tera as an example is bad, because that game has how much content compared to PSO2??? and how long of a developement cycle and resources does it have????

Right now Sega is in finacial troubles, they really can't afford to be doing anything that would increase costs for any project.

Improving graphics does cost money, no matter what you might think.

So I'll put out a question.... Which would you perfer if you only had a choice to choose one thing.... Would you like better graphics? or Would you like more content?

That's all there is to it.

[Drekko]

Oops, I quoted the wrong person. Was suppose to be aimed at Zyrusticae.

[Eclipse5632]

Translation Request:

" Please put in a black with grey metal trim color varient for the Humar costume"
" Please add in the ability for Mags to evovle into wings like Rati, Agastya, Devil Wing, and Angel wing"
ヒューマーのコスチュームの黒がメインで、グレイがハイライトのバリエーションを入れて欲しい 。
ラティやアガスティア、悪魔のハネなどのような羽根型マグも入れて欲しい。

[Drifting Fable]

Translation request:
"Please consider using meseta as the currency for the Ethe salon instead of AC."

Thanks, and keep up the good work. You're doing a great thing for the community.

[Zyrusticae]

Yeah, I don't think they're going to improve the graphics, no matter what arguments you guys might push through, it wont happen.

For one reason and one reason only. Developement cost.... That's actually two words....
[snip]
Again, this is nonsense.

They already have the artists on payroll. They already have people working on the graphics this very second. Technical artists are valuable personnel; I would be highly surprised (and disappointed) if they worked on a temporary or contract basis. And remember something - content and upgrades are not an either-or thing. Different team members work on different aspects of the game, and it is very common for artists to be at a lack for work while waiting for concept artists and designers to churn out new areas, monsters, weapons, and so on.

I won't be surprised at all if the game sees quite a few upgrades between now and OB, and even more between OB and launch - just like how we saw upgrades between Alpha 2 and CB.

[Eclipse5632]

Translation request:
"Please consider using meseta as the currency for the Ethe salon instead of AC."
エステのサービスを利用する際、ＡＣよりメセタで払うべきです。

Thanks for the support, guys. ^^
I think I should be caught up now. Let me know if I missed anyone.

[Drekko]

Again, this is nonsense.

They already have the artists on payroll. They already have people working on the graphics this very second. Technical artists are valuable personnel; I would be highly surprised (and disappointed) if they worked on a temporary or contract basis. And remember something - content and upgrades are not an either-or thing. Different team members work on different aspects of the game, and it is very common for artists to be at a lack for work while waiting for concept artists and designers to churn out new areas, monsters, weapons, and so on.

I won't be surprised at all if the game sees quite a few upgrades between now and OB, and even more between OB and launch - just like how we saw upgrades between Alpha 2 and CB.

Payroll means didly squat, if you have forgotten, most artist in Japan are contract based not payroll based. Also if they are payrolled they do not just work for one project and one project alone, so your argument about them having people to work on graphics is wrong.

Sega atm is in finacial straights, any artist that is still employed pernamently are few and will not just be working on PSO2. Sega has other projects beside PSO, they will send any coders, Artists, Animators, etc. to work on other projects, that if you were to look at sega game list, pretty much any game that going to be retailed is going to have priority over PSO2. On top of that, PSO2 is not just being made for the PC it's being made for the Iphone/Android and Vita. Meaning not much from the engine can be changed between the different iterations, this is to maintain a standard quality accross the board.

So all those artists, and coders that your thinking about, they're not there. I don't know where you get your info about how games are produced or the internal workings of a company and financial priorities. But you need to brush up badly on todays market and on how each company is structured now specially the Japanese companies.

Sorry, that you may be dissapointed, but that is fact. When F2P games are being made, what you see in CBT tends to be what your going to get, the final just tends to get just a couple of extra features or content that they might think would make the cash shop turn more of a profit.

[kyuuketsuki]

When F2P games are being made, what you see in CBT tends to be what your going to get, the final just tends to get just a couple of extra features or content that they might think would make the cash shop turn more of a profit.
That's nonsense. SEGA is probably banking on making more profit with PSO2 as an F2P game than they would have made with it being P2P. Why would the F2P model then somehow dictate that they cut costs so aggressively that they wouldn't even consider keeping some technical artists on to polish the graphics after the beta?

Also, do you have a source for SEGA's artists not being on the payroll? While it's certainly common for various things to be contracted out during the course of a game's development, my knowledge of video game development is that there are typically permanent artists on the payroll of the studios since any project is going to require artists. Further, just because SEGA has other projects going doesn't mean they're at a point where they'd have any need for the artists working on PSO2, or that they'd have priority over PSO2 for some reason.

[Drekko]

That's nonsense. SEGA is probably banking on making more profit with PSO2 as an F2P game than they would have made with it being P2P. Why would the F2P model then somehow dictate that they cut costs so aggressively that they wouldn't even consider keeping some technical artists on to polish the graphics after the beta?

Also, do you have a source for SEGA's artists not being on the payroll? While it's certainly common for various things to be contracted out during the course of a game's development, my knowledge of video game development is that there are typically permanent artists on the payroll of the studios since any project is going to require artists. Further, just because SEGA has other projects going doesn't mean they're at a point where they'd have any need for the artists working on PSO2, or that they'd have priority over PSO2 for some reason.

Dude, this is common knowledge about artists in Japan, you can go on any Game developer website, and there's tons. Hell here's a website full of just people who work in the industry, NamesinGames.com, go ahead and ask anyone there. They'll tell you same thing I'm telling you.

The difference between the Japanese industry and the American idustry is far and wide. What you think is common, might be in the US, but not in Japan.

About the F2P, sorry to disappoint you, they're not banking on making more money from the project. They're expecting small profit margin, you have to understand no matter how much we like PSO, it's not a mainstream title. They went from F2P with the original PSO, to P2P for PSOv2, and continued with P2P till PSUP. Let's look at how well it did in recent years, badly, atrocious. Remember competition is going to keep away many players from it. Couple that with reviews from reviewers.... Famitsu, and other japanese mags have not been kind to recent games, especially MMO's.

To keep it cost effective to ensure profits, they will not be keeping any tech artists or any contract artists to work on the game and they will not spend any extra resources to improve the game from what has already been used. They might Contract someone maybe 2-3 years from when it's release to do a graphic update, but it will be very minor, unless there's a significant, I mean huge, success of this game that will mandate Sega to do more.

This is the real world, this is how things work. Companies will not spend resources that they don't need to for a game that is not a mainstream title and atm is unknown whether it will be successful. Considering the titles competition, it's going to be hard.

I love PSO, but I just know better than to expect things that are beyond the scope of what "Sega the software company" can do within budget.

[Spellbinder]

Dude, this is common knowledge about artists in Japan, you can go on any Game developer website, and there's tons. Hell here's a website full of just people who work in the industry, NamesinGames.com, go ahead and ask anyone there. They'll tell you same thing I'm telling you.

The difference between the Japanese industry and the American idustry is far and wide. What you think is common, might be in the US, but not in Japan.

About the F2P, sorry to disappoint you, they're not banking on making more money from the project. They're expecting small profit margin, you have to understand no matter how much we like PSO, it's not a mainstream title. They went from F2P with the original PSO, to P2P for PSOv2, and continued with P2P till PSUP. Let's look at how well it did in recent years, badly, atrocious. Remember competition is going to keep away many players from it. Couple that with reviews from reviewers.... Famitsu, and other japanese mags have not been kind to recent games, especially MMO's.

To keep it cost effective to ensure profits, they will not be keeping any tech artists or any contract artists to work on the game and they will not spend any extra resources to improve the game from what has already been used. They might Contract someone maybe 2-3 years from when it's release to do a graphic update, but it will be very minor, unless there's a significant, I mean huge, success of this game that will mandate Sega to do more.

This is the real world, this is how things work. Companies will not spend resources that they don't need to for a game that is not a mainstream title and atm is unknown whether it will be successful. Considering the titles competition, it's going to be hard.

I love PSO, but I just know better than to expect things that are beyond the scope of what "Sega the software company" can do within budget.

For what it's worth, if you go to the sega website they're hiring designers and artists.

[Ryo]

I don't work for Sega, but here's what they're doing!

None of us work for SEGA... we don't know how much money they expect to make, how many designers they have on staff, how many hot dogs they consume every second Wednesday or anything else.

[RocSage]

Again, this is nonsense.

They already have the artists on payroll. They already have people working on the graphics this very second. Technical artists are valuable personnel; I would be highly surprised (and disappointed) if they worked on a temporary or contract basis. And remember something - content and upgrades are not an either-or thing. Different team members work on different aspects of the game, and it is very common for artists to be at a lack for work while waiting for concept artists and designers to churn out new areas, monsters, weapons, and so on.

I won't be surprised at all if the game sees quite a few upgrades between now and OB, and even more between OB and launch - just like how we saw upgrades between Alpha 2 and CB.

Actually... there are a few aspects to this and it matters what you mean by "graphics" as to who would need to work on what.

Personally the game looks fine technically and the style is the PSO style so I think either decision is asinine and denotes a lack of understanding of art, design, and creativity as far as critical commentary goes and it indicates the same old nonsense of the modern age which is that games need to be super-realistically rendered to be good or something.

[Peejay]

Actually... there are a few aspects to this and it matters what you mean by "graphics" as to who would need to work on what.

Personally the game looks fine technically and the style is the PSO style so I think either decision is asinine and denotes a lack of understanding of art, design, and creativity as far as critical commentary goes and it indicates the same old nonsense of the modern age which is that games need to be super-realistically rendered to be good or something.

The environment could use some serious sharpening still.

[Zyrusticae]

None of us work for SEGA... we don't know how much money they expect to make, how many designers they have on staff, how many hot dogs they consume every second Wednesday or anything else.
Pretty much this, but it can be assumed (italicized for terrible trap word) that they have artists on payroll since the game is still in developmental stages and they do need them for the inevitable content upgrades that are coming down the pipe.

And because this:
For what it's worth, if you go to the sega website they're hiring designers and artists.



Actually... there are a few aspects to this and it matters what you mean by "graphics" as to who would need to work on what.

Personally the game looks fine technically and the style is the PSO style so I think either decision is asinine and denotes a lack of understanding of art, design, and creativity as far as critical commentary goes and it indicates the same old nonsense of the modern age which is that games need to be super-realistically rendered to be good or something.
Well, I think it is a problem when choosing to go with a 3-dimensional style (of any kind) that you inevitably have to tackle a lot of problems that can dramatically affect the verisimilitude of the game. Dramatically stylized games obviously have fewer issues, but looking at PSO2's environments and a good chunk of their character art (look at all the "western"-style characters!) tells me they're not going for that route.

As human beings, we are very good at telling when something is "off" or "wrong" with any 3D rendering (even if we can't quite vocalize what that thing actually is). PSO2, in its current state, is absolutely chock-full of these. Character lighting is frequently flat (exacerbated by a lack of subsurface scattering, IMO), as is environment lighting, and though they try to pull some basic tricks to alleviate these, they only end up doing so in rather specific circumstances. The volcano environment, in particular, really strikes me as being "off" due to a lack of specular reflections, normal mapping, and just good ol' lighting - look at photos of actual volcanic caves (https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=949&q=volcanic+rock&gbv=2&oq=volcanic+rock&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_l=img.3..0l10.396.2045.0.2162.14.9.0.4.4.0.108. 640.8j1.9.0...0.0.0_ZuzsKiFys#hl=en&safe=off&gbv=2&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=volcano+cave&oq=volcano+cave&aq=f&aqi=g1g-sS1g-S1g-mS2&aql=&gs_l=img.3..0j0i10i24j0i24j0i5i24l2.380489.380871. 0.381332.3.3.0.0.0.0.66.193.3.3.0...0.0._VS4Z-WZGzs&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=d5d2413ce2a3e87e&biw=1680&bih=949), and you can easily see where it's going wrong (and I'll note that actual volcanic caves don't often have magma visibly flowing within them, meaning the devs actually have better potential light sources but they don't use them!).

This isn't really even a question of realism - it just looks boring. It's an extremely boring environment to walk through! And why should that ever be the case? Surely the artists aren't happy with such a piss-poor rendition of what is ordinarily a striking and photo-worthy environment in the real-world? And it's not like the game's tech is incapable of supporting such detail - hell, the entire shader suite is completely optional! They can pretty much pile on layers and layers of optional shader-based upgrades without backlash, as there's nothing stopping them from doing so.

Mind you, I won't be crushed if they don't really upgrade the graphics further. They're serviceable as it is, but the environments are just boring so far. They could do so much more! And that makes me sad, because I like everything else about this game. Yes, I have other (http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6108/terascreenshot201204071.jpg) games (http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/130/screenshot9518.jpg) I can use for screenshot whoring, but what's wrong with one more?

[kyuuketsuki]

Personally the game looks fine technically and the style is the PSO style so I think either decision is asinine and denotes a lack of understanding of art, design, and creativity as far as critical commentary goes and it indicates the same old nonsense of the modern age which is that games need to be super-realistically rendered to be good or something.
... No. It has nothing to do with "super-realism", nor does it have anything at all to do with art, design, or "creativity". No one is critiquing the artistic direction or anything like that. This is purely about the quality of the rendering.

I don't think anyone is saying the game looks bad (at least, I certainly am not). But, the graphics could still use some touching up. Namely, textures could stand to be sharper/higher-resolution, trees could stand to not look like a game from the early 2000s, and Zyrusticae did a pretty good job going over the lighting issues in the previous post.
The environment could use some serious sharpening still.
This. The environment just looks... fuzzy, at times. Especially in the forest. Probably related to the lighting issues.

[RocSage]

Well, I think it is a problem when choosing to go with a 3-dimensional style (of any kind) that you inevitably have to tackle a lot of problems that can dramatically affect the verisimilitude of the game. Dramatically stylized games obviously have fewer issues, but looking at PSO2's environments and a good chunk of their character art (look at all the "western"-style characters!) tells me they're not going for that route.

As human beings, we are very good at telling when something is "off" or "wrong" with any 3D rendering (even if we can't quite vocalize what that thing actually is). PSO2, in its current state, is absolutely chock-full of these. Character lighting is frequently flat (exacerbated by a lack of subsurface scattering, IMO), as is environment lighting, and though they try to pull some basic tricks to alleviate these, they only end up doing so in rather specific circumstances. The volcano environment, in particular, really strikes me as being "off" due to a lack of specular reflections, normal mapping, and just good ol' lighting - look at photos of actual volcanic caves (https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=949&q=volcanic+rock&gbv=2&oq=volcanic+rock&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_l=img.3..0l10.396.2045.0.2162.14.9.0.4.4.0.108. 640.8j1.9.0...0.0.0_ZuzsKiFys#hl=en&safe=off&gbv=2&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=volcano+cave&oq=volcano+cave&aq=f&aqi=g1g-sS1g-S1g-mS2&aql=&gs_l=img.3..0j0i10i24j0i24j0i5i24l2.380489.380871. 0.381332.3.3.0.0.0.0.66.193.3.3.0...0.0._VS4Z-WZGzs&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=d5d2413ce2a3e87e&biw=1680&bih=949), and you can easily see where it's going wrong (and I'll note that actual volcanic caves don't often have magma visibly flowing within them, meaning the devs actually have better potential light sources but they don't use them!).

This isn't really even a question of realism - it just looks boring. It's an extremely boring environment to walk through! And why should that ever be the case? Surely the artists aren't happy with such a piss-poor rendition of what is ordinarily a striking and photo-worthy environment in the real-world? And it's not like the game's tech is incapable of supporting such detail - hell, the entire shader suite is completely optional! They can pretty much pile on layers and layers of optional shader-based upgrades without backlash, as there's nothing stopping them from doing so.

Mind you, I won't be crushed if they don't really upgrade the graphics further. They're serviceable as it is, but the environments are just boring so far. They could do so much more! And that makes me sad, because I like everything else about this game. Yes, I have other (http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6108/terascreenshot201204071.jpg) games (http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/130/screenshot9518.jpg) I can use for screenshot whoring, but what's wrong with one more?

Think about you what you said here and what you said that i responded to. Think about what the "artists" do and what the other departments do and you should find that you are wrong to suggest an "upgrade" to graphics because there are artists around not doing anything (which they likely aren't as they are probably working on future costumes and such)

And if you can't figure it out, I'll answer for you. It's not an "art" thing. It's an engine thing, or comparability thing, or a level designer thing, but for what you are talking about it is not a "artist" that is going to handle that.

[Zyrusticae]

No, it is an "artist" that handles that. A technical artist (http://www.creativeskillset.org/games/careers/profiles/article_5287_1.asp), to be exact.

And that's just semantics anyways. What's it matter if they're called something other than an artist? The gist of my message is the same either way.

(And I'll admit assuming artists at SEGA work the same as artists in any other video/PC games company is a mistake on my part, but none of us can say with any certainty just how their workflow goes. Unless someone here is secretly an employee on the PSO2 team, which would be totally awesome but is not a thing that happens.)

[Eclipse5632]

the entire shader suite is completely optional!
Just gonna throw this out there because it's been bothering me for a while, but (correct me if I'm wrong) there isn't actually an option to "turn off" the shader in the options. The shader quality options are "standard" and "simple", not on or off.

[RocSage]

No, it is an "artist" that handles that. A technical artist (http://www.creativeskillset.org/games/careers/profiles/article_5287_1.asp), to be exact.

And that's just semantics anyways. What's it matter if they're called something other than an artist? The gist of my message is the same either way.

(And I'll admit assuming artists at SEGA work the same as artists in any other video/PC games company is a mistake on my part, but none of us can say with any certainty just how their workflow goes. Unless someone here is secretly an employee on the PSO2 team, which would be totally awesome but is not a thing that happens.)

That not what people generally call an artist. Perhaps they have tweaked it to what they think is acceptable and so are working on different areas. The game is still in development though so I wouldn't worry much about that. Those types of things are generally the last thing to be tweaked.

[Mike]

Just gonna throw this out there because it's been bothering me for a while, but (correct me if I'm wrong) there isn't actually an option to "turn off" the shader in the options. The shader quality options are "standard" and "simple", not on or off.
That's right. Somebody previously decided to call them on and off for some reason and it's just stuck around.

[Zyrusticae]

Just gonna throw this out there because it's been bothering me for a while, but (correct me if I'm wrong) there isn't actually an option to "turn off" the shader in the options. The shader quality options are "standard" and "simple", not on or off.
"Simple" is somewhat misleading in this case; in practical terms what they call "simple" is pretty close to "none at all". They still use some, probably for basic lighting, but it's effectively the same thing as hardware transform & lighting (which was introduced waaaay back with DX7).


That not what people generally call an artist. Perhaps they have tweaked it to what they think is acceptable and so are working on different areas. The game is still in development though so I wouldn't worry much about that. Those types of things are generally the last thing to be tweaked.
It's actually a fairly recent thing (though not THAT recent, since it started with the advent of the current-gen consoles), coming alongside the introduction of shader artists (http://www.linkedin.com/title/shader+artist/) who are also often texture artists since the two things go hand-in-hand.

But yeah, I pretty much refuse to give up hope for improvement until the game is released. ;-)

[Sidney]

But yeah, I pretty much refuse to give up hope for improvement until the game is released. ;-)

Heck yea! :) Just wanted to say, as someone who has only played PSO and PSU as far as online games go (aka: I know nothing about MMOs), I have found your information about the graphical aspects of the game very interesting. I really hope they implement some of your ideas for the improvements with the shaders - it's a great idea.

[Taitu]

As human beings, we are very good at telling when something is "off" or "wrong" with any 3D rendering (even if we can't quite vocalize what that thing actually is). PSO2, in its current state, is absolutely chock-full of these. Character lighting is frequently flat (exacerbated by a lack of subsurface scattering, IMO), as is environment lighting, and though they try to pull some basic tricks to alleviate these, they only end up doing so in rather specific circumstances. The volcano environment, in particular, really strikes me as being "off" due to a lack of specular reflections, normal mapping, and just good ol' lighting - look at photos of actual volcanic caves (https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=949&q=volcanic+rock&gbv=2&oq=volcanic+rock&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_l=img.3..0l10.396.2045.0.2162.14.9.0.4.4.0.108. 640.8j1.9.0...0.0.0_ZuzsKiFys#hl=en&safe=off&gbv=2&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=volcano+cave&oq=volcano+cave&aq=f&aqi=g1g-sS1g-S1g-mS2&aql=&gs_l=img.3..0j0i10i24j0i24j0i5i24l2.380489.380871. 0.381332.3.3.0.0.0.0.66.193.3.3.0...0.0._VS4Z-WZGzs&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=d5d2413ce2a3e87e&biw=1680&bih=949), and you can easily see where it's going wrong (and I'll note that actual volcanic caves don't often have magma visibly flowing within them, meaning the devs actually have better potential light sources but they don't use them!).

This isn't really even a question of realism - it just looks boring. It's an extremely boring environment to walk through! And why should that ever be the case? Surely the artists aren't happy with such a piss-poor rendition of what is ordinarily a striking and photo-worthy environment in the real-world? And it's not like the game's tech is incapable of supporting such detail - hell, the entire shader suite is completely optional! They can pretty much pile on layers and layers of optional shader-based upgrades without backlash, as there's nothing stopping them from doing so.

Mind you, I won't be crushed if they don't really upgrade the graphics further. They're serviceable as it is, but the environments are just boring so far. They could do so much more! And that makes me sad, because I like everything else about this game. Yes, I have other (http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6108/terascreenshot201204071.jpg) games (http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/130/screenshot9518.jpg) I can use for screenshot whoring, but what's wrong with one more?

I see that you seem to know quite a bit about the modelling process or at least how to spot different techniques; however, unfortunately things are not that simple. You can't simply apply normal and spec maps on to a model and throw it into the game. These need to first be supported by the game's rendering engine which is a job to be placed completely on the coding team. Seeing as the coders will already be up to their knees in balancing and an unending list of bugs effecting the gameplay experience, adding new rendering techniques seems like the last thing they should be concerned with, especially considering that your average player can't run the game on high quality as it is.

[Krisan]

The engine already supports the aforementioned mapping, and it's already used in various places. Honestly though I (personally) don't care about the graphics much. Sure it could use some polish, that's a given.. But eh.

[moorebounce]

I'm happy with the way PSO2 looks. Could the characters and enemies stand to have a few more poloygons? Sure but you won't really notice or care unless you stop to look at everything with a microscope. Gameplay is a big part of the game for me. Outside of the launchers needing to be toned down a little I love the gameplay and thats all that matters.

[Zyrusticae]

I see that you seem to know quite a bit about the modelling process or at least how to spot different techniques; however, unfortunately things are not that simple. You can't simply apply normal and spec maps on to a model and throw it into the game. These need to first be supported by the game's rendering engine which is a job to be placed completely on the coding team. Seeing as the coders will already be up to their knees in balancing and an unending list of bugs effecting the gameplay experience, adding new rendering techniques seems like the last thing they should be concerned with, especially considering that your average player can't run the game on high quality as it is.
As Krisan already mentioned, the game already has normal mapping and specular mapping. Both are most noticeable on the city map, although I'm not sure if the environment textures use any (and if they don't, well, that's a major failing on their part).

It's also worth noting that even if they don't touch that particular issue, there's still plenty of room for improving the game's look entirely with post-processing shaders (http://enbseries.enbdev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17&start=2930#p6297) (and btw, that thread is nearly 300 pages - clearly some people really like to take screenshots. ;)) Even without texture mods, higher polygon counts (really unnecessary, I don't see many jagged edges on the models as they are), and so forth, just changing the game's lighting, tone-mapping, color grading, and dynamic range, plus some ambient occlusion and indirect lighting on the side, can dramatically change the appearance of any game. Note that PSO2 already uses several post-processing shaders - adding a few on top is quite trivial.

At this point, I'm pretty sure adding new effects and textures is entirely within the realm of the art team. And if I were to venture a guess, they have at least one major graphics programmer on the team working on these kinds of things this very moment.

I know the "gameplay is king!" folks don't like the thought of resources being put into things they view as non-essential, but, well, for some of us at least, it's important enough that they are putting money into it. ;-)

[Rauten]

Characters look more than good enough for me, it's the environments that I think could use some polish.

[NoiseHERO]

^ This, I don't really mind, I'm the guy that can play freakin' sega saturn games and be all "THE GRAPHICS LOOK SO REAL!" and laugh at my own sarcasm and turn the terrible graphics into enjoyment, because it's ironic and I did it before it was cool.

But looking at some parts of the new desert map, makes me feel like I'm looking at a Gamecube game. D:

[Sidney]

But looking at some parts of the new desert map, makes me feel like I'm looking at a Gamecube game. D:

Uh-oh! Is it just what you saw in the video, or were there more photos? I want to see just how bad it is. :lol:

[PSO Addict]

Lots of photos here. You all and your spoiled graphics. Maybe is you played more Sega Saturn, you'd be excited about this game. I am quite satified with the looks.

http://www.gpara.com/article/cms_show.php?c_id=30601&c_num=37

[Scotty T]

The only thing I want changed is to remove evading when double tapping on movement keys, its annoying ><

[NoiseHERO]

Lots of photos here. You all and your spoiled graphics. Maybe is you played more Sega Saturn, you'd be excited about this game. I am quite satified with the looks.

http://www.gpara.com/article/cms_show.php?c_id=30601&c_num=37

Did you just steal my joke? D:

But yeah graphics are the least of my worries.

Just want more outfits.

[PSO Addict]

I was expanding. D:

[Sidney]

Lots of photos here. You all and your spoiled graphics. Maybe is you played more Sega Saturn, you'd be excited about this game. I am quite satified with the looks.

http://www.gpara.com/article/cms_show.php?c_id=30601&c_num=37

Eek! The desert does kind of look like it belongs on the PS2 a bit. I'm not too super picky about graphics, since - let's be real here, my most recent console happens to be a PS2, and it's what I still mainly play today, since I apparently love living in the dark ages - but it'd be nice to see things looking a bit more polished. :)

And yes to more outfits! At least there's one good thing about outfits being one-pieces: the fashion challenged cannot create hideous wardrobe monstrosities, a la PSU. But, maybe, that was part of the fun back on PSU, too. :lol:

(Oh, and thanks for the link!)

[PSO Addict]

Are you judging us nerds and our fashion sense? That's not very nice!

(And you make me want pancakes.)

[Sidney]

Haha, there's tons of nerds on here with excellent fashion sense! :) I, too, was guilty of some not-so-wondrous fashion on PSU myself.

And huzzah! :) I try to spread the gospel of a pancake-filled breakfast to all I encounter, haha!

[PSO Addict]

I have lucky charms and bad fashion sence. I am one of the the few who actually wears the fomar hat, so that's exciting to me. You can judge me if you choose.

[Chik'Tikka]

people complaining about graphics on a free to play game, lolz,
and the secret to PSU fashion was all in the hairstyles+^_^+ i used to win those fashion because of fiddling with my hair+^_^+ (years ago, good times!!)
also PS2 FTW!!+^_^+

[Drekko]

For what it's worth, if you go to the sega website they're hiring designers and artists.

They're always looking for people, and if you read more, you would see that most of the job postings are contract based.

Now once again, why is it so hard for people to understand the concept of what's common in the US is not in Japan/Asia. Things we take for granted in western games is not something Japanese industry accepts as standard.

Artist that only do Shaders in that regions industry do not exist. Everyone there does multi roles. When they are streamlining a game which is common practice over there unlike here in the US(which is nice if they actually did it for more than just one system). They actually will remove things from the engine that will cause a performance hit of any sort.

Now looking at the base Japanese PC. What can be run off of that without sacrificing performance, remember unlike us, they do not just go out and do a full PC upgrade for one game. Maintaining what's there, what we saw in CBT is the best optimization of the game to run on as many PCs as possible.

How many people here were able to run the game with max graphics? or even just having shaders on?

If we were to take that poll you would see maybe half were able to run with shaders. This is why they released a PSO2 specific Benchmarking tool. Which is very detailed and tells you what settings should be set to play at the recommended FPS.

With the adjustments that are being discussed, if the engine has not been coded to only use certain shaders and lighting effects on certain surfaces/textures. Would put an increase strain on not only the CPU for all the particle effects taking place, but also on the GPU which has to deal with the high res textures and shaders.

On top of it all we also have to include the fact there is no option to turn off Vsync, Which also puts a strain on the system. Anti-Aliasing, which has no specific setting except of on and off, also adds to that strain. Top it all off with the fact they also added motion blur and atmospheric effects. Yeah.....

You guys are disregarding simple engine resource allocation. Let's compare to Tera which is highly graphically extensive and a MMO. If you notice certain effects that are present in PSO2 are not present in Tera. I bet you guys can figure out which ones I'm talking about without me saying anything.

For the intended purpose of adding those little things you mentioning, they would need to remove half of the other effects that in the game atm, just cause guys think the environment is not good enough? I must say you guys have not played many Multiplayer games, or least not payed attention to game itself in detail.

With everything that has been mentioned, putting in the man hours for coders to edit the engine for the artist to add the higher res stuff and better lighting and shaders. Your talking about a good amount of work and time.

As we all know, Time is money. With a deadline that must be met, guess what? not going to happen. Delays cost companies money, alot of money. I don't know if you guys have heard the horror stories about the higher echilons going beserk because someone mentioned a delay. Or how much hell they are put through to meet deadlines.

You guys seem to know alot about the art aspect of game making, but you don't seem to know anything about work constraints and deadlines. Hell I bet you guys don't even know that most projects, your locked on specific version of the software that you use until the project is done. Perhaps the latest version allows them to do something that the version they're using can't do, oh well, your stuck with the tools you are given.

[Drekko]

Wow, I wrote alot........

[Spellbinder]

They're always looking for people, and if you read more, you would see that most of the job postings are contract based.

Are we reading the same Japanese page?

[Chik'Tikka]

[spoiler-box]
They're always looking for people, and if you read more, you would see that most of the job postings are contract based.

Now once again, why is it so hard for people to understand the concept of what's common in the US is not in Japan/Asia. Things we take for granted in western games is not something Japanese industry accepts as standard.

Artist that only do Shaders in that regions industry do not exist. Everyone there does multi roles. When they are streamlining a game which is common practice over there unlike here in the US(which is nice if they actually did it for more than just one system). They actually will remove things from the engine that will cause a performance hit of any sort.

Now looking at the base Japanese PC. What can be run off of that without sacrificing performance, remember unlike us, they do not just go out and do a full PC upgrade for one game. Maintaining what's there, what we saw in CBT is the best optimization of the game to run on as many PCs as possible.

How many people here were able to run the game with max graphics? or even just having shaders on?

If we were to take that poll you would see maybe half were able to run with shaders. This is why they released a PSO2 specific Benchmarking tool. Which is very detailed and tells you what settings should be set to play at the recommended FPS.

With the adjustments that are being discussed, if the engine has not been coded to only use certain shaders and lighting effects on certain surfaces/textures. Would put an increase strain on not only the CPU for all the particle effects taking place, but also on the GPU which has to deal with the high res textures and shaders.

On top of it all we also have to include the fact there is no option to turn off Vsync, Which also puts a strain on the system. Anti-Aliasing, which has no specific setting except of on and off, also adds to that strain. Top it all off with the fact they also added motion blur and atmospheric effects. Yeah.....

You guys are disregarding simple engine resource allocation. Let's compare to Tera which is highly graphically extensive and a MMO. If you notice certain effects that are present in PSO2 are not present in Tera. I bet you guys can figure out which ones I'm talking about without me saying anything.

For the intended purpose of adding those little things you mentioning, they would need to remove half of the other effects that in the game atm, just cause guys think the environment is not good enough? I must say you guys have not played many Multiplayer games, or least not payed attention to game itself in detail.

With everything that has been mentioned, putting in the man hours for coders to edit the engine for the artist to add the higher res stuff and better lighting and shaders. Your talking about a good amount of work and time.

As we all know, Time is money. With a deadline that must be met, guess what? not going to happen. Delays cost companies money, alot of money. I don't know if you guys have heard the horror stories about the higher echilons going beserk because someone mentioned a delay. Or how much hell they are put through to meet deadlines.

You guys seem to know alot about the art aspect of game making, but you don't seem to know anything about work constraints and deadlines. Hell I bet you guys don't even know that most projects, your locked on specific version of the software that you use until the project is done. Perhaps the latest version allows them to do something that the version they're using can't do, oh well, your stuck with the tools you are given.[/spoiler-box]

Maintainable resource saving programming is something we're starting to see more in the US these days+^_^+ which i think is good, even if it's caused more by the bad economy then anything+^_^+ as for the benchmark tester with the character creator, it lies a lot, it'll give a score of 75 and then I'll get 264, then it lets me play CBT in 1080 with all setting maxed out and no frame rate loss. It's broken imo+^_^+

[Drekko]

Are we reading the same Japanese page?

I'm persuming we are, cause it says it in big giant kanji letters and numerical numbers on contract length.

[Drekko]

[spoiler-box][/spoiler-box]

Maintainable resource saving programming is something we're starting to see more in the US these days+^_^+ which i think is good, even if it's caused more by the bad economy then anything+^_^+ as for the benchmark tester with the character creator, it lies a lot, it'll give a score of 75 and then I'll get 264, then it lets me play CBT in 1080 with all setting maxed out and no frame rate loss. It's broken imo+^_^+

The reason for the different scores is because of what your load time for a paticular scene took. The low score probably was when you first ran it for the first time, meaning it rendered for the scene for the first time. The second score you got cause when you ran the game stuff was already render and was in the memory, so less rendering required.

To run the game at 60 FPS which is the recommended FPS, with your scores, at max setting you would not be close to that in a consistent matter.

Unless you are use to playing games with constant slow down in areas with many items on the screen going on at once, then power to you.

But me who does not like to play in slowmo...... I perfer to have consistent FPS, it makes a huge difference in the experience you get while playing especially in PSO.

Now why you didn't get frame loss on your system is beyond me, but maybe you were playing it at 30-40 FPS which to many people is acceptable.

[Spellbinder]

I'm persuming we are, cause it says it in big giant kanji letters and numerical numbers on contract length.

We're not looking at the same thing then. Could you give me a link?

[Zyrusticae]

Sorry, Drekko, but as realistic as your points may be, I simply do not care.

It's up to the company to figure out how to grok that stuff, I'm just saying I want to see things improve. I don't know what their performance target is, how much budget they have allocated to everything, who they actually have on staff, etc., etc., etc., and frankly, that is really none of my concern. I'm just a customer voicing my opinion and wishes for the future, and it's really not fair or realistic to expect me to tone them down for whatever restraints the company may have simply because I don't know what those restraints are!

For that matter, exactly where are you getting your information from? I want to know, too, y'know! You certainly seem to be well-informed, but without any sources I most certainly can't verify any of that information, and I'm not particularly inclined to take you on your word alone.

Also, as far as performance targets go... the game clearly does not come even close to maxing out the capabilities of even the current-gen consoles (360 and PS3), and those things are running on seven years old - a bog-standard desktop with an 8800GT (those are ancient by now in tech terms) can run console ports with no issue, so it boggles my mind to consider that their target could possibly be even lower than that. That's not even an issue, however, when you consider scalability - unlike the consoles, they can very easily increase the range of settings, which allows them to hit multiple performance targets while still improving the visuals at the high-end. Mind you, this is the first time Sega's built a game for the PC from the ground-up - things are obviously going to be very different here relative to previous console developments.

Frankly, I'm still surprised the game just doesn't look as good as modern console games. Yes, it's multiplayer, but that's an excuse, not a reason. I can only hope as many Japanese players are as miffed at this as I am.

[Taitu]

Sorry, Drekko, but as realistic as your points may be, I simply do not care.

It's up to the company to figure out how to grok that stuff, I'm just saying I want to see things improve. I don't know what their performance target is, how much budget they have allocated to everything, who they actually have on staff, etc., etc., etc., and frankly, that is really none of my concern. I'm just a customer voicing my opinion and wishes for the future, and it's really not fair or realistic to expect me to tone them down for whatever restraints the company may have simply because I don't know what those restraints are!

Far be it from me to say, but were you not one of the people in the PVP thread who was trying to argue that resource constraints are a reason why PVP should not be included in the game? I'm curious what makes upgrading the graphics any different. Why should the artists be focusing on improving the graphics when they could instead be creating resources for new content?

[stheno]

Wow this thread is all about graphics now. Here's a screenshot I saw on the pso2 uploader that's a good example of texture quality.

Possibly NSFW
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up2133.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Why, Sega, is underwear higher res than the rest of the character outfits? :(
I'd rather have sharp outfits and blocky underwear :/

[Zorafim]

Is that a cameltoe?

[BIG OLAF]

Is that a cameltoe?

Dear sweet Falz, what in the fuc-

Yes, it is. I would love to hear about how big of a pain in the ass it was to get the angle for that screenshot, though.

......................anyway, I noticed that sometimes the graphics resolution changes significantly based on lighting exposure. I don't know if it's due to the shaders or something, as I'm not very tech savvy, but the in-game Sun is the difference between this:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/QOkhO.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

and this:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/gfXlU.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Zyrusticae]

Wow @ that screenshot above...

I'm impressed. That's a hard angle to take, heh. It amuses me that Sega's priorities lie in that direction, but it's not surprising...


Far be it from me to say, but were you not one of the people in the PVP thread who was trying to argue that resource constraints are a reason why PVP should not be included in the game? I'm curious what makes upgrading the graphics any different. Why should the artists be focusing on improving the graphics when they could instead be creating resources for new content?
Because graphics are something that can very easily benefit all players, even players who can't necessarily run them at maximum settings because they can enjoy them through screenshots and videos, not to mention it is seriously good for promotional media when everyone asks "hey, what's that beautiful game called?".

Meanwhile, PvP only serves a small core niche of players and can very easily detract from the game in other areas.

Two completely different areas, by the way. PvP presents a huge design problem that is almost entirely unsolvable with the game built the way it is now. Graphics are largely a solved problem, it's just a matter of implementation.



......................anyway, I noticed that sometimes the graphics resolution changes significantly based on lighting exposure. I don't know if it's due to the shaders or something, as I'm not very tech savvy, but the in-game Sun is the difference between this:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/QOkhO.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

and this:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/gfXlU.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
That's part of what I was talking about in regards to the lighting. In indoor areas (ESPECIALLY volcano) it really suffers just because there aren't very many light sources, or what light sources are there aren't used very well. Flat lighting can very easily make good modeling and texture work look like, well, papier-mâché.

I'm reeaally hoping that's one of the first areas that sees some touching up...

[NoiseHERO]

Wow this thread is all about graphics now. Here's a screenshot I saw on the pso2 uploader that's a good example of texture quality.

Possibly NSFW
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up2133.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Why, Sega, is underwear higher res than the rest of the character outfits? :(
I'd rather have sharp outfits and blocky underwear :/

WTF IS GOING ON HERE!?

If this wasn't outrageously hilarious, it'd be freaking outrageous.

Seriously though, that's a camel toe!

I guess in Japan this game would still be Teen rated.

[Cypher_9]

Hmmm... I already done the survey but... if I am able to do it again - I would like these to be translated:

With controller / gamepad (Logitech) when pressing LEFT and UP on Right-joystick: character dodges / evades When pressing RIGHT and DOWN on Right-joystick:.. Character uses sub-pallet item Said functions are set for LEFT-JOYSTICK button (sub -pallet use) and RIGHT-JOYSTICK button (dodge / evade) that is fine. Want the RIGHT-JOYSTICK for camera pan like the MOUSE. Also with controller / gamepad configuration, during test, did input movement test for LEFT-JOYSTICK and RIGHT -JOYSTICK: when for the TRIGGER button, input would not go through for configuration.

and this...

With the experience as a FORCE-class and with, the disk/spell RESTA is fine but, with the time it lasts - players should be able to RUN into RESTA and still get healed with the time it is out: instead of the FORCE-class walking toward damaged players with staff and talis or throw talis-card to heal players near or in its radius. Other than that it is fine, I hope you consider this suggestion.

===========

Translations done with Babylon:

コントローラ / 左 (Logitech) を押すと、ゲームに右のジョイスティック : 文字かわします / 右、ダウン ...- ジョイスティック : 右のキーを押すときに身をかわします 文字は良いです」と述べた関数左ボタンのジョイスティック (Sub- パレットを使用 ) と右ボタンのジョイスティック ( ダッジ / 潜り ) の設定されているサブ項目のパレットを使用しています。 カメラのための右のジョイスティックのマウスのようにパンします。

での経験と力のクラスとは、ディスク / スペル Resta ていますが、罰金は、時間と、それが持続するプレーヤー - べきであるように、実行する Resta とはまだ癒えを得るには、時間があるから : の代わりには、強制的に向けて歩いて破損したクラスの選手とスタッフと talis または投げ talis カードを癒や選手や近くの半径。 それは良いこと以外の、私はこの提案を検討と期待しています。


If these are embarrassments, I hope to redeem them with your help - I appreciate your service... ^^

[Taitu]

Hmmm... I already done the survey but... if I am able to do it again - I would like these to be translated:

With controller / gamepad (Logitech) when pressing LEFT and UP on Right-joystick: character dodges / evades When pressing RIGHT and DOWN on Right-joystick:.. Character uses sub-pallet item Said functions are set for LEFT-JOYSTICK button (sub -pallet use) and RIGHT-JOYSTICK button (dodge / evade) that is fine. Want the RIGHT-JOYSTICK for camera pan like the MOUSE. Also with controller / gamepad configuration, during test, did input movement test for LEFT-JOYSTICK and RIGHT -JOYSTICK: when for the TRIGGER button, input would not go through for configuration.

and this...

With the experience as a FORCE-class and with, the disk/spell RESTA is fine but, with the time it lasts - players should be able to RUN into RESTA and still get healed with the time it is out: instead of the FORCE-class walking toward damaged players with staff and talis or throw talis-card to heal players near or in its radius. Other than that it is fine, I hope you consider this suggestion.

===========

Translations done with Babylon:

コントローラ / 左 (Logitech) を押すと、ゲームに右のジョイスティック : 文字かわします / 右、ダウン ...- ジョイスティック : 右のキーを押すときに身をかわします 文字は良いです」と述べた関数左ボタンのジョイスティック (Sub- パレットを使用 ) と右ボタンのジョイスティック ( ダッジ / 潜り ) の設定されているサブ項目のパレットを使用しています。 カメラのための右のジョイスティックのマウスのようにパンします。

での経験と力のクラスとは、ディスク / スペル Resta ていますが、罰金は、時間と、それが持続するプレーヤー - べきであるように、実行する Resta とはまだ癒えを得るには、時間があるから : の代わりには、強制的に向けて歩いて破損したクラスの選手とスタッフと talis または投げ talis カードを癒や選手や近くの半径。 それは良いこと以外の、私はこの提案を検討と期待しています。


If these are embarrassments, I hope to redeem them with your help - I appreciate your service... ^^

You're actually able to change your controller settings to use the right stick as the camera control in the game options already.

[Cypher_9]

You're actually able to change your controller settings to use the right stick as the camera control in the game options already.

If that was the case... I either didn't find it... or wasn't able to configure it... because that was the one of the things I spent my time doing...

[Taitu]

If that was the case... I either didn't find it... or wasn't able to configure it... because that was the one of the things I spent my time doing...

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194184&highlight=camera&page=2

Check post #13

[Cypher_9]

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194184&highlight=camera&page=2

Check post #13

Okay... I am familiar with that screen when I did run into it... the result was the following post I made. I guess I didn't get it to work the way that person have... for it was still the same... LOL Something to do once Open Beta comes...

Thanks for the link.

[Taitu]

Okay... I am familiar with that screen when I did run into it... the result was the following post I made. I guess I didn't get it to work the way that person have... for it was still the same... LOL Something to do once Open Beta comes...

Thanks for the link.

Yea, the first time I tried to reconfigure the controller it didn't work; however, I realized that after I set it up that I accidently cancelled the options screen out instead of saving it. I did it a second time and remembered to confirm all my options and it worked just fine.

[Cypher_9]

Yea, the first time I tried to reconfigure the controller it didn't work; however, I realized that after I set it up that I accidently cancelled the options screen out instead of saving it. I did it a second time and remembered to confirm all my options and it worked just fine.

Yeah I can definitely say for sure I did cancel it... damn... really wanted to utilize the ranger FPS a bit more... that would of helped a ton. Instead, I did it with the mouse... o3o

[Chik'Tikka]

[spoiler-box]
The reason for the different scores is because of what your load time for a paticular scene took. The low score probably was when you first ran it for the first time, meaning it rendered for the scene for the first time. The second score you got cause when you ran the game stuff was already render and was in the memory, so less rendering required.

To run the game at 60 FPS which is the recommended FPS, with your scores, at max setting you would not be close to that in a consistent matter.

Unless you are use to playing games with constant slow down in areas with many items on the screen going on at once, then power to you.

But me who does not like to play in slowmo...... I perfer to have consistent FPS, it makes a huge difference in the experience you get while playing especially in PSO.

Now why you didn't get frame loss on your system is beyond me, but maybe you were playing it at 30-40 FPS which to many people is acceptable.[/spoiler-box]

that's the thing, i didn't suffer any slowdown at all, nor any bugs, the CBT ran as smooth as my console games and smoother then 360 PSU ever did+^_^+ highest score i got with the benchmark was something like 2.5K, and the lowest was 75, it just sort of averages out at 2xx. i decided to chalk it up to my slightly unstable video card OC, ima down-clock it and try again sometime and see what i get (if i feel like it)+^_^+ as for right now, ima hunt rutsus+^_^+

[Krisan]

Wow this thread is all about graphics now. Here's a screenshot I saw on the pso2 uploader that's a good example of texture quality.

Possibly NSFW
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.pso2-uploader.info/uploda/src/up2133.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Why, Sega, is underwear higher res than the rest of the character outfits? :(
I'd rather have sharp outfits and blocky underwear :/

It's not. I've extracted most of the textures and models from the game myself, and the underwear is not a separate map from the rest of the outfit. It only looks better in that screenshot due to the very minor effect lighting is having on it.. The rest of the textures look worse than they need to because of how heavily apparent the normal and specular maps are that close up and being exposed to that particular lighting.

You can see the texture map I extracted here for yourself:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu229/KrisanThyme/pl_bd_0018_d_fu_xx.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

[stheno]

It's not. I've extracted most of the textures and models from the game myself, and the underwear is not a separate map from the rest of the outfit. It only looks better in that screenshot due to the very minor effect lighting is having on it.. The rest of the textures look worse than they need to because of how heavily apparent the normal and specular maps are that close up and being exposed to that particular lighting.



Hmmmm does this mean it would be possible to have a fan-made high res texture pack/patch?

[Chik'Tikka]

Hmmmm does this mean it would be possible to have a fan-made high res texture pack/patch?

i would like this, but I'm worried SEGA might have a way of detecting this in the future+^_^+

[Krisan]

Hmmmm does this mean it would be possible to have a fan-made high res texture pack/patch?

Technically, yes this would be possible. As of the Closed Beta though, the container format for most of the games resources was updated, making it a bit more of a pain in the butt to extract.. Creating new containers is also not exactly user-friendly at the moment either.

Still though, it's possible yes.
You could even change how much of an outfit is color-enabled by altering the appropriate map:

[spoiler-box]http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu229/KrisanThyme/pl_bd_0018_m_fu_xx.png[/spoiler-box]


i would like this, but I'm worried SEGA might have a way of detecting this in the future+^_^+
It wouldn't be a bannable offense, since it's a client modification and no one else could see it. It's no worse than the fan-translation we've used. They might make it harder for us to modify this kind of thing, but eh..

[Peejay]

If you want to get technical, an outfit is already completely enabled, you just need the colour ticket to change sub-colours.

[Krisan]

If you want to get technical, an outfit is already completely enabled, you just need the colour ticket to change sub-colours.

That's not what I meant at all. I was referring to the ability to change the color maps so other parts of the outfit could be colorized. The color-ticket doesn't allow you to do that, it just gives you a full RGB range to use on the same area as usual.

[RocSage]

It's not. I've extracted most of the textures and models from the game myself, and the underwear is not a separate map from the rest of the outfit. It only looks better in that screenshot due to the very minor effect lighting is having on it.. The rest of the textures look worse than they need to because of how heavily apparent the normal and specular maps are that close up and being exposed to that particular lighting.

You can see the texture map I extracted here for yourself:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu229/KrisanThyme/pl_bd_0018_d_fu_xx.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Much of what people are calling higher resolution seems to be that they are mixing up is what actually is higher and lower resolution and what makes what look better. The panties in that picture look better largely because of an illusion of a 3d surface on a flat surface. rather than an illusion of 3d on several flat surfaces.

Light looks different on a surface that is formed like this...
/`\ /`\ than a surface that is a surface that is like this: _
lighting and things are drawn on the second in a different style than the first thus allowing for a different appearance of resolution for the two.

[RocSage]

That's not what I meant at all. I was referring to the ability to change the color maps so other parts of the outfit could be colorized. The color-ticket doesn't allow you to do that, it just gives you a full RGB range to use on the same area as usual.

For those that don't know, the texture map that you provided has that purple color on it. The purple color represents a "variable" that can be replaced by the user. Because of this if you have access to those files you can just turn the whole file that color and then make it all one variable. They can also add in other colors that represent variables as well, but most games keep these colors to a minimum.

CoH allows you to mess with these files unofficially and while it is fun for a short while i find it pretty boring.

[ShadowDragon28]

They're always looking for people, and if you read more, you would see that most of the job postings are contract based.

Now once again, why is it so hard for people to understand the concept of what's common in the US is not in Japan/Asia. Things we take for granted in western games is not something Japanese industry accepts as standard.

Artist that only do Shaders in that regions industry do not exist. Everyone there does multi roles. When they are streamlining a game which is common practice over there unlike here in the US(which is nice if they actually did it for more than just one system). They actually will remove things from the engine that will cause a performance hit of any sort.

Now looking at the base Japanese PC. What can be run off of that without sacrificing performance, remember unlike us, they do not just go out and do a full PC upgrade for one game. Maintaining what's there, what we saw in CBT is the best optimization of the game to run on as many PCs as possible.

How many people here were able to run the game with max graphics? or even just having shaders on?

If we were to take that poll you would see maybe half were able to run with shaders. This is why they released a PSO2 specific Benchmarking tool. Which is very detailed and tells you what settings should be set to play at the recommended FPS.

With the adjustments that are being discussed, if the engine has not been coded to only use certain shaders and lighting effects on certain surfaces/textures. Would put an increase strain on not only the CPU for all the particle effects taking place, but also on the GPU which has to deal with the high res textures and shaders.

On top of it all we also have to include the fact there is no option to turn off Vsync, Which also puts a strain on the system. Anti-Aliasing, which has no specific setting except of on and off, also adds to that strain. Top it all off with the fact they also added motion blur and atmospheric effects. Yeah.....

You guys are disregarding simple engine resource allocation. Let's compare to Tera which is highly graphically extensive and a MMO. If you notice certain effects that are present in PSO2 are not present in Tera. I bet you guys can figure out which ones I'm talking about without me saying anything.

For the intended purpose of adding those little things you mentioning, they would need to remove half of the other effects that in the game atm, just cause guys think the environment is not good enough? I must say you guys have not played many Multiplayer games, or least not payed attention to game itself in detail.

With everything that has been mentioned, putting in the man hours for coders to edit the engine for the artist to add the higher res stuff and better lighting and shaders. Your talking about a good amount of work and time.

As we all know, Time is money. With a deadline that must be met, guess what? not going to happen. Delays cost companies money, alot of money. I don't know if you guys have heard the horror stories about the higher echilons going beserk because someone mentioned a delay. Or how much hell they are put through to meet deadlines.

You guys seem to know alot about the art aspect of game making, but you don't seem to know anything about work constraints and deadlines. Hell I bet you guys don't even know that most projects, your locked on specific version of the software that you use until the project is done. Perhaps the latest version allows them to do something that the version they're using can't do, oh well, your stuck with the tools you are given.

QFT.
I think the game's enviroments and models look fantastic with full shaders on. Unfortunately due to my graphics card limitations I have to run the game on "low shaders" or whatever that setting is. :(