Psu is the example why pso2 should not be on 360.

[TimelessDbz]

I only say that because ever since that whole re skin thing started it killed a lot of the population and i THINK it was because Microsoft does not allow micro transactions . So what ( I ) learn is do not let pso2 fall the same way psu did. If it should come to a console I would ps3 only because it does a better job doing mmos and letting micro transactions happen (DC UNIVERSER ONLINE).

[DragonXIII]

Microsoft is allowing Guild Wars 2 onto 360 and that has micro transactions, I know that much. And maybe they're kicking PSU to make room for a console version of pso2 http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?414770 "There is more news yet to come for Phantasy Star, and there will be much to be excited about in the coming weeks and months." That part of the post keeps my hopes up for something.

[TimelessDbz]

That 's cool there letting that but would it not make more since to release on ps3 because of the ps vita cross play . Then there is that feature where you play the game on the vita and then go home and continue it on the ps3. I just do not see pso2 surviving on 360.

[DragonXIII]

I'm a 360 person, but I can agree with you. The fact its coming to vita shows it has a better chance of coming to ps3 before any other console. But I can only hope it comes to 360. If not, i've been on the edge of getting a ps3 and pso2 is a game big enough to be that final push haha.

[TimelessDbz]

if it does its worth it anyways buy ps plus it will pay off more then xbl would ever do you.

[Chik'Tikka]

hmm, just fought someone with your name Dragovian on SC5 not long ago+^_^+ anyway, rumors of Guild Wars coming to Xbox has been around for a very very long time now+^_^+
also, Sony will be the first to get PSO2 if it's released on console i think, PSU was on PS2 as well, but i highly doubt that they'd release it on the PS3, if i was Sega trying to make a game to make a profit from for the next 5-10 years, i wouldn't port it to the dying consoles of today, I'd wait a couple years for PS4 (which is rumored to use a x86 cpu, with a custom AMD GPU, which would make a port very easy compared to PS3's proprietary hardware) also, M$ doesn't allow cross play between XBL and the rest of the internet, i think someone tried hacking xbl with a PC version of FF-XI, but that's just what i heard+^_^+
Absolute E3 shocker for me this year was a lack of next-gen console reveals!!!

[Peejay]

It comes down to how the networks are formed, really.

There's a slight chance, maybe, that Microsoft could handle PSO2's update system, because of how they drill each and every update to pass onto their systems. I don't see it working.

[Lostbob117]

Also it's harder to ip boot and all when gameguard is there.

[Ilikelamp7]

You must be fuckin' high to even think about PSO2 appearing on 360. Let alone playing it.

[Sinue_v2]

There's a slight chance, maybe, that Microsoft could handle PSO2's update system, because of how they drill each and every update to pass onto their systems. I don't see it working.

I still contend that the major problem that PSU had regarding Microsoft's network was that they were trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. They developed PSU as a PS2/PC game first and foremost, with the 360 version coming into development as an afterthought. So when they came up with their update schedules, they didn't take into account Microsoft's authentication and therein ran into problems trying to force the freedom they have on other platforms into MS's restrictions.

A better, and more efficient method, would have been to do away with bi-weekly updates and instead consolidate them into quarterly updates with a lead time of at least one quarter - providing plenty of time for prep, testing, authentication, and implementation. As it was, you had Sega of America fighting for content updates from Sonic Team in Japan who wanted total control over the show, then trying to rush them into place on a more restrictive system to keep ST's schedule. And it should be pointed out that even on the PC/PS2 versions which didn't require MS's authorization, updates were frequently misapplied, glitchy, and their game/billing servers were often unstable and error prone... especially leading into events. Hell, remember the MAG billing error issue which locked nearly a third of their PS2/PC player base out of the game for nearly the entirety of the event - forcing them to extend it. For whatever troubles Sega might have had in dealing with MS, the Xbox 360 servers were a HELL of a lot more stable and secure than the PS2/PC servers were.

At any rate, I don't see how micro-transactions for PSO2 would constitute a substantial hurdle to development on that console. After all, every time I go to browse for new add-on, I'm deluged with a string a mile long of single songs sold as microtrasactions for the three dozen or so "Rock Band" type games out there. It's to the point where (imo), it's a serious clutter problem and needs to be addressed. Lots of similar examples from various fighting games, racing games, bioware RPGs, etc. Live is proliferated with microtransactions for menial single-item/single-mission bullshit. Why, then, is it such a barrier for Sega?


if i was Sega trying to make a game to make a profit from for the next 5-10 years, i wouldn't port it to the dying consoles of today, I'd wait a couple years for PS4 (which is rumored to use a x86 cpu, with a custom AMD GPU, which would make a port very easy compared to PS3's proprietary hardware)

That's a valid point, but Sega may also be counting on the fact that it usually takes a few years after a new generation of hardware comes out for it to start outselling the older hardware. There's also the issue of backwards compatibility in (at least) the initial years of a new console's life where it bolsters the lack of a software library with previous generation titles. It doesn't bode well for the long-term life of the product, but they may not care since the vast majority of their profits are going to come from the first 2 years anyhow, and there's nothing preventing them from releasing expansions specifically for new hardware.

Graphics capabilities of the new generation of hardware are a moot point at this stage of development. They're not going to totally revamp the graphics engine of PSO2 in order to take advantage of next generation hardware, so the graphics as they are now are pretty much what they are always going to be. And at this point, with those PC specs, there is no reason why the 360 or PS3 couldn't handle PSO2 with ease.

[joefro]

The only thing stopping PSO 2 from being on Xbox 360 is Sega. As was stated by Sinue_v2 before me, many games already have micro-transactions in them. Mass Effect 3 comes to mind. In fact, I think that Mass Effect 3 single handily proves that PSO 2 would work on 360. Now, this is just me speculating, but I believe that this is probably why Mass Effect 3 works. EA and BioWare release free DLC packs for ME3. Microsoft usually doesn't allow free DLC, however ME3 has lots of micro-transaction items available. Microsoft is definitely getting a cut of those micro-transactions, so they continue to allow the free DLC. People are happy about not having to pay for DLC and EA/BioWare/Microsoft love the free money from the micro-transactions. It's a win-win situation. It should be noted that the ME3 micro-transaction items are not required to play the game, at all. Just as the way that PSO 2's micro-transactions will not affect gameplay or progression.

These are my personal beliefs as to why PSO 2 is not announced for Xbox 360:

Sega doesn't want to pay to patch its game. Microsoft charges developers to patch their games. I believe its around twenty thousand dollars per patch. This really shouldn't be a problem for Sega, if the game was successful and had a lot of people playing and purchasing items.

I also think that Sega doesn't want to hire a proper translator for the game. This is purely speculation on my part, but it seems like Sega just doesn't want to pony up the money for a proper translation team. (Looking at you Neddle Cannoc)

Another reason is distribution. The limit for Xbox Live Arcade games is 2GBs. A full fledged game such as PSO 2 would definitely be a bigger download than that. They can't exactly just send copies of the game to stores and say that they're free. I guess they could work out a deal with Microsoft to release the game on Games on Demand on initial release. This is probably not the biggest hurdle of getting the game on Xbox 360, but I think that it is definitely of consideration to Sega.

My final reason for Sega not brining PSO 2 to Xbox 360 is the install base. Even at its prime, PSU never had that many subscribers. I think that a part of Sega knows that even if they took the time to do PSO 2 justice on the 360, not many people would have faith in them to deliver a quality experience.

I really want Sega to bring this game to North America and Europe and I want them to bring it to all consoles and PC. It can work. Sega of America just has to give a damn, and Sega Japan has to realize that not just Japan wants their games.

[Sinue_v2]

Sega doesn't want to pay to patch its game. Microsoft charges developers to patch their games. I believe its around twenty thousand dollars per patch. This really shouldn't be a problem for Sega, if the game was successful and had a lot of people playing and purchasing items.

I think that figure is bunk. MS charging $20,000 to patch a game? That seems absurdly excessive, and the only source I could ever find for that figure was Tim Schaffer when he was trying to advertise (i.e. sell) his Kickstarter project. Not to necessarily say he's lying, but he's probably fudging the figures to provide the most extreme example - such as adding in all the costs you'd normally spend anyhow to patch a game regardless of the platform... such as wages paid, operating costs, etc. Also, does that represent a single patch or is a cumulative total of several updates to "Patch" the game since MS doesn't want broken and exploitable titles on their network.

[Polly]

I believe PSU being developed for the PS2 is what severely hampered that game. The limitations shine all over, even the 360 and PC versions of the game. Seeing that the 360 isn't and never was hot shit in Japan, and the PC market wasn't exactly booming at the time either, the PS2 seems to have been the lead platform for that project and its memory and graphical limitations, among everything else, held that entire game back in my opinion.

Developing PSO2 for the PC gives them a lot more options and control over their game, plain and simple.

[May0]

The path of least resistance...

Sega has two options with the Microsoft platform. As previously mentioned they could patch the game out of their own pocket while other platforms don't require such stringent update policies, and take it on the face to save face with their customers. Conversely they could charge customers micro transactions for every incremental patch and put the cost of patching the game on the consumers. They'll irk the more savvy consumers and turn away the casual ones. Either way they're losing money

If I were a sega exec I wouldn't be warm to either of the aforementioned options. I'd just as soon go the Team Fortress 2 route and release the game and never update it . Unlike TF2 however such a model wouldn't quite work with PSO2's cash shop integration and I'd wager people would just as soon download it on their PCs/PS3s than bother mucking about in a stagnant world.

If there's no incentive for Sega to publish the game on xbox live they won't. Even with their deep pockets (sic) shelling out money for every single patch/update/new feature would be an unnecessary tax when when there are two perfectly capable alternative platforms (not counting the vita and Iphone junk) that wont charge them to update their game.

There's a whole topic worth of problems with xbox live but I'll save that for another thread.

[Chik'Tikka]

The path of least resistance...

Sega has two options with the Microsoft platform. As previously mentioned they could patch the game out of their own pocket while other platforms don't require such stringent update policies, and take it on the face to save face with their customers. Conversely they could charge customers micro transactions for every incremental patch and put the cost of patching the game on the consumers. They'll irk the more savvy consumers and turn away the casual ones. Either way they're losing money

If I were a sega exec I wouldn't be warm to either of the aforementioned options. I'd just as soon go the Team Fortress 2 route and release the game and never update it . Unlike TF2 however such a model wouldn't quite work with PSO2's cash shop integration and I'd wager people would just as soon download it on their PCs/PS3s than bother mucking about in a stagnant world.

If there's no incentive for Sega to publish the game on xbox live they won't. Even with their deep pockets (sic) shelling out money for every single patch/update/new feature would be an unnecessary tax when when there are two perfectly capable alternative platforms (not counting the vita and Iphone junk) that wont charge them to update their game.

There's a whole topic worth of problems with xbox live but I'll save that for another thread.

not to mention every single game on Xbox, if it has online capabilities, is only allowed to connect to Xbox versions of the game, which if PSO2 were to release on Xbox, would only serve to segregate the community. and don't bring up FF-XI, Square made a statement when it came to deciding if FF-XIV would release on xbox that "back then (with FF-XI), the contracts with M$ were a bit more vague, the current contracts would not allow cross platform connections, which we want" the new contracts specify that for the entire time a cross platform game runs on Xbl, then all versions of the game on every platform must meet or exceed M$ Xbl security to stay active on Xbl (gameguard would not cut it there)+^_^+ i doubt Sega would do what they did with PSU, especially when they are trying to cross connect PSVita and Smartphone versions of PSO2+^_^+ wish i could post the square quote, but i found it when they first announced FF-XIV back when and i was looking to see if it would land on Xbox

[Akaimizu]

Many arguments are started by people who are clearly misinformed about Xbox Live's service.

Ok. This could all be simply summed up by the fact that a Free-to-Play model with microtransactions (exactly as you would imagine them) already exists on Xbox Live. Ever heard of a 3rd party game called Crimson Alliance? I'm sure a good number of us on 360 has played it. It's released as a Free-to-play model with more stuff available as microtransactions.

It isn't bad.

However, the one issue of a fragmented group is the best reason I've seen for not having it on 360. Only if they could allow cross-platform play would it work. Not so much because of the PC. We all know that they do indeed allow cross-platform 360/PC play. However, that is usually *only* if the other platform is the PC. But now the Vita is on-board, I don't see it happening.

[Nitro Vordex]

I thought that the Vita and PC were going to be separate, however. So if they do bring it to 360, they wouldn't have to worry about connecting to the Sony servers.

[Sinue_v2]

not to mention every single game on Xbox, if it has online capabilities, is only allowed to connect to Xbox versions of the game

Not necessarily, since FFXI allows cross-platform play. Whether or not Microsoft will allow that to happen again, especially with a company as flaky and (honestly) marginal as Sega in today's game market... I can't say. Was it Microsoft courting Square to get Final Fantasy titles on their system, or was it Square seeking a new market and having the clout to dictate terms to Microsoft? Probably a bit of both, but either way, Sega doesn't have the reputation or importance in the game market that Square had earlier in the generation. Microsoft hasn't given much of a shit about Sega since the Dreamcast died and they saw the opportunity to get some JP developer support back in the day when you needed JP developer support.

Still, even beyond all that, this may be changing over the next few years as Microsoft introduces their smart-glass peripheral (to provide typing/keyboard support to Xbox) and opens their network up to Windows 8 PC gamers.

Link (http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/15/microsoft-shows-off-xbox-live-on-windows-8-video/)


However, the one issue of a fragmented group is the best reason I've seen for not having it on 360.

I don't know, I think the "fragmentation" of the community when dealing with a multi-platform release is moot when it's juxtaposed against Sonic Team's decision to artificially segment the community anyhow by linking character data permanently to a specific ship and forcing their player to pay extra for more characters on other ships. Even without a third party involved, Sega does a damned good job of segmenting and marginalizing their non-JP customers on their own. Case in point, PSO for the DC and NGC which (while global) didn't receive the same quests and updates that the JP servers did... as well as the PSP debacles. It's easier and cheaper for them to segregate the population in terms of localizing and securing licensed content.... and I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen in PSO2 even on "Global" servers. (Seriously, they couldn't even be bothered to get the Pizza Hut and KFC licenses for PSP2 in NA, despite those being AMERICAN companies.)

Maybe the slashing of Sega's regional offices in NA and EU will help matters... I don't know what the licensing hangups were, and consolidating the whole show onto Sega's Japanese branches may alleviate those issues. It could also indicate Sega's continual shrinking away from the west and portend bad things to come.

[Blackheart521]

Ok. This could all be simply summed up by the fact that a Free-to-Play model with microtransactions (exactly as you would imagine them) already exists on Xbox Live. Ever heard of a 3rd party game called Crimson Alliance? I'm sure a good number of us on 360 has played it. It's released as a Free-to-play model with more stuff available as microtransactions.

It isn't bad.


Crimson Aliiance is supposedly a free to play but really you just get the game with "trial" characters that you have to pay for in order to get past a half hour of content, THAT is not free to play, you cannot play that game to the end without purchasing a character... that is just shady advertising to write it off as something it is not... therefore Xbox Live has no F2P games on it.

[Chik'Tikka]

. We all know that they do indeed allow cross-platform 360/PC play. However, that is usually *only* if the other platform is the PC.

can you give a post 2007 example? +^_^+ i'm really curious now as to what games out there might me cross platform every since they updated their contracts+^_^+

[Akaimizu]

^ They still are about games that play across the two if the PC title is Live for Windows, it's still technically on the same live service. Problem is, not a lot of people are doing it, but I don't think they ever made it not allowed. It's more about having others do it. Thing is, I think more people would rather have it on Steam, nowadays, if they make a PC title.