Any Disappointments Or Underwhelming Feelings With PSO2 When Looking For The PSO Exp?

[Quintus_The_Force]

Question for the PSO veterans in here. I speant about 5K hours in PSO since Dreamcast/GCN/BB. I'm noticing little changes in PSO2 like cap, and difficulty, im curious if im going to like PSO2 as much as I enjoyed PSO1. I expect to, but what were some of the things in PSO2 that made you think 'ahhhh dang, its gone!, or ' awwww thats different!', so I can have a better grasp on my expectations?

[r00tabaga]

99% or more like it better.

[Agitated_AT]

I can relate to you as I was thinking the same before I discovered client orders and untill I reached level 30.

The game has freedom, so it doesnt force you to Kill multiple enemy mobs to progress. You can make that choice yourself. Client orders encourage engaging enemies alot, and they also reward with great amount of exp, so they're great elements to the gameplay.

When you reach level 30, tundra is unlocked, which is alot more challenging than anything else a. Once you finish the last tundra mission, you unlock a time attack mode.

This is where any pso1 fan is going to love the game, because it is basically your pso1 mode. Don't ask me why it's called time attack mode lol, especially because these missions played on regular pace, can take around the same time as pso1, which is around an hour. The mode brings back barriers that open untill you kill amounts of enemies. It brings back pushing buttons simultaniously with others. It even has great puzzles that require communication, very lightly that is. They're challenging and fun!! Remember in pso1 where area 1 looked different from area2? Well even that's back, but I won't spoil too much. It'll explain itself. And really the best part is still I think the challenge and feeling the great need of engaging enemies to progress. It helps that the combat is friggin fantastic, so yeah

It's too bad that such a thing is unlocked so late in the game. But to anyone that still reads the forums and may still feel dissapointed, I hope this post convinces you to keep playing, because judging from everything i've expeirenced so far in pso2, and imagining there will be more of it. I can safely say, this is one hell of a great sequel

[NoiseHERO]

The run-around given by certain F2P aspects really grind my gears.

But not in a "fawk this game" sort of way.

I'm still mad that the "My Room" costs money

And having to do annoying quests to unlock the right to progress further kind of make me feel like a tool, knowing that any other game having a quest like that would make me want to quit. (The level 40 cap unlocking quest)

Otherwise I'm amazed that the combat hasn't bore'd me yet. It doesn't stop being fun well ranger gets boring sometimes for me... e_e

At least till I start riding my launcher across the map.

[kdrakari]

I'm not exactly a veteran, but I'm on the fence about how little the races differ now. The new way lets people create the character they want without worrying about being massively subpar or even simply impossible (e.g. FOcast) and it works well with having a single character leveling all the classes, but at the same time I liked how you had to carefully consider which race to choose in the original, such as being a hunter you could go Cast for the highest damage and regenerating health (I think they had that... right?) or Newman to get more powerful techniques and regenerating PP so they don't need to keep mates or fluids. Sometimes I feel like it's a bad thing, sometimes I feel it's a good thing. Overall though, I think a lot of people are mostly neutral on the idea while a few love their FOcast and think it's the greatest change ever.

A couple other things of note: non-force characters cannot use techniques at all (though they may introduce mixed classes later), weapon selection is questionable (why can't we have real rifles instead of rifle-shaped mechguns?), boss fights seem a little less complex (though PSO's most complex boss wasn't until the third area and I've only played the first two in PSO2), mags cannot be found (or at least, nobody's found one yet), rares soulbind on equip (or some other terminology for that sort of thing), trading is restricted to cash players only (on the other hand, you're getting almost every other part of previous PS titles for free and the premium is about the same price as their susbscriptions), difficulty is overall lowered (or so I hear, I personally don't have an opinion).

But at its core you go to various diverse environments and fight many different enemies, resulting in better equipment so you can fight stronger enemies; and PSO2 definitely falls more toward PSO than any other game with that description that I know of.

[Chik'Tikka]

Sega's launch trailer thingy+^_^+
just enough to wet your appetite +^_^+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvZ3kawRrOc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvZ3kawRrOc

[Geistritter]

I don't require for a sequel to be the same game as last time. It's a decent game, the music is generally solid, and I get to be a robot with a rocket launcher. That's good enough for me.

[Zipzo]

I played PSO all the way back on the Dreamcast, and pretty much followed it until Blue Burst died, and I also played PSU until they took down the PC servers.

What I will tell you, veteran to veteran, is that this game both looks and feels like a next generation PSO should.

I am on the private server that shall not be named for PSOBB, and I have gone back to it a few times thinking "Damn, PSO2 did a great job at improving this", because before PSO2 I could still find myself coming to PSO and thinking that the gameplay experience still rivaled 2012 games.

PSO2 is quite superior in its combat, and they learned the dos and don'ts for it through PSU.

If there's one thing PSU was good for, it was for SEGA to essentially better tweak PSO2 to be exactly what we all wanted.

The F2P-ness of it is something that's new, and may take some getting used to, as there was no such thing as a cash shop in the old PSO, everything was just there...but think of paying for premium as...say...a hunters license.

[Geistritter]

If there's one thing PSU was good for, it was for SEGA to essentially better tweak PSO2 to be exactly what we all wanted.

Wouldn't go anywhere near that far. Some of us are substantially easier to please than others. Hell, calling it "Phantasy Star Online 2" was good enough for most people to act like it was the second coming of space Jesus.

I personally think this game has a long way to go, yet at the same time, I expected it to be awful, and it isn't that either.

[Mag-X]

The level 40 cap unlocking quest

Is there seriously a level 40 cap quest too? Is there going to be a horrible busy work quest every ten levels? I really am close to just throwing in the towel on this game. It's just annoying busy work quests and grinding so you can do more annoying busy work quests.

[AlMcFly]

The ability to trade without renting it with AC. Yes in PSO we only had drop-trading but even that is impossible now. It's pretty much my only gripe about this game.

[jmanx]

The setup of this game really smerrs

> Quest to get past 30
wat the fk

> Ranger has soul eater cant into Photon art
wat the fk

> Can do hard forest missions at lvl 20 but cant into free forest
wat the fk

> Can't into trade for free
wat the fk

> no self grinding like pso and psz
wat the fk

Also I don't like the fact they SPLIT UP every fkn stat into its own category
Luckily i like the combat enough

THESE PSU elements they decided to put in this game really hurting the gaem

[Zipzo]

Wouldn't go anywhere near that far. Some of us are substantially easier to please than others. Hell, calling it "Phantasy Star Online 2" was good enough for most people to act like it was the second coming of space Jesus.

I personally think this game has a long way to go, yet at the same time, I expected it to be awful, and it isn't that either.
I'm not saying that it's exactly what we all wanted yet, but I'm sure they're on a much better path towards achieving it thanks to the stomping ground that was PSU. It's an online game, I'm going to give it the time it needs to grow and see what happens without bitching during the first month.

The ability to trade without renting it with AC. Yes in PSO we only had drop-trading but even that is impossible now. It's pretty much my only gripe about this game.
You're incorrect, there was a trade window in PSO. Dropping was just faster so there was no point unless you didn't trust the person you were trading with.

[Chik'Tikka]

The ability to trade without renting it with AC. Yes in PSO we only had drop-trading but even that is impossible now. It's pretty much my only gripe about this game.

lol, ikr? at the very least, one of those boxes like they had in PSU that you can put in peoples rooms and leave items in, currently, the only thing that can be traded for free are room decs, and only to people that have a room (you can put them down in others rooms)+^_^+
so what do you do when you need to trade with the McFly Bot?
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i49.tinypic.com/29mvli0.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
*gosh, i look terrible in that picture, i shoulda posed, and i want longer hair...*

[gigawuts]

I thought it would be great - and in a lot of ways it is.

There's a lot of things I really liked in PSO1 that this didn't quite capture. The new content is getting closer, though.

For one thing, I finally caught a hold of what gave PSO1 such great longevity - the large, hours-long maps. That still exists in the form of multipartying. Instead of not knowing which path to take to find the boss, now you're not sure when a boss will spawn via an emergency code. They're not the same, but the underlying feel is a lot more similar than it sounds.

They're bringing back distinctly unique enemies with unique abilities, not that PSO necessarily had that in droves (booma aka evil shark aka dimenian aka walk-up-and-whap-you guy).

In all though, it's taken the breathing room given by modern advancements in games, it's taken cues from other games I personally loved, and it's brought in elements I thought were good from both PSU AND PSO. Things like PA's were fun, but the limited nature of PP wasn't. They've met half-way in a way I find satisfactory.

Is it better than PSO1? No. It's different, and I do indeed like it.

[Geistritter]

I'm not saying that it's exactly what we all wanted yet, but I'm sure they're on a much better path towards achieving it thanks to the stomping ground that was PSU. It's an online game, I'm going to give it the time it needs to grow and see what happens without bitching during the first month.

A lot of complaints players have aren't from a lack of refinement; they're by design. They may be changed one day, sure, but things like the absolutely ridiculous lack of a trade option without paying for it aren't the result of a fledgling game stretching its legs; they're flat out awful design decisions.

The abundance of having content locked until you're a high enough level is also getting on my nerves, as is the arbitrary fetch quests any time you want to make a significant leap forward. It's just busy work, and doesn't do anything to enhance the game or the gameplay; it just wastes our time.

[Zyrusticae]

A lot of complaints players have aren't from a lack of refinement; they're by design. They may be changed one day, sure, but things like the absolutely ridiculous lack of a trade option without paying for it aren't the result of a fledgling game stretching its legs; they're flat out awful design decisions.

The abundance of having content locked until you're a high enough level is also getting on my nerves, as is the arbitrary fetch quests any time you want to make a significant leap forward. It's just busy work, and doesn't do anything to enhance the game or the gameplay; it just wastes our time.
I simply must disagree on the trading. Seriously, the developers need to make money, and trading is hardly a game-breaker (especially when you can still buy from player shops without paying a single real dime).

I'm growing increasingly embittered at all the freeloaders out there...

The content lock, on the other hand, is rather annoying, as is the complete omission of a normal mode for Tundra(!?).

Client orders and matter board jobs, on the other hand, I think are a nice addition. Psychologically, it works very well - give you a bunch of smaller goals to hit on the path to hitting your overall goal (hitting the cap to grind rares, for most people, I guess). It just doesn't work as well when, well, the players can't read the language and thus lack context for the tasks they're undertaking.

[Zipzo]

A lot of complaints players have aren't from a lack of refinement; they're by design. They may be changed one day, sure, but things like the absolutely ridiculous lack of a trade option without paying for it aren't the result of a fledgling game stretching its legs; they're flat out awful design decisions.

The abundance of having content locked until you're a high enough level is also getting on my nerves, as is the arbitrary fetch quests any time you want to make a significant leap forward. It's just busy work, and doesn't do anything to enhance the game or the gameplay; it just wastes our time.

And those of us who do not have an issue with their design? Those of us who like the client orders, whether you see them as "busy work" or not? If you're not having fun, don't play. It's not like you were forced to put a monetary investment in to the game in order to play it.

[jmanx]

And those of us who do not have an issue with their design? Those of us who like the client orders, whether you see them as "busy work" or not? If you're not having fun, don't play. It's not like you were forced to put a monetary investment in to the game in order to play it.

damn you musta loved that quest to get past lvl 30 huh

[Geistritter]

And those of us who do not have an issue with their design?

...Should remember you're not the only people included in your "exactly what we all wanted" comment.


Those of us who like the client orders, whether you see them as "busy work" or not? If you're not having fun, don't play. It's not like you were forced to put a monetary investment in to the game in order to play it.

Oh, please, don't start on with such blather; I never said anything of the sort. The game's decent enough to merit playing, but it has some pointlessly annoying aspects I don't appreciate. No one likes everything about anything, and if you think you do, you're conveniently forgetting about the last time it annoyed you. Bringing up those things, actually being honest rather than acting like the subject is the greatest of anything that will ever be, is by no means a sign that you're hating it at every turn. Don't be so dramatic and defensive.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

damn you musta loved that quest to get past lvl 30 huh

thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss

if you were already lvl 30 when that bullshit client order came out and you still enjoyed it, you're a liar.

i can see it not really being that bad if you have to grind from 25-30 so you'll get those anyway, but not being able to level and already being at lvl 30 seeing exp full when you could be gaining that exp was pretty aggravating.

sadly they'll probably release another bullshit client order like that for 40-50. but i'll forgive them because of the +5 class SP quest. i didn't see that coming at all.

[gigawuts]

Grinding can die in a fire, btw.

[Geistritter]

I second that sentiment with the fury of a thousand fires.

Affixing as it is currently can piss right off, too.

[jmanx]

Man if I get a lvl up halting quest after that Ibetter get rewarded with some all screen special atk but i sure didnt

[Dxluv]

I miss the art direction of PSO. It's definitely a step-up from PSU, but it seems a little lacking.

The randomly-generated environments are stale and generic, and the music is only nice as long as it isn't tugging for nostalgia or mimicking PSU's repetitive song-structure: so basically, most of the ambient tracks outside of combat are the only good ones to me.

Aside from that, the worst offender, I think, is enemies hopping away from you and dancing around. It's really stupid. I just prefer the simple minded horde of enemies that would descend upon you, with their various formations and different speeds and modes of attack. The jumping around shit is goofy and when you have a horde of enemies doing it, it kind of takes you out of the game as you chase one down and pound away while another hopped his way far away from you. And it seems like when they're getting pounded on sometimes, instead of fighting back, they'd still rather keep hopping away.

That said, yeah, it's pretty good. The Japanese kind of hinders the pacing, but there are guides and such. There is a lot of depth to the game.

[Garnet_Moon]

Man if I get a lvl up halting quest after that Ibetter get rewarded with some all screen special atk but i sure didnt
Ah~

I remember the Genkai in Final Fantasy XI. A whole day to organize 20+ people to run to a zone they probably have never been to before. Killing bosses in the frozen north, then raiding the world boss houses for some key items... yeah, fuck ever doing that again. I'll take an item hunt any day of the week. Even if the drop rate is nearly non existent.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

I second that sentiment with the fury of a thousand fires.

Affixing as it is currently can piss right off, too.

the affix system is incredibly cruel and unusual but i think it's a genius money sink.

although there's also the chance that simply less people participate in it since it costs so much meseta.

i really do like the ideas behind it and all. being able to customize your armor units since they're always on is pretty cool.

but damn it's really fukkin expensive. most definitely on purpose. my dream is definitely 3 armor units with mutation 3 and vol souls lol.

[AlMcFly]

lol, ikr? at the very least, one of those boxes like they had in PSU that you can put in peoples rooms and leave items in, currently, the only thing that can be traded for free are room decs, and only to people that have a room (you can put them down in others rooms)+^_^+
so what do you do when you need to trade with the McFly Bot?
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i49.tinypic.com/29mvli0.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
*gosh, i look terrible in that picture, i shoulda posed, and i want longer hair...*

LOOOL, I have PSO2 open on my laptop as well. This is where I afk to mag feed XD

[gigawuts]

The affix system's main flaw is losing a failed slot. It should simply stay there and not require an attempt that reduces the success of EVERYTHING to expand the slots.

Chance based mechanics are a lazy, bad balancing mechanic that results in people having strings of failures whereas other people have strings of successes that they practically immediately forget about. There is no fun in failing to bring something up to 2 slots for 10 attempts, some going back down to zero, then finally getting it and failing both slots trying to do a soul and power II.

This is bad design. It makes people walk away from the computer. Even using the basest financial reasonings, that is the last god damn thing you should EVER be trying to make happen as a game designer. You want your customers sitting there wanting more and more. You should take a bit away, but give a bit back. You should never implement something as irritating and crushing as this horrible, horrible grinding or affix system.

There should also be a safety net of after X failures (+/- some number, so you can't game the system) you're GUARANTEED success. Never should the unluckiest amongst us be subjected to a hundred consecutive failures - and I promise you that if it hasn't already happened it is going to very soon.

[Geistritter]

Oh, and I freaking hate the way auto targeting works in this game. It can't just lock onto the guy you're facing; it has to snap onto some random dude halfway across the world, wrenching your view in that direction while whatever you meant to lock onto makes an entree of your face.


my dream is definitely 3 armor units with mutation 3 and vol souls lol.

That's masochism of the highest order, right there.

[gigawuts]

I'm not the only one that does a 180 on an enemy two football fields away when trying to lock the only enemy in front of me?

Well, I guess that's a relief. Kind of. Misery and company and all.

[GImiller]

I miss the rare mob variations, i know there's the infected mobs and those ultra cute mode rappies... but i'm talking about the nar lillies, hilde blues, pal rappies, etc.

[AlMcFly]

I miss the rare mob variations, i know there's the infected mobs and those ultra cute mode rappies... but i'm talking about the nar lillies, hilde blues, pal rappies, etc.

I used to get SO angry at Lillys. Ruin entire runs with an errant Megid.

[Garnet_Moon]

I used to get SO angry at Lillys. Ruin entire runs with an errant Megid.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Kjy8O7gDY

[GImiller]

I used to get SO angry at Lillys. Ruin entire runs with an errant Megid.

Rofl, I can't think of anything as frustrating as a insta KO megid... paralysis gets a close second though.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

@giga

yeah it's pretty brutal how it's all or nothing and if you fail all of the slots get stripped from your unit.

if it went based off of a chance of success but it didn't reset your progress (strip your entire unit of it's previous affixes AND slot count) oh god i think i'd die from happiness. it could be so easy to make so many interesting combinations of armor units

but nope. nope nope nope.

so i settled for just 3 vol souls.

i still say that there's gonna be crazy bastards that make billions of mesetas selling ac scratch items that will eventually be able to make crazy shit like vol soul stam 5 mutation 5 blow resist 5 on all 3 of their units. but it'll take every single meseta they have to do it.

and they'll just never die from the stupid amount of HP they have

i always thought it wasn't true but hp stacking is definitely the best form of defense you can get since defense even against the right stat doesn't seem to do much. i have 3 stamina sub units +50 hp all with vol souls so i get a free extra 200 hp for my hunter and ranger, and soon enough force. it also gets to +10 incredibly easily, within generally 50k meseta, but the defense gains aren't enough for me to justify burning thru 50k anyway. i only +10'd one of the units. when you do +10 it though, it gets as strong as the indian looking armor with feathers and stuff.

@geis

i can dream can't i *siiiiiiiiiiiiiighhhhhhhhhhhh*

[mangopirate]

The whole point of losing ability slots is to act as a meseta sink and to take money out of the system. It's also a way of controlling the number of abilities an item will likely have which from my gear-inspecting seems to be on average 2 abilities for those that are willing to spend the money. 3 (great) abilities for the crazy people that really min/max their equipment.

I personally think it's a genius system otherwise you'd eventually see everyone running around with 5+ abilities on everything, throwing out the balance Sega is trying to create.

[Polly]

Coming from the days of Dreamcast PSO and all the way through its incarnations, if you look at it as merely jumping from PSO to PSO2, it's a sequel that hits all the right notes so far. There's a lot of logical evolution when only looking at those two games.

Factoring in PSU and things get a bit wonky, because PSO2 still seems to share some qualities with that game that simply (in my opinion) didn't work. The mission structure can be a bit tiring, but open fields can go a little ways toward alleviating the tedium a bit. Then there are super short missions like the first mission in each area so far and they're over and done so fast that it's hardly enough to get a taste for a new area, and I'm not really sure why they exist beyond making grinding for matter board and client order items easier.

I'm hoping the way Tundra was introduced isn't an indication of how they're going to continue releasing new content, only scaling upwards. PSU suffered a lot from "hotspots" and continually scaling new content only upward and not padding out the lower difficulties and level ranges is going to create the same stagnation if they're not careful. (Tundra seriously needs some lower level love, because grinding out 25-30 can get reaaally boring at times.) Two saving graces here however are how rare drops are cycled and that there's no longer a busted ranking system that makes playing certain missions a complete and utter waste of time.

I guess my only real gripe may be how obvious it is that they're stretching a little content very, very thin by piling on requirements, fetch quests and what have you. It's a tactic I've seen in other free to play games though, so I can't really slight it too much. It's just not an aspect of the game that's bugging me a whole lot right now, and I doubt it will because if I get bored, I'll just play something else for a while and wait until there's some more decent stuff for me to come back to. Probably helps that I'm in no rush to try and cap out my class yet.

PSO2 is an interesting beast, because it's clearly the product of both evolution and learned lessons. Thinking on it a bit, I see the game as more an extension of PSP2 than I do PSO, but as a sequel to PSO it's quite a damn good sequel.

[xhrit]

I personally think it's a genius system otherwise you'd eventually see everyone running around with 5+ abilities on everything, throwing out the balance Sega is trying to create.

It would be genius, except you know there are going to be cash shop items that raise the success rate.

Altho now that I think about it, maybe it is genius anyway.

[IzzyData]

I really hate that you can't do a simple trade without paying. That is the biggest fault for me.

[raiden55]

Question for the PSO veterans in here. I speant about 5K hours in PSO since Dreamcast/GCN/BB. I'm noticing little changes in PSO2 like cap, and difficulty, im curious if im going to like PSO2 as much as I enjoyed PSO1. I expect to, but what were some of the things in PSO2 that made you think 'ahhhh dang, its gone!, or ' awwww thats different!', so I can have a better grasp on my expectations?

you need to unlock free zone (what dream had at first), and so need lot of farming
also at lv20 you are blocked with nothing new for a while due to level restriction

on the other hand, the gameplay is way better than 10 year ago, you can change class when you want, and the game is full of things that veterans will remember

[SaiKo]

I'll preface this by saying that, from what I've seen of the game's general reception thus far, I don't think my opinions are particularly popular (or in any way representative of the community), but meh... Here goes, anyway...

1) I don't like the disconnected nature of the content. The areas lack defining features that make them feel like specific locales, missions are short, isolated affairs, and the free-exploration mode is much the same, save for the fact that you can continue running around killing everything endlessly if you want. There is not a cohesive episode-based structure or a linear progression of levels as there is in the original PSO, so you can't create a room and play a full-game from start to finish as you could there. You can either stay in a randomized room of a given theme and just kill forever, or you can play an insular 15-2Ø minutes of content, affording no real sense of story or even geographical progression.

Bosses can appear within a level, so to me they no longer even feel like bosses, but simply bigger, harder enemies. Fighting them doesn't feel like the climax of an area or anything special at all to me, really. The single environment per stage and the boss rooms just flattening out the terrain, but otherwise carrying that over (save for Dark Agne in the city) doesn't help there...

Though more than just the boss appearances in the stage, Emergency Codes as they are in general really kill the tone of the game for me as well. They don't flow with the stages and just seem like random crap thrown in to break up the tedium for those that do decide to stay around one room killing endlessly (or annoy those that want to rush missions). But due to the random, continuous nature of the content, I suppose there's no other way they could have been handled, unfortunately...

Honestly, between the randomized rooms, Emergency Codes, PSE bursts, and the hotblooded announcer screaming about the latter two, the game currently feels more like a 'challenge mode' that should exist as a complement to the main game than a cohesive experience itself to me. There's progression in the sense that you have to play through one area (and appease that ***** Coffee) before getting access to the next, but it really feels more unlocking a new, unrelated puzzle in a puzzle game than anything else, especially because the game doesn't allow those within a single instance to freely jump about.

Had they released a mode that followed a similar structure to PSO and had you progress through a series of longer, connected, linear levels as the main game, then I'd be perfectly happy with the existing style of content being made available as an additional option for those that like it, but as it stands, with that content being pretty much all there is and the core of the game, I feel no connection to the world, little drive to continue, and I can't play more than a couple of missions before becoming exceedingly bored. And the nature of client orders and matter board quests does little to alleviate this...


2) I don't like the item system this game uses, and in particular, the way it handles rare items.

This one, I know I'll catch Hell for (as i already have elsewhere), but it's honestly one of the most important aspects of the game for me, and I don't really enjoy the way it's set up.

To start with, there is not really a logical progression for the quality of non-rare weapons. Rather than it being a sensible 1*->2*-3*, etc. type of setup, we have 2* items outclassing 4*s, and 5*s outclassing even some 8*s. It's just a jumbled mess that lacks elegance and feels illogical. Then there is the whole deal with the RNG affixing and grinding systems that really just makes things irksome, but I'll let others vent about that, as that does seem to be one area a lot of others seem to take issue with. Beats the rubbish we had in PSU at least, I'll give it that.

But none of that is my main issue:
My main problem is with what this game has done with rares...

They're currently little more than eye-candy, and have nothing about them to set them apart and make them feel distinct or worthwhile, IMO. I know part of the problem is with how 'early' in the game it is, as introducing anything like even PSO's lowest quality rares now (with only Hard Mode available), would be a rather ridiculous jump, especially if new non-rares are to be added later. But to be honest, because of that, I don't feel they should even be in the game at this point.

Rather than having a tier of items of higher quality than normal junk, each (for the most part) with not only a distinct appearance, but a unique ability/characteristic, and/or exceptional stats, we get a bunch of eyecandy that is in many cases statistically inferior to normal items, is bound to the same affix and element systems as all other items, and has no real distinct traits to set them apart. Sure, future rares will be 'better' (though I doubt they will start assigning special characteristics/abilities as a rule), but that these ones were shoveled out now kills the feeling of collectibility to me. In PSO, I aspired to get every rare my character could use. In PSO2, I honestly don't care about them, nor want any of them. So, I have no real motivation or goal to pursue. And when coupled with my disdain for the style of content Sega has opted to go with, I don't see much to entertain me going forward.

Those two (and the related subpoints) were the biggest things, but there are a lot of smaller quirks (lack of proper rare enemies, dARKers errywhere, the obnoxious camera, Rappy costume and Pink Tuxedo parties, etc.) which I don't really feel like delving into in any real depth right now.

Commence raging. >_>

[Vylera]

The only ughs in this game:

1. Koffee

2. Level limits on areas. They're kind of obnoxious and prevent you from exploring new scenery, but as soon as you hop level 30, all your effort pays off and you can just skip through any area you want.

@Saiko:

* count is RARITY. It has nothing to do with performance. Just because an item is rare doesn't mean it's good. Rare just means it's hard to find. Lots of early game rares in PSO1 were replacable pieces of junk that I kept in my bank just because they looked cool, too.

The thing with rares is that their base stats are (for the most part) garbage, but they have the most growth when grinded, which makes a +10 rare better than a +10 2* item, even if the 2 star had 50 more damage to begin with.

What they're trying to do is make a money sink. Rares aren't useless, they're difficult to make useful. Most people don't have the money or don't care that they don't have the money for making a 500 attack assault rifle when they can just get a 420 4/5* for 1/10th the price. The 2-5* items are great temporary items that are easy to find, easy to upgrade, and easy to feel powerful with. They help you on the way to finding the rares you want to use, because when you do get a rare to +10, it's going to kick ass. I have no problems with this type of item system.

That way, rares are truely RARE. Not really much point in rare items if everyone's running around (not in the lobby) with the same rare item as if they were as common as 2-5*.

Of course, just my opinion. You're entitled to your own, and I'm not trying to say that you're wrong.

[Laxedrane]

The setup of this game really smerrs

> Quest to get past 30
wat the fk

> Ranger has soul eater cant into Photon art
wat the fk

> Can do hard forest missions at lvl 20 but cant into free forest
wat the fk

> Can't into trade for free
wat the fk

> no self grinding like pso and psz
wat the fk

Also I don't like the fact they SPLIT UP every fkn stat into its own category
Luckily i like the combat enough

THESE PSU elements they decided to put in this game really hurting the gaem

I know psu is everyone favorite punching bag around here but, Besides the grinding(And unless on the jp servers you needed premium to trade) what the fuck do these other elements have to do with PSU at all?

[AlMcFly]

I'm hoping the way Tundra was introduced isn't an indication of how they're going to continue releasing new content, only scaling upwards. PSU suffered a lot from "hotspots" and continually scaling new content only upward and not padding out the lower difficulties and level ranges is going to create the same stagnation if they're not careful. (Tundra seriously needs some lower level love, because grinding out 25-30 can get reaaally boring at times.)




2. Level limits on areas. They're kind of obnoxious and prevent you from exploring new scenery, but as soon as you hop level 30, all your effort pays off and you can just skip through any area you want.

You both have hit upon a very real concern. Even with Hard Mode, once you hit Tundra there is really no good reason to return to Forest, Caves (Ugh), and Desert. The only incentive is Client Orders and Matterboard completion which are all just excuses to waste your time with grinding anyway because they really have no beneficial or worthwhile rewards (not yet anyway). This level stagnation did definitely hurt PSU.

Literally requiring characters to grind in order to even play new content is rough also. Sure you don't REALLY have to grind but who wants to be the one playing Mines 3 weeks (or more depending on your playstyle) after it was released? I also see at least one person in a lobby every day asking "Are these three forest missions all this game has? What? We have to beat them in time limits and level up to get new stages? Ugh" Lol

[Vylera]

You both have hit upon a very real concern. Even with Hard Mode, once you hit Tundra there is really no good reason to return to Forest, Caves (Ugh), and Desert. The only incentive is Client Orders and Matterboard completion which are all just excuses to waste your time with grinding anyway because they really have no beneficial or worthwhile rewards (not yet anyway). This level stagnation did definitely hurt PSU.

Literally requiring characters to grind in order to even play new content is rough also. Sure you don't REALLY have to grind but who wants to be the one playing Mines 3 weeks (or more depending on your playstyle) after it was released? I also see at least one person in a lobby every day asking "Are these three forest missions all this game has? What? We have to beat them in time limits and level up to get new stages? Ugh" Lol

Personally, I think not having any incentive to return to previous areas isn't that big of a problem. In all honesty, that's going to be covered by the fact that we'll be recycling through areas we didn't care about once VH and ULT modes are released. We're going to end up seeing those areas again (or so we assume, anyway), whether we like it or not. It's not like a typical dungeon crawler MMO where you NEVER revisit the low level dungeons because there aren't even ANY missions or rewards at ALL. At least PSO2's client orders are meaningful when repetition is demanded of you, and if you're a rare collector, there's a lot of incentive to check the drops list and target certain maps.

The problem is that they "MMO-ified" it a little too much by introducing level reqs and forced grinding. Emphasis on FORCED. You don't have a choice when you're level 20 or 25. Fact of the matter is, if the EXP gain from hard free fields aren't the same, why are their level requirements the same? Giving us free forest at 28, caves at 29, then desert at 30 along with new trunda missions would've helped the game flow a lot.

I was thinking to myself that the best case scenario would be for the free fields to scale to your level and/or the average level of all your party members up to a maximum (normal free field stops at level 20 enemies, hard free fields stop at level 40), but then that would introduce level discrimination, and the 5 level gap for EXP reduction would be a huge hit. The community would be much more restricted rather than the individual player.

Maybe they'll change it later down the road to attract more new players, but for now, the 5,5,5,5,5 intervals of level requirements aren't helping us.

In the end, we're willing to do it anyway since the game itself is still entertaining enough.

[AlMcFly]

I was thinking to myself that the best case scenario would be for the free fields to scale to your level and/or the average level of all your party members up to a maximum (normal free field stops at level 20 enemies, hard free fields stop at level 40), but then that would introduce level discrimination, and the 5 level gap for EXP reduction would be a huge hit. The community would be much more restricted rather than the individual player.

OR have no level caps on enemy level per stage and just scale enemies with player level introducing new relevant drops at milestones of say level 20, 40, etc. Hard Modes should have at least re-skins or new mobs/bosses that actually have tougher combat intelligence. The current "Hard Modes" are extremely lazy in direction because all they did was raise the monster level, stats, and payout. They really aren't more difficult considering you can't even get into them without being the required level anyway. At that point you are easily leveled and equipped to breeze through.

Iono, their doing nothing to eliminate the ability to power-level friends through lower zones is beyond me also.

[gigawuts]

The whole point of losing ability slots is to act as a meseta sink and to take money out of the system. It's also a way of controlling the number of abilities an item will likely have which from my gear-inspecting seems to be on average 2 abilities for those that are willing to spend the money. 3 (great) abilities for the crazy people that really min/max their equipment.

I personally think it's a genius system otherwise you'd eventually see everyone running around with 5+ abilities on everything, throwing out the balance Sega is trying to create.

There are far, far, far less frustrating ways to do all of these things. You could easily cap the number of level 5 affixes, or you could easily make it such that high level items take up two slots. A system of diminishing returns with meseta versus effectiveness would also be very easy to balance. The system as it is is nothing but a penalty based on poor luck because the computer says so.

The reality is that they got greedy with the chance bonus and penalty reduction items. They got greedy and heavily prenerfed the mechanic so as to make it awful.

[DonMakaveli]

I'll preface this by saying that, from what I've seen of the game's general reception thus far, I don't think my opinions are particularly popular (or in any way representative of the community), but meh... Here goes, anyway...

1) I don't like the disconnected nature of the content. The areas lack defining features that make them feel like specific locales, missions are short, isolated affairs, and the free-exploration mode is much the same, save for the fact that you can continue running around killing everything endlessly if you want. There is not a cohesive episode-based structure or a linear progression of levels as there is in the original PSO, so you can't create a room and play a full-game from start to finish as you could there. You can either stay in a randomized room of a given theme and just kill forever, or you can play an insular 15-2Ø minutes of content, affording no real sense of story or even geographical progression.

Bosses can appear within a level, so to me they no longer even feel like bosses, but simply bigger, harder enemies. Fighting them doesn't feel like the climax of an area or anything special at all to me, really. The single environment per stage and the boss rooms just flattening out the terrain, but otherwise carrying that over (save for Dark Agne in the city) doesn't help there...

Though more than just the boss appearances in the stage, Emergency Codes as they are in general really kill the tone of the game for me as well. They don't flow with the stages and just seem like random crap thrown in to break up the tedium for those that do decide to stay around one room killing endlessly (or annoy those that want to rush missions). But due to the random, continuous nature of the content, I suppose there's no other way they could have been handled, unfortunately...

Honestly, between the randomized rooms, Emergency Codes, PSE bursts, and the hotblooded announcer screaming about the latter two, the game currently feels more like a 'challenge mode' that should exist as a complement to the main game than a cohesive experience itself to me. There's progression in the sense that you have to play through one area (and appease that ***** Coffee) before getting access to the next, but it really feels more unlocking a new, unrelated puzzle in a puzzle game than anything else, especially because the game doesn't allow those within a single instance to freely jump about.

Had they released a mode that followed a similar structure to PSO and had you progress through a series of longer, connected, linear levels as the main game, then I'd be perfectly happy with the existing style of content being made available as an additional option for those that like it, but as it stands, with that content being pretty much all there is and the core of the game, I feel no connection to the world, little drive to continue, and I can't play more than a couple of missions before becoming exceedingly bored. And the nature of client orders and matter board quests does little to alleviate this...


2) I don't like the item system this game uses, and in particular, the way it handles rare items.

This one, I know I'll catch Hell for (as i already have elsewhere), but it's honestly one of the most important aspects of the game for me, and I don't really enjoy the way it's set up.

To start with, there is not really a logical progression for the quality of non-rare weapons. Rather than it being a sensible 1*->2*-3*, etc. type of setup, we have 2* items outclassing 4*s, and 5*s outclassing even some 8*s. It's just a jumbled mess that lacks elegance and feels illogical. Then there is the whole deal with the RNG affixing and grinding systems that really just makes things irksome, but I'll let others vent about that, as that does seem to be one area a lot of others seem to take issue with. Beats the rubbish we had in PSU at least, I'll give it that.

But none of that is my main issue:
My main problem is with what this game has done with rares...

They're currently little more than eye-candy, and have nothing about them to set them apart and make them feel distinct or worthwhile, IMO. I know part of the problem is with how 'early' in the game it is, as introducing anything like even PSO's lowest quality rares now (with only Hard Mode available), would be a rather ridiculous jump, especially if new non-rares are to be added later. But to be honest, because of that, I don't feel they should even be in the game at this point.

Rather than having a tier of items of higher quality than normal junk, each (for the most part) with not only a distinct appearance, but a unique ability/characteristic, and/or exceptional stats, we get a bunch of eyecandy that is in many cases statistically inferior to normal items, is bound to the same affix and element systems as all other items, and has no real distinct traits to set them apart. Sure, future rares will be 'better' (though I doubt they will start assigning special characteristics/abilities as a rule), but that these ones were shoveled out now kills the feeling of collectibility to me. In PSO, I aspired to get every rare my character could use. In PSO2, I honestly don't care about them, nor want any of them. So, I have no real motivation or goal to pursue. And when coupled with my disdain for the style of content Sega has opted to go with, I don't see much to entertain me going forward.

Those two (and the related subpoints) were the biggest things, but there are a lot of smaller quirks (lack of proper rare enemies, dARKers errywhere, the obnoxious camera, Rappy costume and Pink Tuxedo parties, etc.) which I don't really feel like delving into in any real depth right now.

Commence raging. >_>

Great post, pso2 is missing something huge, you just can feel it and i think you did a pretty good point showing what.

Tbh i'd be a happy person if psu servers had never shut down and pso2 was never made, although its not a bad game, it lacks soul imo, plus these "free to play" courses that companies are following now are ruining all the games

[Zyrusticae]

2) I don't like the item system this game uses, and in particular, the way it handles rare items.

This one, I know I'll catch Hell for (as i already have elsewhere), but it's honestly one of the most important aspects of the game for me, and I don't really enjoy the way it's set up.

To start with, there is not really a logical progression for the quality of non-rare weapons. Rather than it being a sensible 1*->2*-3*, etc. type of setup, we have 2* items outclassing 4*s, and 5*s outclassing even some 8*s. It's just a jumbled mess that lacks elegance and feels illogical. Then there is the whole deal with the RNG affixing and grinding systems that really just makes things irksome, but I'll let others vent about that, as that does seem to be one area a lot of others seem to take issue with. Beats the rubbish we had in PSU at least, I'll give it that.

I feel like pointing out that there IS a progression here, it's just different from all of the previous games.

There are three common weapons per "tier", and two uncommon weapons, along with a rare (the number of these varies per tier). The tier repeats itself with every color (from green -> blue -> blue-violet), getting stronger every time.

With the gunslash, for example, you start with the really thin gunslash, then move up to the straight-edge blade, and then to the one with the wrap-around blade, and then the uncommon weapons (the triangle blades) are better than the commons. The rare is not better than the uncommons at first, but can become better through grinding (but the success chances are very low at higher grinds).


As for the rest of the thread, don't care. Too busy enjoying myself. I understand the desire for a more connected, more linear experience, but the very lore of the game contradicts such a notion (you're flying and dropping down to locations all over each planet, which means going from level to level is literally impossible). It has its own feel that, I think, is not better nor worse, just different. I enjoy the fact that I am visiting hot spots on each planet, along with the fact that I actually have mobility (whereas in the original you were always on the exact same area on the exact same planet each time, which, I guess, is what you wanted, but struck me as distinctly unbelievable after the fiftieth run).

As for grinding and attributes, I seriously think people should learn some self-control in that area. If you don't like the risk, don't take it! I don't like it either, but I don't think it detracts from the game, it's just an option that's there if you want to take it and doesn't take away from you if you don't decide to take the risk. Same thing with the scratches, really. It's your choice if you decide to risk it even knowing how much the odds are stacked against you.

[Wayu]

@SaiKo: If you want to go play PSO1, go play PSO1. If you haven't noticed there's a fairly large 2 next to the title image. That and the weapon progression is Standard (green), Alba (light-blue glowing slightly), Vita (dark blue glowing significantly). It differs for the 4-5 star weapons: Standard is bright-yellow and Alba is a fairly dark orange hue.

Asides from Doodoo living up to his name the only disappointment I really have is the massive lag I get every now and then. Well, that and having to pay to use My Room and My Shop and to get new Mags. Then again, F2P...

-Wayu

[DARKWINGDARA]

pso can be summed up with one word.
ttf.
ONE MORE!

i love pso but please, take off your nostalgia goggles. this game JUST got released and PSO wasn't much better when it just came out, only we had nothing to compare it to.

[Darki]

I don't have many problems with the game that aren't related to it's youth and will be likely solved as the game progresses. Can't wait for sub-classes, new weapons, areas and PAs, and hope they bring at least one beast-like class, Motavians for example, something big, mean and furry.

I also like the grinding/element increasing/affix transferring mechanics. I like that they're a money sink, and I don't care what others say, this system makes weapons with good affix buids worty of their effort and not likely to flood the market like many 10/10 did in PSU.

I don't have any PSO nostalgia nerd issues with the game since PSO never was that good of a game for me. I liked it, I enjoyed it while I played, but I got much more hooked to PSU and I wouldn't care that this game was less similar to it.

my two things with this game are:

1) targetting system. As it was said, it has the ability to hook on the damn furthest monster on screen in the most inconvenient times. Also, the target switch function is horrible, if I'm trying to change the target WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU, FUCK. specially when you're trying to switch between a Dark Ragne's hitpoints, then a spider comes, it switches to it, and then IT NEVER GOES BACK TO THE RAGNE. -_-

2) Free missions. They don't seem that "free" to me. I don't care they're not connected between them, because unlike in PSO, we're not on the same freaking planet. But I'd like that they were actually MUCH LARGER. like, 5 huge multy party areas minimun, without even a final boss, just the ones you'd get from random codes. missions that only end when you go back to the camp ship and tell the game to cut them off. What we have now are just like the normal ones, the only difference is that you can pick them from the exit and you don't need to go talk with the NPC to select them.

[Only $19.99]

the only thing that's not moving me is the music. the music in PSO really accentuated the atmosphere for me. other than that, i feel the only true gripes i have come from the lack of understanding anything i read.

[Jakosifer]

If I wanted the PSO experience I would play PSO. I want the PSO2 experience, which fortunately is different enough to not bore me to tears.

[Zipzo]

As a musician myself (bachelors), I think the tracks are gloriously on par with the PSO theme in terms of pacing, progression, intensity, and ambiance.

The RNG involved in affixing is a necessary evil. Yes, you can fail a lot, or you can succeed a lot. It has the chance of either being really frustrating or really exciting. What you're forgetting is that without a system like this the economic genius's out there who play games will stockpile meseta like no tomorrow, and the economy just gets blasted. It is a gold sink.

It was the same issue in TERA, everyone would bitch about enchanting being way too RNG. The top "grind" was +12, and in order to attempt a grind you had to sacrifice a similar level piece of gear and some expensive materials to get from +6 to +12. People would fail and of course, complain. The enchants are there as a bonus. You don't have to have +12 on everything. Everyone is just so used to being able to acquire or achieve optimal standard gear in the blink of an eye (I blame WoW).

If you don't like the system, don't use it. It likely will not affect your ability to complete missions at all.

Oh, please, don't start on with such blather; I never said anything of the sort. The game's decent enough to merit playing, but it has some pointlessly annoying aspects I don't appreciate. No one likes everything about anything, and if you think you do, you're conveniently forgetting about the last time it annoyed you. Bringing up those things, actually being honest rather than acting like the subject is the greatest of anything that will ever be, is by no means a sign that you're hating it at every turn. Don't be so dramatic and defensive.I'm not being dramatic or defensive. It's a simple fact. You can choose to play, or not play. Nobody is forcing you. Edward has even made that clear himself in comments to the release article.

[sugarFO]

I just can't believe how cheesy the story portions are. I mean yeah, I've watched anime so I know the tropes, but... it just seems so unmoving. Like this is all just one big joke and this D-Arker threat is nbd. Yeah, I know it's in Japanese. I still wish there was more sincerity in the situations with the characters besides all of these melodramatic pauses mid battle with the evil CAST in a suit or w/e and event portions that are just sooo random. In PSO1 I felt like I was going deeper and deeper into a scary, corrupt and evil world as I progressed. Here, I feel like nothing really matters and I feel a bit disconnected from the world as a whole.

My 2cents. inb4 F2P

[Hayde]

...Isn't this a "critique" thread? Why's everyone jumping at people's throat when they say something akin to a previous PSO installment? Wasn't the purpose of this thread to compare PSO2 to previous PSO titles for that "classic/nostalgic" feeling?

"If you don't like it GTFO" seems incredibly silly, it's not like anyone in particular is attacking PSO2. They're merely sharing their opinions and what they like/dislike.

[Zipzo]

...Isn't this a "critique" thread? Why's everyone jumping at people's throat when they say something akin to a previous PSO installment? Wasn't the purpose of this thread to compare PSO2 to previous PSO titles for that "classic/nostalgic" feeling?

"If you don't like it GTFO" seems incredibly silly, it's not like anyone in particular is attacking PSO2. They're merely sharing their opinions and what they like/dislike.Believe what you will, but there's a hefty difference between "If you don't like it, GTFO", and "If it's bothering you, either do something else, or put the game down". The latter can be referred to more as advice.

[sugarFO]

Believe what you will, but there's a hefty difference between "If you don't like it, GTFO", and "If it's bothering you, either do something else, or put the game down". The latter can be referred to more as advice.

I think you need to calm down and let people say what they think about the topic at hand.

[Hayde]

Believe what you will, but there's a hefty difference between "If you don't like it, GTFO", and "If it's bothering you, either do something else, or put the game down". The latter can be referred to more as advice.

Then the mods may as well lock this thread down; because you're simply implying that if anyone had any negative things to say about this game (hence, disappointments/underwhelming feelings) then they may as well "put the game down" or "do something else". No reason to continue the thread in that sense, am I right?

That's all I'm trying to say. I'm not defending the people who has negative things to say about the game--I enjoy the game as it is. I just feel like they have the right to voice their opinions.

[Omisan]

Being in japaneese is my main problem. It isnt one that i can blame on anyone other than my parents for raising me in america. But it is very hard to enjoy a game that you dont really understand.

I dont know what client orders i have or need to do. And i know there are guides but.... dang.... it still isnt convenient or fun to just lower your head and complete an objective without knowing why or what you did it for.

[Zipzo]

I think you need to calm down and let people say what they think about the topic at hand.
And what sort of even an inkling of evidence leads you to believe I'm not calm.

Sounds like you're being pretentious.

[Jakosifer]

This
Fucking
Board

[Zipzo]

Then the mods may as well lock this thread down; because you're simply implying that if anyone had any negative things to say about this game (hence, disappointments/underwhelming feelings) then they may as well "put the game down" or "do something else". No reason to continue the thread in that sense, am I right?

That's all I'm trying to say. I'm not defending the people who has negative things to say about the game--I enjoy the game as it is. I just feel like they have the right to voice their opinions.That's the thing. I disagree with "critique" topics because they are never constructive. Ever. It is a giant snowball of whine, every time without fail. Unlike you, I disapprove of the very existence of these threads because they are generally worthless and add nothing to the betterment of the game.

There are maybe one or two insightful & constructive posts in this entire thread. The rest? Crying. Pointless, needless crying.

[sugarFO]

And what sort of even an inkling of evidence leads you to believe I'm not calm.

Sounds like you're being pretentious.

Things like this:


That's the thing. I disagree with "critique" topics because they are never constructive. Ever. It is a giant snowball of whine, every time without fail. Unlike you, I disapprove of the very existence of these threads because they are generally worthless and add nothing to the betterment of the game.

There are maybe one or two insightful & constructive posts in this entire thread. The rest? Crying. Pointless, needless crying.
You're kind of being a hypocrite. Just as you tell people who have critiques about the game to not play, if you have issues with this topic, you shouldn't read it or participate in it.

[SaiKo]

@SaiKo: If you want to go play PSO1, go play PSO1. If you haven't noticed there's a fairly large 2 next to the title image.

-Wayu

I'm honestly getting rather tired of this...

I don't want PSO. What I want is the rare system and style of progression PSO had with new graphics, an entirely new story (not just "Episode 5"), new controls and combat, more expansive "episodes" with longer, more involved, but very distinct levels that take advantage of the new controls (IE: A lot more emphasis on vertical progression and platforming would be nice), a fresh community, etc.

I'm ready to leave Ragol; I just want an evolution of the same type of experience somewhere else.

Honestly, at this point, I'm even willing to sacrifice the Phantasy Star setting. While the setting definitely added to my enjoyment, If ANY game offered what I wanted, be it Breath of Fire Online, Stargate Online, Generic Horror-themed Game Online, or whatever, I'd gladly jump on board. The problem is nothing has offered that since PSO. So no new online game has been able to satisfy me even though I've been ready to move past PSO itself for years. If I didn't care about the aspects of it that I do though, PSO2 would've never really mattered to me anyway, as there'd have been any number of other games to placate me. It was only for the possibility that this would be the game that offered what I was looking for that I started anticipating PSO2 at all. I suspected I was setting myself up for disappointment from the start, and various early information supported that fear, but I still maintained that hope, as if even the bloody sequel to PSO can't provide what I want, then it's a pretty good sign that nothing ever will.

So I'm willing to accept that this didn't end up being the game for me, but I'd appreciate it if we could steer away from the "GB2PSOKTHX" rubbish.

[Hayde]

Being in japaneese is my main problem. It isnt one that i can blame on anyone other than my parents for raising me in america. But it is very hard to enjoy a game that you dont really understand.

I dont know what client orders i have or need to do. And i know there are guides but.... dang.... it still isnt convenient or fun to just lower your head and complete an objective without knowing why or what you did it for.

Are you Japanese American? Because it would surely be odd for your parents to live and have raised you in Japan if you weren't...well, Japanese. If you are, surely your parents or some relatives could help you out in learning the basics?

[Omisan]

Are you Japanese American? Because it would surely be odd for your parents to live and have raised you in Japan if you weren't...well, Japanese. If you are, surely your parents or some relatives could help you out in learning the basics?

Nah im just saying i cant really say it is a game fault that the game is in a language i don't understand. It does however make it less enjoyable. And from all the stuff i see about the English server, i think it would be better to stay on Japanese and just memorize the menus entirely eventually. And hope for the patch

[Zipzo]

Are you Japanese American? Because it would surely be odd for your parents to live and have raised you in Japan if you weren't...well, Japanese. If you are, surely your parents or some relatives could help you out in learning the basics?
Nothing in his post indicates that he lived in Japan. I think he was just alluring to the fact that it's not his fault he was born and raised in America. Misinterpretation, I think.

Also, SugerFO, this is for you...http://peacefulplanetcommunication.com/2010/05/27/calm-down/

[Hobbez]

I have been enjoying my time playing PSO2. There are some things that annoy me (IE: time limit missions to unlock new content, lobby issues, etc.) but none of them are gamebreaking or even begin to make me think of not playing.

However, the problem I have with this game is that I feel calling this PSO2 is like calling the new Star Trek movie Star Trek, or calling the new Tranformers movies Transformers. Or the horror filled nighmare that the, now cancelled, TNMT movie would have been. Sure some of these new remakes and sequals were really cool movies, so long as I can convince myself its just another space movie, or just another big robot movie.

Is PSO2 a good game? Hell yes it is. But is it really PSO2 or another Micheal Bay remake? I like this game, I'm having fun, and I intend to keep playing and supporting it, but to me, its just another great game, not a sequal to PSO.

[Zipzo]

I have been enjoying my time playing PSO2. There are some things that annoy me (IE: time limit missions to unlock new content, lobby issues, etc.) but none of them are gamebreaking or even begin to make me think of not playing.

However, the problem I have with this game is that I feel calling this PSO2 is like calling the new Star Trek movie Star Trek, or calling the new Tranformers movies Transformers. Or the horror filled nighmare that the, now cancelled, TNMT movie would have been. Sure some of these new remakes and sequals were really cool movies, so long as I can convince myself its just another space movie, or just another big robot movie.

Is PSO2 a good game? Hell yes it is. But is it really PSO2 or another Micheal Bay remake? I like this game, I'm having fun, and I intend to keep playing and supporting it, but to me, its just another great game, not a sequal to PSO.What would you change to make it "more like PSO"?

I feel the game is PSO in every stretch of the acronym.

[jooozek]

Why doesn't PSO2 feel like PSO to many people? Well, there is numerous reasons:

- FOcasts/FOcaseals
- the combat isn't clunky
- amazing camera control
- randomly generated maps
- client orders
- matter board
- 30FPS not enough? go ahead for 60FPS - that not enough? go for 120FPS - if that's not enough and you want to heat up your graphic card totally unlock your framerate
- TPS system
- weather system
- PSE system
- auto-follow
- partner cards
- dynamic music system
- different activities that will net you some semi-decent rewards (interrupt rankings / time trial rankings)
- Codes system
- you aren't forced to kill every single bug to open some door to progress further
- respawning monsters and boxes
- multiparty areas
- perfect interface that allows for massive customisation
- proper support of mouse and keyboard combo
- player shops
- much better customisation of player characters
- voice acting
- game being generally up to 2012 standards
(- hopefully a constant stream of content)

Did I miss something?

[Zipzo]

Why doesn't PSO2 feel like PSO to many people? Well, there is numerous reasons:

- FOcasts/FOcaseals
- the combat isn't clunky
- amazing camera control
- randomly generated maps
- client orders
- matter board
- 30FPS not enough? go ahead for 60FPS - that not enough? go for 120FPS - if that's not enough and you want to heat up your graphic card totally unlock your framerate
- TPS system
- weather system
- PSE system
- auto-follow
- partner cards
- dynamic music system
- different activities that will net you some semi-decent rewards (interrupt rankings / time trial rankings)
- Codes system
- you aren't forced to kill every single bug to open some door to progress further
- respawning monsters and boxes
- multiparty areas
- perfect interface that allows for massive customisation
- proper support of mouse and keyboard combo
- player shops
- much better customisation of player characters
- voice acting
- game being generally up to 2012 standards
(- hopefully a constant stream of content)

Did I miss something?I like you.

Although PSO did have a couple of those things too.

[Halcyote]

Why doesn't PSO2 feel like PSO to many people? Well, there is numerous reasons:

- FOcasts/FOcaseals
- the combat isn't clunky
- amazing camera control
- randomly generated maps
- client orders
- matter board
- 30FPS not enough? go ahead for 60FPS - that not enough? go for 120FPS - if that's not enough and you want to heat up your graphic card totally unlock your framerate
- TPS system
- weather system
- PSE system
- auto-follow
- partner cards
- dynamic music system
- different activities that will net you some semi-decent rewards (interrupt rankings / time trial rankings)
- Codes system
- you aren't forced to kill every single bug to open some door to progress further
- respawning monsters and boxes
- multiparty areas
- perfect interface that allows for massive customisation
- proper support of mouse and keyboard combo
- player shops
- much better customisation of player characters
- voice acting
- game being generally up to 2012 standards
(- hopefully a constant stream of content)

Did I miss something?
don't forget the whole concept of "atmosphere"

[jooozek]

don't forget the whole concept of "atmosphere"

Surely you mean nostalgia, right?

[Halcyote]

Surely you mean nostalgia, right?
idk they seem to be interchangeable terms at this point when it comes to talking about PSO

[dilakri87]

? SPECIAL WEAPON

[Zyrusticae]

To be fair, PSO had a very striking atmosphere due to the whole "going deeper and deeper into the dungeon" thing it had going, along with the music and the slow, plodding pace (I DON'T miss that last one).

[Zipzo]

To be fair, PSO had a very striking atmosphere due to the whole "going deeper and deeper into the dungeon" thing it had going, along with the music and the slow, plodding pace (I DON'T miss that last one).PSO was also designed to be a complete single player experience, since not everyone would be able to play online in both cases, DC & GC.

PSO2 is purely online, so while there are some elements of a single player progression theme, it's not the focus. The focus is about grouping up and pillaging the missions with your friends in the most efficient way possible.

[Asuni]

I like this game a lot. I can't say I like it more than PSO because it's a special game to me but, I really love this game.

[watashiwa]

Why doesn't PSO2 feel like PSO to many people? Well, there is numerous reasons:

- FOcasts/FOcaseals
- the combat isn't clunky
- amazing camera control
- randomly generated maps
- client orders
- matter board
- 30FPS not enough? go ahead for 60FPS - that not enough? go for 120FPS - if that's not enough and you want to heat up your graphic card totally unlock your framerate
- TPS system
- weather system
- PSE system
- auto-follow
- partner cards
- dynamic music system
- different activities that will net you some semi-decent rewards (interrupt rankings / time trial rankings)
- Codes system
- you aren't forced to kill every single bug to open some door to progress further
- respawning monsters and boxes
- multiparty areas
- perfect interface that allows for massive customisation
- proper support of mouse and keyboard combo
- player shops
- much better customisation of player characters
- voice acting
- game being generally up to 2012 standards
(- hopefully a constant stream of content)

Did I miss something?

Excellent post. Yes, the people who keep trumping about how PSO isn't a true sequel to PSO2, etc., etc. definitely have their nostalgia goggles on too tight. They're almost as bad as those who say FF7 is the best FF ever released.

[Zipzo]

Excellent post. Yes, the people who keep trumping about how PSO isn't a true sequel to PSO2, etc., etc. definitely have their nostalgia goggles on too tight. They're almost as bad as those who say FF7 is the best FF ever released.Well...to be fair, which new FF trumps 7?

[watashiwa]

Well...to be fair, which new FF trumps 7?

Final Fantasy X, my favorite, which isn't even new, by far.

Final Fantasy XIII-2 was also decent, IMHO, though too short.

I'd even say Final Fantasy 8 and 9 were better than 7.

Note: While reading this post, remember people can have differing opinions and they both can be valid. ;)

[jooozek]

Well...to be fair, which new FF trumps 7?
Vagrant Story, shortly after it 12.

Vagrant Story takes place in Ivalice and is better than FFs

[DARKWINGDARA]

Final Fantasy X, my favorite, which isn't even new, by far.

Final Fantasy XIII-2 was also decent, IMHO, though too short.

I'd even say Final Fantasy 8 and 9 were better than 7.

Note: While reading this post, remember people can have differing opinions and they both can be valid. ;)

lmfao, oh god i am laughing so hard, how can anyone remotely enjoy 13 and it's sequel in the slightest? christ i dont want to live in this world anymore.

[TetsuyaHikari]

Well...to be fair, which new FF trumps 7?

Well...to be fair, which old FF trumps 7?

Let's see here... FFI, FFII, FFIII, FFIV (my favorite FF, by the way), FFV, and FFVI. It doesn't have to be new. That's the problem though. FF hasn't been the same since VII. As far as I'm concerned, VI is the last one even worth mentioning.

And I have no idea how this thread got this far off-topic, lol.

[watashiwa]

lmfao, oh god i am laughing so hard, how can anyone remotely enjoy 13 and it's sequel in the slightest? christ i dont want to live in this world anymore.

Yep, I also liked X-2. Beat it four times, in fact! Loved fighting Trema every time. :)

You should probably say your goodbyes to your friends and family.

[Shakuri]

On topic: I have disappointments with this game, but none of them have to do with PSO1, since I wasn't looking for the "PSO" experience anyway. Just the "PS" experience, which can mean a lot of different things.

Off topic: X-2 had the best battle system in the series, so I don't blame you there. Everything else was terrible though.

[gigawuts]

Why doesn't PSO2 feel like PSO to many people? Well, there is numerous reasons:

- FOcasts/FOcaseals
- the combat isn't clunky
- amazing camera control
- randomly generated maps
- client orders
- matter board
- 30FPS not enough? go ahead for 60FPS - that not enough? go for 120FPS - if that's not enough and you want to heat up your graphic card totally unlock your framerate
- TPS system
- weather system
- PSE system
- auto-follow
- partner cards
- dynamic music system
- different activities that will net you some semi-decent rewards (interrupt rankings / time trial rankings)
- Codes system
- you aren't forced to kill every single bug to open some door to progress further
- respawning monsters and boxes
- multiparty areas
- perfect interface that allows for massive customisation
- proper support of mouse and keyboard combo
- player shops
- much better customisation of player characters
- voice acting
- game being generally up to 2012 standards
(- hopefully a constant stream of content)

Did I miss something?

This is a good post that highlights all the good stuff in PSO2. I feel like we could do with a post that highlights all the bad stuff in PSO2, but I think that's already been done here.

Also if anyone has any issues with FOcasts then dealwithit.gif

[Amoramora]

I think the thing that really disappoints me about PSO2 is that you have to pay a fee for timed access to your room. I feel like your room is one of the many things that makes PSO really stand out and apart from other MMOs and it was really special to me back in dreamcast PSO and PSU. It just saddens me how SEGA is charging for features that I've loved about PSO, features that used to just be a part of the experience. While I've never really been bothered by cash shops (sometimes it's fun to shop for useless, cute costume items), PSO2 kind of makes me start to resent the idea.

Even with that said, I still love the PSO universe and have been a fan for about 11 years now. PSO2 has definitely made enormous improvements. I just feel as though the cash shop is more of an intrusion than a welcomed addition.

[Zipzo]

I think the thing that really disappoints me about PSO2 is that you have to pay a fee for timed access to your room. I feel like your room is one of the many things that makes PSO really stand out and apart from other MMOs and it was really special to me back in dreamcast PSO and PSU. It just saddens me how SEGA is charging for features that I've loved about PSO, features that used to just be a part of the experience. While I've never really been bothered by cash shops (sometimes it's fun to shop for useless, cute costume items), PSO2 kind of makes me start to resent the idea.

Even with that said, I still love the PSO universe and have been a fan for about 11 years now. PSO2 has definitely made enormous improvements. I just feel as though the cash shop is more of an intrusion than a welcomed addition.
I don't remember a "My Room" feature in PSO at all?

[condiments]

I was thinking of jumping into the game when the game released, but I'll think I'll hold off at least until fall when the new classes get released. I certainly won't condemn the game on the basis of what I've seen, as the combat looks like fun, but it doesn't look like the altogether complete experience I'm looking for. I'll wait until more difficulty levels, classes get expanded(little cookie cutter right now), and the challenge gets ramped up. My experience with Vindictus has jaded me towards the F2P games(grinding levels, banal level and art design), so I'm altogether wary of investing time into this game.

Some of what others have said have confirmed my suspicions, so I'll hold off until more stuff gets released.

[Zyrusticae]

I feel like your room is one of the many things that makes PSO really stand out and apart from other MMOs and it was really special to me back in dreamcast PSO and PSU. It just saddens me how SEGA is charging for features that I've loved about PSO, features that used to just be a part of the experience.
I'm sorry, what is this? There was a "My Room" for dreamcast PSO? Someone explain this to me, my memory refuses to recall any such notion! If it was there and I somehow completely missed it, I must know! :-o


...Also, I remain amused at how so many people suddenly hate a feature for costing money to use, as though charging for something automatically makes it worse or inferior. It really makes me wonder sometimes.

[jooozek]

This is a good post that highlights all the good stuff in PSO2. I feel like we could do with a post that highlights all the bad stuff in PSO2, but I think that's already been done here.

You should make such a post then, I'm having a hard time with coming up with stuff that is objectively bad (aside of the F2P/P2P quirks but those are methods of acquiring money for SEGA, not gameplay stuff [like trading, if you compare PSO and PSO2 you should obviously assume that you and everyone will get the monthly sub so stuff like trading isn't only for people getting the sub is objectively not a bad thing comparatively]).

[Amoramora]

It was one of the earlier ones, it may not have been PSO. I've played them all and it has been years, so I may be getting them mixed up.

I'm sure PSU had rooms, but I think there was another PS before that that did as well. I think. In any case, I apologize for all the confusion! XD

As far as "hating" the feature, that it's "worse or inferior"... I'm pretty sure I never said anything that implied such a thing. I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. I was simply venting a concern... o.o;

[Zyrusticae]

It was one of the earlier ones, it may not have been PSO. I've played them all and it has been years, so I may be getting them mixed up.

I'm sure PSU had rooms, but I think there was another PS before that that did as well. I think. In any case, I apologize for all the confusion! XD
...Nope, no Phantasy Star game before PSU had My Room. To my knowledge, at least.


As far as "hating" the feature, that it's "worse or inferior"... I'm pretty sure I never said anything that implied such a thing. I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. I was simply venting a concern... o.o;
Well, at least in general it seems lots of folks automatically hate things for having to cost money, which I find endlessly amusing.

It's hard not to get the sense that people will not be satisfied unless absolutely everything they care about is free...

[ThePendragon]

PSO was not a very good game. Get over it. It was a a great experience for it's time, because there was nothing else like it on consoles at the time. However, it does not hold up to the test of time. The series has continually advanced and PSO2 has taken all that advancement and lumped it into a big ball of awesome. Still some tweaks that would be nice, but SEGA has done a great job of keeping this series moving forward. Too bad the same can't be said of their western support for the series.

[gigawuts]

You should make such a post then, I'm having a hard time with coming up with stuff that is objectively bad (aside of the F2P/P2P quirks but those are methods of acquiring money for SEGA, not gameplay stuff [like trading, if you compare PSO and PSO2 you should obviously assume that you and everyone will get the monthly sub so stuff like trading isn't only for people getting the sub is objectively not a bad thing comparatively]).

Basically, it's just the grinding and affix systems. Everything else is a matter of preference, like the order of unlocking quests and free field or the level cap quests. The grinding and affix system is objectively bad - it penalizes and rewards people arbitrarily despite doing literally nothing different besides attempt X action at Y moment. Completely removing control from a player's hand is under no circumstances a good game design decision. It's frustrating beyond repair.

The client orders for key game mechanics should really be something separate from client orders, and auto-unlock, like the mag and level cap and free field stuff. That's just a matter of convenient game design though. Some people will like that you need to actually talk to someone to suddenly be getting stronger from busting your ass, and well I guess they're welcome to that opinion. But then, even in PSO1 you needed to speak to the principal to get the go-ahead for each next area in the same playthrough that you beat your current area's boss.

edit: Also, I agree 100% that the premium compares very closely with the monthly sub. The need to be premium to trade is a-ok in my book. I look at this F2P model as basically get everything for a price, or get barebones for free to get you to want to pay. I see no reason that it shouldn't work this way.

[Nu Lo Yin]

This game acutally gave me the nostalgic feel I have been longing for, for a very long time. I loved PSO1, and though I was PSU fan, I still felt PSO was better and I longed for those times again. Now on to PSO2, and I love every minute of it so far. THis game is awesome and brings back so many memories. I am once again feeling a feeling I have not felt in a long time with video games. I thought it was due to me getting older, and games are just losing their value to me as I age, but this game proved me wrong. That feeling is still there. And this game reminds me of it, and the awesomeness that PSO1 was

[Amoramora]

...Nope, no Phantasy Star game before PSU had My Room. To my knowledge, at least.


Well, at least in general it seems lots of folks automatically hate things for having to cost money, which I find endlessly amusing.

It's hard not to get the sense that people will not be satisfied unless absolutely everything they care about is free...


Ohhh, okay. Then I was mistaken. Thanks for clarifying, that would've driven me nuts for the rest of the day!

Haha, is it really that odd for people to love freebies? Especially if you're working, have financial responsibilities, and games are just a hobby. Personally, I find nice little freebies to be a real relief. One less thing that demands money. Of course, one shouldn't expect them all the time, but it's understandable to want relief from capitalism every now and again. Now, as far as "hating" things because they cost money, I don't really get that impression, personally. I think, or in my opinion, the concern may be that the item or service may not provide as many features as the individual feels is worth its price (or the quality of those features may be in question), but all that's subjective. Personally (and this is just me), I'd rather just pay a monthly fee and receive all the services and features instead of a monthly fee (room) AND other micro transactions. That can really add up, you know? ^^;

In any case, PSO2 is still great. That's something most of us can agree on. There're just different little things about it that make us frown, is all.

[Nu Lo Yin]

I want me some classic Dark Falz though!

[Zorafim]

This is a good post that highlights all the good stuff in PSO2. I feel like we could do with a post that highlights all the bad stuff in PSO2, but I think that's already been done here.

Here, let me do that now.

...

And~ it's done.

Really, my only complaints are the lack of content between lv20-30, and the price of some of the cash shop stuff. I would complain about the randomness of cash shop items which require the scratch card, but you can just buy those with meseta anyway.
Oh, and I'm enjoying my two mags new mags.


PSO was not a very good game. Get over it.

Sorry, no. PSO is a classic. I never found a game which did all the things it did, as well as it did, until PSO2. To this day it's still enjoyable, and I suspect the fan servers will be up for quite a while. Comparing PSO2 to PSO is natural, as was comparing PSU to PSO. It's just now, Sega finally came out with a game that's better.

[Amoramora]

I want me some classic Dark Falz though!

Haha! Agreed! I remember the first time I noticed all the faces in the ground. I was so freaked out. I said "oh god, I can't stop stepping on them!" XD

[Zipzo]

This is a good post that highlights all the good stuff in PSO2. I feel like we could do with a post that highlights all the bad stuff in PSO2, but I think that's already been done here.

Also if anyone has any issues with FOcasts then dealwithit.gifNo, I don't think it has. Care to elaborate?

[gigawuts]

No, I don't think it has. Care to elaborate?


Basically, it's just the grinding and affix systems. Everything else is a matter of preference, like the order of unlocking quests and free field or the level cap quests. The grinding and affix system is objectively bad - it penalizes and rewards people arbitrarily despite doing literally nothing different besides attempt X action at Y moment. Completely removing control from a player's hand is under no circumstances a good game design decision. It's frustrating beyond repair.

The client orders for key game mechanics should really be something separate from client orders, and auto-unlock, like the mag and level cap and free field stuff. That's just a matter of convenient game design though. Some people will like that you need to actually talk to someone to suddenly be getting stronger from busting your ass, and well I guess they're welcome to that opinion. But then, even in PSO1 you needed to speak to the principal to get the go-ahead for each next area in the same playthrough that you beat your current area's boss.

edit: Also, I agree 100% that the premium compares very closely with the monthly sub. The need to be premium to trade is a-ok in my book. I look at this F2P model as basically get everything for a price, or get barebones for free to get you to want to pay. I see no reason that it shouldn't work this way.

I love how defensive people get when I make the shocking claim that a video game can be anything but perfect and the second coming of noone less than Jesus himself.

[SELENNA]

The loot sucks ass. I'm not saying section IDs were the best, but at least the items were worth it. I really dislike the way it's handled in PSO2.

[Nu Lo Yin]

Haha! Agreed! I remember the first time I noticed all the faces in the ground. I was so freaked out. I said "oh god, I can't stop stepping on them!" XD

I know! I hope they put him in somewhere again...

[Zorafim]

Actually... Reading through this thread, I remembered a few complaints I have.

First is a comparison between PSO and PSO2. The long dungeon crawling. I really enjoy starting on a new spot on a map, and having to slowly work my way to the end objective, with little bonuses scattered in dead ends. This is what made the RPG genre, which still lasts today. Progressing through a map in PSO2 is less satisfying than I'd like. I can see a dead end coming, so I can just go another direction and be on my way.

Still, this is a gameplay trade off. The game is less about exploring, and more about action and gameplay. There are a million other games where I can dungeon crawl. Having one game with something a bit looser isn't all bad. And besides that, apparently there's a mission mode which brings back what I was talking about, so I should probably go do that before judging anything.

Secondly, and this is something that annoys me more. Free missions, and how they're grouped into other quests. When someone looks for a free mission, they look for the biggest group, since that's the group that is most likely to be killing things quickly. But a good chunk of that group might just be skipping to the boss for a matter board or client mission. And on the flip side, someone may just want to kill a boss, but can't find any parties because they just want to do the free mission. So they may need to solo the boss.

This can be fixed with better community communication, but it can also be fixed by having levels which focus on quickly getting to a boss, and other levels which focus on just exploring a free mission. If you want to hunt bosses, do mission A. If you want to do PSE hunting, do Mission B. Seems more fluid to me.

And as a side complaint, free mission size and mapping. Doing Forest's lv20 free mission was a pain, because it was just a split to three hallways at one time. Backtracking through those small areas wasn't fun. I'd rather have a huge field to fight through, or at least hallways which connect into a circle. Once I got to Desert, this was pretty much fixed. But for some levels, it's sometimes an issue.

[MelancholyWitch]

Well after reading some of the pages here I see a lot of people are putting their love for how good the game is before actually realizing how unlike PSO2 is from PSO1, I've been playing PSO since I first saw it on the Dreamcast, many of years ago I also played PSU on all servers but JP ones. I can honestly say that anyone like me who has had that much experience can agree with me that this game is more of a sequel to PSU than PSO. Of course it does bring some nostalgia to it with all the same names of classes/items/techniques around but that doesn't truly make it a sequel to PSO1...there are many problems with PSO2 that make it way too much of a PSU than PSO.

First off taking TP out of the game....that's a no brainer.

Mags, they are very unlike PSO in terms of feeding and evolution, if you want a hybrid mag that isn't completely useless you basically have to get your main Atk, & Def stat up with some ability, (unless you don't plan on using 9 star +10 weapons then you can have whatever stats you want) The evolution stages just seem so generic and linear, there was more randomness to the outcome of your mag in PSO1 despite there only being 4 stats to level. You also get only 1 stat point per level, unlike in PSO1.

There's really no other modes in the game, the time attack isn't very appealing and just seems more like a speed run you'd do in a TA clan on PSU. PSO2 desperately needs a challenge and or battle mode of some form, with rewards as good as PSO1 had. Those S rank weapons were an excellent idea, being able to name them as you please, I'm surprised they are not in this game.

The maps seem a lot shorter because you just end up sticking in the multiparty area roaming around instead of doing multiple runs, this is very unlike PSO, PSO was about run the same mission over & over again for that certain rare you wanted, not roaming the same map in hopes of spawning more monsters and codes.

The leveling is to simplistic, the level caps are too easy to reach and Sega is trying to slow it down by putting in very tedious and annoying client orders (quests) which again, is very unlike PSO.

Where are my Lobby chairs? rofl.

The uselessness of what class you are, in other words basically you're a RAnewearl so what? you're just a ranger in PSO2, nothing special. Unfortunately there is nothing that makes you unique compared to other newmans of different classes or other Rangers of different races, in PSO being something like a RAmarl felt unique you could be a good support to your group still even while dealing Ranged damage, or a HUnewearl matched with a group of other hunters, being able to give everyone s/d, with some good heals while still being an all hunter group.

Let's bring back stuff like Rappy costumes and bikini's because that's so PSO....

Casts don't have traps and Rangers have to use skill points to get them, um wtf? Reminds me of PSU where you had to be a certain class (Protranser) to use AOE traps (the other traps were useable by most people but were not really needed except for freeze traps but still not something you saw in PSO1) not race... still not convinced this is more like PSU?

ooh dear techniques.... why only forces can use them is beyond me, even in PSU the lower level types (hunters for example) could use some techniques on their weapons if they had a low rank wand or something, so why no one but forces can use techniques? that's beyond me but this is again very unlike PSO and more something that comes from PSU.

Having multiple classes, this is Sega's solution to level cap being too easy to reach and for those who are unwilling to pay extra for more character slots. This is very unlike PSO, in PSO if you wanted the experience of having another class you had to level it from a completely new character, in PSU you could just switch type and have your PA disks in original form so if you wanted to be a MasterForce one day all your PA disks are in your common box so you just switch them out for your GunMaster ones and there you go switching class...huh... kinda like PSO2 is now...

So tell me how exactly is this game more like PSO than PSU? with stuff like PP, PA's, no techniques unless you're a Force,mag chains are...weird, Mags PB seem more just for damage when in PSO they were used for support to get your group amazing Shift & Deband stats, sooo can't even do that here... seriously though I'm waiting for those elitist responses that are like "NO NO NO You're wrong PSO2 is a true sequel to PSO" OK how !?!?! if all the major features in PSO that made PSO what it is are NOT in PSO2.

PSO2 over all is amazing and fun game, it's very unique compared to other games of similar genre, one of the best games I've played in the last bit of years, but is it a true sequel to PSO1? No unfortunately this is more of a sequel to PSU, they could of at least continued the story... but no that was too much to ask for I guess.

[Quintus_The_Force]

Okay, I just finished reading this entire thread (to this point) sounds like they changed alot of things, I anticipate alot of adjustments ill hafta make. Thank you for your honest input fellas, all of your posts were appreciated! & Argh!... cant wait for PSO2 to release on Vita in the West (if it ever will).

[Flame]

Okay, I just finished reading this entire thread (to this point) sounds like they changed alot of things, I anticipate alot of adjustments ill hafta make. Thank you for your honest input fellas, all of your posts were appreciated! & Argh!... cant wait for PSO2 to release on Vita in the West (if it ever will).

Prepare your self for a great combat system, terrible randomly generated levels, and client order based progression. Have fun and see you online!

[BIG OLAF]

PSO2 over all is amazing and fun game, it's very unique compared to other games of similar genre, one of the best games I've played in the last bit of years, but is it a true sequel to PSO1? No unfortunately this is more of a sequel to PSU, they could of at least continued the story... but no that was too much to ask for I guess.

Sequel to PSO only in namesake. Not really a true sequel to any Phantasy Star game from what we've seen. It's a standalone game, just with PSO's name-tag attached. Which I think is a good thing.

If we're going by gameplay, it's a 'sequel' to PSP2i, which makes sense, seeing as that was the latest PS game to come out aside from PSO2.

[gigawuts]

And PSO wasn't a true sequel to PS IV, rendering the true-ness argument completely moot.

Fact is, it's a "spiritual" successor (god I hate that term) and it cherry picks elements from all games that precede it - both in its own IP as well as its competition. It's a fun game with great combat mechanics, but simply lacks large enough maps to really feel like a true successor to a significant part of what made PSO1 great for many of its fans.

Merely adding larger multiparty areas with some more visually distinctive map sections is all that's needed, I feel. Also, first and second areas need to be more distinct as well. The desert does a good job of making them visually identifiable, with the second area having lots of artificial structures and the first area being largely natural. That's great. I'm feeling like each area needs its own unique room though, that there's only ever one of. The engine room in ruins 2, the control room in ruins 3, the explosion room in ruins 1. The lava room in caves 1, the waterfall room in caves 2, the...wait, did caves 3 even have a unique room? Still, my point stands.

Some more area-specific mobs would be nicer too. Right now there's definitely mobs that are more likely to spawn in area 2 or area 1, that's great. Garongos, Gilnas, etc.

[MelancholyWitch]

Sequel to PSO only in namesake. Not really a true sequel to any Phantasy Star game from what we've seen. It's a standalone game, just with PSO's name-tag attached. Which I think is a good thing.

If we're going by gameplay, it's a 'sequel' to PSP2i, which makes sense, seeing as that was the latest PS game to come out aside from PSO2.

Ah yes I imagine that it would be more similar to that than anything I never really played it though PSU was enough to keep me off PS games for a bit, the ideas behind PSO2 although reflect a lot of stuff that was done in PSU.


And PSO wasn't a true sequel to PS IV, rendering the true-ness argument completely moot.

Yes....but I"m very certain Sega wasn't advertising PSO as a sequel to PS IV like they were for PSO2.

[Hayde]

It's important to note that like how Sakaguchi left Square Enix as one of the original creators of Final Fantasy, Yuji Naka also left left Sega/Sonic Team some years back. That being said, I don't think it's nearly as bad of an impact as Sakai had been working the Phantasy Star series since at least PSO DC, and probably longer than that (couldn't find much info on him, actually). But, just an interesting fact to throw out there, as Mr. Naka was involved in the original PS and Sonic games.

[Zipzo]

I love how defensive people get when I make the shocking claim that a video game can be anything but perfect and the second coming of noone less than Jesus himself.
Is that an excuse/deflection for not wanting/being able to actually give us the outline you speak of?

[jooozek]

Well after reading some of the pages here I see a lot of people are putting their love for how good the game is before actually realizing how unlike PSO2 is from PSO1, I've been playing PSO since I first saw it on the Dreamcast, many of years ago I also played PSU on all servers but JP ones. I can honestly say that anyone like me who has had that much experience can agree with me that this game is more of a sequel to PSU than PSO. Of course it does bring some nostalgia to it with all the same names of classes/items/techniques around but that doesn't truly make it a sequel to PSO1...there are many problems with PSO2 that make it way too much of a PSU than PSO.
Would you like PSO with just updated graphics and just new levels and reskinned monsters instead?


First off taking TP out of the game....that's a no brainer.
What seems to be a "no brainer"? That everyone who wanted to use techniques frequently had to be loaded with fluids? I guess it was.


Mags, they are very unlike PSO in terms of feeding and evolution, if you want a hybrid mag that isn't completely useless you basically have to get your main Atk, & Def stat up with some ability, (unless you don't plan on using 9 star +10 weapons then you can have whatever stats you want) The evolution stages just seem so generic and linear, there was more randomness to the outcome of your mag in PSO1 despite there only being 4 stats to level.
Mags system has changed, could you set up trigger actions for mags in PSO? No, you couldn't. I dread the times where you had to use specific classes with specific sections IDs to get the rare mags. And really, lets not talk about weapon requirements, its pretty content sensitive - we don't really know if ANY mags are useless. You can only take potshots and you will most likely be off by miles.


There's really no other modes in the game, the time attack isn't very appealing and just seems more like a speed run you'd do in a TA clan on PSU. PSO2 desperately needs a challenge and or battle mode of some form, with rewards as good as PSO1 had. Those S rank weapons were an excellent idea, being able to name them as you please, I'm surprised they are not in this game.
In one of the interviews Sakai mentioned that they would have to implement PvP when the game will come over to Korea (or something like that, it should be somewhere on bumped.org)


The maps seem a lot shorter because you just end up sticking in the multiparty area roaming around instead of doing multiple runs, this is very unlike PSO, PSO was about run the same mission over & over again for that certain rare you wanted, not roaming the same map in hopes of spawning more monsters and codes.
The difference is that the only thing that would differ in PSO between runs was the occasional rare monster (which are already have been announced for PSO2, same goes for rare bosses). If you ask me, restarting the same mission over and over again compared to running in circles but with stuff popping out randomly is much worse. I will pick the multiparty areas any day.


The leveling is to simplistic, the level caps are too easy to reach and Sega is trying to slow it down by putting in very tedious and annoying client orders (quests) which again, is very unlike PSO.
How long would it take you to get to level 40? Remember, we are still at hard mode level.


Where are my Lobby chairs? rofl.
They will propably come in either AC or FUN scratch.


The uselessness of what class you are, in other words basically you're a RAnewearl so what? you're just a ranger in PSO2, nothing special. Unfortunately there is nothing that makes you unique compared to other newmans of different classes or other Rangers of different races, in PSO being something like a RAmarl felt unique you could be a good support to your group still even while dealing Ranged damage, or a HUnewearl matched with a group of other hunters, being able to give everyone s/d, with some good heals while still being an all hunter group.
Remember that 3 classes are still coming to PSO2, they will most likely be what you are looking for. Instead of the perks being locked to races, they are locked to skill trees. I don't know how everyone feels about that but personally I like that - its one of those things that make your character different from other characters of the same class. I'm kinda neutral on the stats, even though you can be a FOcast and the difference at level 40 isn't that big, the gap will surely get bigger with time.[/QUOTE]


Let's bring back stuff like Rappy costumes and bikini's because that's so PSO....
Set model detail to 1 through the file config and all your problems vanish.


Casts don't have traps and Rangers have to use skill points to get them, um wtf? Reminds me of PSU where you had to be a certain class (Protranser) to use AOE traps (the other traps were useable by most people but were not really needed except for freeze traps but still not something you saw in PSO1) not race... still not convinced this is more like PSU?
So basically you don't like changes, yes? Personally, I want to play PSO2. PSO2 in the sense of a proper, next title in the series and not something that reeks of the Call of Duty Modern Warfare to Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 transition.


ooh dear techniques.... why only forces can use them is beyond me, even in PSU the lower level types (hunters for example) could use some techniques on their weapons if they had a low rank wand or something, so why no one but forces can use techniques? that's beyond me but this is again very unlike PSO and more something that comes from PSU.
What exactly is lacking for you? Offensive techniques? Your damage would be awful. Support techniques? You've got forces in your party for that. And again, those three classes that are coming will most likely cover this.


Having multiple classes, this is Sega's solution to level cap being too easy to reach and for those who are unwilling to pay extra for more character slots. This is very unlike PSO, in PSO if you wanted the experience of having another class you had to level it from a completely new character, in PSU you could just switch type and have your PA disks in original form so if you wanted to be a MasterForce one day all your PA disks are in your common box so you just switch them out for your GunMaster ones and there you go switching class...huh... kinda like PSO2 is now...
And what is so bad about being able to switch classes on a single character?


So tell me how exactly is this game more like PSO than PSU? with stuff like PP, PA's, no techniques unless you're a Force,mag chains are...weird, Mags PB seem more just for damage when in PSO they were used for support to get your group amazing Shift & Deband stats, sooo can't even do that here... seriously though I'm waiting for those elitist responses that are like "NO NO NO You're wrong PSO2 is a true sequel to PSO" OK how !?!?! if all the major features in PSO that made PSO what it is are NOT in PSO2.
So get me this straight, you would want PSO1 just totally restarted on some new planet(s)?


PSO2 over all is amazing and fun game, it's very unique compared to other games of similar genre, one of the best games I've played in the last bit of years, but is it a true sequel to PSO1? No unfortunately this is more of a sequel to PSU, they could of at least continued the story... but no that was too much to ask for I guess.
Is it a true sequel to PSO1? It is, its titled so.

[Zipzo]

If PSO2 was essentially an Episode 5 I'm pretty sure the disappointment would be astronomical.

Nobody can even think up anything they'd do to make "PSO2" the 'real' PSO2 because they don't have any better ideas than what's being done.

[jooozek]

Nostalgia is pretty much the cancer killing fanbases.

[DARKWINGDARA]

Yep, I also liked X-2. Beat it four times, in fact! Loved fighting Trema every time. :)

You should probably say your goodbyes to your friends and family.



i love 10-2(best job and battle system), but what has that got to do with 13? 13 has THE worst battle system in the series + unlikeable characters except for Sazh, and 13-2 is pathetic.

//////

all i hope for is more detailed levels coming up, everything feels incredibly rushed. only area that was somewhat detailed and atmospheric was forest. i liked the change from open field to a thicket of sorts.

also lol at the dude complaining about grind. seriously, you want it to be grindier?
there are still (supposedly) 160 levels more to be added. PSO was grindy as shit because that's all it revolved around.
grind solo, grind with your friends, grind with the occasional npc, grind with your feet, grind while you're taking a nap, grind grind grind. atleast they figured out 'hey, this is 2012. people don't enjoy grinding for hours on end to gain one level(thus they added pse and codes) even though it kindof still does take several hours to reach the next level outside of city grind.

also there is still a lot of content up and coming, so hold your horses still.

/////


Nostalgia is pretty much the cancer killing fanbases.


^

[gigawuts]

Is that an excuse/deflection for not wanting/being able to actually give us the outline you speak of?

Like the one I already did or what.

It all comes down to opinion. If you don't want to read the long posts where people have already outlined what they dislike about the game then it's not my fault.

[Vylera]

Nostalgia is pretty much the cancer killing fanbases.

Don't forget expectations and the inability to accept change.

[BIG OLAF]

Nostalgia is pretty much the cancer killing fanbases.


Don't forget expectations and the inability to accept change.

^ So much these my head almost exploded. Nostalgia (in video games, at least) ruins just about everything.

[mctastee]

I am 1000% percent satisfied with PSO2. I think they did a very good job on this game. I am gonna be throwing my money at Sega for a while with this game.

[Zyrusticae]

If PSO2 was essentially an Episode 5 I'm pretty sure the disappointment would be astronomical.

Nobody can even think up anything they'd do to make "PSO2" the 'real' PSO2 because they don't have any better ideas than what's being done.
I actually agree that bigger levels would be a boon for the game, and that free fields should be segregated from boss runs, but that's about it, really.

[SaiKo]

Nostalgia is pretty much the cancer killing fanbases.

Nostalgia is the only major thing PSO2 has going for it, in my case.
(Well, that and the spiffy character creator.)

It's quite a different beast than PSO1, and if people treat it as such, that's fine.
It is not objectively better, however, and it IS entirely possible that someone just genuinely likes what PSO did better, you know?

[jooozek]

I actually agree that bigger levels would be a boon for the game, and that free fields should be segregated from boss runs, but that's about it, really.

My guess is that in the end we will get something in akin to "planet free fields", one of the story missions has a transition from forest to tundra (both are on Naueberius), desert is getting mines soon and the puzzle is what are those floating islands above caves. I can totally see them doing that.


It is not objectively better, however, and it IS entirely possible that someone just genuinely likes what PSO did better, you know?
Go ahead then and list all that stuff that PSO1 did better than PSO2.

[gigawuts]

^ So much these my head almost exploded. Nostalgia (in video games, at least) ruins just about everything.

Nothing ruins fun or splits up an entire group of people like the ones that show up and go "this was better in my day." It doesn't matter what it is, even if it's exactly the same god damn thing, someone will make the claim that it was either better then or better now for any reason they can imagine.

That said, nostalgia isn't interchangeable with preference. PSO1 and PSO2 are flat out different games, like sequels should be. Sequels tread the fine line of retaining similarity but also including innovation to avoid becoming stale. Just like music groups though, what attracts you to their early stuff may not be there in their recent stuff. How many people here love some given artist's recent stuff, but hate the late stuff (or v.v.)? Probably most of you.

That's just the way it goes.

edit:


My guess is that in the end we will get something in akin to "planet free fields", one of the story missions has a transition from forest to tundra (both are on Naueberius), desert is getting mines soon and the puzzle is what are those floating islands above tundra. I can totally see them doing that.


Go ahead then and list all that stuff that PSO1 did bettet than PSO2.

This is the one thing I really want. Free fields that are exactly that - letting you meander into the different parts of the planet. I hope they add a third area for each planet if they do that though. Maybe a subterranean lake for Amduscia, something like that.

edit2: Oh and since you guys won't accept it in written out form for some obnoxious reason, I'll just do a bullet point list so you can say you disagree (as though I haven't said that it's down to opinion).
- The rare system where rares almost always perform worse and are largely eye candy unless you invest heavily in an already expensive item
- The affix system where chance decides how much success will cost you
- The grind system where chance decides how much success will cost you
- The inability to choose what drops you will most likely find via section ID
- The fact that you always seem to find rares for the two classes you're not currently playing, meaning you have to sell the item to convert it into meseta and then buy something of comparable price for your class (but not necessarily performance, due to supply/demand)
- Small maps
- Complete removal of special weapon effects
- Complete removal of any uniqueness of a weapon besides its appearance - no more berserk zanba, in fact no more berserk at all
- Removal of hybrid classes in the form of RAmarl/HUnewearl having level 20 techs (Possibly being added later)
- Removal of race-specific abilities, oh how I miss my confusion traps
- Complete inability to decide to wipe a character and replace it for free, unless you're down to your very last character (or have extra accounts)

Then there's probably things I'm not thinking of off the top of my head in the two minutes I'm taking to write this.

edit3: And just because I hate it so darn much
- The rebalancing that turned forces into both the burst damage class AND the healing class. A force healing is a force not damaging, and v.v. This is just awful.

[SaiKo]

Go ahead then and list all that stuff that PSO1 did better than PSO2.

Considering a lot of it is subjective, I suspect you'll dismiss this, but...

Linear progression of distinct levels with the ability to play a full episode from start to finish within one instance.
Backstory interspersed into the main game in addition to the story added by the side quests, rather than just being shoehorned into a completely segregated series of quests that requires obnoxious grinding to even progress through.
Simple and intuitive item system with rares feeling poignant and collectible.
Areas capable of maintaining a consistent and deliberate atmosphere rather than just feeling like constant hotblooded action and randomness.
Much less harsh content-gates and much less a sense of the need to level-grind.
Funky lobbies, and an energetic (if small) ship, rather than a Playstation Homespace and a single room with some machines and a pool.
Rare enemy variations.
Tekkers that actually felt useful and not like a cheap/lazy throwback (though I'll admit this one is subject to change depending on how future rares are handled)
Lack of Pink Tuxedos and dancing rappies everywhere. >_>

There's more, but I need sleep, so I'll leave it at that... And not even getting into preferences about the aesthetic and sound direction of the two...
But really, the big ones for me are the rare/item system and the presentation/setup of the levels. You may pass these off as trivial, but they are a VERY big deal to me, and the lack of them is a major reason I haven't found any other online games enjoyable.

I'll commend PSO2 where it's due and say that the combat, the character customization, the dedicated loot tables, and some of its characters are quite nice. And if coupled with cohesive episodes and an enjoyable rare system, it could have been something I truly enjoyed. Without those aspects though, it doesn't really stand over many of the other online games out there, and certainly isn't as enjoyable to me as PSO was.

To me, PSO2 is at best the Twilight Princess to my Majora's Mask... It improves in a lot of technical ways, but just feels flat, and misses out on what I loved the most. At worst, it's the RE4 to my RE... :-/

Edit: And a huge thank you to gigawuts. Handled that a lot better than I probably did, honestly.

[TetsuyaHikari]

^ So much these my head almost exploded. Nostalgia (in video games, at least) ruins just about everything.

Yeeeeeah... unless you just started gaming in the past decade, I don't know how you could agree that nostalgia ruins video games. I can share with you plenty of new ideas in video games that have just been god awful. Then again, admittedly, I am a little biased towards the older stuff since I'm an 80's kid, so that's when my trek in the world of gaming began.

While there may be some newer titles and ideas I enjoy, there are much more older titles and ideas which have yet to be topped in this day and age, even with our current technology. I like both generations for different reasons, but I'd hardly say that nostalgia is what is killing video games. In fact, I find it to be quite ironic that you complain about nostalgia, yet here you are playing PSO2.

You should remember that video games wouldn't be where they are today if it wasn't for that nostalgia you are treating like a cancer.

[Weaselheart]

comparing a barely released game, of which we barely know a thing, to PSO, that we have all played and loved, that had full episodes and to finish it, we had BB...which its still a great game...but U cannot say pso is better than pso2, or at least not yet...

Technical improvements aside, i admit it still doesnt give the strong feel PSO gave...Even so, all i think this game needs, is time...

[gigawuts]

Considering a lot of it is subjective, I suspect you'll dismiss this, but...

Linear progression of distinct levels with the ability to play a full episode from start to finish within one instance.
Backstory interspersed into the main game in addition to the story added by the side quests, rather than just being shoehorned into a completely segregated series of quests that requires obnoxious grinding to even progress through.
Simple and intuitive item system with rares feeling poignant and collectible.
Areas capable of maintaining a consistent and deliberate atmosphere rather than just feeling like constant hotblooded action and randomness.
Much less harsh content-gates and much less a sense of the need to level-grind.
Funky lobbies, and an energetic (if small) ship, rather than a Playstation Homespace and a single room with some machines and a pool.
Rare enemy variations.
Tekkers that actually felt useful and not like a cheap/lazy throwback (though I'll admit this one is subject to change depending on how future rares are handled)
Lack of Pink Tuxedos and dancing rappies everywhere. >_>

There's more, but I need sleep, so I'll leave it at that... And not even getting into preferences about the aesthetic and sound direction of the two...
But really, the big ones for me are the rare/item system and the presentation/setup of the levels. You may pass these off as trivial, but they are a VERY big deal to me, and the lack of them is a major reason I haven't found any other online games enjoyable.

I'll commend PSO2 where it's due and say that the combat, the character customization, the dedicated loot tables, and some of its characters are quite nice. And if coupled with cohesive episodes and an enjoyable rare system, it could have been something I truly enjoyed. Without those aspects though, it doesn't really stand over many of the other online games out there, and certainly isn't as enjoyable to me as PSO was.

To me, PSO2 is at best the Twilight Princess to my Majora's Mask... It improves in a lot of technical ways, but just feels flat, and misses out on what I loved the most. At worst, it's the RE4 to my RE... :-/

Edit: And a huge thank you to gigawuts. Handled that a lot better than I probably did, honestly.

Well, I was going to get into the side quests and wide variety of story elements too but any time anyone does that someone brings up how it's better now because in client orders you collect bird meat for Franka and it's just are you even for real right now

are you even for real

you can't be for real

if you're for real i don't even want to talk about this anymore

(But I'm in agreement there, I direly miss the number of stories going on simultaneously, and really miss how much life the guild counter gave to the entire game)

[condiments]

Nostalgia is pretty much the cancer killing fanbases.

So do those who stifle discussion that mirrors their own growing despair. To deny and censor such criticism from others, they deny and censor it in themselves. You are not some stalwart defender against the surging tide of dissent that just "breaks out" like a brush fire growing to engulf the countryside. This is a simple thread, where people are venting their frustrations in a healthy way amongst their peers.

I don't think anyone has been unreasonable in how they've voiced their complaints. Sure, some of these have been colored by expectations borne from previous entries in the series, but this is hardly unexpected. We have many threads professing the grandeur of this sequel, its good that people sometimes express what they don't like. Otherwise you'll have a lot of bitter people whose opinions aren't respected.

[jooozek]

So do those who stifle discussion that mirrors their own growing despair. To deny and censor such criticism from others, they deny and censor it in themselves. You are not some stalwart defender against the surging tide of dissent that just "breaks out" like a brush fire growing to engulf the countryside. This is a simple thread, where people are venting their frustrations in a healthy way amongst their peers.

I don't think anyone has been unreasonable in how they've voiced their complaints. Sure, some of these have been colored by expectations borne from previous entries in the series, but this is hardly unexpected. We have many threads professing the grandeur of this sequel, its good that people sometimes express what they don't like. Otherwise you'll have a lot of bitter people whose opinions aren't respected.
Your assumptions are too far fetched and without any real basis.

[condiments]

Your assumptions are too far fetched and without any real basis.

So statements like "Nostalgia is the cancer killing fanbases" are any less far fetched and realistically based than what I stated? Its true rose tinted glasses can harms ones ability to enjoy things, but using generalities to throw off others opinions is not any better. We use experience to base a lot of our judgements, so discounting something on the basis that it exists in 'past' is not something you should do.

If my statements came off a little strong, I apologize, its just I dislike discussion devolving into the banalities of "yur just blinded by nostalgia" to "no u".

[ThePendragon]

Sorry, no. PSO is a classic. I never found a game which did all the things it did, as well as it did, until PSO2. To this day it's still enjoyable, and I suspect the fan servers will be up for quite a while. Comparing PSO2 to PSO is natural, as was comparing PSU to PSO. It's just now, Sega finally came out with a game that's better.

PSO2>PSP2>PSU>PSO. PSO had terrible gameplay mechanics. The only thing that made it worth playing was initially the novelty factor of playing online and then after that wore off, hanging around with friends online. It's a classic for regions of nostalgia and being among the pioneers of console online RPG's.

[Zipzo]

PSO2>PSP2>PSU>PSO. PSO had terrible gameplay mechanics. The only thing that made it worth playing was initially the novelty factor of playing online and then after that wore off, hanging around with friends online. It's a classic for regions of nostalgia and being among the pioneers of console online RPG's.Among? PSO was the first online console multiplayer rpg.

[Aewyn]

All I can say is, I like PSO2 because of the game it is. I don't even factor PSO into it because I had my time with that game and I can't enjoy 'regular PSO' anymore. PSO2 gives me the feelings I had playing PSO without actually being the same exact game. Very few things are done the 'PSO way' and that's fine with me. I like the game how it is.

[Only $19.99]

So do those who stifle discussion that mirrors their own growing despair. To deny and censor such criticism from others, they deny and censor it in themselves. You are not some stalwart defender against the surging tide of dissent that just "breaks out" like a brush fire growing to engulf the countryside. This is a simple thread, where people are venting their frustrations in a healthy way amongst their peers.

I don't think anyone has been unreasonable in how they've voiced their complaints. Sure, some of these have been colored by expectations borne from previous entries in the series, but this is hardly unexpected. We have many threads professing the grandeur of this sequel, its good that people sometimes express what they don't like. Otherwise you'll have a lot of bitter people whose opinions aren't respected.

colorful choice of words man.

but i feel you.

[BIG OLAF]

Yeeeeeah... unless you just started gaming in the past decade, I don't know how you could agree that nostalgia ruins video games. I can share with you plenty of new ideas in video games that have just been god awful. Then again, admittedly, I am a little biased towards the older stuff since I'm an 80's kid, so that's when my trek in the world of gaming began.

While there may be some newer titles and ideas I enjoy, there are much more older titles and ideas which have yet to be topped in this day and age, even with our current technology. I like both generations for different reasons, but I'd hardly say that nostalgia is what is killing video games. In fact, I find it to be quite ironic that you complain about nostalgia, yet here you are playing PSO2.

You should remember that video games wouldn't be where they are today if it wasn't for that nostalgia you are treating like a cancer.

Being reminiscent and having fond memories =/= blind nostalgia-based fanboyism.

The latter is what I mean, at least, when I think of 'cancer that is killing gaming communities.'

Also, I played PSO for the first time in 2009, well after I was deep-seated in PSU. I hated PSO, so that irony you're feeling applies not to me.

[Cyclon]

We have many threads professing the grandeur of this sequel
Actually, no, we don't have that many. I see more that are about complaining than those. That is a concern.

So! What could I say. Uh, hardly anything really, since I'm not looking for the "PSO exp" when playing this game. I have played PSO so much since its beggining, seen so many versions, and made so many different characters, that anything new is rather welcomed. And I agree with those who said that PSO2 isn't a direct sequel to PSO. Really, these are different games.
On the other hand, it doesn't feel like a sequel to PSU either. Not because PSU was bad, or any ridiculous reason like that, just because PSO2 is unique. I can think of several games which share some features with it, but naming a single one that really resembles it, that I cannot do.

If I had to name a sequel to PSO, I'd probably say PSZero. That's merely my opinion, though. Don't kill me.

[TetsuyaHikari]

Being reminiscent and having fond memories =/= blind nostalgia-based fanboyism.

The latter is what I mean, at least, when I think of 'cancer that is killing gaming communities.'

Also, I played PSO for the first time in 2009, well after I was deep-seated in PSU. I hated PSO, so that irony you're feeling applies not to me.

Ah, that's the kind you're talking about. Blind fanboys. Yeah, those can be pretty annoying, especially when they're going, "OMG PSO IS THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD!!!1111ONE" and prematurely judging PSO2.

I took a chance on the irony thing since most of the people transitioning to PSO2 came from an enjoyable PSO background, myself included. I figured it was a fair assumption to think you were part of that huge demographic. Sorry about that.

[ScottyMango]

The only thing I really think PSO did better than PSO2 was the music. PSO2's music is nice, but PSO1's had a looot more 'heart'.

I was also more of a fan of the original's art style, but they are very similar and I still do like PSO2's a lot.

One thing I can't really decide on is how areas are locked. In the original, you could choose to go to the very last area, pretty quickly. You'd get your ass kicked, yeah, but it was fun to have that challenge as an option. Though, that said, I also kind of like that they're locked, because it adds a better sense of progression and pace to the game.

Gameplay wise? PSO2 blows PSO out of the water, hands down. Even when you're just grinding, it's still very fun to just play.

[MUDGRIP]

I like pso2 but the problem with a game that has a level cap is that it takes no time at all to get to the level cap and why would anybody in their right mind grind for items at this stage of the game? I mean seriously a year from now all these weps and armors we are using are going to be trash.

It took me 2 weeks to hit the level cap and clear all of the matterboard and I'm sure not going to grind for items in hard mode when in a year from now all this gear is going to be trash.

Yea PSO for the most part had all of the game content at release but at least when you found the good stuff you knew it was the good stuff... now when you find something good its kind of bitter sweet because you know in a year from now it will most likely be in the trash

[Zyrusticae]

[spoiler-box]I like pso2 but the problem with a game that has a level cap is that it takes no time at all to get to the level cap and why would anybody in their right mind grind for items at this stage of the game? I mean seriously a year from now all these weps and armors we are using are going to be trash.

It took me 2 weeks to hit the level cap and clear all of the matterboard and I'm sure not going to grind for items in hard mode when in a year from now all this gear is going to be trash.

Yea PSO for the most part had all of the game content at release but at least when you found the good stuff you knew it was the good stuff... now when you find something good its kind of bitter sweet because you know in a year from now it will most likely be in the trash[/spoiler-box]
Again with the focus on gear and progression.... I seriously do not understand this mindset.

First, what's wrong with playing the game for the sake of playing the game? Do people not do that anymore? Is it always the carrot in the stick that drives people to play? Seems like a weak motivation to me.

Secondly, if you have the best equipment for your level, you're better-equipped for getting the best gear as soon as the next update arrives. Kind of a frivolous goal, but any goal you set for yourself in a video game is going to be similarly frivolous because it's a video game. The unfortunate truth of progression-based mechanics is that the only input it requires is time... and you get no bragging rights if you just happen to have lots and lots of time.

(I will note here that some folks have the drive to hit the cap ASAP so they can farm meseta so they can purchase all the vanity items they want off the AH. I happen to be one of those folks.)

Speaking of time... if you do happen to have lots of it and spend most of it on one game, well, unfortunately for you, there is NO GAME ON PLANET EARTH that is going to keep you entertained for very long. I really wish more people would recognize this fact. It is not the game's fault if there isn't a single game on the planet that can keep you entertained for that long - you're just impossible to please (generally speaking).

But seriously? Whatever happened to playing games for the sake of playing them? I miss those days... :-(

[Zarod89]

Lol at people complaining about 'the grind' in a online rpg, IT'S A DAMN ONLINE RPG. What do you expect, it's not a single player rpg which you finish and never look back at.
If you don't like slaughtering the same monsters over and over what the hell are you doing in this game. This is pso, deal with it.
About that level cap quest, it shouldn't be a problem if you pick it up in the early 20's, it will be finished before you even reach lv 30.

My problem with the game right now is that they're releasing major gameplay elements over time, extra weapon types really?
All of these should be in the main release, not 3 months later. Rangers get to pick between a very underpowered assault rifle and a very overpowered launcher type.
Oh and little things like no section ID's, FOcast, cast no longer immume to poison and can't see traps. The races are no longer unique.

Before you had to pick a name to get the right kind of section ID to find the kind of specials you wanted.
Then you had to select the right class/race combination. If you wanted a hunter/caster hybrid you took Hunewearl for her awesome lv 20 deband and shifta.
If you wanted raw power you went for RAcast or HUcast. And for a clusterf*ck of all stats you picked HUmar and RAmar :p.

[gigawuts]

Again with the focus on gear and progression.... I seriously do not understand this mindset.

First, what's wrong with playing the game for the sake of playing the game? Do people not do that anymore? Is it always the carrot in the stick that drives people to play? Seems like a weak motivation to me.

Secondly, if you have the best equipment for your level, you're better-equipped for getting the best gear as soon as the next update arrives. Kind of a frivolous goal, but any goal you set for yourself in a video game is going to be similarly frivolous because it's a video game. The unfortunate truth of progression-based mechanics is that the only input it requires is time... and you get no bragging rights if you just happen to have lots and lots of time.

(I will note here that some folks have the drive to hit the cap ASAP so they can farm meseta so they can purchase all the vanity items they want off the AH. I happen to be one of those folks.)

Speaking of time... if you do happen to have lots of it and spend most of it on one game, well, unfortunately for you, there is NO GAME ON PLANET EARTH that is going to keep you entertained for very long. I really wish more people would recognize this fact. It is not the game's fault if there isn't a single game on the planet that can keep you entertained for that long - you're just impossible to please (generally speaking).

But seriously? Whatever happened to playing games for the sake of playing them? I miss those days... :-(

For a lot of people the constant chase of improved weapons is what's fun. For that, the original PSO certainly delivered. There was essentially always something better - and even if you had the absolute best of a certain weapon category, you didn't necessarily have the rares that offered different specials. An Asuka had the highest damage (of the common rares, not including sange/yasha), for sure, but it didn't have a freeze special like the Yamato. That's something I very much miss from the original. Now when you find a rare and don't like its stats you just give it new ones that you don't want. Rares are just their damage numbers and visual model, nothing else. There is nothing that sets a Vol Scale apart from an Ardillo but its damage and appearance. The Vol Scale could easily have an always-there affix of Burn IV, and NOT lose it when trying to do new affixes. I'd like that a lot.

[Hayde]

I think the best part about having constant updates to new gear and items...is exactly that, having new stuff. Perhaps it was fun in PSO DC/GC having the mindset that if you ground for a rare spawn (say, a rare rappy) in Ultimate--you would get the best "handgun"; bear in mind this is an example as I have not played the game in far too long to remember exact drops.

More to my point: the thing about the original PSO installments was that items were limited in the sense that without a hard drive, anything that could possibly exist was contained on the disk (evident by how you could 'hack' items that were not unlocked on the servers yet). While it was fun knowing that you reached the ultimate pinnacle once you found an item, it sucks knowing that was it--the only time you'd see new items was on a new PSO game.

In a manner speaking--you could see PSO2's progression of content patches similar to having PSO, then paying another $50 for PSOv2, and then having to pay $50 again to get PSO either on the XBox or GC (or Blue Burst).

[Flame]

PSO2>PSP2>PSU>PSO.


PSU>PSO.

annnnnd you're done.

[Xeno88]

annnnnd you're done.

Indeed he really is.

[Darki]

annnnnd you're done.

Not really. You know, with PSO I see it happens (in most of the cases) like in anime happens with Dragon Ball.

it's the most stupid series in the history of anime. Argument is retard, art is so crap I could draw it myself with a pencil sticking out of my ass, and many other flaws that I see when comparing it with the rest of the series. I can think of more than 10 series that nobody knows that in 5 minutes of the first episode put DB to shame (Karas, for example), yet you still have people considering it the best series in the planet.

The truth is, that it's just nostalgia and the fact that most people watched that series when they were small, easily pleased and with a not too developed judgement for quality. For me is like when you remember a series that you watched when you were 8 and then you download it and take a look and you end like "wtf did I do to my childhood".

Most people here found PSO in those conditions. I'm not saying that PSO is the worst, it had its good points (environment and some minimal gameplay system like rares being real rares), but other than that PSU was better in almost the rest of the features. I remember trying PSO after two years playing PSU and I couldn't pass the first area, I was so utterly bored of the crap combat system that I just decided to turn it off and leave the game forever in its case so I didn't ruin my memories of it further.

/prepares umbrella for shitstorm

[Agitated_AT]

Wow darki, that all sounded incredibly ignorant. While I agree with your statements about dbz(and i loved the series), I think comparing it to pso is a litte farfetched. No, PSO was amazing with full of amazing and original concepts(especially for it's time). A beautiful artstyle that was illustrates by the illustrator of panzer dragoon. It came around a time where diablo 2 was popular and to me PSO was the more enjoyable game. However it hasnt aged well as the controls and combat feel very stiff to nowadays standards.But becauze of these other factors, i could pick the whole of pso over psu with only that flaw in mind. The combat and visuals were nicer in psu, but the good things about pso still overweighed psu's. Around psoportable 2 things became alot more debatable to me but pso2 is defenitly decisive in every aspect. Pso2 is defenitly better than pso1 as a whole.

PSU may have been advanced in some departments, but it suffered from horrible concepts and technical flaws. Now im not going to debate opinions and which one is really better. But to say pso1 was a bad game is kind of an illogical cOnclusion. A game doesnt apeal to so many people because it was bad, something doesnt leave a great sense of nostgia when its bad. The game is still playable so i'm sure anyone here a psoW doesnt just have memories of old about the game. When something is bad its nostalgic memories get debunked quick when going back to them, like dbz or another example, ragnarok online to me. That game has a great amount of nostalgia to me with its lovely music, but i can safely say that its not a very good game(while then i thought it was amazing). However i think most can agree the movie terminator 2 is the best of the series when watching it even today.

What i find so ignorant about your statements is that you're not speaking for yourself. Try to see things more objectively even if you dont like PSO.


Edit: I also like to add that people need to fucking stop treating nostalgia is some common disease. Stop it!!

[NoiseHERO]

Not really. You know, with PSO I see it happens (in most of the cases) like in anime happens with Dragon Ball.

it's the most stupid series in the history of anime. Argument is retard, art is so crap I could draw it myself with a pencil sticking out of my ass, and many other flaws that I see when comparing it with the rest of the series. I can think of more than 10 series that nobody knows that in 5 minutes of the first episode put DB to shame (Karas, for example), yet you still have people considering it the best series in the planet.

The truth is, that it's just nostalgia and the fact that most people watched that series when they were small, easily pleased and with a not too developed judgement for quality. For me is like when you remember a series that you watched when you were 8 and then you download it and take a look and you end like "wtf did I do to my childhood".

Most people here found PSO in those conditions. I'm not saying that PSO is the worst, it had its good points (environment and some minimal gameplay system like rares being real rares), but other than that PSU was better in almost the rest of the features. I remember trying PSO after two years playing PSU and I couldn't pass the first area, I was so utterly bored of the crap combat system that I just decided to turn it off and leave the game forever in its case so I didn't ruin my memories of it further.

/prepares umbrella for shitstorm

Blegh I found karas kinda boring.

Also it mostly just seems like you went overboard shitting on dragon ball Z. Putting down both Dragon Ball Z AND PSO in the same post, you must be out of your mind. DB and DBZ were perfect for their time, and by the time in came to america Anime was still new to people. Hating on on something old like that is like...

An artist hating on caveman drawings...

But while I do dislike karass, I agree with you on the point that it would indeed be stupid to say it's better than a lot of newer animes in terms of quality, action or story telling. Even if during it's time DB or DBZ may have been some of the best. Then, during whatever modern anime's time at best it would've been considered the standard or mediocre... You're really only saying the old one is better because you either respect it more, or you're stuck in the past.

The old stuff might influence new things but I think they should be rated separately. This is why I like and enjoyed PSU way more than PSO. And this could definitely be applied to PSO-PSO2 and a lot of other series.

[ScottyMango]

Nostalgia aside, to suggest that PSU is superior to PSO is just damn silly. You don't even have to go into detail about it. It's simply silly.

[BIG OLAF]

Nostalgia aside, to suggest that PSU is superior to PSO is just damn silly. You don't even have to go into detail about it. It's simply silly.

I think PSU is superior to PSO in certain ways, and vice-versa. Anyone who says that everything about one game was better than everything in the other is a moron.

[Sebastian & PSO]

99% or more like it better.

You have got to be kidding yourself.

Coming from an original Phantasty star fan (not some all I know is 'PSU' fan) it's one of those games that slowly get's worse as you progress.

There's no real exploration to the game, character development feels so lengthy and not like an accomplishment to level up and all in all the game was developed to be one massive action rush with a bunch of generic enemies firing bullets that do the same thing, damage.

There's no enemies that scare the hell out of you like the original PSOep1&2 there's no sense of adventure, there's no epic music, the bosses are lame and so easy to defeat, if you join a party you might as well ditch the whole thing because they don't stop to send up a telepipe rather you have to go down and run to catch up to them and then miss out on an 'S RANK' because you didn't defeat enough enemies. The story line seems like crap (no sense of importance) and mags don't even change forms untill lv 30+ and their photon blasts are boring.

The only thing that keeps you playing (Which wont be for more then an hour because you find yourself utterly bored trying to complete the same god damn quest to FINALLY and MAYBE open a new level up) is reaching a new level. Which is short lived because 'Iceberg' doesn't open until the end of Hard Mode anyway.

For someone who was only a fan of PSU sure you'd say this game is better, because you don't know any better. Enough said.

[Flame]

art is so crap I could draw it myself with a pencil sticking out of my ass,

I'm sorry did you just call Toriyama's work crap? What is this . . .I don't even


I think PSU is superior to PSO in certain ways, and vice-versa. Anyone who says that everything about one game was better than everything in the other is a moron.

listen, we know you played PSU first and hated PSO. Noted. And yes, PSU did do some nice things. My room was a nice addition and it was an ambitious project to begin with. Remember the focus on a fully voice acted story mode? It was executed terribly but you could see that they really tried to work with the meager budget they had. That said it was a tremendously disappointing game that was critically panned and managed to single handedly clean out the PSOW forums like a fanbase laxative. The game was so bad everyone practically up and left. I understand that opinions are opinions and that if you liked it more than PSO, that's totally great. That said, PSO was superior in just about every way and I doubt anyone is going to accuse me of being a moron for saying that.


Nostalgia is pretty much the cancer killing fanbases.

And for this crazy cat, I'm not even sure WHAT to say. But as for your "challenge" to come up with PSO2's faults let me go on record saying that PSO2 has some of the worst level design I have ever encountered in a game. That is to say, there IS no design. Every field is randomly generated and it shows. These aren't the well crafted dungeons of PSO. The ones that were made to make you FEEL things when you played them. Where is the visual progression? The smart placement of traps and smashers? Hell even the laser gates and warps in PSO2 are used haphazardly. There are barely even any boxes to be found! When I played PSO, finding a 6 pack of boxes was super exciting! And to top it off the levels we have now feel small and cheap. There'll be 3 or 4 spawning points (dead ends that make everyone groan when you reach them) 1 or 2 big open rooms, and a couple of winding corridors. It's pretty pathetic. There's nothing more awesome than reaching that inactive warp point right? The cave mouth that doesn't work and doesn't take you anywhere? "Everyone turn around! Weeeeee!"

A randomly generated level will never be even close to the quality of a man made one. That, to me, is PSO2's achilles' heel right now. It's the reason people are bored. The reason they feel like quitting. Well, that and mandatory client orders.

[NoiseHERO]

You have got to be kidding yourself.

Coming from an original Phantasty star fan (not some all I know is 'PSU' fan) it's one of those games that slowly get's worse as you progress.

There's no real exploration to the game, character development feels so lengthy and not like an accomplishment to level up and all in all the game was developed to be one massive action rush with a bunch of generic enemies firing bullets that do the same thing, damage.

There's no enemies that scare the hell out of you like the original PSOep1&2 there's no sense of adventure, there's no epic music, the bosses are lame and so easy to defeat, if you join a party you might as well ditch the whole thing because they don't stop to send up a telepipe rather you have to go down and run to catch up to them and then miss out on an 'S RANK' because you didn't defeat enough enemies. The story line seems like crap (no sense of importance) and mags don't even change forms untill lv 30+ and their photon blasts are boring.

The only thing that keeps you playing (Which wont be for more then an hour because you find yourself utterly bored trying to complete the same god damn quest to FINALLY and MAYBE open a new level up) is reaching a new level. Which is short lived because 'Iceberg' doesn't open until the end of Hard Mode anyway.

For someone who was only a fan of PSU sure you'd say this game is better, because you don't know any better. Enough said.

Uhm...

r00tabaga HATES PSU, I think. e_e;;

I'm a fan of all series outside of the classics (sorry) but he's one of the people I had to defend PSU's better aspects to the most. e_e

[Sebastian & PSO]

Rock Eastwood I could care less about trying to understand what your reply was to me. Useless.

On the other hand I completely agree with everything Flame has mentioned. For anyone trying to argue that PSU was 'superior' to PSO well facts and figures speak otherwise and so do yourself a favour have a look at some reviews and sales figures for 'PSU' and we'll see how well that piece of shit pathetic excuse of game did.

As for PS02 the only thing that keeps players going (well me anyway) is the hope that SEGA might realise that the client orders, speed runs and random tiny maps are a massive inconvenience and we're all just painstakingly trying to get through to progress with the game and that they upgrade content with level designs players can actually take their time through completing. There's no real enjoyment to it, it actually draws away from socialising too because there's simply 'no time' to chat about anything. The game blows.

[Zipzo]

Rock Eastwood I could care less about trying to understand what your reply was to me. Useless.

On the other hand I completely agree with everything Flame has mentioned. For anyone trying to argue that PSU was 'superior' to PSO well facts and figures speak otherwise and so do yourself a favour have a look at some reviews and sales figures for 'PSU' and we'll see how well that piece of shit pathetic excuse of game did.

As for PS02 the only thing that keeps players going (well me anyway) is the hope that SEGA might realise that the client orders, speed runs and random tiny maps are a massive inconvenience and we're all just painstakingly trying to get through to progress with the game and that they upgrade content with level designs players can actually take their time through completing. There's no real enjoyment to it, it actually draws away from socialising too because there's simply 'no time' to chat about anything. The game blows.I sit in the lobby and chat all night, don't know about you. Sounds like a personal issue.

[NoiseHERO]

Rock Eastwood I could care less about trying to understand what your reply was to me. Useless.

On the other hand I completely agree with everything Flame has mentioned. For anyone trying to argue that PSU was 'superior' to PSO well facts and figures speak otherwise and so do yourself a favour have a look at some reviews and sales figures for 'PSU' and we'll see how well that piece of shit pathetic excuse of game did.

As for PS02 the only thing that keeps players going (well me anyway) is the hope that SEGA might realise that the client orders, speed runs and random tiny maps are a massive inconvenience and we're all just painstakingly trying to get through to progress with the game and that they upgrade content with level designs players can actually take their time through completing. There's no real enjoyment to it, it actually draws away from socialising too because there's simply 'no time' to chat about anything. The game blows.

You were just giving r00ta shit about being a PSU fan when he hates PSU? or am I mistaken?

Well if you don't care I don't.

Just that I can not care without sounding like someones sodomizing me.

[Zyrusticae]

As for PS02 the only thing that keeps players going (well me anyway) is the hope that SEGA might realise that the client orders, speed runs and random tiny maps are a massive inconvenience and we're all just painstakingly trying to get through to progress with the game and that they upgrade content with level designs players can actually take their time through completing. There's no real enjoyment to it, it actually draws away from socialising too because there's simply 'no time' to chat about anything. The game blows.
That's it. The gloves come off.

This is complete and utter horse shit.

Believe it or not, I actually enjoy most of my time in the game, especially when I'm playing with players who aren't afraid to chat. Even when I'm doing time-limited client orders we still find plenty of time to shoot the breeze, because, y'know, IT'S A GAME. The goals are not the end-all, be-all, we can afford to lose a few times, it makes no difference because we're just going to try again anyways until we do get it right. Your problems seem to stem almost entirely from personal issues, possibly a crippling case of OCD, even. Projecting your issues onto the rest of us does you no favors.

Also, I didn't see a single mention of ONE MORE!! in your post, which leads me to believe you have never done experienced a proper PSE Burst. What a shame. :(

[BIG OLAF]

listen, we know you played PSU first and hated PSO. Noted.

I didn't say anything about what game I played first in that last post.


I understand that opinions are opinions and that if you liked it more than PSO, that's totally great. That said, PSO was superior in just about every way

Hurr durr.


and I doubt anyone is going to accuse me of being a moron for saying that.

I will.

[Darki]

@Agitated_AT and Rock Eastwood:

I wasn't comparing PSO to DB directly, but the fact that to people these days PSO probably instills a feeling similar to what I'm saying. Maybe I should have used another example to make the idea more clear.

For example, take the Metroid series. I aknowledge that the old SNES games were good, argument-wise and action-wise. But I can't understand how people could possibly rant over the style that the series took when hitting the 3D consoles, because Metroid Prime is probably the best fucking FPS series I've ever played, and this coming from somebody who doesn't like FPS even one bit (I suppose that elements of that game that people would consider bad for a FPS is what made me like them, like the more story-driven gameplay). Then they had to make Metroid Other M, going back to the damn side-scrolling and platforming of the old SNES.

Seriously? I'd bet an arm that the game was a response to those nostalgia tards like here with PSO that are so blinded by their childhood memories about the old fucking 8-bit games that they wouldn't aknowledge a good game as such even if it was the fucking masterpiece of humanity.

In my case, I'm sorry, but I don't understand this. I personally liked PSO. if I wanted to play PSO again i'd just pick my GC disc back. I don't need PSU or PSO2 even to remind me slightly of the first game. I don't need Agitos, Soul Eaters, Holy Rays or Spread Needles to like the game. And I surely wouldn't consider a game bad because it has mechanics taken from PSU (not because they're bad mechanics, just because the fact that it comes from PSU) or good because it is PSO ep5.


I'm sorry did you just call Toriyama's work crap? What is this . . .I don't even

This illustrates what I was talking about. Half the series I've been reading this year put Akira Toriyama's drawing style to shame. And I tell you, i'm the first one who watched DBZ more than 7 times during my childhood and i've liked the series a lot for all this time. But when I annalyze why I like it, a great percentage of it comes from "because I enjoyed it when I was a kid".


I will.

+1

[NoiseHERO]

@Agitated_AT and Rock Eastwood:

I wasn't comparing PSO to DB directly, but the fact that to people these days PSO probably instills a feeling similar to what I'm saying. Maybe I should have used another example to make the idea more clear.

For example, take the Metroid series. I aknowledge that the old SNES games were good, argument-wise and action-wise. But I can't understand how people could possibly rant over the style that the series took when hitting the 3D consoles, because Metroid Prime is probably the best fucking FPS series I've ever played, and this coming from somebody who doesn't like FPS even one bit (I suppose that elements of that game that people would consider bad for a FPS is what made me like them, like the more story-driven gameplay). Then they had to make Metroid Other M, going back to the damn side-scrolling and platforming of the old SNES.

Seriously? I'd bet an arm that the game was a response to those nostalgia tards like here with PSO that are so blinded by their childhood memories about the old fucking 8-bit games that they wouldn't aknowledge a good game as such even if it was the fucking masterpiece of humanity.

In my case, I'm sorry, but I don't understand this. I personally liked PSO. if I wanted to play PSO again i'd just pick my GC disc back. I don't need PSU or PSO2 even to remind me slightly of the first game. I don't need Agitos, Soul Eaters, Holy Rays or Spread Needles to like the game. And I surely wouldn't consider a game bad because it has mechanics taken from PSU (not because they're bad mechanics, just because the fact that it comes from PSU) or good because it is PSO ep5.



This illustrates what I was talking about. Half the series I've been reading this year put Akira Toriyama's drawing style to shame. And I tell you, i'm the first one who watched DBZ more than 7 times during my childhood and i've liked the series a lot for all this time. But when I annalyze why I like it, a great percentage of it comes from "because I enjoyed it while I was young".

No I was agreeing with you, Just that I was mostly defending DBZ.

[watashiwa]

Flame's one of those people who can't seem to understand the idea that two people can have a difference of opinion and they can both be right about it.

My opinion on Flame saying that PSO was superior to PSU in just about every way is that Flame is ignorant.

As someone else said, PSO did some things better than PSU and vice versa.

PSU had a lot going for it. The actual combat mechanics and customization of your character, just for starters. PSO had the whole "eerie atmosphere" thing going for it and, to me, that's about it.

Going back to play PSO now feels like torture. Everything feels so... on a grid, more so than usual, and so rigid... far too tight and not fluid enough.

PSO was a great "social" game. After you're done with the story, all you can do is repeat the same online quests or chat in the lobbies with your friends. Yeah, it's similar to PSU in that regard, but... At least PSU's combat didn't put me to sleep.

With PSO, especially in areas like the Caves, for me, I really had to be talking to someone at the same time or multitasking with my computer or something while I play, otherwise I won't make it through without needing to take a nap. It's just far too boring.

Anyway, as you can see from this post, I'm definitely in the camp that, overall, PSU > PSO, even though PSO was a good game for it's time, better than PSU it ain't.

[Sebastian & PSO]

This is complete and utter horse shit.(

I don't know where you're standing but I'm certainly not on a farm. Sorry.


Believe it or not, I actually enjoy most of my time in the game,

There's the word. 'Most'


especially when I'm playing with players who aren't afraid to chat.

Ohh believe me I chat. It's other players who are short of time. Getting a 'GC or Congrats or Follow me' must be a great conversation for you.


Even when I'm doing time-limited client orders we still find plenty of time to shoot the breeze

But that's exactly it, 'limited time orders' is my gripe. You obviously just accept them but deep down know their an inconvenience and should not be mandatory to progress further in the game.


because, y'know, IT'S A GAME.

Did you know that apples are fruit?


The goals are not the end-all, be-all

Ahhm, yes they actually are. Unless you complete them there's no progression with the game. So in other words you can end it right there.


we can afford to lose a few times, it makes no difference because we're just going to try again anyways until we do get it right.

Who's we? Don't you mean 'you'? I can't afford to spend hours at a time trying to do the same quest over and over it blows my mind with boredom.


Your problems seem to stem almost entirely from personal issues

Well yes that's usually how a problem starts and yes this thread did specifically ask to state those problems.


possibly a crippling case of OCD, even.

Ok see now you're just a psychologist that list on a farm wearing gloves.


Also, I didn't see a single mention of ONE MORE!! in your post, which leads me to believe you have never done experienced a proper PSE Burst. What a shame. :(

I have no idea as to what you're referring too with 'One More' but yes I have experienced PSE Burst multiple times, did I miss out on something fun? Is that meant to amaze me and put all my gripes aside. Hmm ok doctor.

[BIG OLAF]

I don't know where you're standing but I'm certainly not on a farm. Sorry.


Did you know that apples are fruit?

Looks like we got ourselves a comedian here.

[NoiseHERO]

At least PSU's combat didn't put me to sleep.

I dunno about that...

I like PSU more... but the combat from both games I'd say was mediocre... there was TOO MANY times that I truly did fall asleep playing PSU... D:

Then waking up and I was either dead or the mission was over... >_> <_<;;;

PSO2 however... my god I don't know how many hours of my life spent on this game within the fastest past month and a half I've ever had. But the combat never EVER gets boring O_O

[Zyrusticae]

Gawd, I HATE that line-by-line quoting style. It looks obnoxious, often makes things appear out-of-context, and takes up extraneous amounts of screen space. Not doing that.

Especially because...


Who's we? Don't you mean 'you'? I can't afford to spend hours at a time trying to do the same quest over and over it blows my mind with boredom.

This. This right here. First of all, there has never been a point in time where I spent "hours" doing the same quest repeatedly. Secondly, it's abundantly clear that you just don't like the game's core gameplay all that much, or none of these things would even be an issue for you.

And that just raises the question: If you don't like the core, minute-to-minute gameplay, why bother? It doesn't even matter HOW the game is structured, because you wouldn't enjoy it either way.

Also,


Ahhm, yes they actually are. Unless you complete them there's no progression with the game. So in other words you can end it right there.
Seriously, what the fuck is this shit? What the fuck, man? Again with the "PROGRESSION IS EVERYTHING" crap. I'm sick of it. I'm getting out of here before I blow a gasket, people with this mindset piss me right the fuck off!

[Flame]

I didn't say anything about what game I played first in that last post.


I played PSO for the first time in 2009, well after I was deep-seated in PSU.

Yeah, but you mentioned it a page earlier. Don't embarrass yourself.






This illustrates what I was talking about. Half the series I've been reading this year put Akira Toriyama's drawing style to shame.

I'm not going to get into an argument about the merits of AT's work but suffice to say it's painful to see you shrug it off so easily. Since you mentioned reading I assume you are in fact talking about dragonball as a manga, not exclusively the show. Because the show is a different beast.


Flame's one of those people who can't seem to understand the idea that two people can have a difference of opinion and they can both be right about it.

My opinion on Flame saying that PSO was superior to PSU in just about every way is that Flame is ignorant.



challenge accepted Watashiwa. How are we even supposed to debate the quality of art/entertainment then? As evidence for PSO's superiority I suppose I could cite reviews but I'm sure you would disregard them. I could speak at length about general sentiment or popular opinion but you could easily find the fallacies with those as well. We're more or less at a stalemate where all we can say with certainty that both games had good points and bad points without being able to say for sure which is better. I suppose if anything I could bring up that PSU had crippling frame rate problems which is an objective problem.

[watashiwa]

challenge accepted Watashiwa. How are we even supposed to debate the quality of art/entertainment then? As evidence for PSO's superiority I suppose I could cite reviews but I'm sure you would disregard them. I could speak at length about general sentiment or popular opinion but you could easily find the fallacies with those as well. We're more or less at a stalemate where all we can say with certainty that both games had good points and bad points without being able to say for sure which is better. I suppose if anything I could bring up that PSU had crippling frame rate problems which is an objective problem.

I wouldn't disregard them. I just wouldn't agree with them. The fact that I, and other people, think PSU is better than PSO is just our opinion. Just because there's some reviews on the Internet that say "Hey, PSO is a better game because of this" doesn't automatically make anybody else's view of PSU as being the better game invalid. It just doesn't.

Also, yeah, I've seen those PSU frame rate problems on both PS2, 360 and some weaker PCs. I was lucky enough to have a powerful enough computer where that didn't happen, but even if it did... It didn't make me hate the game or anything like that. The combat was still better as was the overall experience of playing it, in my opinion.

[Sebastian & PSO]

PSO2 has good combat from OUR characters perspective, from the enemies and boss perspective there is no real tactics. Sure you can aim for the head of a boss or body part to break but they don't have a fun pattern that you need to get used to before you take it down. I haven't once died (or had the whole party die) while versing a boss and we had to start again. That's what I want the most.

And that goes for enemies too, back in the PSO days they used to be smart, have stealth, shoot poison, shoot megid, sneak up on you, confuse you, paralyze you, disarm your weapons, laser beam you to death! None of that stuff happens on PSO2 so far.

[Flame]

Also, yeah, I've seen those PSU frame rate problems on both PS2, 360 and some weaker PCs. I was lucky enough to have a powerful enough computer where that didn't happen, but even if it did... It didn't make me hate the game or anything like that. The combat was still better as was the overall experience of playing it, in my opinion.

Brother if you had bought the game on launch day for ps2 you would be singing a different tune now. Dreams were shattered.

[watashiwa]

And that goes for enemies too, back in the PSO days they used to be smart, have stealth, shoot poison, shoot megid, sneak up on you, confuse you, paralyze you, disarm your weapons, laser beam you to death! None of that stuff happens on PSO2 so far.

C'mon now. None of the enemies in PSO were even close to "smart". They ALL had patterns that repeated themselves until infinity.

None of them enemies really snuck up on you either. You could see the cloaked Sinow if you looked carefully enough. I even think the dots were still on the mini map which showed his location, even while cloaked.

Shooting poison or a one-shot killing Megid didn't really increase the challenge either.

PSO would artificially increase the difficulty in Ultimate by removing the invincibility window from being hit by an attack without falling online. This enabled the cheapness of laser beam attacks to repeatedly hit you and also Dark Falz' second form's ice attack wiping out the entire party due to the multiple hits, but it wasn't challenging. I'd say more of an annoyance.

If you truly think that type of combat makes a good game, pray for it when PSO2 reveals it's later difficulty levels. Otherwise, you might want to stick to PSO. I certainly don't wish for that again.

[jooozek]

And for this crazy cat, I'm not even sure WHAT to say. But as for your "challenge" to come up with PSO2's faults let me go on record saying that PSO2 has some of the worst level design I have ever encountered in a game. That is to say, there IS no design. Every field is randomly generated and it shows. These aren't the well crafted dungeons of PSO. The ones that were made to make you FEEL things when you played them. Where is the visual progression? The smart placement of traps and smashers? Hell even the laser gates and warps in PSO2 are used haphazardly. There are barely even any boxes to be found! When I played PSO, finding a 6 pack of boxes was super exciting! And to top it off the levels we have now feel small and cheap. There'll be 3 or 4 spawning points (dead ends that make everyone groan when you reach them) 1 or 2 big open rooms, and a couple of winding corridors. It's pretty pathetic. There's nothing more awesome than reaching that inactive warp point right? The cave mouth that doesn't work and doesn't take you anywhere? "Everyone turn around! Weeeeee!"

"oh no I can't memorise the whole map, instead I'm forced to explore!"
"oh no I can't farm boxes anymore!"
"oh no I can't spam that quest for rare rappies chances anymore!"

You know what was the worst thing about PSO level design? Party buttons.


A randomly generated level will never be even close to the quality of a man made one. That, to me, is PSO2's achilles' heel right now. It's the reason people are bored. The reason they feel like quitting. Well, that and mandatory client orders.

That's strawman, seriously. Do you honestly believe someone who feels like quitting is even remotely bothered by it? If they do, they are one in the thousand. And seriously, mandatory client orders bother you? Does everything that requires anything that resembles effort bothers you? You should ask yourself why are you even playing the game if a side task that in the end finishes itself bothers you. The S-Rank times are also pretty mild once you get used to the idea of having to get S-Rank in certain time, even solo.

[Sebastian & PSO]

Gawd, I HATE that line-by-line quoting style.
Funny how it's ok for you to 'complain' and use the word 'hate' but yet flame and I are not allowed to express our opinions with PSO2.

If you hate it then like you mention below why even bother with this website?


Often makes things appear out-of-context.

Maybe you're just embarrassed by what you've said.



It doesn't even matter HOW the game is structured, because you wouldn't enjoy it either way.

I would enjoy every last bit of it if it was structured a different way. That's my whole point. Again you were trying to be some sort of psychologist here.



Seriously, what the fuck is this shit? What the fuck, man?

You are either crazy or have anger issues or an obsession with shit.


Again with the "PROGRESSION IS EVERYTHING" crap. I'm sick of it.

So you would be content on playing the game with no progression? Would that even make sense?


I'm getting out of here before I blow a gasket, people with this mindset piss me right the fuck off!

Again I think you are crazy and need help. Hopefully you're out of here to go to the doctors and seek medical advice.

[Zyrusticae]

Funny how it's ok for you to 'complain' and use the word 'hate' but yet flame and I are not allowed to express our opinions with PSO2.

If you hate it then like you mention below why even bother with this website?
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

Also, line-by-line quoting style still obnoxious. Still not bothering.

[Sebastian & PSO]

Does everything that requires anything that resembles effort bothers you? .

Flame and I are just expressing our feelings towards this game which let us down majorly in comparison to PSO. You guys can love the game and be 'all for it' but you're never going to change our minds. We were looking for a better and improved version of PSO1&2 and instead we got a PSO&PSU mix type of gaming system that's all about an action packed rush rather than an adventure.

And you know what, when this game is released to American shores we'll see the reviews speak for themselves.

[Darki]

I'm not going to get into an argument about the merits of AT's work but suffice to say it's painful to see you shrug it off so easily. Since you mentioned reading I assume you are in fact talking about dragonball as a manga, not exclusively the show. Because the show is a different beast.

You keep showing your astonishment as my disdain for Akira Toriyama's art but you don't seem to point me out in what elements of his work i'm mistaken, at least in your opinion.

Akira Toriyama is famous mangaka that has my respect for his work, but I have many other series in my top 10, and I'd say he doesn't make it to the top 50 even. Design-wise, his style is very simple and I can think of my head mangakas that draw much better than him. Takeshi Obata, Masakazu Katsura... And argument-wise I'm sorry but DB's argument is dumb as fuck. I can't even think of many series with worse arguments than DB.

If I compared DB to a series like, I don't know, Naruto, you'd put your hands on your head thinking I'm crazy, but the truth is that series like that are the new DB. You won't have to wait much till there are kids that think they're the best series in the universe and comparing them to masterpieces that objectively are lightyears away from them.

As I said, I liked the series. But I liked it when I was 8. I also liked the Power Rangers, used to play in school breaks that I was the blue Ranger all the time and that I had a huge ass triceratops robot with my friends. But I downloaded the film a couple months ago out of nostalgia and almost puked with the first 10 minutes of it. Memories are a wonderful thing, because they not only keep the information of something we lived long ago, they also keep the feelings we had towards it at that time. Sadly, there's much people here who gets blinded by them and can't consider objectively about this game.

[Sebastian & PSO]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png
.

I'm assuming that the difference between you and I would be is that I actually have someone to call me to bed. I don't think someone as angry and crazy as you would have anyone who would want to sleep in the same bed as someone who's about to 'blow their gasket' lol. Unless it's for other reasons.

[Flame]

"oh no I can't memorise the whole map, instead I'm forced to explore!"


there's nothing to explore. There are no rewards at deadends so why bother. Plus, it's not really "exploring" if it's the same 3 or 4 rooms copy pasted over and over is it? I think you have a pretty good idea of what's waiting for you.



"oh no I can't farm boxes anymore!"


I don't even know what farming boxes means. It would be nice if they felt a bit more worth getting in PSO2 though.



"oh no I can't spam that quest for rare rappies chances anymore!"


I don't know what this is in response to. PSO as a whole? I guarantee there will be quest spamming in PSO2 as well. I mean it's practically mandatory for some client orders.



You know what was the worst thing about PSO level design? Party buttons.



because you had to slow down and work together? At least this encouraged team work other than hacking at the same boss together.


You keep showing your astonishment as my disdain for Akira Toriyama's art but you don't seem to point me out in what elements of his work i'm mistaken, at least in your opinion.



because it would derail the thread with essay length debates about manga.

[Agitated_AT]

@Darki

Alright :P I guess in that sense I wholeheartly agree with you. I also wanna say that metroid prime 1 is one of the best games ever made... if not THE best


PSO2 has good combat from OUR characters perspective, from the enemies and boss perspective there is no real tactics. Sure you can aim for the head of a boss or body part to break but they don't have a fun pattern that you need to get used to before you take it down. I haven't once died (or had the whole party die) while versing a boss and we had to start again. That's what I want the most.

And that goes for enemies too, back in the PSO days they used to be smart, have stealth, shoot poison, shoot megid, sneak up on you, confuse you, paralyze you, disarm your weapons, laser beam you to death! None of that stuff happens on PSO2 so far.
I kind of suspect that you haven't unlocked tundra and time attack mode yet? Are you level 30? The game does get challenging eventually, it does get a pso1 mode eventually (time attack mode) and considering this game will have more content than pso1 in the long run, I think you can expect alot more challenge than tundra eventually.

I can relate to alot of the complaints, but i've been able to accept alot of things about pso2 as well. Times have changed. You wanna cater to a big audience. You want children around the 6/7 be able to play the game too, and the non experienced players too. Now imagining them playing pso1, I know for a fact they would quit from forest as the game starts out quite difficult. Pso2 has a great "learning curve" and makes it accesable for a long period.

I do really think that PSO should have kept it's own identity instead of mimicking esteblished MMO mechanics, like the emphasis on client orders mirroring quests from most MMO's. The free roam aspect instead of killing and teamworking to progress. All these things are kind of lame, but once I got to time attack, alot of my complaints were gone.

The time attack mode is unlocked way too late perhaps

[DreXxiN]

It's fun. It doesn't have the nostalgic value of PSO but it still invokes nostalgic emotions. PSO1 had some amazing aspects. PSO2 also has some amazing aspects. This is my opinion and I also respect yours!

That wasn't so hard, was it? Apparently it's way beyond a lot of people here, though.

[gigawuts]

I really love this logic that PSO was bad because it didn't hold up to the test of a decade's time.

ITT: Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time worst game in history, didn't stand up to test of time, offers no assault rifle with 1 second reload

[Zyrusticae]

It's fun. It doesn't have the nostalgic value of PSO but it still invokes nostalgic emotions. PSO1 had some amazing aspects. PSO2 also has some amazing aspects. This is my opinion and I also respect yours!

That wasn't so hard, was it? Apparently it's way beyond a lot of people here, though.
YES. IT'S HARD. IT'S INCREDIBLY FUCKING HARD WHEN PEOPLE SPOUT THE SHITTEST NONSENSICAL ASSHAT REASONS FOR NOT LIKING SOMETHING, GODDAMMIT!

I AM ALSO IN CAPS LOCK CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL MODE NOW. ALSO ANGER COMES ACROSS BETTER IN ALL CAPS. ALL CAPS FTW, JOIN THE ALL CAPS CLUB TODAY!

MAY THE INTERNETS RUN RED WITH RAGE! :argh:

[NoiseHERO]

YES. IT'S HARD. IT'S INCREDIBLY FUCKING HARD WHEN PEOPLE SPOUT THE SHITTEST NONSENSICAL ASSHAT REASONS FOR NOT LIKING SOMETHING, GODDAMMIT!

I AM ALSO IN CAPS LOCK CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL MODE NOW. ALSO ANGER COMES ACROSS BETTER IN ALL CAPS. ALL CAPS FTW, JOIN THE ALL CAPS CLUB TODAY!

MAY THE INTERNETS RUN RED WITH RAGE! :argh:

Hey people will confuse you with me holding shift to type to be sarcastic and make fun of them by secretly implying I'm typing at their knowledge level. D:

[Dhylec]

Ok after 180+ posts, I think whoever has something to say already did. Since the topic is derailed to who's right & wrong, it's time to get out & take a break.