Looking for hints to reach higher damage on a Force.

[Abbeel]

Just some info to start.

At the moment I'm a level 10 FOnewearl with 364 Tech Attack and 178 Ability. I'm using a +7 Card Weapon that gives me 132 Tech Attack with no special abilities.
None of my spells are above level 3 and I have yet to find RAfoie or any non-primary elemental Tech other than Resta.

My current talent tree is below. I intent to pick up Charge PP Revival and I'm unsure what to do after that.
http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?00FO!IE4OI2Ic0

My damage is starting to lag behind, rarely reaching 200 damage no matter which spell I use. It's beginning to take me 5+ of whatever spell I use to kill things. A lot more for birds and those furry pill bug things.

Any help increasing my damage would be appreciated. I realize my weapon and techs are crappy, but I'm just unsure of where to find better. The shops always have the same weapons and techs and I rarely find anything new while down in the Forest. I'm unsure of whether or not I'm going in a positive direction for my talents as well.

Edit: Figured out the Auction House. Bought as many level 4 Techs as I could and a new card weapon to bring my Tech Attack up to 400. Let's see how things have changed.

[Abbeel]

The straw that broke the camel's back and sent me her to ask was this Duel boss showing up and taking an hour or so for me to slowly beat down.

http://imgur.com/5P4mI,lGl5F,JIVR7,4Abz5,9eXT8,xPgQH,1JaSs,P2C12,8a tVf,ZIRkr,lcFdI,eAqWC,MtkAc,e0E1d,gEGLZ,JjoHi,GZdZ j,s9Mkt,4HY77,lslg7,5SeqA,ftbRN,YtHka,TFwOu

[Tenlade]

Forces kinda lag behind at the start, but once you get rafoie and gizonde, what you don't do in single target damage, you make up for is completely demolishing swarms of mobs. I suggest putting in charge pp revival, then points into Tech Charge advance. You'll be able to spam more charge skills and do more damage with them.

If you want a lot of single target damage, and have some patience, (ie waiting until about level 20) restarting and using the barta tech tree will give you freeze ignition which can do up to 800 damage on a frozen enemy once a minute (its hard to pull off unless solo though since other players will just break the frozen status off with attacks before you can use it). And photon flare, which will give you 200 t-atk for a few seconds in exchange for becoming a glass cannon with your max hp reduced.

Also get some npc parters if you're soloing, there's a terminal on the ship before starting the quest you can recruit from. Get maloo to come with you a couple of times until you get Grants, which will help a lot on enemies weak to it.(you'll have to talk to her and select the top option[talk] after getting a couple s-ranks with her]

[Ana-Chan]

The straw that broke the camel's back and sent me her to ask was this Duel boss showing up and taking an hour or so for me to slowly beat down.

http://imgur.com/5P4mI,lGl5F,JIVR7,4Abz5,9eXT8,xPgQH,1JaSs,P2C12,8a tVf,ZIRkr,lcFdI,eAqWC,MtkAc,e0E1d,gEGLZ,JjoHi,GZdZ j,s9Mkt,4HY77,lslg7,5SeqA,ftbRN,YtHka,TFwOu

Umm, you know that the Dark Ragne in the field is designed for 12 people, so it does take forever to solo don't you?

Anyway, what are you expecting, the time for a tech to charge is about the same for a hunter's combo, and each of those without skills on a similarly leveled hunter is around the same for a single charged force tech. Quite a lot of techs hit multiple enemies too, so you are going to be able to do that damage over a large area.

Forces aren't designed to be the same as hunters or rangers, they have a completely different role in a team. As an example of how powerful forces are though, I was doing a free field forest run in a team comprised of two hunters and a force (I'm the force in this case), we got to the end and started off the boss. Since all of us went in at once, two rockbears appeared, I took care of one and the two hunters took care of the other. It took those two hunters around the same amount of time to kill thier rockbear as it did for me to kill the other. I just needed an extra hit or two, that was all.

Most of the time, you would be concerned about causing damage on as many enemies as possible, so really, after a while, damage to a single monster will start to be less important especially when you start getting gi and ra techs. Remember almost all force techs can hit multiple enemies, the same can't be said for hunters or rangers.

So don't think of forces as anything equivalent to a hunter or rangers, forces are long range, wide area damage dealers. And if a single hit started doing more, then forces would be over powered.

[Ueno54]

I got GiGrants level 3 and its hilarious. 3 casts takes down anything besides the bosses in caves and 2 kill the dagen enemies. Has a bigger AoE than I expected too.

I should also mention that bosses aren't too bad if you use the right element on their weakness.

[pikachief]

Remember almost all force techs can hit multiple enemies, the same can't be said for hunters or rangers.

So don't think of forces as anything equivalent to a hunter or rangers, forces are long range, wide area damage dealers. And if a single hit started doing more, then forces would be over powered.

I have a rifle PA that can hit multiple enemies at once.

I use my grenade launcher take out multiple enemies at the same time all the time. Up to 5 sometimes. :P Single hit doing more would be fine. If a ranger can weak shot an enemy in the face, then snipe it for massive damage, i dont see a problem with Forces getting strong single hit techs.

[Ana-Chan]

I have a rifle PA that can hit multiple enemies at once.

I use my grenade launcher take out multiple enemies at the same time all the time. Up to 5 sometimes. :P Single hit doing more would be fine. If a ranger can weak shot an enemy in the face, then snipe it for massive damage, i dont see a problem with Forces getting strong single hit techs.

And why does that help the OP? Unless this is a subtle hint that the OP should just change to ranger and never look at force again. You can find multi hit PAs on hunters as well, but that is again a pointless thing to say since that is the role of hunters.
But this post is about forces and what to expect from forces, not to attempt at "see, my class can do that too" to somehow defend your favorite class.

[pikachief]

And why does that help the OP? Unless this is a subtle hint that the OP should just change to ranger and never look at force again. You can find multi hit PAs on hunters as well, but that is again a pointless thing to say since that is the role of hunters.
But this post is about forces and what to expect from forces, not to attempt at "see, my class can do that too" to somehow defend your favorite class.

I really enjoy forces. You were just saying rangers couldn't and rangers can. I find forces very strong and do good damage. I was throwing out my input on how they could possibly change it in the future to make them more on equal playing fields.

I do not feel at all that they should change to ranger, but instead work with different play styles of force until they find something they like.

Each tech has its use. Each group of enemies can be tackled a different way by using a certain spell. Just Attacking, correct elements, charging, and equipment can all effect your damage output. Find what techs work for each scenario and try to improve on that in any way you can :)

I didnt get to a very high level as a force, but they did not seem weak too me and I enjoyed them too :) I hope the you find something that works! :D

[Nemhy]

I got GiGrants level 3 and its hilarious. 3 casts takes down anything besides the bosses in caves and 2 kill the dagen enemies. Has a bigger AoE than I expected too.

I should also mention that bosses aren't too bad if you use the right element on their weakness.

Where did you find that Disc? o_O

[TerminalMontage]

Where did you find that Disc? o_O

I would like to know this as well, I only just got Grants, and I'm level 21.

[Ueno54]

I found it for 124k on the AH >..>
[spoiler-box]
http://i.imgur.com/zKsm6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FvvUQ.jpg

Took some screens.[/spoiler-box]

[GrandTickler]

i heard if u do S rank maps a certain times with a npc (probably the force quest giver?) you will be rewarded skills if u select the first option? something like 5-10-20-30 times? is this true and what skills do u get from it? maybe thats where gigrants come from

[Abbeel]

So don't think of forces as anything equivalent to a hunter or rangers, forces are long range, wide area damage dealers. And if a single hit started doing more, then forces would be over powered.

Are you sure you're in the right thread? This is about tips for increasing Force Damage, not whether or not Forces are balanced for single target damage alongside the other classes.

[futamieriko]

Where did you find that Disc? o_O

It's also a gift from Maloo if you have her friendship maxed out and have received Grantz from her already.

[Ana-Chan]

Are you sure you're in the right thread? This is about tips for increasing Force Damage, not whether or not Forces are balanced for single target damage alongside the other classes.

Of course I'm in the right thread. I was putting a base line on the kind of damage you should expect as a force. Also compare the basic class to the basic abilities of the other classes, including how long it takes to charge, and damage per hit. Most of these questions occur because the original askers expect different things.
I was also pointing out the very important thing of how most techniques are able to hit multiple enemies with no artificial limit on them that I've been able to see so far. The major limiting factor on techniques are the range and/or area of effect. So I've been able to get some of the more advanced techs to do much more damage just by hitting more enemies. Well, not even the more advanced techs, just basic foie can cause impressive damage just by making sure that other enemies get glanced by the tech. So, the most effective way for increasing damage as a force is to make sure you hit multiple enemies. If your force is capable of hitting for 300 damage for a single enemy, then hitting 5 will easily push your damage per hit up to 1500 damage, with no extra pp being spent for that.

Of course, if you want the boring answer. Level up, find higher level tech disks, put more into your tech attack on your mag, and if you want, try to use just attack. Maybe there are some units out there which increase your tech attack too.

[holmwood]

Upgrade your weapons and mag, lol.

[Abbeel]

I have updated my weapon, started feeding my mag for straight up T-attack, went on the AH and bought the highest rank of spells I could learn/afford(4 usually) and I also went and did the affection-grind for Grants. Working on Gigrants at the moment.

I have a few more questions now, though.

Wind Elemental gear. What's up with that? Are there wind techs eventually?

Any quick ways to get any of the support techs(anti, shifta, deband, jellen, zalure, ryuker, reverser) through client orders or affection?

Edit: And do techs need to be cast through the mouse hotkeys while holding a force weapon to get the force weapon's bonuses or t-attack? Or is the 1-0 hotbar okay?

Edit 2: Non-force-related-question. Are those floating flash-drive things that trigger a cutscene important for anything? Should I be clicking them all?


Of course, if you want the boring answer. Level up, find higher level tech disks, put more into your tech attack on your mag, and if you want, try to use just attack. Maybe there are some units out there which increase your tech attack too.
Is there a Just Attack for techs? Or were you just referring to weapon attacking, because I already do that. Just Attacks are really easy with cards, so I see no reason not to.

[pikachief]

I have updated my weapon, started feeding my mag for straight up T-attack, went on the AH and bought the highest rank of spells I could learn/afford(4 usually) and I also went and did the affection-grind for Grants. Working on Gigrants at the moment.

I have a few more questions now, though.

Wind Elemental gear. What's up with that? Are there wind techs eventually?

Any quick ways to get any of the support techs(anti, shifta, deband, jellen, zalure, ryuker, reverser) through client orders or affection?

Edit: And do techs need to be cast through the mouse hotkeys while holding a force weapon to get the force weapon's bonuses or t-attack? Or is the 1-0 hotbar okay?


Is there a Just Attack for techs? Or were you just referring to weapon attacking, because I already do that. Just Attacks are really easy with cards, so I see no reason not to.



Hot key in the mouse for the weapon bonus. Hotbar is casting it from yourself, if you attach it to your weapon (hotkey it to your mouse) then you are casting it through your weapon.

And yes Just Attacks are for techs too. You do it exactly the same as with any other weapon. Also don't forget to charge your techs.

And there should eventually be wind techs as there is the wind element instead of earth.

[terrell707]

Hot key in the mouse for the weapon bonus. Hotbar is casting it from yourself, if you attach it to your weapon (hotkey it to your mouse) then you are casting it through your weapon.

And yes Just Attacks are for techs too. You do it exactly the same as with any other weapon. Also don't forget to charge your techs.

And there should eventually be wind techs as there is the wind element instead of earth.

If you have a force weapon equipped and cast through the 1-0 hotkey bar, it still fires through the weapon. However, idk if you get the weapon's power added to the tech still.

Also there are no dark techs yet either so I'm sure wind and dark will be added in a future update. Maybe even more Fire and Ice, etc.

[Ana-Chan]

Any quick ways to get any of the support techs(anti, shifta, deband, jellen, zalure, ryuker, reverser) through client orders or affection?

I got my anti from Echo, shifta and deband should also come from affection too, but I haven't been using my NPCs as much as I should.


Is there a Just Attack for techs? Or were you just referring to weapon attacking, because I already do that. Just Attacks are really easy with cards, so I see no reason not to.

This works the same with techs. So if you attack and at the right time start casting, or cast once and at the right time cast the next tech, then the just attack will apply to the tech and boost damage slightly.

Oh, and I forgot to mention earlier too, shifta actually applies to tech attack in this game in addition to physical attack and ranged attack. So try shifta (there is an item that gives this, or use one of the force NPCs.)

[Randomness]

It's also a gift from Maloo if you have her friendship maxed out and have received Grantz from her already.

Maxed? Hardly.

In order, I believe she gives Grants, consumable, consumable, Gigrants, consumable, Anti, more consumables, for each 5 S ranks.

The JP wiki has a list of all of the gifts - there's a LOT of PAs in there.

The other force girls starts with Resta 1, which is pathetic, but eventually gives Shifta and Deband 5.


I do wish Grants and Gigrants would DROP somewhere. They may just be as rare as Deband is. I've seen only one Deband disc drop, from the rare red crates. Ever. I promptly used it. (Okay, I got it once in CB too, also in forest)

So yeah, burn up some missions with the NPCs. Good for when you're leveling a new class or something - and plenty of soloable missions when grinding. (The desert free mission is trivial with Gigrants, as it just melts through the hordes of dark enemies, mangles most mechs, and can shred the boss and all its tentacles at once with a giant blender of light)

Overall, Grants is mediocre (aim is shit in TPS mode, basically), and Gigrants is godly... I basically use almost nothing but Gigrants and Rabarta to mow down normal enemies. And half the bosses in the game (Gigrants works great on Ragne too, just by being good damage+light element).

Actually, Gigrants was the worst tech in the CB - it was bugged and only hit once. One hit of 80-100 damage is bad. Six is awesome.

[Gardios]

I personally thought Grants was pretty good myself, at least against single target enemies. ~300% for 20PP is nothing to scoff at.

[Abbeel]

Good for stagger and confusion spam on monsters that are durable and have good AoE. Rafoie trivializes it for damage though, and casts much faster (provided you went the PP Revival route). Grants is the best spell ever for breaking those roadblocks though.

Gigrants is amazing though, and the range is ridiculous.

I love Gigrants.

[Zyrusticae]

FYI, Grants is by far the best attack for hitting weak points on Darkers, especially the bosses like Dark Ragne (where you can actually swat it from the sky if you lock on to its weak point while it's open). It always hits the target, without exception. It can never miss, and unlike Zonde, it doesn't suffer from accidentally hitting the wrong target due to a larger AoE (or a ridiculous base PP cost).

[Ana-Chan]

FYI, Grants is by far the best attack for hitting weak points on Darkers, especially the bosses like Dark Ragne (where you can actually swat it from the sky if you lock on to its weak point while it's open). It always hits the target, without exception. It can never miss, and unlike Zonde, it doesn't suffer from accidentally hitting the wrong target due to a larger AoE (or a ridiculous base PP cost).

I know what you mean there, but with the Dark Ragne it is sometimes annoying to get a lock on the weak point. If it is being awkward, I tend to lock onto the middle of the back and rafoie that. It hits the weakpoint but the damage is much more variable than grants (~450-~650 per hit compared to grants' ~120 for each individual hit for the tech (remember that grants hits 6 times total for each charged cast).) So if I can get the weakpoint pretty quickly then I will use grants, if not then I will rafoie.