AC scratch can exclude the reward items for completion

[aslan_blue]

Today, Japanese authority announced that they will request Japanese social game companies to stop selling reward items for completing gacha.

Authority said "it's against Japanese Act against Unjustifiable Premiums and Misleading Representations"

In fact, this"gacha complete"system has been accused in Japan because of its specurative sprit.

Today's decision by Japanese government will influence the　rate schedule of PSO2.

http://www.inside-games.jp/article/2012/05/05/56364.html

[Chik'Tikka]

+^_^+ that was one of the things i think that would slow down a US release+^_^+ it's against the law for minors to gamble online with real currency (and how do you prevent minors from playing PSO2?), even if it's traded into a valued point system like Microsoft Points+^_^+ it seems to me Japan is doing something similar now+^_^+

[soulpimpwizzurd]

now dis, is scandalous.

does this exist for korean games? nexon's only way of making money is generally off of gacha schemes lolll

[Priest]

If I understand it the way I think I do, this is a good thing. Then those items will just be cash shop items, right? So I can buy those costumes directly instead of getting lucky!

[Sizustar]

If I understand it the way I think I do, this is a good thing. Then those items will just be cash shop items, right? So I can buy those costumes directly instead of getting lucky!

Not really, as F2P game depends on micro-transaction, with the gacha system being outlawed, if it is their primary method of income, it would probabely require them to charge more for more feature that are origionally planned ot be free.
Although this seems to be primary focused on Cellphone game's micro-transaction.

[Vashyron]

It's about Gacha completion items, such as the Rappy Suit reward in CBT.

[RocSage]

Not really, as F2P game depends on micro-transaction, with the gacha system being outlawed, if it is their primary method of income, it would probabely require them to charge more for more feature that are origionally planned ot be free.

I don't think it's the scratch items all together that is the problem, but the outfits. I don't want 85,000 of the same outfit because 1 is all i need and can use. However I could probably use 1000000000000000000000000 of just about any of the other items in there. The thing is. The costumes are what people want so you keep going for them and get duplicates of stuff you don't want.

So it sounds like the scratch items are not being "changed" but rather they are making it so there has to be a way to exclude getting certain items over and over again.

[Dabian]

Would it help/hinder if the item in question was also available at a premium AC cost?

[Macman]

You heard it. Japanese law says it's a crime to force people to spend that much money to be a Rappy.

[D-Inferno]

Sadly, this probably doesn't affect the requirements for changing your color in the color room (it required you to simply trade 12 gacha clothes, ans multiples of the same were allowed).

I really hope that 12 Gacha clothes (aka 120 ARKS cash maybe) is not necessary for making my FOnewm's base color 255/0/0 Red in the final.

[~Inu~]

You heard it. Japanese law says it's a crime to force people to spend that much money to be a Rappy.

Boo. Gambling laws.
Similar ideas ruined the Game Corner in the newer Pokemon games :argh:

[HeartBreak301]

At least the game corner wasn't actually trying to rip you off.

[D-Inferno]

The game corner did cheat though (the game apparently deliberately trolls you out of getting a 7-row). I actually liked that they replaced the slots with Voltorb Flip in HG/SS (I was not happy about being unable to exchange cash for coins though). Plus with TMs being reusable

[Tenlade]

At least the game corner wasn't actually trying to rip you off.
Actually they kinda were (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Slot_machine#Trivia)
The slots in Pokemon games function like actual slot machines and will prevent you from paying out too often, as well as each slot machine you can play on having different odds.
But no one cared because they just exchange money for coins because who wants to sit there and take the time to rack up 9999 just to get a Porygon?

[HeartBreak301]

I meant you're not actually buying the coins with real currency like you do with AC.

[Cyrusnagisa]

all this would really do is just remove the Rappy from the completion, and add it to cash shop or make it one of the random items in the scratch.

[SELENNA]

Microtransactions killed this gen of gaming, so I'm glad lottery style stuff is covered by law. Honestly, gacha is the last thing I want to see in PSO, and I'm glad the developers will maybe think it was bad too in the first place. Also, F2P sucks, that's why you'll only have FOUR areas to begin with people, should feel old about a week or so, just like the closed beta. Ten years ago, we had Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II and, wait for it....4 new areas plus the 4 areas you had in PSO, for a total of 8, not counting sub-areas stuff like Beach, Mountains and Jungle.

Now you'll have to spend a lot of real money to get an item that's not really worth it, they'll make sure the % is low as fuck just to make you spend a lot of money. How is that fun? Maybe if there was a way to get Ark Cash in-game I wouldn't be so damn annoyed, but there isn't. And maybe if they had planned to charge us for the game it wouldn't feel so empty and repetitive. IMO it will not do so well if it launches worldwide, might do okay in Japan sure but even with an E3 reveal I'm willing to bet the game will tank in North America and other continents. The problem is people are burned with the MMO questing systems, even in TERA I can't believe how bad it is, the grind in PSO 2 is abysmal especially if you compare it to other PSOs.

[Indignation Judgment]

Sadly, this probably doesn't affect the requirements for changing your color in the color room (it required you to simply trade 12 gacha clothes, ans multiples of the same were allowed).

I really hope that 12 Gacha clothes (aka 120 ARKS cash maybe) is not necessary for making my FOnewm's base color 255/0/0 Red in the final.

12 any clothes. The ones given for the Rappy gaccha completion were just colour variations from the ones avaliable on the armor shop.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Microtransactions killed this gen of gaming, so I'm glad lottery style stuff is covered by law. Honestly, gacha is the last thing I want to see in PSO, and I'm glad the developers will maybe think it was bad too in the first place. Also, F2P sucks, that's why you'll only have FOUR areas to begin with people, should feel old about a week or so, just like the closed beta. Ten years ago, we had Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II and, wait for it....4 new areas plus the 4 areas you had in PSO, for a total of 8, not counting sub-areas stuff like Beach, Mountains and Jungle.

i know that console games aren't necessarily f2p's direct opposite, but if you think about it, many, many popular console games these days aren't coming out at only 59.99 or whatever they are now (last time i bought a console game new it was 49.99 for gamecube lol).

the whole paying for DLC nonsense comes to mind, if you will. like how shooting games don't release with all maps available. you have to buy them later on, etc.

honestly even if the game was p2p, i feel like it wouldn't have been drastically different, in terms of content released at launch. mainly because this whole make a game and sell half of it for full price thing is pretty popular, and is becoming rather main stream. even online games seem like they aren't safe from this tactic.

[Tenlade]

Microtransactions killed this gen of gaming, so I'm glad lottery style stuff is covered by law. Honestly, gacha is the last thing I want to see in PSO, and I'm glad the developers will maybe think it was bad too in the first place. Also, F2P sucks.
Now you'll have to spend a lot of real money to get an item that's not really worth it, they'll make sure the % is low as fuck just to make you spend a lot of money. How is that fun?
*more complaining for the sake of complaining*.


F2P Is honestly helping the mmo market stay alive. more hardcore fans would be more then willing to pay a subscription, but for people like younger players who don't have credit cards or people on small budgets who cant afford to pay monthly this still lets them enjoy the game and give the developers whatever money they can afford..

Also common logic dictates that if the item you're spending on is worth a lot of money and not really worth it, then you most likely arent going to buy it.


I meant you're not actually buying the coins with real currency like you do with AC.

Hey, time is money, and if anything Voltorb flip is a Waste of time.

[Blackheart521]

12 any clothes. The ones given for the Rappy gaccha completion were just colour variations from the ones avaliable on the armor shop.

true that they were color variations, but the parts of the outfit those gacha outfits changed cannot be changed with a recolor, that color is locked and you change a different part of the outfit in the esthe and those clothes cannot be bought at the meseta clothes store, making them unique... like the humar outfit is normally a navy blue/ black that can't be changed on part of the outfit then the other color that CAN be changed is the belly and shoulder areas, but in order to change that you have to get a different variant of that outfit on the gacha so they are unique outfits in themselves.

[Ryudo]

12 any clothes. The ones given for the Rappy gaccha completion were just colour variations from the ones avaliable on the armor shop.

the ones from the shop dont work, we tested it in the beta

[NoiseHERO]

It's about Gacha completion items, such as the Rappy Suit reward in CBT.

I'm PRETTY sure they are indeed JUST talking about this, I dunno where people are jumping to the conclusion that they migh take out the gacha, at least I HOPE people aren't jumping to that conclusion...

I WOULD say it'd be nice if they removed the gacha...

But part of the reason the Gacha is interesting is that EVERYTHING in it is tradeable. So instead of having to ask a friend to buy you an AC item or buy an AC item from a stranger at some made up amount of meseta per AC. People would play the gacha and get a lot of spare items. Then it would be a complete waste NOT to sell all of those extra items, and that's where poor people can get their chance at "AC" fashions.

Or if you didn't get that outfit or item you wanted for the gacha, selling all the things you didn't want, you can just buy what you wanted. I'd really perfer this over having to get someone to buy an item for me directly. Because obviously if everyone can just buy whatever they want directly. They're only going to buy what they need, and getting them to buy it for you it'll probably cost MORE, assuming you can even trust them.

[Mike]

I'm PRETTY sure they are indeed JUST talking about this, I dunno where people are jumping to the conclusion that they migh take out the gacha, at least I HOPE people aren't jumping to that conclusion...
You're right. They are just talking about the "complete sheet" style of gacha. Non-complete sheet gachas are still legal. I think people are hoping that this leads to the complete abandoment of the gacha style system but it's still too much of a money maker for game companies to give up.

[Goat666]

the only logical consequence i can see is rappy suit getting any other obtaining method which is probably gonna be cheaper thus good newz for who wants one.
I'm just glad if they don't have to waste time or money because of this

[Sakarisei]

But changing color is not the same to force a person to spending lots of AC for being a rappy. I dunno if 10AC is for example... 4-5$. The problem of rappy's clothes is that in released version, you're forced to spend minimum 100$ dollars to receive every AC clothes that you need for unlocking it...

I know that SEGA needs money for survive. However, SEGA mustn't force a lot of people to pay. Or at least, AC should be easy for any user.

Greetings.

[kyuuketsuki]

Also, F2P sucks, that's why you'll only have FOUR areas to begin with people, should feel old about a week or so, just like the closed beta. Ten years ago, we had Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II and, wait for it....4 new areas plus the 4 areas you had in PSO, for a total of 8, not counting sub-areas stuff like Beach, Mountains and Jungle.
Ignoring the fact that complaining about F2P isn't really on-topic, you're just bein ridiculous. PSO was P2P, and it released with 4 areas. Four. It didn't get new areas until later, and you had to pay for a new game and make new characters.

We get it Selenna. You hate PSO2 and blame it all on the eeeeeevil F2P model. PSO2 is not going to change to some other model at this point. That ship has sailed.

Now, as for the actual topic of the thread: it's difficult to tell due to the broken English of the original post and lack of familiarity with Japanese laws on gambling, but I think
Mike is right that this only applies to the completion card system where you are rewarded for obtaining a certain set of items through the gacha (like how you got the Rappy Suit in closed beta). The gacha itself is not illegal.

[kudo]

Anyone could get a more detailed translation on that article? I don't see why winning something after collecting a group would be gambling in any way to be honest. Unfamiliar with Japanese law but well, I don't see it.

[Xieveral]

+^_^+ that was one of the things i think that would slow down a US release+^_^+ it's against the law for minors to gamble online with real currency (and how do you prevent minors from playing PSO2?), even if it's traded into a valued point system like Microsoft Points+^_^+ it seems to me Japan is doing something similar now+^_^+

City of Heroes recently added a gacha-like feature celled super packs, they cost roughly a dollar each with random items, most people are after the wolf pet which is a rare prize.

CoH is an American-based game.

So there's propably some loophole if that is in fact a law.

[Hrith]

That is good news, on the whole. The model video-games are adopting is nothing but dishonest. Governments fighting dishonesty is a good sign.

[Tycho]

in b4 Rappy Suits as an extra for spending $100+ on AC at once

[aslan_blue]

This is the "GUIDELINES FOR THE INTERPRETATION OF THE NOTIFICATION ON PREMIUM OFFERSBY LOTTERIES OR PRIZE COMPETITION" in Japan.

http://warp.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/286894/www.jftc.go.jp/e-page/legislation/premiums/Lotteries.pdf

I assume this case violated Ⅳ-C.
I'm not so familiar with the law,however.

[Macman]

Honestly, the consumable nature of most gacha items is not worth the pricetag they'll probably put on a single ticket (probably around $2 each).

Can you imagine spending $2 just to get an item that'll give your mag 2 levels in a stat you don't care about?

[aslan_blue]

Honestly, the consumable nature of most gacha items is not worth the pricetag they'll probably put on a single ticket (probably around $2 each).

Can you imagine spending $2 just to get an item that'll give your mag 2 levels in a stat you don't care about?

Yeah, I can't agree more.

[kyuuketsuki]

Honestly, the consumable nature of most gacha items is not worth the pricetag they'll probably put on a single ticket (probably around $2 each
Except it could just as well not be $2. It could be $1. Or $0.50. Or $0.10. Or maybe $5. We really have no idea.

[Peejay]

City of Heroes recently added a gacha-like feature celled super packs, they cost roughly a dollar each with random items, most people are after the wolf pet which is a rare prize.

CoH is an American-based game.

So there's propably some loophole if that is in fact a law.

It goes as far as You're paying for in-game currency, which isn't dedicated solely to cash gacha. In most games, you have a shop, and that on the side.

There are imported games like Cosmic Break which are the same way, though the Gacha is much larger and I don't understand how they legally function, because that company is not only xenophobic as all hell because an American went to the JP server and beat a tourney winner, prompting a U.S. IP ban, but people have sunk thousands of dollars just for one thing and haven't gotten it, all they can hope for is a mention.

So, I'm thinking the Currency > Currency > Maybe Gacha is what it's going by. Chik'Tikka mentioned straight up using Microsoft points, but that'd be garbage because it's Currency to Gacha, there's no interim options in there to my understanding.

[Sakarisei]

Honestly, the consumable nature of most gacha items is not worth the pricetag they'll probably put on a single ticket (probably around $2 each).

Can you imagine spending $2 just to get an item that'll give your mag 2 levels in a stat you don't care about?

I prefer for a ticket 1$ or 0.50$.

However, if a ticket is the same of a premium (Because a ticket costs 10 AC and 30days of premium, i mean other 10 AC too) ... the arks scratch would be very expensive...

[Powder Keg]

Honestly, the consumable nature of most gacha items is not worth the pricetag they'll probably put on a single ticket (probably around $2 each).

Can you imagine spending $2 just to get an item that'll give your mag 2 levels in a stat you don't care about?

That's what I fear about this game. Big time. If anything worth getting is pay only and not having fun working to obtain it or a "gamble" then this game is going to be worthless.

[Macman]

However, if a ticket is the same of a premium (Because a ticket costs 10 AC and 30days of premium, i mean other 10 AC too) ... the arks scratch would be very expensive... You can't seriously think those are the final prices...

[aslan_blue]

Daily Yomiuri updated the article about this case.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T120505002978.htm

[Arika]

I don't like gacha system too. I prefer to just purchase it at fix price for the item I want. I don't mind higher price for some item.

[PSO Addict]

I am quite happy with my outfit as is and don't think I'll be investing too much into the scrath cards as it is. I think I'll just be maintaining premium access and just gambling with my fun points.

I like how the thread turns into a discussion of pokemon and their game rooms.... haha

[Neith]

Would much rather have things costing slightly (and I mean slightly) more than random chance dictating it. I got the Rappy Suit from CBT but it took a huge amount of gacha uses to get the entire gacha set to get it. If that was with real money you'd have potentially spent a huge amount.

Honestly gachas were a bad idea anyway, if you want to include them have them for use with FUN or Meseta, not AC... I do wonder how this will affect PSO2's release though.

[NoiseHERO]

I still like the idea that people that don't buy AC, get a chance at buying the unique items you can get from the gachas from player shops.

If you could buy them directly, there would be no spares to sell.

The only thing is, people that DO pay for the gacha's and their own stuff in general, are forced to gamble. for what they want, and trying the gacha myself I used like 55 tickets in one go and wasn't feeling the outfit chances. @_@

But they DID say they would make a gacha that had ONLY outfits in them...

[Rauten]

If you could buy them directly, there would be no spares to sell.

Not necesarilly, there are a bunch of games (TERA comes to mind, with their time scrolls) that are considering alternatives to circumvent RMTs in a player-friendly manner, and direct purchase could work very well.

The idea for PSO2, if you could buy clothes directly, would be:

Player A has a lot of meseta, but is kinda short on real money, and wants a certain armour to complete his look.

Player B is very short on meseta, but has quite a bit of spare cash in his bank account.

A & B reach an agreement for B to buy the piece of armour, then trade it to A in exchange of the meseta.

B has succesfully turned real life money into meseta, and not only did no RMTs benefit from it, but another fellow player now has the armour he was looking for, and the one receiving the real money is the service provider, in this case, SEGA.

[Sizustar]

Not necesarilly, there are a bunch of games (TERA comes to mind, with their time scrolls) that are considering alternatives to circumvent RMTs in a player-friendly manner, and direct purchase could work very well.

The idea for PSO2, if you could buy clothes directly, would be:

Player A has a lot of meseta, but is kinda short on real money, and wants a certain armour to complete his look.

Player B is very short on meseta, but has quite a bit of spare cash in his bank account.

A & B reach an agreement for B to buy the piece of armour, then trade it to A in exchange of the meseta.

B has succesfully turned real life money into meseta, and not only did no RMTs benefit from it, but another fellow player now has the armour he was looking for, and the one receiving the real money is the service provider, in this case, SEGA.

This method is terrible, and is what pretty much ruined MMORPG in Taiwan and China.

With Gold farmer and trader that deals in cash only, and as they control the "rare" item, they can artifically raise the price of item to what ever they want.

The genral method is.
Sell Cash rare for ingame cash, then sell ingame cash for real cash, as they control the supply, they can charge the price for item.
Take Elsword Tw, a full avatar set can be sold for IRL 300~400 USD

With the Gacha system, we're guranteed a steady and abundent supply of "rare" that people will sell in the mesta store, thus taking out the cash farmer that deal in direct trading only.

[White]

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE Gachas. I would rather pay a fixed price for the things I want, those things just rip you off A LOOOOT.

[Zorafim]

Huh. I knew gambling was unethical, but I'm surprised lawmakers had to step in. Really, I'm sure we all agree that the Gatcha is a terrible and unethical design. All that it is, is gambling. Here, give me the price for each ticket and the chance at the item you want dropping, and I'll tell you how much money you're going to spend for it. I'd rather pay that price for the item, than have a chance at getting that item after scratching off a bunch of cards. Why do people think that's fun, anyway?

I am not looking forward to an item that looks amazing being gatcha only. It's bad enough when you have to pay real money to get it instead of working for it yourself, but paying real money for a chance at it is even worse. I'm hoping that it'll remain just that rappy suit stuff and no real neat clothing.

I'm sorry for subjecting PSOW to the terrors of WoW, but here's another Blizzard example. Blizzard has recently been releasing amazing looking mounts and pets in their stores. I got a similar item when signing up for a deal, and yes, it looked amazing. But I stopped using it, because it felt cheap. I have all these mounts that I worked for, and the most spectacular one of these I got for no effort. It'd be even worse if I paid for it! I really hope I don't end up feeling like that here.



Typical hate filled post


Huh. It's actually happened. I've never skipped over someone's post before just because of who the poster was. But here we are.
Sorry Selenna, I'm sure you had a good point or two in there. But I can't be bothered to sift through your bias to find it.

[Halcyote]

Are people purposely missing the part where they're only talking about the reward items from completing a gacha prize set, and not the gacha itself?

If not, I'll restate it:

That rappy suit being a reward for getting all the outfits in whichever gacha we played in CB is illegal under Japanese law. Once launch happens, we won't --or rather, shouldn't-- see an ultimate prize like that in any of the gachas.

[Sizustar]

Are people purposely missing the part where they're only talking about the reward items from completing a gacha prize set, and not the gacha itself?

If not, I'll restate it:

That rappy suit being a reward for getting all the outfits in whichever gacha we played in CB is illegal under Japanese law. Once launch happens, we won't --or rather, shouldn't-- see an ultimate prize like that in any of the gachas.

The current situation only apply to Cellphone game, it doesn't affect MMORPG and PC yet.

[goldwing]

Are people purposely missing the part where they're only talking about the reward items from completing a gacha prize set, and not the gacha itself?

If not, I'll restate it:

That rappy suit being a reward for getting all the outfits in whichever gacha we played in CB is illegal under Japanese law. Once launch happens, we won't --or rather, shouldn't-- see an ultimate prize like that in any of the gachas.

im guessing they are counting it as gambling no?

[Randomness]

The current situation only apply to Cellphone game, it doesn't affect MMORPG and PC yet.

There's zero difference from a technological standpoint. Also, you should cite a source, because that sounds like it may have only been applied to cell games so far, which is significantly different from only being about them.

[Sizustar]

There's zero difference from a technological standpoint. Also, you should cite a source, because that sounds like it may have only been applied to cell games so far, which is significantly different from only being about them.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T120505002978.htm

And it's not exactly a law, it's a Consumer Affairs Agency that's investigating and haven't issued a official statement on the mobile phone games.

[Randomness]

So basically, a government agency is determining whether the activity violates current law. If that's the case, then there's no distinction between platforms. (Or damned well shouldn't be)

[MrTurkleton]

Am i the only person who doesnt see a problem with the ac scratch? I see them to be the same thing as mystery boxes you can buy of mini figurines you find at convetions. You can pay one price for the chance to get what you want or pay a little more to buy from someone else who already opened several.

As for the completion card thing though, i am glad to see that it has to go but im afraid to see how they will change it. There is always the chance they change it for the worst.

[Sizustar]

Am i the only person who doesnt see a problem with the ac scratch? I see them to be the same thing as mystery boxes you can buy of mini figurines you find at convetions. You can pay one price for the chance to get what you want or pay a little more to buy from someone else who already opened several.

As for the completion card thing though, i am glad to see that it has to go but im afraid to see how they will change it. There is always the chance they change it for the worst.

The Ark Scratch itself isn't a big problem.

Regarding the completion prize, two possibility.
1. Spend X amount to get the "prize"
2. Trade-in

[aslan_blue]

According to the Reuters, stock prices of social game companies steeply declined in today's Tokyo Exchange due to the "Complete Gacha shock".

Especially, stock prices of DeNA and GREE -two giants of social game industry in Japan- fell roughly 20% and forced to stop low.

It may lead to the corruption of social game bubble in Japan.

http://sp.reuters.co.jp/article/topNews/idJPTYE84600520120507

[sibladeko]

This law interested me a lot.
It's very focused and honestly I'm surprised it managed to pass without any opposition, as it invites more threats of gachapon odds regulation.
One of the reasons Nexon moved from Korea to Japan is that Korea finally started investigating MMO companies for their cash shop gachapon/slot machine practices, which basically for a lot of them were disguised as heavily-manipulated legalized gambling traps for the underage.
There's no requirement to display odds of in-game gambling devices in these games, as they all run on loopholes (convert real cash to in-game "credits," everything you are rolling for doesn't actually exist, etc.) but I'm glad to see Japan is taking notice of it.

I'm not against all gachapon in general in these types of games, but without any requirement to list the odds I have seen some of the worst rigging/manipulation by companies toward their users using these things.

[Sizustar]

This law interested me a lot.
It's very focused and honestly I'm surprised it managed to pass without any opposition, as it invites more threats of gachapon odds regulation.
One of the reasons Nexon moved from Korea to Japan is that Korea finally started investigating MMO companies for their cash shop gachapon/slot machine practices, which basically for a lot of them were disguised as heavily-manipulated legalized gambling traps for the underage.
There's no requirement to display odds of in-game gambling devices in these games, as they all run on loopholes (convert real cash to in-game "credits," everything you are rolling for doesn't actually exist, etc.) but I'm glad to see Japan is taking notice of it.

I'm not against all gachapon in general in these types of games, but without any requirement to list the odds I have seen some of the worst rigging/manipulation by companies toward their users using these things.

Actually, from what I understand, this law was pused by lobbyist of the pachinko industry, because of the competition from these new "technology"

[ClothoBuer]

Am i the only person who doesnt see a problem with the ac scratch? I see them to be the same thing as mystery boxes you can buy of mini figurines you find at convetions. You can pay one price for the chance to get what you want or pay a little more to buy from someone else who already opened several.

As for the completion card thing though, i am glad to see that it has to go but im afraid to see how they will change it. There is always the chance they change it for the worst.

No, you're not alone, it's just that the majority of people posting in this thread are very much against them. I myself thought they were a neat idea, even if it is nothing new to F2P models, but I can see why the government's trying to remove the completion prizes as well.

Quite honestly, with the way these things are heading, I wouldn't be at all surprised if countries start enacting laws on gambling with Intellectual Property, because it is starting to get out of hand, and some of these companies are screwing their playerbase with ridiculous odds.

[sibladeko]

Actually, from what I understand, this law was pused by lobbyist of the pachinko industry, because of the competition from these new "technology"

Ha I could see that happening. And that is also horribly depressing, that the only way Japan would look at its gambling problem is if lobbyists from one group of "fake" gambling companies would complain about another group of "fake" gambling companies.

[Mike]

So basically, a government agency is determining whether the activity violates current law. If that's the case, then there's no distinction between platforms. (Or damned well shouldn't be)
I haven't seen anything in any articles about it only applying to cell phones actually. Cell phones are the main place where complete gachas exist but you can be sure that it'll apply to PC games and other browser games.


Ha I could see that happening. And that is also horribly depressing, that the only way Japan would look at its gambling problem is if lobbyists from one group of "fake" gambling companies would complain about another group of "fake" gambling companies.
One fake gambling business is "regulated" and the other is not. Of course the one that has to bow to government regulations is gonna call foul on the one that doesn't.

[Chik'Tikka]

And this is just JP laws+^_^+ anyone look into European and NA laws that could affect the release of localized versions of PSO2?

[sibladeko]

One fake gambling business is "regulated" and the other is not. Of course the one that has to bow to government regulations is gonna call foul on the one that doesn't.

Pachinko is about as regulated as an online slot machine in a game.
That is to say, it's not.
The only law that exists is "you can't play for cash," except it's more "you can't exchange for cash in the actual premises" aka you go next door to a small place run by the same pachinko parlor owners and trade in your fake prizes you got in the parlor for actual cash.
Oh, and since pachinko isn't technically gambling in Japan (because gambling is illegal there), no odds are required to be displayed or anything either.
It's a horribly destructive type of gambling that brings in no additional revenue through tourism or construction and it's completely antisocial as well.

[Mike]

Pachinko is about as regulated as an online slot machine in a game.
That is to say, it's not.
The only law that exists is "you can't play for cash," except it's more "you can't exchange for cash in the actual premises" aka you go next door to a small place run by the same pachinko parlor owners and trade in your fake prizes you got in the parlor for actual cash.
Oh, and since pachinko isn't technically gambling in Japan (because gambling is illegal there), no odds are required to be displayed or anything either.
If you're going to call that not regulated, then nothing is regulated. It is regulated (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%91%E3%83%81%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B3#.E6.B3.95.E7. 9A.84.E6.A0.B9.E6.8B.A0), though not very strictly. Individual machines are required to have at least a 1 in 400 chance at winning in order for the place using them to get the proper documents in order to be run legally.

[Mike]

What a sudden twist! Japanese agency denied the broadcasting about "complete Gacha". And they enphasized that no order or measure has been issued against this case.

But they still keep investigating whether this "complete sheet method" is illiegal or not.

http://m.k-tai.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20120507_531028.html

Either way, I've seen at least one company that used to run a complete gacha (Winlight (http://www.winlight.co.jp/index2.php)) take down their complete gatcha and the stock prices of the big Japanese social game companies did take a hit too so I'm inclined to believe that there is something moving behind the scenes besides rumors.

[aslan_blue]

Either way, I've seen at least one company that used to run a complete gacha (Winlight (http://www.winlight.co.jp/index2.php)) take down their complete gatcha and the stock prices of the big Japanese social game companies did take a hit too so I'm inclined to believe that there is something moving behind the scenes besides rumors.

Yes, it seemed to be a fake article. It set me up （−＿−；）

In fact, Bloomberg confirmed that there would be ban on complete Gacha.

http://www.bloomberg.co.jp/news/123-M3MNKU6S972801.html

[aslan_blue]

WSJ updated the article about this "Complete Gacha"shock.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304363104577389170876785892.html?m od=WSJASIA_hpp_LEFTTopWhatNews

[Peejay]

Yes, it seemed to be a fake article. It set me up （−＿−；）

In fact, Bloomberg confirmed that there would be ban on complete Gacha.

http://www.bloomberg.co.jp/news/123-M3MNKU6S972801.html

It's funny, because the PSO2 news sites cited you directly. Even though you didn't have much decisive evidence at your disposal. It ends up being kind of foggy who is at fault.

[NoiseHERO]

You know I read too much manga when I read

WSJ (Wall Street Journal)

As Weekly Shounen Jump...

[PSO Addict]

That might be a sign.

[Kazzi]

Are people purposely missing the part where they're only talking about the reward items from completing a gacha prize set, and not the gacha itself?

If not, I'll restate it:

That rappy suit being a reward for getting all the outfits in whichever gacha we played in CB is illegal under Japanese law. Once launch happens, we won't --or rather, shouldn't-- see an ultimate prize like that in any of the gachas.

Wouldn't there be a way around that such as the trading of 12 AC costumes for the recolor ticket? Or would that be counted as illegal too?

[NoiseHERO]

Yeah that wall street stuff is boring and that your name being PSO addict must also be a sign. : O

[PSO Addict]

It's been my username for a long time... Though it is a bit of a sign. I will agree.

[Mike]

Wouldn't there be a way around that such as the trading of 12 AC costumes for the recolor ticket? Or would that be counted as illegal too?
That's probably one way around it. The stuff going on only covers the "complete gacha" method so that may be a loophole. I'm sure Sega is taking a good look at how they work the gacha now though and if there's a chance that something may end up drawing the ire of the Consumer Affairs Agency then it's likely to be changed.

[Kazzi]

That's probably one way around it. The stuff going on only covers the "complete gacha" method so that may be a loophole. I'm sure Sega is taking a good look at how the work the gacha now though and if there's a chance that something may end up drawing the ire of the Consumer Affairs Agency then it's likely to be changed.

Ah I see, thank you for explaining! I'm not a fan of gachas myself (you never get what you want from them), so I'm be quite happy to see some other method implemented.

[DemonMike]

That's probably one way around it. The stuff going on only covers the "complete gacha" method so that may be a loophole. I'm sure Sega is taking a good look at how they work the gacha now though and if there's a chance that something may end up drawing the ire of the Consumer Affairs Agency then it's likely to be changed.

There may be another loophole as well.

Because the gacha's in these games require a secondary in-game currency that people can only obtain by exchanging their real world cash, that's where the concern is coming from because gambling is illegal in Japan.

Now, in PSO2 we have three types of currency, Meseta, AC and FUN. Surely, and I think this is a possible grey-area, they could just make FUN the currency used to buy Gacha's? They only had one Gacha available for that in Closed Beta because obviously, AC was the money bringer.

But, if you allowed AC to be converted to FUN through the AC shop, yet still allowed people to earn FUN in the usual way which doesn't involve monetary exchange, they could have their cake and possibly eat it.

TL;DR version:
Gacha's stay the same, use FUN instead of AC
FUN in AC shop, 100 FUN for 10AC
Obviously no more FUN rewards for spending AC..
But FUN can still be earned through normal gameplay but at a reduced rate