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Omega-z
Jun 10, 2012, 09:38 PM
Why I say this, is because of the end of PSP2 Infinity and PSEP story here the link to it.

http://bumped.org/psublog/category/phantasy-star-eternal-planets/

and the Translated PSO2 prologue done by Espio.

http://forum.psupedia.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1765

They seem very similar if you ask me, And makes me wonder if they Oracle Fleet came from Gurhal?......hmmmm:-?

BIG OLAF
Jun 10, 2012, 09:40 PM
I was thinking that it's something to do with the Subspace travel that the Gurhalians were looking into in PSP2/infinity, and the ORACLE fleet is what became of the project, and now they're all finally at a new "home", generations later.

That's my theory, at least. Seems very possible.

Omega-z
Jun 10, 2012, 09:46 PM
That's what I'm think of too, in PSEP they started to do exactly what the is Oracle Fleet is doing. But I think they failed and then decided to use Sub-space like you said to go into other altered time line dimensions . Which lead to the start of the Arks. And maybe why the time-traveler comes to you.?

Siatome
Jun 10, 2012, 09:51 PM
What? For realz?! Blasphemies!!

Unless they stumble upon what happened to the Pioneer 2 after episode 4 in like fashion to how the original game had us tracking down what happened to Rico.. That would be kind of a cool combination of O and U..


If not than darn you gurhaall! Leave the GOOD PS games aloone!

BIG OLAF
Jun 10, 2012, 09:52 PM
If not than darn you gurhaall! Leave the GOOD PS games aloone!

PSP2 and PSP2i are/were amazing games. Don't be so broad and generalizing, please.

Siatome
Jun 10, 2012, 10:10 PM
PSP2 and PSP2i are/were amazing games. Don't be so broad and generalizing, please.

Sorry if that was a bit dramatic, it's so easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind, but I felt as if PSU left me standing at the alter, PSU left big tears in my eyes.
It took my tears and that's not nearly all.

NoiseHERO
Jun 10, 2012, 10:49 PM
I think they said infinity was indeed linked to PSO2 before infinity came out...

But it was very vague and nobody really talked about it much.

RocSage
Jun 10, 2012, 10:50 PM
No. I do not think that they are connected simply because of the name change of Little Wing vs Arkz.

I do however have an idea for a very radically different timeline between the Phantasy Star games which is that they are all taking place at different points in time or in different dimensions to the same group of planets effecting each other...


Basically...
Ragol is the far distant past of the system
Algol or Gurhal is the middle day era of the system
Coral is after the events of the PS series
Earth is after PS0

Ragol has 2 moons which in PS the other planets are referred to as moons a few times.

Ragol becomes Palma after many years and then they colonize Motavia and Dezoris

During this period a group of Palmans try to colonize a system with a planet Copto which is several thousand years in the future after the PS series. Palma is blown up and Motavia continues to die.

Dezoris and Motavia civilization degrades and dies out or leaves the system

in the far distant future Dezoris is landed on by Palmans calling it Copto

Over time Copto becomes known as Coral and they name the moon once known as Motavia Arca.

They build up their civ polluting Coral and building a few colonies on Arca, but then they decide it isn't sustainable and send out colonization ship to Ragol.

The Great Blank Happens and Coral/Arca become known as Earth/Moon

Shortly after the fall of Mother Trinity, the Alissa III makes contact and the connection is made about where Dark Falz came from and what is the reason for their destruction so they create the Noah and launch it on a return course which lands them many years in the past.


PSU is either a retelling of the PS series, an Alternate universe, they just named things wrong, or happens before the PS series but after PSO

Rycross is a giant spaceship that is more advanced than what we see the ancients are capable of so it is likely an outside force. Likewise it is dimensionally shifted.

We also see a Black Hole in the area. These two anomaly could explain all of what I'm talking about with the crazy time traveling theory

Another note is that all the dating systems and the backstories of the games are roughly the same...
AUW = After the Unification War
AW = After Waiz (which is an unification war)
AC = Allied Century (the same)

All stories consist of once there was a civ that split into two, one light and the other dark. They fought and both side were wiped out... or rather the Light side lost their Civ and forgot everything and the Dark side was sealed as Dark Falz.

I don't like the Alternate Reality theory though because it is a lot less interesting than a civ in some weird battle with itself across time.

Chik'Tikka
Jun 10, 2012, 11:36 PM
+^_^+ i'm not so savvy on PS story, but in PSU, Parum was called an artificial planet, after being destroyed by some calamity, could it be Palma restored? i mean, from what i gathered, it seemed Newmans had lived on Neudaiz for thousands of years+^_^+ and Moatoob seemed generally less capable of supporting life compared to Parum and Neudaiz, could it be the PSU is super far in the future and Parum=palma, neudaiz=dezoris, moatoob=motovia? i mean, between PSO, PSO2, and PSU, the Casts in PSU seemed a good deal more lifelike (thus more advanced), lacking the action figure joints of PSO2 and general artificial feel on PSO casts+^_^+
well at this time, ima choose to think PSU taking place far far far into the future of PSO2s story (like 150,000 years kinda difference)+^_^+

Randomness
Jun 10, 2012, 11:46 PM
+^_^+ i'm not so savvy on PS story, but in PSU, Parum was called an artificial planet, after being destroyed by some calamity, could it be Palma restored? i mean, from what i gathered, it seemed Newmans had lived on Neudaiz for thousands of years+^_^+ and Moatoob seemed generally less capable of supporting life compared to Parum and Neudaiz, could it be the PSU is super far in the future and Parum=palma, neudaiz=dezoris, moatoob=motovia? i mean, between PSO, PSO2, and PSU, the Casts in PSU seemed a good deal more lifelike (thus more advanced), lacking the action figure joints of PSO2 and general artificial feel on PSO casts+^_^+
well at this time, ima choose to think PSU taking place far far far into the future of PSO2s story (like 150,000 years kinda difference)+^_^+

Palma was utterly OBLITERATED. By the time of PSIV, it was an asteroid belt. That's not something you can fix at all. Not to mention, the original series had multiple races that look nothing like humans. Any attempt to connect the original series is a serious stretch... unless I suppose you go by way of PSIII.

Not to mention, in PSIV, space travel was practically a distant legend. Robots were practically forgotten.

Chik'Tikka
Jun 10, 2012, 11:54 PM
Palma was utterly OBLITERATED. By the time of PSIV, it was an asteroid belt. That's not something you can fix at all. Not to mention, the original series had multiple races that look nothing like humans. Any attempt to connect the original series is a serious stretch... unless I suppose you go by way of PSIII.

Not to mention, in PSIV, space travel was practically a distant legend. Robots were practically forgotten.

i see, maybe Sega just using that hooka a little too much and we're all putting too much behind what they make+^_^+ i mean aside from someone named Cid, yellow ostrich-finch hybrids, bat winged mouse-teady bears, and fancy airplanes, none of the FF games hook together in any way+^_^+

Zorafim
Jun 11, 2012, 12:22 AM
Dezolia is a planet of cold and ice and mountains and crevices. Unless the planet was moved ten light minutes toward its sun, which would destroy its ecosystem completely and take millions of years to repair, that alone should destroy the link between PS and PSU. Then the lack of native races besides Parmians is also something.

Really, here's how I like to think about things. All the Phantasy Stars are linked, in that they take place in the same universe. Same fundamental photon technology, same fundamental technique technology, same genetic manipulation, cybernetics, same rules in general. Each story takes place in different corners of the universe, never connecting.

THIS is disproved, though, with Dark Falz. There is always an ancient and terrible force that caused horrible harm to some civilization in each game. The only possible way this could happen, is if one part of the Profound Darkness escaped genocide from Algol. A fan favorite is that it escaped from the world ships escaping Parmia at the Great Collapse, since Darky himself claimed that all the ships had a Dark Force in them. We can assume that some of them were destroyed.
The ruins in PSO is a ship like the Alisa III, which crashed into Ragol. Either this, or a ship that was flown from a civilization that was plagued by a Dark Falz. Ragol was contained, but it's possible that another Darky grew in another galaxy and created the SEED. The climax to PSU was kind of rushed and not much story was in it, so I didn't get much information on Falz or the SEED.

As for PSO2... I'm going to wait until I get more information. Apparently, time travel or something.

My general rule is, fans care about the story more than the writers do. Fans can do a ton of research and find all these connections that the story writers don't see. The writers may just want Dark Force in the game just because, same way Nintendo villains are always thrown in last minute, or how Freddy always finds a way to come back to life. So, taking this into mind, I'm going to say that all the stories are unconnected until otherwise stated by an official source.

Omega-z
Jun 11, 2012, 12:26 AM
I don't recall Parum being artificial at all. And PSP2 Infinity at end the with Emilia and Nagisa cross over into PSO dimension. They actually change the time line or split it you can say. Since they help Rico and Flowen to stay alive before Pioneer 2 even arrived. Mean's no EP.1, EP.2 EP.4 or EP3 since this would of been all different in that time line. So PSO has a Split time line one that has Rico & Flowen Dead and one there alive.

BIG OLAF
Jun 11, 2012, 12:29 AM
Ho boy. Split timelines = major headaches incoming. At least from what I've experienced. Probably why I prefer just swapping the canon out with something that I think makes sense (and it's usually better than SEGA's convoluted bullshit, anywho).

RocSage
Jun 11, 2012, 12:32 AM
i see, maybe Sega just using that hooka a little too much and we're all putting too much behind what they make+^_^+ i mean aside from someone named Cid, yellow ostrich-finch hybrids, bat winged mouse-teady bears, and fancy airplanes, none of the FF games hook together in any way+^_^+

That's actually not true.

Final Fantasy 7 is in the same universe as Final Fantasy 10 and 10-2

12 and the Tactics series of FF exist on the same world.

The other games could be connected in some way and FF9 tries to do this to some degree, but if they are it is uncertain how or if it was intended


Also keep Legend of Zelda games for a long time were said not to be connected, but they are.

Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross takes a lot of work to figure out how they're connected.


The PS series may not have been originally connected, but they have connected them now, but it is uncertain just how the connection works.
The most notable things is
Ark ship Crowley in PSU looks to be of the same design as the Ruins ship in PSO
The stuff in PSO looks to be designed by PS people
PS people did seal and send Dark Falz away on a ship
Coral = Earth.
Sega sucks at translations making some connections fuzzy like Copto/Coral = same word in Japanese from what I have heard and likewise Parum = Palm

What set my idea in motion is hear Coral be called Earth and hearing about how they sold t as "returning to the beginning" and nameing the game Phantasy Star 0 rather than something else which would confuse people less.

RocSage
Jun 11, 2012, 12:49 AM
I don't recall Parum being artificial at all. And PSP2 Infinity at end the with Emilia and Nagisa cross over into PSO dimension. They actually change the time line or split it you can say. Since they help Rico and Flowen to stay alive before Pioneer 2 even arrived. Mean's no EP.1, EP.2 EP.4 or EP3 since this would of been all different in that time line. So PSO has a Split time line one that has Rico & Flowen Dead and one there alive.

Actually, no.

The sequence of events pretty much plays out like this.

Ragol is colonized and military/scientists start making their way to the Ruins
When they get to the ruins they open the seal unlocking the Dark Falz entity...
This changes Flowen in a Dark Falz and causes the explosion on the surface that anhilates the colony, but leaves the science center and Rico alive. This is also when Pioneer 2 reaches Ragol
Rico starts on her journey to the ruins laying down message
PSP2i crew arrives
They meet up with Rico and head into DF's chamber...
Rico and the PSP2i crew fight Flowen Falz and are getting their buts kicked
4 hunters (perhaps the more advanced people from P2 arrive like Kireek or 4 hunters from Go dal val science lab)
The 8 of them fight against Flowen Falz and defeat him, turning him back into human form.
They then go to Go dal Val island lab and the PSP2i crew are sent home.
Experiments on Flowen are performed. Rico is likely sent back to the ruins to see if she can find anything.
Rico turns into Dark Falz

While all this is happening you are making your way to the ruins, reporting back on what you have found and then finally you reach ruins and defeat Rico as Dark Falz

Flowen merges with Olga and becomes Olga Flow, killing everyone in the lab at some point.

The question is really, how long did it take you to explore those areas and how they heck did you miss Rico all that time. Someone might bring up that no communications were received after the explosion, but that's easy to explain.

Go da Val science lab was a secret and likely would never have communicated with P2 and probably went out of their way not to contact them.

I would bet that the exploration of the areas, even though it could be done in a day to get from Forest to Ruins took a lot longer time due to you coming back to the Principal and reporting in and then at some later point being sent back down once they have figured out what to do next.

It is possible also that Rico and the Science lab guys set up a teleporter in the ruins so that it was easily accessed without running into colonists. It's also possible that Rico just had orders to keep hidden and so hid away, or the sear fact that other hunters were around it likely was easy to miss.

Omega-z
Jun 11, 2012, 12:53 AM
I'm actually working on a complete timeline that connect's all of this and can be understandable too it's just a work progress since I'm get all of from a lot of soucre's to as accurate as I can. It will consisted of a time line chart, bio's, with a story with some theories (but as few as I can). Now I will be open to any idea's to make it sound better if it need's it, Since the Fan's are the best with idea's. Just let me finish it then comment on it. So far I think I can place where PSO2 will be, But this could change or connect part's together. So everything is subject to change.

Oh Ark Ship Crowley was built by Wynarl to house the evil Sun God King Kuhman which was an Ancient from PSU and Dark Falz in it like a seal of sort's. But was used but got turned into a traveling ship at the end of Infinity. It's like you said RocSage about how different group can have similar Technologies given the right amount of time.

RocSage - It a different Time line those two are there 7 year's before Pioneer 2 even got there, Rico was looking for Flowen when those two helped her and they went thru all of the place's of EP.1 yes but it wasn't EP.1, they were also teleported to sea bed lab with other Hunter's that were there. so there was like 7+ of them. Flowen wasn't totally precessed yet and was rescued and it was Olg Flow not Falz, Falz was kill by fellow Hunter's of Pioneer 1. So by the change there was no need of Pioneer 2 of doing any of the thing's that happened in the Ep's and no break up of the people to land on the planet since it was all clear of Falz by then. And this could lead into Oracle since the Pioneer 1 engineer's had worked on the Sub-space machine to repair for those two. So it possible it could be them, but not likely base on there actions of PSO2.

Zorafim
Jun 11, 2012, 12:56 AM
Also keep Legend of Zelda games for a long time were said not to be connected, but they are.

It took 20 years for an official timeline, which was split three ways. And in 20 years, we'll learn how the PS games are connected. Hopefully.




PS people did seal and send Dark Falz away on a ship


Not quite true. Dark Force was completely destroyed every time it attacked Algol, and its source was also completely destroyed. They didn't need to resort to sealing. Darky did stowaway on a bunch of ships headed anywhere, meaning he could have spread to different systems or potentially galaxies. The messages inside the ruins state that the ship was used specifically for Darky to be sealed and entombed in, so it can't be one of the colony ships from Parma. However, the Darky who was sealed in the ship COULD be a Darky which landed on a random civilization using a PS colony ship.


Coral = Earth.

I didn't play PS0. It was stated specifically that the planet there was where the colony to Ragol was launched from, and that it was our Earth, right? Was there any connection between them, and the earthmen who attacked during PSII?


Sega sucks at translations making some connections fuzzy like Copto/Coral = same word in Japanese from what I have heard and likewise Parum = Palm

Sega does suck at translating. Even in PSU, there were translation errors. However, in PSU, there were also specific references to PS which were intended, but the words were modified slightly. Parum was meant to sound like Parma, Neudaiz was meant to sound like New Dez(olia), and Moatoob was mean to sound like Motavia. There is even a Ryucross in both series. Also, Fulren Curtz was meant to sound like Forren, Lutzu was meant to sound like Lutz, and... There were a few more references in there.
But it seemed like they made it clear these were just references. Lutz seems to study different religeons in both his incarnations (also, different species). Forren could, personality-wise, be similar to Curtz after EP2, but it's doubtful he became a system overseer in another civilization under thousand years (Wren's established age). And... Ryucross had something to it which was completely different than PS's, but I can't remember what it is (besides not being made of crystals, and having building structures instead of a bunch of flat and jaggedness. Also, Seed.).

I think I got off track. My point is, be careful. Make sure the different names are translation errors, and not references.


What set my idea in motion is hear Coral be called Earth and hearing about how they sold t as "returning to the beginning" and naming the game Phantasy Star 0 rather than something else which would confuse people less.

Again, I'm going to be sad if Coral is the same earth that attacked Algol. If that's the case, you're trying to save a civilization that destroys itself, sends part of itself to a world with an ancient god, and sends the rest to destroy a civilization so it can rebuild itself instead of integrating. That's kind of depressing for a game with such bubbly character models.

RocSage
Jun 11, 2012, 01:05 AM
This sounds pretty ligit, check it out.....

http://allahweh.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/phantasy-star-timeline-theories-and-connections/

I've read that and I don't fully agree with it. The time warping thing solves problems that he says exists like

3284 is the date given for the of PS3 which he says is contradicted by somewhere it saying it happens at the same time as PS4 and that would "make more sense" as it is closer.

The fact is the later point doesn't work because it is 1000 years after PS2 regardless which means the amount of time in the ship is absurd either way. Apply the fact they flew through a black hole and passed by a trans-dimensional malevolent "planet ship" along with they're in a ship that is supposed to be ancient and rushed into use. It stands to reason their timeline is going to get all messed up.

The former point of contradiction is thrown out because with mucking about in time things can be happening concurrently in different points in time.

Further. That date 3284 just happens to be the year of PSzero and Coral is calling itself earth, just battled Dark Falz and just got it's hands on higher technology.

You just found out the DF is the reason your planet was messed up beyond repair, and you found out that DF is from this system that these guys now landing are from and suddenly you have the tech to track back and get revenge? That's definitely what would happen in that situation.

Further, the Meteor that hit Coral. A piece of Palma? Probably.


Plus on top of that remember that Dark Falz, Rycross, the Darkers, and the Seeds, and whatever else you want to call them are transdimensional and have been around for a long time. Messing about in timelines and alternate realities is likely no big thing to them/it.

So, while that is a good timeline, I think it brushes away the little clues which lead to a much more interesting reality in mt opinion.


I wonder what AP means though... After Parum?

Omega-z
Jun 11, 2012, 01:16 AM
That sight has it's theories and some are good but some are not along the cannon line's too. I've checked it too don't worry.

Oh, Zorafim it been brought to my attention that Lutz is the one that Sealed spaceship Noah after Rolf's attack on it and Sealed Dark Falz which is the Ruin's of PSO and there's proof of it too in PSO.

Cyrusnagisa
Jun 11, 2012, 01:20 AM
ok it is late..... I should go to bed ;p... I deleted my post some how -.-

This sounds pretty ligit, check it out.....

http://allahweh.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/phantasy-star-timeline-theories-and-connections/

RocSage
Jun 11, 2012, 01:25 AM
RocSage - It a different Time line those two are there 7 year's before Pioneer 2 even got there, Rico was looking for Flowen when those two helped her and they went thru all of the place's of EP.1 yes but it wasn't EP.1, they were also teleported to sea bed lab with other Hunter's that were there. so there was like 7+ of them. Flowen wasn't totally precessed yet and was rescued and it was Olg Flow not Falz, Falz was kill by fellow Hunter's of Pioneer 1. So by the change there was no need of Pioneer 2 of doing any of the thing's that happened in the Ep's and no break up of the people to land on the planet since it was all clear of Falz by then. And this could lead into Oracle since the Pioneer 1 engineer's had worked on the Sub-space machine to repair for those two. So it possible it could be them, but not likely base on there actions.

Umm none of that is in PSP2i as far as I have seen. I DLed the script and there is only one mission with Rico in that script. It is clear that Rico is putting down those messages we find in PSO which she puts down AFTER the explosion. So that is wrong right off the bat.

I called Flown Dark Falz, because he is a Dark Falz, they just are calling him something different. They are calling him Olga Flow in the game only so that people don't have a fit about the names. Olga and the experiments didn't happen until after he was exposed and it is clear in the script of PSP2i that Rico didn't know what was happening with Flowen thus indicating that the experiments on Flowen which made him "Olga" Flow didn't happen till later.



Not quite true. Dark Force was completely destroyed every time it attacked Algol, and its source was also completely destroyed. They didn't need to resort to sealing. Darky did stowaway on a bunch of ships headed anywhere, meaning he could have spread to different systems or potentially galaxies. The messages inside the ruins state that the ship was used specifically for Darky to be sealed and entombed in, so it can't be one of the colony ships from Parma. However, the Darky who was sealed in the ship COULD be a Darky which landed on a random civilization using a PS colony ship.


I see. I've only played PS1 partially and none of the others. I just take what is said by others for those games, but it does show that that link is wrong in that aspect too.



I didn't play PS0. It was stated specifically that the planet there was where the colony to Ragol was launched from, and that it was our Earth, right? Was there any connection between them, and the earthmen who attacked during PSII?

...

Again, I'm going to be sad if Coral is the same earth that attacked Algol. If that's the case, you're trying to save a civilization that destroys itself, sends part of itself to a world with an ancient god, and sends the rest to destroy a civilization so it can rebuild itself instead of integrating. That's kind of depressing for a game with such bubbly character models.

I forget where it is stated that PS0 takes place on Coral, but in the game everyone calls it Earth and the Moon. This is not a mis-translation or something because Arca is used as well for certain places on the moon.

I think the problem is that when someone says "Earth" people think "this Earth" and not a fictional Earth that could have nothing to do with the real Earth. London is the only city that is said in PS3 and there are only a few cities known in PS0 so it is possible London exists on that Earth and we never ran into it.

At best we're presuming there are 2 planets names Earth in the PS universe or that PS3 takes place the same year but then is whisked much further into the future when Coral/Earth has completely forgotten all about this stuff.

I prefer my idea over either of those as it seems to fit together that way best and it's just more interesting imo.

Zorafim
Jun 11, 2012, 01:49 AM
Oh, Zorafim it been brought to my attention that Lutz is the one that Sealed spaceship Noah after Rolf's attack on it and Sealed Dark Falz which is the Ruin's of PSO and there's proof of it too in PSO.

There is supposed to be a piece of art in PSO showing a force, presumably Lutz, at the alter grave Dark Force lays under. I don't know what happened to Noah nor the space men, nor Rolf's party after PSII. But I do know that Dark Force doesn't need sealing in the Algol series. At least according to PSIV, a Dark Force is killed for good when slain. Another one is simply made after a millennium, and sent again. Darkies are even a random encounter in the Profound Darkness.
This is also a reason I don't like linking PSO and classic: Darky comes back after a thousand years in PSO, but doesn't in classic. Though I think PSIII says something about them coming back after a thousand years, though he could have just said that he was resting for a thousand years...

Anyway, could you cite your source for what you said? I wanna compare notes.

NoiseHERO
Jun 11, 2012, 01:49 AM
Final Fantasy 7 is in the same universe as Final Fantasy 10 and 10-2

WHAT?

REALLY?

HOW?!

RocSage
Jun 11, 2012, 01:57 AM
WHAT?

REALLY?

HOW?!

Keep in mind FF7 was never planned to connect to anything. The FF10 creators wrote their story to connect to FF7, though it is a really vague connection that I don't quite remember but it has something to do with Shinra and the Spheres.

Omega-z
Jun 11, 2012, 02:19 AM
http://allahweh.wordpress.com/2011/0...d-connections/

Has loop hole and theories base make everything as one timeline which has problem with the cannon.

RocSage - That not true, It never stat's anything about Pioneer 2 at all and put's it in the time frame of Pioneer 1 which Rico stat's. And I just checked, Also it was Olga Flow not Falz, Flowen was being taken over by D-cell's but it turn him into Olga not Falz, Flowen stat's that him self. The explosion that happen's takes place during Pioneer 1 time table and start's the search early. Also Accounding to PSO EP.1 we known that Rico, Flowen was on Pioneer 1 and not 2.

RocSage
Jun 11, 2012, 02:31 AM
http://allahweh.wordpress.com/2011/0...d-connections/

Has loop hole and theories base make everything as one timeline which has problem with the cannon.

RocSage - That not true, It never stat's anything about Pioneer 2 at all and put's it in the time frame of Pioneer 1 which Rico stat's. And I just checked, Also it was Olga Flow not Falz, Flowen was being taken over by D-cell's but it turn him into Olga not Falz, Flowen stat's that him self. The explosion that happen's takes place during Pioneer 1 time table and start's the search early. Also Accounding to PSO EP.1 we known that Rico, Flowen was on Pioneer 1 and not 2.

Read what i wrote, not what you think I wrote.
Rico and Flowen were on P1 yes.
Rico survives P1 explosion that happens when P2 arrives and this is when she goes on her quest down to the ruins, leaving messages behind.

The Messages you read in PSO are the messages that you read in PSP2i.
This sets that story after the arrival of Pioneer 2.

It has always been known that Rico isn't killed in the explosion of Pioneer 1 and that her transformation occurred some time after Pioneer 2 arrived.

Angelo
Jun 11, 2012, 04:31 AM
Time for my crazy theory that everyone seems to hate.

I think that PSO and PSU take place in an alternate version of the original PS games.

Here we have a map of the Algol system. It basically 'mirrors' what is seen in the Gurhal system.

My theory to link the first two games together is that Ragol is Rykros in the PSU games. In the original PS games Rykros had an incredibly elongated orbit, and if discovered at a far point of it's orbit could be seen as a lone planet.

http://allahweh.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/starchart.png
(In this diagram Palma has already been destroyed)

it's stated in the game that it's orbit takes around 1000 years. Rykros in the PS games is stated to be a bad omen that will only show up as a sign that the guardians of Algol should prepare for something catastrophic (the rise of Falz). It's also stated that Falz was at one point sealed away on Rykros, not unlike how Falz is/was sealed on Ragol.

The infamous PSO 'seal' of Ragol has the words 'Muut, Ditts, Poumn' (Motavia/Moatoob, Dezolis/Newdeiz, Palma/Parum) on it, which means that the planet is in some way affiliated with other planets. There are also items like 'Prophets of Motav', which is obviously a reference to the desert planet Moatoob/Motavia, SPECULATION: If you consider the fact that the item looks very similar to a 'Bible', which mirrors the real life concept of a collected works of prophets from a desert.

When Rykros finally does show up in PSU, it's been heavily infected by the SEED to the point where it no longer resembles the planet it once was (Ragol). The only remnants of this planet is found in the VR data collected from Rykros, which was of course maps from the original PSO.

This theory was incredibly unpopular a few years ago and I have a feeling a lot of it derived from the fact that many people did not want to see PSU as "PSO2", but now that we actually have a PSO2 maybe the connection won't sting as much.

So if the ending of PSP2i connects to PSO2, then it means that in theory all games in the online series are connected.

Omega-z
Jun 11, 2012, 08:18 AM
RocSage - I have read you post's but your adding your own idea's, But other one's are closer to truth tho and I'll point out one of them for you that you post'd. The Messages are older then you realize they are old and corrupted by the time you read them. Also Pioneer 1 was still in space going by Rico say's to the two. That explosion is not the same one form the start of Pioneer 2 but a second one( the fist of the two if you have the bad ending). Even when everything started that way in PSP2i, then changed if the PSU girls aren't there, and follow's the first story.

Angelo - Your right that there not in the same space of time and have there own place that theory is very close on what going on.

Zorafim - I'll be happy to compare with you, Just need to get back from work.:)

RocSage
Jun 11, 2012, 08:46 AM
RocSage - I have read you post's but your adding your own idea's, But other one's are closer to truth tho and I'll point out one of them for you that you post'd. The Messages are older then you realize they are old and corrupted by the time you read them. Also Pioneer 1 was still in space going by Rico say's to the two. That explosion is not the same one form the start of Pioneer 2 but a second one( the fist of the two if you have the bad ending). Even when everything started that way in PSP2i, then changed if the PSU girls aren't there, and follow's the first story.


You're reading it wrong

The year in PSP2i is 3084, the year Pioneer 2 enters the Ragol's Orbit

When Rico meets with the people of PSP2i she tells them to return to Pioneer 1. At this time. Pioneer 1 is the colony on the ground as the ships are Colony Ships, meaning you land them and you convert the ship into the city on the ground.

Rico never realizes or thinks that she is the only one left on the planet and handles it as if she isn't but rather this is an emergency situation, which is why she tells the PSP2i group to go to Pioneer 1, the colony.

Also your story could never be right because if it were, the group of 4 hunters would never have arrived. Gal de Vol would have prevented it.

Gama
Jun 11, 2012, 10:06 AM
i'm enjoying this tread quite allot. since i never understood most of the game's names and some parts of the story.

:o

Anon_Fire
Jun 11, 2012, 10:24 AM
Or maybe everyone here is really having trouble putting out a true timeline together because SEGA hasn't fully revealed everything yet.

Anna_Wren
Jun 11, 2012, 02:03 PM
Rycros was built as a giant Nanotransformer to Seal Dark Falz. The Ancients also used that technology to continue to exist after Falz had ravaged the planets. Its not even a planet and the reason its so infected is due to the insane amount of A-Photon that exists there.

It is NOT Ragol or any other planet. Its a giant Death Star for all intents and purposes.

Omega-z
Jun 11, 2012, 06:01 PM
Yes, I over looked the one capsule on year period but it never stat's that Pioneer 2 even arrived. They did come that year but when in that year tho. Because even after all that happen, Rico and Flowen went on to defeat Falz few months later and still no Pioneer 2. So maybe they came at the end of the year and was a few month's away from that point. But either way History had changed and is not the same as the original series at all with PSP2i version being applied. I never said it was a story? It was the cannon I was reading back to you I just missed the Year Point. It is a long read which you know. It's fine that you have your theory on it but do know that The cannon makes them out to be separate history's with Rico & Flowen dead and Falz and Olga alive with a deeper line on one side and the other has it the other way around which doesn't go any farther then the defeat of Falz.........Who know's maybe you can pick the destiny of the story of PSO in PSO2.:-?

Anna_Wren your right that Dark Rycross is an Ancient made man fortress with a Confinement System on it to battle the SEED. Sun King Kumhan got tricked and lost his people instead being sent to Maghara, Reason why the King Kumhan needed the codex's to reopen it.

RocSage
Jun 11, 2012, 06:40 PM
Yes, I over looked the one capsule on year period but it never stat's that Pioneer 2 even arrived. They did come that year but when in that year tho. Because even after all that happen, Rico and Flowen went on to defeat Falz few months later and still no Pioneer 2. So maybe they came at the end of the year and was a few month's away from that point. But either way History had changed and is not the same as the original series at all with PSP2i version being applied. I never said it was a story? It was the cannon I was reading back to you I just missed the Year Point. It is a long read which you know. It's fine that you have your theory on it but do know that The cannon makes them out to be separate history's with Rico & Flowen dead and Falz and Olga alive with a deeper line on one side and the other has it the other way around which doesn't go any farther then the defeat of Falz.........Who know's maybe you can pick the destiny of the story of PSO in PSO2.:-?

How would Rico know that Pioneer 2 has arrived? The explosion happens as they start to make contact.

No history has not changed. No where does it say it does. There is also no "good" and "bad" ending to the mission, but even pre-supposing there is PSO's first boss would be Olga Flow, not Dark Falz.

What you are telling is a story, whether it is canon or not, which it isn't because no facts back up what you are saying.

The canon of the game does not make Flowen and Rico to be "dead." The canon of PSO and PSP2i places Rico searching for answers to what happened after the explosion you first see in PSO. The canon of PSO and PSP2i place Flowen getting infected with d-cells and being to taken to Gal de Vol island to be experimented on and to eventually become Olga Flow.

Both Flowen and Rico are presumed dead in PSO because in PSO Pioneer2 has no idea what happened. It could be argued that Flowen was alive and well along with plenty of the Gal de Vol island staff for quite a while and Pioneer 2 simply didn't know about them as makes sense since contacting Pioneer 2 would reveal their secret facility and such.

To be clear, at no point does PSP2i EVER contradict anything told to us in PSO. The story fits perfectly with what we know.

Omega-z
Jun 11, 2012, 07:43 PM
Let me clear it up for you Rico & Flowen work for the government of Pioneer 1. They had a Break to report and get info between Flowen's problem and Falz (3-4 months). If Falz is defeated by them then no Big Boom when Pioneer 2 arrives.
The explosion that Rico was working on was form before and was sent to investigate and search for Flowen at the same time. And Flowen was save before Falz was destroy which is the opposite of the original (was also later in time 2yrs) which you didn't save him (at least not in the same way).

Gal de Vol island doesn't matter since Eilima, Nasgata and Rico gain access with other's from the Ruin's to the Seabed's disposal shaft to save Flowen So even that's different. Since people from Pioneer 1 still worked there and wasn't in lock-down.

This is all in the Cannon's story, I don't know why your fighting so hard to prove it wrong when it's just right there saying so? I'm sorry but your's is the story since there is no way one can connect them together like that ..... did you ever play the Original EP's? Because it look's like you forgot a lot, That to your skipping and picking out only part's of PSP2i Chapter ...... Do you have all of it? Most of this is pretty apparent to see thru out the story. How can I be making it up since I'm just reading the fact's to you ..... I guess no more Trollfeed for you.

This discussion is done, More on topic with PSO2 with PSU thank you.

Neo Flint
Jun 11, 2012, 08:45 PM
Yo, this thread is making my head spin a little.

I just want one thing clarified:

Is PSO1, PSU and the Genesis games contented to each other in some way or at they just different story lines entirely? What about PSO2?

I swear, Sega seems to care more about the sex appeal than the actual story, lol. I mean, what is the point of Infinity's chapter 4 other than seeing Nagisa in a bikini? Not that I personally dislike that or anything. :-P

Omega-z
Jun 11, 2012, 09:09 PM
Neo Flint - There's hint's at best but really no connection to each other directly. But yeah they like the sex appeal the most.:)

Mike
Jun 11, 2012, 09:50 PM
I swear, Sega seems to care more about the sex appeal than the actual story, lol. I mean, what is the point of Infinity's chapter 4 other than seeing Nagisa in a bikini? Not that I personally dislike that or anything. :-P
To have Nagisa experience a bit of fun to try and convince her to live. She goes off and tries to get the players to try and kill her in the next chapter. And fan service of course.

BIG OLAF
Jun 11, 2012, 10:11 PM
This is why I stick to my own canon. Not nearly as convoluted and stupid, and it still makes sense. SEGA, like many 'professional' game developers, aren't really that great at consistency.

Zorafim
Jun 11, 2012, 10:55 PM
Neo Flint - There's hint's at best but really no connection to each other directly. But yeah they like the sex appeal the most.:)

This. Even the genesis games, which were directly connected, didn't have much to do with each other until Falz's reveal. If you want to connect the games, you're going to have to do a TON of work.


This is why I stick to my own canon. Not nearly as convoluted and stupid, and it still makes sense. SEGA, like many 'professional' game developers, aren't really that great at consistency.

Wise move.

Randomness
Jun 11, 2012, 11:04 PM
This is why I stick to my own canon. Not nearly as convoluted and stupid, and it still makes sense. SEGA, like many 'professional' game developers, aren't really that great at consistency.

Yeah, that "official" zelda timeline has holes large enough to drive a truck through, for instance.

As far as I can tell, the only explicit link between different series is PSZ taking place on Coral. Other than that, they're all seperate... though PSP2 starts edging towards Heinlein territory.

RocSage
Jun 12, 2012, 12:17 AM
You have it completely wrong.


Let me clear it up for you Rico & Flowen work for the government of Pioneer 1.


Rico is created the mercenary group known as the Hunters. They work with the government to help the citizens of Pioneer 1, and Pioneer 2 eventually, to maintain peace and order.

Flowen works for the Government as a soldier, Coral's Government, in a secret facility, only a few people knew about.



They had a Break to report and get info between Flowen's problem and Falz (3-4 months).


No. There is no break.



If Falz is defeated by them then no Big Boom when Pioneer 2 arrives.


No, because the explosion is not caused by Falz. If it were caused by Falz it would have happened multiple times, over and over, throughout the games, but beyond that it makes no sense. Falz is trying to corrupt as many things as possible so it wouldn't cause an explosion.

Further Falz is not a singular entity. Falz is many entities and is created through the corruption of a host. Rico, Flowen, Kireek to a small degree, Mother Trinity, etc.



The explosion that Rico was working on was form before and was sent to investigate and search for Flowen at the same time.


No. Rico was outside the colony, working as a Hunter, which is why she survived. She simply started exploring the explosion site to find out what happened. She was not looking for Flowen, nor was she sent to rescue him.

Flowen worked for Gal de Vol. He was the top commanding officer and would have been the leader of any expedition into unknown territory, like the ruins. Likewise, Rico is a civilian, I don't quite know how Merc are regarded by military, but as such she would not have ever been contacted to go into a secret area to explore it nor to rescue anyone, especially not military officers.

The Explosion happened when the Dark Falz seal was removed by Flowen expeditionary force and as the leader and strongest person there he was the first targeted by the "Dark Force" thus he was the "Falz" but as seen just because you're corrupted doesn't mean you can't fight it, which Flowen did, along with Rico and the others on the physical side.

Remember Flowen was experimented on a Gal de Vol, which sounded immoral at the time because we assumed they exposed him to it, but this reveals that he was exposed to the d-cells first and as such he would have had to be quarantined and tested. So this bit makes the Secret Government agency seem less immoral and just following procedure. It doesn't change what happened.



And Flowen was save before Falz was destroy which is the opposite of the original (was also later in time 2yrs) which you didn't save him (at least not in the same way).


No, Flowen resisted so the "Dark Force" started corrupting the next strongest, Rico. Once the fight was over and everyone went to Gal de Vol island to send the PSP2i people on their way Rico would have been the first to be sent back to the Ruins as she the strongest there, she knows the secret, she has the most experience in the area, she likely would have volunteered to help Flowen. This is likely when she was Corrupted, which is actually pretty close to when you fight Falz. Remember as you get closer in PSO you get telepathically talked to by Rico, trying to fight Falz off.



Gal de Vol island doesn't matter since Eilima, Nasgata and Rico gain access with other's from the Ruin's to the Seabed's disposal shaft to save Flowen So even that's different. Since people from Pioneer 1 still worked there and wasn't in lock-down.


Are you talking about the mines or the the Gal de Vol lab? Yes there are people still working at the Gal de Vol labs. Flowen hasn't killed them yet. He won't for quite a while still at that point.



This is all in the Cannon's story, I don't know why your fighting so hard to prove it wrong when it's just right there saying so?


No, it is not canon. You are adding a lot that just isn't there and goes contradictory to the actual cannon. You explanation adds events that simply don't happen, and people acting illogically and out of character. What you are thinking is wrong. I'm not saying I'm 100% right, but I'm only going off of the facts that we are given, not adding or taking away stuff to make it suit what I want.



I'm sorry but your's is the story since there is no way one can connect them together like that


Are you trying to insult me by saying what I think is a story? Canon is the officially accepted story of the universe. There are many ways to determine canon, but generally the most accepted source of canon is the actual primary media, while all other sources have lower hierarchies.



..... did you ever play the Original EP's? Because it look's like you forgot a lot, That to your skipping and picking out only part's of PSP2i Chapter ...... Do you have all of it?


I know more about PSO and PSU than just about anyone. While I have forgotten a lot of stuff, I'm pretty sure I know more than most still, simply because I'm on of the few people that cared enough to go and learn about this stuff from the game world.



Most of this is pretty apparent to see thru out the story. How can I be making it up since I'm just reading the fact's to you ..... I guess no more Trollfeed for you.


The fact do not support what you are saying. And disagreeing doesn't make someone a troll, though calling someone a troll for disagreeing with you makes you look like a twit.



This discussion is done, More on topic with PSO2 with PSU thank you.

You can't talk about PSO2's story because noone knows it
PSU's story on the other hand is mainly inconsequential as it makes a mess of most theories on how things connect if they do.


Yeah, that "official" zelda timeline has holes large enough to drive a truck through, for instance.

As far as I can tell, the only explicit link between different series is PSZ taking place on Coral. Other than that, they're all seperate... though PSP2 starts edging towards Heinlein territory.

Not really

PSzero can connect to the original series, but only if you buy into a couple of things.

PSzero is either the connector of PSO and the original PS series (as it appears to be) or is just a random tale sorta like PS:Gaiden

PSU and PSO is connected only via PSP2i's Rico quest and the VR simulator on Rycross.
The VR simulator I have no explanation for, even if it connects it makes no sense so that isn't a connector in my books. So we're left with Rico's Quest.

Rico's Quest isn't really a connector either because it's technomagic. The PSU people are magically transported to Ragol. They could have traveled through time, to another dimension, or to another solar system. We don't know and it's not clarified ever so it doesn't connect them as Alternate universes, unless they interact with each other all the time are there more or less, just for fun.

Cypher_9
Jun 13, 2012, 06:42 PM
Shion will tell us the answers soon enough... *meditate*

Other than that... this is some interesting stuff going on here... very nice thoughts...

Allahweh
Jul 5, 2012, 11:49 PM
I'm the one who wrote that timeline over at my blog and then on a site called Anjel Syndicate, and it's always fun to come and see these discussions continuing. I wrote those timelines over a year ago and have thought about revising them given some new data.

It is unclear to me what the real connection between PSO and PSU is. In the first draft of the timeline I said it was possible Parum was a futuristic version of Ragol. That is possible, but something else I read recently made a good case for Rykros (in PSU) being Ragol because the VR data was said to have come from the planet's surface. That person said they think Ragol was drawn by photons to the Gurhal system. That seems plausible too and could explain the "Crossing Time and Space" reference from PSP2i. Is that how humans came to Gurhal? Who knows.

Regardless, we need to figure out if the AW calendar is the same as AUW. If AUW stands for "After Unification War" that could be, although it could refer to something on Coral's past and not Palma's. Yet, Coral seems very likely to be Copto if for no other reason than the characters for Copto can be written as Coral, so I tend to think that Coral was the world settled after PS1.

It seems that PSO2 uses a new dating system called AP and is set in AP 238. Any idea what AP stands for yet? I kind of wondered if it was something like "After Pioneer" although it's quite likely it's own thing, like AC in PSU.

RocSage
Jul 6, 2012, 12:05 AM
I'm the one who wrote that timeline over at my blog and then on a site called Anjel Syndicate, and it's always fun to come and see these discussions continuing. I wrote those timelines over a year ago and have thought about revising them given some new data.

It is unclear to me what the real connection between PSO and PSU is. In the first draft of the timeline I said it was possible Parum was a futuristic version of Ragol. That is possible, but something else I read recently made a good case for Rykros (in PSU) being Ragol because the VR data was said to have come from the planet's surface. That person said they think Ragol was drawn by photons to the Gurhal system. That seems plausible too and could explain the "Crossing Time and Space" reference from PSP2i. Is that how humans came to Gurhal? Who knows.

Regardless, we need to figure out if the AW calendar is the same as AUW. If AUW stands for "After Unification War" that could be, although it could refer to something on Coral's past and not Palma's. Yet, Coral seems very likely to be Copto if for no other reason than the characters for Copto can be written as Coral, so I tend to think that Coral was the world settled after PS1.

It seems that PSO2 uses a new dating system called AP and is set in AP 238. Any idea what AP stands for yet? I kind of wondered if it was something like "After Pioneer" although it's quite likely it's own thing, like AC in PSU.

Check out this page...
The first page and the first post on the 4th page has many scenes translated/posted.

On the 5th page is a time of the events as we see them.

The game starts in February of their year which if I remember right so did PSU, which is interesting.

I think the best way for all timelines to fit currently is to toss out PSU though as it break all the ideas for timelines.

AUW - After Unification War
AW - After Waiez (a unification war)
AC - Allied Century (another unification war)

AP - Is there are word for unification that starts with P? If so then that's probably it.

It could also mean After Parum/Palma/Pioneer, but I doubt that is the case.

We have as yet been told what the date means and I don't see any clues unless we look at other games which isn't all too helpful.

The Walrus
Jul 6, 2012, 12:13 AM
Wait so PSP2i has you go back and encounter Rico or am I just getting confused by everything here?

Swaggerjak
Jul 6, 2012, 12:15 AM
This thread blew my friggin' mind.

Mike
Jul 6, 2012, 12:17 AM
Wait so PSP2i has you go back and encounter Rico or am I just getting confused by everything here?
Yup. It borks all of PSO by going to Ragol and saving Rico and Flowen who then go on to defeat Dark Falz.

RocSage
Jul 6, 2012, 12:18 AM
Wait so PSP2i has you go back and encounter Rico or am I just getting confused by everything here?

Yes. There is a bonus mission added into the "i" version where you are tra... Look over there!... And now you're on Ragol after the Explosion from the beginning of PSO, but before hunters have been sent down to investigate and then once you have successfully helped Rico with Flowen you are tra... Look over there!... and now you're back in Gurhal.

Yeah. It's there, but it really doesn't say much as to where there is, whether in a different place in space, or another time, or another universe all together.

RocSage
Jul 6, 2012, 12:19 AM
Yup. It borks all of PSO by going to Ragol and saving Rico and Flowen who then go on to defeat Dark Falz.

That's not what happens.

GoldenFalcon
Jul 6, 2012, 12:35 AM
Guys, Rico is already Dark Falz in PSO ep.1 before Pioneer 2 even gets to Ragol

Allahweh
Jul 6, 2012, 12:41 AM
Yes. There is a bonus mission added into the "i" version where you are tra... Look over there!... And now you're on Ragol after the Explosion from the beginning of PSO, but before hunters have been sent down to investigate and then once you have successfully helped Rico with Flowen you are tra... Look over there!... and now you're back in Gurhal.

Yeah. It's there, but it really doesn't say much as to where there is, whether in a different place in space, or another time, or another universe all together.

So, is a solid reason as to what happens there ever given or an explanation of how Ragol ties in with the Gurhal system? I do kind of like the Rykros theory I mentioned, but the problem I have there is Rykros existed in the Algol system name-wise, so I can't think that'd be Ragol. Yet, why does VR data there mimick Ragol?

I would love to say PSU was unrelated but that attempted tie-in leaves me reluctant to do so.

Personally I kind of think PSO2 may be other people from Coral or even other Palmans. They could even come from Ragol 238 years after it was settled for all I know, which would make it in the 3300s AW.

I read an earlier post where I think you talk about Earth. It seems to me that the Earth of the Earthmen us meant to be a fictional future of ours. The ironic thing is that Alissa III heads to its past and brings Dark Force with them, only to corrupt their own world and lead them to building their own similar ship and going to the system the Alissa originated from. Sucks for them, lol.

Allahweh
Jul 6, 2012, 12:55 AM
Check out this page...
The first page and the first post on the 4th page has many scenes translated/posted.

On the 5th page is a time of the events as we see them.
.

By the way...What page? Or did you mean this thread here?

RocSage
Jul 6, 2012, 01:01 AM
By the way...What page? Or did you mean this thread here?

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196263

RocSage
Jul 6, 2012, 01:06 AM
So, is a solid reason as to what happens there ever given or an explanation of how Ragol ties in with the Gurhal system? I do kind of like the Rykros theory I mentioned, but the problem I have there is Rykros existed in the Algol system name-wise, so I can't think that'd be Ragol. Yet, why does VR data there mimick Ragol?

I would love to say PSU was unrelated but that attempted tie-in leaves me reluctant to do so.

Personally I kind of think PSO2 may be other people from Coral or even other Palmans. They could even come from Ragol 238 years after it was settled for all I know, which would make it in the 3300s AW.

I read an earlier post where I think you talk about Earth. It seems to me that the Earth of the Earthmen us meant to be a fictional future of ours. The ironic thing is that Alissa III heads to its past and brings Dark Force with them, only to corrupt their own world and lead them to building their own similar ship and going to the system the Alissa originated from. Sucks for them, lol.

The whole Coral as Earth thing I stand by it, but at the same time I fully recognize that there could be more than 1 earth in a universe, or more than 1 universe in general in the series

Allahweh
Jul 6, 2012, 01:13 AM
The whole Coral as Earth thing I stand by it, but at the same time I fully recognize that there could be more than 1 earth in a universe, or more than 1 universe in general in the series

Battle Star Galactica is a good example of multiple places called Earth existing. I thought though that in PSZ it was called Earth after people forgot it was Coral? If you think this is the same world seen in PSIII, it would have to be that 3 ends in the future when they no longer call it Coral and have rebuilt, though this removes its connection to the Earthmen from PSII...

I would say that the Coral version of Earth may be different from the Earthmen's Earth.

RocSage
Jul 6, 2012, 01:20 AM
Battle Star Galactica is a good example of multiple places called Earth existing. I thought though that in PSZ it was called Earth after people forgot it was Coral? If you think this is the same world seen in PSIII, it would have to be that 3 ends in the future when they no longer call it Coral and have rebuilt, though this removes its connection to the Earthmen from PSII...

I would say that the Coral version of Earth may be different from the Earthmen's Earth.

Nope it doesn't.

Rycross is a transdimensional planet size Spacecraft
There is a black hole in the neighborhood

Either one of these 2 factors can explain weird time/space placement phenomena, le alone together, in close proximity to each other.

Also if you take that AW and AUW is the same then the dates for PS3 reaching earth and PSZ line up which would give a reason for Noah to be constructed even more solidly than any other speculation that i've read before.

Allahweh
Jul 6, 2012, 01:27 AM
Nope it doesn't.

Rycross is a transdimensional planet size Spacecraft
There is a black hole in the neighborhood

Either one of these 2 factors can explain weird time/space placement phenomena, le alone together, in close proximity to each other.

Also if you take that AW and AUW is the same then the dates for PS3 reaching earth and PSZ line up which would give a reason for Noah to be constructed even more solidly than any other speculation that i've read before.

Ok, so let's say that Alissa III travels to Coral/Earth ca 3284 AW, how would that explain humans from a planet called "Earth" arriving in Algol ca 822 AW? That's what I didn't get. Unless they go to Coral/Earth's past, before 822, although if Copto and Coral are the same Palmans would have been there for a while already.

xBladeM6x
Jul 6, 2012, 01:30 AM
No. I do not think that they are connected simply because of the name change of Little Wing vs Arkz.

Perhaps it's a new "GUARDIANS" of the dimension they were headed into, except generations later. :P

RocSage
Jul 6, 2012, 01:39 AM
Ok, so let's say that Alissa III travels to Coral/Earth ca 3284 AW, how would that explain humans from a planet called "Earth" arriving in Algol ca 822 AW? That's what I didn't get. Unless they go to Coral/Earth's past, before 822, although if Copto and Coral are the same Palmans would have been there for a while already.

Alissa III goes through a black hole which means the trip can take any amount of time they want, explaining, if needed the 2000 years after PS2

Noah, traveling back along the path the Alissa III went along also goes through this Black hole.

The problem with this is that one goes in the future and the other to the past... We can explain it in a number of ways though. Palma exploding affect the Alissa III, Rycross affected the Alissa III, Black hole/White hole physics don't drop you in the exact same space-time point all the time...

Which incidentally would also explain the who meteor crashing into Coral and all that in the first place. Because things would be affected by these two factors and as such various points in time would be affecting each other in a non-linear way.

Allahweh
Jul 6, 2012, 09:00 AM
Alissa III goes through a black hole which means the trip can take any amount of time they want, explaining, if needed the 2000 years after PS2

Noah, traveling back along the path the Alissa III went along also goes through this Black hole.

The problem with this is that one goes in the future and the other to the past... We can explain it in a number of ways though. Palma exploding affect the Alissa III, Rycross affected the Alissa III, Black hole/White hole physics don't drop you in the exact same space-time point all the time...

Which incidentally would also explain the who meteor crashing into Coral and all that in the first place. Because things would be affected by these two factors and as such various points in time would be affecting each other in a non-linear way.

The thing about Copto/Coral is that if I recall it was a planet only 1LY from the Algol System and likewise, without FTL travel, Ragol was only a few LY away from it. All of these worlds seem to be within relatively close proximity to each other. The Gurhal System could be an exception to this, although I see that earlier you mention that you think Gurhal is the Algol System at a different point in time.

Regarding those theories you had, I can't see Ragol being a past version of Palma because Ragol seems to be colonized by people from Coral who in turn originated in Palma and likely still recall their Palman roots. On the other hand, I could see Gurhal being a future Algol and Parum being a new version of Palma, but then I'd have to wonder where Ragol was really located and why Gurhal's Rykros has VR memories of it claiming to come from its own surface data.

Any thoughts?

GoldenFalcon
Jul 6, 2012, 09:02 AM
Any thoughts?

The alternate dimension that the Profound Darkness is in or whatever

Kidding, lol

RocSage
Jul 6, 2012, 09:11 AM
The thing about Copto/Coral is that if I recall it was a planet only 1LY from the Algol System and likewise, without FTL travel, Ragol was only a few LY away from it. All of these worlds seem to be within relatively close proximity to each other. The Gurhal System could be an exception to this, although I see that earlier you mention that you think Gurhal is the Algol System at a different point in time.

Regarding those theories you had, I can't see Ragol being a past version of Palma because Ragol seems to be colonized by people from Coral who in turn originated in Palma and likely still recall their Palman roots. On the other hand, I could see Gurhal being a future Algol and Parum being a new version of Palma, but then I'd have to wonder where Ragol was really located and why Gurhal's Rykros has VR memories of it claiming to come from its own surface data.

Any thoughts?

Ragol CAN be Palma in the distant past, especially with the idea that the 2 moons are Moltavia and Dezolis, again 2 things that mess with time-space/dimensions could all sorts of crazy things and history is easy lost in the sands of time.

Ragol however however cannot be Palma in the future because Palma is destroyed in the future.

As far as the VR simulation. Who knows. It could just have been moved there later, and for that to work out at some point Rycross would have had to have been lost to history for several thousand years, far longer than we have been told it would have been possible, to build up the fauna that was on it.

Slidikins
Jul 6, 2012, 09:33 AM
Actually, no.

The sequence of events pretty much plays out like this...

I haven't played PSP2i and most of this thread goes over my head (at work), but going solely on what's in the PSO games, this is not exactly correct.

In 3081-3082 Flowen and company discover the ruins and fight Dark Falz. Everyone but Flowen is killed, Flowen is injured and Dr. Osto starts experimenting on him. (Rico later re-opens the Ruins.) He's Olgo Flow by 3083 after they merged him with the super computer. Olga Flow did not murder everyone at the lab. His body grew out of control and they dumped him in the huge pit (where you fight him, incidentally). The scientists of Gal Da Val were wiped out with the rest of Pioneer 1.

Gal Da Val was mostly secret but in contact with Pioneer 2. Dr. Osto went out of his way to assure P2 that Ragol was safe, after telling Flowen he'd tell them to stay away.

In 3083 Pioneer 2 is launched and the animals start turning hostile. Rico is now investigating, going over pretty much the same path Flowen did earlier. An immaterial Falz is luring her in at this point, and traps her in the ruins turning her into what we all know as Dark Falz (in PSO). You can follow her progress here through her capsules. This is where the PSP2i crew arrives?

The game starts in 3084 with the explosion that wipes out Pioneer 1. Rico is already Falz at this point, not "still investigating." Everyone died except Flowen (Olga Flow), Rico (Dark Falz), and the AIs Vol Opt and Calus.

After Falz is defeated, Flowen senses the death of Falz/Rico and starts to reach out to Pioneer 2. He's half AI, so it's feasible. As a result, you hunt him down and kill him, which was what he wanted.

tl;dr PSP2i is a different timeline that seems to ignore all the facts.

Infiniteque
Jul 6, 2012, 09:47 AM
Excellent topic.

RocSage
Jul 6, 2012, 09:58 AM
I haven't played PSP2i and most of this thread goes over my head (at work), but going solely on what's in the PSO games, this is not exactly correct.

In 3081-3082 Flowen and company discover the ruins and fight Dark Falz. Everyone but Flowen is killed, Flowen is injured and Dr. Osto starts experimenting on him. (Rico later re-opens the Ruins.) He's Olgo Flow by 3083 after they merged him with the super computer. Olga Flow did not murder everyone at the lab. His body grew out of control and they dumped him in the huge pit (where you fight him, incidentally). The scientists of Gal Da Val were wiped out with the rest of Pioneer 1.

Gal Da Val was mostly secret but in contact with Pioneer 2. Dr. Osto went out of his way to assure P2 that Ragol was safe, after telling Flowen he'd tell them to stay away.

In 3083 Pioneer 2 is launched and the animals start turning hostile. Rico is now investigating, going over pretty much the same path Flowen did earlier. An immaterial Falz is luring her in at this point, and traps her in the ruins turning her into what we all know as Dark Falz (in PSO). You can follow her progress here through her capsules. This is where the PSP2i crew arrives?

The game starts in 3084 with the explosion that wipes out Pioneer 1. Rico is already Falz at this point, not "still investigating." Everyone died except Flowen (Olga Flow), Rico (Dark Falz), and the AIs Vol Opt and Calus.

After Falz is defeated, Flowen senses the death of Falz/Rico and starts to reach out to Pioneer 2. He's half AI, so it's feasible. As a result, you hunt him down and kill him, which was what he wanted.

tl;dr PSP2i is a different timeline that seems to ignore all the facts.

If that's the case then I was wrong. I don't remember them stating when they discovered ruins and they started experimenting on Flowen.

However, that doesn't make this leading to an alternate timeline. It just places the PSP2i crossover during the point slightly after Flowen and crew entered the ruins in 3081-2.

There could also be two sets of recorded messages, both left on the ground so that there are recorded messages from Rico's first journey into the Ruins and Rico's second journey into it.

NoiseHERO
Jul 6, 2012, 10:48 AM
Is all of this really true or is it only possibly true by linking vague information and coincidences and the story really isn't that deep and you're possibly putting more thought into it than SEGA themselves otherwise we'd officially know most of this speculation and theories if they were true... :0

If no real connections between all games are found somewhere in PSO2. Then any connections really are just bits and pieces of scattered fanservice and incomplete stories. So the answer to this thread can't be a full no. But it's forever stuck in a "you can't say for sure, and I'd be surprised if the actual game developers themselves could tell you." D:


*cough*zelda timeline*cough*

Link1275
Jul 6, 2012, 10:58 AM
I haven't played PSP2i and most of this thread goes over my head (at work), but going solely on what's in the PSO games, this is not exactly correct.

In 3081-3082 Flowen and company discover the ruins and fight Dark Falz. Everyone but Flowen is killed, Flowen is injured and Dr. Osto starts experimenting on him. (Rico later re-opens the Ruins.) He's Olgo Flow by 3083 after they merged him with the super computer. Olga Flow did not murder everyone at the lab. His body grew out of control and they dumped him in the huge pit (where you fight him, incidentally). The scientists of Gal Da Val were wiped out with the rest of Pioneer 1.

Gal Da Val was mostly secret but in contact with Pioneer 2. Dr. Osto went out of his way to assure P2 that Ragol was safe, after telling Flowen he'd tell them to stay away.

In 3083 Pioneer 2 is launched and the animals start turning hostile. Rico is now investigating, going over pretty much the same path Flowen did earlier. An immaterial Falz is luring her in at this point, and traps her in the ruins turning her into what we all know as Dark Falz (in PSO). You can follow her progress here through her capsules. This is where the PSP2i crew arrives?

The game starts in 3084 with the explosion that wipes out Pioneer 1. Rico is already Falz at this point, not "still investigating." Everyone died except Flowen (Olga Flow), Rico (Dark Falz), and the AIs Vol Opt and Calus.

After Falz is defeated, Flowen senses the death of Falz/Rico and starts to reach out to Pioneer 2. He's half AI, so it's feasible. As a result, you hunt him down and kill him, which was what he wanted.

tl;dr PSP2i is a different timeline that seems to ignore all the facts.
You have it almost 100% correct. Falz hadn't lured Rico into the ruins until after the explosion, for two reasons 1.) the Falz in the opening video is incorporeal still, and 2.) Rico mentions the explosion in a message capsule in Forest.




There could also be two sets of recorded messages, both left on the ground so that there are recorded messages from Rico's first journey into the Ruins and Rico's second journey into it.
What are you talking about?! Rico only had one journey into the Ruins!

Omega-z
Jul 6, 2012, 11:52 AM
Link1275 - Slidikins has it right Rico was Falz before Pioneer 2 reached Ragol and the explosion she had was form the native animal's attacking the Centarl Dome. That info was all part of the mission Fire Swirl (which is a back in time mission ) where you fight off the animal's where there's fire at the Centarl Dome and you save one of Dr. Osto assistants which is also the father to the girl in the baby Hidabear mission. Also the capsules are only temporary message holder's going off from the other side quest's. Also too they where corrupted in the original but not in the PSp2i version.

that too the meaning of the distant star part still could have two referenced out come's based on the differences between the two.

And if you Compare Slidikins's notes to DeviFoxx's Translation's of PSp2i then they are different at a certain point of time. Like Mike and others said PSO is Broks lol.

Right now the most likely group to be the Arkc's is from the PSU period since they are doing just what these people are doing, But it still doesn't mean it's them. One thing to note is that in PSO2 they aren't in any one place (most likely in deep space) they are traveling between different point's in space to get to the three planet's ( likely using Sub-space to jump space but not time .......that's Shino's job, it sound's like they didn't get it just right yet. )

What I would really like to know is who are the three Hero's that the two newman gal's referred too (form PSO2). They would help to figure out where they come form unless the hero's are from the 10 year accident in PSO2.

Oh, Capto and Coral are not the same but Earth and Coral are. and you can place all of this in a real star chart too and fits with there placing. And there is Sub-space jumps and time travel or both at times. And realize that Falz is the reason for it to happen in the first place.

RocSage
Jul 6, 2012, 05:59 PM
You have it almost 100% correct. Falz hadn't lured Rico into the ruins until after the explosion, for two reasons 1.) the Falz in the opening video is incorporeal still, and 2.) Rico mentions the explosion in a message capsule in Forest.



What are you talking about?! Rico only had one journey into the Ruins!

If then statement. If Slidikins is right then Rico made two journeys into the Ruins. It is a s simple as that.

Omega-z
Jul 6, 2012, 07:04 PM
Actually, Once in Original PSO. Twice in PSp2i, First time with the two gal's of PSp2i then again with Flowen to kill Falz.

RocSage
Jul 6, 2012, 08:08 PM
Actually, Once in Original PSO. Twice in PSp2i, First time with the two gal's of PSp2i
yes...



then again with Flowen to kill Falz.

Stop making stuff up.
This never happens.
Falz as a physical being doesn't exist until P2 arrives.
Flowen when P2 arrives is infected and presumed dead.
Rico starts her second journey after P2 arrives, or at the very least doesn't reach the Falz chamber until after P2 arrives.

Quadocky
Jul 6, 2012, 09:39 PM
I like all the info here. I just thought PSO referenced the story of PS2 and PS3 and that was all.

The main thing being that Dark Falz was sealed on a ship and sent to Ragol.

Xenoguner
Jul 6, 2012, 11:24 PM
yes...



Stop making stuff up.
This never happens.
Falz as a physical being doesn't exist until P2 arrives.
Flowen when P2 arrives is infected and presumed dead.
Rico starts her second journey after P2 arrives, or at the very least doesn't reach the Falz chamber until after P2 arrives.

Im pretty sure he's talking about the PSP2i path, where Rico and Flowen are saved because of the girls' intervening. According to that translation provided before of PSP2i, both Flowen and Rico, along with every hunter on P2 (as stated on Rico herself) had a hand in killing Falz.

What im wondering from all this bickering, is which path is considered "canon" or not. Seems like some wanna cling to the ideology that psp2i's segment never happened. Shed some light on whats going on? I'm really interested in whats real or not.

RocSage
Jul 7, 2012, 01:07 AM
Im pretty sure he's talking about the PSP2i path, where Rico and Flowen are saved because of the girls' intervening. According to that translation provided before of PSP2i, both Flowen and Rico, along with every hunter on P2 (as stated on Rico herself) had a hand in killing Falz.

What im wondering from all this bickering, is which path is considered "canon" or not. Seems like some wanna cling to the ideology that psp2i's segment never happened. Shed some light on whats going on? I'm really interested in whats real or not.

It's a misinterpretation of what is being said.

Here are a few passage that are probably being referred to.
passage 1
Wait one second. I have something that needs to be done. Since the explosion at the Central Dome still remains a mystery, there are traces that the Army came into these Ruins. The Governmental Research Institutes have shown signs of military activity down here. Before I came to investigate this planet, I also received a report that my Mentor had died, but even I don't know whether or not that's true. Perhaps just beyond these Ruins lie the keys to solving all of these mysteries.

Passage 2
Master Flowen and I… and the HUNTERS are going to go try and investigate the inside of the Ruins. I think there are some mysteries that still lie there. Some kind of incident happened on Ragol. That’s for sure. But now I’m not alone. I think I’ll wait for my Master to recover, and I’ll go call on the HUNTERS. I know that if everyone puts their power together as one, then you'll be invincible against any ordeal that comes your way.

Passage 3
A FEW MONTHS LATER…
Flowen: Dark Falz has been vanquished. It's... all over now.
Rico: Yes. Because everyone in HUNTERS inclined their ears to our voices. We aren't the only heroes. Each and every person here on Ragol is a hero. I came to understand that through this battle. I believe that since we've overcome this crisis, any difficulties we have from here on out will be fine.



Passage 1 indicates that there has been going on with the government. The government that Flowen would have been working with and likely was the head of that investigation, which is why he is now Olga Flow or whatever you want to call him in PSP2i

Passage 2 refers to Hunters, yes, but Hunters were formed by Rico and existed on P1, therefor at the end of PSP2i Pioneer 1 was either not destroyed or not known to be destroyed by Rico. It likely during this period that Flowen got turned into Olga Flow and Rico to Dark Falz.

Passage 3 interestingly takes place between Rico and Flowen with a picture of the Ruins garden Obelisk which implies they are both actually dead in the scene and they are talking to each other as spirits. You can also take the interpretation that both Rico and Flowen survive the events of Ep1&2 and we just didn't see them in game for whatever reason. Either way it is spoken as one of the two, not that this is different timeline.

In other words, the timeline is in tact, but there is a bit of incongruity of the timeline as far as when it happened and there is still the question of whether Flowen and Rico actually survived or not, but those are the same type of problems that exist in all PS games so meh.

Disastorm
Jul 7, 2012, 01:08 AM
I dont know much about any of the phantasy star games other than online and the single player of universe. I was thinking that since this game is called pso2 that there would be alot of references to storyline related to PSO? Do you think this game will have some version of Ragol at some point and maybe even a variant of the Dark Falz entity? Because right now it seems pretty random just people going to random planets and killing stuff. The only thing is that all the planets have those evil spider things warping in.

RocSage
Jul 7, 2012, 02:41 AM
I dont know much about any of the phantasy star games other than online and the single player of universe. I was thinking that since this game is called pso2 that there would be alot of references to storyline related to PSO? Do you think this game will have some version of Ragol at some point and maybe even a variant of the Dark Falz entity? Because right now it seems pretty random just people going to random planets and killing stuff. The only thing is that all the planets have those evil spider things warping in.

Something happened 10 years ago in PSO2 and since then Darkers have been appearing.

Darkers are the same as the SEED is PSU and the Germ and whatever else you want to call it.

Ragol might be the home world of the Oracle Fleet (which is the ships you, as ARKS, are on)

Omega-z
Jul 7, 2012, 03:00 AM
:nono:

Xenoguner
Jul 7, 2012, 03:03 AM
:nono:

Its ok, man. I feel ya *pats*

RocSage
Jul 7, 2012, 03:18 AM
:nono:

Since I can predict what you are thinking...

No I do not mean the same thing you mean
Passage 2 states that Flowen is not well and needs to recover. We do not have any idea what happens in his story after this point. Presumably he become Olga Flow and Rico becomes Dark Falz.

And no I do not mean that they survive to fight Dark Falz, I am talking about after we have defeated them both in the game. We see them, presumably their spirit come from the bosses. This tied with what happens in PSP2i shows that people can survive that form thus they could actually be still alive after the events of PSO. OR much more likely is that the scene is PSP2i is just a closure scene that is common where spirits talk to each other saying "Now that x is done we can rest"

All of it is consistent with PSO.

GCoffee
Jul 7, 2012, 04:18 AM
Oh wonder. So even that terrible fanservice from psp2i ignores the fact Flowen and the army visited the ruins to kill Flaz long before Rico did so that and that Flowen turned into Olga Flow before all of the Ep. 1 stuff even happens.

And please stop talking about the fates of Falz and Olga if you still did not inform yourself about Ep. 3, this time I am too lazy to explain, sheesh. D;

RocSage
Jul 7, 2012, 06:55 AM
Oh wonder. So even that terrible fanservice from psp2i ignores the fact Flowen and the army visited the ruins to kill Flaz long before Rico did so that and that Flowen turned into Olga Flow before all of the Ep. 1 stuff even happens.

And please stop talking about the fates of Falz and Olga if you still did not inform yourself about Ep. 3, this time I am too lazy to explain, sheesh. D;

It would be nice if you guys didn't make stuff up and decide that is how it is.
PSP2i DOESN'T ignore any of PSO, Ep1, 2, 3, or 4.
If you paid attention to what I said you'd see that, while yes, I know very little of Ep3, I did point out that the scene in PSP2i could be read as, get this, 2 spirits having a chat and this would then be confirmed by Ep3.

Again, nothing of the timeline is altered by the PSP2i addition.

King_Rappy
Jul 7, 2012, 08:00 AM
I've looked at a lot of game scripts and supplementary materials (websites, art books, fan books, etc) over the years and found out some things that apparently aren't common knowledge, judging by this thread. I'll try and set some things straight. But first of all...

The PSO quest in PSP2i is as canon as any of the game magazine quests or Colonel Sanders. It's bonus fan service, a sort of "what if" situation. It directly contradicts PSO's original plot by having others be there with Rico when this was not the case. Several of Rico's messages in Ep1 point this out. Additionally, Episode 2 is stated to take place several months after the "defeat" of Dark Falz, and at that point Flowen is still somewhat lucid until just before you reach him. And that's not to mention Episode 3... (the "Spirits talking" thing you mentioned doesn't exactly work that well without a lot of creative interpretation, sorry RocSage...) The PSO references in PSU are explained as being interdimensional in nature, but also don't seem to have much of a bearing on the plot aside from "hey, remember PSO?"

In short, NOTHING IN THE PSU UNIVERSE IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE ORIGINAL UNIVERSE. It has been stated by Sega that the two are separate as well.

That said, there IS a definite connection between the original series and the PSO games.
The ship in the ruins houses the Dark Falz from PSIII. It's explicitly stated in a PSO art book. Wren was even going to appear there but was cut for time.

As for Coral, it's not our Earth. It's called "the earth" (non-proper noun) by the Coralians who have been driven underground and forgotten their heritage in PS0, but its name is Coral and its moon's name is Arca. Earth is in the same universe, though, judging by the original series. PS0 takes place many years after PSO, and thus many years after the original series, where Earth wasn't exactly the most hospitable place.

On the subject of Dark Falz: The PSIII/PSO Dark Falz was destroyed and survived as the Germ in Episode 3 with the intent of reforming, but it was ultimately exterminated. The only other ways Dark Falz(s) have been killed in the PS continuity is with Nei/Laconian weapons or Elysion.
There is more than one Dark Falz, but they are all created from a portion of the hatred of the Profound Darkness. Since the Profound Darkness was defeated, no more could be created.
But guess what may not be completely dead?

That's right.

Cue PSO2. The reveal teaser for PSO2 had a lot of text floating around, some of which related to gameplay and some of which related to the story and setting. Stuff about ORACL, stuff interacting with primeval cultures (as in Amduscia's dragon tribe and the Lilipas), a girl in eternal despair (Motoi?)... But most importantly there were references to the original series. Not PSO or PSU, but the genesis games. "Why has the Great Light left us?" "Stirrings of the Profound Darkness" "Enraged Dark Falz" "Pure Dark Falz" "Sealed Dark Falz" "The unseen result of the great showdown of the past"

Yeah, I think it's safe to say that PSO2 is part of the Algol/Ragol universe. The overlap between the premises of Eternal Planets and PSO2 is superficial at best.


SO IN SHORT: PSU is seperate dimension and/or continuity, everything else isn't, Coral isn't Earth, and Ragol isn't part of the Algol system. That's the conclusion drawn from what Sega and the games themselves have said, without relying on speculation.
Feel free to continue speculating though!



This isn't really related but it blew my mind and I feel the need to post it somewhere: Algol, Ragol, Gurhal, and ORACL are all anagrams of a sort. I thought it was my imagination at first but it seems to be the consensus in the Japanese fan community as well.

How? Well... The lack of l/r in Japanese sort of messed things up, but if you write Ragol as Lagol it makes more sense. Syllables starting with a G-sound consonant use the same characters as those with a K-sound but with ten-ten (accent marks), so removing them from Ragol gives you Rakol/Racol, which then becomes ORACL. Gurhal... Well, it's kinda different. But Al Ghul is the origin of the name Algol and was also used to refer to the star, and that can be rearranged to make Gulhal. So there's that.

Ok, done. Continue your lives.

RocSage
Jul 7, 2012, 09:38 AM
I've looked at a lot of game scripts and supplementary materials (websites, art books, fan books, etc) over the years and found out some things that apparently aren't common knowledge, judging by this thread. I'll try and set some things straight. But first of all...

The PSO quest in PSP2i is as canon as any of the game magazine quests or Colonel Sanders. It's bonus fan service, a sort of "what if" situation. It directly contradicts PSO's original plot by having others be there with Rico when this was not the case. Several of Rico's messages in Ep1 point this out. Additionally, Episode 2 is stated to take place several months after the "defeat" of Dark Falz, and at that point Flowen is still somewhat lucid until just before you reach him. And that's not to mention Episode 3... (the "Spirits talking" thing you mentioned doesn't exactly work that well without a lot of creative interpretation, sorry RocSage...) The PSO references in PSU are explained as being interdimensional in nature, but also don't seem to have much of a bearing on the plot aside from "hey, remember PSO?"

In short, NOTHING IN THE PSU UNIVERSE IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE ORIGINAL UNIVERSE. It has been stated by Sega that the two are separate as well.


This is generally what I think, but the connection can be made. Timeline wise PSU stuff doesn't quite fit into the PSO stuff, but there are explanations that can be used for those, that don't at all mes up the PSO timeline



That said, there IS a definite connection between the original series and the PSO games.
The ship in the ruins houses the Dark Falz from PSIII. It's explicitly stated in a PSO art book. Wren was even going to appear there but was cut for time.


*cough* it just happens that the Ark in PSU is of the exact same design of the Ruins ship of PSO.



As for Coral, it's not our Earth. It's called "the earth" (non-proper noun) by the Coralians who have been driven underground and forgotten their heritage in PS0, but its name is Coral and its moon's name is Arca. Earth is in the same universe, though, judging by the original series. PS0 takes place many years after PSO, and thus many years after the original series, where Earth wasn't exactly the most hospitable place.


Ummm yeah. The Coralians after the great blank call the planet Earth and the moon the Moon. That is what they would have called it when the Palmans would have arrived and get this... It is indeed an inhospitable place.

There is more than enough evidence to connect it like that. It may not be the case, but it is possible.



On the subject of Dark Falz: The PSIII/PSO Dark Falz was destroyed and survived as the Germ in Episode 3 with the intent of reforming, but it was ultimately exterminated. The only other ways Dark Falz(s) have been killed in the PS continuity is with Nei/Laconian weapons or Elysion.
There is more than one Dark Falz, but they are all created from a portion of the hatred of the Profound Darkness. Since the Profound Darkness was defeated, no more could be created.
But guess what may not be completely dead?


Yes. The Profound Darkness has been established as half of an ancient civilization and the various Falz creatures, darkers, germs, SEEDS, are simply members of that civilization, and given the way they reproduce it only takes one of them to exist for them to carry on. Given that they were an interstellar civilization or perhaps even an intergalactic one it wouldn't be all that unexpected that it would be nearly impossible to eliminate.



Yeah, I think it's safe to say that PSO2 is part of the Algol/Ragol universe. The overlap between the premises of Eternal Planets and PSO2 is superficial at best.


SO IN SHORT: PSU is seperate dimension and/or continuity, everything else isn't, Coral isn't Earth, and Ragol isn't part of the Algol system. That's the conclusion drawn from what Sega and the games themselves have said, without relying on speculation.
Feel free to continue speculating though!


Probably, It possible with the evidence, Not necessarily. There are ways that the 2nd two are possible. And while I don't say it is absolutely the case it is certainly the case that it isn't out of the question and the information leads towards it in the first case, and would be pretty interesting in the second, but it hasn't got any baring on any story telling.




This isn't really related but it blew my mind and I feel the need to post it somewhere: Algol, Ragol, Gurhal, and ORACL are all anagrams of a sort. I thought it was my imagination at first but it seems to be the consensus in the Japanese fan community as well.

How? Well... The lack of l/r in Japanese sort of messed things up, but if you write Ragol as Lagol it makes more sense. Syllables starting with a G-sound consonant use the same characters as those with a K-sound but with ten-ten (accent marks), so removing them from Ragol gives you Rakol/Racol, which then becomes ORACL. Gurhal... Well, it's kinda different. But Al Ghul is the origin of the name Algol and was also used to refer to the star, and that can be rearranged to make Gulhal. So there's that.

Ok, done. Continue your lives.


Yeah... But you should go r instead of l

GCoffee
Jul 7, 2012, 10:44 AM
the scene in PSP2i could be read as, get this, 2 spirits having a chat and this would then be confirmed by Ep3.

Where would that be confirmed? Rico and Flowen did not communicate like that. After both of them were defeated, they still were not set free; instead, the two hosts manipulated the respective parasite to engulf in a fight and then finally destroy each other. The result of the clash was the birth of the Amplum Umbra and the person Endu. Only Endu was capable of seeing Rico's spirit afterwards, and only once.

Flowen was infected with D-Cells during a fight between Pioneer I and Dark Falz private army, a fight which took place long before the explosion incident, a fact we know for the reason that a lot of time passed before Flowen agreed to be experimented on and the necessary facilities were built. We do not actually know when he fully transformed into Olga Flowen, but personally I tend to believe also before the explosion incident, since Flowen's records indicate the parasite could not be controlled from the very beginning of the research, for which reason he was fused with the computer Olga.

That terrible fanserice from PSP2i aside, I think the most plausible connection to make with PSO would be that the ancients ship that flew away at the end of the game and has Falz sealed inside is the very same one buried on Ragol. It is true that they probably planned on connecting PSO with the old genesis games through PSIII, but the connection was NEVER made in the end, for which reason this theory of mine could very well still be applied. It is up to SEGA to tie up the loose ends, though, but I doubt they ever will.

RocSage
Jul 7, 2012, 11:05 AM
Stuffs

The Ep3 confirmation is in that they exist in spirit form and after ep2 they may have had that conversation before they realized bad were going to happen and all that. The only real problem is the "few months" issue which could be ignored.

Of course it doesn't really matter because in the end it could just as well be a parallel universe. which just adds one more universe to deal with in the PS story.

Omega-z
Jul 7, 2012, 11:06 AM
King_Rappy - is correct that the teaser story was and indeed "Fan Service" for those who wanted Flowen and Rico to live. Apparently form what I heard it was design to be used both way's being alive or dead. But I think this lead to more confusion because of Sega "Fan Service". Even tho some way's are harder to follow or don't follow at all. there are three forms of the story 1.) Everything is one timeline same as RocSage is saying. 2.) Two different timeline's all together. 3.) A split within the same time being both dead and alive.

The Spaceship Noah is the ship that connect's the classic's to PSO. The Alisa III thoery had been dropped, Wren being cut (that there would be no way to explain how he got there unless it had a different story line with him in PSII) is the best thing they had done since it would of destory'd any chance of bringing PSIII and PSIV together. Which I think was just more "Fan Service", Was it the book that had Wren and Meiu with there Romji name's side by side?

Oh that Ship in PSp2i was built before Algol was even thought of. Sense it was thousand's/Million's of year's before them. Since the ship was built by Wynarl for the sole purpose to seal King Kumhan and Dulk Falz in the same ship. Now there build's are some what similar but they aren't too. So going off what you said before in another thread RocSage that the tech has the same origin but the out come can be very close to the same but different at the as time.

RocSage - is correct here with Coral and Earth the game directly uses the name as part of it's history, King_Rappy I think your thinking of Capto and yes your right there that they aren't the same.

Dulk Falz form PSIII live's a lot longer then that through out the Franchise even after being defeated for the most part it's the same one but not always or there isn't even one at all.

Now this part I was thinking the same with Algol had a possible connection. I think that connection might be with Shino the time traveler sense she wear's the Algolian crest. So, Shino from the classic's possibly then PSU with PSp2i to connect PSO and possibly more with PSO2? just a thought.

And the rest I knew all ready with the R/L if you think about it, It could fit with the Franchise's history too.

RocSage
Jul 7, 2012, 11:39 AM
I had an idea just a minute ago...

The "history" of the PS universe is that there once was a great civilization that at some point split apart and started warring with each other. 1 Became the Profound Darkness and the other the Great Light.

This history is told, as far as I know in all PS games, save 1, and an altered version in PSZ...
What if the Great Civilization is the "Coralian" civilization. The Coral Civilization splits in two. Presumably, both sides continue to advance after the split and both would pretty quickly be on even grounds and they would find that they are close together.

Assuming that AP means "After Pioneer" that would place PSO2 238 years after PSO and 38 years after PSZ. And assuming that Coral is messed up it is not unreasonable to think that they would turn Coral into that Huge spherical ship thing shown at the beginning of PSO2's intro briefly, and that then could also explain Rycross's appearance in PSU and the VR simulation, especially since we are seeing Oracle using Transdimensional FTL drives.

I'm just thinking out loud. Sounds interesting but i doubt it.


Also now debate how Shining Force connects with Phantasy Star.

Omega-z
Jul 7, 2012, 12:30 PM
I had similar thought's, at first was thinking after Alisa III had come to Earth the Earth people caused the rift between light and dark, But dropped it sense there's not much to back this up.
I Think the War of the Great Light and the Profound Darkness is actually the Ancient's and the SEED of PSU sense there is a lot of connecting history and event's to support this idea and using PSU as a pre-courser to the classic's which could be explained ( Theory/Cannon wise ) to bridge them.

what AP's meaning is still unknown and could be anything at the moment After Planets/Parum/Palma/Pioneer even Arkc Placement or Allied Planets (this last one could be possible too with the Arkc say the darker's are the enemy to everyone in the Universe and everyone everywhere and the game's idea to add more planet's over time) Thoughts?

Shining Force hmmmm.....I think the series is it's own, but does have common's thing between the two. If it did have a connection I would say between PSU and the classic's but closer to the classic's time frame, before they started or one of the World ship plot's with the people starting over perhaps?

RocSage
Jul 7, 2012, 12:43 PM
I Think the War of the Great Light and the Profound Darkness is actually the Ancient's and the SEED of PSU sense there is a lot of connecting history and event's to support this idea and using PSU as a pre-courser to the classic's which could be explained ( Theory/Cannon wise ) to bridge them.


Yes. That is Obvious. However that doesn't mean they originated on those planets. Each "seal" could be just one battle won by the Great Light.



what AP's meaning is still unknown and could be anything at the moment After Planets/Parum/Palma/Pioneer even Arkc Placement or Allied Planets (this last one could be possible too with the Arkc say the darker's are the enemy to everyone in the Universe and everyone everywhere and the game's idea to add more planet's over time) Thoughts?


Hadn't thought of Allied Planets but it would fit in with the schema...



Shining Force hmmmm.....I think the series is it's own, but does have common's thing between the two. If it did have a connection I would say between PSU and the classic's but closer to the classic's time frame, before they started or one of the World ship plot's with the people starting over perhaps?

It could be Shining force is pre-Space travel era of Palma.

That brings up a point that is never discussed, pre-space travel era is hardly ever talked about in PS.

Quadocky
Jul 7, 2012, 03:19 PM
Huh I never knew that Dark Falz was so important. I always thought it was just the go to bad guy which ties into the whole idea that there is an abstract evil in the universe. Not so much an actual character.

RocSage
Jul 7, 2012, 07:48 PM
Huh I never knew that Dark Falz was so important. I always thought it was just the go to bad guy which ties into the whole idea that there is an abstract evil in the universe. Not so much an actual character.

Who, but the villain would, be important?

King_Rappy
Jul 7, 2012, 11:39 PM
This is generally what I think, but the connection can be made. Timeline wise PSU stuff doesn't quite fit into the PSO stuff, but there are explanations that can be used for those, that don't at all mes up the PSO timeline
Well yes, but most of those exceptions require a lot of assumptions to work properly.



*cough* it just happens that the Ark in PSU is of the exact same design of the Ruins ship of PSO.

Actually it's not! The ark Crowley in PSPi is shaped like Pioneer 2 as both a reference to that game and the PSO 10th anniversary symbol that PSP2i was adorned with.


Ummm yeah. The Coralians after the great blank call the planet Earth and the moon the Moon. That is what they would have called it when the Palmans would have arrived and get this... It is indeed an inhospitable place.

There is more than enough evidence to connect it like that. It may not be the case, but it is possible.
I think the confusion here comes from the English language. PS0's refers to earth as in a big ball of earth while the other is the planet's name. The writer of PS0's story says in the game's art book that he wanted to make a story where people call their planet the earth because they don't remember it's real name (地球 can mean "planet" as well as Earth) as in the anime "Combat Mecha Xabungle." I haven't seen it but that's what the book says.
Also if it was the same Earth and the Palmans arrived there after PS0 the geography and the moon would be different. Since PS0 take place after PSO which takes place after PSII where Earth has been destroyed for a while... It wouldn't make sense for them to be the same planet.



Yes. The Profound Darkness has been established as half of an ancient civilization and the various Falz creatures, darkers, germs, SEEDS, are simply members of that civilization, and given the way they reproduce it only takes one of them to exist for them to carry on. Given that they were an interstellar civilization or perhaps even an intergalactic one it wouldn't be all that unexpected that it would be nearly impossible to eliminate.

The Profound Darkness was a spiritual being though wasn't it? Not a civilization in the vein of PSU's ancients. I see what you're saying though.



Yeah... But you should go r instead of l
Technically the sound we romanize as "r" in Japanese is more of a cross between L and R. Making (and recognizing) R sounds is almost as difficult for the Japanese as making L sounds.


The Spaceship Noah is the ship that connect's the classic's to PSO. The Alisa III thoery had been dropped, Wren being cut (that there would be no way to explain how he got there unless it had a different story line with him in PSII) is the best thing they had done since it would of destory'd any chance of bringing PSIII and PSIV together. Which I think was just more "Fan Service", Was it the book that had Wren and Meiu with there Romji name's side by side?
If you mean the art book I was talking about, it's the Book of Hunters, and only has PSO concept art of Wren and the name Searen TYPE 386 next to it with a description on his planned inclusion and how he was different from PSO's androids technologically.
Also, looking through it again there's a section explaining the Ragol anagram, and shows Algol written in English as "ARGOL." Huh. Wonder how I missed that before...

The book that links PSIII to PSO is the PSO Episode III and Blue Burst art book. However, upon reading it again it only says that the most popular theory of connected series is that one of the Palman world ships arrived at Ragol. It mentions that Muut Ditts Poum likely equals Motavia Dezoris and Palma, but also ackgnowledges that the Gurhal system planets are similar. So it looks like Sega is intentionally keeping the canon vague so the fans have something to speculate about.

That being said, PSO2's trailer makes direct references to the Great Light and Profound Darkness, which only existed in the Algol system. They even use the same kanji.



RocSage - is correct here with Coral and Earth the game directly uses the name as part of it's history, King_Rappy I think your thinking of Capto and yes your right there that they aren't the same.
Nah, I meant Coral. See above.

Quadocky
Jul 7, 2012, 11:44 PM
Who, but the villain would, be important?
Well I mean as in that Dark Falz is not so much a Villain as the embodiment of Evil itself.