PSO2 need better security system

[jaychaulives]

GameGuard, like seriously gameguard? In this day and age, SEGA still use this lack luster security program? It's been around for ages and there's so many hacks to get around it it's not even funny. I doubt SEGA will have the manpower to track down cheaters

[BIG OLAF]

Yes, Gameguard is hilariously easy to get past. I do wonder if there would be little else getting in the way of some malicious hackers getting on the game and ripping it asunder, truthfully.

[Sp-24]

Gameguard is very good at stopping me from playing the games it protects if I've changed the system locale, so I guess it does detect some cheating (I wasn't supposed to be able to run those Japanese games).

[DemonMike]

I guess it's their unique way of welcoming Broomop back into the community haha

[MrTurkleton]

The more that's server side, the more secure it is. I would assume sega puts some ingame checks on some things and gameguard is for extra "security"

At least it cant be as bad as the old pso dupe glitch via 2 windows open at once. Now that was just funny considering it was also able to give you 10 weapons equiped at once.


Also broomop is a joke. I dont think he does anything himself. I think he just takes stuff from the more hush hush modders and passes them off as his own

[youcantcatchtheblue]

"Why English player like to cheat and hack?"

[jaychaulives]

The more that's server side, the more secure it is. I would assume sega puts some ingame checks on some things and gameguard is for extra "security"

At least it cant be as bad as the old pso dupe glitch via 2 windows open at once. Now that was just funny considering it was also able to give you 10 weapons equiped at once.


Also broomop is a joke. I dont think he does anything himself. I think he just takes stuff from the more hush hush modders and passes them off as his own

Ya they really need to focus making things server sided. I have played over 1.2k League of Legend matches never met a hacker and that is largely due to everything is server sided in LOL.

[Sp-24]

"Why English player like to cheat and hack?"
Guess we know the answer: because Gameguard is so easy to play around with. :)

[Gama]

The more that's server side, the more secure it is. I would assume sega puts some ingame checks on some things and gameguard is for extra "security"

At least it cant be as bad as the old pso dupe glitch via 2 windows open at once. Now that was just funny considering it was also able to give you 10 weapons equiped at once.


Also broomop is a joke. I dont think he does anything himself. I think he just takes stuff from the more hush hush modders and passes them off as his own

like most crackers he probably only does it to see how far he can go...

don't think he uses other peoples exploits tho.


anyone remember optimus prime?

[Peejay]

"Why English player like to cheat and hack?"

I almost ended up on the floor laughing.

[Garteal]

Suggest a better security company?

What's wrong with Gameguard?
Back in the old days of Maple, a lot of leechers were taught to hack, and when Gameguard finally caught up, only a small amount of people were still able to hack.
It's not as easy as it used to be.
Gameguard did a great job there.

It doesn't matter what security you have, the game will always get hacked in a way.

[jaychaulives]

Suggest a better security company?

What's wrong with Gameguard?
Back in the old days of Maple, a lot of leechers were taught to hack, and when Gameguard finally caught up, only a small amount of people were still able to hack.
It's not as easy as it used to be.
Gameguard did a great job there.

It doesn't matter what security you have, the game will always get hacked in a way.

Maple hacking is still rampant. The hacking never went away or died down. It still has many loop holes throughout the years. Just google gameguard hacking and there's tons of them. Even some ancient program I won't name here , that no longer work on many mmorpg, work on PSO2

[youcantcatchtheblue]

I almost ended up on the floor laughing.

"We want English playing friend to be able to play(Help learn English), even though Close Beta is Japan only, there are group that doesn't like foreigner, and blame 630 and all problem on foreigner.

But if English player hack and break the game, it is hard to defend and say no to IP ban."

:-?

[MasterSpark]

"We want English playing friend to be able to play(Help learn English), even though Close Beta is Japan only, there are group that doesn't like foreigner, and blame 630 and all problem on foreigner.

But if English player hack and break the game, it is hard to defend and say no to IP ban."



That's what I'm afraid of.

[Krisan]

like most crackers he probably only does it to see how far he can go...

don't think he uses other peoples exploits tho.
He hasn't really ever made anything himself, he piggybacks off of other peoples work and claims it as his own. Trust me, his infamy exists only because of how loud and obnoxious he is. Most people just (unfortunately) believed him when he said he did things.

Also on the subject of Gameguard.. I can confirm that a lot of server-side checks are in place. Not saying the system is perfect, haven't probed the game thoroughly in an attempt to see how good their security is yet, but it looks alright at the moment. Certainly a step above their usual.

[Garteal]

Maple hacking is still rampant. The hacking never went away or died down. It still has many loop holes throughout the years. Just google gameguard hacking and there's tons of them. Even some ancient program I won't name here , that no longer work on many mmorpg, work on PSO2

I don't know about the situation now, I'm talking about the 2005-2006 era.

When people started spreading how to hack with Cheat Engine, the leechers copied it and abused it. It got noticed and Cheat Engine was detected. Then people started to create undetected versions of it, and so forth.

When hacking was still fresh, you could literally see people fly in Free Markets, or vacuum hack all over the place.
But when these hacks stopped getting released to the public, a lot of people (leechers) were unable to hack.

The hacking never went away obviously, but it definitely went from a 50% to 5% ratio.

Yeah, but that will soon change. Gameguard will take care of it.

[Fusioneko]

like most crackers he probably only does it to see how far he can go...

don't think he uses other peoples exploits tho.


anyone remember optimus prime?


I remember one that made it impossible for me to play GameCube :( What an ass.




Suggest a better security company?

What's wrong with Gameguard?
Back in the old days of Maple, a lot of leechers were taught to hack, and when Gameguard finally caught up, only a small amount of people were still able to hack.
It's not as easy as it used to be.
Gameguard did a great job there.

It doesn't matter what security you have, the game will always get hacked in a way.


MapleStory is a poorly coded game, a lot of it's assets are on the client side, and being around a bunch of programmers that tried to undertake certain feats. I've had the whole thing explained. (Assuming Maple is Maplestory :P ) That game is just.. ugh, yeah. To much was on the client side, server needed to do more, or somehow find a way make it more secure on the clients side.

[Cavistus]

"We want English playing friend to be able to play(Help learn English), even though Close Beta is Japan only, there are group that doesn't like foreigner, and blame 630 and all problem on foreigner.

But if English player hack and break the game, it is hard to defend and say no to IP ban."

:-?

Except Broomop is the only one hacking and breaking the game to my knowledge... so just ban him.

Broomop contacted me about the NPC partner dupe and asked if it was a hack... rofl.

[Ifrian-x]

Do not say it needs a "better" security system.
You imply that GG is actually a security system.

[Peejay]

Except Broomop is the only one hacking and breaking the game to my knowledge... so just ban him.

Broomop contacted me about the NPC partner dupe and asked if it was a hack... rofl.

You mean the pikmin? That was patched out immediately after a youtube user named trigahd published a video demonstrating how effective it is in battle (But decidedly not explaining it for good reason).

[Rauten]

"Why English player like to cheat and hack?"

You marvelous bastard, don't make me laugh while at work!!:nono:

[Thermalwolf]

So it's pretty obvious most people don't really know what Broomop is all about, and if he really did know what he was doing.

Well for starters, yes, he does know a fair bit of knowledge about PSO hacking, but this is all thanks to ********.

If yall really wanna know it was ******** that did almost ALLL of the real hacking for PSO. Broomop was ********s friend and this had access to his tools which he then changed, and sold on his website, LOADED with keyloggers I might add, but they did work on Sega servers.

I was friends with Broomop in the past and near the end of US PSOBB got caught up in using a very secure, very strong proxy tool to modify client to server packets and so forth. Undetectable and completely legit. THIS is what scares me. It doesn't matter how much is server side, if you can securely grab packets from the server and client talking, game over for us...

I don't know much about game guard quite frankly because it doesn't do anything to protect the game. Those claiming it slowed maple story hacking are only fooling yourselves. I'm sorry, but GG did not lower hacking from 50% to 5%. Maybe 50% to 30%? AND THAT WOULD BE A STRETCH!

Think of Game Guard like a fence and PSO is on one side and you are on the other. You can't just keep walking forward, the fence will stop you; BUT, you can go over, under or even around the fence with a little work. Now that's looking at it very simply, but the sad part is, it really is that simple to bypass game guard. After that it's up to Sega and how well they secure there client to server communication. It SUCKED in PSO, so my guess is they will definitely address it.

Oyeah and why didn't I mention Snowfox, Infamous Nugz, and other notable hackers from the PSO era? Because they all copied. Like I said, if you wanna blame anyone, blame ******** for being so damn smart to replicate the PSO server code :)

[D-Inferno]

Maybe SEGA and nProtect have some kind of "business deal"/contract/ect of sorts that prevents SEGA from using anything else?

[Garteal]

MapleStory is a poorly coded game, a lot of it's assets are on the client side, and being around a bunch of programmers that tried to undertake certain feats. I've had the whole thing explained. (Assuming Maple is Maplestory :P ) That game is just.. ugh, yeah. To much was on the client side, server needed to do more, or somehow find a way make it more secure on the clients side.

Yes, I'm talking about Maplestory >.<''
Do you know what assets are? Ofcourse they have to be on the clientside.
It doesn't matter if it was more server-side, that too can be easily hacked.

Pro hackers just have to stop releasing these things to the public.



Those claiming it slowed maple story hacking are only fooling yourselves. I'm sorry, but GG did not lower hacking from 50% to 5%. Maybe 50% to 30%? AND THAT WOULD BE A STRETCH!

Then you clearly haven't played the game back then.



Maybe SEGA and nProtect have some kind of "business deal"/contract/ect of sorts that prevents SEGA from using anything else?

Ofcourse they have a contract. I guess SEGA thought nProtect was it's best choice. Or cheapest.

[Thermalwolf]

Pro hackers just have to stop releasing these things to the public.


This and only this sadly....



Then you clearly haven't played the game back then.


Really? Because I WAS one of those so called 5% still hackers. Maple is terribly programmed title. I have no idea why you defend it so much XD Yes it's fun and kiddy and enjoyable but that doesn't mean it uses terrible security and allows so many assets to be left client side. Buddy, you don't know much about hacking do you :-?

All I'm saying is Maple DID have terrible security, it DID leave to much on the Client Side, and hacking thrives pretty well in it to this day. I mean shit for pretty much most of existence the top Maple Story player WAS A HACKER!

[Garteal]

Really? Because I... Maple is terribly programmed title. I have no idea why you defend it so much XD Yes it's fun and kiddy and enjoyable but that doesn't mean it uses terrible security and allows so many assets to be left client side. Buddy, you don't know much about hacking do you

Nice of you to admit that. Maple is not terribly programmed. These pro hackers have seriously damaged them though.

No, I don't defend Maple lol, I've played it for like 6 years or so (on and off), and am SICK of it.
But people mindlessly bash Gameguard without proper reasoning.

Again, you too don't know what an asset is.
I know more than hacking than you probably do.

[Peejay]

Really? Because I WAS one of those so called 5% still hackers. Maple is terribly programmed title. I have no idea why you defend it so much XD Yes it's fun and kiddy and enjoyable but that doesn't mean it uses terrible security and allows so many assets to be left client side. Buddy, you don't know much about hacking do you :-?

All I'm saying is Maple DID have terrible security, it DID leave to much on the Client Side, and hacking thrives pretty well in it to this day. I mean shit for pretty much most of existence the top Maple Story player WAS A HACKER!

You're looking to get yourself canned by posting something incriminating like that.

Also your statement contradicts itself. Basically you said Maplestory was easy and difficult to hack in the same space. What gives?

In any case, we're not talking Maplestory, we're talking PSO2. And even if PSO2 was easy to hack, do you really see a reason to, other than to be a bloated, showoffy little crap-factory? I don't think so.

[BIG OLAF]

Well, being extremely aggressive and insulting like that is basically the surefire way to make enemies, so good job there.

[Thermalwolf]

You're looking to get yourself canned by posting something incriminating like that.

Also your statement contradicts itself. Basically you said Maplestory was easy and difficult to hack in the same space. What gives?

In any case, we're not talking Maplestory, we're talking PSO2. And even if PSO2 was easy to hack, do you really see a reason to, other than to be a bloated, showoffy little crap-factory? I don't think so.

Yeah I didn't represent what I was trying to explain very well in text...

As for the incrimination part I'll probably stop posting then but all I'm trying to do is shed light to those who don't understand these kinds of things fully.

By all means y'all can hate me, I'm not a lier and I won't sit here and say what I didn't do when I actual did.

But whatever sorry to anyone who got offended, I'm just trying to help you all.


Well, being extremely aggressive and insulting like that is basically the surefire way to make enemies, so good job there.

Because I was insulted by him for trying to tell me he knew more when he obviously didn't.

I also forget PSOW isn't to fond of any of this, good intentions or not. So I'll be leaving this thread then.

But Game Guard is a joke, this I will always say, and I really wish Sega would invest in better security.

[jaychaulives]

every game I have played with gameguard has been hackfest and botfest

[youcantcatchtheblue]

You marvelous bastard, don't make me laugh while at work!!:nono:

my pleasure :D

[Peejay]

Well, being extremely aggressive and insulting like that is basically the surefire way to make enemies, so good job there.

I assume this is aimed at me, because we already have a history. I don't like you one bit as a result. Think of the moderators, they already jump on everything related to private servers, I don't think confessing to hacking would be much different. And I was TRYING to say there's no bloody reason to hack PSO2 except for ego. There is relatively little to gain.

[Garteal]

Because I was insulted by him for trying to tell me he knew more when he obviously didn't.

Sorry, I didn't mean to insult you.
Maplestory has some bad design choices though that allow(ed) client side modification.
You can't expect Gameguard to block that.
Enough about Maplestory...

An anti-hack system can only do so much.
SEGA needs active GM's that respond and investigate the reports they're getting.

[BIG OLAF]

I assume this is aimed at me, because we already have a history. I don't like you one bit as a result.

Uh, no, it was aimed at ThermalWolf. Figured that was pretty obvious. Also, we have a 'history'? News to me.

But hey, feeling can be mutual if you'd like.

[Peejay]

Uh, no, it was aimed at ThermalWolf. Figured that was pretty obvious. Also, we have a 'history'? News to me.

But hey, feeling can be mutual if you'd like.

It wasn't exactly clear, and everyone likes to think I'm being intentionally antagonistic anyways. I'm up a couple of warnings already for things I simply misphrased and apparently I'm just being a jackass when trying to make a valid point about how the game works.

Also, you already demonstrated it was mutual in the POBT, so enough out of that, kay?

[Gama]

the drama train is coming o.o

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8169566/drama.gif

[Peejay]

Hey, there goes the chance the thread will go back on topic unless someone does something right.


There really is less wrong with Gameguard than you would think, the dude is right. Especially in the fact the revision allows Steam to hook in and do its job, which is something Punkbuster expressly forbids.

Also, as far as hacking itself goes, we saw three people do it in our short time in the CBT, right? It's relatively underwhelming considering the HUGE amount of players who logged in simultaneously during the service.

I think we'll be fine. At least for now. The most we'd have to do is get them to up the revision, but that wouldn't be so hard either.

[buri-chan]

Just remember: all hackers are filthy gaijin.

[Garteal]

Just remember: all hackers are filthy gaijin.

/thread

[jaychaulives]

Hey, there goes the chance the thread will go back on topic unless someone does something right.


There really is less wrong with Gameguard than you would think, the dude is right. Especially in the fact the revision allows Steam to hook in and do its job, which is something Punkbuster expressly forbids.

Also, as far as hacking itself goes, we saw three people do it in our short time in the CBT, right? It's relatively underwhelming considering the HUGE amount of players who logged in simultaneously during the service.

I think we'll be fine. At least for now. The most we'd have to do is get them to up the revision, but that wouldn't be so hard either.

only 3 ppl made vids about it, I doubt any hackers who want to take advantage of hacking would make a video for all to see. That's like criminal posting vids of crime he committed. I'll play and pay for feature regardless, good game like this only comes once in a long time.

[D-Inferno]

Just get the hacker's ID number, report it (hopefully with a recording with it), bam.

Granted, they may make multiple accounts, but with all the AC they have to repay, they'll probably just lose interest, or be limited to Normal Forest.

[Gama]

we could always try to find and report hackers but that would probbly lead to more confusion.

like

"omg he is doing more damage then me he must be hacking!!!!"

i honestly think game guard is there to mostly filter the hacker wannabees and medium rank hackers, leaving the small amount of good hackers to be handled by Sega, there's also some people that mess with the game in a non intrusive way i guess so they shouldn't even be seen as a tread.

[TrekkiesUnite]

The problem isn't really GameGuard, it's Sega's servers. The whole reason hacking was so easy in PSO:BB and PC/PS2 PSU was because the servers were quite stupid. Meseta duping happened by going up to the NPC shop and modifying the memory value to say to the server "I'm selling 1000 scape dolls!" and the server would go "Ok here's your money!". Room hacking happened by modifying the memory value to say "My player ID is the same as the person who owns this room." and the server would go "Ok, here's full access to everything!"

No kind of external software is going to prevent that. What will fix that is programming the servers properly. The Meseta duping could easily be caught by the server simply knowing that selling 1000 scape dolls is an impossible scenario and then refusing to do it. Room hacking can be solved by not letting the client have that kind of control and making the server keep track of that kind of thing. The hacking we saw Broomop doing in the closed beta could be solved by again putting in checks. If the Server checks your position and you're in an impossible position (such as floating in the air and not falling or rising from a jump) it should put you back on the ground. If you are up running around with 0 HP it should realize that that is impossible and do something about it.

There's already implementations of both PSO and PSU that address and properly fix these kind of things. It's not that difficult.

[Vylera]

It doesn't matter what anti-hack program a game uses. Hackers will get past it within 3 days if they want to.

Just like how taking down megaupload and converting some major file sharing websites to personal file viewing only simply led to people creating more uploading sites so people can illegally DL stuff, still.

[jaychaulives]

I don't think it's possible to dupe items or modify stats in wow, LOL and couple other games I've played.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

lol the entirety of this thread is leaving me in stitches. ranging from the broken engrish y english player like 2 cheat and hack, and the two dudes LOLOLL that are like 2 negatives, similar so they don't get along.

jaychau pretty much everybody thinks gameguard is shit. this is all armchair game network developing, but i feel like the fact that some things are client sided are what make the game so responsive. i say this because of how uncannily accurate the hitboxes are in PSO2, and how you really never get messed up by lag. it's probably because something is client sided in relation to enemy position, etc. which could be exploited i guess. but i still wouldn't want them to make everything server sided even if it lead to better security because the responsiveness of the game to split second combat reaction is one of the highlights of pso2.

[catwat]

Im pretty positive anything with the inventory like picking up items is handled by the server since i notice quite some delay when picking up stuff.

[Lintor]

I haven't been paying too much attention, as I really just wanna look the other way untill they fix this, but so far...
Gameguard isn't notoriously easy to get past, its a joke, its like walking into a movie theater on a Tuesday afternoon, where no one even checks tickets. Cheat engline compliled yourself was almost always hard to detect, but running as a 64 bit process, its now impossible, I think you can just download it and win.

Stats, hits, damage, hp/pp, and movement all appear to be local. So I don't know about item hacking, but you can do god mode as it stands. Also something relating to feeding mags, I didn't really follow that very well.

[jaychaulives]

I haven't been paying too much attention, as I really just wanna look the other way untill they fix this, but so far...
Gameguard isn't notoriously easy to get past, its a joke, its like walking into a movie theater on a Tuesday afternoon, where no one even checks tickets. Cheat engline compliled yourself was almost always hard to detect, but running as a 64 bit process, its now impossible, I think you can just download it and win.

Stats, hits, damage, hp/pp, and movement all appear to be local. So I don't know about item hacking, but you can do god mode as it stands. Also something relating to feeding mags, I didn't really follow that very well.
pretty much this. That cheatengine is obsolete in a lot of games, yet works with pathetic gameguard