Force and Ranger Balancing [Archive]

MizaR

Jun 17, 2012, 01:18 AM

After playing both Races I definitely feel that Force is the weaker of the two I'll give reasons as to why.

Force when using staff lets you fire 3-4 shots photo arts "PP" after that your PP has run out it takes about 10-12 secs before it replenishes, so you are then forced to run at the enemy and attack it with your staff. The problem with this is a hunter can do this job far better he has more health and higher attacks. Then to avoid damage you must run away use mana and then do it all over again.

Force does however have another weapon (name of which escapes me) it throws cards at them, it typically does less damage but lets you cast from a safe distance once your mana "PP" has run out. Unfortunately besides this being weaker you must stand still while firing Photon arts and non Photon arts.

Now compare this to Ranger He can move freely when firing with both normal shots and PP shots and seems to do just as much damage. In fact I would say more because his attack rate is so much faster While Force does big damage numbers the ranger is doing slightly less but 2X faster.

I suggest:

Staff:
Letting the force chose between a melee attack and a ranged attack for staffs when using non PP attacks, but making him stand still while casting this ranged non PP attack as it does higher damage compared to the weapon that throws cards

Card:
When using the weaker weapon that throws cards, letting the force move freely when casting non PP skills and PP skills.

Coatl

Jun 17, 2012, 01:26 AM

Truthly I've thought about this recently.
The only thing that could make the Force class work is with their PP tree skill being upgraded.
Without it, it's not fun playing force. :c

MizaR

Jun 17, 2012, 01:34 AM

Agreed its actually frustrating your PP runs out so fast and then your left attacking with your staff with low damage and getting owned with your tiny health pool. Meanwhile Ranger is sitting back whaling on them with no worries

MAXrobo

Jun 17, 2012, 01:46 AM

I agree that forces seem a little under powered (and personally aren't that fun) but I found a fun way to play them with my FOcast that is pretty effective.
basically it is support battle teching. I just jump into crowds of enemys and quick cast (not charged) RAbarta as fast as i can until im out of PP. that will ether freese anything in the area or hit stun them enough for me to beat them with my rod. then just keep the RAbarta blizzard going whenever you get enough PP for another cast. plus because your already close up, resta and shifa are a lot easier to use on teammates.
It might only work with a CAST because they have higher HP and attack power, but it sure is fun!

Vashyron

Jun 17, 2012, 01:56 AM

For the PP problem you can use shoot things with a Gunslash to regain PP.

Better than running in and hitting things with your Rod.

BBYiffo

Jun 17, 2012, 02:48 AM

It is true that when you do perfect attacks with the gunslash/staff/talis you get some more PP back then normal. There is a PP passive skill that allows you to regain PP while charging your spells.

To be honest about every skill/PA seems to stop you in place.

I do tend to use Gunslash while fighting things on my own or until I find a group of monsters that I should start using magic again. Though I could also just put the magic on my 1-5 hotkeys and just do it while holding my gunslash. (Mainly do that for healing and buffing).
I normally set a weapon slot with full range magic. The other for full near me AOE damage. Then of course the gunslash which I normally keep the launch combo on 1 and change 2 and 3 to the shoot the grenade dodge combo.

We seem to be the only class that has to switch weapons to gain PP back quickly. Unless you kept the 1st slot clean so you can use the weapon's melee or range attack. Talis surprisingly pierces through enemies to attack the ones behind making it really nice to regain PP if you don't want to use the gunslash. The staff does normally have higher Tech I believe. However it doesn't really make enough to make one huge difference. If I can still make my Talis+ 5-50 however high it goes it makes using the staff seem less likely...

Maybe there's a passive skill in the tree that makes it cost less. That would be nice but I hate having to focus on a specific element when I need to change constantly. Making the skill tree more of a hassle since they force you to learn elements first in Pro-OBT unlike CBT. (Why the tree revision?) I just want to go with increase PP, PP charge, increase charge up damage(Charge Advance?), and the active skill Photon Flare.
It would be nice if a uncharge magic attack takes less PP, if it does take less I rarely noticed. It seems to just take the same cost either way.
Photon Flare doesn't seem to help much even though it's supposively gives you more TEC at the price of a "fraction" of your hp. Could increase damage by a small sum but the risk is being more of a glass cannon then you already are.

Anyway it would be nice if they make it easier to replace slot 1 with the melee attack again. I just hit the gear icon making guesses at the function.

I just wish the first thing a Tec base MAG does instead of making PP generate faster to actually attack and do some damage! The PP generation doesn't actually do anything if you're still attacking. Making that Photon Blast just about useless. (Or atleast to me. If I'm doing it wrong I'll like to hear it).

soulpimpwizzurd

Jun 17, 2012, 02:53 AM

couldn't you just spam all of your spells, run out of pp, and then flee while shooting at enemies with gunslash to recover PP? i still agree overall though. force seems a little gimped. not too much but still gimped. it's barrels of fun though.

Arande

Jun 17, 2012, 02:53 AM

^

you mentioned passive skills? glancing at the skill tree there are things that seem to increase your max PP, things like "bolt tech pp save" and "charge PP revival" which has 1 point max may suggest it lets you regenerate PP while charging.

Course this chart may be a tad out of date, but yeah.

sugarFO

Jun 17, 2012, 02:57 AM

I didn't feel very strong while playing but maybe it was just cuz I was a noob.

BBYiffo

Jun 17, 2012, 03:14 AM

Judging from older topics I digged up here they seem to have changed the skill tree for every testing. Probably looking for a balance.

I felt overpowered when it came to mob control truthfully. Also boosting the attack and deffence of others was useful.

Even though we can actually die a bit more easily we counter that with our ability to use Resta. (If we can have the time to charge it to be good anyway).

I almost forget to mention that it seems we're the only class that can do the freezing, burning, shock status on enemies. I could be wrong there. I keep forgetting that constantly freezing Vol Dragon made his feet stuck to the floor while he struggles for a bit no longer attacking. Only if more bosses were effected this greatly by status effects... I still want Grants/Gigrants.

Hansha

Jun 17, 2012, 03:21 AM

Is this thread more about damage differences in combat or overall strength of the class? Forces are much better as support but still have great damage at the same time. Not only that, but they destroy Darker enemies and their weak points for free (Dark Ragne vs. Rafoie = lol). Also, best dodge in the game and it requires no skill points to improve? Elemental status effects are frequent in techs too. And most importantly, they have pretty/cool visuals on their spells.
The only reason the class isn't obviously better than Ranger is PP regen. Because of this, they feel closer to equal strength to me, at least in low levels. I can't imagine how much techs will improve at higher levels.

Quatre52

Jun 17, 2012, 03:24 AM

Eh, part of the problem some may run into, Forces aren't so much designed for over powering things as you could accomplish in PSU.
They've seemed to go a little more of the PSO style, which is designed for support of other classes...

What that means, the lower power of the force doesn't matter much, its made up with its ability to move and support.

~Inu~

Jun 17, 2012, 03:28 AM

The only reason the class isn't obviously better than Ranger is PP regen.

I just believe they'd need to lower the PP costs of base spells, and think about charging if people are worried charging base spells can really hold them back.
I didn't get too far into a force, so I can't really have a strong opinion about this discussion.
Force AoE was plenty powerful, it was more their base techs that couldn't really keep up with the ranger.
I think a little tweaking to the base techs would do good enough, maybe reduce PP cost and charge times a bit(and maybe a tad less charge damage?) and try to balance it with how much you'd get by by throwing cards (or smacking with a wand) vs how much damage a ranger can do constantly.
Forces have plenty more utility then just damage, but so do Rangers so I don't know what to say there... Eh.

Spellbinder

Jun 17, 2012, 03:32 AM

It certainly is a pity that they revised the skill trees, but there are a few points of note.

2 skills to increase maximum PP
1 skill that allows PP regeneration while charging
1 skill that reduces cost of lightning skills

Truth be told though, looking at the new version of the skill tree, some of the non-elemental boosting skills look poorly placed. For example, Photon Flare and Tech Defense placed under freeze ignition.

Just my opinion, but it'd make sense if there was a PP increase skill after Burn, Freeze, and Shock Boost, then each element had a branch that focused on charged techs, normal techs, etc. For example, go down the fire branch for Charged PP Revival and other charged tech enhancements, the ice branch for defense skills, then Lightning for PP conservation and normal tech enhancements. This way you'd choose an elemental branch to focus on based on what status effects and bonuses it gave.

Although I'm not too keen on Charged PP Revival and the other skills buried under elements, they should at least be orderly and make sense.

Edit: As mentioned above, I also agree on the PP issue of techniques. There was also a lot of dissatisfaction on the JP beta message board if memory serves right. People asking for regular techniques to maybe cost half of what they do now since they have no real appeal over charged techniques.

BBYiffo

Jun 17, 2012, 03:36 AM

Now I wonder why there isn't anything on the talent/skill tree for support magic in comparison to talents/skills that support more aggressive attacks.

Anyway in CBT I find I was just more useful at stunning mobs with my AOE attacks while everyone finishes them off. Now only if I can figure out an option to make my auto-lock select the next target... Maybe make my boss fights soo much easier with the free weak point hits.

I remember people saying Ranger was the most OP thing in CBT. Something about Jellen and some other shots making them do high damage.

Stezan

Jun 17, 2012, 03:36 AM

I don't know, it didn't ever feel as though PP was a problem for me as a Force, granted I only played the Closed Beta and the skill tree has changed. But in the CB, I kept the melee attack on the rod, filled its other three w/techs, and filled the subpallete with techs. I never strayed too far from enemies. Throw out a few techs to hold enemies in place and get Status effects, then go to town a bit with the rod. PP only really became an issue when I would spam foie on bosses, but it would refill as I needed to dodge, and worst case as others have mentioned, pull out a gunslash.

I think people incorrectly place Forces in the same range as Rangers when I think they belong closer to the frontlines. While frail, Mirage escape is an amazing dodge which doesn't need skill points to be awesome. Also the Ice-class techs seemed designed around flinch-and-attack based tactics since both Gi- and Ra- hit multiple times and have good hitstun, not to mention they both freeze. The only time this strategy doesn't hold true is bosses, but Fo have almost always been less equipped to fight bosses than the other classes in PSO/PSU (except maybe De Rol Le in PSO)

Vent

Jun 17, 2012, 03:44 AM

Except from non-charged techs being practically useless, I really don't think Forces are underpowered. I also don't find PP much of a problem, especially with the Charged PP Revival skill later on. You can get that as soon as level 15 with the revised skill trees in the Pre-Open Beta.

However, I do think they lowered the PP regeneration over time compared to CBT. Though it's kind of hard to confirm (especially now that the servers are down), but my feelings tells me it's regenerating more slowly. But even if this is true, the other classes get a downgrade as well.

Don't spend your PP just to hit a single mob is my tip. Let the hunters and rangers do that. Or start whacking it with your rod or gunslash. Also, if you really think Foie is weak, you really need to play the game again. Haha.

You can restore the first slot of your rod/talis to a normal attack by going to your action palette, selecting that slot and hitting the remove button (two kanjis) at the bottom of the window.

A question to the people who played ranger during Pre-OBT. How was launcher? It was ridiculously powerful in CBT. Did they change anything?

Pilla

Jun 17, 2012, 03:56 AM

Guys, not sure about you but when I equipped my gunslash + added a PA to it and then used my quick slots with techs...I was spamming so many skills it felt like I was a god hahaha. I wish I had recorded that part when I was learning how to actually play better, but basically I had RAbatra on key number 1, I'd shot maybe 2-3 times and then go crazy spamming skills. Granted, I had no idea what skills I was putting on my tree, I just selected ice techs since they are my favorite. I cannot WAIT to find a gun with tech on it so I can go even more crazy with that set-up, and I hope nothing gets changed about how I was able to gain my PP instantly almost using a gunslash as my main weapon, then using techs on the quick slots.

soulpimpwizzurd

Jun 17, 2012, 04:20 AM

BBYiffo

Jun 17, 2012, 04:27 AM

I can see the gunslash working nicely for early game but then ends up lacking from tec later on... We just need a new tec based weapon really. Maybe something nice to go with our up close and personal aoe spamming.

Gama

Jun 17, 2012, 05:42 AM

i really enjoyed gunblades/rod/card

but i wish there was something for melee crowd control. like wips?

Aiex

Jun 17, 2012, 05:54 AM

The only thing that frustrates me is that rangers and hunters both have effectively higher PP than forces, since they recover PP during their combos.

At least for now, I don't feel that forces are terribly underpowered. I keep hearing people say forces are for support, but aside from shifta, deband, and the difficult to use resta, there's not a lot of support to be done. J/Zing all the mobs was an important support role in PSO, but to the best of my knowledge there is no J/Z in PSO2.

I'm hoping that while forces a massive pain in the beginning (low PP), that they somehow become better at high levels.

Also, just reducing the PP cost of techs would make forces much more playable.

Spellbinder

Jun 17, 2012, 06:01 AM

While I think they could adjust PP as well, I never found Force to be weak by any stretch of the imagination. Looking forward to the official release. :)

Sp-24

Jun 17, 2012, 06:09 AM

Spellbinder

Jun 17, 2012, 06:39 AM

I'm not sure if Forces need to be rebalanced yet, but techniques sure do. There seems to be absolutely no reason to use uncharged techs right now when you can accomplish the same, if not more, after charging for about a second, with Resta being the biggest offender. And that's before the Charge PP Revival's effect even kicks in.

Though I remember seeing a "Simple Technique Boost" skill in the Zonde branch. Can anyone confirm if it refers to uncharged techs or those that don't have Gi- and Ra- in their name?

Yes, it's referring to non-charged techs of any type.

Edit: One thing to take into consideration, at least for the case of Resta, is that we've only had skills up to maybe level 5 at most. I'm hoping once we find higher level resta, we'll be able to heal people within a respectable range without having to charge it.

ClothoBuer

Jun 17, 2012, 06:45 AM

Haven't touched a FO yet, it's on my list of things to do at launch, but Launchers need to get an adjustment. The amount of damage they can dish out compared to the other RA weapons is still absurdly high, even with the disadvantage of no mobility.

GrandTickler

Jun 17, 2012, 06:52 AM

FO is pretty good imo, i dont have that PP issue later on. just a couple staff hits on a weakling and u can destroy the crap out of everything again, even more effective than hunters in some way. + u get to lock on a enemy's weakspot and stay ranged all the same, making explosions spawn on the weakspots. it also has allot of invincibility frames with the dash so its easy to get a couple hits with your staff when needed and dodge enemy attacks at the same time

Mike

Jun 17, 2012, 07:16 AM

FenixStryk

Jun 17, 2012, 08:16 AM

My Team has been talking about class balance since the alphas, and we reached a consensus regarding this around the later half of CBT:
FO is more restricted by PP than the other two classes, and their damage against bosses is lower due only to this limitation.

Allow me to explain: when a Force is all gassed up, their single-target damage matches that of a Launcher, and their accuracy and AoE damage is unrivaled (which is no surprise due to Gizonde's keen capacity to latch onto entire packs, regardless of formation, form a single cast). FO is a monster for zones because they don't have to stop to regenerate every ten seconds... but when they do, everything they had is tossed to the side. Their normal attacks are both slower and weaker than HU/RA equivalents. The damage isn't there.

I expect almost every Force worth their salt has realized this, and will be going straight for PP Revival in the OBT. We need to be as efficient with our PP as we possibly can, because the moment we run out of steam is the moment we slip.

FO still has their strengths: Resta carries entire parties (if they know how to stay still), and Mirage Escape is the safest dash in the game by magnitudes. I expect Forces will be the first class to clear Hard/Very Hard content simply because of how durable they are (which is curious, considering Mages tend to be the squishiest).

It's a shame Normal Techs are so weak, despite costing the same amount of PP...

D-Inferno

Jun 17, 2012, 09:02 AM

Judging from Closed Beta Experience, Forces are quite powerful actually. My FOnewm was able to hit 2000 with a Charge Foie + Photon Flare in many instances. Mob groups in general all fell to Rafoie.

Brindizer

Jun 17, 2012, 09:52 AM

Stuff

This. I've been having a great time as Force. I've been playing the class since vanilla PSO (including Masterforce), and this is the most fun I've had with it yet. It feels just right to me.

Edit: I'd like to add that I've never bothered with gunslash. I just whack stuff with my rod after each close-up charge shot. Never had a problem.

Scyris

Jun 17, 2012, 10:13 AM

They probally won't balance them, they never did in pso, never balanced in psu, why would they start now? forces in pso universe have always been meant to be support characters and not damage dealers. would be nice if they balance them though but I doubt it'll happen.

Spellbinder

Jun 17, 2012, 10:40 AM

This. I've been having a great time as Force. I've been playing the class since vanilla PSO (including Masterforce), and this is the most fun I've had with it yet. It feels just right to me.

Edit: I'd like to add that I've never bothered with gunslash. I just whack stuff with my rod after each close-up charge shot. Never had a problem.

Masterforce? You mean vanilla PSU?

Randomness

Jun 17, 2012, 10:45 AM

Rangers can't hit anywhere near as many enemies per attack as a force can. Nor are they playing with innate status effects on all their stuff.

I've never had trouble maintaining my PP as a force. Rods and Cards are both area weapons, and can restore massive amounts of PP in a few hits against multiple enemies.

And as noted, we have gunslashes, and fighting with them is also completely viable, you easily maintain the PP for Resta and even start with a great PA (the default gunslash PA has knockup, which makes it fairly safe to use). Not to mention, unlike rangers and hunters, you can still use techs even with a gunslash out.

Miyoko

Jun 17, 2012, 03:07 PM

LeynasMoon

Jun 17, 2012, 03:28 PM

I must say, there was indeed a point in time, while playing during the CBT as RAmarl, where I thought that the Launchers were way too strong.
However, after I had invested some skills, time and money into grinding and enhancing a good rifle that I'd found, I didn't even touch my launchers again unless it was just to make lotsa things go boom once in a while for fun. Playing Ranger feels so free and fun, no matter what you do with your weapons.

I still feel that the Forces need more work on their skill tree set up. Putting element boosting skills in their own trees, then putting passive and special activation skills into their own section would be nice. It's silly to go put 8 points into fire boosting skills before unlocking something like Charge PP Revival, which all Forces are going to want to use I'd assume. Whether they want to focus on upgrading their Foie skills first or not.
We need to have a new weapon to play with, as well. Something that won't make rod or talis obsolete, but a weapon that can compliment other play styles of the Force that may come along later with new techs introduced.

NiteShadow

Jun 17, 2012, 07:43 PM

I enjoyed playing a force for the Alpha and this pre-open Beta. My biggest problem was that my basic attack hotkeys would disappear with no way of me re-assigning them. I'm hoping this has been fixed, as there was a time when I was unable to recover PP with any of my weapons. I found cards to be relatively viable as a method of replenishing PP, but at the same time, it took a bit longer than I'd like. I wish that they had a neutral spell instead..

Jonth

Jun 17, 2012, 08:06 PM

I only played as a Force in the Pre-Open, so I don't have much of a basis for comparison. However, I loved playing it, and I didn't have much of a problem with PP, but that could be because I really didn't want to tech all the time. I love magic swordsman classes, so unleashing all my PP and then smacking everything around with a rod was awesome. I actually had less problems staying alive when I was melee-ing because of the quicker stuns from the faster attacks.

Crystal_Shard

Jun 17, 2012, 08:51 PM

Though having a non PP restricted AoE in launchers is enviable from the perspective of a Force player, I think the greater versatility that the entire range of techs provides more than makes up for the occasional dip in the flow of battle. Don't forget that we haven't even seen the wind, light and dark techs yet, and even with the basic three elements, forces already have something to counter nearly every situation. I also feel they've got the best anti air response out of all the three classes. (Hello charged Foie, and his wife, peripheral damage!)

I think we've got a nice equilibrium going between the classes so far. It's always good to be careful what you wish for. ^_^

I only played as a Force in the Pre-Open, so I don't have much of a basis for comparison. However, I loved playing it, and I didn't have much of a problem with PP, but that could be because I really didn't want to tech all the time. I love magic swordsman classes, so unleashing all my PP and then smacking everything around with a rod was awesome. I actually had less problems staying alive when I was melee-ing because of the quicker stuns from the faster attacks.

Give a Gunslash oriented Force a try if you really want that magic swordsman feel. You do get a slight dip in tech attack power, but in return, you always have a way to get your PP back at both short and long ranges. Barehand casting animation also looks pretty fancy as well.

Jonth

Jun 18, 2012, 05:38 AM

Omega-z

Jun 18, 2012, 08:36 AM

Vent - is right that the PP regan was slower then before I was noticing that right of the bat. The thing how the skill tree is now, Has it so we focus more on the element's and not the passives as much now. I didn't like them at first where they are placed but now I understand how they did it now. The only thing I could say is dropping the non-tech's about 10 pp would work any more and Zonde would be broken. It's a fine line to make them work, The best thing they could do is add more Base-tech up in the tree.

GrandTickler

Jun 18, 2012, 08:44 AM

also i was able to solo arks city with force np, while i havent been able to yet with hunter or ranger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsrVME2mbJQ

so they are not that weak :P note that this is closed beta so i dont know how much changed since then

Gama

Jun 18, 2012, 09:04 AM

Give a Gunslash oriented Force a try if you really want that magic swordsman feel. You do get a slight dip in tech attack power, but in return, you always have a way to get your PP back at both short and long ranges. Barehand casting animation also looks pretty fancy as well.

i actually played as a tech/swordsman and it felt like acrotecher from psu "when i got resta it was even better"

for flying enemies id just jump and gun-slash the "#$% out of them, they died rather quickly this way. then rafoie/gizonde spamming large groups.

i saw someone using grants btw, it was amazing since it works pretty much like in pso,so i'm exited to get it.

the card's dynamic is still a bit hard for me to handle. but useful nonetheless.

Zyrusticae

Jun 18, 2012, 09:09 AM

Haven't read through the thread yet, but from the sound of things they haven't changed much from CBT, in which case they still have these problems:

1. Uncharged techs are generally worse than charged techs due to the huge difference in PP-efficiency, and
2. Rods cannot generate PP as effectively as a gunslash or cards due to the way rods work, making them automatically inferior to both

I will note that forces do seem to scale harder than rangers or hunters, with astronomically high damage values at higher tech levels and with better weapons to cast from. It's not terribly uncommon for a very powerful force to clear entire rooms instantaneously once they've hit their peak.

Rhypht

Jun 18, 2012, 09:15 AM

I guess it depends on how you play your force. With certain builds and setups, I can definitely see the frustration. I tried canes and staffs for a bit, didn't really care for them for that reason. I use cards now though, and they really seem to work perfectly, for me at least. Basically, I just keep casting spells as needed, and when my PP is too low to continue, I just fall back a bit and use the cards to refill my PP quickly. Most of the time I'm using the cards in combination with my spells anyway, so I rarely run into the 'mana blocked' issue.

Like I said, it works for me, but I can understand how some people could think that they're under powered. Good news is the skill tree has changed for every new playtest of the game, so it's obvious that they're looking at this sort of stuff, and hopefully they'll do full balancing that way.

KatsujinkenKik

Jun 18, 2012, 10:09 AM

also i was able to solo arks city with force np, while i havent been able to yet with hunter or ranger.

PSO2 Beta Force Gameplay - Arks city solo run - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsrVME2mbJQ)

so they are not that weak :P note that this is closed beta so i dont know how much changed since then

I used to play like this, but then I discovered the quick efficiency of chaining just attacks with the Talis and tabbing through targets for weak points while juggling the third person view for good placement and distance of resta and ra- spells. The talis is a big trade in power compared to the rod, but I feel rods are best suited for close up mobs using gi- and ra- spells while the talis is best at everything else.

In any case, playing as a force needs more palette and view juggling than the other classes.

Crystal_Shard

Jun 18, 2012, 10:31 AM

@Gama: I prefer using charged Foie on aerial enemies by far, versus any other method short of auto targeting Gizonde, mostly because it damages any enemy unfortunate to even be slightly in its trail. Using a Gunslash still requires you to approach, jump and slash at an enemy, or be fairly accurate in TPS mode. On the other hand, anything that I point at in a straight line with a charged Foie is almost guaranteed to take some damage.

@Zyrusticae: Point 1 is still valid ; I think Point 2 is still arguable. Don't forget that rods hitstun enemies in a wide arc, making it a pretty effective melee weapon over cards which penentrate instead, and if you aren't careful, may cause you to cast techs remotely by accident. Using a Gunslash reduces your overall tech power, but gives you more options to regen PP, keeping you in the fray longer. And of course, PP Charge Revival mixes things up even more.

I was a bit of a Card convert when I first used them, now I'm back to preferring Rods again.

KatsujinkenKik

Jun 18, 2012, 10:36 AM

Two little tricks i have for making sure my distant card disappears quickly enough is by quickly throwing a card at the ground, or throwing a card while standing and jumping to cancel the animation.

Jonth

Jun 18, 2012, 03:21 PM

Never even wanted to try the cards, because I don't want to fight ranged. Even while teching, I was generally always pretty close, which complemented the necessity to start whaling with my rod. If enemies decided to bunch up (which they often did), my rod's hit-stun kept them from doing much of anything. Only time I had to take myself out of the fray was when I needed to back away to get a heal off. Being a force has yet to be a disappointment for me.

Omega-z

Jun 18, 2012, 06:41 PM

Rhypht

Jun 18, 2012, 06:46 PM

Talis's are pretty interesting tho. You can attack at distance and with magic which can even make the distance farther. You can change the distance of the card itself with your throw, pierce thru enemies and go around object's with it. Hardly any variance at all can be boosted with Photon Flare for more damage ie. the Card's themselves too. Their quicker with release time and paired with Mirage Escape can actually allow you to Melee Target's down. Here's a tip use poison with the card to get better DPS fast. I've killed the fastest lizard monster boss this way in 1:45 and 2 of them in less than 3 mins.

Yeah, I found a nice poison-attribute talis right before the end of the CBT and was amazed at how great it worked.

Few questions. When you say 'pierce through enemies', do you mean that the card hits an enemy and travels through it? Same question with the 'going around objects' bit. I didn't know either of those were possible, but if they are, that would add a lot more strategy into how I use them.

Randomness

Jun 18, 2012, 06:51 PM

Yeah, I found a nice poison-attribute talis right before the end of the CBT and was amazed at how great it worked.

Few questions. When you say 'pierce through enemies', do you mean that the card hits an enemy and travels through it? Same question with the 'going around objects' bit. I didn't know either of those were possible, but if they are, that would add a lot more strategy into how I use them.

Cards posses a linear AoE-they do go through enemies to hit stuff behind them.

As to going around corners, yes, you can make cards shoot any direction, so you could throw it past the corner, turn, and then drop Barta flying around the corner. If you intend to do this, I recommend exiting TPS mode (which is otherwise nice for things like shooting barta up a ledge, or placing cards in the air to make massive lightning rains with Razonde)