Why 7,8 & even 9 are afraid of 3 & 5 !

[Night Blade]

Warning: For Elitists Eyes Only !

Greetings my fellow Elitist Arks Members, In this post id like to discuss forging our level cap weapon pallets based on the stat ratio differences between 3 and 5 star weapons verses A-ranks(7-9 star weapons). With the introduction/return of Weapon Special abilities in Pso2 making those best of the best, highest attack, 50%, 10/10 weapons has become quite interesting. As many of us are finding out, a lot of our precious A-rank weapons(specifically 7 stars) fail in comparison to 3 and 5 Star grade weapons. Although some 8 and 9 stars rival and surpass 3 & 5 stars at base stats, when grind'd, its a whole new ball game. You'll find that not all weapons have the same maximum potential as others. In other words some 3 & 5 star weapons when grind'd to 10 (excluding special ability's) will have higher atk/tech then most 7-9 stars(Not all of them ofc, just the majority).

With that point, this leads me to reason number one why 7,8 & 9 stars are afraid of 3 & 5 stars. Number of grinders required to place each grind on a 3 or 5 star weapon, One. Number of grinders required for a 7-9 star weapon, two per grind.

Reason number two is fairly obvious. The failure rate of 7-9 star grinding compared to 3 & 5 stars.(keep in mind the maximum potential i mentioned earlier)

The next step on forging any elitist weapon is of coarse getting those 50% attributes. We all know how this part works, find or purchase the weapon with the correct attribute you desire. Next grab a synthesizer and 1 to 3 of the same weapon(with the same attribute for maximum % increase ofc). Than rinse and repeat until 50%. According to the PSO2 fan blog, "Attribute + Same Attribute (1-29%) = +2% per synthesizer/weapon." Most weapons we find in missions or discover with attributes are between 10-22%. Using 22% as an example you would need 14 copy's of the same weapon with the same attribute to reach 50%. (50%-22%=28%, divided by 2% = 14) If you don't have the same attribute it will require even more copy's of the same weapon.

Reason number three, why 7-9 star weapons are afraid of 3 & 5 stars is the amount of effort, time, & meseta involved in making a 50% attribute weapon, clearly the drop rate on 3 & 5 stars will make them much easier to acquire 14 or more copy's of.(keep in mind everything we've discussed so far).

The Final Step when forging these bragging rights weapons is adding A Special Ability grade V(5), five being the highest grade possible atm for SA's. Possibly one of the most discouraging aspects with multiple SA's(special abilities) failure rate in reapplying them all each time since PSU's sea bed days of grinding those phantoms to 9 and watching them disappear going to 10 grinds. :(
Anyway, back on topic, There are many SA's you can add to your weapons, but when it comes to us elitists, we only care about one thing, NUMBERS ! This involves 3 specific SA's:

パワー = Power || Striking + 10
シュート = Shoot || Ranged + 10
テクニック = Technic || Tech + 10

In order to reach grade V power, shoot, or technic you must first find a weapon with grade I(1). Now if that weapon has the element you want, than congrats to you. However if your like the rest of us, chances are it wont. So to get grade I(shoot for example) on a weapon without it you'll need to find a second weapon, same type AND same number of slots as the one you'd like to add grade I shoot to. Now getting grade I is the easy part. Going from grade 2-5 is when things become ugly. You need to find the exact same weapon with the same number of slots on it again and again. Than either find a grade II, III, or IV power, shoot, or technic already on it or make them yourself by combining lower grades and than combining that weapon with the grind'd/50% one. Now heres the best part, when upgrading each SA, it has a chance to not apply and either downgrade to the previously level or not even be on said weapon at all anymore. You can imagine how irritating this would be on a 7-9 star verses a 3-5 star weapon.

So the final reason and biggest of all as to why 7-9 star weapons are afraid of 3 and 5 stars is of course the evil, despicable journey one must take to get to grade V special abilities.

In conclusion looking at the total possible damage on a maximum +10 grind'd potential 3 or 5 star weapon with 50% attributes and grade V Special abilities compared to the average +10, 10-29% grade I-III 7-9 star weapon, which grade weapons will you be carrying around PSO2 community elitists?

[Crimson Exile]

+10 50% weapon with rank 5 ability. If the 9* weapons out dmg the 3-5* weapons then I will more than likely switch over. But obtaining rank 5 abilities is draining my pocket's, as well as increasing attribute % is costly as well.

[Angelo]

but when it comes to us elitists, we only care about one thing, NUMBERS ! This involves 3 specific SA's:

パワー = Power || Striking + 10
シュート = Shoot || Ranged + 10
テクニック = Technic || Tech + 10


Hm, I don't really agree. I find working with the utility of other SAs to be a bit more dynamic and 'deep'. Granted, more numbers certainly help. You can be an 'elitist' about anything, even being a defense-based character, putting all your SP into HP up, Defense Stance, and Warcry.

[DreXxiN]

Nice post, OP. I will collect rares for the sake of collecting rares but for TA and efficiency I will consider grinding and min maxing B rank gear :)

[Kanore]

rares look cooler and based on how easy hard mode is it doesn't matter what weapon you use

so i'll use the cool weapons

[NoiseHERO]

> First 30 levels of the game which is still in testing

> People are spending all of their money on making maxed stat'd equips

> Rock is amused!

[Vylera]

> First 30 levels of the game which is still in testing

> People are spending all of their money on making maxed stat'd equips

> Rock is amused!

This ^

The rares in this game need a serious buff. I'm not going to stuff my bank full of rares just so I can stare at them. I want them to actually do something besides 5% exp and freeze 2.

Even a Vol-soul 2 star hunter weapon from hard mode dragon kicks the crap out of the rares we have available.

For the time being, I'm selling every rare I get since MyShop is free of charge.

Until we start getting rares that are actually for more than just lobby eye candy, I'll be using my vol-soul hunter weapons and 5 star guns.

[Angelo]

What were those tickets called in PsPo2 and Infinity?

The ones you could use to make any rare viable end game?

We need those.

[eharima]

sure is charge vulcans in here ^^

Right now im rollan with the compromised 5* easier to get cost efficent wearz.

but when AC comes out and we can get decent assist items, DPS RARZ here we go.

[Macman]

I'm using the shitty DB Saber of PSO2 and the common-as-hell 7* rifle grinded to +6. Neither with elements. What are you gonna do about it? :cool:

Also in the end, 7*+ items have larger modifiers for being grinded. Despite the pain and torment of trying to grind those to +10, they will still be the best option for high-end stats.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

reason why this info is good but in the end idgaf

DAT LUCKY RAISE ON RARE WEPUNS

[BIG OLAF]

What were those tickets called in PsPo2 and Infinity?

The ones you could use to make any rare viable end game?

We need those.

Those were "Extend Codes", and for those who don't know, they were special tickets you could use to 'extend' any +10 weapon beyond it's statistical power limit, giving it more power and accuracy. It also allowed you, in some cases, to add a bonus effect (such as Burn, Freeze, Stun, etc.) to the weapon as well.

Yes, PSO2 needs a mechanic like that, I think.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Those were "Extend Codes", and for those who don't know, they were special tickets you could use to 'extend' any +10 weapon beyond it's statistical power limit, giving it more power and accuracy. It also allowed you, in some cases, to add a bonus effect (such as Burn, Freeze, Stun, etc.) to the weapon as well.

Yes, PSO2 needs a mechanic like that, I think.

extend coded weapons also had a super awesome effect whenever you switched to them. it was a nice touch

[BIG OLAF]

extend coded weapons also had a super awesome effect whenever you switched to them. it was a nice touch

Ah, yes. Forgot about that. They'd have that burst of light whenever you took them out. Was cool.

[GoldenFalcon]

Your Power ability section is flat-out wrong.
If you have a cool 5* sword, for example, you could use a 1* assault rifle that has power 1 to put it on the sword. Then, you find a rod and a partisan that both have power 1, then combine all the power 1's into a power 2 on the sword.

The only difference between it and a 9* sword is the fee to attempt adding an ability.

[Bibimbap]

I'm using the 8-star rod and I hit for 1700. I think I'll stick with rares.

[Angelo]

Those were "Extend Codes",


Thank you, I couldn't remember the name for the life of me (but I'm also pretty hammered at the moment).

I would even fork out AC for such a thing, which is probably what will happen.

[jooozek]

I would even fork out AC for such a thing, which is probably what will happen.

Why do you think so? That's pretty pay2win, and Sakai claimed to avoid stuff like that from what I've heard. Then again, eh, every free to play game is bound to get pay2win stuff. Wouldn't be surprised if stuff like that popped up half a year after launch.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

@pay to win comment

i feel like rares being so weak unless grinded to high levels is a form of "pay to win" if you will, considering you can get items to reduce chances of failure for grinding through AC. it honestly seems like a cash shop gimmick to me.

but i don't mind, it's not really that bad. i'd rather this than flat out buying super strong rares.

[Rob2003ert]

Why do people think rares are weaker than normal weapons...? If you think that, you're comparing low level rares with high level standard weapons, which is completely silly. I'm not sure why you guys keep referring to element effects as percentages either when we're still not sure how they work. I've done some brief testing with 50 element weapons and the damage boost isn't significant. You guys really need to stop assuming how stuff works based on PSO/PSU and actually test these things before passing off information as fact. I've spoken to a lot of people in game who claim it's a straight up 50% damage boost which is completely laughable and incredibly wrong.

As for rares vs normal weapons in terms of standard base attack: rares win in every single weapon category (and in some cases, by ridiculous amounts). You can make exceptions for a couple based on not easily meeting the attack requirements to equip them (Wire Lance for example, the best one requires 458 which almost nobody is gonna hit in OB, so the 5* one is your best bet until you can), but with the right build they're equippable and the current best.

[Spellbinder]

Why do people think rares are weaker than normal weapons...? If you think that, you're comparing low level rares with high level standard weapons, which is completely silly. I'm not sure why you guys keep referring to element effects as percentages either when we're still not sure how they work. I've done some brief testing with 50 element weapons and the damage boost isn't significant. You guys really need to stop assuming how stuff works based on PSO/PSU and actually test these things before passing off information as fact. I've spoken to a lot of people in game who claim it's a straight up 50% damage boost which is completely laughable and incredibly wrong.

As for rares vs normal weapons in terms of standard base attack: rares win in every single weapon category (and in some cases, by ridiculous amounts). You can make exceptions for a couple based on not easily meeting the attack requirements to equip them (Wire Lance for example, the best one requires 458 which almost nobody is gonna hit in OB, so the 5* one is your best bet until you can), but with the right build they're equippable and the current best.

I don't think its a matter of which is weaker so much as which is more feasible to grind and make stronger. You can waste a million meseta trying to make a +10 8 star weapon and end up with only +6 or you can spend a quarter of that on a +10 5 star weapon that's stronger.

[Rob2003ert]

Did you miss this?

Warning: For Elitists Eyes Only !
We're talking best of the best here. Of course if you're bad at making money it's more feasible to get a cheap weapon. The discussion here is which is the best, not most bang for your buck. I'm certainly rocking a couple of 5* weapons right now, but the moment I'm actually able to get a damn タルナーダ to drop (or see one for sale) you can bet your ass I'll be using it immediately.

[Spellbinder]

Did you miss this?

No... no I did not. The original post is talking about why 3 and 5 star weapons are better. I'm simply agreeing with him. Problem?

[Rob2003ert]

The problem is they're not better, and the entire topic of the thread is discussing which is the best (because that is what elitists strive for), not which is the most feasible to attain.

[UnLucky]

Warning: For Elitists Eyes Only !

In conclusion looking at the total possible damage on a maximum +10 grind'd potential 3 or 5 star weapon with 50% attributes and grade V Special abilities compared to the average +10, 10-29% grade I-III 7-9 star weapon, which grade weapons will you be carrying around PSO2 community elitists?

PSO2 community elitists will be carrying around +10/50%/grade V/9 star weapons

Of course you can use a +10 1 star weapon as a backup for when you inevitably reduce your rare to scrap, but the end goal doesn't change.

Are you really going to sit at cap with a +10 common weapon? That's it, you've beaten the game? Dance in the lobby and regurgitate symbol chat all day?

[youcantcatchtheblue]

Nice OP.

*drools at the thought of 9-star +10/50%/V5*

[Kanore]

Did you miss this?

We're talking best of the best here. Of course if you're bad at making money it's more feasible to get a cheap weapon. The discussion here is which is the best, not most bang for your buck. I'm certainly rocking a couple of 5* weapons right now, but the moment I'm actually able to get a damn タルナーダ to drop (or see one for sale) you can bet your ass I'll be using it immediately.

the clearly defined best of the best in pso2's english community would probably be the people who've had the least social interaction

ever

[iwerkout]

PSO2 community elitists will be carrying around +10/50%/grade V/9 star weapons

Of course you can use a +10 1 star weapon as a backup for when you inevitably reduce your rare to scrap, but the end goal doesn't change.

Are you really going to sit at cap with a +10 common weapon? That's it, you've beaten the game? Dance in the lobby and regurgitate symbol chat all day?

I guess you can say you "beat" an MMO by getting the best character with the best gear, and so on.
But in all honesty, you don't "win" an MMO. You either enjoy what you're doing on it, or don't. Simple as that.
The whole "elitest" thing probably could of been left out, but I understand the purpose. My vote is the 10/10 50% w/e 9*'s are best of the best. At the top grinds, they simply have the best numbers. It's just a lot easier to achieve about the same results (damage wise) with a lower star weapon, which I think should of been the focus here. Not the "elitest" thing, w/e you were trying to come up with OP. No offense, just stating so there may be less confusion. (Unless your point was to make this a discussion/argument, then well played sir.)

[velociti]

I agree with iwerkout, and also: remember that we are lvl 30, and lowbie rare weapons, like in EVERY PSO game are just about as strong as all the weapons you can use currently. I'd say the 7 and 8 star weapons are items like Flowen's Sword, H&2 whatever Justice/Vise, Varista, and cross scars etc.
When we get into the higher levels, 50+, rare weapons will always outcompete normal weapons statistically and cosmetically, its a good guess.
(you know, high lvl rares are just really powerful, but a cross scar is a rare, but lowbie rare, and is awful stats)
on a side note, BWAH! http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7758/pso20120701111126000.jpg
that's the highest base stat sword (rare) in the game, and at +10 it could easily destroy any weapons, and btw, its a HUGE weapon!

edit: by the way, theres a 546 damage sword +10, the other one that nobody can equip. So obviously, grinders do MORE on rare/high lvl weapons. it went from like 300 something to 546.

[KanekoSaya]

> First 30 levels of the game which is still in testing

> People are spending all of their money on making maxed stat'd equips

> Rock is amused!

I lol'd.

[Rob2003ert]

edit: by the way, theres a 546 damage sword +10, the other one that nobody can equip. So obviously, grinders do MORE on rare/high lvl weapons. it went from like 300 something to 546.

Rares get 175%. 5* stuff gets 160%.

[DreXxiN]

looks like i hit too close to home

And looks like for some reason you take pleasure in upsetting "nerds" though it didn't work on this one.

Also I'm only level 28 so not exactly close to home. My days of elitism are over...for now :D

[DreXxiN]

On topic, I'm wondering if I've made a mistake primarily maxing an ability mag for my RA spec'd into Standing Hit. I know it's supposedly better for crits, but it looks like I might just try and raise a full ranged atk mag on release, since this one is about 66/33 in terms of ability to ranged attack. I DO know for efficiency purposes I should probably replace some of my ability affixes with ranged attack though D:

[Bibimbap]

I don't think its a matter of which is weaker so much as which is more feasible to grind and make stronger. You can waste a million meseta trying to make a +10 8 star weapon and end up with only +6 or you can spend a quarter of that on a +10 5 star weapon that's stronger.

I spent less than 100k grinding my weapon to +10 AND giving it +50 more bonus Tech. :-?

[Rob2003ert]

On topic, I'm wondering if I've made a mistake primarily maxing an ability mag for my RA spec'd into Standing Hit. I know it's supposedly better for crits, but it looks like I might just try and raise a full ranged atk mag on release, since this one is about 66/33 in terms of ability to ranged attack. I DO know for efficiency purposes I should probably replace some of my ability affixes with ranged attack though D:

Probably depends on how your build is set up. Obviously can't speak for future caps, but right now you need 458 R.Atk to equip the best Rifle in the game. RAcaseal (highest R.Atk class) has 336 R.Atk at level 30, so you would need to make up 122 between your MAG and skill tree passive just to be able to equip it. If your skill tree is set up so that you don't get the R.Atk passive, even a 99 R.Atk MAG isn't gonna help you equip it so it's up for debate as to whether pure or split is best in that case.

And speaking of affixes, don't underestimate non-r.atk raising ones, especially on rifles. I was doing some status effect tests earlier and discovered Poison does a pretty huge 1659 damage per tick to Caterdran on Hard mode. With Poison III on my Rose Bouquet it was landing frequently too.

[UnLucky]

just pay real world cash money and go pure R-Atk, pure Ability, four different hybrid builds, and another set of each but with varying amounts of defensive stats

oops you can't wear level appropriate gear because you didn't spec into your primary defensive stat

oops your primary offensive stat capped out before you hit max level, now your pure offensive mag is worthless

oops your final mag evolution isn't the one you wanted and now it's stuck like that forever

$3 ea plz kthx bye

[Night Blade]

Thank you so much everyone for your reply's. I loved reading about everyone's opinions about skill tree combinations, mag stat combinations, and ofc all the other amazing !!! special abilities out there, such as my personal fav's, Mutation I and Vol Souls. <3 <3
I especially enjoyed reading about the addition to status effects on weapons. I'm sure many of us recall how awesome that 1st seed magashi encounter was when someone applied burn xD.
With this many combinations of stats, gear, and play styles all ready available to us in just a beta !!!!!! We can only imagine how amazing the finished product will be !!!

Keep those numbers growing my fellow elitists and i hope to join you all in block 2, emergency mission free zone. :-P