Level 40 limit for final...

[Cayenne]

Simple topic, had this on my mind ever since i heard the news a while ago so here we go.

My only concern is, is level 40 too low of a cap at the start of launch considering the beginning level caps of past PSO/PSU/PSP games.

SEGA said they will raise it more and more as more content gets released and that makes perfect sense but 40?

Let's hear it.

[Chik'Tikka]

i think even into full release they are still doing testing, i think they capped it to 40 to limit possible glitchers/hackers from glitching their level up+^_^+ if such exploits are found, SEGA can fix them before raising the lvl cap+^_^+
EDIT: another thing i would like to mention is how other F2P MMOs do it, some of them you get near lvl 100 and it takes a week of farming the strongest enemies you can fight with cash shop exp boost items just to get 1% on a lvl+^_^+ i wouldn't be surprised if t took people 3 days constant runs to get from lvl 35 to 36+^_^+

[terrell707]

Since they are going in a different direction with this game and making your class represent your character level, I think it makes sense. Especially since you get 1 point for your skill tree every level. Makes me wonder what the MAX level will be. Honestly, I can't see it being any higher than 100. Or they would have to have a very locked down skill tree (you need like 15 points in one skill to go to the next) or you stop gaining skill points after a certain level.

Also if sub-classes come out in a future update, that will be another way to level your character. Kind of funny that NOTHING has been mentioned on them in quite a while though (other than Sakai stating that he wants to make additional classes)

[Polly]

Seems it may be a slight indication (though nobody can be too sure) of the content that will be ready to roll by the game's release, and possibly any supplemental content released thereafter. It was fairly easy to hit the cap in the closed beta, but nobody really knows what 20 more levels means as of yet.

I do find it odd that the cap for the open beta will be 30 with the final game adding only 10 more levels to that. If level progression could be used to gauge how much content they have ready, a lot of people will have seen 3/4 of the game's content by the time the game is released. That will certainly hold me back from trying to power level through those 30 levels in open beta form if the cap is any indication of how much content they'll have ready to release after the game's launch.

[BIG OLAF]

Not nearly high enough. People are going to cap out in less than a week, I predict. Not a smart way to start.

[Blackheart521]

Regardless of the level cap there'll be lots more to do after that, you can level your character to 40 on his/her 2 other classes, you can hunt for rares, do time trials, Finish up the matter board if you haven't, do more client orders, take npcs on missions to get their liking of you up, build up meseta... plenty to do after you hit the cap.

[Rauten]

Hrm, we'll see. Right now, I'm not too bothered by it, but it's gonna depend a LOT on how constant the stream of new content and increased caps will be. It can work, but it can also utterly fail.

[RocSage]

It's only a starting cap. PSO started at 100 PSU started at i think 20 or 30. Also they can expand as much as they want so I don't see the problem. As long as they leave enough memory for their variable to go up beyond some low number i don't see what the problem is.

[lostinseganet]

Too many people rush to level and consider the game over when they reach the cap. i think you should raise weapons instead of levels. That way it will take forever to reach max.

[Cayenne]

Not nearly high enough. People are going to cap out in less than a week, I predict. Not a smart way to start.

That's the main thought i had in my head.

[Porkmaster]

40 is WAY too low for release. Most of us will be level 30 going into it, hitting the cap within a few days to a week. There's always hard mode and challenge mode, which is where I will probably be spending most of my time post level 20, so we'll see how it turns out.

Now, level 40 wouldn't be so bad if we didn't have to pay for extra character slots. Just my two cents.

[Polly]

Too many people rush to level and consider the game over when they reach the cap. i think you should raise weapons instead of levels. That way it will take forever to reach max.

A good point. The game certainly isn't over once you hit the level cap, and there's still a good amount of fun to be had with friends and parties.

The issue I'm more worried about the game running into isn't really the level cap, it's more of "How much content do you really have?" PSU's launch was pretty bad from a level cap AND available content standpoint. Even with the nature of PSO2's more dynamic missions, there's still the idea that you'd be grinding out the same missions in the same places over and over. It worked for PSO, and maybe it worked for some in PSU (absolutely did not for me.), so it all hinges on what all there really is to do beyond watching numbers increase.

Best bet? Just get some friends who enjoy playing and hope that can carry you until the next content update.

[terrell707]

A good point. The game certainly isn't over once you hit the level cap, and there's still a good amount of fun to be had with friends and parties.

The issue I'm more worried about the game running into isn't really the level cap, it's more of "How much content do you really have?" PSU's launch was pretty bad from a level cap AND available content standpoint. Even with the nature of PSO2's more dynamic missions, there's still the idea that you'd be grinding out the same missions in the same places over and over. It worked for PSO, and maybe it worked for some in PSU (absolutely did not for me.), so it all hinges on what all there really is to do beyond watching numbers increase.

Best bet? Just get some friends who enjoy playing and hope that can carry you until the next content update.

I'm more worried about this because of Sakai's plan to update the game AT LEAST once a month. Pretty sure even with PSU, the game was updated weekly. There was usually a new quest at least every other week for about a year. So unless he means that he plans to bring about a big update at least once a month or that he plans to update the game, period, once a month is a little worrisome.

[Gardios]

Level doesn't matter because we don't know for sure if the EXP table in the CBT is identical to the OB one - we don't even know how fast 20->40 is.

[Dabian]

Content on release > level cap on release.

UNLESS

The level cap hindered our ability to do content. For instance, releasing content clearly intended for level cap + and treating that as the current "end game". Quite a number of games did that. And people either developed major frustrations or simply skipped it. Either way, bad for the game.

In other words, a level cap must go hand in hand with a "healthy" amount of launch day content to go with it. The devs can't really expect people to pace and enjoy themselves. As many of you have pointed out, there will be those whose sole mission on launch day will be to reach level cap. If content isn't quite there with that, we've got a problem.

[Strider_M]

I don't know the exact numbers in lvling up, but It's obviously takes longer to lvl up from Lvl 20 to 21 than it does to take lvl from lvl 1 to 2.

I mean to Level up from lvl 30 to 31 it may take as long as it took to lvl up from 1 to 30.

Of course if you adjust this for monsters that give out more exp in harder stages and Multiplayer maps that can randomly spawn boss monsters then you still got an issue.

STILL even if the cap it at 40 and I max that in a couple of weeks. When I reached the Max in the CBT I was hunter and I was like: "I learned all these Ranger Photon Arts.... I might as well switch to Ranger for a while!" and did so.

Then I- *A TEAL DEER RUNS BY* .....What Already!?

Basically... I'll be playing as ALL classes so that's like lvling up 120 times (or 117 as you don't lvl from 0 to 1)

[Porkmaster]

Then I- *A TEAL DEER RUNS BY*

Fuckin' lost it.

[Macman]

According to datamining, the character level cap is probably 100.

However, there has been evidence of eight difficulty levels with monsters ranging up to the near-200 level range.

I would assume they've left room for expansion now that they're on such an unhindered platform to develop for.

[Dabian]

If there's enough to do, a low level cap wouldn't matter. Except for those skills lower down on the tree that I must stare at until the cap's raised :p

[soulpimpwizzurd]

do we know the exp charts? they could just make it incredibly difficult to reach 40 simply due to the huge amount of exp required.

[Chaos Dragon]

I think no matter where you put it, some people are going to reach the max fast. It happens in all the PS games. I think they have a strategy behind what they're doing, like what Chik'Tikka was saying.


I'm more worried about this because of Sakai's plan to update the game AT LEAST once a month. Pretty sure even with PSU, the game was updated weekly. There was usually a new quest at least every other week for about a year. So unless he means that he plans to bring about a big update at least once a month or that he plans to update the game, period, once a month is a little worrisome.

Well. I don't mind this as much because the updates felt small and may have been rushed because they had to meet a deadline. Plus it may take more time with all the quality that they put into this game. I feel that they have more time to bring out better content now. We'll have to wait and see.

[Macman]

do we know the exp charts? they could just make it incredibly difficult to reach 40 simply due to the huge amount of exp required.
It's not set in stone, but it looks like it might take close to 500,000 EXP to reach 40 given what was found in the client. If I'm reading this thing right...

[~Inu~]

Not only do I like turtles, but I would really hope that someday the level cap is 200... I mean comeon, that's like the PSO dream.

I think 40 is decent for release day, if the level cap gets too high too fast then leveling may feel more important then fun for some people.
I would like to have a few weeks to focus on phat lewts and a classy My Room... Then I can travel to Animal Crossing Land and show Tom Nook my decoration skills.

[Chik'Tikka]

I think no matter where you put it, some people are going to reach the max fast. It happens in all the PS games. I think they have a strategy behind what they're doing, like what Chik'Tikka was saying.

WOOT!!! someone mentioned me in a post!!!+^_^+ *feels special and acknowledged*

[Clessy]

50 just seems more logical to me.

[lKeima]

IF your are able to transfer your open beta character to the real game, then getting from level 30 to 40 would not be that hard...

[Cayenne]

^that too

[FenixStryk]

Considering we have the EXP Tables and a pretty good idea of the amount of content that will be available at release (Forest, Caves, Urban Recovery, Desert Mines, Snow Fields and possibly ~three more maps, one of which may have Dark ____ as the boss)? 40 is low, but it makes sense. The content isn't there to put the cap any higher, even with Hard and Very Hard.

I'll burn through it as FO in a week, compete on the Challenge Leaderboards for a while, then get fed up with FO's low DPS and level HU or RA so I can be competitive on the boards. It will be short, and it will be sweet.

[Quatre52]

IF your are able to transfer your open beta character to the real game, then getting from level 30 to 40 would not be that hard...

Assuming OB lasts long enough to reach 30.

[Rubius-sama]

Didn't they pull the same crap with PSU? Well, not with character levels, but with actual levels and missions you could access. I remember the limit on content was the very reason I quit PSU after a month. Sega never learns it seems. No wonder they've fallen into the gutter they are now compared to 15 - 20 years ago.

[Quatre52]

Didn't they pull the same crap with PSU? Well, not with character levels, but with actual levels and missions you could access. I remember the limit on content was the very reason I quit PSU after a month. Sega never learns it seems. No wonder they've fallen into the gutter they are now compared to 15 - 20 years ago.

Wait..what?

This thread is about level cap, not content..level. PSUs lack of content early on has nothing to do with the current set level cap...(especially when we have no idea how long it lasts, how long the OB will last, how much exp it takes to level etc...)

[serenade]

i like turtles....


but seriously 40 is just fine. there's 3 classes, that's 120 levels you could earn. and i'm sure the first update will be a bump to 50 and a new area. from what i understand if they keep things updated regularly like they did with JP PSU everything will be fine.


i'll have 4 characters so it wont be an issue for me.

[Peejay]

I think this is just dandy. I expect them to actually have content ready until quite far in, but limiting it makes sure we actually have the ability to focus on other things, provided we don't all go totally autistic obsessive over the game.

I might actually be able to not lose my job!

[SELENNA]

It's stupidly low. From level 200 to 40, wow nice way to make sure your updates span for a couple years SEGA. What the fuck? And some people are actually ok with that?

[Quatre52]

What are you talking about level 200?

[Blackheart521]

What are you talking about level 200?

probably referring to psobb/episode 1&2 I would assume.

[Spellbinder]

It's stupidly low. From level 200 to 40, wow nice way to make sure your updates span for a couple years SEGA. What the fuck? And some people are actually ok with that?

Even for the original PSO, you do realize level 200 was not the level cap right? For a game we can play for free, the least we can do is wait to see at what rate they introduce new content and increase the level cap. And if you think they're going to let the game stay capped at level 40... I don't know what to say.

[Otaku27]

I vote to go higher as long as there is something to do or items to obtain.

[Blizz3112]

There's also a Mag you need to level, remember ;-)...

[Angelo]

Stepping into the eyes of someone who is a casual player that will spend humbly on cash shop...


...40 is perfectly fine for the 'vanilla' release of the game.

Most people spend an hour or two a day max playing an online game.

It took me about 26 hours to reach level 20 while popping exp boosters the entire time and playing leisurely.

The exp curve will only get tougher the higher your level goes up, so I'm going to assume it will take somewhere around 50 to 60 hours to reach cap, playing at a leisurely pace.

[NoiseHERO]

I just chose turtles because I too don't see the big deal in the level cap, but maybe an extra area or two would be nice.

[kyuuketsuki]

Didn't read past the first post, but my thought is: it's silly to point to other PSO/PSU games and say PSO2's level cap is too low because those other games had much higher caps. PSO2 is not those other games.

Experience gains are not the same. The amount of experience needed to progress through the levels is not the same. The quest and stage designs are not the same. Game balance is not the same.

If the cap is 40, it would seem likely that there also isn't content designed for characters over level 40 planned for launch. We have no idea how log it will take to hit cap, or if there will or won't be content to keep those at cap busy. I'm not terribly concerned about power leveled hitting cap really fast; it's impossible to provide enough content to prevent those sorts of people from running into a wall. There's still rare hunting, weapon and unit upgrading systems, leveling your mag, leveling your PAs and techs, socializing, decorating your room, all sorts of crap to keep you busy besides just looking to get that number to increase by one every so often.

Plus, unless I missed something, we don't know if they're going to unveil the subclass system at launch or not. And regardless, if a large portion of the population is hitting cap and getting bored, that's likely to be something they'd address considering they won't make money off people who aren't playing the game.

tl;dr version: I have no idea if the level being capped at 40 is too low, too high, or juuuuust right. Nobody here really does. But, I can't say the cap worries me at all at this point in time.

[Hayde]

The number for the level cap is not really too important these days. There are companies who have spent far longer developing a game, arguably speaking (I really have no idea how long PSO2 has been in development) but generally speaking...the level 50 caps of both Rift and SW:TOR were met with people hitting the cap within days. In terms of Japanese online games, we had our first level 50 (though, a crafter) in FF14 within the first week, and the first 50 battle/magic class within the first month.

The fact of the matter is when you have 8+ hours a day to put in a game, you're probably going to be unsatisfied with how quickly you reach cap on any game. If the past 10 years of online gaming has taught me nothing else, it's at least given me an incentive to slow things down.

During the course of CBT in the previous week, I was met with an unfortunate timing with finals and other projects; my time was extremely limited for up until the last 3 days of playing. To that end, I only managed to get one character/class to level 16 having only played for roughly 2-4 hours a day at best, not playing on others. If it was not for me playing excessively during the close of beta, I would have probably not gotten to 20, or get a chance to dab in the other classes. Clarification here: I meant to say that I only made it to level 16 before Friday, and I was able to grind out the rest during that weekend.

In the end, my point is unless they were to make equal level a gigantic grind--and who knows, maybe the exp required to level will grow substantially post-20, no amount of a cap would be satisfactory for anyone who has the time to play consistently. Let's say the game came out with a 60 cap instead; people would still easily hit that within 3 weeks easily, arguably less so if they had the hours to clock in. Even in the original PSO games, it was not until Version 2 and the additional episodes that exp climbed up substantially. Getting to your 20's only took maybe 2 days at best, and 60 was easily accomplished within a week or two. True, getting to a 100 or whatever the original cap was took a while--but that was only because Ultimate was not available and you were left grinding very hard mode.

[Krisan]

Turtles are awesome.

Also to be more on topic.. I really don't care about the level cap, so long as there are some really cool rares available, and a lot of client-orders available at launch. Leveling really isn't what the game is about, anyway. Shinies are where it's at.

[Ce'Nedra]

40 is right for me. Took me till last day of the beta to hit lv20 for me, let be level 40. And that was just 1 class I raised. For someone like me who plays only 2-3 hours a day lv40 is about right.

[redroses]

I think lv 40 sounds fine aswell, because unlike the other games you are leveling your class level and not your character level anymore.
So for some it will be easy to reach lv 40 if they only plan on playing one class. But if others plan on playing two or three classes that is 120 levels for them.
Besides, sub classes might be added for the launch which could mean, if you want to be Hunter with sub class Force you will most likely have to level some Force levels aswell. And as we do not know how long it takes from lv 20 to 40 it might be just right.

[Hrith]

How utterly disappointing...

I thought SEGA were supposed to listen to the players this time? Evidently not.

[Spellbinder]

How utterly disappointing...

I thought SEGA were supposed to listen to the players this time? Evidently not.

Could you elaborate please? I'm really not understanding the pessimism I'm seeing in this thread.

[FenixStryk]

It's stupidly low. From level 200 to 40, wow nice way to make sure your updates span for a couple years SEGA. What the fuck? And some people are actually ok with that?

How utterly disappointing...

I thought SEGA were supposed to listen to the players this time? Evidently not.Man, the expectations some of you have... PSO2 is a new F2P MMO that's being pushed out the door to meet a time frame. It takes a lot of gall to compare a new game to the very end of a predecessor's, one that had several revisions and content additions over the years. It's simply impossible for a new game to have more content than one that's had time to bake and expand.

To take the easy way out: what new MMO has more content than EverQuest 1, or World of Warcraft, or EVE Online? Very few, if any, and of course not! It's only natural for something that's existed longer, with more funding, development time and support, to have more depth to it.

PSO2 needs time. A cap of 40 seems low, but it is the best number to give considering the amount of missions that will be out once the game releases. If 40 is not enough, you've no choice but to wait until enough is added to rationalize a higher cap.

[Hrith]

Then how do you account for PSO EpI&II having nearly all content (including Lv200 cap) at the start and being more successful than games in which we were drip-fed?

The game being f2p is all the more reason to release everything right away. Therefore it's a bad idea for both the players and the company. Once again, great marketing...

[Blackheart521]

Then how do you account for PSO EpI&II having nearly all content (including Lv200 cap) at the start and being more successful than games in which we were drip-fed?

The game being f2p is all the more reason to release everything right away. Therefore it's a bad idea for both the players and the company. Once again, great marketing...

First of all, PSO had 8 maps in total between both episodes for 1 and 2 and had all the content between those 8 and 4 difficulties. sure it had all the content out at once but then after that there were NO UPDATES at all to new maps, just quests and events... until episode 4 came out and even then it was just a few more maps, and some weapons and mags.

this is going to be adding new maps, new difficulties, weapons, units, mag types, and clothes to the already 5 maps they have shown at a steady flow, giving us content as we go increases the longevity and lifespan of the game itself, and if they threw all the content at us at once and never added new stuff after that we'd be finished with it quick, and would have nothing to look forward to. It's a standard MMO practice, so there's no reason to really be surprised with the route they took.

[FenixStryk]

Then how do you account for PSO EpI&II having nearly all content (including Lv200 cap) at the start and being more successful than games in which we were drip-fed?

The game being f2p is all the more reason to release everything right away. Therefore it's a bad idea for both the players and the company. Once again, great marketing...PSO V1 had a level 100 cap, with a staggering four (!!!) levels and ~four bosses. WOW! THAT'S WAY MORE THAN WHAT PSO2 WILL HAVE AT RELEASE, HUH? /s (Spoilers: It's less)

Times change. Gamers want more for less whilst competition is fiercer than ever. These days, developers don't have the luxury of long development times and often have to release things "incomplete" in order to gain a profit from them. It's not easy.

If you want Sakai to add even more extra difficulties just so they can justify 60 more levels and artificially extended gameplay, that's on you. In the meantime, let them do their job and try not to turn your back on them.

[Dabian]

If you want everything released at once, it's on the assumption that all the content to go with the higher level cap is ready to ship. I have a suspicion that's not the case.

Of course part of me would like to curbstomp low level content as a level, say, 100. But it'd lose its appeal fast. Unless you're power-leveling friends maybe?

[Spellbinder]

Then how do you account for PSO EpI&II having nearly all content (including Lv200 cap) at the start and being more successful than games in which we were drip-fed?

The game being f2p is all the more reason to release everything right away. Therefore it's a bad idea for both the players and the company. Once again, great marketing...


The point's already for the most part been made. But really? You're going to use that excuse?

Do you really see Phantasy Star Online Episode 1 & 2 as a separate game compared to the dreamcast?

It's not like they had to make a new cutting edge game to compete with a bunch of other MMO's from scratch. All they had to do was add on to what they already had, in a fairly empty market of online games.

Compare the content of the game that was made from scratch (dreamcast version 1) to the other game made from scratch (PSO2), and then maybe we can have a debate.

[Hrith]

First of all, PSO had 8 maps in total between both episodes for 1 and 2 and had all the content between those 8 and 4 difficulties. sure it had all the content out at once but then after that there were NO UPDATES at all to new maps, just quests and events... until episode 4 came out and even then it was just a few more maps, and some weapons and mags.Wrong, we got the Control Tower :P


there's no reason to really be surprised with the route they took.Surprise is not the issue, disappointment is.


PSO V1 had a level 100 cap, with a staggering four levels and four bosses.[quote]I have been there since Japanese v1, I know the matter apparently better than you do. PSO v1 was not a very good game to begin with, but content was not the issue.

[quote]Let them do their job and try not to turn your back on them.Is it not their job to make sure I don't? You sound like the player is an inconvenience to the developers, lol.

You still have not explained why PSO EpI&II was more popular than games with drip-feeding. 'Times change' is not an argument. It's not that I do not want new things, I do, but I only want new things if they are better than the old ones, if not, it's a lose-lose situation.

I can safely bet that the time it took to get bored of any PSO version would be several times longer than it's going to take to get bored of a game with a level cap of 40 and little content (see PSU v1). The number of playable areas is hardly the issue, since it has never been - which your own post proves.

Maybe they plan to up the cap every month, making my complaint null and void, but I have seen too much SEGA, etc.

[Dabian]

Back then in EPI and II, it was imperative that content was finished before the game shipped. "Gone Gold" used to mean something because updates/after support were still alien concepts.

What you saw was what you got essentially. Downloadable missions don't count because they were application of already-on-disk assets. DLC as in DLC proper didn't exist back then. So the game had to ship with the whole nine yards.

Locking levels with that context would have been counter-intuitive.

Also, on the subject of popularity. PSO2's not out yet. And not arrived in western shores. Bear in mind PSU JP updates were plenty and (relatively) well paced. If you're referring to PSU US, well, /soothe. PSO2 planned content might be so big it makes "sense" from a player-retention standpoint to break it up. I wouldn't know.

The level cap isn't so much an issue as is the available content. I'd say chill till we get more concrete info.

[Spellbinder]

To my recollection, there were no "drip-feeding" games at the time of Episode 1 & 2, and quite honestly I think the phenomenon of of this game's popularity despite it's repetitive nature cannot be explained. Not to mention this game was a blip on the radar compared to other MMO's that few people actually know of if you ask them about it.

And you can't say that changing times is not an argument. If the fact that 2012 is a totally different market than 2002 is a moot point, how would you explain the change in a lot of game's business models offering free to play with premium services. Whether you like it or not, players tastes aren't the same as they used to be, and if companies want to stay above water they have to cater to these new tastes.

Not only that, but we have players who are spoiled by games that have been available for the past 7 to 10 years and expect anything fresh out the box to have as much if not more content and it's just not feasible.

SEGA is making a game that you can play, FOR FREE, that is very enjoyable and has created (is creating) a plan that will allow this game to last for years to come (Sakai said he'd like this game to last at least 10 years if memory serves), and provide us with a steady supply of updates.

If they have to start at 40 and gradually work its way up then so be it.

So far we have the two areas from closed beta, 2 new areas (possibly 3 if the mech monsters are in a different place), client orders, mags to raise, rares to find, gear to enhance, and more importantly, players to meet, make friends, and ENJOY ourselves.

Can we at least let the game release before saying how "disappointed" we are in SEGA?

[Macman]

Damn Hrith you whine too much.

There's actual room for them to push out content now that they aren't hindered by console limitations like before. I'm so sorry that you won't be able to do the equivalent of grinding to level 100 in Normal Caves, but dev time is running short, and they can add content later much easier on a PC platform than they ever could on a console.

Just relax, wait and see.

[pikachief]

Every forum post ive seen metion PSU's original level cap has been incorrect (im assuming because nobody really cares all that much) so i've just stopped by to give the correct number.

It was 50 and 60 shortly after.

Oh and the 40 cap for PSO2 is fine k bye :P

[Zek]

Although I do wish it was a little higher, PSO has never been about what level you are. It's about how many red boxes you can find.

[BWS-1]

We sure are far from the 200 cap, but I guess it is safe to keep it low at start. Not like I'd be bothered with being cap'd at 40 early if I'm ever to blitz there... there'll be so much other things to hunt/grind/farm/make to keep me busy! I WOULD like to see it cap 200 at one point, but hell, I'll probably never REACH 200 with PSO ver2, so I could say I don't mind that much... but at least make it reach 100 faster than ''WoW-pace'' (aka: they aren't even there yet <.< )

[D-Inferno]

The cap will probably go to like 50 or 60 within the next week or so; following with the release of the Ant Colony and/or Dragon Land. The after that, it'll probably up again, where we get Ruin and Dark Falz Seal.

[Ce'Nedra]

All this bitching about a level cap...like this topic will make sega change the cap from 40 to something else.

Sega decided on it, so either deal with it, shut your trap and play or just ignore the game at all and continue to whine on the forum which ain't gonna help at all.

Also stop comparing PSO2 with PSO and PSU, they are not the same games.

[H3Av3NS PUNISH3R]

I'm perfectly fine with the level cap being level 40. There's so much to do already; I don't think I would just waste my time grinding. By doing the client orders and exploring, you are bound to reach level cap anyway.

[Cayenne]

I'm laughing at the amount of people that like turtles.

I wouldn't want to level to 100 with only a handful of content, I rather like to progress as the game grows and grows. Besides, it won't reach beyond Level 100 TBH but hey you never know. This game is on the PC for a reason and SEGA knows what they're doing.

@Hrith, PSO for the Gamecube was what it was because of previous installments, updates, and years of development. PSO2 is a fresh new game.

Come on man, the game is free!


All this bitching about a level cap...like this topic will make sega change the cap from 40 to something else.

This thread isn't about changing the cap or bitching about it at all (well for most of us), I made it to see if 40 was the right number to start it off with. I mentioned PSO/PSU/PSP to give a general idea of what those games started off with (and PSO didn't start at lvl 200 *facepalm*).

If the level cap was 40 and never went up then yeah I would start bitching but it's not, it will grow lots and lots and SEGA did a smart move by doing that.

[Taitu]

We just have to wait and see. Nothing is set in stone yet for the actual release aside from this new level cap. Who's to say we won't get even more new areas upon release? These were reveals for Open Beta which both seemed doable at level 30. There may be ~level 40 areas added for the final release for all we know.

Just hitting the cap anyway won't be enough to be twinked. Anyone who is so obsessed with being as strong as possible shouldn't be satisfied with hitting the cap anyway. As for me I need to get my Mag to have a pure stat modifier as well as get a full palette of a weapon with each element at +10 with all the skills I want. That definitely won't be easy and if I manage to do it before they raise the cap again I'll be unbelievably surprised.

[Ceresa]

Just hitting the cap anyway won't be enough to be twinked. Anyone who is so obsessed with being as strong as possible shouldn't be satisfied with hitting the cap anyway. As for me I need to get my Mag to have a pure stat modifier as well as get a full palette of a weapon with each element at +10 with all the skills I want. That definitely won't be easy and if I manage to do it before they raise the cap again I'll be unbelievably surprised.

Yes, spending all our time twinking out the equivalent of a DB's Saber is surely the future of Phantasy Star we all envisioned. Shall we do it again a month later for Caladbolgs for +20 stats?

[Golto]

I think a lvl 40 cap at the start is ok with the areas that would be available at launch. Will we get to keep our chars from beta to launch? I thought most mmos don't carry-over beta chars.

People shouldn't compare pso2 launch content to pso dc/gc. Pso dc/gc had to have the vast majority of content done due to the very small storage space for downloads of those consoles.

[BIG OLAF]

I think a lvl 40 cap at the start is ok with the areas that would be available at launch. Will we get to keep our chars from beta to launch? I thought most mmos don't carry-over beta chars.

A lot of companies have started the whole Open Beta ---> Full Release character transfer model lately. I'm not surprised that SEGA followed suit.

[Kazzi]

All this bitching about a level cap...like this topic will make sega change the cap from 40 to something else.

Sega decided on it, so either deal with it, shut your trap and play or just ignore the game at all and continue to whine on the forum which ain't gonna help at all.

Also stop comparing PSO2 with PSO and PSU, they are not the same games.

This is a forum, of course people are going to discuss their opinions on the level cap. I think you need to deal with it.

40 isn't exactly going to be hard to reach (you can hit 20 in a day, especially if you're using the cash shop exp bonus), but from what they've been saying they plan on adding new content every month. I wouldn't be surprised if that level cap was continuously raised as more people start to reach it. It also depends on what sort of exp each of these areas are going to give, also taking into consideration the level 20 hard mode they've mentioned. I doubt it'll stay 40 for long.

[Cyrusnagisa]

40 is a good start, and I like the "raise the cap ever so often" approach. In all honestly there are more casual players then hard core, and this is a dungeon crawler style game.

[Zorafim]

I can't comment on 40 being too high or not, because I don't know what to compare it to. Is this going to be like getting to lv40 on normal mode PSO? If so, 40's a good number. It'd take quite a while to reach 40 in normal mode. But really, I've never been worried about levels. I just did as much as I could, and if I got levels, then great! From what I saw on the beta, there's quite a bit of content in. I spent all my time trying to do everything I could just in the forest, and that's just the first level. And I'm not expecting WoW level grinding here, so this makes sense to me.

By the looks of it, many people don't seem to get the patch driven development design that's going on. The way online games work now, is that the team works on a new feature, then implements it, and then works on the next feature. So yeah, we're starting off with squat, but the developers are being paid to give us more.

This isn't like PSU, which frankly had a herpaderp design philosophy. They saw that games updated incrementally, so they decided to do so as well. Except they didn't have the technology to do that, so they just made if feel like they updated incrementally. What we got was "new" content being old, even if you were in the jp servers. It was a horrible design.


It's stupidly low. From level 200 to 40, wow nice way to make sure your updates span for a couple years SEGA. What the fuck? And some people are actually ok with that?

It must suck to constantly be angry.

[Ce'Nedra]

This thread isn't about changing the cap or bitching about it at all (well for most of us), I made it to see if 40 was the right number to start it off with. I mentioned PSO/PSU/PSP to give a general idea of what those games started off with (and PSO didn't start at lvl 200 *facepalm*).

If the level cap was 40 and never went up then yeah I would start bitching but it's not, it will grow lots and lots and SEGA did a smart move by doing that.

I know, it just seems people these days think that stuff will acctually change as long they whine about it or something. No idea how whining about it solves anything *shrugs*

It doesn't matter how much or less content there is or how high or low the level cap is at the start. They have to begin somewhere.

[Peejay]

I know, it just seems people these days think that stuff will acctually change as long they whine about it or something.

Bluegrass democracy works in a similar way, but that works only because they aren't absolute morons and will organize their protests on paper to demonstrate their cause and number of backers. This won't work because, hey, it's not a petition, and you wouldn't even know where to send it if it was.

[condiments]

Like others had said, its hard to say whether this is an objectively bad decision or not. I am worried however. While this might not pose an initial problem as some of us gradually climb up to 40, we'll eventually hit cap.

Unless content updates can consistently outpace our ability to complete content a lot of us are going to be continuously be going through old content for ancillary things until the next update comes around.

Hell this might not be a bad thing. Given PSO2's free to play nature, it allows me to drop the game without consequence until a new patch comes around that interests me. For me, I'll most likely play Diablo 3 as my main online game, with PSO2 being my fun secondary game when it gets updated.

Personally I would liked to see way more content at release because I'm more partial to the PSO system. The ridiculous cap allowed for continuous improvement alongside all the other things I wished to accomplish. Stagnating at one level for extended periods of time is contrary to the progression based nature of these types of games.

Anyways we'll have to wait and see.

[SephirothXer0]

As someone with a full time job, friends to hang out with, a girlfriend, other hobbies and other games to play on top of this one, I probably won't even hit level 40 until the next few updates.

Hell, I just got to 120 in PSP2 and I've had that since release. The cap is fine to me

[Porkmaster]

As someone with a full time job, friends to hang out with, a girlfriend, other hobbies and other games to play on top of this one, I probably won't even hit level 40 until the next few updates.

Hell, I just got to 120 in PSP2 and I've had that since release. The cap is fine to me

But not everyone has a job, friends, or a girlfriend, or hobbies of any kind outside of video games. People like me need something to do. 40 is too low.

[Nurusanura]

You never know, with this game being more large-scale than previous PS titles, the cap may be well above 200 at one point, depending on how much profit SEGA makes off of this game. Though 200 would be quite an accomplishment, there will be a good amount of people at one point in time and well, that's what it may call for.

However, right now, a level 40 cap seems fair. 50 would have been better, but since i like turtles, 40 is fine. Whether or not liking turtles has any relevance to this topic.

[SStrikerR]

If all you do is play a videogame or two all the time, you're going to run out of content much faster than everybody else anyway, no matter what the cap is. SEGA isn't going to cater to the small minority without lives.

[Blizz3112]

What people seem to forget... World of Warcraft started with Lv. 60 at first, and eventually increased the level to 85... But people had problems doing stuff also... So, its wise for Sega to make a good entertaining hard conquests in the game for people to enjoy who leveled up to max...

Personally, as long as there's still enough stuff to do that is indeed challenging, it will never be a problem...

I wonder, would people prefer soft-cap instead of hard-cap?

[Hrith]

Damn Hrith you whine too much.Haha, Ryna will like this. You get bonus points from me for spelling my name right :P

Lv40 is too low, it's a fact. It may not be an issue at all if SEGA give us updates on a very regular basis, but they have not in previous games. Of course I played on the US servers, but so will I for PSO2 if the servers are not global =/


Downloadable missions don't count because they were application of already-on-disk assets.PSU was like that. Even if there is no disc per se, it's basically the same thing for PSO2, we already know all the content, and they're going to slowly unlock what has already been made and call it updates =/


PSO2 planned content might be so big it makes "sense" from a player-retention standpoint to break it up. I wouldn't know.Yes, I have said that in my own post, but if you have been there for half as long as I have, you would never dare to remain hopeful.


The level cap isn't so much an issue as the available content.I'd say it's the biggest issue, and the biggest concern for players. Most players that quit games quit when they hit the cap, not when they have found enough rares, played all areas or finished the story.


I'd say chill.I do not even know how to.


To my recollection, there were no "drip-feeding" games at the time of Episode 1 & 2Perhaps not, I do not play PC games, and there could not have been for technical issues on consoles. That is no excuse, though. If the gaming models were better back in 2002, why have they got worse?



You can't say that changing times is not an argument.It literally is not an argument. It's a fact, but it cannot be used as an argument.


If the fact that 2012 is a totally different market than 2002 is a moot point, how would you explain the change in a lot of game's business models offering free to play with premium services? Whether you like it or not, players tastes aren't the same as they used to be, and if companies want to stay above water they have to cater to these new tastes.That's exactly the thing. The models have not changed according to players' tastes, but to the share holders of companies. I have never discussed with a player who likes the models of drip-feeding content or microtransactions. The gaming models have not adapted to players, players have adapted to models they dislike, out of weakness and lack of conviction.


SEGA is making a game that you can play, FOR FREE, that is very enjoyable and has created (is creating) a plan that will allow this game to last for years to come (Sakai said he'd like this game to last at least 10 years if memory serves), and provide us with a steady supply of updates.They had promised the same for PSU. Still waiting.
Allowing a game to 'last' by stretching content is not a valid option.


Can we at least let the game release before saying how "disappointed" we are in SEGA?You must not have been in the PS loop long enough to remain so hopeful. If you have, you're too hopeful!


Yes, spending all our time twinking out the equivalent of a DB's Saber is surely the future of magely evokedPhantasy Star we all envisioned. Shall we do it again a month later for Caladbolgs for +20 stats?Exactly. People really have forgotten PSO BB and PSU v1.
If they handle the games the same way, they will fail the same way. People got bored of those games very fast because of all the reasons I have mentioned and Ceresa has expressed in a very clear pictorial post.


It must suck to constantly be angry.It's a state of mind, you learn to live with it.


What people seem to forget... World of Warcraft started with Lv60 at firstBad choice for a comparison, because Lv60 in WoW took a (very) long while to attain when it was first released, and WoW has actually had steady updates, unlike previous PS titles.


Edit: I really liked your posts Dabian and Spellbinder. Regardless of our points of view, at least your posts were intelligent and intelligible.

[Porkmaster]

Let's all just agree to disagree.

[Hrith]

It's an intelligent debate, not a petty flame war.

[Syphio]

Guys, it's true that level 40 is very low to start with, considering that in PSO, you could reach to 200 (100 before Blue Burst), but let's be fair with SEGA for a moment.

It's F2P
It's only starting (Open Beta, I mean, not even official release guys!)
You can take your time to try out othe classes fully without any exp loss

There's also a Mag you need to level, remember ;-)...
^That

So let's just sit tight on this one and enjoy it as it comes, ok?

[Blizz3112]

Bad choice for a comparison, because Lv60 in WoW took a (very) long while to attain when it was first released, and WoW has actually had steady updates, unlike previous PS titles.

If you mean, Blizzard can afford to take forever with their projects because they are making insane amounts of money, while other companies cannot... then yes, that's the case with World of Warcraft...

Still, Sonic Team gave their fans (japanese fans mostly, unfortunately) to test their project ahead and ask what needed to be adjusted to make the product more to their liking. Something they haven't don't before with their franchise. So, tell me, if they are willing to do that... maybe, just maybe, they want to make sure they have this thing running more smoothly than the other times...

Keep the fate for us all ;-)

[Quatre52]

Guys, it's true that level 40 is very low to start with, considering that in PSO, you could reach to 200 (100 before Blue Burst), but let's be fair with SEGA for a moment.

It's F2P
It's only starting (Open Beta, I mean, not even official release guys!)
You can take your time to try out othe classes fully without any exp loss

^That

So let's just sit tight on this one and enjoy it as it comes, ok?

Just to correct you, its been a cap of 200 since PSO v2.

PSO was the last game to cap at 100.

Really tho, none of this matters as we don't know the way experience gain will work in the full game.

[Blizz3112]

Wait! Could it be a Level Cap in order to play Hard Mode? LOL :-P

[Nurusanura]

Wait! Could it be a Level Cap in order to play Hard Mode? LOL :-P

Or even better! Have a Level Cap Quest for every 5 levels. Talk to an NPC, get a client order that is almost impossible to complete on your own. Talk to Matt again, complete the quest, level to 45, then do the process over again. To unlock 75 level cap you get to fight him!

[Rath-Kun]

Please god no, haha. I couldn't beat Matt as a Dragoon..

[Powder Keg]

Drip feed = bad, regardless of how gaming has changed. Most of you will have to wait and see to understand this, though.

What I do like is that if there's too much delay, you just don't buy anything and you can still play. Room access is what they're going to get everyone for though, and let's face it, who the hell is going to regularly play without access to their room/storage?

[Taitu]

I'm going to avoid quoting Hrith since doing so with a post that large will only be a giant mess. years ago video games were a cult form of entertainment. Your average person would perhaps own a console and 1 or 2 games for it. Beyond that the group of gamers that were willing to invest time and purchase a full library of games was incredibly niche. That being said most game companies were small and were more focused on creating a game that will sell to the end-user because simply getting that sale was competitive.

Today almost every home has a game console. Gaming has become mainstream and most people have at least a small collection of games or at least have made considerable contributions to the video game industries. Game companies have grown into large corporations led by executive rule. Fun fact about the executives is they don't care about the content of the game, they care about how much money the game will bring them. Even smaller independent game companies use larger name publishers to help distribute their game which sucks them into the same corporate hassles of the bigger name developers.

Now that games have become more common in the household the sale of the game while still an important source of income isn't the prime source. The most profitable thing now is the longevity of the game in question. So I know perhaps you were being rhetorical in asking why things are changing for the 'worse'; however, game companies are still out to make money. Their business model hasn't gotten worse; in fact, it has gotten better as this new model is making them more money. I'm sorry to say but the model isn't there to make you happy. As long as they have your money in their pocket that's all that matters to them.

[Rath-Kun]

Drip feed = bad, regardless of how gaming has changed. Most of you will have to wait and see to understand this, though.

What I do like is that if there's too much delay, you just don't buy anything and you can still play. Room access is what they're going to get everyone for though, and let's face it, who the hell is going to regularly play without access to their room/storage?

You can access your storage through multiple areas, in the lobby/quest area.

[Nurusanura]

Please god no, haha. I couldn't beat Matt as a Dragoon..

LMAO I beat the crap out of him as Monk. x3

I'm just glad to have experienced that game. lol As for this one, I hope it takes a hell of a lot more time to level up. I know PSO did but this game is a bit faster pace, so if anything, they should tone it down on how much exp the client orders give you.

[Rath-Kun]

I think its a fair amount. It feels like PSO2 takes the longest to level, unless you get an EXP booster.

You have to work your ass off in FFXI, thats one think I like about the PSO series is that you don't have to rely on others to get through things.

[AC9breaker]

I think it's retarded in that it's indicative of the content that will be available and also for the fact that it developers forcing the players to play a certain way as opposed to letting the players play how they wanna play.

[Powder Keg]

I'm going to avoid quoting Hrith since doing so with a post that large will only be a giant mess. years ago video games were a cult form of entertainment. Your average person would perhaps own a console and 1 or 2 games for it. Beyond that the group of gamers that were willing to invest time and purchase a full library of games was incredibly niche. That being said most game companies were small and were more focused on creating a game that will sell to the end-user because simply getting that sale was competitive.

Today almost every home has a game console. Gaming has become mainstream and most people have at least a small collection of games or at least have made considerable contributions to the video game industries. Game companies have grown into large corporations led by executive rule. Fun fact about the executives is they don't care about the content of the game, they care about how much money the game will bring them. Even smaller independent game companies use larger name publishers to help distribute their game which sucks them into the same corporate hassles of the bigger name developers.

Now that games have become more common in the household the sale of the game while still an important source of income isn't the prime source. The most profitable thing now is the longevity of the game in question. So I know perhaps you were being rhetorical in asking why things are changing for the 'worse'; however, game companies are still out to make money. Their business model hasn't gotten worse; in fact, it has gotten better as this new model is making them more money. I'm sorry to say but the model isn't there to make you happy. As long as they have your money in their pocket that's all that matters to them.
This could be killer (in a bad way) for a company in the long run, though.

Just to give an example, what the NHL has done since their lockout in 2004-2005 was attempt to cater to people who aren't interested in the game whatsoever, while blocking out the hardcore fan. The hardcore fans are the ones who will get season tickets, buy tons of merch, and go to charity events.

The casual fan? While a few may dump a chunk of cash, the others will stick around for a little while and disappear.

After the casuals are gone and you've lost interest in your smaller-than-ever-before hardcore fans, what's left?

[KyAniki]

Although I do wish it was a little higher, PSO has never been about what level you are. It's about how many red boxes you can find.

This is so true, it hurts.

[Taitu]

This could be killer (in a bad way) for a company in the long run, though.

Just to give an example, what the NHL has done since their lockout in 2004-2005 was attempt to cater to people who aren't interested in the game whatsoever, while blocking out the hardcore fan. The hardcore fans are the ones who will get season tickets, buy tons of merch, and go to charity events.

The casual fan? While a few may dump a chunk of cash, the others will stick around for a little while and disappear.

After the casuals are gone and you've lost interest in your smaller-than-ever-before hardcore fans, what's left?

While perhaps not the optimal case it is still more profitable for companies now than older models. Any extra income after the initial release is far better than no money after the initial release. Of course it's also this current model that is causing the issues of rushed products. The higher ups not only want to receive the return on their investment as soon as possible, but in fact prefer when the product is released in a borderline incomplete state because now they can charge you again for the rest of it!

I just in general hate when people blame the developers for a rushed or poor quality product. Understand that most developers want their game to be the best it can be. If they had that little bit of extra time they would happily include that level that would wow the entire audience or tediously find the perfect balance between all classes. Unfortunately they're constrained to what the higher ups want and will be forced to make hard decisions that will negatively effect the overall experience of the final game product. It's almost never the developer's fault when a game is rushed out.

[lKeima]

im gonna be a rare item hunter and sell it for a bajillion meseta! Thats how im gonna play. And make a rare item hunter guild! :3 with that aside, level cap wont matter to me as if im done leveling up, im gonna go grind for rare items or ALT/OPTION T people all day.

[Spellbinder]

Of course I played on the US servers, but so will I for PSO2 if the servers are not global =/ Sad to say, but not playing on the JP servers attributes to the point of view you have now.


They had promised the same for PSU. Still waiting.

I'm assuming you're referring to content. Again, I'm sorry that you played on US servers but I think everyone here can agree there was a significant difference between updates in PSU on the JP servers versus the US servers.

Playing on these servers, I'm fairly confident updates will be on a regular basis.


You must not have been in the PS loop long enough to remain so hopeful. If you have, you're too hopeful!

I've been here since Dreamcast V1, and the only version I haven't played (not including portables) is the card game version. I'm not hopeful, I just don't see my level as an indicator for how much fun I'm having, especially in a game like PSO.

[Rizen]

Personally, I think the level cap is fine. Too many people rush levels and never actually take time to enjoy the challenge or the content of the game. Level caps force people to slow down and explore other aspects of the game. It also gives a company time to balance out the game and get feedback from players before putting in other content. Too many times people complain about a game not being challenging or not interesting enough because they rush through it and try other content while at max level. It is even worse when high level content is too easy because the company never took time to actually balance out the lower end of the game in the first place.

Companies spend a great deal of time on putting in interesting content in a game, but nowadays gamers do not appreciate this and are just looking for their next level grind fix. They don't care about a challege. They don't even care of the game is balance. They just want the same mindless content that they can grind so they can get max level and not have to work any harder than that.

[Macman]

PSO was the last game to cap at 100.PSZ too. People still remember that... right? :cry:

[Powder Keg]

I also wanted to mention while I totally understand how PSO was more complete at release than PSU and I'm sure PSO2 will be, with PSO it took them a good 4 or so tries to totally balance everything well with their different versions. Still not a fan of drip-feeding regardless.

[Rath-Kun]

PSZ too. People still remember that... right? :cry:

Yeah, gonna be playin' it this week. ;D

I think PSO2 open beta was a crap ton better than PSU. Not two missions to play at.. that was fuckin' ridiculous.

[Selphea]

A level 40 cap to start with sounds about right for an F2P. PSU started with a level 60 cap, and it eventually dragged out to 180+ (the "+" includes endgame character advancement via GAS).

In the case of PSO2 though, a starting cap at 40 will work as an effective glass ceiling for F2P if they decided to add higher level areas/quests/matter boards as DLCs that are pay to unlock. It's a workable business model for franchises with a mature cult following, i.e. ones where most players are hardcore fans who were exposed to earlier installments of the series as children and are now old enough to draw an income.

Right now the game is looking more like otaku material than mainstream material, and they seem to be playing the nostalgia card pretty strongly, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Sega doing some hardcore milking of content to get the otaku dollars (or yen).

[Zorafim]

Drip feed = bad, regardless of how gaming has changed. Most of you will have to wait and see to understand this, though.

This isn't drip feed. This is incrementally released content. They aren't giving us content, because they don't have content. That's a huge difference compared to PSU, which had a bunch of content, and decided not to give it to us. This time, they aren't flipping a switch. This time, they're actively working to get us more stuff.

Alright, maybe that's not completely correct. Having higher level enemies, that's a switch. Having a higher level cap, that's a switch. Designing new rare weapons and areas, that is not a switch. If they really wanted to, they could have four levels of forest and caves, put one weapon design for each area and spread out PA disks through them, raise the level cap to 200, and call it a day. And I'm kind of glad they aren't doing that.

For arguments sake, let's say I'm working on a game, starting today. What would you rather I do? Get you a playable game as soon as possible, then give you more stuff to do in the game? Or wait until I'm done with the whole game, then give it to you? Keep in mind, the game will be finished at the same time both ways. So your choice is, play something now, and have a little bit to do each update, or wait until everything's available for you, so you can burn through it in one go.


It's a state of mind, you learn to live with it.

You too? I'm sorry to hear that. It's really hard to argue while angry. You keep on getting side tracked by things that don't matter.


Bad choice for a comparison, because Lv60 in WoW took a (very) long while to attain when it was first released, and WoW has actually had steady updates, unlike previous PS titles.

It's a worse comparison than even that. WoW doesn't even begin until you reach the level cap. You don't play to get levels, you play to get stuff. Even if you have stuff, you play to get more stuff. First levels, then gear, then more gear, then epic gear, and when you get tired of outpowering everything else, you get mounts, then pets, and achievements somewhere in between. The last expansion only gave us 5 levels, and it didn't matter because there was still stuff to do once you reached the cap.

And going full circle, that's why I don't care about a low level cap. It's because I've been taught not to care about levels. It just matters that little in the game. Out of the months or years you'll be playing WoW, only weeks of it will be spent leveling. The rest will be trying out everything else the game has to offer.

This is why I don't care about a lv40 cap. Because I don't care about reaching it. I want to go through story mode, and get involved with the characters. I want to hunt rares, and customize my character's looks and stats. I want to do every quest that's available to me, just to say that I had it all done. And I want to do any other vanity based action I can find, just because it's there. If I run out of those things to do, that's when I'll be disappointed. But I've been impressed with how the game's been run so far, and I won't start being negative until I see for myself that they aren't running it how well I hoped for.

[goldwing]

Well put zora well put

[Powder Keg]

This isn't drip feed. This is incrementally released content. They aren't giving us content, because they don't have content. That's a huge difference compared to PSU, which had a bunch of content, and decided not to give it to us. This time, they aren't flipping a switch. This time, they're actively working to get us more stuff.

Is this confirmed? I'm sure it will be safe to assume there will be tons of unused data for a long period of time and it will be drip-fed to us...they probably already have the stats mapped out for both player and enemy.


Alright, maybe that's not completely correct. Having higher level enemies, that's a switch. Having a higher level cap, that's a switch. Designing new rare weapons and areas, that is not a switch. If they really wanted to, they could have four levels of forest and caves, put one weapon design for each area and spread out PA disks through them, raise the level cap to 200, and call it a day. And I'm kind of glad they aren't doing that.
Agreed mostly, but things can be done differently. As far as the cap goes, I remember PSO being ridiculous to make it all the way to level 200, why not this? It was a joke to hit the level cap in PSU, and if not for GAS providing a reason to keep killing enemies (let's face it, leveling PAs became a boring chore) and I fear this may be the same.

There are other ways to implement new items, new areas and difficulties/quests/events being some of the easiest ways. Section IDs was what kept a lot of the same areas interesting because you could find new items in them. Only thing that stunk was that aspect being reliant on finding a player with those IDs. Why not have particular enemy drops updated? Or even have them drop more than one rare weapon? Or certain random conditions like weather or other random variables affect the drops? (it could still happen, hopefully!)


For arguments sake, let's say I'm working on a game, starting today. What would you rather I do? Get you a playable game as soon as possible, then give you more stuff to do in the game? Or wait until I'm done with the whole game, then give it to you? Keep in mind, the game will be finished at the same time both ways. So your choice is, play something now, and have a little bit to do each update, or wait until everything's available for you, so you can burn through it in one go.

The problem with having a bit to do each update will play out those new features quick. I'd much rather get the overwhelming feeling of "holy ham:burger: there are 50 million things I could do to find items, level up and such" instead of having only one or few new things to do each update.

Adding things = great and I have no problem with this. PSU did this (more on JP obviously) with PAs, areas and tons of items... but what I don't want to see is data you possess being unlocked whenever Sega pleases. If it's drip fed in that way, and you're someone who plays relatively often, the content gets played out and old much faster because it's literally the only thing you can do at the time that is "new".

I understand this is all speculation, but I'm sure you can't blame me for being a bit skeptical. :-P

[Dabian]

I'm not very versed in PS Vita and iOS/Android, or how, specifically those versions of PSO2 are going to receive updates. But this time around, the decision to skip console releases suddenly made this game more, for lack of a better description, more PC-esque?

As in, while we were let down by the PS2 (more so) PSU because updates as pointed out, aren't really "updates", this time around the client could be updated in true PC form, if at all that's something proprietary to PC :p New Content could very well be new content, as opposed to locked-on-disc content.

I'm not sure which direction Sakai and his crew will take, but this time around he has the freedom to choose. We'll have to see though. Since the obvious comparison is to PSU, I suspect what killed it for many wasn't so much the lack of, but rather the pacing.

That, coupled with the knowledge that most of "upcoming" content was disc-locked anyway, only added to the frustration. It felt as if the content updates were half-hearted.

I am curious though. How will be release EXP curve be like, considering the need to maximize content as well as AC EXP boosts. They might just dial back the whole thing and mock us as we grind grind grind. T.T

[moorebounce]

I'm sure it will change just as soon as people who reach lvl 40 start complaining about it.

[Fhin]

Personally, I think the level cap is fine. Too many people rush levels and never actually take time to enjoy the challenge or the content of the game. Level caps force people to slow down and explore other aspects of the game. It also gives a company time to balance out the game and get feedback from players before putting in other content. Too many times people complain about a game not being challenging or not interesting enough because they rush through it and try other content while at max level. It is even worse when high level content is too easy because the company never took time to actually balance out the lower end of the game in the first place.

Companies spend a great deal of time on putting in interesting content in a game, but nowadays gamers do not appreciate this and are just looking for their next level grind fix. They don't care about a challege. They don't even care of the game is balance. They just want the same mindless content that they can grind so they can get max level and not have to work any harder than that.

Nothing more to add for me. This it is. ^

[Arika]

I think it is too low, but well.. our opinion here won't make any different.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I think it is too low, but well.. our opinion here won't make any different.

Just thought I'd ask but what do you think would be an ok level?
Never played a beta for a MMO till now let alont a PS game so only experience final release..what was the starting levels for PSO/PSU?

They ever explain why they decided to go that low?

[Blackheart521]

They ever explain why they decided to go that low?

The basic reason I would assume (just a guess) is the fact that they are just matching the amount of content to the level cap that suits its usefulness to you, they don't want people plowing through a level 40 mission that is the hardest available at the time with level 80, 90 characters... and they don't want people to get so strong that any new content they release come 2-4 weeks would be useless to anybody over-leveled. Its really all about balance.

[ShadowDragon28]

Personally, I think the level cap is fine. Too many people rush levels and never actually take time to enjoy the challenge or the content of the game. Level caps force people to slow down and explore other aspects of the game. It also gives a company time to balance out the game and get feedback from players before putting in other content. Too many times people complain about a game not being challenging or not interesting enough because they rush through it and try other content while at max level. It is even worse when high level content is too easy because the company never took time to actually balance out the lower end of the game in the first place.

Companies spend a great deal of time on putting in interesting content in a game, but nowadays gamers do not appreciate this and are just looking for their next level grind fix. They don't care about a challege. They don't even care of the game is balance. They just want the same mindless content that they can grind so they can get max level and not have to work any harder than that.

QFT. 100% agreed. Dude we need to try to team up on PSO2 Open Beta...

[PSO Addict]

Let me begin by saying that I do indeed like turtles.

At first I was unimpressed by the seemly low level cap, but I feel I need to see how it plays out. I don't think it will be much of a concern for me as they will hopefully raise it soon after a large number of people begin to max out. I'll just try and beat the time trial mode if I get stuck at level 40. The level progression does seem slower than it did in PSO. I did enjoy the fact that I could never reach level 200 of PSO however...

[Pillan]

Level 40 (and any other cap) is fine as long as there is no more than a three week delay between me getting to the point that I no longer care about the game and the next update. Basically, as long as I remember the game exists when they announce the next update, they are doing it right.

[Ce'Nedra]

Personally, I think the level cap is fine. Too many people rush levels and never actually take time to enjoy the challenge or the content of the game. Level caps force people to slow down and explore other aspects of the game. It also gives a company time to balance out the game and get feedback from players before putting in other content. Too many times people complain about a game not being challenging or not interesting enough because they rush through it and try other content while at max level. It is even worse when high level content is too easy because the company never took time to actually balance out the lower end of the game in the first place.

Companies spend a great deal of time on putting in interesting content in a game, but nowadays gamers do not appreciate this and are just looking for their next level grind fix. They don't care about a challege. They don't even care of the game is balance. They just want the same mindless content that they can grind so they can get max level and not have to work any harder than that.

/thread

This man speaks the truth :O

[Sakarisei]

Lol, lv 40 is very low. If i could do 20 lvls in a week... i don't imagine lvling to 40 with hard mode in one month or month and half...

However, i would like to increase more lvls every month.

[Hrith]

Sad to say, but not playing on the JP servers attributes to the point of view you have now.
I think everyone here can agree there was a significant difference between updates in PSU on the JP servers versus the US servers.I know, and agree. I chose to stay on the US servers, because I'm an official moderator for SoA, it makes no sense that I should play on Japanese servers, they have their own team. Hence my immense desire that the servers be global.


I've been here since Dreamcast V1, and the only version I haven't played (not including portables) is the card game version. I'm not hopeful, I just don't see my level as an indicator for how much fun I'm having, especially in a game like PSO.I capped several chars in previous PS games and still had a lot of fun, but I know for a fact that it's one of the main reasons people quit the game.


Also I do not remember who said that and I'm too lazy to look for the right post to quote, but Lv40 is really low if I reached Lv20 in the CBT while simply completing client orders and matter board objectives (meaning Forest runs; when I first entered Volcanic Caverns I was Lv19) and in three days... So saying 'people who complain about the cap(s) are people who rush levels' is an erroneous statement.

As it has been said by many people, let's hope there are loads of things to do besides levelling up. I remember PSU v1 clearly, and there was not much to do besides levelling up (classes, characters or PAs). PSO2 does not have levels for characters and PA levels are found, not increased...

[keizeh]

It's funny how everyone saying it's too low assume content just magically creates itself. Even if they raise the cap, they STILL have to create the assets for the areas to match that level.
You kids are basically screaming "WORK HARDER! WHY ISN'T IT DONE YET? I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HOW MUCH WORK IT TAKES TO CREATE A GAME"
Add on top of that the only way to reach level cap in a few days is to spend all your time on the game. It took me a week to reach level cap because I have a life. I think most of the Japanese have one too. You guys should probably get one. I'm sure your parents would appreciate it.

[AC9breaker]

Whelp I dunno about you but thats how we do it in Capitalist America.

"Hey guy I said your pizza would be ready in 10 minutes, so to make that time line I only put the toppings you requested on half of the pizza"

"Hey Sir, I said the bird would be in up flight status by the end of the week, so to make that time line I totally neglected maintenance on the hydraulic and pneumatic systems"

Yeah, when we make deadlines we make sure the job can be done in the timeline we give them.
As the consumer we shouldn't have to know how long it takes to make a game when the developers are already giving us dates. Should I have to know how to make a pizza to enjoy eating it? Should I have to know what maintenance procedures need to be done in an aircraft to ride in one? It kills me that so many people choose to defend and stick up for Segas ineptitude and poor decision making.


the only way to reach level cap in a few days is to spend all your time on the game. It took me a week to reach level cap because I have a life.

Is this suppose to be ironic?

[Taitu]

Yeah, when we make deadlines we make sure the job can be done in the timeline we give them.

Hah.



As the consumer we shouldn't have to know how long it takes to make a game when the developers are already giving us dates.

Did I not already make a post about this? Stop blaming the developers for release schedules! They aren't the ones deciding these things.

[DemonMike]

Sounds about right to start with in my opinion. Double the available levels for each class with around double the content mission wise and they'll raise it with each addition. Sounds cool.

It's rather funny how people seem to forget the main attraction of the Phantasy Star series when they claim "Oh level cap is too low! People will max out quick and stop playing for a while! Not what they want!". Bullshit! What did you do in Closed Beta after you reached level 20 in one or all classes? You kept playing hunting for those rare weapons. Like you've done in many Phantasy Star's beforehand.

Also, I think it actually works out alright for them in a business sense too. You jump on the game, buy all your AC items that you planned to get each month and play the game. You supposedly max out very fast, stop playing the (supposedly!). Now, lets say that level's are the only appeal in this game to you and you stop playing and come back when new content and a higher level cap are introduced. You have to buy all your monhtly stuff again like the Shop, My Room, the new AC scratch items you want to find etc..

Either way, you know they've got you by the balls.

[Rauten]

People are being too quick to decide it's too little, we have absolutely no idea how the experience curve will ramp up past level 20, or if there'll be some extra content to keep us busy if/when we do reach the cap.

It can be too short, yes, but it can also be enough. We cannot know right now.

[DemonMike]

People are being too quick to decide it's too little, we have absolutely no idea how the experience curve will ramp up past level 20, or if there'll be some extra content to keep us busy if/when we do reach the cap.

It can be too short, yes, but it can also be enough. We cannot know right now.

I've seen the required experience total for level 100 that was in the Closed Beta data and heh.. shit's crazy. But obviously, we have no idea of the EXP yields Hard Mode will offer us.

[Quatre52]

I've seen the required experience total for level 100 that was in the Closed Beta data and heh.. shit's crazy. But obviously, we have no idea of the EXP yields Hard Mode will offer us.

This was changed after the alpha, and very well could change again before open beta.

[DemonMike]

This was changed after the alpha, and very well could change again before open beta.

Oh really? Either way, I can still see them making it incredibly high to make EXP boosters more appealing.

[Hrith]

It's rather funny how people seem to forget the main attraction of the Phantasy Star series when they claim "Oh level cap is too low! People will max out quick and stop playing for a while! Not what they want!". Bullshit! What did you do in Closed Beta after you reached level 20 in one or all classes? You kept playing hunting for those rare weapons. Like you've done in many Phantasy Star beforehand.No, we are not forgetting. Ceresa has made a very good post about it in this very topic.
We all know hunting rares is the main idea of PS games, but on Normal? >_>
Have you played PSU v1, do you remember it? We did not have rare items for like six months, when they first released a difficulty high enough to see some drop...

I do not think the people who agree Lv40 is too low (majority on the poll) believe for one second that the level cap sums up the content of the game...

[DemonMike]

No, we are not forgetting. Ceresa has made a very good post about it in this very topic.
We all know hunting rares is the main idea of PS games, but on Normal? >_>
Have you played PSU v1, do you remember it? We did not have rare items for like six months, when they first released a difficulty high enough to see some drop...

I do not think the people who agree Lv40 is too low (majority on the poll) believe for one second that the level cap sums up the content of the game...

You do realise that Hard mode has been confirmed right? You can't hide behind the 'normal' difficulty excuse considering that was a closed beta limitation. To be fair though, I did take major liberties with that post considering I saw a few pages of people bitching and skipped right to the end!

Luckily, I had decent enough foresight to realise Phantasy Star Universe was going to be a train wreck of a launch. Admittedly, I had only recently got into Phantasy Star Online when Universe was just around the corner from an English release but what was being said made me think "There's no way I'm paying monthly for that just yet".

And I think because of that, I didn't bother with the Universe series until Portable 2. I held a very negative opinion about Universe for quite a few years after seeing the outcry.

[Strider_M]

If anyone's playing this game JUST to level up, they've got nothing to lose in a sense.

When I played the closed beta, I've only been doing missions (trying to figure out the japanese in the Matter board and trying to hunt Rares). But the thing is I haven't bought anything using the Arks Cash (Well there was that one Scape doll thing but that was by accident).

Point is, as someone stated before this game is free to play. If they max out their level and that's all they care about, they can leave and play another game until the max level is raised. People won't have that crutch of paying a monthly fee just to start playing the game again.

This is what I liked about PSO v1. If I got tired of it or when a new game came out, I could just drop it for a while and then come back to PSO when I wanted without paying for it!

So that all being said- *looks* .... hold on....

*TACKLES A TEAL DEER*

I understand the Closed Beta cap was level 20, the Open Beta is going to be level 30 and when the game is released the cap is level 40.

If the cap is going to be raised every other week, then as Hrith said, this argument is moot.

*LETS THE TEAL DEER GO*

Also if you want to put the poll into a dichotomy (which would be "Level 40 is too low" & "I don't care about the level cap"), then the majority of people do not care about this inital level cap.

[Powder Keg]

^ A lot of people don't play just to level up, but if you're hunting items and you're not getting any, well, you're getting nothing. That can be rather demoralizing.

[Randomness]

No, we are not forgetting. Ceresa has made a very good post about it in this very topic.
We all know hunting rares is the main idea of PS games, but on Normal? >_>
Have you played PSU v1, do you remember it? We did not have rare items for like six months, when they first released a difficulty high enough to see some drop...

I do not think the people who agree Lv40 is too low (majority on the poll) believe for one second that the level cap sums up the content of the game...

Don't worry, we already had rare weapons in CB.

[Priest]

Don't worry, we already had rare weapons in CB.

I'm wondering if the CB drop rates will reflect OB. I did mostly rare hunting for 70 hours and never found anything higher than 4 stars. I was expecting at least a varista.

Honestly, even at level 20 I never found that cap to hinder my ability to have fun completing random events and rare hunting. Although I don't get bored easily, still playing PSO1 afterall.

[goldwing]

i really think after thinking this over for a bit that most of us will be rare hunting/getting our weps to perfection. and if your like me you will be to occupied with trying to figure out what dose what and why it dose this. lvl really isnt going to affect the game play for me tho namely because i cant play it 24/7 like most people. yea when i was younger jobless and really didnt have much else to do then it would be a diff story ill hit max lvl in a month tops and by then im sure the cap may or may not be raised either way ill find something better to do in the game.

[Vashyron]

Don't worry, we already had rare weapons in CB.

I wouldn't expect those to reappear so quick in the Open Beta. They all seemed to have lowered stats to be able to even be equipped and seemed mostly for show.
The "3rd Model of 2* Generic Weapons" surpassed the 7* Weapons stats already. (You could view them at the title counter.)

[Cayenne]

You kids are basically screaming "WORK HARDER! WHY ISN'T IT DONE YET? I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HOW MUCH WORK IT TAKES TO CREATE A GAME"
Are you making this up?

It took me a week to reach level cap because I have a life.
No, please do go on about this "a life" you have.

as Hrith said, this argument is moot.
This argument never existed until he posted. Before that it was a simple discussion about a simple topic.

[Hrith]

Don't worry, we already had rare weapons in CB.'We'? As in you played the CBT and I did not? >_>
7-star items do not qualify as 'rare', sorry. They'll be the plague of higher difficulties, as they were in previous PS games.

Please you all stop assuming people who think the level cap needs to be raised are not aware of the other aspects of the game, we are as much as anybody.

[Cayenne]

This thread is gonna be closed because of Hirth...

[Dabian]

I think the point about already having rares in CBT was within the understanding that we only had lvl 20 characters doing, what was the highest, lvl 17 monster content.

Rares, going by the PSP/PSP2:i model, also included non-15/16 star rare drops. Some had aesthetic value, some could be extended into best-in-slot. Some were tribute items, and others were the obligatory Japanese game must-includes.

Taking a week to level cap doesn't necessarily mean you have a life. It could (and I stress, could), also hint at incompetence? For example, those who get world first max levels in World of Warcraft expansions did so in mere hours of game time. You don't suppose they could spend the rest of the week, I dunno, having lives? And were the rest of us just plain bad?

No of course not. (I refuse to believe I suck at WoW. Hint: I do). The rate at which the level cap is reached also shouldn't be the only gauge of whether it's too low/high. I trust most of us here look at the level cap in the context of what we think will be the level of content to go alongside it, and formulate our opinions based on that.

[Stan64]

As long as the content is scaled to the level. It won't be much fun running around and killing everything with one attack.

The PSO-series often lack real challenges, the best challenging content was Challenge Mode in PSO. It would be nice if they added bosses that took strategy and many tries before anyone got it down, instead of learning a few patterns and zerging it down.

[Hrith]

This thread is gonna be closed because of Hrith...Or because of such useless, stupid comments. Contribute to the discussion or shut your trap. Learn to spell, too.

[darkante]

40 levels sounds low, but hopefully they balance that out.

[Macman]

Hey.

Quit gettin' mad at Internet forums.

[Cayenne]

Or because of such useless, stupid comments.
Oh you mean like these?

How utterly disappointing...

I thought SEGA were supposed to listen to the players this time? Evidently not.

Then how do you account for PSO EpI&II having nearly all content (including Lv200 cap) at the start and being more successful than games in which we were drip-fed?
Stop acting like you know what you're talking about when in fact you don't. There are members in this thread that already explained why your whiny post are wrong, you continue to open your mouth with such useless information, and you think you're high and mighty with that quote in your signature when in fact you're just a jerk.



Contribute to the discussion or shut your trap.
Contribute? Oh just like how you've been doing so well. How about you take your own advice for once, it might save you from looking dumb, Hirth.

Also you missed the entire point of the topic, have a nice day. :-)

[Powder Keg]

^ It's been a debate until you started crying that it wasn't. Contribute to the thread or hit the road.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

If it's balanced in term of difficulity and there much other stuff to do besides spamming missions to get EXP then I'd be ok with 40 just depends how low/high the exp payout is by default (not counting the AC EXP thing as I doubt ill do that)

My main objective wouldbe story mode since I'd like to know more about....in no rush to cap to 40....

[Silenttank]

I think it's way to early to talk about whether level 40 is gonna be enough. There's still a gap for change, who knows they might make the level cap 50 when release happens, as well as new items and areas, etc. From personal experience what can be added from CBT to final release can be a lot, I wouldn't be worrying about it too much. I'm sure we're gonna be busy with stuff to do both during and after we hit level cap.

[Taitu]

I think it's way to early to talk about whether level 40 is gonna be enough. There's still a gap for change, who knows they might make the level cap 50 when release happens, as well as new items and areas, etc. From personal experience what can be added from CBT to final release can be a lot, I wouldn't be worrying about it too much. I'm sure we're gonna be busy with stuff to do both during and after we hit level cap.

The level cap was 20 in CBT. 40 is the announced level for release and already a change from CBT. Of course that isn't saying I doubt they will add more content. I fully expect them to implement at least one more area between OBT and the actual release.

[Silenttank]

The level cap was 20 in CBT. 40 is the announced level for release and already a change from CBT. Of course that isn't saying I doubt they will add more content. I fully expect them to implement at least one more area between OBT and the actual release.

You never know, the community in japan might heavily suggest it and they might bump it up. Chances are low but we can hope, either way I'm happy with the way it is.

[Hrith]

The level cap was 20 in CBT. 40 is the announced level for release and already a change from CBT. Of course that isn't saying I doubt they will add more content. I fully expect them to implement at least one more area between OBT and the actual release.I also hope the skill trees and all weapon types will be available, but I sincerely doubt that... There aren't as many weapon types in PSO2 as in PSU, but I can see SEGA not releasing all weapon types (elements, for forces) immediately.

[Spellbinder]

The level cap was 20 in CBT. 40 is the announced level for release and already a change from CBT. Of course that isn't saying I doubt they will add more content. I fully expect them to implement at least one more area between OBT and the actual release.

Is this an expectation of new areas in addition to the new snow and desert areas?


I also hope the skill trees and all weapon types will be available, but I sincerely doubt that... There aren't as many weapon types in PSO2 as in PSU, but I can see SEGA not releasing all weapon types (elements, for forces) immediately.

Sakai has mentioned on several occasions that they will add in more weapon types as time goes on, so I wouldn't worry too much about weapon types. :)

[Zyrusticae]

Already voted in the poll, but really? Don't care.

Level cap means nothing. It does not indicate the depth or the quality of the content (seriously, how do these things relate to level in any way?), using previous games as a benchmark is meaningless when the game is already completely different from them in so many ways, and I don't even play these games exclusively for the sense of progression anyways - I play them because they let me be an uber-badass hunter newman who wields swords so large that she shouldn't realistically be able to swing them, killing monsters of such a level of strength and viciousness that no one in their right mind would willingly engage them in single combat.

Level cap doesn't tell you how many environments, enemy types, weapon types, weapons within those types, photon arts, techniques, client orders, event types, and/or costumes are in the game. If you think you can clairvoyantly tell everyone how any one of these things will be lacking just because the level cap is 40, don't. Stop now. Think about how that number actually relates to those things, and how they can very easily turn your preconceived notions of such on their ears.

So yeah, I remain eager for the game's release, level cap of 40 or otherwise. (TBH, I still had a LOT to squeeze out of the CB even with the low, low cap of 20, so, yeah. Excited.)

[Taitu]

Is this an expectation of new areas in addition to the new snow and desert areas?

Yes, they demonstrated these areas; however, Sakai never said anything about these being the only areas that would be available in the release of the game. They're very clearly planning to make Open Beta out to be another big event seeing as their plans include a level cap specifically for Open Beta. All the new inclusions which were previewed at the conference I see as additions specifically for Open Beta and content which will be added for the Release version of the game to go along with the level 40 cap is still in the air.

[Blackheart521]

Yes, they demonstrated these areas; however, Sakai never said anything about these being the only areas that would be available in the release of the game. They're very clearly planning to make Open Beta out to be another big event seeing as their plans include a level cap specifically for Open Beta. All the new inclusions which were previewed at the conference I see as additions specifically for Open Beta and content which will be added for the Release version of the game to go along with the level 40 cap is still in the air.

Well they actually stated that the "Desert" Area will be in Open Beta and the "Frozen Soil" Area will be in the official release, there was a robot-esque area that was only shown to people who attended but it is unknown if that will be put out on release or as an early update

[Nurusanura]

Already voted in the poll, but really? Don't care.

Level cap means nothing. It does not indicate the depth or the quality of the content (seriously, how do these things relate to level in any way?), using previous games as a benchmark is meaningless when the game is already completely different from them in so many ways, and I don't even play these games exclusively for the sense of progression anyways - I play them because they let me be an uber-badass hunter newman who wields swords so large that she shouldn't realistically be able to swing them, killing monsters of such a level of strength and viciousness that no one in their right mind would willingly engage them in single combat.

Level cap doesn't tell you how many environments, enemy types, weapon types, weapons within those types, photon arts, techniques, client orders, event types, and/or costumes are in the game. If you think you can clairvoyantly tell everyone how any one of these things will be lacking just because the level cap is 40, don't. Stop now. Think about how that number actually relates to those things, and how they can very easily turn your preconceived notions of such on their ears.

So yeah, I remain eager for the game's release, level cap of 40 or otherwise. (TBH, I still had a LOT to squeeze out of the CB even with the low, low cap of 20, so, yeah. Excited.)

Thank you for this! I thought 20 would be too low at first but i found enough content in the closed beta alone that would have lasted me a good amount of time before i'd have completed all of the content. If i had to compare to Tera's cbt5 which was capped at 38, i'd have to say that level cap doesnt matter. For a cap of 20, PSO2 had way more to offer. Plus it took a bit longer to level than it did in Tera. PSO2 is much more rich content-wise and there is more to come.

[BIG OLAF]

I suppose 40 really isn't too bad considering every character can just switch classes, so it's more like level 120. But, for the people that don't wish to have a Jack-of-all-Trades character, I still think it's (leveling) going to be 'over' a bit too fast.

[PhantasyStarMan]

40 is fine place to start if they intend on adding content regularly. It also depends on how long it take an average player to hit 40. In PSO I could hit 40 in a day, obviously this won't be the case for this game I hope.

[Ryo]

I like the idea of being able to switch from Hunter to Force to Ranger and redo the whole game all as one character. I'm hoping those of us that take that route will be rewarded by being able to become hybrid classes.

[Rauten]

I like the idea of being able to switch from Hunter to Force to Ranger and redo the whole game all as one character. I'm hoping those of us that take that route will be rewarded by being able to become hybrid classes.

I doubt hybrid classes would work like that, it'd reward playing as a single character, and considering SEGA is going to charge for extra char slots, they'd probably rather not make the game too focused on playing a single toon.

[Zorafim]

It's already strongly suggested that either we'll be able to use a secondary class in the full game, or we'll have more classes unlocked. I'm hoping for the former.

[PhantasyStarMan]

I don't see hybrid classes working with only 3 classes to pick from. It's too linear. It worked very well in a game like Final Fantasy XI because even at launch that game had 6 starting jobs, and at least 6 advanced jobs as your progressed. So with 12 (currently 20 now) jobs at the launch of the game, it made having a Main job and a sub job work well because it was so varied.

Being limited to 3 just won't work in the same capacity, despite them being completely different games.

[NoiseHERO]

They actually SAID there would be more classes and weapon in the future.

[BIG OLAF]

How can you say that when you don't even know the final exp values that will be given off creatures?

Well, you see, I have this keyboard in front of me. So, I typed it out with that and clicked 'Submit Reply' with my mouse.

That's how.

[Chik'Tikka]

Delta was probably just saying that exp requirements for actual lvl 120 will probably be a lot higher+^_^+
If PSO2 follows other F2P games i played, lvl 1-20 x 3 would ultimately equal between lvl 35-50 on 1 character+^_^+ but we don't know EXP requirements for each lvl yet+^_^+

[NoiseHERO]

I thought we DID...

Could've sworn dataminers or someone found the EXP needed to level..

I remember they said the closed beta, they multiplied the experience needed to level by 4 for the early levels. e_e

[PhantasyStarMan]

I hope they expand upon classes, and actually make tank, DPS, support, and healing oriented classes.

[BIG OLAF]

I hope they expand upon classes, and actually make tank, DPS, support, and healing oriented classes.

....nyyyy I don't know about that. I'd rather not have PSO2 set up in the "standard MMO fare", since one of the reasons it's so appealing is because it doesn't fall into that stereotype. If you want all that, play WoW, or TERA, or anything else.

[Hrith]

We've known about subclasses for a while (from Sakai himself).

There is a fourth class in the game data, but we do not know more than this.

[BIG OLAF]

It is just being an ass and you should come to expect that from people like it.

"It?" So I'm a 'thing', am I?

"People like 'it'", huh? What am I 'like?'

Also, to seriously refer to you last post, I'm just going by what I've seen in the Closed Beta, since that's all anyone has to speculate on at the moment.

[Peejay]

We've known about subclasses for a while (from Sakai himself).

There is a fourth class in the game data, but we do not know more than this.

Was there ever a fourth class? Why mess with perfection? Well, relative terms.

[PhantasyStarMan]

....nyyyy I don't know about that. I'd rather not have PSO2 set up in the "standard MMO fare", since one of the reasons it's so appealing is because it doesn't fall into that stereotype. If you want all that, play WoW, or TERA, or anything else.

It's a standard not a stereotype. The game mechanics by itself are completely different then every other MMO.

[LokinModar]

Was there ever a fourth class? Why mess with perfection? Well, relative terms.

I read about the 4th race,The Dumans, not a class... Maybe the guy made a mistake.

[LokinModar]

I thought we DID...

Could've sworn dataminers or someone found the EXP needed to level..

I remember they said the closed beta, they multiplied the experience needed to level by 4 for the early levels. e_e

Actually they got the EXP/Stat tables already... Open at ur own risk: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9259868/pso2_closed_beta/modified_stats.txt

[Rath-Kun]

I want that Duman

Actually, after looking at the stats. Noty. You barely get more attack for a huge cut in defense.

[LokinModar]

I want that Duman

Actually, after looking at the stats. Noty. You barely get more attack for a huge cut in defense.

Technically that is what dumans are for... Low Def, but more ATP and MST...

Ah, and i take no credit for the stats file... Someone else from other forum did it...

[Rath-Kun]

Sacrificing 32 S-DEF for 9 S-ATK barely seems worth it. Comparing HUdewm to HUmar.

[NoiseHERO]

Actually they got the EXP/Stat tables already... Open at ur own risk: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9259868/pso2_closed_beta/modified_stats.txt

YEAH this is what I was talking about, couldn't find it. @_@

[Gardios]

The CBT EXP table shouldn't matter - iirc it has been changed from the Alpha, too. Not to mention that we don't know how much EXP monsters and quests give.

[NoiseHERO]

The CBT EXP table shouldn't matter - iirc it has been changed from the Alpha, too. Not to mention that we don't know how much EXP monsters and quests give.

Well I was bringing it up for people whining about "WE DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW MUCH EXP WE NEED TO LEVEL"

But as well that's another thing, I doubt it'd change from the beta, but we don't know if they'll add more EXP needed to level. (But I DOUBT they'd lower it if they want to sell EXP packs.)

The EXP rates we have so far isn't bad, but at the same time you CAN just get lvl 20 in a day, if you play like you have no soul... which is EVERYONE.

But that other 20 levels, and if levels are really even all that important compared to the general flow of the game? Who knows.

[Zorafim]

but at the same time you CAN just get lvl 20 in a day, if you play like you have no soul... which is EVERYONE.

Hey. I don't play like I have no soul.

I WILL when the game comes out, but not right now!

[PSO Addict]

Just another occasion where I have to agree with Mr. Zorafim.

[BIG OLAF]

It's a standard not a stereotype. The game mechanics by itself are completely different then every other MMO.

Okay, well it's a "standard" that PSO2 needs not follow. PSO, PSU, and PSP2/i did fine without the same old 'classes' that every other MMO has, and so will PSO2. Some games go against the grain, and it's refreshing. Phantasy Star isn't like other online games in that regard, and it shouldn't be.

[Hrith]

I read about the 4th race,The Dumans, not a class... Maybe the guy made a mistake.Nope :P
We know a bit more about dewmans since we know their race modifiers. Just because something is in the game data does not mean it's ever going to be released (Red Ring, anyone?).

All the data I can find is in my online spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmvqJrg1h2rXdHBRc1FrVHJKcE5PSkVBclNGV2xJU 2c#gid=1). Not all the information in there is verified, whether it was mined from the game or stolen from Japanese wiki sites, and it is not mine, I am just putting it somewhere until there is a better place to put it.

[NoiseHERO]

I know you all hate dumans, because them being there ruins gameplay for you sooo much and their concept came from PSU and sounds like it was written by a 14 year old boy who was creating some kind of mary sue character, so that makes them soooo dumb.

Hell, I hate em too.

But don't get hopeful on them staying in the game's data and never being released, your argument works both ways, but I know which side you're rooting for!

[Peejay]

I know you all hate dumans, because them being there ruins gameplay for you sooo much and their concept came from PSU and sounds like it was written by a 14 year old boy who was creating some kind of mary sue character, so that makes them soooo dumb.

Hell, I hate em too.

But don't get hopeful on them staying in the game's data and never being released, your argument works both ways, but I know which side you're rooting for!

I have no clue what the hell you're trying to say.

So far, it'd make sense to have that or Beasts, apparently, since we have 3 races, but not one that mains in S-ATK. Humans have been the balance in every game. So what's going to be the melee powerhouse?

Even then, from the looks of it, the MYSTERY CLASS is going to be kind of screwed since for 9 more attack, you sacrifice something like 32 defense? Meaning... You better know how to DOOOOOOOOOOOODGE.

[NoiseHERO]

I have no clue what the hell you're trying to say.

So far, it'd make sense to have that or Beasts, apparently, since we have 3 races, but not one that mains in S-ATK. Humans have been the balance in every game. So what's going to be the melee powerhouse?

Even then, from the looks of it, the MYSTERY CLASS is going to be kind of screwed since for 9 more attack, you sacrifice something like 32 defense? Meaning... You better know how to DOOOOOOOOOOOODGE.

That's because you're slow!

[Gardios]

We'll most likely get them later on because an additional race is easy money for relatively little work.

[LokinModar]

We'll most likely get them later on because an additional race is easy money for relatively little work.

If they release the Dumans later, we get them as a new char in the same ship and the problem is solved. We give them an already powerful mag and good weapons/armour.... problem solved!

[Saotome Kaneda]

We give them an already powerful mag
Mags are locked to the character slot.