Why I believe the 3 new classes are simply upgraded versions of the current classes

[Zipzo]

I firmly believe that the three new classes are simply extensions of the current classes, and it's a pretty simple explanation as to why.

Take a look at our skill trees. Did you also notice that they are adding a few new weapon types to the game? Now look really hard at your skill tree. Notice how there are zero relevant talents that benefit any of the weapons that are releasing with that very same patch?

The 'new' class is going to be an upgraded version of your current class (Force > Super Force, Hunter > Mega Hunter, Ranger > Burning Ranger), with a new skill tree that provides a fair amount of choices to supplement the new weapon options you will have. Essentially ranking up to the 2nd tier of your class will allow you a more diverse weapon selection, probably a boost in stats, and a new set of skills you can spend SP in. My prediction is that the trees for the extension classes will be small, so as to not completely eclipse the viability of your basic tree you have now. There will be a few talents relevant to the new weapon options, and maybe a number of other things, but not nearly as expansive as the basic tree you get to start with.

[GoldenFalcon]

Wrong, they are subclasses

[Zipzo]

Wrong, they are subclassesElaborate? If you're just disagreeing with me, awesome proof you got there.

[Kondibon]

A few of us, me, some friends, and a few people on the forums have speculated, based on the little evidence we have ( can list it all if you want) that the 3 new classes coming out will be subclasses that add things to the main classes rather than being something you switch to completely.

Thus there'd be 6 classes with 9 combinations, your current main class plus one of the 3 secondary classes. HUGunner, HUTecher, HUFighter, RATecher, RAFighter, RAGunner, FOFighter, FOGunner, FOTecher. Further adding to that we could then add the Race/gender suffixes, to get something like.

HUGnewearl
HUTnewearl
HUFnewearl
RATnewearl
RAFnewearl
RAGnewearl
FOFnewearl
FOGnewearl
FOTnewearl

I don't expect these names to catch on much at all (lolRAT)... but HUGnewearl... HUGnewearl I'd be lying if I said I don't think that sounds adorable.

[Vashyron]

Subclasses Datamined, also check out most places where you can see your own class info, you'll likely see a "mysterious" gap near them.

[Zipzo]

The reason hybrid classes seems unlikely, is because then we have arbitrary rules preventing the hunter class from equipping double sabers, for example. Rangers from equipping twin mechs.

It makes a lot less sense than my idea...

Subclasses DataminedShow me.

[TetsuyaHikari]

The reason hybrid classes seems unlikely, is because then we have arbitrary rules preventing the hunter class from equipping double sabers, for example. Rangers from equipping twin mechs.

It makes a lot less sense than my idea...

For now we do, yes.

[Geistritter]

This is an awful lot of heated defense for something you don't even know for sure. Wait and find out what they are and you don't have to speculate, or get snippy when someone doesn't agree with your guess. Pretty simple.

[Zipzo]

For now we do, yes.That won't change when the patch releases, unless they redo the skill trees every time they release new weapons, which seems highly improbable, don't you think?
This is an awful lot of heated defense for something you don't even know for sure. Wait and find out what they are and you don't have to speculate, or get snippy when someone doesn't agree with your guess. Pretty simple.I don't understand, I'm not heated, I'm just shooting the breeze. Post something useful or don't at all. There's a difference between disgreeing and just flat out declining it with alleged proof that they don't provide.

[Mikura]

Soo....if I'm understanding this right, they're basically going to be like PSO2's version of a subjob for your main class? Like how FFXI is set up?

[Geistritter]

We have absolutely no idea whatsoever.

[Kirukia]

That won't change when the patch releases, unless they redo the skill trees every time they release new weapons, which seems highly improbable, don't you think?I don't understand, I'm not heated, I'm just shooting the breeze. Post something useful or don't at all.

Or it's a good way to people to buy Ark Cash so they can reset their Skill Trees if they simply expand them :p

[GoldenFalcon]

Your equipped class has a fancy golden badge.
In the game's icons, there exists a less fancy, silver badge.

Missions all say 0 EXP under Meseta since you have no subclass yet to level up.

There is a empty space to the right of your class at the class counter, which is for the subclass.

etc.

[HFlowen]

The 'new' class is going to be an upgraded version of your current class (Force > Super Force, Hunter > Mega Hunter, Ranger > Burning Ranger)

PFFFTHAHA! I lost it right there, thank you for that.

[Kondibon]

The reason hybrid classes seems unlikely, is because then we have arbitrary rules preventing the hunter class from equipping double sabers, for example. Rangers from equipping twin mechs.

It makes a lot less sense than my idea...
Show me.

They'd do it by specializing. Becoming a HUFighter for instance. I remember reading that Sakai said 2 classes may be able to use the new weapons. At first I was confused but it's entirely possible that Hunters will be able to use the new weapons but will need the fighter subclass to get the skills for them, if anything.

[Vashyron]

Check out what Sakai said:

New weapon categories and new classes are coming together. He thinks they’ll make it so that the weapon categories could be used by 2 classes, however, all classes will continue to use the Gunslash.

http://bumped.org/psublog/phantasy-star-producer-satoshi-sakai-addresses-his-foreign-fans/

As for showing Datamined info. Subclass icon here, look around the bottom right area, above our current class icon (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12804628/PSO2/PSO2%20Icons/Texture/pso2_closebeta_ui_appearance.png).
Current weapon data also mention them. As in "Can Fighter / Gunner/ Techer equip this?"

[Laxedrane]

Soo....if I'm understanding this right, they're basically going to be like PSO2's version of a subjob for your main class? Like how FFXI is set up?

As a FFXI player of 8 years the idea that Sega taking notes from that game both scares and excites me.

Pro tip sega. PAY ATTENTION TO THEIR STORY TELLING NOT THEIR GAME PLAY CHOICES.

I am ok if they are making sub classes in the same light as ffxi so long as it is well executed.

[Zipzo]

They'd do it by specializing. Becoming a HUFighter for instance. I remember reading that Sakai said 2 classes may be able to use the new weapons. At first I was confused but it's entirely possible that Hunters will be able to use the new weapons but will need the fighter subclass to get the skills for them, if anything.
Well if the 3 new classes come in the form of fighter/tech-user/gunner or something, then isn't that essentially...the idea I'm preaching? Letting every class choose from 1/3 of those creates way more than 3 new classes.

[gigawuts]

I don't know, I like the idea of subclasses that also permit specialization. Being able to branch out to the other two classes in a small dosage or just double down on your current one seems like something that would fit with this game's skill trees.

There's also no reason that some of these weapons can't be shared. Mechguns for instance were allclass in PSO1, weren't they? I don't remember what they were in PSU, but I think the good ones were generally limited to ranger.

[Enforcer MKV]

PFFFTHAHA! I lost it right there, thank you for that.

*Ahem*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-5IWvmpaNs

have fun. :D

[Mikura]

Your equipped class has a fancy golden badge.
In the game's icons, there exists a less fancy, silver badge.

Missions all say 0 EXP under Meseta since you have no subclass yet to level up.

There is a empty space to the right of your class at the class counter, which is for the subclass.

etc.

Hmm, I never noticed that. That makes a lot of sense though for subclasses to fit in there. Be nice if I could sub a techer class and be able to heal and buff myself on hunter like when I played HUnewearl in PSO back in the day.

[GoldenFalcon]

"He thinks they’ll make it so that the weapon categories could be used by 2 classes"

This sounds like a dead-giveaway for hybrids, rather than subclasses

I really want subclasses instead

[Only $19.99]

y'all are hilarious man.

[Laxedrane]

I don't know, I like the idea of subclasses that also permit specialization. Being able to branch out to the other two classes in a small dosage or just double down on your current one seems like something that would fit with this game's skill trees.

There's also no reason that some of these weapons can't be shared. Mechguns for instance were allclass in PSO1, weren't they? I don't remember what they were in PSU, but I think the good ones were generally limited to ranger.


They were all class through the 3 generic rares. After that they had a tendency to drop force and the rarest ones were ranger only. PSU off hand I say only 2-3 types could equip machine guns and they had some form of gunner in their name.

[Mikura]

"He thinks they’ll make it so that the weapon categories could be used by 2 classes"

This sounds like a dead-giveaway for hybrids, rather than subclasses

I really want subclasses instead

I agree. I'd much rather have subclasses at the moment if it's going to work like I think it will.

[Kondibon]

Well if the 3 new classes come in the form of fighter/tech-user/gunner or something, then isn't that essentially...the idea I'm preaching? Letting every class choose from 1/3 of those creates way more than 3 new classes.That's the interesting part. It's still just 3 classes, but 9 combinations. It would allow variety without them having to add a bunch of classes.

But yes. Doubling up would be like what you're saying, and I like the idea of the option being there. It's just that the subclass thing would allow people to do combinations that, as others have said, would be more suited to their race. As right now there's no big statistical advantage or balance to choosing to play a HUnewearl or a FOcast right now.

[Zipzo]

So here's the thing. He said specifically there will be three new classes. Choosing a sub-class for your current class...does not equate to a class. You're just tacking on one of the other 2/3 (sub classing the class you already are makes no sense?) classes you didn't pick in order hybridize your current class. What's the benefit of going double hunter? Unless of course, you're suggesting they are doing BOTH ideas in one...

Why would he use the number three? Adding sub classes in no way correlates mechanically to having 3 new classes in the game as announced.

[Enforcer MKV]

That's the interesting part. It's still just 3 classes, but 9 combinations. It would allow variety without them having to add a bunch of classes.

But yes. Doubling up would be like what you're saying, and I like the idea of the option being there. It's just that the subclass thing would allow people to do combinations that, as others have said, would be more suited to their race. As right now there's no big statistical advantage or balance to choosing to play a HUnewearl or a FOcast right now.

If we get subclasses, I'm so calling Ranger/Techer Guntecher. ENFORCER MKV's SPIRIT LIVES ON IN MKX!

[Aewyn]

Actually there were five PSU classes that could use machineguns-- Ranger, Fighgunner, Guntecher, Fortegunner and Acrotecher. That's 5/15 classes that could use them, which speaks better to a 'select your subclass' type if you're looking to simplify. If not, then you're just going to do something like PSU again and offer different 'class types' that are the same thing, 'but more!'

[GoldenFalcon]

So here's the thing.

He said specifically there will be three new classes.

Choosing a sub-class for your current class...does not equate to a class. You're just tacking on one of the other 2/3 classes you didn't pick in order hybridize your current class.

Why would he use the number three? Sub classes in no way correlates to having 3 new classes in the game as announced.

Well, they would be 3 new classes, with skill trees
Except you'd just be equipping two classes at once, one from Hunter/Ranger/Force, and one from Fighter/Gunner/Techer
This way, there isn't entire new stat charts for the new classes too

[Scrub]

I think what sucks is that in uhhh PSU you had your character level AND your class level, and in this you just have a class level. Does this mean that if I switch to one of the new classes I'm going to have to level up again? For the third time? Fuck you sega!

[GoldenFalcon]

Whoops, you edited
Well, you'd go "double hunter", so that you can use sword, spear, wirelance, doublesaber, knuckle, and twin dagger at the same time

[Zipzo]

Well, they would be 3 new classes, with skill trees
Except you'd just be equipping two classes at once, one from Hunter/Ranger/Force, and one from Fighter/Gunner/Techer
This way, there isn't entire new stat charts for the new classes tooYou don't think the amount of SP needed to facilitate the new trees will be much too high? They aren't boosting the level cap by 30 every patch. When they patch that in they are increasing the cap by 10, correct?

10 SP to spend cumulatively between your basic tree and a new tree?

[Kondibon]

Honestly the only reason most of us think it would be subclasses is because of all the evidence for it lying around. It's entirely possible that you're right and we won't get sub classes for ages but there's way too much evidence pointing towards it right now for me to completely rule out the idea.

And if there are weapons/skill trees tied to the classes, I'd say that they have every right to be considered full classes even if they level up differently from main classes. Just because he said nothing about them being sub-classes doesn't mean they couldn't be. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

[GoldenFalcon]

You don't think the amount of SP needed to facilitate the new trees will be much too high? They aren't boosting the level cap by 30 every patch. When they patch that in they are increasing the cap by 10, correct?

10 SP to spend cumulatively between your basic tree and a new tree?

No, it would be a separate tree that starts at level 1, to level up only from the EXP from S ranks

[Zipzo]

Honestly the only reason most of us think it would be subclasses is because of all the evidence for it lying around. It's entirely possible that you're right and we won't get sub classes for ages but there's way too much evidence pointing towards it right now for me to completely rule out the idea.

And if there are weapons/skill trees tied to the classes, I'd say that they have every right to be considered full classes even if they level up differently from main classes. Just because he said nothing about them being sub-classes doesn't mean they couldn't be. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.My point a couple of posts ago was that if you count every new combination leading to a different game play experience, adding sub-classes essentially adds nine classes to the game. Not three.

That's what colors me skeptical over the idea of sub classes. The current set up of the game just does not point directly at sub classes to me, regardless of data mined info (which could mean nothing, they could change their mind at a moments notice even if that data mined info was accurate in this regard).

[TetsuyaHikari]

That won't change when the patch releases, unless they redo the skill trees every time they release new weapons, which seems highly improbable, don't you think?

You... do realize we're talking about Sega, right? I don't put anything past these guys, lol.

[Ether]

Take a look at our skill trees. Did you also notice that they are adding a few new weapon types to the game? Now look really hard at your skill tree. Notice how there are zero relevant talents that benefit any of the weapons that are releasing with that very same patch?

Skill trees are exactly why I think the new classes WON'T be upgraded versions of the current ones, but rather parallel ones that are very similar. What if someone had bought extra hunter skill trees, only to be told that they would be forced to switch to Fighter who has a different skill-tree. I'd be kind of pissed!

While I hadn't considered the possibility of subclasses, my prediction is that they'll add the new weapon types, then 3 new classes that have skill trees that focus on the new weapons. For example, hunters and fighters will both be able to use double saber (this fits the 2 classes thing Sakai mentioned) but only fighter will have skills for it in their tree. This way they can add new things to the game while not having to change and invalidate what's already there.

[GoldenFalcon]

Well, if they do add Fighgunner/Guntecher/Wartecher, that kind of makes subclasses seem silly afterwards
Since you could be Fighgunner with a subclass of force or techer
Making everything pointlessly fat

[Enforcer MKV]

You... do realize we're talking about Sega, right? I don't put anything past these guys, lol.

Then again, when Champions Online has changes done to the skill trees, they'll reset them so everyone has to redo them. Same with WoW.

It's totally possible Skill trees could be reset. Honestly, I'd prefer they do that if they ever make changes to the trees.

[Vashyron]

Hrm, well some speculation from me, could be that they are 3 new classes with their own skill trees and the sub class ordeal may not even be related yet.

[Kondibon]

Hrm, well some speculation from me, could be that they are 3 new classes with their own skill trees and the sub class ordeal may not even be related yet.I think I mentioned that already, but like I said there's so much evidence pointing towards it, I'm not gonna just drop the idea unless something changes (suddenly that space in the class counter menu is gone etc). You're right though. It's entirely possible for the classes he's talking about to not be subclasses. What kind of classes they'd be other than subclasses or combo classes (which, as Goldy said, wouldn't work well togeather) is up in the air.

This is all just speculation for fun though. XD It could be that the one guy who said they're gonna be Dumen is right and we all end up ragequitting when they're the only ones with the new weapons.

[Zyrusticae]

I really want to see those spaces filled, plus I REALLY like the subclass idea, so I'm rooting for it.

I just know I'll be disappointed if they turn out to actually be distinct classes.

[GoldenFalcon]

Well, they could just add the new weapons to the current classes, so that Hunter with Fighter subclass would have 100% overlap, but you get the skill tree to utilize the new weapons
To encourage hybrid setups

[TetsuyaHikari]

Then again, when Champions Online has changes done to the skill trees, they'll reset them so everyone has to redo them. Same with WoW.

It's totally possible Skill trees could be reset. Honestly, I'd prefer they do that if they ever make changes to the trees.

This is what came to mind actually. This is why I wouldn't put it past them to do something like this. It's more than feasible. The question is, will it be necessary?

Only time will tell.

[gigawuts]

So here's the thing. He said specifically there will be three new classes. Choosing a sub-class for your current class...does not equate to a class. You're just tacking on one of the other 2/3 (sub classing the class you already are makes no sense?) classes you didn't pick in order hybridize your current class. What's the benefit of going double hunter? Unless of course, you're suggesting they are doing BOTH ideas in one...

Why would he use the number three? Adding sub classes in no way correlates mechanically to having 3 new classes in the game as announced.

Exactly.

You can stay purely hunter, force, or ranger.

Or you can split it and be a hunter/force, hunter/ranger, or ranger/force. The order in which you choose your primary or secondary class wouldn't particularly matter.

edit: The advantage would be not putting SP into a new skill tree, and instead keeping it in your current one to gain the highest bonuses at the higher levels of a skill.

[GoldenFalcon]

You can stay purely hunter, force, or ranger.

Or you can split it and be a hunter/force, hunter/ranger, or ranger/force. The order in which you choose your primary or secondary class wouldn't particularly matter.

Primary would determine your stats, and all 9 combinations would have a unique pairing of skill trees.

[gigawuts]

They could do it either way, honestly. The idea I'm posting is that they basically just grant you access to another class's skill tree and some of the weapons from each class. It adheres to the "three new classes" line.

I'd personally prefer genuine subclasses, but that's me. They might also add in legit new classes with their own hybrid skill trees, or say fuck it and bring in some of the unique ones from PSU that I don't know much about.

[GoldenFalcon]

They might also add in legit new classes with their own hybrid skill trees, or say fuck it and bring in some of the unique ones from PSU that I don't know much about.

This just in: New classes are Acrofighter, Acrotecher, and Protranser

[gigawuts]

Did protranser have swords? I know it had traps.

If I can get traps and swords I am so down.

[Gardios]

That won't change when the patch releases, unless they redo the skill trees every time they release new weapons, which seems highly improbable, don't you think?
Skill tree expansions are definitely not unheard of in MMORPGs and I don't see why PSO2 wouldn't do the same.

[GoldenFalcon]

Did protranser have swords? I know it had traps.

If I can get traps and swords I am so down.

Also had doublesaber

Acro classes were dual weapons (knuckles, daggers, twin guns)

This revelation has compelling evidence

[gigawuts]

Also had doublesaber

Acro classes were dual weapons (knuckles, daggers, twin guns)

This revelation has compelling evidence

I...

I want this.

I need this.

[Konflyk]

No, it would be a separate tree that starts at level 1, to level up only from the EXP from S ranks

[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/images/1310481500822.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Sorry I don't want that, just set me back to level one I'd rather have full control over my leveling opposed to the petty experience that is PSU's class leveling system, this only promotes the same bullshit that no one liked which was White Beast farming.

On topic at OP, it's going to be subclasses and/or new hybrid noted as, Fighgunner, Guntecher, Wartecher. /thread

Edit: Acro's were single handed masters, not double, they received bonuses to attack speed, and most weapons were dual weild like 1h saber + 1h Cards or mag+whip

[Laxedrane]

Also had doublesaber

Acro classes were dual weapons (knuckles, daggers, twin guns)

This revelation has compelling evidence


Protranser in PSU didn't use double sabers and both acro classes specialized in single handed weapons. While acrofighter did have access to A rank two handed weapons and acrotecher had a few too(Although I think it's silly to use dual handed weapons they capped without their last command) the fact still remains they specialized in single handed weapons.

[tlbww]

I'm more inclined to think that the "new" classes are introducing hybrids or splitting the primary classes in half.

For hybrids... it's simple: figunner, wartecher, guntecher.... done.

For splitting primary (I.e subclass) You have:

1) Hunter split into
a) Fortehunter: Hi/slow dmg target/primary tank. Wpns: sword/partisan (2/hs and large wpns)
b) Acrohunter: Hunter based for dps with hitter number of hits. Wpns: duals.
(Something like a Hucast vs a Hucaseul/Hunewmerl)

2)Ranger splits to
a)Fortegunner: Limited mobility think tank. Basically the original gunner only suped up. Primary focus on dps from a distance.
b)Protranser: Heavier emphasis on traps and mobility. Uses the lighter guns (like acrofighter/protranser hybrid)

3)Force is divided
a)Fortetecher: You're tried and true Hunewm! Basically you were once a Focast, now you're a MasterFOnewearl.
b) Acrotecher: Your hybrid war/force. More of an emphasis on non-rod type wpns. Increases ranged dmg. Potential for ranged-tech dmg that isn't a spell (magi-gun/swords). More realistically just the emphasis on non-rod wpns. Probably made more for support spells than Fortetecher.

This 2nd scheme seems more realistic as they can build upon the class trees and have new branches lead to the subclasses.

[GoldenFalcon]

My only question is: Why defile what Protranser stands for
Just call it Acrogunner lol

[TetsuyaHikari]

My only question is: Why defile what Protranser stands for
Just call it Acrogunner lol

No, you mean:

XTREMEGUNNER

[Vylera]

My vote?

Wait for them to be released.

[GoldenFalcon]

No, you mean:

XTREMEGUNNER

Progunner

[TetsuyaHikari]

Progunner

Yes. I approve, hahaha. Dammit... now I want an Elitefighter or something cool like, "Progunner" so I can walk around like a boss.

EDIT:
My vote?

Wait for them to be released.

There was a vote? I wasn't aware people could vote in a speculation thread. Huh...

The More You Know~✰

[tlbww]

Or Acropro! The latest in GRM technology!

[gigawuts]

No, you mean:

XTREMEGUNNER

No, you mean GUNNER EXTREME

[GoldenFalcon]

Well, could always make a Team and call it Progunner
Just so you can display Team and make it look like all of your Team members are Progunner class
I think

[Vylera]

The More You Know~✰

The more you Kohls!

Wait...

[Zipzo]

I still believe most of your hybrid ideas to be simply fleeting dreams/desires, I'm not sure they intend to drop 50 thousand class combinations in one patch when the cap is level 50.

I understand the want for such customization, but the game can be better without it.

[TetsuyaHikari]

Well, could always make a Team and call it Progunner
Just so you can display Team and make it look like all of your Team members are Progunner class
I think

Pfft. I'd end up looking like Usopp from One Piece. I pretend to have this giant army, but nobody has ever seen my men, lol.

"Stand back! You wouldn't dare attack a man with thousands of men defending him, would you?! Bwahahahaha!"

[Arika]

I m also thinking that they will come as hybrid too. We have Soul Eater, but it is useless on FO and RA that they can't PA. We have Duelist Case, but it is no good on HU and RA as they can't tech. I think hybrid will be good on those weapon, because they will be allowed to use more than 1 classes of PA/tech. They also still need to have a classes that is good for gunslash. Currently people don't like to use it much other than EXP boost, and... (some small TA tip)

I don't think by adding any weapon category will need to have any effect on the skill tree. because they will have the skill tree update onto current classes too. and with the level cap rise, you have more SP to spend.

Also, by common sense, some of the new weapon will be for new classes only. but not all.
It will be similar to Wartecher, Guntecher, and Fightgunner.

probably they will have pure advance classes later. but not yet. too early for game to have them now.
Anyway, think what you like. we will see the actual result in about 1-2 months.

[TetsuyaHikari]

I m also thinking that they will come as hybrid too. We have Soul Eater, but it is useless on FO and RA that they can't PA. We have Duelist Case, but it is no good on HU and RA as they can't tech. I think hybrid will be good on those weapon, because they will be allowed to use more than 1 classes of PA/tech.

I don't think by adding any weapon category will need to have any effect on the skill tree. because they will have the skill tree update onto current classes too. and may add client that give you another free +5 SP/ Either that or they feel like you to buy AC additional skill tree.

Also, by common sense, some of the new weapon will be for new classes only. but not all.

gib boxer class with knuckles exclusively

kthxbai

[Konflyk]

I still believe most of your hybrid ideas to be simply fleeting dreams/desires, I'm not sure they intend to drop 50 thousand class combinations in one patch when the cap is level 50.

I understand the want for such customization, but the game can be better without it.

Implying hybrids haven't already been in the series before.

It's happening Zip, might not be over night like you're implying, it's already going to be one of the two possible.

Fighgunner, Guntecher, Wartecher or Fortefighter, Fortegunner, Fortetecher(which is more of what you want) I'd prefer the first of the two.

[Wolfgrey666]

gib boxer class with knuckles exclusively

kthxbai

I approve and would make a character for Boxer only XD I would even buy a fro for him.

[GoldenFalcon]

Implying hybrids haven't already been in the series before.

The fifty thousand classes thing was directed at me, saying that Fighgunner would have 2 variants (Huntergunner and Rangerfighter) due to subclasses, along with 2 for wartecher and guntecher, and effective forte classes (Forcetecher)

[TetsuyaHikari]

I approve and would make a character for Boxer only XD I would even buy a fro for him.

I'm already planning on making a boxing type, but fighting bare-handed right now would suck like... a LOT, lol. Although, I have to hand it to them. That dodge you get when fighting bare-handed is godlike. The invincibility frames on it are through the roof.

I can't even tell you how much crazy shit I dodged earlier with it, haha.

[bardiche]

The only thing that's really making me think that there'll be hybrid/subclassing is how some NPC events makes it a big deal that we, new Arks members can change classes freely while the older NPC members can't, since their talent with Photons seem to be fixed to the body strenghtening type(Hunter), heightened sense type(Ranger) or environmental photon control type(Force). If you can change classes anytime already, what's next ? BE MORE THAN ONE CLASS AT ONCE.

(random funny Afin event out of memory)
Afin: "I don't think things really changed much with our generation, I wonder why our seniors can't change classes ?"
Afin: "...maybe they secretly did something to us when we joined ?"
Afin: "Naaah. No way, right ?"

Yeah, no way, right ?

[Zipzo]

Alright well if it's as most of you seem to believe without a shadow of a doubt, then it is what it is.

If it isn't though...I'm going to bump the shit out of this thread.

[eharima]

Don't ya'll forget the business model yo.

They are going to want to implement ideas that make people FEEL like they need to reset or buy new skill tress.

[Rieselle]

If we have Burning Rangers, then surely we'd have Shining Forces? ;)

[Dabian]

If we have Burning Rangers, then surely we'd have Shining Forces? ;)

Yes please. :p

[Darki]

I don't see your logic. You say that the subclass system wouldn't make sense because that would mean that we'd get 9 more classes... But if it was what you believe, they wouldn't even be 3 classes, they would just be weapon use and skill tree expansions, not even full classes.

All evidence in the game points that there's some part of the gameplay missing that will involve exp rewards from missions and an extra slot in the skill trees. Besides, do you honestly think they're going to add new "expansion classes", let's call them, everytime they put two new weapons per class or so in the game? Then or they're planning on adding a crapload of class expansions or they're not going to add many more weapons to the game.

I believe weapons and skilltrees are going to be divided in the game into "core classes" and "sub-classes". Rods for example are a "core class weapon" that you can use only as a Force. Wand will be the soft version of the weapon, weaker, maybe faster, that "Techer" will be able to use. By choosing your subclass as Techer you'll have access to tech ussage and wands even if you're not a Force, and maybe a secondary skilltree related to techs. If you choose to be a Force-techer, you'll have access to wands and their new skills, effectively expanding the Force class with more content, but allowing for hybridation too.

For me seems almost too smart for SEGA, but is the method that makes the most sense to me.

[Lostbob117]

What if... you first had a class hunter, ranger, force, than you get to pick hunter, ranger, force again

hunter + hunter = forte"fighter"
hunter + ranger = Fight"gunner"
hunter + force = war"techer"
ranger + ranger = forte"gunner"
ranger + force = gun"techer
Force + Force = Forte"Techer"

Pointed out what someone datamined for class

Fighter
Gunner
Techer

hunter - hunter weps
ranger - ranger weps
force - force weps
Fortefighter - more hunter weps as in knuckles, double sabers.
Fortegunner - more ranger weps such as twin mechguns
Fortetecher - more force weps such as wands
fightgunner - hunter weps + ranger weps
guntecher - ranger weps + force weps
wartecher - hunter weps + force weps

That would be 9classes in all and wasn't there going to be 9classes? I heard that somewhere I don't know for sure though.

Anyways, thoughts?

[GoldenFalcon]

Anyways, thoughts?

Yes, that is my theory
Except there's effectively 12, due to hybrids being able to be done vice versa

[Kondibon]

What if... you first had a class hunter, ranger, force, than you get to pick hunter, ranger, force again

hunter + hunter = forte"fighter"
hunter + ranger = Fight"gunner"
hunter + force = war"techer"
ranger + ranger = forte"gunner"
ranger + force = gun"techer
Force + Force = Forte"Techer"

Pointed out what someone datamined for class

Fighter
Gunner
Techer

hunter - hunter weps
ranger - ranger weps
force - force weps
Fortefighter - more hunter weps as in knuckles, double sabers.
Fortegunner - more ranger weps such as twin mechguns
Fortetecher - more force weps such as wands
fightgunner - hunter weps + ranger weps
guntecher - ranger weps + force weps
wartecher - hunter weps + force weps

That would be 9classes in all and wasn't there going to be 9classes? I heard that somewhere I don't know for sure though.

Anyways, thoughts?This is basically what I said, the only difference being that I think the new classes are doing to have completely different skill trees and the like, which is why their names correspond so well to the naming scheme of the combo classes in *cough* PSU. I don't see why there'd be data for entirely new classes if they're just going to do stuff with the old ones. I feel bad that we kinda hijacked Zipzo's thread though. >_>

[drizzle]

3 new classes... that means the first subclass will be released (classic ST dripfeed tactic :D)

It makes perfect sense for there to be 3 subclasses. We're currently missing skill trees for 3 Force elements (light, dark & wind), and I bet we'll find those 3 elements on the techer subclass tree.
Similarly, the new melee weapon skills will be on the Fighter subclass skill tree, and the new ranged weapons on the Gunner trees.

[Zipzo]

3 new classes... that means the first subclass will be released (classic ST dripfeed tactic :D)

It makes perfect sense for there to be 3 subclasses. We're currently missing skill trees for 3 Force elements (light, dark & wind), and I bet we'll find those 3 elements on the techer subclass tree.
Similarly, the new melee weapon skills will be on the Fighter subclass skill tree, and the new ranged weapons on the Gunner trees.So you're saying a Hunter that chooses the tech sub tree will not be able to use these new weapons at all?

Sorry...there are just too many reasons why it doesn't make sense.

[ScottyMango]

That is what he's saying, and it does make sense.

The idea is that if you choose to continue going the route of a hunter (through 'Fighter'), then you'll have access to more hunter weapons and skills.

However, if you choose to go the route of Techer for example, while you will miss out on those fancy hunter weapons, you will gain fancy Force techniques.

Makes perfect sense to me. I don't see why you're so against all this.

See, you're saying it's just an upgraded version. That is one part of it, however everything else shows that not only will it be an 'upgrade', but it will also allow for the option of subclassing (as phantasy star has been doing for quite awhile now).

Why would you prefer that it's just an upgrade, and doesn't allow subclasses? How is that somehow preferable to being able to choose between an upgraded super hunter, or an awesome force hunter... aka Wartecher, as this has been going on in PS for the majority of their latest games.

[Geistritter]

They're against it because they don't want to be wrong and think they're an authority on something that's pure speculation.

[Kazlan]

So you're saying a Hunter that chooses the tech sub tree will not be able to use these new weapons at all?

Sorry...there are just too many reasons why it doesn't make sense.

I agree with this being the one odd point in the subclass idea where a force fighter can't use the other 3 types of techs or a hunter gunner that can't is any of the new close range weapons. But it seems more feasible then 3 whole new classes which I just can't see working well at all. Maybe they have something else with the subclasses planned that we have not figured out.

[Laxedrane]

They're against it because they don't want to be wrong and think they're an authority on something that's pure speculation.

I think it's less that and more akin to the saying "They want to have ones cake and eat it too."

[Darki]

So you're saying a Hunter that chooses the tech sub tree will not be able to use these new weapons at all?

Sorry...there are just too many reasons why it doesn't make sense.

It actually makes sense, though I don't see how you don't see it.

A Hunter that chooses the tech sub-class wouldn't be a "pure" Hunter anymore. It would be a hybrid. so to "hybridize" itself it would sacrifice some of the weapons and skills that a "pure" HU would use in favor for the new weapons and PAs that the tech sub-class would bring.

Putting it in a chart:

- Hunter + Fighter -> Highest melee proficiency
- Hunter + Gunner/Techer -> average melee proficiency + secondary proficiency
- Force/Ranger + Fighter -> secondary melee proficiency + primary proficiency

What wouldn't make sense to me would be what you seem to think that makes sense. What would be then a Hunter + Techer for you? A Hunter that can use all melee skills and weapons, PLUS techs? Who would then be a pure hunter? it would be almost like what crapped PSU class system, giving hybrids random weapons and PAs.

Also, you're assuming that the new weapons will be all tied to the sub-classes, but we don't really know this. It might be possible that they're going to make it a different way, for example making some current weapons part of the sub-class system too, like Talis (giving it too to any non-FO that chooses techer as a sub-class) or Gunslash (giving proper associated talents to whoever chooses the Fighter sub-class), or giving some of the new weapons to HU and leaving only one as sub-class weps (my bet would be Double Sabers).

I see they doing something complicated like this.

[Geistritter]

I think it's less that and more akin to the saying "They want to have ones cake and eat it too."

They're being kind of obnoxious regardless. It's hard to have a discussion when the other person's response to absolutely everything is "Sorry, you're wrong. No, I have nothing more than one sentence to support this."

[ScottyMango]

I agree with this being the one odd point in the subclass idea where a force fighter can't use the other 3 types of techs or a hunter gunner that can't is any of the new close range weapons. But it seems more feasible then 3 whole new classes which I just can't see working well at all. Maybe they have something else with the subclasses planned that we have not figured out.

Nobody knows exactly how it's going to work yet, this is speculation. Things that may seem 'odd' now could be revealed as something very simple in the future.

Maybe it will allow you to use all those techs/weapons, but with lower stats than if it were your primary class. Kind of like how HUmars in PSO1 could use spells, but only up to level 15.

[Zipzo]

They're against it because they don't want to be wrong and think they're an authority on something that's pure speculation.That's rather presumptuous of you.

Quote me where I'm claiming to be an authority on the subject, or where I told anyone in this thread they were wrong. Your point doesn't become more valid by acting like a moron, try a different approach.

According to a few people in this thread, it *isn't* speculation. It's just a certainty waiting to happen, and I don't see it as so certain, and the incoming weapons and the current skill point trees just tell me a story that differs from what you all seem to want.


Why would you prefer that it's just an upgrade, and doesn't allow subclasses? How is that somehow preferable to being able to choose between an upgraded super hunter, or an awesome force hunter... aka Wartecher, as this has been going on in PS for the majority of their latest games.AKA one specific series, Phantasy Star Universe. Seeing as how this isn't Phantasy Star Universe I'd say it's anyone's guess.

My opinion on the matter? I don't care. I'm only calling it as I see it. It's not about what I want, they could do either and I wouldn't be phased in the slightest.

It all goes back to everyone simply ignoring the fact that Sakai made the announcement under the format of saying "3 new classes". He didn't say sub-classes. He didn't say that everyone could stack on an extra layer of any of the 3 classes to their current class. He said there will be 3 new classes.

If I'm to postulate a means for which hybrids are entering the game, then these will just be 3 brand new classes that you will have the ability to switch to via the counter...but then that doesn't really explain how any of the 3 basic classes will get to use any of the new weapons...giving people no choice but switch. Hence...why I believe these will just be a new "tier" to our current class, opening up the weapon options, and providing an extension to our current skill trees to facilitate said new weapons in a few ways (or maybe a variety of other skills to put points in, who knows).

[Kazlan]

I realize it is speculation I meant if sub classes were the case maybe there would be some other alterations included.

What Draki said makes the most sense to me I would second what he has suggested.

[ScottyMango]

but then that doesn't really explain how any of the 3 basic classes will get to use any of the new weapons...giving people no choice but switch. Hence...why I believe these will just be a new "tier" to our current class, opening up the weapon options, and providing an extension to our current skill trees to facilitate said new weapons in a few ways (or maybe a variety of other skills to put points in, who knows).

You've asked a question, then explained it yourself. If you choose Fighter as a Hunter, it is a new 'tier', exactly as you described. However, maybe you don't want to be full-on mega hunter. Then you pick Techer, and now rather than being second-tier hunter powerful, you have a split of Hunter and Force powers.

[Zipzo]

You've asked a question, then explained it yourself. If you choose Fighter as a Hunter, it is a new 'tier', exactly as you described. However, maybe you don't want to be full-on mega hunter. Then you pick Techer, and now rather than being second-tier hunter powerful, you have a split of Hunter and Force powers.You're again ignoring the specificity of the words "3 new classes". Your idea permits ~9 new classes. Not 3. It would also be eclipsing the current 3 (because hunter/hunter). That's pretty much the crux of my argument among other things.

[ScottyMango]

Fighter

Techer

Gunner

Those are three new classes. Nobody from Sega ever stated how these three new classes will be used, but it's pretty much a given that they'll be used in conjunction with the original classes.

[Zipzo]

Fighter

Techer

Gunner

Those are three new classes. Nobody from Sega ever stated how these three new classes will be used, but it's pretty much a given that they'll be used in conjunction with the original classes.
The names themselves speak for my point! A Hunter will become a Fighter. A Force will become a Techer. A Ranger will become a Gunner. You're all wondering why I can't drink the kool-aid on this hybrid idea, yet I'm here wondering how none of you understand how my vision of it is quite logical.

[NoiseHERO]

Speculation arguments...

Argue endlessly till the facts come up!

Whose going to look like a stubborn idiot at the end of this!?

Find out 2 months from now!

[ScottyMango]

The names themselves speak for my point! A Hunter will become a Fighter. A Force will become a Techer. A Ranger will become a Gunner. You're all wondering why I can't drink the kool-aid on this hybrid idea, yet I'm here wondering how none of you understand how my vision of it is quite logical.

Yes... and all the evidence shows that you'll also be able to pick an alternative class, rather than second-tier Hunter/Ranger/Force

Why are you so against that? This whole argument seems like you just really don't want hybrid classes, rather than any real logical points against it.

[Kazlan]

The names themselves speak for my point! A Hunter will become a Fighter. A Force will become a Techer. A Ranger will become a Gunner. You're all wondering why I can't drink the kool-aid on this hybrid idea, yet I'm here wondering how none of you understand how my vision of it is quite logical.

Aside from what it actually is, if this is the case wouldn't that be disappointing? Because just upgrading the current classes doesn't really change anything. They could just add to the current class names and accomplish the exact same thing.

[Jakosifer]

I think one thing we can all agree on is that once these classes are released we will see thousands of lowbies for the following month. People just love to jump on the new stuff.

And yes, this topic right here... Hell, this community...

[Kondibon]

You're again ignoring the specificity of the words "3 new classes". Your idea permits ~9 new game play experiences. Not 3. That's pretty much the crux of my argument among other things.You're mixing classes with class combinations. Nine different ways to organize the classes doesn't mean they'd be adding 9 whole new classes. Even assuming it's a sub class system only 3 classes would be added and thus new, the combinations them selves aren't classes anymore than the class/race/gender categories are. Hunter+techer would be hunter+techer, not wartecher or it's own class, just two classes being used at once.

Sure he didn't say they're subclasses, or anything of the sort, but he also never said they AREN'T, that's too vague to supports either of our points. I only came to the conclusion that it would be subclasses based on things I've seen IN GAME already, not just the info mining or things Sakai has said.

[Zipzo]

Yes... and all the evidence shows that you'll also be able to pick an alternative class, rather than second-tier Hunter/Ranger/Force

Why are you so against that? This whole argument seems like you just really don't want hybrid classes, when all it would do is add variety.
I don't see any evidence.

I've seen people mention an ominous space in the interface where they believe the sub-class will go, when it could be anything.

Personally, I think it's better for different classes to be subject to the weaknesses of the role they chose. If you picked hunter, well you have to learn to be good in melee range and you rely on ranged classes to back you. If you pick a Ranger you need to acquaint yourself with positioning and maximize your damage. If you're a force, support your party and at all costs watch your positioning, damage inbetween.

Hybrid classes (such as the ones in PSU) generally eliminate this structure, and turn grouping essentially in to a wave after wave of kill without care-fest.

[ScottyMango]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't EVERY PS game since PSO allowed you to have some amount of skill in another class's forte? Out of all the PS games I've played, PSO2 is the first to offer completely bare-bones Hunter/Ranger/Force classes.

In PSO, a HUmar could use almost any tech (aside from Grantz or Megid) up to level 15. That's how I imagine this working.

To me, it only makes sense that they're going to allow you to have secondary power in another class. However, upgrading your skill tree and calling it a 'new class' makes no sense whatsoever.


Aside from what it actually is, if this is the case wouldn't that be disappointing? Because just upgrading the current classes doesn't really change anything. They could just add to the current class names and accomplish the exact same thing.

^ exactly this.

[Icecold]

Check out what Sakai said:


http://bumped.org/psublog/phantasy-star-producer-satoshi-sakai-addresses-his-foreign-fans/

As for showing Datamined info. Subclass icon here, look around the bottom right area, above our current class icon (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12804628/PSO2/PSO2%20Icons/Texture/pso2_closebeta_ui_appearance.png).
Current weapon data also mention them. As in "Can Fighter / Gunner/ Techer equip this?"

This to me sounds like they are adding 2 weapons that can be equipped across all classes like the gunslash. That's pretty rad. :P I like the idea of subclasses, so I hope that's what we get. Should be fun :D

Ok so Vash's powers to quote something from a url astound me and it didn't show up right when I quoted him lol. I also appearantly fail at reading. *sigh* I'm not sure what he means anymore about 2 classes uses the weapons...

[Kondibon]

(such as the ones in PSU)You keep bringing up PSU, but I've seen people mention several times that in the original PSO HUmar, RAmarl, HUnewrl, were capable of limited tech use, while casts were the only ones who could use traps, etc. Hybrid classes or a subclass system would bring some of that back without limiting it to race/gender is all.

EDIT: Ninja'd. I am a slow typist.

[ScottyMango]

Exactly. It's always been there. Hunters could always use some amount of guns, Rangers could always use some amount of swords, etc etc.

This just looks like they're fleshing out the idea they've been rolling with forever now.

[Laxedrane]

I don't see any evidence.

I've seen people mention an ominous space in the interface where they believe the sub-class will go, when it could be anything.

Personally, I think it's better for different classes to be subject to the weaknesses of the role they chose. If you picked hunter, well you have to learn to be good in melee range and you rely on ranged classes to back you. If you pick a Ranger you need to acquaint yourself with positioning and maximize your damage. If you're a force, support your party and at all costs watch your positioning, damage inbetween.

Hybrid classes (such as the ones in PSU) generally eliminate this structure, and turn grouping essentially in to a wave after wave of kill without care-fest.

The carefree-ness of PSU wasn't becuase of the class structure. It was becuase of the item structure and to some degree the way they made guns and force weapons. Imagine just for 1 second if they made PSU like this game, and you didn't have scape dolls. Hell imagine if they capped it at just 1 scape doll? It be a much different atmosphere. On top of which just imagine if they upped regeneration rate of guns and rods a pinch then completely eliminated photon charges?

The game would feel and play completely differently, the ease of the game would be gone and the carefree feeling would melt away. Don't get me wrong the type system wasn't perfect in psu, but you cannot convince me it was what gave psu that Sunday school massacre feeling.

[NoiseHERO]

I think one thing we can all agree on is that once these classes are released we will see thousands of lowbies for the following month. People just love to jump on the new stuff.

And yes, this topic right here... Hell, this community...

They'll either have to play a different class on the same character (and maybe even do a quest or two to unlock it) and end up level 1.

Or if it IS a completely new class and they end up level 1.

[Saffran]

As for showing Datamined info. Subclass icon here, look around the bottom right area, above our current class icon (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12804628/PSO2/PSO2%20Icons/Texture/pso2_closebeta_ui_appearance.png).

Sorry, but I don't see anything there that could correspond to what you're saying. Which icons are you meaning?

[GoldenFalcon]

Sakai would not say they are subclasses, because that simply ruins the fun of waiting for the big news.
He also said they are thinking of adding each new weapon type to 2 classes, since they'd be adding overlap to help create the system that was in PSO. The comment that each class will continue to use gunslash does not explicitly imply that the 3 new classes are main classes either, he's just throwing us off because suddenly subclasses = money thrown at them

My thoughts, is all

[Zipzo]

Sorry, but I don't see anything there that could correspond to what you're saying. Which icons are you meaning?
I had the same curiosity. I see no such class icons above the current ones.

[ScottyMango]

Lol since when have game developers actually ever said exactly how it's going to be, before we get to see it?

It's always hints, and plays on words.

'3 classes' could mean a lot of things. Using the way a developer worded something in an argument or debate is just kind of meaningless.

[Saffran]

Or it could be 3 completely separated new classes. Scientist, Secretary and Shopkeeper for instance. Look at all those NPCs, surely they come from *somewhere*.

[Zipzo]

Lol since when have game developers actually ever said exactly how it's going to be, before we get to see it?

It's always hints, and plays on words.

'3 classes' could mean a lot of things. Using the way a developer worded something in an argument or debate is just kind of meaningless.
So is "That's how they did it in PSU!".

PSO1 honestly is not a relevant mention either. You had 3 versions of each class, a set race with arbitrary restrictions on things, like HUmars only being able to JZ, and RAmars only being able to SD.

The only techniques that ever saw use as a "hybrid" in PSO were Resta, and Rabarta (high freeze rate in big groups). Aside from that the damage was pitiful in comparison to swinging your sword or shooting your gun.

RAmarls and HUnewearls were the closest thing to hybrids in PSO. They could support end game ruins/seabed runs just fine with their SD as long as the player was on top of that. It was just that though, there was no point to them having the ability to cast techs, because the only ones they cast were support ones.

[Kondibon]

Well when you put it like that there's no point in speculating at all. We should probably just wait and hope its not something we ALL hate.

[GoldenFalcon]

Sorry, but I don't see anything there that could correspond to what you're saying. Which icons are you meaning?

I had the same curiosity. I see no such class icons above the current ones.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/Zakon/pso2_closebeta_ui_appearances_subclass.png

[Saffran]

Aren't those related to team creation ? Team Master and Team Lieutenant ?

Edit : aaaah I see. It's the icon when you change class, isn't it ?

[Kondibon]

Aren't those related to team creation ? Team Master and Team Lieutenant ?
Log onto the game. Go to the class counter like you're going to change your class. Look at the icon beside your current class.

[Angelo]

(Force > Super Force, Hunter > Mega Hunter, Ranger > Burning Ranger),

You mean Shining Force, Cyborg Hunter, and Burning Ranger?

C'mon, try harder next time.

[Laxedrane]

So is "That's how they did it in PSU!".

PSO1 honestly is not a relevant mention either. You had 3 versions of each class, a set race with arbitrary restrictions on things, like HUmars only being able to JZ, and RAmars only being able to SD.

The only techniques that ever saw use as a "hybrid" in PSO were Resta, and Rabarta (high freeze rate in big groups). Aside from that the damage was pitiful in comparison to swinging your sword or shooting your gun.

RAmarls and HUnewearls were the closest thing to hybrids in PSO. They could support end game ruins/seabed runs just fine with their SD as long as the player was on top of that. It was just that though, there was no point to them having the ability to cast techs, because the only ones they cast were support ones.

Translation:
You can only speculate within the spectrum of my speculatory line of thought. These are the designated speculating speculation areas.

Now let's talk about pso1 anyways.

In other news: Yes let's talk about how hybrid magic using sucked in a game where magic generally was a sub-par form of damage. While completely ignoring how people often used guns on hunter, partisans swords and katanas on force(At least the humans often did) etc etc

[NoiseHERO]

You mean Shining Force, Cyborg Hunter, and Burning Ranger?

C'mon, try harder next time.

Angelo wins again!

[Kondibon]

You mean Shining Force, Cyborg Hunter, and Burning Ranger?

C'mon, try harder next time.

How could I have been so blind...? This is obvious what's going has to happen!!

[Zipzo]

Translation:
You can only speculate within the spectrum of my speculatory line of thought. These are the designated speculating speculation areas.

Now let's talk about pso1 anyways.

In other news: Yes let's talk about how hybrid magic using sucked in a game where magic generally was a sub-par form of damage. While completely ignoring how people often used guns on hunter, partisans swords and katanas on force(At least the humans often did) etc etcAww cute.

Welcome to PSO-W.

Mechguns were common on hunters for single target damage, usually of the Charge Vulcan variety. Melee forces existed but they were novelty at best, and they definitely did not use katanas. Double sabers were the common place.

[GoldenFalcon]

's going

>:

Why can't these tags be easy

[Kondibon]

>:

Why can't these tags be easy

QQ how fix?

Nevermind, I got it. We can continue bantering.

[GoldenFalcon]

Melee forces existed but they were novelty at best, and they definitely did not use katanas. Double sabers were the common place.

Well

Episode 3
Break was a cool dude

[Laxedrane]

Aww cute.

Welcome to PSO-W.

Mechguns were common on hunters for single target damage, usually of the Charge Vulcan variety. Melee forces existed but they were novelty at best, and they definitely did not use katanas. Double sabers were the common place.

And how does that change my point?

[Zipzo]

And how does that change my point?Your point is invalid because while charge vulcans (usually used on non-legit characters who duped meseta regularly) were great on hunters with 50% hit, melee forces were sub-optimal. TP recovery melee weapons were just fine for forces, but a strictly melee force was not an actual optimal path.

Neither example is a good demonstration of how a hybrid should be.

[GoldenFalcon]

Your point is invalid because while charge vulcans (usually used on non-legit characters who duped meseta regularly) were great on hunters with 50% hit, melee forces were sub-optimal. TP recovery melee weapons were just fine for forces, but a strictly melee force was not an actual optimal path.

Neither example is a good demonstration of how a hybrid should be.

I liked using Chameleon Scythe as a HUmar, to spam Rabarta and Razonde because it was hilarious and funny looking

Wait why are we.. oh right, PSO is a debatable topic while the new classes isn't

[Zipzo]

I liked using Chameleon Scythe as a HUmar, to spam Rabarta and Razonde because it was hilarious and funny looking

Wait why are we.. oh right, PSO is a debatable topic while the new classes isn'tIt's debate-able in the sense that neither party knows 100% for sure what it will be.

[Lostbob117]

Just pointing out this is kinda pointless, you know? No one is really 100% sure and you guys are debating about something no one knows about, but the game makers.

[Kondibon]

I agree with Bob, It's fun to speculate but if no one agrees it kinda devolves into people stating their opinions over and over. I probably shouldn't have said anything before and saved us all the time.

[Lostbob117]

I agree with Bob, It's fun to speculate but if no one agrees it kinda devolves into people stating their opinions over and over. I probably shouldn't have said anything before and saved us all the time.

It's fun until... you notice you've been debating repeating yourself for 14pages when you could be playing "Phantasy Star Online 2".

[Darki]

You're again ignoring the specificity of the words "3 new classes". Your idea permits ~9 new classes. Not 3. It would also be eclipsing the current 3 (because hunter/hunter). That's pretty much the crux of my argument among other things.

I don't agree with you. I could perfectly say then that your suggestion wouldn't even make up 3 whole classes, because they're just a weapon mastery and skill tree expansion. They wouldn't be "new classes".

Also, another point that makes me consider your argument wrong I hinted it previously is the fact that they're adding just 5 weapons, that makes up roughtly between 1 and 3 weapons for each class. Are you seriously telling me that they're going to add "new classes" in that style everytime they're adding new weapons? Why bothering with it? Fuck, it would be much easier just to pop the new skilltrees into the current classes, and give a free skill reset. If they follow the trend of the crapload of weapon types that this series had previoulsy, they'll run out of cheesy names to call the "expansions" very quickly. How will they call it then when they add shotguns, slicers and canes (for example)? "brawler", "Sniper" and "Caster"? I'd accept your argument if they were going to release lots of weapons in that patch, but as it is the idea is ridiculous.

And if they weren't planning on adding many weapon categories, well, that would make fans very angry. I'm sure as hell I would with only 4 weapon types in my caracter. And considering that this game seems to be a PSO nostalgia 'tard trap, I bet many of them would rage over the lack of katanas and spread needles.

[Arika]

This thread has amused me of how people in here care so much to debate of "Who is right" and "Who is wrong" when there is no possible way to learn who is right or wrong at this point at all. So it is gonna be endless with no any side to win until 1-2 months later when the patch released. What is the point to try to make other people believe in something that is actually no evidence yet? and what could be gained from doing this?

Should have just put this into time capsule and wait until the actual announcement. Then bump this up to see whose idea is correct.

[GoldenFalcon]

Should have just put this into time capsule and wait until the actual announcement. Then bump this up to see whose idea is correct.

Yes, I vote for this thread to be locked so that we may look back on it without the hindrance of possible edits

[ShilohSham]

Eh, really as much fun as tinfoil hat debates are, there so much they could do that it not even funny so saying one is right or one is wrong! Is just plain out silly.:D

heck they could be Upgrades of the current classes, but no one will know till fall.:-?

they could be sub classes sure but just the same we don't know.:-?

heck my theory on the Healer being one is just that a THEORY:-o

like bob said we don't know we won't know so there no point in reposting topic/threads like this every other weekday

[Saffran]

I'm still betting on Scientist, Secretary and Shopkeeper though. Come on, it's gotta be this! How do you explain the NPCs in town otherwise?

[GoldenFalcon]

I'm still betting on Scientist, Secretary and Shopkeeper though. Come on, it's gotta be this! How do you explain the NPCs in town otherwise?

They have no classes or stats, sadly
So disabled that they cannot even move..

[gigawuts]

Is this where you went to post very angrily after I gave you that list you kept asking for in another thread?

I guess you couldn't post angrily anymore when I gave you exactly what you asked for and realized there was nothing you could argue about anymore.

[Zipzo]

Is this where you went to post very angrily after I gave you that list you kept asking for in another thread?

I guess you couldn't post angrily anymore when I gave you exactly what you asked for and realized there was nothing you could argue about anymore.
This thread is almost a planet away in relevance to the topic of the other thread. Are you trolling or are you really just this mega-retarded? Don't derail the thread.

[GoldenFalcon]

Don't derail the thread.

You want this to keep going?

[gigawuts]

This thread is almost a planet away in relevance to the topic of the other thread. Are you trolling or are you really just this mega-retarded? Don't derail the thread.

And my point is made for me.

You could really stand to relax, man. You're getting concerningly riled up over something as silly as unannounced classes in a game.

[GoldenFalcon]

Is this where you went to post very angrily after I gave you that list you kept asking for in another thread?

I guess you couldn't post angrily anymore when I gave you exactly what you asked for and realized there was nothing you could argue about anymore.

Just wondering, what list?

[gigawuts]

He and someone else kept demanding a list of things the original PSO did better than PSO2, because apparently PSO2 is infallible.

So I wrote something up off the top of my head and suddenly they scattered.

[Zipzo]

He and someone else kept demanding a list of things the original PSO did better than PSO2, because apparently PSO2 is infallible.

So I wrote something up off the top of my head and suddenly they scattered.No you didn't. You didn't provide anything. You're just pretentious.

Also, telling people to relax in an argument is derailment in and of itself, and just shows that you're uncomfortable. You have no means for which to observe that I am or am not "relaxed" while typing my posts. So get over yourself.

[GoldenFalcon]

Well, if the point is like.. HUmar vs. HUnewearl vs. HUcast being a good thing, then like, subclasses lets any race and gender play those 'styles' of combat

[gigawuts]

I provided plenty. You just didn't want to read that PSO2 is anything but the best thing since sliced whatever.

Yeah, I get uncomfortable when people are seethingly angry over just the silliest, most tedious shit in the world.

Seriously. Chillax. No need to jump down everyone's throats for disagreeing with you. Telling me to "get over myself" when I say to stop being so darn angry? Really? Have you even read your own posts?

[Zipzo]

Well, if the point is like.. HUmar vs. HUnewearl vs. HUcast being a good thing, then like, subclasses lets any race and gender play those 'styles' of combatOnly if you roll the correct race though...

[GoldenFalcon]

Only if you roll the correct race though...

No, that's minor stat differences, not gameplay. Which PSO made unchangeable

[Zipzo]

I provided plenty. You just didn't want to read that PSO2 is anything but the best thing since sliced whatever.

Yeah, I get uncomfortable when people are seethingly angry over just the silliest, most tedious shit in the world.

Seriously. Chillax. No need to jump down everyone's throats for disagreeing with you. Telling me to "get over myself" when I say to stop being so darn angry? Really? Have you even read your own posts?I honestly get bored of reading your posts because they are pointless, and lack anything close to an intelligent thought. I don't even think I bothered to read anything past my final post in that thread, so whether you did or did not post anything is of no concern to me, I doubt I'm missing out.

Why would you tell someone to chillax over the internet? Do you think you're accomplishing some sort of counselor-esque feat? You should read this...http://peacefulplanetcommunication.com/2010/05/27/calm-down/

It may be of use to you in the future, so you don't look like such a tool.

[gigawuts]

The original PSO tied subclasses to race and gender. This game ties minor stat variances to race and gender, in a virtually nonexistent way. At this point the only notable gap is HP and T-ATK on casts vs. newearls. Classes can be changed on a whim. Subclasses or extra classes will almost certainly add hybrid-ish levels of play.

If not now, then later. Whatever they add now will not be the last expansion on classes they ever add for all eternity. Being a F2P game, they direly need to keep the content and the interest going. This is demonstrated again and again in past F2P games. Sure, there's always a crowd, but they aren't always paying and they certainly aren't always the same people.



I honestly get bored of reading your posts because they are pointless, and lack anything close to an intelligent thought. I don't even think I bothered to read anything past my final post in that thread, so whether you did or did not post anything is of no concern to me, I doubt I'm missing out.

Why would you tell someone to chillax over the internet? Do you think you're accomplishing some sort of counselor-esque feat? You should read this...http://peacefulplanetcommunication.com/2010/05/27/calm-down/

It may be of use to you in the future, so you don't look like such a tool.

You caught me I'm a guidance counselor good guess.

You really need to chill out bro.

[GoldenFalcon]

Why would you tell someone to chillax over the internet? Do you think you're accomplishing some sort of counselor-esque feat? You should read this...http://peacefulplanetcommunication.com/2010/05/27/calm-down/

It may be of use to you in the future, so you don't look like such a tool.

I usually tell people to calm down because I'm an ass, but some of what they have in that article was informative for me still

[Zipzo]

You caught me I'm a guidance counselor good guess.

You really need to chill out bro.Trolololol.

Post something constructive or don't post at all.

[gigawuts]

Trolololol.

Post something constructive or don't post at all.

That's what I mean. That's a very angry way to go about life. That's bad for your health man. You'll get an ulcer being like that all the time.

[GoldenFalcon]

Why are both of you "Skilled Fighter"s?
I just noticed, sorry

[gigawuts]

I don't know, probably our post counts. Ha ha ha, I made a lot of posts in not a lot of time.

edit: To indulge Zipzo, can you compile the evidence you have into one concise list so that I may see it all at once? Unless it's all in the OP, which it can't be.

[Zipzo]

That's what I mean. That's a very angry way to go about life. That's bad for your health man. You'll get an ulcer being like that all the time.It's amazing how you've so easily convinced me to utilize the ignore function on this board.

[GoldenFalcon]

I can try to provide more evidence to my idea, if you'd like

[Zipzo]

"Skilled Fighter" is the default profile title of those who don't set a custom one. In the 200s it's "PSO Assassin" for example.

[NoiseHERO]

I think being chilled on the internet (Not taking most of the rubbish on it seriously) makes more sense than "I MAD U ALL DUM" 24-7.

U all still dum though.

[gigawuts]

It's amazing how you've so easily convinced me to utilize the ignore function on this board.

You mean I won't have you reading any of my posts anymore?

What will I ever do without angry people replying to me on PSO-W?

I don't know how I'll manage it, but somehow, some way I'll get past this trial. Some day I'll look back on this moment and go "I did it. I really did it. I survived Zipzo not being able to read any of my posts. I don't know how or why, but in the end I found purpose in life, even despite Zipzo not seeing anything I ever said again. This may have been the hardest thing I've ever had to endure - and I really did it."

I guess I'll never have any evidence that the three new classes are really just the same classes, making them not new at all.

[UnLucky]

oh man this thread is more of a trainwreck than the bikini dlc

[hbmizzle10]

lol i bet u sega employees are having a ball keeping u guys at suspense and speculation. lol they are probably laughing at you all right.....now

[sugarFO]

You mean I won't have you reading any of my posts anymore?

What will I ever do without angry people replying to me on PSO-W?

I don't know how I'll manage it, but somehow, some way I'll get past this trial. Some day I'll look back on this moment and go "I did it. I really did it. I survived Zipzo not being able to read any of my posts. I don't know how or why, but in the end I found purpose in life, even despite Zipzo not seeing anything I ever said again. This may have been the hardest thing I've ever had to endure - and I really did it."

I guess I'll never have any evidence that the three new classes are really just the same classes, making them not new at all.
Lol. I dunno what that guy's issue is. He's freaking out in every thread on this forum.

[Scionni]

Not to pick favorites here but at least Gigawuts raises valid points. Zipzo is just... angry. :I

[Angelo]

Are the new classes and weapons coming in tonight's update?

I forget.

[DemonMike]

Are the new classes and weapons coming in tonight's update?

I forget.

Nah brah, they're due around fall supposedly. I imagine around late September.