Endless runs(where does it end?)

[Agitated_AT]

I found myself really getting bored doing back and forth grind runs and when I join a party it's usually for client orders or just a quick regular run whilst fighting every enemy in the way. I avoid getting myself bored with this terrible and boring way of play.

The big issue is however, almost no one plays this way. Parties especially where exp is profitable, exist only of grind manifests. The biggest problem is that playing that way is encouraged. I like to join a party, but this issue almost forces me to play solo because everyone get's mad when I go and finish the mission, which is hilarious.

So yeah I ended up soloing mostly, which sucks alot. I don't know about you guys, but I think a run needs an end eventually for the player to wanna reach his goal. In all the previosu games it wasn't such a problem because enemies didn't respawn, and the roads were linear. Here it causes for gameplay issues. You have the freedom to play however you want to, but it causes issues and clashes people's goals instead of making them all do the same like in pso1. So in this regard, the freedom only works against the game imo.

What do you guys think, should there be an end eventually to every mission? Should a client order person have guarantee that when he joins a party, they're not gonna stay there forever and become mad when he finishes the quest? Or is everything just fine like this?

Express your thoughts even if you disagree and are fine with it. If not, what is the solution?

[Zero_Virus_X]

Force people to name their runs. Al thought then we have the language barrier issue.

[Crimson Exile]

Depends on who and what party you play in. I see your point though. I enjoy the game by soloing bosses timing myself and working toward getting better equipment. I don't grind crazy either so it doesn't bother me.

[sugarFO]

I love endless multiparties. I can stay as long as I like, fight a few bosses, get a few PSE bursts... Its fun to me. Farming in this game isnt like other games because the combat is so enjoyable.

[Ryo]

I have to agree. I actually enjoy farming in PSO2. Most other games I find it tedious as all get out, but the combat here is so good that PSE bursts are ridiculously exciting.

[darkante]

I prefer grinding in areas more then just completing the mission.
Particulary when PSE is going and bosses & mini-bosses appears in mid-mission.

[RocSage]

Why are you grinding alone? That's when you should play in a party. Client orders are the solo things.

In other words... "You're doing it Wrong"

[SaiKo]

I've got to agree...
A lack of progression and no endpoint pretty much kills my drive and motivation, so just running around and killing **** gets real old real fast for me.

[Somnia]

I don't understand. I do my volcano and tundra client orders daily in multiparty because it's super fast. When you're done, you simply just leave the party and no one minds. I think multiparties are the best way to do these orders because they are just a grind anyway.

If you want to join parties to kill the boss, there are groups for that too. If you don't mind playing with the Japanese, if you see a party with Sランクボス周回 (S Rank Boss Runs) in the title, that maybe close to what you're looking for. Though, they do not slay every enemy along the way and completely ignore area one, we only kill just enough for S rank. These groups are everywhere in populated blocks outside of 20/21.

Koffee quests used to be plentiful to find parties on, but most players are beyond that point so you're behind the curve there. As for those odd orders like taking Alfin through Subdue Fongalf, well, you're on your own. I also recommend making friends if you wish to raise Clessida's likability, as not many people seem to be interested in her dailies.

I think the gameplay you seek will be easier for you when the NA servers are launched, and English players aren't as shy so you can find like-minded players. But as it is now, there are already enough parties offering the gameplay that you seek. You probably just can't read the titles of games to know that!

[RocSage]

You can take parties with you for those "bring only NPC with you" you just can't bring other NPCs.

[KrankItVZ]

Grinding for me now is for 2 reasons:
- Feed my mag all the hunter weapons
- Sell to buy better equipment

Getting higher Tier equipment somehow is damn satisfying in this :P I'm well over equipped for my level I'm sure (at least quest progression wise)

But yea the best thing so far is speed runs on the City emergency for loot with others

[Agitated_AT]

Why are you grinding alone? That's when you should play in a party. Client orders are the solo things.

In other words... "You're doing it Wrong"

I think there should be something fun with purpose to do while i'm getting grinded. The focus on grinding shouldn't be so high. My level should be the last thing on my mind while i'm playing the game. I should be playing solely because of it's fun and engaging content. I have only found this in client orders so far. I consider Grinding for the sake of grinding as shallow gameplay that lacks substance. While I think there is a fundemental issue in pso2, I think the client orders have gave me good enough goals to progress.

If my way of playing is wrong and your way of playing is right, then pso2 seems to be a very shallow game, though I don't wanna believe that and think pso2 is still in a blooming process. Basically alot of issues can still be fine tuned and changed as they become more prominent. With all the content in the game, farming is very much encouraged so people that wanna rush towards the next area, are quickly going to join the grind missions (nab rappy hard/ cathadran hard and that final desert mission)

I understand client orders are just side things, but I believe they should be able to be done within parties as well, without them having to be endless grind manifests. This way everyone can enjoy each others company instead of having people get upset each time I finish the quests.


I don't understand. I do my volcano and tundra client orders daily in multiparty because it's super fast. When you're done, you simply just leave the party and no one minds. I think multiparties are the best way to do these orders because they are just a grind anyway.

If you want to join parties to kill the boss, there are groups for that too. If you don't mind playing with the Japanese, if you see a party with Sランクボス周回 (S Rank Boss Runs) in the title, that maybe close to what you're looking for. Though, they do not slay every enemy along the way and completely ignore area one, we only kill just enough for S rank. These groups are everywhere in populated blocks outside of 20/21.

Koffee quests used to be plentiful to find parties on, but most players are beyond that point so you're behind the curve there. As for those odd orders like taking Alfin through Subdue Fongalf, well, you're on your own. I also recommend making friends if you wish to raise Clessida's likability, as not many people seem to be interested in her dailies.
You're talking about collection client orders. What you are doing now is only look at your own gameplay style and forget the bigger picture. The title can say whatever, the problem is that alot of people's goals will clash instead of the game always encouraging the players to stick and work together. This was always the case in the old pso/u games so this is defenitly not a good thing. If it were in those games, I would have been able to collect, complete and finish my client order and at the same time help out the party getting to the goal at least everybody is forced to get to. In this game it's endless and you're unwanted if you even try to get to the real mission. They even kicked me out a gew times

There is a real fundemental issue in this game. I'm allready noticing people ignoring client orders and just farm their way to tundra, so all the other missions are close to empty in most blocks.


I think the gameplay you seek will be easier for you when the NA servers are launched, and English players aren't as shy so you can find like-minded players. But as it is now, there are already enough parties offering the gameplay that you seek. You probably just can't read the titles of games to know that!

You see, I really think this is bs. This is ignoring the issue and make the best of it, which I respect when people decide to do that. I know it's not an issue to you, but it's still a issue from a gameplay standpoint, especially when it's a long going franchise with a good trackrecord. There shouldn't be need for communication to organize a good game. It should be as simple as joining a game, and have at least 1 clear goal that eventually has an end.(that doesn't involve running back and forth to grind)

[FerrPSO]

What can I say, I enjoy hunting for codes more than going straight to the boss, it can result in pretty epic situations (like yesterday with 3 codes at once, one of them Duel).
Maybe is because I was used to grinding for 3 hours in the same spot with the same monsters in FFXI, but in PSO2 the codes make grinding more varied and fun.

Also I got lucky finding awesome ppl in the other parties of the multiparty areas, and having fun with them talking and joking while grinding.

[CharAznable]

It's getting boring ...

There's no content. I think i'm gonna stop and wait for us/euro release. Hoping when they do they also gives us everything the japanese version has already or i won't play it eather.

[RocSage]

I think there should be something fun with purpose to do while i'm getting grinded. The focus on grinding shouldn't be so high. My level should be the last thing on my mind while i'm playing the game. I should be playing solely because of it's fun and engaging content. I have only found this in client orders so far. I consider Grinding for the sake of grinding as shallow gameplay that lacks substance. While I think there is a fundemental issue in pso2, I think the client orders have gave me good enough goals to progress.

If my way of playing is wrong and your way of playing is right, then pso2 seems to be a very shallow game, though I don't wanna believe that and think pso2 is still in a blooming process. Basically alot of issues can still be fine tuned and changed as they become more prominent. With all the content in the game, farming is very much encouraged so people that wanna rush towards the next area, are quickly going to join the grind missions (nab rappy hard/ cathadran hard and that final desert mission)

I understand client orders are just side things, but I believe they should be able to be done within parties as well, without them having to be endless grind manifests. This way everyone can enjoy each others company instead of having people get upset each time I finish the quests.


They can be done in parties, just not all of them. Generally speaking you should be grinding and doing dailies and doing most things in a party.

There is only a few things that you should be doing as solo. And that is imo, the things that others would find annoying for you to be doing in a group. For example, me running around watching every event tablet is probably extremely annoying in a party so I shouldn't do it in a party. Doing a lot of low level runs quickly, probably shouldn't do that in a party either, but just about everything else, as long as you state what you're doing should be done in party, especially "grinding"

And yes if you ARE grinding, really grinding, not what people call grinding, then the game design is flawed. Grinding is when you are playing to gain levels to do something else. Any time you are not doing something else and gaining levels just because you are doing stuff then you are not "grinding." PSO for example is not grinding, even though people consider it grinding. In PSO people played to look for rares. They just happened to gain levels while they were doing that. in PSO2 lvl 20-30 is more or less just a grind because there is nothing to do and while you can hunt rares there isn't really anything that you would likely like to hunt due to there being higher level areas with better rares.

[Somnia]

There shouldn't be need for communication to organize a good game. It should be as simple as joining a game, and have at least 1 clear goal that eventually has an end.(that doesn't involve running back and forth to grind)

I gave you the solution to that already. If you want a single one clear goal that everyone shares, join a boss game just as I told you. The games exist around the clock, they are not only for Tundra, you just have to know how to find them. These are the closest games you'll get to what you want right now. Not everyone shares the same goal as you, and its possible that those who do want to play the same way as you are just as lost right now. If you want to join a party for a single client order everyone wants to complete, well, that's just tedious.

I'm sorry if you are looking for an experience like Forest to Falz runs where you slay every single last monster in every room, but that's been long gone since the day PSU launched. Those games were rare enough as it was during Blue Burst, you'd have to date back to the early Gamecube days to play that way. If that isn't what you are looking for, then please clearly state what your intentions are. I'm assuming that you have played a Phantasy Star Online (not Universe) game before; if not, then maybe PSO2 is just not something for you.

[Flame]

i think the dude just wants more content. People wouldn't have to grind in endless areas if there was something to accomplish from levels 20 - 30

[Ranmo]

How is he doing it wrong? lol. If hes leveling effectively by himself I doubt hes doing it wrong.
This grinding is exactly why I play alone. I join a multi-party in my own group, join in on the action for a while and then just go and complete the mission my self.

The only time I actually full out grinded in a multi-party was to get to 30. After that leveling was pointless to me. Now I'm just Leveling slow while doing orders, matterboard, and hunting for items.

What level are you, OP? Wouldn't mind playing with you.

My post sounded negative against grinding. Im not really against it. It just gets boring over long periods of time imo, but I effectively mix the MP grind and just completing a field alone.

[Agitated_AT]

I gave you the solution to that already. If you want a single one clear goal that everyone shares, join a boss game just as I told you. The games exist around the clock, they are not only for Tundra, you just have to know how to find them. These are the closest games you'll get to what you want right now. Not everyone shares the same goal as you, and its possible that those who do want to play the same way as you are just as lost right now.

I'm sorry if you are looking for an experience like Forest to Falz runs where you slay every single last monster in every room, but that's been long gone since the day PSU launched. Those games were rare enough as it was during Blue Burst, you'd have to date back to the early Gamecube days to play that way. If that isn't what you are looking for, then please clearly state what your intentions are. I'm assuming that you have played a Phantasy Star Online (not Universe) game before; if not, then maybe PSO2 is just not something for you.

Since PSU launched? Are you sure because I think there was always a goal of getting to the end in those games too. You're giving me solutions around the issues, but I am more expressing how they should get rid of the issues. The japanese people have more saying in this but as of now the english community has really been quiet. The thread was really just to see how many others find issue in how PSO2 is built to encourage back and forth grind manifests, but if there are so little people finding issue with this, I am kind of surprised especially when it's guaranteed they are used to something else unless PSO2 is their first phantasy star game.

It's becoming prominent to even those who don't care, which is a good signal imo. Personally I hope the japanese community will notice themselves, or maybe better, sakai himself notices the flaw.


@Ranmo and Flame

I know there's the freedom of choosing how to play yourself. I had great runs with a friend where I would be checking every corner once and then progress to the next area. When I play with him, I love the game because he's accompanying me doing the same "non-boring" goal(and he enjoys it more that way too). But why restrict me to only play with friends instead? This is where freedom only causes clash. To every mission there should be something that forces players to reach the end imo. A time limit wouldn't do that so that's not a good idea. Otherwise I really think they should rethink the format alltogether.

I'm level 28 ranmo

[Quatre52]

I'm fine either way, I'm there for the fun of playing and hanging out with some cool people. If we finish the mission, cool, if not, its still fun.

Really tho, you call something a "flaw" that really isn't. In the past games it was "encourages" to go to the end of a mission simply because there was no other option. Now we have an option to really run around and enjoy the whole area, explore every inch of a map, or simply kill stuff all night in one section, its like a truly endless "Endless Nightmare" run.

[gigawuts]

You have to like the level. I personally find the tundra very visually appealing, with interesting enemies. I like it as much as I liked the mines in PSO1, which is saying something.

The mines for me were probably the best level of PSO1 Ep 1. It was the first level to bring in segmented rooms with many entrances, it had radically contrasted enemies, and it was very visually appealing.

The tundra covers most of that tit for tat. Probably my favorite thing about the tundra is the war of the giants thing it has going on - I love seeing a king yedi duking it out with a guwanda. Snow levels are always my favorite, and the blizzard effects are pretty great (unless you spin your camera around really quick, then they start looking cheap...they do cost less to render though, I suppose).

[Agitated_AT]

I'm fine either way, I'm there for the fun of playing and hanging out with some cool people. If we finish the mission, cool, if not, its still fun.

Really tho, you call something a "flaw" that really isn't. In the past games it was "encourages" to go to the end of a mission simply because there was no other option. Now we have an option to really run around and enjoy the whole area, explore every inch of a map, or simply kill stuff all night in one section, its like a truly endless "Endless Nightmare" run.

WHich was exactly what kept and encouraged the party to stick together, and what is the issue in this game. Everyone can have a different goal so the party experience is not the same anymore, and in my opinion worse. In your opinion it may not be, but just look at people allready complaining about not finding parties at alot of places(which in my case is, not finding parties that actually wanna do the actual mission). It's because many players forget about the client orders which do encourage players to go back and do older missions, instead they're endlessly grinding at 1 place

[MoonlightMyau]

I gave you the solution to that already. If you want a single one clear goal that everyone shares, join a boss game just as I told you. The games exist around the clock, they are not only for Tundra, you just have to know how to find them. These are the closest games you'll get to what you want right now. Not everyone shares the same goal as you, and its possible that those who do want to play the same way as you are just as lost right now. If you want to join a party for a single client order everyone wants to complete, well, that's just tedious.

I'm sorry if you are looking for an experience like Forest to Falz runs where you slay every single last monster in every room, but that's been long gone since the day PSU launched. Those games were rare enough as it was during Blue Burst, you'd have to date back to the early Gamecube days to play that way. If that isn't what you are looking for, then please clearly state what your intentions are. I'm assuming that you have played a Phantasy Star Online (not Universe) game before; if not, then maybe PSO2 is just not something for you.

I don't want to be rude but that's utter nonsense. I appreciate that people didn't need to clear every monster in a room when TTF came out in PSO & therefore didn't, but people still worked towards the end goal.

The same goes for PSU - it may be dominated by white beast or event missions (when they're there) but people do still tend to band together against the main goal of the mission.

However, people are entitled to play the game the way they choose.

[Somnia]

I don't know if you guys spend all day posting instead of playing the game, but I am telling you here and now, people do play this game with this "common goal of clearing the mission." We just do so without killing every monster. Not every game is a multiparty grind fest.

I can't tell what else the OP wants or if BusterNewman even read my post, but from what I understand you can play the game the way you want to *with other players* if you just spent less time complaining.

[Oniyoru]

Why are you grinding alone? That's when you should play in a party. Client orders are the solo things.

In other words... "You're doing it Wrong"

Actually some of Koffe's requests r easier in party, depending of ur class

[Jakosifer]

You want to finish the mission? MAKE A COMMENT STATING IT SO THAT PEOPLE WILL KNOW BEFORE JOINING.

[Oniyoru]

That works on "when you create the party", but not when you join...

How many parties out there have wrote comments?
Plus the language factor...

[MoonlightMyau]

I don't know if you guys spend all day posting instead of playing the game, but I am telling you here and now, people do play this game with this "common goal of clearing the mission." We just do so without killing every monster. Not every game is a multiparty grind fest.

I can't tell what else the OP wants or if BusterNewman even read my post, but from what I understand you can play the game the way you want to *with other players* if you just spent less time complaining.

Your posts seemed to imply that the OP wanted to clear every single monster in a room, which from what I can tell isn't what they said. The OP appeared to be saying that they wanted to share a goal with other players and clear the mission, instead of running around and just killing or having different people in a party with conflicting goals.

You also seemed to imply that people playing/working together to get to the end goal of a mission vanished in PSOBB, which is not the case. I am sorry if i misinterpreted what you said/meant but that's how it came across to me.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

in japanese these rooms are generally going to be titled

マルチへうろうろ

マルチへぐるぐる

for rooms that kill stuff but still attack boss they're going to be titled (usually)

ボス周回

if you wanna figure out if a JP party is going to do the endless stuff you don't want just ask:

マルチへぐるぐるしますか？

and if they say はい then leave. and if you don't wanna be curt and leave without saying anything say

あ、そうですか。それではまたよろしくです。失礼します。

[DoubleCannon]

Try and get in a multi area with 12 HUMAN players.. no NPC's and you will see a huge boost in excitement, bosses, codes, pse bursts / cross bursts. Items everywhere! A ton of exp! I just managed to go from level 22-24 in free desert with my group of 4 plus others but they had npc's.. it still caused alot of things to spawn and codes + ragne and antlion things.

[Raspeyer]

Oiy, I usually just run through the missiosn myself most of the time. Everyone else I have had the enjoyment of playing with seems to do so as well. Besides, can't the other people just stay in the mission even though you left? More loot for them anyways.

[Agitated_AT]

Try and get in a multi area with 12 HUMAN players.. no NPC's and you will see a huge boost in excitement, bosses, codes, pse bursts / cross bursts. Items everywhere! A ton of exp! I just managed to go from level 22-24 in free desert with my group of 4 plus others but they had npc's.. it still caused alot of things to spawn and codes + ragne and antlion things.
This may be a little unrelated to the topic, but I just wanna say that i've experienced multiparty's like this and I don't find enjoyment in them at all. Bear with me.

The excitement in these sort of runs are very superficial to me, as the excitement is based around "the fireworks". Its very action packed but also very easy and not engaging. Don't get me wrong however, I think it'sl a very great part of the game so I like that it's in there, but being part of it for an hour or more in a grind manifest is really boring to me and make me yawn.

@deldelight

Thanks for your replay, but my point really was that there shouldn't be divisions at all in the core gameplay and I consider it as a flaw within an mmorpg. Especially in a franchise as pso, where there had always been a great emphasis on teaming up and working together in contrast to other mmorpg's.

Everyone should be able to enjoy each other's company without existing conflicts. There shouldn't be a moment where one says: "let's head to the boss" and where the other says, "no I wanna grind some more". There should be a general encouragement which makes the players head to the boss eventually. Even better I would love it if the multiparty's were more rare and they changed the single party's in something similar to the previous games, without the respawned enemies, with the gates and all those stuff. Really if they did this I can only imagine it doing the game much good.

Multiparty's are a great concept, but I would have liked it more if they weren't so frequent, instead more rare. That would only make them more special and exciting as a result

[Oniyoru]

in japanese these rooms are generally going to be titled

マルチへうろうろ

マルチへぐるぐる

for rooms that kill stuff but still attack boss they're going to be titled (usually)

ボス周回

if you wanna figure out if a JP party is going to do the endless stuff you don't want just ask:

マルチへぐるぐるしますか？

and if they say はい then leave. and if you don't wanna be curt and leave without saying anything say

あ、そうですか。それではまたよろしくです。失礼します。

Hmmm, hey PSO2 have copy and paste? Cause otherwise XD I can't type the kanjis without knowing the sound =0
What? I'm full screen haven't try anything like that yet XD thanks.

[youcantcatchtheblue]

I wish there was a way to ban NPCs from joining your room. That would make multi-party areas a lot better imo.

[Darki]

I know there's the freedom of choosing how to play yourself. I had great runs with a friend where I would be checking every corner once and then progress to the next area. When I play with him, I love the game because he's accompanying me doing the same "non-boring" goal(and he enjoys it more that way too). But why restrict me to only play with friends instead? This is where freedom only causes clash. To every mission there should be something that forces players to reach the end imo. A time limit wouldn't do that so that's not a good idea. Otherwise I really think they should rethink the format alltogether.

So your point is that you not only want to play the way you want with your friends, you actually want to force everybody to play that way so you can join randoms and do what you want.

Very mature.

Your idea of the time limit has been proven useless already. I assume you've tried City runs in hard mode, and there people just hang in the 2nd area till time runs out, then rinse and repeat. Your idea would only make people do the same everywehere. We don't have any purpose (save client orders) to do S runs, unlike PSU where you'd be rewarded points for your class, so there's no need to do so. For that you'll have time attack missions, that is true, we have only one, for now. More will come.

You know, I do like playing the way you say. I actually play that way when I feel like, and the only thing I gotta do is to look for people with similar goals. I don't really see any need on restrigcing other people's fun just because I would like everybody to play my way so I can do "fun randoms" with about anybody. If you really love the game when playing with your friends, why don't you do so, instead of complaining about the way other poeple play?

You have the option to play your way. I have the option to play a different way. So play the way you want and leave my way alone. Jesus.

[Spellbinder]

I'm sorry but I just can't see the problem.

You can play with friends who want to run through with you.

You can write a comment for your party or look for one that's not just running around.

Or you can just join one of those running around parties as a separate one. When you've had your fill, the other however many parties aren't going to complain, they aren't in your group when you leave to go finish your objective.

I don't want to sound rude, but you say you end up soloing a lot. Where's your friend list / team at?

[Darki]

Apparently the problem is that he can't do random runs as he wants, doesn't seem to have any problem with his friends. :/

[Silenttank]

I get what you're saying, and I feel the same way sometimes. Sad thing is that running back and forth in multi-party area's is the best way to get EXP. I would love to go through a mission and fight the boss in maybe 10-15 minutes, and get really good EXP. It would make the grind feel less painful at times to, like you said, have some sort of goal to accomplish while getting EXP. To me it's not really completing a goal, but when it comes to grind I like to have checkpoints so to speak, like I get this much exp after doing this run after this much time. I know some might not agree with this but I like having segmented gaps to work with, it makes things easier for people. Hopefully SEGA can find a way to make it so people can finish runs for optimal EXP compared to grinding multi-party.

[Darki]

But that's what most missions are. It's true that you don't get doors blocking the way, but you do get killcounts, targets, time limits, etc. You're also going to get Time Attack missions where you do have a time limit to finish the mission and the goal is to do it as fast as possible.

I suspect that you're referring to the free missions, and I can't agree with you on that. As the name implies, they're "free". There isn't any point on having free missions if they'd be limited like the normal ones. I don't really like the fact thet they're not really that "free". For me "free" missions would be actually much larger areas with more than 2 blocks and a boss fight. Apparently you're in a planet, but all you explore is a tiny bit of it. If you asked me, I'd actually make it worse for your tastes: free missions would have at least 5 areas, no bosses other than the randomized Code: Duels arpund the place, and no "end" to the mission ever, just go there and cancel when you're done. That's what "free" areas would make sense for me.

I don't see any problem in your playstyle, in fact as I said before I like to play in a bit more linear way, annd just to break the monotony I prefer just to hang a bit in the multi area, clear the mission and then start again rather than stay in the same for hours. But I don't like the fact that the OP seems to want to force his style of playing into the rest, talking about restriuctions and his dismay as not being able to join any party he wants and do exactly as he likes. Why not just allow for both? They'd better add more linear missions for those of you who prefer them, and leave the more "free" ones for who likes them.

[Agitated_AT]

So your point is that you not only want to play the way you want with your friends, you actually want to force everybody to play that way so you can join randoms and do what you want.

Very mature.

Your idea of the time limit has been proven useless already. I assume you've tried City runs in hard mode, and there people just hang in the 2nd area till time runs out, then rinse and repeat. Your idea would only make people do the same everywehere. We don't have any purpose (save client orders) to do S runs, unlike PSU where you'd be rewarded points for your class, so there's no need to do so. For that you'll have time attack missions, that is true, we have only one, for now. More will come.
No lol, read my last sentences again. I myself allready mentioned how stupid that idea would be. What would be a great idea though, would be to add a time element to the ranking system and give rewards for S ranking. Tbh this would help the issue a great deal!!




You know, I do like playing the way you say. I actually play that way when I feel like, and the only thing I gotta do is to look for people with similar goals. I don't really see any need on restrigcing other people's fun just because I would like everybody to play my way so I can do "fun randoms" with about anybody. If you really love the game when playing with your friends, why don't you do so, instead of complaining about the way other poeple play?

You have the option to play your way. I have the option to play a different way. So play the way you want and leave my way alone. Jesus.
My problem with the game is how it divides the players in that way, so the freedom in that case isn't a good thing. People that are out to grind will find their partners within an instant, while those who think it kills the game for them, will find almost nobody. People leave my game when I say, i'm gonna head to the goal for example. This is because playing it the grinding way is alot more rewarding, while I think playing that way should be less rewarding.

But as I mentioned above, a time element in the ranking system would help out alot if S ranking's reward was greater than then running around back and forth to lvl.

Another thing I would think helps would be the enemies giving less and less Exp after awhile(starting from 25/30 minutes?). Don't know if this is a good one but you tell me. An MMO game needs elements like this to keep people together. Big MMo's fail because of how the community system are so lackluster in them. This was however pso's strongest point. Everyone knows pso1 was alot less fun playing it solo

[Razelis]

I also find the PSU's way more fun. Bring back laser fences and gates with keys, and not spawning monsters.

I find it a lot of fun to reveal and clean a whole map, and that's impossible on PSO2. And without the fences, when everyone cap their chars everyone are just going to rush all the missions ignoring mobs and just killing bosses...

Running for 15 min to the boss and fighting it for 1 min = not fun in my book XO

Good thing me and my friend usually play in locked party (we unlocked a few times but whoeevr joined expected a rush run and that got kind of annoying)

I too wish it will change, or there will be new additional mission type, like Quest missions, where rank is based on clearing all rooms, and you can not skip rooms!

Edit - Ill add that i DO enjoy the current free missions, but i always complete them

[Darki]

No lol, read my last sentences again. I myself allready mentioned how stupid that idea would be. What would be a great idea though, would be to add a time element to the ranking system and give rewards for S ranking. Tbh this would help the issue a great deal!!

Not really. People would still grind as monsters would never end, the rewards wouldn't be that valuable, because the fact that they would be mission prices would make them less. Money rewards couldn't be that significative either, or it would break the economy. If you made exp restrictions based on time, for example, people would just play for a while, cancel and restart. In the end people would do whatever the fuck they want.


My problem with the game is how it divides the players in that way, so the freedom in that case isn't a good thing. People that are out to grind will find their partners within an instant, while those who think it kills the game for them, will find almost nobody. People leave my game when I say, i'm gonna head to the goal for example. This is because playing it the grinding way is alot more rewarding, while I think playing that way should be less rewarding.

But as I mentioned above, a time element in the ranking system would help out alot if S ranking's reward was greater than then running around back and forth to lvl.

Another thing I would think helps would be the enemies giving less and less Exp after awhile(starting from 25/30 minutes?). Don't know if this is a good one but you tell me. An MMO game needs elements like this to keep people together. Big MMo's fail because of how the community system are so lackluster in them. This was however pso's strongest point. Everyone knows pso1 was alot less fun playing it solo

No, your problem is that you still go with the "do it my way" opinion. Face it, this mechanic exists already, and there's people habituated to it, and people who likes it, and people who would be upset if they took it off them. I know I'd be. If tomorrow they announced that they'd go and change the game so missions are more PSO style, they'd be alienating those players the same way that you think you're being alienated. Then there would be people complaining, like you, that this game is too linear and doesn't allow for grinding or hanging in missions indefinitely. If this game offers a system that many people enjoy, the problem is not theirs, is yours. You say that the game has to keep the community together, but you seem to ignore the fact that a great part of the community is indeed together doing that sort of missions, it's you who doesn't go with the flow. If you don't wanna run solo, make more friends, dude, like most of us do, and let others play the way they want.

Also, I don't know what sort of MMOs have you played, but in my book most MMOs are all about giant fields with no missions, no fences, no goals, just areas where monsters never stop spawning, bosses popping once in a while and no problems with the community.

I understand your problem, but I don't like your solutions, because they all address a change of mechanics that would affect everybody, even those who would like to play in a completely diferent way as you do. The solution is not to crap on what others like so you can find more randoms, the solution would probably be easier and more community-friendly if they just added more linear missions so whoever wants to do them, could, and whoever likes to grind, would do too.

[Agitated_AT]

Not really. People would still grind as monsters would never end, the rewards wouldn't be that valuable, because the fact that they would be mission prices would make them less. Money rewards couldn't be that significative either, or it would break the economy. If you made exp restrictions based on time, for example, people would just play for a while, cancel and restart. In the end people would do whatever the fuck they want. Here you are speculating but only from a side from where it wouldn't work. I know you are all fine with how the game is, but at least try to see things from a non biased way. It could work. Yes the rewards you are naming are not good, but there could be rewards that are worth it.




No, your problem is that you still go with the "do it my way" opinion. Face it, this mechanic exists already, and there's people habituated to it, and people who likes it, and people who would be upset if they took it off them. I know I'd be. If tomorrow they announced that they'd go and change the game so missions are more PSO style, they'd be alienating those players the same way that you think you're being alienated. Then there would be people complaining, like you, that this game is too linear and doesn't allow for grinding or hanging in missions indefinitely. If this game offers a system that many people enjoy, the problem is not theirs, is yours. You say that the game has to keep the community together, but you seem to ignore the fact that a great part of the community is indeed together doing that sort of missions, it's you who doesn't go with the flow. If you don't wanna run solo, make more friends, dude, like most of us do, and let others play the way they want. Well then you're just being selfish in my opinion. I am part of a minority. What you don't seem to wanna grasp is that some people don't wanna play the way you do. Now what better way is there to satisfy everyone? See this is the question that goes through my mind. While you are having more of a "deal with it" stance, I have been trying to think about solutions to make everyone satisfled, you have only been trying to counter them with excuses like, don't go against what is esteblished allready. No that is not my intention!! The solutions i've been suggesting like, the time element in the ranking system, and the fewer exp gain as you go around too much, will only bring everyone together and not go against what is esteblished. It just won't be as rewarding or at least more balanced with doing other stuff. SO people will have more of a choice in this regard instead of having 1 option that is alot more profitable.


Also, I don't know what sort of MMOs have you played, but in my book most MMOs are all about giant fields with no missions, no fences, no goals, just areas where monsters never stop spawning, bosses popping once in a while and no problems with the community.
"Big MMo's fail because of how the community system are so lackluster in them. This was however pso's strongest point. Everyone knows pso1 was alot less fun playing it solo"



I understand your problem, but I don't like your solutions, because they all address a change of mechanics that would affect everybody, even those who would like to play in a completely diferent way as you do. The solution is not to crap on what others like so you can find more randoms, the solution would probably be easier and more community-friendly if they just added more linear missions so whoever wants to do them, could, and whoever likes to grind, would do too.Ok, my solutions may not be great, but they aren't to be taken seriously anyway. My point is, what some people consider to be a shallow way of playing, is encouraged in this game, moreso than doing more interesting stuff beside mindless going back and forth grinding. That is the point. The solution however may need more time to figure out and even some testing if it came from the gamedesigners point of view. Personally I really don't think the devs intended for people to play the way they're doing. This is what I hope at least because it's really dividing or forcing people to play 1 way over the other if they want to experience a good party experience.

I keep playing while replying to these posts, and I do feel that i'm in a minority and am treaten as one. My game with names like "regular run" or "No mindless grind" with comments added are not being visited. Again this is the case because that way of play is alot less rewarding than what the back and forth grinders are doing.

[Darki]

Here you are speculating but only from a side from where it wouldn't work. I know you are all fine with how the game is, but at least try to see things from a non biased way. It could work. Yes the rewards you are naming are not good, but there could be rewards that are worth it.

Any rewards that you can think of would not be worth it, because they'd lose their worth due to repetition, or they'd turn the mission into spamfests.


Well then you're just being selfish in my opinion. I am part of a minority. What you don't seem to wanna grasp is that some people don't wanna play the way you do[/B].

it's funny how you address on me the same exact issue that you're showing. So isn't it selfish that you want everybody to play the way you want just because you'd find more random parties that way?

As you just said, "what you don't seem to wanna grasp is that some people don't wanna play the way you do". You're talking about forcing your playstyle in others, and I'm just saying that I'd rather have both playstyles, in the form of different types of missions, than everybody doing the same shit just because I don't like the way they played before.


Now what better way is there to satisfy everyone? See this is the question that goes through my mind. While you are having more of a "deal with it" stance, I have been trying to think about solutions to make everyone satisfled, you have only been trying to counter them with excuses like, don't go against what is esteblished allready. No that is not my intention!!

Lolwut?

In what part of your argument is implied that youu wanna satisfy everybody? I find that funny, you're so blinded by your own opinion that you don't see you're just describing yourself. Your "solutions" have been all about changing the way people play, and it seems you've been ignoring completely where I've been describing you ways that would make everybody happy, not just you and whoever doesn't want go to hell. I'd recommend you to read more carefully what others answer to you because you're making me think you jusr read fast, get whatever you want and ignore the rest.

You're just assuming that everybody would be happy by playing your way, and that's just plain selfish for your part.


The solutions i've been suggesting like, the time element in the ranking system, and the fewer exp gain as you go around too much, will only bring everyone together and not go against what is esteblished. It just won't be as rewarding or at least more balanced with doing other stuff. SO people will have more of a choice in this regard instead of having 1 option that is alot more profitable.

The solutions that you were talking about would most likely make people to play the same way, but restarting missions every 30 minutes. And you'd jut have added a hindrance to everybody without acomplishing anything, congratulations. And no, people wouldn't have a choice, their only choice would be "play my way or suck it up with the penalties". Apparently my suggestion of being able to choose different types of missions wasn't good enough for you.


"Big MMo's fail because of how the community system are so lackluster in them. This was however pso's strongest point. Everyone knows pso1 was alot less fun playing it solo"

Not all big MMOs have fallen, and none of them had PSO style.


Ok, my solutions may not be great, but they aren't to be taken seriously anyway. My point is, what some people consider to be a shallow way of playing, is encouraged in this game, moreso than doing more interesting stuff beside mindless going back and forth grinding. That is the point. The solution however may need more time to figure out and even some testing if it came from the gamedesigners point of view. Personally I really don't think the devs intended for people to play the way they're doing. This is what I hope at least because it's really dividing or forcing people to play 1 way over the other if they want to experience a good party experience.

So, why wouldn't you like that, instead of forcing people to play your way, there were both types of missions? You know, if I had to choose between playing your way not liking it, or not playing, I'd just not play and let you enjoy your amazing ideas alone.

What you want to do isn't to encourage different ways of playing the game, you just want people to play the way you do by restricting and putting penalties in any other playstyle. I don't see how would that make the community more happy and together.

They're even adding new types of missions, like time attacks where the challenge is to finish the mission, but you don't seem to like those, either.


I keep playing while replying to these posts, and I do feel that i'm in a minority and am treaten as one. My game with names like "regular run" or "No mindless grind" with comments added are not being visited. Again this is the case because that way of play is alot less rewarding than what the back and forth grinders are doing.

I wouldn't really join a mission whose name is "no mindless grind". I'd see it kinda rude. :/

And yet, your solution is not to make new missions in a style that would please people with your tastes so whoever likes grinding, grinds, and whoever likes linear playing, does so; no, your solution would be to turn every mission in a "do it my way or enjoy the penalties".

[SaiKo]

Set up an episode on each planet and present them in a PSO-esque way; feature landmarks in each locale, give the stages a degree of linear progression with long, continuous levels, have bits of story interspersed here and there, etc. And contain each one fully within a single instance.

Then leave the current challenge-mode/endless grindfest setup as is and add non-descript versions of each environment introduced in the episodes as an option for those that prefer it.

Everybody wins.
But it won't ****ing happen. :-(

[DreXxiN]

A business trying to make money will cater to the majority. I have to agree with Darki here..if you don't enjoy yourself maybe the game is not for you until they release new content?

As is currently there's no reason to modify pre-existing missions if about 80% are happy with it and 20% aren't. It would be a bad decision even if it makes you happy no matter how they modify. It's a better idea for them to make new missions that touch the minority of the player base and keep the strong, established idea that the majority likes as clean and fun as possible to those players that will keep playing and like the missions the way they are.

I don't know how to make a good comparison for this...but..It's like wanting to play competitive Starcraft 1 on "Slowest" speed. You're asking for something very specific; the majority of the community would rather play on the "fastest" speed when laddering and thus Blizzard would not change that specific ladder to fit your needs, but rather keep it as an option later on for 'custom' games. If you said "1v1 Lost Temple Slowest" it's the same thing as making your "No grinding" room names. People aren't joining....because they don't like it...and they like the standard playstyle that other parties embark on.

I just want you to understand what you're basically asking is "I want them to change what's tried and true so more people join my parties because I enjoy it more. Darki's idea is a lot better and I think more content that satisfies more people is better than altering pre-existing content.

[Zyrusticae]

endless grindfest
This amuses me.

I remember someone once said something to the effect of: "Everybody likes grind done right. Problem is so many folks are terrible at expressing this and just say they don't like grinding when what they really want is grinding that they can't notice."

[Vylera]

Personally I really don't think the devs intended for people to play the way they're doing.

So Emergency Codes, Change Over Codes, PSE Burst and Cross Bursts were accidents that the devs put into the game just because they felt like it? These random occurances are the reason why people explore every inch of a map for as long as they want to, because the benefits from hitting a code and re-exploration FAR exceed the benefits of clearing and restarting.

If I'm not mistaken, the early PSO2 teaser/ad videos emphasized ADVENTURING, not repeating the same exact forest mission 100 times. PSO2 was designed to be more open than your standard one dungeon, one path dungeon crawler.

Hell, they even give you the option to skip EVERYTHING and just go rush to the last mission code just in case you aren't into the whole adventuring thing.

This is probably the first time I've seen someone disappointed that the game lets you do MORE.

With all due respect, if you want to just straight run through everything when you KNOW for a fact that most people prefer taking laps through Area 2, you're more or less being a dick that's trying to force people to conform to the way you want to play.

Private parties exist for a reason. So that you can do what you want without getting in anyone's way. If you want to be selfish and do things your way regardless of the popular consensus, then you better be willing to make some sacrifices, such as continuing to solo or taking the time to organize a group of players that's wililng to do exactly what you want to do.

[Dan Maku]

i think the dude just wants more content. People wouldn't have to grind in endless areas if there was something to accomplish from levels 20 - 30

We have a big update coming next week that adds a new field. That should help.