Campaign to be able to USE ITEMS WHEN MOVING

[eharima]

Really, am I the only one who thinks its it's a retarded faux difficulty layer by having to stop when using items?

EDIT HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT MOONS BEING SLOW TO CAST ALSO??

If they really want to keep it, at least change it so that the item takes affect immediatly rather than,-

Get hurt, ragne rape, use dimate, WAIT 2 FULL SECONDS FOR ANIMATION TO START, hp bar starts to increase, OHMAI YOU'RE DEAD RAGNE RAPE.

Can't runa away, can't use items, wtＦ？

SO BASICALLY IM WONDERING HOW MANY PEOPLE SUPPORT THIS?

Also is it possible to make threads on the players site? or is that to read feedback from them only?
http://pso2.jp/players/support/measures/?rep_group=1

or do you have to use this feedback form?

https://ssl.pso2.jp/players/support/inquiry/?mode=opinion

[Crimson Exile]

Lol im just happy im able to play pso2. Sorry but ill pass

[Neirene]

That's part of the challenge of the game in my opinion it's a nice addition that you must know exactly when you should use a certain recovery item without getting hurt.

[Blackheart521]

I personally think it's better this way, means you need to plan out your heals... you have to get somewhere safe and you can't spam heals, it adds more depth to a battle and makes you need to be more tactical with it

[youcantcatchtheblue]

Lol, this game would be way too easy if you could use items while moving.

[Eyce_Theon]

Having an animation to heal is not fake difficulty. Full mobility while healing instantly shouldn't be expected, even though PSO had it. You should try a Monster Hunter game if you really want to hate on unnecessary animations (*eat*........*flex*).

It also didn't take nearly the amount of time you describe, you may have had a bad connection. The animation starts immediately, only takes about a second.

[MAXrobo]

I like it because it give you a reason to use something other then trimates. I find myself avoiding trimates unless I really need it because I don't usually have the time to use them

[Vashyron]

I like it because it give you a reason to use something other then trimates. I find myself avoiding trimates unless I really need it because I don't usually have the time to use them

Yep.

Potentially some people haven't realised the higher ranked healing items take more time to use.

[BIG OLAF]

It's that way for a reason, as some people have pointed out. So, unlike PSU, you can't just spam Trimates and be invincible. You actually need to think about an appropriate time to heal, and gauge when you think you may have enough time to drink your 'mate. SEGA turned healing into a tactical situation. It's better this way.

[AlMcFly]

Instead of making it an animation, I would rather the healing items have a cool down. That's a much easier method than interrupting the flow of combat. I will agree with the OP in saying that I was a little shocked by this at first.

[futamieriko]

It's most likely working as intended. It would be tough to make scary enemies and bosses if you could just chug potions indefinitely and instantly. Although you could in PSO, I always found for me personally the only enemies that inspired fear were ones I knew could kill me in a single hit. I'm just glad they didn't put a cooldown on potions, a lot of games seem to be doing that now.

[Mike]

Also is it possible to make threads on the players site? or is that to read feedback from them only?
http://pso2.jp/players/support/measures/?rep_group=1

or do you have to use this feedback form?

https://ssl.pso2.jp/players/support/inquiry/?mode=opinion
The first link there is for bugs and problems in the game. It says what the problem is and how they're dealing with it. The second link is the form you have to use. I'd imagine that you won't get anything done regarding healing animations because they've been in the game since the first alpha.

[ashley50]

lol really? This shouldn't even be a topic.

You just have to live and learn WHEN and when NOT to heal.

[AlMcFly]

lol really? This shouldn't even be a topic.

You just have to live and learn WHEN and when NOT to heal.

I've seen much worse topics in a thread. XD A game mechanic that an individual has a strong opinion about is as good a topic as any.

[Zorafim]

"I'm down to 1hp and I'm surrounded by enemies? No biggy, I'll just pop a mate keep going."

I never liked instant heals. What's the point of having a health meter if you can just press a button and it fills up again? I much prefer the system they have going on now.

If you really want instant healing, though, there should be a hunter skill that automatically uses a mate when you're under 50% health. You know, if you really don't want to bother looking at your health.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

i'm surprised you're complaining about this man. it's not really that bad. and what do you mean you can't run away from ragne? perhaps we can assist you and give you tips for whatever attack he's using that is undodgeable. iirc he does nothing that is not out runnable (granted i do the dashjumpdash with a partisan/gunslash to move faster out of the way but it's only like ~10-15% faster than regular running)

zorafim also gives you a good solution if you're a hunter. o-to meito ha-fu rain gives your character a chance to automatically restore hp using a monomate if you fall below half hp or something.

if you can, you should upload a video (not right now ofc since that's not possible ) and show us an example of an undodgeable attack ragne does. perhaps you're talking about his jump attack where he just squashes you. if you're talking about his projectiles though... they have i guess a higher learning curve but they're completely dodgeable

[moorebounce]

I can deal w/ the standing while using items. I'm just happy you don't have to inject your mates like they did early in PSO2 development. I can't even imagine the amount of jokes that would've created.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

I can deal w/ the standing while using items. I'm just happy you don't have to inject your mates like they did early in PSO2 development. I can't even imagine the amount of jokes that would've created.

i'm actually really sad they took that out. i think that's awesome and i probably would have made a bunch of fitting automacros for each time i injected myself lol.

it's certainly more humorous than the typical "potion drink" animation.

[Polly]

Instant heals are for chumps. I like the added layer of deciding if I need to pull back and heal preemptively rather than standing there and tanking it to the face. It's an action RPG, and I want the game to punish me for making bad calls thinking I'm invincible. I don't want to just stand there spamming a combo and special moves while hammering the 'mate button. That's child's play.

[Hansha]

I like seeing my character drink soda.

[Lumir]

I love the way it is because it means you need to plan out how you will use a healing item. With the current system you can dash away to a temporary safety, or time your "window of opertunity to heal" and use it knowing it will most likely go succesfully and then get right back into the action. Its a tactical and exciting element that fits PERFECTLY with this type of gameplay.

Its way better then a nonstop spammable semi-invincible system, and even better then a instant cast with a timer attached. It requires skill/planning. Its not some free insta heal that requires little to no effort. And i like it like that.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Instant heals are for chumps. I like the added layer of deciding if I need to pull back and heal preemptively rather than standing there and tanking it to the face. It's an action RPG, and I want the game to punish me for making bad calls thinking I'm invincible. I don't want to just stand there spamming a combo and special moves while hammering the 'mate button. That's child's play.

i can agree with this. you definitely get punished for making bad plays, and rightfully so. they made the servers and game excellent so you really have no excuses to get hit unless you messed up (i have never gotten lag hit/failed a block/dodge due to lag, i've only gotten hit due to my own mis-timing)

but damn he called you a chump! zing! zingzingzing!

[Vylera]

They could implement the Vindictus style of consuming potions.

If you stand and drink, it takes longer, but you get the maximum benefits of the potion.

If you move and drink, it takes a lot less time, but you get roughly half the healing effect.

So then it becomes the question of "am I really healing enough HP from moving & potting or am I just wasting my monomates?"

[Lumir]

They could implement the Vindictus style of consuming potions.

If you stand and drink, it takes longer, but you get the maximum benefits of the potion.

If you move and drink, it takes a lot less time, but you get roughly half the healing effect.

So then it becomes the question of "am I really healing enough HP from moving & potting or am I just wasting my monomates?"

Nah the current system is perfect IMO, with the vindictus system you can just buy potions that heal for a lot and not worry about moving and chugging pots. Could be expensive yes and thats the trade off, but I would rather tactically plan out when i want to and when i can heal. Its another gameplay element.

[Vylera]

Nah the current system is perfect IMO, with the vindictus system you can just buy potions that heal for a lot and not worry about moving and chugging pots. Could be expensive yes and thats the trade off, but I would rather tactically plan out when i want to and when i can heal. Its another gameplay element.

Fair enough point. I didn't re-consider the fact that PSO2 has multiple tiers of potions while Vindictus has only one primary HP potion.

Personally I have no problems with the current potion system either, especially as a ranger (for obvious reasons). I think potion animations are underused and need to be forced into more games. It just makes sense, really. To not be able to drink 100 potions within 60 seconds and still be standing somewhere other than in the bathroom.

[Lumir]

Fair enough point. I didn't re-consider the fact that PSO2 has multiple tiers of potions while Vindictus has only one primary HP potion.

Personally I have no problems with the current potion system either, especially as a ranger (for obvious reasons). I think potion animations are underused and need to be forced into more games. It just makes sense, really. To not be able to drink 100 potions within 60 seconds and still be standing somewhere other than in the bathroom.

Haha thanks for the chuckle from the bathroom comment. I agree it makes perfect sense to have an animation for someone to drink something or even inject something. And in PSO2's case it really adds another gameplay factor that takes skill/planning.

[moorebounce]

I wonder if the "Auto Mate" skill in the hunter skill tree has you being able to move when it kicks in or does your character stop moving when it kicks in.

[Lumir]

I wonder if the "Auto Mate" skill in the hunter skill tree has you being able to move when it kicks in or does your character stop moving when it kicks in.

I was wondering the same thing. I would be problematic if you had this and were not ready for it to "proc", or get stuck in a mob because it keeps "proc'n".

[~Inu~]

I wonder if the "Auto Mate" skill in the hunter skill tree has you being able to move when it kicks in or does your character stop moving when it kicks in.

Pretty much came in here to mention that skill.
It would make more sense for a hunter to get hit now and then, so sega probably tried to justify it with that talent.
I'd just like to know how it works, I would prefer a way to have a little control over using them instead of wasting mates (if I didn't want to heal or was going to BE healed)

I think it's just going to stay the way it is, maybe they'll tweak that talent in the future but it really should only be up in the clouds for a hunter.

[Polly]

The skill would probably be more useful if you could set the percentage yourself for when the ability hit.

Depending on how the ability is handled however (instant use or waiting for the animation) it could make tanking hits even more braindead. Maybe make used 'mate suffer a percentage decrease in healing power and throw a cooldown on it so it could only proc once per encounter or minute or so.

[Jonth]

As others have said, I like it the way it is. I was a Force, and therefore used Resta a whole lot more instead, but same concept. Bam bam, "Crap, I'm in the red... Need to find a place to use Resta... Oh look, a giant rock that I can use for cover." Now that is fun.

[mctastee]

I don't see this as a problem. I haven't done any bosses yet, but at least in regular combat this is never ever a problem.

[Vent]

You know, the delay of healing items is a very important mechanic of the game. Just look at the hunter skill tree. There's a skill called 'Automate', which has a chance of instantly using a mate for you when you drop below a certain amount of HP. Instantly, you don't even need to push the button for mate or stand still.

[Dragwind]

I think it's a necessary evil. I agree with many of the other posts- having to stop moving in order to heal makes it a lot more important to be careful with healing, and to be careful in battle as well.

[eharima]

Okay, so according to everyone who posted,
(thanks for your opinions)
Im the only one who dislikes it... -_-
Don't get me wrong, I understand why its been implemented like this, and hopefully will inspire more team play, as im yet to see high lv Fo resta and the area of effect it has.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT MOONS BEING SLOW TO CAST ALSO??

[Mike]

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT MOONS BEING SLOW TO CAST ALSO??
This is to give the dead person ample time to purchase a scape doll with AC.

Really though, strategy.

[Ifrian-x]

I like the change NOW, but i would like it tested at max difficulty level for melee characters.
The gameplay will be much more difficult and punishing then.

[RocSage]

Okay, so according to everyone who posted,
(thanks for your opinions)
Im the only one who dislikes it... -_-
Don't get me wrong, I understand why its been implemented like this, and hopefully will inspire more team play, as im yet to see high lv Fo resta and the area of effect it has.]

Actually, no. I hate it too, and I'm inclined to think that the only reason people say they don't mind it is because they like PSO2, or PS games, in general so will defend just about anything they are given. Also, psychologically it's known that if you ask someone if they like something this way or that way, more often than not, if they have it one way already they will say they like it the way they have it because they have it that way already. It's a mechanism in our brains to keep us sane more or less.

The stopping while moving is bad design as is the length of the animation. One might argue that allowing you to move while using one decreases the challenge factor by decreasing the strategy. It doesn't. The HP of the bosses/monsters are so stupendously high and their movements and attacks are so brokenly absurd in their speed that you have to plan around getting damage while healing and you're going to run out or be low on mates unless you are absurdly skilled and not making any mistakes by the end of the fight. That's not good design when you have to plan on not ever getting the full heal, or very rarely. Further, the strategy of PSO's mates came with deciding when to use which mate so that they lasted for a lot longer. The strategy of PSO2 is "omg I better use a trimate so I can actually heal some hp rather than be lower HP because I'm going to get hit by the time the animation ends."

That's another thing. Not only did PSO give you movement and instant health restore it also gave you temporary invulnerability for a split second which was incredibly useful and became part of the overall strategy of anyone who knew about it and could use it effectively.

The funny thing is that not only is the animaton/planting far too long and bad in general though but Trimate in particular is longer than it should be. You literally get done with the animation and are stuck for another few frames more than you should be and those are the frames that cost me the most and are the most aggravating, because you see the animation is over and see whatever it is coming in to hit you, but you can do literally nothing.

In the end it is a poor design choice and poorly implemented in place and while you can say it adds strategy it does not compliment the overall style of the game. If anything they added it to compensate for PSU's shortcoming in that area, along with several other factor, which when combined are an overcompensation that should be addressed but won't be.

[eharima]

^RocSage, I feel your point of view, but as Mike reminded me, its all about the AC business model now i think about it.

I feel that they might actually want you to die more, so your using scapes and AC more frequently.

[ClothoBuer]

Do I like not being able to move when using a Moon/Mate? Not really, no. Do I think they should remove it? No. Because, like everyone's saying, you take out the time delay on heals, the game goes easymode. The best way to avoid being in these situations is simply to not put yourself in them. All the bosses have predictable attack patterns, and can easily be dodged by focusing on evasion and your surroundings, rather than just running in and mashing buttons. And I guarantee, if the heal animations are pulled, that's exactly what will happen to the game.

It's been years since I finally found a MMO that wasn't difficult just for the sake of slowing progression, or easy because it wanted a larger playerbase. PSO2 is my last bastion of hope that game companies can still produce a challenging RPG that forces players to change their own ways to succeed, rather than hand them everything whenever things don't go how they want.

[p0ltergei5t]

My problem with this is not the fact that we have to stop moving, but the fact we can't cancel the animation (at least that I know of). And that is one of the reasons I'll be playing as a force.

[skuld01]

Inb4 they decide to add a cooldown timer on items.

[GrandTickler]

obviously they added for difficulty, since the game is so darn easy of itself already i say pass

[Sp-24]

I don't think that item animations should be removed. In PSO, instant healing was great because often enough you had no way at all to avoid getting hit. Here, we have fast attack animations, some of which even let you move and keep attacking, and instant evasion maneuver. Sure, removing item animations will help newcomers who are still adjusting to the game and people who want to take it easy, but I bet that those who know what are they doing will breeze through most of the game encountering little to no challenge that way. Don't forget that PSO series have always been about teamwork, too, and instant items would make Forces even more useless than they already are, since their Resta takes years to charge as of now.

Plus, and this is coming from my DMC experience, if you are given options to avoid item usage, but still end up using them anyway, you deserve at least some punishment.

By the way, "bad design" is the new "in my opinion", if anybody was wondering.

[RocSage]

I don't think that item animations should be removed. In PSO, instant healing was great because often enough you had no way at all to avoid getting hit. Here, we have fast attack animations, some of which even let you move and keep attacking, and instant evasion maneuver. Sure, removing item animations will help newcomers who are still adjusting to the game and people who want to take it easy, but I bet that those who know what are they doing will breeze through most of the game encountering little to no challenge that way. Don't forget that PSO series have always been about teamwork, too, and instant items would make Forces even more useless than they already are, since their Resta takes years to charge as of now.

Plus, and this is coming from my DMC experience, if you are given options to avoid item usage, but still end up using them anyway, you deserve at least some punishment.

By the way, "bad design" is the new "in my opinion", if anybody was wondering.

I don't want the animations to be removed and I don't think anyone else does either. What I want is that they are properly timed and for you not to be planted. The whole idea of being planted while using items is counter to everything else in the game as it takes continuous movement to beat everything and that is where it is bad design. The items locking you up like that is not only not balanced with the rest of the game but feels like it is from a different game altogether.

As far as "bad design" is an opinion. That is somewhat true, as it is for what makes bad music, literature, movies, art, etc. There are things that you can factually say are worse or better, but people still consider good or bad regardless. For example, Tolkien's Lord of the Rings is a horrifically written book, but people consider it good. When you examine what they mean by "good" they are saying that a certain aspect is so good that for them it overrides the bad, in LotR's case, the world built is so impressive that the fact that the story is mundane and the writing is god awful is inconsequential to how they feel about the book. Does that make it a good book or a bad book? Technically I'd say it is a bad book, because it technically is, but I can't argue that a lot of people like it and consider it a good book which is part of the point of books so it must be good on some level.

[Sp-24]

You are also binded in place when using techs, cards and, as I heard, launchers, so items are not breaking any synergy here, I think. Of course, unlike those, I don't think you can dash out of item animation, but then again, when you are the only target and the effect is instantaneous, why wouldn't you do it if you could? Because unless I was using the lock-on function wrong, dashing seemed to break my lock, so I often had to trade my sweet damage-dealing setup for my continued existence. And when charging Resta, I had to creep around at minimal speed with almost no way to avoid a direct attack other than by dashing, which would just make me waste my PP. And mind you, even after casting a charged Resta, you aren't healed instantly, so items are already a better option in some instances.

With that in mind, I think that most of the buffs that could be given to items would easily make them overpowered. Move at full speed and be able to jump while using them? Most of the attacks can be avoided that way already. Let people dash out of the item animation? Instant heal, invincibility frames and ability to jump straight into action, nice. Canceling probably shouldn't even be mentioned.

So, as annoying as items currently are, I think they still fit well into the game. I do see your point, but I'd call something that breaks the balance a bigger design offender than something that doesn't fit in aesthetically, if the choice is between the two.

[Polly]

Inb4 they decide to add a cooldown timer on items.

Where do I sign? It's something that could absolutely be balanced and would make the decision to use that item an even greater point to consider in combat.

[D-Inferno]

Healing was way too easy in PSO1. Better to see healing get a "nerf".

[Garteal]

Inb4 they decide to add a cooldown timer on items.

Where do I sign? It's something that could absolutely be balanced and would make the decision to use that item an even greater point to consider in combat.

Cooldown on items is the worst thing ever invented. There's nothing balanced about it.

Using items while moving seems like a great idea. The animations when using items, however, should stay.

[FenixStryk]

Where do I sign? It's something that could absolutely be balanced and would make the decision to use that item an even greater point to consider in combat.A cooldown alone is less of a skill choice than a long animation. If you can benefit even partially from a cooldown, you will pop it every time, whereas if you want to heal but it has an animation, you'll forego it because of the risk. Risk is the keyword here: a three second animation requires you to make sure it is safe to perform before you use it, while a cooldown does not.

Pardon me if you were campaigning for an animation and a cooldown... although, at that point, you'd leave me to wonder exactly how masochistic you are. :wacko:

[Polly]

A cooldown alone is less of a skill choice than a long animation. If you can benefit even partially from a cooldown, you will pop it every time, whereas if you want to heal but it has an animation, you'll forego it because of the risk. Risk is the keyword here: a three second animation requires you to make sure it is safe to perform before you use it, while a cooldown does not.

Pardon me if you were campaigning for an animation and a cooldown... although, at that point, you'd leave me to wonder exactly how masochistic you are. :wacko:

To some it may seem masochistic, but I see it more as as a method of enforcing better and smarter play on the part of the player. Even the ability to run away, hide behind a rock, and chug 'mates every 10 seconds seems a tad absurd to me.

Of course, I'm pretty open minded and not afraid to admit I'm wrong if late-game content turns out to be horribly balanced with bullpoop hit stuns and unblockable comboing. A system where cooldown + animations on 'mates could work and make combat far more satisfying, but even I can admit that largely depends on the game's actual balance. I haven't seen anything so far to suggest that things could become that unbalanced, but I can't read the future either.


Cooldown on items is the worst thing ever invented. There's nothing balanced about it.

Using items while moving seems like a great idea. The animations when using items, however, should stay.

I'm not sure how moving and being able to chug an item involves much risk at all. There's no "moment" where you have to stop and make a decision to heal and pray it was the right choice. You're still mobile and unable to use an attack animation for a few seconds, that is what your example boils down to. Not being able to attack for a few seconds and being mobile doesn't seem to balance at all with needing to heal because you ate a punch to the face.

[RocSage]

You are also binded in place when using techs, cards and, as I heard, launchers, so items are not breaking any synergy here, I think. Of course, unlike those, I don't think you can dash out of item animation, but then again, when you are the only target and the effect is instantaneous, why wouldn't you do it if you could? Because unless I was using the lock-on function wrong, dashing seemed to break my lock, so I often had to trade my sweet damage-dealing setup for my continued existence. And when charging Resta, I had to creep around at minimal speed with almost no way to avoid a direct attack other than by dashing, which would just make me waste my PP. And mind you, even after casting a charged Resta, you aren't healed instantly, so items are already a better option in some instances.

With that in mind, I think that most of the buffs that could be given to items would easily make them overpowered. Move at full speed and be able to jump while using them? Most of the attacks can be avoided that way already. Let people dash out of the item animation? Instant heal, invincibility frames and ability to jump straight into action, nice. Canceling probably shouldn't even be mentioned.

So, as annoying as items currently are, I think they still fit well into the game. I do see your point, but I'd call something that breaks the balance a bigger design offender than something that doesn't fit in aesthetically, if the choice is between the two.

The animations on the attacks that plant you in place make sense. If you can move and attack sensibly realistically that is how it is in the game. With Items however "mates" at least, are drinks. You should be able to run and drink. You could also make it so if you cancel out of the animation with dodge/block you get some fractional amount based on how much of the animation passed because you had to throw away the drink to cancel out.

[eharima]

also if i remember correctly, you couldnt use items AT ALL in TPS mode with fo nor ranger.

So you had to switch out THEN stand still for 3 seconds using an item >.>

[Garteal]

I'm not sure how moving and being able to chug an item involves much risk at all. There's no "moment" where you have to stop and make a decision to heal and pray it was the right choice. You're still mobile and unable to use an attack animation for a few seconds, that is what your example boils down to. Not being able to attack for a few seconds and being mobile doesn't seem to balance at all with needing to heal because you ate a punch to the face.

There is a risk. You're unable to attack, dodge and jump.
All you can do is manouver yourself 'fast' enough to attempt to dodge the next attack.

IMO it's ridiculous if the game stops you if you're trying to heal. It doesn't add any risk or skill, only annoyances.

This game is certainly more fast paced than PSO1, so you can expect faster and harder enemies/bosses etc to make up for it.

[Sp-24]

The animations on the attacks that plant you in place make sense. If you can move and attack sensibly realistically that is how it is in the game. With Items however "mates" at least, are drinks. You should be able to run and drink. You could also make it so if you cancel out of the animation with dodge/block you get some fractional amount based on how much of the animation passed because you had to throw away the drink to cancel out.

Actions are not all that realistically sensible in this game, as I'm fairly sure that if you can hold, aim and shoot a Gunblade while running, then you should be able to swing it while running as well, but nope. And should I even mention throwing a card? On the other hand, you are often advised not to drink during a physical exercise, which I imagine running to be, lest you risk choking, so ironically, this one actually does make sense.

However, my point is that healing items work that way so that the only other way to heal a good amount of HP, which is to wait 1 second before Resta charges, 1 more before it casts and then anywhere from 1 to 5 seconds before it actually heals you isn't horribly unusable in comparison. Gameplay is also a part of game design, after all.

[Rhypht]

WAIT 2 FULL SECONDS FOR ANIMATION TO START, hp bar starts to increase, OHMAI YOU'RE DEAD RAGNE RAPE.

Maybe it's some issue with your game, because I've never had to wait two full seconds for the animation to start.

I've never experienced any issues with this at all. It adds a bit of realistic difficulty to situations this way, and I really don't mind it.

Normally this forum is pretty good about this, other forums have members just constantly bashing and complaining about every little thing and you wonder why they even play the game in the first place :P
Anyway I think you should just try to overlook the little things that bug you like that and focus on the fact that:

Dude. It's PSO2. It is amazing. And we can play it soon!

[Zabrio]

The animation also makes forces more important, a class that can quick cast healing spells for everyone without forcing them to do the item animation is valuable.

[RocSage]

Actions are not all that realistically sensible in this game, as I'm fairly sure that if you can hold, aim and shoot a Gunblade while running, then you should be able to swing it while running as well, but nope. And should I even mention throwing a card? On the other hand, you are often advised not to drink during a physical exercise, which I imagine running to be, lest you risk choking, so ironically, this one actually does make sense.

However, my point is that healing items work that way so that the only other way to heal a good amount of HP, which is to wait 1 second before Resta charges, 1 more before it casts and then anywhere from 1 to 5 seconds before it actually heals you isn't horribly unusable in comparison. Gameplay is also a part of game design, after all.

Except that's not true. That is how YOU choose to play. In fact, if you want to heal in general you should be focusing on Fast Casting rather than Power Casting. Hunters have this to. You can focus on Damage or you can Focus on Defense.

And while it is recommended that you do not drink and run around, we're talking athletic military type who are told to drink and keep moving so no it doesn't make sense especially while you are fighting gigantic monsters.

I don't know what you mean by moving with gunslash because i have not had that problem and as far as throwing cards, they aren't "cards."

[Sp-24]

Except that's not true. That is how YOU choose to play. In fact, if you want to heal in general you should be focusing on Fast Casting rather than Power Casting. Hunters have this to. You can focus on Damage or you can Focus on Defense.

And while it is recommended that you do not drink and run around, we're talking athletic military type who are told to drink and keep moving so no it doesn't make sense especially while you are fighting gigantic monsters.

I don't know what you mean by moving with gunslash because i have not had that problem and as far as throwing cards, they aren't "cards."

Do we know that military types are trained to be able to drink an entire bottle of liquid in the middle of a fight or do we assume it?

And we are also talking about a game here. A game that has gameplay, game mechanics and all those other things that should be taken into consideration. For example, I couldn't recover more than 40 HP with an uncharged Resta. That's 40 HP for 30 PP, a.k.a. 1/4 of all the PP I have at a low level. And mind you, it still takes half a second to cast it just once. So, if I choose to play as a fast caster, I might as well just forget about Resta, fill my palette with offensive techs and chug items when I need HP, since they'll probably heal me better anyway, even in the state they are in right now.

Because, unless uncharged Resta gets an extended range and a crapload of effectiveness with each level, it means that there are no fast healing options in the game at all. You either avoid damage or try to recover it safely. It can be good or bad in a matter of opinion, but as a design concept, it actually sounds even better than it works in the game.

Also, throwing "talis" shouldn't be any harder than throwing "cards", should it? I mean, name was the last thing that affected throwability last time I checked. And, in turn, I don't what do you mean about moving with gunslash, either, because using a melee attack locks you in one place.

[catwat]

@Topic: It's better the way it is now. If you can't afford getting hit while trying to heal up just get to a save position or find a timing where monsters can't attack you or just kill them first. Same with moon atomizers. Find a save sitiuation if it's tough or just kill the mobs first. Or throw down a pipe if people around you just keep dying over and over.

[Eyce_Theon]

IMO it's ridiculous if the game stops you if you're trying to heal. It doesn't add any risk or skill, only annoyances.

The animations are in place for both, actually. You need to be skilled enough to not get hit often, so you aren't put in the risky situation of finding a place to heal safely. If someone gets hit and tries to heal immediately in battle, they're taking a huge risk by standing still and definitely not using any skill.

I'll refer to Monster Hunter again. That entire (amazing) game is based on avoiding attacks and using your lengthy animations wisely and safely. Maximizing skill to minimize risk is important in all games that provide a decent challenge, PSO should be no different.

[Randomness]

also if i remember correctly, you couldnt use items AT ALL in TPS mode with fo nor ranger.

So you had to switch out THEN stand still for 3 seconds using an item >.>

Nah, you can use items in TPS mode normally.


As to sitting still, it's hardly a huge issue. Or maybe it's me being used to MH Tri and being stuck in place for even longer to heal.

Also, techs only root you on release, and only briefly. So it's not as big a deal.

[RocSage]

And we are also talking about a game here. A game that has gameplay, game mechanics and all those other things that should be taken into consideration. For example, I couldn't recover more than 40 HP with an uncharged Resta. That's 40 HP for 30 PP, a.k.a. 1/4 of all the PP I have at a low level. And mind you, it still takes half a second to cast it just once. So, if I choose to play as a fast caster, I might as well just forget about Resta, fill my palette with offensive techs and chug items when I need HP, since they'll probably heal me better anyway, even in the state they are in right now.


Oh look a skill to raise PP...



Also, throwing "talis" shouldn't be any harder than throwing "cards", should it? I mean, name was the last thing that affected throwability last time I checked. And, in turn, I don't what do you mean about moving with gunslash, either, because using a melee attack locks you in one place.

A talis is a machine designed to shoot something that is doesn't work with known physics as it hovers without a power source and things like that.

You and me have a different meaning of "locked in place" apparently.

[Sp-24]

Yep, a skill to raise PP. Now, where did I put that skill that reduces cast time so it doesn't take longer to recover HP with techs than it does with items?

EDIT: Also, Talis:
http://www.pso-world.com/images/items/BB-TALIS-TEKKER-1.jpg

[Jonth]

Oh look a skill to raise PP...

I'm sorry but... Don't the PP up skills only raise PP by a very marginal amount? Something like 20 when you have maxed out both at level 10? I could be wrong, but if not, these skills are kind of a moot point.

Also... No, uncharged Resta is not a viable way to heal yourself or a group in the middle of combat. Uncharged tech power is a joke in general. I get that you don't like to be rooted in place when using an item, but using a less effective approach is not the answer.

[Garteal]

The animations are in place for both, actually.
The animations are fine, and are more than sufficient as a 'penalty'.



You need to be skilled enough to not get hit often, so you aren't put in the risky situation of finding a place to heal safely. If someone gets hit and tries to heal immediately in battle, they're taking a huge risk by standing still and definitely not using any skill.

Yes, you need to be skilled not to get hit often by dodging. Not by running away to heal yourself.
It's not like you'll have 99 mono/di/trimates at your disposal. And top it, if the bosses are indeed faster and more aggressive, you'll find yourself still struggling to heal yourself, even if you can move.



I'll refer to Monster Hunter again. That entire (amazing) game is based on avoiding attacks and using your lengthy animations wisely and safely. Maximizing skill to minimize risk is important in all games that provide a decent challenge, PSO should be no different.

I've been referring to Monster Hunter myself aswell. Great game indeed.
While Monster Hunter also has the standing still when healing, it also provides the option to lessen the duration you stand still to watch the animation.

Skill and risk are two different things. It does not add any sort of skill. It only adds risk, but very poorly.
All the game needs are harder, fast and strong monsters and bosses.

[Zaix]

I'm on the leave it as it is side. Sure I've been brutally pwned by the healing animation but I just learned from it.

I like it because instant heals are way to easy and Forces are more useful then ever.

[Eyce_Theon]

I've been referring to Monster Hunter myself aswell. Great game indeed.
While Monster Hunter also has the standing still when healing, it also provides the option to lessen the duration you stand still to watch the animation.

Skill and risk are two different things. It does not add any sort of skill. It only adds risk, but very poorly.
All the game needs are harder, fast and strong monsters and bosses.

Quickening your item animation in MH takes investment into an Armor skill, which unless you're playing a Wide Area build are better spent on offensive skills.

Of course it only adds risk at face value. You're supposed to provide the skill to not get hit to compensate for it, the game's not gonna do it for you.

Harder, faster, stronger monsters will come in time as missions get harder, but their difficulty would be negligible if instant healing was back. You have plenty of capabilities to avoid damage in this game, unlike PSO where you had to just take some hits because there was nothing you could do if you didn't kill things in time (Morfos laser, etc.).

[catwat]

I'm sorry but... Don't the PP up skills only raise PP by a very marginal amount? Something like 20 when you have maxed out both at level 10? I could be wrong, but if not, these skills are kind of a moot point.

Also... No, uncharged Resta is not a viable way to heal yourself or a group in the middle of combat. Uncharged tech power is a joke in general. I get that you don't like to be rooted in place when using an item, but using a less effective approach is not the answer.

There are also item effects that raise your PP by a bit so it would add up together with the skills. Still maxing one of those skills is a waste, like you said.

The most helpfull skill for me as a FO in CBT was the one that lets you recover PP while charging. Also from my experiences they started out too weak at level 1 but got better and better every level. Its just a matter of skill points and equipment (Dark Ragne units mostly, and a nice striker) and by level 20 i had no problems at all and things were going smoothly.

Edit: Thinking about maxing that PP up skill i remembered something. I remember maxing one of those attack up passives on either ranger or hunter. Don't remember clearly which one, but the increase on the last few skill levels 7-10 was significantly higher. Just to add that to this..

[PSO Addict]

I think the game seems far too easy and I think elements that limit healing such as PP and the channel time really help increase the difficulty. I want to be challenged.

[Ifrian-x]

I find it funny how most people seem to think Sega added this to make the game more "strategical" when it is obvious that the only reason behind this decision is the chance to sell more scape dolls and other cash shop related goodies.

Yeah, everyone is "happy" about this change now, playing the low level content and difficulties and with half of the "voters" playing ranged classes.

But i am not sure if i am looking foward to ultimate difficulties as a HUmar, considering the past experiences.

I really "can´t wait" to start meeting 90% hp hitting, aoe spitting, unflichable monsters that rape every single melee player in range just because they can while ra´s and fo´s sit happily in the distance, shooting stuff at the mobs and wondering why the melee "noobs" are complaining instead of learning2play.

This idea looks TERRIBLE to me for the higher difficulty settings, when it comes to melee characters, but i guess we will have to see how it goes.

[Gama]

theres melle forces too, who tend to comit suicide trying to heal the nubmars. ^^

[KatsujinkenKik]

I love this stop and heal business. And I'm loving how resta works too. I love every way you must heal in this game. Its great. Dying feels awful in a good way. Moons feel good. I don't have any eloquent words. I just love the healing in this game. Love love love love.

[Angelo]

This is an intended mechanic, you can tell because of the length certain healing items take to drink.

Monomates can be chugged in half a second, while Trimates' animation take about 2 seconds to drink.

[darkante]

I find it funny how people complain about the healing animation when PSU had 10 Scape Dolls everyone could stock up on and still being able to instant heal.
Wow..

Glad Infinity fixed that.

[Zorafim]

This idea looks TERRIBLE to me for the higher difficulty settings, when it comes to melee characters, but i guess we will have to see how it goes.

You couldn't have enjoyed spamming the current highest DpS PA in PSU with no regard to defense, and chugging down HP items mid PA when you get damaged. This is what made PSU boring. How can you not be glad that it's finally being done away with?

Difficulty is balanced around dodging and healing. If you can instantly heal all of your HP, then you'll have to be in a situation where healing all your HP is necessary. If you can revive people easily, then you'll be in a situation where people die easily. If it's difficult to heal, then the game will be balanced so that you won't need to heal as often. This is a good thing!

[Arande]

I really "can´t wait" to start meeting 90% hp hitting, aoe spitting, unflichable monsters that rape every single melee player in range just because they can while ra´s and fo´s sit happily in the distance, shooting stuff at the mobs and wondering why the melee "noobs" are complaining instead of learning2play.


Difficulty is balanced around dodging and healing. If you can instantly heal all of your HP, then you'll have to be in a situation where healing all your HP is necessary. If you can revive people easily, then you'll be in a situation where people die easily. If it's difficult to heal, then the game will be balanced so that you won't need to heal as often. This is a good thing!

You responded a bit more tactfully than I as going to. I was about to just say "protip: use step and guard to avoid being hit" XD Personally this is one of the reasons I can't wait to play a full on defensive HU, assuming war cry does work as it sounds and makes enemies want to hit me. Mobs can one shot us? challenge accepted, hai guyz I'm bait! :D

In short +1 for keeping the healing animations. Only exception I might have is the time it takes to use a sol, kinda makes it hard to cure an allies stun. By the time you use it it runs out anyways.

[Blackheart521]

I can't wait to play a full on defensive HU, assuming war cry does work as it sounds and makes enemies want to hit me. Mobs can one shot us? challenge accepted, hai guyz I'm bait! :D

thank you my good sir, you're the only person I've seen on the forums other than myself who wants to play a defensive character... everyone kept telling me there's no point in raising defense stats with your skill tree if you can dodge or do a just guard to cancel out all damage, well I want to do a defensive character too and I'm happy someone else feels the same way ^^ tanking ftw

[Silenttank]

I find it funny how most people seem to think Sega added this to make the game more "strategical" when it is obvious that the only reason behind this decision is the chance to sell more scape dolls and other cash shop related goodies.

Yeah, everyone is "happy" about this change now, playing the low level content and difficulties and with half of the "voters" playing ranged classes.

But i am not sure if i am looking foward to ultimate difficulties as a HUmar, considering the past experiences.

I really "can´t wait" to start meeting 90% hp hitting, aoe spitting, unflichable monsters that rape every single melee player in range just because they can while ra´s and fo´s sit happily in the distance, shooting stuff at the mobs and wondering why the melee "noobs" are complaining instead of learning2play.

This idea looks TERRIBLE to me for the higher difficulty settings, when it comes to melee characters, but i guess we will have to see how it goes.

After playing the Pre-Open Beta I don't think any of this is a problem.

I've played Monster Hunter for many years so learning monster's attack patterns and dodging them is nothin', and after fighting the bosses in this game I can say that skills like this transfer over very well. I rarely got hit by bosses if at all and I only studied their attack patterns very subtly through videos, so it's possible for Hunter's to be in fights and still do work. I wouldn't let something like this discourage anybody for future difficulties.

[AlMcFly]

After playing the Pre-Open Beta I don't think any of this is a problem.

I've played Monster Hunter for many years so learning monster's attack patterns and dodging them is nothin', and after fighting the bosses in this game I can say that skills like this transfer over very well. I rarely got hit by bosses if at all and I only studied their attack patterns very subtly through videos, so it's possible for Hunter's to be in fights and still do work. I wouldn't let something like this discourage anybody for future difficulties.

You assume all monsters are going to have patterns that can even be dodged. One of the historically cheapest ways to increase difficulty is coding a boss that literally cannot be dodged 100% of the time. It hasn't happened really in any of the Phantasy Star games (to my knowledge), but there is always a chance the developers decide to go this route when they run out of innovative ideas.

[Zorafim]

Falz has grants, making him literally impossible to kill if your HP is under a certain value. He also had Heaven Punisher, doing a massive amount of damage based on defense. Fakis has that meteor strike which takes out a specific health amount based on your max HP. Nano dragons have an attack which homes on to you. I'm sure there's more out there.

Alright. So there are enemies that can't be dodged, and do a massive amount of HP when they hit. That's what the instant Hp recovery is for. Now that HP is harder to get back, we'll have some other way to deal with attacks like these.

[AlMcFly]

Falz has grants, making him literally impossible to kill if your HP is under a certain value. He also had Heaven Punisher, doing a massive amount of damage based on defense. Fakis has that meteor strike which takes out a specific health amount based on your max HP. Nano dragons have an attack which homes on to you. I'm sure there's more out there.

Alright. So there are enemies that can't be dodged, and do a massive amount of HP when they hit. That's what the instant Hp recovery is for. Now that HP is harder to get back, we'll have some other way to deal with attacks like these.

RIGHT! Damn, I've been out of PSO too long. That and my memory is crappy. Does anyone know how this instant HP recovery works or operates within the new game yet?

[Sp-24]

It doesn't. There is no instant HP recovery, just like there is no unavoidable damage.

[Silenttank]

You assume all monsters are going to have patterns that can even be dodged. One of the historically cheapest ways to increase difficulty is coding a boss that literally cannot be dodged 100% of the time. It hasn't happened really in any of the Phantasy Star games (to my knowledge), but there is always a chance the developers decide to go this route when they run out of innovative ideas.

If that's the case then we'll just have to adapt to certain bosses and learn what to look out for and how to deal with unavoidable things. I'm sure they'll make difficult bosses, but nothing that's impossible to beat.

[AlMcFly]

It doesn't. There is no instant HP recovery, just like there is no unavoidable damage.

Isn't there a hunter skill in PSO2 that is supposed to auto-monomate when under 50% health? Is it not activated or a reachable skill yet?

[Silenttank]

Isn't there a hunter skill in PSO2 that is supposed to auto-monomate when under 50% health? Is it not activated or a reachable skill yet?
I saw it in the skill tree in the Pre-Open. I don't know how it exactly works but if its instantaneous then it might be something to consider.

[Ifrian-x]

Truth is, none of us truly knows it because the high end content is not there yet or we did not have access to it during the beta.

People telling me there will be absolutely no issues at high end simply because they fared well at lv 20 content does not really say much nor does it prove anything.

Once the really difficult content starts rolling in, we will see.