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IndigoNovember
Jul 15, 2012, 10:31 PM
I was wondering how people felt about certain technics. I find Foie useless when compared to Rafoie (similar damage but Rafoie teleports the explosion onto the enemy therefore you never miss), Razonde when compared to Gizonde (have to use cards to achieve a similar amount of range as Gizonde), and Gibarta when compared to Rabarta (it doesn't seem to go as far as Rabarta). How does everybody else feel?

Sp-24
Jul 16, 2012, 01:00 AM
I haven't found much use for Foie, but its grazing damage can come in handy at times, thanks to Aiming Mode. For example, I use it a lot against Vol Dragon.

Yes, I said that. I find fireball to be the most effective weapon against a fire-breathing dragon. Since I couldn't lock on his horn after breaking it (duh), I had to manually aim at the other horn in hopes of breaking that one, too. Since none of the ice spells are helpful, and Rafoie, Grants and Zonde are so easy to miss with, Foie seemed to be the optimal choice.

As for Gibarta vs. Rabarta, I think Gibarta is more powerful, but have yet to see if it's actually true. Rabarta does have a much higher Freeze chance that never seems to work against bosses, though.

Geistritter
Jul 16, 2012, 01:08 AM
I haven't found much use for Foie, but its grazing damage can come in handy at times, thanks to Aiming Mode. For example, I use it a lot against Vol Dragon.

Yes, I said that. I find fireball to be the most effective weapon against a fire-breathing dragon.

I have a friend who plays Force that went out of their way to buy an ice tree, and he still thinks it's more useful to go with his fire tree in the caves, so there you go.

On the subject of Foie itself, though, there's not a lot of reason to use it, but that's partly because Rafoie is inexplicably cheaper than either of its counterparts, only costing 20 PP. It comes off as a design mistake, but it makes the fire tree even more unbalanced than it already is.

moeri
Jul 16, 2012, 01:14 AM
I haven't found much use for Foie, but its grazing damage can come in handy at times, thanks to Aiming Mode. For example, I use it a lot against Vol Dragon.

Yes, I said that. I find fireball to be the most effective weapon against a fire-breathing dragon. Since I couldn't lock on his horn after breaking it (duh), I had to manually aim at the other horn in hopes of breaking that one, too. Since none of the ice spells are helpful, and Rafoie, Grants and Zonde are so easy to miss with, Foie seemed to be the optimal choice.

As for Gibarta vs. Rabarta, I think Gibarta is more powerful, but have yet to see if it's actually true. Rabarta does have a much higher Freeze chance that never seems to work against bosses, though.

run up to the dragon and jump when right beside him, there will be a window where you can lock on to the horn on top

Geistritter
Jul 16, 2012, 01:17 AM
The auto-targeting is freaking terrible in this game, on that note. I hope they fix it so it locks onto whatever applicable point you're facing, rather than the guy in the back of the room at the very corner of your field of vision.

Ana-Chan
Jul 16, 2012, 02:24 AM
To be honest, I use foie a fair bit. I tend to find it a lot more useful than rafoie because of the graze damage. Whether you use third person view or lock on, I can normally deal more damage with foie.
The thing with rafoie is that for it to be effective, the targets have to be pretty close together, but for foie, all you have to do is place them in the trajectory of foie. Of course, I tend to use gifoie the most, but oh well.

Sp-24
Jul 16, 2012, 02:36 AM
run up to the dragon and jump when right beside him, there will be a window where you can lock on to the horn on top

Thanks for the tip, I'll have to try it. That dragon seems to have so many targets on it that I couldn't Tab on that horn no matter what.

drizzle
Jul 16, 2012, 02:53 AM
Foie is weird. I feel we must be missing something because Rafoie is just better in every way.
Well, I found 1 use for Foie - it can hit Rockbear in the face without using TPS mode, and Rafoie can't (use TPS mode and it's still better, though).

Grants also seems similarly useless at the moment. It's like Rafoie without the splash damage?
Gigrants is hax though.

Wolfgrey666
Jul 16, 2012, 03:25 AM
I haven't found much use for Foie, but its grazing damage can come in handy at times, thanks to Aiming Mode. For example, I use it a lot against Vol Dragon.

Yes, I said that. I find fireball to be the most effective weapon against a fire-breathing dragon. Since I couldn't lock on his horn after breaking it (duh), I had to manually aim at the other horn in hopes of breaking that one, too. Since none of the ice spells are helpful, and Rafoie, Grants and Zonde are so easy to miss with, Foie seemed to be the optimal choice.

As for Gibarta vs. Rabarta, I think Gibarta is more powerful, but have yet to see if it's actually true. Rabarta does have a much higher Freeze chance that never seems to work against bosses, though.

You were fine til your last sentence XD

I spam rabarta like a mad man on Vol Dragon and the Worm.I freeze them quite often too,

Ana-Chan
Jul 16, 2012, 04:32 AM
Foie is weird. I feel we must be missing something because Rafoie is just better in every way.

Including when several enemies are lined up in a row? Foie, when used right, can hit every single one, rafoie can't because it is a focused explosion in the target area.


Grants also seems similarly useless at the moment. It's like Rafoie without the splash damage?

Lock onto the weakpoint and then let grants rip, on quite a lot of darker it does more damage than gigrants.

Each tech has it's own usage, so not one is usless. But I guess most of this is down to preferences.

Sp-24
Jul 16, 2012, 04:36 AM
Foie is weird. I feel we must be missing something because Rafoie is just better in every way.
Well, I found 1 use for Foie - it can hit Rockbear in the face without using TPS mode, and Rafoie can't (use TPS mode and it's still better, though).

You seem to have said it already, but I'll say it anyway: Rafoie very much can hit Rockbear in the face in Aiming Mode, and due to how slow Rockbear is, it may be even better than Foie at that.

Well, as it has been said before, Foie's niche seems to be its grazing damage. If you aim near your target instead of right at it, the fireball will deal its full damage, but will keep going forward. Not too useful against bosses, but I'll try it during the next Cross Burst to see if it does better than Rafoie.


You were fine til your last sentence XD

I spam rabarta like a mad man on Vol Dragon and the Worm.I freeze them quite often too,

Well, I've been trying to use Rabarta on Vol Dragon with both Cards and Rod, but still couldn't freeze it any more reliably than with Gibarta. I get a feeling that it keeps hitting its wings, arms, horns, and basically everything except for the legs, which it should. with 17% vs. 30% Freeze chance, you'd think the difference would have been noticeable, especially since Gibarta isn't that easy to aim from a Talis, either.

drizzle
Jul 16, 2012, 05:00 AM
Lock onto the weakpoint and then let grants rip, on quite a lot of darker it does more damage than gigrants.

Rafoie does about the same damage on D-arkers (they're weak to fire as well as light) AND also damages everything nearby, plus it can set them on fire for even more damage just in case they survive longer than 3 seconds.
I just don't see why you would be using Grants, ever. The Panic condition isn't really useful as far as I can tell.

JNMeiun
Jul 16, 2012, 08:08 AM
Rafoie does about the same damage on D-arkers (they're weak to fire as well as light) AND also damages everything nearby, plus it can set them on fire for even more damage just in case they survive longer than 3 seconds.
I just don't see why you would be using Grants, ever. The Panic condition isn't really useful as far as I can tell.

grantz has 38 more base than rank 10 rafoie if you dont sink tons of points into fire/lighting boosting talents instead of charge boosting or ja boosting. its better for single target dps on things that you want to kill quickly and not leave to burning (the two flying darkers) or single targets who are weak to light or have defensive abilities (the shield darkers, isolated hunter dinans and ragne). Ragne doesnt burn and you cant hit more than one point on vol dragon or ragne with rafoie.

likewise gigrantz has significantly higher base than anything else (almost 80 on gifoie 10, almost 40 on gibarta 10 with around rabarta aoe diameter) and hits in an large aoe.

both are also SIGNIFICANTLY better until you have rank 10 in something. even then you need to sink many points into elemental tech tallents (read as 10+) to get enough damage to close the gap let alone outshine it (they still get charge bonus and ja bonus).

Many of the techs seem very conditional. Foie acts like barta/pierces if you don't land direct hits, sometimes its better than rafoie. rabarta at 10 has 13% more freeze chance per hit but 62 less base damage than gibarta and is easier to direct. zonde and grantz can get around the shields of dinians and gawonda while hitting their weakness. likewise shock, burning and panic also have unique effects in many enemies (gawonda aren't just ministunned by shock they fall over each shock proc, breeada lose some of their attacks when under panic etc).

interesting to note the zonde debuff has a very high chance to proc shock, can splash and proc shock in a small aoe around the debuffed target, has more base damage than any other technique in the game right now even at rank 6 and benefits from bolt pp reduction.

Lostbob117
Jul 16, 2012, 08:40 AM
You spelled technique wrong. Unless there's to ways... o.o

drizzle
Jul 16, 2012, 08:43 AM
grantz has 38 more base than rank 10 rafoie if you dont sink tons of points into fire/lighting boosting talents instead of charge boosting or ja boosting. its better for single target dps on things that you want to kill quickly and not leave to burning (the two flying darkers) or single targets who are weak to light or have defensive abilities (the shield darkers, isolated hunter dinans and ragne). Ragne doesnt burn and you cant hit more than one point on vol dragon or ragne with rafoie.

likewise gigrantz has significantly higher base than anything else (almost 80 on gifoie 10, almost 40 on gibarta 10 with around rabarta aoe diameter) and hits in an large aoe.

both are also SIGNIFICANTLY better until you have rank 10 in something. even then you need to sink many points into elemental tech tallents (read as 10+) to get enough damage to close the gap let alone outshine it (they still get charge bonus and ja bonus).

Many of the techs seem very conditional. Foie acts like barta/pierces if you don't land direct hits, sometimes its better than rafoie. rabarta at 10 has 13% more freeze chance per hit but 62 less base damage than gibarta and is easier to direct. zonde and grantz can get around the shields of dinians and gawonda while hitting their weakness. likewise shock, burning and panic also have unique effects in many enemies (gawonda aren't just ministunned by shock they fall over each shock proc, breeada lose some of their attacks when under panic etc).

If you're hitting a single target, Zonde with Bolt PP Save 10 skill is more PP efficient than either Rafoie or Grants and may actually end up being better DPS than the others because of this. I have not tested this, though, I currently do not have a skill tree with both PP revival and Bolt PP save. Testing is expensive :D

I suspect the Bolt skill tree is far more effective than most people are aware of right now. It has the most PP efficient single-target tech as well as the largest area damage tech (which, with PP save 10, is also the cheapest). I find that with Bolt techs, I often need fewer casts to wipe a spawn than with Fire even though I do less damage per hit, simply because the AoE is bigger and it hits more enemies.
The JA Advance skill is also very good return on investment per point.

I'm a bit reluctant to experiment more with new tree combinations. The Force class will likely be obsolete in a few months when we get new classes, or the skill trees will be expanded with more and better skills, and who knows on which side of the tree they'll end up? I'm not that rich :p

sugarFO
Jul 16, 2012, 08:47 AM
You spelled technique wrong. Unless there's to ways... o.o

Technic is how PSU spelled them. And since the game is in Japanese and Katakana pronunciations are funky, well...

drizzle
Jul 16, 2012, 09:05 AM
The correct spelling is "TECHNIC", in all caps :D

Reyva
Jul 16, 2012, 10:55 AM
Eh, Level 40 Newman force here with all techs at lvl 10 (except shifta which is lvl9 and that one lightning skill which is lvl 5 and lastly gigrants/grants which is lvl 3/1),

Find everything but Rafoie, Foie, Gifoie useless. Gigrants and grants used to be the shiznite back my early levels as a force since I didn't have much SP to fill out my skill path.

My skill build is this (http://ryuhiroshi.ry.funpic.de/pso2/force.html?01FO!IOI2GBIk2XIe8)

My first build in the game actually has Flame Mastery at 5 and tech charge advance 2 at 9. Obviously, when next level cap come, I'll just max TCA2 and on the other, TCA2, then take a slightly alternate path.

I later then purchased one more additional skill tree going down a alternate path for only the lightning tech path. I find the ice path useless for now. I mean if Photon Flare lasted as long as Fury/Guard Stance then I wouldn't call it useless.

From what I saw, even in the caves, Rafoie, Gifoie, Foie just dominated all. On my lightning build, it took a whole lot longer to clear the area vs my fire path even in the desert area with the bots and one of the main reasons is just due to Flame Tech S Charge.

Don't like playing support nor do I care about freezing the dragon boss since I hate going to the caves in the first place.

DPS wise, like a boss, Foie/Rafoie pretty much kills it all. Nothing elsewhere in that skill tree can dominate it. With Flame Tech S Charge on your side, the fire skill path, good units/mag/your overall stats, you'll kill the boss a whole lot faster than you would vs any other tech and actually compete with Hunters and Rangers. Otherwise, either the hunter or ranger would have slaughtered the area or boss.

So shiz is just slower for me with any other tech. Rather do 900-1200 rafoie/foie normally than something way lower with a longer charge time.

Lastly, ain't my fault Sega made the game so far where most of the mobs are weak to fire. Kinda hilarious, but at the same time, even mobs not weak to fire still drop like flies with the fire path.

So I look towards the future when new classes and other skills/techs come out so hopefully I don't have to play lvl 1-100 using Rafoie/Foie/Gifoie 24/7 because it got boring doing this after level 35 (But you got to because its fast and great damage lol). At least in PSU, I didn't resort to using the same technics 24/7.

MasterSpark
Jul 16, 2012, 11:06 AM
I find foie to be much better at hitting certain weak spots than rafoie is. A big case in point is the faces of the snow panther bosses in the tundra, and the back-flanks of the yetis. Rafoie seems to target a point slightly behind where foie impacts when they're aimed at the same spot, and when hitting a snow panther's head foie usually causes about twice as much damage.

I haven't tried using rafoie in aiming mode yet, but I wouldn't want to be doing that against the panthers anyway. ^^;

IndigoNovember
Jul 16, 2012, 11:18 AM
Hmm, I noticed you could do graze damage with Foie, but I suck at TPS (controller player who doesn't play shooters here) so I probably won't use it.

I didn't know Gibarta did more damage than Rabarta... I'll have to give it another try.

I guess Razonde is just horrible and this is already established?

Anyways thanks for the replies.

Randomness
Jul 16, 2012, 11:45 AM
Razonde is only useful when used from an airborne card and charged. It takes enough effort to set up though that Gifoie, Gigrants, and Rabarta will all do the job better though.

Lostbob117
Jul 16, 2012, 12:00 PM
Technic is how PSU spelled them. And since the game is in Japanese and Katakana pronunciations are funky, well...

Weird.

Wolfgrey666
Jul 16, 2012, 12:35 PM
You seem to have said it already, but I'll say it anyway: Rafoie very much can hit Rockbear in the face in Aiming Mode, and due to how slow Rockbear is, it may be even better than Foie at that.

Well, as it has been said before, Foie's niche seems to be its grazing damage. If you aim near your target instead of right at it, the fireball will deal its full damage, but will keep going forward. Not too useful against bosses, but I'll try it during the next Cross Burst to see if it does better than Rafoie.



Well, I've been trying to use Rabarta on Vol Dragon with both Cards and Rod, but still couldn't freeze it any more reliably than with Gibarta. I get a feeling that it keeps hitting its wings, arms, horns, and basically everything except for the legs, which it should. with 17% vs. 30% Freeze chance, you'd think the difference would have been noticeable, especially since Gibarta isn't that easy to aim from a Talis, either.

I used cards exclusively and don't have any problems.Still freeze him pretty often.Though i also have a habit of getting between his legs and letting it rip.

....that sounds awkward

soulpimpwizzurd
Jul 16, 2012, 12:48 PM
I used cards exclusively and don't have any problems.Still freeze him pretty often.Though i also have a habit of getting between his legs and letting it rip.

....that sounds awkward

what's wrong with playing with beyblades between legs?

Ana-Chan
Jul 16, 2012, 01:07 PM
The correct spelling is "TECHNIC", in all caps :D

PSO had it spelt as Technique, so obviously "correct" is variable.

JNMeiun
Jul 16, 2012, 01:08 PM
If you're hitting a single target, Zonde with Bolt PP Save 10 skill is more PP efficient than either Rafoie or Grants and may actually end up being better DPS than the others because of this. I have not tested this, though, I currently do not have a skill tree with both PP revival and Bolt PP save. Testing is expensive :D


i do have more than one tree. it is not more effective at single target without the debuff and all zonde techniques have a measure of aoe, none of them are single target. Foie will kill faster simply because of the charge speed increase, the higher number of enemies weak to it and burning.

IndigoNovember
Jul 16, 2012, 02:25 PM
PSO had it spelt as Technique, so obviously "correct" is variable.

Completely forgot this =_=; . Damn you PSU.

On another note, is it possible to get GiGrants or Grants in any other form besides the level 3 and level 1 discs that Maaruu gives you?

JNMeiun
Jul 16, 2012, 06:27 PM
no but their base is higher than anything but the zonde debuff

Wolfgrey666
Jul 16, 2012, 06:48 PM
what's wrong with playing with beyblades between legs?

I used to have a beyblade arena and a bunch of those things.Loud as hell having like 5 of them going at it but was so dam fun.Especially when they often went flying out of the arena at the nearest onlooker.

Coatl
Jul 16, 2012, 07:27 PM
Gibarta and Razonde are so bad..

It's a shame too. It's obvious Gibarta going to be a nice flinch/freeze nightmare for monsters. What it needs is a huuuuge boost in radius and it will be fine.
Razonde looks cool, but the time it takes to go TPS mode to aim above your enemy and cast the technic, then aim again when it moves just isn't worth it. Mines are coming out soon so MAYBE the effort will be worth it.

I don't even know how you could fix Razonde..

Hrith
Jul 17, 2012, 10:11 PM
You mean range, because the radius of Gibarta is already 180 degrees, it's a huge increase from what it was in PSO1, and is more than enough.

Mind this is Lv10 Gibarta you are talking about (at best). The tech is good, very good when soloing. The damage is good and the radius is amazing, now it odes severely lack range and cards do not work too well with that tech.

If you have played PSO1, you know how to fix Razonde :P

Ana-Chan
Jul 17, 2012, 10:44 PM
Gibarta and Razonde are so bad..

It's a shame too. It's obvious Gibarta going to be a nice flinch/freeze nightmare for monsters. What it needs is a huuuuge boost in radius and it will be fine.
Razonde looks cool, but the time it takes to go TPS mode to aim above your enemy and cast the technic, then aim again when it moves just isn't worth it. Mines are coming out soon so MAYBE the effort will be worth it.

I don't even know how you could fix Razonde..

Well, I don't think gibarta is actually that bad, it has a pretty nice effect radius, and at level 9, the range isn't bad either. The radius, as mentioned is around 180 degrees, and I've noticed that it hits around a metre from the point of origin. I'm sure it will also increase too, so why it may not be great at lower levels, would you want it to have amazing power and range right from the start? That is the point in increasing the levels.
For razonde, it is more of a specialised thing. The simplest way to increase it's radius is to jump, but with gizonde there seems to be less need for it. Maybe this will change with time. But unlike gifoie, gigrants and rabarta, the range of razonde is fairly small. Maybe this will be something that increases at higher levels, or maybe each spark that hits the ground will add splash damage (like zonde).
Well, it is tough to see the future of the techs right now, especially since we haven't gone over level 10 (and major animation changes and stuff only occured at higher levels in both PSO and PSU). But I can say for sure, I am using a larger variety of techs now compared to what I used in PSO.

Hrith
Jul 19, 2012, 09:43 PM
What does the arrow up icon mean next to some of my techs?

TecherRamen
Jul 19, 2012, 10:17 PM
gibarta is good if you shove it in sometihng's face. you can also use it kind of like a wall if youre supporting a hunter.

Ysi
Jul 19, 2012, 10:18 PM
What does the arrow up icon mean next to some of my techs?

You have discs of higher lvl in your inventory for those technics with arrows on the icon. When you click on those technics it will give you a prompt to choose whether to use those discs.

TecherRamen
Jul 20, 2012, 12:49 AM
http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?テクニック%2Fテクニック系#u93dd0e1

this is pretty cool. It has some information about unreleased techs, including megid.

seems megid has poison effect, is a projectile that homes slightly and has a small area of effect.

couldnt find any pictures of it tho X(

Stegodon
Jul 20, 2012, 02:32 AM
Looks awesome, Im still confused on how to get stronger Grantz spells.... I have level 1 and 3 from the quest... not once have i seen any drop in a field. and the My Shop never has them either......

Sp-24
Jul 20, 2012, 02:51 AM
Grants is also great against an infected Dragon, since it won't lightning-rod into the horn like Rafoie does, and will deal some awesome damage.

IndigoNovember
Jul 20, 2012, 03:29 AM
Grants is also great against an infected Dragon, since it won't lightning-rod into the horn like Rafoie does, and will deal some awesome damage.

Lightning-rod into the horn?

Ana-Chan
Jul 20, 2012, 03:43 AM
I also forgot to say this: Foie is underrated.

This.

soulpimpwizzurd
Jul 20, 2012, 03:50 AM
foie looks cool but i still think it's gimped. it's aoe isn't that great compared to rafoie's, and it's not instant.

i personally think foie should be like barta and pierce through enemies. i don't see why not, it's fire ffs

it's not like a bullet or something.

i would actually use foie if it was piercing. it should have its damage reduced a little in exchange for being piercing or something.

Ana-Chan
Jul 20, 2012, 03:54 AM
foie looks cool but i still think it's gimped. it's aoe isn't that great compared to rafoie's, and it's not instant.

i personally think foie should be like barta and pierce through enemies. i don't see why not, it's fire ffs

it's not like a bullet or something.

i would actually use foie if it was piercing. it should have its damage reduced a little in exchange for being piercing or something.

But it is like a bullet, and let's face it, if it was an AOE like rafoie, then rafoie would be usless.

Oh, also, barta isn't piercing, it runs along the ground. So if it hits a solid enough enemy or terrain then even barta will be stopped in its tracks.

Sp-24
Jul 20, 2012, 04:14 AM
Foie has grazing damage. If you intentionally almost-miss an enemy, it will deal full damage, but will keep going without giving a shit. It is a bit situational, since you already have Gizonde and Gibarta for that, but can still come in handy... Well, sometimes, I guess.

The problem with Foie is that Rafoie, Gizonde and Gibarta are an ideal setup for the vast majority of situations. I only really use Foie against Vol Dragon, and Grants - against its infected version and Snow Panther.

Ana-Chan
Jul 20, 2012, 04:23 AM
It is more than a bit situational, it seems it also depends on personal preferences. I use foie a lot more.
If monsters appear grouped fairly close together, gifoie or rafoie are better picks. But when the monsters appear in a more staggard layout. In these situation I use foie with its graze damage to hit more than other techs could at that time. But even though I use foie often, I also use gifoie and rafoie too.
I just seem to have foind a fairly comfortable way of using foie to take out multiple enemies at once at long range.
Of course, this is meant for the enemies that are weaker against fire. I tend to switch to the monster's weaknesses.

Hrith
Jul 20, 2012, 09:05 AM
You have discs of higher lvl in your inventory for those technics with arrows on the icon. When you click on those technics it will give you a prompt to choose whether to use those discs.Thank you very much. What a nice feature, too.

TecherRamen
Jul 20, 2012, 09:54 AM
Oh, also, barta isn't piercing, it runs along the ground. So if it hits a solid enough enemy or terrain then even barta will be stopped in its tracks.

terrain yes, enemy no. i have never seen it stopped by an enemy and I use it ALOT. its still good lots of places besides the terrain handicap. Its too bad the conveyer sections in the mines stop it.

Foie does the same as barta if it doesnt hit an enemy directly its a little harder to use tho.

Acel
Jul 21, 2012, 01:06 AM
SaZonde -> Zonde/GiZonde

Period.

For RaZonde, use a Talisman and jump attack to place it at location of choice/aim skywards with Talisman before activating.

Problem Solved.

Sp-24
Jul 21, 2012, 02:49 AM
SaZonde -> Zonde/GiZonde

Period.

How about a no.

To elaborate: it isn't.


For RaZonde, use a Talisman and jump attack to place it at location of choice/aim skywards with Talisman before activating.

Problem Solved.

The time it takes to set up a card isn't worth it. By the time it reaches a high enough spot it'll only have enough life time for 3 shots, or 4 if you are lucky. Gizonde is way easier to aim and it doesn't need a card high in the sky in order to have a decent AoE, meaning that you can cast it off a rod for a bit more damage or off a card from a much greater distance (since you only need one enemy to start the AoE ownage).

Gizonde is the god of bolt techs and Razonde is useless. Sazonde = Zonde. I'm retracting that. Sazonde is kind of sorta not bad.