Connection between Wren from PSIII and PSIV?

[Valinne]

Spoilers, of course.

I can see that the classic section has been in decline, but maybe other people have been pondering the original series lately as I have been.

Is there a connection between Wren from PSIII and PSIV? Putting aside all the PSIII hate and whether it's even canon or not, is there anything to hint at both of them being the same person, or is it just another Wren combat android model?

I tried looking up and reading whatever I could, such as the translated compendium, but it didn't shed much light on this subject, which to me, was one of the biggest unexplained mysteries filling a gap between III and IV.

Could there have been a mass production of Wren models before Alisa III escaped Parma, and one of them was in charge of Zelan? It does seem like Wren is technologically more basic than Demi. He supposedly doesn't have emotions either.

Did this Wren come from one of the crashed Parmanian ships that landed on or near Motavia?

The only thing the compendium hints at was that Orakia and Laia were the Parm resistance leaders and escaped on the Alisa III. Afterwards, the surviving Mother Brain resistance members managed to restore minimal function to Zelan and Kuran. If Orakia built all the Wren models, perhaps he left one behind to man the satellites if they could get them back in operation after Alisa III left. Or more likely, one was left behind by accident and the resistance put it to that task anyway.

That seems to make a little sense to me, but perhaps there's evidence I'm not seeing that both Wrens are the same person?

Does anyone know anything more on this subject, or in fact, PSIII's connections to the rest of the series at all? I know once I finish PSU and PSP1/2, I'll be poking and prodding at the controversial subject of how they're ALL connected.

[Dragwind]

Potential spoiler:

[spoiler-box]I've thought about this as well, but after playing through PSIII I have a feeling that there were indeed, many "Wren-type" models made. However, I have read a theory that states it could be the same Wren, but for some reason I doubt it.[/spoiler-box]

[Valinne]

Orakia is credited in PSIII as creating an army of robots, and Wren introduces himself as part of a combat cyborg series, however...

Wren in PSIV doesn't seem to be surprised at the events regarding Dark Force, and he seems rather knowledgeable about all of the events that occur, although this could be due to his lack of emotion and programming.

[Omega-z]

There the same going off the Complete Franchise Timeline I'm doing (which is very long). Even tho there is no factual proof other then theories that Fan's have and the bit's and piece's that can lead to such an idea.

[Valinne]

Could you elaborate on what connects them in your timeline? I'm very interested in the connections between PSIII and the rest of the series.

I'm starting to agree with Dragwind, and after seeing PSU's story, I'm thinking that Wren and Lou are quite similar in their mass production.

I'd love to see more Mieu in the series, as a reference, cameo, anything...

[Ceresa]

JP names

PS3: シーレンTYPE386 (Shiren)
PS4: フォーレン (Forren)

Of course there were some very crazy theories back in the day that treated the English versions as their own continuity due to the date changes and ignored all JP canon, but...

[Valinne]

Oh, that's interesting...That kills the theory they're the same, but it's still fun to think about them being connected through their creator, Orakio. I wouldn't mind a game or series based off the Orakian/Layan war.

Is Forren and Fulyen Curtz a coincidence, or was that a deliberate reference?

[Omega-z]

Well that's like saying Noah in PSI is different to Lutz through out the rest of the series but we know he's the same guy and he had different JP names too. It's the same with the Planet's names in each game too. What you need to do is follow the story not the names. and even then it could be explain away why the difference too.

[Zorafim]

If I'm not mistake, PSIII actually takes place a few years after PSIV, meaning that Wren would have to do stuff in PSIV, then travel to a ship that's 1000 years away in 20 years, then do stuff there. Here's what I remember happening, from what background information I've found (please don't ask me to cite my sources. It's been far too long).

Wren series androids or automated production line created shortly before Mother Brain's destruction, allowing it to do their work through the great collapse. Shiren would have to be created before Mother Brain's death, so that he can be included in PSIII's ship (Alisa III, was it?), while Forren would have to start working in his satellite before the systems went haywire. 1000 years happen, twin Dark Forces attack, they both save their respective days.

So, short answer, they're different Wrens, they're similarly produced, they're roughly the same age.

Well that's like saying Noah in PSI is different to Lutz through out the rest of the series but we know he's the same guy and he had different JP names too. It's the same with the Planet's names in each game too. What you need to do is follow the story not the names. and even then it could be explain away why the difference too.

There's a difference between original source. English translations are always different because they're translations of a Japanese source. I'm fairly sure the Japanese versions don't have this problem.

Is Forren and Fulyen Curtz a coincidence, or was that a deliberate reference?

Deliberate, just like the naming of the planets. There are a ton of easter eggs in PSU to the original series. Alot of the characters are based around classic characters, and Fulyen is one of them.

[Omega-z]

Actually the English version put's PSIII a little after PSII not PSIV and the JP put's it a 1,ooo yrs later the same time as PSIV. The problem is the Orakia built the JP (Shiren) or Siren series after Palma's demise. Nether one is incorrect just classified differently. And top of that it doesn't explain how the two world ship got where they are in PSIV, so loop holes to be filled. The only way one could say they aren't is if the some of the Earthmen ( since there only other people to have that tech) escaped Noah and built Wren later on Zelan which could be possible but it's also possible they could of re-built him too form the crash too.

Shiren (Wren wasn't made yet) series androids or automated production line created shortly before Mother Brain's destruction, allowing it to do their work through the great collapse. If this is true Mother brain would not have enough time to be able to load up 400 world ship and send others to other places a couple of day's before the end. And even if Siren was used by Orakia to make the other's; Wren was type # 386 so a Sub-Cast like Lu # 281 from PSU. It could be possible that # 386 broke away from the other's (like Magashi) and hind in a Cave. While doing so rename himself Wren. Going off Sean's Ending could of crash landed on Motavia (like in PSU with guardian's colony fell on Parum and like Lu bot # 281 Survived the crash). Then got repaired or rebuilt and put to work on Zelan, then Wren built Demi to help with work. Even Source material can have mistakes and later fix'd with later source material.

[Valinne]

Deliberate, just like the naming of the planets. There are a ton of easter eggs in PSU to the original series. Alot of the characters are based around classic characters, and Fulyen is one of them.

Ah, I've been noticing something similar, like the relationship between Karen and Mirei, Tylor and the Landeel, Rutsu, and some other things here and there.

Just want to clarify really quick, Mieu wasn't mass produced, correct? It seemed as if she was a lone, advanced model.
Edit: Whoops, almost forgot about that broken one in the desert.

I wonder how popular the original series is compared to the PSU and PSO series now. Will they ever make another turn based game? That might be a question for another time and another topic...

[Dragwind]

Ah, I've been noticing something similar, like the relationship between Karen and Mirei, Tylor and the Landeel, Rutsu, and some other things here and there.

Just want to clarify really quick, Mieu wasn't mass produced, correct? It seemed as if she was a lone, advanced model.
Edit: Whoops, almost forgot about that broken one in the desert.

I wonder how popular the original series is compared to the PSU and PSO series now. Will they ever make another turn based game? That might be a question for another time and another topic...

Indeed, PSU actually had a lot of classic PS game references that many people didn't seem to notice (probably because the classic franchise didn't gain as much of a popular following due to the general popularity of video games back then, compared to the game industry after PSO).

I don't remember any other mentions or models of Mieu besides that seemingly creepy copy in the desert. I find this unfortunate, because I thought Mieu was a pretty cool character... for her silence, loyalty, and overall awesome combat prowess.

At this point though, it seems more and more believable that the two Wrens are different to me.

[Anna_Wren]

The Wren Series is mass produced with (Forren) Wren ps4 being the most advanced AI.

Wren ps3 is the most advaned partswise and even has tech abilities.

All Wrens are made to be both combat and support models and share many Traits.


Also note that 'Ren'volt Magashi is also an Homage to the mass produced Wren.
Lou is a clear reference to Mieu.

In any event, don't forget that Orachio and Rolf were classmates and that Wren ps4 was created shortly after Motherbrain was destroyed to oversee the entire planetary ecosystem. As such, the Wren was already a common android and I would imagine that Orachio was both an Agent and an engineer to have created a robot army to help suppress DF.

[firefiore]

In truth, they are different models and types. PS3 Wren was a true combat cyborg, where PS4 Wren was more of a battle android. PS3 Wren could use techniques, if I recall and PS4 Wren could not, but did use weapon systems.

[Omega-z]

Well, Wren is the soul connection from III to IV, form one of the time lines in III. Since there are mistakes in the Original JP game Genie Pig for PSIII, commented by the Producer that they made mistake's in it. Reason why for all the differences in III.

[firefiore]

Actually, Shirren was the one from PSIII and Forren was the one from PSIV. I think they dumbed down the names a bit.

[Omega-z]

Shirren - is the Battle Cast that Wren was model after during the War. In the Original JP version of III it had been mess up with part's of it's story and later they tried to fix it as best as the could with later version's. But Sega goofed up by forgetting to add in his name and leaving it Shirren since he was a Copy of the Original Shirren and actually TYPE #386. In one version it has only #386 and in the Original JP version Wren call him self that in-game and not Shirren. And if you take it into the count that the Original US version of III calls him Wren and not Shirren which was only 1-2 month/s behind the JP one. With the Producer saying there were mistakes and some they couldn't fix. The time period's listed in both, Wren's knowledge of III in IV. And how & why the Differences in Wren's bodies is pretty easy to follow (Technically Barrier is a Tech in IV).

One thing you also realize is that Shirren was built by Orakio along with Miun with a soul purpose to be generals for the Orakian & Layan War. This is year's (5-10yrs.) after Exodus of Palma. And it's not 1K years but 100yrs. form Rhys since it was another mistake in the coding which they tried to fix in the US version. So taking this here, there would be no way for the people of Motavia to have that Tech unless that World ship in Orbit around the planet was Alisa III and Crashed on the Planet. Then the Motavia's had the chance to rebuild & re-purposed him in the same amount of time in PSIV using the Tech (the best they could) form Alisa III's rubble (this was also done with one of the Lou copy bot's in PSU Ep.3). Oh, Sean's Time line make's this possible in PSIII.

Another reason is that Wren built Demi and not the Motavian's since they couldn't do it from scratch. And Wren was the only one who had that knowledge (he's also the one who fixed Mieu in PSIII).

I could go on and on. But I think you can see where I'am getting at with this. And the Best thing is One could finally connect the full series together which is another Plus.:) Thoughts :rappy:

Updated: Anna_Wren - them being classmates was to establish a time point where Orakio came from, even tho he was an engineer didn't built anyone until after the Palma's demise. Wren was never built before MB demise since there's proof that Alisa III leaving before MB and Palma being destroyed. That mean's Palma & MB had time to build the world ship's before the end and giving MB and the Earthmen ample time to sneak in Falz's on each ship. And this was during Rolf's quest and during his Jailed time before his Escape form the satellite, almost 2 yrs. worth according to PSIV. And according to Wren himself in PSIV he said that the Motavian's didn't purpose him until about half a millennium after Palma's demise, shortly after? unless you think being on a ship for about 500 yrs is being short.

In light PSIII is a filer story of what happen's to some of that last 10% of Palman's after the demise of there planet, for the next 500 year's or 5 (3 starting from Rhys) generations. Between the event's of PSII & PSIV which is only 1,ooo yrs. apart.