That's it, I need battle mode.

[Ark22]

I don't care about the arena style, but I want to be able to run around the level like it's a regular mission while fighting my friends. Why?! Because every time I run the mines, some loser has to hit the bomb and I die instantly. That bomb is not friendly!

Plus, it's like playing SSB with teams + friendly fire on. Makes it more challenging for people. I mean as a Force you wouldn't be able to spam GI or RA attacks unless you are damn sure they won't get hit. Same goes for Ranger and Hunter.

P.S To all the jerks who hit the bombs right next to me......

[SPOILER-BOX]http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4273/imwatchingu.png[/URL][/SPOILER-BOX]

[jooozek]

With this latency you want to play PvP? :-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x

[Priest]

Haha, mirage stepping through bombs FTW. What gets me is when those bombs are on top of crates to the sides, and you can't see them well and they explode ; ;

[Ark22]

With this latency you want to play PvP? :-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x

It wouldn't be that baaad. Ok, maybe alittle, but it would be for fun, not competition.

But there is a lot more reasons why I want battle mode. People leaving me to code attack in caves, getting trapped and no one helps, dead and no one res's (Not glitched either), and a force who would rather attack than do both support and attack....Should of been a ranger for that!

Above all, I just want to kick the entire PSO2 communities ass.

[Macman]

Clearly you need to be the person shooting the bombs, then. :wacko:

Clear them out before getting into the fray.

[Sizustar]

I don't care about the arena style, but I want to be able to run around the level like it's a regular mission while fighting my friends. Why?! Because every time I run the mines, some loser has to hit the bomb and I die instantly. That bomb is not friendly!

Plus, it's like playing SSB with teams + friendly fire on. Makes it more challenging for people. I mean as a Force you wouldn't be able to spam GI or RA attacks unless you are damn sure they won't get hit. Same goes for Ranger and Hunter.

P.S To all the jerks who hit the bombs right next to me......

[SPOILER-BOX]http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4273/imwatchingu.png[/URL][/SPOILER-BOX]

Sakai have said, a PVP mode is likely, depending on reaction of PSO2 at G-Star, and if they make a Korean version, as that's a feature that the Korean Market would like, and would be brought back to the Japanese PSO2, but there is no current plan for a PVP feature, as it's not one that the Japanese player are interested in.

[gigawuts]

rofl "this latency"

[Ark22]

Sakai have said, a PVP mode is likely, depending on reaction of PSO2 at G-Star, and if they make a Korean version, as that's a feature that the Korean Market would like, and would be brought back to the Japanese PSO2, but there is no current plan for a PVP feature, as it's not one that the Japanese player are interested in.

I heard that awhile back. But thanks for that. I don't even want full fledged PVP. I just want to run around the MPA, and snipe people with Foie. Now that I think about it, it sounds really fun.

[Angelo]

Sakai have said, a PVP mode is likely, depending on reaction of PSO2 at G-Star, and if they make a Korean version, as that's a feature that the Korean Market would like, and would be brought back to the Japanese PSO2, but there is no current plan for a PVP feature, as it's not one that the Japanese player are interested in.

What he said.

Considering that PvP is a high priority for Korean players and the average American online game player, it's most likely going to be considered before an international release.

...and as I've said before, Korea actually got an official Korean-language version of the game shown at G-star, which is much more than we've got so far.

[Dammy]

Why?! Because every time I run the mines, some loser has to hit the bomb and I die instantly.

in this situation loser is you

P.S. another self-centered american

[gigawuts]

How to not die to bombs in mines

1. don't go near them
2. assume every single person wants to blow up the bombs as soon as you do go near them

[Malifaux]

I hope there's Challenge Mode again some day. *_*

[Ark22]

in this situation loser is you

P.S. another self-centered american

*Adds to list* done annddd done.

Dood, I am not really all that worked up, and no where near self-centered. I really wouldn't mind battle mode for fun. And yeah I know how to avoid bombs but when I do get hit, it sorta sucks, I mean being a force and all, basically one shots me. But there are those times when I put my guy on auto run to check my phone for texts and next thing I hear an explosion and die.



I hope there's Challenge Mode again some day. *_*

This.

[sugarFO]

And yeah I know how to avoid bombs but when I do get hit, it sorta sucks, I mean being a force and all, basically one shots me.

You should look for armor units that add HP.

[Garnet_Moon]

I want a mode which lets us live the hard, rough, ill-fated life of the gunship pilots... we make fun of them, but I bet they did something totally badass just before they crashed...

[BIG OLAF]

P.S. another self-centered american

Another douchebag.


I want a mode which lets us live the hard, rough, ill-fated life of the gunship pilots... we make fun of them, but I bet they did something totally badass just before they crashed...

I saw Dinal fly into some building once during an Urban Recovery mission. They deserve to be mocked, don't you worry.

[Ark22]

I want a mode which lets us live the hard, rough, ill-fated life of the gunship pilots... we make fun of them, but I bet they did something totally badass just before they crashed...

THE NEW ANTI-CLIMATIC SEGA MINI GAME! SHIPU FIGHTER CRASHU

Probably fought a Ragne before they crashed next to us.

On a side note:

And I guess Rock was right about the grimy posts lately.

[jooozek]

rofl "this latency"

What, are you saying there is no latency? Time to drop dissociatives ^^;

[Laxedrane]

I want a mode which lets us live the hard, rough, ill-fated life of the gunship pilots... we make fun of them, but I bet they did something totally badass just before they crashed...

I have a hard time sympathizing with them when that dude crashed on me. Did his repairs goes to fly away THEN CRASH LANDS ON TOP OF MY CHARACTER AGAIN.

GET RIGHT THE FIRST TIME ASS!

[BIG OLAF]

What, are you saying there is no latency? Time to drop dissociatives ^^;

I never get any latency when I play, barring when there's server lag. But, apparently, certain countries experience worse latency than others, according to some people I've spoken to about it. Not sure myself.

[Daiyousei]

I want a mode which lets us live the hard, rough, ill-fated life of the gunship pilots... we make fun of them, but I bet they did something totally badass just before they crashed...

That badass thing being firing missiles in support, not even caring that we're down there on the ground as well.

[Ark22]

Lol I could totally see the Gunship pilot as a COD style killstreak. Kill 3 people, he will back you up, get 6 he will crash into people.

[Zyrusticae]

Considering that PvP is a high priority for Korean players and the average American online game player
I'm sorry, what is this?

Every time someone says this, I have to say [citation needed].

I have one. (http://www.mmorpg.com/features.cfm/view/polls) It contradicts your assertion.


PvP - 5.7%
PvE - 15.3%
PvP focus with a little PvE - 10.9%
PvE focus with a little PvP - 32.7%
Equal Parts PvE and PvP - 35.4%

Total votes: 14135


Then there is, of course, the fact that Aion has been catering heavily to PvE-ers lately (despite being billed at the start as a PvPvE game and being (in)famous for open-world (some people see this as synonymous with "forced") PvP)... and it is a Korean MMO. The biggest, most-played Korean MMO. Apparently Koreans like fair play (re: Starcraft, which is quite well-balanced and obviously does not suffer from competition being tainted by enormous stat differences) a lot more than they do horribly random stat-based PvP. Who knew? :-P

[Macman]

I never get any latency when I play, barring when there's server lag. But, apparently, certain countries experience worse latency than others, according to some people I've spoken to about it. Not sure myself.
It's all fine and dandy when you see your damage numbers pop up immediately against monsters, but there's a LOT of rubberbanding around when it comes to player-to-player interaction. They'll have to tweak the netcode a bit before it becomes acceptable in an actual PvP environment.

[Mystil]

Well, the only true PVP game out as far as I know is the flop game Aion.


in this situation loser is you

P.S. another self-centered american

You will be sadly disappointed if you think americans are the only country in the world that houses self-centered people. You foreigners aren't angels either.

[Angelo]

I'm sorry, what is this?

Every time someone says this, I have to say [citation needed].

I have one. (http://www.mmorpg.com/features.cfm/view/polls) It contradicts your assertion.



Then there is, of course, the fact that Aion has been catering heavily to PvE-ers lately (despite being billed at the start as a PvPvE game and being (in)famous for open-world (some people see this as synonymous with "forced") PvP)... and it is a Korean MMO. The biggest, most-played Korean MMO. Apparently Koreans like fair play (re: Starcraft, which is quite well-balanced and obviously does not suffer from competition being tainted by enormous stat differences) a lot more than they do horribly random stat-based PvP. Who knew? :-P

I said online game players, not MMO players.

The action-style and TPS mode of PSO is going to attract a different crowd than your average WoW-head.

For some anecdotal evidence, the 3 casual gamers I showed this game off to basically said "Dude, that looks SICK! What's the Deathmatch like?"

The other action-oriented game I can think of, TERA, is heavily focused on PvP in both the Eastern and Western version, but as I've stated before, PSO2 isn't an MMO.

If you want to compare MMOs...Battlegrounds in WoW is also a big one, and that kind of instanced PvP team v team scenario is most like what PSO2's PvP will be like if PSPortable's PvP is any indication.

That poll you posted actually supports my claim. The results state that people like a balance of both, or that PvP should at least be included to some degree. PSO players that oppose PvP all have this strange knee-jerk reaction that makes the assumption that those in support of PvP expect the developers to push all resources towards making the game PvP centric, when in reality we want it to be an option like Lobby Soccer, or C-Mode.

A feature doesn't have to have the sway of the majority (+50%) in order for it to be viably profitable. If that were the case then they would never add new classes, since the very idea caters to a minority, literally. As long as a healthy chunk of the playerbase wants a feature, it will be on the table, and if that poll you posted rings true in any sense it would mean that 84.7% of everyone in that poll is in favor of PvP being a part of the experience.

The extremes would be the 1st, 3rd, and 6th options on that poll who as a collective of 52% believe that PvP is either just as important or more important as PvE content. That is higher than the percentage of people that would play a new class seriously (high level or cap) in an MMO.

I'd also like to thank you for citing evidence for me so I didn't have to.

[Polly]

Me and my friends actively troll one another with bombs.

Makes for some damn good times. I also like lighting myself on fire and spreading the love before the force or someone with Sols can heal it.

A whole new mini-game inside the game!

[Briss]

Me and my friends actively troll one another with bombs.

Makes for some damn good times. I also like lighting myself on fire and spreading the love before the force or someone with Sols can heal it.

A whole new mini-game inside the game!

I even go a step farther and count and announce my overall killcount in allchat everytime it gets an +1.

[Kanore]

pvp in online rpgs is awful

[Angelo]

pvp in online rpgs is AWESOME


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnmh96igxcs

[Xaeris]

That poll you posted actually supports my claim. The results state that people like a balance of both, or that PvP should at least be included to some degree. PSO players that oppose PvP all have this strange knee-jerk reaction that makes the assumption that those in support of PvP expect the developers to push all resources towards making the game PvP centric, when in reality we want it to be an option like Lobby Soccer, or C-Mode.


Your claim was that PvP is a high priority for the average online American gamer. That poll does not support that claim. You can perhaps use it to to argue that PvP would be a worthwhile venture, but what Zyrusticae was objecting to was your assertion that PvP is a priority. It would take a curious definition of priority to spin that poll in that assertion's favor.

[Angelo]

Your claim was that PvP is a high priority for the average online American gamer. That poll does not support that claim. You can perhaps use it to to argue that PvP would be a worthwhile venture, but what Zyrusticae was objecting to was your assertion that PvP is a priority. It would take a curious definition of priority to spin that poll in that assertion's favor.

A curious definition? A priority is a priority, you can try and spin that to fit your agenda if you'd like. If we're going to use that one poll as evidence then I'd say believing something is of equal or greater value in comparison to the bread and butter of the game (PvE) is certainly a high priority. Let's turn this primal and say that in place of that poll PvP was replaced with 'Fame' and PvE was replaced with 'Wealth'. with 52% believing Fame is either just as important or more important than wealth makes it a high priority. It doesn't mean they can't co-exist as features.

PvP is undoubtedly important to the online American gamer, you just have to glance at the mainstream to see that's evident in games that revolve highly around pitting teams against one another.

[Gama]

i think pvp would be nice only for one reason. stress release, honestly being an arks member is very stressfull, we must spar with each other to feel better.

[Ark22]

Me and my friends actively troll one another with bombs.

Makes for some damn good times. I also like lighting myself on fire and spreading the love before the force or someone with Sols can heal it.

A whole new mini-game inside the game!

Added to my list to kill.

So far I have Dammy and Polly. Anyone else?

And for the last time people, stop thinking competitively!!!! This is PSO2, I am pretty sure when they added battle mode in PSO they did it for laughs and giggles. I mean wouldn't be fun to play a 12 Free for all in a HUGE MPA?!

[Xaeris]

A curious definition? A priority is a priority, you can try and spin that to fit your agenda if you'd like. If we're going to use that one poll as evidence then I'd say believing something is of equal or greater value in comparison to the bread and butter of the game (PvP) is certainly a high priority. Let's turn this primal and say that in place of that poll PvP was replaced with 'Fame' and PvE was replaced with 'Wealth'. with 52% believing Fame is either just as important or as important as wealth makes it a high priority. It doesn't mean they can't co-exist as features.

PvP is undoubtedly important to the online American gamer, you just have to glance at the mainstream to see that's evident in games that revolve highly around pitting teams against one another.

I've got no pony in this race. I just object to bad arguments presented as smug stratagem. Instead of trying to spin that one to your favor, it would have been leagues smarter to counter with one of the other PvP polls on that list.

[Angelo]

I've got no pony in this race. I just object to bad arguments presented as smug stratagem. Instead of trying to spin that one to your favor, it would have been leagues smarter to counter with one of the other PvP polls on that list.

But why would I need to find another poll when that poll states that 52% of those surveyed find PvP to be at the very least just as important as PvE... it's not spinning anything it's just adding numbers...

Honestly, I was just refuting the idea that that poll in any way claimed that PvP was not a priority to those partaking in the poll.

You don't need to have a 'pony in the race' to see that the logic was flawed. It was like showing footage of a car accident to prove that everyone is a safe driver.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

friendly fire in a cross burst?

oh nnnnnnoooooooooooo, cross burst wouldn't last for 10 seconds before you die.

[Ark22]

friendly fire in a cross burst?

oh nnnnnnoooooooooooo, cross burst wouldn't last for 10 seconds before you die.

Lmao *12 players all in one area*.....CROSS BURSTU...*summons upon Techs, weak bullets, AOE PA'S and launcher spam*.....*everyone dies* BUUURRSSTT FINISHED!

Oh God.....THIS MUST HAPPEN! Calling Sega.

[Zyrusticae]

A curious definition? A priority is a priority, you can try and spin that to fit your agenda if you'd like. If we're going to use that one poll as evidence then I'd say believing something is of equal or greater value in comparison to the bread and butter of the game (PvP) is certainly a high priority. Let's turn this primal and say that in place of that poll PvP was replaced with 'Fame' and PvE was replaced with 'Wealth'. with 52% believing Fame is either just as important or as important as wealth makes it a high priority. It doesn't mean they can't co-exist as features.
I would say 83.4% of respondants is definitely much closer to the "average online American gamer" than 52%, which was my point.

You can say "PvP is important enough to enough people to be worth pursuing", but speaking for the "average" is just hubris. Especially when you, most likely, are among the "hardcore" demographic, NOT the "average" (especially given the hurdles that must be jumped to play on a JP version of the game).



PvP is undoubtedly important to the online American gamer, you just have to glance at the mainstream to see that's evident in games that revolve highly around pitting teams against one another.
See, you might notice something about popular PvP games in the USA: they're all fair (or at least close enough to it). I would venture to guess that a lot of players have begun to realize how completely unfair PvP in any online RPG is when at least half of the outcome is determined entirely by stats and the other half by class, hence the massive drop-off in players for any MMORPG with an open-world PvP component.

Of course, for some players this appeals - namely players with a lot of time but not that much skill who can compensate for said lack of skill through massive level and equipment advantages. As these players play almost entirely for the schadenfreude inherent in stomping on players who have absolutely no chance to fight back, I can't say I miss their absence. At all.

The rest are too smart to waste their time on games like this, and instead play fighting games and shooters and, yes, even MOBAs like League of Legends, where their skill and ability to work as a team are actually the biggest factors in how battles play out. Players even started leaving the newer Call of Duty games after getting stomped by players with ridiculous perk combinations and kill streak rewards (fun fact: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare is STILL the most-played out of all the Call of Duty games, with CoD 2 close behind).

I will just note that I would actually be in favor of some kind of PvP mode if it set everyone to have the exact same stats, as then there would actually be some level of fairness to the competition. Otherwise, it's just another case of "guy with lots of time beats guy with less time" like every other RPG with PvP, except in this case there's also lots of luck involved thanks to the RNG...

[Angelo]

I would say 83.4% of respondants is definitely much closer to the "average online American gamer" than 52%, which was my point.

You can say "PvP is important enough to enough people to be worth pursuing", but speaking for the "average" is just hubris. Especially when you, most likely, are among the "hardcore" demographic, NOT the "average" (especially given the hurdles that must be jumped to play on a JP version of the game).


See, you might notice something about popular PvP games in the USA: they're all fair (or at least close enough to it). I would venture to guess that a lot of players have begun to realize how completely unfair PvP in any online RPG is when at least half of the outcome is determined entirely by stats and the other half by class, hence the massive drop-off in players for any MMORPG with an open-world PvP component.

Of course, for some players this appeals - namely players with a lot of time but not that much skill who can compensate for said lack of skill through massive level and equipment advantages. As these players play almost entirely for the schadenfreude inherent in stomping on players who have absolutely no chance to fight back, I can't say I miss their absence. At all.

The rest are too smart to waste their time on games like this, and instead play fighting games and shooters and, yes, even MOBAs like League of Legends, where their skill and ability to work as a team are actually the biggest factors in how battles play out. Players even started leaving the newer Call of Duty games after getting stomped by players with ridiculous perk combinations and kill streak rewards (fun fact: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare is STILL the most-played out of all the Call of Duty games, with CoD 2 close behind).

I will just note that I would actually be in favor of some kind of PvP mode if it set everyone to have the exact same stats, as then there would actually be some level of fairness to the competition. Otherwise, it's just another case of "guy with lots of time beats guy with less time" like every other RPG with PvP, except in this case there's also lots of luck involved thanks to the RNG...

You raise some good points. The fact of the matter is that we have no idea how fair or unfair the result of players pitted against other players will be. I'm not even saying that it's a good idea, or fair, though I'd like it to be. I'm just saying that I'd like the option and that there is definitely a market for it here.

The thing is, I think when most people think "PvP=kill all players" it turns them off.
PSPortable2's PvP awarded points for things like killing large monsters, claiming capture points, and defending/destroying bases. So even if your character isn't completely tailored for killing another player, their utility may prove to be more dynamic in another role. Traps, techs, blocks, stuns, sneaking, throwing PAs, etc could serve a better purpose in those kind of team scenarios than just brutally killing anything with a face that moves.

[Polly]

I even go a step farther and count and announce my overall killcount in allchat everytime it gets an +1.

I like this idea. Will have to start getting everyone to keep a count and competing with one another. ;D

[Blizz3112]

Let us await the Emergency Code: Kill Traitor... Where one guy needs to run away from the others, while they attempt to kill him... :D

American net regions should have 300% more chance of that happening... (jk)

[jOhMG]

They should just make it an option when you create a room to have friendly fire on or off to add a little fun. All the players would be there out of choice anyway.

Or specific "Fields" that PVP would take place in. They can even make it a multi-party area with groups of 4. They wouldn't ever be required to actually do.

It doesn't have to be that great even really. Just having the option would be a nice little touch and help pass the time when I don't quite feel like focusing on the actual game.

[Omisan]

Yall dont need battle mode, you need a level cap that takes years to reach. Battle mode is just something else you will get bored of immediately.

[Scotty T]

You do realise how dumb PvP would be.

[FenixStryk]

You do realise how dumb PvP would be.It would be extremely dumb. Every time this comes up, all that comes to mind is how god-awful the match-ups would be. The only thing that would stop Rafoie from dominating the entire PvP arena is the fact that you can "only" use it ~8 times off of a single PP bar. Meanwhile, rifles have the same hitscan properties without PP limitations (albeit with a shorter range than Rafoie), and Hunters are pretty much guaranteed a kill if they can close the range (which is only fair considering they would be so easy to body before they closed the gap in the first place).

The only way to balance PvP for this game would be to gut every class and restrict them all to specific levels, builds and PAs/Techs with modified characteristics, and even then... ugh. Thinking about this is an easy way to get a headache.

It might happen, but it really shouldn't.

[Ark22]

You guys are thinking way to hard. All you have to do is have fun. no leaderboards, no rewards, just run around hit each other WITH FRIGGEN STICKS AND FIREBALLS and have fun. Don't be a negatron now.

[Zyrusticae]

Oh, I'm an Optimist Prime. Optimistic that SEGA is going to do the sensible thing and not put in something so half-assed! :nerd:

[FenixStryk]

You guys are thinking way too hard. All you have to do is have fun....fun? Never heard of it. :etongue:

In the meantime, there's nothing stopping you from returning the favor, or simply -- you know ...dodging them. It's no Panther. :wacko:

P.S. The next time you're on an emergency mission, ask someone to show you their car.

[Ueno54]

You guys are thinking way to hard. All you have to do is have fun. no leaderboards, no rewards, just run around hit each other WITH FRIGGEN STICKS AND FIREBALLS and have fun. Don't be a negatron now.

Starts out fun until the community gets all huffy and starts to min/max the pvp built for fun.

[gigawuts]

What, are you saying there is no latency? Time to drop dissociatives ^^;

Unless you have considerably worse internet than me, there is essentially no latency to speak of. With the amount of stuff that's handled client-side latency is a non-issue anyway, you should really be concerned about people using the preexisting CE cheats in PVP.

Think teleporting players, rapid fire launchers, and speed hacks are bad now? Herp.

That said, some games are just not built for PVP. PSO2 is one of them. Challenge mode, yeah sure, that can be made into PVP. This is not a game where full blown player versus player, as in with hitting eachother with things such as swords and bullets, will work. It's far too imbalanced. Forces and rangers will win everything by looking at an enemy (and in the case of forces, proceeding to hide behind cover to spam those teleporting techs like rafoie and zonde). It just wouldn't work unless the burst damage classes were nerfed so horribly so as to make them unable to kill things quickly oh but that's their entire point of existing so they'd be even worse and then hunters would rule instead which resolves nothing at all.

[MelancholyWitch]

Fortunately for us that decision is up to Sega and not you, which they've already said they would implement some form of PvP if it went to Korea and after which they mentioned already how if something gets implemented over seas that more and likely it would be implemented on all regions. Basically it's not a matter of if really it's a matter of when/how.

[gigawuts]

Exactly. It's a matter of how. Full on actual direct combat simply will not work with the PVE system. They could easily do something besides your typical direct combat system, but in no way will anything resembling the current class system approach balanced in a standard direct PVP system.

[MelancholyWitch]

well saying Hunters would be underpowered is a bit too unrealistic atm, you're forgetting all those abilities that rarely get used, like the stun from sword, and wired lance those aren't exactly that great in PVE but in PvP...

[Angelo]

At this point I really think it is a matter of how and when.

I really hope they take a page out of PSPo2 and add objective based PvP instead of just mindless killing.

I had a lot of fun with it.

[gigawuts]

What good do any of those do against weak bullet + one point, again?

You are VASTLY underestimating the strength of not only range, but unlimited spam.

edit: Objective based would be fine, as long as there's never any brawling to be done. Either forces and rangers are nerfed to be useless, or classes are left as they are and hunters are useless. A kind of challenge/battle mode hybrid would be brilliant.

[Angelo]

What good do any of those do against weak bullet + one point, again?

You are VASTLY underestimating the strength of not only range, but unlimited spam.

edit: Objective based would be fine, as long as there's never any brawling to be done. Either forces and rangers are nerfed to be useless, or classes are left as they are and hunters are useless. A kind of challenge/battle mode hybrid would be brilliant.

in PsPo2 'brawling' is the main way to gain points, but not the only way.

I think things like block and dodge would nullify weak bullet.

[jooozek]

Unless you have considerably worse internet than me, there is essentially no latency to speak of. With the amount of stuff that's handled client-side latency is a non-issue anyway, you should really be concerned about people using the preexisting CE cheats in PVP.
Wow, I thought you were joking but you are for real - how are you supposed to have PvP clientside? :-D

[MelancholyWitch]

unlimited spam? you get 3 one points because of stacked weak bullets you can't regen your pp, and one points can miss very easily, just because you've seen us do very high damage doesn't mean that will happen in PvP it could easily be dodged.

I agree with Angelo they should have some organization this is probably speculating too much but maybe PSPo2 PvP was an experiment to see how effective PvP would be in PSO2 it'd probably go really well and they can release updates every so often increasing maps and different game variations.

[gigawuts]

Isn't weak bullet supposed to be instantaneous? I know a lot of ranger PA's have travel times and could be guarded against, but I read that weak bullet is applied immediately when you click. A lot of techs are also impossible to guard due to the direction they come from, e.g. rafoie is at the exact center of the target, grants is from the top, etc.

I'm thinking if they add alternate routes for hunters to sneak by, or give a lot of weapons PA's with good mobility that breaks lock (Like rodeo drive that breaks target lock), and then possibly an innate resistance to debuffs, it could work if forces and rangers were no longer capable of the absurdly high burst damage they currently are. Seriously, 9999 damage ranger shots might be situational, but even counting for good defense you wouldn't need even 3k against mobs to be able to one shot even the best armored hunter. Do remember that guard stance only benefits S-Def as well.

And PVP client side works quite easily. You have it so the defending player is able to block or evade an attack that, due to pings, would have been literally unavoidable. You know, exactly the way it works with PVE right now. I believe it's a method that's been tested in Dark Souls to great effect. You can make an attack on an enemy and see it connect, but that same player has an opportunity to see it and act accordingly. Then what really matters is skill and reaction time. Otherwise you'll have literally nothing but players disconnecting their routers during attacks, then reconnecting as soon as the attack connects. You know, like what happens in the depressing majority of xbox live games.

edit: Unlimited spam, such as what you can do with your M1 button. You don't need to be dealing good damage, so long as you're dealing some and taking none you will invariably win. Range damage unfortunately almost always wins against close range high damage.

[jooozek]

And PVP client side works quite easily. You have it so the defending player is able to block or evade an attack that, due to pings, would have been literally unavoidable. You know, exactly the way it works with PVE right now. I believe it's a method that's been tested in Dark Souls to great effect. You can make an attack on an enemy and see it connect, but that same player has an opportunity to see it and act accordingly. Otherwise you'll have literally nothing but players disconnecting their routers during attacks, then reconnecting as soon as the attack connects. You know, like what happens in the depressing majority of xbox live games.
Dark Souls has client side pvp? Thats new to me, especially considering there is plenty of people complaining about lag

(https://www.google.pl/search?num=40&hl=en&q=dark+souls+pvp+lag&oq=dark+souls+pvp+lag&gs_l=serp.3..0l2j0i8l2.71406.72036.0.72180.3.2.1.0 .0.0.107.204.1j1.2.0...0.0...1c.Jku0r_FdUIA)

[gigawuts]

I wouldn't know, I'm sorry to admit almost all of my Dark Souls gameplay has been offline. For whatever bizarre reason, router issues or whatever, my Xbox hasn't been able to maintain a connection for more than 15 minutes for the last 2 years. Dropping connection in Dark Souls interrupts sessions and kicks you back to the main screen.

What little experience I HAVE had resulted in a level 300 player teleporting behind me and backstabbing me for a one hit kill - three consecutive times - until I said fuck it and took off the forest ring.

Xbox live, what're you gonna do.

edit: I've just inferred from videos of people evading with considerable delays on the attacker's screen, being able to evade attacks despite what appears to be bad lag, and a couple people I know who play the game online.

[Ce'Nedra]

*only reads first page*

I don't get it why Korea can influcence JP games to make a PvP mode that badly. Why listen to them and not to the rest of the world...

[MelancholyWitch]

because MMO's are more popular in Korea than anywhere else...?

[Ce'Nedra]

Might be so but i still find it weird to add that just for 1 country.

[tenkiame]

You guys are thinking way to hard. All you have to do is have fun. no leaderboards, no rewards, just run around hit each other WITH FRIGGEN STICKS AND FIREBALLS and have fun. Don't be a negatron now.

Exactly. I really don't get why when someone dares to mention they want PvP in this game everyone freaks out like the sky is falling.

I was addicted to battle mode in PSO1 more than any other part of that game. Sometimes it's just more engaging to me to fight against human players than enemy AI. I'm not a mindless bloodthirsty barbarian who can't get along with people and wants to destroy all cooperative play because I like PvP and want it in the game. It just feels to me like some people are implying that when they run around in a panic like headless chickens at the mere mention of PvP. I want to point out that it didn't suddenly ruin PSO1 when they added in battle mode as far as I know (I only played up through version 2 though) O_O I mean, some people played it and some didn't. The main part of the game continued on as normal. Simple as that.

I didn't care about winning or losing. It was just good old-fashion FUN for the sake of having FUN together. Just running around the map and seeing who could out-do who in the time limit. Yes, I battled against many people who were super fixated on winning, took it too seriously, gloated when they won and had a bad attitude when they lost, but it never bothered me - you'll find those sorts of people everywhere and I don't take it personally or feel insulted because of it. Most of the people I regularly battled with were good-humored.

If some people aren't into PvP, then really they don't even have to play that mode - it's not like suddenly everyone will be forced to play PvP and SEGA will stop making PvE content. Even if you think it won't work for this game (technically or in terms of balance) and turn out badly, that doesn't really bother me either. It can't and won't be perfect and no one should expect it to be; it's just a fun, harmless extra. Considering the huge upgrade in battle mechanics, graphics and the ability to jump/dodge/block (and even use that card weapon to "throw"/aim spells from a distance for forces now) compared to PSO1, I can't imagine it could possibly be WORSE and lots of people enjoyed it back then despite the comparitive simplicity.

My favorite part was how PSO1 had some rules that made everyone start at lvl 1 with no gear and level up as they killed other players, and you just had to make use of whatever weapons and disks you could find on the map. It made you have to get creative and work with what you could find, or loot off other players (although I guess you don't drop your weapon now when you die...). There was also one where you just had to collect the most meseta before the timer counted down (although it always turned into a battle of where the best hiding spot was for your meseta stash so you could pick it up at the last 2 seconds and win lol). On free-for-all rules, sometimes I'd make a temporary alliance with another player to take out someone else who was really tough and then we'd turn on each other lol. Stuff like that made it more fun and varied to me than having PvE as the only option.

Anyone else remember setting "lag bombs" on top of warps? =)

[MelancholyWitch]

That's right there's so many ways to implement PvP and not have it be forced onto the players. I made quite a larger thread about this a while back and there were many haters of PvP coming up with the most unreasonable arguements I doubt any balance changes would be needed that affect PvE the way combat is designed there are many ways for each class to go about fighting another at this point in the game you would need player skills not a certain type of class or build. Team fights would be amazing the need for support forces would increase and skills that disable would be useful.

[gigawuts]

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not hating on PVP. I'm an advocate of PVP...given properly balanced mechanics. I'm not a hater of PVE either, but I don't want to see it shoehorned into largely PVP games where it won't really fit.

PSO2 just does not stand out in that way to me. PSO didn't either. If they change the mechanics for PVP they'll have to do so in such a way that classes lose what makes them distinct right now - which is not entirely bad. In fact, it's great. Two games in one, with unique mechanics in each. That said, I can't imagine them doing it that way. Instead what we'll get is either a kind of PVP where players never face off, hunters getting some serious boosts to their skill tree, or hilarious imbalance.

Then again, I keep mentioning that rangers and forces are the burst damage classes. The flip side of that is hunters are the long duration sustained damage class. If the objective is something like code destruction on an enemy's flag/base/whatever, that would work if tuned properly. Still, hunters would need something else going for them besides more paper dps, since rangers will be more versatile and able to apply damage at longer range, adding up to more total damage dealt as well as less damage taken.

Honestly, I can't imagine any scenario where sticking with 4 rangers/forces and focus firing will in any way be outperformed by 3 rangers/forces and 1 hunter. At all. This is important, since there's only 3 classes you can't simply shaft one in favor of the others.

Oh, and, yes, putting work into the PVP portion of the game does indeed remove manpower from the PVE portion of the game. More PVP means less PVE - they only have so many people.

There is literally nothing a hunter would be able to do against a smart and skilled ranger unless the hunter can either teleport or gets a skill that blocks the various upwards-launching attacks rangers have. Want to see something funny? Knock something airborne and keep it up there with a gun. Now imagine that's a hunter that's been running at you for 2 straight minutes, trying to sonic arrow you to no avail as you either strafe or roll out of the way. Oh, he broke out his gunslash? That's adorable.

The last thing I want is a poorly thought out and implemented system sucking down resources and making the entire game look bad, attracting irritating F2P PVP players, and all around blowing chunks.

[Dabian]

Battle mode like the one in PSO was "fun" only for rangers/forces. And the way PSO2 mechanics are atm, PSO2 battle mode will also be fun for only rangers/forces. That's not PVP. PVP should be inclusive in nature, appealing, and overall, fun.

If it excludes a certain demographic within the game and only appeals to those who got the longer stick, that's imbalance. PVP fun can't be built around imbalance. PVE fun can. There's a difference. The AI cannot complain that we the players are OP. But players can, and will, seek some measure of balance because they too, like those with power/range on their side, also want to have "fun".

And yes fortunately it's not our decision. Because just tacking on a mode to let SOME people have fun and others not being able to despite wanting to because of imbalance, isn't a decision I hope Sakai and his team make lightly.

[tenkiame]

Battle mode like the one in PSO was "fun" only for rangers/forces. And the way PSO2 mechanics are atm, PSO2 battle mode will also be fun for only rangers/forces. That's not PVP. PVP should be inclusive in nature, appealing, and overall, fun.

If it excludes a certain demographic within the game and only appeals to those who got the longer stick, that's imbalance. PVP fun can't be built around imbalance. PVE fun can. There's a difference. The AI cannot complain that we the players are OP. But players can, and will, seek some measure of balance because they too, like those with power/range on their side, also want to have "fun".

And yes fortunately it's not our decision. Because just tacking on a mode to let SOME people have fun and others not being able to despite wanting to because of imbalance, isn't a decision I hope Sakai and his team make lightly.

I know you have your opinion and that's cool. I'm sure no one can convince anyone else to suddenly convert their opinion about this since everyone is very sure they're right. I'm sure there's truth meddled in on both sides. But I would just like to point out that I had an awesome time with PSO1-style battle mode and I only ever played a hunewearl (dabbled with a force for a while but wasn't too into it). Of course the thought of balance never came into my mind. I was just fighting 'cause it was fun to play battle mode. I happened to win a lot and had a decent battle record too (probably just due to the ridiculous number of battles I played), although that wasn't my goal. Likely because my definition of fun is just different than yours, so I don't find it ruining the fun if it happens to be imbalanced.

Also I guess I just have a different perspective because if I had to choose, it would bother me more to have imbalance in PvE gameplay if someone else is able to just dance through a horde of monsters while I struggle with it, not due to skill, but because of some game imbalance. Although if there really was an imbalance that I felt negatively affected me, I would just try to think of it as a nice challenge thrown at me and not worry about it too much.

I think it has to do with what each person finds important in the game individually because you seem to enjoy it in a different way. I am probably very forgiving with games and just tend to enjoy whatever I get. If you give me an option to set my mission to PvP I will take it as-is and have a blast. If you give me PSO1-style battle mode, I'll have even MORE of a blast. If you do both and then some brand new fangled PvP scenario, I'd be dazzled lol.

Someone who is more about having the best stats, armor, skill upgrades etc or just more focused on winning I can understand how that could impact their fun of the game because the portion of the game that they enjoy most could be affected if there is a race/class that has a super difficult time in PvP simply because they picked a certain race/class. =)

Although, personally, I don't see why they need to change anything with how the classes are just to add PvP. It seems like there should be plenty of creative ways to do it that would work out okay without changing anything (like the person that posted a couple posts above me said). I do not know these ways, but I have faith that they can come up with somethin'. =)

[Ark22]

This is still going?! Headache.

[gigawuts]

I know you have your opinion and that's cool. I'm sure no one can convince anyone else to suddenly convert their opinion about this since everyone is very sure they're right. I'm sure there's truth meddled in on both sides. But I would just like to point out that I had an awesome time with PSO1-style battle mode and I only ever played a hunewearl (dabbled with a force for a while but wasn't too into it). Of course the thought of balance never came into my mind. I was just fighting 'cause it was fun to play battle mode. I happened to win a lot and had a decent battle record too (probably just due to the ridiculous number of battles I played), although that wasn't my goal. Likely because my definition of fun is just different than yours, so I don't find it ruining the fun if it happens to be imbalanced.

Also I guess I just have a different perspective because if I had to choose, it would bother me more to have imbalance in PvE gameplay if someone else is able to just dance through a horde of monsters while I struggle with it, not due to skill, but because of some game imbalance. Although if there really was an imbalance that I felt negatively affected me, I would just try to think of it as a nice challenge thrown at me and not worry about it too much.

I think it has to do with what each person finds important in the game individually because you seem to enjoy it in a different way. I am probably very forgiving with games and just tend to enjoy whatever I get. If you give me an option to set my mission to PvP I will take it as-is and have a blast. If you give me PSO1-style battle mode, I'll have even MORE of a blast. If you do both and then some brand new fangled PvP scenario, I'd be dazzled lol.

Someone who is more about having the best stats, armor, skill upgrades etc or just more focused on winning I can understand how that could impact their fun of the game because the portion of the game that they enjoy most could be affected if there is a race/class that has a super difficult time in PvP simply because they picked a certain race/class. =)

Although, personally, I don't see why they need to change anything with how the classes are just to add PvP. It seems like there should be plenty of creative ways to do it that would work out okay without changing anything (like the person that posted a couple posts above me said). I do not know these ways, but I have faith that they can come up with somethin'. =)

So, putting all your presumptions aside...

It's totally cool to utterly devastate other human beings in a game because of poor game design and balance, but so help you god if it's a bunch of bots they're killing.

I have a feeling you might have just been too young to really realize the imbalances in battle mode.

[masoncoram]

I need to own some scrubnubs. I gotta play the GAIMZ!!! I'm still waiting for the ladder and the elo system to be implemented.

[MelancholyWitch]

I'm really tired of seeing this hunter will be unpowered nonsense, you don't know that you haven't had a chance to PvP in PSO2 yet, not all range classes dominate in MMO's if played right melee classes can fair quite well actually. Hunters currently have more stun/disable than any class right now, that is going to be huge in PvP, especially in team fights, grabbing a ranger and shocking them as they can't move while your team mate hunter beats him to a pulp, how exactly is that underpowered?

Also to say that it wont work because of balance? I can't believe people are still saying that, name me 1 MMO or RPG that had perfectly balanced PvP at launch or when implemented. I can see PSO2 being more balanced than anything seeing as it would take reaction time to dodge certain abilities and not stats.

[Retehi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcT4YpbDKgM

[Dabian]

You assume that pvp in PSO2 will be team-based. You have to consider the individual class performance as well.

As to your second point, it's true and I agree. PVP needs time to balance, and is probably not going to be balanced at launch.

There's going to be an effect on PVE mechanics one way or another. Because if you want balance, then unless they create 2 distinct separate mechanics groups, it's going to be an inter-dependent relationship.


Also, people say what they say because they have a point, or think they do, just as you think you have yours. What I'm saying, and you're welcome to disagree, is that it's not so simple. Unless you just tack on a battle mode with no post-support and call it a day.

[MelancholyWitch]

well good PvP designed has never been 1v1 in any game and besides in PSPo2 it was team based, which was their last PS installment. You can easily separate PvP damage and PvE damage, other games have done it before, and it's not really an opinion it's the truth you can't really ignore all the disables Hunters have, and hopefully they aren't stupid enough to make it only 1v1 PvP so not being able to move while using some of those stuns/disables wont matter... as I said PvP solely based on 1v1 fighting is awful and has always been in any game. They have also mentioned how much they love cooperative play and that they want everyone to be cooperative in this game... sooo individual class performance wont matter, it's how you help your team.

[Konflyk]

ITT: no one understands how the internet works

Thanks for the laughs guys.

PvP would be interesting only if it's battle mode, I don't need something interrupting me in the free area esp if I want to just rush.

Also isn't this the 3rd time we've had this thread?

[Ark22]

ITT: no one understands how the internet works

Thanks for the laughs guys.

PvP would be interesting only if it's battle mode, I don't need something interrupting me in the free area esp if I want to just rush.

Also isn't this the 3rd time we've had this thread?

See there would be an option for battle mode. I don't care if not a lot of people play it or choose it. But if we do have those 17 or 25 people that do play it, 12 MPA would be boss for battle.

And yeah this is like the 3rd thread that went from IT SHOULD BE FUN, to Whine whine pvp is horrible, whine whine stats and balance. Bitch, please. If I want to play a real pvp game I'll just go play Guild Wars 2 or League Of Legends, I just want a battle mode. Not the competition type style most of these guys are thinking of.

[gigawuts]

I'm really tired of seeing this hunter will be unpowered nonsense, you don't know that you haven't had a chance to PvP in PSO2 yet, not all range classes dominate in MMO's if played right melee classes can fair quite well actually. Hunters currently have more stun/disable than any class right now, that is going to be huge in PvP, especially in team fights, grabbing a ranger and shocking them as they can't move while your team mate hunter beats him to a pulp, how exactly is that underpowered?

Also to say that it wont work because of balance? I can't believe people are still saying that, name me 1 MMO or RPG that had perfectly balanced PvP at launch or when implemented. I can see PSO2 being more balanced than anything seeing as it would take reaction time to dodge certain abilities and not stats.

If the world ran on fallacies, you'd be the new green energy.

[Zyrusticae]

If the world ran on fallacies, you'd be the new green energy.
That's hilarious and awesome.

Also, if the world ran on fallacies, the energy crisis would clearly have been solved long ago... ^^;

[Coatl]

About latency lag, I often see people slashing or shooting away in some random direction, and seeing the monster flip and levitate all over the place. Eventually I figured out that the player was perhaps not in the location seen on my screen, but actually near the enemy.

Also, if PVP is included, rest assured there will be some gimmick included in order to balance it out. It's obvious rangers would dominate PVP otherwise, seeing as how they can flinch-lock you with launcher and make you take 800% more damage when weak-bulleted. Also, hunters would never see light in PVP.

[kkow]

About latency lag, I often see people slashing or shooting away in some random direction, and seeing the monster flip and levitate all over the place. Eventually I figured out that the player was perhaps not in the location seen on my screen, but actually near the enemy.


pretty sure its the same mechanic used in Monster hunter and PSP1/2/I where normal mobs location are client side and mini bosses+ are server. There is a lot of latency, most people just don't notice.

[Angelo]

Funny because before PvP in PSU everyone made the same arguments about RAs dominating everyone if PvP ever came to the series.

When PvP finally came it was completely dominated by Beast HUs.

Things that look good on paper don't always translate well in practice.

PSU (PsPo2's) PvP (like I've said a billion times) was more than just 'we kill eachother'. There were jumppads, capture points, enemy kills, and bases. The terrain was also a big factor.

[gigawuts]

That's what I'm saying. If they do it right with alternate paths and ideally a couple new mobility-based PA's (a grapple charge for each weapon, maybe) it could work, so long as weak bullet isn't left to be so ridiculously powerful.

If they just throw stuff out there that looks like the MPA's then we're doomed.

[Angelo]

That's what I'm saying. If they do it right with alternate paths and ideally a couple new mobility-based PA's (a grapple charge for each weapon, maybe) it could work, so long as weak bullet isn't left to be so ridiculously powerful.

If they just throw stuff out there that looks like the MPA's then we're doomed.

I do hope they do it right.

A good example was that some capture points were on very small islands that you had to use a jump pad to get to. If you sent a HU to that capture point and a RA tried to track them down they'd be forced to jump pad into melee range.

Also if a RA or FO had his hands busy trying to gain team points by taking down a monster spawn you could sneak up behind them while they're pre-occupied, get a kill point and then finish off the monster and get even more points.

Another example was if I (playing a HU) went to attack their base, I could just attack it and move myself around the perimeter and force a ranged class to get closer.

While the PSU version of PvP was very bare bones, I think if they put a good amount of thought and care into the tactics and utility of each class it could be awesome. Especially if they put in things like the skill tree skills and let them work out in PvP. In PSU the 'charm' effect forced you to lock on to the enemy or player that charmed you. In PSO2 charm is now 'hate' and using a skill like Warcry which generates hate in PvP could make things interesting.

[gigawuts]

Even if they nail the terrain perfectly, it doesn't resolve my main issue that hunters are too hit/miss. If the terrain is nothing but advantageous to hunters that will be exactly as bad as if it's all perfect for rangers.

If hunters can't get close, rangers will squash them. If they can, hunters will probably win. That's exactly as un-fun in the end, the only difference is the other class is winning.

And this doesn't address the fact that forces are both the burst damage class AND the healing class, so a bunch of health padded forces will be a force to reckon with (pun intended, I'm a funny guy).

I will admit though, the thought of double daggers getting a crit bonus on backstabs has my interest. I never thought I'd want to see a backstab damage bonus in a PS game, but I'm getting there.