Regarding Shifta and Deband

[Ogni-XR21]

So what do we know about how Shifta and Deband work in PSO2?

At first I was kind of surprised how short S&D lasted. I was thinking that it must be the still low levels of the techs I'm using (5 & 6). You constantly have to reaply them since they wear off in the blink of an eye. I did not really use them, always thinking it will get better once I get higher level disks.

But today it occured to me that they don't wear off after a specific time but after use. Shifta seems to wear off after a specific number of attacks being dealt while Deband wears off after some hits taken. This also explains why some members in a group keep it for a longer time than others, a fact that was always bothering me...

So today I devoted my role as a force to only buffing and it was a full time job. Seems like almost none of the other players really appreciated it though.

So what is your experience with Shifta and Deband? Can someone confirm my observations or am I completely off?

[Dan Maku]

Shifta and Deband are offense and defense buffs (respectively). I think I heard that Shifta also bumps up your PP recharge rate.

[Gardios]

So today I devoted my role as a force to only buffing and it was a full time job. Seems like almost none of the other players really appreciated it though.

As a full support player coming from other MMORPGs I can tell you that no one really appreciates it because the others don't really notice it (unless they die). It's even less noticeable in PSO2 because you just have two buffs, the occasional heal and continue to pew-pew otherwise due to the lack of support stuff to do.

[Scrub]

I think the biggest problem w/keeping Shifta on people is that they dont seem to know that the more pulses you get the longer it lasts, and that nobody really seems to pay attention to the damage boost.

It feels like my spells do like 20-25% more damage while Shifta'd so I always have it up on myself.

I don't really bother with Deband since if I have to choose one I'll choose Shifta everytime, especially if Im desperately trying to get some Hunter to slow the fuck down and get even ONE spell cast on them.

[holmwood]

Shifta and Deband are offense and defense buffs (respectively). I think I heard that Shifta also bumps up your PP recharge rate.

Unfortunately, no.　The shifta Z drink is the cause of that. It grants you shita and one of three random(?) effects. One is increase Tech Attack, one is PP regen increase. I don't remember the last one.

[Ogni-XR21]

In PSO1 it seemed like most players gathered for buffs, at least after they noticed a devoted support force. Once it ran out people waited for it to be recast (often even demanded it). In PSO2 it goes pretty much unnoticed.

I didn't know about the number of pulses having an effect on how long it lasts. I really need to test this a bit more...

[Macman]

Game's easy enough without buffs already.
The really tiny area of effect, combined with the fact that you need to STAY in that tiny area of effect AND the fact that the buffs only lasts about 30 seconds even when you stay in to take the whole effect makes them not worth the effort.

And I thought PSZ had the most useless buffs...

[Nu Lo Yin]

I think the biggest problem w/keeping Shifta on people is that they dont seem to know that the more pulses you get the longer it lasts, and that nobody really seems to pay attention to the damage boost.

It feels like my spells do like 20-25% more damage while Shifta'd so I always have it up on myself.

I don't really bother with Deband since if I have to choose one I'll choose Shifta everytime, especially if Im desperately trying to get some Hunter to slow the fuck down and get even ONE spell cast on them.

So Shifta can be stacked? I can cast it a few times and it will stack on itself? And last longer?

[Scrub]

I don't know if it gets more EFFECTIVE, but if you let the full four pulses wash over you as opposed to just one or two, it will last noticeably longer.

[Mag-X]

Shifta and Deband were useless and short lived at lower levels in PSO1 as well. They also weren't truly needed until ultimate mode. I bet by the time we're doing very hard and ultimate runs, it'll be useful and people will demand it again.

[Randomness]

Possibly. It's currently good for up to a minute at 5 right now. (Rank 5 being the only easy ones to get that I know of)

[Hrith]

I tested low-level S/D, the difference in damage and resistance is very noticeable.

My R-ATK did go from 817 to 903 and my R-DEF from 670 to 791 from S/D Lv3, so it's no surprise it makes a difference.
The duration is ludicrous, though, a true pity, because I could benefit a lot from those buffs, especially Deband.

[Quatre52]

Yea, its not appreciated right now, and I account that to PSU where it wasn't needed. Sadly, as a full support force from pso, I cant help but try and do it anyways...really hoping higher levels later in the games life will bring back the need and use of all these techs...

[MelancholyWitch]

I appreciate those who support in groups, especially in a large multiparty I rarely see it though some FOrces I've grouped with do it but a lot decide not to, I know it's annoying when it doesn't seem like it but a lot appreciate it, since we are in the early stages of the game support abilities aren't that great giving low stats or low health and since no one else can use techniques it should be very appreciated.

It's best to say once higher levels roll on and there are some more techniques that support perhaps even some wind and dark ones we can start to see support classes becoming an essential role and perhaps even needing 2-3 in a full multiparty as a must & won't be able to do certain areas/missions without that kind of support.

[UnLucky]

Shifta's great cause it charges way faster unless your skill tree is wrong. It's a good percentage increase and is always worth it, even solo. I make a point of firing it off near a big enemy where everyone is grouped up.

Good use of the Talis really helps for support

[Geistritter]

You need to keep an eye on your teammates and buff them when you're sure they're going to sit still long enough to receive it; expecting them to group around you lowers everyone's efficiency.

Then again, so does playing a completely supportive role. You're not doing the other players any favors; you're just rewarding them for not getting out of the way. Some hits can't be helped, but you shouldn't be babysitting anyone.

[mhjc]

I support when I can. I rarely go out of my way to buff someone, I rather just buff myself and try to include one or two players in it, like say a RA that's at a vantage point or I go near the HUs to refill my PP and buff them as well.
Talis is preferable in most cases, and that'll vary from player to player; but I prefer using Rod.

I don't think shifta levels increase damage for tech attacks, or at the least, not Resta. I haven't noticed any improvement in my damage from shifta 5 to 8.

[Quatre52]

Then again, so does playing a completely supportive role. You're not doing the other players any favors; you're just rewarding them for not getting out of the way. Some hits can't be helped, but you shouldn't be babysitting anyone.

Right now perhaps, but if this goes the direction of PSO and PSO ep1&2/BB that wont be the case, and "babysitting" is close to what a support force did back then.

[Ana-Chan]

You need to keep an eye on your teammates and buff them when you're sure they're going to sit still long enough to receive it; expecting them to group around you lowers everyone's efficiency.

I don't really bother with S/D right now, while the boost is nice, the time it lasts is bad, and in the long run, it doesn't change too much.
Also remember the converse about expecting people to group around you. If the party expects you to go to them, then it generally places the force at greater risk and it means that you will be casting the techs over and over. Again, not very efficient, especially if the force gets incapacitated and you have to revive them.
I guess though, this could be the difference between seeing this through the eyes of different classes. Being a mainly force player, I am seeing this as better because it is easier for me, and if a hunter gets into trouble, breaking off their attack for a little bit and gaining some distance between enemies for self preservation is way more efficient than expecting someone going in, using a moon atomizer and standing there completely prone for a few seconds reviving the incapacitated team mate. So to be honest, a drop in the damage throughput seems more efficient to me if it stops wasting time overall reviving dead party members.


I don't think shifta levels increase damage for tech attacks, or at the least, not Resta. I haven't noticed any improvement in my damage from shifta 5 to 8.

It does both, but don't forget that tech damage is variable in this game, so you might not be noticing it because of that. Just look at what it does to your t-atk.

[Geistritter]

Right now perhaps, but if this goes the direction of PSO and PSO ep1&2/BB that wont be the case, and "babysitting" is close to what a support force did back then.

And in my opinion, they were completely useless then too, so there you go.

You can buff people without standing around waiting for someone to get a boo-boo. Forces have extreme offensive power that goes to waste if you're waiting around to make up for others' mistakes, and they'll be better players in the end if they don't expect you to come running every time they make those mistakes.

[Coatl]

Why should I strain myself by buffing and healing constantly moving targets, when I could be doing just as much and with less strain DPSing the target?

I buff occasionally, but it is annoying when you throw your card out and use resta to heal a dying player, only to have him use a mate and have full hp firstly. There goes my 30 PP.

[MelancholyWitch]

And in my opinion, they were completely useless then too, so there you go.

You can buff people without standing around waiting for someone to get a boo-boo. Forces have extreme offensive power that goes to waste if you're waiting around to make up for others' mistakes, and they'll be better players in the end if they don't expect you to come running every time they make those mistakes.

So you've never been hit in your entire time of PSO? It's not about making mistakes, a support force doesn't just have to sit there, it's more like keep an eye out for people that get low unable to use a healing item at the time, and this isn't PSO1 so we don't get to use Resta on ourselves. We'll just have to see perhaps they come up with some new healing abilities that can be used in between attacks or with attacks.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

if you look at your character stats you can also see current buffs and how long they'll last (with the exception of medical center drinks)

i'm pretty sure all i've seen is 0:59 (59 seconds) for shifta and deband. i don't think staying for all the pulses makes your shifta/deband last longer either. it probably just refreshes it's 1minute time limit.

[Geistritter]

So you've never been hit in your entire time of PSO? It's not about making mistakes, a support force doesn't just have to sit there, it's more like keep an eye out for people that get low unable to use a healing item at the time, and this isn't PSO1 so we don't get to use Resta on ourselves. We'll just have to see perhaps they come up with some new healing abilities that can be used in between attacks or with attacks.

I just said earlier in the topic that some hits are unavoidable. Hell, I get hit all the freaking time, but I never play with a Force, so it comes out of my wallet.

Regardless, did you know you can heal yourself? Because you can heal yourself. You could heal yourself in every other game in the series, too, Resta or not. The person who should have to pay for your mistake is you; you shouldn't expect someone to bail you out. If they're willing too, groovy; that was nice of them. But you're in charge of your own neck, and if you can't keep yourself from dying, that wasn't the Force's fault.

There are a lot of players out there who are worse than they should be because they think it is the Force's job, and everyone involved would be better off if they just played better, with the assumption that no one's going to help them if they don't read that enemy's patterns better. And to be fair, not every Force wants to participate in the offense, but while that's sweet of them, I ultimately find them a waste of a party slot.

[Quatre52]

And in my opinion, they were completely useless then too, so there you go.

You can buff people without standing around waiting for someone to get a boo-boo. Forces have extreme offensive power that goes to waste if you're waiting around to make up for others' mistakes, and they'll be better players in the end if they don't expect you to come running every time they make those mistakes.

I question how much of PSO you played back then if you think a support force was useless back then.

2. You don't understand what a truly good support force is if you think they simply stand around waiting for some one to make a "mistake".

They dont need to expect me to come running, but since I've been given the ability to heal so easily, its rather selfish style of game play if I hoard that ability for just myself.

In a team oriented game, you SHOULD be able to rely on your team to help you. Back on PSO even Sega listed rangers and force as Support role characters, its what they were originally designed to do, and they can do that incredibly well.


If you have a support force whos standing around waiting, you have a lazy force playing with you. Personally, right now at these levels, I have 0 issue with keeping up my support while attacking, its not to hard with a well set up pallet.

[Geistritter]

Ah, the old "you disagree with me, so you just didn't play much/weren't very good" argument.

Also, pardon me for observing that you don't seem to have a particularly unbiased opinion on the matter seeing as the role you're defending is the one you played.

You also seem to think "support only is useless" means "support is useless", and seeing as I said nothing to that effect, that means you made it up, and there will be less arguing if I don't have to defend my position against things I never said or meant to begin with.

If there's anything I'm used to on these here internets, though, it's people embellishing or twisting what others say as the basis of their arguments, so I won't hold it against you if you don't knock it off.

Anyway, I can't quite get my head around the fact that you're giving me crap for saying "people shouldn't expect Forces to babysit them". You'd think that would be something they'd appreciate.

[Quatre52]

Its more about the way you say it, calling a support force a "waste of space" is a rather insulting line.

[Laskiee]

I think its still to early to determine the efficiency of buffs in this game. Shifta and Deband still prove to be sort of useful in Pso2 especially since the Drinks and the buffs stack. We just need to wait until higher level skills come out.

[GoldenFalcon]

if you look at your character stats you can also see current buffs and how long they'll last (with the exception of medical center drinks)

i'm pretty sure all i've seen is 0:59 (59 seconds) for shifta and deband. i don't think staying for all the pulses makes your shifta/deband last longer either. it probably just refreshes it's 1minute time limit.

It's 15 seconds per "pulse", and if you cast Deband right after Shifta, you only get 45 seconds of Shifta since Deband overrides the pulsing aura of Shifta

[soulpimpwizzurd]

It's 15 seconds per "pulse", and if you cast Deband right after Shifta, you only get 45 seconds of Shifta since Deband overrides the pulsing aura of Shifta

seriously?! that's good info

i always thought after i charge shifta'd one pulse and ran away it automatically gave me a minute.

i wonder how high it stacks.

[Geistritter]

Its more about the way you say it, calling a support force a "waste of space" is a rather insulting line.

Someone who's there just to heal and buff is, in my opinion. Being "rather insulted" by it is quite a bit much, though. If someone told me my style of play was useless, I'd shrug my shoulders, assuming they had nothing else to add; it's one person's opinion, and you should only care so much. Quantifying some of your personal worth in how you play a video game isn't healthy for you.

[Scrub]

Oh yeah whoever said about the deband overriding shifta, any of the 'aura' moves (including resta btw) will overwrite your other aura moves around, so you have to wait for the last pulse of shifta before you deband, or resta, or whatever. feels like shitty coding.

[LeynasMoon]

I feel like the Talis could be put to better use if Sega were to allow the user to lock on to a friendly target, toss the card at them and have it follow them for a time, then cast a support tech. It would not solve the problem of support style being less necessary (At our current area of the game's development), but, it would at least keep our Force players from wasting PP on buffing/healing thin air where our friend once was occupying before running away from danger. The AoE of support Techs is absurdly small right now, even when fully charged.

Also, I have to agree with what someone else had mentioned here, about playing full support. Not that I've ever seen anyone do that, but the way that Forces are designed to work right now, we would do better to fight, say, Dark Ragne, with an offense style as opposed to a team support style/offense hybrid. Otherwise, we're wasting PP on buffing that lasts for a minute or less, or missing our target with a Resta, whereas that PP could be used sniping weak spots on the boss instead, making the fight that much more faster to end.

[IzzyData]

Can my hunter not use shifta and deband anymore? Also I can't use resta?

[Ana-Chan]

Can my hunter not use shifta and deband anymore? Also I can't use resta?

No, the pure classes are just that. Only forces can cast techs of any kind. There is hope that the new classes coming soon are hybrids though.

[drizzle]

I tested low-level S/D, the difference in damage and resistance is very noticeable.

My R-ATK did go from 817 to 903 and my R-DEF from 670 to 791 from S/D Lv3, so it's no surprise it makes a difference.
The duration is ludicrous, though, a true pity, because I could benefit a lot from those buffs, especially Deband.

Yeah but you go from 2-shotting enemies, to 2-shotting enemies with bigger numbers. Buffs just aren't useful at this point in the game, except on bigger targets.

But it was the same in PSO1 and PSU... I expect the higher level buffs to last longer, and have better range, and can hopefully we'll have gear that extends their range/effectiveness some more.
I saw we can expect 'Zodial' too. No idea what it does since ATA doesn't matter this time, but I hope it's PP regen. But it's probably +ABL.

Nurses not Forces!

[Ark22]

I would honestly like the aura effect back. That way I can tell if the other multiparty peeps get it.

Because 12 people + the 10-30% buff = pretty damn awesome. And my deband saves me from getting one shotted from a level 40 Ragne stomp.

[Ogni-XR21]

It's 15 seconds per "pulse", and if you cast Deband right after Shifta, you only get 45 seconds of Shifta since Deband overrides the pulsing aura of Shifta

This is indeed very valuable information. I really need to do some testing, cause I'm wondering about uncharged S/D... it's only 1 pulse (iirc) so it should only last 15 seconds then.

If combined with J/Z, S/D should be well worth it even without nuking as a force. Well I hope there will be a specialized support class, since I love that style of play. And yes, I like babysitting a group. I think it's well worth it if hunters don't have to think about healing and just dealing damage. After all this is a co-op game where a team should work together and since I can heal for free I think it's just fair to help out those who can't do so.

I think the way it works now is a design choice, in order to really support a group 100% you really have to focus on supporting.

Well, I'll stick to mainly nuking atm and see what later levels of S/D/J/Z bring to the game.

[Jath]

As a Braver/Techer, Shifta and Deband are absolutely integral to my build.
Shifta and Deband aren't going to last very long unless you get Extend Assist from the Techer tree.
Just 1 point in Extend Assist, grants an additional 60 secs to the buff timer cap for S&D.
I have a full 2 minutes of S&D. I don't have much use for the offensive magic bonuses in the Techer tree, so I am considering putting more points into Extend Assist.

My only complaint is that I need 8 pulses of both S&D to get fully buffed. If a single pulse gave 60 seconds of buff time, then all anyone would need to do is glance the field and be on their way.

It takes time to stop and buff, and that's probably the only downside to S&D.

(Forgive me for necroing. Google brought me here.)

[UnLucky]

Good several month necro.

Anyway, if you're subbing Techer or Force solely for a damage buff, don't. Shifta gives a much smaller boost to your stats than a good skill tree from a Hunter, Fighter, or Braver sub.

[Jath]

Oh yes, definitely not just damage only. Playing with my friends every other day.
1 went Braver/Hunter, another Braver/Fighter. One did what I originally planned (Gunner/Ranger).

So I'm like... let me just avoid the redundancy and go full utility, and it has been VERY fun. I don't remotely regret it.
Now to just get my hands on a Susano Guren... ^^

[Emp]

As a Braver/Techer, Shifta and Deband are absolutely integral to my build.
Shifta and Deband aren't going to last very long unless you get Extend Assist from the Techer tree.
Just 1 point in Extend Assist, grants an additional 60 secs to the buff timer cap for S&D.
I have a full 2 minutes of S&D. I don't have much use for the offensive magic bonuses in the Techer tree, so I am considering putting more points into Extend Assist.

My only complaint is that I need 8 pulses of both S&D to get fully buffed. If a single pulse gave 60 seconds of buff time, then all anyone would need to do is glance the field and be on their way.

It takes time to stop and buff, and that's probably the only downside to S&D.

(Forgive me for necroing. Google brought me here.)

U don't need 8 casts. U just need two casts of each to get the full 2 minutes. Immediately charge the second shifta or deband as soon as the cast animation finishes.

[Gardios]

He meant pulses, 8 pulses = 2 casts.

[Emp]

He meant pulses, 8 pulses = 2 casts.

Oh. I guess waiting 15 secs for 8 pulses is a pain for some people.

[TaigaUC]

I hate the pulse nonsense so much.
I miss games where players didn't keep running away from buffs and heals.

[UnLucky]

Oh. I guess waiting 15 secs for 8 pulses is a pain for some people.
A Techer doing 2-3 casts each of S/D at a small teleporter makes me want to kick them. Just get in the damn thing so we can play the friggin game already!

[Jath]

A Techer doing 2-3 casts each of S/D at a small teleporter makes me want to kick them. Just get in the damn thing so we can play the friggin game already!

As a techer, I can say it's very annoying.

A simple 60 sec pulse would solve that.
One pulse and everyone's on their way, and if I wanted to buff myself I wouldn't need to charge it. An uncharged cast is 2 pulses. 2 mins. Done.

Buffing shouldn't be a chore.
It's the only thing that upsets me about my build.

[PrinceBrightstar]

Where is the best place to farm for high level S/D? I'm stuck with level 8 of each currently.

[landman]

U don't need 8 casts. U just need two casts of each to get the full 2 minutes. Immediately charge the second shifta or deband as soon as the cast animation finishes.
Two minutes? wait... the pulses are not stackable with consecutive Shifta, are they?

I really only use shifta for myself, just to have that little edge on every tech attack, and those extra thousands on Namegid.

[gigawuts]

Two minutes? wait... the pulses are not stackable with consecutive Shifta, are they?

I really only use shifta for myself, just to have that little edge on every tech attack, and those extra thousands on Namegid.

Extend Assist lets you get 120 seconds of Shifta and Deband at level 1, and 180 seconds at level 10. Each Shifta and Deband pulse gives you 15 seconds of buff - each individual casting has 4 pulses. So, 1 casting = 4 pulses = 60 seconds, 2 castings = 8 = 120, 3 castings = 12 = 180.

[Emp]

A Techer doing 2-3 casts each of S/D at a small teleporter makes me want to kick them. Just get in the damn thing so we can play the friggin game already!

Ya I feel ya. I just want to kill the dam things and go home.

[Terrence]

Deband power/duration may be miserable at the present time but once Deband Protection is added (Iron Will during Deband) it will become really useful !

[jcart953]

^ wasn't that another 10sp sink though?. If so not going to get it...

[The Walrus]

But no one ever dies in this game, Firesword proved that.